The Year of Living Dangerously with Tracy Letts

A podcast caught in the fire of Revolution.

>> So that's the part that's the timeline heavy on the series mostly. >> Um, not because I'm trying to avoid doing an Australian accent, I could nail it if I wanted to. >> You ever done an Australian accent?

“>> I haven't, I'm told that the secret is really, really, really, really, really, really, really.”

>> What's, I feel like the one that's gotten really big when I see it. >> Royely, like Australian accent Instagrams is, no. [LAUGH] >> No, no, no. >> We're just in the Caribbean.

>> But that they, there's a note with an R, we've been really upsetting the entire continent, this entire series. Just so you know, you're walking into Tracy. >> Luckily, this movie isn't said in Australia, but we have been, you know, our, our knowledge gaps about Australian history and culture have been exposed a little bit. >> Look, we've heard some of this, some of your Australian prejudice.

>> 'Cause I grew up in Britain. >> Yes, okay. So you've heard, yeah, I'm copying to it.

>> And we thought it was a positive stereotype to assume that upon meeting

every Australian takes out a knife and compares who's knife is bigger than the others. >> Right. >> We did not think that was offensive. >> Have you ever been to Australia? >> I have, you know what, this has not come up much in the series. >> You've been multiple times?

>> Or just the one time. >> I've been two times both for work. Once for fun, I had a good friend growing up who's family relocated to Australia. And I went to visit him when I was a teenager and then I went, I went for work. I was on a TV show, which no one should ever make.

I feel like you have some similar experiences or similar opinions on the process of making a TV show, which is fairly brutal. >> I don't know, it depends on the show. >> Okay, you're right. >> What show were you on? >> It's called the tick.

It was a superhero parody and we had an extended press tour that ended in Australia. >> Wow. >> And they were like, you two Australia. >> They took me to Australia and it was a thing where the cast was an international press tour. And every time we like jumped the continent or a country, someone would drop off and be like,

either we're cutting the budget, we're reducing the cast or I'm not available for another week of this. And so it got down to Australia and it was just me and the creator of the show.

“And they were like, and you're down to do the Australia stop, right?”

We'll fly you in. It's just 36 hours and we'll fly you back. And I was like, I'm not going to Australia unless you give me five days in a hotel. It was one of my only flexes ever. >> Were you in Sydney?

>> I was in Sydney proper, but then did some driving around. Not me, people drove me around. >> Yeah, he can't drive. >> I can't drive. >> Have you been to Australia, Dave?

>> Never been. I would love to go in theory. >> Have you been? >> I have been three times. >> Sure.

I went once somebody was doing my play killer Joe at an independent production. And so I went for that. I was impressed for that. My play Augusto Sage County was done at the National Theatre when Kate Blanchette and her husband. We're running the National Theatre.

So we took our production to the same cast. You took the whole show and took our group down there.

And then the third time was when Carrie was shooting the leftovers.

They shot season three. There were only three seasons. They shot season three in Melbourne. So I have a brother in Singapore. We went, visited him in Singapore.

Got terrible food poisoning. Then went to Melbourne. And we got there earlier than she was supposed to start work. But we were there at the same time, the Melbourne International Film Festival. >> Oh, we know.

>> A very good festival. >> Yeah. >> Like, milth is a milth. And we just became festival goers. We got passes and just went to all the movies.

It was a great way to learn the city and learn the trains and stuff. And we had a great time in milk. >> Milk sounds like a real filth. The festival I'd like to frequent. The thing you were team me up for here on knowingly Tracy,

which I somehow had not brought up at all the series is my brother, James Newman, boarded a plane on New Year's Eve, 2025, and January 1st landed in Sydney, Australia, where he now works full-time as the general manager of the Sydney Basketball team. >> I feel like you have brought this up.

>> I think I haven't done this series.

“I can't remember because of recording order.”

>> Right. >> But my brother is now like an Australian resident. He has a work visa. >> What does he do for the basketball manager? >> He's a general manager.

>> The men's and women's teams.

We are very different people. But I love him very much and I'm very proud. >> They're a very healthy people. The Australians. >> Regardless of their physical attractiveness.

They're always running and jumping in front of you.

There's a lot of running and jumping biking and positive. >> He was calling me and saying, "You're the only person I know who's visited." And I know you've only gone short trips and works and whatever.

What's your takeaway? And I'm just like, the quality of life there seems unbelievable. And on average, not too stereotypositively, people seem happy. >> They do. >> It is like one of the least tense major cities I have ever visited.

