From Builder to Policy Leader: Tim Golding on Housing Reform and Taking the First Step

driven exclusionary policy is that of just priced people out of the market and then you

have other businesses buying properties also and all that, but there's just not an inventory

“in affordable stuff for people to get. And so I think it's great work, I relate to the”

game, I think I said I'm glad you guys have been on top of it. Yeah, and somebody who has four adult children who are buying homes or have bought homes, they struggle. I mean, there's there's not enough inventory, we're like 125,000 units short and Michigan of what they we should have. And you know, when you have a button at housing, you have plus our mark more affordable housing. And the average home across the country, before they even put a shovel in the ground,

a quarter of the money that you pay for that building goes to the government in one way or

and if it's a multi unit, like a apartment unit, 40% of that cost goes to the government and fees and

fines regulations, whatever it takes to get the project full. Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American potential. So if you've been listening,

“you know that over the last number of months we were talking about Americans for prosperity”

is one small step campaign. And you know, it's a campaign highlighting the small actions that people took the one step they took to get involved, to change their community, to change their state and their nation even. And it's it's about taking that step to get involved and make a difference in politics and public policy in this case. That comes in all shapes and sizes. People have different backgrounds, have different looks as to how they did it.

Right now, we're at Americans for prosperity is annual event where we gather our entire staff together, to strategize, to get together, have fun with one another and talk about the future and become inspired. And what's awesome is that there's a whole bunch of people here who have really inspiring stories. Great stories about how they took that one small step to get involved. And most of them now are doing it professionally as they're their career.

So I'm excited to bring some of those stories to you. And we're excited to talk to a good friend of mine, Tim Golding. Tim is our American's prosperity, Michigan, state director. He had a career in business. There's a good successful business, but really saw things that were concerned to him and his family and decided to take a step to get involved. And now is doing it professionally, fighting for freedom and liberty in the state of Michigan. So Tim, welcome, thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having me, David. I'm happy to be doing it, too. It's been a great changing career.

“Great. I, you know, I think, talked to me about the first stage of your life, your career life.”

I mean, I think it was like 92 to 09 thereabouts that you had a whole different career. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about that and how you came into that career. Right. So my twin brother and I started a residential building and remodeling company after we got our college degrees. And we had grown up doing that with our father, building homes and remodeling homes. So we thought, you know what? Our degrees were totally different from what we

did in the business, but we we started it anyway and grew that had a wonderful time providing for our families, providing for our subcontractors and our employees and doing all that. But along the way, being in business and seeing how from when we started in 92 and 93 to excuse me when we ended up close or when I left the business, how much influence the government has from your business and how much money they take out of your business, how much money at the end of the day, they take out

of out of the customers pocket. Right. So seeing that along the way was frustrating and I knew at some point I was going to have to get involved and have a seat at the table when decisions were being made that affected my business. Seeing what went on in the hospital where my wife is a nurse at the University of Michigan and some of the changes there and then also at the public school education system and how it was doing a different service I felt to the kids in Michigan.

So I just started getting involved with school boards and different things that paying more attention

and that got me starting to take a first step. We had some stuff happened at the school that

got me involved and then got me in contact with some state legislators and built some relationships with them and then COVID hit. And when COVID hit and our governor said nobody could work except for her chosen few, that didn't set well with me. Right. So yeah, Michigan was a particularly bad place that it seemed really unjust. Yes, it was awful. So being self-employed we still found ways to make money of course and but seeing what it did to other businesses and how people lost their

jobs and businesses were shuttered because of it just really put me over the edge and during that time I got involved closely with our Senate Majority Leader in Michigan. Mike Shurkey and he got me involved in a petition drive to claw back some of our freedoms and in that I got to meet more legislators from the state and during that time having a challenging argument with the Senate Majority

over office and I said I have but it's never been the right time and he said well now is the right

“time you need to run for office. So you're, at some point I mean Shurkey when we talk about this”

one small step campaign in like the practical action that happened. Right. So in this case you saw injustice in justice with regard to the lockdowns around COVID in Michigan and you said hey I'm going to be part of this petition campaign and my understanding is you're really good at getting a lot of just a church. Like you know in a way like you stepped up as a volunteer community organizer to try to make this happen. So that petition campaign became your first small step to a bigger one of

that being recruited to run for the Michigan State Senate. Yeah it was a, it was a really great experience to go around and try to build that community of people that were concerned about their

freedoms being taken away from the government and I went all over the, the, not the whole state

but all over our area and I did collect a lot of signatures and got people to help do that. Made a lot of great relationships. Some of the people I'm still friends with today. But it helped me see and understand what other people's point of view. You know being self employed for as long as I was dealt with a lot of homeowners and you know building projects and stuff like that. But being in that setting really helped me see that people see the world differently than I do and it was

that was good for me to see that. I thought everybody thought like Tim did and that'd be a pretty boring world if it was the case. But it gave me a different point of view and it said another led it, led it another fire on it to get involved and like to to protect and help and serve people

in a way. You know I didn't want to go there for money. It would have been a pay cut. I didn't

want to go there for any power. I just truly wanted to make a difference in my community. So whether that was my wife's nursing career or the kids in their schools and then in business and throughout a claw back again, more of the freedoms and opportunity that have been taken away from us over the years in government. Like if you're looking business, the amount of regulations to build

