Jennie Garth

I'm Jack Shepherd, I'm joined by Monica Padman. - Hi. - Today we have boy, we were just saying in the fact check, if you were to told me in '95, this day was gonna happen, I just want to believe you.

- You never believe it. - Jenny Gorth. - Donna Martin, graduate. - She's not Donna Martin, of course, but yes. We loved Donna Martin, graduate.

- Yes. - Yeah. - Jenny Gorth is an actor, a cultural icon, and an advocate Beverly Hills, 192 and 0. - Oh.

- And it will get into it in the episode, but if you're listening in your under 30, you don't know how big this show is. - Yeah. - There is no show is big as this show is going on.

- I know. - It's wild. - Also, 192 and 0, what I like about you, a kindhearted Christmas, and she has a memoir that we are going to talk about, extensively called "I Choose Me."

- She's got a life, man. - That's a line from an episode of Beverly Hills. - Woo!

“- Remember there was a love triangle between her”

and Dylan, and she chose her? - Wow. - Please enjoy Jenny Gorth. - Thank you to our presenting sponsor HP for supporting this episode.

Their HP Smart Tank printer is the last printer you'll ever need. Oh, here we go Monica. With the refillable ink tank, and up to three years of ink included, so you get thousands of pages of cartridge free printing.

Hallelujah. To learn more, search for HP Smart Tank. (upbeat music) - You were gonna bring Monica something? - Well, and you.

- It's all right, if it's fine. - Just go, go, go, go, go, go, go. - I do love murmurs. - Yeah. - You're a slave to murmurs.

- I really am. (laughing) - Really am. - Where were you coming from? - Pasadena.

- Is that where you live? - Yeah. - I like Pasadena, have you gotten interested in the history of Pasadena since moving there?

- There are so many historical, amazing.

- The states. - Building, and Houston's historical. - Oh, yeah. I've been there. - Are you happy?

- How does wrong with you? - You are. - You gotta go. - I don't eat meat. It's okay.

That my husband really wants to go there. So I think maybe you gotta go. - No. - It's okay, they have great salads. - I just think in the season,

he's great. You wouldn't think it, but the sushi's outrageous. - It's so good. - Yeah. - Houston's?

- Yeah. - You'll be right. You're gagling. - You're counterintuitive. - I mean, I don't need sushi either,

but I'm sure I can find something. - You're gonna find something you're gonna love it. How strict are you on your vegetarianism? Because I go with two of my friends and one of them is a vegetarian.

We would always get the spinach artichoke dip.

She can have that. And it's the best thing on the planet. And then one day she came and she said,

“"I think there's chicken stock in this,"”

and then she asked, and there was. And now she can't eat it. - It's not your stock. - It really stinks when you find foods that you love so much.

You're like, "Wait, this has some hidden dairy in it." - So stock, we don't mess with it. - We draw the line. I don't need hardly anything you guys do. - You don't need your post eating.

- I'm done with it. - Yeah, I'm done with it. Like, I'm done with it. - Yeah, that's too much work. - What energy?

- I've never been a foodie, so that's helpful. - Are you vegetarian or vegan? - Vegan. - Oh my God, all the way. - Yeah, that's how long.

- If you're gonna do something, do it. - How long have you been doing it? But I went off of it when I had kids, so I was eating for them, eating chicken and stuff. - That was Kristen's first meet.

She was pregnant, and she called me as a restaurant. And she said, "Order me the bison meatloaf sandwich." I was like, "You haven't eaten me in 32 years." She goes, "Delta wants a bison meatloaf sandwich." - You gotta give it to them what they want.

- Yeah, yeah. - I wanna chicken McNuggets. - Out of health or concern for animals.

“- I grew up on a farm in Illinois where my job”

would kill our pigs for the dinner table.

I just never loved that, but I pork chops.

Because I was told to. And then I just got to the place where I'm like, "Nobody's tell me what to eat anymore." So when I was away from the home, I would eat lucky charms and Taco Bell constantly.

'Cause then I was just like, "Woohoo, freedom from my mom "who only let us eat healthy things." Now just as an adult, I feel like at this phase in my life, I just wanna take the best possible care I can of myself. So scared of dying.

So when you have sudden loss around you, unexpected out of nowhere loss, it just happened again this last week. You really go, whoa, okay. Priorities, I wanna take the best care of myself.

I can't, and I love it. I love feeling clean and healthy and waking up clear. - Yeah, yeah, okay, back to Illinois. Yeah, you were on like a 25-acre farm. You're the youngest of seven?

- Yes. - But you're the only child of your dad and your mom. - It's very pretty bunch. And then I was like, all the first. (laughing)

- Oh, yeah. - He was even there. But yeah, I was the only one by both my parents. So I was the baby. - What was the relationship with the siblings?

- They love their new dad so much, my father.

They were excited to have a little baby. - Okay, good. - I was everybody's little baby. - The oldest one was what? 20 some years older than you or something?

- Yeah.

“- And dad didn't have custody of those six kids or did he?”

- He had his own children. He had two sons and a daughter. And he ended up adopting my mom's kids. - I got it, so your mom had kids as well. It was a true Brady bot.

- Yeah, she had three girls and he had two sons and a girl. - Oh, wow. - Because you had a mix of step. No, they're all half. But two different sets.

Well, this is something for me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You guys move when you're 13 or something to Arizona to Glendale? What prompted that move?

- The weather in Illinois is really harsh. Very hard winters. And my father had developed heart disease, cardiovascular disease. So they determined that that was too hard on his heart,

the cold weather and he liked to work outside and was just too much for him. - What do you do for a living? - He was an educator. Both my parents were teachers.

He taught adult education. He actually started adult education in the state of Illinois in the 70s. And he loved what he did.

He loved teaching adults who had never had the opportunity

or the privilege of learning how to read. - These people like getting their GD, is that what that is? - There are people that just wanna learn how to read. - Wow. - Well, not even any necessary goal in mind.

- No, I just think to have a better life. - So when you guys move to Arizona, they both get jobs as teachers in Arizona. - No, my mom had done shockly. I've never heard of that.

It's very well done. - Well, in vitamins. - Yes, yes. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a multi-level marketing. - Yes, yes.

- She got so good at it that she ended up getting a pink catalac from a catalac. That's very rare to do with that word. - They were like, it works at Mary Kay. - We're gonna go fuck with her.

- Yeah, don't need to reinvent that. - Oh my god. - But she left that and then she started another MLM in Arizona. I don't remember what that one was. So as your garage is filled with items,

“that's what we learn about people in MLMs.”

Their garage is just like filled with the vitamins or the drink. - The stock. - My mom had a whole stock room. I loved to organize things from a very young age.

So I would go in there and organize all the vitamins and the packets and the soup packets and the shake packets. - Yeah. - And the packets have a distinct smell.

- Chocolate? - Yeah, so some of course got my parents in their target. We own chat, I don't think anyone ever took them. But when I was just open the cabinet or the shackle, these were like I was hit

with this middle smell. - Distinct. - For a grant. - Especially the soup. - Oh, so was a shackle making the soup as well?

- It's powdered soup. - I actually liked it. - It did. - That was good. - It was pretty good.

- It was like cream of chicken or soup. - Oh wow. - It's powdered. - I don't think that's an intuitive extension of products.

- I agree. - The vitamins and go to soup. Maybe a shampoo or conditioner that had vitamins in it. - Well, maybe the soup had the vitamins crushed up. - Maybe what?

- How had to have been good for you? - Yeah. - Yeah, I had had too. - And was she making money? 'Cause we've had an MLM expert on.

In the percentage of people who actually make money is very, very, very small.

“But was she crushing, was she making a lot of money?”

- Yeah, she was making enough money. I don't think a lot of money was ever made but she loved doing it. It made her feel alive and she's really great with people. So she loved it.

- When you moved to Arizona, he's not taking a teaching job there. She's the primary and only breadwinner at that point. - At that point, yes, because he had had a massive heart attack which prompted us to leave Illinois.

So for a while, she was taking care of supporting him and me. The other girls were already out of the house. She's a hustler, so she did what she had to do for sure. - When do you start dancing in entering pageants? - That must have been my eighth grade or my freshman year.

There was like a little dance to do on our corner. Well, we forgot about this. Okay, my mom and dad got separated.

I never really understood it because I was so mad about it

but he moved up to Prescott, Arizona. - I don't like how they pronounce that just so much. - Prescott, Prescott. - Prescott, Prescott. - It's Prescott.

- It's Prescott. - Right. - They say Prescott. - Prescott, like it's a biscuit. I never like it either.

- Yeah, but he went up to Prescott. - He went up to Prescott. - How does little farm up there and was living a quiet life? He didn't like the city. - You don't have any sense of what prompted that?

- I really stayed out of their relationship and I had a room upstairs. I tried to stay away from it. I don't like to get into other people's business unnecessarily.

- Okay. - Is it a fight? - I never really saw them fight. No. - I am so curious.

Something can't be going on and I don't know what it is. I have to know what's going on. And if Dad left, I'd say to mom, like, what just happened? - I think I was a teenager. Like, I was pretty, some of them served in my own world.

In my own head a lot. Maybe it's a self-protective mechanism too

because if you find out, maybe the answer is something

you really don't want to know. And maybe you knew that on some level. Like, I don't really want to know. - I think so. And I was upset at my mom.

But then I would go spend time with my dad up in Prescott and I'd be so bored.

- But like, ugh. So this makes a little more sense because when I learned that you and mom moved to LA at 16, something precedes that you're at a pageant and you meet a manager in this again

and you say it in the book. My most accounts, this is a dicey scenario, right? So explain what happens at the pageant. - I was like 15 and I was in a pageant to like a one time deal.

I thought it was for dance scholarships. I could go to college and become a dance teacher or dancer. Turns out it wasn't that good. But I did dance as my talent in that show.

And it was in like Loughlin Nevada or something. He was one of the judges. Somebody had called in a favorite. I haven't said, can you come be a judge for me? I can't do it.

He lived in New York City. He was the head of casting. So he said to his wife, yeah, let's go do it for my friend and we'll have a trip out of it. So he had brought his wife,

which made it a little less weird. - Yeah. - But he did come up to us. - Scott was... - His name is Randy.

- Oh, Randy. James, and we call him Mr. Showbiz, but he's a legend. I've been with him ever since, since I was 15 years old. - That's crazy.

“And he says, I think you could be in Showbiz.”

But this is a middle age man saying, yeah. - Yeah. - You're all grown a page and I think you'd be in Showbiz. Like alarm bells are normally going off.

- Oh, for sure. My mom was right there with me and his wife was right there. It was actually her Kelly's idea for him to approach me. 'Cause he was in casting.

Like he was always looking for the next thing.

- I have a question. If you're the baby of the family and you're blonde and cute, and then you go into pageants, do you start sensing your value is your cuteness?

And what does that do? If we've explored that, to be the object of such affection in that way and to be kind of getting told your values, this cuteness, how does that set your own?

- It's all the same. - In identity. - It does affect it, for sure. Once I moved to Hollywood and started becoming a success. So young, then it's when I really start to recognize it

and have a lot of thoughts in my head about it. - I think every kid should get a door, and I also think you can be too adored. I think I may danger us to get too adored. - It is.

I don't like being adored. - And also I can imagine once the family adoration stops, it's like there's this big hole that you've only been formatted for that. You now need that.

- Right, I needed to go seek it from boys. I wanna just get it from girls

that never really worked out in junior high in high school.

So I was just isolated and would really just try to get it from the boys. I had a boyfriend. - What grade? Right or the grade?

- Freshman year. He was a senior. - None of middle school junior high? - No, well I did kiss Ray Padilla. - Can you graduate Ray?

- He graduated Ray. - Yeah, good. - Good for her. - Was he your age or was he older? - He was older, much older.

- 28. (laughing) - He was a lot of the way and these age. - He was only in high school. - He was hot.

- Yeah, that's fine. But then yeah, you're in a loop of getting validation. You know that's where you can get it. Quick hit. - Yeah, you start to seek that, I guess.

- Of course. - As much as you hated it, it's this weird dichotomy

“because that's what you think your worth is.”

Like you go to that like a heat-seeking missile, but at the same time it repulses you. - You want to be appreciated and adored for other qualities, but that's not what's being offered. - We all want what we don't.

- Yeah, we want what we don't have.

- Yeah, this is always green.

- But I will say the thing that was rewarded to me, I'm a little bit more in control of it, right? Like I can generate comedy. - Funny. - Yeah, in comedy doesn't have a shelf,

although it does a little bit. In general, I can pursue that. So it's interesting to think I wanted, I guess I'm probably more grateful that the only thing I got

really applauded for was being clever. - Yeah, I would have rather be applauded for being clever. - I wish I was just hot. (laughing) - Same.

(laughing) - I didn't know what I was other than that. I did okay in school, so I wasn't like the smart one, but I was just the baby and the cute one, and the one that everybody wanted to take out.

- Ta-ch and pick up and squeeze cheeks over. - Right, you know, when you're trying to figure out who you are as a young teen, that starts to really happen, I think. I didn't get a sense of who I was outside of that.

- But then this career path presents itself, which is perfect. You've kind of been hand built for you to be good at this thing. So he says this, you could have a future. - Until you're a credit, you take it serious, you start taking acting classes.

- I don't know why. I had never wanted to be an actress. I never saw, oh, I want to be famous. I didn't play and see it at all. I didn't know anything about it,

but I guess I just saw it as an opportunity. Any time I've ever seen an opportunity in my life, I go for it and do my best. I have a very strong work ethic from my parents and growing up on a farm like that.

So I just really throw myself into something. And my mom was supportive and said, though, that could be interesting and fun, let's do it. She moved out here with me. That explained the separation's not in the book.

“And I'm like, how did dad handle that mom's moving to LA?”

- They did a lot of back and forth.

So she moved back to be with him and take care of him.

“- Okay, so you get to LA is it exciting or terrifying?”

- I didn't know enough to be terrified, honestly. I'm from a farm in Illinois and I lived in Phoenix for a couple years, but I didn't know what I was getting into on any level. I had posters of Madonna in my bedroom and I was little in Michael Jackson and Mary Lou Retten.

- She was the queen. - Yeah. - Remember her McDonald's commercials? She was in a course of that. - Yeah, yeah.

- I didn't really know about fame or acting or the whole world of an actress or an actor. I just jumped in. - And pretty quickly, you're on growing pains before you're 18, right?

I mean, that was the show.

- I think that was my first or second job.

- Did you interface with Kurt Cameron? - I did in a very odd way. - I was a girl in a car next to him and his car and with his buddies, I had one line in the whole show. Well, it was actually three words, sticky, sticky, sticky.

No idea why? That was my line. - Okay. - Also, what a blessing as far as the first line you got a memory room.

