Taron Egerton

I'm Jack Shepherd and I'm joined by Lily Patman.

- Hi. - This is Pop Out, Pop Out episode of the Year for me. Last year, it was Alexander Skarskard. - Mm-hmm. - This was a equal level Pop Out.

Terran Ederton. - Oh, my, my, wait, this whole room was-- - We couldn't-- - In kind of shambles afterwards. - Yeah, he put us in a cramp. - Yeah, under his back.

- But it fell on us. - Pop. I'm so excited for everyone to hear this. I really want them to watch it. - Me too.

- Because he's so fucking cute. - Oh, and so smart and interesting. - Hyper intelligent. - He's great. - I don't even know what he's acting at me.

He's got a fucking, he's got it all. Terran, of course, was in Kingsman,

the Secret Service, my favorite action movie.

Rocket Man, to an impeccable job, as Ellen John. Blackbird, testament of youth, carry on, and his movie out now on Netflix that I imagine. Most people have watched by now 'cause it's so good. - Apex.

Check that out, prepare to be charmed, Terran Ederton. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Oh, it's the same to you. - What's up, dear?

Good to meet you. - Thank you so much for having me. - Oh, yeah, delighted to have you. - Yeah, thank you. - All right, thank you.

- All right, so nice to meet you. - All right, thank you. - Happy to have you. - Oh, well, thank you for allowing me to reschedule after I. - Of course.

- Thank you for saying schedule. (laughing) - It's already all working out. - Of the many charming things about the accent.

“I think schedule's really high on my list.”

- Thanks so much, I'm glad I'm winning a proof already. - Do you say, oh, it's my friend, Jeff Throw, the one that really gets me. Oh, do you say controversy or controversy? - I don't know.

I think I code switch depending on how I'm with. - 'Cause controversy is more like posture. - It might be a bit more post. - Yeah. - It might be when I'm trying to sound area-dite and impressive.

- Yeah. - Which is normally on a podcast. (laughing) - Don't do it here. - I love your Range Rover, it's very sexy.

It's very tight in a industry. (laughing) - Thank you. - Thank you, it's making up some sort of deficit in my sense of self somewhere.

- Oh, you should look in my garage. You'll see the holes or it's with the bees. - Yeah, yeah. - For me and I bet it's the same for you. But it's a very specific thing.

It was when I was a kid, BMX bikes were everything. I was BMX bikes. You had to have a hutch or a GT. And I had a f*cking mongos, which is fine, but it's not what I wanted and I coveted it so much.

And then I wanted a dirt bike. Boys had dirt bikes, I didn't have them. So all of this bullshit is healing. - I think it is that. And I don't think that's just to get out of jail free card.

I haven't really scrutinized why I have a Range Rover, but it's aspirational.

“I think it makes me feel like I've done good.”

- Yes, and I think when you grow up broke, you like covet these things. - 'Cause there's so out of your room. - How'd you know that broke? - I know about you.

- Well, as yet, the world's only rich social worker mother, single mother, and... - Oh, wow, you have done so much. - Let's do me, that's not the case. - I'm gonna say it was probably a modest up brand.

- It was a pretty modest up brand. - You started in England, yeah? - I did. Well, I was raised in Wales. - But up to two year in England by Liverpool, yeah?

- This is exactly right. - So you're just across the body of water from Wales? - That's right.

- Okay, and first and foremost, I wanna know

because I've heard you state it. You're Welsh through and through. - Do you feel that way? - So tell us the distinction between being an Englishman and a Welshman.

We've had the great pleasure of interviewing - Matthew Rees. - Matthew Rees. - Matthew? - Matthew? - And then also... - Still any other Welsh person?

- Oh, Anthony Hopkins. - Anthony Hopkins. - Yes, I saw that episode. - But what is the distinction? - I guess it depends on who you are. For me, I suppose it means

being a little bit of an underdog. So Wales is a lot smaller than the UK than England rather. - The thing that springs to mind is that I suppose England is based on a mixture of different people

who've come to that country at various different times over hundreds and thousands of years. Whereas Wales is a little more ancient. - We have a word called 'Hirice' in Wales for which there is no English equivalent.

And it kind of means a longing for the land.

“And I think that relationship with place country...”

- There's a loyalty there. - Yeah, and a sense that you are one, that you are one with the land that you're a part of the land and that is something. You're from it, that you're from it.

- Yeah, yeah. - You're the red of book called 'Anum Carre' by John O'Donnell here.

It's spiritual wisdom from the Celtic world.

And that book talks a lot about man and his relationship. But particularly through the Prism of Ireland, people from that country's relationship with the land and how it informs his spiritual identity.

“And I think, although we may not have quite the same”

international literary heritage of Ireland, I think we still have that same cultural connection with where we're from. - Maybe a nice healthy chip on your shoulder too. - Yes, a little bit of underdog syndrome.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Should I say it, little brother? - No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no. - I would argue it's the opposite.

- How could it be the opposite? - 'Cause little brother, and he's like, "Hey, I'm like you pick me, I'm just like you. I'm old enough, wanting to belong." This is like, fuck you.

- Yeah. - Right. - Little brother too, wanting to be out of here. - Little brother, we gotta have a whole new little brother energy. - They just have, they need their own identity very badly, little brothers, in general.

Are you a little brother? - No, I was raised as a only child. - Okay, nice. - But my mother and my stepfather, when I left home, started again.

So, I have a 13 year old, and I'm an older brother. - Yes, 13 and 16 year old sisters. - You have a little sister. - Well, that's me. - You've sang with.

- Yes, probably. - You sang with a little brother. - Yeah, yeah. - There's nothing, I won't come out of five. The moment you got it.

- You gotta track everything. - Anyhow, so we're gonna get Range Rover's in Doomburg. - Fuck. - They're not free. - Yes, so you went with Mom, I guess,

they got divorced at two Mom and Dad? - Yes, so they weren't married. Happy, very young, 23 and 24.

“I think the right thing was on the wall,”

and my mother left when I was probably two, maybe '83, and she moved to, kind of pursue a new life. I think Wales and the North part of Wales has a bit of a romantic notion for people

from Liverpool, which is where my family are from, because it's like a very working class holiday destination. So people who went there as children to vacation, grow up and think, "That's where I'm gonna go." I'm gonna go and revisit this place I love as a child.

- In life will be like vacation. - It'll be exactly like some other place. - Yes, I think that regularly when I'm visiting in a place I like to go to, and I go like, "Oh yeah, I gotta live here."

And then I go like, "Yeah, you won't feel like this "if you live here, you're ruined it."

- Of course, there's a reason they say grass is always green.

- How long did Mom hold under the holidays? Spirit is both? - Well, she's still there! - Oh! She must have liked something about it.

She's still there in a slightly different part of Wales, place called Aberystwyth, which is where I kind of did my formative years, and I think she loves it. I think like anything you love, you have a love-hate relationship with it.

She hates the short days in winter and all the rain in wetness. - Yeah. Okay, it's different. To the 12, you're at the initial place, right?

You guys move, too. Also, it's say, "No, Dad ran out of bed and breakfast "and Liverpool. - I did, yeah." - How often were you seeing each other?

“What was that like distance you had to travel to see him?”

- So my father and I, when I was growing up, were able to maintain a fairly kind of functional relationship. As I got older, that became more difficult, and I haven't spoken to him for a number of years now. - Okay, yes, I noticed when you closed your eyes,

it's a similar way at the periods of my life. I would have had to tell you about my father. - It's hard. - Yeah, my parents got divorced when I was three. He was a good-time man.

He used a fucking habit. Corvette and did Coke, he used car sales man. He was living a very exciting life, and we had a lot of ebs and flows. The father's something's really complicated.

I think you're not constantly in close proximity. I think that compounds an already tricky relationship. - Yeah, I mean, I'm reluctant to talk in too much detail about him because he's living his own life

and doing his own thing, and I always love him.

I do love him. I just don't think we work very well in terms of our relationship. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And so there was a point where I pushed the ejector seat

and haven't seen the sense. - My father died in 2012, but I think when I now notice as whereas before, I knew about all the hurt, I was experiencing, and I think now from this vantage point, I'm like,

"Yeah, we had a just a unique gift to hurt each other." - Yes. I think we were very similar, more than I ever wondered, me, and I think the way we got injured and the way we protected ourselves

was just like a match made in hell for the most part. - Generally speaking, I find that I am happier and more functional when I try and view everybody else's just trying their best, and with some people that's really challenging.

Well, I don't find that challenging with my father. I think he's a guy who wanted to be a good dad. - Yeah, it's fucking 23. - It's 23, you do to if you gave me a kiss it. - What do you think?

- I mean, my kisses would be right now to Antonio as a shitty man. - A hundred percent. I mean, I feel like maybe I started to grow up about 18 months ago, and I'm already 13 years older

than he was when he had me. - Yeah. - But it sounds like you had a bit of a night deal at two through 12 in this place. It's a 59 letter.

- Yeah.

- Oh, wow, I've heard you all do it.

- Well, I wasn't even gonna ask you because I know it's triggering, but yeah. - No, it's become a bit of a party piece. - But like, I maybe have gone over myself. (speaking in foreign language)

- Is where I, you gotta get a slice of your two at once 'cause I didn't get to the worst. (speaking in foreign language)

“- I mean, look, it's a name that is, I think,”

contrived to create the reaction. - And generate tourists. - Interest. - Wow. - I read a British GQ interview with you from probably,

I don't know, it's probably rock at me, I'm impressed. - And the actual magazine said, he won't say it, and it's too many letters for us to even cry. - It's been, he said it's 59 letter to all. - Wait, hold on, hold on, I miss the very beginning.

So it's thinking about dads. So wait, what is that? - That's the town they moved to and, - Well, it's a village, more. - Well, people say, where do you live here?

- People live here, I don't say that. - You can shoot in it to very much. - Oh, Mike. - I mean, it's your first grade to four. There's just teaching all the kids in town

how to pronounce the fucking town. Maybe five through eight learning to spell it. - Yeah, and I was a kid coming from England. - Yeah, yeah. - There's no time to speak the language at that point,

so it was a little bit. - Wow, that's impressive. - But you got on well there, right? You had a lot of friends. - Yeah, I was okay at that stage.

In hindsight, I think maybe being raised by a single mom who was pursuing a degree and trying to make ends meet through the midst of time looking back.

“I think I was possibly a little more anxious”

than I maybe thought I was aware of and to quite recently, because I think I'm a fairly empathic. Guy, single parent, single child relationship, and I think I probably picked up on a little bit of food. - Of course.

- But she was quite mom, you know,

I never felt that I wanted anything

or missed anything. - Would you're the only other person in the house? - Yes. - She's your parent, of course, you're gonna pick up. - Yeah, definitely got a bit of that man of the house.

I'm trying to take care of everyone, things, superman thing, which sounds like an advertisement of virtue, but it's no, it's a thing that I'm working on. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, I want to report, I want to pause this all to report.

I'm a super fan of Kingsman. - Oh, cool. - I've spent hours on here, defending number two. I'm gonna call you an argument, I'll hit you with later. - Okay.

- But what I want to say to the listener, who's not with you in person, you're a way cuter, even in person. (laughing) You know, we go one way or another, us actors.

It's like we're either not as good looking as we are on camera or better, and I'm shocked to report, you're even better looking in person. - And you're very handsome on screen as well. - Yeah, that's me unless you bug.

- I find myself moved by your handsomeness. (laughing) He tried, if you love me, thank you. - Thank you.

“- Are you being moved at all or are you feeling some movement?”

- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - I mean, I thought it was all gonna be over when that happened. - Yeah, I know, it was just working for you. - When did Stepdad enter the picture, what age were you? - Full seen.

- Okay, so that's post move at 12. - Yes. - And things hit the skits there when we move. Yeah, it's a little rough. - Yeah, that's right.

So I moved at 12. It seems to me that around that age of pre-teen is when people are a bit in danger of abandoning themselves anyway. And we moved from one school to another.

