Amy Siple Fought the Nursing Bureaucracy and Won

practitioner database and just in Kansas, just in Kansas. And if two thirds of those so the

“auditor found that two thirds of their cases were licensed were no less steps, at least in the”

past few years. So I don't know for sure the exact number, but it's a lot. That's a lot of nurses. Two thousand, I mean I thought you were going to say you know maybe a few hundred, but a few thousand, that's so meaningful, so many lot. Yeah, yeah, it'll affect a lot of people. Now a lot of nurses have left our professional together that went through this because it's it's just so hard. So hopefully they'll come back. I don't know if they will, but you know, I can't say for sure. We required that they say it's in digital renewal reminders to nurses

when you're licensed. You know, just like if you're getting ready to, you're your mechanic tells

you when it's time to renew your oil or change your oil. They send you, or your hairdresser.

So with the digital renewal reminder, Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American potential. Hey everyone, welcome to the American potential podcast. I'm your host, David from today's episode is going to be a follow up to a story that we did back in the fall. You may remember the nurse practitioner from Kansas, who ran into an issue with the state nursing board when she went to renew

her license. Now, when she started to speak out about what the board had done, she found out she wasn't the only one. Today we're going to talk about what the state legislators did to fix this issue and about the lawsuit that she was part of. I don't know welcome back to the podcast, Amy Cypill, who has been a nurse practitioner for over 30 years. Amy, welcome back. Thank you, delighted to be here. Well, I'm delighted also because it seems like there's been some real positive movement

in in your cause that you really have helped spur. So I kind of wanted to talk about that and you know, for folks, maybe who hadn't seen your previous episode, could you maybe give a quick recap

“of the story that you've been dealing with with the Kansas nursing board?”

Sure. Over two years ago, my husband was diagnosed with metacetic cancer. And at the same time, the practice I had worked for for over 20 years sold out. And so I just took a step back from practice so that I could focus on navigating this journey with him. And a few months later, after he stabilized, I was ready to go back to work. I went on the board of nursing's website and saw that for the first time in 32 years, I had failed to pay my licensing dues on time.

Everything else was current. I just failed to pay them on time. I've never been sued,

never had any complaints filed against me. I expected to pay a late fee and I was shocked to see what they had in store for me. They had planned to discipline me. And they wanted me to sign a consent agreement and go on public-shaming databases listing me with unprofessional conduct, which is the same title you'd given nurse that sexually assaulted a patient. And so I fought back and got the legislature involved, the media involved, and we brought a bill forward that brought

reform to the board of nursing. It seems to me that the board of nursing didn't know what they had come in for. I mean, that's not good. They did not. They did not, you know, to God be the

“glory. I met, I think it's been about a year ago, probably around this month, I met with the speaker”

of the House, who I know personally is a friend of mine. And a couple of key legislators represented Christi Williams and represented Sandy Pickard. And I told them, you know, what had happened. And it was just sounds so unbelievable. And I think through the years they had heard other stories like this, but it just didn't sound credible, but they knew me. They knew me. And I taken care of legislators, family members. So when I told them this was occurring, the legislature

was ready to take action. So they conducted two full days of hearings, July of last year and then September of 25, like two eight hour days in which they brought the board of nursing in and they investigated this. And they, I brought in, and I brought in dozens of nurses with stories that were much more egregious than mine. And the legislature wasn't sensed to find out the way that nurses and Kansas were being treated over very minor paperwork issues. Wow, what were some of

the stories that of the other nurses that you heard? Oh my goodness. So an example of one gentleman, he, a very, very good LPN. And he worked in an assisted living environment. And he was so good that his employer came to him and said, we want you to train to become an administrator. So we're going to move you to Florida. And we're going to put you through administrative training school. And

but he develops a rare form of cancer, like so many young men these days. And he has to go on