- Oh, great. - It's the same as the one word you got the memory room. - One word you got the memory room. - One word you got the memory room. - One word, one word you got the memory room.

- One word you got the memory room. - One word you got the memory room. - One word you got the memory room. - One word you got the memory room. - One word you got the memory room.

- One word you got the memory room. (laughing) - Oh, yeah, yeah, so that was my first and then I did a Barbara Eden show where I played her daughter, which I was beside myself with excitement because she was genie, you know?

- Yeah, yeah. - I'm watching her on, I dream of genie. - Also, I would imagine your drawn to like matriarchs. Your mom's a breadwinner. Then you meet the swimming she's a star of her own shows.

She's had this other success. I'd imagine it's appealing to see women being self-sufficient. - Yeah, I was so inspired by my mom and her. They've made life happen. Back to Kirk Cameron, there wasn't a girl in America

that didn't think he was cute in my right. - I don't think so. I wasn't even a fan of the show. - They were ruled dead the ones that. (laughing)

- I wasn't like a big Kirk Cameron fan or anything. - Oh, you weren't. - No, I watched the pretty bunch. I drew cheeky, gilligan's island. - Green acres?

- Green acres? Beverly Hillbillies? - Yeah, great for her. - My gosh. (laughing)

- Also, I've no clue when those originally aired 'cause when we were watching them, they were reruns the daytime when you stayed home from school. - I didn't know if they came from the 30s or the 60s

or the 40s. - No idea. - Still don't know when. - Probably should look better. - Beverly Hillbillies, it was in black and white.

- Yeah. - Until it wasn't. - When the fuck was that show main? 'Cause I was watching it in '82. - Yeah.

- It had been the 70s.

“I think the Brady Bunch was probably 70s.”

- At least stylistically it's a gilligan. - That turned the color. - Full 70s. Orange, everything, shade, carpet. The haircuts, the fucking bell bottoms.

- Yeah. - But these other, like a farm show, he can't set it with the style. The Beverly Hillbillies, everyone's dressing. Tuxedo's Orts.

- Cilly Hillbillie Clows. - Yeah. - Grape's a Wrath Clows. - Like the witch. That was probably the 50s, right?

- I think 60s Darren looked very 60s mod. - Right. - I think 30s. - What's that show nowadays? - Oh man, man.

- Oh yeah. - Thank you. - Also weirdly, you did a show that Jason Prisley was on. Before, nine on two and a. - Yes, yes.

- What was that? - We met on a set called Teen Angel Returns. - Oh. - Say it again. - Teen Angel Returns.

He was a Teen Angel. - Yeah, he was. - Who would come down and help people. - Sure. - Usually girls.

- Oh. - He's really beautiful. (laughing) - There was barely a Teen Angel one. - Right.

- Because he wanted to return. - Okay. - Yeah, so I met him on that and we instantly fell into this great rhythm of brother sister energy.

- He's older than you or the similar age. - He's a little older. - He was a little more seasoned, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, Star of the movie. - Yeah.

- He was a Teen Angel movie? - Yeah, yeah. - But he was just cool. He was just so nice. Nice sky on earth.

- Well, now he's where I went to back up. The book Weirdly is an outgrowth of a podcast which is Weirdly a growth of re-watching. - Right. - Nine or two enough.

- Yeah. - Explain why you didn't watch it originally.

- Well, first of all, we were always working.

16, 18 hour days. You go home, you sleep, you get up a five, and you come right back. Everyone was pretty much there every day. - Yeah, I imagine they weren't being helpful.

I could be being in all day. - And we had no say in anything. So we just sit around and wait in our little dressing rooms or our little honey wagon.

“And I think they wanted us together all the time,”

which probably really helped the energy between us. - I hope then hurt, I think as we'll find that. - Yeah, a little bit of both. So I never watched it. - I didn't.

- I would see daily sometimes. That would be plenty for me. Like I've never been one to love sitting down until recently. But I would just get to in my head, feel too insecure.

- Projects? - Yes, feel like who I don't know her, what is that? - What am I doing? Am I making any choices? I'm doing it.

- Yeah, yeah. - So you sat down to watch it because you were gonna do a podcast or rewatch podcast.

My first curiosity is like we all have this real in our head

of what things look like and felt like from our past.

like if I could go back and watch myself at 18,

I guarantee it wouldn't match that well with what my memory has corrupted it to be now. Were you having any kind of disjointed like, oh my God, this is not. - Well, it's weird because I was going back

and looking at my younger self, but that wasn't me. That was a character in a world that was produced. It's weird to watch, yes, that's me playing that character as young girl.

But also that girl had no idea who she was. It's hard for me to really identify. But when I did go back to watch the very first episode, I was really moving because I had so much sympathy for that young girl,

'cause I could see past the character, past the scene to the core of the person. - You were seeing the nervousness. - The nervousness, the insecurity, the fear, just all the things.

- How about even physically? Were you like, oh, I looked different than I thought I looked at that time. - I don't think so. I had definitely better appreciation for those years.

- Right, I was like, wow, look at her go. - Yeah. - Here's my example.

I was always like, I got to get in better shape, right?

This is constantly. And then I'll see pictures of it like 19. I'm like, you were crazy. - You were crazy. - I mean, yeah.

- I know, you were always worried about, I was like, but too big or what's in my heart? He's not right. You can look back and say like, what a waste of energy that was. But I don't think you can escape it.

- And I wasted that. - You have to feel that. - But even worse, you're like, fuck, I should have been enjoying you.

“- You should have been in the middle of a list of, yeah.”

- It's shutting around in a banana hand. - I should have wore more speedos. - Yeah. - What were those words? - They're short.

- Similarly, I watched parenthood with my kids. I hadn't seen it and probably eight years or something or nine years. And when I watched it and they laughed the entire way through, I just cried the whole time.

I just remember how much I loved, Peter and May, and all these people, and Craig T. Nelson, I was just like, oh my God, I got to spend like the most precious time with these people, and I just was overwhelmed

with what a sweet thing that was.

And I just was so emotional for like the first three episodes.

I couldn't get over it. We have in any of those swelly feelings. - Definitely because what a great group of people, and we all took for granted that we got to live that life together. And also there's just this invisible string

that connects us all. - And two of the cast members have passed. - At that point, one of them had passed, I believe. - Shannon had no idea. - No, I didn't know. - No, I didn't know.

- Okay, so yeah, when you're seeing him, is it heartbreaking? - Yeah, it was definitely very hard to watch. I couldn't really watch, but then I started to get really sucked in to the storyline.

- Oh, the plot was-- - And then all I wanted to see was Dylan. - Yeah! - Yeah, I want to see a woo more girls. - Yeah.

(laughing) - So good at it. I remember they wouldn't see me for it. I didn't have that much resume, you know? - Angel returns, wasn't I?

- No, wasn't enough. - Apparently, the growing pains didn't get me in there. - What was your three words? - Stinky Stinky Stinky. - Stinky Stinky.

- Stinky for God. - I know. - You would not have booked it. - Where is that tape though, and they put it in. - Stinky Stinky Stinky, I'm not gonna end it real.

- It's not your way, I'm gonna end it. - I don't care. I don't care until the other side of the planet, let's get her. - No, but Mr. Schoob is Randy my manager.

“Was friends with Tony, I can't remember his last name,”

but he was the head of spelling casting. So they were friends, you know, in business, and he called Tony and said, "I heard you, "you don't wanna see her, but please, "he was like, "do this for me as a friend."

So I went in to see him in his office, and then from his office, we went in to Mr. Spelling's office. - Wow. - Where there were like, I don't know, it felt like 50 men, but it was probably 10, maybe eight probably.

- And did you audition in front of him? - And all those people, yeah. - How nerve-wracking was that? - Extremely, yeah. - Yeah, how do you suppose you did well enough?

That seems overwhelming at that stage. - I don't know. - I was just so distracted. There was like bulls of cigarettes out. - Great.

- So old school kids and then him and his pipe and them all just like, it's daring. And I don't know, I just went into some sort of beast mode and did my scene. - What have you disassociated a bit?

- Oh yeah, that's something I should do a lot. - Yeah. - It can be helpful. - Yes.

“But I remember leaving that building with Randy,”

we were walking back to our car and I heard someone say, "Hey, Jenny, "and I turned around and it was Aaron hanging out the window." He went like that. - That's awesome.

- Oh, oh. - Thank God you didn't fall out the window. - I know, it was like a big opening too. (laughs) He's a tiny man.

- And this is back in the day, obviously, you went and did a pilot. And then you got to wait to see if it gets picked up. It sounds like you're very naive. Did you have a sense of what was coming?

Did you even consider like, what were the goals that they're like, oh, I hope they ordered 13, so I get paychecks? - I had no understanding of the workings of the business.

- Now, we'll wait and see. Okay, cool. - Was it fun making the pilot? Like, what are your memories of that? - Really fun, because I just stepped into a whole new world

of people my age. We were all there creating something together,

which I had never really experienced.

And all doing our parts individually and it's just really cool, really inspiring. Like, I thought this is a nice world to be a part of. - And there were varying levels of experience between all of you.

- You say in the book, Jason, previously was pretty immediately like the Patriarch. - He came from Sister Kate, which was a big show back then. And Shannon had worked on Heather's. She was on the House and the Prairie for God's sake.

So she had a lot of experience. - But had you seen Heather's? I was obsessed with Heather. - Ben, not seen Heather's. - You were on Brady once.

- Yeah, yeah. I didn't know. - She was both too much. (laughing)

“- But that's probably helpful because I think”

that would allow for more fraudulent feelings. If you've been like keeping up and you've seen Heather's and you like, "No, what's going on?"

I think you could show up and be like,

"I don't belong here." - Yeah. - But it's also, a lot to ask. A lot of 17-8-9-19-20-olds to wield their experience, ethically.

So if I were Shannon, I might think I'm too good for this. Did people come with attitudes? - The people that had experienced definitely felt as if they knew what they were doing a lot more. I did feel green.

I felt lucky to be there. - I did feel probably less than or inferior to some of the people in the cast, just innately. - But you were good at learning how to be the baby of a scenario, like were you able to own that

and let them take care of you? - I don't feel like there was a lot of taking care of. It was kind of like men and so it was done. Yeah. - Uh-huh.

- That's what I was curious about. Like the dynamics between all the people. - It's a lot of attention to share when you're that age. - Yeah, and it's humble. There's so many eyes on that show and people's favorites

and so much going on. - It got really difficult as the show went on after the first season. They started really sort of taking my character and Shannon's character and hitting them against one

of their in storyline. And then that would intern the media and intern the audience. And so that's when the whole girl against girl really

“became a parent that that's what we're doing here.”

- Yeah. They hone the sword on that and then when desperate houseways came along, they were like, "We know how to do this." - Yeah. - We're gonna all fight all the time.

- Sometimes though, even though it's not based in anything once it takes on a life of its own, it can start impacting the real dynamic between you two, no? - Yeah, unfortunately, we were young. I didn't know how to deal with that.

And I thought it was real. And I'm emoting and then the camera cuts and it's a little odd because we just had a fight or some sort of really ugly words to one another. There wasn't internet then, it would have been a lot worse.

- No, it's a new imagine. - But it was so supported by the continued writing and then the fans, 'cause they used to send us out a lot. They used to send me out. I don't know if Shannon did a lot,

but I would go out. The guys would go out a lot and do signings, car shows, remember the days when they was sent you to a car show to sign our guests? - Sure, sure.

- I was stoked because I got a free car out of one of those. - Yeah, I did. - What did you get? - Oh my God. It was a gorgeous sparkly emerald green corvette.

- Oh, well you did it. - Oh my God. - It gave you a corvette? - Yes. - I know that color, that green.

This would've been like a 92 corvette or something. Mm-hmm. (upbeat music) Stay tuned for our share expert, if you dare. We are supported by HP.

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going to fill East North Brook, Illinois. (upbeat music) I wanna attempt to explain the size of Beverly Hills 9/0/0. I was saying to my kids, they often asked me who I'm interviewing or maybe the hermate

say to my wife, I was interviewing you. My wife goes like, oh, no, no, you guys was so big. You can't imagine. K-pop then plus song. So I looked up all the numbers

and to put it in reference, you guys maintained an 11 share for most of the 10 years, right? So currently the NFL, which is the biggest show on television by a factor of five,

gets like a 28232. Grey's an anime, gets a point four. That's wild. Yes, you guys were got an 11.

You had 20 million viewers a week

for like five of the 10 years. Right. There's no real compound modern television. No, it doesn't work. Work that way anymore.

So it's like when you're listening, you kind of got to imagine, you know, it's in the Taylor Swift air. It's like a totally phenomenal. That also lasted way beyond it.

It's like, I watched it. You watched it. I got it. Oh, wow. We're not supposed to be watched.

But I mean, I watched you as three. I watched reruns. Okay. So that's what I mean. It's still held.

It's value. My generation watched it. Is your mom probably watched it? Maybe, and then I hear that all the time. Yeah.

That is my mom's favorite show. I was obsessed with it. I was so obsessed with it. Oh, my God, I was into Troy, right? It came out when I would have been 15.

It was such a glitzzy world. The poor kids driving a 65 Mustang convertible. It's a pretty crazy. Dylan's driving a fucking convertible Porsche. Collector of the Chixie.

The mansions, everyone's hot. The dudes are cool. Like it was such wish for film. So many babies. Yeah.

Yes. If you're like in any place other than California, it's so exciting. You didn't have access to knowing what any of that world looked like. Exactly. There's no Instagram.

You're not seeing other people live this life. If you don't see it on TV or you don't take a vacation there, you don't see it. So your options were Baywatch and then this show to understand maybe what California this dream place was like.

“I was so captivated. I remember on a trip to L.A. when I was 20 years old, Aaron and I wanted”

to like see what the Viper room was and all the sudden coming out of the Viper room was Amber Thiesin at peak 902 and all the things and then she booted in the parking lot. Some guy from the show's screaming as to give him some privacy. But we don't care. Now like you have capacity for people to treat me terribly.

They're on TV. What's going on in this parking lot? I couldn't believe all exciting it was. So I was part of the problem for sure. People tell me I moved to America because of your show because they saw what they wanted

to live and they were like, "I'm going there." Yeah, they thought all of America was that. Yeah. So I didn't look up the international numbers but I bet they're absolutely shocking because I went on a year or all past when I was 19 and I was at Hostels and they played Baywatch

in 902 and also it was a hugely international show too, right? It was, we had so many different languages dubbed into our mouths. Yes. Okay. So after the first year, how are you adjusting?

You're clearly getting recognized everywhere you go. How is that experience? They sent me out on a couple events. Talk about the zoom on with you and in Luke. There were just thousands of people.

We definitely were animals in a zoo.