My grandmother was in the process of dying. We were being there to be near her. I just felt a bit lost in a line. And when you feel lost in a line, I think it's really hard to be out with looking

and forge those connections with people to make your face change. - We don't even know what you're selling them. You're like, you're grasping at what I did. I'm gonna pitch to do. I start with the fact that I like the who.

Do I tell them I'm into this? - Yeah, exactly. - How does it work in the UK? Like for us, you know, it goes, kind of go on through fifth grade.

So that's one chunk, your six years and once. - Yeah, yeah. - And then you're in a middle school. - Yeah, right. - And then you go to high school.

So where is 12 there? - So between 11 and 12, depending on what time of year you're born, you go to week old at secondary school. People probably do call it high school now,

but traditionally it would be called secondary school. - I guess what I'm trying to figure out is where you also bracketing up. - Yes, so I'd done a year in secondary school in the north of Wales.

- Which is already hard. That's a hard year. - That was a rough year for sure. That was a rough year. - And then you move.

- Yeah, I had this horrendous experience where the day where we went to that secondary school, you know, where they give you like a taste a day, where you go and meet other kids from other kids. - It's been very interesting.

- It's been very interesting. - These two boys whose names I can still remember, who I went with people, I can still remember the names. They just saw me. They saw me.

- They saw me fresh me and they went for me.

And that was the first year.

So it was rough. - They marked you. - They marked me. - Oh, they marked me. - We're going to ride this guy like a rendered me all

for the rest. - That's right. They saw me for the little feminine masking in our subpoiler. - That was so awesome.

- Yeah. - What was your size relative to the boys' age? - I was very small, very small. - Always very small. My voice didn't break until I was 16.

- It was rough.

- None of the girls protected you. - No. - I mean, no. - I was like a shot. - I was like funny years.

- Yeah, that works for the girls. - No, I had a rough first year. - So then we moved to Wales after that because of my grandmother being sick. It was a couple of years before I was sort of able

to find my feet and find my tribe, my people. - Was there ever a common principle of the two on name gentlemen? Just life for them? - No, I mean, I'm not mad at that.

- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I don't know.

I never heard from them again.

- When was your gross spurt? - I kind of cool up a little bit. I think about 16, 17. I never felt short again. But I've never felt tall either, you know?

- Well, yeah. - Yeah. - It read out a quote where you said, "I lost all my friends I had as a child when I moved.

It was quite cocky and quite confident. But that was to mask the insecurity I was feeling."

“- That's why anyone's cocky and confident.”

- It's hard to know that though when you're a kid. - I didn't ever see through that. - Yeah. - I was just like, why is this guy struggling around like this? - I think it was on the mark, well, it was no extremity

of tragedy or anything difficult in my life. I just think growing up's hard. - Yeah. - And it was rough there for a minute. - I think I was also a bright kid

and I had a really powerful imagination. And if not an understanding of adult things, I could see grown-ups doing adult things and I wanted to understand what those dynamics were. So I felt like I may be stepped outside

of the world being a child at the time when things got difficult. It was just rough with a couple of years. - Yeah, I think it's hard to escape if you're raised by a single mother as I was.

You're out in the world. - You become aware of how dudes are looking at your mom, how people are talking to your mom. - That role you sometimes subconsciously know is supposed to be being filled

by someone else to protect her. Is now on your shoulders. - Yeah. - And I think it starts down the road of hypervigilance a bit. - I think it gives you a specific relationship

with your sense of your own masculinity as well.

- Oh, because my mother is and there's always been

“an attractive woman and I can remember that.”

- Yeah. - As a boy, oh yeah. - And I can remember the feelings of rage and I can remember the feelings of inadequacy and I can remember not knowing what to do with all of that

and probably also wanting her to be looking at many more than them than you know what I was like. - Of course. - Well, and often single mothers I'm not saying yours was, but also there's a blurry line between child and partner.

Like you are filling in some gaps. - Yes. - Because they don't have anyone there to share their day with. You take on a role that is a little more complex than otherwise, I think.

I remember my mom has big boobs. Then my mom would occasionally wear like fucking white tank top. And I just remember like, oh, fuck man. We're going in the grocery store.

She's in the white tank top. It's gonna be like weird dudes that just start talking to her. And they just like, I hate it. - I hate it. - I think kids should have to think about it.

- No, I think that's maybe that's right. - I know, but you're in this position. - Yeah, I'm not gonna say anything to my mom. Oh, fuck my mom, you're wearing the shirt. - I'm gonna sweater on.

- We're gonna be dealing with all kinds of heat here. It's an interesting experience. And then I don't know about you, but for me, I mean, absence of a dad going like, good job, little tiger.

You're on the road to masculinity. Mine was just like, okay, what are the boys? All gonna acknowledge as masculine. - Yes. - And I did all of it, but it's all peer-driven.

There's no wisdom in the backs. - Yeah, you can't get up as they go. - I didn't follow that brows. And I still now, I think, when I'm asked about tropey masculine things,

I gotta go, shit. I'm gonna be found out. - Oh. - And so rather than pursue what you're talking about, which is that pushing,

I think I sort of slightly fell into being a bit introvert for a couple of years there. Whereas I'm naturally somebody who's quite expressive and out, we're looking, I think. - Well, it's one of these we both have.

Mine's driven by the fact that no one's confirming, I'm masculine. - As I get this deep and secure in,

“that's what I found out I relate to deeply.”

- Despite doing all the things. - Yeah, yeah. On some level, I still feel that now. - Particularly, I feel it in my romantic relationships and things, it can be hard to...

But we're getting real deep in. - Yeah, that's what we're doing. - Yeah.

- You were right to cancel the first time.

(laughing) - I did wanna ask though about the character of cockiness and confidence. - Yeah. - Because again, there's so many ways

to evaluate your life. It's like, oh, boo, who this, but it's like, well, that's a skill, my hunch is that's a skill that ends up being applied to exit. Like, that's exit, he's trying.

And you've already practiced it. - 100% and don't mistake me for a second because I was aware of that when you talk about yourself and you talk about your negative experiences,

I think in the cynical world we live in, there can be an assumption that you think that your lot was tougher than anybody else's. - Yeah.

- Oh, thank you. - Yeah, I'm not giving that off. - No, no, no, no, no, no. - I'm a victim, I thought-- - I am one of the luckiest people on the planet and my upbringing was amazing

and it was always a love filled and great people.

But I am also interested in my fucked upness and I'm interested in how it contributes to who I am, the artist I want to be, the work I want to make.

“- Yeah, you have to be because as you age,”

you start becoming aware of these patterns you're in and these cycles and then you're required to come up with an explanation. - Yes. - So it's like, I don't think it's self-indulgence. It's actually a pursuit of like transcending

these fucking patterns you want to break. - Yeah, I think that's right. - And I don't think it's boo-hoo. It's explanations, not excuses, not pity party. - No, and I'm also very interested in all of the bits

of myself that I have a natural aversion to. The bits of myself that I'm scared of, the bits of myself that if you were theorized enough, you would call shadow, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've done a lot of work in recent years in terms of like five or six years ago. There is no way out of coming here with a shaved head, owning who I am. I was still too scared.

I was still too worried about my currency as a leading man. I was still too worried about being rejected by women and all of those things. But I've found that work in terms of actively engaging with the parts of myself that I don't naturally

“feel that great about and aggressively loving them”

for a better phrase, has been quite transformative in my life. - Do you know Phil starts? I mean, do you know of him? - So Barry Michaels is my shrink. - Are they colleagues?

- Yes, they're co-writers. - Oh, okay, so look around your shoulder, they see that little drying. - That's true. - That's true for us. - I didn't know he'd been on the show.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So, okay. - So about four years ago, I was in the morning, I was making a movie called Carry On and I was sat in my apartment,

- Right there. - Clicking through Netflix, thank you. And I saw a documentary called Starts, The Joner Hill. - The Joner Hill, my movie.

- And I love Joner Hill and I thought there was something that looked interesting and different about it. And I put it on and something about it really spoke to me. Something about him really spoke to me

and something about Joner Hill's candor and vulnerability and willingness

“to put all of his baggage for one of the better word”

from center. And I still don't know why, but I text my lawyer of all people. I watched up my lawyer. (laughing)

I don't know why I did this. - Your concierge lawyer? (laughing) - When it's a table, I don't know why it's a concierge. - It was so weird.

He's somebody that I have a friendship with, but I'm not in the habit of sending him what I sent him, which was a quote from the movie saying, how extraordinary is this as a sound, but he sent me a message back immediately,

saying, "Fill starts his practice partner is my shrink." And I could see if he will see you. (laughing) And what started was a relationship with Barry Michaels, who he co-wrote the tools with

and he co-wrote coming alive with and Barry change my life. - For me, it's the most poignant, beautiful moment of the documentary. They show this picture of Joner that is virtually his shadow, right?

It's everything he thinks is bad about his, he has little him and he's overweight and all these things. And Phil says, "He wants you to take him along and let him experience this with you."

And that fucking touch me in a way, nothing ever has, or I was like, "This kid, I'm trying to hide, man." He deserves to come to the party. And I gotta be proud of him. - Yeah.

- And I just found that very powerful. Is that one of the moments? - I find it moving even as you're saying, and it's been at the core of all the work I've done over the past few years.

It really has changed my life in so many ways.

And I don't always succeed,

but I really try and bring that incredibly awkward, high-pitched voice, kid with hair over his eye, shrubby overweight. You know, this year I realized that I round my shoulders

'cause I'm still hiding the way I carried on my chest when I was like 15. - Yeah. - Yeah, wow, it's like muscle memory. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So in reality.

- Bad kind of muscle memory. - Bad muscle memory. But there's also something really thrilling and exciting and then makes you feel very whole about learning things about yourself.

And, you know, I don't know that everyone benefits from that kind of wisdom, and it's such a gift. And it's been an amazing thing for me. - You also have to know the things in order to say, I don't need that anymore.

That's not serving many more. - Totally. - But if you don't know them, if you're not doing the work to know like, oh, wow, I round my shoulders in it's because of this, if you don't know it, then you can't get pat,

you'll never get pat. - Yeah, fix it, yeah.

- That moment you talk about in that doc

it's so fucking hard to love that person. It takes a lot of work.

“It doesn't just go, okay, I'm gonna love that person now,”

and it's like a process of attrition. Because to begin with, if I don't manage the relationship with myself well enough, that part of myself makes me feel ill. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

- It robs you of everything in the present. - Yeah, Barry, I don't think he would mind me saying, he also at this stage in his life has quite pronounced health problems. Here's Louie Body dementia and watching the dignity

and courage with which he's dealt with that adversity has been the single most inspiring effecting thing that I've ever been near to in my life, and it really does put everything in perspective. And I know that a big way that he's achieved that

is through the shadow work that he prescribes. - Yeah. - Yeah, you're watching him use these tools. - Yeah. - So you're like that work and they work. - Exactly. - Yeah, yeah, that's wild. I wanna meet him.

- You should, she's an amazing man. - Yeah, okay, so you kinda get into acting right to make friends, is that true? - Yeah, that little Nadia to use a grand deos word, but that little period of time where I was a bit lost.

I became aware of other people doing drama.

And I think I always had that swagger

that you mentioned masking stuff, but that really started to appeal to me. Took me a while, but when I was 15, I joined a UCita. Look, I used to be really reluctant

to talk about myself as an artist. And I've completely lost that because acting is the thing that I love most and I do consider it to be a craft and one that I will never really understand.

And I love it, but tracing back to that moment when I first had a taste of it.

“I remember as being a real inflection point in my life”

for us like this makes sense. The something large about this. The tip again with sure was about a bit of attention seeking and probably was about making friends that fit in my tribe, but over the ensuing 21, 22 years.

It's the thing that's the most important to me.

And so it's there that you sit in. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare, we are supported by all state. Checking all state first could save you hundreds on car insurance.

