The Odyssey

Excuse me, I am about a simple beggar.

Is this the kingdom of the Czech Republic? I've heard that your co-host has been journeying on an Odyssey across Europe, and there is an opening to co-host the podcast. And once again, I'm just a simple beggar, and nothing more. On Sheath, that way!

I draw into the bow. Into my bow, into my bow, the bit bow. Right, right, here's my bit bow. Joke arrow. What the fuck are the pods?

Oh, that's the pods, that's the pods. That's why the pods cast. Wow. That was so great. That was really good.

Yay! And you have authentic facial hair, much like Matt Damon. I do, I have, you have what I described. I'm describing it as, you look like Seth Bullock and Deadpool. Yes.

I do, I've been saying, can keys to door, but you're right. I feel a little donko-hoté. It's a little, maybe that's because I've been in Spain. Well, that's true. We should explain for the listeners basically Griffin.

He's always been rocking a mustache, but now he's got a pretty full soul patch.

You've got the pat. I'll say this. So the mustache has become more and more of an emphasis in how I conduct my face. I'm a fellow stashman. I got it.

I'll have it up. We look great. We're secret stashers. Thank you. I'm filming a TV show.

I'm working on a TV show, which I'm going to say. Sometimes I think people should make. And I'm going to say Griffin, humble brag. Thank you. This TV show was very well-run, but I am coming in late into a season.

And there's a big wall in the hair and makeup trailer of like the 70-speaking roles in this season. Yes. And I'm introduced like 60 out of 70. There you go.

“And they're like, you need to have a facial hair design that is different than what anyone else has.”

So it's like so many of the things have been claimed in variations.

And I came in just sort of unshaved. I hadn't shaved anything in like a month or two. Going into this. And they were like, we're keeping the mustache. And we're emphasizing the flavor.

No. So even right now, you're seeing me on a couple days off from filming. The rest of my face has been squeaky clean. I got a little stubble back now. But I've been squeaky clean outside of mustache and flavor saved.

Squeaky. And you're right. I look exactly like Matt Damon in the Odyssey. Well, I was going to ask you, like, how long of a beard can you grow? Oh, like if a lot.

Matt Damon's beard. The length of it is really impressive. Yeah. But did you grow facial hair? You can grow a long beard.

You can. It's about commitment. It's about time. It might be easier. It might be easier.

Yeah. If I have too much beard, I start like picking at it as like a nervous. Exactly. Right. And then I start like pulling out and fought some with it.

So then I usually don't let it get past a certain point. I heard the Matt Damon grew for a year. He said a year. He said he had a beard for a year. I guess it's how it put it.

It's a fun looking beard. Yes. Because in Greek antiquity, they didn't have fake beards. I guess. So now I'm just like no fake beards.

Well, and we know that this is a movie that is 100% historically accurate.

“And that's why no one is angry about it.”

Exactly. Wait, people are already angry about it. Oh, don't worry about them. Don't worry about those guys. We're here to celebrate.

It's guys. You're seeing it's angry guys. What if it was all girls? Then if I told you that one multi multi billionaire was angry about this movie, who would you guess it was? One very online.

Well, let me think. Are they normal though? The most normal. Okay, then Elon Musk. For a sense of humor.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. What's this podcast called?

This is called the policy. And it's called burnt check with Griffin and David, but today we're going on a policy. We are going on a policy to ifika and I guess Troy and. A bunch of other, I mean islands with scary stuff on them. York City's.

Yeah. Right. A bunch of other right. That's so funny. Have you guys been to Asika?

Of course. My mother is a Cornell alum. The thing that's really scary about Ifika as far as walking around is the gorgeous. And you have to go over these bridges. And you just look down and it's just quite.

It's quite. It's quite a. It's quite a.

“I visited Cornell and I think I'm like a little college tour.”

And the the one thing that everyone talked about was like, Oh, yeah.

I know. Into the gorgeous. It's going to hit the college.

“And just casually mentioned like, yeah, we'll just will commit suicide.”

Because it's too gorgeous. Very small. Look at the island. Like, God, everyone's fighting over this. That big.

Yes. You know it. Because it has some nice beaches. It's home. I know it's home.

It's home. But, you know, Pattinson's coming all the way out. Just to try and get this a look. Why not this? Look at this island's huge.

Kuffaloonia right next door. I don't know. Maybe they're fucking monsters on it. Yeah. God.

All these islands. There are no monsters on there. They're just. There's. Yeah.

There's men. They're the monsters. But you don't have like giant Bill Irwin like but naked with one. I eating you see my. My read on it was just the smaller island is maybe more strategic.

I maybe. Maybe safer. I easier to govern too. It's just. I know.

You know. Got some sheep. I want to front load this. The. The.

“The Cyclops sequence in the movie is the highlight of the film for me.”

Interesting. I would not say that's true for me. But it makes sense that it is for you because it. It. It.

It have big monster. Which you do. I love big monster. I also love Bill Irwin. Who love Bill Irwin.

It genuinely was one of the first times in a long time that I watched a sequence in a movie and went.

I have no idea how the fuck they did. I have the same. I certainly obviously I was trying to give myself over to the movie. But I was constantly kind of like. I guess there's some force perspective.

I'm not totally sure how they pulled this off. But then it's it's that great movie magic thing where you watch one shot and you go. Okay. I think I figured out. And then I switched it up and the next shot completely breaks whatever your sense was.

And part of it is that he's he's pulling things back to basic so much. Yeah. That any over complicated process that you would just assume or hand wave away you're rolling out. Yeah. I don't know.

It's it was very cool when he pick up guy and eat him. Yeah. That was scary. I got scared. Step on him with foot.

And step on him with. You know what's so cool about the Odyssey is I wouldn't be surprised of all of us. Had a different. Favorite section of the movie. Okay.

Let's go around. Let's do this. Let's go around the horse. I think I've been burned. I have the same favorite section though.

Well, I have two favorites. Oh, I know. My favorite section is certainly Cersei in the pig. Yes. Cersei was a big stand out for me.

But I also was really really moved by. The flashback to Odysseus's experience of carnage and joy. That was very yes.

I was very impressed by the narrative thing he was doing in the third act.

Certainly. Yes. That is fair. Ben. Okay.

I'm going to attempt to say the name of these people. And I'm sure I'm going to butcher it. The last dragonians. The big guys. The big.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Oh my god. It was so sick.

Yeah. Yes. That was crazy when it was like who's that man? And then it turns around. It's a giant kid.

Sure. And he's laughing. Well, that was great. It's weird that Ben liked the sequence with the taunting trialed and the giant tree army.

And I like the sequence with the emotionally wounded monster. Just in a fetal position in a cave. I play by one of America's finest clowns. I didn't know it was builder when until after the fact. Yeah.

I had to tell you. It's such a good performance. Very cool. This is blank trick with Griffin and David. It's a podcast about homographies.

Directors who have massive success early on in their careers. Such as making a Bartman movie. And are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Those checks have not run out for one.

Christopher Nolan. You've got his man bigger on an uninterrupted run of checks being handed to him for now 21 years. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. What are we counting as the. Batman begins. That was 21 years ago. Yeah.

Was 2000. That's crazy. Oh my god. I was but 19 maybe 20 years old. Yeah.

You could say the Batman begins with the guaranteed.

“But I think the circumstances around Batman were so weird at that point in time”

that they basically gave him a blank check because they were like we got no better

idea. But we already said this with him. He he constantly has guarantors. He said about this movie like this is my biggest budget movie ever. And it's because up and highmer did so well like it's like it keeps.

But you don't get to make a movie like up and highmer at up and highmer's budget without that being a bit of a blank check as well. Correct. Correct. I have no idea what he does from here.

Can do it. I don't either. I think he has to go smaller. And I think he's even sort of talking about that now. But we covered him many years ago.

At the time he already was arguably the filmmaker of his generation. And with every success of film he has only become more and more important. And now he's making what feels like. The biggest movie you could possibly imagine. Yeah.

Sure. I mean we had this conversation after up and highmer all of us. What we were just like the fuck does he do next? When up and highmer which on paper was a one for me. Makes nearly a billion dollars and wins every Oscar.

Yeah. And performs as high as most of his films have ever achieved.

“And then what is there even left for this guy to cash in?”

And there were all the rumors that he was doing blue thunder. That's made up. Is that a word? Is that a word? Is that a helicopter?

That's not a word. That's not a word.

That always he doing a horror movie.

Is he doing it this? He has sort of like he wants to figure out a horror movie. Which is interesting. But you remember we were all in the office together. I can't remember what episode we had just recorded or about to record.

And I went holy shit. And I showed you there was a tweet. And it was Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey. Filmed entirely in IMAX coming summer 2026. Right.

It was just at all at once. Suddenly the announcement was out there. We had known the cast. The cast had been growing, had been pinned to the board. But we didn't know what it was.

And then we just went holy shit. Of course he had to do this. It was either the Odyssey or the Bible. It was the only move for him to do that. As he's pointed out, there's no Hollywood version of the Odyssey ever.

That's what's why. And that's why you're bad to be this.

No one had ever tried this.

Obviously there's there were a couple sort of Italian, you know, I was like, I'm on to Sunday. That's a TV movie. I tried watching that on YouTube last night. I tried it off after 30 seconds.

“Do you want to see what the Cyclops looks like in it?”

Yeah, I'm posted it to my work Slack. Oh, you know, he looks kind of good. He looks like a big baby. Let me see this guy. I like this.

I like this guy. Looks pretty good. It's a little bit dinosaurs vibe. You know, you're like, you know, little early Holland there. Did you mention creature shop work on this?

I mean, I want to soon, right? I mean, let's do a lot of those TV movies. I was going to say that was there. That was how they kept the lights on, right? Exactly.

There's like the Ted Dancin Gulliver's travels around that time.

Oh, that was a full mark.

That remember? Yeah, Ted Dancin Gulliver's travels around that time. Well, he was. He was big. He was, and you know what, Griffin, I can.

And the locations were small. I can confirm for you that the creature effects for this minicers were provided by Jim Henson's creature shop. They had a talking animatronic pig roasting on a spit. That's cool.

Cool. They had a rod puppet sea slugs sea monster. And they had, you know, good. We'll give it another shot. But I'll just fast forward to all the cool to the puppet stuff.

Puppet stuff. Last night for research. I was like, I want to watch some stuff to like get me in the. The Odyssey mood again, because that we saw the movie. What, like, three days ago.

Uh, so I watched the episode of Arthur. Where. So you retell the Odyssey. Yes. And I watched the episode of wishbone.

I was going to wishbone must have spun that tail. But it's very interesting because, okay, in the Arthur version with DW, there's none of the, like, what's happening back at Ithaca stuff. It's just DW on a boat encountering monsters. Uh, sure.

And then in the wishbone version, barely any of the monsters. It's all back at Ithaca. I really hope this was fun. Listening right now as we talk about this.

“Um, I just think it's, I think it's crazy.”

The children's media. It's the first day. Oh, yeah. What they. Oh, they still do it.

I'm sure. Gabby's doll house is done. Yes. Yeah. It's Gabby's doll house.

I just have to read this review for the 1997 miniseries that cited on Wikipedia. Because it's so. It's such a good burn. Uh, by Richard Nilsson of the Arizona Republic. Even though the made for TV movie is only four hours long,

I wasted a fifth hour stewing over how God awful it was. That's pretty good. He's saying this is, this shit was so bad. It ate into further time in my life. It wrote that additional hour of my life.

That miniseries had its own controversy at the time. Because they cast babies and Claire to play Helen of Troy. Because they had him kicking around the creature shop. And people got really upset. And that's, and that's a Muppet's reference.

Not that's a dinosaur. I didn't know his name was Baby Sinclair. I didn't know his name. I didn't know his name. But people thought he didn't have a face that would launch a thousand different.

That was the argument. I think he's handsome. He's iconic. I mean, if I call him handsome. But like, he's the one who's the baby.

He is literally the moment. You think he's currently the moment? And as proven by how quickly all three of you understood the joke,

I didn't like the joke.

Why are they called this Sinclair?

Because they're just a normal family. They should have had like a pun made. I agree. You know?

“Wait, isn't there like a Sinclair oil or like a gas station called Sinclair with a dinosaur on it?”

Oh, I think you're right. That sounds a little right. That sounds like a stretch though. No, see, well, Sinclair oil corporation fossil fuel. I'm just a reference Sinclair.

This is funny. That's really good. So I am so excited. That's too sophisticated. Okay.

Let's talk about the Odyssey. Odyssey and our screening experiences. Yes. So, okay, great. Have three different screening experiences.

Three different experiences. Three different cities. Three different regions. Three different regions. Three cities.

Wow.

Much like the Odyssey the movie.

This is an episode that spans multiple countries, multiple cities. Multiple formats. Yes. Okay. So, all right.

Well, Marie and I saw it at the AMC IMAX Lincoln Square. 70 millimeter IMAX. 70 millimeter IMAX square. I guess you can't get like a seat at like the three AM screenings in August right now. It's like right sold out for the rest of time.

We are checking our privilege.

“It was I feel enormously blessed to have had the opportunity to not only see this film”

in the director preferred format. Big old theater. But also in the best seat in the house. Of course. We have my favorite seats in the back of the house.

Near the secret bathroom. Yes. Which I really wanted to make. Yes. On the IMAX square.

Yeah. Okay. But it was 70. And you know, the the feel like the picture.

There were little little spots and.

Yeah. I like that. Oh, yeah. It was very cool. I like the texture.

Exactly. I like the texture. Yeah. Now Ben, Ben, where did you see this? I was in Chicago.

The Wendy set it. Visiting. And I went to an AMC theater in downtown Chicago. And saw this film in 70 millimeter. And at that theater, there's no catch up.

And it's all. It's like a Jardinera, right. And the pickle in your pocket. I'm doing a Chicago bed. Yeah.

There was celery. You saw inside the bean. You did in the perspective. It was a little weird. Yeah.

Right. It was a little bit of a picture. What's the deep dish version of a movie theater? Right. That the chairs are behind the screen.

It's like the whole theater is kind of like a conversation pit. Yeah. But it just goes. Yeah. Maybe it's like Ben's original picture of like the underwater upside down movie.

Right. Right. That would be good. Especially for that. Anyway.

Okay. So yeah. You were in Chicago. Yeah. And so you went to a press screening there.

Yes. Yeah. And unfortunately, I'm acts not available. They don't have an eye max. I just learned this today.

That's pretty wild. Yeah. For such a major market. I guess if they do have one, they don't do press screening there. I don't really know.

Do you know what format you saw, Ben? Was it 35? Was it a digital? You saw it in seven. Okay.

It's on a gentleman's 70. Gentlemen's 70. Yeah. Obviously. Most people around this country will not be able to see the film in like Fred's

70. Obviously, there's you know, digital I max out there and they're 70 out there. There's a lot of formats. I'm going to see it on 35 on Saturday. Where?

Nighthawk. Well, crazy. I saw.

“I think the number is there somewhere between 40 and 50 screens on the planet.”

