“We Captured a 12 Foot Giant in Afghanistan!” -Tim Alberino

From a low-tempo, robust garden-girated, best-to-toll-em-out-toll-em-out-spel-soy.

“"By action, quality and the niedrish price have in hand."”

"And there are now all our products in our region and in the action app." "Exchenn, small price, big people." "And those beings came from somewhere. The human species was originally created, designed, intended to be a member of the divine family." "This is an archetypal meant that cuts across a lot of regions and cultures."

"It's universal." "So we have these watchers that came down their extraterrestrial. They made it with man they created nephew-leam." "And then we have evidence that a lot of this actually holds astronomical weight in the ancient world." "There are ruins of an ancient civilization on the planet Mars specifically in the region of Cydonia."

"And this what's so fascinating about this is that the ancients believed that the gods descended from Mars."

"We can understand the modern phenomenon and light in the book of Enoch." "Hearing about the book of Enoch and it sounds a lot like Prometheus where you have titans who try to give mankind sacred knowledge." "So these were very, very intelligent beings, probably in possession of what I would describe as advanced aerospace technology."

“"I myself have seen a UFO, read above my call."”

"And this thing just descended and just hovered there like I was supposed to see it." "That is some top secret." "Speaking of evidence of nephew-leam and this whole narrative." "You're one of the few people who has gone deep on this phenomenon of giants." "The story that has since become known as the Kandahar giant."

"This is where it begins. He was a cargo pilot." "And he would describe these missions as classified." "And one day he's flying in there."

"They said, "This never happened. No pictures. Don't ever talk about it."

"He sees a forklift, bringing over an air cargo pilot." "And there's something on it." "And he said the first thing that hit him was the odor, like bio and death." "The hair of this being was red." "The skin was pale."

“"He said it had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot."”

"And he said this thing was solid as a rock." "So you can imagine, let's say it was 12 feet tall." "The whole thing weighed 1100 pounds." "That's crazy." "Yeah."

"Yeah." "They're looking for the front side." "How is this possible?" "Nothing to worry." "The existence cannot belong to me in life."

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We're linking that in the description. Thank you so much to AG1 for sponsoring today's episode. I'm here with Timothy Alberina, and I could not be more excited to speak with you. I have been just going through all your stuff, all your podcasts, your book, your amazing book called Birthright,

which is really awesome because I think people in this space, it's always in anecdotal story.

That's really crazy and interesting. You have a lot of those anecdotal stories. I want to talk to you about the Peruvian face pillars. I want to talk to you about the giants of Candahar, all of these amazing things that you cover. You're this kind of modern, larger than life, adventure.

“But you also are, I think, really impressive, kind of philosopher and sense maker,”

and you do such a great job in this book, Birthright, which I recommend people get. In Reckon Siling, the whole kind of alien, you know, NHI phenomena, which is now kind of all the rage with kind of the modern disclosure movement, but with ancient traditions, and with the Bible and Plato, and in the book of Enoch, which is where I kind of want to start this conversation. So I appreciate what you're doing.

I think it's really cool. What does the book of Enoch hold in terms of relevance for our life and our world today? Enoch provides the foundation for Hebrew cosmology, as it pertains to the anti-deluvian world. So you cannot separate what I call the Enochian narrative or the Enochic tradition. You cannot separate that out from the biblical narrative.

It is fundamental to how the Hebrew's ancient Hebrew's view, the anti-deluvian world, the world before the flood. And not only is it the ancient Hebrewic view, it's the view of our antecedents across the board. The ancient Egyptians, the Mesopotamians, the Greeks, the Romans, they all viewed the anti-deluvian world in a particular way. Namely, that it was a time of great learning. It's a time when the fundamentals of civilization were imparted to mankind from extraterrestrial entities.

And in the pagan world, and pagan just means everybody but the Hebrews, in the pagan world, this was known as the Golden Age, or Zephtephi to the ancient Egyptians. And it was a time when the gods co-mingled with mankind, literally, they procreated with human women. They pro-generated a race of hybrid demigods in the earth in many accounts of these demigods for giants, such as in the biblical account and the Mesopotamian account, the epic of Gilgamesh Gilgamesh himself as a giant. And so these traditions are ubiquitous across the earth.

And this is how civilization began in the minds of our antecedents. Again, whether it be the Hebrew account, the Judeo-Christian account, or the pagan accounts. Now, among the Jews, there was no greater profit and scribe.

“And these are important terms, profit and scribe than Enoch.”

Enoch was the greatest pre-flood patriarch. He was revered above all others. And the Bible says very little about Enoch. It says that he walked with God for 365 years and then God took him. And that's pretty much all the Bible says of Enoch.

And there's a couple of references in the New Testament.

But it always was strange to me, as I was a teenager thinking and reading the scant information,

provided in the biblical text concerning Enoch who clearly was the greatest pre-flood patriarch. The Bible has much to say about its other prophets and scribes. The Bible says a whole lot about Moses. It says a whole lot about Elijah. It says a whole lot about Noah.

It says almost nothing about Enoch.

I think I was 16 years old.

I just had gotten my driver's license and my father was a pastor. So I grew up in a very, very good home. I had a very, very good upbringing. My dad was an excellent father and pastor. And I had a wonderful mother.

My mother died when I was 14.

“But I remember, when I was 16 years old, I drove to borders.”

That's the one that went out of business, right? Borders.

I drove to a borders bookstore.

And I remember I was perusing the aisles just sort of wanted to buy a book. And I was particularly interested in the pseudopographa. And I pulled this pseudopograph off the shelf. This is big ancient looking book that they had there in Borders. And I was most interested in the book of Enoch.

I had heard about the book of Enoch. And I didn't really know what it was. And so I remember pulling it off the shelf and sitting down on a bench in Borders and opening it up. And sort of skimming through the book of Enoch. I was instantly captivated.

And I bought it and I took it home. And that sort of began my fascination with the anti-deluvian world. Because what the book of Enoch does is it provides as I said earlier, it provides the foundation of Hebrew cosmology in regard to the anti-deluvian world.

“And I remember reading when I was a teenager reading the verses in Genesis 6,”

those enigmatic verses inscribed in Genesis 6 about the sons of God, who saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful. They came down and they took wives of all whom they chose. And they populated with these women. And pro-generated a race of giants in the earth called the Nephilim.

But that was it. Just a little footnote. It's a bizarre digression in the Genesis narrative. And this precedes the flood. The next chapter is the flood.

And then you get to the New Testament and you see Peter referencing the angels who sinned. And as a result, they're chained in the gloomy abyss, tartarists. Jude takes verbatim from the book of Enoch.

He copies and paced into his epistle a few verses straight out of, first Enoch.

And it's the same sort of, and the, it comes from the book of the watchers. And the book of the watchers in First Enoch is the story of the descent of these beings, of these heavenly beings, these celestial beings. And you realize when you read the book of Enoch that the reference in Genesis 6 is in a bridged version. It's, it's just a bridged, it's a, it's a cliffnote, basically.

Of a story that was clearly already well known by the audience. So the author of Genesis, when he, when he inserts into Genesis 6, again, this bizarre digression of the Genesis narrative about these heavenly beings, the sons of God who descend and co-mingle with the daughters of men and, and, and, and copulate with them. The reason he doesn't expand on that story is because it was already well known from oral tradition.

But I also think from written tradition, namely the book of Enoch, or some version of the book of Enoch. So the story was, was already so well known to the, to the audience that the writer of Genesis, whether it was Moses or someone else, didn't need to retrace the details of this story.

“So well known, it was so essential to the fabric of their cosmology. And, and indeed, the book of Enoch”

lays out this story. So what does it say? The book of Enoch says that, in the days of Jared, who was the sixth hermathom, Jared was the father of Enoch, that these heavenly beings, which the book of Enoch denominates as watchers, and the watcher denomination is not exclusive to extribiblical texts. It's in the Bible. It's in the book of Daniel. That these, these beings called the watchers 200 of them,

decided that they were going to descend to the earth, or maybe they were already on the earth, but that they were going to, they wanted to take wives from the daughters of men. They wanted to wed the maidens, these, these, the daughters of Adam, because they were beautiful. And they wanted to procreate with them. And, and they wanted to, to, to, to essentially, to make families, to sire off spring. And these watchers knew, these 200 watchers knew that this was a grave

according to the book of Enoch, they descended on the summit of Mount Hermann.

And they bound themselves by an oath of mutual implications. In other words, we're all in this together, and we're all going to suffer the consequences,

“whatever before. So they bind themselves with an oath, and that's why, to this day,”

Mount Hermann is known as the mountain of oath. And so after binding themselves by oath of mutual implications, they descend into the plains, they choose for themselves wives. And then they make a transaction. I believe with the, with the fathers of these maidens, a dowry of sorts is paid. They, they provide, the, the, the, the fathers provide their daughters hand in marriage,

the maidens. And the watchers in turn is a dowry. Remember, this is a very patriarchal society in the pre-flood world. The fathers give their daughters hand away. It's not like today where, you know, it's mutual agreement, let's get married. In, in, in the, in the anti-deliving world, and even in the ancient post-deliving world. And still is the case in some parts of the earth. The father gives the daughters hand in marriage and exchange for something.

A dowry. And so that watches receive the daughters hands in marriage from the fathers. And they in turn gave the father's information, knowledge, forbidden knowledge. Book of Enoch says they gave them the knowledge that they were, that the men were striving to learn.

“And this, I think this was technological knowledge.”

Scientists, what we would call today, scientific knowledge. And then the watchers just as it says in Genesis 6, they, they calculate with their wives, who conceive and give birth to a race of giants, called the Nephilim. And then what results is men are corrupted by the forbidden knowledge of the watchers.

The giants grow to a enormous size and ultimately begin to consume all of the acquisitions of the land.

So that men can no longer sustain their appetite. So human beings were basically subjugated to these, to this hybrid race of giants. And they were spending all of their time in energy feeding them. And when they could no longer satisfy their enormous appetite, the giants began to devour mankind. And it's at this point that men begin to cry out to God.

And the court of heaven hears the appeal of mankind. And God dispatches some angels to the earth. He causes the, he binds the watchers. But by the way, I should say, this is, nobody knows the duration of time. From when the watchers descended the days of Jared to the, to the flood of Noah.

At the very least, you're looking at hundreds of years, if not thousands of years of this going on on planet earth. And then, so the watchers are dispatched, I mean, the angels are dispatched to the earth. They bind the watchers. But before the watchers are incarcerated in the abyss, they're forced to watch the destruction of the, of their beloved sons of the giants, who are enticed, who are incited to war with one another.

So you have this fraught recital war that takes place among the giants. And I describe this as the empire of the gods, because it's not like, you know, big dumb dis giants from Disney movies. And we're growing up, you know, bashing each other over the head with clubs. These were exceptionally intelligent beings. Their fathers, the book of Enoch says taught them and their wives.

They instructed them in, in their knowledge. So these, they were receiving the instruction of their fathers. So these were very, very intelligent beings, probably in possession of what I would describe as advanced technology, maybe even advanced aerospace technology, which I do believe existed in the anti-delubine world.

“I think that's how the watchers got to the summit of Mount Hermann, by the way,”

at the Helmms, at the Helms of advanced aerospace vehicles, what we would describe today as UFOs. And so to close out the story, the watchers, rather the giants, go to war with each other. I believe this is a technological war. And then the flood ensues, the great flood. And the flood was intended to cleanse the earth of the abominable seed of the watchers.

And to reset mankind.

So that's it encapsulation, summarization of what the first section of the book of watchers describes,

the rather the book of Enoch called the book of watchers. It's a great summary. If I were a biblical scholar, would I have any points around the book of Enoch to say that it's, oh, it's just apocryphal and it's not connected to the Bible. And what would you say to those points?

There's no doubt about that.

“I mean, the story is referenced indirectly in the Old Testament, obviously, Genesis 6 and in other portions.”

But also in the New Testament. In fact, when you get to the New Testament, you find Jesus of Nazareth using a title, a very specific title. The title he preferred. More than any other. It's a Messianic title, but it doesn't come from the Old Testament.

It comes exclusively from the Book of Enoch. And that title is the Son of Man. Now, there are several titles that Jesus could have employed when referencing himself, Messianic titles. And he did use various titles, the Son of God, for example, what she was. But he uses the Son of Man, the most.

And there is no reference. That is a proper title, the Son of Man. So the only reference in the Old Testament that scholars will go to is a reference in the book of Daniel. Where Daniel sees one like a Son of Man. But that is a descriptor.

That is saying, like I saw, I saw one who looked like a human being. Like an offspring of Adam. It's not a proper title.

The proper title, the Son of Man, comes from First Enoch, specifically from the second section of First Enoch, which is called The Parables.

And the parables are the Oracles of Enoch. And the Oracles of Enoch pertain primarily to the Son of Man. And we're fulfilled, clearly fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth. Now, there is some dispute in regard to when the parables were authored or compiled. The Book of Enoch, First of all, the Book of Enoch is a compilation of texts with several authors.

And the various sections of Enoch were probably written at different times, different pairs of time. The oldest section, namely the Book of the Watchers, containing the Enochian tale of the Watchers. That was written at least circa 300 BC. But I think that the oral tradition at least is way older. I think it's began with Enoch.

And in fact, the Hebrews believed that Enoch was the inventor of writing.

That he was the first to write. And remember, Enoch was revered as a prophet and a scribe.

So he prophesied and he wrote. And the tradition says that those writings were delivered ultimately to Noah and preserved through the flood. So is it possible that portions of First Enoch actually originate thousands of years ago? Maybe the very first writing ever conceived by the human species was written by the hand of Enoch.

“And that's why people, the contention here, is mostly from the secular world that the Bible is all of the stories in the Bible are just copies of the more ancient Mesopotamian texts.”

Well, sure, but what if the foundation for those stories goes all the way back to Enoch? Then everybody's copying Enoch. Then everybody has a version of what Enoch wrote. And it's very possible in my mind that the Hebrews have the most faithful rendition of what was of the oral traditions and of the fact of the written compositions that came from the anti-dolubian world, which far predate the ancient Mesopotamians.

And Enoch was related to Noah, is that right? Yes. I believe Enoch was his great, great grandfather. Enoch was the father of Methuselah, who was the father of Lamek, who was the father of Noah. Interesting. And yet in the Old Testament, you have them, Methuselah a lot of these guys, lived for very long periods of time. That's right.

I think he caused you to ask all sorts of things. Nine hundred clashes. That's right.

“How is it found? How is the book of Enoch discovered?”

The book of Enoch was preserved by the Ethiopians. And had the Ethiopians not preserved the book of Enoch. We would not have it to this day. Because it was clearly expunged from the scriptoriums of the Middle East and the West. There was controversy, a lot of controversy, and the early church age over the book of Enoch.

Some of the early church fathers wanted to incorporate it into the canon. So there was a debate and I'm going to debate.

What cannot be denied is that the book of Enoch was, is that the early church was conversant with what we call first Enoch today.

Now, there is clearly a different manuscript in circulation because some of the early church fathers cite the book of Enoch.

Interesting.

“And what we call first Enoch, but then they also cite portions which we do.”

So some of these early church fathers were referenced the book of Enoch as scripture. In fact, in the fourth, around the fourth century AD, the Talahado Orthodox Christians. And the better Israel Jew, Jewish community, in Ethiopia, incorporated the book of Enoch into their canon. That's why they preserved it. So to this day, if you visit Ethiopia and you visit a synagogue or you visit an Orthodox church,

among the scriptures that we have in our canon in the West, you'll find the book of Enoch and some other apocryphal works as well. They revered the book of Enoch and so they preserved it.

So, but as I said, the early church was undoubtedly, undoubtedly, conversant with portions of what we call today first Enoch.

“And what I was going to say before was you have the book of Enoch attested in the old and New Testament.”

And when you read the parables, the Oracles of Enoch, which are primarily prophecies pertaining to the Messiah, to the Christ. Again, fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth. Clearly, you realize that the writers of the New Testament derived much of their eschatology and Christology. Their theology regarding the Messiah directly from the Oracles of Enoch. And in fact, there are citations throughout the New Testament that are not found in the Old Testament.

References, indirect references that are only to be found in the book of Enoch. So, scholars will say, you know, it's divided, the scholarly community. There's lots of different different opinions there in regard to the book of Enoch, they all will concede that the earliest portions of Enoch were compiled around 300 BC. Some scholars will say that the parables, again containing those Messianic prophecies, were compiled some time around 100 AD.

There's a lot of debate about that. But because precisely because it's apparent that the authors of the New Testament are deriving so much of the theology from the parables of Enoch. And so it's hard for some scholars to believe that these prophecies which are so astonishingly accurate fulfilled, clearly fulfilled as I keep saying in Jesus of Nazareth, that those could have been written before the advent of Christ. I believe they were.

I believe that the Oracles of Enoch are ancient, that first Enoch, that the earliest portions of first Enoch,

namely the book of the Watchers, and the Oracles of Enoch were written by his hand. That's an or some version of them, you know, carried through the flood in the form of oral tradition at the very least, and then someone later compiled them. Is there some sort of control mandate or something? If you think of the Council of NIC and creating the modern canon?

“Yeah, I think so. Is there a reason to specifically get rid of the book of Enoch because it's sort of subversive or a reference in some way?”

Yes, because the prevailing view became especially because of Augustine, or Augustine, I was forgot to pronounce his name as the saint. Because he was a proponent, he was a proponent of what's called the non-supernatural view of Genesis 6, is that the sons of God were the angels of heaven. Clearly, this is the case because in the Septuagint, which is a Greek translation of the Old Testament,

which was in circulation during the time of Christ, and certainly during the early church, this was the manuscript that the non-Jewish converts were reading was the Septuagint of the Old Testament, so it's a translation of the Tenak, he reloaded Testament into Greek. And in the Septuagint, when you read Genesis 6, it doesn't say the sons of God, it says the angels of God. So that's definitive. These are not human beings, these are celestial beings,

and this was the prevailing view until probably the second century AD,

when the Jews, the Jewish community, they preferred the non-supernatural reading,

that copulated with the daughters of Adam, that these were noble men from the line of Seth,

“and the Sethites, it's what they call, it's called the Sethite theory,”

and these were not heavenly beings, these were just men, and the church adopted that position. They followed suit, and they adopted that position, primarily because of St. Augustine. And so that became the prevailing view, and it is the prevailing view to this day, although the tides are turning, more and more people are realizing that that's preposterous, based on, by the way, the story of Enoch, the Enochian tale, is attested, not just an Enoch,

but in several Dead Sea scroll manuscripts, including the book of Giants, the book of Jubilee's, the Genesis Apocryphan, and others, all of these, and there's no question that the supernatural view of Genesis 6

was the prevailing view during the second temple period, no question whatsoever.

And then you combine that with the Zeppetepi, with the Greek gods, precisely like all of these other myths across disparate cultures, all involving sort of demigods, like little gee gods, and then some sort of flood, and it's like, "Okay, this maybe we should stop treating this just as myth and start treating it as history, Plato, and so on, and it's just a ubiquitous."

The difference is, this is kind of what makes the Hebrew account unique. The difference is, those other cultures, they viewed the anti-deluvian world through a lot of, a lot of Tory prism. In other words, they viewed it as this wonderful time of peace and prosperity, of the sharing of knowledge from the gods to mankind.

If the gods, as I said earlier, were establishing the foundations of civilization, of learning of science, were imparting them to mankind, and that the world that existed in the anti-deluvian world was, in every way, vastly superior to their own civilizations, to their post flood, post cataclysmic civilizations, that when they look back into the past, this is antithetical to the way we look back into the past.

So when we, as modernism, we look back into the past.

“We see this, you know, the timeline of history, right?”

We are, in our minds, we're the pinnacle of civilization right now. We're the pinnacle of learning, scientific learning, where the smartest human beings ever to exist on planet Earth, everybody that preceded us was inferior to us intellectually speaking, and there's this gradual retrograde of civilization,

as you go backwards on the timeline of history. So you start from superior modern man, and then you, you progress backward through history, and people are getting dumber and dumber and dumber, until you get into the neolithic and you've got cavemen, right?

You've got these, these neolithic dummies, basically, you know,

one step removed from chimpanzees. That's not how the ancients viewed the past. Quite the opposite. The way that our antecedents viewed the anti-deluvian world was that they were like children, trying to recover some vestige

of the knowledge, of the glory, of the magnificence, of their antecedents, that existed in the world before the cataclysm. They, when they went backward in time, it wasn't a gradual decrease in the knowledge and sophistication of civilization, but rather the civilizations that preceded them in the anti-deluvian world

were vastly superior to them.

Speaking of which, you said something amazing earlier,

you said you think that that time period, those sort of demigod creatures used advanced aerospace vehicles,

“you know, I think of the Vemana, this is kind of the proverbial example of this.”

Is there any other evidence that they actually had kind of technological, you know, aerial vehicles? Obviously we have to go to texts. You have to go to texts, yeah. So I don't know of any archaeological evidence.

Sure. Of course, you have anecdotal accounts, like Bob Zarr. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, who said that, you know, among the craft that he saw in the hangers at the, as for facility, he was told that one of them had been retrieved from an

archaeological site. That's right. It was very ancient. Not the one he worked on, not the sports model, but a different one had been allegedly.

And he didn't know if this was true or not, but allegedly it had been recovered from an ancient burial site in archaeological dig.

You know, when you look back into the, again,

“this is a period of time that the ancient described as the golden age.”

And what I was illustrating earlier was that, in the mind of the pagan cultures, this was the pinnacle of mankind, of civilization, and it was a time of peace and prosperity. But from the hebraic perception, it was, this was a dystopian nightmare. This was a time of great oppression, the empire of the gods.

When, essentially, the watchers were governing the earth by proxy behind the thrones of their hybrid giant offspring who were devouring mankind, who were pressing mankind. It was a time of unparalleled bloodshed and sorcery and all manner of transgression against the king of heaven. That's the difference.

So from the pagan worldview, these were, the gods were like our promethian benefactors. They stole fire from the gods and gave it to mankind. But from the hebraic perspective, these watchers were evil. They were, these were malevolent beings, and their intention was to deceive mankind. And that mankind was corrupted by the knowledge that was given to them,

the forbidden secrets of the book of Vinak has it. And that all of this activity led to the flood, to the destruction of the world. So that's, that's a very different view of the antidoluvian age from the hebraic perspective. Do you think this book is not just this kind of, you know, past thing about, you know, kind of metaphysics, pre, you know, flood?

And do you think it holds relevance today? Where are the watchers today? Yes, it does.

So, to the first question, according to the book of Vinak and the Bible and the New Testament,

according to Peter, according to Jude, the watchers are currently chained up in Peter calls it tartarous, bebisc in the gloomy darkness. And this is directly from the book of Vinak.

“So, when the angels were dispatched to bind the watchers, remember the watchers were first forced”

to watch the destruction of the beloved sons in this fratricidal civil war, which, again, I think was technological. And then they were, they were imprisoned, they were incarcerated. And they're still incarcerated to this day. And according to the book of Vinak, they're going to be incarcerated until the end of the

age, when the age is fully consummated. That's what the book of Vinak says. And until the day of judgment. So, until the very end, now there's some of, um, biblical commentators, some colleagues of mine, who believe that the watchers are going to be

released at the end of the age. And that they're going to create a lot of havoc that you see unfolding in the earth and the book of Revelation. I don't know, I personally think that the book of Vinak is pretty explicit, that the watchers

“are going to be chained until the day of judgment, which would mean all the way to the very end”

when the, when the great judge returns to the earth. By the way, I should probably, um, this is a little bit of a digression, but here's another illustration, um, another attestation of the book of Vinak in the New Testament. And Jesus was in, in the land of Godara, with his disciples, and, and he was approached by a man that, that a man who, the Bible describes or, or a two-man, depending on which gospel you're reading,

uh, who's, who's described as the gathering demonic, because he was full of a legion of demons. You were called this story. So Jesus disembarks on the shore of Godara, this demon possessed man, who has a legion of demons inside of him, comes running up to Jesus and throws himself at his feet. And he declares, "We know who you are, you son of God."

And then he says, "Why have you come to torment us before the appointed time?"

And then always puzzled me when I was, you know, growing up, the teenager, reading that.

What do you mean before the appointed time? What does that mean? They recognize that Jesus was that son of man, from the oracles of Enoch and son of God. And that there was an appointed time of judgment for them. So why were they freaking out?

Because they recognized two things. They recognized that Jesus was the great judge. He was the judge. He was going to judge them at the appointed time. And the second thing they recognized was, it wasn't time yet.

But here's the judge. What are you doing here? It's not time yet. You're early. Now, what does that come from?

It doesn't come from the Old Testament. It comes from the Book of Enoch. Because when the, when the Giants destroy themselves in this fratricidal war,

Because they're not fully of their, of their celestial fathers, the watchers,

“and they're not fully of their human mothers.”

So they're, they're unsenctioned sentient beings. And so they're cursed. When they die and they're spirits apart from their bodies, their spirits are now going to be forced to wander the earth as disembodied vagabond rates.

But the curse is this. They're going to have all of the desires of the flesh. They're going to be hungry, thirsty, presumably, have all of the sexual impulses of the flesh. But without corporeal bodies through which to satiate these desires,

to satisfy them. That's the curse. And you'll probably recall that this was the Mayan curse in the curse of the Mayan gold in Pirates of the Caribbean. Remember?

