Utah AG Derek Brown Fights Back Against Federal Overreach on Public Lands

No, I know.

“No, we just have this and not to get into too much of the legal weeds, but the reality is the president can designate a monument.”

And under the law, he can basically say, "Okay, this is something of historic or scientific importance."

And I can draw a little line around that and protect that area. Well, what the presidents have done, like Obama and Clinton, they both designated these monuments that were massive. So think of it like the power says, "Look, this is a priceless painting. We empower you as a president to have a frame around the painting." And instead, the president says, "Okay, and I'm also going to draw a fence around the neighborhood where the museum is located." Yeah, right.

Nobody would go, well, you can't do that. Right. The most recent victory we had in the tenth circuit quarter of a pill is just as last week was the court saying, "No, no, no, no, no." Present powers not unlimited. There needs to be some check on that power.

Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American Potential. Everyone, welcome to the American Potential Podcast. I'm your host, David Frost. One of the things that makes America so unique is that you can travel from one end of the country to the other. And every region has its own story, its own landscape and really its own way life.

“While we get to enjoy the country, did you know that in many of the western states where the half of the land is owned or managed by the federal government?”

That means state and local officials really have a limited authority over the land. But some of those states are pushing back, arguing they should have a bigger role in deciding how those lands are managed and used. Today, we're taking a closer look at the debate. And my colleague Heather Andrews was able to sit down with Utah's attorney general Derek Brown at Americans for Prosperities, let freedom ring concert. To talk about this and what the state is doing.

Tell her. Thanks, David. We're coming to you live from Salt Lake City again at the let freedom ring celebration of America's 250th. And I'm sitting down with someone who's taken on one of the biggest fights in the west here in Utah. The federal government owns over 70% of the state. So think about that. Seven out of ten acres in the state of Utah are controlled from Washington, DC. My guest decided that that's probably a little too much and took the fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

He's a constitutional lawyer. He's clerked for federal appeals judge and worked on Capitol Hill for three, three U.S. senators, three U.S. And now he's Utah's attorney general elected in 2024. He's also someone I call a friend Derek Brown. Welcome to American potential. Thanks for being here. I appreciate that. Good to be here. Yes, you're also like have all the musical and acting talent in your family. That was music's the backup in case the law thing doesn't work out.

So we probably get actually get into the length but I want to talk to you about that. So I want, you know, you've made your kind of whole career based around constitution.

“So what first pulled you towards constitutional law?”

Well, it is, I mean, it is for first of all it's passing. I love it. But all of our.

I'll tell you the thing that I love about the constitution is it is the structure around which everything is based in our country. I mean, a lot of people would you say what makes you the country so great. They'll say, well, it's the bill of rights or whatever, but every country, even North Korea has a bill of rights. We have a structure that protects our rights and that's the constitution. And so everything for me flows from that constitution.

Absolutely, that's great. And then so tell me a lot of people don't even know you've got the title attorney general. Yeah, what's that mean? Like what, what is your job look like? What is an attorney general? I get asked that by lawyers literally all the time. They'll be like, wait, okay. And then of course, look left to look right to make sure nobody's watching. Like, hey, what does an AG actually do? Well, the short way, the easy way to look at it is we have about we are the states law firm.

So anytime the state is involved in litigation at all, it is with my office. My office defense, my office files lawsuits. We have about 320 lawyers about 600 people total. So it really is the state's largest law firm. So when we are sued by the federal government or when we sue the federal government or private sector company, we sue or anyone involves the state in any litigation, that's my job. So there's a lot of political things we do. We work with the administration right now,

which it's great to have an administration that's willing to work with us. Right. But that's any of that interplay on the law, that's my office. And I love it. It is so much fun.

Yeah, I was going to say, so you could, you could basically have done anything.

So what, why was that? Like what is the itch you need to scratch your why, yeah, why attorney general. But part of it is it's an opportunity to make a difference and and really, I mean, one of the things I carry about as federalism.

I mean, the structures I mentioned of the constitution is critical.

The 10th Amendment basically says, and people don't realize this, but it's a limited constitution, right? I mean, it's we call it a numerator powers. Meaning if it's in the constitution, the federal government can do it. Anything else really, it's the states.

“And so that's why you mentioned the lands issues with the, you know,”

two thirds of our state owned by the federal government. I mean, I think that's, well, here's a funny side note. I did a presentation to a group of attorney general across the country on this issue. And so these are the AGs from, you know, states from all the way from the West Coast to the East Coast. And I mentioned, you know, two thirds of our state is owned by the federal government.

And afterwards, I have an AG that came up to me from an East Coast state. And he said, you know what's funny? He goes, I want to talk to you about that. It sounds like you actually said two thirds of your state. How much is it really?

And I looked into, I said two thirds just like I said. He couldn't believe it. Most people do not understand what that means, but no. And that's what I was going to say. Like, that was going to be my next question.

It's like, I think people get the idea that that means like maybe a national parker too. But when you put it at, you know, as two thirds, or when you actually look at the map, and it shows like how the majority of the state or over the majority of the state is owned by the federal government. Yeah, it's, it's insane. Well, and you get counties in Utah, like, like my father-in-law lives in Garfield County, paying which.

So we go out there all the time. Maybe that's where we're going for the fourth. We love being down there. Garfield County is roughly 93% federal lands.

So what that means is the most powerful person in those counties in Utah.

It's not the commissioners or the elected officials. It's whoever gets appointed to head the Bureau of Land Management in that area. And so what is, it tells, what is the problem with that then?

“Like, why is it so important and critical that it's managed by, you know, like, you know, by us in the state or have, you know, having state control versus federal control?”