That show it in the kind of complete preferred Nolan format. Now, I have been in Spain. Filming. And the entire country of Spain, there are only two I max screens both of which are digital. Wow.

I had purchased tickets for one of them at midnight. So I was going to see this movie at midnight on Thursday, record with you guys the next day. And then my buddy, let's say friend of the podcast. He came through a major way here. Sam Clements, who works for the picture house chain in the UK.

The great movie theater chain. I was texting with him and he said, I might be able to get you into the press event, which was at the BFI South Bank I max. The big thing one of the theater in Waterloo very, very large. One of the biggest I max screens.

Yeah. And he pulled off a miracle. His buddy David at organic publicity got me in. I had a handful of days off from filming. I, in fact, have more than a handful of days off from filming.

Yeah. Yeah. He worked. A little bit. I've been doing a lot of testing.

But a little bit of work. A little touch of work on the side. I kind of pinch those amount of work to small, topist work. How many other phrases can I appropriate here? But I got to see it at the South Bank in 70 I max, which is quite a treat.

It is, it's a, it's a fucking big ass movie. It really is. And this is Nolan's been working on this project for a decade of how much more than a decade. Almost 20 years now, because I guess it starts with Dark Knight 18 years ago,

And this is the first movie where he's gotten it up to 100%.

Right. Every single shot in this movie. I got to say this movie is epic. It is quite epic. Pretty epic.

“Regardless of what format you see it in,”

the actual fidelity of the image that has been captured is pretty fucking astonishing. Yeah. David Ehrlich, run to the pod, a friend of my life, was at the same screening as seeing the movie for the second time. He saw it in I max for the first time. And then for the second screening, he saw it in 70.

And he said he preferred it in 70, which is interesting. I think he was just making stuff up. You know, the first screening of a movie like this where it's all hyped. You're so like, you know, buzzed up watching it and it's hard to concentrate even. So the second screening you can focus on what he's doing.

Maybe that was part of it. And if he's listening right now, he should throw a wallet at himself. Yeah. He should actually. Yeah.

That's right. I'll say this.

We've all seen it one time.

Yeah. We've been fortunate enough to see it one time before release in order to get this episode out quickly. I don't think I had any like adjustment to how high my expectations were or the hype. I felt pretty settled into meeting the movie where it was at. It does feel like a lot of movie to absorb on one viewer.

Yes. Like, I feel like I'm struggling even two days later to get my head around some of it. I think the movie's at me. I'm strong as hell. Strong as hell.

Strong as hell. Yeah. You feel like you got a complete take. You was saying before we started taping, like he's got the names locked down. Yeah.

I was saying that the name's not going to match for real. All the day. And he was like, don't worry about it. We're just going to say the actor's names. And I was like, okay.

John, like, Guizam. Can I say he's my MVP in this. Well, of course, he is great. Of course, he's your MVP. He's really cool.

He's the crumbholds of the movie. I personally, and I don't know. Maybe David, you will agree with me on this.

“I think Samantha Morton is the, like, stand out, perform it.”

I mean, I, I really think that everyone in this movie is very well cast and used. But it was so nice to see people like Morton and like, was Amma who no one's ever worked with before. We're no one clearly immediately was like, that is the person. I don't need to identify like whatever a bigger star here or what, you know, what a, like a glitzier.

Like he matched the actor so perfectly. Like Guizammo in the Odyssey or like that. What? Like that doesn't automatically. And then you see it and you're like, I understand this completely.

Morton makes total set. That. That was not. I think I think they're the two MVP's. Morton, you know, we've talked about Morton a lot this year.

And on the more of her in color, so we're talking about how much in the late 90s and the early 2000s. She was seen as like one of definitively the great actresses of her generation. And she's receded a little bit.

And this just feels like Nolan wanting to remind everyone how good she is and how powerful she is.

Like as Amma, I don't feel like I've ever seen him use like this before. It's like this. This was like about this. Yeah. Unlocking new chambers for me because he's like kind of the heart of the movie.

Yeah. Yeah. He is an emotional spine of the thing who all the other characters are filtered through. I for some reason kept thinking about John Wick because Odyssey does have a John Wick vibe of like he's coming back and he's mad. Like.

I feel like everyone's going to be a friend. That's an Odyssey. Of course. Absolutely.

“Everything has been calling him and being like, do you still have my call?”

Yeah. Right. I mean, it was a little bit that where it's like. Leg was almost just playing the guy where it's like everyone agrees that this guy is reliable and wise. Like as hell.

Like that is what we turned because I'm looking at like wasamos. I mean, he works like wasamos was working. Yeah. Like what's the last time he was. It brought my beach on Wick.

Like that he was in something where I was like, oh, it's so what a great use of him. Like. I didn't see Bob Trivino likes it. Which everyone said he was really excellent. I should see.

Yeah. He's the lead of that, right? He's Bob Trivino. It's him and Barbie Ferreira. Yeah.

And Barbie Ferreira, by the way. She's having a hell of a year. She is. I'm loving Barbie Ferreira. No.

Everyone. My life seems great. Our buddy Chandler Levix. Great. That movie is so good.

Chandler. Yeah. You listen. The Canadian. I like your name.

The film explosion of 2026 is to me the big story. That's so true. Yes, Canada is everywhere right now. Let's see. He's in the new exorcist like wasamos.

Okay. I bet you he plays like a priest who's like, I don't like this. It looks like this. Gotta get to see him. You're right.

That's so true. I can see. I bet he talks out of the center of his mouth exclusively. Right down the center of his mouth. Those front teeth get in a lot of exposure.

Is he like, you know, is he taught like, should we throw him like a glitzy miniseries?

He was in an Apple TV series called Smoke, which wasn't very good. But he was in it. He was in it. It feels like he's primed though. That's a good point, David.

I feel like we got Leguzamo in like third position on an FX series.

He's like winning every award. I like. Who doesn't who's not happy to see Legs? Johnny Legs. Well, King Cooper.

Well, that's true. Although actually, I don't really know the King Cooper registered Luigi. Is the threat, did he? I mean, I can't really remember. You know, I haven't watched that film a little while.

I don't know why. But I don't really think Cooper doesn't register Luigi as a threat. I would say that's a narrative shortcoming. I would say if King Cooper does not recognize one of the two Mario Brothers as a threat at any point that movie might have some script issues.

Um, I do think I've seen the Super Mario Brothers movie several times in my life.

“I think he won't could accuse it of having script issues.”

I think that's fair. I think everyone would. Would bear that accusation with grace. He's the first one here in this. Oh, my God, what do I say here? But my finger up behind my ear.

Um, so here we are. We saw the Odyssey. So, Graf you saw it at the BFI was that nice. It's a lovely theater. I've been there in a long time, but it's very cool. It's a big old school.

It's in a circle. You got to go a little bit underground in a tunnel. Cool. Because it's like in the middle of a giant roundabout. It's like there's cars going in the middle of like a traffic circle.

Yes. And so you got to take an underpass to go into the secret chamber. Cool. That's great. See any pals there?

Um, you've got pretty else. Honey Ross, friend of the podcast. Okay. And Sam Clements was there with me. I don't think I saw anyone else.

It's fair enough. But I was I was immediately taken aback by.

“And I think I wasn't reading early responses.”

You guys had gone with Maria Brownlee. Then was seeing at the same time that I was vaguely. I'd gotten general thumbs up from people I knew. But I wasn't reading anyone's deeper thoughts. And I was taken aback immediately.

Because I was Sam some help me get into the screen. Behead already seen the movie. And there was a whole kerfuffle with me being his plus one where they wouldn't let me in without him.

So he said, I'll come and I'll sit through the first like 30 minutes again and then I'll leave.

And I said is like the opening particularly good. I was wondering, like does it have one of these classic Nolan sort of James Bond style, Dark Knight, Tenet, you open with something kind of just so fucking insane. And he was like the opening's great, but it's not like that. And the movie starts immediately.

It was just like this is not where I thought this film would start. This is not how the first hour I imagined would progress. And the structure of this movie for a guy who likes to play around with structure is so different than I was expecting. Because he doesn't diagram it. Usually when he does funny structure tricks,

it's like really set up and explained. And this movie almost immediately reminded me so much of thin red line. Hmm. Okay. Yeah.

And that it feels like it's editing based on emotions. That's interesting, Greg. So, you know, I will say the Odyssey. I'm gonna move.

“Am I the only reader of the Odyssey in the room right now?”

Not to bad. Not to Odyssey mod, anyone. I mean, I stood to poetry mod. Sure. Okay.

So you read it. I have no memory of it really. But I have brushed up a little bit and just watching some YouTube. Guys. I bought a graphic novel version of it with pictures.

Who did this graphic novel? It would be disaster if the graphic novel did. I don't know. That would be a huge mystery. Big bummer.

Gary Klein's. I was saying this. I think my wife has used this as a teaching aid because she teaches the Odyssey. Your wife teaches the Odyssey. She does.

She does.

But like, you know, the first four books of the Odyssey are from telemicous

is perspective. They do have this kind of prologue kind of, like, where's Odysseus? Right. Like son of Odysseus, we should say. Telemicous is the son of Odysseus.

And he is played by Tom Holland in the film. Guys, notice that? Yes. Peter Parker himself. Nathan Drake himself.

Uh, did you guys see the video of Tom Holland and Matt Damon doing a, like, John get thing where they had to guess. Make a pizza. I did not see the one man to make pizza. What did they have to guess?

Which of their films? By just the colors of the frames. You ever see the movie let's thing or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a fun game. It's tough to put those two filmographies next to each other. Well, that was what was really fucking fun. Right. Damon has like eight masterpieces.

So it's like, okay. So, is this movie the departed interstellar? Yeah. One of the 14 soda burg movies I made. And Tom Holland's like, is this chaos walking?

No, for Tom Holland. They gave some free spot. There's three Spider-Man movies. Yeah.

They all fucking look the same. I wouldn't be like, it was so sad. I felt so bad. He's this.

“I mean, I think the last city is he is my favorite movie.”

He's in love with that film. Yeah. But then I think this is a, this is a, a huge challenge. I don't see anything else in this filmography. That would really vault up the list here.

Is that wild? Yeah. I mean, obviously no way home was so fucking humongous.

And was, you know, one of the first in a series of movies

that saved Hollywood after the pandemic. Right. And it got a little race by top gun in Maverick and, uh, top in Maverick and Barbie and up in the family. Yeah.

Some of the movies. Some of them. Yeah. And he's been a little silent. And I think there's been a couple years for all of us to stroke

our chains and be like, is he juiceless? Like, where the fuck does his career go at this point? Especially because everything he tried to do outside of Spider-Man really didn't work. And yet, he's about to be the undisputed king of the summer box off.

It's true. He's about to have a few mungus fucking summer. He's going to have a huge, it's just July. King, he's July. He's a, it's solid.

He could have only dreamed of the kind of July he's had. That's so true.

“I, uh, I think he was very well cast in this movie.”

Yeah.

I thought he was well deployed in this way.

I think he's, you know what? I'm going to give him as far as thing. He's good in the film. I know some people are like, ah, and I just sort of felt like Tom Hollandey to me. But no, I think he,

No, I think he's good. I think he really under, he's really, he's good at playing someone who needs to learn, like, and mature and grow. Like, and I'm not saying that is it. Yes.

No, the problem with him is going to be the, can he ever age into anything. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't know. I'm seeing an interview.

I like, I think this will be the last time I'm kind of playing a kid. And I was like, maybe. I know, I know that he is 30. He is 30. I cannot believe that he is 30.

He do. Now, do you have a baby face? But he reminded me a lot of his loss city is that performance.

Like, it just, you know, like, there's that John Molini joke of.

I'm sober, which I know is surprising to people because I look like someone who hasn't done anything before. Right. He's like, I'm sitting in a room and he's all tears. Yes.

Right. A lot of this Odyssey Spider-Man promo tour has been Tom Holland pushing bureau. His non alcohol. Oh, yes.

Your alternative. Yeah. And that's another thing where you're like, I can't believe you're old enough to be sober now. I'm happy for him that he's so happy.

He's got whatever equilibrium he desires or whatever. But yes, it is interesting. But he reads as perpetually 16. Yeah. He does.

He does. Which is why he's in this role in which literally the point is that he is not of age yet. Yes. Yes. The point of the Odyssey is like, you are just just a son.

You're a strong young man. But you cannot inherit his throne yet. So I got to keep weaving this fucking thing until he comes back. Can I say what? Thank you for your service.

How about you sit here in the corner and you do your thing. And we're just going to wait on that day, man, to come back. David, yes. You hear that? Uh, yes.

“You're wondering who's that knocking at your door, right?”

I have no idea. Well, it's awesome. Of course. Because Blank Trek is returning to the bellhouse of place. Famous for having a door.

That price is low as he would do. Watch the door. There he goes. I guess. We will be live Friday, October 16th at 730 at the bellhouse in Berkland, New York.

You can join us for a night of pure cinema. Oh, that was a close one. Yeah. Yeah. You've got the name.

Right, right. David is doing the Marty meme. Which is almost as good as the whale face because that's sort of the theme of our live show. Yes. We'll be joined by some special guest.

Let's discuss the man with the Marty for an episode accompanying our mini series on the film's March. Chris Sezi. Uh, more details to be revealed. But it'll be.

It'll be, of course, Sezi adjacent in some way or other. It'll be a Marty Palooza. You tickets will go on sales of the general public Thursday, July 23rd at noon. Eastern Time. For more information, go to the bellhouse and why.com/show.

Thank you for your support. I know. I don't know where I'm going to go. Because as a star, a star is just a star. Is it easy?

Of course, everything is automatic. Is it long? No, just a little bit. No, then. I'm going to go back now with this star.

It's on 31st July. So the Odyssey. Uh, it is a film. Director of a Christmas and it does begin with Travis Scott. Uh, the great Travis Scott, a friend of Christopher Nolan's right there.

Best Buds.

Don't they like send each other gifts and shit? They are friendly. Yes. Because Travis Scott had a song in tenet. I feel like that was there.

That was their initial. And he's got the end credits song in this. And, and, you know, it begins with him trying, you know, he's going to sing the song of Odysseus.

“And it's clearly Nolan, like taking you by the shoulders and being like, you have to understand that this storytelling form exists now and has just evolved.”

Like, has just changed. And like, but he's like, it's a real mission statement moment for him where he's just like, this is still what we do. We tell like stories through verse to each other. It's so good. I was so startled by it.

The first five minutes of the movie played in front of another movie, is that true?

No, no, no, no, no. The prologue, which I saw is the Trojan sequence, which is much later in this. Okay. Because I really tried not to see a ton of marketing for this movie. Like, I saw the teaser trailer.

Whatever it was where Tom Holland was like, my dad's coming home or whatever. And I saw that. And I was like, this doesn't look good to me. But I'm so I'm not going to watch anything else because I trust Christopher Nolan and you want to see it in context. I want to see it in context.

But then I know that I don't know what movie they put it in front of. And I'm actually some people would get to see the prologue. You could see it if you bought a ticket to an iMac. So I saw it. I bought a ticket to the sinners.