Yeah. That's the Nephilimic curse in the Pirates of the Caribbean. Barbosa and his crew were,

they were deathless, basically.

They couldn't die. But neither could they enjoy anything while they were alive, perpetually. And remember Barbosa wanted to bite into the apple. And it was revealed.

“I forget in the story when I think on a full moon or whatever,”

that they were like these rathes. And they couldn't enjoy anything. And so they desperately wanted to break the curse. That was the premise of the story. And that's exactly the situation of the spirits of dead giants.

And this is where you get the origin of demons in the New Testament. And in the Old Testament, demons, according to ancient Hebrew cosmology, are the disembodied spirits of dead giants that persist in the world. Really? Really.

That's like the definition. That's the definition. And in the book of Enoc, the judgment that comes against the giants is you will be called evil spirits in the earth or unclean spirits in the earth.

And you will wander the earth. You'll have all of the, you'll be hungry. You'll be thirsty but you won't be able to satisfy the desires of your flesh because you won't have any flesh. And so what are these beings do?

What are these disembodied spirits do? They seek to inhabit human flesh. They possess human beings in order to attempt to associate these desires. That's why they inhabit the body.

So fast forward to the New Testament. And you have Jesus of Nazareth encountering. And he's disciples encountering people who are demon possessed. And they recognize who he is. And he tells them to be quiet in a couple of occasions.

Because they say, "We know who you are, you son of God." Right? And so now fast forwarding to the gathering demoniac who's inhabited by a legion of demons. Oh, I actually skipped the most imperative point here.

Going back to the book of Enoc, part of the curse was, this was going to be your lot. This was going to be your curse to the spirits of the dead giants until the great judge appears to judge the living in the dead. Until the day of judgment.

And then they will be judged with finality and cast into the like a fire. And so the legion of demons recognizes that Jesus is the great judge. From the circles of Enoc. And as I said before, knows that the time is not yet come

for their final judgment. That comes directly from the book of Enoc. So it's just another illustration of how the themes, the inocic traditions and themes are woven through the old and New Testament.

That's a digression from what we're talking about. No, it's fascinating. And a burning question I have is you have this conversation around you a photo disclosure to alien beings or non-human intelligence. You have congresswoman Anna Polina Luna going on Joe Rogan

and saying, you know, read the book of Enoc. That somehow is important for this whole story. Like a marginal world in which if Enoc was left in the Bible and people were like, wait, what happened? Okay, so if you read it, it talks about the fall of angels.

Thus creating really the precursor of civilization that led to the first flood.

“I think that when you even go into potentially the technology”

that was given to mankind by these angels, it talks about the hidden beliefs and theories in astronomy, et cetera, metal workings, all of it. If you have this information pertaining to UAPs, whatever they might be, they might be the origins. I mean, if you have a understanding of what Enoc was talking about,

kind of makes sense. So what does this clearly, you know, not so apocryphal actually probably core text in the book of Enoc and the Nephi Leam and the Watchers, what does that have to do with modern kind of alien UFO disclosure?

Well, so generally speaking, what do you have in the book of Enoc and in Genesis 6?

And why do you think that?

Well, because they are by nature extraterrestrial. This is one of the things that I talked about in the book birthright.

“So I think the word extraterrestrials are very useful word.”

It's a very useful term. Because extraterrestrial simply means a being whose provenance is not planet Earth. So a being whose origin is not the Earth. That's an extraterrestrial. Of course, we're contextualizing this term within the context of sentient beings.

I'm not talking about a mebas here or something like that or bacteria. Although those would also be considered extraterrestrial bacteria.

Should we find bacteria on Mars?

Those would be defined as extraterrestrial bacteria, right? Because they're not from the Earth, even if they're very similar to bacteria on Earth. Well, extraterrestrial because they're not from the Earth. So it's a very accurate term, very useful term.

“Now, opponents of mine will say, "That's not a biblical term.”

I would like to highlight that neither is the term fallen angels of biblical term." And a lot of people think it is, it's not. You will not find fallen angels in the Bible. It doesn't exist. Now, the concept is biblical.

The concept of a quote unquote fallen angel is very biblical. These fallen angel are defected sons of God. They are apostate sons of God. They're angelic beings who defected from the kingdom and are in opposition to God. We all understand that.

That's what fallen angel means. So in the same way, the word extraterrestrial doesn't show up in the biblical text or extra biblical text. They didn't use that terminology back then. But the concept is accurate, is biblically accurate. In that, you have beings who are clearly not from planet Earth.

Whose provenance is not planet Earth and indeed whose origin is pre-existent to mankind. They pre-exist us. This is clear, especially in the book of Job, where we read that the morning stars, saying together, and the sons of God shouted for joy as the foundations of the earth for being laid. Or depending on how you view that as the earth was being renewed.

Previous to the creation of mankind. So here you have sentient extraterrestrial beings by definition. They're not on the earth. They're observing the creation or the reformation of the earth, depending on your theological worldview. And they are celebrating it.

They're shouting for joy. And the designation morning star and sons of God, morning stars and sons of God is very important. Because morning stars, the Bible uses the stars as a metaphor for angelic beings, for celestial beings. So a morning star, what that designates are beings who were created early on, who are pre-existent.

You know, they're the first beings to appear. In other words, the stars you see in the morning,

it's like those are the morning stars. These are the beings who appear at the beginning of creation, the first sentient beings.

“So I think they're very old and furthermore they're called sons of God.”

Which is very important because that's a family designation. These aren't just whatever sentient beings. These are sons of God. These are members of the family. This becomes very important in the biblical text.

And this is something that I articulate birthright is that Adam was created to be a son of God, using that same familial language. And that we, through Christ, become the sons of God according to Jesus of Nazareth, being, by the way, sons of the resurrection. So this is a family dynamic here. The Bible uses these familial terms because there's a family.

There's a divine family. And when you read the genealogy of Jesus of Nazareth, you know, traces Jesus through Joseph or through Mary, depending on which genealogy you're reading, back through David, back through Abraham, back into the pre-fled world through Enoch and all the way back to Adam. And when you get to Adam, it says, "Adam, the son of God." So what the Bible is signaling here is that Adam, the human species, was originally created, designed, intended to be a member of the divine family.

And so this ties into the gospel of Christ later on because you understand when Jesus shows up on the scene, we don't mind me digressing into a bit of theology here. When Jesus shows up on the scene, he makes it abundantly clear that his mission is to bring back the prodigal sons back into the family of God.

So in other words, that's really the message of the gospel that you were once members of this family, you were once members of the divine family in Adam.

“And that was the intention, mankind was in my estimation created for two purposes.”

There's number one to commune with the creator, with the maker, and with the other with his, with who I described in birth right is his elder siblings. These other sentient beings, the other sons of God, who pre-exist mankind, to fellowship in the family of God, that's a primary purpose. I can darely to govern the earth, to govern planet earth. These theological threads become very, very important when you get to the discussions that are currently happening in about extraterrestrials and how we ought to view that coming from a Christian perspective at least.

And so the whole point of the gospel is to return the sons and daughters back to the family of God illustrated by the way in the parable of the prodigal son. So you have these sons of God who pre-exist mankind, they're not clearly, they're not human, and they're not from planet earth. They are therefore by definition, extra terrestrial, the celestial beings, they're extraterrestrial. Now you can quibble over whether or not they come from a literal extraterrestrial world, like a different planet in the universe, or they come from some kind of a spiritual world,

a different, I guess, dimension, or you could just say they're interdimensional beings that come from a different dimension.

It doesn't matter which of these you choose, you're still talking about beings whose origin, whose provenance, is not planet earth. They are therefore unequivocally extraterrestrial. So these describes the beings who descended in the days of Jared, according to the book of Enoch in Genesis 6, these beings came from some extraterrestrial realm. Again, whether you think it's an interdimensional realm, like Anapollina Luna, whatever, it doesn't really matter. And this line's up, by the way, with Sumerian myths, you have the Ananaki, definitely lines up with Greek myths, where you have these titans, and they're the sons of God, and you know, I'm hearing about the book of Enoch, and it sounds a lot like Prometheus, by the way, where you have this sort of rebel faction of titans who try to give mankind's sacred knowledge,

“and in his case, I think he's chained up to a rock, and, you know, Vulture has to do it.”

Picks at his liver, like constantly. So this is an archetypal myth that cuts across a lot of regions and cultures. It's universal. It's universal, the universal testimony of our antecedents is that there was an age previous to a great flood or a great cataclysm in which the gods were dwelling on earth. Among men, and partying their knowledge, establishing civilization, the benchmark, the trade marks of civilization, and that those beings came from somewhere.

And specifically, this is, by the way, what the late researcher extraordinaire David Flynn unfolds in this book "Sydonia", which was the most, as I was telling you earlier, the book "Sydonia", that's the most consequential book I've ever read. I've ever read my entire life.

“You got me a copy, I really appreciate it.”

It looks amazing. And his daughter, Tyson, who I'm friends with, I'm very good friends with, his twin brother, Mark, who's brilliant in his own right and author himself. And his daughter, Tyson, is an Alexander.

And I'm so excited that Tyson, because it was basically out of print for a long time.

There was a couple places you could find it, but it was extreme. It was that book before Flynn's daughter reprinted it. It was going for $2 and $3,000 online. And then she reprinted it. Now you can get it for like 25 bucks on Amazon.

But Flynn really unpacks a lot of this in that book. And it really, that provided the substrate for my book, Birthright. And what Flynn proves, I would say, definitively, is that not only did the ancients believe that the gods descended. To the earth in the antidiluvian world and during the Golden Age. But that they came from somewhere very specific.

They came from a planet in our solar system, which planet. Well, it's which planets. Primarily, there's a planet that Flynn talks about, which is sort of in popular culture. It's referred to as krypton. That's where you get the Superman mythology from.

But the ancients also had a krypton in mind.

Or destroyed realm's more specifically. And one of these planets, Flynn believed in I, and I believe this as well. I write it in Birthright, is actually named in the biblical text. So, cryptically, it's called Rehab. Wow.

And that this planet, there's this conflict that erupted in the cosmos, long before the creation of mankind. Because in Flynn's view, and I completely concur, our solar system was inhabited by a non-human extraterrestrial race of angelic beings. So Flynn viewed this very much not as sort of like an interdimensional thing, but literally the planets were inhabited.

“That's why on the cover of that book, there you have the ruined structures on Mars.”

And I believe, of course, most of us are familiar with the Sidonia region of Mars, the alleged face on Mars. Richard Hogan was instrumental in publicizing this back in the '90s. And in fact, Richard Hogan would did a series of conferences with David Flynn. And sometimes there were a company by the late Michael Heiser, this scholar. And they really, as I said, really publicized the idea that there are ruins on the planet Mars.

Ruins of an ancient advanced civilization, of course you have the remote view or McDonald's? Yeah, Joe McMonigle. McMonigle, who recently, I believe was on Sean Ryan's show.

He was tasked by the CIA to remote view Mars a million years ago and described giant beings in ruins.

And ruins eight to 12 feet tall beings in pyramid structures.

“Either way, I think on Sidonia, you do have some pyramids.”

The DNM pyramid, which is a massive, massive pyramid. It's remarkable. And then you also have this guy, allegedly. You have this guy, John Brandenberg, as well, who's a PhD physics who worked at Lawrence Livermore in Sandia. And he believes that Argonne 40 in Xenon 129 exist in excess of what you would ever see just based on kind of natural decay.

And this is proof of a nuclear cataclysm that occurred on Mars. And apparently he got called by Carl Sagan, when he started to talk about this publicly. And Carl Sagan was like, John, why are you making such a fuss about all this stuff or something like that? And you know what, I mean, so Hogan and Flynn were talking about this back in the 90s and only 2000s. And then NASA released the early photographs that it looked like a face on Mars, it looked like a pyramid.

And then they released new higher resolution photographs, which seemed to debunk the whole thing. No, actually it doesn't look like a face and it's not really this.

I personally, I have no proof of this, okay, I'm just a spitball and but I personally think that that the images from the first mission of the surface of Mars were correct.

We're accurate. And that NASA released the second higher resolution images to sort of quell the firestorm that had erupted. And I am extremely persuaded that there are ruins that dwarf anything on planet earth. The ruins of an ancient civilization on the planet Mars, specifically in the region of Sidonia. And this, what's so fascinating about this is that the ancients believed that the gods descended from Mars and from this other planet that was destroyed.

It's sort of, and this is again, sounds very complex it is and Flynn lays it out. I mean, you read Sidonia and it's like, to me, there's no question that the ancients believe that the gods descended from Mars and from Ray Happ.

“And as I said before, I believe that Ray that the destruction of Ray Happ, which is always associated with the wrath of God, this, this pre-ademic conflict that erupted in our solar system.”

And, and, and this, this faction, this defected faction of angelic beings who went to war with the King of Heaven. And, and it's associated with the dragon and the dragon becomes a moniker for Satan and the Bible, which neither dragon nor Satan are his actual names nor loose for by the way. That's a, a misnomer from the, from the Vulgate from Jerome's Vulgate.

But there's this character in the new test, in the, in the old, the New Testament of the Bible, who's never actually named, he's much like Voldemort from hit the Harry Potter series.

It's, it's, it's he who, who should not be named, right? He's never actually named, but he's, he's, he is the, the, the great, he's the great opponent of the King of Heaven and of the purposes of God.

And so the destruction of Rayhaven and I flingos through this in Sidonia, I go through this in birth, right? There are multiple verses in the Old Testament that seem to suggest that God shattered a planet that he shattered Rayhaven like a vessel of clay. Pierce the dragon and shattered Rayhaven.

“Are there any of those verses that come to mind and then what's the evidence that it's Mars specifically?”

Well, well, the, the shatter planet isn't Mars, the shatter planet is Rayha. Okay, so, so the idea is that the, the, the asteroid field that the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, that that is the residue of a planet that exploded. And the contention, the popular contention is that there's not enough debris. It can't be a planet, there's not enough debris, but recent papers have been published, peer reviewed papers, I read a couple of them, one at least, in which a very good case is made. And I wish I could cite the paper here, but I can't, I don't remember what it is.

The, the, there is enough debris, because much of the debris, if a planet exploded, much of the physical debris would have a been vaporized and be shot off into space. So you would have the planet explode, much of the debris is just getting a jettisoned into deep space.

And only a very small fraction of it should, should, would get caught up in the gravitational pull of the sun and would be, and would form ultimately the,

the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Now, I'm not an astrophysicist, okay, so I'm way out of my depth talking about this kind of stuff. But the ancient's belief, you can track it that there was a planet that was destroyed. And, and this is one of the places that the gods came from now, it connects to Mars. Because Mars was destroyed partly because of the, in the, in the wake of the destruction of this planet, which again, I also believe is, is attested in the biblical narrative.

There's a few verses, and I don't, I mean, I have them in my book birthright, the exact verses, but there are some verses in the Psalms and elsewhere, which position the earth is a spectator to this cosmic destruction that causes the mountains to melt like wax. And so you can imagine if there was a massive planet between Mars and Jupiter, assuming that the planets today are in their, the same orbits as they used to be, because there's a possibility that such an explosion could have pushed, you know, could have moved things around.

But that planet implodes, I mean, we can't even imagine the destructive force that that would have unleashed.

I mean, there's no explosion, except for like a supernova, that we can think of that, that, that would be that powerful.

But when that planet exploded, it rained down fire, shards of Rayhab, bombarded the surface of Mars, bombarded the surface of the other planets and the solar system, bombarded the surface of the earth, and absolutely reduced everything to rubble, eviscerated, whatever civilizations were inhabiting those planets.

“And so, but it's, but also, previous to the destruction of Rayhab, I believe again, in the biblical narrative, you can, you can trace the thread of a cosmic, pre-ademic war that erupted in the heavens,”

among this angelic civilization and possibly other things as well, and it was between what the Bible describes as the king, the king of heaven, who vanquished the dragon, who pierced the dragon, who crushed the dragon's head and shattered Rayhab, like a vessel of clay, and that in that process, in this conflict, the civilization on Mars was eviscerated.

In other words, they were first, they were first engaged in this conflict, technological conflict,

with again, who the Bible describes as the king of heaven, who is revealed to be the son of God, the kinetic war, and then after that, you know, or in the midst of that conflict, Rayhab explodes, God destroys it, and then that's like, that's the final blow to this rebel faction. So this would be the idea here is a rebellious faction of quote unquote fallen angels, are going to war with the king of heaven, kinetic war in the cosmos, indeed in our solar system, before the creation of Adam.

Wow. So this is a pre-ademic race of intelligent beings, clearly extra treacherous,

“especially if their habitation is on Mars and Rayhab and elsewhere in the cosmos, which I believe it was.”

And I don't think it's even controversial on kind of conventional astronomical circles to say that Mars had a biosphere at one point.

I believe also in the '90s, there was ALH-8401, this media where that was found that Bill Clinton made a speech on,

and said they found polycyclic hydrocarbons or whatever in the media.

“And I think they sort of backtracked that like they backtracked on the Viking missions, by the way, I've heard that the JPL guy who was in charge of the Viking missions,”

also swears by there being sort of evidence of life on Mars or something in his own life. So it's all very interesting. What's even more interesting is that Elon Musk is determined to put men on Mars, and what people don't realize, again, I'm going to reference Sidoni. This is what Flynn traces in his book, is that the objective to put a man on Mars is an ancient aspiration.

It is in fact one of the primary objectives of the mystery schools. Really? Yes. To make contact with this, to recover the loss knowledge of the gods on Mars specifically. On Mars specifically.

Like mystery schools, like the Brotherhood of the Serpent and the Free Masons.

Mystery schools going all the way back to, I believe they go back to Cain. That's just a conjecture of mine. But certainly, unequivocally, the mystery schools are perpetuated primarily through the Phoenicians. And the Phoenicians really are the, you might, aside from anti-deluvian mystery schools, if they existed. The Phoenicians are certainly the primary post-deluvian keepers of knowledge from the anti-deluvian world.

I mean, the Phoenicians were the great Masons of the ancient world and navigators. To see fair people. They circumnavigated Africa for sure. I think they crossed the Atlantic.

“I think they were mining copper in the great lakes.”

I know that's very controversial. I think that the reason why you find red here giants, the remains of red here giants of the mountains of America back in the, the 18 and early 1900s is because they came over the sea with the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians had a cult of giant worship, all kind of evidence of giants among the Phoenicians. And the Phoenicians are like, they were essentially a secret society.

Well, fast. And they, and I mean, who did Solomon contract with to build the temple? The Phoenicians. The Phoenicians. Hiram of Tyre.

And Hiram of Bif. His artificer, the Hiram of Tyre of the King. And Hiram of Bif, his premier artificer. That's who built the temple. Solomon's temple.

They were, they were the master maidsons. They built the fleets for Egypt for Ancient Egypt. And the mystery schools have this aspiration.

“Because I think of the temple of Solomon as part of the mystery school aspiration and interest as well.”

But they have this sort of three line around getting to Mars. I didn't know that. Yes. So again, one of the primary aspirations of the mystery schools is to recover the lost knowledge of the gods from Mars. Now, is our aspiration.

Is Elon Musk's aspiration going to Mars associated with this? Or just part of that impetus, sort of undercurrent for the mystery schools? Is there a hidden hand directing us back to Mars? I would say so. And I think when we go there, soon, probably in our lifetime,

we are going to find evidence of an ancient civilization, extraterrestrial civilization on Mars. And I have a feeling that it's going to be announced rather soon, perhaps even by President Trump, that there is microbial life on Mars or was. That we have evidence of my, I mean, NASA's sort of already beginning to prime that pump.

So I think what's going to come first is the announcement that, hey, there was life on Mars.

We have evidence of microbial life on Mars. And that's the preamble. That would be a good one. Little soft disclosure exactly. Test the waters.

See what happens there. So I think, okay, so we have, let's establish a baseline. So we have these watchers that came down. They were extraterrestrial. They made it with man.

They created Nephilim. Of which we are kind of the descendants. The Nephilim were banished. They were made to be kind of these dis incarnate kind of wandering spirits, demonic spirits.

Yep. And then we have this, all this interesting evidence that a lot of this actually holds astronomical weight in the ancient world. That's right. What is all this have to do with modern, you know, we think about UFOs flying around and alien abductions and is there anything that we think of,

Because I think that my biggest question is like,

you have UFOs back then and you have sacred knowledge back then. Yeah. The sacred knowledge gets lost in the flood. And now, you know, circa 2026, you have Trump tweeting about UFOs. Yeah.

We're all talking about all this stuff. Yep. Is this. And then you have this alleged group of evangelical Christians who are being talked about all the time. Now we're, the Collins elite.

Yeah, it's, it's all very interesting. Yeah. So do you think the flying vehicles of today? Because you're kind of, you could be considered a modern UFOologist.

You, you research a lot of these phenomena today.

You know, if the watchers are chained up somewhere, but some of that knowledge made its way to mankind,

“we're, what are these aerial vehicles that we're seeing?”

So that's actually a great point. So these 200 watchers that descended to the earth within the biblical context, these were a separate group from the other beings, the other angelic beings who the Bible describes in many ways, but in one passage is the devil and his angels, right?

So the Satan figure was here before the watchers descended to the earth. Satan was here with, with his quote unquote fallen angels. I'm not a big fan of that term, but people understand when I use it what I mean. So these, these apostate rebel sons of God and jellic beings are here on the earth. And they have not been chained up.

They've been here, they were here before us.

And this is the remnant of that, let's put it into Star Wars terms.

The Bible alliance, except in this case, they're the bad guys, who were fighting against the kingdom of heaven that we talked about early when Ray Habis exploded in the civilization on Mars, and all that, they came from there. So we're not even, that we're not even referencing the watchers in that context.

The watchers came afterward.

“The watchers came in the days, descended in the days of Jared,”

so human kind was already populating there. That's when the watchers descended. But, you know, the dragon, the devil and his angels, Satan, and his, and his consort, his cohort, they came to the earth or were cast down to the earth

a long time ago after that cosmic battle. So they were here before Adam, they were here before the watchers. There is separate group. These are, these are heavenly beings, right? Probably the same kind of beings as the watchers.

And by the way, there's a misconception, and this really is, is propagated in the West. And this, this has to do more with a cultural perception than any sort of, a biblical fact. Is, is the idea that that quote unquote fallen angels

are these ugly, grotesque demonic looking beings, like they're, you know, like, they look reptilian or something or they have horns and whatever. There's no indication that that's true anywhere. That's not a, that's certainly not a biblical concept.

That's a Western traditional concept because we ascribe, we ascribe their qualities, their, the attributes that they're cunning and their deceptive and their evil, you know, that there's a malevolent beings.

And so we portray them traditionally, they're churches portray them in cultural in culture as these ugly beings, right? When body, these attributes. But, but I believe that these, in fact,

biblically speaking, Satan is described as, as the most beautiful being. He's the, he was, he was the sum of perfection. And, and, and he was absolutely beautiful. And so quite the opposite of the Western tradition.

“And I think that goes for Satan and the other”

angelic beings who defected with him from the kingdom. And, and are now an opposition of the king of heaven. And they're, at least in part, you're on earth. And again, have been long before Adam, at least from my theological perspective.

And many others as well, but, but from my theological perspective, they've been here a long time. So let's differentiate between the watchers, who descend to the days of Jared, and who the Bible designates as the devil in his angels,

the dragon, and the other, the other apostate princes. Because that's what they are. These were princes in the kingdom of heaven. Okay, so what I'm trying to describe here, is a kingdom, a real kingdom, not an imaginary kingdom,

not a spiritual kingdom, not a interdimensional kingdom. Because these are all, there may be, you know, interdimensional aspects and things like that.

with sort of the fairy tale stuff.

“And think of it instead as a practical functioning kingdom.”

And, and that the, those who defected from that kingdom before the creation of Adam, in other words, angelic beings, who defected from that kingdom, are still here with us today, and perhaps elsewhere. And, and that those beings, according to the Bible,

are still active in the world. And so, so, from my point of view, these beings are, they, they, they, they are, very commonly, they look, we look like them. These angelic beings, which is, which is apparent in the, in the biblical narrative,

every time human beings encounter angels in the narrative.

And when I am stressing narrative because you have the narrative of the Bible,

and then you have the prophetic content. The prophetic content is a world of symbolism. This is, you know, when, when, when the prophets are having these visionary experiences, they're either A in a trance or B dreaming. They never go anywhere.

They're in a trance with their dreaming. So, just like in a dream scape, everything you encounter in a dream scape, it, as much as it means anything, is symbolic. So, this is a world of symbolism and communication,

“the world of the, what I'm calling the prophetic, right?”

So, set that aside, and, but the narrative, what I refer to as the narrative, the biblical narrative, is the actual story. I'll give you an example, Abraham encounters angelic beings in the narrative, not in an a vision, not in a trance in the actual narrative of the story, Abraham encounters a group of angelic beings, and he has dinner with them.

He subs with them. You interact with them, just like we interact with each other, and they look like us. They look human. They're not human, but they look human.

They look human, he's nephew lot in counters and angelic beings, who come to extract him and his family before the destruction of Sodom. And what does he do with these beings? He eats with them, is dinner with them, and then they escort him out of the city and the city is destroyed.

So, what I'm trying to establish here is that these beings that we describe, again, I'm coming from a Christian perspective, the beings that we call angels in the Bible. We have a false perception of what these beings are, what they look like and what they do.

