Susie Wolff (Managing Director of F1 Academy)

- Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert Expert Expert's on Expert.

I'm Nandcheper and I'm joined by Lily Padman. - Hello.

- We got a fox in today, but her name is Wolf. - Oh, good. Yeah. Good. - Yeah. Good. - Easy. Wolf. Oh.

“- Oh, we love her. - She's so incredible. - Oh, oh. - She's so cool. She's so incredible. Coolest person. - On Earth?”

- Yeah. - Yeah. I felt really lame. I said it. - Yeah. Well, I do too. - It's hard not to feel lame. - She makes me feel lame. - But she is also so sweet and nice and kind and inclusive. - But her gift is to make you feel lame. - Yeah. Yeah, that's her gift. Susie is a former professional racing driver and current managing director of F1 Academy. She's also one of, I think, either the only one or maybe one of two women to ever drive an F1 car on a track on a race weekend.

- Incredible. - And if people remember the total wolf interview, that is her husband.

And he said, she's a half second faster than no matter what he does. When he cheats, he's different tires, puts weight in her car, he can't get anywhere closer. She has a new memoir out called Driven, very appropriate title. Please check that out. Susie Wolf is a blessing on Planet Earth. Enjoy. [Music] - You're a fox with a tub, a cheeko though. This one bites hard.

- Can we treat you as a bite? - A lot of people. - A carbonation. - Yeah. - It's good. It's very good. - Yeah. - And I didn't know they had different ways. - This is shortage. This is only gaining value as we sit.

“- No, you must take it. You must take it. - I only had one, I would want you to.”

- Right. - No, it's a whole world sparkling water. Like the size of the bubbles and the volume of the bubbles. - Totally. - Totally has sparkling water because he has this theory that he doesn't need to get up for the toilet in the night. - If he drinks sparkling water. - Oh, I'm not convinced. - Okay, yeah. - How successful is this to me? He's still up, right? - He's still up. He's still up. He's still up. - He's still up. - He's still up. He's still up. - He's still up. He's still up. He's still up. - He's still up. He's still up.

- I think it's an age thing, but I'm not going to tell him. - Yeah, I'm just saying, you just keep drinking. - He's just going to hear it on the pile. - I will tell him. I will tell him. - But it's so funny because I flew in last night and he's like, "Oh, we're going. I have that. I've been there. Again, I know." He said, "You're going to really enjoy it." - I think you called him while we were in here. - You did.

- We have this bypass where we can always reach each other. - I know. - Which can be embarrassing.

- No, I adopted it since that interview. I didn't know that was an option because in general funds just off, right? It's so annoying. Who can break through to you? - Total? - That's it. - Okay, Jack doesn't have a phone yet. - No, he doesn't have a phone yet, but it's a good point because I should put my mum on it because she's on duty this week. - Okay, but sometimes Jack grabs her phone and he calls me to ask me trivial things like, "Do I really need to have a bath today?" - Yeah. - Yeah. - Like, yes, Jack. Just do whatever your grandmother says. - Oh my God.

- But also he doesn't need a bath. - No, no, he doesn't need a bath. - No, he doesn't need a bath. - And there's nothing worse than smelly boys. - Yeah, I know, and they need to learn early. They don't want to exactly hygiene. There's nothing worse than smelly boys. - Yeah, I'm worried. - No, I'm paranoid that I smell the one to give you a hug and you want to. - It didn't do very good. - But I have girls, so maybe I've been misled because we were bathing them every single night. - More is the routine to get them sleepy. - Yeah. - And at some point, we're like, they're not getting dirty enough to justify your bath. Now it's pretty, you know.

- No, now they bathe, right? - They do, but not every day. - We need to get, I think, because we're getting into some hormone testing. - Well, yeah, yeah, now it's probably time to pick up the-- - And it's time. - It's time.

“- But I think they'll come to the realization on their own. - Of course. - What was standard in Scotland? You were bathing every night? Is it no way, right?”

- What happens in Scotland is not really relatable to the rest of your life? - Yeah, what's the vibe in Scotland in the '80s as a little person? - The vibe was-- we were discussing recently memories of your birthday parties when you were younger. My memory is my dad bringing in an ATV, like a four-wheel terrain vehicle home with a trailer. Nine-ten kids on the back of the trailer hanging on for dear life, and him going through huge mud on this mountain behind the house for a big hill. And that's going faster, but--

- And then we got home and he just sprayed his old down, him and my mom. - Yeah. - It was a really outdoorsy life. - Yeah. - It was-- if I look back now, a brilliant, brilliant childhood. None of the pressures of, like, city or expectations, it was just so wholesome. - It's a little town on the western edge of Scotland and the water, right? It's a tourist town. - Yeah. - Well, it was where everyone took the ferry to all of the outer hibernies, so it was more like a hub where people would arrive.

- Did you say hibernies?

- Outer hibernies? - Outer hibernies? - Oh, I like it. - Oh, I like it. All these hibernies. - I thought it was my accident first. - Who knows? I mean, some of you were. - Okay, yeah. Well, the hybridies are like a whole area of Scotland, off the waste course. - Okay. - And you took the ferry from open? - Would there be transient boyfriends? Like a new boy comes into town in the summer.