We released just to watch it. Okay. It was also in front of one battle.

“I think, you know, we're, I can't remember.”

Like it was, it was the fall of it was like a little sizzle real basically.

Okay. So it was not like the first five. It wasn't like Dark Knight Rises where it was truly just like, let's watch the opening. Because I too was genuinely shocked that the movie, the first shot of the movie is Travis Scott.

Yes. Saying same. Oh, oh, muse. And so I was like, oh, people did people know this was coming if they saw the preview. Oh, I'll also say a, a,

a same claimants of picture house aforementioned goes to like the European equivalence of cinema con. And he said that a month or two ago they showed what they said was the opening of the movie. And it was very different than this. It was constructed differently.

So it feels like they've been, the editing of this movie feels very free flowing. I could see this reading a thing that he kept iterating on until the last second. But to your point of the Travis Scott thing, and the stupid controversies that existed around this movie,

“which Nolan very wisely didn't really weigh in on until recently he had to do the press tour.”

And then I thought he put it perfectly, which is, you know, a lot of people were complaining that there were things in the trailers and the posters and fucking whatever that seemed to modern or too casual or didn't seem historically accurate. And this is partially a trap of Nolan's own making and that his fans have come to build this sort of mythology around him of being like the guy who takes everything the most seriously,

whereas that has never been his thing.

There's always been silliness in his movies. There's always been flights of fancy and stylization in his movies. He is a literal minded guy in a certain kind of way, but it doesn't mean that he's a guy who just is like nothing but the fax man. And he said, you know, so much of what people consider to be accurate in these types of movies

is based on iteration of theatrical traditions of how we tell these stories. These things like that we like to think of of people speaking in Shakespearean accents in a certain language is like a theatrical form that we use to connotes seriousness that is put on epics like this. And as you said, this movie is starting out and being like, this is the tradition that this is in.

And we're going to translate this into something that feels urgent to you. Right now, a modern audience rather than trying to gloss it up in some sort of sense of seriousness. Right. And then you almost immediately go to the beaches with the horse.

Right, and you sort of do it's basically like he's starting to tell the story. Yeah, he's going to be the only page getting pinned to the horse. But then what is an epinelty and half the way is like, no, I don't want to hear the fucking story. His point is it's like, we've been in the story. Enough of this. We've been seeing the song of Odysseus for so long,

but where is he? If we heard he did this, where then why hasn't he come back? If they won. Other guys came back. Where's my husband? Right. The other guys.

The other guys. And Malkwell and Mark Walberg came out. Odysseus is on a beach with Charlie Stheran. And, you know, send help vibes, obviously. Nice work if you can get it vibes.

I love when she wears that little like fishnet thing. Yeah. And I was like, that's so contour. She's the catch of the day. She really is.

David, she's the catch of the day. I understand what you're saying. I would just say what actually is the catch of the day. She got him. Well, that's what I call his name.

She's been seen his as lotus. You know, he really likes that lotus flower. It doesn't look that pretty. It didn't look that appetizing. It doesn't look feeling.

It about how it feels. I understand. I could use some lotus sometimes.

Well, I mean, once in a while you got a lotus night.

Yeah. You know, you need to pull a paddle. Yep. Or two. Mike White.

He could use the lotus.

“He could use, I think he's got more than enough.”

He should share the lotus. He should you're right. He should share the lotus. I don't know. Just try to figure out a white lotus joke.

Can Mike White share the lotus, please? Just share the lotus, Mike White. Just share the lotus, Mike White. Did I just saw something that he wrote? What was it?

Oh, yeah.

He has a writing credit on that one.

And on three, maybe he's got him on two of them. Am I right? Let's find out. He also wrote migration. He wrote migration.

He has no other opinion credits. But of course he wrote the emoji movie. That's, okay, there we go. Which is not illumination, but I lump in in my mind. And he did write pitch perfect three.

And no others. Yes, weird. We both were watching through all the despicable me and minions movies and anticipation of minions and monsters simultaneously. Yes. And it was very funny for you and I to check in with each other and be like, yep.

Still don't like these very much. Not. Anyway, I like the two more to watch.

Right, yeah, no, but they never really got me those earlier ones.

See, you were like way out on grew and really in on the minions. And I'm a little bit in on grew and I'm not that in on the minions. And both of us were just like, not my cup of tea. Some stuff I like. Anyway, don't like grew.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I grew. I grew. I grew.

And you know who I really like. Grace Mom. No. Oh, grew's wife, Lucy, who is her own person who has a lipstick taser. And I think is quite veteran.

Yeah, she's okay. Played by Kristen wig. I'm glad she's cash in the check.

“Some kind of everyone's cash in their checks, you know?”

That's the right deposit on that one. Right. And when taking the time to run those to the bank. No. They're doing mobile deposit or at at worst.

They're taking the photo on their phone. Do you think that the Cyclops in Christopher Nolan's version of the audience? Would have been harmed by stepping on a Lego in the way that the Cyclops and the minions version of the Odyssey was? It's, I mean, that whole sequence would be over in two minutes. If Odysseus had thought to carve a Lego block.

Mm-hmm. That's all he needed to do. The minions have the answer. Henry and James. I wanted to bring up that we see Elliot Page whose character is--

Sinon? Sinon? Yes. And the horse so early. Because this movie feels very haunted by the horse. The horse is very forward in the marketing. It's on the poster. They've been putting the horse up outside of theaters.

There's a horse popcorn bucket. And I assumed, oh, there's probably a big horse set piece. But that's not the main story that Nolan wants to tell is just the hiding in the horse. But this movie keeps cutting back to the horse as like this thing that fucking haunts Odysseus. Yes.

That the thing that he's most known for, what has seen us as greatest triumph,

“he can kind of never get over what feels like the dishonesty of it?”

Yes. So this is, I would say, the brilliant conceit of this movie. And it's clear that Nolan, you know, is like, okay, I'll do the Odyssey. He's sitting in his car. He's not having a smartphone and he's like, perhaps the Odyssey.

But like, the Odyssey is the original great tale of Western storytelling or whatever. But like, it is not something that you can locate emotion in easily. And, but it is, if you read the Odyssey, it is obsessed with hospitality. Like, that's a huge part of the poem. The idea, the ancient Greek notion of hospitality.

And, you know, they call it Zeus's law here. You know, this sort of like, be kind to, you know, welcome a stranger to your home. And, like, you know, any simple beggar might actually be your co-host in disguise over exactly. Exactly. And might have wonderful Seth Bokas.

Basial hair and all that. And it's a simple idea because, like, both the Iliad, which is also by Homer, quote unquote, you know, we don't really, you know, the, and the Odyssey. Those things are not like, and we really fucked Troy over. Like, those things are like, it rocks when we smash Troy to pieces.

And you're like, great, you know, you're so, but like, it's very simple for Nolan, but it's very clever for him to be like, it's kind of fucked up. Yeah. You know, we, we, we, you know, kind of lied our way in there. And then we sacked the city and, and the life of a bunch of soldiers in a horse.

And to make this, this sort of like notion of like, Odysseus, right, is weighted with the guilt of like, we did kind of defy the gods by doing that. Yeah. And like, we are the ones who maybe have contributed to the feeling that society is ending around us.

Like, I was just a social contract.

I kind of can't believe he pulled that off in, in this movie. Much like Oppenheimers is the same way right where it's very haunted by like the world we live in now. Oppenheimer made the terrible world we live in now. He didn't mean to.

“He was just mashing bits together in his, who is a particle accelerator or whatever, right?”

You know, and fucking everyone s wives. Nolan movies because he has become the guy at the top of the mountain. He has become the person who represents filmmaking globally, sort of as an idea. And certainly as an industry. And now is literally also the president of the DGA.

A guy at his level of career rarely takes on an elected position like that. Except it feels like he's like, there's too much at stake. And my people need me and I have to fight for them. All of his movies have increasingly become about two things. One, I am the only one who can do this.

The burden is heavy on me, but I must do this for everyone else. Two, what have I done? Oh, sweet Jesus, what have I done? And this is a movie about a guy who's like, I need to do this for everybody else. And the final shot of the movie is literally the shadow of the Trojan horse.

It's like he cannot get out from under that shadow.

It's one of the first things we see in the shadow, the silhouette is the last thing we see.

You know, it's, it's beautiful stuff. Do you guys know about the sea people theory of Bronze Age collapse? Can I very briefly?

“Well, the sea, that's like what they were talking about.”

The sea people that were ruining everything. You know, so sort of during the late Bronze Age, all of the major civilizations in the Mediterranean basically collapsed and no one knows why. Because it was so freaking long ago. So we can't really.

We're talking like the, well, century BC or whatever. And the lead to the first dark age. Right, not the lovely dark age. We like to think about which is like, you know, whatever. Like the eighth century and people rattling, you know,

I don't know, carts and stuff. What do people do in that dark? We're in big rattle carts. Yeah, often blood into a ration where. But like the right, the old old dark age.

And one of these notions is like the sea people. Like it's like an academic theory that like these kingdoms were done in by invaders. And no one knows who are even why or except for it. But like, and I just love Nolan picking on on that. And having that be this like looming threat in the movie.

And then, of course, at the end, it's like, well, we are. We're the, you know, we're the real civilization. Like going to do a stupid war that sucked for no good reason. And then returning home to like, you know, like places, you know, our homes were in turmoil and like with civility gone.

And everyone at each other's throats and getting stabbed. Right. I also think yes. And within that framework, you realize that the big set pieces of the Odyssey as a story are mostly about them being bad guests. It's like we just got to get home and they landed in a different place and come across a different creature.

And just kind of her shitty house guests over and over and over again. There's that early moment where they show up on some beach. And the guys have like burned their houses and in a bad mood. And yeah, Mr. Tell is like, we're Greeks. Like, we're, we're not threatening.

Like, you know, you know, he's like in armor and as it's so good. Yeah. Why are you scared of us in the guys? Fuck you see people. Leave me alone.

Let's clarify. They pull up their whole town is on fire. He's like, why? He's like, we saw people coming. We thought we just get this over with.

Like, rather than let you burn us to the ground, we'll burn ourselves down. That's the level of paranoia and exhaustion everyone's at. Uh, yes. Um, but okay. So let me, let me try and unpack the, uh, the flow of the story here.

So yes.

The first bit, obviously, it's just we're in Africa.

We're with telemicus. Penelope is in a bad mood. I was just, I was really impressed by how country. And halfway. What's in this role?

She's great. She's a bit. What did you text about? I would find it the other day because we wanted this very well. Uh, someone, someone was noting what a busy year she's having.

Six movies. Is it six? I'm going to look at it. Mother Mary. Devil were as proud of two.

Yep. The Odyssey. Oak Street. Oak Street. Oak Street.

“And I believe there's one more that I am forgetting.”

No, it's just five. It's just five. It's just five. There's a map called Alone at Dawn that's a Ron Howard movie. Yes.

And Adam Driver. But I'm not sure if we know when that's coming out. It'll, it'll come out eventually.

She seems like a slacker.

I said, and halfway is a gift to Hollywood that we should always be thankful for.

And I certainly believe that. The range of just even the three movies she's had out so far is pretty astonishing. Well, it's also interesting because like, it's only an halfway. It had. She's been working like it's like she didn't like go dark.

But it was the size of the movies had trunk a little bit. Yeah, and like after Oceans eight, which she's great in, but that even that's a supporting role or whatever. You know, she's got that weird serenity, the hustle dark waters year where like we love serenity. But it's, it's a weird one. The hustle was filmed like seven years prior.

Right. Dark water is a wonderful movie, but she's kind of just showing up to help. She's light. Yeah, yeah, yes, as you said, that was a tax deductible. Last thing he wanted disaster.

Right.

“Last thing he wanted is one of those movies where you're like, did they forget to finish it?”

Mm-hmm. Like, sorry. Right. That movie. The witches obviously was five stars a plus.

We love that one on blank check. But all these movies are in one of two categories. She tried something smaller and more interesting and it worked or it didn't. Or a real failed attempt at a major movie. So the stuff that's doing that's good is not really at the center of the culture.

And the stuff that's attempting to be at the center of the culture is not working. But then like, you know, locked down, we're going to give everyone a pass on that one. The pandemic did happen. Right. Are we getting time again?

She's great. But it does. It's a little bit again kind of like, I'm here to help this movie along. We're not. And then I believe I did like it didn't really go on there.

So good. She's actually smiling. I did not see the Rebecca Miller film she came to me. No, which is her and Dinklage. And who's the other?

It's a Tome. Oh, Marsa Tome. Hey.

“And then, and then there was the mother's curse or whatever that movie is called.”

Right. Her very kind of like trashy 2024 of mothers instinct and the idea of you. The idea of you is good. No, it's not. Yes, it is.

It is good. She's good in it. I respect her that movie is not good. Well, that movie that movie is good. Sure.

The boy band in it. Good. Was a streaming hit. It was a big streaming hit. I don't think Michael Schallelter is capable of of a telling a story.

Like that with sincerity. Because you don't, you know, set up put on a show world. You know what? I found it. Sometimes he does.

I found it very sincere. I liked when they were in their hotel room. Kind of like kissing and dancing to dance all days. Yeah. There you go.

But you were saying basically last year she was quiet because a lot of her 25 movies

got pushed back to the right mother Mary got pushed to early. Yeah, right. And the street got pushed. Yeah. And wait for whatever the heck that is.

I know this is kind of her big center stage year. And I love that it's such an array of even different sized roles and different styles of performance. She's so kind of stripped down in this. Yeah. But she's really just sort of laser focused.

Yeah. And she's not doing any the theater kid stuff that people sometimes burst a lat.

“And I think it's it's why she's so good and why as you put it.”

She's a gift to Hollywood because it's like she's like an old school movie star who can do any type of thing. She really is. And, you know, like the scenes she has the flashbacks with Damon before he goes to war are really like simple and beautifully done and get all the emotion across very fast. I'll say fucking sexy.

Yeah, sexy. But like you have very little time to establish a sense of genuine chemistry between those two characters. And you're doing it late into the film and immediately you're like, there's heat here. Yeah. There's a reason why she's not remarrying.

Yeah, no for sure. Yeah, me look. Robert Pattinson is a handsome fellow. Okay. I wouldn't fucking marry this asshole, right?

Would you? This guy. This guy. Are we, are we, can we say he's an asshole? He's an asshole.

He is so good.

I just love that he is always game.

Like, you know, that he's not like whatever. Like looking for the sympathetic role or looking for the, you know, like he just wants to play little slimy freaks and he's so good at it. Announce that Batman is being pushed back another six months and people are ringing their hands over it. And I'm like, there is no better outcome than Robert Pattinson having six years in between Batman movies.

To do whatever we should he wants to do. Batman is the ultimate hammock in between. He's just given latitude to do whatever because they go like as long as you promise you're going to put that cowl back on. We'll let you put your worms. And he's got five movies in this year too.

He's got he's having a crazy year. Okay, wait. So it's this. Yeah. It's prime time.

