The End of The Bachelorette

No, not at all. I'm so sorry. You're so sorry.

You're all right? Yes, exactly. I'm so sorry that I'm just a part of the studio. I'm just a part of the studio or a part of the studio. I'm sorry. I'm not as sorry. I'm sorry. - You're right.

I'm sorry. (upbeat music) Welcome to Bachelor Party. I'm Julia Litman. I'm here at Cali Curry, and Rachel Lindsay. Rachel, welcome to the podcast.

Guys, thank you for welcoming me, and I'm so happy to be here with the three of you. The two of us, all three of us. Oh, the three of us. Three of us. Okay. So here's the deal. Cali and I take the whole tail of Randy Paul segment a few hours ago, but it was before some things happened. So we're scrapping it. We had this recording on the books because we three are going to be covering the season of the Bachelor at together.

Rachel was coming back to the franchise because of this Bachelor at. Yes. So we were just using our time that we're using right now to talk about episode one. So full disclosure, we've all seen episode one. However, things changed. Cali and I will talk about survivor and age of attraction at the end of this podcast. It's probably going to seem irrelevant in random, but we're going to run it anyway.

And at the meantime, we are here to talk about what's going on with Taylor Frankie Paul. And so last time Cali and I talked about her on Monday and things have drastically changed since then, and then the drastically changed again since this morning. Yeah, because this morning, CMZ released the video that was used in Taylor's court case in 2023 when it was her first aggravated assault conviction for assault against Dakota. It is sort of like the culmination of this week's drip of news about their relationship.

The other major news as come out this week is that season five of Mormon lives is on hold because the women were refusing to tape with her and didn't want to film with her until things were settled. And there's a new dispute, a new case being investigated about both on both sides of Taylor having assaulted Dakota and Dakota having assault to Taylor.

“I think also Utah child and family services is involved.”

And the video that came out, well, that TMZ posted a Rachel noted when you're chatting that it's technically been part of the official record, but it was never like disseminated via the media.

TMZ posted this 2023 video of Taylor jumping on Dakota and then throwing three metal shields at him. They canceled it. They didn't. I'm sorry. Oh my god.

I'm sorry. There was a TMZ reporting it. She just said it to me. Oh my god. And she said, guys, why do I have chills?

The Bachelor at Taylor Frankie Paul's season canceled. TMZ has learned ABC is pulling the plug on Taylor Frankie Paul's season of the Bachelor at. A midfresh claims of domestic abuse and the 2023 video of her fighting with her baby daddy. Yeah.

“So in the video, I think also crucially the fighting is terrible, but also one of the school's hits Taylor's daughter who at the time was five.”

And then you hear her crying. It's a horrible video to watch. This is a huge deal. This is a huge huge, huge, huge deal. I want to note the Bachelor at has not been on TV since 2024.

I don't know where the feather franchise moves forward. Rachel, I want to get your reaction.

I just think first, I just want to say.

Taylor, everything Taylor's done. She really needs help. Like it's it's very clear. Yeah. That's sort of number one.

And we don't condone any corrections.

“I think it's a more nuanced net than though as well.”

So we'll get into it. But first Rachel, who former Bachelor at? What's your reaction to the fall on cancellation? Okay. This is fresh.

I literally, we all just found out. Yes, it's news. I just got the text message and it's reported by TMZ. Like it's happening. A Disney spokesperson has already put out a statement.

You know, before we hopped on this podcast, we were talking about will they won't they? Will they won't they? And even on higher learning when I was trying to catch fan up, he was like, there's no way they'll do it if they've already shot it. Yeah.

Because there's so much money involved, not just what it looks like for Disney. But what it just, the of time, the money, all the people who work on the show, all just like all of it, right? But one, okay, I'm trying to think of like the ways to talk about it.

When this is today. This is fluid.

We'll work on it together today.

It's funny. We saw the video. Right. So I send it immediately to you.

“I'm here in New York and I'm like, look at this video five minutes before.”

I'm about to get on to record higher learning. And I said, it's over. Yeah. That's that was my thing. I sent it to you in Cali.

And I'm like, it's over. That was, there's the right way under any brand, particularly Disney that you can proceed when this video comes out. And then it, it makes me go back to. There was a lot of outrage when she was cast.

Yeah. I have to get on to myself for this for this. When she was cast, of course, like, we responded. I was. We were bigger.

The three of us got on a conference call in August.

Because we were like so excited about it. Yeah. I think it's like woke up from a nap. And right when Rachel told me, I like popped up. Like so excited.

And then one of you called me, I didn't pick up. I was on leave. The other one of you texted me being like, pick up the phone.

“Well, and then we had a conference call.”

Because I told you before. Actually, because I told you before, that's really, I'll just say what. There's no season. It doesn't matter now. But it's because I told you before.

But yeah, like we were all so excited. And something that Cally and I've been like trying to reckon with is like, we're part of the problem here. Like we've been hyping this up and really excited about about like a messy batch or act. That's like what we wanted. But we don't want this messy.

Rachel, I have a question for you because earlier today when we podcasted,

I told Julia that I felt semi-responsible because

and not that our opinion means that much. But more so just like we were some of the voices that were in huge support. I'll for sure of this casting. But even at the time we found out about this casting, like, we had enough evidence to know this was not a good idea.

Okay. So this is where I'm going to fault myself on this. Now I'm not going to take the blame. No, we didn't make any decisions. We were just saying that because we know that the typical bachelor right now,

assuming they did this for her goes through an STD background test, a psychological cycle, a psychological test and a criminal background test. Like that's three of the tests that you go through. So I would imagine that they would have done that for her. Do you think that they do that for her though?

And she's already on one of their network shows? She's not on ABC, but she is on Hulu already for three seasons. Maybe not. But this is where I say I take blame. If you had asked me prior to this to explain,

even though we saw episode one of season one, that this domestic violence dispute happened. Like it happened. We couldn't see what we saw today that was released by TMZ. But we knew it happened.

I didn't do more research. And this is where I'm going to blame myself. I knew I couldn't have explained it to you the way I can explain things now. I knew that there was an issue. I thought they both were at fault.

I thought I knew there was a child present. I thought it had been concluded that the child was not struck. And I thought they set not settled because it was a criminal thing, but she pled to something. She pled to aggravated assault and the other four charges were dropped.

So it was a plea deal with the child. And so I took that and I just left it there. And I didn't really do any research. And I was like, OK, I thought they removed the child. Not the domestic violence is OK in any kind of way.

I thought that they were both at fault. I knew he didn't want to give a statement. And I just took it there. There was still a lot of outrage though. Yes.

She was announced because people brought this up. And I even was kind of, I still didn't do research.

“I just was like, well, I remember that the original report.”

And I think it was fact she pled to this. And the other charges were dropped, which I thought they couldn't prove. That's why they were dropped. And it could be because he didn't give a statement. But or just because, you know, like, isn't it true?

Like in the court system, like you just take a plea deal. Like that's what it is. And then kind of like move on. But yes. But my main thing was what I saw in season three.

I saw a person who went for weeks away on a retreat. Yeah. Who told us that she had healed. And we saw it. We call him.

She was kind of the voice of reason for season three. And I thought that is what we were getting coming into the bathroom. I thought that is who said yes to the bathroom. I thought she was still in therapy. She's still working on herself.

But she is on the road to recovery. We also saw her in with Dakota. Even with season four starts. And that's a whole nother conversation. She starts saying they haven't been together for a year.

That is who I thought was saying yes to the bachelor at. Did I think she was going to find love? No, I've been very vocal that I'm there to watch it be her for the entertainment purpose. Yeah. And she gets it great.

I'm not going to root against it. But that's not what I was watching. To let's put aside what we saw.

I love that you used drip. What has been like the information that's been dripping out this past week. Let's put that aside. I want to come back to it. But yeah.

Let's put it aside. Season four. If you watch season four. Yeah. How did this?

Yeah. I can't get out of that. Once I watched it. And if you talked about it, we don't have to get into detail. No.

It's much, much like the season of the bachelor. It's not going to air. It's kind of like, it's so old.

“But Kelly, why don't you, like, what do you think having now seen season four?”

Like, what should they have done? Well, we, we.

Julia and I have talked about it offline and online that will never see the light of day.

But we both were kind of confused. Why after season four aired, it's the same people making these shows. So they were well aware of everything that was happening at season four during season Four filming six, seven months ago. Yeah.

And they still moved forward with her being the bachelor at just season four alone is enough for me to be like, Yeah. She can't be the bachelor. Yeah. I mean, just the last day where she misses her flight because she's bucked Dakota all night long.

So she can't get on the, she can't get out of her house like that alone is enough. And I just want to clarify one thing. The production team of secret lives of Mormon wives is different than the production team of the bachelor. But unscripted for Hulu is the same as unscripted for ABC. So at the network level, they do have the information.