“He's with his family, there I'm vacation, you fall in love, they have to return home. - What kind of girl do you think I am?”

- That there was crazy and boyfriends. - One that's driven, but you're still dressed there, determined of the kind that could snag any kind of boyfriends she wanted. - Not at that age. - You know, I was completely uninterested in boys. - You were. - And my dad, I remember sort of stinkly when I was younger, around the age of 12, and my brother was only 15 months older. And he did something about a girl in his class, and then my dad looked to me and said, "You are way too young to have a boyfriend." And I was like, "Yeah, you're right. I'm way too young to have a boyfriend."

And then there was this moment in my childhood that this person will never know what to think they had.

Because one of my dad's good friends who owned a pub, his name was Mario. And he said, "A throw away a comment to me and I must have been like 13 or 14." He said, "You'll be pregnant by the time you're 16 and working in your dad's shop." - What? - I was like, "That is what crazy thing to say to a young girl." - You did it as like a reverse engineering. I was like, "Absolutely not."

So then it was like, "Stay away from boys." - Okay, you have kind of my dream childhood, not even kind of. You have my total dream childhood in that your father owned a motorcycle dealership. Let's start with grandpa. It probably starts with your maternal grandfather, yeah. Being into motorcycles and whatnot.

- So my mother's father was a works motor cross rider in the 1950s. - Wow. - Yeah, and he was an English-dear devil. Anything he did he was really good at. Right trials bikes. - Yes. - And he was sponsored by BSA.

- Yes. He was a BSA works rider, which in his day was like, "He's a god."

- But what for, you know, I have to do this for people who try that.

- Try that. - BSA, there's one of the like historic motorcycle brands. - Okay, great. - And he had a shop also in England that kind of sold the bikes. And when the Japanese bikes started to arrive and kind of took over the market, he realized it wouldn't be a proper sustainable business.

- They couldn't really compete with the influx of jet. And he didn't adopt Sally, man. - Oh, 'cause he's a staunch boy. - Yeah, Nash was a loyal loyalist. - Now, his motorcycle shop was in Scotland.

He moved there to open that. - He moved to Scotland to do a diving. He was changing completely his career. - Diving into water? - Yeah, he was a commercial diver.

- Was he welding underwater? - No.

“- No, I think he was more like in the West Coast of Scotland.”

There's a real industry there to go and collect propellers, which had fallen off because there were so many boats and ferries. - Wow. - And stuff like that. But then I don't really know much about that period,

because of course he got the bins and became paralyzed. - So yeah, he lost the use of his legs, yeah. - He'd done a dive when he hadn't been feeling well and came up too quickly. And he tells the story of them dragging him onto the boat.

Now, bearing in mind, it's a super athletic guy. Very, very sporty. And he remembers lying and his leg was falling off the edge of the bed. And he said there was a moment where I realized

I couldn't bring my leg back up. - Oh my god. - Oh, yeah. - And he said that's when I realized this is not good. So I've only ever known him in a wheelchair,

but you shouldn't think that that stopped him.

I mean, I never once heard him complaining.

He did paragliding as he got older, he opened a caravan. So he very much pivoted around. - He even had crash landings in his paraglider. - Broke his ankle. - He did it with my poor grandfather.

- I guess it doesn't matter. But just to add in there, my grandmother never got a carer. - Wow. - She looked after him all in her own

and dedicated herself, which if I look back now with the perspective I have with age and obviously becoming a wife and a mother incredible. - Yeah. - Really incredible.

- So the results of having that risk-take degree of grandfather is that your mother herself was also quite a risky young woman yet. And she wrote motorcycles from what age on. - Well, my uncle kind of took after my grandfather

that trials bike in nearly one of the Scottish 60s trials and was very talented also on a bike. But when the accident happened, it was difficult for them because suddenly the whole family dynamic changed.

“I think my mum lost quite a lot of confidence”

because suddenly this father figure who so many people looked up to at that time came back home a different man. - Yeah. - In a way and relied so much on my grandmother.

So she lost a couple of years of our teenage years to that whole dynamic changing. And I think when she was 16,

My grandfather said to her,

"Go down and see John's daughter and get yourself a bike." And she loved speed and she is very much, you know, get up and go like my grandfather. Of course, this is where she met my dad and the bike shop. - Oh, this is such a great story.

- I love stories. - I love this, Mickey. - I just wouldn't be who I am today without my mum, because you say a role models, but she set the foundation,

your shadow on business. She raised bikes. It was such an equal marriage between the two of them. And she had as much get up and go as my dad. It absolutely shaped who I am.

- Yeah. So she was in a motorcycle, they meet and fall in love. What's the age gap? - She was 16 when she went to buy a motorcycle.

- And now you're testing me. - Yeah. - Because it doesn't make them look bad here. - Yeah.

- Well, she got her first,

“so you have to be 17 to drive a water bike in Scotland,”

so she was maybe 16 turning 17. So maybe she went to 16 to get ready to fly the bike for 14, 17. She was dating someone else when my dad's friends. - Oh, scandalous, small town. - She was not treating her well.

And it was a really good friend of his day, but her bike tours together, everything. And then it became clear that my mum and dad were better suited. - Simmering. - Simmering.