“radiation treatments. And so in the meantime, then his employer terminates him. So he didn't”

have to deal with FMLA. And he wasn't working as a nurse. He's going through administrative training. And so after he recovers, he needs to get back to work. He wins a wrongful termination suit against his employer. But he contacts a Kansas State Board of Nursing and said, hey, I let my license

laps a few months ago, because I wasn't working as a nurse. I never thought I would again,

but I need to support my family. So I need to get my nursing license back so I can get a Florida nursing license. And they said, oh, well, just sign this consent agreement, which is what they do. They don't tell you what that means. And you know, pay these fines. And then we'll get you back to work. We'll get your license reinstated. So he signs the consent agreement, doesn't understand. I mean, the guy's going through cancer and everything else and financial stress. And then the

“Board of Nursing, of course, label him as unprofessional. Then the Florida Board of Nursing says,”

we're not going to give you a license. Kansas says you're unprofessional. You can't get a license. You can't even apply for license really five years. So he ended up working. He was working at 7 11, 60 hours a week. His car was getting ready to be repossessed when I encountered him. That's just one example. And I could tell you, just I could 100 more. It was so unbelievable what was happening. And so the bill that we brought forward only really addressed the clerical issues, like Josh's

case and my case. And that, you know, Josh, I just told you about. We, the bill was specific to that. There were other misconduct by the Board of Nursing we uncovered, but we just, we wanted to make sure that the public was protected. So we focused only on nurses who had paperwork, mistake, stirring license renewal. And I'll tell you the Board of Nursing was audited through this whole process. And they found that in two thirds, two thirds of their discipline cases were just

licensed for no missteps. Meanwhile, serious practice related violations were piling up over five years old that they hadn't even investigated. We were easy pick-ins. Amy, do you, I guess I don't know if it's fair to speculate it's to the motivation of what was going on there. Was it just that, like you said, it was easy to go after people have paperwork violations. It's got to cut and dried and they can love you fines or there was something else going on. I mean, it just seems

so bizarre that that's you to want to punish nurses for just not renewing in a timely way. I mean, my gosh, if they applied that in life, I'd be like, you know, on billboards as a, that's a terrible person. If it was for renewing stuff on time. I, it, it's really hard to understand. In the beginning, I was really searching for patterns. And then there were just so many

nurses. We did discover that the Board of Nursing had $4.9 million in reserve just in

additional because of all the fines and fees they had levied against us. And we're easy cases to close. You don't have to investigate a practice related violations. If you're just going over it after it licensed renewal misstep, somebody puts in the wrong credit card number when they're renewing their license, for example. You know, then you can say, well, you've been practicing without a license because you didn't pay us. And there were just so many cases, but two thirds,

two thirds were just licenses renewal missteps. So when this first happened to you, I think again, it seems like the nursing board fit out more that they could true. It didn't realize what they were getting. But like, take me to like, when you decided, hey, I'm going to fight here. And I'm going to not let this go, just send a consent to Cree. Because that took some courage and determination. Because it's not like it happened overnight. You think me through like,

why you did it and like what your state of mind was as you did that? It was tough. My attorney told me I should sign it. He said no one has ever won a fight with the

“board of nursing. And he did tell me if you want to fight this, he said, I know you've got legislative”

contacts and people up in to pick and know you. You may be able to affect change for the next generation, but you're going to be the sacrificial lamb and you're going to pay a heavy told to do so because they are not going to back off on you. And the board of nursing, one of the attorneys

even said to me when I refuse to sign the third consent agreement they gave me, you have no idea

how bad they can make this for you. And I did some research that I found out they could it could have been really bad. So if you, everything is set up. So there's no way to win. If you go to an administrative hearing, if the, and at that point, actually, I would have to tell you we got three

the courts get deference to the agencies. And so there's just almost no way to win.

But we did get a bill passed that changed that too. But so when I went to an administrative court, the judge told me, I can't consider whether your constitutional rights were violated, or if this is just, I just have to determine if they follow the nurse practice act, which they wrote. Now, if you, even if I would have wanted administrative court, the board of nursing could still rule against me. And if I lose an administrative court, which I did, then the board of nursing

can send me a bill for everything it costs them to take me to court. So you can understand why nobody ever would fight this. It's illogical. And then if you can't pay that bill, they can

put you in the office of Inspector General. And if you are on that list, if your license is revoked,

then you can't work anywhere that takes federal dollars. I could be a school bus driver.