>> There's a lot of running. There's a lot of jumping. Every animal can kill you. >> Every thing. >> Every spider around every corner is a skill.

>> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> We're out of anti-toxence. >> Yeah.

>> Be careful when you don't you dare bring in a green bean.

“>> That's why it helps to have a basketball in Sydney though.”

You can just dribble this muscle. >> I have a friend from Brazil. I was talking to her about the stereotype that she, the cute stereotyp. Right.

We're always just all on the beach all the time.

>> Just dashing into the water, that's how I feel like about Australian. >> It's true. >> Yeah. >> But they're all just running up and down the beach and jumping in the water. And I'm firing up the barbecue.

>> I mean, I'm almost definitely going to visit this year. And for the foreseeable future, Sydney is probably a place I go to more than most places. I mean, it's obviously a big commitment trip, but if he keeps working there, I'm going to. >> Good food. >> Yeah.

>> It's a good food. >> Yeah. >> See food and some Asian influence, some spice in the food. It's good. >> David, you held up one thing.

>> Well, some of, and we're funny, just the retone I'm going to film, those largely filmed in the Philippines. >> Yes. >> Although they did shoot some in Australia.

>> It was basically an Australian production.

>> Yeah. >> He treats Witnesses as his first Hollywood film, even though a Hollywood studio came in and rescued this movie at the last moment before production started. But we're also talking about an Australian filmmaker. >> Yep.

>> One of the canonical Australian filmmakers. >> And this is his departure from Australian film. >> See the full farewell. >> Yes. >> And we've been nailing all discussions of Australia up until this point, and is continuing on this episode.

“>> What do we take a moment to pat ourselves on the back for how good of a job was you doing?”

>> Yeah. >> Ben, can you cut in the loudest thumping sound of all time? Or maybe toilet flushes? >> What's this? >> This is blank check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. >> I'm David. >> It's a podcast about filmography directors who have massive success early on in the career, because basically leading the Australian new wave, being certainly one of the leader. >> I'm already throwing a flag on this.

>> Really? >> Yeah. >> He was not a massive success. >> Well, well, well, well, well, you don't think he got there? >> Well, he got there.

But the way you describe the ethos of blank check makes it sound like he had a massive success. And now he's but Tracy, he just has suffered. It's 12 years into this show. We're a little bit out of those guys. >> Oh, not completely out.

>> It's almost like saving. >> Some of those guys are saying, mostly we want to discuss interesting filmmakers. And we are.

“He doesn't quite, I mean, his, what's his most runaway success?”

>> I, the trunche. >> I'd say, I'd say, witness this. >> This is Garen Turf. It happens right after this. >> Witnesses.

>> That's the garen gout, right? >> The garen turf will call the hit that convinces them to hand you the blank check book. And then I think he is a bit of a blank check filmmaker. I do think his studio run. Even though to a certain degree he was a hired hand,

green card obviously more his personal path from project. >> Right. >> Look, the thing is Tracy, if we had a director on and we said, we think that Hollywood gave you a blank check. They would do like, you, us and the fucking,

>> Do you know how hard it is? >> Yeah. >> Even guys we talked about, like Nolan, or Mnichamla who really did get, you know, a lot of power. >> And then I still, like, who's still very hard.

>> Mnichamla now literally funds his own movies and would be like, And would be like, there is no such thing as a blank chat, right? But George Lucas, he's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one who's the one

Right. But George Lucas. He's the close thing. He's the one who started original. And you love him in his films. Sure. Especially right here. He's got a water. Look, this is a best of success early on in the careers. A given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion products they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. This is a film. A mini series on the films a Peter weir is called Padnik at hanging cast. That's right. Which I approve of. Thank you. Okay. So then I give up because what was the other one?

Pudstrern cast mander, colon the pod side of the cast. Really fucking bad. You know what? I can't fight that. This is a man of letters here. This is a fucking Pulitzer prize winner. I'm not going to argue my writing is better. It's Padnik at hanging cast. You will hear no further gripes from me. Who did Gallipoli, but will have already aired by now?

Yes, we wanted an Australian filmmaker especially for Gallipoli. Yes, we tried for several. What's tough is that they live eight trillion hours. Right. We did it. It was like nine PM our time. And it's like the next morning her time. Yes. She was on zoom. We were taking an iPhone. She was drinking coffee. Right, but she rocked. She was really awesome. Do you like Gallipoli? Very much.

Gallipoli. I started very very phenomenal. Had never seen up before. Had never seen this one before. Both of the Mel Gibson films were blind spots.