Yeah, which I hear is great. It's the drama. And then the other two are.

Right. One we just got a trailer for. Yeah. And then what's the fifth movie? It's the Fernando Merrill film.

Here comes the flood with him and Denzel Washington. Oh, he looks like thriller, but does sound very cool. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

So he's all over the place. And he's doing different voices and he's having fun. He's being a little sick. And he is yeah. He's the lead suitor here.

He likened the character two James Woods character. Lester Diamond from the 1995 film Casino. Which we'll be talking about soon. Just a plastic rubber Pattinson pull to like read the Odyssey and go like, You know what this character's like.

James Woods and Casino. You've also got the great Corey Hawkins is like. There's the main two suitor jerks. Yeah. He's sort of the right hand man.

I think he's just a total fucking jam. He's always good. Lovely Corey Hawkins. Yes. Yeah. He's not working enough.

No. And then Logan Marshall Green and Miyagaf are the two kind of Gremot worm tongues of the palace. Right. She is like this. She's the servant to Penelope.

Yes.

“I think it's unspoken in the movie, but they are twins.”

They're their siblings. Look at Marshall Green and Miyagaf. And then in the myth of the Odyssey. Yes. They're the bad servants.

They're not being, they're not, you know, Tending to Odysseus's flock. Now who is like wasamo? Like wasamo. Holden the stain.

Being blind. He can see more clearly than everyone. There's there is a bit of a, you know, There's an irony there. It's true.

I have a real iron. So a little rude for him to throw a dog off a cliff. What is the stop of the movie? David and I were concerned.

One of the first things we said after we got out of the movie is we are worried.

How Ben was going to take the dog violence in this film. Yes. The kind of thing that does turn Ben off completely. Yes. Sometimes.

“But I think because he did it like so early in the film.”

It felt like just pulling the band-aid off. And then of course they treat the other dog Odysseus dog really well. Even though he's like old and sad. Yeah. I think they also, the, the inhumanity of how the animals are treated is used as a dramatic storytelling tool for the rot of society.

Yes. It is, is not something that is done callously. It's not using it just a shock you. No, no, not at all. No, it's, it's, I think all the stakes of the, they are like,

Because yes, there's the argument for like shouldn't we shoot this movie out of a can. Shouldn't we start with something really exciting? And it's like, now you just sort of, It's not just that you want to go home. Your like his home is like ruined without him.

Like it's like he's starting with there's a band of this. You have missing and it's just like, yeah. It's, it's ruined. Just what the story is really about. Right.

The fact that this guy's fucking gone. And there are like two main sort of narrative or storytelling devices.

I guess the first is Tom Holland hearing stories about him.

You know, he's not, he was a baby. He was a baby when he left. When he left. So he is traveling and hearing stories from other people. Most notably John Bernthal.

Let me tell you something. You've done it. Like the fifth season of serial and pulling off stories together from his dad to get a good narrative going. And then the other, on the other end, we have Matt Damon with Colipso played by Charlie's. Therein.

And she is kind of goating him to remember how he ended up. How did I get here? What happened to my men?

“That was what being like, do you really want to remember?”

Doesn't remember to see it. Doesn't it suck here? Have some more lotus baby? Yeah. Take some lotus.

We're, right. We're sort of like trying to put the pieces together of like what happened? Where is men? What happened? Why does he, why hasn't he come home?

And then I feel like the fur, then we, we do find, you know, okay. What do you remember?

We do finally get to them.

Like getting on the boat. And I guess is the first place they go back to the, you know, the Cyclops, right? Like that's the first or major sequence. The first major set piece in the end. But we also established what life was like back on Ithaca before Odysseus left.

The meat, young Robert Pattinson and young Elliot Page. That's what you're going to say. Yes. Which set that's up on. You know, a very upsetting dynamic of what is Pattinson's character's name again?

Uh, it's like an Antonio's, or whatever, Antonias, he's, yeah. Yes. And the, the volunteering, Marie. Right. And, and Tinius, and Tinius, maybe.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I know.

Every time every time I watch something where it's like little boys going off to war.

This also happens in Horusio Hormlore. And in, um, mastering commander, I just get very upset. Well, I think it shouldn't happen. But they're drawing sticks and the drawing lots. Yeah.

Yeah. Short stick gets you on the boat. Yeah. Odysseus cousin. Synon.

Draws. Elliot Page. Elliot Page. Draws. Whatever.

The stick. That means that he has to go to war. Right. And they say there's a lottery draft going on. They need to build an army.

It's a lottery draft. And Synon gets picked. Who is a very small child. Yes. And the Pattinson character sort of volunteers to go.

And it's dead. Not just out of some generosity.

“But also because of, I think, an ego of wanting to be a big tough boy.”

He's a little older. He's a teenager. And Odysseus puts his foot down and goes like, it's got to be who's chosen. And also says to the Pattinson character. No, no, no.

And Tony, you know, it's Pattinson draws the short stick. Synon is put in his place. Right. Oh, okay. Yeah.

The point is that Antonio's ducked the draft. Correct. Okay. He's giving the lot back to him. Yes.

Okay. This is your chain. Yes. I also didn't get that. Right.

Like Antonio's is the, I think, you know, the richer. Because he is like one of the big wigs or his family right on. Ethica. What a series. Yeah.

But the little or guy.

And like they're saying that Odysseus basically kind of knew what was happening.

And overlooked it or like didn't put his foot down because like he knows, like he doesn't want to wound the pride of the parents. Like they say. And this will all be helpful on rewatch. I will say. Because like this information, it's the classic Nolan thing of this information is being like hydraulically delivered to you.

Yeah. Voice over and flash back and you're like, okay. Okay. And you can tell like it's the Nolan thing where he's like this will matter later. You need to know all the context.

The happens in like the first 10 minutes. Very early on. You barely met the characters. We have not met the characters and I did not even totally track that, you know, that's synone had become, you know, Elliot Page had grown up to. Right.

Because like as almost as something to the effect of, you know, he, he needed to do things to help the ego.

“And basically Odysseus says this thing of, no, it's actually good if you stay because you need to watch after.”

You're a family and watch after my family as well, which kind of poisons him with the idea of. Oh, I have a responsibility to watch your family. I should probably fuck your wife if you disappear. That's kind of the implication, isn't it? You know, but that's he goes message received.

I got it. So if you're gone for like five years, I should start trying to fuck your wife. Maybe Greek law should have some rules on this. Okay. Maybe there should be time limits.

Yeah. But okay, so, but now we're with Odysseus and it's post Troy. We still haven't really seen the sack of Troy, but we've seen little glimpses of the horse and all that. Uh, and the horse looks so good. It's really pretty.

It's really awesome. It's awesome. And he sees, you know, Agamemnon played by Benny Saffty in this crazy imposing armor. Nolan wanted him to, he has what's it called. It's called Black Bronze and a sulfur in his armor, which Nolan was like these were like the most expensive sort of.

Materials back then. So we wanted him to have this. He's got a gold spine on the back of it. So hello. He's so funny that it's Benny Saffty.

It's not. He's not good. He is good. We never see his face. Not really.

We see his beautiful hair. Yes. I mean, we see his face through a slit. We see the, yeah. It is interesting, though, that that was the main like one of the main posters for the film.

Right. Was the back of Agamemnon's head? Yeah. I remember how much he kind of just likes that imagery and how much it is that like much like the shadow of the horse. The sort of like image of Agamemnon's armor without ever seeing the guy inside represents this force that's pushing everything along.

Right. I mean, and, you know, I interviewed Benny Saffty last year. I told you this, Marie. Yes. And he had just finished the Odyssey and I was like, who are you playing?

And I just assumed he was going to be playing some weirdo. Like, of course, Saffty is going to play. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Like a weird little trickster or, you know, right like a, a mean suitor.

And he was like, I can't tell you. But I, we were just in Iceland like shooting on this like black beach is what he could to end then obviously that's the like. Okay. That was another, that was another favorite sequence in the movie. This is really great.

You've never seen his face. It's like the idea of him looms so large and most directors I think would go.

“Oh, so then what you should cast in this role is either a stunt performer because this is mostly going to be physical.”

It's going to be who fills the suit or cast a guy with a voice like Clancy Brown because it's mostly going to be booming voice if you're not going to see their face.

Yeah, and his also like a sensitivity guy.

But Saffty is, I will say, he's very tall. He's like six one and he has this great hair and maybe Nolan just kind of liked the physical. I appreciate it. I think, you know, you guys bring this up. You brought this up a lot in the Peter Weir series, the casting for the final color. Yeah. And I do think that when we get the backstory of what happened to him and when he is in Hades and he is speaking from, you know, from the dead. Right.

There is like a pathos to it. Yes.

“It really got to me and you need to be able to unravel this guy. You need to be able to strip away the sort of imagery and the mythology of him to get to a sort of broken person inside.”

Yeah. So I'm not really a big ancient Greece person and I was asking David Sims on the subway home from the movie. I was like, I want to keep living in this world. So like, what movies should I watch next? Oh, I wasn't even thinking movies. I was going to suggest a time machine.

That seems a little expensive. But sure. You know, I did pay $4.99 to rent Troy on Amazon.

I want to talk about this briefly.

I'm very confused by this recent holding up of Troy as the group standard. Griffin. Griffin, we got to get into it. That movie is fucking dog shit. I hadn't seen it until like this week when I read watched it after the Odyssey, which is a masterpiece. And there is, you know, it's a, the, the Iliad is part one, the Odyssey part two.

You know, so it's like a pretty cool lot of the same characters are in there. What the fuck? It's going on there. Hello movie in my memory. Right. I hated it when it came out. I thought it was a bomb.

People didn't like it when it came out. Not bad reviews. It made money. It made money. It made money hit. But it got no serious.

Yeah, it got no Oscar attention after like, you know, in a perm up because of movies like Gladiator.

People were like, maybe this will be a epic, you know. And I pointed out to you is the same year as Alexander. There were two like giant budget swings at like great.

“Well, if Gladiator wins best picture, what other like epic can we do it?”

And they did the most of, they did the Iliad and they did Alexander to the great. Like they did the most obvious, once possible. Both of those movies are flawed. Troy made a lot of money, but sucks. Alexander didn't make enough money, but is very interesting in my opinion.

And then they both have the director's cut DVD read it. Like I fixed it and you're like, no. Yeah. I'm not sure that you, I mean, the big problem with Troy. It's the ultimate pit thing of like he sucks at this.

Yeah. He's so good at playing squarely weirdo. He's actually not good at playing the hero. The alpha. Yeah.

That's not what he likes. It's also that's his cat in the hat. He has to make that movie because he pulled out of the fountain. Warner Brothers were like, you fucking owe us a movie.

“And he was like, oh, do I have to do some movie starship?”

He's really blond in it. I remember looking great. I wasn't into it. Yeah. But the thing that was really sending me at like watching it immediately after the Odyssey was that Brian Cox.

Yes. Playing Agna Memong. He is Agna Memong. Yes. Very similar to Benny Safti.

Wow. These are two very, very different interpretations of this character. Brendan Gleesley's Manileus. Yeah. And who plays the Dissis?

Sean B. Sean B. He's the best part of the movie. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't even remember that well. But I just remember being like it's all surface level. It feels like an impression of a type of movie. It's a type of epic that actually has ideas within it. And it's only absorbed the aesthetic.

The ideas that are in Troy are not ideas about like man and psychology. They're more like mapping like political and historical ideas of war on theory, a myth, which is not that interesting to me. I agree with you. I don't find more interested in the interiority, which is what the Odyssey is. It's like it's such a psychological story while also being really epic visually.

It's why I related this to thin red line is a your perspective character is changing a lot throughout the movie. And be it feels like you're often kind of editing laterally through the character's memories and thoughts and feelings. It is so much trying to find a way to put you in the inner life of these people rather than zooming out and turning it into mythology.

So Dave, I got to ask since we're talking about the Iliad and how that story then relates to the Odyssey.

“How do you feel about them not really including a lot of the gods in this story in this film?”

We really only get so many of Zeus and his law on Poseidon. And Poseidon. We only really see Athena. So the thing in the Odyssey, the story is, for example, one of the important moments in the Odyssey is that Odysseus stuck on the island of eclipse. In this movie, he has this emotional realization of like,

I'm ready to go home. I'm accepting the loss of my men, right? You know, it's this big. In the Odyssey, Hermes, the messenger god shows up and is like, Hey, down to go. Yeah.

And this is like, oh fuck, okay. He's like, come on. Both this way. That happens a lot in the poem.

The god show up in the like totally.

I mean, even the reason that Helen ends up in Troy is because of intervention from the gods. Right. And so obviously that's a little dramatic. Not going to, you know, that won't work. It totally makes sense.

You know, he made that choice. It's just when you go back to the source material. I mean, especially in the Iliad. It's like, the like, the church or not the cause or, you know, are all kind of connected and Zeus sees a lady and it's like,

Okay. I don't want to fuck this thing. Yeah. Turn into a stone and fuck her. She has eggs and that one of the children that come out of the eggs is hell.

Can I do a tiny little Merck spotlight?

Look at what they were given out of the screen. Oh, you got the pen. Oh, you got the Athena pin. I got the one too. Oh, we didn't get it.

I got the Athena. You got the Athena. They had the Athena in the horse, but you could only take one. I tried to take two and I got yelled at very loudly. Well, the Athena pen feels like that would be my pick because the pen itself is such a.

“It's actually a important part of the movie.”

It was before the movie, but I had a feeling this is closer to the movie object. Because I was like in my pen. Penelope. It gives this pen to Odysseus as a way of remembering her, but also as a symbol to prove that it is him. Yes.

I saw in our seller again last week David. Yes. It was just playing in 70 millimeter in Spain. They're ever just rolling out the two weeks. The classics, right?

Yes. And you said that's a smart rewatch. You have a feeling these two movies are going to be really perfect. And the way it shows. Yes.

Nolan loves his. I feel so bad for leaving. How do I get back home? Kind of movie. Yeah.

I need to get back to my family. I need to get back to my wife. I need to get back to my wife. He's so traumatic. But he works with his wife.

I know. I just feel like he had. It's like clearly this thing that ran. You know, because like so many of his movies have that. Well, yeah.

Less about the way that he runs his life as an adult and husband and his father. But more of what he experiences a child when his family was split up.

“I think it's 50% that and I think informed by that.”

It is his worst nightmare. It's the reason he works with his wife and he makes everything a family production. It's because he can imagine no worse fate than being stuck on a shoot for six months away from his family. Like he is just such an ultimate wife and family guy that he needs that unit around himself. And so if he's writing an emotional story of a challenge, it's the biggest challenge he can imagine in so many ways.

Which is why, you know, people go "Why is he so obsessed with the dead wife thing?" I like that he has moved away from dead wives. And has found a way to tell stories about man longing for their wives that did not require them to be dead. But that scene is so fascinating because the dialogue, even though it's a very different scene where she hands him the pen, feels so similar, having watched it recently, to the final child morph scene of like, "I'm coming back. I'm coming back."