“That's what we felt like and they had us in, I think, was the bird enclosure to get to the”

signing area where they had set it up and we went and it was impossible because it was dangerous for the kids were pushing and shoving and screaming and fainting. Oh my god. There are lots of mayonnaise at these signings that had to get canceled. So many of them got canceled.

Yeah. Like, 10,000 people showed up at one mall. Terrifying. Because you're on those little riser things they put you up on and like a folding table and it's just shaking and rocking.

People are sweating and crying and passing out and like literally the medics are carrying people. Oh my god. She even would faint because of hotness because of looking as somewhat hot. Yeah.

That's like done. No, I see people. A concert dropping out still. Like, that's because they're on drugs. Rock stars can still get on that.

But they like when fans of the original show meet us, they don't know how to handle it. Well, yeah, from your point of view, if you didn't know the context and you're just looking out at the sea of people, you could only conclude there is a natural disaster happening outside.

“Really, you could happen to think that it was like a earthquake, right?”

It was pandemonium, and after that started happening, I started to develop a gorephobia.

Like, I never left my house.

Right. Yeah.

I wanted to go to the mall.

I wanted to do things that the food court told people were doing. Yeah. Yeah. But I just didn't. I got scared.

And then also, which could help or hurt you. So your father's heart condition gets worse. And you get a place in Sanana's Valley a ranch. Yeah, after a few years on the show, I got a ranch there. And you move them to the ranch.

They came from Arizona, they moved. So now do they get back together for this? Yeah, they were back together. Since my mom had gone back, and she was taking care of him, they had found this new empty Nestor rhythm.

And it was working for them, and they seemed very happy. And then I approved of them, and said, I need you.

I need something to keep me grounded and feeling like I know anything.

And so they moved to our north, and then I would go there all the time, instead of going out partying, I would go be with my parents. Wow. So you kind of missed all the weekend about tree that would happen with the other castments. Yeah.

The upside of that is like you didn't get any trouble, really. But would you get to work on Monday? Did you not have foam all?

“Would you be trying to find out like, oh, who did what?”

Yeah, I think there was internal foam all that you really didn't even know what that was. But I felt left out, but inside rationalizing it, like I don't want that. So it's okay. And that sounds like too much for me. I didn't know how to handle more.

That's wise at that age. Yeah, it was just like instinctual, I think, from where I came from. But even though it's a contradiction, I can see it being very natural, which is like, you've removed yourself from that. And then also you could feel like they're not including you.

Right. They're not including you or you're not cool. Did you have those feelings like, oh, they're cool when I'm not for this? It was hard because I would hear about what happened on the weekends and I would even see it in the press.

Yeah. And I would think, wow, I'm a wonder what that's like, but also I don't want that. That seems scary. I don't want to lose myself into that world. Yeah, reading between the lines a bit from your book, you don't explicitly say, but

it sounds like you're in desperate need of some worrying to anchor to something. It's obvious from your actions that you felt like you were sucked up into a tornado. Yeah. Because you get married really young. Yes.

You mean a drummer? Is he on the show? How do you meet the drummer? It was the room, a friend that invited me to see his band and I went and he was the drummer. And we just sort of hit it off.

And yeah, we got married. I don't even know how that happened. Like how quickly after meeting him.

“I think it was 21, but if my daughter came to me and said, I'm 21, I'm getting married.”

No. You're not. It was a different time a little bit. People got married younger. I think a little bit.

The whole world was still going, why would this 21 year old on the show be getting married? In retrospect, he was a big guy. He had the presence of my father who I thought was going to die any minute. I was trying to replace that sort of tethering, that sort of thing. You're looking for stability, he embodies physical stability.

Right. Here's the part you don't dig super deep into, but I'm curious. So he moves into your house, you build a recording studio for 'em. You buy 'em Harley's. There's something in there.

Yeah. Yeah, what do we think is in there? I am very giving. I like to make people happy. I like to make money so that I can make other people happy or my family, I like to give

things my dad a truck and bought the branch for them to live on, like I help other family members. I feel like I am given this position to make money for other people's benefit a lot of the time. Yeah, but it's almost impossible, especially when you're young, to proceed that way

and not be resentful of the people that you're doing all this work. Because you're like, I'm doing all this for you and your drunk and don't give it shit. Was there not also some resentment? No. Was it resentment?

It was sadness, even that wasn't enough for you to not go and drink all night with your friends or why would you want to do that when I'm here? I've battled some of that, too. Like if I'm being very generous, I have to think am I doing this so that they can't leave me?

Mm-hmm. That's what I'm sort of... Look at what I've done. You know, I've invested in you or I've given you so much, you can't leave me and then they do or they go do their own thing and then you feel like really hurt.

And in my mind, it never felt like I'm investing in you, I'm doing this so that you

won't leave me, but that was probably the under... Yeah, it was never like at the end of that relationship when it was falling apart and I was never like, look, while I've given you and you still, I never thought that way. But I think now as a woman who really understands how hard it is to make a living, to support

“your family and how hard you have to work, I do have more of a connection with, I work”

really hard. And I feel like if you want to be in my family, it has to be a team effort. We have to all work together to make this work in whatever capacity we're able to.

Yeah. Well, that the risk of really opening up a wound, because you have the cute appeal. That also wears off for all people, because you wanted more of a substantive attraction to you. Do you think also, there was some reality of like, yeah, he thought you were the cutest thing

in the world. And six months later, that wasn't as exciting. And there's no second gear for this relationship. Yes, my life maintained its ridiculous schedule and having no real life of my own outside of work, because I had to get up so early every day and be there so long.

“I think I wasn't as fun as he thought I would be.”

As advertised. Right. Or as one would assume, if you're watching this show, you have an idea about all of you guys. But you're like, I'm a person, yeah, I'm not that girl. And by nature, I'm not a person that's walking around with rainbows flowing out of my

house. I was born blue. And I don't know if a lot of people know that means, but just not rain Bowie built more thoughtful, introverted. Probably a bit melancholy.

Yeah. Tiny bit blue.

You know, my dad would always say, are you feeling blue?

And I would say, yeah, I don't know why I was a kid, and then he would take me for ice cream. So then I figured out, oh, that's a reward for feeling blue. I must have reinforced it. But yeah, I'm not like a Japanese-skippity person all the time.

If you're searching for stability, even this shitty version of stability is going to be more stable than when you pull the plug and you're back to the drawing board. I can imagine you measuring those two things, and feeling like, well, it's better than zero stability, which will be the outcome.

“I think I was just blindly brave at that point.”

Like, I didn't know what that would feel like, so I just was able to do it. So we separated. And then, of course, I met somebody during that separation. And then, that made it a lot easier. It always makes it easier when there's someone else.

Yes, yes, yes. So then, I finalized the divorce and started a relationship with my second husband. OK, let's talk about Luke for a second, because he's in the book.

You describe basically him shining as light on you, and how powerful that was.

Yeah, that light. I thought I was the only one that felt it. I really did. I was such a sucker. No, that's part of that.

That's part of that personality. Right. It came to soon realize that he shining that same light on everyone. And that was just the nature of Luke. Why people gravitated towards him and loved him.

And they felt so seen and appreciated by him. But you admit in the book, you were pretty in love with him. Yeah, he was definitely my first real love. What do you think kept it from escalating? Probably he kept it from escalating.

Because he had a real strong moral compass at the same time. He loved me, but he didn't want to ruin me.

“And I think that he knew if we got involved, it would ruin me.”

He knew he wasn't going to be able to commit to you. I don't think under those circumstances now. Yeah, when I was reading, and I got to be honest, I felt a little maybe defensive of him. He's just this person moving through life.

And the way he is, people are falling in love with. It's not disingenuous of him that he interacted with you, just the way he interacts. Yeah, but it was a little more than that. Yeah, I'm sure in order to maintain that chemistry for the show,

for the cameras, and he liked to have chemistry with whoever he worked with. So he would put a lot of effort into it. As naive as I was, I thought that that was him loving me. I felt like he really valued me. And I didn't see him doing that with everyone else until later.

Yeah, this sounds terribly painful. You had to watch them over the next few years. Different co-stars come in and out and him create that with everyone. Right, whether I was mistaken and just stupid, I felt that we had something really special.

And I have every belief that we did have something special, because we referenced all our lives after that. I think anybody that was around us probably could tell. That's a blessing he didn't go all the way. Because that allowed you to stay friends, I'd imagine, yeah.

Yeah, I was very conflicted with my friendship after that point. Because I guess I was heartbroken, honestly. Yeah, and you felt betrayed, I assume, to some degree. I guess, yeah, it really instilled in me even more of a feeling of you can't trust people.

And you can't trust yourself. You can't trust yourself because like what you've fallen for. I don't know, I mean, if he had, we would have probably definitely dated. We never really dated.

We were always at work together, but it was always a very strong flirtation.

And you had to kiss and see. We were constantly making. Oh, my God, what's wrong with that? It was so layered. Yeah, I wasn't experienced at that point with making out with guys on camera

and knowing that that didn't translate into real life at all.

But it felt real and now very clear because of those learnings of getting it blurry.

It's very easy for me to have chemistry in one second with somebody.

And then just the next second, be normal. Dead to them. Yeah, what was your name? It's easy for me to define now.

“Foundries, I guess, that's what they were called.”

Yeah, you learned those. Now, people left the show. And I'm curious what that did to the little microcosm of the world. Like Shannon left after the four seasons. She did get to read a little bit about things that were going on, which is she was perpetually

late. Didn't care when she was late. They kind of wanted to get rid of her. She wanted to leave. But then she had second thoughts.

She cut her hair in the middle of an episode. Oh, wow. That was the final straw. I think there was some decisions just to be like, fuck you, I can do what I want. And I was watching from the sidelines going, wow, she really can do whatever she wants.

Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. Cooler, were you trying to figure out like, what's her problem with all this? As a fellow Aries, there's that part of me, the with horns that understands it, because we don't like to be told what to do or what we can and can't do.

And sometimes in the face of being told what we can't do, we're like, oh, really watch me. And being both incredibly independent women from such a very young age, she also had a dad with heart problems and she supported her family and took care of her family. They were her first priority at all times. And there was a lot going on for her that no one knew about.

There were all the struggles of trying to figure out how to have healthy relationships and being her position, not easy, very difficult to navigate that confusion. I think caused some defiance or anger, naturally, trying to control some things, anything you can. So I think, yeah, when she was late, it was annoying for everyone.

We were all there on time, ready, when we were supposed to be ready and the crew was waiting, that was hard to work with. And I didn't know then a lot of what she was going through until we became women and disgusted more openly. I heard her saying, like, people didn't really understand what I was going through at the

time.

And I never really considered that at that young age.

But I did have this sort of respect for her, like an unknown, non-understood respect for her. Also, I mean, you guys are young and you're the stars. I can imagine being young and a star, and like, you're not telling me, I'm the reason this show works, where the reason this show works, not you telling me what to do.

Like, I could see that getting very out of hand, yeah, with these stars of the biggest show ever. And I'd sound like they were like, oh, these are young because we can kind of have them here non-stop.

“That's what's crazy that you're on ensemble and you worked as much as you did.”

That's generally the gift of it on ensemble. The other thing, well, either blue my mind is I didn't realize you guys did 32 episodes a year. I don't think any. Like, now we marvel at shows that did 24, because it's 32, how many months a year

were you shooting the show? We had two and a half months off in the summer, and then maybe a monthish off at Christmas. So it was a lot. We were there a lot. Yeah.

I always joke and say it was like, we were kept in jail.

Because it was this isolated sound studio in Van Eyes, California, which was just industry. It's not nice. It was a commercial park. Yeah. It was a car crushing on one side and a porn studio on the other side of our stages.

People didn't go there. Yeah. That's what they wanted. And we were inside this building that they had transformed into a sound studio, even though you could hear every airplane going in Van Eyes airport all day long.

Yeah. Never held from planes more in my life. I felt so sequestered, so confined. You meet your second husband. And then you guys have your first daughter pretty quick, 97.

Yep. She was born in 97. That was a surprise.

“I think since you get married in 01, we were not ready.”

We, I say we, we were not ready to get married yet. I think the analogy was our boat wasn't strong enough to survive the ocean. So I waited for the boat to get stronger. But I had a baby. I was in brand new mom.

I was so focused on keeping the baby alive. Yeah. You're 25? 24. I think.

Everyone else is like out at the Viper room throwing up in a park a lot, Deckshup or an air weekly or gawking at them. But you're raising a baby, there's challenges, but I would also imagine this is finally the tether you're probably looking for in life, right, where you have an identity that's outside of this other quite confusing identity.

Yeah. And I felt like this was my purpose. I didn't know my purpose within that world of acting, the show, all of that fame. But I knew my purpose immediately when I had a baby. And what do you think that inoculated you against the other cast members were dealing with

that you were relieved of? Just to tabloids, I was exhausted in a different way, but not from partyings, which is a very

I think mostly I was not focused on myself any longer.

I always think that having kids save my life, having Luca, my first daughter, saved my life

because I could have seen me going into this self-important swirl of, you know, a spiral, where all you think about is yourself and your business and you're worse and all that stuff. And I didn't think about that anymore. I do think that's the huge gift if you're in this business that kids give you. Is they don't give a shit about whether they're not your movie open.

I don't know. They're going to be like that. I can see. Yeah, you got to get up and do whatever you got to go to travel town and see the trains, whether the movie opened or not, which is good for you.

As an actor, people assume that we're very self-absorbed and we are very self-absorbed to a certain degree. Well, it requires you to concentrate on getting it and maintaining it. It becomes your entire, it's all you see. I always said, I'm the CEO of me.

I have to run my business. This is my business, I guess.

“Okay, therefore you have to think about you.”

You have to think about you a lot. I get so fucking bored with myself and irritated that I'm having to like, think about me. I'm doing it a lot more now in my life than I ever have because my kids are out of the house. So I'm able to focus on things that I need to focus on a little bit more or want to focus

on. But it was an interesting time, I remember doing one scene. I felt very different and Gabrielle had had a baby, I think, a year or two before me on the show. But then she ended up leaving and she was older than all of us.

She was like 36 or something. I don't think she was 36.

Everyone always said they're like, she was so old.

I don't think she was 20. I'm like, I'm almost certain she was 36 at some point on that. Maybe I said 20. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to say for the right, it's still a babe. Yeah, I mean, I think she was 26. But I do remember going, like when you find that out, it's very exciting gossip. Right. Because you don't think it when you're watching it, but we knew it on set.

She had a different priorities, but then I had a baby and I was like, I'm still in the group. I got to go milk my boobs in the trailer. I did this shoot around that. You were clearly pregnant.

Yeah.

“It's pregnant in season 9, I don't remember.”