I do have holes in my Peter we are. What are your thoughts? I mean, sorry. Bit of a bit of a aggressive question there. How are your holes? I'm a master commander. You've never seen a master commander. Interesting. As I learn more about you, you've been on our French on show. Obviously you've, you know, a third chair on the big picture. I just say I'm third. We should let's introduce with proper titles here. Now as he third chair on the big picture, not as only as he a Pulitzer prize winner and drama.

Yes, this is true. Tony Award winner as well as both writer and actor correct. Correct. Got a flex. But most importantly, he is the king of physical media.

“I also one point called him a bad bitch on this podcast. Excuse me. I believe we called him the boss bit. Maybe a boss bit.”

In our awards show episodes, we do annually. I nominated you best supporting actor for indignation. And I believe David responded Tracy let's the boss bitch. Because you'd had a good really good year. It was a good year. You'd been in a lot of stuff that that's when you're in like. Oh, Christine and like weiner dog and the lovers. I don't know. It was like a very very sort of exciting thing. When you meet hitmaker and he gives you the secret. He's like, here's how you make a hit. Wait, when did you meet when when did they were Christine Christine Christine, right, right, right, yeah, yeah.

And he was like the women have to be little and it will go over a hundred million dollars. And you run to Greta Grewegg. I'm holding the hot hand. Tracy lets us here in the studio. Thank you very much for having Tracy. Thank you.

And the blank check. Now you're saying that you've never seen Master in Commander before. I was happy that this is the series that you came on for.

It is one of our great joys in life for David and I when we pick a new director. We put him on the schedule. We immediately crack our knuckles pull uplure.com and go, what do I already have and what are the holes I have to fill and then what's the best addition. And it used to be no domestic release of this too bad. I'm not going to have it. I've started being a no matter what, like any means possible. I'm getting all of them. And this is this is a varied stack here. We got the level at the most party.

Right, this is a French copy of the cars that ate Paris. Who's even the distributor here. Esca additions. Yeah. If I about to re-issue this in 4K got this fucking Mando second site picnic at hanging rock. I got that that's very nice. It's a good box. I just have the criterion of that. It's a very that only has the director's cut and this is the antrical plastic book. You get it's kind of like a better addition. I got them both.

I tried to convince I use this specifically to try to convince Amanda that physical media isn't ugly. I was trying to combat your I live in a game stop thing by being able to look at this is nice. And oh, there are nice ones but sometimes are you will skeptical the really nice ones. Sure. I mean, I have giant boxes of movies that are for like freaking Congo. I mean, maybe Congress ruled because I'm the boxes are great. But then you're like inside is really freaking, you know, Jay, which is a movie I like, but doesn't belong in this.

“I findery. I just bought the umbrella 4K of the live action super Mario Brothers, which I think is a hundred dollars and contains more literature than like the encyclopedia Britannics film.”

It has a four separate book. I enjoyed but like that most people involved with are like a stain on my record. It is objectively dog shit. And I want to be clear. I love that film. It is objectively dog shit and it comes with a book that includes two different scripts, two rejected scripts for that movie. And that's one of only three books included in that box last wave from the aforementioned umbrella of the fine folks.

Yep, I got that. We got Galipoli has just a paramount, a pretty basic loop that only came out recently.

I'm glad they finally put it out.

I've got Galipoli, but I want to look at my. Okay. I wonder if I'm wrong in this. What is the reissue? What do you use? This has a 2023.

I use something called C. L. Z. I use that too. Oh, there you go. Very fond of that. Let's see, Galipoli.

How do we spell that? G-A-L-L. I-T. Yeah, that's what I got. Yeah.

“From a place you've never heard of, comes a story you'll never forget.”

We both agreed in this episode. Kind of a rude tagline. Yeah, a bit. But then I saw you on your letterbox log, where people were getting excited. Oh, fuck is Tracy Lets doing your living dangerously.

Sorry. I didn't realize when I when I logged it. That's people with sports. Oh, no, that's good. But you were posting an anger that you had to watch it on YouTube premium,

The DVD. I actually played them side by side. You're aware of this. What is that? This is a Spanish blueberry.

I've been a little suspicious that it's a bootleg, but it seems like it's not. Have you watched it? Yeah. It looks okay.

There's the look. I would not say it is reference quality. No. Right. It looks like probably YouTube premium just on a disk.

Why isn't this movie? Why do I have a fucking box for Congo on my shelf? Yup. Not a year of living days. This is underground pictures.

They put this out. What's the copyright here for the disc release? I'll figure it out. I mean, this is, yeah, it's got this is 2014. I feel like I'm off on with this.