And the other thing that's so crazy is that as we saw in Mormon wives, the season three reunion was taped very stirring. Yeah. During season four, like a month before she goes on to start her season of the bachelor at. And so maybe like six weeks.

But you know, like the first day of filming, like Taylor's already in, but in the machine for like how many weeks, right? Like before you actually get to the first night, like you do photo shoot and pre show press, like one or two weeks. She was announced. They were still filming when she was announced.

Yeah. But I'm just saying like based on your experience, like night one with the limos. Like how long have you sort of been in possession of the bachelor at before that? Like two weeks. Yeah.

So there was probably a month before in between like their season three season three reunion and Taylor's time. You know, with Warner Horizon basically. And so they had all this information. And the end of the at the reunion, one thing that's come out this week, with apparently didn't make it to air.

The season three reunion is that they talked about new allegations between Dakota and Taylor. So like so they cut, they cut it out. They cut it out of the reunion. And like the conversation was there for like fresh to again, on like the network level. So one of the things that I don't buy that TMZs and putting out this whole time is that ABC ignored like the information and whatever.

It's like they didn't ignore it. They had it. And they still decided to proceed anyway. Like they should have canceled it.

But you know, well, it should have never happened.

She should have never been casted. Now, I don't even think she should have ever been casted because now seeing this video.

“I'm like, how the fuck did secret life of Mormon wives ever happen?”

Yeah. Because it starts with this dispute. Yeah. And I have to imagine that they had way more information than the rest of us. Now, I will say, I think both Julia and I were way more aware of all of Taylor's flaws compared to what Rachel is saying.

Yeah. Oh, I just heard this this and this. We have been watching since season one. We knew she was. We knew everything that had gone on.

And even beyond this one incident throughout the season, she has done some crazy things. So like yeah, we were very much aware that she does not make good decisions. That she's erratic, that she's chaotic, that she is drawn to toxicity to the point where like, You could say that she's like semi-addicted to this. I think she definitely is.

I think she would even say, I think she might even say she's addicted to it. She kind of says it. Yeah. Yeah. So we knew all of this.

And we're still like, yeah. I can't wait for her. I can't wait for her. I can't just be honest. I and I'm not trying to make excuses because again, I knew that there was a charge.

I really thought they couldn't prove it. It was a good action. Not just a charge. A conviction sorry, one conviction.

But I always focus on the child.

Part of the reason I do that, too, is because as she was doing this press for this very quick press run. She kept saying, I would never harm my children. I'm a good mother.

“And I was reading between that is as I believe you.”

I think that this was, it was domestic violence between you and Dakota. Yeah. This most recent time. And I'm also basing that off of in 2023. What she was convicted of was violence towards Dakota, not in the kids.

So in my mind, I guess I had, you know, glazed over because I mean, because domestic violence is still an issue.

Yeah.

But when I was rooting for her and the mess, it was truly like, okay, she's still going to have a temper.

She's still going to put people in her place. She's going to do things the way that she wants to. She's probably going to be really rebellious. But she's going to, she's not going to be violent. Yeah.

“That's what I assumed because I also did we not all to give you guys.”

I know you, you're saying we wanted this. But there's no way you thought if she was still being violent towards anybody that they would have ever even. No. I just just or even who. Yeah.

That's what I know. I couldn't have been as bad as what the show showed me to to be on the flip side of this. And Rachel, you recently met her during filming. Yeah. When all the back threats surprised her.

From what we've seen, she's not. Mentally stable. It seems. Well, it's very clear in season four. I mean, for me.

Obviously now like the headline is.

The fight with Dakota and the sort of like collateral damage on her daughter.

But the stuff with her mom. I was like, oh, she's not this, but sorry. Yeah. I enjoyed it. Keep going.

No, no, no. No. So yeah, I didn't want to say that like for sure. I was saying it seems that she is not mentally well. I cannot imagine what she is feeling right now to have this video surface ever.

Let alone the day before a couple days before your bachelor at season airs. Your bachelor at season being. You know, she can't hold and knowing that she does have a support system, but I don't know how healthy it is. I'm like, I'm ready to go.

I'm worried that people are around here. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's got to be really low.

Also. She must be so worried about what her kids will think. Well, she. I mean, everything taken away from her. Yeah.

Like all, and in sounds like it's already. That's already in play because of the one on the table. Yeah. It's got to be a really, really, really low, low, low moment. It's, I'm like, worried about her.

I'm worried about her, too. I mean, I know that it's being reported that a psychiatric. I can talk. This happens.

“I think that a psychiatric evaluation has been ordered for both her and to cope.”

Yeah. But I do hope that she is. That being surrounded by people to watch over her. Yeah. This is really, really dark.

I hope I do hope the children. Maybe at this time or with their grandparents or another family member at the same time. They're saying this just just based on the video. I'm just saying because she's not who would be in a good place at this moment. Mm-hmm.

And this isn't to shoot. Like anybody who's listening, like, I'm not. This is not to make excuses, okay? I'm not. And I want to be clear.

One of these other bachelor rats out here who could not condemn what they saw. Okay. I saw a couple of other bachelor rats. You know who you are. Putting up statements saying like.

I, you know, I've seen what's out there. I'm going to wait for more information. But when I met Taylor, she was this. Stop. Right?

I saw that. Stop. Or somebody else saying, well, when I saw what I saw, I understand because I've gone through an issue. That's your issue. This is Taylor's issue.

Totally different. You know, didn't put out a statement. Me. I met Taylor. I'm not Taylor's friend.

I don't know Taylor. So why would I put out a statement as if I do? I met Taylor when I met her. She was nice. She was very curious.

She had a lot of questions. Hmm.

But I always say, I said she was overwhelmed.

And she didn't know who we were. I know that. I know that. I know that. I know that looking the eye when you don't know who the people are.

I didn't know the other bachelor rats like that either. I was like, I know Trist. Okay. But I, I, I just, we don't know her. You don't really know anybody, right?

So I'm not going to put out a statement there. I'm not here to take up for her out, but I'm also not here. It's like beat her down because we also don't know all the details. But what I will say is this is bad. This is bad for Taylor personally.

This is bad for her children. This is bad for. And that's just that because I want to save space for that. This is bad for the bachelor. As a Francia one.

Get into that. This is bad for Disney. This is bad for Hulu. Because somebody's going to have to take the blame for not vetting this out. We've had other instances of contestants where they've been domestic violence issues.

And these men, because the men get dog. How did this pass the threshold? Because I would just assume that it was, oh, that it was okay. I, I think it's an explicable.

“I think in County and I did say this on Monday.”

If you watch season four, it's like, why do they position it this way? Like why do they show? Because then, you know, like full disclosure, we've all seen episode one of this bachelor at season that's not going to air. The Taylor that we were going to get in the bachelor at season is not the Taylor of season.

Right. She's there a little bit.

But it was a generous generous at it that made her seem like she was ready and like open beyond that. I'm like, they make her seem like this like sweet little single mom. And like, I'm not saying that she's not those things, but she's also a lot of other things. And they made sure to not include some of the other things.

“And I think that might be one of the reasons that they're like,”

"There's no way we can air this." That's true. That's true. And one of the other things, I just want to say this. This is a people magazine article that came out yesterday.

Macy Neely says that Mormon wise season three gave Taylor Frankie Paul a very quote, level headed at it ahead of her bachelor at debut. So again, we knew about the charges in 2023, but you've heard all of us say we watched her in season three and thought, Whoa, she's on the road for healing.

Yeah. Again, the responsibility is with if what Macy is saying is true, the responsibility lies somewhere in whoever is in charge of this editing

and gave the go to edit certain things out to where as an audience,

we thought Taylor Frankie Paul was one way when in reality, she wasn't okay. She wasn't healed. She wasn't better in any kind of way. And maybe they thought they couldn't do it in season four,

but I don't know. I don't know, but this is, it's so inexplicable. Also, it's just because of the disappointing. The build of season four is to her like having sex with Dakota. It's just so, it's so confusing.

So I mentioned this before. The bachelor had has not been on in two years. The last bachelor had was Jen. And then it went to Grant to Bachelor. And then it went to Golden Bachelor with Joan,

which was a total bust. And then Bachelor in Paradise and Costa Rica at the corporate hotel, which I don't think was that well received either. A lot of time at the pool.

“Like, Cali, where do you think the franchise can go from here?”

And I know that's a lot less important than the charges, but like, this is a podcast about this. This is a started as a podcast about the bachelor. I'm not sure. So it's called Bachelor Party.

So, like, where do you think the franchise can go from here? Oh, I. Yeah. Do you know what it's like? Just it's done.