- Yeah, yeah. - And then I think actually quite similar to me. I think it was my mum was the first one to see. Actually, John. - I'm going in this direction.

- But I think you and I fit. - Yeah. - Okay, so yes, they found them. They get married and then fathers running a motorcycle shop. But he's selling everything presumably,

because you're getting quads and jutsky. - Yeah, and outboards for the fisheries and the fishermen. And basically in a small town, you know what it's like. You sell whatever anyone needs.

- Yeah, right. - So it was motor bikes in the summer. A lot of motor bikes were two or through. Do the whiskey tour, after a Scotland, because it's beautiful scenery. But then the altering vehicles for all the farms.

- But so basically, you had access to every single thing I wanted as a kid. Your first bikes of PW50, yeah? - Yeah. - How old were you when you got that? - Well, no, my very first was a little three wheeler.

Yeah, I'm a three wheeler. And then PB50, I must have been five. - Yes, right. - Right. - This one, my daughter got her first PW50.

- Love it. - Yes, yes, yes. - And then PB80, love that PB80. - Sure, sure. Now your shifting gears with the car.

- No, that's 9,200. The PB80 doesn't still does not clutch. - No. - Okay, here are the 80s all head clutch. - No, and I remember the first time I tried with the clutch.

I was just like, oh, okay. Tell me about it used to. - It's a humbling experience in the first. - Do your brothers and sisters? - Well, the older brother.

- Yeah, 15 months older than me. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, so I wouldn't imagine it's kind of a perfect storm for you. Because similarly, I have a little sister.

“And I think if you have a little sister and she likes you,”

she's just going to trend a little bit more into, I don't know, conventionally boy stuff. What do you think about that? - I think so. And I think it was also my character.

Like, well, anything he can do, I can do. I was very competitive. - Yeah. - And he was a wonderful brother. He still is a wonderful brother.

So he kind of took me under his wing. There wasn't a huge rivalry of, you know, and I don't want her around if he went on his motorbike. He was in his RT100, I was in my PBA-T. He was in the PBA-T.

I was in the PBA-T.

He was always that we were together.

- He was probably proud of you. It's called that a little sister who rides. - True, it goes far too, you know, proud. - That's too much. - But we definitely did a lot of things.

And by parents never really differentiated between a son and daughter. It wasn't like I ever had the feeling that I shouldn't be on a bike or that I was doing anything usual for a girl.

It was very much if you want to do it. You do it. And if you don't, you don't. There was no real pressure or feeling

“that I was doing something unusual for a girl.”

You do have to take one second to worship your father because for people who aren't super into motor sports. The craziest form of racing is definitely MotoGP. It makes F1 drivers look cowardly. So that just start there.

And then the scariest thing in the motorcycle world by far is the Isle of Man TT. And for people who don't know, they're racing on a public road on the circumference of an island. What is it?

Like an 80 mile, 90 mile loop. Every single year, someone dies. Pretty much without exception. It's the most dangerous motor sport imaginable. And your father raced in the island.

And lost his best friend. Lost his best friend. It's just standing. It's so funny you say that now he literally is going there this week.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Because it starts. I think this weekend. And he now goes in obviously.

It seems for a while, but this year, there's no team he's just spectating. Have you ever been? I haven't. I've been invited by Duke Hannean.

I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go. But I know I'll ride on Saturday. You need to go. Wait, you're going to ride on it? On Saturday, the public can take a lap.

Yeah, I bet you can take it easy there. Yeah, yeah. You need to take it easy there. Well, that's my concern is how easy I'll be able to take it. But yes, I do want to do that very much.

I ended up taking total and it was an incredible experience.

Because you just cannot comprehend the speed and the bravery until you get there. The sides of much of the public road are cobblestone walls. So if you come off, you're going into a cobblestone wall. There's numerous.

You're not into it.

I don't want to kill. Monica, there's numerous hills and dips where the people are at one ninety five getting air for like 130 feet and landing as fallen. It is truly the most harraising scariest motor sport in the world. It is.

Your dad did that. He's a warrior. I just want to worship him for one second. So I kind of imagine if dad is doing that, it's hard to take anyone serious if anyone's saying like be careful.

Or maybe that wasn't even being said in your household. It wasn't being said, but it wasn't like we were Camacazzy either. I guess there was a structure to it that it wasn't just like grabbing a bike and go flat out. We built a little track kind of in the hills behind where we lived.

And of course we got to stop watch out and it was who could go quicker. But we weren't Camacazzy.

Because there was an element where you always had to have a helmet on.

You had to have your proper boots on and you had a respect. You cleaned your bike when you came home. You put it probably in the garage. So we weren't Camacazzy, but we loved speed. And we loved that life of being out and that feeling of you know. Yeah, adrenaline.

“Were you scared when your dad went to do this thing?”

I was too young to even realize. Oh, and actually my mom made him stop when he lost his best friend. And when we were young kids. Because I think for her, she felt well. That's way too risky now that we've got children.

I also think they said like okay, so daddy's going away to the most dangerous lethal race in the world this weekend. Well, yeah, the way. They kind of push that part of the world. There were pictures up in the wall, but I never really comprehend it until I went. I never really comprehended what he did.