And that perception comes from tradition. It's not extracted from the biblical narrative. It comes from church tradition and just Western tradition in general. And in the Western tradition, of course, we're all familiar with the depiction of cherubim in the Catholic church, in Roman Catholicism,

which depicts them as little chubby toddlers basically with little wings.

Is absurd, that's absurd, that's not what cherubim are. That's not how they're described in the Bible. And even the way they're described in the Bible is symbolic. So, because that's within that visionary context. But angels, whenever they're actually interacting with mankind,

in the narrative, they look very much like we do. And they don't have wings, angels do not have wings. And in fact, there are these vehicles that are described in the Bible. And I'm not talking about easy kills wheel. Because easy kills wheel, we're going to relegate that to the trans visionary stuff,

“the dream-scape stuff, because that's what that was.”

It's symbolic. So I don't think easy kills wheel is a UFO. However, in the narrative, you have these other vehicles that are called the chariots of God, or the chariots of Israel, or the chariots of fire. They're described variously at the same thing.

And these are very ambiguous, but these are clearly some kind of vehicle of conveyance. And, you know, I'm old enough to know that horses don't fly. And, you know, the Bible doesn't oblige me to believe that horses fly. Because we think of a chariot, obviously. A chariot is the most advanced vehicle of conveyance in the mind of the Iron Age writer, right?

There's nothing that's more advanced than a chariot. That's it. I mean, that's like the Ferrari of their time. So chariot is pulled by horses. So if you're trying to describe a vehicle that is advanced, you might describe it as a chariot.

A chariot of fire, or a chariot of God, or a chariot of Israel.

Why do they look like us, by the way, something I mentioned earlier?

Because there are siblings. They're the older siblings. They're the sons of God that pre-exist us. That Adams created to be a son of God. So it's a family.

Clearly, it's a family. And we were supposed to be part of it. So, and we were a part of it at the beginning. But we've been centered from the family divorced from the family. Got this, the great tragedy of our story.

We were centered from the family, subjected to, subjected to decay, degeneration. And but the good news is, and this is what the good news, what I alluded to earlier, is that there's a way back in through Christ. He brings us back and restores us back into the family of sons. So these other sons of God, the morning stars.

“Remember that we're singing together and the sons of God shouting for joy before mankind was created.”

That because we're members of the same family, we bear the same image. We look similar to one another. And I would go further than that. I would say, based on everything we've discussed here from the book of Enoch in Genesis 6, we're so alike that we're genetically compatible.

We can copulate, we can procreate. That's exactly what we're doing in the book of Enoch. It's exactly what's happening in Genesis 6. The sons of God are procreating with human women. So, I just choose the path of least resistance here.

It's because they're genetically compatible. One thing I didn't mention when we were talking about those sons of God was that the impetus,

what I call the first cause of the watchers' defection, was lust.

They lusted the book of Enoch says. And this is what the Genesis 6 implies. They lusted after the daughters of men. They were sexually attracted to human women.

“Well, I mean, we can extrapolate then that they have the male machinery, right?”

Because if you're just some rape or you're just some spiritual being, how do you lust? How are you consumed with lust after the female form? And then furthermore, how do you copulate with a woman and procreate? And so, again, I just take the path of least resistance.

I add up all of these data points from the biblical narrative. And I conclude that we are the younger sibling. They are the older sibling. I call them the elder, the elder race in my book. By the way, that's a wink and a nod to J.R.R. Tolkien.

Remember the elder? Yes. In the Lord of the Rings and the Silmalarian were the elves. But the high elves. And who were somewhat related to humans and could certainly copulate with them.

But that's not exactly from where I derive the idea. I derive it from the biblical text that we are the younger sibling. So why am I building this structure here so that I can begin to build on top of it? So what I'm trying to depict here is that there's a faction of beings. Perhaps one of many that are pre-existous.

They look like us rather we look like them. They're more magnificent than we are. King David said the songs that man kind of was created to be a little lower than the heavenly beings. So these are those heavenly beings.

“We remember of the same family. That's why we literally look like each other.”

We bear the image of our father. And who's the express image according to the scriptures? The express image and likeness of the father, the son of God.

So basically we look like the son of God who's the pre-eminent son.

And so we are genetically compatible. We can copulate. And so I'm depicting a class of beings. Angels who are technologically advanced. Who you use utilize technology.

There I say flying saucers. Who have knowledge that that is much older than any knowledge on earth, much more advanced. Who come from a kingdom. The Bible describes as the kingdom of heaven. A literal kingdom with a king and a council and courts and courtiers and courier.

And armies, the most common name for Yahweh in the Old Testament is Lord of armies.

So you have angelic armies.

“And as I was a kid, I always thought, how do you have supernatural armies?”

How do they do battle? Because I was thinking of it as supernatural, which means above and beyond nature. And I've since changed my view. And I believe there is precisely one supernatural being in the universe. And that is the father, God, supreme.

Everything else, everybody else is subjected to the laws of nature equally so. So you have this functional kingdom from which these beings come. Now, so you have this faction of beings, the angelic faction, the sons of God, the morning stars. These are all the same, I'm using those terms analogously for these beings. And they look like them, they're used technology, they speak a language.

And then you have a group of them that defected. Those are the quote unquote fallen angels. That's the group that defects from the kingdom. Those are the beings who are an opposition to the king of heaven on earth. Opposition to his kingdom.

Opposition to mankind, corrupting, always seeking to corrupt and cause mankind to become disaffected

with the kingdom of heaven and to sin against God and to reap the repercussions, which is what they were doing with Israel. And these beings are here. So those beings speak the same language as the unfaithful fallen angelic beings. Speak the same language as the faithful ones, they look the same.

They use the same technology. So again, what I'm doing here is I'm creating this structure upon which coming from a Christian perspective to be able to understand the phenomenon without reverting to supernaturalism.

“What do you think they want to do with humanity now? Do they have intentions for earth?”

Oh yeah, there's no question about it.

From a biblical perspective, the enemies of God first and foremost are in opposition to everything that God desires.

And they are almost their job is to lead mankind to stray into apostasy to cause mankind to transgress and to destroy us and by doing so to do injury to God. That's part of what they do. So this is all building, this is all, this is all, this is the crescendo of my book, birthright. The culmination is Armageddon. And Armageddon is so often interpreted as a war with Israel.

But if you really pay attention, Armageddon is a war with the Son of God returning to the earth. And I believe that's a kinetic war. So I think that literally these fallen sons of God, these apostate sons of God are slowly building, eventually they're going to be building an army. They're, they're, they're massing the technology, they're building an army, they're leading humanity into a post human condition. And the objective is to use serpdoming in of the earth and resist the Son of God returning to the earth. Now I understand that, you know, that's a very theological position.

So your viewers who aren't coming from a biblical perspective may think that that's absolutely absurd. However, from a biblical perspective, that's absolutely accurate. So, so yes, there's a conflict coming. And all of this is mounting towards that conflict, that ultimate conflict between good and evil. And so those beings are at work in the earth. They've been here for a very long time. So let me make this really practical for people. And then I'll shut up. Let me make this really practical.

I love it. So, you know, I'm, I'm, you probably, where I'm, I'm a person who is completely utterly convinced of the nuts and bolts reality of the UFO phenomenon.

“Because I myself have seen a UFO, read above my car, 40 feet above my car. You know, a UFO, I think it was a ARV, but nevertheless, where was this?”

It was a historical trial. Well. So back near Wright Patterson. No, it's near the John Glenn NASA Research Center. And also, well, yeah, the NASA Center there. See, I think it was possibly human reverse engineer or, so I'll digress into this really quick because this, this, this sort of illustrate the point I was about to make.

It was, it was, it was before I, I currently living Montana, it was before I moved to Montana, I was living in Reparco, rather a Cleveland Ohio, where I was born. I was born in Reparco, Ohio. And I had just returned, you know, a year or two previous to that from Peru. I lived in Peru for about 10 years.

And I was living in Cleveland and not far from my brother-in-law. And he and I would always work out in this basement.

And, and, and, and I would say more often than not, the topic of conversation with UFO stuff. And he were deep into Lizarre and just kind of kicking around what the reverse engineer technology would look like. And, you know, all of that sort of stuff. Talking about Gray Ali and talking about sort of all the uphological lore. That was more often than not, the, the topic of conversation. He's an inventor and so he liked to think about, like, you know, maybe what, what, what some of the anti-gravitics look like and stuff like that.

And so one day, probably was the top topic of conversation this evening. We were working out in this basement. And he wanted to run over to the suburb of Reparco, Ohio, which is, that's where I actually grew up as in Reparco, Ohio.

“And so we, we hopped in my car and this was probably, we were trying to get there before a close. I think it closed at 9 o'clock.”

This was in February. Really, it was really cold outside and it was really windy. This particular night, like, really, really windy.

And we jumped in my car and we drove over to Reparco. And we went to the Reparco strip mall.

The, the Brookgate, it was called the Brookgate strip mall. I don't know if it's still there to this day, but I used to ride my bike around there, very familiar with this area. And then, you know, not far from there is the airport in the John Glenn Center, the NASA Center. And there's also a reserve, what do you call it? The Army Reserve, whatever it's called, the base close by. Air Force Base, or Army Base.

Yeah, and National Guard, National Guard. National Guard. And so we're, it's dark outside. It's probably 830 or so. And we're, we're pulling up to the Brookgate shopping strip mall. And there's this light, and we go out to go through the light, then you go into the parking lot, and we're stopped at the light. And we're, we're both kind of just, we're just talking.

“I remember he was talking about some invention he had related to like a toothbrush.”

I can go through that.

And, and as he's talking, we're, we're just kind of looking ahead.

And we see this thing, this craft, hovering above the corner store. And it's got really bright lights. And we immediately thought it was a training exercise from the National Guard. That's what we thought. Oh, look at that. There's a helicopter. There's a training exercise.

Like it was big helicopters. I thought it was like a Chinook or something or like a black hawk. And we were just sort of, you know, amazed that they're, they're hovering that low over the building. It was probably only 30 feet above the building. And so we rolled our windows down.

Because we thought we were going to hear the tell-tale sound of blades whipping through the air. Nothing. And we were close enough. We should have heard it. And it was windy, granted. And we looked at each other like, oh, oh.

So I go through the light.

“There's hardly anybody in the parking lot because it's almost everything's almost closing, right?”

We're rushing to get to the store. Probably 85 by now. Pull into the parking lot. And I don't even like park. I just throw my vehicle into park because this craft that was hovering above the corner

sort lifts up in the air and effortlessly glides right over my car. But it wasn't a directly above it was in front. So that it like positioned itself so I could get a full view of it through my windshield. So it was in front, but above. And then it descended to about 40 feet.

And it was immediately apparent to me and my brother-in-law that this was not national guard. This was not, this was not anything conventional. It was reminiscent of the F117 Nighthawk fighter. It had sort of that angular body armor. A little bit of that.

And it was like a grayish green dark color. Although it was hard to tell because it was nighttime. It had really bright triangular lights. I remember two. My brother-in-law remembers one. But triangles lights white.

And then it had a series of green and blue lights around the perimeter at the bottom. And it didn't have wings. It had little stubby protrusions in the place of wings. And it was kind of shaped like a diamond. And it didn't really have sharp angles.

There was no visible windshield or anything like that.

No markings. There was no propulsionary systems. Propulsion system to speak up. No engines. No propellers. Nothing like that at all.

Again, it just had little stubby protrusions in the place of wings. It was not aerodynamic. It was what I'm trying to say. And we rolled our windows down. To listen to here if there's any noise of an engine.

Nothing completely silent. All we heard was the wind. The wind was so strong. That it was rocking my car like this. It's rocking the gusts of wind.

It's rocking my little Kia Sportage. I think it's what I had at the time. And this thing just like I said descended and just hovered there. Like I was supposed to see it. And we're just staring at this thing.

“I remember saying the only thing I could say was Tony.”

That is some top secret. How do I told him?

And then we're just staring at this.

And then suddenly like I'm thinking. I don't I have a flip phone at the time. He has a smartphone. I'm thinking. Get a picture.

Get a very good video of this thing. So I said, Tony, you're phone. You're phone. And he's coming out of a trance. And he starts, you know, looking for his phone.

And his pocket, he finds his phone pulls it out. Drops it on the ground. So he bends over to pick up his phone. Right to get up to get a picture of footage. And is he's bending over?

I mean, we probably were staring at this thing for at least 30 seconds, which is a long time. Maybe even a minute or two. I don't remember. We had a long look at this thing.

And as he's fidgeting on the ground to find his phone, the craft lifts up into the air. Again, it is so windy. And I failed to mention. The craft is completely unaffected by the wind.

Completely. As if it's in its own atmospheric bubble. Lifts up into the air. And then it begins to turn effortlessly. And by the time he gets his phone up, it's moving away.

And it's just gliding away. And we jump out of the car.

“And I just remember jumping out of the car,”

getting blasted in the face with ice cold wind. And by the time he got his phone up, it was descending over the horizon. Like, over behind the houses. Toward the glass, I'd rather toward the NASA

John Glenn Center, by the way. Right in that direction. Well, no. Again, it had no insignia. No air force insignia.

It was not a helicopter. It was the size of a Shinoka or black hall helicopter. No insignia. No propellers. No noise.

No propulsion system. No windshield. Was it a drone? I don't know. Whatever it was, it was not using conventional technology.

That's for sure. You know, I mean, you know, when a hearer jet takes off, if there's vehicles below it, like blows him out of the way. Right? Yeah.

This thing, nothing. So, I don't know why. But I sort of concluded that I was looking at, you know, what people call ARVs alien reproduction vehicle. I don't know why.

I can't say, I don't know why. But I got the distinct sensation that this was ours. This was, this was, but that the technology was exotic. I don't know. That was just a feeling, which doesn't mean much.

But that's what I saw. And, and that was it for me, okay? So, everything that I had been learning about in the realm of uphology. Right? Was suddenly concretized in that moment.

Now, that doesn't mean that everything's true. But it means the phenomenon is real. 100%. We've got advanced technology. Now, whether we, you know, took some divergent path

from Nikola Tesla and built it ourselves, or whether we derived some of this technology from crash retrieval. Which is what I believe. In fact, I would say I know that. To be true at this point, my luck.

The phenomenon is real. The technology is real. People are in possession of it. And are utilizing it, are deploying it. And that really, like I said, it concretized the whole thing in my mind.

Way back then. And so, moving forward from that position. It wasn't, you know, I wasn't struggling in choking on aspects of uphology.

Like a lot of people do because they've never seen anything.

I was able to just have this baseline understanding that, yeah. Something, there's some aspect of this is, is absolutely real. Do you think this biblical, fallen angel idea accounts for all of the phenomena that we see? Okay.

That's a very good question. So, this loops us right back into what I was saying, which was that I established

“that I believe that the, the good guys in the bad guys looked the same.”

We look like them. They come from an advanced ancient civilization that pre-exist us,

And some of them are loyal to the king of heaven and some of them are in

opposition to him.

“So you have the quote unquote, good angels and fallen angels, right?”

You have the loyal sons of God, disloyal sons of God. And they're both operating. I believe with the same technology. So like I said earlier, you know, we established that the watchers are a separate group from, I believe they're the same species, so to speak, but they're a separate group.

So, when the watchers descended to Mount Hermann, I believe that they were at the Helms of advanced aerospace vehicles. I believe that the technology of this civilization is exceedingly advanced. So, some of what we see out there is, for a lack of a better term and jelly technology.

That's the way that I would describe it. Now, some of that technology is being piloted by good guys and some of that technology is being piloted by bad guys.

But the technology itself, you cannot ascribe motive to a piece of hardware.

You can't say that that piece of hardware. Flying saucers is no more good or evil than my truck. See, you would say as below, so above they're getting bad people and they're just like getting bad. Just like on earth, there's factions of human beings and some of us do good and some of us

do evil, but we're the same species. And we're used to same technology. So this is interesting because it's almost, you know, we've heard people like Jacques Delay talk about connecting the modern phenomena with sort of biblical elements. And then you also have people like how put up, who actually lives out here in Austin,

who wrote an interesting paper about the salurian hypothesis. These ultra terrestrial. Yes. So survivors of an ancient cataclysm. And you're sort of combining them.

Well, I'm going, so that's the first.

That's just a component of the phenomenon. Okay. Do I believe that describes the totality? No. Okay.

Does not describe the totality of the phenomenon. I'm glad you're saying that because I agree. I get to every time we try to. Yes. I don't believe that describes the totality of the phenomenon.

I think that's an aspect of the phenomenon. These beings we call angels in the biblical narrative. Angel, by the way, is just a occupational descriptor in the Bible. It just means messenger and envoy. One who is sent.

It doesn't give us any insight into the nature of those beings. And often they're kind of terrifyingly violent. We do. Well, the bad ones are certainly. Yeah.

So or even, I mean, it depends on where, like in the Old Testament, sometimes they're violent, but it's sort of in this more or less. Sautamings are more. Sautamings are more. Exactly.

They've disarrayed. Sautamings are more. They do that. I don't know. Maybe there was a saucer having above that thing.

Yeah. So, so, you know, people, this is very difficult. And it was difficult for me in the beginning. In the beginning to sort of retool my mind. Yeah.

But, you know, to challenge the audience, you know, anybody who's like, we're talking about stuff that's serious now, and that the government's talking about. But in the past, all of this is extremely speculative.

“And you have to, if you have these ancient traditions that are all”

triangulating towards a common truth, and you have, you know, eons, I mean, Lou, I think Jacques Delay is kind of this really important kind of godfather of modern UFO research. Great. View readers in the sky, read Passport to Magonia. You have to take this trans-historical, trans-cultural.

Yes. This isn't just post-raws well, nuclear-age American stuff happening. That's right. This is where I like to draw delineations here. So, what I've described is one faction, one aspect of the phenomenon.

But I don't think that describes the totality of the phenomenon. And what I mean by this is, if I know, because I'm so convinced of the biblical narrative, I know that that faction exists, this angelic faction, and that they're in the game. They're major players in the game here. But also, being a eager uphologist for all these years,

I know that great aliens exist, and I know I say that definitively. But I think the evidence is overwhelming. And the reason why I say the evidence is overwhelming primarily. It's not because of the whistleblowers and all of the crash retrieval stuff, Leonard's string field, all this stuff he compiled, although all of that is compelling.

What pushes me over the edge is alien abduction.

“That's what pushes me over the edge, regard to great aliens.”

So, I have too many friends and associates who've seen them. And have been touched them, and have been taken by them. So, you know, the amount of people out there who have been taken, have implants with, you know, the implants of isotope ratios that don't occur on earth.

Roger Lear was literally like extracting them from bodies. And then Andy, Andy captured one of the best you, and I don't know what you think about it, but one of the best ufo videos I've ever seen.

Oh, I've never seen this.

Oh, you haven't. You haven't seen this one, maybe. I think it was in Lebanon. I can't remember the details, and it's like it looks like a crafty, you can see grays inside of it. Oh, yeah.

And I don't people say that that's been debunked. Another people say it hasn't been debunked, but I didn't know that was his video. Roger Lear captured that. Wow. Is that weird?

That's wild. Here's the guy pulling implants out of people. Yeah. Yeah. So not whether or not that video has actually been debunked.

I don't think so.

“I think it's one of the most compelling videos I've ever seen.”

Is it Lebanon or is it Turkey or Turkey somewhere in there somewhere in that area? I don't remember where it is. Yeah. They're looking over the ocean. No, it's an amazing video.

Yes.

And it looks like the big bulb is headed gray aliens in there.

And nobody's ever conclusively debunked it. That's with a lot of imagery. Yes. You have the negatives. And nobody can concluse it.

That's right. Long before the age of AI. Yeah. So I don't know. But that Roger Lear was awesome.

And yeah, implants are so overlooked. I mean, it's like, either way, this is oftentimes my conversation with some of the congressional people I interact with. Like, you want evidence? Yeah.

There's a lot of people walking around with exotic material. Technological material in their bodies. Yeah. And I don't-- there's no question about it. I mean, this is the aspect of you follows you, where you can mind the most physical

material evidence is the abduction stuff. Yeah. It's so straight.

“Well, you know, I interviewed Whitley Streber and you could say what you want about some”

of his stories or his book or his writing background.

Whatever. I felt an implant in his ear. And I don't think he's put it in his own ear. Yeah. And all these doing that for show.

Yeah. That's right here. It's at the top of his ear. And it's so straight. And then I just did a show with my buddy Chris Ramsey runs a great podcast called

Area 52. We had this guy come up on stage. And he had an experience when he was a child. And he has something very similar in his ear. And he could put a magnet externally on it.

And it'll stick there. It's so strange. Most people who have implants. Most of them are generally located somewhere in the head. Although people have had them all of Roger Leer extracted implants from knees and whatever.

And you know, my colleague and good friend, Ellie Marcelli worked with Leer and and was there when they extracted some of these implants. And they would describe. He would describe to me how some of these implants were evasive. Yep.

They move. And they don't call. They're not rejected by the body. Yep. They don't cause swelling.

They migrate around the body. But often. And many abductees have ejected them unintentionally from their nasal cavity. You know, they'll have a bloody nose and they eject an implant. The baby will come out.

A little baby will come out. They're shaped variously. Like some of them are look like tiny little pills, oblong some of them around, whatever.

“And I think Leer concluded that they had some sort of nanotechnology in them.”

Yep. It's a very, very sophisticated technology. And it's like that's physical evidence. It is physical evidence. That's physical evidence.

And not only that. And in an award, we're diving in daily introduction. But not only that. Because let me before I dive into alien abduction. Let me just wrap up what I say in real quick.

So I said that the angelic stuff doesn't account for the totality of the phenomenon. Yeah. Because, you know, I look at the gray alien faction. Again, I'm very, very persuaded that that faction is real. And you have the little grays.

You know, people think are atomic tons of some kind. Maybe artificial intelligence or something. I like to think of them as cybernetic clones. Cybernetic clones. And they're, to me, for my perspective,

they seem to be clearly created by the Insectolines. You know, what Dr. David Jacobs describes as Insectolines, the Man-Tid-Bees. In my estimation, that's the biological species that organic species and they're making the little grays.

And there's not just little grays. I mean, there's big grays, too. I mean, from, you know, from uphological lore, at least. And, but the little ones are the ones that come to retrieve the abductees. So that's a faction.

And so, when I say these things, and I talk about angelic beings, people can flake the two. Like they think I'm saying that the grays are the angelic means. I am not. I just want to make that.

What do we think the grays are? So, I don't know. Yeah. I have no idea. Grailies are.

But, or where they come from. Yeah. You know, are they crypto-terrestrial? Are they, by the way, you, you mentioned something really interesting. The anti-deluvian hypothesis that maybe some people,

from, like, an Atlantean civilization escape, maybe one off planet or under the earth. And then now they have this advanced technology that they developed a long time ago. And they're still here, right? I love that idea. I don't know if it's true.

Yeah. But I think I find it intriguing. I find it intriguing.

is that wherever they come from, they have bases here now.

Yeah. So, let's say there was a forward operation of grays that came years ago. Well, they established bases a long time ago, just like we would. If we were, we're coming, by the way, for a hostile purpose. We would come in, we would establish a forward operating base.

“And an anticipation for more of us coming later, right?”

And so, those forward operating bases would be, would be established in the areas that human beings would least look for them, or, or be able to discover them, which would be at the bottom of our oceans under the ground, under ground bases. And certainly, at this point in time, I would say that it's much more likely to be true than not, let's put it in very generous terms, that these bases exist, specifically the grays.

And maybe there's mobile bases, you know, the forechand stuff that I've seen of mobile bases and units. That's right.

And they're creating these craft-to-spec, which I think is, again, wildly intriguing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it seems to comport to a lot of the data. Then the other stuff about how the grays excrete, you know, they excrete waste out of their skin. Yeah. They smell like ammonia, sulfur.

Yeah. That's why people say that. And, you know, people sometimes Christian say, well, they smell like sulfur, so therefore they're from hell. Right. So, whoa, whoa.

They smell like ammonia and sulfur, which is, which is like, you know, you're in coming out of your skin. Right.

That's what that would smell like.

Right. If you're excreting your waste or your skin, that's, you know, you would expect it to smell like ammonia. And then like that sulfuric smell, I could imagine that if you're dealing with beings that are excreting waste of their skin. They don't have sexual organs. They don't appear to have tongues or they might have pallets in their mouth, but they don't appear to have teeth.

Their organs appear to be different from ours. But they are clearly physical beings because they, they crash and die. And, you know, I've got a friend who, um, I've got a friend who is an abductee and, and she actually in one of her experiences. She actually grabbed one by the neck and squeezed it before she passed out in one of her abduction episodes. And she said it felt leathery, like a snake, like, you know, like the skin of a snake, cold clammy leathery.

And so, you know, the, the popular idea today is that some people don't think that these are actually sentient beings, that they're just sort of meat suits either for artificial intelligence or in a Christian community. It's very popular to say they're meat suits for demon, demonic spirits.

“Um, I don't subscribe to that theory myself, but I think, as I said, I would describe them as cybernetic clones.”

And the reason why I would describe them that way, I know we're like diving into gray. I don't know if you want to... Other, yeah, of course. But the reason why I would describe them that way is because they do appear to have, according to abductees, they do appear to have personalities, vague personalities, but personalities nonetheless. Why do I say that? Because in the abduction material, you find abductees who can recognize the grace,

or they can perceive their age, like this one's older, this one's female, that one's male, even though they don't have sexual organs. Um, there's sort of a personality that they're picking up on, even though the grace are very robotic, and dispassionate, stoic. Do you have any sense? Because I know you've looked at David Jacobs, Carlaterner, John Mac, all these, but Hopkins.