I do. I think it might be it. And we have talked about like, what could save it? And we wanted somebody like a tailor. Yeah.

Clearly not a tailor. There's other woman wives that are single that we think could have been better suited. There's plenty of other reality stars that could have been better suited. Or even traditional talent that are single and could have been better suited. And same for on like the men's side as well.

But for this to crash and burn so awfully. And I would say like Rachel, we've said that if this season actually aired, like without all this drama and how excited we were for Taylor. And if this season completely flopped, we thought it was going to be the end of it. This is beyond flopping.

Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a fiery death in hell. It's really bad. What do you think Rachel? I think it's over.

And only I think it, I don't know. I'm sure I, as Cali was talking and I was listening to what you're saying. I was trying to think of a scenario where it could be different. Because this isn't just all we put it all on a person. This person did this.

This is the system that allowed this to happen.

“So how did the name bachelor at bachelor is tainted at this point?”

How do you move forward past that? You can't. People are going to people were already mad. There was, there was a sect, there was, there was excitement. There was going to be a new audience.

But the traditional bachelor viewers were already upset by this decision. What a pro-clutching. So how do you trust this name, who's bachelor bachelor, that is meant something to people moving forward? You don't.

You already questioned it when you moved Taylor, Frankie Paul over. Now it is completely destroyed. Like why did you guys think this was okay? That's the question that needs to be answered.

We're never going to get that from Taylor at this point.

I don't, I think, I could make an argument. Secret lives may be done. I think so too. I actually don't, I mean, she certainly off of that. But, or she has to be.

But I, I don't know even though they got to this point. It's just so confusing to me. I've said this in million times now, but I don't know how the same network was like, "Yeah, let's do this season four. Mormon ones.

Yeah, go straight into Boucherette." It's so dissonant. Like it just doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, do you think that they had seen this video season one of Slomo? No.

I don't think so. Yeah. No, I think because the charges were dropped, I think it was, it was hidden. But obviously this was produced in a strategic way.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, keep, I think for the past week, it seems like there was a coordinated, like,

Yeah.

And it's not to let her off the hook in any way,

but like, yeah, a lot of the information we're getting, like none of it is new. The video. The thing to me that stuck out as, like, the weirdest,

“was I think reality Steve became in possession of,”

Yeah. Photos. Photos. I mean, they phone calls. Yeah.

And they call Tim a hundred and eighteen times. It like two AM or something like that. And it's like, you don't go to reality Steve unless, like, you're trying to do some kind of coordinated effort to, like, take down Taylor and the show in the week leading up to it.

Yeah. It's supposedly, it was Dakota's roommate. He was sent the picture of Dakota's phone to reality Steve. Also Dakota's roommate who took videos of what happened recently. And Dakota's.

I had that thought, too. Yeah. Dakota's got a roommate.

Dakota's roommate who called the cops into pictures of his neck after the

supposed, strangulation. Strangulation. Yeah. Yeah. It's all coming from Dakota's team.

I mean, when I saw the report that, allegedly Dakota tried to warn ABC about that. That was ready. That was a bad headline to me. Yeah.

I saw that. I said, Oh, they are setting themselves up to blame. This network for this coming out. It just, like, as you said, it was just being fed to us day. Yeah.

I don't even know if he wanted to release this. I feel like he was giving piece by piece to see what it took to get this cancelled.

“Oh, I think that was planned to release this.”

I don't know. I kind of, from the way that TMZ article is written, I thought, maybe they got it out of the corpiles. The video. I haven't, I didn't get to read the article.

I didn't podcast. It didn't seem like they, although I don't know. I put their watermark on it. I don't know. It's not clear to me that the video was given to them, but a lot of it was.

And TMZ was just running these really credulous headlines that were just ridiculous. Like, well, together. Okay. Julia and I had talked about earlier.

It's hard to make you saying this. But like, we talked about it for 45 minutes. We're not, we're not putting it up. But two things. One thing, Dakota in the past has done this.

Time and time again whenever Taylor has anything coming out. He does something to sabotage it gets an invite with her, says something, whatever. So it's just weird that this is happening again. But at the same time, when TMZ reported everything. They did a timeline of like what Taylor's team is saying and what Dakota's team is saying.

There was stuff that Taylor's team was saying that was already proven false. And that Dakota's timeline was proven to be true. And we were saying like, that's not a really good place for Taylor to be going into this. That we've already, we already know that Dakota's telling the truth about one thing. And you're not.

Yeah. And that just makes people start to believe more things that he's saying.

“And who knows if he's putting a little bit of sauce on it or making, you know, who knows?”

I have a theory. Yeah. When you look at the, so I text you before I started higher learning that the article about the video. Yeah. Higher learning three hours later, there's an article that the show is canceled.

I think somebody from the network sent it. The video knew they were going to cancel it. The network did not see that video and then three hours cancel the show. I think they already had the video. I, I have a, I kind of agreed that because what I was going to say is Callie was talking.

I think the death now for her was GMA yesterday. Doesn't that sound familiar? Literally five years ago. There was a GMA interview. With her seroton.

Yes. Yeah. And it was like, what was that? And then shortly after you came on extra? No, shortly after.

I'm just saying they don't code. It's a good morning America. Did you actually go forward GMA with you? He did, he does the extra interview. Then he went to GMA to talk to straight hand and straight and literally said after, yeah,

I don't believe any of that. Well, Larry Spencer tried to get Taylor to like take some culpability and she went and do it. You said, you know, I'm a good, I did it. I'm a good mom. But like, she did not acknowledge it.

It was weird. It was very, very weird.

Yes, face was like, well, yeah, there were two, there were kind of like two crucial parts that interview.

One, she used the first part where she could have been like apologetic. I think the company woman would have been like, you know, I'm really sorry. This is happening. I'm really sorry to my wonderful 23 guys who put their life on hold to come on the show. And it's going to overshot away.

But I hope people watch our show anyway. She could have said that. But instead, she basically said, I've been through this before, or preferring to happen in 2023, I got to tell my story. I hope I got the opportunity to do it again.

And then the second time, the second thing was Larry Spencer was like,

you know, it's been reported that filming has stopped on season five of Mormon wives. Like, what can you say about that? And Taylor was like, yeah, I just found, I just heard that. I was just told that.

“And Larry Spencer was like, well, aren't you an executive producer on the show?”

And Taylor was like, yeah, but I just, she's like, I just found that out the end of season four. She's like, yeah, just saw that. I was just like, wow. But also she in the very beginning of the interview is like,

obviously it's been a heavy time. But like, you know, I'm just trying to live in the moment and like, you know, just be excited for the Bachelor. Obviously, I also like put my kids first. But you know, at the same time,

just trying to enjoy this moment. And I was just like, this is not good. Like, you're not, you're not coming across good to anyone. Not to moms, not to Bachelor at fans. Yeah, to your man, not to ABC.

Like, who are you looking good for? I am so glad you pointed that out because she made a statement where she was like, you know, it's just a heavy time. And sadly, every single one of my premieres has been, I haven't been able to enjoy any of them.

And then my mind, I was like, that is such a selfish statement. Yeah, because it's stuff you did. Right. It's not like there have been lies told about you.

“It's stuff, again, I was like, where is the lack of accountability?”

And this is before the cancellation, this is before the video. I just remember listening to that and thinking, who told you to say that? Right. There's another thing she said.

I'm not gonna say it was political. And I was like, who approved this message? That's all I felt when I could say it is. Oh, yeah. You can double time there.

It was, I really can't always occur.

But it was compared to what something died. Maybe it was died. I think it was in Minneapolis. It was either Renee Good or Alex predi. I think it was Alex predi.

Alex predi. And she said, Alex predi and Charlie Kirk. I'm sorry. What? She was like, she was like, no one deserves to die.

And I'm so sad that this is happening in Minnesota. Much like what happened to Charlie Kirk. And everyone was like, what? I won't publicly who approved this message. And I say the same thing about this.

The first thing that we got when this information started to drop this week was her first response was it's a heavy time. And then she said, I have not been able to enjoy any of my premieres. The word in joy should not have even been in the statement. Has any bachelorette enjoy their premiere after having been on the show? Like, is it art?

Most of you, like, traumatized. No, the press that you do before the premiere of your season is really fun. Okay. You're on. Good morning, Erica.

You're talking about how excited you are for everyone to see this. Like, you're all dressed up.

It's like, the first time you've even been.

Taylor hasn't because she's been on woman lines. But it's the first time you've been adored in this way. It actually is they give you your role. At least they used to like Michael Schrein would give you a role. Sure.

Yeah, it's a totally fun time. Okay, not a Taylor's been wrong. Not a sit down in the room where you had to prep with a crisis PR person.

“At least that's what was being reported.”

That's not how it goes. Right. I just feel like as a mom, two things. One. I don't think you have to be a mom and feel this way.