When are you coming back? I can't tell you, but I'm coming back. I just promise you that I'm coming back. Yeah, I mean, I think Chris Vral and is by and large a term to man who leaves a little lead to a wonderful life and he knows that. He's got a great thing going on. But that's clearly the fear that drives him a little bit or whatever keeps him up at night, I guess. I mean, he's very similar to Shyamalan in my opinion in this regard.

He's just so concerned with the world-releaving our children with what the future is going to look like for his family. And he can blow it out to big, epic, sought-scale, but it's, you know, it's what makes these movies tick. The key difference between him and Shyamalan is obviously that Nolan is not very concerned with what if the devil was an elevator. Other than that, not yet. No, we're saying he wants to do a horror movie.

Yes, I'm not Shyamalan produced thriller. That would be the greatest movie in the history of movies. I saw Logan Marshall green on the set of the Odyssey and we started talking about devil and I said, "Who has the rights to devil?" And he said, "I have them. They cost one dollar." You can have them right now for one whole dollar.

Who directed devil? Because it wasn't Shyamalan. It wasn't Shyamalan. What else is he done? He did the remake of the Spanish film wreck quarantine. Quarantine.

Yeah. He did the Pekipsy tape, which is one of those like fucked up tiny budget horror movies that everyone talks about.

Yeah, that's kind of never got a proper release.

Right. And then he did as above so below. Oh, sure, that's the Catacombs movie. Yeah, and then something called no escape. Oh, yeah, that's like, that is like Owen Wilson is stuck in a country that's having like some sort of like political uprising.

Yeah. It's Owen Wilson trying to do behind enemy lines again. It's like straight survival action. Yes. Except for a family there.

Yeah. The Athena pen is handed to Odysseus as a, if I can't stop you from leaving, then let Athena watch after you. Which does feel like talking about Nolan imagining his worst nightmares. It's like handing him a smartphone. It's saying if you're going to leave him be away for a really long time, at least take this pen.

So Athena can pop in and talk to you all the time.

“It is such an incredible display of Christopher Nolan's cloud that you're like, what is in day a play in this movie?”

Zindaya plays Athena a theme of the god watching over Odysseus. She shows up at certain times over his shoulder and gives him a look and says like one line. Is Zindaya as an actor is really, really good at doing like disappointed face? Unbelievable at it. When she makes that face, I'm like, I feel bad.

You don't want her silent judgment. But this is the kind of role where you go, oh, it's pretty small. You can't shoot her out three days because she has to be in 20 different countries. Yeah. She has to keep showing up on different ships.

Yeah. I mean, she's obviously like in the movie probably for five minutes total. Oh, yeah. She makes an impression. She makes an impression and she must have been, yeah.

I mean, every, every, every small part. In this movie is played by someone that has a Wikipedia page. Oh, yes. Like, yes. Our mutual acquaintance, Griffin, Shiloh Fernandez is in this movie.

Yes. So somewhat briefly.

“He plays one of the soldiers, one of the Trojan soldiers who I think approaches Elliot Page in the beginning of the movie.”

Never takes his mask off, but it is crazy that like even those guys are played by guys.

Or played by guys totally. Right. I mean, who wouldn't want to be on these sets, right? The beggar in the beginning is true. Yeah.

I asked David. I believe it's James Riemann. No, no, no. No, no. No, no.

James Riemann. Is he hateys? Yeah. Like, a, a, a, a terrorist, yes, or whatever his name is. But yeah, he's, he's the guy buried in the sand.

Yeah. I recognize the, I recognize the bottom. Yes. Well, I was trying to pay attention to that scene.

“I kept going like, is that Richard from Saxon, the city?”

How like, you know, I'm so really, because I knew James Riemann was waiting for that. One of the two cloaked guys. I don't know who the guy was at the beginning, but he seems so familiar. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We could figure it out. But I'm sure we will know in a bit. It speaks to the, the Nolan mystery box kind of thing. There's still so many actors for this movie with unlisted characters.

Let's just talk it because the movie is a bit of an episodic structure. Let's just talk about the scene. Okay. So, it's cyclops.

Cyclops is the first big thing.

They go, they go to island. They follow some sheep as you do. Mm-hmm. Yep. Into a cave.

There was a nasty moment where Odysseus just sees like giant bags of cheese. They're hanging on the walls of the cave and it just eats some. Just goes like, they're hungry. They're tired. I guess I don't know if I would eat cave cheese.

I don't know that I would eat random cheese hanging in a cave in a set of where cheese comes from. Usually it's been for me instructed by a government. Or at least by somebody. Like a merchant or a trader. If there was a stamp on the bag of Ag and Mamanon given the thumbs up.

Okay. If that was the inspection. Of course. Or if it was like, you know, Cyclops and polyphimuses, you know, beloved homespun cheese cave.

So it's sort of branding, you know.

“I will admit this because it was a special screening.”

The BFI South Bank. The concessions was not open. Oh. And I really wanted a popcorn in a soda. The whole movie.

Especially because it's a long film. So when he goes over to the bags of cheese. I went like that's disgusting. He's really going to eat this. And then the more he started eating it, I started getting jealous of him.

Kind of go for a bag of cheese. Yeah. He sells cheese bags. I had to prefer cheese. They had popcorn going at the IMX.

But they didn't shut down all the other things. So I had to go downstairs. Oh, talk to the ticket taker and be like, hey, I need to go buy some food. Because I'm going to like faint if I don't eat something. There's three hour movie.

And she was like, yeah, whatever. So you got chicken nuggets, nachos and popcorn. That's right. Is that a problem? Is there a precaution?

I also got orange soda and the freestyle machine kind of spat some like orange.

You know, like this sort of concentrated stuff on me. And it looked like I had robbed a bank and like a die pack. Yeah. It was very good time. I did feel borderline faint towards the end of this movie.

I was talking to you guys before a quarter. Just how fucking hot it has been in Europe. Yeah. And halfway through every day, I get exhausted just from taking steps.

“And I think Europe has like one air conditioner per country, right?”

They just look at it around. Right. So this week, I think Spain has it and sadly I'm in London. Right. I do, you know, it was bad timing to take a euro trip, you know, for some amount of work.

Right when a heat wave is hitting the entire continent. And I feel great that I left the United States and New York in particular at the time that the dial real wave is hitting. There is one of my friends has it. Yeah. There is some diarrhea.

Do you know your sister? Everyone has the diarrhea. Yeah. My sister. I don't know if we want to announce that on the podcast.

She posted a stick about it. She's stacked it and she grabbed it. She grabbed it. She grabbed the ria? Yeah.

No, it is. No, Griff, I think you're wrong.

You would be thriving right now because basically the government is like,

you can only eat the most processed food. Yeah, imaginable. Do not touch a vegetable. Leeds are not for you. Look, everyone's complaining about how bad it is.

I go, yeah. Welcome to my world. That you know what feels like for a minute. Griffin, you're also missing the wildfires. It's causing a lot of residual sleep down there.

So you also can't really, or you're not supposed to go outside, which is perfect for a Griffin Newman. There's also like the Legionnaires outbreak on the upper side. So you wouldn't be able to visit your grandma. That's a good point. My grandmother does live on the upper side too.

Doxer. I also say, I mean, if the wildfires from Canada are brushing over into New York City, I imagine it wouldn't be a good time to barbecue. Any smoking I would try to do would get intercepted by the smokes that were not my control. Yeah.

I'm very particular. You know, I'm fruit was only. Have you been trying any of the barbecue? I'm really a barbecue in Europe. It's really a barbecue hub.

I've been trying to make my own. Of course. Yeah. You lug day a Weber green egg or whatever. Also welcome to come on.

So come on. And smoke smoke and smoke and smoke and smoke and smoke. Right. I mean, they smoke meat well there. Yeah.

Yeah. I am smoking meat well here. So why do you like the cycle? Because he big boy. We did talk about this a little bit.

It's quite scary. It's quite scary. I think the sequence is a marvel.

“I think it is something so uncanny to just make him a guy.”

I think it gets to. What's the opening title at the beginning of this film? It's something like. It's a time of magic. Something like that.

I can't remember. Yes. Talked up. And this is obviously a fantastical story that asks you to believe that centuries and centuries and centuries ago.

Magical things happen. And at some point they just disappeared from the world. Right. And more likely. So it's all true.

Sorry. The opening title is it is a lawless time crime syndicates compete for resources, food, medicine, hyperfuel on the ship building planet of Corellia, the foul leading proximate. Forces runaways into a life of crime and exchange for shelter and protection. And you can smoke that, right?

You can keep it hot. Axiom needs to be cool as hell. So we've got to keep it away from Madrid right now. Oh, yes. Absolutely.

Not yet. It Paris. They got no AC. Right. Yeah.

It is funny. The Paris, they're just like, no, no, no. The cigarettes have no filters. The apartments have no air conditioners. Yeah.

No air conditioners. But we're going to smoke all the paint. And they take some damn naps. They do. They do.

All you can see us does. Nothing. Oh. You can see us. You can see us.

Yes. There. Sorry. I know we were making jokes, but I did look up the actual. Opening.

It's. Please. It is a time of apparent magic. Oh. There we go.

Love that. Yeah. This is a thing. I like about the realization of the Cyclops tied to that. Is it feels like you're witnessing something that could.

They make him a scale that clearly becomes magical. Right. Other than that, you're like, and I just looking at a person with facial differences. Am I looking at something that could have been misinterpreted and through the oral tradition of the story being told and retold and reprocessed? Got more and more extreme.

Right. They don't. You know, in the story he talks to the Cyclops more. Because the whole thing is the he tricks him into thinking his name is nobody. He also gets some drunk.

“And that's how he ends up falling asleep.”

Right. You know, that's when the Cyclops is asked. Like, who did this to? He's like, nobody did this to me. You know, because the trick.

You know, it's a classic Odysseus, the the cunt, the cunning guy. Right. And Nolan is said, like, I just couldn't figure out how to make that work. Right. Like, it's just a different movie.

I guess if it's just like he's talking. You know, like he wanted it. I guess to feel more primal, which it does. He does talk. He makes noise.

And he says to side. And it made me so sad. It's very. It's quite a thing. It's that it makes the character more sad.

Because you're sort of like, is he almost being bullied by these cuts? Right.

They treat him like he's not, you know, intelligent at first.

They're dealing with him like he's a wild animal. And then the realization that he has the ability of speech, which implies obviously, like deeper internal thoughts has come after they've already fucked with him a bunch. He also crunched a bunch of them. He did.

That's true. He did me crunching. There's some self-defense of crunching. I liked that the aesthetics. Thank you.

They made a nice fire for him. Yeah. That's true. I thought the aesthetics of the Cyclops design really reminded me of 90s. Like, I could have seen him in like the Madonna bedtime stories music video.

That's, that's a Marie thought right there. I like that his eye is sideways. Yeah. Kind of vaginal. A little bit.

And that's another Marie thought right there. A little bit. Anyway, he burns his frigging eye. He does. He does.

He likes to sort on fire. And what they poke him to wake him up and then stab him in the eye. Yeah. And then they, you know, they have the hay and they pretend to be cheating. Pretending to be the sheep, which is, you know, that is fine.

The third version of the Odyssey, because they don't want to really show violence.

The Cyclops is embodied by Buster, the rabbit. And GW just ties his ears around his eyes. His eye.

“Is the, is the, uh, Odyssey episode of Arthur from the Stephen Crowder era or was he not boys in brain at that time?”

Um, I have to admit that I am not super familiar with the cast and crew behind. The show Arthur. So I only voiced the brain for two seasons. Griffin out of 25. So it's hard to, you know, narrow it down.

I think he did do jekyll, jekyll, jekyll, jekyll, jekyll, though. If I'm not mistaken. Uh, someone will check that. A little lost here. But that's.

I'm assuming that's an Arthur episode. There's so many lots of musical number. Yeah. Memes about children's entertainment. It's hard to keep up.

Um, so they escape. Yes. They do escape. But Odysseus Odysseus does fire a little parting shots. Yes.

She had never done that. In the story in the poem, it's he just says his name triumphantly. Right. And that's what gets them in trouble. But it's the same basic idea of like now they've invoked the gods.

“Now I think that Nolan keeping the gods at a distance is good because it keeps the men's sort of opinions like kind of up in the ear.”

You know, where they're like, no, the gods have cursed us. Right. Like the idea that it's like, well, maybe you cursed yourself just by, you know, the way you've behaved over the years like without it not having magic. Because Odysseus has a hubris kind of threw out a story. Let's call out another thing here.

One of I think it's maybe our true introduction to Odysseus in the movie.

But in that first 30 minutes, we're getting so much information in different times thrown at us.

We're watching Tom Holland train with mentor who of course is Ryan Hurst, our friend from the Lady Killers, who played Lump. He's got her now. He looks like he just walked off like the set of sons of Anarchy or Vikings. Yeah. David, would you be surprised to hear that in fact, he was on sons of Anarchy.

Yes. Yeah. And of course, next is playing Cratos in the God of War series that everyone thinks looks perfect. Oh, everyone's grumpy about that one, which is the first time that video game fans have had that some objection to an adaptation of their material.

And then there's like a flashback within a flashback.

“And Odysseus is explaining his whole method of stringing his bow, which is sort of his like familiar test of no one can take the throne unless they can string his bow.”

A thing that only he can do, but also that he loves to pluck the bow. Yeah. It's sort of play them musical note before because he thinks it's the honorable thing to do to alert whatever he is about to shoot at that he's engaging them in battle. Whether they're trying to look coolness. That hunting is the same.

Yeah. You know what he does. He comes the Trojan horse is the complete denial of Cranon. Yeah. But even here with with the the Cyclops, you know, he like tricks him and then he turns around and yells like another one.

Yeah, and just fucking he does briefly slip into college mode and he regrets it. The rest he does life. And he brings out like 20 guests acts. Oh yeah. Right.

While we're doing this. Yeah. That guy, you've seen a lot of movies playing happy. What's his future?

Can we shut up and message Patel for a second?

Who we were introduced to obviously. And you know. I'm mentioning there. Okay. Yeah.

And will young Lee. Yeah. Patel who's in tenet. Yes. And is wonderful in tenet.

“Play's kind of an Adam Goldberg gum chewing annoyed asshole in that.”

Yeah. And he's in the one set piece basically. I guess he's in two. He's big, you know. He's like a helper guy.

You want me to do what? Like he's that guy. Crash a plane into a free port. Right. And then yesterday he's obviously like doing a Hugh Grant thing.

I think incredibly well. And then in this. And this he's just playing like ultimate straight arrow right hand man. Who's increasingly questioning. What?

What is this mission? We're on. Like can I trust this? Yeah. I got a bone to pick with a Wikipedia for the Odyssey and parentheses to 2026 film.

They list him Ash Patel as Odysseus's second in command and incompetent brother and law.

Perhaps in the. Again, I have not read the poem. Yeah. In the poem he is he is cowardly. He is a he's a fool.

He's sort of like the emblematic thing. Of like the men just not listening.