But Hopkins, who's really kind of the greatest compiler of all this stuff. Do you come out of looking at that research with any sort of idea of, as to the intentions of these beings? Yes, or you do. Yes, I think that. So, but Hopkins was just sort of documenting the phenomenon. Yeah.

You know, as an objective observer, maybe subjective sometimes. He did get very, very raptured in the lives of the abductees, but brilliant, brilliant researcher. I'm going to separate out John Mac, quite tons of respect for love John Mac. But John Mac was much more psychologically involved in the phenomenon, like, you know, kind of just sort of trying to parse it from a psychological aspect.

He was on the fence about it being the physical phenomena. But nevertheless, he laid a lot of groundwork. And him and Bud, some of the, I don't know if you can still find these.

“Have you ever seen the interactions, the dialogues between Bud Hopkins and John Mac?”

I don't think I have. Yeah, really fast and another challenge. Both men were just complete gentlemen. Yeah. Both of them were extremely intelligent guys.

Both of them very objective. So they never argue. They're just having dialogue and some of the awesome, it's some awesome UFO content. That's, that's not seen very often anymore. You could probably still find it on YouTube.

Just, I have a ton of respect for both of those guys. But Bud Hopkins was kind of documenting the, the physical reality of the, of the, of the,

And then, then, enter Carlaterner who was herself a student of Bud, Bud Hopkins from afar.

And Barbara Bartholick who she interacting with another great abduction researcher. And what made Turner unique was that she was an abductee and her family. So now she is writing from the, from the, from the perspective of being an abductee. And her family was subjected to both alien abduction and my laps, military abduction. And Carlaterner stuff is so fascinating.

I love Carlaterner. She died obviously very aggressive cancer.

“I believe Hopkins died of cancer too, if I'm not mistaken.”

Barbara Bartholick if I recall died in a very, by died in a car accident. John Mac was hit by a car. John Mac was hit by a car and if I recall another guy named John Mac was hit by a car in the same day, right in England, something like that, a very strange circumstance. And then, you know, David Jacobs is still alive.

Yeah. I think has dementia. I think so. Yeah. And so Carlaterner was,

What's the lesson here is, don't study alien abduction? Yeah. You know, think about that. Yeah.

“I mean, Turner said that she would say that she would be in her book.”

She wrote, she wrote the book taken. Mm. She wrote, well, into the fringe, which was a story about her family. And then, of course, Mass Creative Angels, which documents the story of Ted Rice, who's still alive. And, and Turner was so fascinating because she was so, so, um, unflinchingly objective.

Even though her life was being affected by this, she would say, we don't know where they're from. And we cannot believe anything they tell us. Here's what we know. We know they take us against our will. We know that they force us to carry babies.

We know that they take sperm and eggs. We know that they subject us to all kinds of invasive procedures. So she was very, very, she was not like trying to put her own spin on it. Um, which I really appreciated about Carla.

I, I, I, I, we really lost an amazing researcher and Carla Turner when she died.

Um, and the new, you know, all these new people coming to ufology. They don't, they don't, they don't read Turner. They don't read Hopkins, you know. So, but what I was going to say about Turner was, um, she really highlighted, uh, a couple of things. The capabilities of these beings.

She referred to what something she described as virtual reality scenarios. The RSS that these beings were were in possession of technology that allowed them to fabricate virtual reality experiences. So that an abductee can be seen in hearing things and it's complete virtual environment. And you could have other people around them and they're not seeing the same thing. So it's like a hijacking of human perception.

“It's literally, they cart demon. Yes. So you could, they have the ability to hijack, I think, both through telepathic powers and through technology, the implants.”

So, and, and external technology that's directed toward the abductee.

So, the, Turner's first like, the first thing she would stress or one of the main things.

In her books and in her lectures was, you cannot believe these beings. You can't, you can't believe anything they're showing you. You can't even trust your own experiences when you're with them. Because they control your perception 100% you are under their control. That's the, that's one of the main things she would stress. I think that's a very healthy starting point.

It is out of think about it. It is a very healthy starting point. So, all these people established, like with alien abduction, John Mac and David Jacobs, and all of this really culminates in David Jacobs. Like David Jacobs, I feel like pulls all the pieces together, put some together. From a very objective, from a very objective perspective, he, of course, being was a tenured professor of history at Temple University.

So, he was approaching it as a historian, and all of these people, you know, between them, they interviewed thousands of abductees, thousands. And some of it was hypnotic regression, and some of it was like with David Jacobs, he didn't practice hypnotic regression. He just did what he called relaxation techniques. And so, all of them would, one of the things that you realize is that this phenomenon, alien abduction, their starting point, just like you said, is deception. That's how, that's the starting point of this phenomenon, deception.

The grays don't, they don't communicate to you what the program is about, and you throw in the virtual reality scenarios that they generate.

And that's not to say that the abduction experience is virtual reality. No, it's a hundred percent physical. You're literally taken from the point of abduction and brought on to an alien vessel, subjected to all the procedures that are typical of the abduction episode. But they have the power to completely hijack your perception. And in addition to that, they implant false memories.

So they implant screen memories so that the real memories have to be retrieved behind that screen.

So when you're dealing with beings who can do those things, you can't trust anything that they say, or that you think happened.

“That's why it reminds me of like the gin and Islam or like the sort of trickster.”

Very difficult being that implant false, literally false memories. And you think, like I think in the gin's case, they would like change certain verses of the Quran or whatever, and that was, you know, it's like, Yeah, the sort of that typical trickery that's associated with demons, however. I love chocolate. But I would disagree that as it, and so did Dr. David Jacobs by the way. And I would guess Turner probably would disagree with this as well, although I don't know that for sure, Jacobs definitely,

that the alien abduction phenomenon has anything to do with ferries and gnomes and sky people. I disagree, I agree with Jacobs. I would say this is a completely different phenomenon. Now does that mean that there weren't saucers and techn--no, no, it doesn't--I think that that sort of technology did exist in the anti-doluvian past. I'm just saying there's a different faction in play right now or at least another faction in play. This specific faction, the gray aliens.

“It's interesting because I remember I had--and I don't--I think I said this in my book.”

I had personally come to the conclusion after consuming all of this abduction material from these excellent researchers, the old school guys and gals. I remember concluding that it appears to me that the abduction phenomenon must have begun somewhere around the mid to late 1800s. That was my conclusion. And I remember--and I drew that conclusion based on the fact that it seems that this phenomenon, the recollections of this phenomenon only go back to the mid-1800s, early 1900s. And I remember I was at the gym working out with my headphones on listening to David Jacobs, listening to one of his lectures, and he said in his lecture that he and Bud Hopkins,

because they were colleagues and did a lot of work together, that he and Bud Hopkins had concluded that the abduction phenomenon began in the mid to late 1800s. And that it is not older than that. And I was just astounded like that's precisely what I thought.

“And I'm still thinking that to this day. I believe that the abduction phenomenon began, let's call it the turn of the century, maybe late 1800s, early 19th century.”

And this is in a very interesting period of time, because most people don't realize about the turn of the century, the 19th century. Is that there is a corresponding phenomenon happening all around the world, especially in the United States and in the West generally speaking. It was the phenomenon of spiritualism. When I wrote my book birthright, I was resourcing articles from the late 1800s, early 1900s. Some of these are all about this phenomenon of spiritualism, this wave of spiritualism. And some of these articles said one of these articles in particular said that it was as common at the height of this thing,

for an American to get up on a Sunday morning and go to a seance, as it was to go to church.

And so when I say spiritualism, I'm talking about basically what the Bible describes as divination.

As the seances, these are all kinds of sort of psychic acquiring of medium, medium ships, medium ship. It was happening in the White House, it was extremely common. This was when you had the go ahead. I was just going to say that it'd be a parapsychology started then, the Society for Psychical Research in the UK started then, William James.

I forget those sisters.

And then, of course, you had Theosophy as well.

Right in the middle of it, so long it's looking at, you know, with all this occult history and these alternative history involving root races and hyperboreans and Atlantis and that sort of thing. Right in the middle of it, the Theosophical Society is established, exactly. With Helena Blavotsky. And so you have this spiritualism rampant in the West, the United States and Europe. And then suddenly, at the same time, you have the mystery airship phenomenon. Literally, same time, these things, these things coalesce.

That's fascinating. The movement of spiritualism and the airship phenomenon.

Now, I would say a good portion. I remember talking to Richard Dolan about this. A good portion of the mystery airship phenomenon is just hyperbolic. Is newspapers, periodicals at the time, just trying to one-up each other, right, with sensational stories. So, even considering that much of it was that, you still have incidents. Nestled inside of this mystery airship phenomenon that are very credible, witnessed by many, many people.

And that correspond to the modern UFO phenomenon.

“Silver re-objects flying in the sky. You know, I think a lot of the propellers and the balloons and all that kind of stuff that people say they saw in the mystery airships was confabulation.”

Remember, nobody's flying yet. Nobody's flying yet. It's pre-right, brothers. But you know what, you have out there? Jewels burn. So, you have the steam punk stuff in the minds of the observers. And so, I think in many of these cases, nobody can understand, like, you take a piece of metal and throw it up in the sky. And you can't envision how this thing can just stay up there, right? It falls to the ground. So, see that little shiny thing way up there? It must have balloons. It must have propellers.

I think a lot of people confabulated, you know, they sort of overlayed the steam punk, just like chariots in the box.

“Just like chariots, precisely right? So, but I think that, you know, when you, when you, when you distill the credible real sightings and you, and you, you know, you take all the cream off the top of all of the hyperbolic and sensationalism.”

And you're left with a phenomenon that is very much like what we have today, very much like what we have today. In terms of the metallic objects, the saucer, the cigar shape craft, you know, darting around in the sky, moving it in possible speeds. And this corresponds with the, so you have, so you spiritualism, mystery airship, alien abduction, coalescing, the same time. And this gets us into some very bizarre territory, because I think that, this gets a little theological, but I think that, to some extent, we invited the phenomena, not the totality of it.

I'm just talking about a sliver, the gray alien faction, okay? And this is what people get confused with when I'm, when I'm talking, this sort of jumble everything I'm saying, and, and not you, but a lot of people in my audience. So I've separated out the angelic faction, okay? That were here long before we were, right? They were here long before we were. So they've been flying around here forever, I mean, since before human beings were even created, biblical speaking. That faction is out here. We've already thrown them out into the ether. Now we're narrowing down on this other one called gray aliens,

which I would say is a separate faction, a separate thing. Now people, you know, from my community Christians, there's some very interesting ideas out there. Some people think that the gray aliens were manufactured by that group.

“I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I guess anything's possible. Some people think that the gray aliens are meat suits for demons. There's all kinds of ideas floating around there, right?”

Some people think that the gray aliens that faction are the watchers, whatever, there's a lot of ideas. But what I'm trying to do here is, I've took that, the sons of God, I've separated them out, now we're folks on gray aliens. I think that the gray aliens arrived. I don't believe they're from here. I think they came here, okay? They arrived to the earth. Maybe there were some forward groups that were here just sort of preparing, but the abduction phenomenon began, as far as I can tell, and in accord with Hopkins and Jacobs, the abduction phenomenon began in the mid-1800s.

And maybe we were broadcasting something. Maybe we were, again, theologically speaking, maybe we were permitting something to have them through divination, just speculating here.

“But I don't think it's coincidental that these two things dump too. No, and it's really interesting, you hear about this magenta crash, you know, 1933 and Italy, and you know, it's being spoken about in very official circle.”

Like this is what David Grush came out with talking about. He wasn't talking about, you know, Roswell or any of the kind of proverbial archetypal American crashes. And then I interviewed this guy, Harold Maumgren, who is this, you know, advisor to JFK, LBJ Nixon and Ford.

And he's talking about how James Jesus Angleton, who's this long time CIA counterintel guy, who discusses UFOs a lot and is probably responsible for the MJ-12 docs getting leaked.

And, you know, makes you think that maybe part of that's passage of material trying to catch Soviet spies at the time because that was what he was obsessed with. But he was stationed in magenta Italy with his father, Hugh Angleton, and Maumgren is 89 when I'm interviewing him and he is just obsessing over this idea that the Knights of Malta have something to do with this crash. And, you know, they're obviously this military arm of the Vatican. But they also have, you know, headquarters of the Vatican. Yeah, exactly. And they have esoteric roots, you know, they're really the ares to the hospitaliers, which are the kind of medic armed to the Templars.

And then you hear things like the Cosmo Club, you know, had to do with UFO crash. This is this like a leak like DC society, which was doing kind of occult stuff.

And this guy, Dark Journalist, talks a lot about this stuff. But I've heard it in circles in UFO whistleblower circles as well. And so there is something here and I think we're looking at the remnants of the mystery schools. Yeah, okay. And so the mystery schools are to the average person. So the mystery schools are secret bodies secret fraternities. Who's objective it is to preserve and recover knowledge from the anti-deluvian world, the knowledge that was given to mankind by the gods.

“That's what that's the objective of the mystery school is. And that's why they go back to at least the Phoenicians. You know, the free maisons, they trace their origins back to, well, really back to Tubalcane and Cain, the first builders of cities.”

But even more specifically, one of their primary figureheads is Hiramabif, right? We referenced him earlier, who's the great art officer of the Phoenicians at the time. I believe he was he was part Jewish and part Phoenician. And so these mystery schools, the information that they keep that they preserve. On the surface it looks metaphysical. On the surface it looks mythic, like the free maisons, right? All of their, all of their, when you see there's a video later, recently, of a free maisonic, right?

And it just looks like a bunch of adults playing dress up, right? And it is, at this point in time, that's primarily what free, the free maisonic lodges are. Some good old boys club with a dress up and act out things they don't understand. But the, the play acting is a, is a, is a mode of preservation of knowledge.

“So the mystery schools preserve knowledge in their rights and in their myth, their, their various mythologies. In fact, that's what mythologies do.”

If you were to talk to the ancient sages, for example, and this becomes apparent when you read material that's available from some of these ancient sages from Egypt and from Mesopotamia and so forth. The, the myth is, is a capsule. It's, it is designed to, in case to preserve, like a pill, it's, it's, it's designed to preserve and to transmit through time, functional information, knowledge, not metaphysical, for the most part. But, but knowledge that pertains to what we would call the sciences today. And many of the myths pertain directly to astrology and actually more accurately astronomy.

So many of the myths are astronomical, the, the information that's encoded is astronomical and a lot of it pertains to what we call today, the zodiac, the procession of the procession of the equinoxes and cyclicaticalism. And, and these are things that were very important to the ancients, but in addition to that.

And, without digressing into the whole history of of some of these myths like the Osiris myth, they illustrate that the knowledge that's being preserved is from the anti-deluvian world. And, at, by way of illustration, Osiris, according to legend, was the myth of Osiris, you'll recall that he died and his body was divided up. I can't remember how many pieces. I think it's a very important part of the story. I think it was 13 pieces, but that story begins by his twin brother set, who's like the evil version of him, builds his coffin. He has this coffin built, because set wants to use Serpo Cyrus's throne, get rid of him.

And, and Iris, of course, is Osiris, is of course married to his sister wife, Osiris. And, and so set has the sumptuous coffin built, and he throws a party.

“And, he says in the party, I've got this challenge. I've got this beautiful coffin, and whoever fits into it, the best, most perfectly, gets to keep it, right?”

He already made the proportions to fit his brother Osiris perfectly. So, when Osiris gets into the coffin, set has some sealed inside, okay? First idea here.

Osiris, a god from Zeptepi, the anti-deluvian world, is sealed inside of a coffin. Then, set has the coffin thrown into the nile. So, here's Osiris inside of the coffin, who's obviously going to die. He's thrown into the nile in the coffin, and the coffin floats on the nile. So, what we have essentially here is an arc floating on the water with a body of knowledge inside of it, from the anti-deluvian world, right?

“Osiris represents that body of knowledge. And, it's floating on the water, comes out of the mouth of the nile. Guess what it makes its way to?”

Biblos, which is a Phoenician city. It goes to Biblos. It gets beached on the shore, and it gets entangled in the roots of the branch of the Kasia tree. Kasia trees are very important in the very important symbol in the mystery schools, and in Fremasonry. It gets encased in this Kasia tree. And, so much so that you can't see it anymore. It just becomes part of the trunk. Now, Isis decides to go on the quest to try and find her husband's body. So, she's going through the lands looking for her husband's body. Isis represents the objective of the mystery school.

Isis embodies the adeps of the mysteries. Her job is to go and find and recover the body of Osiris.

Looking for the hermedic knowledge for the lost knowledge. So, she goes as she finally makes her way to Biblos in the king of that land.

Melakandor, I think, was his name. He just occurred to me. Had taken that tree, he saw that tree. He thought it was beautiful. He had it cut down. He had taken it and incorporated it into his palace as a pillar. Well, that's interesting. That's conveying that some of the knowledge is incorporated into the architecture of some of these palaces and temples and so forth, right? The geometry, now, is part of the symbolism and some of the messaging. Because remember, inside of that pillar is the coffin containing the body of Osiris.

So, Isis looks for, she gets to Biblos looking for her husband's body and she's able to divine that the body of Osiris is inside of the pillar. She has a cut, cut out, takes it back to Egypt. Where was the pre-fled knowledge condensed two places among the Phoenicians and among the ancient Egyptians? So, the knowledge goes to the Phoenicians after the flood and then from the Phoenicians to the Egyptians, right? You're tracing the idea here through the story. So, Isis has the body of Osiris, but set gets a hold of it again, but this time he wants to make sure it's not found again, so he chops it up.

“I think in 13 pieces, that's a detail I should know. Pretty sure it's 13, maybe 14, I want to say 14 pieces. I don't remember.”

We forgive you. You'll forgive me for that. But the number is important, I just can't recall. Like I told you, I'm really bad with numbers. So, the body's been chopped up. You're not bad with general memory.

It's chopped up into pieces and those pieces are distributed all over the place because set wants to make sure this is never found again.

And so, Isis, what does she do? She embarks on another mission to recover the various pieces of this knowledge that had been scattered abroad.

She starts to recover the body of Osiris which represents the body of anti-deluvian knowledge, a knowledge that was given to mankind by the gods. She begins to assemble it. But she can't find the final piece, which is the phallus, because it was eaten. So, what does she do? She fabricates one. She makes a golden, she makes an artificial phallus. So, that she can copulate with Osiris. She resurrects him. She puts all the pieces together. She resurrects him momentarily with the artificial phallus. She copulates with him and becomes impregnated by him.

So, that now, she's conceiving the offspring of Osiris, which is Osiris who's going to be reborn and that child is named Poros. And so, this story communicates the objective.

The modus up a run dive of the mystery school. It is to recover the lost knowledge of the gods, reassemble it, and resurrect their empire. Literally bring them back. And that may sound crazy and spooky and metaphysical to everybody, but I'm telling you that's what they want to do. I told you earlier that one of the primary objectives in order to do this is to go to Mars and get some of them recover some of the knowledge that they want to bring the gods back. And they actually believe that the gods are real.

What's so interesting is, Saskia Neil McCastlan, do you know that name? He's trending on Twitter right now, and I don't know when this comes out, but hopefully he's found by the time this comes out. Because this is a guy who's a general. And I believe Ryan the lab that essentially, you know, foreign material exploitation ended up with the Roswell pieces, if you believe the lore. And he was tombed a long source for a lot of his sort of stuff, a secret machines and to the stars Academy, was known as this very kind of wise guy who literally, I mean he was AFRL like Ryan Air Force acquisition.

So like in conventional circles is like an impressive guy, and apparently he would talk a lot about Greek mythology.

“And so you have to, and then you hear things like Diana Pesolka who talks to this NASA mission controller Tim Taylor, and she talks about people in the quote unquote secret space program.”

Or even conventional space program, rocketry, you know, paying homage to the sponsors with second century Latin, and then he looked at all the names of all of the missions in NASA.

Well, the place, all of the local, locales that they land their stuff on. Yeah, all, it's all from the, the pantheon of the Greeks and the ancient Egyptians and the Mesopotamians. Yeah, it's fascinating. It's almost as if they sort of secretly, they secretly believe that those sort of little G gods, or the like, you know, the Greek gods, or you know, whatever whatever your tradition is, the, you know, fallen angels are like more vital in some sense than the big G gods.

“Big G gods, sort of like, you know, communicating with them. That's for all of this is headed. I believe that's what I write in birth right is the culmination of this.”

We were talking about this off camera. So what we're headed for here is the formulation of a new religion and I've been saying this it's 2020. We're headed for the formulation of a new religion. See, everybody thought that that the Neil atheism that was on the rise back in the, the, the, the 20 teens was kind of just going to sweep over the Western world and basically eradicate religion. And actually the opposite is happening now. People are becoming more religious. Yep. And, you know, there's a lot of people who are, who are becoming Christians now, but then also a lot of people who are just adopting other kinds of or becoming spiritual, generally speaking.

“And then you have also now a religion of technology that the elites are are obsessed with, right? The Silicon Valley religion that, you know, I think it was Ray Kurzweil when they, when they asked him, do you believe in God? Not yet.”

In other words, in other words, we're going to create God, artificial intelligence. This is a religion of the, of the technology. And he has Noah, you've all hierarchy writing that homodias, that's like, that's our next incarnation is like when man becomes like God or something. And 100 to, what does he say? 100 to 120 years from now, there will be no more human beings left on planet earth. And what he means is that the human species is going to evolve. This is directed evolution, right? So we're going to direct the, the evolutionary, a cent of our species using technology.

And integrate cybernetics, artificial intelligence, and then also something most people don't realize it's coming is the genetic revolution, artificial wounds, designer babies all coming along with robotics, advanced robotics and everything else. It's here, right? Artificial wound technology, I think, is here. It's just, you know, some of these things are there's a moral gray area that there's some legislating that has to be done in some of these barriers that have to be surmounted before this stuff hits the commercial market.

But the point is that what I see is a convergence of two things happening. I see a new religion being formulated and it's going to combine the convergence of these two ideas. One is a very ancient idea.

“This is at the core of the mystery schools. It's called a pothiosis and a pothiosis is the deification of man, man becoming like the gods, that's what a pothiosis is. The second component is theism, a belief in the gods.”

So the religion of the future in my estimation is this, the gods of old actually exist and we shall become like them.

That is the religion of the future. And what do I mean by the gods? They're going to show up in UFOs. The gods are coming and I think this is going to be a component of our going to Mars. I think there's going to be a revelation of Mars that's going to happen in our lifetime. What we talked about before that there was, in fact, an ancient extraterrestrial civilization on Mars and that the gods of the ancients were actually extraterrestrial beings. Of course, the claim will be also that Yahweh was one of these extraterrestrial beings and then furthermore, culminating by the way, I'll remind you, from my point of view, culminating in Armageddon.

“So the idea is going to be, and this is by the way going full circle back to the beginning of the story, where Eve is being tempted by the serpent in Eden.”

And what does the serpent say to her, if you eat of this fruit, you will not surely die, you will become like the gods.

So it's going full circle back to the beginning. So you're going to have a scenario which, again, for my estimation, for my perspective in which it becomes apparent that the gods of your, where these real extraterrestrial beings and the god of the Hebrews is one of those. And he happens to be the tyrant. And so the gods are going to lead humanity into a kinetic war, and it really is post humanity.

“I know this sounds crazy, but I do build, and I don't keep referencing birthright just to promote it.”

But really, I do build a, it sounds crazy, but you can build a logical progression to this reality. And part of this reality is what I call the post human apocalypse. And what I mean by post human apocalypse is precisely what Herari says, that in the future, the majority of the populace on planet earth will be post human. No longer be homo sapiens sapiens. In other words, when no longer be the offspring of Adam and Eve, vividly speaking, they're going to forfeit the, they're going to forfeit the body of Adam, so to speak.

And with the birthright of Adam, which is dominion of the earth, in favor of this, this Faustian bargain, in favor of life extension, in favor of living forever. And there's indications in the biblical text that this is in fact going to happen. I mean, in the book of Revelation, you have a group of people who are, when, when everything is coming apart in the book of Revelation.

When basically the judgment of God is be falling on earth, you have a group of people who cannot die, and who are calling for the rocks to fall on them and crush them because they can't die.

Very interesting. I mean, you can imagine a scenario, maybe not that far down the road in which we've perfected Daniel technology. We're, we're upgrade, we're up maybe, I don't know if this is possible, we're uploading our consciousness into artificial bodies, maybe nanotech bodies, maybe robotic, whatever combination of all these technologies. See the culmination of these technologies, make note, no mistake about it. The culmination of the technologies is to, is to redesign human biology.

It is, it is to create homodales.

It is, it is, that's the Friedrich Nietzsche.

That is the impulse of evolution, Friedrich Nietzsche, obviously the, the famed philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche was a proponent of evolution, but he didn't like evolution by natural selection. Why? Because Darwinism evolution by natural selection has no purpose, right? It's purposeless, it's blind.

Nietzsche didn't believe evolution was blind, he believed that evolution had a purpose, and the purpose of evolution was to bring forth the UberMetch, the Superman, the superhuman in the earth.

“That's why I mean it feels like post World War II.”

Eugenics just went underground, and you see, I don't know, all this stuff coming out with the abstine files, and it's weird, man.