It's madness. Promise me you'll go. Oh, yes. Because you were really, really love it. Okay.

When do we get into a car eight years old? It's slightly before because my dad had a bit of a middle life crisis and went back to racing. And he wrote bikes for his 40th birthday. He got himself a bike. So we would spend a lot of time at not kill the only track in Scotland. But because we were not really that interested in just watching my dad,

there was a kind of perimeter road to the track where we would be doing laps. Now, our P.V. 50 and P.V. 80s taking on R.T. 100s and what a cold one to fives. And there was a little car track there. And I remember distinctly it was five pounds for 15 minutes. Well, we pounded my parents for five and another five and another five.

And then eventually, I think my mom said to my dad, Listen, we come to these race weekends. It's all about you. I think it's time that the kids did something. Yeah.

So we got a go car of kind of around our eighth birthday. A shared go car between you and David. No, because he was bigger than me. I mean, they were second hand.

“They were, I'll never forget Swiss Hutless.”

It was red. It was quite rusty and peeling with paint. That was so in love with this thing. Yeah. And did you show more aptitude in that relative to David?

Like, you had to be a mildly competitive with your brother. And did this feel like something shit I might have the upper hand here? But that time, no. We would like be out in the higher cards smashing lumps out of each other to see if you could win.

Yeah. And then suddenly, when we got to our very first race, we were a bit like, oh, there's like 100 kids here. Yeah. Yeah.

And it wasn't any more me, but I see him. It was more like, this is big now. We've got a lot of competition.

And we never really had...

Well, no, that's not true. I was going to see we never really had a big rap, but we did have one race where I should have won. He took me out on the last lap. Okay.

And we didn't speak for the whole way home. Oh, God. And after that, my dad always made sure we were in different categories. Oh, God. Oh, God.

And I stayed.

“And then we never raised each other again.”

Your father had Serena and Venus on his knees. Yeah. That wasn't that smart. So we're using receiving instruction. Are you just kind of learning as you went?

I definitely wasn't a clear talent at the beginning. I mean, it was quite daunting being on a much bigger track. Lots of other kids out there. I always tell the same story. I went out the first time and it was like...

Scary. And I came into the pits and I said to my dad, I really don't like it out there. I mean, that's a lot. You like chaos going back.

A lot of kids and they kind of like getting hit as you were getting past them. Yeah. Just aggressive little boys. Yeah.

Lots of aggressive little boys. Yeah. Are you the only girl there?

I was, but I never realized I was.

Yeah. No. Because we're all wearing helmets. Nobody really spoke about me being a girl at that time. I was just Susie.

And my dad said, "Well, we got two options now." Because his nickname for him was always toots. We put the cart back in the truck and we head home. Where you go back out there. You're trying to go quicker.

And when they hit you, you're going to hit them back twice as hard. So me being the character of boys is like, "I'll go back out there." I will get faster. And then it was something that just became all consuming in a very good way. You're so cool.

Yeah, she's so cool. Oh my god. Oh my god. So lame. You're not lame.

No, you're not lame. You're not lame. No, I am. I think it must be meant. How do you not have fear?

I'll let you answer. Both of you can answer. It's funny enough, I'm watching it right now. So I went to our eldest daughter when she was about seven or eight. And at that point, she already rode dirt bikes.

She had an off-road razor, like a vehicle.

I love that you gave her a job.

Like a real immediate aptitude, and I said, "Hey, we could get carts.

You and me. We have a tour bus. We could just start hitting races. I'm ready if you're up for it."

“And she was like, "Well, take me to the cart track."”

And let me see if I like it. I take her to the cart track to go. Go go to one of the juniors. It's all boys who've already done it a bunch of times. She says, "One session, she comes back."

And she's like, "I don't like it." And I went, "Mm-hmm." Okay. Heartbroken. All I wanted as a kid was to someone to support me.

Doing that. I now have the money to do that, and she just was not interested. Fast forward to like maybe eight months ago. So I want to go back to the cart track. Take her back. Now she's super into it. She's 13.

It's too late for anything compared to it. It's not. Okay. Well, that's encouraging. It's definitely not. Point is is what I got to observe, which was the most rewarding was.

In soccer, when she played soccer, she didn't have that, like, "I'm going to kill this person for the ball." She didn't have that, which I could care less. But within three sessions at the track, when she started getting good, and there were slow adults out there.

I started noticing, like, "Oh, she wants to kill these people to get by." That magic thing is just kind of happened. And yeah, you kind of either have that. One of us is going to the center of this turn. And it's going to be me.

But you know what I'm doing now, where they find a academy. It's because of girls at your daughter. Because I'm pretty sure, if that little girl at eight at her first time at the cart track, it's in another little girl out there. Yeah.

That kind of changed her whole experience of it, but because that first experience was daunting, like, "Mine was daunting, but I had that older brother." I was like, "Well, she's doing half figured out." And now she's 13. She's got a bit more confidence. She's a bit older. She asked to go back there.

Uh-huh. It's in her. Anyways, it's not about her. No, but this is so encouraging for me.

“Because that, I think, is the shift that's happening within Motisport now.”