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insurance company, North Brook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club incorporated in all state affiliate. Well, you probably tried on a few different identities by that point.

And you have some like purchase on them. You're kind of convincing them that round. But when you actually find the thread that is the thing, you know in your heart, oh, wow, yeah. This is the thing I'm going to build my whole life

around in my kind of identity. It's very powerful. Totally. When I did that first play, you were wearing a cocktail dress, right? I have your summer night stream.

Yeah, I've told this story too much, but it was a real moment. And it look, it makes for a great late night moment telling this story of, I basically had to step out on stage and address and I had to so much anxiety, you know, body consciousness and all this stuff and my voice

hadn't broken. And it's just all felt like there's a make a break moment, you know, I'm going to make a break moment. And I stepped out in this dress to adoring laughs and I just was like, thank God.

And my memory, my mind's eye, I sort of processed myself kind of looking around and hang on.

This is, you know, it was amazing.

And I've loved it ever since.

“Why have you been reluctant to talk about acting before?”

You just thought it was silly. You know, we're all a master contradictions. I think, particularly as a younger person, I did have a kind of cockiness and a swagger, but I also have a kind of classic British tall poppy

syndrome thing, which runs completely in the face of it, where I sort of both have wanted to be the centre of attention, but then I'm also embarrassed about it. So you're right. - Yeah, you brids have really figured out how to torture yourself.

- We should run. - We should run. - We're a good fucking awesome guy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I'd like to judge everyone else for their music days. - Yeah.

- The notion that the great British Empire would have tall poppy syndrome is already the most ironic.

- And the fucking country that they get over the world. It's good to have, maybe it's some residual guilt of that, like some might probably.

“So you get into the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art at what 17 or 18?”

- It was a bit old, it was 19. - Okay, 19. - Alright, 'cause you didn't get in and then had to wait a year. - I did a round of auditions, no joy.

And experience what was probably one of my first real,

like little ego deaths, and had a little moment to reflect and the second jar got him. - My guess would be like, you were pretty hot shit in school and you get kind of humbled dramatically by not getting in it. - It wasn't then I was hot shit.

I don't remember feeling like I was ever in a league about anybody else that I was doing, acting with or drama with, but I think I had in general the sort of slightly cavalier attitude of invincibility to things at that age that I think walking into an audition room

where they probably want a sense of somebody being serious about the craft and growing up and mature. I probably read as being a bit, whatever. - Yeah, yeah. - And so they put me in my place a little bit, I think.

- So in between school and Kingsman, you're on a TV show, you do a little bit of work. - Yeah. - But obviously, this Kingsman thing. - That was insane.

“- Yeah, this happens once every five years.”

- A new actor gets in a mega worldwide hit. It's overnight. - I presume you had an agent at the time. - I did. - And they called and said you're gonna go read

for this thing. - Yeah, I was in Hogan in London and I was filming a TV show called The Smoke, which is about firefighters in London. And I can remember the street corner I was on. We were filming in an old art building

which had been repurposed as this fire station. I was on the end of a street and I had got this email through about something that was called Huntsman. And a Huntsman and some. And I wasn't sent the script, those sent two sides,

but it was a scene in a pub with Harry Hart calling first

and one other also with that character. I read those two scenes. I was struck by a certainty, I was just new. Like this is my part. - Wow.

- I've had that one other time actually, but much many, many years later, but I remember it as kind of clicking into a mode and it feeling like, you know, like when you're, I don't know, preparing for some live event

or creative pursuit and you feel like you're drawn into a kind of inexorable bit of momentum and you can't get off the ride and all of your being is childhoods, this one thing.

“That's what I felt like about that test.”

I didn't know anything about who was involved. I just knew that it really zined off the page. Even at that age, I was 23. Went along to one of other studios leaves

then which is where the Funderla Harry Potter movie

is and they were setting up to do the movie. And I somehow got a recording, a taping, with Matthew Vaughan in the room. I don't know how I managed to get there. Here I 45 minutes late and I was nervous,

but I was also possessed by something. And I read for him and I remember he didn't look at me once during the audition, which I can remember feeling furious about. - Yeah.

- And that probably manifested somewhere in that attitude that character has. And yeah, that started a process of several weeks of auditions where I got to read the full script. Learned that Samuel Jackson, Colin Firth,

and Michael Kane were attached. It was mad really, it was a really mad time. - Do you think your brain compartmentalized in a helpful way where you were able to ignore the stakes of that?

- My own experience has been that my relationship with stakes has shifted as I've gotten older. Someone recently sent me a video of me singing without and I don't recognize the guy who did it. I'm like, wow, how did I do that?

- Yeah. - But at the time, I was like, this is a movie I want to see. And that's the best feeling when you're an actor auditioning for something

or hoping to be a part of something is like, if you feel like you're making something that you yourself would want to go to the movies to see, that's absolutely correct. - Yeah.

- You know, that's the right reason to be somewhere. And that's what I felt. And Matt obviously liked me and we went through all of these various different tests and readings and I ended up getting the part.

It was insane. It was life-changing. And it's funny and in some ways it feels like last year. And in other ways, it was 13 years ago. - Yeah.

- Wow. - Matt he Von has said some interesting things about cast and you won't be, he liked that this would be overwhelming for you. He liked that this was too big of an opportunity for you

because that is exactly what XE was going through. It was a street kid with a fucked up family. And now he's in the elite of the elite world of privilege and money and espionage, all the stuff. So that was like a quality he thought he could mine for it.

- No one outside of our industry wants to hear

- No one wants to. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And so I'm not gonna say it's hard to make a movie, but that was one of the more challenging creative. - Yeah.

- Isn't it great to have that as your first?

'Cause then for the rest of your career, you're like, oh, it's not that hard to finish off. - Yeah, yeah. - Wow. - Even this last one?

- Tied. - No, no. - No, no. - Are you kidding me? - No, no.

- Sad. - I've got equal billing to Charleston. (laughing) - Yeah, I was a rock on the pot. (laughing)

- No, that was a tough job.

“- Matt's, I think he's softened a little bit over the years,”

but at that stage, he was still pretty old school. You know, he's coming out of that gyroachie 90s. I would flatten myself that I might have had an effect on him over the years. So I'm softer than he used to be.

But at that time, it was like, this is what you're doing. This is what you need to do, and this is how it's gonna be. And it was tough.

- What I'll get is kind of great 'cause what Exie's going through is exceedingly tough. - Life is tough, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Life's light and shade.

And that's one of the things that Barry actually is, you'll know this from talking to Phil Stutz and the tools, the idea that pain and negative experiences are something that grow if you back away from them. And the more that you move towards them

and attack them, the smaller and more manageable they get. It's an absolute truth and time and time again. It's the thing, you know, they're most obvious pedestrian one is, I don't feel like going and doing hot mat palatis this morning.

I wanna lie here and drink coffee in bed, but you go and do it. It gets to the king to open when you leave, you know? - Yeah. - I do think it's an absolute truth.

And you're exactly right, Max, my experience of making Kingsman at the time was overwhelming. - Yeah, yeah. - It was the best training ground

'cause nothing has been anywhere near as difficult since the year, yeah, yeah. And also the thing that I might experience about it, that is one of the things that's harder to explain is the thing about acting,

is that it eludes you most of the time. It's not like you show up and you do the thing and you're fucking great in it all the time. - Yeah, exactly. - I'm shitted it most of the time.

Now the filmmaker, if they're any good, make sure that they pick the bits where you're really good. So you look like you're good, but you've spent 90% of your working day being fucking frustrated and annoyed with yourself because you can't achieve that thing,

the flow thing where you're like, oh, I'm cooking here, I know what I'm doing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's hard for a number of reasons, but I love it. I probably love it for those reasons. Because it does elude you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now in the movie, Colin Firth is very much your mentor. And I was curious, do you have the disposition where you can't evaluate yourself to mentorship? 'Cause like if I were you when I was in that situation,

I probably would have missed a great opportunity to be mentored by him. - No, Colin was amazing.

“I remember I was going to be difficult to tell my broker”

with my first girlfriend and I was really aggressively partying to deal with it. And was coming in in a bad way. And you know, though I remember there were a couple of days on Kingsman where Matt was like,

you're going to know I can't film you today. - Oh wow. - And Colin was amazing.

He was never anything other than kind of gentle

and fatherly and understanding. I actually found it in Reddit a couple of years ago because I'd never read it, but I remember him getting me a copy of Rilk 'cause let's us through a young poet,

which is an amazing collection of letters from Raynamaria Rilkah to a young aspiring writer who admires his work and I would recommend it to anybody. It's just the most beautiful advice for life. Colin bought me a beautiful addition of it at the time

that I did not have the fucking bandwidth to look at, but I was waiting for it on the shelf. And a couple of years ago, Reddit, and I was like man, this was an incredible act of generosity and he was always lovely to me.

And when he saw the movie, I was remembered he text me. He said, you want no perfect. - Oh wow. - He's a generous kind man. You know, one of the reasons I would like

to make another installment is because it would be fun to get to ride with Colin once more. - Yeah, yeah. Your performance is astonishing for first movie of that size and scale.

It's astonishing. - Yeah. - Yeah, I obviously didn't know clue who you were and the end of that was like, yeah. - Oh, I remember it was like, boom man.

I'm in, yeah, yeah. Do you learn some parkour? How good were they with the stunt doubles? - The way man. - No, okay.

- Yeah, that's Damien Walter's who's an incredible gymnast on man now, director, Greg Townley. There's a lot of people making me look very good in that movie.

“- How did the ego handle the enormous success of that?”

That's a pretty late switching moment.

- Honestly, I never felt like I had the moment of arrival.

If I completely candid, I was an incredible shape for that movie. If I think for the first time in my life, I felt really beautiful. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And it was completely intoxicating, and I was like, oh my God, I am ripped.

I've got this jaw, I got all this pain. I mean, the hair was starting to go, but I had another. And I felt invincible. And when we finished the movie, I just went, bang, the other way, and I gained so much weight.

And that really has been a feature of my adult life. In my 30s, I've kind of got a handle on it,

I never felt like, well now I can go out and enjoy this.

“- Yeah. - Because I didn't feel camera ready ever.”

- Yeah. - So I never felt like I really got that moment to be strutting around. - I never did. - Yeah. - And then again, I don't want to sound like what was me, that's just my path we all have our battles to fight,

but that was my own personal experience at my own success. I withdrew a little bit. I went, I bought a little place in my hometown. I would live there, I would then go away and film. I think in the face of that success,

my instinct was slightly to withdraw a little bit. - Do you think you'd do any self sabotage? 'Cause even when you said during filming and you were partying and like that's your huge opportunity. You know, it sounds like maybe there might have been a tiny bit

of, I don't deserve this, so I'm gonna do a little self sabotage. - Maybe, I don't know, I definitely was flagrant with the opportunity, with regards to what I would do on a Friday Saturday night. I'd be dialed during the week and then I would fucking go for it.

- I'm the weekend. - I mean, most of us do, but when you're in that position. - Oh, we could have had some real fun, if I could have time to travel. - I really relate to that, though,

never ever experiencing the moment of arrival.

“I remember watching American Idol one season,”

or I watched multiple seasons, but there's one time you're watching it. And I'm on the couch with my wife and once they make it to, I don't know, maybe it's the bottom three or whatever, the top three, they go back to their hometown

and they take a ride in a convertible. In the whole town, cheers for them, and they weep uncontrollably. 'Cause clearly they're experiencing it. I'm like, why have I never had that meal, yeah?

I don't feel like it ever happens in some way. - No, I don't know that that's really happening for them. - No, no, I mean, yeah. - That's the awful prison of those kind of shows. As you're being presented an idealized version of things

that does not fucking exist. - Yeah, you get your dreams and then you're filled with allation. And I was like, where's the allation? There were other ways that it was incredibly satisfying in life changing in terms of being able to buy a house

and do things for people to care about and experience an incredible uptick in lifestyle.