It's just, it is, it is, in mesh with the occult. Yeah, it feels in mesh with the occult, it feels very transhumanist. I think the transhumanism stuff can be tricky, like there are things like IVF, for example, or things that are like, you know, it's probably pretty positive, you know, like modern medicine is good on the whole. Gene Therapy.

Gene Therapy would be awesome. Gene Therapy you're taking, so our genomes are, we have a, what's called, a mutational load in our genome, which means that we're copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies, and every time make those copies, you get, you get errors in the code, right? Some geneticists believe we're headed for error catastrophe, by the way, which means we can't reproduce anymore.

That's, that's a thing that's believed quietly by population geneticists, by the way. We're going to become reproductively imviable, enter artificial wounds. So, so the idea is that you get to a point where you're reproductively imviable, because your genome has broken down to session extent that, that you're dying, you're dying of all kinds. We have tons and tons of genetic diseases, but I'm digressing into this, I'm sorry, I catch you all.

No, I mean, so that's, it's clear to me that all of that is happening, and even the thought process of, hey, this is healing, versus this is extending our brains, and you know, turning us into some post-human thing, that thought process is not occurring among elite circles. It's this reflexive desire for self-deification for everlasting life, you know, all that. And then you said something else very interesting, you said that will coincide with the gods themselves returning.

So there'll also be this theological element to this.

“So is in your prediction, because I think the, I think the prediction around elites doing transhumanist, you know, self-deification.”

I think that's safe. The other prediction of, you know, the return of these beings in UFOs, would you put a lot of weight in that, do you believe that that will happen in our lifetime? Oh, in our lifetime probably. Yeah. Yeah. I suspect, by the way, to complete my thought, which I rambled on, that I was going to tell you, I was going to agree with you, that there are certain technologies that I'm totally for.

Gene therapy, the reason why I said that was course. The human genome is so, so full of error and mutation, that you have what we know to be the correct code here, and if somebody's got, a mutated gene, at least a cancer, at least all kinds of psychological selenemia. So if you go over it here and you take that human gene, the right code and you plug it in to the equation, it, it cures the disease, right? So I'm all for that. I just want to make that clear. I'm not like a ledite.

“I think you could take gene therapy, human to human.”

The problem is when you're starting to either grab code, snippets of code that aren't human,

cross species genetics, or you're creating new code, and you're modifying the genome in ways that are not natural to the genome that are not indigenous to the human genome. So just to draw that line, that delineation is it pertains to these technologies. But yeah, I believe that the, you know, at some point, so here's the way, I see course I can be completely wrong. Okay, this is just rank speculation here. I think that we're headed for a disaster, twofold disaster. I think that we are headed for a natural cataclysm, because we're due for one.

The hour is now for cataclysm based on Zodiac, and we could talk about that later, based on the procession of the equinox and all of that. We are transitioning from one A on into another, okay, and when that happens, that's called the Sun Tellia last for a thousand years.

Going back and referencing what we're talking about, the priests of size, explaining all of this to soul on of Athens.

“That's a component over here. Cataclysm is coming, but in conjunction with the cataclysm is you have the activity of gray aliens,”

which we were mentioning before. The gray's appear to be engineering, a human alien hybrid species that is indistinguishable from us, but is not us. A species that for all intents and purposes looks just like us, but they retain the telepathic capabilities of the gray's. They can control us, in other words. And one of the most frightening things about, one of the most alarming things about Jacob's final book, walking among us, is he documents the latest thing that the abductees were telling him from their abduction episodes.

In that, he called this personal project hybrids. He familiar with that, the personal project hybrid.

So he described this as personal project hybrids, because the gray's have been trying to perfect a hybrid.

“And this progression is evident in the, in the abduction material, because in the beginning, people were encountering abductees were encountering hybrids that were very imperfect.”

The heads were too big. They're here with scraggly, their eyes were too big. They kind of look human, but they look too much like the gray's. They were too short. And as the years progressed, so did the program. And you were getting more refined hybrids that looked more and more like us until, until lately or at least when Jacob's published his book was a 2016 somewhere around there.

He was reporting these, these advanced human alien hybrids that he described he calls hybrids.

And they're so advanced that as I said before, they're indistinguishable from us, but they retain the telepathic capabilities of the gray's and they are completely loyal. There are legions as to the gray's, not to human beings. And so these advanced human alien hybrids would be assigned according to Jacob's would be assigned to certain female abductees. So you get these male hybrids, they're assigned to female abductees. These Jacob's called personal project hybrids, because the female abductee, they would have to, they would have to tutor the hybrid.

And teach them about life on earth, teach them how to do mundane things, how to go and do grocery store and buy groceries without looking like a freak. How to just be out in public, how to drive a car, what a refrigerator is, what a TV is, just the most basic things. And what's really frightening, I should use the word alarming, what's really alarming is that these, these hubris, according to Jacob's, are psychopaths. Like, these are like superhuman villains. They abuse these women sexually, but also verbally, they completely manipulate and control them.

They're very violent, they beat them in certain cases. These are really, really evil people, these hybrids. According to the account from the abductees, they're very abusive, or at least some of them. And so it makes you wonder, like, what is the endgame here? Well, David Jacobs said that the endgame of the abduction program was planetary acquisition by stealth. So they integrate themselves into us as the opposite of the board from Star Trek, right? The Star Trek and Star Trek, the board assimilate other factions into themselves with the grace integrate themselves into our civilization.

And it's a conquest by stealth.

“And so I think that elements of the United States government are aware of this.”

And I think, and certainly, if you were referencing Carlaterna's work, one thing that Carla was always talking about was the fact that some of these abductees were being, would be abducted by Graalians. And then when they were turned, were turned to their homes, the military would show up. And then they would, they would endure a my lab, a military abduction, which was oftentimes much more violent. And the military, according to Turner, and her husband got abducted by the way, Turner's husband, was abducted by elements of the military.

They think they were brought on to Air Force bases, in some cases, sometimes underground bases. And they were interviewed and interviewed in a nice way to say it.

interrogated. Thank you. They were interrogated in regard to what was happening on the alien vessel.

What were the grace doing? They were trying to figure out what the grace were doing. And they're trying to use the abductees to get inside into what the grace were doing.

“And because I think there's panic and ensued by that time, I don't know what you think about this.”

I personally am persuaded that the Greta contract was real, but it actually happened. So this is this Eisenhower agreement that essentially in exchange for some tactical advantage, maybe some help with warfare or whatever, we would let the aliens do sort of medical experiments across the United States population. You abduct our citizenry. So I don't know, but if you look at the data, it seems like abduction ramped up around that time like mid century.

So it's very interesting. They did. And this is what I think some of these researchers would have concluded. Was that yes, there was an increase in abductions. And the abduction phenomenon is exponential because it's it's hereditary. So if you Eisenhower's granddaughter is an abductor, and it's like all over this issue, which is really interesting, Laura exactly.

So alien abduction is hereditary. And so if you're parents for abductees or one of your parents, then you're also an abductee. It's hereditary. I found no exception that rule. Now the reason why I'm so. There are runs and families.

Yes, it's it's definitely hereditary.

“The reason why I'm so interested in this phenomenon is because I interact with a lot of abductees.”

They come to me and they tell me their stories.

And of course, I'm always aware of the fact that you got screen memories and there you got VRS scenarios.

And so forth, you sort of have to navigate circumvent some of that. But basically, and they're coming to me all the time. I'll probably get another wave of them after this interview. And they're all telling the same story, still. Maybe there's some variation in there that I haven't picked up on.

But for what I've seen, it's the same thing. It's they're being abducted and they're being integrated into this breeding program. Forcibly, the manner having this sperm taken, the women are having over taken. And then there's some sort of an in vitro fertilization with some exotic component. And that's re-inserted into the woman's womb or an extra uteroll womb, even if the woman doesn't have a womb.

You know, she had a histerectomy, zedus skull. They take the womb out and then the grace created an artificial wound. And these women, they carry these babies, these hybrid fetuses for about three months, right before they really start to show. And then they're abducted and the fetuses are taken out and put in gestation tanks. And this is the ongoing procedure, this is what's happening.

And it's still happening. I know there's a narrative out there that alien abduction isn't happening anymore. Not as far as I can tell, I have a friend by the way, who I've known him for years.

And I've always suspected that he and his kids were abductees.

Well, I suspect that. Because of various experiences in dreams and dreams. Sure. That things that were indicative of alien abduction.

“And I never really, I think I've asked him in a pass if he thought he was an abductee and he never thought he was.”

But the other day, this last spring, I was in my office working and he happened to be at my house. And he came in and my office were talking for a second. And then he's walking out and he stopped and he said, he turned around and he said, I forgot to tell you, they came and got me. And I was like, what do you mean?

Who's they? Who came and got you? He said, the grace, they came and got me. And then he walked out to me, pulled up his sleeve, he said, look. And he had the typical, I don't know if you ever seen this, the delta formation.

The dots, the delta formation. That's a lot of abduction. Yeah. And it had been a couple of weeks and it was fading. But it was clearly there.

He said, he said, I had this wild experience. It's like, I was sort of out of it and all this weird stuff. And I woke up with that. And he's like, they came and got me. And it was just like a punch in my face.

Like, you know, I'm constantly being reminded. Yeah. This thing is real. And it's ongoing. And we were talking about the implants earlier, too.

So anyway, so that's happening.

that they're integrating these human alien hybrids,

indistinguishable from us into human society. Right? What's the endgame there? Who knows to direct civilization in a particular way, an elements of our government know about it?

Then that is a clear and present danger. I mean, that is, it's like a sci-fi movie. It's like a scenario that's, that's, it's ultra-red alert.

“The human species is being served from within, right?”

And so why do I bring that up?

Remember, I talked about the natural catastrophe that's coming.

The cataclysm cyclic, we're due. We're within that. We're in a suit telly right now. And when you talk about that more if you want later, we'll how we know that.

But we're in a suit telly. Cataclysm is going to be fall. Now, that's a thousand-year window. So we don't know when exactly, but we're within the window. And then you have great aliens doing what they're doing simultaneously.

So what do I think is going to happen? I think somebody's going to show up to deliver us. Interesting. Well, my, they're one of these or both of them. Wow.

And that group will be received as the gods. Turning to the earth that these are the gods. Perhaps they'll say that they created us. They placed our genome with big foot or something or some hominism. Some ancient hominid.

And that they provided some of their own genetic material. And they've been sort of guiding us through our evolution. All of these centuries, all of these millennia. And in your view, that should be viewed as a deception. From my point of view, this would be the group that the Bible identifies as the man of sin.

Yep.

The anti-Christ, basically, presenting himself as the Savior in place of Christ.

And Jesus was one of us or I am Jesus. That's sort of a thing. And showing up to to to to deceive humanity. Of course, that's a very specific point of view. It's a point of view coming from a biblical perspective.

“But I think my God, I mean, the trajectory is certainly headed that way.”

And so, and that, and that, what happens then is humanity is, is, And by the way, in the book of Revelation, this figurehead, the beast is what the revelation calls him. It's figurehead. The beast consolidates power on earth, governmental power on earth. And then he leads mankind into worship of the dragon.

That's what happens. He leads mankind into worship of the dragon. And so, I think that the narrative that's coming is that these beings are going to show up Wouldn't be surprised if they look like Nordics, contrast that with the grace. You know, here's the clear enemy who's, we have no defense, by the way, against the sin.

I mean, they're far more advanced than we are. They're integrating themselves into our populace. We have a natural disaster on the horizon. These beings show us to show up to deliver mankind from these disasters. They will be received as our extraterrestrial saviors.

Our progenitors, our Promethean benefactors. And then, according to my perspective, they will lead humanity. Post humanity, really, lead humanity into the final stages of a post-human transformation. And then they will take the armies of earth and their faction to go to literally go to war with the king of heaven. Returning to the earth.

That's called Armageddon. Now, again, I know that that may sound plausible to Christians. And it may sound utterly ridiculous to people who aren't Christians and people different persuasions. But there is definitely a biblical case for what I just laid out. Yeah, fascinating.

Speaking of evidence of Nephilim and this whole narrative, you're one of the few people I know who has gone deep on this phenomena of giants and giant bones and mythology around giants.

“But I think maybe most interestingly is even countered personnel and the Air Force who have fought giants in Kandahar in Afghanistan and the mid-2000s is that correct.”

Yeah, this so this begins for me, this begins with Steve Quail. I used to work with Steve Quail, who's an author and really his area of research, his primary area of research was biblical giants. And I was working with Steven Montana and we created a production company called Gen6 Productions and we were making a film series at the time called True Legends, which was focused primarily on giants, right?

And in the midst of this, Steve was contacted by an elderly woman who told him that her son had a story that he needed to hear, but her son did not want to come forward because he was still active duty.

“And she said, "You need to, my son has a story, you need to hear it."”

And she ultimately, she was able to convince her son to come to tell Steve the story.

So he got in contact with Steve. I believe they went on coast to coast to Amwood, George and Ori. That's the first time they, that this individual story was heard. And then subsequent to that, we wanted to put him in our film in our documentary series. And so we flew him out to Bosom, Montana.

And we interviewed him, Steve and I. He showed us his CV, his credentials, he was active duty. He was a C130 pilot, cargo pilot. And he told us a bunch of stuff about his background. He was a fascinating guy.

And just a lot of confirming data and just really demonstrating that he was and he said he was. And then we interviewed him. But he wanted to be interviewed in Silhouette. He knew that his voice is already out there.

And people, he understood people were going to be able to put the pieces together. And find figure out who he was, if they wanted to. But just to maybe add a little layer of making it a little bit more difficult, he wanted to be filmed in Silhouette. So we filmed him in Silhouette.

And he told us the story that has since become known as the "Canda Hard Giant."

“It's grown into a mythology on the internet, right?”

But this is where it begins. So he was a, as I said, he was a C130 pilot. And he would fly missions into, into Bogramar field. And Afghanistan. And he would describe these missions as classified.

And he would always often be called into pickup high valued assets.

And he said, usually these were like Taliban guys. And so this was routine for him. And one day he's flying in there, he said in 2005. He was flying a routine mission into Bogramar field. He lands on a tarmac.

And I've been getting this detail wrong for those who've been hearing me say this. I've been saying he disembarked from the plane and walked over to the hangar. That's not true. I double checked the other day. He disembarks, he deplains with his crew.

And they're met on the tarmac by individuals. He describes as the baby sitters. And he thinks that these are Air Force intelligence or army intelligence, something like that.

And they told him right away, he said, "I've never been met on the tarmac like this.

I always go over to the hangar and get my cargo." And they said, "This never happened. No pictures. Don't ever talk about it." And as they're standing there, as he's standing at the baby sitters, he sees a foreclift,

bringing over a crate, a huge crate. One of the, an air pallet, an air cargo pallet.

“Which are, you know, I think they're 14 feet.”

I think I got that right. No, no, no, not 14. There's, there's their nine feet long. Somebody will correct me. Maybe nine feet long by something seven by nine.

I think it's with that. They're larger than like the pallets at home depot. And they're heavier. You know, there's, there's doneage under them and they're heavy. And so it's a nine foot long pallet.

And there's something on it. And it's, whatever is on it is covered with a tarp. And he said the first thing that hit him was the odor. It was this pungent odor of like bio and death. And it was, he said it was like unlike any of these, he's ever encountered.

And then as they put this thing down on the ground. So it can be weighed and loaded into the aircraft. He realized that that the tarp wasn't covering the whole thing. That parts of this thing were hanging out. And it was apparent that it was a really, really big dude in his words.

And, but it was not a normal person because it was in the fetal position. And it was, it was hanging off the pallet in the fetal position. Nine foot long pallet hanging off the pallet. Part of it's head was, you could see part of it said. You could see a tans in its feet hanging off the pallet.

And they weren't covered by the tarp. And he said that the, the, the hair of this being was red. The skin was pale. White. He said it had six fingers on each hand.

And six toes on each foot. And the feet were wrapped in a very primitive canvas type wrapping. And he said he and the guys that were standing around the body were actually taking their boots and putting it up to the foot. And he said it was, you know, twice as big as every twice three times bigger than everybody's boot.

They're all putting their feet up to the foot.

And, and he said this thing was solid as a rock. He would, he was, they were all kind of tapping it on the top. And he said it was like a brick. I mean, this thing was just like solid muscle. He said it could have been some rigor mortise or whatever.

But I mean, it was apparent from what you could see of this dude that he was, he was a brickhouse. So, how tall? So the pallet was nine feet long and he's in the fetal position. So they estimated his size at 10 to 12 feet tall. Wow.

They weighed the giant, they weighed this being because they had to weigh it. The load master had to wait before they put it on the C130. He weighed the whole thing weighed.

“I think they told me and I could be wrong.”

I think it was 1500 pounds and then when you subtract all the doneage and pallet and whatever else. I know that the final weight was 1100 pounds. The final weight was 11, and he told me for sure. He said that the weight was a, this thing weighed 1100 pounds. And so you can imagine, let's say it was 12 feet tall, 1100 pounds.

So, I mean, it's thing weighs more than like a codiac. Bear. I mean, massive, massive guy. And then, you know, he was asking about the body. How old were you guys to get this thing?

And they told him that they had heard.

They didn't know that they didn't know that they first had knowledge.

They heard that a group of guys got lost somewhere out in Afghanistan. This group was out there. These military guys were out there doing something, recon or something like that. And they weren't reporting back in. So, they sent out another group to look for another team went out to look for that first team.

And when that second team found them, they found them either at the mouth of a cave or in a cave. I can't remember where, but it was in the vicinity of a cave. And they were all dead and this gigantic humanoid was eating on one of them. And they were able to kill it. They were able to take it down.

So, killed the whole first team. That's what he heard.

“Now again, that's what those guys had heard.”

Had heard. So, maybe that was just a rumor.

But either way, the giant was airlifted from the Kandahar region.

And deposited at Bogram to be picked up by the pilot. And so, he loaded the giant onto the aircraft. And then they transferred it to Qatar, a basin Qatar. And that's where his interaction with this being ends. So, he was part of the transport of the body.

Yes. And he told me he heard to the grapevine. That the giant ended up at Wright Patterson. So, I don't know if it's true, but that's what I heard. And he was sure that the being was dead while he was dead.

Yeah. It was definitely dead. Was it shot? Yes. They filled it full of ammunition.

So, I mean, the thing. And from what I said that it was, it took a lot of firepower to take him down. She's this. They sound kind of traumatized, as he said. No, no, no.

He sounded very fascinated like this crazy thing happened. Here's what happened. Yeah. He wasn't traumatized because he didn't. He wasn't involved in the interaction with the giant when it was alive.

And he didn't know if the story of it eating on guys was true. Sure. So, that's just what they had heard. So, he's like, I can't confirm that, but this is what they told me. Still, even seeing the thing.

It's like fuck. Yeah, crazy. Yeah. Since conducting that interview with the pilot in subsequent years, I've been able to confirm that story by several sources or have that story confirmed by several sources.

And I have to be very careful because I want to protect these guys. And I should say, before I get into that, that might my colleague, why reference earlier, Ellie Marcioli, he had a guy come to him. And this is important because this was confirmation of the story that we had heard from our pilot. Ellie Marcioli had a guy come to him a different guy.

“I think it was a special ops guy from the, I don't remember what branch.”

But he told Ellie Marcioli a very similar story about the Candahar giant. We don't know if it was the same giant or if it was a different one. But in that story, they said it was 2003 as opposed to 2005. Maybe our pilot remembered the date wrong. I don't know.

Or maybe they were remembering the date wrong. But in their story, very, very similar a team went missing. Another team was dispatched to find it. They encountered this giant in a cave. And in that story, the giant skewered one of the guys with a spear.

But apart from that, all the details are pretty much the same. So we don't know. Ellie and our, Ellie and I don't know if, if it's the same story or if these are two separate stories.

So after one giant out there.

“Well, after, after Ellie told that story publicly, he put it in a film.”

And after he went public with it, our pilot got, got a hold of us again. He contacted Steve Quail. And he told Steve. And then he told me subsequently that. He knows that the, the other story is true because he purposely withheld certain details from the story.

So that if somebody comes forward.

Trying to add additional information, he could vet whether or not they're telling the truth. And he said, that guy is telling the truth.

“Well, so that was kind of a confirmation from our guy that Ellie Marcelli's guy was telling the truth.”

Now apart from that, I've been proactive with the handful of people. Some soldiers, others officers that have confirmed to me that A, that story is true. And B, there are even wilder stories.

And there are more giants out there than just one, obviously.

And, and then also that this is one of that, that this, this, this topic is one of the most highly classified dangerous topics to broach. Why do you think it's so danger, like my, I almost suspected to more dangerous than UFOs and crash retrievals because it's confirmation somewhat maybe of an origin story of human kind. But really breaks Darwin unless you come up with some other reason as to why these giants exist. Evolution of primitive to progress apes to mankind is kind of broken by this like where the giants come from.

There are some difficulties for evolution by natural selection, but not too many. I mean, they could just say that this was a divergent homo sapiens species that branched off of water. So they could just add another branch of the tree, so to speak, totally. Other people think that the reason why this is such a touchy subject and apparently very highly classified, the existence of giants, both in an ancient context and in a contemporary context, is because it affirms the biblical narrative. And although that's true, I don't think that's it either because it doesn't just affirm the biblical narrative.

Like we were saying earlier, it affirms the ubiquitous testimony of our antecentence from the ancient world in general. I mean, everybody had mythologies of giants. The Egyptians did the Mesopotamians, they did the Greeks, the Romans, the Polynesians, everybody. The Inca, the Aztec, everybody. It would explain a lot of this megalithic architecture. Well, potentially, yeah, the North American Indians had legends of giants.

Six fingerdread here, giants, by the way. Yeah. And you've done some great videos on that. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, the giants were being unearthed by the Smithsonian institution in the mountains of America. Right during that time, we were talking about the spiritualism and the the airship phenomena, the mystery airship phenomena.

Right in that time, we're unearthing the bones of giants out from the mountains, from within the mountains.

“So why if you're in the Smithsonian, you're the Air Force, why hide this stuff?”

So I've been, I have my own theory here and it may or may not be true, but I have a feeling that really what's behind this, what's behind the secrecy is the occult. Because if you know anything about the legends of giants, you'll find out really quickly that there is a cult of giants in the ancient world, especially among the Canaanites, but not exclusive to the Canaanites. And there were some things that were known about the giants. For example, it was known that the giants, in some cases it was believed that they could be resurrected.

In other cases, it was it was believed that and almost universally actually that the spirits of the giants could be contacted. Remember I said in the book of Enoch that when the giants were killed, their spirits departed their bodies and that they persisted in the world as vagabond race. So those are the demons of the New Testament. And so those spirits are in the world and occult practitioners believe that they can make contact with those spirits, either to harness their power or to extract information from them, to attempt to control them,

or maybe because they're looking for to possess themselves or other people, I don't know, I don't know. But there's definitely in the ancient context there was a cult of giants. And in fact, in the areas where, typically speaking, we know there were giants, and then archaeologically speaking, I would say, we know there were giants such as the island of Sardinia. You have and also Manorca, the island of Manorca and Spain.

you know, with like three walls and a big slab of stone on top, various configurations of domines, some of them are quite large, many of them, megalithic.

“And I believe that the domines are associated with the giants, not just because they're large stones, but they're associated with the cult of giants.”

And this is, this is what I would describe as Canaanite or Canaanitic sorcery. More specifically, Canaanite Necromancy, because Necromancy is the, it's, it is the, let's call it the dark art of trying to contact the dead or resurrect the dead. This is definitely, this was definitely a belief in Canaan, among the Canaanites. We know because there are eukoretic texts that have been discovered that have, that have summoning rights that are summoning dead Nephilim. In other words, it's like a, it's like an attempt to resurrect, either resurrect dead Nephilim, reembodied them, or contact their spirits.

It's a good gallum or something. Yeah. Right. And, well, and, but before I forget, there's a little bit of a, there's a little bit of a crossover here with the Epstein stuff that you mentioned earlier, because

it's apparent that some of the elite, some of our ruling elite are obsessed with, with ball, and ball was a Canaanite deity, right?

“And so you have this Canaanitic cult that's still being perpetuated among the elite, and part of that Canaanitic cult, at least in ancient Canaan, was the cult of giants.”

So, if you go to the island of Sardinia today, for example, you will find many, many megalithic structures that are still standing, those are called Nuragay towers. And, they're, they're circular stone towers, and they're pretty impressive, although they're crude. This is, this is cyclopian architecture, which is large stones fit together without the use of any binding agent, like mortar. And at the top of these towers, some of them are over 100 feet tall, and there are over 30,000 of these things, on the island of Sardinia, over 30,000.

At the top of some of these towers were megalithic basalt stones that were cut.

So, you do have some, some more of the monumental architecture, incorporated into the top of the towers, whereas the rest of the towers pretty crude. But, big stones nevertheless, in the cyclopian style, but associated with these towers, are what are called the tombs of the giants, to this day, they're called the tombs of the giants. Really? On the island of Sardinia. I visited, I've been to Sardinia a few times, and I visited many of the, both the towers and the tombs. And, the tombs are configured in the shape of a womb.

Now, I used to think that it was bull's head because of moleck and ball, and it was clearly a cane in addition. The ancient culture that they attribute these towers and these tombs to, is called the neurologic people, the neurologic culture. But, the neurologic culture, it's clear we're cane in addition, for sure. That culture was cane in addition. There are iconography. There, we know that, at the very least, we know that the Phoenicians inhabited that island for some time. And the Phoenicians were descended from the canonites and had continued on many of the rights, including according to the Romans, they sacrificed their children to moleck.