It would've been 7, 90 to 0. I just watched it. And I can't remember. This is 7. And we hit it.

We called it Bob. I can remember when Jason was doing some directing at that phase of the show. And he would be like, how are we going to hide Bob in this and they'd just give me like something to carry. Yes, okay.

Dry your clothes. Now when the show ended, did you feel relieved or did you have a moment of, well, I just had security for a decade. At that point, a third of your life, you had had majors, financial security, where you had all panicked after that first year.

You know, when you get that kind of financial security so young, you don't really think about money. Okay. Well, that's great to hear. I mean, you don't really think about it coming and going.

You just have it and then you spend it and then you get it and then you spend it. It seems so normal, but then when you're like, wait, you're watching it just go down. Yeah, the money's not coming in anymore, but I'm still spending it. It was really scary.

“I didn't think I would have such an adjustment, but we all went through it.”

I didn't know when to go to the bathroom. You would let around by a leash, basically, when you're an actor, they like say, go to the bathroom and then come out, we'll go to the thing and then here's your lunch and in 10 minutes I'll come back to get you. Yeah.

Here's what you wear. Here's what you say. Here's your makeup look. They talk about the depression that follows most professional athletes and people think

wrongly it's about the fame and money, but it's always about the loss of their community.

They run a team and then they lost their routine. Everything's scheduled for an athlete. And all of a sudden, they're in the world with no schedule and no community. It's like Willie Milley. You're like, what do I do?

Overwhelming. Should I eat now? Am I hugging? Yeah. I don't even know.

When are they putting that on lunch? Yeah. Why is there no craft service in my kitchen? So when you got what I like about you, that was to show you then did for you, for you.

Yeah, for seasons. I was very lucky. I was so happy to get that show because there's a huge stigma that followed all of us as actors. People weren't really willing to see us do other things.

I really wanted to do a comedy. I had no idea how to do a comedy because I was always doing so much drama on my not-to-one. But I got called in by Will Calhoun, who was one of the head executives of friends. And he was doing a new show with Amanda Bines.

And another guy was also executive producing it. I've selectively forgotten his name at the moment. He was part of that big scandal. Oh, okay. Dan Schneider.

Oh. Yes. And he was the other producer. He was kind of Amanda side of it because it was starring myself and Amanda Bines. She was coming from Disney on a show.

She had worked with him a lot on the Amanda show and all the things he had hooked his swag into her. Were you getting bad vibes? Yeah. I was to the point where I said to Will, like I would rather just communicate solely

with you. I trust you.

partner, so I'd rather just be with you and he was like no problem.

“And did you see Amanda getting like kind of destroyed by him?”

Not specifically him. There were a lot of problems in the stico system of her. How old was she and how old were you at that time? When we did the pilot, I just turned 30 and she had just turned 16. We had the same birthday.

Oh, the sweet. Did you feel like you were perfectly equipped to help her navigate this since you did it so young? No, no, no, and also I didn't know how to be around a teenage girl. She taught me so much.

I was kind of afraid of teenagers because everyone's like, oh, you've got a kid and wait til they're a teenager. They're going to be a nightmare. Right. They love to say that.

It's a favorite thing to say. I just so not true. If you have kids like, oh, yeah, I have two girls. Oh, wait til they're teenagers. I don't know.

Go fuck yourself. Right. You don't know.

I've just told that to someone recently.

It's nice for teenage girls and I said, don't accept that narrative. Yeah. Except this is how I want it to be with my kids. What's really going on that I have compassion for because when I've got little bounce of it is like, they're dealing with heartbreak.

You have this little person who thinks you're the greatest and then they must go through a phase where they don't think you're that cool. And you're like, wait. But what happened? We're best friends.

I understand. They're dealing with heartbreak. It is sad. It's just not the thing to tell new parents come to me. So you're setting them up for failure.

“Yeah, because also, what are you going to do about?”

There's no solution in that. What's the point? Just to think you're fucked. Yeah. Exactly.

You're right. It becomes a little bit of a self-fulfillment. Because when there's a blip of it, you're like, well, here we go. Exactly. They're like, this is what they need.

I think I even had that. And I was like, I know that past. That was like a monkey. And now everything's donkey dory. You were lucky.

I was very lucky.

Well, I'm like, I never went through that with my mom.

I was always delightful. I was. I wasn't either. I was bad. Kind of bad.

I was bad. I could lie. Like nobody's. Yeah. Well, you're acting.

Yeah. Exactly. OK. So you guys proceed to have three daughters from 97 to unknown your last baby was born.

She was born in 2006. OK. So nine years of getting pregnant every few years, and then having to baby. The relationships not in a great state, was it something that had precipitously fallen or was it doomed, and you were getting through it for a long period of it, or when did

it start to feel untenable? Early. My view of it was that he wasn't ready to become a father at 21, obviously. Not a ton of dudes are. Nope.

And he didn't know who he was yet. I didn't know who I was yet. He's trying to create a career. He's an actor. He's wants to be an actor.

And he's doing the work. It's hard to even imagine. But I feel now, as if, and this is no shade, no blame, nothing. I'm kind of a realist. Like, I don't think he was ever truly in love with me.

The kind of love that it takes to be married, to sustain a long-term relationship. Yeah. They have to roll up your sleeves and do all the terrible work that's required. Yeah. He was focused on other things, his career, and I was focused on the kids.

And my career trying to do both. And now, if I could go back, the writing was kind of on the wall for some reason.

“And my now has been Dave doesn't understand, well, why do you keep having kids with them?”

Because you can't be having sex. Well, yeah. That's for that. Yeah. That's what's meant for that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like nothing was that bad. Like nothing was so bad that you had to be like, we really can't keep going.

Is that right? It wasn't. We functioned. And we loved being a family. We loved our daughter so much.

When we would do a lot of fun things, and it just felt normal, but I didn't try to make it this way. It just showed up as that white pick-up fence story, and all of a sudden, you're like, wow, okay, this is what I'm doing. And then it didn't have what it needed to sustain.

That's hard to leave. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. Also, there's an illusion of the equation of A equals B and B equals C A equals C, like you both love these girls so much. And you can talk about that love.

And it's a creation of you, too. And that can feel maybe like that's compensating for the love. It's actually not going in that direction. Right. It's confusing that imagine.

Love is creative this thing that we love so much. Right. So we must love each other. Yeah. But we don't.

I guess we didn't. Like, it's interesting because you focused, I think, in the book that, yeah, he wasn't in love with you. But are you sure you were in love with him?

In the beginning, we were mad about each other for, I think, was six months, then we got pregnant. And then it just got real complicated.

“Yeah, it's pretty easy to be super into someone for six months.”

Most beginnings of relationships. Yeah, they're pretty good. Yeah, they're pretty good. Maybe even longer than six months. But things got real real fast.

I've talked about before, like, I feel like my life has just swept me, you know, it's been a constant, like flow, flow, things happening, coming to me, dealing with it, surviving it.

Then the next thing comes, I never had any point where I was like, this is what I want.

This is what I'm going to work hard on getting. It's just happened. And I was constantly just trying to tread water to figure it out. It sounds like from 1990 to 2012, you were reacting to whatever new scenario arose. So here's the show.

I'm going to react and try to figure out how to respond. I'm pregnant. I'm a new mom. There's two more of this marriages and what I had hoped. You think at some point, the way to salvage all this is all of us to move up to Sanny

and us to the ranch. And then let's do a reality show for CMT was called a little bit country. Right. Well, I wanted to move up to the ranch A to be closer to my family, my mom and dad. When my second daughter was five, my dad died.

I'm not a good griever. I just go hard, go deep, go full in and I have to get through it slowly. I have to go really feel the feelings.

“I remember on his death bed, we were going through separation.”

And my dad was losing oxygen to his brain. So he was saying things that work his nature. One of the last things he said to me was, I don't think this is a good idea. You're old and they got two kids who's going to want you now. That just stuck with me so profound.

What I love Lee. Good message. Yeah. But that wasn't, yeah. Yeah.

I don't mean to anyone. He was afraid for you because he loved you and it came out terribly. Yeah. Like I guess maybe he thought I shouldn't get a divorce. I'm presuming he just wanted to make sure you were okay.

And then in his mind, you were better off in a shitty marriage than you would be trying to find someone else. Well, in that generation, 10 to think that way. I know you have a lot of anxiety. When do you start?

I'm presuming you're on some bends. Oh, you were on Xanix or something. When does that trajectory start? That started when we separated. I just did know how to cope with all the feelings and all the responsibility that I suddenly

felt.

I've always supported myself even in my marriage and we split everything.

It was never like a how am I going to survive kind of thing. It just was I was broken. I didn't know how to be alone and deal with it all. And yeah, we moved to the ranch because the paparazzi were just nuts. We lived until Luke Lake and they just were really bad.

When you were with your kids. Yeah. And so I just wanted to get them out of there and have like a normal life with them. So they went to like the local school and we walked to school and it was just Mayberry USA.

It was perfect. And then the show presented itself as something that he and I would produce together about us moving to the ranch and kind of having both worlds. Fish out of water. You guys are leaving Hollywood to live in the country.

But really, I was back to my roots. I wasn't not watered all. I was happy. But when the show was bought and originally received you guys were going to go there as a couple.

Yeah. Yeah. And then by the time production starts, everything had changed. You're not a couple. No.

I'm drinking wine at night and taking medication. I would be embarrassed my marriage felt was a very embarrassed. Yes. And then I felt like such an asshole for being embarrassed. Like that's ego.

Yeah. But we're not there. Yeah. You're not the healthy Jenny. So at the time, if my marriage is falling apart and my first step is going to be in a reality

show where I acknowledge that. No way. I don't even know that's going to be out of body. Who that was, I have no idea that era of my life.

“I just remember being prodded out of bed.”

I would take the girls to school. I would go back to bed and then the crew would show up and I would be like, I can't get up. I don't know. And they would talk me up and get me out and I would end up doing it just because

that's what you do. Well, you just like completely disassociated throughout the whole process. I would have just gone to a place in my mind and watched this unfold. Like holy shit. What's happened?

It was very surreal. It was very out of body. But then the moments of levity, which helped me feel better about the girl's experience because they were getting distracted by the crew and the fun people. And then they would be doing fun things that they created for the show.

And I was like, this feels good. Everybody's laughing and feels normal for this moment. And then they would leave. And then the reality would be like, oh, this is what's normal. And he came to visit at one point and said, let's go talk in the RV while the show's

being shot. I don't know if the show was being shot at that time. I don't think the crew was there. I think it was over. Okay.

You know, yeah, all this is my story. This is my recollection of it. I have literally no idea what his story is. I'm curious.

We never really sat down and gone through the beat by beat of it all.

But my room member and says that we went into the RV and the kids were outside playing on the farm because it was safe and they were running free like kids should be. And that's where he told me that he wanted us to get a divorce. And then he said a very faithful sentence, though. He said, yes, he said, Jen, someday you'll thank me for this.

And that's where he hit me. That is me.

“So then we go to for me what would be a bottom, which is you decide you should try marriage”

counseling in Phoenix. I had heard about this expert and she happened to be in Phoenix. So he was on a shoot and I said, let's fly there and meet there. So we both flew from different places.

I have to say, having never met him, that part feels very stand up that he was willing

to come do that. I feel like he needed backup or he wanted someone to really make me understand. Uh-huh. Because I'm a fighter. I will try and I was in denial and I was unwilling.

I didn't want it. Maybe that was just for the girls, but I didn't want that to happen. Yeah. Again, you're going to be completely untethered to happen. Yeah.

So we went there and that's where everything sort of hit the fan even more than the RV. Yeah, you get to the therapy session and he's already there. He's already there, which I found was where he was already inside the office with the therapist. I felt like, oh, she knows stuff already that she should have found out from both of

us in that situation. Like the jury's been complicated. Yeah. Exactly.

“We sat down and honestly, two minutes into it, she said, Jenny, why would you love”

someone when they don't love you? Why would you love someone who doesn't love you? Like it's echoing.

Like I'll never forget it.

The few things in my life, I've 30s, we'll do three of them now. Yeah. That just gutted me and I was like, yeah, no shit. Give up. Like it's time.

It broke through. Mm-hmm. And then you got up and split. You started walking down the street. There was a day where I was going.

It was hot as hell. This part of Sarri is mildly comedic. They roll up in a Toyota Corolla. Yeah. Looking pretty.

Like a sandcolors one. You know, the girl. This is Toyota Corolla. They come looking for you. He's in the passenger seat.

This is very movie-ass. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was walking, angry, crying, all the things, just like out of my mind.

And they'd are just like kind of keeping up with me in the car. And saying, "Get in the car, let us take you to a hotel, Jen, come on, get in the car, like a friend." And I was like, why would I get in your car? No.

But somehow they got me in the car. And then they took me to a hotel, took us to a hotel. He checked in separately. And I was like, well, I guess I'll check in. And that was the parting moment.

And then that night, you drink a lot. Well, as much as you can drink of the mini bottles. But like, you know, it's chug, chug. Just stop this pain. And then mix with benzos.

It's with medications that I've been given for flying purposes. We're divorce purposes. Yeah, like, people really like to give people medication. So you wake up in the hospital. After that night, yeah, I blacked out.

I passed out on the floor. And I had my best friend on the phone with me. I think while that was happening. So she knew I was in danger. Thank God.

She called your assistant in L.A. the assistant, Fluida, Arizona. And she got you to the hospital. And when you woke up, you're looking at your assistant. I'm looking at my assistant and whiteness and doctors.

And everything's very fuzzy. It all came back to me. And all I wanted to do was kill the pain some more. I'll get personal with you. This was the part of the book.

'Cause you write, it still shames me to write this. And it feels like it still shames you a little bit to talk about it.

“I think this shame really came from letting the girls down”

and from being a bad mom by letting myself go to that place. I could have died in that hotel room. But again, this is the beginning of a journey that you were destined to take, whether you did it in 2012 or 2012 or 2012, or you died miserable.

But this is like the time you jump off the fucking dining board. Like this is when life starts and it goes our way. So is what she has, you might feel like your transformation doesn't exist without waking up in that hospital.

Right. You go to LA and you go on to treatment. And I'm at it, you leave in six days. (laughs) I wasn't good with the group environment.

And you go on a yoga retreat with a woman to Bali. And you don't stay with all the other people you stay with her. And so I think if you're one of those group members, you might think like, oh, she thinks she's hot shit 'cause she was on TV.

Do you not nervous? I honestly didn't care. That wasn't my motive, wasn't reason I was isolating. And I think most of them, if not all of them, were really understanding and respectful of that.

And it kind. - What do you think prevented you from participating? - I just wasn't ready to open up to strangers and just like in group therapy at the rehab.

and carrying it all in silence and hiding it

from the world, I wasn't ready. - Yeah. - We're also worried people were gonna find out that I was very worried people were gonna find out that I was in rehab.