But I never had that thing where I felt like,

now on the guy I made it. - I'm the shit, yeah. - I have to ask one question about Tom Hardy 'cause I'm pretty obsessed with him.

“- What is it, they're about in the Europe's talent?”

- He's so talented. - Yeah. - There's just these scenes in peaky minders that it's just so next level. They'll have the dialogue. They will have the upper hand.

They will be delivering this thing. And he has a presence where you go, man, they don't have the upper hand. - He can't not have. Like there's something in transit about him.

Talk about masculinity and my session with masculinity. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - To embody all these things that if I were just like him, it would have been an easy ride.

So I think it's very much fantasy. - Yeah, I think that's right. - But I also admire, I think in my moments of insecurity, my instinct is to go bigger. Try to command control through volume and dominance.

And I guess I'm intrigued by his opposite approach almost always to what you think is going to command that. So I find that fascinating. In the end, I'm just intrigued by what's really how I don't know. I'm so curious about that dude.

But at any rate, you worked with them right after that, yeah. - I did. Was he already kind of legendaries? - Yeah. - Yes, he was.

- He was, yeah. - And were you intimidated at all? - No, I wasn't. I thought a lot about that time because he is intimidating. - He's also playing the craze, right?

- He was playing the craze. - I had a kind of slightly odd angle to Tom because we were depicting a bunch of guys in a hyper masculine world, playing gangsters. But I was playing his lover, Ronnie Cray's lover.

So my job was kind of to subvert all. And Brian Helgeland who directed it was very open to as improvising and trying things out, which Tom loved and I kind of grabbed that ball by both horns as well. I have all of my insecurities and all of my fears,

but one thing I'm not worried about is I believe in myself as an actor. - Yeah, yeah. - And so I think in that environment, I felt really excited to work with him.

- Yeah. - Because he's this unpredictable, he's a heavyweight. He's a heavyweight. And as anyone knows, you're only as good

really as the person you're opposite. And it's a dance and he was someone I was really excited to dance with. And he and I got on really well. - And your character I would argue,

if you're his lover, you are the person in his life that doesn't think he's so intimidating that you're afraid to get into him. - Yeah, exactly. - So it's almost like we've acquired on you,

it's a me and that mindset of that, to not be fearful of him or he wouldn't trust him. - There's a scene it never made the movie, but I was so pleased with myself. There was a scene where he murdered someone

and get back in the car and I was sat in the back

And I grabbed his face and I snogged him. And it wasn't in the script. (laughing) I can remember backing off from him thinking, right? (laughing)

- How will those land here? - I think he loved it. - Yeah.

“- I think I think, I have not seen it for 10 years,”

but at the time I think he quite liked my Hutspa. - Yeah, that's ball. - Yeah. - Okay, so obviously the thing I'm most curious about after that is seeing,

had you been singing, where is the singing come from? - Seeing is a big thing in Wales. So I did quiet stuff in school, loved singing, my real father's musical and so that probably had an effect as well.

I think I was introduced to music very young,

there was always music being played.

'Cause I auditioned for that. It was in 2015, I think I got the audition through. And I did know all the people involved and it was incredibly illustrious cast. And I went along and sang,

I think I sang these arms and mine, I sang Oates' Reading and ignored what, got after the last meter, the director of the options he'd sent. I got the part and it's been a really lovely thing to be a part of the such good movies, I think.

- Can say that when you're voicing in something because you're really so little to do with it. - Yeah, you know, yeah, you have a very interesting relationship with it, just like you don't even feel like you're in the movie. - That's right.

- You know they made a movie for two years, but you certainly weren't a part of that. So it's almost like disorienting when you hear yourself in the anime. - Yeah, don't that's right, I'm in those.

- Yeah, you feel like an ambassador for the movie.

“- I think you'd be able to actually be in the movie.”

- Yeah, it is, it's really interesting. - I only want to talk about Golden Circle. I'm just gonna give you my defense of the movie. - Go for it. - I was on a tirade monocle, remember.

- Yes, we saw it together. - You did, yeah, it's the movie to sit together. - We did with our friend Jess and Daxfield popcorn everyone is a huge deal. It was for a hit fall.

- Had a huge fall on popcorn whenever we're at the beginning of the movie. - I had a commonly large portion of popcorn too. - It was like a couple of gallons. - How did you respond to the fool?

- He died laughing. - Before I even hit the ground, I was laughing at how ridiculous that looked because I threw like a 30-unstrength in the 90s about to keep the end of the movie.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - We were at 120 frames. This would be so enjoyable to watch this fall for about three minutes, 'cause it's spectacular. And it's in front of all these people

and I've landed on a greasy popcorn, you know. - It's famous, you know, there's like that going on. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is perfect. - This is bad as it can go. - I kind of loved it weirdly.

- But anyway, I read some reviews in my anger was simply this. I compared it to automotive journalism. Most writers at Car and Driver in Road and Track, they don't want to own a Honda Accord.

They didn't get into writing about cars because they love Honda Accords. But they have some integrity will have the like knowledge. Hey, all these things go 300,000 miles. The fit and finish is off the charts.

You know, you'll get a review that they understand why that is a great fucking car, whether they like it or not. And my frustration often with reviews of movies is like, if it's not your type of movie,

but you cannot discount the master class of directing that's on display. - Like you have to acknowledge, if you know anything about movies, what went into that movie?

- Yeah, and how well it was executed. You know, there's a physical product. You must acknowledge it. You can then go on to say, it's not my cup of tea or something,

since a humor or whatever, but just the full disregard of this thing. And ignoring how much skill was on display and acting talent was on display in great music. I'm like, there's no integrity

that this whole review thing. - It's a tough one, isn't it? Because as an actor, it almost feels taboo to acknowledge any kind of relationship

with critical evaluation and review, right?

“It's like you should pretend it's not happening.”

And of course, how many of us are successful at that? - Exactly. - Even if you ignore it, it'll get to you. - Yes, it'll get to you. The movie I just made is the first experience I've had

where I got through it without coming to the temptation and reading them. It's the first time I'm in my entire career and I've done that. - Yeah, yeah.

- I didn't read one. Look, I share your frustration and the thing that has been my experience of it that I think is quite specific to my time, is I feel like the integrity of it is compromised

by the means through which you consume the review. A fair balance to praise, love something coming from a place of good world. Does not make for good clickbait if you see us here? - So you have to understand

the myriad of complex motivations there are in writing something. Everybody's fallable, everybody's coming from their own subjective experience, everybody has an agenda.

- My best mate. - I can't remember what the movie was, but he worked with me for a time. He traveled with me and worked with me as an assistant. I'm thankful to say that our friendship survived it.

(laughing) I spoke to him on the way here,

but I always remember him saying to me once,

there was a movie that we were both interested to see and I said, "Bro, it's got shit reviews." And he went, "I'm fucking care." - Yeah, yeah. - And then my own mind up.

He didn't say even with that bit of vim and vigor that I said it. He didn't say it to prove a point.

- It's not fun, okay? I'll just on my mind. - Yeah. - And I thought, wow. - What a statement of integrity.

- Yeah.

“- And I think that that is something that I've tried to...”

- Practice. - Well and repeat to myself, at the times where because we all slip into the mode of thinking that external affirmation validation is gonna be the thing that makes us whole

and actually never is it's turning to yourself.

And go, well, how do I actually fucking feel about this? - And I think I just can't imagine, maybe I can imagine. - I just think the desire to eviscerate something is an impulse that is worthy of scrutinizing.

- Yeah, it's a wine, wine. - Sure, this is a pithy bit of writing. And yeah, you've managed to completely undress this thing, a large group of people who've spent a couple years making,

but I don't know how much real value it has. - Yeah, and I think it contributes to this issue we're having in this country definitely right now. It's like, if you like this, you're stupid. You don't get it.

And it's like, oh, I guess I shouldn't like that it's creating this division between intelligent people and not intelligent people, or like classy people and not,

and it's like, this is not good for us. - Yeah, yeah. - Such a problem.

And these critical pieces are not helping.

I think it's just in a lot of it. - I've never thought of it that way, I don't agree. - Things are made for different reasons for different people at different times. And I'm a different person today

to who I was yesterday and I'll be a different person again next week. And yes, sometimes I have the kind of bookish film, makeily appetite to watch something brilliant that was made in 1972

by someone that I should have watched. And sometimes I want to watch a kind of goofy, eddy Murphy movie made in the Northease because I want to just decompress them. - Yes, it's all valid.

- Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think the thing that's going on, I totally agree with you Monica, is like, I think because of the political identities got so massive over the last decade

that that now is the muscle memory of like, oh, I got to declare my identity all the time and I declare it that thing. And I had the situation where I had watched Justin Bieber singing at Coachella

just him on stage in a microphone. And I was so blown away by it and moved by it. We're all hanging out and someone's like, oh yeah, he didn't even fucking do anything. He made $10 million and he's like,

Sabrina Carbon had this whole thing this whole takedown of him, which by the way, I had seen simmering online. And I was like, yeah, I just don't know how you could watch that

and not feel the authentic power. That's exactly why it rocks. 'Cause it's stripped back and it's him being honest. And she goes, I haven't seen it 'cause it was only live, blah, blah, blah, blah.

“And I was like, yeah, that's what happened.”

The silo she's in had declared that as a money grab and this and that. And she hadn't seen it, but her tribe that was the synthesis and I don't blame her, I do the same thing. But I was like, yeah, that's kind of what happens

a lot of times. They're chamber declared a verdict. You've gotta go along with it 'cause that's your tribe and it's all about the tribe. - I think that's not idea if declaring an identity

in some respect it can be a really powerful thing, certainly for traditionally marginalised groups of people and I totally get the power and the importance of that. But I think that on a different level, the idea of declaring anything about oneself

has been fixed and absolute is sort of preposterous. And I hear myself do it sometimes, I go, I'm not really that kind of guy, I'm not a kind of guy who does this. And I hear myself and go, fuck it, it's all about me.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You're narrative and you're writing about yourself, 'cause you're better along, like you're a mess of cells in a swirling chaos. We're trying to derive security from something.

- Yes. - Some are coming in. - I am this, I am this fixed, yeah, it's bulletin. - It makes us feel safer. - Yeah, it feels like you've anchored into bedrock.

But all you've anchored into is something that's not going to change and evolve as the context should demand that you change and evolve to. - Exactly, exactly.

“- I think, and by the way, I love capitalism.”

- You've benefited well from it. - Yes, and I think it brings the tech and it's a crazy overall starvation rates and for more tech. Like I think it's the best system we got.

So I'm not critical, really, of capitalism.

With that said, I think what's fascinating about capitalism is like, how long will it take before people themselves are a product? And that was a kind of an unimaginable scenario until there's meaning because you literally have a billboard.

And on the billboard, you know, 'cause you've watched every other product, the product declares what it does, and what it doesn't do. And how it's opposite of that. Those advertisements or advertisements

are declarations of what the thing is. And so we have just modeled our now presenting image online. - Yeah. - As a product, so we got to declare what we are and what we're not.

And it's all very fixed and ridiculous. But I think we've become products in some way. - I mean, well, none of us know who we are, or what we're doing. - We're doing it.

- We're doing it. - And we're moving forward and we're all having many existential crises several times a day. And these are huge questions that are way above my pay grade, but I know that for my own self,

I'm kind of excited by my own capacity to change and be different from one moment to the next. And I think there's tremendous power in not allowing yourself to be too fixed or brittle

- Okay, a lot of funny suspicious things along the way that add up to things where you could get suspicious or an SM. I would argue, you know, Elton John being a cameo in the Kingsman and then you having to sing for sing,

really adds up quickly to you being a rocket man. - Yeah, I wish I'd read Actual Young, but I haven't, but you know, he talks a lot about synchronicity and that is one that kind of came up for me. I auditioned for drama school, singing Alton as well.

- Oh, Dean, when I was 18. - Anything else than singing? - And I sing Alton and sing. - It's suspicious. - It is suspicious.