Because before it's always seen as this e-oestacle,

it's natural, male-dominated world. It's changing, and it has to change. Because there's so many talented young drivers that are female, like your daughter out there that just need to be exposed to it, because they've got that passion within them. You were saying in a different interview, I listened to you,

and which I hadn't thought of. This is really in really three sports, where the men and women are together, and it's horse jump. Writing or jumping, yeah. Oh, yeah.

The sailing and driving. Whoa. And all involved either big piece of equipment or a big animal. Yeah, that's true. Weird.

I definitely don't believe, and having been in the sport for as long as I have, that there's any reason why women can't compete at the very top. It just comes down to the talent pool and they kind of pipeline. Well, let us, for the most skeptical audience member, what about someone who's like, what about just testosterone as a

aggressive hormone that boys at 18 have an excessive amount of? Do you think there's any deficit for not having that?

Listen, I would never claim to see a man and a woman or a young boy

and a young girl are the same biologically, clearly. We're all made up definitely, but it also comes down to individuals. Exactly. And it's so funny you mentioned testosterone, because when I was racing, I won't see what age I was.

I had a medical and I had high levels of testosterone. We were just never taking supplements or anything like that at that time. And immediately, the guys that did the kind of assessment said, "Oh, this is an outlier.

“We do some more tests and studies, because I think this is maybe why you are a racing driver."”

And I went away and thought about overnight and came back and it said, "No, I don't want me being singled out." Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think my results are the basis or should form what a female racing driver. Because I think it comes much more down to characteristics of the individual.

There are some girls who are really tough. Also, they were chicken and eggina. And I would argue your participation in it. Your body starts reacting. And we have tons of data on stock brokers.

When they make risk your trades or testosterone goes up, which gets more riskier trades. It's working in both directions. Yeah. So, yeah, your body could have been like, "Oh, no, we're in a situation where we need more testosterone." Yeah.

But I don't think that the aggression is something which can stop a woman, not being successful in the sport. Because you can also argue that red mist and overaggression is a real negative. Exactly. Yes.

Unless you're somehow max for step and then you're a bull. You're on the eight. Whatever that thing is, it's like I'm really bad. You're like the Nurburgring 24 hours. Yes.

Incredible. He's such a god. It's crazy. Yeah. I know 13's a pivotal moment.

But between eight and 13, when you're starting to cut a lot, and you're starting to raise. Walk me through some of those challenges. You're slowly, I bet it starts occurring to you. Oh, I'm the only girl here. I want to very few.

Not at that age. I wasn't your stereotypical tomboy. I loved pink. I played with Barbie. I asked for pink sidewalks for my go cards.

I had a pink race suit. Your father was using Barbies as leverage to get you to do things. He offered to buy you a very specific place. So boy, the cowboy Barbie. Oh, I still have it.

Oh, so cute. And it was when I was 13. I was taken to watch a Formula Three race at Donnington. There's an English driver at that time called Jensen Button,

Who of course went on to be a World Champion.

He's also a fucking gorgeous. I just sorry. I can't judge drivers as hot or not. You can't.

I always had this rule I would never date another driver.

And even now, when, obviously, there's a lot more interesting, if one of them, like, oh, he's not like, is he? Yeah. Yeah, it is a stable of the cutest boys in the world. Really?

It's asymmetric to any other sport. Where it's like, why are they all? Well, I kind of have a theory on why they're also good looking. They're often the children of rich people. Right.

I mean, that's just the fact. No, not always. Oh, my God. Let's go through the current race. No, this is not from yet.

He is in exception. Kimmy Antonelli is not from huge wealth. OK, you're right. George Russell is not from huge wealth. He's a huge wealth world.

No, no, no, no. No, no, no. I mean, his father saw these business recently, but he didn't have a lot of them.

“And that's why he relied on junior programs.”

Landers, families. Landers. The girls. Charles is an uncle, uncle who was supporting. But his uncle helped, but he comes from a very humble background.

Yeah, okay. Yeah. But he's just so, he's a model. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

I wouldn't have this or things. She plays for total. No, I don't. I don't want to. I don't want to.

His wife is beautiful. Yes. She is beautiful. There are beautiful hair. Great couple.

But total so hot. Oh, total definitely hot. Yeah. She's the hottest. OK, so back to F3.

You saw an F3 race. Jensen Button. I interrupted you. And that's when I think it all changed in my hair. Suddenly, what was just a hobby?

I suddenly thought, wait a minute. I can do this. I think that environment, the car.

“I never forget the first time I walked into the garage.”

Everything was so immaculate and precise. And the engineers. And I just thought, this is where I want to be. And suddenly, I was like, OK, I can be racing driver. I can get some car.

I think move to single seaters and get to F3. And then maybe get to F1.

And never once did I question why there was no woman in F1.

I simply had they would cool out on my walk because he was Scottish. Jack Villeneuve. Cause he was in the Williams. And at 18, we'd done the World Championships. And Lewis Hamilton was there.

And he could roll his back. Just like Wayne Rainy on your wall. Wayne Rainy, Kevin Schwand. There we go. And the Kevin Schwand Spying Club loved him.

Yeah. With the yellow by Diana. All of him so much. So once you saw that and you got more focused on, OK, I want to do this as a career. Did you start taking your time the weekends at the race to start educating yourself?