- Yeah. - 'Cause I didn't want my kids to have to deal with that publicly.

“- I think that prevents a lot of people from going,”

which is very unfair. - Yeah, and it's funny too, because so yeah, I know what you're talking about. You have all these secrets and you're carrying all this shame. And that's precisely why group things work

is that you go into this group. You put out on a platter of these things that you think make you unlovable and on worthy. And they go, oh yeah, I did all this too. It's all right.

That's actually the magic is this thing that you're holding that you're certain will make you unlovable once exposed in the light. It turns out that's not the case. 'Cause you're looking at these other people

who've done the same thing and you're like, oh no, you're so lovable. You're so likable. - Right. - You have so much value.

I know that's true for you. It might be true for me. - I've probably missed out on a lot of that growth and it took me a longer because of that to get right near to get.

- Yeah. So you start taking some steps that you get in a apartment, you leave Sanyna's. You do dedicate a month that had been etched out for treatment and you start doing an outpatient program.

You meet this woman, you go to Bali on the yoga thing. - The outpatient program felt like it was full time though. - Yeah, you say it was like nine hours a day or something. - In sitting in a room by yourself and people come in every different kind of therapist.

- I was curious, yeah, 'cause you just do therapy session therapy session. Did you leave with diagnoses?

“Like did they start telling you you're this or that?”

- I had already had a diagnosis of depression

from a very young age that I was always using medication

to balance and then going off of it because I didn't think I needed it. Being embarrassed 'cause I had to take it and then not taking it when I was pregnant and just stealing all the ups and downs of that.

And so I was already there. They didn't really give me any kind of diagnosis. They were just really helping me hear the words that I needed to be hearing constantly and hearing the messages of value and words

and listening to your instinct and just trying to get me back in my own body. - Yeah, yeah. - So in order of the things that were very effective, I'm fascinated by this in funny enough,

you talk about joining this Buddhist group and going every Monday night. And I wrote down the name of it. - Kadampa. - Kadampa.

- This is right down the street. - So I wrote down the name of it 'cause I'm like, "Oh, I want to start taking classes there on Mondays." And then I'm taking a family walk with my kids. - Yeah, you can walk there.

- Two days ago, we were like, "Well, I look at a sign and I go, "Oh my God, this is impossible." You guys are just wrote down the name of this for many days. - Literally.

- You want me to go? - And then my 11-year-old was like, "I want to go with you." - It's so fun, you know, they do for kids to do. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, I've just drove by it on the way here

“and thought, "Oh, I miss going there when you need to get back."”

- Yeah, what things were you picking up that were helping you tether yourself to yourself and what were the building blocks that helped you most come out of this? - Getting rigged by the leader of the class.

- He was so relatable. Like he translated the teachings of Buddha into like present day, usable stuff that we're all dealing with, road rage and heartbreak and hesitation for reaching for your goals,

all the things. So I was hearing it in just a different language. It just came in differently. And it just resonated so much. And I had seen a friend of mine that had gone

through the stages of the Buddhist teachings. - You mentioned one on a set, right? It was another actor. - Yeah, another actor. I was like, "Wow, you are so cool

"and level headed and just like a piece all the time. "I want what you have, what's wrong with you?" Like, "Where'd you get that?" He's the one that told me about it. But it was just sitting there listening to the teachings.

And I took copious notes because I tend to have to write things down in order to show to remember them. And I just have those books with me. I go back to them all the time.

Also, the just human connection that you said, I was perhaps missing by not going to the group therapy and realizing that all these people were there for the same reason. And one of the main teachings of Buddhism

is that we all want to be free from suffering. And that was just revolutionary for me. Started me thinking outside of my own pain and realizing that we're all carrying our own pain. And it's through connecting

and recognizing that and each other that the healing really happens. - Yeah, talk about the scarcity mindset a little bit. I thought this was a great section.

- You guys always had it just growing up very modestly

and having been independent my whole life and having to pal my bills and other bills. You worry about things, like what if it's not there? Like I would keep close that I didn't need because I thought maybe someday I'll need that

and maybe I won't have enough money to buy it. In your mind, when you are so self-sufficient, it's scary. - I love that you say in that mindset to your scanning for short term wins 'cause you have so much anxiety

and they're not long term wins. I can relate to this so much, like as an actor, it's like, oh, that movie failed. Shit, I don't think I'm gonna hire it again. I guess I'm gonna consider these other things

that I never wanted to do, but they're on the table so I should take them because those will go away too.

And I had to make money. I had to support myself and my girls and I was accustomed to a certain kind of lifestyle. Sure, yes, we could have moved into an apartment but I really wanted probably for myself too

'cause I'm really at home at my home. Like that's my place. I wanted to have that sort of security for my girls

and always be able to provide it.

But the scarcity just keeps you living in fear of not having and I think especially with money 'cause I spent all those years not worrying about money. It'll come, it'll happen. It's magically appears.

I don't know who does what with it, but it's all good. - Yeah. - Then all of a sudden I was forced to really think about how am I gonna do this. I don't have that backup, even if we were sharing things

equally the feeling of having that kind of backup support was gone and my dad had died and I felt a lot more responsibility and I just never worried about money and then all of a sudden I started worrying about money. I started worrying about when am I gonna get enough to pay

and my business manager was really scaring the shit out of me

“all the time, said you need to sell your house”

and actually you need to sell the ranch too. So I just built a home for my daughters and you said you need to sell it now while the real estate is at its height because it's gonna change.

I was like, okay, and I didn't have a sounding board on the other side of that and then he said, you need to sell your ranch and I did that too and I regret both of those decisions because the minute you start worrying

and holding on and attaching to the outcome of the money coming and going, that is when for me it stopped coming. I like clenched my fists around and strangled it. - Yeah, yeah.

- With worry and that was a real life lesson. - You gotta kinda take a little bit of faith. And even like going back to my relationship with the girl's dad, young insecure me was worried that he would leave me or he would cheat on me

as an actor, he's going to make out with beautiful women and that was very difficult and I got really concerned about it and I made it happen. - Yeah. - And I remember him too saying at some point,

you're gonna make this happen.

“I didn't understand that and I also kinda thought”

that's a little bit manipulative because you're saying I'm gonna make you do some right. - There is some element of that. - Yeah, but I get it from the other perspective too.

- Yeah, so if I'm always in trouble

from cheating or I'm always under scrutiny, then I might as well be having fun 'cause I'm dealing with this and I'm not having that. I'm paying the price as it were. - Right, there was a lot of that in our relationship

because I was just insecure and unstable and not connected with myself as to that. Yeah, I felt like it took a long time for me. Like I didn't get there until like 50, late 40s where I really started to understand myself more

and love myself to the point where I could comfort myself and be my own anchor. - Why admire how much you tried and fought, like you did landmark? - Did you ever do landmark?

- No, but our friend did the whole thing. - He loves it. He still talks about it all the time. It's like a collage. - Yeah, that's a way to fix that.

- He doesn't participate anymore, but I think he was great at extracting of course there's really great principles and that would be so successful. - I've still lived by one of them today.

You have a choice in the world every day. You are a person that either loves chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice cream, which is it. And then you're like vanilla. So to really get in touch with your internal answering

a question without doubt.

So I've always go back to that one too.

- Yeah, my understanding of it that I like a lot is it's a lot about personal responsibility. Like the world's unhappening to you. - No, you're not a victim. - Yeah, you're not a victim, it's not happening to you.

“It's happening for you and how do you want to navigate it?”

- And while you're at it, go clean up all the shit that you've already destroyed. - Yeah. - Which was really beneficial. I think that helps a lot of people so much

because so much happens when we know we've messed up something or made a mistake or didn't do something well regarding the other person's perspective for feelings. So it really does pinpoint those moments for you and then you go back and meet with that person

hopefully or write them a letter or whatever. - Yeah, there's the nine step in the program. Which is like cleanup your records again. So you don't have to walk around with shame because you can't afford to walk around with shame.

- It's like a bucket if you have a bucket full of water and the water being all those moments where you messed up and you are beating yourself up over it and it's full and you just have to put your foot right in it and let the water overflow.

Because you will never get past it if you don't. - Let's talk about David 'cause you also found a way to find love again as you titled the chapter in the book. How did this one differ from previous ones?

- It was weird. I was trying dating. I'd never done that. I didn't know what kind of guy liked. I tried all different sizes and shapes and locations.

Usually they were out of town, which was nice 'cause I could come home and be a mommy and then when I did not my kids I would go try to date someone. - And if you have a hard time establishing boundaries up, do you have graphical boundary hopes?

- Yeah, definitely. - I had really come through a lot of intense therapy

and I was feeling this freedom

and this positive feeling of like I can handle everything now and right when that happened, I met Dave. I built my house and I was doing a photo shoot for the unveiling of the house 'cause it was on HTTV and I was thinking like this is the best.

I'm here with my dogs and my house and the way I wanted and that I had a blind date with somebody. My friends at school had set me up. It was like a blind double date. That's one in that day.

- Wow, I don't know. - And I remember walking in 'cause I didn't know who he was. So I did look him up on the internet. I was busy all day, so I was like to help me look this guy up and a chipping del's dancer came up

with the same name. - Oh, so I texted my friend.

“I was like, he's not a chipping del's dancer, right?”

He's like, no, I didn't have a big footprint at all on the line, so I just kind of went into a blind lane. I walked in, he was this tall handsome actor looking guy and I was like, oh, fuck, no thank you. Bye-bye.

So so completely detach the whole dinner

just thinking, this is such a waste of my time but trying to get through it. And then he made me laugh a few times and women are a sucker for laughter. - Thank God, right? - Thank you so much.

- Because I didn't have laughter in my life and I was like, oh, this feels really good and I thought, I want this for my girls. - We didn't have joy in your life. - I didn't have joy in your life.

- Yeah, no way. - No, it was just plugging along and he brought that to our household. I just fell in love with it and him. - That's lovely.

- We've been married for 10 years. - Wow. - I call it nine because we did spend a year of separation when the sparkles faded again in the relationship after like that first year when it's not what you thought

it would be.

“- Yeah, well, when the work is now required.”

- Yes. - And neither of you have experience or the confidence, can I challenge this without being unlovable.

- And he had never been in a relationship

like that. He all said he had three step children. - Yeah, yeah. - So a lot. - Four dogs.

So he stepped into a big world and we took a year off. We were getting divorced actually. We had the paperwork signed on my end. He hadn't signed it yet

and it was in a yellow envelope in the back of his truck. This truck that he bought after we broke up has like a sign of defy like this giant thunder. And he lived on the itty-bitty streets in Silver Lake and it was all sprayed up and dented.

He loved that truck. But he had the paperwork in the back of his car. I noticed it there months after we had gone back together. And I was like, this has been in your car this whole time. He said, yeah, I'm gonna keep it around

'cause it reminds him like I have free will. Like I cannot be in this relationship if I don't want to. I choose to be in it. - Right.

“I think it helped him kind of come to terms with that.”

But he had a lot of going to do. I had to go back to the drawing board because it was just like ripping a bandaid off at a real fresh wound. - Yeah, were you like, oh my God again.

- More attacking my own self internally for what is wrong with you? And then the narrative in my mind had become and was really concrete. Was you are not able to have a healthy relationship?

- There's just something about you that you can't do it. - You're permanently flawed. - Okay, I guess that's me and I'll just live that way. - Yeah, I'm defective.

- Yeah, some people just can't do certain things and maybe that's mine. How'd you get out of that therapy? - Yeah. - It was after that separation was slash divorce

that I went to Bali and started doing a lot more work right back into it. Like I cannot let this derail me. - Yeah, you can't wake up in the hospital again. - No.

And so I just started working right away and learned even more about myself during that time and really came to peace with what is and stopped trying to fight everything. And that combined with the Buddha classes

that I was going to really just brought me peace in whatever situation I ended up in. Like you will all work out, you will be fine. Also that opportunity to really connect with sounds so woo woo but like the little girl inside of the little person

that is so afraid and so like something's wrong with me and nobody can really love me. Nobody knows me, this person. I started to become her best friend again. Like I started to mother her like I did my own daughters

and once I started to do that I just felt at peace and capable of taking care of her, me, us. - Well, and in Buddhism, right? The suffering's coming from you trying to force a different reality than the one you're in.

The reality's not actually that painful. It's the desire to have a different reality around you that is so uncomfortable. - If afraid of the unknown, yeah, that's the attachment, that's one of the core beliefs is not having attachment.

And if you are full on Buddhist, you don't have attachment to any things. But in this modern world, they taught it in a way that there are certain things that it's okay to have and love and be so grateful that you have them.

But then there are certain things that you're attaching to that are not benefiting you and sort of really deciphering what those are and learning how to unattach. - Yeah.

Well, I choose me as the book and I think it's a very brave book

right now, you felt like how is this happening?

And it must not be for me. When I interviewed my mom, I was like, it's so inconsistent with who you are to have been with a guy that was beating you up. How were you this gangster of a woman with a guy

that was beating you up repeatedly? And she said, the thought of failing again was more painful. I couldn't accept failing again at this.

“And I think a lot of people relate to that.”

- Whatever reason, the shame or the inevitable pain that you know you're gonna go through. - Yeah. So for you to publicly put out your whole roadmap, I think is awesome and admirable.

And I think it's great. - Thank you. - Yeah. - But learning how to connect with other people, especially as an older woman,

learning how to connect with other women, has just brought me such a desire to keep doing that in hopes that someone sees themselves somewhere in my journey. - Yes, if someone comes up to you

and they offer adoration to you

because they wanted to be you on 902 and 0. Versus, when that comes up to you, I was like, I have experienced the same thing as you and I feel so seen and connected. Are two dramatically different things?

They're the thing you wanted, they're substantive. They're not, you're a cute baby. They're your story, has made me feel less alone. - Right. And made me feel seen, less alone

because we just internalize everything as humans. - We think we're so uniquely terrible. - Yeah. - And all of us are. - Oh, that's what we--

- Right? - That's an illusion if you think you know someone who's done it perfectly. Well, Jenny, great meeting you. - Thank you. - Thanks for coming.

- Good luck with the book. Everyone get, I choose me. (upbeat music) - He is at our care.

Expert, buddy, mixed, post, dates, all the time.

- Thank God my echo tea here. - He's got a little pal, the facts. (upbeat music) - I have a story. - Oh great.

- So, this is like right after you left, so this was like two months ago. - Okay. (laughing) - It's going for a week, just to be--

- Yeah, but it feels like it was really long to get. - On a park to a car at my house. Okay, we were gonna walk to Kara. But before we walk to Kara, we were gonna drop something off at your house.