This is the only country in which any blur I released of this movie has happened. It was 12 years ago. VZMGM United Artists. That's sort of tricky period for this right.

The rights will get weird. That's true.

Isn't that always the answer?

Yeah. No one can untangle. Sometimes I also want to, we'll get into this. But I wonder if there's a feeling of touching us around this movie. Sure.

If we restore this to thoroughly. But spotlight at too much of people going to get up in arms. I'm freaking insane. They're not touching about shade. Sorry.

Yeah. You know, there's other movies that get better. That's touching. That's a touching. The whole time.

I got the arrow witness. I got the dead poets. The basic Disney release screen card. I don't own dead poets. Do you not like it?

Yes. It's synthesis on the same page. It's my least favorite. Yeah. I think mine too.

Fearless. I think it's a Warner archive. Truman. Basic Paramount 4K. Master and Commander got the steel book.

But I assume you don't have that. You have it. I just have a lot of it. Interesting. And then way backs and image release.

I have that as well. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've seen the way back. Do you like Brit shit?

You know what I mean? Like so, like the mastering commander kind of passed you by. Just because it was like sort of a big blockbuster at the time.

“And you were like, like, like, how did it pass you by?”

I wonder. Based on those books, right?

I have no, I've never had no programming in the book.

Because those books. I don't go out to see a movie just because Russell grows in it. I don't not see a movie because Russell grows in it. But he's not automatic. He's not automatic.

You go out to see. Oh, exactly. What about the scene? You know, the shine of your book, I see. Yeah.

It's the Midwesterner and you. You're like, oh, shins there. Thousands of miles away. I have no good reason for not having seen mastering commander. Maybe I'll go home and watch it tonight.

So it's the best. It's one of David's favorite movies. I have not rewatched it since I saw it in theaters. We have not done that episode yet. Can you say what your favorite where is?

My. That one is certainly my favorite. Yeah. My favorite is. Huh.

Yeah. What's your number one? But. Is it true? I thought that feels kind of lame.

But it feels like that might be my answer. Is it this? It's your living day. Yes. Right.

I mean, we. We talked to you when we were planning the series being like Peter weird. Does he spark interest in your living dangerously was your.

“You know, I believe you said it's one of my 50 favorite movies of all time.”

You know, I made a list recently of my favorite movies. I was going to be my top 100 list. Yeah. And it turned out to be about 160 something on my ranked or is it not ranked. Okay, just what's in the pot chronological order and yeah, you're living dangerously

is on that list.

So it's basically at this point.

It's like this is the canon. These are the movies. You were just going through everything you've seen being like. These are my favorite. What these are the things I will watch again that I know and love.

Now you might have sensed. David and I both try to sniff out some of your movie blind spots, right? What don't you like as much? What what haven't you seen and for what reasons? It's because we came into this loaded with a challenge.

Ben producer Ben who is not a physical media guy. I've gifted him a couple of this over the year, but this is not his beat. When we lock down a day and a time to look for it. I should say I have vinyl of a big vinyl collection of love music. Yeah, but as far as yeah movies.

I only really have a handful. Yeah, and he says, you know it would be fun if we tried to give Tracy with a disc that he doesn't already have. And I said, Ben, you don't understand the scale of the challenge you just proposed. That's impossible. And then the more we got into talking to him about how hard that would be.

The more we were like, wait a second. You should try. You should try Ben.

“You should see if you can pick out a movie.”

He hasn't seen and/or placed in his collection and then he bought three. And it sparked a competition in David and we have also each bought three movies for you. Wow. And this is the Tracy let's challenge. There are nine discs that are about to be presented.

Oh, and we want to know are any of these not already in the collection.

Ben, I feel like you should go first since you spurred this whole thing.

“So I want to shout out if we went to night owl video.”

You've been there. It's really a great place. Lovely little place. Nice. It's about a year old.

It's finally bringing physical media stores back to shout out tonight. Yeah. They got a very nice used collection. Very, you know, all the new stuff, obviously. And their motto is death to streamers, physical media forever.

So they're definitely going for it. I was trying to give Ben some some help and strategizing. He also went with our friend, Ben David Grubinski passed in future guests who was sort of guiding Ben through. The understanding of certain labels have subscription programs, Tracy might be pre buying a full year. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. He had mentioned your your subscriber to vinegar syndrome. So I avoided those releases. And we're looking for you want rigorous honesty.

Rigorous honesty. Oh, yeah. Can you read honesty? Absolutely. Because you have about what?

20,000? No. No. That's crazy. 11,000 plus.