But as a mom. Watching that video was horrifying. It was very, really sad. Yeah. I feel nauseous and also I was like, how the fuck did she get her kids back?

Like, obviously, I hope she did work and whatever. And it seems like her ex, which Julia and I said, like, it seems like he is a pretty normal guy. And he is chosen not to be a part of Slomo. He has chosen not to allow her kids their kids. The two kids that he has with her.

They're not allowed to be on it at all. So he is clearly like a protective parent and isn't willing to do things that don't fall within his values for money. That seems to be very clear. And also even through all of this and everything with Dakota, he is pretty much been silent. He was like, I'm out of the way.

I'm here for like, my kid, me and my kids. That's all I care about. I don't even know where I was going to go. They have a good relationship. She calls him on the season premiere.

Yeah. It's a good question. While you were talking and I'm sorry, this is my thoughts are all over the place. It's a real time. It's a real time.

We just found this information out. I don't think that video was in the police file. Because if Dakota refused to give a statement, then why would he give the video? And if she was only, if all the other charges were dropped, it was enough because now I've looked at the complaint. It was enough that he actually had physical marks on his body to corroborate the fact that he had been attacked.

That's a tailored video. I don't think the police did. Taylor did. I don't think the police did. TMZ says TMZ has obtained the video.

“A copy of which was evidence in the case.”

Well, shit. I was trying to make that to your point. I don't know how she did not get charged. Yeah. Yeah.

And how does it seem? Or how this wasn't figured out sooner. Or how the network didn't have it sooner.

Or maybe they did and still proceeded, which we've said in a million times.

But also when I was going with my, no, go ahead. You keep going. What I was going to say with my long statement about, like, as a mom seeing that video, it's horrifying. It seems like her, her ex is doing everything possible to protect his children as much as he can. From what we know.

I'm going to credit. But yes, he's doing. He's making some good decisions that we're doing. Things that we are aware of that we agree with. Yes.

Parenting wise. If that was my kid in a video, it would take having and fucking earth for them to see her parent again. Also, in the video, Dakota goes, you're drunk. And so is also that. And he was so hard the time.

Yeah. Yes. And. Which is also interesting. Because by the way, on the Bachelor of Premier, she makes a plan of staying on drink anymore.

She hasn't since that day. Yeah. But with these new DV allegations that include children again, which they're allegations. So we don't know what exactly has happened yet. So we don't know what exactly has happened.

So we don't know what exactly has happened. So we don't know what exactly has happened. So we don't know what exactly has happened. So we don't know what exactly has happened. So we don't know what exactly has happened.

So we don't know what exactly has happened. So we don't know what exactly has happened. So we don't know what exactly has happened. So we don't know what exactly has happened. That are like none of that with the Bachelor at.

Yeah. I think so too. Also she I think wanted a moment.

“Like I think I think also we saw this with Whitney with Jen and like Whitney's having this huge”

moment where she's like have the highest grossing week of all time. From Chicago and like having a celebration. Jen also dancing with the stars. Like I feel like in any of Taylor has been the star of the show and like the leader of Mom talk I think like I think these each of these women like you know they mom talk has anchored

them in a way but like they all do want to have their own breakout.

And Taylor was always to have like the biggest breakout solo moment possible.

And I think she kind of was just like pursuing that over everything else. And I do think to your point cali like there's been Dakota. Other than Dakota. Her mom and her family. Like obviously her mom and her sister were like very much pro.

Like yes, you should be doing this. You should be doing this with her. They were on the show and they were supposed to fly to LA with her. And I think also her mom made a possible for her to go on the show because she says that like her kid She was going to be able to see her kids.

I presume it's by having her mom come with them. So it's just like she definitely has a neighbor's around her. And it's but it sounds like you know for the other moms and mom talk like they maybe Just like enough was enough. And it must have been a really bad fight at the end of February between her and Dakota.

I'm talking to women. We're not doing this anymore. Yeah, seem to conflicting things. One what you set a reports one what you said about. They refused to film with her. The other one was that he disappeared. They said he disappeared for three for three weeks.

They couldn't find him and they need him.

“I think I might have come from her side, but they needed him to film.”

Because he's such a crucial part of the show.

But now that I know that in Cali saying it to that it came from her side. Then, you know, I think it may be confirmed. That she would. That she would. And make it. Yeah, may seem like Cali confirmed they won't film with her. They told us to see what that means.

Think of even how we got moremen lives. Remember, they were not in a good place with her because she had made it seem like they were also a part of the swinging scandal and they weren't. And their names were kind of being dragged through the mud because of what she said and such a reckless way.

Now, they cannot afford to be enabling her with something like this. And it's, it's so like even when I watch Mormon lives and you watch that argument that she's having with her mom and her mom is getting on to her. And I don't want to spoil it for people. But for a decision that fuck it, it really doesn't matter at this point.

But for a decision that she made that she didn't agree with. And her defense is, I've explained this to you. I'm addicted. Yeah. That's not okay. And even information that I've received from this week of kind of like how she's responding to it, it's that, well, this is who I am,

not about the domestic violence I want to be clear. But just more of when people question her and we should talk about this too, of like, what should people watch your season?

Are you concerned about people being invested?

It's kind of like, well, this is me. This is who I am. And there's just like a disconnect there. And so even out of all the things we talk about, two things I really do hope that and I know we can agree on happen.

One, the children are where they can be that is most safe and beneficial to them. Yeah, ever that's with, not just where they are, but who that's with. And then too, she needs to go away and get help. And I hope that they're able to specifically target what that help is that she needs. Whether it's one thing or multiple things, she needs help.

T being on TV is not good for her. Yeah, it's, but like, it's not just TV, it's TikTok too.

“Like, she, I think that's a big part of it.”

Like, this, this shit with, um, she posted a video this week. We're like, you see the arm of a guy. And I guess it was the guy who was going to have won the Bapzer at or something like that. Like, I do think that she's not alone in this, but like, you know, it's proven like people feed off the attention and the feedback from social media.

Yeah. When you're as famous as her on TikTok, like, it's too an extreme degree. It's like, she needs to just like, have her phone taken away. Like, she just needs to like, like, she needs like a three month, like, like, detachment from her world.

And I hope that she can see her kids in a safe way through that. But other than that, like, she, it's like a full detox that she needs. Because her idea is wrapped up in the chat. Yeah. And then in getting approval and back and forth with people who are not in in the reality.

Like somebody told me, I also heard that during her season, you know, she says, like, this is who I really am. Well, that person. What does that mean?

Like, the way that we'll, we'll never see.

But the way that you see her journey through this season, she's like, this is me. It's different from what you've seen on Warner Lives because she's detached from Dakota. Because she doesn't have her phone, all of those things. And so if that's her, you know, I'll believe her.

It's a version of her we haven't seen. So maybe you tap into that. Yeah. Like, that's the kind of things or boundaries I need to put in place with this particular man or unhealthy relationships, including with her phone, not just with people.

And maybe that will lead you on the road to recovery.

“But I think that she should no sit down interviews.”

No. No nothing, just go get help. And in the two years sit down and talk about your recovery. But no, shut. No, I'm not going to reward it with anything like that.

Yeah.

Is it a bachelor at group chat popping off?

Like, what's happening right now? No, the last thing that was said was, I see this is the other thing. This goes back to when everyone was like, what about how did I respond? When everyone, it was like her season was about to start. What happens to son?

I message, what's up? Like, where is the chat? It's, I message. I say, that's a look at my cool. What's the curve?

It's bachelor at. We saw you on your red jump. But they don't name it that. It's bets. That's okay.

Make sense. With the weekend, nobody has been silent since the information came out. Except for the few people that have decided to talk on social media. Also, I was a Katie, Joan, Tasha, charity. And charity refused to go to this media dinner earlier this week.

Yeah, no, good for them. I understand exactly why they wouldn't do that. But last Sunday, the chat was active just saying because it was after the special. So everyone was like, oh, you know, it was so nice to see everyone. And oh, you know, like, I'm, people would be like, I'm so excited for you.

For your season. I love you. And I was like, look at this. Yeah, I don't know. [laughs]

The shared spot? Not that I could sell. But she said, because I don't have any unknown numbers. No, she did not respond. Not once.

So she got out of to the chat. She did not respond. And then I said, I said, it's going to be an adventure. [laughs] And I said, I'm excited for you.

Experience it. Like, yeah, it's going to be an adventure. I'm excited for you. It's because everyone was putting their names. So she got their number.

But I was like, I'm not going to be like, I love you. You're going to be like, no, I want to be entertained. That's what at least I did. But not in this way.

“I mean, who knew when I said I was going to come back to bachelor party, that this is what I would be coming back to?”