- Okay, yeah. - Stop by your house, we're chit chatting, Kristen, Delta, I dropped off a vintage shirt for Lincoln for her birthday. - Which one was it?

- Willie Nelson. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, great tea. - Yeah, and so then we asked if I didn't want anything from Kara, Delta wanted a salad. - Yeah, the gym's healing.

- Yeah, so then we walked to Kara. Have a great time. - Yeah. - Get the salad, walk back to your house and drop off the salad.

- Everything's looking good. - Yeah, I mean, it's got a lot of money. - Yeah, it's got a lot of money. - Well, so far. And it's like, eight, 35, I would say.

- Okay. - We'll drop off the salad, Delta's asleep. And we, so we then we start walking to my house.

“Now, for the listeners who doesn't know, remember,”

my house is 80 feet. - Yeah, I was gonna say 15, but that's 'cause I don't know measurements. - It's, you know, there's two options. You can go down your driveway or you can go up the hill to row where you're front door.

- Yes, exactly. - Probably equidistance. - Right. - Yeah, but within a couple hundred feet. - Yeah, I mean, it's so close.

- Yeah, yeah. - Okay, so we're walking, oh, we have Mona. This is a big part of it. Mona is on his dog. - Who's he doing on his dog, yeah.

- Yeah, she looks like, almost like a wolf. - Yeah, but like, not a scary one. - Not a wolf, like in the forest, like a wolf-hound. - Right. - Just but like so, like.

- She's so nice. - Nice and kind of dumb looking, like, I love her and I'm not drawn to dogs so much, but I'm like in love with-- - Same, I like, she's a good dog.

- She's a good dog. - Yeah, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna say love. Anyway, okay, so we have Mona, we're walking back to my house and we see my nemesis, coyote.

- Coyote, industry. - The corner, on the corner, just looking, just looking at us, okay. - Yeah, love you, look. - And I was like, okay, I know,

“I think you're supposed to just keep walking”

and be not in pain. - I'm directly in the face, go, what's up? Even just them hearing what's up? - No, I don't wanna talk to them. - He scares them.

- Okay, so I was like, you're supposed to be non-fazed and just be like, you own the streets. - Yeah, well, you're six times a sign. - Oh, no, no, no, they're big. - You may mean it's six, but--

- I mean, they're like, my size. If I got down on all four, - Yeah, yeah. - Is there my size? - I don't know, right. - Anyway, you're a hundred pounds.

They're probably 40, 40 pounds. - But they're all muscle. - They're all hair. - I mostly do. (laughing)

So I don't know what my chance is. Anyway, he was looking at us and I was like, okay, I know I'm supposed to keep going.

but she was scared.

“This wasn't a good combo and she was really worried about Mona”

'cause coyote's eat dogs. - If you know Mona's much bigger than that. - Small dog. - Yeah, but still, we were like getting, we were starting to get a little panicky.

- We should add Mona's extremely beta. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Like Frank would have gone after, he would have lost, but he would have gone after the coyote.

- Yeah, yeah, and it's like, what do you prefer? You know, I don't know. - Well, I can tell you right now what I prefer. - Well, so on I was like, oh no, I don't know what to do and I was like, me either.

And we just were standing still. - And I was like, okay, like deer, they freeze. - Yeah. - So you really look like Frank's name frozen. - Yep, the opposite thing of what you're supposed to do.

And then I was like, okay, and I knew that I was like, we're not supposed to be like standing here like this. We got a, like I don't know, I was like, let's go back. So we turned our back and kind of walked quickly back to your house, okay.

And then we just stood in that little well. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, or the packages come. - Yeah, or the packages.

“We just stood there and I googled what are you doing?”

You come across a coyote.

Basically, first thing I says is,

don't stop, don't turn around, don't run. Everything we had just done. - Yeah. - And I was like, fuck. And then it said, you know, be loud.

- Yeah, sure. - Thro rock. - Absolutely, yeah. - Yeah. - You don't understand throwing.

So it's like, you're a thing and all of a sudden, you could have projectiles. - Okay, interesting. But they didn't, you just yell at it. We have my arm straight all the time.

And that's all Natalie does. - You just, you know. - It was dark. - I know. - But you're a city.

- You don't understand, you know. - Well, Natalie's not what? - Oh, yeah. - They're city coyotes. - We're not about that.

- Okay. So, okay. So it's like, they're rocks that if we didn't see any rocks, but it was like, be loud. It's like, okay, so we'll just,

and we're starting to like, get on hinge. Like, our ideas were bad, you know. I was like, okay, I'll just put on this podcast, and it'll be loud. Okay.

And I'll turn on my flashlight on my phone. So turn on my flashlight, turn on the podcast machine, which is Aaron and Sarah's podcast. Aaron Foster and Sarah Foster's podcast that I've become kind of weirdly obsessed with.

- Uh-huh, what? - He's just like, turned it on. And it's just their voices, like, you know, talking normal. I mean, that loud.

- I don't wanna be critical.

- But when choosing a podcast, maybe like, go rogue. I mean, I'll get time for the Manisfree. - I agree, I agree. - I agree, I agree. - But this is like, two ladies, you know.

And there's no delicious. - Yeah, he's like attractive women. And so I'm just like walking, holding it. And I real, you know, we're three steps in, and we look up three coyotes now.

- They've Gremlin, don't you? - They've got his friends, he said, "Oh, I have the, these girls will not stand a chance." - Easy pick-ins, but I'm gonna need help. Does it just do much for me to eat?

- Yeah. - Yeah. - And they just stood there staring at us. Oh, it was so scary. So then we, we, we turned it, we ran out of here.

- Oh, he, he, he, he, he. - Sprinted. - You should've hung a run.

“- You should've hung baloney on your back”

while you were hunting. - You, we were from cars like we probably smelled like food. - Sure, yummy. - Oh, so we run back to the house. And this time, we run into the house.

And I say, "Mom, we don't, we don't know what to do." And she said, "Oh, I'll go with you guys." And then Lincoln popped up from the couch and I want to go. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, she get her numb chest. - She's very you in that way.

She really wanted to be part of the library. - Yeah, exactly. - And I was like, "No, no, no, no." And you know too, because then you have to walk back by yourself. I don't want that."

And, and so the solution I came up with was to take Kristen's car, drive it to my house.

The problem is I don't like driving other people's cars.

So then we drove Kristen's car to my house. I got in my car, followed Kristen's car back. On a drove Kristen's car back to your house. And I followed to drop off her car. And then on I got my--

- Again, I remind her to the listener. On her seat. - Yeah. And then on I got in my car. We drove back in my house and she got in her car.

- This became the fairy riddle. - Yeah, it's a riddle. - You got some chickens. You got a fox in a bag of grain. - I know.

- Yeah. - So it all worked out. And then I got home and I panicked. But so much stuff. So I bought Wolf P.

- That's a deterrent. - That you're going to put where around your doorstep. - I think around my front, but I don't want it to smell bad.

- As opposed to go like, hey, what's up?

Like, your options? Yeah, if it's a scatter, you're in all over the place. Or go, hey, what's up? - I just don't think they're going to do to me what they do to me.

- You haven't tried it. - I know. If I try it and I get eaten, what are you? How are you going to feel? - You cannot find me a story of an adult.

- Rob? Look at that. - An adult getting eaten. - A female, five feet, brown, at night. - Okay.

- Why a coyote, specifically? - Yeah. - Go ahead and Indian. - Yeah, go ahead and put it in the end. Don't put coyote, okay, didn't you?

Don't you put that? Small, high voice, high voice. - High voice, 'cause maybe it won't care if I say what's up? - There was a 2009 case, but what happened in 2009? - Taylor was hiking in the National Park.

She was attacked by two coyotes and died from injuries and blood loss. - Oh my god, oh my god. - I'm right here when you look this up. - Oh my god. - 2009, I graduated college, so that's sim.

- It does say it is extremely rare. - Yeah, but I don't care. I don't want to be the one.

“- My life is very rare. I've had really rare good news.”

- Oh, we're just taking a nap. This is the only confirmed case of an adult human being killed by coyotes. - The only is this woman. - I'm very special.

- I'm the words taken a nap with-- - She's not taking a nap. - Don't you say that about her. - Snacking your breasts and peace. Anyway, I'm sorry, you got spook like that.

- Oh my god, so then about the wolf pea, I bought some air horns, turned out about too many. I bought like nine, but I don't know how that happened. - Yeah. - And then I bought a little plasticine.

- A little plasticine, but you're bad at Amazon. It's interesting. - I don't know what happened. I got flashlights, a little one that goes on my keychain. I got, and I got this really mean wolf mask thing

that I think you put on your fence, and it has lights, and it looks really scary. - Okay, so did you think of getting one for yourself to wear from a while? - Well, I thought she was saying it, and it's like gonna be in her purse,

and she was gonna, so I was thinking like, why would you have the gumption with a mask on to be aggressive? - Well, I would, if it's like a scary wolf, but it's like scary red eyes on a flash.

“- Okay, but I think what scary is that you are three feet above them?”

- I'm like one foot up there. - Oh! - I'm on a guy. I think we're seeing different things out of our eyes. - I think of how tall they are, average coyote, two feet.

- Okay, then I am three feet taller. But they know they have instincts. - Well, they do know you're scared of them. - Yeah. - You made that clear.

- I am? - I'm crazy. - I am, I don't know if this is one of these situations where you don't really, you're not, you're not looking for any advice or anything.

- Well, 'cause here's what I'll say is,

you cannot be scared of them by just thinking about it. Right? That'll never happen. You're gonna be thinking about it. - You're gonna be thinking about it.

- You can't think your way of being scared of them. - Yes, correct. But I promise you, and I know for sure, if you can one time run at them and scream, they will run, and then you will know permanently.

- Oh, yeah, that's how I can do that. So it's either, we gotta try that. Or we gotta be afraid, they're in the neighborhood. There's a ton of coyotes in the neighborhood. - Oh, I know.

- Have you heard 'em go berserk? - Yes. - Yeah, they go, it sounds like they're having a sound. - They were like dark, dark, dark, dark, dark. - Yeah, devil worshiping, orgy.

- They'll be like, "Oh, wouldn't it be scared of that?" - Seems like 15 or 20 of 'em, and the noises they're making. It makes laughing hyenas sound inviting. - It's really bad.

- And then you wonder, are they eating an old lady? (gasps)

“That's what you wonder when you're in your room.”

- You're not open, it's only happened once, ever. - Yeah, you wonder when you record it. - You wonder, was it 2009 when you hear that? - I don't like them at all. Your hair looks like it's getting longer.

- It is, I'm going it out. - Yeah. Yeah, what do we think? It's in the crazy face. - It looks nice.

- And then you sure? - Yeah. - So you're thinking it's working. - What's that? - Your, your, your, topical?

- Yeah. - Does it look thick? - Oh. - I mean, long doesn't equal thick, right? - Oh, right.

- It would've always grown long,

just how dense would it have been as it was growing long. - I guess, I think it, yeah. - I'll tell you, every guy I know has seen this, this probably hasn't reached your algorithm. - Orgy?

- No, that's, that's hair transplanted. - Right. - There's a UCLA, a keep seeing this goddamn meme on Instagram. And apparently UCLA has a pho-on topical cure

for baldness. - What? - Completely wakes up all dormant follicles. - Really? - Yes.

I was talking to another person with, they had long hair. And I was saying I'm going my hair out it's gonna be hard.

- And we're, were you wearing hats, Boba?

And then I wanted to even thought this about him 'cause his hair looks very robust. So I'm out of this UCLA thing, I go, if you heard about it and he goes to UCLA thing, I go, yeah, I go, yeah, how do I get in the trial?

He goes, I looked into it. - Can you? - There were like 500,000 applicants for a trial of like 200 people or something crazy. Every single guy was like, I need in and on this trial.

But apparently it's like, it works and now I'm just waiting. - Do you think that you should be able to jump the line because you went there?

“- I think there's a lot of reasons I should jump the line.”

- Okay, okay, I'm a tall white male and I'm totally disenfranchised and it's time that I get a black guy. - Yeah, but really you went there, I kind of think alumni should kind of get a leg up. - I mean, I'm obsessed with this.

Not only do I want the product, but I gotta figure out how to be an investor and it before it goes. - Hi. - Anyways.

- Interesting.

- So you've never seen that, right?

- Um, no. - UCLA events. - Exactly in every single guy I've brought it up to has seen it. - Right, well, it's so good. - Yeah.

- They really know-- - Probably works for women too, women. - Yeah, I don't think you guys have unique follicles that can't be woken up from dormancy. - Although, I'm having the opposite situation.

- Too much. - Too much. - I think I'm having new hair growth. - What do you think is coming down? - No, it's not.

- Like a coyote. - If you have to start shaving. - No, the other day I was like looking in the mirror and I was like, what is this poof of hair that's just like sticking out and I asked a hair stylist

and she was like, I think it might be new hair growth. Then I was like, new hair growth, that makes no sense. - That makes no sense. - But.

“- 'Cause the only thing different in your life”

is that you're on tris, do you think you want to--

- I think it would be. - Wouldn't it be even on creative for like four minutes, right? - Like. - But I wouldn't even be surprised if you had another off-label observation

of tris-uppotide is about, by the way, it makes your hair grow back. 'Cause everything you read is like positive. - Yeah, maybe, I don't know, but I don't really want to--

- Make your teeth lighter. - You're not looking for more hair. - Yeah, I find. - You're in a unique position. - I know, and I don't want to have a little puff like this.

That looks weird. - Yeah. - It's hard to style. - It's like when people are pregnant, often this happens, like they lose a lot of hair

and then when it grows back and it's like, in little patch of it looks kind of weird. I mean, it looks great, but, you know. (laughs) - Good say.

- It's only good say. - It's as if he didn't say even say weird. (laughs) - So yeah, yeah, so yeah, hair. Okay, well, would you ever consider going to Turkey

and getting new hair, but you don't need it? - I don't think I need it. - I don't think I need to do that. - Yeah, but if you were like, oh fuck, like, it's going. - You know, this is a great topic.

I mean, there's a lot of battles happening in my head. And I think they're age-related.

“And so, and I think I spoke on it a little bit”

when Zach Brathas here, which is like 85% of the time, I'm like, yeah, we're getting older and you look fine. And maybe your hair's thinner and blah, blah, blah, blah. Be a more wrinkles. 85% of the time, I feel that way.

- Yeah. - And then 15% of the time, I can make a very solid argument. And here's how the argument goes. I use white need toothpaste.

I want my teeth to be white. I use moisturizer on my skin. I put drops in my eyes, so they're white before I'm on camera. I do all this stuff. So why am I drawing this arbitrary line between

I wouldn't do this? I mean, I am vain, that's not like I'm not vain. - Right. - And then I go, and I have the means too. So what do we do?