- Well, you ever let yourself go down a fun effort for a fantasy about the suspicion? Like, "Ah, there may be all charm to magic dust for dinner."

“- I think I like to back it to the ideas of certainty”

and rigidity. I like to remind myself that my perception of the world is entirely fallible because my eyes are my eyes. And actually, who knows what forces are at play in the universe?

I saw the Tony Hopkins episode and when I first met him,

he told me about his fascination with young's ideas around synchronicity and how the song "Procola Harrums" followed him around and he feels that there's significance and meaning to it. I like the idea that there are things

that play in the universe that we don't fully understand. And I think I used to be somebody who had a very kind of staunchly atheistic, quite certain view of things that were quite stark and quite kale-striving. And I don't feel that way anymore.

I don't know what's going on. - Yeah, there's a freedom to that. - Yes, and I also feel that when I believe in a benevolent universe, the universe gets more benevolent. - That's right. - Yes, when all of us humans,

it's a very well-established bias confirmation bias. Once you have a theory, you only see things that confirm your theory and you exclude all other evidence. If you want the real view of the world, you almost have to let go of any fucking theory

because you'll miss everything else that doesn't confirm that theory. - Yeah. - God, we're cutting so deep right now. - I don't know, I don't know. - But it should be in a philosophy class.

- Well, it should be in our curriculum. - Anyways, Rocky Man, I know that the Kings and we're harder, but Rocky Man is the biggest swing you may be ever taking in your life. - I don't have the balls for that.

- Even if I could sing-- - Really? - No.

“- You know, I think it didn't feel like that at the time.”

- 'Cause can you recognize now? It's like a fucking swingin' for the fences, not to drop a baseball metaphor on you, I mean, yeah. - Yeah.

- What do you want to say? - I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. - Absent Father for the-- - No, there was something to do about the fact that it had a musical component

and it was about somebody incredibly dysfunctional. A lot of the dysfunction, I related to, in terms of who he was, it just felt like a chance to express me. - I'm really proud of that movie

and I always will be and I am proud

that people who like Elton John, like me in that movie, but I only have a really felt like I was expressing me. I was playing Alton John, but I also just felt like I was going, I'm going to use Alton John to slightly express something about who I am.

- Yeah. - Alton John was like the outfit you put on. - Yeah, that's right. - He encouraged you to not do an impersonation, right? He said, "Go for you."

Is that liberating? - Yes, absolutely. - And he's a brilliant creative person. And I think he understands the in order to do something.

“Well, you have to feel the degree of ownership and ownership.”

Nobody's going at any point, Alton John would have turned his head that way in 1981 because he was doing this or wearing that hat. It's like who gives a fuck. The point is that we're trying to capture the spirit of who somebody is by recognizing commonality

between myself and him. And it was a totally beautiful experience. He's still somebody that I care about enormously.

And I will always, always be thankful for it.

And I could not be more proud of the film. I love making it. It was just awesome. It's a mega accomplishment. It's crazy.

- Thank you. (upbeat music) - Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. (upbeat music)

- We're gonna skip everything else 'cause I've taken so much of your time. We're gonna go to Apex. I watched Apex and my mother was in town visiting. She and I watched it together.

- She hates it. - No, but I've never... The scene her having experienced in a movie like this. It was thrilling. I was so distracted by her.

She's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, that's where this is. This might be too much. Oh, oh, oh, that's just to get her off the cliff. Why is she gonna, oh, oh, here he is.

You know, like, she, yeah, this is a role. Yes, for Rosal said when the fucking 30 I loved it. Right on the gates again, I'm sure you don't know this about me, but I fucking love men's bodies more than anything in the world. Really, you're in very good shape.

I love muscles so much. Yeah, what is it about it, do you think? Well, for me, I'll explain it as like being born in 75.

Right, right, right.

I was just like, wait a minute, a man can look like a gorilla.

And then Stallone was at his height. It was like the birth of muscles.

“It's worth being wary of that, though, I think.”

Because that version of me in apex, the guys, whatever city body fat I was and all kind of, you know, strong. Every day, I punish myself for not looking like that. But the truth of the matter is that I stopped myself. Exactly, you'll find miserable.

And I was running myself absolutely ragged to get there. And Barry once told me, and it's such a great sound bite. But the idealized version of your, look, I don't want to get too heavy. You need to talk about yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He once said to me that the idealized version of yourself, the kind of hero version of yourself, your job is not to aspire to it. Your job is to smash it. Oh, wow.

And I love that. I spent a great, a tremendous help to me. It's one of the things that has a challenge that nobody wants to hear about. But fluctuating relationship with your own images and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like that. That's universe.

Yeah, absolutely. I'll hit you with my current understanding of my fascination. One is just, I grew up in a house with a violent step there, beating everyone up. Right.

So when I saw Conan, I was like, oh, if I look like that, I got no problems for the rest of my life. So that was like, yeah, fuck if I was Conan, I got no problems. Mom can wear her fucking tight tank top all she wants, you know, yeah.

“Second, and I think this is the true thing that intrigues me about muscles.”

Is it's rare that you can see a visual display of someone's work ethic and dedication. And as someone who the my shadow is your crazy piece of shit who's undisciplined you conquer that is to me the ultimate goal. I can see there's some dedication here. There's some execution.

There's like real commitment. There's struggle. This is the proof of making oneself suffer for a goal. Kind of forget the goal and all honesty at this point for me. I don't make myself miserable.

I in a way that like works for me that I'm not miserable at all. I work out all the time because I'm a nutcase and it's my medicine. And the esteem I get from knowing I did the thing I didn't want to do. This job. Yeah, I love that.

And I feel the same way.

I've always loved to move and I am a little bit of odds with the world.

If I'm not doing it, but it's complicated. And it's all tied up with food and all that shit, which we all struggle with. Yeah, it's toxic. The tiny moments in my life where I've looked like I did those shirtless things in a picture where there's show called Blackbird or in the first Kingsman or those days,

I just was filled with self-loathing. Yeah. I couldn't enjoy it because I'd completely lost any distorted sense of perspective. Also in ain't that deep, you bounce back, you carry on. It's fine.

It's just what it is.

“How about the attention you get from other men, too?”

Isn't that hysterical? What's the thing? Women do not give a phone note. No. We both know that.

Yeah. That's the established fact at this point. In fact, sometimes it's like, in the way you're saying it's apparent when you look at someone's body, it's like, God, they really come. Yeah.

I mean, it's not a piece. It's not. Oh, they, it reads as vanity. It can't. They don't know.

I'm on an internal battle for self-discipline. Sure. But you know what I do love. There was a slightly different type of training I did for that movie. It was much more functional than just getting pumped up.

And I felt so fit and fell amazing, you know, that just the joyous feeling of your body

is just primed. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What it can get to.

Yes. I used to have a picture on my wall. I was about 15 that I drew, because I used to love drawing. I drew that classic Arnie shape and would write, I will get to this shape in Max number of days.

I mean, I'd mount a chin up bar in my room and add no notion of how one achieves anything like that. Yeah. And it's crazy. You know, that kid to think that years later, I would potentially be the model

for another 15-year-old kid who was head, I'm fucking up by the beginning. Yeah. No, you're not realistic. It's a body type. No.

Do you know what I feel like it's a part of the job and it's fine? Yeah. I feel like during things like this, I do feel an impulse to say that it's a moment in time that you sweat for and you restrict the amount of food you eat for, it's getting body fat down.

And there's a lot of pain and while moving well and using your body is a prerequisite and it's important and we should all do it that doing tons of rigorous aesthetic driven work is a path that can fuck you up with that. Yeah. And I think there's a responsibility to say that sometimes.

And also, it's diminishing returns. Right now, I think it's nice to think I can run and I can move, but who knows, in 25 years, what is it going to be able to do and what I refuse to do is turn into the person who hates their form as they age and change, because the temptation is so there.

their own form and I want to enjoy what it can do right now and I wanted to stay malleable and functional for as long as possible, but I also want to accept it as it shifts over the coming years. And I want to love it when I'm 75 and it maybe doesn't do as much as you do. Yeah.

Yeah. I let you know if it's possible. On a bit further down the road, I'll tell you in the message back. Yeah. Is the Aussie accent that you have in there?

To me, it seems like you have a leg up on a monoconite trying it, although to you probably. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare.

I worked with an incredible dial coach named Felicity.

“I think Felicity's surname is begin to the J.”

I think it's Jude. Sorry, Felicity. Felicity, Jared is right. It is right. Yep.

Oh my god. Wow, this is an upper range of 23 people in the back. Jared's right now. That was awesome. That was awesome.

Impressed. We did a lot of work. It is just a really tough one. And people warn me before the studio. In fact, we're very like, we'd actually be happy if you did a British.

We would like you to be British. And I was like, well, that's not really what I want to do. But I remember I got a certain way into the process and it wasn't quite clicking in in the way that it has when I've done certain American dialects and things. Anyway, look, I think I got away with it.

It's a tough one. As a American watching, I feel like you nailed it. I haven't run it by any Aussie friends of mine, but I was like, oh, this is impressive. I taught to know where the people are lying to you, but I feel pretty good about it. The whole thing with an accent is so dicey in my opinion, because I remember doing a movie

and I can't even fucking remember what was said in and they got a dialect coach for me. And I started going down the path. And maybe I'm just a quitter, fearful, but I was like, this is making me way too self-conscious. I can't even think about what the scene's about. I'm thinking about where you showed me on the piece of paper.

I'm changing this vault of that file. And I'm like trying desperately to understand why I care in the scene or the other things. I had to make a call. Maybe I don't have the skill set. I was like, I can't prioritize that because it's going to take a toll on this other

thing. I care more about. But I think we're all different. We're all a different skill set. Yes.

Yes. You can see. There is no fucking way that I am ever getting up and doing stand up in front of everyone. I respect and see it for the extraordinary feat of artistry. It is.

And daring. There's no fucking way I'm ever doing it. I'm not interested. Yeah. I don't want to go down and die.

No, thank you.

“And also, I think, you know, growing up whilst there are some really interesting, diverse”

distinctions between dialects in America. I do think, generally, there is a more cohesive sense of self with regards to the way that people speak, whereas I'm from the UK. And I move from Liverpool to Wales. It sounds as different as South African does to American to mostly, you know.

So I think there's a fluidity that's baked into who I am that means that it doesn't feel that way to me.

To me, it feels like the first domino I'm knocking in a string of domino is that's

going to change other things and lead me to feel like I'm really somebody else. Yeah. So I did make a movie in the autumn where I made the conscious decision to not adopt any kind of difference in the way I speak and to play it as close to me as possible. So I felt like I hadn't done played a Brit for seven years.

So I didn't feel like I'd played anything near to me. And the first week I thought I was going to have to give up acting. Really? I was terrified. You had no artist so high.

I had no idea. I had no idea. I felt like I was exposed. I didn't feel there was something I could lean into. And it nearly fucked me up.

Wow. So it spins around. And I would be nervous to go back there. Yeah. I felt a little so raw.

So a little closer to high. It was a weird thing to experience. I didn't see it coming at all.

“And then underneath of all that, or at least maybe an aspect about, is it the fear?”

Like, well, I'm not interesting enough on my own. Maybe I definitely know that I want to feel like things that I do with this thinking from one another. And that's because I don't know, maybe some sort of lofty aspiration to feel like the people I most admire.

But I do genuinely enjoy it. And I feel that once I, like I just made a movie in Australia that's actually set in New York.

But the first time in my whole life, I say it in the accent the whole time, I've never

done that before. Oh, I've said, no, from arriving in the makeup bus to leaving at night. And what I found that in the car on the way home, I kind of struggled to shake it off, not because I felt like I was this guy in 1957. But because you get into a muscularity.

Yeah. It's like, you know, when you're acting out as a kid and you're like, can't stop the idea. It's like that. I agree what's so fun about doing something, for instance, I was in this movie, Idiocracy. It was a character.