I mean, and now I'm back out. I think we're stuck. Yeah, I think I can't believe this might be the end of the bachelor full stop. But I don't know how much more word. This affects a lot of people.

A lot. I mean, think about other podcasts. And then I'm not bachelor party. You all talk about multiple things. So I'm just saying like, we're going to be brand anyway.

Yeah, that it's totally related to just this. Like, I'm like want to do wellness checks on certain people who I'm like, what do you do when this interests? And let me just say this also. When I talk about.

I don't know if this is going to sound super harsh, but just say it.

Well, I just was going to say, there are people we talk about is this the end of the franchise. And it's easy to say.

“Yes, I think so just in light of everything.”

I cannot see a world where it comes back. But in saying that, I think you also have to acknowledge that so many people are about to lose their job. Yeah. And that's the irresponsible part, too, with the network. Because I still have friends that work on the show.

And in an industry right now where it is slim. Hicking when it comes to new shows. And people even leaving the positions that they have. The jobs are do not exist. And so for people who have faced their entire living who have been a part of this franchise for over for double decades years,

we just have to acknowledge that whoever decided to look past these issues or a video or a background and know that this could possibly come out and be detrimental to the franchise, whether it was one person, multiple people, whatever it may be. Now it's a bigger loss. It's not just you don't get your season that air.

Sure. It's that people are going to be unemployed. Right. And that is really, really sucks. Yeah, sucks.

It really sucks. Because I don't even see a paradise coming back. Like that it best. Also it would only show that could come back. It would definitely feel like that would be the best pivot for them is to just start filming paradise

in the next like two months and start teasing it. But not the corporate hotel version. Like it needs to actually be gone. Not the corporate hotel version. No.

I mean, there just hasn't been a good bachelor product in a long time. Like, I didn't even remember Grant. Our producer Olivia had to remind me that Grant had a season. I haven't thought about Grant since his season ended. I mean, maybe once or twice.

Like that was bad. Joan was terrible. Paradise was terrible. Jen season was like a total fact. Pretty good.

But the way that it ended with like the guy she chose. Joey season was pretty good. Joey's was the last good season. But that was also like that was on the heels of Clayton, which was bad. And like it's just been.

It's been pretty rough basically since 2019.

I would say since had a brown. And it's been downhill since then, which like even.

“I think that's been another good season since 2019.”

I went had a brown and then it went Peter. And then. That was about that. Peter was it was enjoyable. It was enjoyable.

It just was it was a rough ending. And then like the mom drama. It was funny. It's true. And then Coco started like five days after Peter sees an ended.

Like that like that. But his his life and alley might have been a super spreader event. And then COVID started. And we all know it hasn't been the same since. Like it was the Clare in Tasha.

So weird season. That's horrible. Then it was the Matt. Absolute tire fire. And then Chris Harrison leaves the franchise.

And. Obviously like since COVID, it has not been good. And it also went on like a 22 month run of being on constantly. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's when the product got bad. Yeah. It was it became quantity over quality. I will say a girlfriend of mine said the other day. Shows are not meant to go on forever.

And forever. That's the reality that we. Right different type of show. But the reality that we might have to accept. Like they've been trying to hold on for as long as they could.

To you guys just laid out. It's been years. Yeah. Of subpar seasons. And it might.

It's crazy that this is the way it ended like. Damn. It should have just ended on the special. It should have. Well.

It's ending. People aren't going to see this. I'm sorry. So you will be a part of the last episode ever. The bachelor.

Thank God. And just the problem to me though, is that even though we did not enjoy. And it seems like a lot of people have not enjoyed in years. The ratings still did pretty good. And comparison to other reality shows.

I think because it's on ABC, but I don't know. In terms of like a water cooler show, like I can just tell you. People have said like, oh, I thought you guys only talked about the bachelor on your podcast. So and I don't watch anymore. So it definitely doesn't have like the kind of mono culture aspect that it used to.

And when I first started doing reality podcast was in July 2012.

And it was, I believe Emily Maynard season was the first one I covered. And yeah, it was great. Like from Emily Maynard really threw Hannah Brown like that sort of like seven year stretch. It was kind of the center of reality TV and like at the center of popular culture and like a really mainstream way.

“And you know, I think that like, I mean, who can speak to that better than you Rachel?”

Like from you know, being like a regular person to being just like thrust into fame. Mm-hmm. And how can you build it to change lives, right?

You still don't know if it's so close. I mean, I don't know. I've watched it years. Well, you haven't said that people that you still come off the show would have like X amount of following. And now like like people come off the show.

And it's like peanuts. I remember when I went on the show.

Someone, one of the producers said to me, you'll never have to work in law again.

Well, that did turn out to be true. But I did go back. But it easily couldn't. Like it's not that easy. But yeah, it had to, your guys' point.

It had the ability to change lives. Um, and it still does just in a dark way. Yeah. It's kind of nuts. And this is, I'm always going to remember this podcast.

It's hard for me to believe this is an end of it. But I also don't see a path forward. Is it? Okay. Guys forgive me.

I'm not trying to make. I'm not making a lot of anything.

“But like, isn't it kind of poetic that I just happen to be in New York?”

Yeah. And I, and doing bachelor party. And like, we're all gathered here. I'm happy to be there. I can't believe that I was, I was surely I would have zoomed in.

Of course.

But I'm just saying like, it's crazy.

I mean, we were excited to do this episode because it was like, You got it back. And now it's like, wow. What a sad end. What's crazy is two minutes into recording this episode.

It's so loud. It's so loud. Oh, my God. Well, thank you for being here. Oh, thank you for joining us.

Thanks for having me. Well, keep talking about this in the weeks to come. I'm sure. It feels pretty relevant. But we had some fun talking about survivor and age of attraction.

People made a palette clip. Yeah. So we're going to roll that. And yeah, I hope you enjoy. Let's get into it.

Shall we move on to it? Happy your topics. Okay. Is it happier? RIP right.

Mike White. What a what a sad loss.

Moreover, what a waste of time was that brown.

So we love survivor here. Sure. I wish that we could screenshot our text messages leading up to the episode. We have found out that most people involved with Bachelor party and Moirly Corrupt are obsessed with survivor.

“I think it's like the number one show at the ringer right now.”

Like people love it here. Yeah. It's I don't know how you know. I was at my nephew's birthday party yesterday. And it was like seven o'clock in my mom was like, are you ready to go?

Got a wrap. No. I was like, I've been ready. I got to get home and time for survivor. And she went in.

The guy said next to me was like, you still watch that. And I was like, I don't. You don't. You don't. You don't watch it.

I was like, I don't know how you don't. It's the best show on TV. And my mom was like, there's a lot of rules. I was like, watch one episode and you'll pick it up. There's not that many rules.

I wish there were more. I wish there was more production interference because I'm so sad. Mike White is gone. But that's kind of like, you know that a production was persuading people. Q would still be there.

Totally. And Mike White would still be there. It's too huge losses. It's really. I was reading survivor read it last night.

I saw a good post that was like, when you have three tribes versus two, one of those tribes just becomes like the loser because they just can't keep up. Yeah, it's good. Decimated. Yeah.

And that's like, they should have done two tribes for 50 to have maximum like best players around. It's such a bomb. Yeah. It's such a bummer. Also, Mike was playing.

I know he really thought he did it by manipulating Christian. I have to give Christian a little bit of credit for like, was resisting, but to cast your lot with Emily who's so chaotic and can't keep her mouth. Shut it. It's, it's, it's good.

I can't keep her mouth shut. It's, it's, it's good. I can't keep her mouth shut. I can't keep her mouth shut. I've been anti-amlicing today once.

You have. You've called it. She's not. She's not it. It's so frustrating that he chose her over Mike White.

And I guess like he wanted to put it on. I don't think he chose her.

“I think he was like, oh, Mike White is here to play.”

Like he's not fucking around. And because he sees it with Ozzy on this tribe, he's like, he's going to be hard to get out because people don't want to go against him. Right. And I don't think it's just because they want to be in white lotus.

I think he just seems really charming and like fun. I don't. Yeah. Listen. Do I think Ozzy's going to be maybe who knows?

Like White seems like there's no, like who knows if he'll, if he'll be in white lotus or not. Because they have the real, restaurant relationship. Like White White. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's also just like, whether you want, whether it's, uh, conscious or unconscious, like celebrities have power. And he is a celebrity now. And people think he's cool when he doesn't have to really do much. Yeah.

Um, I find him very funny. And I was really enjoying watching him. Um, the shots of them coming out of the net after they lost. So sad and dramatic. They're on all fours crawling out like destroyed.

And Christian and Mike White in particular, it was like so funny.

And like the boat did not move.

Did not finish. Like an inch. And I want, I was like yelling at my TV. Like, ah. Bet you had Q now.