Like, what's the hang up? - Right. - And then I go back to like, I don't give a fun, and I think it's cool. - It's really not give a fuck.

- Yeah, and I think even specifically for men probably, it's a-- - I agree. - Probably a better look in general. - I mean, I don't ever want to do what they want, but I'm not aware of you.

- It's not weird, it's great. But I agree that there's something like cool, attractive about not, about someone not caring that. I mean, caring, like putting yourself, like, not smelling like shit.

- Not smelling like shit. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - And so yeah, I'm kind of, I'm with you on that.

- Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. (upbeat music) - What do you rather, this is back to the poop? I mean, the smelling like shit. - Okay.

- Do you think it's grosser to not,

but try to be objective, I guess. Do you think it's grosser to be with someone

who never gets their teeth cleaned, never,

or has skin marks? - Well, we need some, I need some follow. - Okay, okay, okay. Is there mouth like a rat's nest? Or does it look complete?

Is it mine? Because I don't go to the dentist.

“- Right, that's why I know this is the wrong person.”

- I know, but I wanted to, okay. - But two times in 20 years. - I know, that is wild, but also I too don't get my teeth cleaned enough. - Yeah, and they look great. So it's like, there's nothing about your mouth

that I'm going yuck. - Right. - But if you let shit marks all the time in your under's. - Right. - I'd be like gross man, wipe your high knee.

- Exactly. - Right, so I'm with Jess, obviously. And he, I don't know, oh, he spilled chocolate ice cream everywhere, right? And it looked disgusting. - Yeah.

- And he said it looked like skid marks.

And I said, do you get skid marks? And he said, a lot less. (laughing) - Oh, that was a lot less. (laughing)

- I just said, no, no, the answer should be, no, I don't. - Yeah. And he said, well, no, I said, let, I said, let, I was like, I know, but you shouldn't, you shouldn't have any. - Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try my hardest. - Okay.

- I'm not gonna say who this is, but you'll know. But I have a friend who, he'll say, dude, I put the bar of soap up of my asshole. Like I clean my asshole so thoroughly in the shower. - Yeah. - And then I get out and I dry off.

And then I can wipe my butt. And they'll be, and so I don't know about, like, if that's not my scenario, I, I don't have, like, I guess a leaky. - I'm a leaker. - I know. - Thank God.

I mean, there's so many things to be grateful for that we're not, that we should be all being on. - It's true. - Yeah, I'm not leaking sewage. - Thank God. - I know.

- So it's not weird. - It's not. - It's not. - It's very attractive. - Then he came back, his retort was like, well, you don't get your teeth cleaned.

- Okay, yeah, he felt a little different. - Yeah, understandably sure. - Yeah, yeah. - But you, because I guess Anna and I recently had said, like, yeah, we like barely get our teeth go to the dentist. - Yeah.

- And he goes to the dentist regularly for real cleaning.

“And you should go, like, look, you should go to the dentist, right?”

- Yeah, but everyone will put in the comments. - It's a brain infection. - Exactly, we know. - We know. - And heart disease, like, yes.

- Infectious. We know 80% of disease is emanating from the mouth. - That's right. - That's right. - That's right.

- You're right. - And we're not doing it. And so for him, he was like, that's worse. And he said, he said, that's worse, that's more disgusting. - Wow. - So I didn't know where everyone landed.

I mean, I did feel like you probably were on my side about this. - Yeah, yeah. - 'Cause you also don't get your teeth cleaned. - I don't mean to get more. - Nothing really bums me out, as you know.

- Sure. - Yeah, you're down with anything. - I'm pretty much down with everything. - But if you saw a big skid mark, as you were taking someone's garments off, just before you were perhaps going to...

- Be down there. - Be down there. - Yeah. - You know, I don't know. Is that what you want to see immediately before?

You might go, let's re-schedule this portion of it. - Oh, my God. - Oh, my God. - Okay, okay, that one question I had that I was excited to hear about was, so we were gone for, I guess, five days.

- They were. I was going for a longer as an Austin, your mark that. You and Anna were neighbors. - Yeah. - So Anna was staying here at the house.

- Yes. - What was that like to be neighbors? - She didn't come over. - Oh, my God. - Can I get no over?

- Oh, what? - I know. - What's wrong with you? - No, no, she had family in town. - Oh, she did.

- Yeah, that was the, she had family reunion at my house, while-- - Oh my God. - Oh, my God. - She's gonna be like angry at me.

(laughing)

“- I'm sure, I think, I'm sure she asked Kristen.”

Anyway, she had two cousins in town. And so she had plans with them. And so she didn't, and like one day I was outside and my beautiful deck. And Jess was there and we faced her and I was like,

"Come over, bring your, just come over." - Bring your holds to the family reunion. - Oh, we're like gonna get in the pool. I'm like, what? And then Jess was like, well, we could go over there

and then I said, I don't wanna go over there when Dax and Kristen aren't there. I feel kind of weird about it for some reason.

And so then we just never saw each other.

- He, she came over. - It's funny you'd say that 'cause I remember I wanted to ask you about this program. - Oh, okay. - I want to say like, what was like being neighbors was a fun?

- And then when I, I was, I knew I wanted to ask that.

It sounds fun. - Yeah. - 'Cause you guys hang so much. - Right. - And then I thought, what if she came over

and went in the sauna? - You'd be mad.

“- Then I was like, yeah, I think I've invited you”

like five times to come in the sauna and you have it and then I go out of town and then Anna invite you and then you go. - Woo! - That could be mad at her.

- That crossed my mind. I was like, why am I feeling like a little hurt? Like, oh, you're not gonna come over when I invite you, but when Anna invites you, you go over. - Yeah.

- Right, like, what if you would invited me over for breakfast like five times at your house? I don't, I can't go for all these reasons. And then you're in the stand at your house and you invite me over for breakfast

and like, yeah, I'll be there in five. - Yeah. - Right, no. - I don't actually know if I would

because it'd be one thing if I never came over here.

I come over here, I'm here every day. - Yeah, yeah. - So, you know, I think that's a little different maybe. Because if you came over to my house all the time, but you just weren't coming over for breakfast,

and then Aaron was staying at my house and he invited you for breakfast. I think I'd be like, oh, it just worked out timing why. - But also you have somehow breakfast, that's to include like, I got a brand-new,

it's very special breakfast now. - Oh. - Like, I got a very good meal to call Anna. - And I love how social it can be. - Oh, okay, I'll go.

- And then you don't come and then I leave and then you're like, hey, you call on and you're like, I'm dying to go. - I've been dying at that time. - Finally, that's gone, so let's... - No, like, okay, let's pull back the curtain.

(laughing) I feel like, you guys can vibe me over way more. (laughing) - Maybe just not to sauna.

- Yeah, you never, you never invite me,

you only invite me over to sauna and it's like, - That's all I do. - Right, but it's like that's so sweaty. - I can tell you my evening's the exact, just like my breakfast and my, you know,

my evening is the exact same every single night. I saw that five o'clock, I cold plunge. I get in the hot tub with the girls, I hear about their day. Then we have dinner, we watch TV and go to bed. So the only time to be social in that scenario

is the big sauna block. - I guess you're gonna vibe me over for dinner. - You could come over for dinner, that makes a lot of sense. That's a lot, that's very traditional, actually. - I mean, like, I guess TV...

- TV's in bed which we're already in capacity. We go into the room. - Don't mind, I don't need to do anything. - There's four of us in the one bed, it's already a little tight. - Get it.

- Yeah, so you guys never hung out, that's the point. - We didn't hang out, but I definitely didn't go in the sauna, do not worry, do not worry about that. And I'll come over to sauna, I just, you know, - I just don't like the sauna.

- Well, I do like it. There's a couple of hurdles.

“One, you have to be in a bathing suit in the sauna.”

- You can wear a full lot, you can wear this outfit. - You don't sweat it, you actually have the freedom to wear anything. - I know, but I don't sweat. - Well, I do sweat in the sauna.

It's actually the only place I sweat. It's why I do enjoy it. I do feel good after 'cause I've sweat. - Yeah. - But you've to wear bathing suit.

And that means you have to be well kept. - And you won't count, is that you don't wanna count. - Well, okay, tempting is tricky because I don't like to shave, it's like, that's like not like a pet.

- Can I make a pet? - Yeah. - Bading suit, boxers. - Short, that's like so ugly, but oh, I mean, it's great. - It looks great.

- And if that's how you like to sauna, you're even hotter for it. - Can I say the other tension in my head? - Oh, yeah, sure. - Yeah.

- So that's one battle's waging, the, my aging. - Okay. 5% of the time, who cares, let's go. - Bring on the wrinkle. - Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Bring on the thinning here. Pitching percent time, let's throw everything we can at this. Let's get a face lift, let's do it all. - Okay. - I know.

That's like 15% time. - I know. - Anyways, the other tension, and this is, I don't really, I don't know, or, this is so confusing to me.

When I'm in Nashville, I'm so happy. - Yeah. - I can't tell you, it will make no sensey, but I cannot tell you the amount of joy I get from doing stupid tasks around the yard.

- That's great. - And in the garage, with the cars and the boat,

“I just, but I'm not, I think it's all useless, right?”

It's just like, I mean, it's not important. It's just like, it's just me staying busy. - Yeah. - And gardening is good for like, - Oh, I agree.

- Yeah, it's good for me, for sure, 'cause like, just to be moving and doing, and that's like, studies on that. I accomplish little things, and I feel good about it. And then, I stroll up like, I really am becoming friends

- Right.

“- And so like, I'll stroll over to his house,”

or he'll stroll over, or this was my favorite part of the whole trip.

His boat was stuck. His boat is on a lift that comes, so you can take it out of the water at night. And he lowered it, and our lake is a little low right now. So when he lowered it on the lift,

it wasn't floating. He couldn't get it off of his lift, and he wanted to take it in for service. And I said, "How about I hook up my pontoon "and see if I can fucking jerk you out of that?"

- Mm-hmm. - Yeah, he jerked it out. - Can I have to be jerk you off that lift? - Lift. - And he was like--

- He was like-- - He was like, I don't, yeah, you think it'll break the, I don't know, like, it wouldn't be fun if there wasn't some plausible threat of meat ruining something. So sure enough, hooked up some ropes,

fucking punched it on the pontoon, pull the boat right off the thing. Glorious, what, what, nothing, that's not productive.

- And I felt like a champion.

- You helped someone? - Yeah, but I'm just saying like, it's not productive in the traditional stuff. - Okay. - It's just like I got someone's boat off a thing,

but it was like, we didn't know if it would work. I had to improvise, it was all very rewarding. - Yeah. - I loved it. So yeah, I stroll over there, I chat with him.

I'm like, oh no, I'm a dirt bike around the yard, I'm a dirt bike for, I am so happy. Or am I supposed to hang out and do that? And I don't know. - Yeah.

- It's a way, I mean, it's a blessing.

“What a fucking enormous blessing that I could get to even evaluate that?”

- Yes. - But it's an interesting thing, where it's like, oh, I also love, I come back here and I love what we're doing right now, and I love interviewing people, and that's really fun.

- Yeah. - And being productive is fun and being engaged is fun. - Yeah. - But man, that's really fun. - I know.

- Like at some point in your life, you gotta decide, I think. - Yeah, you gotta decide. - Yeah. - I, you'll know. - I guess I'll know.

- I think you'll just know. - No, no, no, I think you just have to commit to one thing together. - Really? - I don't know about that.

- I don't know. Okay. - I'll tell you, I had the complete opposite situation. - I'll tell me. - You were gone and then,

also before you were gone, we had a light week, very light week, and then you were gone. We've had like two weeks of like kind of not doing a lot. - Yeah. - And yeah, I still have to edit,

there's meat, whatever, there's things. But the actual like us doing this wasn't really happening. And you know, I've been just like listening to this other podcast non-stop.

But at one point I was like, oh my God, like, we have to get back to work. I cannot do this. Like, and I was also in meetings, like we were in pitches and we had a ton of those.

And at first it was like so annoyed.

I was like, oh, it was first half of the week off. Like I shouldn't be, I shouldn't have scheduled any of this stuff, and then like, thank God I did, 'cause I was like, I know. I need to be working.

Like, I just, I'm not good without that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs) - But if you had gotten a part-time job, well, I was gonna...

- He saw me a model, but I saw me a maru. (laughs) - I don't know if this is a, I can't, I don't know if this is, well, you could tell me, you lived in Atlanta.

- Mm-hm. - Elements suburbs though. - Yeah, that's true. What I'll say is in 30 years in L.A. It might be a, I don't know.

I was very friendly with my neighbors in the one bedroom apartment for 10 years. We were very close together, and we saw each other in the stairwell all the time. - Yeah.

- I went to the birthday parties every, but since I've owned a home, so since in 2006, 20 years of living in L.A. in a home, neighbors here, everyone has a fence. - Everyone has a fence in here.

- Which I can defend, like we have talking about fences with people on Nashville, and they're like, just in general, they're throughed, which I get. It's like, it's just a roof. - It's also different.

- Yeah, yeah, it's my argument in defense of it is like, we're so packed in. You'd have to take all of Nashville and smash it into you, like, you know, for, not this way or my whole thing. - Yeah.

- So when you don't have any space, yeah, you want a little compartment where you feel anonymous, or not, where you don't see people. - Right.

“- I think so, the stress of the city kind of brings”

- It's a city, it's different. - Yeah. - Yes, it's just so different. It's like, it's completely different. - Yeah, and I love,

I'm like, I already love some of my neighbors in Nashville, and I think it's so interesting. - But I do think what's interesting is like, you can have that here, especially especially here. This neighborhood isn't as close as you can get to that.

- It's not very neighborly, I'll just say that, but it's not like, it's not like I'm sitting it out and everyone else is in the streets chatting. That's not the truth. I'd say I'm even maybe the high water market in the neighborhood.

Like, I am chatting with Powery, and I, you know?

- I'm starting a fucking, hey, right thing, you know?

But it's not a neighborly city.

“- It's not a neighborly city, but I actually think”

this neighborhood is fairly neighborly so much, so this doesn't sound good for me, but I went on a long walk yesterday up close field. You know, I went around, not in the neighborhood. I went out.

And when I was coming back, I was like, "Oh, that's entrance to I go into that. I don't see anyone." - Oh, wow. - I didn't want to see anyone that moment.

I knew I was going to, and I did. - Yeah. - And, you know, like, I actually think this neighborhood, I've, like, I've seen K-C front of the pod. My new friends,

Parry, I saw Parry the other day, and then he, he was, it was really cute. I was walking, I saw him, we chatted, and then when I was continuing out, I saw him, he was inside somebody else's house.

- Yeah, he was hanging out with someone. - He's a very neighborly. - Yeah. - And my neighbor, my actual neighbor, talked to them yesterday, like, it's, I feel like people are.