“You'll appear on background checks. I mean, they can crush you completely. So that's why no”

one ever fights. However, I heard about cases like Josh and so many others, and I talked three nurses out of suicide. I am not kidding you. People lose their livelihood and their identity. And so my husband said, the Bible tells us, do not grow weary of doing good. And you have to stand and you have to fight. And I said, we're probably going to go bankrupt. You understand that. And, you know, I don't know how bad your cancer is. And I might, I won't be able to support us

if I don't have my license. And my husband is just a rock and praise the Lord as cancers and remission and he's doing well. But he said, we're going to fight this. And then in the end, several months into this, that the Civic Legal Foundation came in with their white, night hat and represented me. And I'm telling you, the Kansas Board of Nursing is no match for the Pacific Legal Foundation. They do great work. They really do. They stand up for the

little guy. You're talking about this is on biblical stories. I mean, or passage from the Bible, you know, this is kind of a David and Glyath moment. But, you know, maybe the Pacific Legal Fund was your, your slingshot in stones in this case. It was, it was. They said,

“this is a first amendment, right? Because the only thing that they had against me was speaking”

at conferences while my license was lapsed during those few months. And so they said, the Board of Nursing said that was the active practice of nursing. And Pacific Legal said, "No nurses can speak at conferences. They have no right." And so they wanted to take this case all the way through. And in the end, the Board of Nursing realized they were outmatched. And they agreed to vacate my case just like one week before I was supposed to go to trial again, which was

last month. Oh, wow. Is that recent? Help fabulous. Yes. Just last month, I was supposed to be backing in district court and the Board of Nursing backed off. They said, "No, we want the case

vacate. If we don't want to do this." So are you free to practice now? Yes. Yes. It's never happened.

So not only did our bill pass and our bill accomplished so much, so much. And I can go through

“some of that if you would like. But my case has been completely vacated as if it never happened.”

So I'm currently in the process of writing a book because I want other people to take a stand. I mean, we've got to take a stand when these injustices occur, even if the odds are against you, or it's going to keep occurring. And then after the book has been released, then I look forward to getting back to practice and getting on with my life. But this story needs to be told. It couldn't be more. I'm glad that I'm so glad that you've come on our podcast to tell it.

It's such a great example of someone coming up against the bureaucracy that is trying to take away their livelihood and you really violate their rights. And there's a real injustice here, but so often people just, you know, are cout because of the the odds and the potential punishment that comes with taking on government. And yet you did it. You'd encourage to stand up and do it and rally people to your cause and you won. And you what at multiple levels. So you obviously

had this vacated and you won in court. But then on the legislative front, you've done some things that are making lives better for your fellow nurses, but also in the future. I mean, there's some real serious positive improvements here with regard to the judicial system. And my understanding is that the construction of the nursing board. So maybe can you talk about the different pieces of legislation and what happened there? Yes. It honestly just felt like this was like God's

three pieces of legislation actually that went through. And when you think about the fact that less than 10% of bills that are introduced become law and we got three pieces of legislation

through that is just incredible. So our bill decouples license renewal from discipline.

So if you don't meet the criteria to renew your license, you can't renew it until you do. But you're not going to be put on public shaming databases in your career destroyed because of it.

“It changes the title of unprofessional conduct because that's what really gets you.”

You know, so unprofessional conduct is acts or omissions of acts that could have caused harm earth threats to patient safety in that function as a nurse. So I'm telling you nurses were labeled with unprofessional conduct because they didn't pay their taxes or their student loans. I mean, it was just they were just dealt. I mean, you didn't have to have anything to do with nursing

or maybe somebody didn't like your post on social media. They were coming after those nurses too.

So those were important pieces. Now the one they really fought us on was we forced the board of nursing to go back and void all those nurses that they had put on those databases for licensed renewal missteps. So if it was a clerical issue, only clerical cases, they have to take them off. And that will free the nurses to be able to go back to practice again.