“the home and the things you have to do to get a permit. All of that just ends up costing the home”

owner more money. So they can't do a, you know they can't put that money back into their home but the remodeling or building. And if they could, they would do something different maybe. But the government keeps taking more and more of that money. And I just, I wanted to have a seat at the table so I could make change. And so it shouldn't hear I mentioned the Senate race and it wasn't successful. No it wasn't. And that's actually how I, I was, I learned about AFP. And you know when you're

running for office, you meet a lot of people and organizations and you you fill out their surveys and see if you align with them. And AFP endorsed my candidate, my campaign endorsed me as a candidate and got to learn more about AFP and the things that they fight for every day, both in Michigan and across the country. And so it was a pretty blue district. It wasn't a very conservative domestic, but it was a new district at the time because they just redistricted. So my wife and I went

into the race just to run hard and whether we wouldn't have lose didn't matter but we just kind of were doing what God thought us, he wanted us to do. So I kind of didn't work for a year. I did a little bit, don't tell my brother. But just campaigned, we ended up coming up short, but in the end of the day, when we lost, I just, we talked about it. I didn't want to give up what I had started in politics. The relationships I'd made and I learned that AFP had a job opening. So I said,

“you know, I'm going to apply. So we did that and you know, I remember that well. Yeah, you're on the”

youth. I did. I interviewed you and I remember being really impressed. You know, I had out vote everybody else because everybody was impressed. I guess. Right. I know I, what was actually what I really loved about your background and this is pertinent to what we're talking about is, you know, you had been an entrepreneur, started a business and then came to wanting to be involved in politics of public policy. Right. From a very genuine place. You know, you really cared about what, you know,

you wanted to make a difference on issues you really cared about. So tell me what you think about now earning your paycheck like like your career of being in politics and public policy like how do you feel about that? I love it. I absolutely love the ability that I have to make a difference of people's lives and it's obviously incremental gains most of the time. But dealing with state law makers of federal lawmakers, dealing with grassroots people. I love every bit of it and I think

we are making a difference both in Michigan and across the country and when you have the ability to dig in and get paid to do it, it's rewarding. I mean, I've had really three careers in my life, orthopedic sales, construction business and this and I don't think I've worked it in my life. I love what I do. It's wonderful. And when I was running for office, there was a few jobs that we were doing for one customer that we had done a lot of remodeling for over the years and different homes that

he had known. And he was of a different persuasion politically than I was and we were talking about one day at a job we were doing for him and in an arbor. And he said, "We might not agree on everything politically." But he says, "You're going to make a great politician or great. You'd be great

and really listening and leaning in and trying to be trying to find common ground." And that's really what politics is in my mind. It's relational. It's people have to compromise. Not that you have to give up on your core principles and who you are and what you truly believe and what you would die for. But being willing to sit down in a room and talk with people and quote the solutions that best satisfy what our state, what our counties, whatever need was appealing to me and I

having the opportunity to do that every day is very, very rewarding for me.

“Yeah, I think, you know, when things are talking about a lot of fulfillment and is, you know,”

basically like, you know, do you feel like you're becoming the person you want to be

through the work that you're doing and I've always found it so gratifying to wake up in the morning

and feel good about what I'm doing. Because I mean, I love what I'm doing every day. I mean, you know, I do the expense report. I have to have that difficult conversation. There's all different, but you know, I have to go talk to you on the podcast. But I, you know, in general, a lot to really believe in what you're doing and to enjoy it is a real blessing. And I think it's huge and I feel like it actually gets the best out of people. I feel like I innovate better.

