[INTERLUDE 1] - Interview with Jordan Hirsch

We've had a whole season of amazing stories that took us across the universe

“and into the minds of a diverse cast of characters.”

I often find that the stories behind the stories can be just as interesting as the fiction authors have created. We are lucky that every author with a story from season one was kind enough to grant me an interview and tell me those stories. In today's episode, I interview Jordan Hirsch, author of Writing on the Wall from season one, episode one. Jordan Hirsch writes speculative fiction and poetry in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Her debut poetry, chatbook, both worlds, is available with bottle cap press and four women of St. Paul, a collection of short fiction, is out with red bird chatbooks. Jordan, thank you again for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me. The first question I have just to kick it off with is the image that started this story. Is there any character? Is there any image? Is there any idea that generated that sparked the

story behind writing on the wall? Yeah, a secret question. We're trying to remember back. A few years ago there was a drought here in Minnesota. I mean, I feel like the past few summers we've had drought and I just had this, you hear, I mean, I grew up in the south. You hear like, "Oh, we're praying for rain. We really need the rain and that kind of thing." So to have that concept asked that question of like, "Why would someone pray against it,

raining when to obviously flood?" But like, you know, they want to pray for it to stop raining by like, "Yeah, why would someone pray for drought? Why would they not want it to rain?" When rain historically growing up on a farm was good. You know, you don't want too much rain, but you need rain. So it's kind of where it started if I remember correctly? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

“And it's very cinematic, I think. It has a very real sense of places.”

There are specific location that you're envisioning or sort of inspired by or was it just sort of created whole cloth? Um, I feel like I'm about to show my nerd card, which that's great. proud of it. I'm a huge avatar of the last year, Bender. Yeah, wonderful. And I feel like there's a lot of like desert, um, I mean, they got to kind of go all over, right? But that particular world during the series, if you've seen it, um, but this kind of put

I had a mind kind of like this, I think it's from season two, they're in kind of like, it's like desert-y cliff area for a while, rotten in the earth nation. Yeah, yeah. And so that's kind of what I envision, because I've not been to a location like that. So I had to work with what I'm familiar with, which is avatar the last year, Bender. Yeah. Well, I think you did a fabulous job of setting me there and helping me imagine them moving through these canyons through this

desert type environment. Um, did you have a specific reader in mind and a specific person or

audience that you were hoping this story would reach? Yeah, um, so first of all, I'm always trying

to write for myself, which is like, feels a little cliche, because I feel like all the writing books tell you to do that. It's a hard thing to do, right? But I want to write a story for myself, kind of from the lens of asking, you know, what, when you grow up in a community of faith or a household of faith, regardless of what faith it would be, kind of when, when do you kind of shift

“from like, oh, this is just what we do to, oh, this is what I believe, because that's my own story,”

you know, having grown up in a community of faith and, um, as I got older, like, is this what I believe, is this real, or do they all just have the world hold over their eyes, kind of questions? Because I think there are a lot of people go through that, whether they grow up in a community of faith or not. And so, yeah, just wanting to explore that. Perfect. And actually that segue is very nicely into the next question I have. Yeah, is there anything in the story that kind of

you were nervous about writing or exploring or putting down? Was there anything that you weren't sure that either you were the right person to do it or that you, you were equipped to address it? Yeah, I was really nervous that it would come across, I didn't want to communicate that all

faith is irrelevant or all faith is, um, people of faith are always ignorant. I really didn't

want to communicate that. And part of that is, I tried at the end to make it kind of ambiguous, kind of with that question of, you know, did not to spoil the story. But hopefully, listeners of already listen to it. But yeah, I, that question of like, well, who said that there are gods that they wouldn't work through this kind of scientific means? Yeah. So, yeah, I really, I wanted, I would hopefully had a deaf hand with that because I didn't want to communicate that

everything that seems to be without explanation has a fan explanation to it at the end of the day.

was there a scene that was more difficult to write than others? Is there any scene that you could

“coming back to and rewriting and tweaking and polishing that it took a couple tries to get it just”

right? Yeah. I mean, the final scene for sure, like I wanted, what COVID said, I was really, yeah, really wanting what COVID had to say to not be dismissive of a shield's experience or his questions. And so really, I went over that a lot. And then similarly, when master COVID first becomes sick and a shield's kind of assigned this task, yeah, I really wanted to get that right as well. Yeah, just part of part of the day struggle to write kind of like transition he seems. Yeah.

So I was like, okay, how do I get them from like the camp up to, you know, this Canyon? Yeah, but and how do I how do I get a shield in this situation? I need him to be in. But part of it was, yeah, wanting to like kind of display his questions and his all of the like complex emotions he was feeling in that moment while still kind of moving the story along. You know, I didn't want

to, you know, introspection for too long. Yeah. Yeah. And and was a shield always going to go sort of

alone or was COVID, did you try and have him change? No, I'm always going to always going to let's, I guess say this correctly. COVID was never going to go. There we go. A shield was always going to go. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to do double negative here. So I don't know. Yeah, a shield is going to go by himself. Okay. And the ending that you wrote was it always headed in that direction or did you change paths? Did you change endings? Anything about that? Yeah, I,

that's a good question. As I was tweaking it, I definitely, I went back and forth on exactly how much to reveal about what COVID himself believes, how much to reveal of that. So that was kind of, that was the big one that I kind of toyed with. Like, what does COVID himself believe? And how