Like, I want you to explain to people what you had to learn about the mechanics of the car, and the engineering of the car. Your job is not just to get in there and drive the car. You could do that. But the great drivers in history have been able to give really important feedback

to their mechanics and their engineers to make the car faster. If they don't have that vernacular, there's going to be only so much you can develop the car or the car. This is kind of a big component of it. It really is. And then when you get to Europe in a World Championships level, it comes down to the finest details.

Like, what tour you're running, what camber, what sprocket.

“It's not like you need to sit down and really educate yourself.”

You live it. So you're trying different things with your cars to get small advantage. Like different thicknesses of rear axle, tire pressures, how many what do we call them again? Seat supports because that changed the way. Where your weight or distribution was in the car?

And I always had to carry extra weight so we would move the weight around to see which was the optimum.

Which could have been nice because you could put it on the weak inside wheel. We took the same luck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But some people don't. I want to give you credit.

Some people don't take the time to do that. Sometimes it's exhausting. I'm a real perfectionist. So I was the one that curated all the folders that had the set-up sheets from every race, so that when we came back, I knew exactly where to start for them. What we changed my notes on each track.

I loved like the color coordinated folders and all the set-up sheets. I also want to introduce when is juggling the pros and cons of being the only girl at these races? Because there's upside-down side and I want to explore what those tensions were. I think the only moment I really, because I grew up racing with Lewis and that generation. Let's talk about that.

So for a while, you were in the Scottish league. Scottish then you were in the driver of the year, 14 people? Well, no. Yeah, but that was really national. But then you stepped up to the British carging.

Yeah, it had a bit of success in the British carging, which allowed me to qualify them for the European championships. And where do you meet Lewis at? Well, very early on, I think I was only nine, we would go on down for our first British race. And they were all talking about this little boy with the yellow helmet who was outstanding. And it was Lewis.

How old was he? He would have been eight. I see you're a year older than him. I'm nearly two years older than him. Little boy of the yellow helmet.

Hey, hey, hey, hey. It's a really cute picture. And did you race against him? In karting, we were at the age of kind of 14. We ended up in the same class because then we became 14 to 16 year olds.

So we weren't always there at competitors, but then became competitors towards the end. And then when he moved into single-seaters, we were always nearly, but I was sometimes the category above. Get your little older. Yeah, but there's the famous formula I know podium where I made P3.

He won the race.

And I couldn't get my champagne open. He was a lot more used to winning than I was. So grab the bottle from me and open the champagne for me and give it back to me. Oh, my goodness. If I go back to the World Championships,

I'd finish 15th overall, which was solid because it was over 130 people there. But I was cold to the podium ceremony. And when I was cold, the morning, the team where I ran, there was maybe 20 of us in the team. We were all like, why are you being cold? I'm like, oh, I haven't had an issue with my kart or something.

Or I'm squall five from the race. And it was really weird that they were calling me over the Tanoi. So I run over the podium ceremonies happening. And I'm cold up on stage to receive an award for top female in the world. Oh, my god.

And I was like so embarrassed in front of my whole team.

And my first thought was, I don't even remember singing another girl.

And it was actually, there was a thing that was four of us.

“What if you had won the Best Ann Wars female in the world?”

I mean, seriously. Small as the best. It feels like a pad on the head. And I think the organizers, they were probably just trying to be nice. Yeah, I'm sure.

But I think that was definitely the moment. And of course, everyone made jokes afterwards with the fact that, oh, you're great. You beat through the other girls. Right. But it was the moment I definitely thought, oh, this is going to be different than I thought. This is a thing.

Because they see me as different. But I moved into single seaters. It became the topic. There was a girl trying to make it in racing. Yeah.

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“Is it fair to say maybe you would have gotten a sponsor easier?”

Definitely got a lot more media attention.

Didn't always know how to manage it?

Yeah, that's a lot. You kind of need it commercially because racing is expensive. But in the other hand, I remember going to some photo shoots and there was stuff. I'm not wearing that, you don't have a driver. At that time, the sport isn't what it is now.

And there was very much stereotypes of you were a girl that had to lay the run and pose in a car. Or you were a girl that drove the car. Yeah. And I would imagine to you want to be asked about driving. And they probably want to ask you about being a female.

All they wanted to ask me about was being a female. And that's fair enough. And I always thought talking about it can help others maybe being spared. By or not being spared because at that time I was never out to inspire others. You have to win races.

Yeah. And I realized pretty quickly that it was all about the performance on track. Yes, you could talk about my gender, but it made it even more important than I went out there and showed what I could do.

“Because everyone seemed to have an opinion that I was either not going to be good enough or not physically fed enough for her.”

She's just there because she's a girl or she's only got the sponsor because she's a girl. So for me, I needed to go out and have the validation of her results. She to say, "No, this is why I can do it because I'm cooking off and I can't compete."

So it was always that validation through results.

And that's what I love about sport. It's so pure. Yeah, it's empirical, it's objective. Not subjective. I would struggle in your industry.

Yeah, this one is pretty subjective. Yeah, but sometimes you hit the hot streak of the subjectivity. You're like, "Fuck it, I'll take it." You're like, "I don't think I'm better than that guy, but I'll take it." Yeah, what kind of neuroses arise in this period?