So a lot. But as I appreciate you throwing out. The number 20,000 makes them reasonable. 20,000. 20,000 were sort of starting to approach like the amount of movies that might exist.

That's why the challenge is fun. Right. But you buy a lot of stuff and kind of like, I'll get to it. Or I have a completionist surge or whatever. I've seen, uh, perhaps 30% of the movies on my mind.

Right. Because I'm currently in this project.

I've got to fucking watch everything I own on disk that I either never see.

How many days do you have over a thousand? I have over a thousand. I think. I'm nothing like you. But I have a lot.

I think I'm similar now. And my wife is. It goes in one room. And so it's a little mysterious. What's going on?

“I think they're hurt, but like, then she'll glimpse like.”

What's it? And I'm like, no, no, no, no. You live in Brooklyn? Other Brooklyn. So your spaces.

Some, you have some. Some want limited. There's going to have to be. I'm going to need. There's some shelving.

Conversations. I'm trying to have. I need to be mad. See, we bought this house and it had a basement. It looked like a.

It's a very hot ball room. It's just like, oh, well, this is where we can put everything. I mean, I'm very jealous. Tracy, I need you to know that I now often repeat the phrase. All I want is the type of success where I can have a Tracy, let's basement.

It has become basically the driving force of any professional ambitions I have. Is if I can just get a Tracy, let's basement. Imagine having a home where there was space for all of my sickness is the way I think about it. And you can pass your sickness on to your family. Well, that's the real.

Yeah. All right. Well, and so on a preface as well. As far as curation, you saw my porch. Yeah.

So just keep that in mind as like a kind of lens. These are kind of three porch movies. It just helps you understand the kind of sub-loving of porch movies. So, of course, first here I have a limited edition steel book of Asventura Pet Detectives. I do not own this film.

You do not own this film. You've seen it before. I don't think so. Wow. Wow.

You're in store for a good time. Oh, great. How do you feel about James Carrey? Uh, funny. Funny.

Well, the problem is going to come off.

I mean, obviously, not so funny that I've ever sought out Asventura,

“which I think would be one of the touchstone films in his launch pad.”

Right. I will say this was part of my strategy was thinking the 90s might have been the era. Where you were dismissing certain commercial films. Definitely, definitely. I started in the 80s, but certainly extended well into the 90s.

We'll get him more into the 80s, 90s discussion. Great. I will say that I just worked with Peter Farley. I think shot a movie with him called I play Rocky. Yeah.

It's coming out later this year. And at one point, I got a note from him to take it down. And I said, "Wow, the director of dumb and dumber just told me I was a little too broad." That's incredible. In a movie about making Rocky.

Who do you play? And I play right here. I play a fictional bad guy. You'll never make this movie for a while. I'm boxing movies.

No matters. Shut up.

You'll never win best pictures.

You might have actually quoted a few of my lines. Do you like to get that call? There's like the forvers for a great movie and you're very, very good in it. But like, like, it's like, "Oh, fun racing." No, no.

You're the guy who shits on everyone in the office. I think this movie sucks. I wish this movie weren't happening. But then, what's great about for Versus Farley is you get the scene of the emotion. You do break down.

There's that version of that. I turned down a lot of those things. Unless it's got that extra thing. Yeah, that I go, "Oh, this is good. I want to do that extra thing."

And so, I play Rocky as that. No, no. I'm excited for I play Rocky. I am a sucker for that kind of movie. I like that.

I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that. The early word is good.

I'm excited about that. Do you know that the young actor playing Solvester Stallone in the movie is the same young actor who played

One of my obsessions of the last decade. I have not seen it, but he's very good. I almost bought you the offer on DVD. And then I was like, "It's TV and it's DVD. This is a fence."

This is rude. But the offer is one of the more bizarre things ever made. Thank you for the Ace Fincher. I will gladly. All right.

Wait. And it's one of one right. Now one out of one. And so that I should mention that was a shout release. Next we have this is Arrow video.

It is a 4K of spawn. I do not own that. Wow. That doesn't shock. Have you ever seen spawn?

I have not. Mark A.C. Depays spawn. Are you familiar with the character? Is he a vampire or a vampire hunter?

Oh, he's a UFO. He's a UFO. He's a UFO. He's a monster. He's a former soldier.

He's a soldier. Yeah. He dies. He goes to hell and Satan is sort of like, "I'll let you go back to Earth." But you do have to be kind of like a hellish superhero.

He's originally a comic book. Correct. He's a comic-farlane. He's very 90's. He's a very 90's.