And that's part of the reason ostensibly why they were either Romans detested them. I didn't know that. So these practices, the sacrifice of children was practiced widely by the canonites and also by the Phoenicians. The canonites, the Greeks called the canonites Phoenicians. And so you had that specifically the inhabitants of Tyre, Sidon and Biblos were Phoenicians, and they were canonites.

But then there were other canonites tribes, right? And in the Old Testament among these canonites, we're literal tribes of giants, clans of giants, mostly inhabiting the high country. And these are the giants that Joshua encountered during the conquest.

“So I think, and I'm going to get back to the cult thing here, I think that Joshua drove out a lot of the giants that weren't killed in the conquest.”

They went over the Mediterranean, across the Mediterranean, and many of them reestablish themselves on the island of Sardinia.

Are the teams extremely large there?

Yes, and I'll get back to the teams in a second.

So this migration, this forced migration, this eviction of giants out of the Promised Land documented in the Biblical text, is evidence in the fact that there was a, I forget who recorded this, one of the Greek historians that there was in Tunisia. There was a column that had an inscription, and the inscription read, "We are the Canonites who fled before the face of Joshua, the son of nun."

“Wow. And so the Canonites obviously were evicted from the Land of Canon, and I think they coalesced on the island of Sardinia.”

And so now you have massive megalithic towers, and you have massive megalithic tombs. Again, to this day, notice the tombs of the giants. And initially, as I said, I thought that the teams were like a ten foot plus body, or, "Okay, so I'll describe the tomb, and then we'll talk about a controversy regarding them and how large they are." So the tombs are shaped generally speaking like a bull's head. Like this Chicago bull's logo, generally speaking, shaped like a bull's head. So I had thought initially that because this is a Canonidist culture, that these, these tombs are shaped, the bull's head, which is a very iconic figure among the Canonites, sometimes representing Molek or Baal, right?

And so I had assumed that this was the configuration. I was wrong. The tombs are actually shaped like wombs. They're shaped like a uterus, which is, if you look at it, if you pull it up on Google images, it's shaped like, it looks like a bull's head kind of.

“So it's got like the two arms and then this curved portion on the bottom, and that's how all the tombs are shaped in Sardinia. Now there's two types of tombs.”

One of them has a trilothon entry, a trilothon doorway, which means it's like megalithic stones that are stacked like basically like a doorway, right?

And then the other configuration is a large megalithic stone that's like a stelle with a little doggy door in it, the bottom, just like a little door. That you and I couldn't fit through, but a young person could, like a 12-year-old or something like 13-year-old, could squeeze into the hole. So, as I keep saying, I'm not inventing the word "tune" of the giants. That's what they're called since time immemorial. They were called the tombs of the giants, and the locals believe that giants were buried in them, in the vicinity of them, or more importantly, beneath them.

So, the contention is by armchair archaeologists that the bodies of giants can't fit in the tombs.

Well, first of all, that wasn't the purpose of the tomb. The purpose wasn't to put the body inside. I'll explain that in a minute.

But even if it were, I wouldn't have started any or the tape measure, and yes, you can fit the bodies of giants in those tombs. So, even if that was the purpose, you could fit a 10-foot tall dude in there. And I'm estimating a guy that's three times my whiff, like laying on the ground, just imagining somebody, three times my whiff, two, three times my height, yes, you can. And the locals think that the giants were buried. There's mythology, local, they're associated with the tombs.

“So, I learned, when I was in Sardinia, that the tombs actually were configured, the way that they're configured in the shape of a womb, with the door and one with the trialathon door, that you and I could get into, but we'd have to soup down, right?”

But the other one, the little door, we couldn't squeeze into it. I learned that those tombs, it's known to the archaeological community, were configured in such a way, so that they could accommodate, what's called the right of incubation or a right of incubation. What is the right of incubation? It was a, it was a right of passage ceremony. So when young people were adults and back then, the ancient world, I mean, you were an adult when you're like 12 years old, right? 12, 13, 14 years old, you're being initiated into adulthood, getting married at 14, 15, 16 in the ancient world, right?

So they were, they were, they were, the right of incubation is a right of passage in which the young person would squeeze into either that little doggy door in the stelle, the one configuration, or they would be sealed in with the door with its stone into the other configuration. Both of them shaped in the, both of them configured in the shape of the womb. So what you have is a gallery inside the tomb. And both of them, it's, it's a quite a large gallery. And in, in, in, in the, in the tomb with the trial, the trial, the thunderway, you could stand up and walk around. They're very large inside.

The idea was that the young person, as part of this right of passage, would incubate in the tomb in order to commune and to absorb the power, the prowess of the mighty one buried beneath the tomb.

Right. So this is like, you can think of this as a, maybe, like a resurrection tomb, somehow you communicating with the beings, the dead giants, their spirits come.

“Remember, the mythology of the ancient world, not just the Jews, it was at the spirits of dead giants persisted in the world as demons.”

So you could commune with their, if you have their bodies, maybe you can commune with their reach out to their spirits, commune with them and be inhabited by them or just gain information. So that imagine, you know, the, the gathering demonic that we talked about earlier was so. So energized, demonically energized that he, that they would chain him up in the tombs because he would scream. He was wild. He was a Pharaoh and he was so demonically energized that he would break the chains.

So you're talking about superhuman strength.

That's pretty useful if you're like a warrior society, right? You want to field some berserkers, some demon possessed berserkers. That's a very useful technology, so to speak, to field an ancient battlefield is demonized berserkers. That's one possibility that they were trying to become, to become infused inhabited by demonic spirits, but, but also maybe just a commune with the, with the mighty ones who had died and gone before them. But that's, they were incubating and they were sealed in there for a period of time.

I guess wilder is keep going. How does it get wilder? Do you remember the WikiLeaks emails? Yeah, of course. Remember there was allegedly an email that was a correspondence with Hillary Clinton, where she was inquiring about the resurrection to embody of Gilgamesh.

“That's right. In Gilgamesh was a giant. Yes. So, so this, we can expect to the occult stuff. So what do I think is behind the cover up of giants?”

I think the occult is behind the cover up of giants. The Epstein-type ball worshiping cult, who are literally attempting to either demonize themselves or others or make contact with these spirits of dead giants, harness them, gather information from them. If they come, if the anti-deluvian world was technologically advanced, there's a lot of information, practical, functional information that you could gain by interacting with these ancient beings. Yes. Do have we ever found giant bones? Okay, so that gets, that's a whole conversation in and of itself. So, on the island of Sardinia, again, those are three times.

And I interviewed a lot of people, and I put all this in a film, it's one of those true legends, documentaries that I mentioned earlier that I, I produced with Steve Quail. The dozens of people in Sardinia, who, who had dug up the bones of giants themselves with their hands. And the common contention here is that these were the bones of giant sloths and mastodons and other megafauna.

But the problem is that the reason why the Sardinians, at that time, were talking about the 30s of 40s, you know, 50s, 60s back in that era.

And why, and these were all elderly people I talked to, the reason why they were actively looking for, or if they were plowing in their field, they, you know, that have a horse drum plown at the plow at the time. Plowing in the field, they, they kick up a large, some skeletal remains, right, of a large, let's say four arm and hand, fingers. The reason why they would, they would be excited about this is because often times, more often than not, they would find jewelry associated with the remains. Rings on the fingers, necklesses, different pieces of jewelry that were just jumbled in with the bones, or sometimes still on them.

“And, and I heard this from a lot of people in Sardinia, the elderly people who still remember it.”

And I interviewed a couple of gentlemen who excavated at the site called Anastasia at the church of Anastasia's Catholic, little Catholic church. And the church was planted on top of a, of a, of a neurologic archaeological site. And they decided to do an excavation of the site. And these individuals excavated, probably going to get the dates wrong here. I want to say one of them excavated from like 78 to 79, and then the other one excavated from like 80 to 81 in that range, right. And they both excavated at the same site, and they both interviewed them separately, and they both told me the same story.

And both of them, the, the procedure was all of the artifacts that came out of the site went into the church, they put tables, they set up tables in the church.

I went to the church of Santanastasia, and it's just a little chapel, and they put tables, they set tables up inside the church. And then they would take the artifacts, all kinds of artifacts, cold and silver and all kinds of artifacts and goblets and plates and jewelry and the bones of giants would come out of the, the site and they would put them in the, in the church. They found entire skeletons of giants, but entire skeletons, both of them independently.

“And I could give you just a ton of examples here, but I remember one, there's a couple of examples that jump out.”

In one day of working, one of these gentlemen found three, they found three skeletons of a giant, you know, they reassembled it. They, they, they, they, they, they extracted the pieces and parts, and then they re, they reassembled it in the, they were told to, to lay out the bones next to the church. As opposed to, usually everything went inside the church, but in this particular occasion, he laid out three skeletal remains of giants. And he said, so the procedure was, I know I'm sort of tying this in a confusing, not here, but the procedure was the artifacts go in the church.

So overnight, somebody came to take them all away, and then when they would come back in the morning, everything's gone.

And they would just, that was how they proceeded. But on this occasion, this guy was told to lay these bodies out in the, next to the church in the yard. So he laid them out three bodies, they were at least nine feet tall each. Next day they were gone. And another occasion, who takes these?

Well, that individual told me that he knows that that some of those artifacts were, were recovered were, were retrieved by certain individuals who were associated with the University of Cajetti, the capital city. And so I didn't, he's called Cajetti. The University of Cajetti, he knows that there were certain professors or somebody associated. He told me the name, who, who communicated with him about what to do with some of these artifacts, including the bodies of giants.

You contact that professor? I couldn't find him. So then the other individual, the other individual, he told me, there's dozens of stories from both of these guys. He told me that he was excavating one day and he had his wife with him. And they found a skull that was so big and he said the vertebrae was still attached to part of it.

Because these were very well preserved. When I say skeletal remains, I'm not talking about bleach bones. I'm talking about like bodies that are really well preserved, not like, not exactly like mummies, but like some of them have sinew. Some of them still have like, they're not just skeletons. And he said this, he, he, he unearthed this gigantic skull.

There's so large that he and his wife had to carry it together. And they brought it into the church. They said there was another day he was, I'm just skipping over a bunch of other ones. By the way, he said he was excavating it at the site and they were excavating one of those towers. Well, there's a new rocket towers.

And he, they, they unsealed the chamber. Like it was, it was almost like hermetically sealed because what it looks like had happened to these towers is they were suddenly, they were suddenly covered in earth. Almost like a tidal wave had swept across the island and deposited all of this, all of this soil over the towers and buried them. Wow. And in fact, that's true because I saw, I saw, so keep in mind, some of these towers are very tall.

“Some of them are up to 100 feet, but they've since crumbled, right?”

But they're still pretty tall. And if you look at the towers before they were discovered, they just look like hills. They just look like hills of dirt, right? And then they dig into them and that's one of these towers. And they're all over the place still out there, all over the place.

What does anybody have photos or video of the bones or so? No, so keep in mind, this is back in the late 70s, early 80s.

And they were told not to take any pictures and never to talk about it.

Again, to individuality of these witnesses came out in your documentary. Well, this particular case, too, but of other cases doesn't. And so they unsealed this one, this tower that was buried.

“Remember, let's say this thing is buried suddenly, right?”

Let's say you've got somebody living inside of this thing. Title wave hits carries a mountain of, of, sort, dirt deposits.

Yeah, whatever is in this thing is sealed inside, right?

And going to be well preserved. So they opened up one of these chambers. And he said he walked it, walked into the chamber with flashlights. And there was a giant seated at a table. He was dead.

And he was just slumped over. And they said that everything was gigantic. He said the table was gigantic. There was a gigantic plate and goblet on the table. And the plate still had, like, oysters on it.

What? Yeah. And the giant had been eating oysters. And he was a giant goblet on the table. And probably nine, ten, eleven feet tall, maybe 12 feet tall.

I've somewhere in that range is most of these giants are in that range. Between nine and 12 feet tall. When the flesh of decayed by that?

“I think it did start to decay immediately as soon as they, like it started to crumble.”

So it was like somehow concealed from oxygen. It was hermetically sealed.

The thing was just buried suddenly, probably.

Shit. So at least this is what they said. They, you know, this is what they're telling me. So, um, and I didn't pay these guys or anything like that. Yeah.

But there's nothing like that. So they, they took the body of this giant. They carried it out together and laid it in the church. Wow. It was very, very well preserved.

And then they took the goblet and the plate. And I mean, they found all, they found earrings. They found all kinds of things. All kinds of stuff. At this one site in Santa Nastasia in Sardinia.

Apart from that, I interviewed lots of other people who found the remains of giants all over the place in the countryside. Well, one guy said that, um, Do you think we'll get concrete evidence of this and all like, I don't know? I don't know. This one guy said, because if this is this prevalent, I would expect that.

And I would hope that we did. Well, like I said, I think the occult at the center of this thing. So I'm not sure. Do right. But it's the same thing with the UFO start for it.

It's like it always disappears, always slips through your fingers.

“Are these bail worshipping pedophiles ever going to go to jail?”

Right. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. No one apparently visited the island.

Yeah. Because everyone was on the e-mails, but no one actually. Right. So yeah. If I see a bunch of Pito's go to jail, and I'll have more hope that we're going to learn the truth about giants.

Yeah. So just to give you one more illustration here, I talked to a guy who's 101 years old. Well, I interviewed him. Well, he was still very spray, very spunky, funny guy. It's a breeze down there, right?

There's the like, scent and air. Yes. This is this, this is some of the longest-lived people in the world. I don't know. So he told us.

Maybe it's the giant DNA. Maybe it. Well, they actually say some of them that they were descended from giants. Well. And on the island of Sardin and you do have an unusual portion of the population with

right here. So, which seems to be a trademark of these nephalemic tribes.

“So, and didn't cane and literally had red hair, I believe, right?”

Who? Or maybe it was an EEC. So I had red hair. EEC okay. EEC all was like a hairy ape.

Yeah. Yeah. So, and that's not related to this. It is kind of kind of so. Okay.

But just to give you another illustration here. Yeah. Yeah. And I just came into my head and then departed. But it was a lot of fun talking to him.

And of course, I had a translator with me. Anna too very. So, Anna, if you're watching, shout out to Anna too. Anna. She was born in Rome, the native Italian speaker.

Actually, I believe some of her family was from Sardinia. Oh, wow. And so, she was with me as my translator. And we interviewed this gentleman. And he, he told us some wild stories.

One of the stories he told me was, one time he was working in a field. When he was a young man. So, this was, I mean, he's 101 years old. I don't know what year that would have been. He told us.

I can't remember. I think it was like 1920s, 1930s, something like that. And he's working in this field because the owner of the field wanted to plan a vineyard. So, they were tilling. Getting ready to plan a vineyard.

And this field was in the vicinity of one of those towers. Right. One of those neurology towers. And they're plowing. And as there's a bunch of guys out there.

And they're tearing up the soil. And suddenly they start unearthing the remains of gigantic people. And he said, they were all starting to shout to each other. And a big commotion because they were all sort of simultaneously starting to unearth like this graveyard. And he said, all of the bodies were positioned like this.

Two by two in a cross configuration. So, like that, all the bodies. And there were dozens of them. And he said, they were gigantic. So, when people say that in South India, they mean 910, 1112 feet.

And they were clearly humans that had been buried there in tensions. There's a graveyard. And as they're digging this up, the owner of the field says, stop, stop. I got to call this in.

And so, he made a phone call to whoever.

The university. I don't know who he called. And then he came back and he said, Everybody has to vacate this area. We all have to leave.

“Said, I've been told they're going to come get their remains.”

They want us out of here. So, we have to go. Well, the gentleman I was interviewing. He was very funny. He said, well, I really needed the money.

And I wanted to make this guy pay me a day's wage. Not a half a day's wage. So, I stayed. He said, I, my plan was to just stay and work. And then say, hey, I just stayed.

I worked the whole day. So, he did a day's wage. And, but what happened was as he's in the midst of working by himself now. Right?

He said, these vans pulled up.

A bunch of vans pulled up. And people started, these people started getting out of the vans with equipment. And he hid. He went and hid himself. Like in the bushes or something.

And he watched them come out of the vans. Take pictures of all of the, the remains that run across configuration. Gather up all the remains, load them into the vans. Then he said, they went into the tower. And they were examining the tower, taking pictures of the tower.

And he said, there was like this in that tower. There was like, some kind of like a passageway that went down. And maybe was obstructed. They sealed it up.

“I think he said they put some stuff in some cemented over it.”

And then they left. So strange. These are the kind of stories I heard one after another. And don't you also have a story of being at a function.

You see this kind of high up air force officer.

And you mentioned the Candahar. Yeah. 2003 or 2005 kind of giant in, you know, confrontation. And then it was his wife says like, he's not going to talk about that. I don't want to.

I don't want to. I got to be really careful with that story because that, that I don't want to get that guy in trouble. But yeah, let's just put it this way. Let's only be very vague. I've had interactions.

Yeah, with people, where we could talk about like UFOs on the ground bases and no whisper, you know, and tell you a little bit of what they know. But when you bring up giants, one of them literally went like this to me. Pointed to his phone. What?

Like that. That's if he raised. And then I had a friend of mine who I told him, I told him some of these stories, right? And he said that he was with a friend of his who happened to be, and I got to be careful here too.

He was with, let's let me be very vague. He was with, I don't want to get anybody in trouble. Sure. I talk a lot. And I got to make sure I'm not saying things about Bernie and any sources.

So he was with this individual who's associated with the government, somebody from the government. And they're just having a casual conversation. He said, they're really good friends. Have his casual conversation. And he had just been with me this guy.

My friend who's talking to his government buddy. He had just been with me. And we're talking like we're talking right now. We were talking like we're talking right now. And he could see was like, well, that's crazy.

I can't believe that. I was like, well, listen, then bring it up. See what happens. Bring this topic up to people who you think might know something. Watch what happens.

So he did. He brought it up with this individual.

“And he said, he asked me, he said, hey, do you know anything about like this?”

Candahart giant thing? And he said, this person who's his friend just totally switched. Yeah. And said, I'm trying to think what he told him. He said something like,

Um, what the hell are you getting yourself into? What are you getting yourself into? Uh, you need to be careful. Wow. You need to be careful.

Like just just casual fun conversation just turned into like this very serious warning. I don't know what you're getting yourself into. But you need to be careful. He's what it was. And then he called me.

And he said, tell me, dude, he said, he said, man, I didn't know what to think. You have to talk to me. But man, I brought this up. And just like you said, he changed on a dime and warned me. So, you know, I've a lot of little anecdotal things like that.

And people accuse me all the time of, you know, the trust me bro stuff. I get it. Look, these are stories. Okay. Well, you know, I'll, I'll hit you at the story of mine, which is before we even met.

And, you know, maybe I was vaguely aware of your work. But this was years ago. I had a friend who's kind of, you know, prominent and like, or semi prominent. I'm like Twitter and like tech circles and stuff. He's like not into any of this like ancient civilization UFO stuff.

Really. I mean, like, maybe is somewhat partial to it now. But like, you know, it's been dragged into it by the fact that the narrative has changed so much in the last five, six years. And we're at like a conference or something. And he's telling me about his buddy who is special forces.

You know, you come to New York, get dinner with me and the sky.

He's special forces. And he claims to have, or his true per whatever is good, you know. The core he was with claims to have fought this giant in the caves of Afghanistan. And so this was like totally independent of anything having to do with you. And so I have to do that.

“Because honestly at the time, I was like, that's insane.”

This is crazy. I mean, I was at the time, you know, UFO stuff was still like kind of integrating in my mind. And I was like, this is, this is really crazy. Yeah, but another independent source. Yeah.

And I don't know. I'm for sure.

I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that I saw something that look like an official like press release from the Pentagon saying the can to hard giant story is not true.

Like, oh, that's funny. They call that. Yeah, that seems like they've gone. They've explicitly one of the public to know that this story isn't true. So again, why all the secrecy like, what's the big deal?

The science existed. You know, we know that giants existed in America. The Native Americans had the legends of the Red here giants. And as I said earlier, their bones were being discovered on record. Yeah.

In this Smithsonian Institution's own annual reports, you have evidence of very unusual skeletal remains many which were very large, which were the remains of giants. And where did those go? Yeah. Where did those go? You have Abraham Lincoln who's waxing poetically about Niagara Falls and a speech in which he says, the eyes of that ancient species of giants whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed upon Niagara, as ours do now.

That's wild. Abraham Lincoln.

“So is he referencing something that nobody would understand what he's saying?”

He's referencing something that everybody knew to be true. The bones of that ancient species of giants whose bones fill the mounds of America. So it is bizarre when you can talk to guys about UFOs all day long, you know, government types. But they won't say a thing about giants. Yeah, not only will they not say a thing they freak out, they get visibly, you know, concerned.

Yeah. It's so strange. Again, I would say that there's something, if I could use the term, Epsteinian. Epsteinian. About this whole thing with the giants and the ball in the, in the, in the occult.

Well, yeah, that's the, I mean, you want the deeper thread on the Epstein stuff. It's like, why is he showing up in email saying, I killed ponds from ponds in Fleshman. Like cold fusion, which is clean limitless energy. He's saying, you know, Robert Maxwell, glanes, you know, a super spy father who was, you know, buried on the Mount of all of, I believe, interesting. Well, there you go. Yeah.

“That's, you know, all these, basically, like, helped invent peer review, scientific peer review was also in charge of Nazi tech transfer, which is really, I think, an important fact.”

And then you have Epstein telling Bannon in an interview that he moved Zora Ranch to where it was, or he moved Zora Ranch. Because it was near retiring Los Alamos, physicist. And then he's showing up and he says killing cold fusion and he's obsessed with anti-gravity. So you end up like with the bones of the giants, or with UFOs, or with all these things. Because you end up with really, like, this weird, like, there's almost like a cult of science.

Like, like, because there's so much circumstantial evidence. There's so much, and then there's very little concrete evidence in the way of, like, really good high res photography.

And then there's always some modeling of the good, you know, when there is good evidence, we talked about photographs that have negatives.

We talked about the videos, we talked about implants. We've talked about material. Like, there are all these things, but there's always the muddying of the water. So you get into this really weird ontological territory where there is literally a faction on earth that wants to hide breakthrough technology. And wants to hide breakthroughs as far as our own ancient discovery, you know, like, understanding our past.

And wants to keep us in this state of amnesia. Are these the adeps of the mystery schools? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. But there's a lot of weird symbology on abstines. Not used to dental, that ball comes up. Ken and I, I mean, the, the, the Ken and I got the, as I said, the cover up of giants, cross over with the UFO stuff.

And right.

“And Crowley's another guy who had an alien being sort of seemed to show up.”

Yeah, the lamb thing. Lamb thing. He conjured. Yeah, so there's a lot of cross over here. Yeah.

Is there, is any of that because, like, you know, mostly, I associate the occult with, like, left hand path. That pursuit of power via paranormal channels in a way that is a Faustian bargain and kind of blows up in your face.

If you do it, but maybe it can first power for a temporary period of time.

And then I also think of, like, the founding fathers of America, all being free masons. I'm interested in the temple. I think they're interesting, you know. I don't think this is all, like, I'm, I, I find myself caught between the people who are like, It's all demonic.

And then these other people who are like, you know, obsessed with it for very dark battles. There's, I'm sure that within, within some of these, like, for example, free masons is a great example. Uh, most free mason certainly ones that I know are just good old boys. They don't know nothing about anything really.

That's, and now if you're free mason, you don't know shit. Yeah, yeah. So maybe back then, I'm sure it was much more intense.

“You know, I think Francis Bacon, who was, who was the author of the colonization scheme.”

I didn't know that.

And, um, he needs some stuff. He read like the new Atlantis.

He was, uh, either he was a rose accrucian. Yeah. And I think he was a, uh, acolyte of John D. Right. The famous magician at Elizabeth's, at Elizabeth's court.

Who was definitely rose accrucian. So I think that, yeah, you definitely have a call to activity. You have, you have certain acolytes in the occult. Who are very serious and who know things. And who have very devious dark aims.

Then you have other people who are involved for other reasons. Um, fraternities. You know, it was popular to be a member of some kind of fraternity back then. Because, you know, you didn't have cell phones and internet. And so if you're going to, if you're going to network with people,

you did it in a fraternity allowed to touch or you did it in like a church. And some people think that Jesus himself was part of this. So there's a Martin Luther King, junior, actually wrote a book. Or sorry, an essay called The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis. And then you have people like Brian Marescu, who writes, you know, the immortality key.

And Elaine Pagels is Princeton, religious studies professor. And a lot of these people sort of hint at the idea that the last supper was itself a mystery ritual that had some, you know, continuity between the L. Eucinian mystery rituals and whatever he under what. I have no idea if that's true.

I personally would reject any notion that Jesus was a, was a mystery, mystery school adept or went to India to learn from the, from the gurus or whatever. You know, there's lots of things people say. But do you think he had secret teachings?

“I think he was, I would say that Jesus is exactly who he claimed to be.”

He was the Messiah, the Son of God. That's what I would say. And that he differed from all of these other masters and gurus in that. He was endowed by the Holy Spirit to do what he did. And he rose from the grave, which distinguishes Jesus of Nazareth from everyone else.