“We said nurses. Any idea how about how many that affects? We know that over 3,600 nurses were on”

the National Practitioner database and just in Kansas, just in Kansas. And if 2/3 of those, so the auditor found that 2/3 of their cases were licensed renewal missteps, at least in the past few years. So I don't know for sure the exact number, but it's a lot. That's a lot of nurses. 2000. I mean, I thought you're going to say, you know, maybe a few hundred, but a few thousand. That's that's so meaningful and so many lives. Yeah. Yeah. It'll affect a lot of people. Now a lot of nurses

have left our professional together. They went through this because it's, it's just so hard. So hopefully they'll come back. I don't know if they will, but, you know, I can't say for sure. We required that they sent digital renewal reminders to nurses when your license, you know, just like if you're getting ready to, your mechanic tells you when it's time to renew your oil, or change your oil, they sent, or your hairdresser. So with the digital renewal reminder,

we said that nurses have to investigate nurses. So like I couldn't open on an O.B. case,

because I'd never worked O.B. And the person that investigated me wasn't even a nurse. So

there were actually 15 different elements in our bill. I mean, it was long and usually you can't get a bill that that's that exhaustive past. One amendment, I was not actually for this because I was afraid it was going to derail our bill, bill required that the entire board of nursing be removed. So they fired the entire board of nursing. And then the governor had to be passed. Yet passed, yes, and the bill still passed. Usually, and I've worked on legislation before,

but generally when you bring legislation forward, your bill gets watered down through the process. R's kept getting stronger. Because the legislators were saying, you're not doing enough. And I was just so afraid of losing the bill. Because I wanted to make sure we were veto proof. I didn't want the language to be so strong that people might think it was retaliatory. That was another piece was in the bill. The board of nursing can't retaliate against nurses who are

pushing back. I mean, there were a lot of different. I can go through them if you want, but there was a lot.

“That's fabulous. In my understanding, is the governor signed this, right?”

Yes, I was surprised the governor signed it. I was we, um, because the governor, I imagine Republicans were the one pushing this initially. Yes, the Republicans were pushing it through. And we got very little support from the Democrat side of the aisle. So I assume that they were probably taking directives from the governor. So the whole time, I'm just like, please let this be veto proof. Because I really thought she would probably veto it. And she's vetoed probably more

legislation than any of her predecessors. She's no for vetoing legislation. But we were veto proof. And she knew that. So I don't know if she signed it because she knew that. And there were lots of other things she wanted to veto or if she supported us, I don't know. Because we couldn't get an answer from her office on that. Wow. What a great win, though, for, I mean, for you, for the nurses have been impacted, but then going forward. I mean, that's huge. I even reconstructed the board.

could be also create a fund to help impacted nurses. Yes, that was that hurt piece. So they forced

to the board of nurse and I because they're 4.9 million in reserves. This is in addition to their

“budget, just from all the fines of these, they've levied. So the legislature said, you have to set”

aside 500,000 of that to, uh, enough, um, a fund so that nurses can make claims against the state for all of the harm that you have caused them. And what was interesting to it, I think part of that impetus for that was the, how select committee on government oversight brought the executive director of the board of nursing back in again in February and said, we want to know what you have done since we met in July and September. Did you reverse any of these cases? Did you,

are you, did you stop pursuing some of those nurses that testified in front of us? What have you done to make corrections? And the executive director said, we don't think we've done anything wrong. So I mean, these legislators were insensed. So they, well, they said, you're setting aside 500,000 to compensate these nurses for the damages that they have incurred.

Fabulous. Good. Yeah. It is incredible that the impunity of some of the, uh, you know,

the leaders of bureaucracy have and, you know, lack of respect for the legislature. That probably helps spur spur along some of the legislative activity, though. Maybe it helps explain why I got more and more ramped up and aggressive. You know, if you ignore the legislature, they don't usually take hindlands of that. It did. You are right. So many. And this is something that I'm really thankful for as I've talked to some senators since that, since our bill was passed. And they said, this isn't

just in the board of nursing. I said, of course, it's not. The fourth branch of government is out of control. And so I think they're taking a look at other agencies as well. In addition, we're seeing

this movement. Model legislation has already been considered with our bill. Arizona just passed a very

similar board of nursing reform bill. I think you're going to see this moving around the nation now.