A lot of chains. And who directed the film? Mark A.C. Depays who's a legendary special effects artist. He's widely credits being one of the two guys who really cracked CGI for

Jurassic Park.

“And they were like, well, that means you should make a whole movie.”

And he did this.

And I believe he never directed a live action film ever again.

He directs direct to video Garfield sequel. Yeah. Then you're two for two, man. Wow. I'm thrilled.

But this has theatrical directors cut on it. I recommend directors. Thank you. Yeah. And there's some really great special effects.

And that's all I'm going to say. Okay. Roger Eber gave this movie three stars. And then here lastly, we have Trash Humpurs. My harmony current.

I do not own Trash Humpurs. Wow. I knew that was going to be okay. I was, I believe. That was the one that was borderline.

Harmony current doesn't feel like quite your taste zone. But I've also got a couple of harmony current on the show thing. So I'm glad to have Trash Humpurs on this. Hell yeah. Yeah.

I'm a big fan of his work. And I just, I can't believe three for three. Well done. Incredible. Well done.

David, would you like to go next? Sure. Why not. All right. Okay.

First off, this is the most obvious one.

You might have this one. This is arrows. Yes. A 4K release of Dominic Sanders film swordfish. Okay.

He's checking the check in his database here. Which is what I thought. Where you, I doubt you've seen swordfish. I have seen it. All right.

You've seen it. Okay. So I was wrong. But one of those roles. Like, did you buy it?

Just because there's a nice new addition out of a sense of completion. I do not own. Okay. - How do you feel? - How do you feel? - How do you feel? - How do you feel?

- Of course, John Travolta. - Don't you? - Yeah, John, a role that you would play now in this movie, where it made today Sam Shepard's role as the US Senator, who's sort of like, "Stop, yeah, Travolta. You've got to cut out your whatever it is.

- I don't think you're computer. - You're right. (laughing) And Travolta's, it's interesting and shoots some death in like Utah or some extravagant location. - Just to make sure I'm thinking of the right film,

Halle Berry, nude scene, very famous. - Very famous, they leaked, this, this, oh, terrible leak came out from the studio, oh, she's filming a nude scene, an extra scene, his leaked, oh, who could have spilled this info?

(laughing) - He was so, like, a momentarily, someone sent them a long range tracking report and they were like, "Can we leak the, can we pay Halle Berry another million dollars?"

- There's a moment in the trailer of her undressing,

“and I remember being surrounded by teenage boys,”

and being a teenage boy at the time, people being like, "I hear if he keeps taking close off." - Like, the buzz was really strong. - It's a scene in the film, her nude scene, that I would say, doesn't feel entirely dramatically

comfortable to that. - But she's sunbathing, and then it just drops the cover, I guess her breasts, I hear. - I hear seeing the movie, I guess. - That's 60 seconds.

- On this one, the back. - The nude scene is what it's sort of known for. I think this is a crazy text. Like, this is a bizarre, like, when Halle would sort of like, we should be doing like cyberpunk, Tarantino movies.

And then, like, one year later, they were like, you know, like, we got a star. Who directed this one? - Dominic Senna, who has got a condy-secretary make. - Yeah.

- He did, he was, he was a finisher guy. He was one of the finisher staples.

- He always gets Senna and Simon West confuses.

- Right. - And he was both a finisher guy. - They're both, yeah. - He did that kind of nasty Brad Pitt movie, California, if you remember that,

like a serial killer movie. - Yep. - He was, you know, all sizzle. - No say? - Mediums. - Mediums is mostly.

- You guys are for, for, for, for. - All right, all right, all right. Oh, he did season the witch, which I love. Have you ever seen season of the witch? - I have.

- Great movie. - One of our finances. - All right. - Next up, this is, this is a strange one. This is the DVD, use the DVD.

- Wow. - Wow. - Wow. - Scott Alexander and Larry Kersuski screwed. - Let's check in the database, now. - Now, this is Griffin, an exceptionally strange movie.

- I agree with that? - Yes.

“- I believe it has never been what he's done.”

- Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't.

- I'd like to medium use here.

We've got some crinkling on this. I'm sorry to get you this. - It is an odd kind of blank check movie 'cause they had such success as screenwriters that people went, we should let these guys make a whole film

and it was trying to launch arguably three comedy stars at the same time. - Well, it's trying to launch, it's sort of trying with Norm again, Normic Donald around the dirty work era, like our little after.

- I think it's almost contemporaneous. - And then Dave Chappelle, it's sort of half baked era. - Yeah. - Dave Chappelle. - I'm sorry. - I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. - Yeah. - Yeah, sure. - Sure, she's in there. - But Larry doesn't disown this movie, right?