So I would say, as a Christian, I believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God. But all this stuff around him, you know, you're needing to have ears to hear and having disciples and stuff. Okay. Initiates of something.

It is very interesting that Jesus, so here you have. According to the authors of the New Testament, Jesus is, he's the Son of God. And he is, he is the creator. That it's, um, a collage on 15 through 17, which reads he, the Son of God, Jesus. He is the image of the invisible God.

The first born over all creation.

Provide him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible. Whether thrones or demillions or principalities or powers, all things were created through him and through him and for him and in him all things consist. In fact, I miss the other part. And he is before all things and in him all things consist.

So that is a very unique, I mean, the person of Christ to the apostles was not just the great teacher. He was, he's the singularity. All things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things and in him all things consist. And this was the, this is what the apostles believed about Christ.

And Jesus, so here you have the author of creation who is walking among men. And he could have taught us about anything. He could have instructed us in, in electromagnetism, electricity. I mean, you know, the, the Jews were, were under the dominion of the Romans. Jesus could have conferred information to them.

Given them information, electricity and so forth, that would have allowed them to easily dominate.

Not just the Romans, but the entire world, right? You could have instantly upgraded their, their civilization. He didn't do that. In contrast to those gods who descended in the days of Jared, Jesus spoke in parables.

And he taught the people like they were little kids. And, and he, what, what his message was about the kingdom of heaven. And, and everything that he did was a demonstration that he was precisely who he said he was. Namely the son of God. And so I look at that and it's remarkable to me because the message of Christ was was was the,

the gospel of Christ is about, as I referred to earlier, is about redeeming the sons and daughters of Adam and reconciling them back to the Father.

“That's why the cross of Christ brings reconciliation,”

so that we can go back into the family.

That's what he was about.

He could have taught all, all manner of secret knowledge. And instead, he taught us about the kingdom of heaven and about his father. And, and the way to go back, to be reconciled to the Father, which was through him. So, I separate Christ from all of these other, you know,

I don't believe that Jesus was a mystery school adept. I think that, in fact, his message was in direct contradiction. Hmm. To the, the knowledge of the, the watchers, to the knowledge of the gods that was,

he's delivered to mankind. The people that like to lump him in with the mystery schools also say he hung out with the ascenes or whatever at the time. All of this is, of course, conjecture. Yeah, of course.

You know, we know that Jesus, that they fled to Egypt, and he was in Egypt for a while and they came back, and that Jesus was growing up with his parents, arguing with the teachers of the law on the synagogue. And so forth.

So, yeah, I would ascribe to, rather, I would not, I don't personally, subscribe to any of those alternate ideas about Christ.

“I believe Jesus is precisely who he said he was.”

And do you think, you know, with respect to, you know, this idea of the watchers in the Nephi Leam, he's of a totally different variety. He is just the son of God. Yes.

So, yes. You know, so much of what was happening in the life and this review of Nazareth was really kind of undoing what had been done, by the watchers. And reclaiming,

and reestablishing the kingdom of God. And so, there's a great book called "Reversing Herman" by the late scholar, Michael Heiser. He also read another great book called "The Unseen Realm,"

which is a really, really, I think, critical scholarly dissertation

on the life and ministry of Jesus as it relates to the things we were talking about earlier on. The watchers and everything that they had done. Heiser also really corroborates the Nephi Leam. Oh, yeah.

Yes. Like a real historical thing. Yes. And he's a guy who sort of throws porous cold water on the Zechariah's "Sichin" tent of.

Yeah, he had a website called "Sichin" as wrong. I think it was "Sichin" as wrong.com. The whole, yeah. In which he demonstrates how a lot of intelligence interpretations of the cylinder seals were not very good.

So, another point in favor of giants is a biblical scholar. He's pretty serious in deep-unking other people who are, you know, considered more quackier, whatever, seems to corroborate the giants. Yeah, I mean, Heiser would have affirmed and did that the, the anarchy entailed that we talked about earlier,

that the idea of the gods, the watchers descending to the earth and copulating with him and when we're in pro-generating that hybrid race of giants, that that formed, that the substrate of human, a rather Hebrew cosmology, that that was part and parcel to the historical narrative

of the Hebrews. When they look back into the anti-dolubian world, there's a lot of other scholars too, who acknowledge that. Most scholars acknowledge that for sure today.

So it's, but what I was saying earlier was, you know, to kind of circle back to the beginning, we were talking about sort of this larger biblical context into which you can accommodate the UFO phenomenon, reminding us of Anna Paulina's words, you know,

“look at the book of Enoch, if you want to understand the phenomenon.”

She references that in the context of interdimensional beings. I don't know whether or not these were interdimension, I don't even know what interdimensional really means. That's hilarious when people say, "Oh, it's interdimensional," or they say, "It's spiritual."

It means nothing. It means nothing.

It means, it means movie reference.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When it boils down. Or it means it's a, their political polonic on what it is. So often, if somebody says it's spiritual, they're kind of saying it's demonic.

Yes. With certain Christian broadcasts or some of whom I'm a huge fan of. But they'll say they'll use this line.

“So I think it's spiritually, it's kind of dark.”

And then they won't like, they won't touch it. And it's like, "Okay, fine." But like, what is an angel? What is a demon? Precisely.

Like, we should try to investigate this. Exactly. So if you're going to invoke interdimensionality, for example, as you, I'm sure well know, there isn't like one fairy in physics

that describes extra dimensions. There's a suite of theories. Yeah. And they're not the same. You know, like multiverse, which is a different

universes with different physical properties. Right? So in the multiverse, you have just this endless infinite.

Infinite function, never collapses.

Yeah. Like the bubbles in a glass of bear. Yeah. Constantly, you knew universes being created. And each universe in multiverse has different physical properties.

And the reason why multiverse came into existence

“is because physicists, I think, finally realize that you can't get”

around a creator, like an intelligent creator of the universe. And so the circumvent that idea, they created the multiverse theory, which is just like random, spontaneous, universes are going, are being created all the time. Because our universe is finally tuned.

Clearly, our universe is finally tuned. I mean, it is precisely tuned. And if any one of the constituents of our universe was not exactly the way it is, you couldn't have light. Yeah.

The anthropic principle. The anthropic principle.

So the universe is clearly finally tuned for life.

And that points very clearly to a creator and a purpose for the universe. And so to circumvent that, you just make it so the universe just happens to have these qualities. Because universes are being, there's a multitude of universe of universes being created all the time.

It's an infinite number of universes. And so it's just like rolling the dice. Yeah. And we happen to live in the one that just, the Goldilocks universe. Where everything is so finely tuned.

That was a circumvention of the reality that the universe had a beginning, and it was finally tuned so that it could support life and be the way it is. And so multiverse is each one of these universes and multiverse has different physical properties.

And so what you see like, there's multiverse. And then there's string theory, super string theory, which super string theory posis that there's 11, there's 11 dimensions. Right? And there's different aspects of string theory that

pos it more. But there's at least 11 dimensions. But those are like inaccessible dimensions. Those are like some atomic dimensions. And those dimensions don't give you access to another universe,

like multiverse, they just open, it opens up another facet of this universe. Right? And then you have the hyper spatial theory of the universe, which is actually quite similar to that.

You have the alternative worlds theory. These are all different scientific theories. So what people do is they, they just say, interdimensional, and they invoke them all, like a Hodgepodge.

And what they're doing is they're invoking a Marvel movie. Yeah. So, and this is why when people say,

“well, I think it's interdimensional, just like you,”

my follow-up question is, what does that mean? Where are they coming from? Right? Because you can have, let's say, a portal open up in this guy and sausage fly out of it.

Like, my friend saw this actually happen. And then a portal closes, right? And when a portal was open, he could see a different atmosphere on the other side inside of the portal. Well, okay, so let's assume that story is true.

And if we analyze this, we can say, okay, this is a portal. What's on the other side? Is it a different universe? Is it like some sort of different multiverse? Or is it a different part of planet Earth?

Or is it a different planet? Right? And then, so it doesn't mean what I'm trying to say, is just because you see a portal open up in the sky and flying saucers come out of it.

Does it mean that those saucers are interdimensional or are by nature interdimensional? It doesn't, it doesn't follow that those are interdimensional beings. In fact, there are, it's just as likely, if not more likely, that what you're witnessing is what's called a Einstein Rosenbridge

and it's connecting two parts of either somewhere on the Earth or in the known universe or in our universe, rather. And so what you're getting is vehicles that are coming from some other part of the universe or some other part of the, or the inner Earth or something like that,

it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily lend itself to inter-dimensionality. And I think there's a lot of confusion there. I really do.

I just don't think it, nobody really can define it, probably.

Yeah, I agree. No, it's, they, when they say inter-dimensional, they just mean it's not extraterrestrial. Exactly. That's not based on any sort of physics.

Exactly. So, let me ask you, I've been one of the ask you. What? So, based on all of your research. Yeah.

Everybody you've interviewed, everything you know about this phenomenon. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think is the most likely? And I know you're probably not going to commit to anything.

“But what do you think is the most likely explanation?”

Based on all the crash retrieval material. Based on the clear nuts and bolts, physicality of at least part of this phenomenon. Yes.

Based on all of the testimonies that you've heard personally.

I struggle. I can, I can give you like very viable local theories around antigravity and propulsion, and then maybe even an interesting sort of physics theory. As to like who the beings are, where they're from. I think they're a multiple phenomenon play.

So, here's, here's, are, would be my sort of more multifaceted, very speculative. Weekly held answer there. I think there is some antideoluvian remnants that are that have survived. Some sort of cataclysm and exist in underwater bases, specifically oceans.

Which faction are you referencing here? When you think about that, who are you thinking about? It could be, I mean, you're now kind of updating my thought process on this baby being, you know, fallen angels. I don't know.

What are you seeing in your head like Nordics? So you seeing great aliens? Oh, I see, as far as I think that's true. Yeah, this driver's looking. What the being looks like?

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's tricky. Okay, so would you agree based on your, uh, based on your research

“that the three factions that are commonly cited are real?”

Nordics, reptilians, and-- The graves, including the insect and the mantis being just the grail. I think they're all real. And then where it gets so confusing is, like, if cases like Travis Walton, where they're working together and conjunction.

And other cases like that in the induction material. There you go. So, if I had to guess, I think usually in the abductions like the tall graves are overseeing the small graves.

And then the Nordics are sort of-- They seem like even higher on the pecking order. Yeah. And so the Nordics somehow seem like really-- I don't know.

Somehow important as far as how the hierarchy works. And then mantids also feel above just the graves. I don't know how the Nordics and the mantids would relate to each other. But, uh, yeah, what would you-- It's very intriguing.

I think it's apparent that the mantis, the insectilins, as Jacob's denominates them, are clearly in charge of the graves.

“Like they are definitely in charge of the little graves.”

So they're managing the abduction program, I wouldn't say. At least on some level. Maybe there's somebody above them, right? Yeah. But they're definitely managing like the procedures and the graves.

Yeah. That seems to be apparent to me. Um, here's an interesting anecdote. So in, in Carla Turner's book, um, taken. Yeah.

She features the abduction source of the number of women. And one of these ladies, after being abducted by Grace, was abducted, suffered a-- Endured in my lab abduction. She was taken forcibly from her husband, military personnel.

She brought onto a base. And it was a very violent episode. And she remembers seeing-- I hope I'm getting this right. She remembers seeing Nordics on the base.

And she had an interaction with one. Like she was laying in a bed. Sometimes they were like the scientists and the human scientists were extracting the implants and stuff. And interrogating her and trying to figure out what the graves were doing.

It was always about trying to figure out the graves were doing.

But then she had this-- There's this weird story with one of these women where there was a Nordics. She was interacting with a Nordic on one of these bases. And she asked the Nordic if they were involved with the graves.

And the reply of the Nordic was, by degrees. That was his reply. What does that mean? What does that mean? I don't know.

But this is interesting. You're bringing this up because this would also be my mental model on the sort of these covert space initiatives involving legacy reverse engineering programs is that we're actually working in conjunction with the beings themselves.

Yes. And that story you just told is one of a variety of the beings being on these bases. And if you think about, it's so strange. It's like you have MK Ultra.

You have exotic propulsion. You have free energy. You have all these things. Where it seems like there's a confluence or convergence of like, I'm just human science initiatives.

start to communicate with aliens or get into weird aliens.

Like the inventors of the radio.

“So Tesla and Markone claimed alien communication.”

Puhara, she was like the pioneer of MK Ultra. The old birth was Herman Oberth. He was saying that rocketry was in spite of was, you know, von Braun was inspired by the beings and Oberth gives a whole lecture on UFOs.

So you have people who are pioneers of these scientists, specifically science, which is the forefront of human knowledge. And so again, going back to the kind of fallen angel, the rebel angel, which gives the knowledge. So these people who are at the front of all of those things

seem to be interfacing. Thomas Townsend Brown, you could think of his anti-gravity stuff as an explanation away from the extraterrestrial hypothesis. And he got into his details of his life, and he's had, you know,

literally close encounters of the third kind.

And he says he's communicating with space brothers. And so yeah, it's as deep as you got. It's like the three body problems. It's this tiny science fiction novel where they, the interface between the people who are stealing fire

from the gods, you know, these promethian figures, these kind of open-himer style figures, they seem to be interfacing with these beings, most. And so that seems significant. And then the nuclear thing seems significant

because the nuclear thing is kind of the Archimedes lever, both for cataclysm, but also nuclear is, if you take finance, like the room at the bottom, then, you know, the fact that we're splitting an atom,

“seems somehow really important for our root access”

to reality itself. There's probably an ambient, I mean, there is the human resonance, ambient electromagnetic radiation that helps life grow. And so like interfering with that, they would obviously, you know, interfere with us,

interfering with that. And so there are all these things that I, you know, I have a feel like I have a good grasp of there. And then on the, I don't know how the beings and how they work together and then which, you know, it's like when people

commune with God and do these sort of cobalistic protocols of which C5 is a variation, and I'm not the biggest career fan, but like, you know, I do think there's actually something to do with something. Somebody's making contact with something.

Somebody's making contact with something. And I don't know if that's, that's probably not the same thing as what's showing up at our nuclear site, is that the same thing is what's showing up at, you know, under the oceans, like all of these might be different things.

I don't know. Have you, have you, have you had discussions with any of the psionic assets? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've talked to some of those guys, and I wondered what the psionic stuff. I wondered if there was a connection between these psionic assets

and alien abduction. And the reason why I wonder that is because one thing that seems apparent is abductees are are continually interlaced with the phenomena. In other words, the grays know their thoughts, even from a distance. And a good illustration of this is there's been women who have had

a, you know, I've had a zygote implanted, it's grown into a fetus in their womb, and they realize that they're pregnant. They go to their gynecologist, they realize that they're pregnant. You know, what's crazy is that sometimes these women are adults. And, but the pregnancy is confirmed, and they contemplate

an abortion, just contemplate an abortion, or they're talking on the phone to somebody about it, the grays come and get the fetus. They come and get it. And so the women will go in for the abortion, and they'll do the ultrasound or whatever before gone. You know, this is the missing fetus syndrome.

Gone. Why? Because the grays took it, because they didn't want the, they didn't want the fetus to be retrieved by the doctor or boarded, so they came and got it. They re-abducted her, and they

“took it out. So, and there's other such stories that I think”

indicate that perhaps through the implants, but also because the grays are, are potently telepathic, that there's, there's a connection established between the grey and the abductee. So, if you are, this is just my theory. And by the way, I, I posited this theory to some of the scientists, guys,

said, so if you are an abductee, and you, you're signaling something, you're broadcasting, maybe because, you know, you're implanted, or just telepathically, whatever, brain waves, you're broadcasting something. This is the way I like to think of this. I have a friend who was a rancher in Australia, and it was,

you know, always really hot, and he had a lot of cattle out there.

tidy, whiteies and, I know, his computer, and he didn't want to

get up and go see if there was a problem with his cows. He'd hear, like, he'd hear some commotion out there, and he could see him on video. And so, rather than getting up and going out there, he would get a drone. He'd just put his drone up in the air, and he'd fly his drone over there, and kind of

check out what's going on. And one of them get bit by a snake or something, right? So he didn't have to get up and go

“out there. I almost wonder if that's what's going on with some”

of these psionic people. They're broadcasting something, and then an automated response shows up, like Orbs, often will show up, or sometimes craft, sometimes they can get the craft to land. I almost wonder is because they're intrinsically interlaced with the phenomenon. If it's almost like just

sitting on a broadcast, and the automated response comes kind of just like the drone checking on the cattle. No, that would make sense. It really would, because if you look at, like, you know, sky watcher, which seemed like this. Jake Barbara. Yeah, exactly. Almost externalization of

what was happening on the inside, and maybe it got botched someone. I don't know what ended up happening with it, but it was that you had this mechanical dog whistle, and then you had this human dog whistle. And so I do think it was this thing where you could predictably, and then you hear other

stories of the reverse engineering program involving, like, the only way to fly the craft is with your mind. So that's seen significant as well. Yeah, there's definitely a mind machine interface involved. I think that's clear. I don't know what you think about those ar's testimony personally.

I believe it's true. I do too. I think I believe it's true. And then I also think they were, you know, they were messing with him, and probably maybe trying to get certain

“things out. And that's what ran a mock. The initial”

briefing that he got, I'm not sure how much of that was true. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of passage to it. You have a Bible, I think you called it. Yeah. Whatever it was, the material that they had him read before he began to work in the project. Yeah.

Yeah. That to me seems like, like, maybe some manipulation to try and, you know, that only was throw some confusion into the mix. Because they don't ever want any of these guys putting too many of the pieces together. Yeah. They just want them to be laser focused on

one aspect of it. And you want to give them uniquely false details. So if there is a leak, you know, precisely,

you know, yeah. So you always got, and in those are

actually he thinks that that is, he says that. He's a possibility. Yeah. So I actually asked somebody about these guys and, well, I proposed this idea to them. And they were very receptive to it. In fact, I was told, we know for a fact that some of our assets are abductees.

So there's no question that that's a component of this.

“That's why they actually conceded that. Yeah.”

That might be why these people can kind of sum in UFOs is because they're already interlaced with the phenomenon and you're broadcasting and there's just an automated response. You know, I hate to put it in such crude terms, you know, where the cattle and the drone show up. Right.

And so I think there's something to that. Well, is there, is there, but, or, I mean, that's the somewhat negative framing. What if, you know, the Enoch goes up and, you know, we're walks with God. And you have, you know, Zekeel, maybe it's a dream like thing, but like he sort of walks

with God. There are people who believe in this sort of cobbleistic story and they'll say Jesus in the book of Acts going up on the cloud as an example of this and maybe they're taking liberties and you can, you know, correct them if they're wrong. But like, what if the craft showing up is like to

commune with or take them somewhere and show them something beautiful and then they come back down? Well, I mean, okay, let me give you an example here. Yeah, I got to go back to and I'm going to give you two examples.

First one is a positive encounter. Okay.

So I have a good friend of mine. And he's gone publicly. He's gone publicly with this. So I'll just say his name is Gary Sterman, wonderful man, older gentleman. And he's a, he's a great Bible teacher. Just really, really knowledgeable. He's dedicated

to life, his life to 18 is eight. He's now just a phenomenal Bible teacher. And a really good friend of mine. And he told me story one time that threw me for a loop years ago. And it sort of got me. It sort of dislodged me from from me, the sort of the

traditional position where you're not really thinking about UFOs and a biblical context. It this sort of, this is, as I like to say, rearrange the theological furniture in my brain a little bit. He had an encounter and I'm going to get some of these

details wrong. But Gary's told this story several times, including one of our conferences through legend conferences years ago. But he was, I don't remember the year. And he comes from a family, the stairmen family. They, an aircraft family. And members of the stairmen family

They've been in the programs. Let's just say that.

And so that was the environment that Gary grew up. And, and so he was, he was, when trying to get the details right here, he was delivering an aircraft a prop plane. I think he was flying from, I want to say Lubbock,

“Texas to Dallas. I think I don't remember.”

And he was delivering this plane. And so at the time, he just wanted to be a pilot. He wanted to just do what his family did. And he was on this routine business situation where he's delivering this aircraft.

And he gets up in the air and he's flying. And he's a young guy in this context. And he's flying along. And then suddenly, the, the electrical components went out on his craft. And he realized he's in trouble.

Right? He's, he's electrical components went out of his craft.

And he knows he's in trouble.

So I think, I forget what he did to try and manage the situation. But he knew he could be, you could have a real problem here. And I think what he was going to do was try and turn off the electrical components and then turn them back on when he was coming closer. So he had to land, I don't remember.

But he was in trouble. And I think he was flying a sess now. And as he's flying along with this problem, serious problem.

“He looks off, I think he looks off his left wing.”

And he sees this shiny object flying out there in the distance. I think he said like a mile away. I hope I'm not butchering this story. I'm getting the fundamentals right. I hope I'm not butchering the details.

He sees this shiny object flying a mile away. And thought it's just another aircraft out there. And then at some point, he hears a voice. He hears a voice.

That said, and he said, it was comical. The voice said, if you look to your left, you'll see a UFO. And it was like, he said it was like a tour guide voice. It was comical.

And he looks to the left again. And this craft now is right close to him. And it's a walnut shape craft. He got a good long look at it. It's right off his left wing.

And it's flying perpendicular to him. And it's just beautiful shining craft. Just the way he describes it. It's had these colors emanating off of it. The silver, the typical silver craft.

No rivets, no seams. The typical UFO. And he said that he couldn't see the beings inside of it. But he felt them. He felt like this intense fraternity like this fraternal affection.

Like these beings were familiar with him. And were there to look out, look out for him. And that craft stayed with him.

And guided, like basically, it accompanied him

for the rest of the flight. Until he got to the airport. And then it just hovered up there. And he landed successfully. Now the crazy thing is he gained something.

I think he gained like three hours. Because he was in close proximity with this craft. And he ended up arriving really late. And he didn't have the fuel for the amount of time that he was up in the air. He didn't have the fuel.

And the people who was delivering the aircraft who were freaking out on him. And in addition, he told them there was a problem with the aircraft. So they took the aircraft to the mechanic to take a look at it. And the next day Gary came back and talked to him. And I don't remember what the issue was.

But he should have been dead. Like this, this, whatever the issue was, the mechanics that I don't know how you landed this. You don't, you don't land a plane like this. He should have been dead. So Gary, here's a really important facet of this story.

So when Gary took off that day in the Sessna, his trajectory on his life was to be a pilot. By the time he landed, he came back in the air. So the encounter with this craft completely changed the trajectory of his life. And he became, he, he devoted himself to learning and teaching the Bible.

Because because of that encounter.

“So I asked Gary, well, what do you think was in that craft?”

Who do you think was in that craft? Because I think he was in that craft. Because I think he was in that craft. And I think he was in that craft. And I think he was in that craft.

I think he was in that craft. And I think he was in that craft. Because I think was in that craft. Because I obviously saved his life. And his answer?

Angels. We're in that craft. So, but that's a true story. And Gary is a wonderful man.

And that, that encounter changed his life forever.

“So that's why it's established in the beginning.”

That, you know, you can't just label. There's no, if you try and be overly simplistic with this phenomenon, you're going to get it wrong. Yeah, yeah. It's highly complex.

And I always tell people embrace the complexity.

If you're trying to squeeze it into one thing, you're going to be wrong. Because the universe is vast for one thing. If you're coming from a Christian perspective, you cannot hope to constrain the mind of the maker that you don't even comprehend.

You can't say that that God's only created XYZ. And that's it. We have no idea what's out there. We have no idea. And I don't do that.

I don't restrain the mind of a being that I cannot hope to comprehend the mind being the maker himself. So, I think that you have a few things happening out there. You have, as I said in the beginning, you have some of the, what we see are the non-human good guys.

Yeah, the, the, the faction that the Bible describes as angels.

Some of them are are from the same faction, but the bad guys.

The ones that we would describe today's quote unquote fallen angels. And then you have a host of other things in the game. That maybe we have no idea what the heck they are where they come from. And then the, the weirdest part of the whole phenomenon, as it's often feels like it mirrors somebody's internal state.

So, when they do these sort of, you know, side, you know, attempts to call the craft. I hate to use the word something, because that inherently sounds kind of dark. Yeah. It feels like the emotions that get amplified.

It's almost like in a psychedelic trip where if you go in with a lot of ego, you have a lot of like pain and hardship kind of excavated in your humbled. Like it feels like that. You, you are, yeah, I, the way that these guys have described it to me is there's, it's, it's actually in some cases it's unbearable.

Right. And they have to be severed. They can't take it. That's why there's, you know, I think, Well, I think a lot of the legacy program, a lot of these guys have sundowners,

syndrome. Yeah, they literally use their mind. That's right. Yeah, it's unbearable. So they have to be careful because guys can go crazy.

They, they establish a connection and whatever's happening. There is so intense that it's almost like sticking your finger in an electrical socket. You know, at some point you're going to get fried and that they have to cut themselves off. Or somebody has to sort of remove them from that state. And it can be extremely traumatizing.

I know that because the guys have told me themselves. It can be extremely traumatizing. Because you're, you're interfacing with number one something we don't understand.

“I think that's the first, that's how we start it off this conversation.”

We're interfacing with something we can't control. Yeah. We don't understand. That's much smarter than we are, and probably way older. Yeah.

That's the baseline interaction. Those are the, those, that's the, our baseline scenario when we interact with this stuff. So if you're, if you're interacting, let's say, psychically, synonically with this, with this phenomenon, you may, because they can, they can control the craft sometimes.