Because you're young and you're asked to represent all girls in race. You didn't sign up for. You're a token. I'll just advise you to listen. Do you know who Malcolm Gladwell is?

He's like a very famous American writer. And he has a great podcast called "Rusion of History." And he did an episode called "The Token." And talking about the weight of being a token and how it's not fair to judge someone like Sammy Davis Jr. because he was first one through the door and what he had to deal with just to be there.

So other people can walk through. I don't know, until you take a minute to stop and think about the pressure of being a token, I think it's a really isolating. Did you feel very isolated in that experience? I remember real periods of loneliness.

But it's difficult because I only have my own experience. So I don't know how different it was to someone else. That wasn't a woman that are feeling lonely anyways. But I definitely struggled sometimes in the environment. Because it was very much of a male kind of match or egoistical.

That's where I decided I wouldn't be in other racing drivers

because I would over here the way they spoke about women and girls.

I thought, "Well, I never want to be spoken about like that."

But I didn't feel like in that situation. I could always be the one saying, "Hey, don't do that." You're saying you're seeing that. That's not fair on her. So I just kind of detached myself from it.

So I never want to be spoken about like that. I just had a love for the sport that meant I didn't want everything around my gender to take away from my love for just doing the sport and achieving. But you're giving up a big chunk of your life when you're a kid. Did all your weekends or that?

You're traveling. So if you don't have friendships at the races, then you're really missing a big opportunity or a big chunk that you would. Did you have friends in the race? I had I shared a house with a bunch of Irish drivers.

And they became like my big brothers. And there was a lot of camaraderie. I did have friends who looked out for me and who we had a laugh with. But there was always just that invisible line. Yeah.

Looking back now with the perspective I had,

“I think there was definitely moments where I would walk into a garage,”

especially if I joined a new team. I could feel the skepticism. Many people say, "Well, what would it be?" It's not a direct comment. I feel the skepticism or this idea that, "Oh, we have horror.

We didn't get him." And then when you have a bit of success for that team, first of all, they're a bit like, "Oh, you can." But then at the minute you get them with you, they are loyal. The environment and everything that comes with racing aside from being in the car and performing. You just become used, well, that's part of it.

And that's part of the game. And it's an important part of the game. Because if you're not doing the media and the sponsorship commitments, you're not racing. Yeah, it's not about the financial stress of that whole period.

Well, I'm giving you my age here because my main sponsor was British telecom. Because they were launching something called broadband. Okay. Yeah. That's how long it was.

But they were in my CV. It's an actually, I had a really tough year in 2005. Because they were my main sponsor for Formula 3. And then I was at home visiting my grandmother, went out to buy her milk, slipped, broke my ankle.

Oh, no. And those were dark months. I lost my race license. I lost my sponsor. I lost my seat in there three.

And you were how old then? Twenty-two.

“And you'd already left because you went to University of Edinburgh for a year.”

Yeah, I was a very conscious student because my parents always said,

"Can't race unless you do what it's going." I'm a graph there. I don't have the natural ability, but I have no problem to work really hard. So I ended up second in my year in high school. And there was a lot of expectation that I would go to university.

I picked international business easiest thing when you really know clue. Yeah. But really felt like a duck-out of water university. They were all part-team drinking and I'm like, "What am I doing here?" Is that because you had a certain immaturity,

because you hadn't been hanging out on the weekends going to day. I think it is much dirty. 'Cause I've been doing something so long. You don't feel like you had missed out on childhood at all by racing. I've been doing something so long.

You don't feel like you had missed out on childhood at all by racing. I'm not a big drinker at all, even to this day. So I would see them all going and get blind drunk. And I'd be like, "What are you guys doing?" Yeah, yeah.

And then I would have races on the weekend. So I would be kind of training. And I was just in a different planet to the planet. I got transported to.

And did never feel right there.

So when I left after one year. Was that hard?

“Did you feel like you were disappointing mom and dad?”

It was more hard that it's what everyone expected me to do to have this backup plan. And I remember going into the economics lecture in the first day of my second year. I'd gone back. And I just thought, "What am I doing here?" I'm here because everyone tells me she'd be here.

I'm just a sheep that's following the vlog. I just don't want to be here. And I called home. And one week later, I had all my positions in a little Gulf TDI, which was my parents' car. I rented a room near Silverstone, worked as a Marshal waving the flag.

And a little shot that sold racewear, and focused fully on racing. You get into Formula 3 and 2001. 2001 and 2004. It was a Formula Renault. I'm sorry.

No, but no. So now you've gone from carding to a single seat race car. And you do pretty good there. 2004, you finish fifth over it. Yeah, I nearly got third.

And that's the break through year because I got nominated for British Young Driver for the year. Not just girl. And that was the first time a girl had ever been nominated. And that's when total first heard my name. Oh, really?

We were a support race at this big festival. And he tells the story of coming over the loudspeaker. The Formula Renault race coming in this girl that was fighting for the podium. And at the time there was just no girls. Racing never mind fighting for podium.

And he remembers things himself. I need to confine the Suzie. Yeah. Just because he was interested because he was driver managing at that time. Yeah.

But let's just say I wasn't very Polish version of myself then. So glad he didn't find me. Okay. So you break your ankle. I read jogging.