“Not like heating the signs and going of the characters in the original poem that he's.”

You know, gifted that bag that controls wind. And then like he and some of the other crew members think there's gold in it. Yeah. Because they're like heady, you know, silly man. Yeah.

Yeah. I think this he is hyper competent. Yeah. In order to cast more doubt on Odysseus, right? In order for Odysseus to doubt himself more.

I also think him being such a like. Earthy reliable character makes the ultimate loss of him. Right. He's the one you're you're really attached to among the men. Really really.

I need one of those guys to really be kind of delineated and fleshed out in that sort of way. Yes. Well, sorry, just to rewind a bit when we're talking about the Matt Damon bow trek. Not the plucking of the bow, but the stringing of the bow. Yeah.

I'm just going to come out and say this.

I've never really been a Matt Damon is hot girly.

Sure. Matt Damon's reliable. Yeah. He's a cutie pie. He's a cutie pie.

But like I've never been like. I mean, that's not Damon. Takes the roles in things like Ford versus Ferrari or air or whatever. It's like, well, he's the kind of do we, you know, middle of the road guy. Yeah.

He's not the sexier guy. A little America's dad. Yeah. We were talking about this in our true grit episode with Stavvy. That like it's funny that Matt Damon had this big action star,

Tom would Jason born, and it feels like he's firmly settled into his. I am dad mode. And then we remembered. Oh, right. His next movie is the Odyssey.

Like he's doing his one last seemingly. I'm going to get fucking swollen. Hell. He went off. He got he's ripped.

Yeah. But he's ripped in a really a track. He's in you. Realistic. Realistic way.

Earthy. Where I was just like. I think you were. He should have put the body suit from live action. Moana on him.

He got a word of work better. Yeah. Do you think? Yeah. My problem with Odysseus in this movie is that he had nipples.

And I wish he could just take those off and just have smooth rubbery packs. Have you seen it yet David? Are you seeing it? No. Why?

Well, no. I'm actually bad at it. Did see it.

Critical darling. Critical darling. Oh, sure. Sure. Right.

So you had to. To help out there. Yes. But no. No.

It sucks. It's so hard. No. It sucks on ice. Yeah.

“When I saw it, the theater smelt like vomit.”

Which felt. Yeah. Which theater. Which, who was it? Alamo.

I've been walking around vomiting in theaters recently. Oh. Kind of like, you know. Mark my turn. No.

My daughter has seen the trailer for multiple times.

And he's always just kind of like.

That's grown up, Moana. And I'm like, yeah. And she's like. Hmm. You know, she's not like.

I can't wait to see that. I mean. I mean. We were opening weekend minions and monsters. We were right there.

And she was like fucking Bernie Mac at death comedy. Yeah. She was just like pointing at the screen and screaming at like everything the minions did. Good. I mean, as were many other children in the audience.

I was just like very touched by them. I was just watching it. Kind of with like my hand to my chest going like, This is so sweet. They loved them.

You got for a comment. James James James. Yeah. James the artist. I've quoted before Robert Downey Jr.

saying that his performance in Jodie Foster's home for the holidays is the most relaxed performance in the history of cinema because of how much hero when he was on.

Hmm.

“I think the rocks performance in live action, Moana would make him jealous.”

Yes. I want to know what he's taking so I can use it to fall asleep at night. Griffin, do you think how about this theory though? I'm going to throw this at you. Dwayne Johnson is we all know actually loves independence and I'm going to make the smashing machine.

You know, he's out here supporting artists. He's saying he's making another movie with Benny Saffty and adaptation of a Daniel Pinkwater book. We'll see if that happens. That would be cool if it did. I mean, I think the issue there might be no one will give them the money, but we'll see.

But he brought down the sniderverse. Okay. He did it himself. The higher he had our did change. Exactly.

He has now brought down possibly Disney live action remakes. He is he a man on the inside. It's actually doing God's work. Yes. Yes.

Do you know what I mean? I love this conspiracy. I've been viewing him as the enemy for a while.

And yet, I loved his performance in smashing machine.

You and I both like that movie. I do. And a lot. And he has been successfully killing the things I hate the most in modern American cinema. I think he might be just like here to help.

This is all I'm saying.

“I just think now is this perhaps, you know, challenge by things like he's in Dumanji”

3 this year, which is hard to get excited about. But I'm trying to remember. Debella's hard to wreck Dumanji through. Yeah, he dirted that and he killed him. Yes.

It's his final film. It's his eyes wide shut. Yeah. And, you know, I did get served up that interview recently. Did you see this group that was going around from the black Adam time where the guy is like,

"So which Joker would be in black Adam?" Like Jared Leto or Joaquin Phoenix or Barry Keegan. And he's like very Keegan. And they talk about it seriously for two minutes for his like when he's doing this. And I'm just like, "Oh my god."

What are you guys talking? They're all, it's like, it's the ultimate, just like everyone just went insane about multi-verses and didn't know what they were talking about anymore. And he was acting like black Adam could just like bring all the worlds together. I know we've already made this joke within this conversation on circle,

but I just need to underline it. There is nothing funnier in the world than a year-long marketing campaign that was all framed around the hierarchy of power and the DC universe will change. And he can exclusively did do that. Yes, it's not in the way he intended.

Farming with the intended. Maybe that's a force of good. Anyway. I don't want to dog piss. Yeah, I believe you.

I won't be saying it ever. So. Okay, we talked about Cyclops. Cyclops. Okay, so then, so Poseidon friggin pissed.

Poseidon mad. Because they fucked with the sun. So they get driven to another island. So the Cyclops is dead. Which is where they meet the large men then that you were.

Oh, sure. They did. You approved of so much. Yeah. And I do the nightmare of the the kid who's like laughing and.

Yeah. Yeah. That's that. He's got kind of wilder energy. Yeah.

What's that? Oh, sure. Yeah. Your archenemesis. Right, right.

The 10-year-old that I am feuding with. And so they're driven in the 10-year-old who has your number. No one is so good at this like stark nightmare stuff. Yeah. Yes.

But when they go to the other side of the island and they're just seeing the animals. You know, like the tiger and the like, you know, like the weird. Oh, that's kind of looking at the species. That's the same island. Oh, it's the same island.

Yeah. Same island. Yeah. And they write in the encounter Cersei. And this is, I mean, it was just like, I know.

So I know that Cersei will turn them into pit, right?

Really tries not to use CGI, obviously.

I mean, I'm sure he used it a little bit in this Griff because he's. You know, he's making the guy's big. There's the big world pool like there's stuff. There's the creature when they have to make the bargain, the raw creature with the. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the one thing that felt conclusively CGI. Right. Where it's going to be.

Right. Some of this has to be. I know so much of it for him is he doesn't want these stages in the process that will degrade the film that when you run these things through optical printing. Right.

Right. Or rather, unless you do optical printing, if you're running them through a computer and then you're sort of outputting it again onto film, you're losing fidelity. And so I know he tries to keep those things to an absolute minimum. But it is just sort of striking to just see guys who are big and not 80 feet tall big.

Right. But just just a little too big. Yes. But the way they so simply have her just like stretching the faces to turn into pig. And just the gross.

What the. What the. And trail soup. Oh. So gross.

It's forming this like waxy kind of like zured ice. Cool coming out of their fruits.

“I want to just throw up because did it not remind you all of spirit it away?”

Well, spirit away is referencing that. I mean, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's, you know, that's this is the first time anyone told these tales.

So the TV version of the Odyssey that we were talking about was being really bad. Do you know who plays Cersei and that Griffin? Tell me. Where to? Friends and Claire from the TV show dinosaurs.

Close. Burn a debt Peter. Oh, which is so cool. Yes. I was as soon as I found that out.

I was like, oh, I could see her just like feet and slap to pigs. Like, you know, just be like, I read my slap. My slap. Oh, my slap. She looks pretty hot.

Yeah. Burn up Peter. We love her. Yeah. Cersei sequence.

Incredible. I can like, so okay. So in the poem, Odysseus does fuck Cersei. Oh, get to that. It leaves there for like a year.

Got it. Good. I just love that again. This sort of simplicity of how he solves this problem of like understanding that there's something like wounded and dark about there.

“Grabbing the bird, like realizing it's important or her.”

And then the way Nolan solves that puzzle so simply of like she's just like, I like her better as a bird. Well, it's it's her sister. And it's but also that he breaks off from his crew. He does. He's hunting.

Well, also because they don't like this. They're pretty kind of doubting him and thinking that the gods have smited him. And they have the gods have smited him.

But he might be the first to defy the gods and successfully and maybe prove the gods wrong.

Uh, what's that tweet? Oh, look up the tweet. But yeah, he shoots a deer and it turns into a very, very handsome naked man. Yes. Uh, it's awesome.

Tidal and sushi. Yeah. Exactly. This is this is the famous treat. Uh, RIP to everyone killed by the gods for their hubris.

But I'm different. And better. Maybe even better than the gods. I'm sending it along to you. And that's true.

That's true. That's true. Well, we're talking about Samantha Martin. Mm-hmm. The great.

“Do we think that she is in the supporting actress Oscar conversation?”

Sure. I think this is quite the everything Oscar conversation right now. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think this is such a kind of reemergence for her.

And such a scene stealing role. And even in the way that Nolan's been talking about her performance in the movie. He's been really spotlighting her in interviews. Yeah. Even though she's not part of the core, like press team that they're pushing out there.

And she said, like, there are two times he can be higher. Oh, sorry. I'm stepping on anything. Yeah. No, he said there are two times in my filmmaking career where an actor has done something that when I called caught the crew broke into applause.

Wow. And it was Heath Ledger. I think during the pencil trick scene. Right. And this.

And when John David Washington said, I ordered my hot sauce an hour ago. That was the third. Well, but to be fair, they applauded the hot sauce. That's actually what they were applauded. And when it was a bit dimicky open to a car door with her foot, even though she was on the other side of the car.

No, I'd remember that. Yeah, when she height maxes. I don't know why. I got to watch Janet again. You got to watch Janet every single day your life.

Yeah, you should watch it yesterday. I don't have that much time. I don't know if you noticed, but there was applause in our audience when her name came up in the credits. Oh, that's nice. I did not notice that.

Yes. My. My crowd had one guy. Like the none other teen movie guy who was trying so hard to get applause breaks happening throughout the movie.

Yeah. Or even the moment where Corey gets the arrow to the throat, upon saying your Odysseus, which rocks. Correct. That is the only time it successfully happened in my theater. This guy truly tried 10 times.

Right. There were 10 times where you would hear. Maybe he was trying to turn on a light and he had a cry. You could have been that. He was clapping on.

Clap on. I want to say about the search. Surgeons. Yeah. That's much like the village that burns themselves down preemptively.

Her whole rationale is I know man they were going to do something. Right. That Odysseus is like why did you do this to them? They didn't do anything to you. And she's like I know where it's going.

Yeah.

That there is a time of such incredible distrust happening.

That people have started to find the gods. They've started to find each other. That they're defying the laws of like behavior. And that everyone is just on the defense all the time. Yes.

Like she can't trust anything anymore as we have said. You know everyone's speaking of these invaders from the sea who don't follow Zeus's law. And yeah.

“I mean, could she have maybe asked five to 10 questions before she served them pig soup?”

Maybe. I don't know. She's gone a little mad up there. She's also just got questions. Aren't you on a back burner all the time?

They are like a food and she's like yep. Slap it up. Slap it up. Slap it up. It's so gross looking.

It was so disgusting. And she is the one who says you're going to have to go to hell. Sorry. You know, and he's like nobody ever does that. And she's like, I don't know what to tell you man.

You're going to be the first. You're going to pull it off. Yeah. And so they go to the underworld. Pretty rad.

Oh, my God. It's so sick. And the black beach. The black beach. The black Icelandic beach.

Yeah. I need to go to Iceland. It's beautiful. And it's a four hour flight. I know.

I'm going to do it. I've been. Yeah. It's been on my list. They have hot dogs.

Oh, good. Okay.

“That was the only thing holding me back.”

I'm glad to be able to. Pop over there for a nice land to go up. Okay. Perfect. That's great.

And yes. And this is James Remar.

First team choirs as to like.

Did Samantha ever show up and is just like that. And just like that. And Damon's like, yeah. But it was weird. They clearly just kind of shot it separately.

And she just kind of like has one side of phone call. And it wasn't really satisfying for anyone. He tells Odysseus to meet him at the top where the era's crisp. That's a girl next door reference. Okay.

Not. Wow. We are close in that movie. He's always cooking. I mean, the guy cooks.

Apart from mortal combat annihilation where the stove was broken. I guess. But the gas was cut. Yeah. And Marie did remind me on this subway ride home of the other next storm.

What's the Jennifer Lopez movie? The boy next door. The boy next door. The boy next door. The boy next door.

The boy next door. The boy next door. The boy next door.

Gifts her a first edition of the Odyssey.

Yes. The first edition of the Odyssey. Yes. Like Conic. Could we do a next door?

Should we turn on series? Well, okay.

“Are we doing movies with the title next door in them?”

The something next. There's a lot of like fucked up neighbor movies. You know what I mean? The boy next door. He's on the next door.

Next door. Okay. We've also got the girl next door. Boy next door. We've got a 220 set of that's a TV miniseries.

I'm out on that. Are there any other good ones? The girl next. There's two girls. We are the spy next door.

Okay. Jackie Chan. The spy next door. Uh-huh. I'm not seeing a lot of good stuff here.

I think you'd have to more do a neighbor series. Like real. Okay. Well, that. You know, kind of feeling.

Yeah. Exactly. Like, what's the one where Samuel Jackson's the call? It doesn't like that. It's like a terrorist.

Like a terrorist. You know? That's the biggest. The bad neighborhood. The police, which is really fun.

Anyway, movie where people are like kind of peeking through blinds. You know? Yeah. And then like, like something happens. The makes and go, ah.

Wasn't there like a racist Dennis Quaid bat neighbor movie recently? Yes. Yes. Where again, it's like the intruder. Uh-huh.

The Dennis Quaid Plays the racist. Yeah. Yeah. It's Michael, Ely, and Megan Goode move next door. Yeah.

He's like high up in your neighbor. In a transformative performance, Dennis Quaid plays like a somewhat unhinged reactionary. Well, this is the Dennis. The Dennis Quaid thing is so funny. It was this thing in the substance too, where I'm like, you're in this movie

playing a character that is like satirizing the kind of guy that you associate.

Yes. So like it's fast. It's got some self-awareness. Are you self-aware? Arlington Road.

“What if your neighbor was possibly a terrorist?”

Another fun one. Yeah.

You've never seen Arlington Road.

I've got to see Arlington Road. I do think Rier Window is the king and origin of it. Ben, like, I think you're really like that. The window I would say is the best one. I don't know.

Have you seen? Did you stirbia? Disturbia, which is just Rier Window. Which is Rier Window. That's a great episode.

Love that episode. That's the one where Millhouse tries to write Millhouse, but he wants to go to the pool. So he writes Millpool. Millhouse? It gave a just snack and medieval laugh.