And not all these craft have anybody, have anything inside of them. You know, some of these things are just like, you know, drone for lack of a better work. And, and because the, the mechanism is a mind machine interface, they can actually control some of this.

A grab, grab hold of it so to speak. And sometimes there's, they'll grab hold of something. And somebody else shows up to break that connection, right? And when that somebody else shows up, there's like this intense personality that's introduced into that scenario.

Like, another intelligence is suddenly introduced in that scenario. And it's overpowering. It's, it's overpowering because their capabilities are much stronger than ours. We're like toddlers.

I always warn people, like when you interact with this stuff,

it's equivalent, I think it's an, an, an, an analogy. It's like a two year old interacting with a nuclear physicist. Pray. Right? That's what it's like.

Yeah. Where are the two year old? Yeah. We can kind of communicate. We can, you know, say, we're hungry, we're thirsty, whatever.

But we're never ever going to outsmart these people. Yep. We're always going to be manipulated by them for sure. So we're always at a disadvantage. And this is why there's a prohibition of contact in the biblical,

in, in the Bible.

“That's why divination, there's a prohibition against divination.”

Because divination is essentially seeking information from other, let's just be very broad on our terminology here. From other nonhuman intelligences aside from Yahweh, aside from God.

Because you're clearly very Christian. But you also have an intense interest in this. So how do you reconcile your, almost, you know, you think of this whole thing. It's like this forbidden truth, you know?

And it's like this, this kind of constant desire for that, with, you know, your adherence to the Bible and Jesus. Well, it's a, I wouldn't say it's forbidden. The truth of it, I wouldn't say it's forbidden.

“I would say that it's important for Christians to have a very well-developed paradigm.”

That can accommodate things without, without busting it,

shattering it into a million pieces.

So an elastic paradigm. So the way that I approach this is, I come at this entire thing from a Christo-centric perspective. So what I mean by that is traditionally, the traditional Christian worldview is anthropocentric,

which I call the anthropocentric perspective in birthright. And in the, from the anthropocentric perspective, and when I say traditional, I mean the traditional Protestant Catholic Orthodox view. Man kind is at the center of all things. We are at the center of all things.

And, and the earth is at the center of all things. Not necessarily the center of the universe, but like the center of everything happening.

I mean not, not the center of the solar system in that sense,

even though that's the way that, you know, these to think in centuries ago. I mean like in terms of conceptually speaking, mankind is at the center of everything. And if you think of it like as a, as a wheel,

like a wagon wheel, you have the hub and then you have the spokes. From the anthropocentric perspective, mankind is the hub. And everything that's happening in the universe is revolving around him. He is the center of attention in all things. And that's sort of traditionally been the view.

And that's people of a hard time then contemplating,

“could there be other extraterrestrial intelligences?”

Well, how can that be? How does that fit into this? Our, our wagon wheel here with mankind at the center, and everything focusing on mankind? Well, I don't have, that's not my perspective.

In fact, I would say that's not the biblical perspective. The biblical perspective is an anthropocentric, a rather a Christosentric perspective of the universe. So you remove mankind from the center of that wheel from the hub, and you place Christ at the center, right?

And you make us one of the spokes of that wheel. Now everything revolves around him, the son of God, that collagens one of 15 through 17 that I cited earlier, that he is the center of all things. All things were created through him and for him.

And he is before all things and in him all things consist. That's the, that's the Christosentric perspective. So he's the main character. He's the primary protagonist. We are ancillary characters in his story.

Everything, the universe itself was created for him. So once you, once you sort of disassociate that you disassociate the universe, the purpose of the universe from mankind. That's an important thing. You disassociate the purpose of the universe from mankind.

We're not the purpose of the universe anymore. Christ is the purpose of the universe. It's his story, it's his universe, everything revolves around him. Then that opens up a much larger, much more extensive cosmology. Because he's now at the center of this thing.

I'm a spoken that wheel, right? Along with how many other who knows what we know that the sons of God exist. We other non-human which we went through earlier, pre-exist us. They're, they are pre-eminent in regard to their nature. It's a great man, kind of it's great to be a little lower than the heavenly beings, so we have non-human intelligence already in the game.

Bibliically speaking, they're part of the story, but the story doesn't revolve around them and it doesn't revolve around us. It revolves around the central figure, the son of God, who sits at the center of this entire thing. So when you do that, you can comfortably begin to accommodate things into a biblical worldview. And it doesn't matter anymore. Like it doesn't change, for example, the gospel of Christ.

Well, if it turns out that there are, let's say, let's say that great aliens are from Zeta, particularly. That doesn't do violence to my theological perspective at all. Christ is still at the center of the universe. The gospel of Christ is still true. And people often raise the contention, well, wait a minute.

If you have extra thresholds, doesn't that mean therefore that Jesus would have had to go and die for all the different alien factions on the different planets,

“or that they all had to have their own version of Jesus?”

The Bible already answers that question.

And the answer is no, because it says he did not help the angels.

He didn't do what he did for mankind.

“He didn't provide a way of reconciliation for the angels like he did for us.”

And the angels are non-human intelligence who are already in the game. These are already extraterrestrial beings. They're already in the picture. Biblically speaking, so just adding some more intelligent beings into that equation doesn't change anything. Biblically speaking. Have you ever read CS Lewis's space trilogy?

No. And everyone is shocked when I say that. I'm shocked. You know, I grew up on the Chronicles of Narnie when I was a kid when I was in grade school. And elementary school.

I grew up, I mean, I just devoured the Chronicles of Narnie. I just read through the whole seven books and then started over the beginning. Read through them again. And I never cared about.

I never wanted to read the space stuff.

Yeah. But everybody always tells me, man, you got to read the space truth. Yeah.

“Well, because I think of him as another Christian thinker who's, you know, very, very impressive.”

Like, it really amazing. Very philosophical. Very philosophical and but then also has this cosmology and writes about this sort of space war and it's very interesting. But I feel like I'm in court with CS Lewis even though I've never read it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. This is probably sacrilegious after the last 30 minutes of conversation. We just had about religion. But I need to hear this story about the Peruvian face pillars.

Oh, my God. It's so gnarly.

Back in 2023, in the summer of 2023,

specifically in the month of June and July. There were there were these series of videos that hit social media and just went viral. And they featured some indigenous people out in the Peruvian Amazon, who were encountering this phenomena. And there was something terrifying happening to them and they were running around at night,

screaming, yelling, discharging their firearms into the jungle. And then in interviews, these individuals, these various villages. But particularly this, particularly at the center of this was this village called San Antonio de Bintu yaco. And individuals in these videos were being interviewed. And they were saying that they were being attacked by aliens.

Some said aliens, others said Belacadas, which translates to face pillars. And obviously something very traumatic was happening. It wasn't just happening in San Antonio de Bintu yaco was happening in other villages as well. Multiple villages were being affected. There were reports of people who were being recovered bodies,

cadavers that were being recovered without their faces or faces partially surgically removed. And it's just spread like wildfire on social media. And it turns out that, you know, I lived in Peruvian for 10 years and I cut my teeth in the Amazon. I speak, the particular dialect they speak up. They speak Spanish, but they speak dialect to Spanish that they called Chadapa,

which it mixes in some catch-wing words. And that's the kind of Spanish. It's kind of like heubilly Spanish actually. So, and it was an happening in an area of the Peruvian Amazon that I'm quite familiar with. Roughly in the region of Altunanai was a lot of this was unfolding.

So people were contacting me and I was watching all of this happen on social media. I made a couple of videos about it with my friend Doug Thornton. And we were talking about the phenomenon just sort of tracking it. People were sending me emails and tagging me on social media. Begging me to go to Peru.

Luckily for me, I didn't have my passport at the time. I had sent my passport away to renew it. And it sort of gave me an out because I really didn't feel like going. And I actually had planned to trip with my son, my oldest son, to Guatemala. And I was not going to sacrifice that trip with my son.

So I didn't really want to travel before that. And I honestly didn't just didn't want to go.

“And people were begging me to go, you need to go up there.”

Nobody was going. I kept waiting for somebody to go. Nobody was going. There were some interviews with some of the villagers in the city of Eqitos. But nobody went to the village except two provincial policemen with an AVS score.

They went to the village because the villagers were begging. The Navy to come protect them. They were begging the Navy. They were making these videos where they're all holding signs. Let's say we're under attack.

Please help us. They were begging the Navy. These people were clearly not just from San Antonio. They've been through Yaku. Various villages in the region, right?

The Altonanai, generally speaking. And so these policemen went there and did what I described as a piss porn investigation. And they interviewed some of the people, some of the villagers.

there's an attempted abduction of Italia.

“And they concluded, these police officers concluded,”

not based on the testimony of the villagers. They concluded that the villagers were being assaulted by river miners with jetpack technology. Now, if you know anything about river miners, and you've spent time in the Amazon jungle, you know that that narrative is absurd. Case closed.

It's absurd. And everybody ran with it. The Peruvian media was all over this thing. Took it very seriously until the jetpack miner narrative went out. And then everybody bought it, hook line and sinker, everybody.

The Peruvian press, the American press. I even watched a segment on News Nation where they were like joking around like, "Oh, those pesky miners would jetpacks." What? Well, it's those guys.

Obviously, they're trying to drive the villagers off their land. And it was absurd. Who owns jetpacks? Let alone miners. Okay.

Who's absurd. That's absurd.

“None of these people who were saying this had ever encountered a Peruvian river miner.”

And they don't, they certainly don't have jetpacks. They're not Tony Stark. They're, no. They dump a bunch of mercury in the water, kill everything, and then judge the bottom on these, on these rusted out boats.

Yeah. I can barely, you know, move. And they don't have any money. And the whole thing was absurd. It was absurd.

So at that point I thought, okay. I gotta go. Because this is bull crap. It's not jetpack miners. So my, my passport came back.

And I didn't have any more excuses. So I said, all right, I'm gonna, I had a little window of time. Like a week, right up against my, my Guadamala trip with my son.

“And so I tagged my friend Doug Thornton, asked him if he'd go with me.”

And Doug was, uh, was an infantry marine and, uh, a DHS, uh, a special operator. So, um, uh, Doug is a great guy to go with. And so, uh, I organized this, this expedition. I, uh, I chartered a riverboat.

And I made contact with the village first.

And I want to thank, um, the ufologist Ronnie Vernet, Brazilian ufologist. He put me in contact with the village. And, uh, in fact, with the kid that had the young man that had filmed some of these, the footage that went viral, his name was Christian.

He was the schoolteacher. And I got in contact with Christian and Christian and I began a dialogue. And, and, uh, what I did was he wanted me to record a message on, uh, what's at, in regard to my intentions. And I want to come to this investigation.

And, and, and he played that recording to the, the up of the chief of the village and his elders. And then in response, I got an official invitation to go from the up of him. And, uh, I was told that, uh, I was told that the villagers were in dire straits that, uh, if there was any way I could help, that would be great also.

Like, I'm, I'm free to come and do whatever investigation I want. But also, you know, they're, they're running out of medicine and stuff like that. So, uh, I contacted some, um, associates of mine specifically, some of the men from conduit church. Some of these awesome dudes over there who, who wanted to help me fund this thing.

Because I wanted to, I, now, wanted to sort of go on, um, an aid mission, too, to re-supply them, medical supplies and stuff. And we did. So, we went to San Antonio, the, uh, paint the Yaku on this chartered riverboat. By the way, all of this is in a YouTube video on my YouTube channel.

And we, we brought supplies, the opu, and some of the guys from the village met us and he ketos and went up, like escorted us up the river. Took a couple days to get up the river. Um, you go up the alto and an eye and then you go up the, you go up the an eye river and then you go up the Pintiyaku from there.

And when I arrived to the village, I was, I'd been in a lot of these villages, you know, Peru. And this is the first time I was greeted by, you know, a small army of men with loaded shotguns. And they were there, cheerfully receiving us, but they were armed, all of them were armed.

And this is how they were always, for instance, the incursions have been happening.

They were doing patrols. The men were not sleeping at night. They were, they were sleeping during the day and then patrolling at night. And they hadn't been going out to their farms and, and, and they, they were, it was just, um, they were traumatized. So we unloaded all the, all of the provisions that we brought them.

We also brought them in addition to food and medical supplies. We brought them, um, some technology. We brought them some night vision goggles with recording capabilities, so that they could see and record the phenomenon. We brought them a thermal binoculars.

We brought them, um, high powered flashlights. And we brought them really good radios. So that, you know, so that they could better protect their village.

Navy jungle commandos to go with me, uh, proving guys.

“And so, um, we disembarked and were greeted by these villagers.”

And they brought me into their tombo, which is their like their meeting place. Government have built this thing there. This was the, essentially, the Pintu Yakuza. It's the key to people. And they're a very old, uh, community.

They're very old, one of the oldest communities in the region. And this is sort of one of their last outposts. And this is one of the last, it is like the last outpost of civilization before, just a vast, untracked wilderness, Amazon jungle. So the government had put a, uh, communications outpost there,

which means the villagers had internet. They had satellite internet. So these, when I say villagers, they're not people like and, you know, grass skirts with blow, with blow guns. They're, they're more modernized villagers and they all have cell phones.

You know, they watch Marvel movies and stuff sitting in the tombo at night. So, um, they received us very enthusiastically. They did a traditional E.K.2 dance for us. It was really cool. Um, and then we began our investigation in earnest.

And, um, I started to, to go around with the opu, the chief, to go to the different areas where they had encountered the phenomenon and to interview people. And, um, I'm trying to encapsulate this. So the first thing I, I came to understand was a lot of people in the village had encountered this phenomenon. It wasn't like one or two people.

A lot of them had seen the phenomenon. And they were, many of them were traumatized. So, like a lot of PTSD. And basically what they were encountering was the way that these incursions would begin was,

it'd be nighttime, always at nighttime, always after dark.

And they would see like too many flying saucers hovering in the air, right? Just these little saucers with a series of lights around the bottom.

“And that's how they knew the incursion was about to happen.”

And then these two little saucers would go flying to the jungle and then land. And then shortly thereafter, they would see two individuals sneaking into the village. And these individuals would be dressed head to foot and black armored body suits with helmets. They were described as very much like the green goblin from the Spider-Man movie. Yeah.

But the, you know, because he had that helmet, but he had like kind of the almond shaped eyes, the yellow almond shaped eyes. And he uses the craft. Flies on the craft. Yeah.

So that's what they were saying. It's like the green goblin. But without like the big, you know, grin. So they don't stand on the craft. They would, yeah.

Yeah. And so what the little flying saucer things that they saw turned out to be circular hoverboards. And, and these guys were dressed in black armored body suits. And their eyes, they had these almond shaped tinted eye lenses. And their helmets.

“Some said yellow, some said green night vision.”

I don't know. And, and they were very tall. Everyone said they were taller than me. I'm 61. And on some people, I'd go like this tall.

This tall, this tall. And it's not really like this tall. Like, you know, seven, seven and a half feet tall or whatever.

So basically, you know, calculating some exaggeration in there.

You know, they were probably six and a half seven feet tall. Conservatively, based on what the villagers told me. So, the, these individuals, they shot some of them at point blank range with shotguns. 16 gauge, bird shot. It had no effect.

They were literally here. They'd be dinking off of their armor. And, and one guy said he was confronted. One of these guys confronted him. Well, he confronted one of these salants at night.

And this particular guy was dressed in a silver suit. And he was so adamant. He's like, I know all the other people are saying black. But what I saw, the guy was silver head to foot. And he said, I shot him at point blank range with shotgun.

And in the, in the blast, the shotgun. He could hear that the, the BBs dink off the armor. And it knocked the guy back on his butt. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him.

And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him.

And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him.

And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him.

And he said, I saw him. And he said, I saw him. But one of the villagers said that he saw, I want a larger disk hovering in the sky. He put his flashlight on it.

And he saw two guys. He's a silhouette of two of these armored guys together. Both of them on one of, on one circular disk.

And they're like surfing on them.

And so in addition to the, to the black armor body suits, these are salants, that, that technology and the hoverboard technology, it's clear that there was also advanced aerospace vehicles involved. Because more than a few villagers, one guy drew it on acrylic chalkboard for me, saw an almond shape rather a acorn shaped craft, but like prone, like on its side.

Wow. And they all drew the same thing. They all drew it for me. All the ones who told me about this, they drew it in the dirt for me. Or I had them draw it in the dirt for me.

Or the one guy drew it on the acrylic chalkboard. And I've got that on film. They all drew the same thing. And some of them saw a close encounter like 40 feet in the air above their hut.

Some people describe it as matte black, hovering silently, no propellers, no propulsion.

“Remember, these people are watching all the same movies we are on their phones.”

They know what airplanes are, they know what helicopters are. These aren't like primitive, like I said, natives. And one guy said the guy who drew it on the acrylic chalkboard said that he was pulling up his nets at night. And as he was doing that, it was like he says, like somebody turned the lights on or the sun suddenly came up. And he looks up and 30, 40 feet above him is one of these craft,

almond shape, I keep saying almond shape, acorn shaped craft. And he said, but this one was translucent. It was like, it had a mesh, a transparent mesh. You could see the mesh, like looking through a screen door. And he saw two guys inside of it, two people or beings or something inside of it.

One in the front, one in like the belly of it. And it projected a light down on him. And it had these old stubby protrusions and they opened up. And there was like a series of blinking lights. And then they folded it back in.

And it started to move off and he said, when it started to move off, there was sort of a low frequency hum. So you have, not only you have these armor to salence, on these hover boards, you have advanced aerospace vehicles. Unconventional technology being deployed in the Amazon, Peru.

The Altonana region, various different villages. Now, well, why are they called face peelers? Because the indigenous people of you asked them who these assailants are. Half of them will say their aliens, half of them will say their face peelers. And what they mean by face peelers is the face peeler,

the legend goes back to the 80s, like the mid 80s. And it doesn't go further than that. And they say that these, they call them gringo started showing up with technology. And it sort of like the bookie man, the wife, I mean the mothers and fathers would tell their children, don't go out at night, the face peeler will get you.

Because every now and again, there'd be an attack by face peelers. And the cadaver of the person will go missing. And then they would show up later without a piece of their face gone or their whole face. And sometimes your organs harvested. So some villagers think these are gringo's, like CIA, you know, whatever.

That's, you know, everything CIA to people out there. So they probably thought I was CIA.

“But so, there was the most important incident happened with this.”

One of the most important incidents with this 15-year-old girl named Talia.

She was almost abducted. That's why the police went out there. They had to go out there because there was an attempt to abduction. Kidnapping. So they had to go investigate.

So we interviewed Talia. I, the first time I saw her, she was in the village in the middle of the village. During the evening, everybody was out. You know, all the men were playing soccer, the women were playing volleyball. And she was sitting by herself against a wall.

The oppo pointed her out to us. And me and Doug just were sort of, we didn't really want to approach her. We didn't want to freak her out. She just sitting there kind of smiling, watching the people play, you know, volleyball and soccer. Just sort of sitting there by herself smiling.

She looked over. She saw us and instantly she, she started to tremble. She just started trembling. And she froze up and she just freaked out. And she took her hair, she had long hair.

She took it and moved it over to the side of her face so we couldn't see her face. And she just sat there trembling. And the oppo brought her father over and we said, hey, we'd love to interview Talia, but obviously she's very scared. So he went over to her, tried to convince her to talk to us. She did not want anything to do with us.

She associated us with her assailants. But the father told us, hey, here's where I live. Come back over tomorrow morning. I'll talk to her. You guys just come and I'll bring her out to you.

“And so that's what we did the next morning.”

Long story short. We were standing in this guy's backyard. He brought Talia out to us to talk to her.

It's a severe PTSD.

And she had a scar right here.

“And so I interviewed Talia and she told me a wild story.”

I mean, I'm really at the time to tell it right now. But there was an attempted kidnapping and for by these assailants one evening. And there's a lot of details that goes into this. But they captured her and her backyard. They landed on hoverboards.

That's how it began. She was poking at a piece of fruit in the evening just before just after sundown. Or has it's getting dark. The fruit hit the ground. She bent over to pick it up.

And she felt this gust of wind. And she looked over. And it's one of these guys. A saline's head to foot and black armored body suits. Right?

It's just one guy. He's surfing on this hoverboard. And they all go like this when they tell me. They're like surfing. And the guy comes.

There's a little golly. He comes up the hill hovering and lands the board right behind her. And grabs her from behind. From behind grabs her mouth and grabs her. And then another guy.

“Same thing comes surfing up from the golly.”

Lands in front of her grabs her feet. And then they both lift her off the ground. And she said when they when they after they landed. They reached down and touched something on their boot. To engage the technology.

Lifted off the ground. And then they hovered her. Kared her behind this chicken coop. This hatch roof chicken coop. And they're proceeded to without going to all the details to attempt to cut her face off.

They took out. What we think was a like a laser scalpel. And they began it first. They put some cream on her face which numb to her face.

First they shot something up her nose with a syringe.

And she became disoriented. And then they put cream on her face. And took out this late. What we think is a laser scalpel. And began to make the incision.

And in fact, she heard them speaking. One of them she referred to as the Gringo because he sounded like me. She said. And the other one sounded like a Peruvian. So, and when they're getting ready to do this.

They're putting the cream on her face before they start making the incision. One of them said to the other. Be careful. Be careful. Don't put too much on her face.

It'll ruin the flesh. And she said that what she thought they meant was it was. She heard them saying something about how it makes the difficult to separate the skin from the flesh beneath it. So then they proceeded to make the incision. And she started just one last effort to break loose.

She started to push up the helmet on the guy behind her. And he let go for the pull as helmet down. You don't want her to see him. And when he let go for she screamed. And everyone in the village was already in the state of vigilance.

This wasn't the first incursion.

So they're all sitting on their porch as at night with their guns and their flashlights. Getting ready to start doing patrols. So when she screamed, they were unseen. Her brother and people who lived near her were unseen. Within, you know, very short order.

And they saw Taliya laying on the ground in the state of disorientation. And the two assailants, they were dragging her by the hair. Actually at first. And they were trying to lift her off the ground to take her. By her hair.

And the one guy said, you know, let her go. We can't take her or something like that. And he dropped her. And then the other people came on the scene. Taliya remembered that part.

She was being pulled by her hair. And then when the others. And you show in your video the laser and decision. And it's crazy. Yeah.

I mean, so when the other villagers arrive. They see the assailants hovering on the on the discs. And they got their flashlights on them. And they went. Right up through the canopy.

Wow. And I could tell you many other sessions. So what is this have to do with Michael Herrera? Who's this UFO whistle? Well, very, very indonesia.

Yeah. Really. Okay. So very, very quickly. I need to make sure people understand.

These incursions didn't just happen in remote villages in the jungle. Yeah. They also happened in the city of Nauta. Uh. 36,000 inhabitants.

Harden target with the Navy presence. Proving Navy presence. Military helicopters. Okay. It's not minors with jet packs trying to drive people off of the lands.

They could mine the water. The river. That's not what this phenomenon is. The fact that the incursions were happening in Nauta absolutely debunks that narrative.

“So the Michael Herrera thing, I think what we're looking at is, and Michael's a friend of mine.”

And he had a, as everyone knows, I won't, I won't retrace his story. But he encountered a disc, a large disc in Indonesia. Yeah. I was an eight gone craft that was blacker than black. And he was apprehended by these people that weren't special forces.

But had super-military technology, some paramilitary group. And they were, they seemed to be escorting these organic assets on board this, like alien reproductive exotic manned craft.

That's what it's saying. Exactly. Exactly. So the, the connection there is nefarious people, paramilitary organizations with advanced aerospace craft. Using it for the most, for the most bombable things,

imaginable, including, including human trafficking, for whatever purposes, harvesting psionic assets, which they do. In this case, peeling flesh. In this case, peeling flesh.

“But I think they were using the face, the face, pillar phenomenon is a cover for what?”

Something else that was going on. And very, very quickly, there was an operation happening, a joint operation happening in Peru, that had some crossover when these incursions were happening in the jungle. It was called Resilutes Sentinel.

And it involved, it involved basically every military agency.

Well, we have the Marines were there in Peru. The Air Force, the Navy. That's not a coincidence. The space force was there, the Coast Guard. They were running joint operations, training operations with the Peruvian military.

“Uruguay, I think Ecuador, Brazil, the UK, was involved.”

It was like, so what would the face peeling be a distraction for us? I don't know.

But, you know, I always wonder if the Resilutes Sentinel was a cover.

I'd like to think it was a cover for some sort of benevolent operation happening to try and drive these guys out, or capture them, or something. I don't know. I hate to think that we were experimenting. With something out there, I hate the awful.

I hate to think that, and I don't want to think that. But, or is there some sort of third party in possession of some sub-contracting apparatus,

“underneath these aerospace contractors who maybe have gone rogue?”

Some nefarious global break away. Exactly. Yeah. Is that what we're looking at here? On that sinister note.

And there's a whole lot more to be said of this. We're out of time. Yeah. My video on YouTube and the face peeling. Yeah.

Well, we'll cut parts of it in, but this was amazing.

Timothy, I really appreciate your time, man. This was a blast, and I love the way you think. And we got to run it back, because we think we just did like four hours and 45 minutes or something like that. Yeah. Man, it was my pleasure.

You do just amazing work, and just keep going. Oh, thanks, man. You're awesome. Likewise. Let me get you to the airport.

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