You should do the growlings. And once I start talking like him, Friedo, I have completely different thoughts that that doesn't have. Yeah. It is.

It's so fun and interesting. Yeah. It's interesting as well because going back to that thing earlier, where we were talking about reviews and that sense of certainty about anything, there's so many different versions of me within me and I think it's true of all of us.

embracing your multitude of self.

Yeah. Yeah. You're not just this one. And maybe you're right. Maybe it is a self-love thing.

“Maybe actually I'm rejecting Tara a little bit, you know, like I quite like the idea of being”

able to aspire to be somebody else for a little while. The movie, we should explain it and it's been out for a minute. It's probably most people listening, oh, I've seen it, but in a nutshell, Charlize Throne is a woman who is in love with a man and that beginning opening scene is fucking bonkers.

I just kept trying to figure out the math of how they had filmed that so convincingly them sleeping. Yeah. That's how it is. Oh, my God.

It brought me back to that fucking climbing movie. We all saw. But her partner dies. She's on this kind of soul searching mission. She continues to be an outdoorsy person.

She's going to go down to Australian climb and kayak. Yeah, rediscover herself a bit. And she meets you at a gas station, right, and you're going to step in to protect her from some locals. You guys are a little fucking nowhere.

Yeah. Were you down there? We shot that. Just outside of Canberra. Where's that?

It's a city in Australia. Okay. It's kind of political seat of Australia. I think Canberra is the captain. I think.

I didn't know that. I didn't know that. It is. Rob said it is. Yeah.

Thank God. She's the great twice. Not as remote as it appears, like many of the locations, all of the locations in that movie. Yeah.

So I can't remember you playing a fucking evil human mean. Is this the first time? Yeah. I did a TV show last year called Smoke on Apple where I played somebody pretty wobbly.

But it's definitely a new chapter in my life. It's like a power. Yeah. I'm a total freak. And we meet you in your very kind and soft spoken, you're very appealing.

It looks like you're going to be probably a good deal. Yeah. A street hard. Yeah. And then we have some more interactions with you as she's on her trip.

And then the turn is one of the freakier turns I've ever seen. I do want to know a little bit about that moment.

We're basically starting to occur to her you're not a good dude.

And then you basically put on a song for her. Yeah. So creepy. Oh. And you start dancing it gets real creepy and I'm hurry.

“The scene was written that way like what's the fear level going into a scene like that?”

Well, massive. They were sent to me the fall of 2024. It was a slightly different version of the story. And the character originally was imagined as it felt like it was written for Chris Hemsworth's kind of like top-not beard, man of the woods, one with nature, leaf whisperer sort of vibe.

And I read it. I can't. This is not me. Yeah. They'd expressed desire to rewrite him.

So I said I'd be really interested in as finding a version of it where it's a guy who wants to do appear like that kind of guy because that feels more honest to who I am. And what started was a really remarkable process of like creativity and open discourse for a big studio movie and they were really open to ideas.

So one of the first things we discussed, I said look villain dancing in movies is not a revolutionary

idea, but I wouldn't it cool if he kind of declared the beginning of this hunt and we could find a cool song and they were open to it and what was birthed was that sequence. And I'd been searching high and low for a song and I was training over Zoom with my trainer here in LA and that chemical brothers track came on in the gym and so yeah, I asked the chemical brothers, I wrote to them and asked if we could use their track and they let

us use it. It was quite a thrilling thing to shoot. Well, basically can I just say it is a fundamental trick. If you had got there and they go, you're dancing to this song, yes, you would have found nine reasons why that's not a fix, but it's your idea and you had to live with it.

Exactly right. And also as much as I'm playing a sociopathic cannibalistic nut job, that guy dancing is just me at a festival at 21, just me, the chemical brothers in 2010, you know.

“So me bringing something of myself to it is what I think makes it extra weird because”

people are going, oh my god, this feels really real. Yeah. And it means real because it is me, I can feel that he is feeling the song. Yes, yes. Yes.

The song really is the song. Yeah. Yeah. I'll put it in a two-way tie with, was it Buffalo Bill and silence of the way? Well, I don't know how to put it in.

Well, I don't know how to put it in. I don't know how to put it in. You were a dude there. No, I went like, oh, walked in. This guy's even weirder than I was in.

Yeah, I mean, that's your Buffalo Bill. No, no, no. I'm very honored to say that I have a sort of like pen-power relationship with Anthony Hopkins and I asked him before doing the movie for advice about playing a really fun

Yeah. How you got to go to the, the source, yes. He said something like he said I don't know where Lector came from, probably something in my childhood. But he said the only advice I would give you and I don't need to tell you this, but the

only advice I would give you is don't play the evil. Play him as the hero of his story. I really took that advice forward with me and yeah, it's a great time. Parts like that where the rules are a little bit malleable and you get to do something where you're being a license to be as strange as possible.

So freeing. Yeah. How fun. I had a great time. Charlize is just a bad mother fucker in this.

And honestly, I know that people say this when they're promoting movies, but the movie's been out, we're, you know, we're, we're here friends. Yeah. I mean, she is a force in H. Talk about grit. She really went there and I think it's kind of what makes the movie work.

She trained for so many months as a climber and has taken it on as a hobby. You know, were you saying about me really digging that song? Yeah. That was her with the climate. Yeah.

“And I think that's what it takes to make it feel really real.”

Oh my God. Did you get to keep those crazy teeth? No, I didn't keep those actually. I hadn't shown them to anyone the day we filmed. I had them designed here in LA, and I had them shipped over independently of production.

Oh. Oh, no. No one had seen them when I did it on set.

So Charlize's reaction is really legit because I think you could plan the most incredible

scare in your real life. If like you just having a wonderful evening with somebody and then you go into the kitchen to grab a couple more things and you come back and resume talking and you just don't do a thing. Yeah.

You're so fucking scared. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're missing out on a real cookie.

It's not as good as the Pride's Made's Actors with a little bit of chocolate cake on the idea. That's so good. That's a great one. Last thing I'm going to say is I'm now following you on Instagram, which was new once

we started doing research a while back. I just really enjoyed you dancing, and I want to know about the decision to do so much public dancing, which I applaud. I too have a video of me dancing. So it's a big swing.

Yeah, it's a big swing. It's a big swing. I think it's the shallow thing.

“For my entire 20s, I thought that what I should be aiming at, what I was supposed to be,”

choose your fighter, those guys to epitomize the Hollywood Leaning Man, and what I have found in my 30s to use rough parameters is that I am much happier when I am not trying to be the guy. The man. And I get it.

Hollywood celebrates the man. And there's a reason. You know, there's a reason Tom Hardy's the man, and it's cool. We like those guys. We like those guys.

Now, like those guys. But it's not my path and it's not who I am. And I suppose me doing stupid dancing on Instagram feels like a statement of intent about me going, "Actually, I'm this guy." Yeah.

And I'm okay with that. And I like my weird. And I like my shadow. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful.

I've been charmed on this show. We've done 1200 episodes, but I'm putting you on the top ten of char. I am so charmed by you.

I thought when I couldn't make it the first time I felt pretty wrong about it.

So I'm glad we go to Disney. Yeah. I mean, too. This is a blast. Thank you.

I'm so rooting for you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And everyone wants Apex.

It's fucking stellar.

“Watch it with your mom and just see what happens to her.”

Physiologically, cardiobascularly, check her heart rate. Oh. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Be well, brother. Thank you. You too. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks.

I just really shit the bed myself on my time management. Oh, OK. I had gone on my workout gear on. I was like, should I write my bike today?

Yeah, always a big question.

Big big question. And I was like, I still really need to change this rear end or two. The nozzle kind of popped off so holding air, but I can't risk it. OK. No, I'm going to need to repair it.

And then this lift, we're going to lift. Got in my outfit. Then I went to, I thought, well, now I have a little extra time. I got to work in on the bicycle.

I get the tires. We're more challenging than there's a lot of challenges. So when I finally got it all done, cleaned up the tools. There else go workout. I looked at my watch, 1240.

My entire workout had blown by. Yeah. Yeah. That'll happen. Got away from me.

That'll happen. You get tinkering in the shop. You know, as guys get tinkering in the shop and the time is flies by. Blur right by. Oh, my.

This cookie boy likes the tinker. Yeah. Cookie boys do like to tinker. Little tinker. Your morning was good.

The time get away from you. My internet was out at the beginning of the morning. Wow. Unacceptable. I know.

And I got a text from 18T saying so, but I thought it was spam. Sure. Or a trick. I thought it was a trick and a way to for them to take all my money.

This isn't just out with the exact same thing.

“She's starting to get tons and tons of emails and texts from Spectrum.”

Like you're going to shut your cable off. Okay. Should off your internet. Sure. And she's like, I don't even think that I signed up for the account.

I don't think I. It's in my name or anything. Mm-hmm. Now there's a big mystery. There's a huge mystery.

And it's so very similar. But she's the whole time. She's like, this is all a toy to get my credit card. Got to be careful. I think they got it.

They did. I think so.

You're never supposed to click on it.

Well, she looked up the actual web address for Spectrum and it was the right web. Oh, you don't click on it. Still scary. So scary. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I didn't click on it and I was wrong. They were, that was real. That was real. And the internet was out.

And uh, but then it came back. That was wonderful. Then it came back. But I do this, right? I like plan.

I plan my morning or my getting ready to the minute, which is a problem. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm a busy girl. Yes.

Very busy. I'm going to go out to fit in there. But then the make up, okay, that's going to take seven minutes and then it takes seven and a half. And then you add a half minute to each of these line items and your late.

Line items. Yeah. Yeah. You, you're P&L and you realize more losses than profit. And I realize, it's not good.

It's not good. It's not good. I hate all those terms, then I want to say learn to my realized they really are useful. I know. The annoying and then I'm the person I hate.

You, you're the, you've become the person you've always hated.

It's almost my full arc as you can just be coming fully the person I hated. Um, I did a good prank last night. Oh my god. Tell me because I'm into prank now. Okay.

As you know, my girlfriend, Khaleesi's visiting. Yes. You're a little baby friend. She's seven, Kenny's daughter. I told you about the hike.

We had a great hike. We held hands the entire time. I'd love to show you some pictures. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

She calls Kristen your wife and Kristen. My wife and Kristen. Obviously, Kristen. Dax's mom. Dax's mom, which is really sad, but I did discover after we talked.

She is calling my sister, Delta's grandma. She's great.

“She kept saying, is Delta gone to her grandma to the movies?”

When she's going to be done with her grandma at the movies. So now, T.T. is grandma. Oh, so far. Oh, my god.

I'm scared for her to give me an A.

At least it's consistent. So like, if, if Kristen's my mom and my sister is Delta's grandma, those are their peers, which they are. Of course. In this weird structure.

These are calling me, Dax, what about your Indian friend? Oh, no. Yeah. No. She's not going to do that.

It's more of an age mix-up. So we went to Linkin, Kristen, Kenny, and I went to Cafe 101 last thing. Okay. We're in a big booth. Kleezy's so excited.

There's older girls. Yeah. The older girls have had enough. But I tell them, I tried to tell them, you know, if we went somewhere and there's two older girls.

You know, it's really tough being a parent in these situations. I know. Because you're really kind of weighing a couple of things. Yeah. I'm teaching to be kind and civil, and also they're in their house.

Yeah. They have some boundaries. I also want them to have boundaries. I don't know. I know.

“I think I may have made a mistake on this front.”

Okay. Did you advise them to? Well. Punch, Kleezy. I did.

Okay. No, I told Delta the other day I did a pop out. I pop out here. I rocked by and I decided to go pop into my house and I was walking by your friends. Oh, yeah.

I heard you grunt. I was unloading motorcycles and power washing them and I heard your little voice coming from like the woods. I said, hi, and you kind of like jerked around. This is why I'm into pranks now, actually because it was actually very funny because

you got really stupid. Well, and you were obscured behind fikers, like a hedge, a row of hedges. So you got to watch me react and look stupid for a while. Yeah, I was really funny. Come on.