Millhouse. So good. Everything's coming up Millhouse. I think about once a day. Of course.

Yes. The Simpsons did an Odyssey. They did. They did. It's one of those anthology episodes where it's three stories and one, right?

Oh, yeah. Sure. I sent this gift to one of our group texts the other day, David. I think it was blanked out, but of the line up of the suitors who are coming from Marge in their version of the Odyssey.

“Because I remember that being the best section is just like,”

Disco stew and mo and everyone recording Marge. Oh, I see. Yes. It was called Tales from the Public Domain. It's really funny.

The Odyssey is the first and they may have a,

Lisa Simpson is Joan of Art. Lisa is Joan of Art. And then a Hamlet episode called Do The Bard Man. Really funny. And I believe the final joke in that episode is he finishes telling the story of Hamlet.

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Oh, man. And then there would be one point where like Preston Lacey would fall on top of a weekman inside the horse. Sure. That would really funny. Yeah. What I was going to say is that John Bernthal, another thing that was like very much out of context in the teaser for this movie of him just being like,

Hey, you want to hear about my brother like just talking like John Bernthal or whatever. And that was another thing in the trailer. All right. You got Tom Hall and whining about like my dad's coming home. And then John Bernthal just talking like John Bernthal. And I was like, but it's all it's removing the distance from these things. And I was also talking to a friend who was saying that like, you know,

there are a million different translations of these things.

And some of them are like, no, the wording is something more casual than father. Totally works for me in the context of the movie. The characterization of these characters or portrayed makes absolute sense. And ultimately makes the story really relatable for, you know, contemporary audiences, but not in a way that feels forced.

Yeah. But yeah, I was not saying hello fellow kids. Right. I just, I just watched Amadeus last week, which, you know, a perfect movie.

But again, that to me is like the classic version of that we're going to apply sort of like modern sensibility. Sensibility is to it. Yeah. To a historical story, but it just, it just works.

To, to wrap the, yes, the, the, the Black San Beach like this game. When they all come out of the sand and start charging or it's like,

“all the shades want is like news of people who are alive, right?”

Like, this is where it's sort of seated for Odysseus of like, you're going to need to pay tribute to the menu loss. Like, you know, you haven't been honoring their deaths enough. And then telemic, as I feel like, from Analayas is getting the sort of the information of like, you can't just walk back to your house and

think everyone's going to be happy to see you. Odysseus will need to survey the landscape when he arrives, you know? Yes. Yeah, and you've got, you know, you got the intrigue of like, Pattinson and Corey and all these guys are like,

maybe we should kill telemic and, you know, whatever. You know, whatever. That's all a little bit of kind of like that's screenplay chat for, you know, like, but Pattinson's big seduction scene is pretty excellent. Yeah, yes.

He doesn't good job of towing the line between being actually really convincing, but also winking at the audience. He plays the character as a fairly good actor. Yes, which is hard to do to show that he's almost pulling it off.

Well, so he gets the prophecy and he knows Odysseus knows what's to come.

Yeah.

“But he does not tell his men, which is that they will come across a whirlpool as”

well as this, I don't even know how to describe the monsters. Like a spider. It's a different arm. It's a octopus. It's a dog.

It's a dog. It's a dog. You know, and it's a man eating monster of, you know, it's, sometimes it's depicted as like a maiden with like dog heads coming out of her body, which is kind of a bend.

Yeah. No shit. Yeah. Punch the turns into a bite. Yeah, he cools down.

Um, but it's, you know, Odysseus keeps being told by people like Cersei and, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, What terraces. Cersei. Cersei.

Cersei. Cersei. Like your men are going to die. Yeah. And Odysseus is like, no, you know, they don't,

you're telling me how we can avoid that. And they're like, that's true. And you will live, but they're not going to, it's not going to, it's not going to work. Yeah.

And like their ultimate probability is like they make it to this island, where they're like, don't eat those juicy cats, the thing. You see cats. They belong to. They make those cows look good.

They belong to the sun God of all of them. So you can't fucking eat them. But it's just like a marshmallow test of like, but the minute you're here, you can't leave the winds die down. And you're just going to get hungry or hungry until you're like,

well, maybe we have to eat the cows. And then, you know, they all get struck down in the, in the, in a store. They go in their little barbecue hole, griff. They do go in a secret barbecue hole. They smoke those cows.

Yeah. That is true. We also see the sirens. We do. We do.

And again, you know, Nolan connects this to like, Odysseus is like longing for what is lost. Like versus just like he's so horny for these hot ass singers, which is sort of the classic sirens thing of him being like, I want to get there.

And he said he's just wailing and crying like, great performance moment from Damon there. Yeah. Oh, incredible shit. When he says the thing of like, it's like the tastiest itch.

And when you go to scratch it, you realize it's under the skin. It's so evocative. It's good shit. It's really good shit. I can keep pulled off some good shit here.

Nolan, I'm going to tell him that in a typed note. Ben, I assume that you believe if you listen to the sirens, everything would turn out okay in your marry all. They would just be like, you're so chill. You rock.

Now you can go.

Here's what you're talking about.

You're talking about time. They give you. Yeah. Of course. You're all.

You're all. You're all. You're all. And so, yes, what do you know, what do you know? I wanted to ask about the point stuff.

What do you think of the boat stuff? They shot on a friggin real ass boat.

“I think like the oldest available boat is what they use.”

It's like a biking boat. Yes, I need to be nagged. It's the boat is called the Drake in under 15 foot boat from Norway. Right. I guess it's a modern built boat.

Yeah. Because obviously you're not. I guess you're not allowed to take like. Items of antiquity out of the open ocean. They just go buy some like London museum.

They're like, I have that. But it's it's imitating obviously like an ancient Viking long ship or whatever. I would have thrown up. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people did. I read some story about Nolan being like,

"Do you mind if I shoot you throwing up?" Yeah, I read that too. Cool. Which is cool. Yeah, I mean, growing seems relaxing.

I don't know. It does not seem relaxing. I can't get the groove of it. I'm telling you. Oh, sure.

Just like repetitive thing. You know, put on some ambient music and the air pot. It's awesome. A fix to it. Can you just listen to the sirens?

That's true. Yeah. Right. Good growing music. Yeah.

“I would I think I would have died at Troy.”

No. I would have died before we even got to Troy. Like I wouldn't have made it. Right. I wouldn't have made it that far.

Exactly. It would have eaten me. Let's be honest. In this time, I would have died in the cradle. Exactly.

I would have died of like air allergy or some shit. Maybe, maybe I would have been sacrificed.

Because I am like a first-born child.

Do you know? They would have tried to sacrifice me. And the gods would have projected me. No. Thank you.

What do you supposed to do with that shit? Um, okay. Also throughout this whole time we keep flash. We keep, you know, cutting into Odysseus with colips. So she keeps being like, remember more.

What happened to your men? What happened to your men? And finally, he breaks down. Yes. Finally, colips.

Right. And he is man of colips up. But she's kind of like, look man, you needed to. Like, I feel like traditionally colips.

Like, colips are literally means like steel drum. Right. Yeah. She can see. You know, like, that she's like a liar.

Right. But like, she's just kind of like, if you wanted to go, you would have remembered.

Like, you're only remembering now because you're finally ready.

Yeah. To sort of accept the emotional truth.

“Now, like, would Penelope be thrilled to hear this?”

No. No. But um, and so yes, he goes home. In disguise as a beggar. God bless Nolan.

Like, he is very true to the tail of the Odyssey, which is like, the last part of it is Odysseus. Just guys is a beggar hanging out in his house. Being like, hmm, you know. Yeah.

I loved all the beggar stuff. I also love that, uh, like, as Amo gets a shine so much in this side. So much more like, because he becomes the one ally. One ally.

He has. Right. Uh, what was that nice old lady? Yeah. Who knows, this is Legscar.

Also the dog. The dog. The dog. The dog. The dog.

The dog. The dog. The dog. What's dog name Argos? Argos.

Oh, so sad. Poor boy. Apparently, it's very controversial that in this film. He touches the dog. It's controversial that he touches the dog.

I don't know. People are like, he's not supposed to touch the dog. I did find it so funny in that interview that they were asking Nolan. Like, are you worried about this backlash at all? And he was like, one.

I don't consider backlash from people who have not seen the film yet. Two. Everyone forgets that I worked on Batman movies for a decade. I don't think people forget that. But he's right.

No, but he was just like, He's like a little fucking nerds for a decade. I don't give a shit. So by touching the dog, Tom Holland recognizes this is my dad. Yes, that is when telemic has put together.

Thank God, because telemic is would seem really dumb otherwise. I think it's certain for sure. Well, this guy's like, no, I'm not just just, but I know him. And he's coming this way soon. Okay.

Sorry. So the dog, the thing with the dog is the. The dog is what potentially gives him away. Yes. His identity.

“So the question is, does Odysseus kill the dog or does the dog die?”

Dog dies. The dog does die in the movie. Yeah. But some of them are like, actually, it should have been Odysseus. Nailing the dog.

An important or learning person who has said that. You cannot. All right. Brando's on Twitter. Is there a real person who has talked about this?

Probably not. No. It is a bunch of comments from and I will say this confidently. Cool. So Penelope has set up this test for all the suitors, which is the trick.

We see Odysseus do way earlier in the film where they line up a bunch of axes.

It's basically like this incredible, like, party trick he would guess.

He would string his bow and then he would fire the arrow along the axes. It would be really cool. And I would say Odysseus, you're the best. Never leave. So now all these suitors are lining up.

They can't even get this bow strong. It's so good. Yeah. They're fools. We got to go back a bit.

No, we don't. Yes, we do. Because we have the whole scene when he talks to Penelope through the screen. And that's. Yeah, sure.

Because that's before. This is a, it's all, you know, it's, this is all happening in this time. This is for the trial. Yes. That sequence when it's finally revealed what actually he witnessed at Troy and that.

Right. It is the, right. If we've talked about it a little bit already, but right, that's the emotional thing. No one's getting it. This is what he can't get over.

And he's not revealing himself to her. No, he's using a fake again. He's going kind of like, yeah, what if a guy who knew Odysseus knew that he felt really shitty about the second. Right.

Because that would be kind of, not really in bad. I, I had a, I had tears in my eyes. Oh, no. It's so good that the revelation of his entire, like, that really just crushed me. That worked for me so well, like the use of her in the sack of Troy.

So, you know, like the, and then then him looking at Athena, quote, you know, yeah.

Because then day it basically was just some peasant woman who gets struck down.

But then kind of embodies Athena then throughout the rest of the film. Like his guilt, his story. Yeah. And the sequence is exciting. Like it's also genuinely thrilling to watch.

Yeah.

“I mean, I think with these stories get passed down and by virtue of them being passed down,”

you lose some of maybe the more unsafeory elements. Like the fact that there is an, an adaptation of the Odyssey on the show, Arthur. That, you know, yes. I think that is, of course, the peak of of tell the telling of the story. I think that is, of course, the peak of tell the telling of the story.

I think that is, of course, the peak of tell the telling of the story. I think that is, of course, the peak of tell the telling of the story. I think that is, of course, the peak of tell the telling of the story. I think that is, of course, the peak of tell the telling of the story. I think that is, of course, the peak of tell the telling of the story.

But there is so much emphasis on the heroic moments and the moments of valor that, like,

Yes, but it's also a movie that's, it's so explicitly about guilt that I think. It's not like it's a whitewashing the character, you know. And I'm not in a line, it's whitewashing the character. I'm saying that like, when there's, I think of like, I'm tired of hearing these stories about Odysseus or other people that are like really, really great when it doesn't really like. Like mirror the feeling of the loss and the guilt and the tragedy.

And finally, we get to see that part of the story and it breaks you. And it's just like.

It's, it's be good. It's really good. Look, Elliot and the Odyssey the poems are about triumphant victories over Barbarians. Like, he is, he is putting this in a completely modern context. This is not something that, you know, he is like borrowing from Homer. He's, but he's putting it in very well. We should shout out that, um, the big influence for him was of somewhat recent adaptation.

Emily Wilson, which is a kind of, it's important distinction just mentioned is the first time that this poem was ever translated by a woman. Right, which I don't approve of to be called. Okay, I think she should be translating raw food into cooked food in the kitchen. Sorry, that's a joke. Actually, the lead of my review was at which I think is very, I, for when I couldn't think of a fucking lead.

So I use this instead. But like Emily Wilson, you know, famously, the Odyssey usually kind of begins like tell me of Odysseus, like the man of twists and turns. Right, like that's the sort of Greek translation of, and she renders it much more simply as like the complicated man.

“And like I think that's what Nolan is responding to of like this is not just a person who had twists and turns that he navigate.”

Like this is, you know, there is something introspective we can find in this man. Yeah, no, there is. Yeah. The other thing this movie reminded me of a lot, and I don't know if I just, I haven't been reading or watching a ton of interviews with Nolan. So I don't know if he's already called this out a bunch.

It reminded me a lot of Excalibur in sort of the vibe of being this kind of like earthy dreaminess, even just the way he uses fog and smoke throughout the movie. And sort of finding this way to make a tactile version of of magical ideas to me. He cited last temptation of Christ and that to me is also what you're talking about a little bit that moment where he stands up. And he's got like bits of the beach on him on his back. Yeah, that felt very correct. What are some other thing? I feel he's been talking about some other movies.

Andre Rubelev. Sure. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. Ron.

Right. Right. That feel like, you know, any time we're zooming out to a bunch of guys running on the beach, that felt very Curse like Lake Curse. Oh, what to me. Uh, girl next door. I've seen him.

Yes. Well, because it's about like the fact that she's next door and James remover. And also is the juice worth the squeeze as kind of a common refrain in this movie. Is that that's the Elijah Cuffford movie? Yes, correct.

And Timothy Oliphant is there. But I would put him on the supporting actor, Balletford. Right. He's the kind of like the Joey pants who shows up late, and he's like,

“Oh, all I remember is a tall day. Oh, and a meal hursher in that movie.”

They're in it. Right. Yes. He's like the Ray Leode and something wild.

Right. Right. He's the spark plug at the third act. Right.

He's really good. Yeah. Okay. He makes the five. Uh,

So, yes. So he does the trial reveal himself. None of those other men can string that fucking bow. Uh, he can string the bow. Pattinson is like, I won't even play the game.

Like he's trying to take the kind of he's like, I won't fall for your trick. Yeah. I know you're trying to say here, but he ain't coming back. So you just got to pick one of us anyway.

“And that is I feel like a round one of Odysseus.”

Uh, do shoot Corey Hawkins. Yeah. He do. Uh, in the throat and his last words are Eura Odysseus. It just, it just, it just, it just made me very happy.

Uh, and it was really fun to see. Matt Damon go it. Shit. Yeah.

Dude, that fight sequence is incredible.

Yeah. Quiet. It does feel like this is the last time we're going to go action star mode. I mean, probably except for maybe Odyssey 2 to answer two furious. I just feel like Damon is not a guy who's like desperately holding on to his ego of being a certain type of leading man.