Q agrees. He tweeted about it.

“He was like, that's what they get for voting on Q.”

Because even trying to get the pills down. Like, they could only do one person at a time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, guys.

And Emily being like, you know what? We made a good move. And you know, we might suffer in the challenges. Then everyone's going to go home from your tribe. Emily.

I know. Obviously, I have the same thing. Very short. Side it. Emily just can't be trusted.

So I guess Christian is just banging on the fact that when he gets back to when they like, remerge or whatever. Yeah. Like he'll be back with devins and it'll be, and it'll be fine. But also Angelina's now like a wild card.

No, she's not that she's like powerful in this tribe.

But depending on how things play out. I guess they're assuming they'll just lose again. But then she could just go. But it just is like, it was just a big loss. Emily's got to go.

I would love to know from Christian. And he can't do press yet because he's selling the show. If he made up his mind before tribal or if hearing might give that speech about like selling people on a dream or selling them on a story is what made him chill. They own the coffin.

Yeah. Look a pretty bold move. It was dumb. Yeah. It was very arrogant to position it though.

Yes. I agree. Yeah. Not a smart move. I was hoping when Emily was like, the vibe.

But I forgot what she said. But she was like, things aren't right here. I was like, oh, good. Maybe it's her. But I don't know.

I was like, what are you doing? Like every time she says something. I'm like, what are you doing? The way that she just immediately told Aussie after Christian told her not to was just honestly strange.

“I'm just like, do you have impulse control problems?”

Like, what is your date of front of Christian? It was so it was such bad gameplay. I did read and I don't know if this is boiler, but Christian and Emily have a relationship outside of the show. It's like, I read that too.

The neuro relationship, like, very into like theoretical science or whatever. So what do you mean? Well, I think it's like, sat Christians like a physics PhD, whatever. Anyway, um, that I'm sure that's playing into it. And it does seem like there's just, with this cast in particular, so many outside

forces from like before the show, their alliances and stuff. But yeah, I actually don't mind that. Like, that's kind of a criticism of this season. I don't mind it. Like yeah, these people, they're from this system.

I guess that's like, if you, if I'm minded, I wouldn't have watched the challenge for so many years, right? So it's fine by me. Yeah, also, it's survivor 50 where you're having people from all these seasons. You don't think that people have like kept up that we're like,

on a season together or like, most people that go on survivor love survivor. And they just keep watching it. They all know who each other are. They only people that have like some sort of like, an anonymity were riso and Savannah's gone.

So it's like really just riso. Everyone else, for the most part, like, they know each other. And they have to go to events every year for every survivor premiere. Yeah, premiere and like they're just going to be around each other. Yeah.

I did like Christian standing behind Ozzy's like looking at Emily like shot up. It was sunny. Christian is delivering the season. That's for sure. He's a main character.

“Yeah, I'm like, how does he not win at the way the things are going?”

Obviously there could be a huge turn of events. But like, I don't think you win show right now. I don't think he does. But I think they're setting it up for like him to go far and like a big fall. So we're like Andy went on his season like very similar.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yeah. Um, okay. Zach Brown.

Yeah. I know it's 50 and they're trying to do these like flashy things. It was half the show. I saw this a lot of graphics about like how much time he's gotten compared to other people. And he's had like he had like four confessionals and Tiff has had one the whole season.

And like I don't give a shit about him spearfishing. I actually way more interested in Aussie catching eight fish after the challenge than I am about Zach Brown learning to spearfish. Like I do not care. I'm like this is just not what we're watching the show for.

And I actually like the music of Zach Browns like pleasant country music. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me too.

No problem. I like Zach Brown. Yeah. No problem. Zach Brown.

I don't need 20 minutes of him. In Survivor 50. Definitely not. It's a waste.

Like the time is even like the songs give us like a 10 second.

Like I don't need to see them on the hammock. I don't need to see interviews of other people talking about how much he means to me. How much he means to them. I don't need to see the interview or D crying on the beach. Like I didn't need any of it.

I was like, did Zach Browns music label pay CBS for this. Like it's such ridiculous promo for him. It was, it was kind of too much. Yeah. I was really not into it.

Or weather, I was like, it's not even one of your best songs dude.

At least that's how I feel. And yeah, I just, that was, it was way, way, way, way too much. And usually we get a, a, a immunity challenge and a, what's the other one called? A rewards challenge.

Yeah. And only getting one. When we only got one and they said it was for both. I was like, wait, what's the rest of the episode? And then halfway through the Zach Brown thing.

I was like, this is this is the episode. But it was, I don't know. If you understand survivor in CBS, people are counting down the hours. So we get our survivor episode. I don't want to count down to that.

Not me. I was pissed. Also, we barely got to hear from the tribe that one. Like, and some a lot of the fun of when the tribe wins and they go to the sanctuary. He's like, they get drunk and make mistakes and like do weird stuff.

“And aren't they supposed to be like talking strategy?”

We got none of it. I know. My favorite moment for this sanctuary that was seen Colby. He just seemed like so at ease. And I just like, this is Colby's speed.

I'm like, okay, make the checks out. It was a, it was a real bummer. And we got decrying about not going more than anything happened to you with strategy. Yeah, I don't care. I don't care.

I don't care. I was sort of anti-dead at the beginning of the season. But I'm, I'm glad to have her actually. Just whatever.

I have never been anti, but I was kind of like, oh, God, again.

I know, it's been a lot of D. No, no, no, with Brizz God. Oh. And his Mickey Mouse impersonation really did a lot for me because it was so good. And also him and Charlie in a one-sided beef is like for some reason.

I love how much Charlie hates it. I know Charlie's great TV. I really like Charlie. I'm worried Brizz God is going to take him out. But I'm fine with Brizz God taking him out if he has to.

But I just think it's hilarious that Charlie liked him. And then right when he said he didn't vote for her. That's it. And he's like, I can't stop thinking about that. That's how I respond, I think.

I'd be like, yeah, I just can't get past that. So you're going to have to go. You would have cost me my survivor win just like my number one did. So I can't move forward with you. Yeah.

Thanks, my note. Thanks, Charlie. That's what I have for you. It seems we're getting that next episode. Yeah.

So looking forward to. The long-term hours, CBS, pounding the hours.

“No, I mean, at some point Billie Eilich has to show up, right?”

I assume just her name. I don't know. Shout out to Genevieve for finding another idol. Too bad she couldn't just keep it herself. I really wanted Aubrey to find it.

I'm cheering for Aubrey because I feel like everyone's against her. She's looking on two tribes that don't fuck with her for no reason. Well, maybe it's not no reason. It's the crap that she's not the reason. I'd like to know the reason is.

Yeah. She seems just like like she's like a loner. My guess is super confident. She's cried multiple times already. My guess is that she didn't participate in any of the pre-show.

Strategizing, so she's got like no ties to anybody. And therefore, she's like this prior. It's a current Chrissy. Like they both have no buddy. Oh, the Chrissy.

I guess at least Chrissy helped. The coach. Yeah. Well, coach. I don't know.

I think coach and like Colby have like a good relationship. Yeah, but coach was like Chrissy please stop talking. I just got to don't take this the wrong way. She got to stop. And he's not a nice guy.

I'm very anti coach ABC. I don't know anybody but coach. He's definitely not gentle. No. He's just like so obsessed with himself, too.

He's like, what's so great about you? All it is is like you've given yourself a mythology and like you spout it all the time. I love that when Zach Brown was talking about how he like watches the show with his kids. And like family means so much to him or whatever. Just like flash to like a Joe coach and Colby.

And I was just like, okay, I see the us. That's definitely the people they prioritize. That's true. They're like they're so proud because they're such high character men. I'm like, okay.

“I think a lot of people are hating Joe this season.”

Like a lot of people want Joe. Just too much. He's like too hard. Yeah, he was really softened by having you bow around. I think it even was first season.

We would have felt this way sooner. But they did have a very sweet relationship. So that's nice, I guess. It was, yeah, just what a bummer. I did feel bad for D.

She wanted to really want to go to the sanctuary. Okay. Well, then win. I think Camilla has a really good shot. She's so fucking good at these puzzles.

She's so good. And guiding the strategy. Like, she is the true puzzle person. And even if she's not like holding it up, like she is key to their success.

I like that win.

Because there's always like the people that come on the show

that are like, I'm good at puzzles. I'm good at puzzles.

Which like, I haven't heard her say once. She's good at puzzles. She's amazing. She saw the letters. It was like the solid version.

Yeah. I was like, how did you, like, it took her two seconds to do that out? She plays New York Times selling me every day. Yeah. There, I mean, something like she's practicing puzzles.

Definitely.

“That's the only thing that's only going to come up with.”

I would be happy if she went far. It would be, it would be very deserved. In my opinion, like, a different kind of game. She's getting a lot, I was saying Emily is also. I was like out of the women.