Why is that so important? I think it's, it's, this is the concept I believe in. And this is the, the federalism, the most core concept in federalism is that the person closest to the problem should be the one empowered to solve it. And so when you have millions of acres of land that get basically taken away from Utah and given to federal bureaucrats, like they may do their best. But, you know, the bureaucrats in DC aren't going to do as well as the commissioners in Garfield County when it comes to protecting land.

They know, for instance, what it takes to do controlled burns and manage, you know, the force land in such a way that fires don't ravage the state, which is exactly the problem we're seeing right now in Utah. And so for me, that's, it's really an issue of of the person closest to it should have control. And that's why, I mean, we've got a big lawsuit right now on federal lands involving monuments. And this has been going on for a long time because we've had presidents that have declared monuments and effectively taken millions of acres right out of the middle of Utah.

I mean, the most recent monument was basically the size of Delaware, right? And it's just scooped up taking away from Utah right in the middle. And how does that affect the communities there? How does it affect like paint that picture? Because I don't think people back east, like you said, even understand what that means and what that looks like.

“Right. Well, and here's the thing is, I mean, under our structure of the Constitution, the president has the authority to do that.”

But the president doesn't have the authority to, to allocate resources appropriation like money. Right. So for the president to say, okay, I'm going to take, you know, roughly 2.1 million acres. I'm going to call it bears ears. I'm going to scoop it out of the state of Utah. Okay. Now that requires a lot of management, a lot. He doesn't have the purse strings to do that. That's another branch. So he did that and now the tourism went up like crazy.

But those counties are still responsible for things like, you know, somebody gets lost in one of those monuments hiking. Who does search and rescue in, like, the grand staircase that's going on? Monument. Garfield County.

Who pays for it? Garfield County. So that's part of the problem is it's in any area of government.

The person closest to the elected official closest to the problem should be the one really that I think solves it. Yeah. Absolutely. Powered to solve it. Right. Absolutely. Well, okay. So where does the fight stand today? It with the courts. Like, how is the battle going?

Do you feel like we're winning this fight? Do you feel like we're making progress? Okay. Well, we are absolutely, we just had this last week. Like, I don't know the people realize this. We just had one of the biggest legal victories in the last.

No, I don't know. Yeah.

So no, this, we just had this and not to get into too much of the legal weeds, but the reality is the president can designate a monument.

And under the law, he can basically say, okay, this is something of historic or scientific importance. And I can, he can draw a little line around that and protect that area. Well, what the presidents have done, like Obama and Clinton, they both designated these monuments that were massive. So think of it like the power says, look, this is a priceless painting. We empower you as a president to have a frame around the painting.

And instead, the president says, okay, and I'm also going to draw a fence around the neighborhood where the museum is located. Yeah, right. Nobody would go, well, you can't do that. Right. Well, what's happened is presidents have done that legally. We've challenged it and the courts until now here in Utah have said, nah, you can't challenge it. President has unlimited power. Well, presidents shouldn't have unlimited power.

So the most recent victory we had in the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals just as last week was the court saying, no, no, no, no, no. Presence powers not unlimited. There needs to be some check on that power, which is what we've argued all along. So that's where we are. It's a step in the right direction. It's not like a final victory, obviously, but it is a, it is a legal victory that says, all right, now we can talk about, I mean, what should the boundaries of these monuments in Utah be?

“And that's what we've been trying to argue all along.”

Let's talk about whether the boundaries of the right boundaries. So anyway, that's a long answer. No, that's not what we're looking at. This is what, I mean, this is such a huge issue. Absolutely. Yes. And it affects so many people in the state of Utah.

And we have like, in addition to that lawsuit, we probably have no one really knows this, but we've got probably another 50 lawsuits dealing with the roads in Southern Utah, which are, you know, and it's the same kind of thing is who should be in charge of maintaining these roads? And who gets the power to say what happens and control them? Absolutely.

And those fights have been going off for like two decades. Time, long time. Well, for the, for the personal listening that wants to help, or wants to, you know, like, Yeah, getting involved, what would you say is there a way that they can do that? Is there anything that we can do to help you with this?

Well, I mean, the reality is we have, we have different groups in Utah,

but, you know, we have a lot of elected officials who are very involved. I mean, my job is to do the legal fight. Absolutely. But part of it is to be aware that this is going on because this is an ongoing battle. And it really is for, I mean, I would say just be, be aware of the issues be educated

on what it looks like and why federalism ultimately matters. Because this very fight that we're having in lands. Right. We're also having in Have Had in every other area of the law. I have, so I have hundreds of lawsuits and so many of them.

You know, it's the same concept, but like on-- I'm back to states, right? Yes. Yes. Should the federal government, right?

“And so should we have that authority on things like the waters in the state of Utah?”

Or are air, you know, the clean air act or-- I mean, businesses with trade and commerce. I mean, like-- Right. This is going on.

This issue is the same thing, writ large everywhere. You're right. It goes on and on. Yes. Well, thank you for all the work you're doing. Really appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you for being with us this evening. Really appreciate that and taking time. Happy to.

That was our first speech that you gave for the event.

Really appreciate the history lesson. That was wonderful. That was wonderful. Yes. 250 years.

Yes, it is. It's a big milestone. Yes. Well, thank you. Thank you, Doug Brown.

You bet. Thank you. Good to be here. All right. And if you enjoyed this episode and want to stay in the fight,

then do us a favor, like and subscribe. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

“And always remember, Liberty and Freedom are easy to take for granted.”

Don't take them for granted. Get out there and defend them. Thank you so much and see you on the next episode. Thank you for listening to American Potential. You may listen to more stories from Americans working every day to expand freedom and opportunity in their communities,

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