I mean, Larry, he's fond of--

“- I think they're both, it was one of those moves”

that he had no idea how to market. It has one of the weirdest trailers. They clearly just have no idea what to tell you about this movie. - It is so odd.

- 'Cause it's quite odd and kind of vulgar. - I was gonna say it's in this category, I would classify as like big budget studio versions of John Waters' material. You know, and I think it's a little post like something

about Mary, people want gross out. It is very dark, it's very odd. - Oh, thanks, five for five. - The veto is great, man.

- Doing great, finally, crank high voltage.

(coughs) - I've not seen crank high voltage. - Have you seen crank? - I haven't seen crank, I've actually been on a bit of a stethom, uh, tear, wow.

- Wow. - You've seen a stethom, uh, - I've not gotten to it yet. - Both vital, I'm sorry that I went for high voltage here because the completionist in you now means you'll probably end up buying crank as well.

This is the sequel, crank high voltage. - Is Joan Allen in one of these movies? - Joan Allen is in death-phrase movie. - A movie I really fight for. She plays the, I, no, I was gonna say she plays

“the Tracy Letts, I don't want you doing death-phrase.”

It is the opposite. She is the evil prison warden. - Right. - She's like, you mother fuckers better death-phrase. And there's a bit in that movie that I love

where Joan Allen goes on like a 32nd Terrence has every American curse word six times. - Nice. - 'Cause she's angry now. - I've taken this breaking her system. - For a while, the, my, uh, treadmill watches

were, uh, TV shows, keeping up with the TV shows, but it just became too painful. And so what I've been doing is you're gonna fall asleep but it shows the dead episodes before they do what he put. - Right, it wasn't an enticement to get back

on the treadmill. - Right. - So I've been catching up on a lot of action for 90s, 2000s action. Like I've watched the equalizer series. - I saw you long ago.

- Yeah, extremely good. - Tracy, extremely sorry. - I had to consider buying you the equalizer trilogy. So I did some cross-referencing. We were just talking about those movies.

I love them so much. - I make me so much. - Just to pitch you on crank, crank the first crank of the ideas, it's speed but with his heart. So he has to keep his heart rate above a certain.

You can crank heart ball to jibbley. He's been given an artificial heart.

“So he has to literally grab onto like, use electric cords”

and bite them to just wait really. - The first sounds fun. - And with him dying. - Right. - And it was enough of a hit that justified the sequel

with what if they put an electric carton him. But it resulted in one of the greatest taglines of all time, which is. - Which is he was dead but he got a lot better. - Yeah, he got better.

- Mr. State, they've never made a movie

that he couldn't find his way to make a sequel. - Absolutely. - All doors are open in the world of Jason State. I like this era of his better, which was more martial artsy, versus this new one where it's like, he's a gentle gardener.

But he used to, and then like some nice old lady dies and he has to go kill Hillary Clinton in the other. - Yeah, but be keepers and cranky. - Be keepers. - Have you seen Be Keeper?

- I have seen Be Keeper. - Be Keeper is just so insane in the world at establishes. - I forget which crank it is. One of the cranks has one of my favorite gags, which is Japanese guys talking to him

and you see the subtitles and state them as so out of it that you've been cut to a reverse of state them looking at the subtitles. - Like the shot is reverse going on. - Now being in Taylor.

- All right, so I got three for three, two, six, four, six. - Four, six. - Okay, wow. - I took a very specific strategy. - And I was like, I feel like the 90s are the zone

where you were maybe not keeping up as, omnivorously with all the commercial assignments. - I think that's true. - And Be also, you talk about on your on your physical media episodes, so if they picture the things

you were watching with your children. And I was sort of trying to triangulate your children's tastes where things are going. And I'm like, are there movies that I grew up with that you would not have seen at the time,

but that might be good to introduce your children to. - I like that. - They can come grip stands. - I'm disagree with it. - They can also serve.

- Maybe they could. - It knocks these discs a little higher up on the watch list because there's a little bit of an activity. - Okay.

- So first of all, Joe Dante's 1998 picture small soldiers. Have you seen it? - I have not seen small soldiers. - And I assume that means you don't own it?

- I do not. - Okay. - Nor have I seen. Joe Dante. - I didn't even know it was Joe Dante.

- You're making a suremanesque statement. (laughing)

'Cause I went, I bet Tracy has respect for Joe Dante.

- Sure. - But he lost track of the last couple. - I did. I did not know that was his film.