God damn it. Who's saying hi? Yeah. You got into that mode where you were scared. Protect my family.

Yeah. And I said, it's Monica. I'm here. I'm over here by the fence. I'm on a good year.

You're a friend. I'm over here by the fence. So then yeah, you came over and then Delta came over and said, we were chitchatting a lot. And yes, she mentioned that there was going to be a young girl in Kleezy so friendly.

She wants to talk. She's cute. You. You're friendly. I want to get a new was anticipating being, you know, a little overwhelmed.

And then, but really her eyeer was towards Lincoln. Oh, okay. She's like the Lincoln shuts the door and then I have to just play by myself with her.

And then I do.

And I just, I don't want to do that this time.

And I said, well, that's good. That's boundaries. You can. So I taught her. You saw a little Kleezy excited to play with them.

You mean, like girls get over her play with a few little girl. So you know, Lincoln's largely spared because of the age gap.

“I think Delta's more interesting to clear.”

Yeah. Anyways, all this is say we're at dinner and I love talking to her, because I'm just messing with her at the whole time. Exactly how I talked to Lincoln and Delta is there because she's family. She's Kenny's of course.

So she's um, Kenny says something. She doesn't like. So she starts punching. Kenny. Won't stop punching him.

Stop punching me. And I go, Kleezy, I'm going to tell you right now, they throw people out in this restaurant. They have a zero tolerance policy on violence. He's like, no, they won't and I go, no, they'll throw you right out of here. And what is great is I've developed.

Now I hit without this ever in sight, I've developed a really good relationship with the bus boy. Oh, nice. I love the dude. You know, we have a great report.

Mm-hmm. So I go, I'm, that's it. I'm going to get the manager. So I got up and then luckily, he was just staying right around the corner. And I go, oh, perfect.

Will you tell that? Ask that little girl. She's been punching people. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah. So we come back.

And now there's an employee of the restaurant. He goes, have you been punching people? And she, she was busted. Yeah. She was so scared.

She's going to get thrown out. Oh, no. And then we all started laughing. And then she started laughing. And it was great.

She laughed. Yeah. But I came back with an employee. And he got right into it. That is funny.

Oh, it was glorious. Oh, I just got mirror neurons, though, like, I'm back to not liking pranks anymore. Okay. It's your afraid of getting kicked out. Oh, my God.

I would have cried. And then I would have felt bad that I was crying because I, I would know everyone else felt bad. Yeah, yeah. But I wouldn't be able to help myself.

Yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot there. Right. But it did stop the punching.

Well, that's good. Okay. So the other thing she and I have going is we are in the hot tub tonight's gone. She's telling me all these different stories. And she tells me about how mean this gymnastics coaches.

And he's a real mean in one girl is going to have her water. And he said, oh, you want some water. And he poured the water on her head. No, she's a liar. Then I go, I'm going to be honest.

I don't believe that's story. She's like, what? Well, you mean you don't believe it. And I go, like, I trust you. And I love you.

But at the same time, I just, I really can't. I don't think I'm able to believe that story. And when he was holding about believing that story, and then later she told me, you know your eyes turn color when you lie. My grandpa told me that.

And I go, yeah, I love your grandpa, Joe. He's one of my buddies. But I, I, I'm afraid I can't believe that story. And she fought me on that for a while. But then in the car on the way to Cafe 101, she was saying, yeah, my grandpa told me

“your eyes turn color when you lie and I don't think I believe it anymore.”

No, you made her turn on her grandpa. That's okay. It's good to be skeptical. You can't believe in cherry tails. But the reason the grandpa said it is because she's a little liar.

And she's running around telling lies and the grandpa's basically saying, don't you do that?

I'll, I know. The dollar a liar. You don't need to make up a whole thing for her eyes. The little baby's lying. Yeah, you can tell kids exactly everything.

No, I'm so, you do, but not everyone does that. We are having a blast. Although don't they say that about hazel? It's like sometimes you're green, sometimes you're blue. Because sometimes you're in light that makes them look that way.

And sometimes you're in light that makes them look the other way. Very wishy. Wishy? Yeah. Transit.

It's a very, a femoral. That's right. It changes the mood, some more fists. Yeah. All to say your eyes don't turn a different color when you lie.

Okay. This is back to me really wishing I had green eyes since I learned they're the rarest. Yeah. You couldn't didn't already know they were the rarest. Did you need to learn that?

I already talked about this.

“I guess I kind of knew in my heart of hearts, but I think you just met the least amount”

of people with green eyes. That means I'll answer for you. Yes. Yes. You've met way more people with blue and brown eyes than green.

Brown. Yeah. Browns. Browns. Here we go around.

Also, I love browns. Don't listen to her. Daniel Ricardo's brown eyes. I know. Because Saddlewood.

I know.

It's just you always want what the grass is always green when your eyes are green.

Yeah. No. I brought what color your eyes brown? Blue. Wow.

See. I don't know. That was a dangerous question. Why? Because people take it so personal if you don't know their eyes.

Really? Oh, I hear this all the time. Is he one of these? I think trends about how to outgeys for another thing guys are terrible at is like guys don't know your eye color.

That's a test for guy.

What are your mom's eye color?

What's your wife's eye color? Eye color. Eye colors. Oh, my God. Yeah.

So it's dangerous. People get very hurt if you don't know what color their eyes are. Do you know what color am I? Blue. Yeah.

Because I know that. This whole time we're talking about it. Yeah.

“I think I sort of thought blue eyes were the rarest.”

Oh, wow. I don't know how you thought that. I, I like blue eyes the most. Name three people with green eyes. Okay.

Callie. She is green eyes. We plan it fast and lose. No. Okay.

There's solid green. I mean texture. Well, what's solid green? Is there such a thing? Callie might be mad because now we're back to the business.

Did you agree with her? She says I'm so hurt. Lose my number. Thanks. He has blue eyes.

She doesn't. Okay. She either has green or hazel. Okay. My friend Gina.

Green or hazel. Okay. You're asking me. No. I'm telling you.

These are two people. Okay. So we're up to two. All right. And you're currently sitting with two people.

Blue eyes. So that's already neutralized. Okay. So even. Even Steven.

With the media people in your vicinity and all the people in the world. You know, yes. It's even so far. And the kids have blue. Yeah.

See, I'm not paying much attention. Yeah. You know the kids have blue eyes. There's so prototypical blonde blue. I know.

But they're generic. I don't. I don't.

“You know, people's think eyes are like the window to the soul.”

Yeah. And I guess I get like when I look like in your eyes. Yeah. I get it. That's where the human is.

Right.

But I guess I'm never looking.

You can't see very well, though, in your defense. I don't know that you can even see most people's eyes. The eyes are like. Shit blue. I see that.

When you know I have brown eyes as someone sensitive. Um. Yeah. There's like grayish blue. Oh, yeah.

For sure. Yeah. I would agree with that. Yeah. Which is nice.

Just to set the nicest thing about my eyes. Is anyone is ever said? He said there's icicles in them. Oh. It's very sweet.

You know what color my brother's eyes are, right? But are his eyes. His eyes are probably green. No. They're red.

No. That's his hair. He has brown eyes. Go ahead, test it. You're a bad boyfriend.

I'm a much better boyfriend than you are. Color your eyes, question mark. This is going to start crying. I'll get back to you in a 30 minutes. Well, tonight's salt.

Exactly. What is it?

“You tell me you don't care about me without telling me.”

I don't care about me. Actually when I like all my all the girls in the pod, I'm really trying to think. Who's got what? I don't know.

Yeah. And the boys. I guess I hate eyes. Yeah. They're not your thing.

Okay. We have a really important thing to do. Oh. Oh, we're going to finally do the. It's a quiz.

From the book. Whoop up. The quasi. Oh, no. But we should.

Okay. Do it next week. For us saying we'll do it the following week. For the green. So what quiz is this?

Okay. This is highly sensitive person quiz. Oh, wonderful. Because it's a for blaze. Stay tuned for our share expert.

If you dare. Now. Do you want me to read it?

I feel like you're always administering the quizzes.

And I'm happy to do it if you want. I'd like to do it. Okay. Okay. Now discover your personality.

Choose your gender to start. Mal. Okay. You find it easy to make new friends. Strongly agree.

A great neutral disagree. Strongly disagree. Strongly agree. You could spend days learning about random things that interest you. Oh.

Strongly agree. When others are. You seem to have nothing to do with sensitivity. I'm centressing. When others are upset, you feel upset too.

Oh, yeah. I hate it. Which one agree or strongly? Strongly agree. You aren't one for backup plans.

Yeah. That's. I'm not going to go strongly. I'll go the next one. Okay.

You stay cool common collected even when under lots of stress. Yeah. Which one? Strongly agree. Right.

Have you ever seen me lose in my shit? Yeah. Oh. Oh my god. Yeah.

Oh, my god. Yeah. Wow. Really? Yes.

Oh, wow. Okay. Oh. I just think when the shit's hitting the fan. I'm very calm.

Is that not what the question is? You would agree with that. Oh, my. Yeah. My car's on fire.

And I'm like, okay. Let's get the hood open. Let's like, there's no. I have no. Oh, no.

There's no. Oh, no. Right. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. When out and about, you don't really introduce yourself to new people. You prefer to child people you already know. That's true.

Even though I can make friends really. Easy. That's true. Okay. But not strongly.

So rags. Let's go medium. Neutral or agree. Let's go neutral. Okay.

Yeah. Because part of your thing is that you like talking to strangers. It's really weird. I like to talk to either dead strangers. Or people I know.

It's periphery people that people I know know that make me nervous. I understand. Yeah. Can you understand that's weird, isn't it, though? But like, if I'm at a gas station, I talked like I'm very engaged.

Yeah. You want to learn about that? Or the server or whatever. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to ask the Uber driver where they're from. Right.

Yeah. But if like the Uber driver, I kind of remember his friends with Cali. I'd be like, oh, fuck. Oh, no. It's not a person.

I always find it so cool.

But you know, any friend of a friend. I know. It feels like.

“You need to be on in a little bit of a different way.”

Yeah. We're supposed to connect because we split it. Yeah. I get it. I'm like a no across the board.

I don't want to talk to strangers. Yeah. And I don't want my friends. I don't want my friends. Yeah.

Okay. You don't like to start a new project until the first ones finished. Mm-hmm. Well, agree. Okay.

You're a sentimental type of person. Yeah. Strongly agree. Okay. You enjoy using lists or schedules.

Okay. Okay. Making a small mistake can make you question your knowledge on a subject. Medium. Nutral or agree.

Medium agree. Is that just agree or? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

You easily spark up a conversation with a stranger. Oh, five. You love talking about an analyzing creative works. Four. You follow your heart more than your head.

That's an interesting one. Boy, that's. That's a hard one. What do you think? I'm not going to hear.

“You follow your heart more than your head.”

I kind of think so. I do too. I do too. Yeah. I feel agree.

Right. You tend to prefer following a daily routine as opposed to just doing whatever you want. Yeah. Love a daily routine. That's right.

Okay.

When you meet new people, you worry about whether you made a great first impression.

To five. Yeah. You prefer solo activities over group activities. Okay. You love watching movies that let you interrupt.

Oh. Oh. A little projection. No, I'm not projection just interject. Interrogate.

Interrogate. You put something. You. I wrote. What if I said?

Yeah. They started changing the quiz. Yeah. You loved to interrupt. What do you think?

Six. You love watching movies that let you interpret the ending yourself. Yeah. You get more happiness from achieving things yourself than you do from helping others. Yeah.

Terrible quality. But yeah. Strong.

“You aren't interested in very many things.”

You'll strongly disagree. You often worry about the worst possible scenario in any given situation. You love taking up leadership roles. Five. You are an artistic type of person.