I'm more excited to work on going to work hard because it's what I care about and what I really what I love and I bring my a game, you know, and I'm not looking around for other things to do. It's some, I'm locked in and, you know, I have felt blessed to work in American's prosperity for over 14 years now. You know, it's over half my work life and it is over half my work life. And it's, it's just been a great experience as well. I'm excited here for all staff to share colleagues

“and talk to folks like you. Yeah. No, I think self-actualizing and God gave me gifts and abilities”

and talents that I used in business. My twin brother and I have very different personalities and he was really, he was, oh, very different. For turn, or where are our identical? I've had to show people my driver's license to prove that I'm not Tom before. So, but you have very different personality. Very different personalities and people that know us would say so. But like, so he would he would run the jobs and and build the jobs and new stuff. And I got to, to the bills business

so big that I got to the point where I just sold an estimated and put contracts together and stuff like that. But using my ability to to to deal with people come up with solutions that best fit the homeowners needs, right? They couldn't get everything they wanted and I couldn't get everything I wanted, but coming up with a contract that was mutually agreeable to both parties. And you get to do that in politics every day. I really do believe that I am being self-actualized and using

my gifts and abilities and talents that God gave me to make it in different people's lives. Well, some states are a lot easier to make a difference in than Michigan. And I mean, you, you know, what is going on? Six years probably, you know, Governor Whitmer has, let's say advanced policies that we would think have not been optimal for unleashing freedom liberty and opportunity in Michigan. In fact, we feel like they probably moved in backwards. And it's just, it's a swing

state that legislatively in the legislature and there's always something going on in you. A Senate

and the, in Congress, it's kind of ground zero with a handful of other states for politics, you know, just at multi-level politics. And what I always thought, is it sure about Michigan, is the activist base, the grassroots there are very pronounced and very engaged. And sometimes really radicalize. Oh, yes, definitely. Yeah. So it's a, it's a, it's a fascinating state, and so it's got to be real challenge being the state director. So tell me what, you know,

your approach to politics and Michigan and how you have found it. And then I want to get in a little bit about some of the things you guys are doing, and the main policies we're talking about. Right. My approach is to find, well, first of all, working at the political level and the policy level and doing all that and trying to mix those together and find equilibrium is difficult at times. But in Michigan, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of state and federal

races that are very important, critical to a lot of the work we want to do. So trying to figure out

which candidates best fit in a line with what we want to do and getting behind them and supporting those. But when you do that, sometimes you don't make that radical base or some of the people

“that are a little bit more radical in the grassroots, you have to figure out a way to make them”

okay with your choice of candidates when they might not have really originally liked that candidate. But trying to have the conversations like Ronald Reagan, you know, if if he's that person's with you 80% of the time there, they're your friend and you should support them. Maybe not during the primary, but after the primary. And I think that's one area where politics is lacked in the last several years is these headstrong people that don't want to get behind the

winner in the primary to push our conservative agenda in this case. And that's one thing we try to have these conversations with people and just, you know, really dig into their why and why they're involved in politics, why they care about a certain candidate. But then try to figure out, you know, if their candidate isn't successful, then our candidate, you know, get behind our candidate and help them win at the state federal level, whatever. So that's kind of how I approach it like

not throwing, not calling everybody's baby ugly right off to get, you know, but listening to people and finding out where they come from because when you find out when someone where they're

you're coming from and hopefully find consensus there. Yeah, I think that's that's a great approach.

Especially in a place that can be polarized as Michigan. Right. So what are the policy priorities that you have for Michigan that you guys are working on? Right now there were there's a, we have nine housing zoning bills that we're trying to get pushed through, which I run a cliff falls right into, you know, my wheelhouse from dealing with it for almost 30 years professionally

“and seeing how some of these zoning rules, if you want to call them, our ordinances are very”

impactful and people being able to build the homes that they want on the square footers of lot that they want, the square foot size home they want. And we've got pretty constructive and restrictive where we've, all these different municipalities across the state have constrained what people can build and said, no, you have to build a 3500 square foot home even if you only want

a 2500 square foot home in a certain area. All that to say, a lot of these zoning nine different

zoning bills are trying to claw back what the state is taken away, what the township is taken away from property owners and homeowners and given it back to them to say, yes, if you want to build a smaller home, you can do that. If you want to build a accessory dwelling unit for your mother and law on your existing house, you can do that. So that those are nine bills and there'll be more of them in the future, but they're bipartisan by camera, the governor actually supports them,

which is good. It is getting a lot of pushback from some of the locals who want to have, you know, they don't like government control, unless it's the township government control, let's let's let's just a six or eight guys on that board that want to have that control. So yeah, I have a spending in a few decades in politics. I know opinions about local politics, because it is amazing, the control, at least perceive control, that a lot of state legislators allow

like mayors and village presidents to see councils to have over them. And I'm always like,

why don't you listen to your people? Like we talk about property taxes, you know, I'm an Illinois and people are definitely afraid of their local elected officials. And I'm like, the this is a 90-10 issue. Why are you not listening to your people? Right? Let alone, you know, everybody loves their mayor, loves their village president kind of, but there's a, in my opinion,