No. No. That's a different kind of thing. That's more of like a thriller. That would be, but it has an action in it.

Yeah. Gun action is different from this action. Yeah. Um, and I guess the instigators, which everyone remembers so well, uh, she's just crazy. It took me a second to even pull what you were talking about.

That was kind of capary. Like there's a car. He spends a lot of them, like his character is, they take his, like, fair. Just play by Hong Chau hostage with them.

So it's a lot of like him talking to his therapist.

Other people do stuff. I do think Gun high stuff is different. It's different. I mean, like, and then obviously, even like the last duel or whatever, like. A movie that I love.

A great movie. It does have, you know, action. And it, but it's brutal and kind of, you know, and he's, I mean, he's been a guy who has to go to court to argue. He gave his wife an orgasm. What? I'm sure he will do action sequences again.

But I'm saying I think this fuels like, yeah, his, his final, like, big action hero movie. Although, I don't know, although anything about this Daniel's movie. Yeah, no one does. That is his next project. Like, what is that?

“The rumors I have heard do not make it sound like that's what it is.”

And in fact, I think a lot of why there was such a musical chairs of which a list star was going to play that role. Is that that role is a little secondary to the narrative that he's in a lot of the movie, but he doesn't get to, like, have the big wins. I feel like that's something Damon is happy to do. Exactly.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I think he's happy to, like, surrender that and go, like, all let the younger cast sort of drive the story. And I'll just service the plot. Wait, I'm so sorry.

I just clicked on the reddit. Did you fucking see this? Yeah. It was no joke about the highway signs. What happened?

A highway exit in Georgia that just says Griffin Newman. No, no, but it's what it's. No. No, no, no. Griffin, okay.

No, but from far away, it was not early just says Griffin Newman. Why is this happening? Is that the love of an old town or something? It's really upsetting. I feel like I'm witnessing some sort of glitch.

It's a little backwards. Okay.

“And you know the best thing about it about that sign.”

You need it, too. Yeah. Here I will tell you the answer. It appears to be that there are two separate places. Griffin, Georgia, and Newman, Georgia.

And I guess you can access them both from this exit. That is wild. I should move to that intersection. I think you need to move there. We've got to go there.

Maybe when we drive eventually to Disney World. I mean, live show and in Griffin, noon and. Live show. Let me get in touch with the bookers down. Griffin, the Griffin noon and sign.

Okay, sorry. That's what we ought to see. Yeah, he kill everyone. He kill everyone. And, you know, there's some, it's just like a fun sequence where you got Tom Holland.

And what's his fucking doing? What's his name? Like I, who we used to, Logan Markshire Green. Logan Markshire Green. Oh sure.

I mean, we used to like Tom Hardy. Yeah, I was going to say when Tom Hardy and I worked together in a while. You can at least get Logan Markshire Green. I was supposed to be Cosmo Jarvis. And yes.

Cosmo Jarvis probably had to go film. Go to Japan. Yeah. But, you know, there are upstairs. And there's a hole in the floor.

The weapon's moving all the way down. There's all the windows showed up. Right. But then he goes and he tries to put him through the hole. Right.

So yeah. Spears, spears, spears. He's not even doing anything. He's been in that scene. He's so funny.

He's so funny. He's so good at playing this kind of like desperation. And it's like fascistness. I can not wait to see him play Chris Hanson. I just think it's like such genius.

Fantastic. It's really cool. I want to see it. But, yeah. And Odysseus, it's like,

him versus like 60 guys.

And when he finally is victorious at the end of the battle,

he's just got spears poking out of his body. He does get a couple. Yeah. He doesn't make it through Scott for it. No.

He takes, he takes some, some hells. No one has a little bit of fun making you think like maybe he's going to die. Yeah. Right. He's not a superhero.

No, no. We're going to do dark night rises. It's like what we talked about. We're going to fucking retire. We'll go off.

He's going to, he and in half way are going to go off into the sunset together. Ten on me because King, he's Fernando himself. He's done great. And then when he gets on the boat is when he might finally reveal like, by the way, it did spin eight years on the island with Charlie's throat.

Anyway, let's go. And we might have hooked up a little bit. Yeah. Just over the close stuff. Yeah, no, totally.

She always had her fish net thing hat on.

Like, and it was, it was the Lotus. Look, what can I tell you? It was all Lotus. It was really back in ancient Greek times. There was like an understanding that like sex is different.

“I think over the jeans doesn't really count.”

I mean, they had so many jeans then. It was such a dynamic. Yes. Such a dungery movie. It is funny.

It's a last thing I expected for it to be so heavy on the Levi's product. Although the costuming is awesome. It can. And I love it.

Like, corny, like sandal and sword, like over the top.

“No, it's, it's very simple and kind of rough here.”

But they've been really wears like a cut off t-shirt at one point. But it's just like, you don't need the over the top robes. Yeah, you know, you know what movies costuming is dog ass. Oh, gosh. Dog ass.

Troy. Nambe for an Oscar. They, they made all of the costumes out of dog's asses. They made all of the issue. That's why it was impressive.

They got, they got Brad Pitt wearing crop tops, like serulean blue crop tops and serongs. And it was devilish product. Yeah. Where's he from? It's history.

It's actually before they beat them to the serulean pot. I was really right. I was researching ancient Greece crop tops. I could find nothing. Oh, yeah.

You could find anything when you Google that. I could find nothing. Although it's funny how in Bushwick right now, Caesar haircuts and crop tops. Yes.

Yes. Hot Odyssey summer. Yeah. There you go. I remember Troy being a very naval forward movie.

Yeah, a lot of boat. Not a boat. No, I didn't like a belly buttons. Oh, yes, you're right. You're right.

It does have it's both naval with an A and naval with an E. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I'm not sure if you see Eric Bannon's cute little any or Audi. I'm not sure why.

I wish I'd love to take a look. I'm a little worried about Googling Eric Bannon. I don't know what what what that'll do to my algorithm. Looks like an any classic. Okay.

A classic any.

“That was just one of those movies where everyone I think was just like,”

I need biggest arms on this. Yeah. You know, like everyone's just like dating the gym constantly. No, they're not that bulky. All right.

They're not that bulky. Like you see what's is Orlando Bloom. Well, he was naked a lot. And it is. It is people.

Look at this. It's a very male model. Yeah. It looks good. Bannon looks good.

Bannon looks good. Bannon looks good. Final thoughts on Christopher Nolan's. Yeah. Very good.

Really. Very good. I can't wait to see it again. I just I'm like, there's so much more to just unpack and notice.

I think it'll be a very rewarding second view.

Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I think it kind of had a little bit of everything. Yeah. You know, this fact a little bit of this little bit of that really fun.

I thought it was well past. I was never bored. No. Same with open time. We're just kind of moves.

We've got two fifty. Yeah. David, your wife wants the bucket. She does. How do I get that fucking bucket?

God. The horse. I'm keeping my eyes on the orders. If it goes back and stock anywhere, I'll send it to you. I am so.

I am really looking forward to your wife's review. I feel excited for her to see it. I've been so much skeptical. She's not like a die-hard Nolan fan anyway, but I, we're going to go see it. Yeah.

And her review will be on a Patreon tier that doesn't exist and will never.

We haven't come up with a tier that high. Yes. Yeah. The bucket is here. The bucket's really big.

It's really big. It's really big. And then there's also the IMAX camera bucket. Yeah, which is cool. I want.

So I think that one. One of them is Regal and one of them is AMC. Yeah. Can we say quickly they had to, I mean, Nolan basically threw the challenge down to IMAX. They've been refining the technology to help him make these movies, not just in terms of the filming,

but even in terms of the projection because there was a time limit on how long an IMAX could be there. There's about three hour cap right. Yeah. Right. But it, he helped them work up to three.

I think he needs to be too something. Right. But they finally made the smallest version of an IMAX camera possible for this movie. Yeah. And they also developed it.

They called the blimp, which is a case that goes around the camera that suffocates the sound. Yes. Because everyone says it's so goddamn loud. You can't hear yourself thing. The dialogue scenes.

It's why usually he only shoots the more visual scenes and IMAX and the dialogue scenes aren't. And this because he was going to do the whole thing. They had to blimp it up. It was all. It was all IMAX.

I'm, I'm.

That aspiration never changed.

I'm very curious because I am seeing it in 35 millimeter. Like it really did feel like he was using the entire IMAX frame. I'm curious. I mean, there've been the infographics that have been going around at the different formats. And some people complaining that if you don't see it in a perfect square is the framing all going to look weird.

No. To me, that only looks bad if you're watching the next. It only looks bad if you know what you're missing. But if you don't know what you're missing, you don't know what you're missing. You don't know what you're missing.

So I'm sure I'm sure it's going to be great. It would be funny if it's like, you don't see demons. It's horrible. Like they did no work thinking about it. It's just like a job.

It's talking to each other. Yeah. But it's very good.

“I think it's going to make a ton of money.”

I think it'll do well. My father and laws texted me. You know, they're like, you heard of this.

I've seen a movie, and it's phenomenal. You should, you should go. And a graffiti have box office predictions. I mean, we assume Moana will jump 100%. So it'll be number one and then on to number two.

“No, I think people are assuming that this is going to open over a hundred.”

Yeah. I mean, I've been hammered open to 80 against Barbie. Yes. Because we should mention we're recording this Thursday at the day before. We're recording this.

Yes.

The night it's coming out, basically.

But I think it's probably going to open to like 110. The thing with these format forward movies is the opening weekend cannot be totally humongous because a lot of people wait until they can get the ticket they want. Yeah.

Yeah. So you have a lot of people who are going to wait two or three weekends, which means the thing's going to hold incredibly well. But I think it's probably going to open to like 110 would be my guess. 200 in that.

I think end up at like, yeah. I'm guessing it ends up around 350 domestic. I don't know. Bet this plays well in Greece. A billion worldwide.

Yeah. It'll play well. Yeah. I think that's true. And we should do merit.

You know, offer some demerits for this post. No, stop either. No, stop. No, stop. No, stop.

No, stay in most. The big three. No, stay.

“Who to stay most could have he could have been one of the suitors.”

Yeah. He could have been there. And, you know, who the other guys from full house. Oh, well, Bob Sagitton. Isn't with us anymore?

Who's that? Ah, exactly. Yeah. He could have had a puppet. Lori Lockland convicted felon.

Yeah. She's wait. What's going on with full house? It's bad. It's bad.

Oh. House too full. I mean, and it probably does have a full house. It's a good place. That's a point.

Yeah. David, that house has too many people in it. Sometimes you remind us that you're the film critic. That you're the one real professional in this field. That is like writing.

Penelope does have as I'm being, like, taken out of my office. My security with it. You have been fired. I'm like, no, no, no, let me, let me.

Mike, I think you finally found your lead.

I think it'll be Odyssey, Moana. Minions. I don't know what else is up there. Evil. I would not be surprised if there's a Moana drop.

That is so significant that minions or toy story. It's actually a head of second weekend. Yes. Yes. The invite has been growing quite nicely.

I think that might, that might continue to do well. Have you been playing at Grishon? No. It is not playing in Spain. I think it maybe doesn't come out for another month or two.

I'm trying to see it while I'm here in London. Well, may go see it after this record or I may go see it. I really enjoyed it.

“You should just watch the people upstairs.”

The Spanish film that it's based on in Spain. This is true. But I think the great hubby come out. Hmm. I don't know which one I should watch first.

I don't think it matters. I think you're fine. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. Let's wrap it up. You can't be cooking in there forever. Well, this is one of the most relevant films of 2026.

It's one of the biggest films of 2026. It will certainly go down in history as one of the films that represents this year. Which, of course, means that next week we're talking about in the blink of an eye. No. Yes.

Yes. That's true. That is true. I remember it's having a lot of fun. Your brother Joey Sims is cooking.

Yeah. We have a good time on that app. Maybe not talking about this. Think of an eye that much.

A 26-Hulu release that you might be hearing about for the first time right now.

Yeah. I'm excited to watch it. Are you? No. Okay.

Yeah. I like one of the three sections in that movie a lot. And I'm curious. Don't tell me what don't tell me which one. I'm not going to tell you.

I'm curious when you watch it if you have the same response. I think you will. Yeah. And yeah. So we've got two more stanton films right to fill out that little mini.

So we've got in the blink of an eye in Toy Story 5. You can film see directed in 2026. And then overall. But it's also. No.

I was just going to call out. You say the patron David. Yeah. On Patreon. We've got the final Robocop entry, which is Robocop 2014.

Five stars. I think I'm going to remember. Yeah. Elive. Right.

Right. No suicide is contemplated on that app. I'm kidding. I was just going to call out. We have announced our John Carter screening, which sold out.

That's really fast in which Andrew Stanton is going to be doing a Q&A with us. What a fool he is. We are not sure if we will be able to record and or release that. But we are going to be doing a sit down with him in studio. That's the thing.

So that will be coming later. And we will figure out the deal with the Q&A. But for our number of factors that we can talk about later. We're not totally sure what form that will have down the line. But look forward to release on the main fetus.

Just a bonus episode. Yes. It'll be kind of old school Thursday bonus. I think is the plan.

No. Oh, sorry. Please. Wait. No.

There's one thing. Griffin. Before we started recording. You said you had a big joke.

“You wanted to make the joke about how funny is it that I left New York.”

And everyone has diarrhea now. I don't hate the joke. Oh, that was the joke. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank God. We got that in there. Because you did all put a pin in that.

And so often we put pins and things that never get on pins.

I want to start a new segment called the cork board. At which any time we say we're going to put a pin in something. Ben, you write it down. And at the end, we check the cork board. What do you think of that?

That's a good idea. That's a good idea, right?

“I also see that working as a fun social media.”

Right. Do you own cork board for the cork board idea? Yeah. Worked board for the cork board. So we're announcing the cork board.

Unfortunately, the next two months of episodes have largely been recorded. Get ready for a bunch of episodes that don't have the cork board in. No, and probably a lot of unfinished tangents. Let's be honest. There are a bunch of marks for Sezi.

Well, tell us what to add. Anything else? Yes. And the upcoming episode on the cork board. And be polite.

“And for all the Arthur talk in this episode, I must say.”

And as always, Jackal, Jackal, High, Jackal, High, Jackal, Jackal, Jackal, Jackal, High, Jackal, High, Jackal, High, Jackal, High, Jackal, High, Jackal, High, Jackal, High, Jackal, High.

[laughs] Three people will be so happy. [music playing] I'm going to get a seltzer, once again. Yeah.

Can you give me a seltzer, too? David, can you grab Griffin a seltzer? [laughs] He always did a double take. Okay, good.

Can I close the portal? Yes, the camera. [laughs] Yeah.

If you pour it into the sound for it, we'll come through my headphones.

[music playing] Like Jack with Griffin in David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKean.

This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKean and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lame Montgomery in the Great American novel. With additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds.

Our production assistant is minic. Special thanks to David Cho Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, blankcheck special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social @blankcheckpod.

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