Four. The world will be better off. People made more decisions with their feelings. No. The Civil War is only disagree.

Yeah. It's strongly disagree. Well, you work with your head. It's hard. I know.

But I'm allowed to know now. Okay. You both are going to relax before getting into chores. That's weird. Relax before getting into chores.

You don't. Yeah. So you're. I like to keep the motor floor or off. So that's a disagree.

Okay. You don't mind when other people are having a heated argument in front of you. Oh, this is interesting. Yeah. I don't mind.

I like, you know, I like it. So you. It's hard enough. Strongly agree. You like being the center of attention.

Oh, 15. Your move. It's like how gross you are, please. Your move is generally pretty stable. Yeah.

That's a four. You have plenty of patience for people that aren't as efficient as you. Zero. No. Strongly.

Yeah. It is agree. You're spontaneous.

You've always been fascinated by the question of what if anything happens after death.

Neutral. You prefer to be on your own rather than with others. Neutral. You love theoretical discussions and can engage in them for days on end. 15.

You have a hard time empathizing with people who come from a very different lifestyle to your own. Hmm. Interesting. Oh, you feel like you have a. What would you give me on that?

Yeah. You have a hard time averaging people who come from a very different. I don't remember where I'm from. I know. Yeah.

I love gay dudes. I'm going to say something. Ballsy right now. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Contrarianism than it does with your empathy. Wow. And I mean that positively. Wow.

You always want to look at the other side.

Yeah. Yeah.

“There was a status quo about people, and I think it was not empathy that drove you.”

But I have an outcast identity, right? So I think I like it's easy for me to walk into. I don't know. I'm going to go neutral. Okay.

I think I'm. I think I'm more empathetic than the average dog from where I'm from. Okay. But also, yeah, a lot of times. Like I had to definitely become friends with you before I was able to.

I'm truly understand how hurtful. And doing an accent. That's pretty shameful. No. I wouldn't use.

What's you? Me? I actually mean more like. I think currently you can't empathize with like a very hyper liberal person. And that is from where they come from too.

Well, I mean, let's see though. Is it that I can't empathize? I mean, I think I understand where they're coming from. I think it's going to end in defeat. Yeah.

So I have like a real strong objection that I don't think we're ever going to get my whole again. Yeah. And as people have a reckoning. So neutral. We're going neutral.

When there's a decision to be made, you want to make it right away. Yeah. Four or five. Five.

You tend to second guess the decisions you make.

No, I disagree. Socializing quickly exhaust you. Socializing quickly.

“If you start socializing, are you quickly exhausted?”

No, I'm energized strongly disagree. You enjoy going to art museums. No. Oh, my God. I went to one recently and it was act.

It was lovely. I went by myself. Oh, where? This one in Echo Park. Oh.

And I went to see this awesome artist. Her name's Sophie. I am already a fan of her as she had an exhibit there. I went and I got a coffee and I went by myself. And I felt so cultured.

And you really enjoyed looking at the paintings. I did. Yeah. But there was only like I was in and out pretty quick. Okay.

Well. I can remember the couple that I've loved. I love to go.

Go Picasso one in the alley in Barcelona.

And then the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. Mm. I like to get on the getty. But it's like I look at the paintings. I feel like Larry David from like, I'm more annoyed that other people are getting some transcendent experience that I might not be.

And I'm like, why? What is I see? Yeah. This is a ding ding ding for my other fact, which isn't a fact, but is flower poopy. The flower puppy outside the Guggenheim in Bilbao.

Yeah. Frank Geary designed building. I went there. Yeah. Yeah.

But came up in this episode. Oh, right. And I just, I went there with Cali and it was great. You loved it. I loved it.

Yeah. And I'd like to go back. Yeah. Okay. You struggled to understand what others are feeling.

No. But disagree. disagree. Okay. You like to have it to do list for each day.

Where are you answer this? No, I don't. I don't. Regs don't. Regs disagree.

You often feel insecure. I mean, what year is this question being? No. I'm rarely disagree. Yeah.

But. Regs. You prefer talking to people on the phone over texting or messaging them. I used to, but not anymore. disagree.

I go disagree. Regs. When someone has a different perspective on a subject than you, you genuinely try to understand where they're coming from. I go.

Regs agree. I think so.

“You find that telling the cold hard truth is more important than being tactful.”

Yeah. It was cute. You're happy to go with the flow when your plans are interrupted. No. I'm not at all.

That's a strong disagree. And the stakes you made in the past often hot your mind. Oh, five. You feel energized after spending time alone, engaging in solitary activities like reading or reflecting. Not energized.

No. Regs disagree. Okay. You prefer to rely on your instincts rather than sticking strictly to a set plan. Oh, five.

You often find yourself deeply contemplating the underlying meanings and implications. Of things rather than focusing solely on the surface details. Regs agree. I think. That's a neutral for me.

No. I think you're. Strongly agree. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. It's strongly. When making decisions, you prioritize logic and objective analysis over considering how it might impact others' feelings. I agree. You often.

I'm going to go on, right? This is a separate. It's a separate. I think we're there. You often find yourself worrying about potential future outcomes.

Or what could go wrong in a given situation? You often find yourself drawn to new experiences and enjoy exploring unfamiliar places.

You tend to trust your gut feelings at intuition when faced with difficult decisions rather than relying solely on logical analysis.

A neutral. Okay.

“You feel a strong sense of empathy towards others and are often affected by their emotions, even if they don't directly involve you.”

Well, I'm affected by people's emotions, but you said I'm not empathetic. So I'm going to take that. Let's go, Rags agree. Okay. You prefer to have a well structured plan on place rather than leaving things up to chance or improvisation.

This rags disagree. Okay. You thrive in dynamic, fast, peace environments and feel invigorated by challenging situations are quite a quick thinking and adaptability. Fifty-five. When faced with a problem, you're more inclined to seek out practical solutions rather than dwelling on abstract theories or hypothetical scenarios.

That's a hard one. That is, I will go neutral. Okay. You enjoy engaging in deep, meaningful conversations with others, yes. Sorry.

You often find yourself reflecting on past experiences and considering how they've shaped your beliefs and values. Too much. Oh, yeah. You're inclined to take charge in group settings, assuming leadership roles in guiding others. We already asked that.

It's a team. There's a big question.

Do you hate me and ask the same question twice?

Or rather, it would say you hate me and ask the same question. Oh, my God. Okay, you feel most comfortable when your environment is organized and structured and you may feel stress or unsettled in chaotic or unpredictable situations. I agree with that. It seems like a contradiction.

I know.

“But I, yes, I keep my room really clean and my side of the thing, you know, like I am.”

Yeah, more beautiful. You prefer spending time with the small group of close friends rather than attending large social gatherings. Yeah. Four or five. Five.

When presented with multiple options, you tend to follow your own. You tend to follow your heart and make decisions based on what feels right in the moment. They're trying to confuse us. But he's asking the same question. It was slightly different than you.

That's how all these are. And they're trying to catch you, meaning consistent and they're about to catch me one more time. When presented with multiple options, you tend to follow your heart and make decisions based on what feels right in the moment. Yeah, I agree with that.

Okay. You enjoy exploring new ideas and concepts often seeking out an opportunity. Okay. Yeah. You're trying to find it easy to do that.

The answer did this piss you off. And that's the only question that matters. Because you're so sensitive. You find it easy to adapt to changes in plans or unexpected situations. Braggs know.

Offencing them as opportunities for growth and learning. No. Okay. I mean, I get there after a long time. When working on a project, do value efficiency and strive to complete tasks quickly and effectively.

Yeah, five. You often seek out opportunities to challenge yourself and push your limits. Whether it's their physical activities or intellectual pursuits, strongly agree. You prefer to focus on the present moment rather than dwelling on past regrets or worrying about future and certainties. No.

Braggs disagree. You enjoy engaging in lively debates and discussions sharing your, yep. Okay. You have a strong desire for structure and order in your daily life feeling most cities when following a clear routine or schedule. This is crazy.

It's getting really crazy. You tend to be proactive in seeking out new experiences and opportunities and racing changes the natural part of life. I like new things, but I don't know that I embrace change all that well. So let's go neutral.

Okay. People energize and accept. My social interactions. Offencing out opportunities to meet new people. Because they didn't look.

Is it like, is there a glitch? No, but it is different. Off and seeking out opportunities to meet new people. I do do that. Let's go ranks.

Okay. When making decisions, you prioritize logical reasoning and objective analysis. Considering the facts and evidence before reaching a conclusion. I'd say four. Oh, four.

You tend to be highly self critical and introspective.

Frequently reflecting on your actions and decisions and striving for self improvement. Five. You often find yourself empathizing with others emotions. Even if you have an experience, the same situation yourself. And strive to offer support and understanding.

I'm not good at that. Let's go. Rags. Rags disagree. Yeah.

You prefer to have a clear plan and direction in life setting. Specific goals and working diligently to achieve them. Rags agree. Okay. What is your current relationship status?

Um. Merried. Yeah, but five. What is it? No, now it's.

Okay. Merried.

“How long is your current relationship six plus years?”

How many relationships have you been in? Oh, God. There's was zero one, two, three, four, four plus. Four plus. Four plus.

Oh, wow. How? This is personal. How long is your penis? God.

How satisfied are you with your current relationship. We have dissatisfied somewhat satisfied, mostly satisfied varies. Very satisfied. What's your age? Okay.

Oh, God. 500 is not even an option. Oh, my God. I'm too old to take this quiz. No, it's 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s.

And a ball. 60 plus. Oh, so I'm okay. This is weird to say 50s.

Right now.

And then the rest of everyone.

Okay. Now submit. I'm going to ask you for $2.99. Yes, sir. Oh, my.

These bastards. What the fuck? I have to pay it.

“I know because we filmed a whole segment.”

Oh, my God. What bastards? Yeah. I mean, it is blossom.co. Oh.

That's not confidence inducing. The sum of their questions were good. And repetitive. Some of their questions were great.

And then on the second time, they were good.

And then sometimes on the third time they were no good. You didn't love it. How much do I owe you for this? Was it $2.99? It was $1.99.

Are they going to give you unlimited tests? Oh, I, you can take more quizzes. Oh, good. Oh, that's fun. Okay.

Well, let's find it. Be my result. Show me. I'll show you next week. No.

Oh, fuck another paywall. No.

“This just isn't about this isn't having anything to do.”

You're an ENTJ. An ear nose and throat. Oh, no.

This wasn't even a highly sensitive person.

Oh, my God. Okay. That's what it is. It was like a, you know, those, they're, it's called something. And it's, it's a personality type.

Someone is wanted us to take this task. But we don't know about it. No, it's like an any-a-gram test. It is, but it's like a really common one. You're an EN or an INFG.

But it won't tell you the name of it. I think it's Myers-Briggs, maybe. Let's see. ENTJ. Dr. Sam Boney.

Stanford, president. It's Myers-Briggs. That's like the original ones. That's cool. Now you know.

What am I an ENT? You're an ENTJ. That's a confident leader. Okay. That tracks 76% extroversion.

Okay. I'd agree with that.

“Method of processing information 81% intuition.”

The ENTJs are intuitive thinkers, fascinated by possibilities, patterns, and future outcomes. Interesting. Okay. 55% thinking. That feels like not neutral.

That's a push. Well, because it's either, so it's introversion versus extroversion. That's the eye in the E. Intuition versus sensing. Okay.

That's a method of processing information in your intuition. Decision-making functioning is thinking or feeling. You're thinking about at 55%. Yeah. I'm on the fence.

And then management function is judging or perceiving, and you're 61% judging. Wow. What am I doing? We still don't know if you're highly sensitive. You're right.

Well, I've defined that task. And I'll do it when we do the-- They tricks me. Briggs and Stratton tests from your book. What was that called?

Myers-Briggs. No, from your book. - Oh yeah, green hats. - Green hats. - Oh, a mess of the facts.

- Oh. - All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right.

- That was it. - Oh, great, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right,