She's getting some of the most, like, airtime. Yeah. Out of the women. It's been Stephanie kind of angelina this week. But not really.

But it's been, it's been Stephanie. Emily. Camilla. Camilla. And then it's been before the merge.

Seri was getting a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I need. In janvier.

In janvier. Yeah. I do need Seri to kind of like take a back seat for a few weeks. It's like she has. I know.

I like it. Yeah. So long as her tribe stays winning or, like, in the middle. She's on a great tribe. So they should be winning.

Yeah. I think, I think they'll be fine. And of course, she was one of the judges for the town show. Like, of course. She's obviously natural born leader.

Right.

She's always leading whatever position she's in.

I do think that being in, we've talked about this, but like, being a health care worker, like when D was crying. Like, if that were me, maybe maybe I'd be nice about it. I don't know if I'm hungry probably not, but like, she's a hungry and like, you see her, like, tap D's shoulder and she's like,

Okay. I'm like, she's crying about a fucking band appearance on survivor. Like, now she's not crying because she didn't get rice. Yeah. Do you watch the pit?

Of course. I could see three is one of the great nurses of the house. They should give her a little spot. I don't know. It's a great actor, but, yes, sure.

The pit though, I feel like just be yourself for, like, ten seconds. That's true. Just be yourself. I love dating. Just like Mike White gave Angelina, Angelina, two seconds.

She could do it. Baby Jane Doe. You like Dana? Love. Yeah.

I mean, she's a bit character. Yeah. I think she's like the crowd favorite. I'm not alone in this stance. Um, she's great.

I love Dr. Shows. I love it. I've been really surprised at how much I like Stanto's this season. Um, just great writing all around. I'm obsessed with Sean Hadsey, the guy who plays Dr. Abbott, who's like the

Knight counterpart of Dr. Robbie. He's only on a few episodes.

Oh, he's like the one that always takes over for him.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Love that guy. Well, he's been on a more this season because he's,

no wily is always almost leaving. Always on the verge of having a breakdown too. So almost going to go on his motorcycle. I'm like this trip happening or not. I think.

“Well, I think that's he is like, we have like four more episodes to go.”

Three more to go. So we'll find out. Um, I also just want to note on the pit. Water parks and like roller coasters are like two of my biggest fears. Cause like they're so unregulated.

Like, could break at any time. So didn't, didn't need that to be a story line. Maybe because I grew up in Orlando like I'm not fearful at all. Well, I think Disney has a higher standard than like your average water. Oh, yeah, like I'm not going to those.

First of all, disgusting. You already know how I feel about that. The germs are that's a no go for me. I'm only going to like Disney water parks, which they keep incredibly clean and they're still dirty.

Yeah. Typhoon McGoon. But like when I did it live in Orlando, when you live at other places, they have like those random theme parks. That everybody goes to there's one here in North Carolina.

And when I went to it, I was like, it's so dangerous. Are we sure? No. Those tears.

We're not sure. Also, it's like teenagers running in. I know. And it's only unregulated. There's no like state safety standards.

It's really dangerous. At Disney, they're so strict on high requirements. And have you? Yo, you don't get on roller coaster. There's this, there's this ride there called Tron.

And it's like one of the only roller coasters I'll get on for some reason. It doesn't make me sick. But it's the fastest one. Um, and Carter made the height requirement at five. Oh, no.

And she really wanted to get on it. And I was like sweating in line.

“Like I'm like, is this a horrible parenting decision?”

And she was so excited because none of her other cousins could make it. Because they were all shorter. Um, but her being younger and still taller. She was like, I'm going. And we got in line.

They measured her. I'm not even kidding. Like seven times before we got to the front. Which at one point I kind of got annoyed, but it made me feel better. I'm like, they're not going to let her get on this if they think it's dangerous at all.

Yeah. Um, and we got, she passed all of them. We got to the front. And like I was like pretty nervous. And Carter saw it come in.

And it was like never mind.

I was like, God. But she went on it like four months later.

The last time I went on a roller coaster was at California Grated Ventura.

Disney's parked there.

“And I think I threw up after I got so nauseous.”

I've got really bad motion sickness. So, how do you always? Um, yeah. It's obviously like, I mean, I haven't even. I have way to Uber's at all costs.

If I take them, they're like very short. Like in the neighborhood. Like I get so car sick. And it's, you know, when I was pregnant, it was so, so bad. And I have barely been in a new.

I've been in very few, for instance, since giving birth. But, uh, like, one's like went far. That's like one, and when I'm in LA now, I refuse to not run to car. Because I'm like, I can't be in Uber's all the time. So, yeah.

I don't like Uber's either. But they get better the further you get away from giving birth. Because I think your hormones are just so high. Yeah. But, um, Tesla is getting canceled.

That's like, I can't get in a Tesla. I get so sick. Part every time I'm in the backseat at the Tesla. Yeah. Um, and I could even get sick in the passenger seat sometimes in a Tesla.

Um, but I have to be in Uber's all the time. But I remember when I was pregnant, especially living in New York, where I had to Uber a lot, especially in Brooklyn. Because there's not like, yeah, it's public transportation. It's not as comfortable.

It's harder. Yeah. Um, and I felt like I sweat every single time I got in. Because I was like trying to have to throw up. I have to have the windows open.

Doesn't matter. How cold it is. Yeah.

Actually, when it's cold, it feels amazing when you're trying to throw up.

Also, I wish that Uber drivers were like barred from wearing cologne.

“It's just like, I've been really also, I think.”

Um, sensitive sense of smell. And. So why? And, um, it's one of my least favorite things about getting in a Uber. It's like you just don't know what smells you're being confronted with.

I have goosebumps right now because I got into an Uber when I was in Newark last week. And, um, it smelled like a feet, like actual feet. Like I'm like to give his shoes off. There's no way to last people left their feet stench behind. Oh, my God.

This is disgusting. Oh, God. I know. And I had a stomach ache. So I got in and it was just like, oh.

Okay. This is bad all around. Um, let's quickly check in on the age of attraction episode seven and eight. Uh, it's almost like going on the show is a bad idea for most of these people. Hard to believe, isn't it?

Well, I wonder. I want to know like if they have a reunion, which I don't know if they will or not can't imagine. Nick and Natalie at a reunion.

“Um, I think they would do better at a reunion then like hosting on the show.”

Cause it's more similar to a podcast. Natalie seems so uncomfortable. I don't know. Who knows what was going on. She got the dinner on the at the end of the most recent episode.

Uh-huh. It felt like she was like reading a script and they were telling her like how to talk. It was very like robotic and weird. It's very similar to like those ultimatum dinners. Well, yeah, she's it's not great.

Which couple like were you the most like, oh, this is really bad while you were while we were watching these ones? None of them are good. Uh-huh. I was sort of the most upset by Chris and Leah because I'm just like this has nothing to do with your age. Dear friends, like you're just not a match.

Like like she wants to be together all the time and he does not. And so then like the funny thing about that is she won't be home a lot because she's a butt attendant. But I'm like, that's just not a match. So it says nothing to do with age. It's just like you guys don't want the same kind of relationship.

So just wrap it up. Yeah, I think she's like a little annoying. Yeah, she's playing. She's a stage partner. Yeah.

And he's like pretty laid back. So like those don't mix well at all. Um, I like his mom. She was nice. Honestly, a lot of the parents were great.

Yeah. Um, like I was shocked by five first parents. Yeah, they were like a lot more accepting than I was expecting. Although way more. I did think that I do think it deserves Derek, right?

Like he's a pretty good guy. So yeah, he seems super normal. And like even him being like, do you want to go talk to me to the dad? Like I feel like that's a nice thing to do. Um, and I mean by the end of it,

they don't seem very happy. But um, well up until that point, it seemed like they were like communicating very well. And I don't know. We talked about how he was talking about how to introduce her to his kids.

And it seems like he's like pretty thoughtful. So I was just, I mean, the dad was just like,

I've never seen paper act like this.

I communicate like the bifur. It's just like the piece. It looks like, you know, like, looks like paper. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was just like, that's really sweet.

“Well, when she tells his sister, like, you know,”

but when I move to Texas, like, I really want to find my people and like find my own name for myself. Like she clearly is not just trying to like glam on to his life. It seems like she does like him and like wants to try to build something. So I like her. Yeah.

I like her too. I like both of them. Even when she was crying, and she was like, I'm the one that has to give up. Like what I've worked for and my friends.

Um, and him not really understanding that was like, I know, that's pretty like understandable. Yeah. I do think that like eight.

We talk with this a million times.

As you get older, age difference is matter less and less. But like just dating someone in their 20s, like you just so much exploration to do, like, Yeah. I mean, the other couple that I found really upsetting was Libby.