“much of that is he going to share in that moment with the shield? Yeah. And I think you achieved”

a beautiful balance there at the very end where even at the end there's a graceful sort of note that you ended on where we don't actually say with 100% certainty that he is this way or that way. And he leaves it open to interpretation both to a shield and to us as an audience. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any Easter eggs in this story that you kind of tucked in there and you, maybe people noticed it, maybe they didn't, but you'd point it out to me. Oh gosh,

not that I can think of. No, not that I can think of. Yeah. I think that I can really read it to be like, oh, is there? But yeah, I, not that I can think off the top of my head. Well, and I think that that avatar tip is an interesting lens with which people can go back and listen to it. Yeah, yeah, that's probably the, the big one. Well, I, I'm going to have to go back and look at it myself with that. All right. We'll move on to a little bit of a lightning round to see where you are as,

as an author then. Yeah. Okay. The first one. Very traditional question, pancer or platter. Oh gosh. I, I would say platter, but I, we're a full-time job in addition to writing.

I feel like I don't always have time to plot as much as I want to. I just want to like,

I've limited time so I just tend to dive in. Yeah. But I would, in an ideal world, I would be plotting. I see perfect answer. Yeah. What's your, what's your power hour? Like if you have a day that's free and you can write at any point of it, which part do you choose for your best work? Yeah, 8 a.m. I am best in the morning. Maybe even 7 a.m. I'm best in the morning and then it's down hill from here. So everything before lunch and then after that it's free time. Yeah. Perfect. What's

“your drafting vibe? Do you turn on music? Do you have some kind of sound going or is it dead silence?”

Hmm. Well, what about both? I, I, I would say I lean towards dead silence. But I like a good

low-fi beat like low-fi hip hop in the background. I almost always have to have a candle live, though.

Like, I feel like that helps me. Like, all right. It is drafting time, writing time. Yeah. So always a candle lit. Perfect. That's one of those rituals that puts you on the mindset. Yeah. Do you prefer to write by computer or ever write by hand? Do you draft by hand and put it on the computer? What's your tool? I typically draft on the computer. If I'm stuck, I draft by hand. Because usually I, um, the computer. It doesn't make me sense because there's a backspace.

Yeah. But the computer just feels too like official sometimes. And so I have what I call the like crappy notebook method where like this notebook is old. It's full of other random stuff.

into it. It's not official. And so that'll help get me stuck. But generally, unless I'm stuck, I draft on the computer. I see. And when it comes to your drafting and editing method, are you, uh, keep it all or, and, and, you know, have versions or do you

“liberally use the delete key? Um, I liberally use the delete key. Okay. No fear. Most of the time. Yeah.”

I'm currently revising a novel right now and so I'm like, oh gosh, I've kept away too much.

Just in case, could you never know? Yeah. Um, but yeah, generally, I'm very liberal with the

delete key, which is hard because I have an underwriter, like when I draft that underwrite and I have to go back and like fill and things to make make a make sense until, you know, add depth, the characters and stuff in the world. But, um, yeah, I don't keep it off. Fair enough. Um, and then a final question for you and, and you can take a beat to think about it if you'd like. But, if you got to have dinner and drinks with any author, living or historic, who would it be,

and what would you talk about? Oh gosh, living or historic, you said.

Being or historic, go back as far as you'd like. Um, okay. I had, I mean, I had a thought initially

“and went through a few other options, but I'm going to go to my first thought because I think that's”

the real answer. Um, even after giving it a little thought, Octavia Butler, um, she's one of my very favorite authors. I would love to just pick her brain about everything, um, about, you know, the world. She lived in, um, the time she lived in, I guess, and kind of her thoughts on the time now and how, I mean, she's seen as a very prophetic author. And so, wanting to get her take on our current circumstances, wanting to get her take on where we're going from here. But also about, you know,

the craft. Because I love her work, um, love her, her characters in her worlds. Yeah. So that actually makes sense. I want to hear everything from her. I guess as a bonus question, is there a book of hers or a work of hers that you particularly admire or just the whole work catalog. I mean, the pattern, the pattern master series is phenomenal. But I, when I was doing my master's program, I wrote my research paper on, um, the Zeno Genesis trilogy and I love

love that trilogy so much. Yeah, I wish, I wish I could write like, you know, it doesn't more research papers dressed on that trilogy. I loved it. I want to reread it, but it's been a

“few years, but that's probably my favorite. Perfect. And I think that's a great recommendation for”

viewers for listeners to go check out Zeno Genesis by Octavia Butler to go check out more of Jordan Hershey's writing. Your writing is listed on your website, so they should go check that out, give it a read. And Jordan, you're also on the socials. Hey, Ames. They can go find you. They can go follow you and keep up on your work. Yeah, particularly Instagram and please guide or my two essentials right now. So all right, perfect. Well, I love getting to hear from you, getting to learn

more about the story. Um, and I'm, uh, I really appreciate the time we spent today. And hopefully anybody who still hasn't done so yet, please go back, uh, read a listen to Jordan's story, season one, story number one, writing on the wall. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. If you enjoyed this interview, make sure you're subscribed to this podcast. I also hope you consider sharing this podcast with somebody who loves great fiction. Next week's interview with Steve Azison will be released as a

written exchange exclusively on Patreon. The interview will be available for free, but I hope you

consider signing up to support biome, so I can keep sharing amazing stories and interviews with you.

You'll find the link in the show notes. But for now, dear listener, farewell, wherever the days take you.