Now you're seeing the help Grandma. I was exiting the news agents with the milk and the bread. Oh, I slept. Are you so mad at Grandma? No.

Grandma had taken care of her. And Grandpa has taken care of her.

No, it was the other side of the family.

Oh, it was the other side of the family.

Oh, then yeah, you can be mad at her. Yeah, you could. Okay. So what was the Formula 3 experience? You're on the feeder for Formula 1.

Yes. If three F2 F1. If we had to like make an analogy to US sports. To go from carding would be like you're on a state champion high school team. And then to go to single seat Renault.

You've gone into college. And now when you get to Formula 3, like you're in the professional league. Yeah. This is very simple.

You're bubbling.

“How many female drivers were in Formula 3 at that point?”

Or had been? There were a couple of races. There were at the time. Like Katherine Lake who's in in the 500 now. She was racing at that time.

And how would you all get along when you saw each other? Because this might be counterintuitive. You might think, oh, you would get along so well. But maybe not. Because often the tokens are pitted against each other.

Exactly. We were always pitted. And I felt it was unnatural to try and form a relationship. Someone just raised to it's another girl. Yeah, right.

And I remember distinctly then when we made it to German two and go,

I think we'd always arrange these four to shoot just with the girl drivers.

I was always so against it. Yeah. Why do you pitted against each other? Everyone else that we need to be at? Right.

Okay, so how did Formula 3 go? Well, it didn't. Because I didn't go. Testing. And then the anger and I didn't ever compete in a race.

I lost everything that year. And went to a really probably the toughest time of my life. And then I got from an old team boss. I was testing world series, which was like a competitor to F3. With the thought that I would be racing that the following year,

under kind of like a sponsorship agreement. But I got called into meeting in February six weeks before the first race. And got told that they kind of miscalculated the marketing budget. And I'd need to bring 250,000 euros or pounds. Which just was completely unrealistic for me at that time.

I walked out of the meeting. And I remember like, yes, I was sitting in my golf TDI. And I called my dad. It sounds like I only speak to my dad. I speak to him a lot as well.

Just in those moments, it's my dad.

“And I remember saying, well, what am I going to do?”

So I had a note to it. As I was kind of not really knowing what to say to him, a German number was trying to call my phone. So I said, no dad, there's another call coming. I'll take this and I'll call you back.

And I picked up the phone in this gentleman in a very thick German accent. Said, this is Gerdonger from Mercedes-Benz Motorsport. What do you think of German touring cars? Now I'd tested the car and the British owned driver of the year award. I knew the car, it was 500 horsepower, mega touring car.

A C-class Mercedes, right? Monica, this is your car. I have one of those. You have a, well, it was a gift. She's 63.

She has a C-43. She's not. He didn't think I was ready. You're a good colleague. It was, it was, it was a dream to car or not.

But that's a really nice car. She's not that she was making a lot of money. And I borrowed her car one day and this is fucking beat up. Toyota Prius. And I was driving into the car and I was like,

You're not fine with it. Don't say that. I was and then he was like, you can't have this. We're doing too well for you to be driving this car. It's going to cap your.

So much about you which car you drive. I did not go up like that at all. So it didn't. But all to say, I love my car. And I love drive.

“And I can hear her coming to the gate when she goes to her house across the street.”

And you really mean that you get the joy now if I understand what it does to you internally. Not the speed, unfortunately. But it doesn't mean that you're identity. It does.

It does. You refuse. It's muscularity and it's. It doesn't confident. It says something about it.

It's a signal. Yeah. I think it's more than a signal. Because I give you the counter argument. I live in Monaco, which is really superficial.

And everybody drives super cars. So what do I drive? A 1972 pagoda. I buck the train. Everyone trying to outdo each other.

Yeah. I get my pagoda with a lift on it. It's like from the 1970s. So you kind of like bounce along. Yeah.

But I love that I'm not trying it. These are also on a 300SL on I see. Yeah. I'll give you that. I'll give you that.

You also get some of your cars. The name says Mercedes in the world. That's your dream car funding enough. I know Antonio said he was going to give me a ride. Yeah.

That was like come to Monaco. Come to Monaco. Come to Monaco. Come to Monaco. Come to Monaco.

Come to Monaco. I will. Now that you enter cars. Come to Monaco. Come to Monaco.

Come to Monaco. Come to Monaco. Okay. So you get this call. We got to get two Williams. But you have a long road to Williams.

Well, the DTM years. Everything hung on that taste. I got myself out to Barcelona. And one story will appreciate. I arrived at the track.

And the Germans are very direct. So I got my seat fit. And they're like, OK. And then we'll do it one by one. But I see.

Yeah. Can I just do a lap of the track? Like I lap of the track. You don't know this track. It's like no.

I never driven Barcelona before.

And they kind of looked at me. And then Gerhard Unger kind of said. Okay. Meca. Come over here.

Come over here. I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track.

And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track.

And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going to go back to the track.

Then I'm going to go back to the track.

And then I'm going to go back to the track.

“And then I'm going to go back to the track.”

And then I'm going to go back to the track. And then I'm going back to the track. And then I'm going back to the track. And then I'm going back to the track. And then I'm going back to the track.