- So here's my, like, my question, but I guess I already have an answer because Aaron lives in a pretty liberal neighborhood and his neighbors are very co-mingling and no one has fences and everyone's in everyone's backyard.

- Yeah. - But there's only two things I can observe that I know, specifically, one is, it's conservative there and it's a liberal here. That's like one thing I know about the differences

from where I'm at in Nashville and where, and then it's more rural versus city. - I think it's more that. - And it's funny 'cause those two things are related in general, like cities are more liberal

than rural, and I just don't know which thing is which. And I'm curious about it.

“- I think that's why the suburbs are a good thing to look at”

because they're not rural and they're not city. They're like so specific and normally, you do know like a couple neighbors. - And they're a nice middle ground too, I think of super conservative and super liberal.

- Right, it's like more, yeah, I was like-- - When you're in the country in the front, and you're a very Republican, yes, yes. - And when you're in downtown New York, so you're very Democrat.

- Yeah, you're very, yeah, probably. And then, yeah, you kind of maybe don't know as much when you're in the suburbs. That depends on where you are, obviously. But, yeah, like my county where I grew up,

is a blue count, went blue. - Right. - So, yeah, anyway, and you know like some of your neighbors kind of, but not--

- No, I know the padmons weren't dialed in, but what you've seen is you drove through your neighborhood, like a bunch of other neighbors and someone else's garage, or do you see them congregating together?

You're trying not to be seen.

- Yeah, not really, like my very, very first house

when I was a baby, my dad, I feel like people would do that a little more, and like my dad would hang out with the neighbor a little bit, but not, it's also, if you have kids, it's different. Kids definitely go hang out with friends in the neighborhood

and then that starts that thing, you know? - Yeah, so like one of my best friends who lives in Georgia lives in a suburb and like her kids go next door and they come, it's like, yes, if there's kids involved,

I think that-- - But that doesn't happen at all in LA. I'm virtually at all, I don't know, anyone in our pod whose kids hang out at a neighbor's house. - Well, no, Erica's, Erica's kids go down the street

to the neighbor's house. - Do they? - Yeah, and then like, they sometimes all come over to her. - The Richardson's don, and the Henson's don, and we don't. Calvin's got a friend down the street.

- Yeah. - He does. - Yeah, people. - And he walks over there? - Yeah.

- Yeah, that's great. - I think it just depends. - Yeah. - I think it depends. But also, you know what's a big part of it?

I'm just putting two and two together. Schools, in the suburbs, you're on the school bus to get like, everyone's going to public school. - Yeah, I am. - So the kids in the neighborhood go to the same school.

- Yes, yeah. - And then they come and they hang out with each other and stand up. - And they take a bike ride. - Yeah, like you, I mean, I used to, in my neighborhood,

my best friend Ashley lived in the neighborhood, and we hung out every day. And I walked to her house every day. And like, we went to this other girl, Kim.

- That was great. - I loved it. - Yeah, it's great. But it's a result of the school bus and school.

Like, the problem is not problem,

but some people go to all different schools. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's so scattered. - Yeah, I don't have any judgment over either side or think, but I will say, I do think it's nicer to be neighborly.

“As I've experienced it, I think that's preferred.”

And just the little ways we're looking out for each other.

I get a text, hey, is it cool-free,

bury the dog on your property? Of course, we're gonna dig a hole. - And now I'm going, that's not gonna happen. - Yeah. - It's all granite.

“Like, we had to blast, you have to blast anything.”

Like if you're gonna put a pull and you got a blast granite, it's just all granite. So I'm like, yeah, go ahead. And in my mind, I'm like, they're not gonna be able to dig a hole out there.

But I'm not gonna get in the way of this, they're more neat, but I'm just staying out of it. - Okay. - And then, sure enough, they went over to buried the dog and they had some picks and stuff,

and they were working for quite a while, and then my buddy, Nate, who's boat, I pulled off. He saw what was going on. - Oh, and he went to hell. - He's in construction.

- Oh, that's nice. - And he had a little front-end loader. - That's very nice.

- And then he said, you guys want me to bring the machine

over and, and you need it? And he's trying a bunch of time digging a hole. - Yeah, that's very sweet. - It's so lovely. And then, you know, he can't get his boat off

and I'm there, and I say, hey, you want me to get you? - And I just, it's very beautiful, it's very nice. - Yeah, I think it's really nice. - Yeah. - I do.

- Oh, I can. - Yeah, I, I don't think it can't be that way here. I just think it's not as, it's not as set up. - Yeah, like, I'm not trying to say,

oh, people in L.A. are bad or liberal for bad. I'm just curious on what forces create these different outcomes that that interests me. - Yeah. - And I like this outcome.

- Yeah, well, you can also have a bad neighbor, and that really sucks. - Going, yeah. - And it really sucks if you don't have a fence, like, if you just have neighbors all over the place

that aren't-- - If you're, if you're bored with your neighbor

“and you have to see them all the time, yeah.”

- Yeah, yeah, and go bad. - It can go bad, yeah. - I can go bad. - But I think that's the thing I like about it. It's kind of like relationships a little bit.

It's like, you enter a neighborhood going like, these aren't people I picked to be friends with. I gotta sign this, but I know we all live together. So I'm gonna have to be a little extra patient, a little extra kind, and all these things.

And I think those are good virtues to just be practicing and have on display. - Yeah, for sure. Just not everyone does it, and then it's tricky. - Okay, I want to do some facts.

- Oh yeah, let's do facts, I forgot. Okay, these are for Jenny, Garth. So did the shackly soup have-- - I looked up shackly soup, because I was like, "Why would they go into the soup game?"

- Right, but then they had like seven day healthy cleanse. Like, I think they're including the soups as like this overall health thing. - Okay, that makes sense. Is the soups are part of a cleanse?

- Yeah, okay. - Okay, I looked up her part in growing pains. - Mm. - I forgot my calls.

“- Did you find paste? What did you need to come for?”

- Hey, it never knows. - That's why you're going to be-- - Yeah, I've wanted a couple of babies like them. - I'm a shot. (audience laughing)

- No, no, no, no, no. - Bye. - Well, how are you two ladies this evening? - Okay. - Okay.

- You underestimate yourselves. (audience laughing) - Oh, we're just buying a little paste. (audience laughing) - Stinky, stinky, stinky, stinky.

(audience laughing) - Oh, she just said stinky, stinky, stinky? - Yes. - Oh, and then they walked away. So she was right.

- She did say hi first though.

- She did multiple lines. - Yeah, she multiple lines. - Do you think they kept it under seven or five, whatever? - Yeah, really.

- Yeah, not under five. - Yeah, not under five. - Stinky, stinky, hello. They probably were surgical. - Hi, stinky, stinky, stinky, yep.

- Oh, wow. - For me, although I know there's categories, you have to pay you a certain amount of you say over, I think, and I know there's to it, yeah. - And maybe it's changed, but then.

Okay, you know what's funny though? So this was, you know, a family show I loved it. - Yeah. - This is how things have changed. Like, when he says they showed the girls,

there's a pop-up that says two available girls. - Baby, Samaricanus. - Yeah. (audience laughing) - And then, and they're like doing like Boeing sounds.

- Yeah, you had to. Back then, they know it was comedy. - Okay, then they show him and it says, "Dude is Horneus." - Ben Seaver, "Dude is Horneus."

(audience laughing) - It's funny, but it's that, like, that-- - For me on today, it wouldn't. - I think it would. - I think it would bring that back,

that's seen that's pretty good. - Yeah, it's funny. Okay, when was Beverly Hillbilly's made? - 1962 is when it premiered. - Wow, that's an old show, yeah.

- Mm-hmm.

- Choice.

- Green acres, 1965, and be which 1964?

- Okay, so all '60s. - Yeah. - That's pretty wild. - I know. - And I was watching as home from school sick in '82.

- Yeah. - So 20 years after the Hillbilly's were-- - And it held up. - Really dead. Also, there was no other options.

- Right, exactly.

“- Okay, how old was Gabrielle Carteris in 902 and 0?”

- She was 29, and then when it was over, she was 34, or when she left it, she was 34. - Okay. - So she was-- - She was older.

- She was older? - Then high school student. - Yeah, she was pretty old. - Also, it's not weird. - It's great.

- It's great. - It's great, it's great. Okay, we talked about shame, and you said, like the beauty of group therapy is that you say something like that you think is horrible,

that you've done, and then people are like,

no, that's fine, like I've done that too.

Have you seen the movie "The Drama"? - Nope. - What's that? - Zendaya and Robert Pattinson, it's out now. - Okay.

- I can't say anything about this movie, like at all. - Everything would be a spoiler. - Yes, but I recommend it. - Okay. - And it's called The Drama, okay.

- And it flies right in the face of that concept. - Oh, really? - Yeah. - It's really interesting. - Ooh, I wanna see it.

Did you see it at the vista? - No, I saw it at the Americana. - Okay. - It's only an hour 45 minutes, God bless. - Oh, really?

'Cause it's two intense. - No, I just hate movies that are too long now. I can't do it. - Oh, wow. - I was supposed to see Projectile Mary.

I really wanted to see it and we're driving there. And I was like, I don't know if I can sit for that long. - How long was that? - I saw I didn't feel long enough. - I didn't feel like it at all.

- I know. - Great movie. - I wanna see it, but I'm not. - Back on up. - Well, you watch it at home as well.

“- Yeah, I think I will try to watch it at home.”

- It's been in a theater for two hours. - I don't know what, I'm just like bad. I'm like, guys, can you please just get movies back to two hours? - It's funny you say that. I think that's a very common opinion.

But when I think of, if I did my top 10 movies, - Of all time. - They're generally longer. - Really? - Yeah, pulp fiction's long.

It's number one, the most Tarantino movies are long. What's fun of time is long. And I want more. - I mean, good little hunting is like. - 90.

- Yeah. - On the dot. - Perfect. - Don't wonder how long that comes. How long do you think it is before you look at it?

- Okay, good question. I think it is, I think it's a hundred minutes. They give her taste. - Okay. - Let's look at it.

- Two hours and six minutes. - Okay, two hours. - 126 minutes. - Okay. - Okay.

- Two hours is fine. - Well, this is two hours is six minutes. - That's your favorite movie of all time. - 25 minutes.

“- So it sounds like it's, 20 minutes shorter than how merry.”

- Yeah, I just can't, it's different. Also, now when you go to the theater, it's a full 30 minutes. - Glad. - Yeah, when you're from your cult time.

- As certain theaters, yeah. - At the Americana, it's 30 minutes. I've been testing it. I've been looking and testing it and I'm annoyed. - That's nuts, it's just started the time.

- Start at the time. - I know that works at the vista. - Yeah, they don't do any-- - And don't play. - Previews and it's great.

- I mean, I guess I need to be sympathetic. This hard to keep these fucking exhibition halls open. Don't wanna go to movies. I gotta figure out how to keep them all like my life. - I understand, but it's annoying.

- It's a bad cycle though, because it prevents people from going. - And they experience isn't as good. - Yeah. - You're right.

- So it's tough. - Short game for a long-term loss. - That's right. - Shame. - Yeah.

- So anyway, I recommend that movie. I would love to know your thoughts on it when you see it. - Yeah, I can't wait. - Oh, see anything was in there? - I know she's great.

- She's great. - She's great, Robert Pattinson's great in it. - Yeah, he's something else, isn't it? - He is. - I was like--

- He's a special dude. - Um, anyway, check that out. Actually don't check it out until they come on the podcast, then check it out. - As a reward.

- Yeah. (laughs) And that's it. - That's it. - Yeah.

- All right, well, I enjoyed Ginny Garth. (sighs) - Kelly. - Kelly. - I loved Kelly.

- Just really at the height of my consumption of Beverly Hills, 902 and L. - Could you ever have a match? - No, I just truly, even if you tried to explain all the little steps

that would lead to that, that's the thing on the podcast. - Kelly, asking her question.

- Yeah, asking, never inappropriate.

So well, by the way. - I love that. - I love that. - I love that. - I love that.

- Kelly's been through a lot. - She has, yeah. - That's a weird. When you said 11 share?

Again, I don't know when today

“can really comprehend that any young person.”

They can't comprehend. - That's so nut. The ever-present and popularity of certain television shows in the 80s and 90s when there was nothing. - It was totally different.

- There were CDs, and there were four networks to watch shows on. - Would nine or two and out have been like, am you nominated? - I don't think so.

- So what shows were like, considered. - West Wing, uh, then? - Yeah. - I thought it was, I thought West Wing was like, more, I feel like West Wing is a thing.

- West Wing is a thing. - West Wing is a thing. - I know that Tommy Shawmy won the most amount of directing enemies of any director. - But that's definitely like prestige television.

I feel like that was like the kind of beginning of prestige television, but like, 90s who know feels before that. - 30 something was winning, um, you know, all the dramas still.

- Oh, interesting. - Interesting. - I wanna look it up real quick. Who, Emmy nominations what year?

“- Again, that's what's happened in this upside down world,”

which is before winning an Emmy was less impressive because there was only seven comedies to choose from. There were 24 dramas, right? Now there's one, 150. - Exactly.

- And then conversely in movies, it's not quite as impressive to win something there

because there's a third of as amount of movies to pull from.

It's all upended. Now if you win an Emmy, like, that's a shootout. (gasps) Only surprised by if you win a golden go for podcasts. - Oh, of course, I should have known.

In '95s, so that was in '90, I don't know, but, you know, whatever, there's not the time. - There's not the time. - Yeah. And why PD Blue?

- Of course. - Frasier. - Boom. - Um, they were the winners.

“- I think sign fell one a lot for the comedy.”

- Right. But I guess, yeah, okay, it was X-Files lawn order,

lawn order would never be.

- No, one would be, that's a procedural that there was 16 of them and it would never be. - And same with NYPD Blue. - Although that one was a bit groundbreaking. - Right.

X-Files lawn order, NYPD Blue, Chicago Hope, ER. - No, I didn't consume both, like you have. The pits better than ER, right? - Um, are they the same? - I don't want to get in trouble.

I think ER is better. - Okay. - Simple, maybe simply because... - Bigger cast, more years. - Yes, huge cast.

The way they're shooting that show is like a movie and there's so many episodes and it's so hot, it's so intense. They're like, you know, coming in in one room and moving into, it's like, it's so well done.

- Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. - And all the characters and like the drama, and the no comedy and so much. - Yeah, plenty of ads. - Yeah, lots of ads.

Like the pit doesn't leave the ER. - Right. - And they did leave the ER in the ER. And I love it. Sometimes I went after the pit,

it immediately goes to ER. - And you love it. - Yeah, boom. - All right, that's it. - Love you, love you. (upbeat music)