“an outsized voice that I think that group's like America's prosperity can be helpful in”

right-sizing, because when we can amplify the voice of the average homeowner in this case or the average citizen, then it diminishes or I like to say, right-sizes the voice of that local elected official, because right now that, you know, they're well organized, they have their associations, have their paid lobbyists, they have, you know, their own cloud and that they're, and I think sometimes for the legislators, it's just that they don't want the hassle of that mayor calling and bugging

them and complaining to them all the time. It seems silly, but really that's a lot of times like, "Oh, my mayor's going to call here from all my mayors." Well, just, then here from your mayors. Let's make as a mayor's prosperity, we want to make it so you hear from your constituents, and there's a lot of them than there are mayors in your district, and we want to make sure that you're scared about hearing from all your constituents about something maybe that mayor

might like. Yeah, that's 100% the case right now. And, you know, I had somebody challenge me the day

“like, you're just, you know, pushing this from AFP's perspective whatever. Like, well, I am”

employed by AFP, and I do think these are right, but I'm coming at it from someone who built in remote homes for almost 30 years, who was a township trustee, who was on the Zony Board of Appeals, and who also was a chair of our planning commission right now. Really? So I'm coming at it from the standpoint that I do want to give more of these rights back to the homeowner. You know, I got tired of sitting on these boards. The Zony Board of Appeals, for example, were a homeowner

wants to build a deck that's three inches too big and near a property line. They're going to spend $600,000 dollars coming there for us to say, well, yeah, I guess you can do that. They shouldn't have to do that. As long as he's zoning things don't impede on health safety and welfare, then they should be able to do it, you know, within reason. And there's one township in our state that has a 40 acre lot minimum size that to build a houseowner. That's exclusionary in and of itself,

right? I mean, 40 acres to build a home, that's nuts. So you're giving up on taxes and all the stuff that could benefit your schools and your township because you're saying you're going to put one house on a 40 acre lot. So we do try to encourage lawmakers that you are going to catch heat from this. You are going to hear from your township in the MML and MTA and the groups in the state that are that are vocal. They're small, but they're very vocal. And they've gotten some, they've gotten some

lawmakers to kind of, you know, maybe push the push pause a little bit, but we're still moving these through and there should be out of committee next week, hopefully. Well, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you, I was late to the game in that I was like housing boring. Don't care much about housing is policy and and I was at a meeting at one of our states, it was on South and they were talking about who was going to work on their legislative agenda. It's like the

primary, you know, staff member and a young guy. He was like 25 who just smart as a whip. He was like,

because my generation is so impacted by this. I can't buy a house. We can't buy a house for another

decade. I'm like, it's so hard to find, you know, a home and to get to a point where we can buy a home. And it's so restrictive. And I was like, oh, wow. And so a few of the other young people in the, yeah, I talked about young people next. You know, a few of the young people are like, yeah, no, we really care about this. This is such an important issue to us. And it's kind of put my eyes like, hey, I've just not been paid. You know, I've been a homeowner for, I don't know, 20 something year, 25 years.

And I just kind of thought, well, you know, you graduate up into that. And no, we've changed American dream to the negative, really, and partially by having were such restrictive and exclusionary policies that have just priced people out of the market. And then, you know, you have other businesses buying properties, also on all that. But there's just not inventory and affordable stuff for people to get.

“And so I think it's great work. I relate to the game. Like I said, I'm glad you guys have been on top of”

it. Yeah. And somebody who has four adult children who are buying homes or have bottoms, they struggle. I mean, there's, there's not enough inventory where like 125,000 units short and Michigan of what they we should have. And, you know, when you have abundant housing, you have less, our more affordable housing. And the average home across the country, before they input a shovel in the ground, a quarter of the money that you pay for that building

goes to the government in one way or the other. And if it's a multi unit, like I'm apartment unit, 40% of that cost goes to the government and fees and fines and regulations or whatever it takes to get to get the project built. So if we can claw some of that back, we can have it where in

Michigan, the average first time home buyer is now 39 years old. That's crazy. Yeah, I bought my

first house. I think my wife and I were in early 20s. But if we can claw back some of those restrictive measures at the zoning level and then I want to expand on it. When I first started building the

“codebook was like three quarters of an inch, maybe thick. Now it's about that thick, like two and”

half inches thick. Wow. We don't build better homes. We just build more expensive homes. And that goes right back to the, to the property owner, the citizen would even call it to their pocket book where they can't afford something. I want to make it where they can afford to live in the house that they want to build, that they want to live in, not one of the government tells them they have to live in. So as you look ahead to, um, years of the future in Michigan, and obviously it's

a state that swings back and forth from a partisan standpoint, what would you like to see happen in