And I forgot the name of the guy, but the 22 year old woman. Yeah. Like, like, he obviously got a lot of second thoughts after seeing his friends. And well, I mean, his friends were like, this is a joke.

I mean, well, all of all do respect. She's 22. It is a joke. Like, she's a very young 22. Compared to a fiber who's 23.

Like, Libby seems like she graduated school yesterday, or the fibers like so self-possessed. Much more mature has more life experience.

“Libby is like, I'm like, is she lying about her age?”

Because she seems so young. I agree. Also, like, when Derek Sister was like asking her about, like meeting the kids, and she was like,

I've never dated anyone with kids,

but like, I have my experience from my parents, and like, the way that she communicated all of that, and like her thoughts about it, was like pretty eloquent for a 23 year old. Yeah.

And/or in general for any age, but like, especially for a 23 year old. And then, um, I don't know the guy at the 38 year old's friends, he was just like... His name is Andrew.

I've just looked at that. Andrew, okay. Andrew's friends like asked for the most simple question, and they were like, she was just like, "Two thumbs up?"

Yeah. There. So... Yeah. And it's just the completely opposite.

Yes. It was really... And then his friends being like, "Yeah, he's got a type blonde in 22 to 25." And he's just like, "Okay, so he's also not ready to like,

having their own relationships." So this is the, this is the now. The thing that he said that I actually found the most concerning, though, was he was like, "You know, my daughters are 12 and 14." So like, I don't have to do as much parenting.

And I'm like, um, I would say like, maybe you don't have to like, parenting.

Be with them every second.

But yeah, like, they're going to require a lot of attention for the next, you know, eight years at least. They're special. Which when he fed it, his friends were like, "Uh, at least they didn't agree."

That's friend. What are you talking about? At least he's got some good voice that reason it is. Like, that was reassuring. I also thought his friends were like completely nice to her.

Like, they weren't rude at all. But like, right with they had him by themselves. They were like, "What are you doing?" Yeah. And on the flip side, the bee's friends were like,

"Step mom, Libby. I'm sorry. You're not ready for this." Also how she was like, "Yeah, I just want to be more like a big sister. I'm not here to be a step mom." And it's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, that's not." That's not how like your friend was like,

"You're not going to be a big sister, though. You're going to be a step mom." I thought her friends were like, "Rity, like, honest." And then just like buy into whatever.

Yeah. They were also super young though. The one wearing a headband. I was like, "Did you just come here from Claire?" I was like, it was shockingly.

I thought that Theresa's children were like, on the day accepted it more than most of the other like family. I didn't surprise me that much. I mean, because they're adults, right? So, you know, in some ways it doesn't affect them as much.

They don't have to, they're not going to have like this step dad. And they can like, just approve their mom dating this 27-year-old, but they don't have necessarily spent time with him in the same way that like, 12-year-old would be forced to. Yeah, I also was thinking, because Theresa was like,

"If, like, I get judged harder than a man. It'd be way more acceptable."

“And I was thinking to myself, like, yes, I think in public,”

you would be judged harder than a man would be. But with your kids, I feel like you're probably judged less, like her saying that, like, I don't want you guys to see me hurt again. Did it? Did it? Did it? Whatever. It seems like she might have a co-parent,

but she definitely was the main parent. Yeah, with them. And the way that her kids were talking, I'm like, you, they know, and it seems that they know.

And your life took a back seat.

So, while obviously they probably wouldn't want you to date a 27-year-old,

“I think all of them are like, we really want our mom”

to find something that makes her happy. Whereas, as if it was their dad showing up at 22-year-old, they'd probably like, this is a joke. Yeah. Yeah, it's just a 27-year-old.

They seem to weigh more, like, trustful, like, trusting of her, of, like, what you're interested in. Also, he's not, like, he's not living. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I actually like him. And I still see his two serious for me, but yeah, he seems like a pretty good guy. I mean, yes, I like him for this experiment. Yeah, agreed.

And she was just so much more nervous than he was. And the other thing, she just, she presents much younger than 54. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, like, I would be more embarrassed by, like,

just the fact that she doesn't seem her age than who she's doing. They didn't. No, not at all. I don't think they should be embarrassed with how, well, I'd be embarrassed to hear my mom have sex on TV,

but I'm not telling them to be embarrassed. I feel like after watching this show, because, like, I'm sure they're watching it back, I feel way more comfortable with John seeing how he acts. Yeah.

He acts much older than his age. Yeah. And even before he met her, it seemed like he was into older women. He's fine not having kids. Like, yeah, they seem like the most likely to actually have something,

but I just don't know if any of them do. I also think his, he is letting her take the lead, because he has just kids. Yeah. And like, he wants to make sure that she's comfortable.

But I do like his note of, like, if you are more confident, people are going to be more confident in us. But you know, freaking out. Like, doesn't help anything. It's true.

Also, I get why his sister was so concerned.

“She was like, why wouldn't she let you tell us her age?”

Yeah. Like, I get why that's concerning. Also, I, you know, again, like, I think his sister made some good points. Like, he is only 27. And so he could experience a lot of lifestyle.

But it doesn't seem like he would be hampered by being in a relationship with Teresa, the way that like, Libby would be hampered by, like, okay, now I'm a big sister slash step mom. Like, he does have, he has a lot more maturity. So it's not impossible to believe.

Yeah, even like when when Libby and Andrew were talking at one point, I don't think this was like the last jump of episodes. But he was like, you know, sometimes I'm going to be with my kids. And she's like, yeah, like, you do your thing. And I do my thing.

And like, I'm going to hang with my friends. And I was just like, this is, this is not going anywhere. No, definitely not. Logan and Vanessa. Uh, they're done.

They shouldn't. Why are they selling a show?

I thought they were going to break up in the first five minutes.

So she's crying talking to the camera. And then they like continue to meet each other's family. I was like, why? There's nothing. Why?

No, nothing. He does not like her. And she just thinks he's like young and fun. Yeah. And they're just even though they don't like each other.

He does not. He definitely does not like her. That's for sure. No, I wonder if they get paid per episode or something.

“Because I'm like, what is he, what is he hanging on for?”

Oh, the last thing I wanted to say on this is the interaction between Lisa and Leah at the dinner. Yeah, at the very end. Leah, why do you care with what she's doing? Leah's just sort of off.

There's nothing to worry about her. I'm like, why are you? Why do you have such a big opinion on whether she told her children or not? Also, I think it's not great whenever someone doesn't have kids. And the person who has kids are like, do you have kids?

Because, like, you don't know if Leah ever wanted kids or whatever. But watching that scene, I would have been like, why are you giving me advice on what to do with my three children? And to have none. And you have no stake in this game. Totally.

Also, Teresa is not only older than her than John. She's also older than Leah.

Like, I just always think it's like more perspective that comes on the topic over time.

I do think that, like, watching it back, I would be more confident in my relationship. If I really thought it was going to be something, which I think Teresa does at this time. I think she should have been more confident. But I kind of understand her thought process with the kids. Yeah, she's also just sort of like, I get the impression that every second, she's like, I can't believe this is happening.

Like, she just seems like she's so much disbelief. I know she really likes him and it's just like, she'll like forget about his age. And then be like suddenly snacked with like, why is like when you're sleeping? Can you like adults to awake with a thought? Yes, she's like sleepwalking through and having a good time.

And then she's like, oh shit, I'm 27 years older. Yeah. I'm literally double his age.

it's like there's like some kings to work out.

“Like, the second season of this show will be more compelling.”

But yeah. I also think it's interesting that like a bunch of the couple does thinking about this, how like they just like end up going with people their own age. So like it wasn't interesting. It's sort of funny how people find each other.

But I would like to know if there's a reunion or if there's like a recap at the end of the last episode.

Like, can you let us know? Yeah, I need an apple. I need an apple. I need an apple. I need an apple.

Yeah, look at us. So what's up?

“That's not usually Netflix a style, but who knows?”

Yeah.

Cali, you're watching ladies of London.

I just started because I got some clips on TikTok that I've won and just started to talk to Rachel about it a few times. I'm really crap because we both are interested. But I saw some clips on TikTok about one of the ladies supposedly being a madame, madame, madame, madame, madame. You know what? Why don't you let graduate that lady?

Definitely a madame. That just confirmed it. If I was unsure before, I know now. But that's making me want to watch the show. It is sensational.

It's really good casting.

“Honestly, last night I was like, "Where's the episode?"”

I didn't realize it was on Thursday. I can't wait to watch it tonight. It's so good. Okay. Well, I'll probably catch up on our next podcast.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, everybody. We'll be back on Sunday night with Rachel Lindsey. Thank you to our producer Olivia Crary.

No thank you to Christian and Hope You Have A Great Weekend.