“That's fabulous. That's how this happens. I mean, good say it's kind of past a few things and then”

it catches fire. You see it go through half the states. And I think that's, it's a really great effect. So let's talk else about house bill 283 that dealt with the courts. I think it was with judicial difference. What does this bill do? That was huge in the Pacific legal foundation. I'm just so thankful for them. Not only did they support me, you know, they supported our bill. They helped open on some of the language, but they were pushing for this one as well. And I think they used my

case, you know, in our case as an example for that. So it allows the courts to consider the totality of the circumstances and not just give death threats to the bureaucratic agency. So this takes away some of the power of the bureaucracy and will encourage, I hope citizens to step up when their rights have been trampled on. Well, it's very common sense of goal in that why should a court where we feel like it's equal footing, right? That's our expectation going into a legal proceeding. That then

“the court is putting more weight on the opinion of the agency, the deferring to the agency that's what”

it's called judicial difference. It just seems wrong. I mean, it seems like the court is, you know, in the deck of the court is stacked against you. So I think that this bill kind of saying that that can't happen is so important. And we've seen this happen this past and other states too, which is great. It's a great movement that we've been seeing actually even at the federal level over the last few years. But I think it's such an important reform that that really sets Kansas up for a fair

court system going forward. I agree. I agree. This fourth branch of government, the bureaucracy has been trampling on our rights and from the health department to the dog catcher to the port of nursing. You know, you just hear story after story and we have to have a way to fight back. Well, I mean, you know, I'm just so inspired by your story. I think that, you know, we tell a lot of stories on this show about people who get involved in the impact they have on their community

or their state or their nation. And as a larger campaign for America's prosperity, we've been talking about the one small step campaign, which is, you know, we look back at our founding, you know, folks that now we sort of leaders are great Americans, you know, taking that one small step to get involved. And that touched off, you know, chain reaction of events

have shaped this nation. I mean, you took one small step now, was that you were kind of put in a

corner to have to take it. But the fact that you were able to have that courage to step out there and stay after this fight and then draw partners like, you know, specifically go foundation others to your cause and the legislature. But I mean, that's such a huge reform on multiple levels,

“you know, that you just accomplished a lot. I think it's so fabulous that they mess with the wrong”

nurse practitioner. Well, thank you to God be the glory and honestly, we just had a great team.

A lot of other nurses came along side us and people even outside of nursing who, when they heard about what was going on, agreed to just lock arms together. And I, I'm just so thankful for the team that God brought together to engage in this battle. It's fabulous. Do you have any other as you as you reflect back on it and look forward to how this could affect Kansas or, or even

“nationally, like, or say anything you're particularly excited about? Yes, I'm excited. I'm just hoping”

that more people will engage in the battle when in just a sinkers, you know, these,

and if you're facing more discipline out there, let me just tell you it doesn't define you. And so many people that, especially the suicideality just really broke my heart. I mean, I just encountering people that told me that their friends had committed suicide. That doesn't define you. There is a path to fight back and to stand up and tell your story. And if we just stay silent, it's going to continue. So I'm encouraged that we were successful in this endeavor.

Other states like Arizona just took it on. Other bureaucratic agencies are being looked at. I hope people will, you know, follow me on Substack or LinkedIn or maybe I can come back after we get the book published. But I'm hoping that that that will be an inspiration for people to take a stand as well. But I, and I appreciate your show and other podcasters and people out there that are just telling these stories and letting folks know that you're not alone. You are not alone.

And if we stand together, it's phenomenal what we can accomplish, especially with God's help. Well, amen. That's great. I really, so thrilled that you could come on and discuss a real win for regular folks trying to do the right thing, but kind of coming up against the bureaucracy. So, great job. Thank you. Well, folks, if you like this episode or like to stay connected with the podcast, be sure to like and subscribe to our channel as well as following us on Facebook

“and Instagram and YouTube. And always remember, we were named freedom or easily take”

regret. Don't take them regret. Well, they're in defend freedom of being. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you for listening to American Potential. You may listen to more stories from Americans working every day to expand freedom and opportunity in their communities by visiting of americanpotential.com.