Michigan to try to make it a better place for Michiganers? At the end of 2026 selection in November,

I would like to see that we have a, you know, a conservative house in Senate and a governor. Yeah. And that would help. And then after that, I want to bring back right to work. I want to get rid of prevailing wage. I want to start clawing back things that give more freedoms and opportunity to the citizens of Michigan, con reform, when it comes to health care. I don't think the government should have a good of need. So yeah, sorry, it's a difficult need. You know,

a hospital shouldn't have to get a permission slip from from the government to put an x-ray machine in their thing. And again, I have my wife, several of my daughter-in-laws, my son as a nurse, his wife as a nurse, lots of nieces and nephews are all nurses in the industry, my sister. And I see the restrictions that put on them in the health care system. We need more doctors. We need reciprocity and licensing. We need foreign doctor stuff. I want to make all that stuff a reality in Michigan.

And it is going to take time. But we're building coalitions with people in Lansing. We're building coalitions with people businesses across the, in another industry, insiders and the grassroots. We can make that happen. We start having these relationships and these conversations. But it takes getting a legislature and a governor elected that want to, that want to play and in the sandbox nicely and let people have the freedoms and opportunity that

quite frankly is given to us by the Constitution. And they're supposed to guarantee it and they've been taken it away a little by little. And I want to stop that. That's a great goal. So, one of the things that's traced about you, you know, we're talking about housing and you, you built in remodeled houses. You know, you were talking about priorities with regards to the health care industry. And you, I know, you worked in medical sales and you also had

a lot of relatives who were working health care. And it, it traced me that different people come to your role. In this case, from what state directors, different ways. You know, mine was a normal, you know, like St. Luke's science. I worked for governors. I worked for members of Congress. I ran campaigns. I didn't hire, you know, it's got a regular pathway. But there's a lot of need to learn. You know, there's a lot of things I did know from politics.

But there's a lot of need to learn going to that job. And it seems to be like, you seem like the right guy in the right leader at this time. You have a base of knowledge and kind of a way that

“you carry yourself for this time and Michigan. And I think that's one of the fascinating things”

about, you know, when we talk to you and your colleagues to understand how people come to be involved and to be successful. You know, looking back, would you have done anything differently or would you have coach yourself differently in terms of like choices you made or paths you'd said to take?

All right. So I have a sports medicine degree. I started a construction company. Did that.

Then when the economy was banned 2009, we shut that down for a little bit. And that's when I went and sold orthopedic sales. Through a lot of prayer and discussion with my wife and kids and family trying to change myself. These a couple of different times really stretched me, grew me.

“There was struggles at time for sure. But I think those things made me a better person.”

Made me more affable. Made me more a better listener. And I think, again, like I said before,

politics is all about relationships. And I don't have to be right. I don't have to win all the time. I don't have to be, you know, the biggest loudest voice in the room. But I do want to listen to people. And I think when you show that caring side that you, you're not going to get run over all, you don't want to get, you know, rolled over all the time. But you're willing to listen and see

what's the best for a community or for a family or for a school. And you take that approach to

politics. It's no different than any other relationship. And that was the same thing in business or

“in marriage and in different relationships that you have. You have to be a good listener. You have to be”

willing to compromise. Like I said before, and I think that's the approach I've had. So I wouldn't change anything. I don't think I've worked a day in my life. I'd love what I do. My family likes it. They see the joy that I have in getting up every morning, whether when it was building homes, when it was selling orthopedics, although, you know, two o'clock in the morning, you fix a broken hip, wasn't all that fun. But now, just the joy that I have in doing this,

and the people I get to work with are fantastic. Everyone in this organization from top to bottom, I can't say anything bad about them. They're very willing to help. But they all have the same vision and golden and or star, and they know that we can accomplish that if we're working together. And I just, I'd love everything about this organization. Well, we're certainly glad you're the

“right man leading us in the, leading our efforts in Michigan. It's such an important state. There's no”

more important state when you put it all together for us across the, in the nation with the good apologetics and super glad that you're doing that for me, because it's frustrating you're with us, man. Appreciate it. Thanks. Well, folks, if you like this episode, please be sure to like and subscribe to our channels on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. No, just remember, Liberty and Freedom are easily taken for granted. Don't take it for granted. Go out there and defend freedom of liberty.

Thanks for joining us and we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you for listening to American Potential. You may listen to more stories from Americans working every day to expand freedom and opportunity in their communities by visiting of americanpotential.com.