“- This incredible film about the military industrial”

complex, about the the corporatization of a mayor. - Is that a person on the level? - So it is about a tech company, a military tech company that buys a toy company and they're endless sort of gobbling up, a conglomeration of everything.

And decide to try to make this film's very relevant now. Basically AI toys. What if GI Joe's could actually do shit? And they put military microchips in them and they start literally waging war on our backyard

to realize that. - Are there people in the film? - Yes, there are. Is not an anime film as a live action film? - This is Major Chip Hazard, who is the main villain

toy voice by Tommy Lee Johnson. And Franklin Jella, our leader of the Gorgonites, but this film stars, Kirsten Dunst, Gregory Smith, great Kevin Dunn, Phil Hartman's final film performance, Dennis Leary, David Cross, and Magnus Stennis.

It's got a really good cast, Jay Moore, of course. It was that era where we were trying to make that happen. But it's a wonderful film. I think it's a razor sharp satire. - You guys are very funny.

- Are you guys are killing it? - Big action. - I'm gonna show that to my son. - Yeah, I think he will like it. It's got, it's not, I know he's very into kigeri film.

I know it is not a big film. - I should film up big. - There's a similar, yeah, energy of chaos. - Creature featurey kind of.

“- The first question is always, is there a creature?”

- It is mostly very small animatronic puppets, you know, of monsters fighting armament now. - Got it. And humans being like, the fuck is going on. One of the best films of 1998.

Similarly, this comes from, this was DreamWorks, when DreamWorks was launching and Spielberg was like, we need a family slate. We need Amblin-esque pictures. And he greenlit odd versions of Amblin-esque pictures

that didn't quite perform as well as they should have at the time.

Gorver Binsky's mouse hunt, his first film.

- I do not own mouse hunt, nor have I ever seen it. - Wow, you like that. - This is quietly one of the best film craft films of the '90s. If this movie came out tomorrow,

best cinematography, best art direction, best sound, best editing, people would be like, nothing has looked this good since the '50s. - Who directed mouse hunt? - Gorver Binsky.

- Oh, you just said it. - It is his first film, it is him caching in the heat of directing the Budweiser Frog commercials.

“And it's a script that's just, these two guys”

are trying to catch a mouse. And he's like, what if it has the aesthetics of Delicatessen, he built an insane house, he insisted on doing almost all of it with real mice. They had like 16 mice who they trained as actors.

It's Nathan Lane and Lee Evans. - Lee Evans. - But it's also, it's Christopher Walken's in it. - More shakens in it. - Sure.

- It's William Hickey's last performance ever. - Oh yeah. - Wonderful film. So it recently had film form. - It's a beautiful four kit.

- It was his reference quality. - If you score this last one, nine for nine. - This is my biggest swing, 'cause this is more recent, but I had a feeling that you just kind of opted out on this whole series.

This is, I picked, it's an excellent adventure picture. It's a family story, done in a style. I'd say almost heightened to melodrama with the broad kind of allegorical storytelling of your biblical epics of your.

It is called Avatar the Way of Water.

- I've never seen Avatar the Way of Water.

- Did you blind buy it? - I did not blind buy it, I do not own it. - Nine fresh discs. Now did you see the first one? - Did you see the first one?

- I've never seen one of the happens. - My guess, that you just went, not my thing. - Right? - I've done, yeah, he's a heavy seat. - This is a ripper on adventure about how we have lost

touch with nature. - So now I have to go by the first one. - This is the problem. - We're making homework for you here behind these sequels. - It's a boy and a whale.

- Yeah, right. - The mighty Chia Khan, who you will be thrilled to meet. - How long is that movie? - It was not talking about one time. - What is a run time?

- Well, just in terms of showing it to my son. There are, you're son of the into it, I would imagine. - Just some will be into it. - It might split over a couple. - That's 1952 minutes long.

- 1952, fucking minutes. - It's just longer than lords of Arabia. - It might be longer than lords of Arabia. - It'd be longer than lords of Arabia. - But as your son seen lords of Arabia,

it's actually, you know what, lords of Arabia is longer. - Lords of Arabia is almost four hours long. - Is it really? - It's really, really long.

- This is four discs. So after you watch the movie, you can go into the making off. - You know, recently Sean and Amanda, on the big picture podcast,

we're talking about how even if you're not into it, it's undeniable that the specialness of special effects are in fact kind of jaw-dropping

when you watch a lot of A-Isla.

“- I would agree. - I agree. - Or CGIsla, it is very much.”

- Yes, it stands in opposition to that. And we agree that it is the best of the three. - Yes, absolutely. - Really? - Yes, I think this equals the best. - I do think you could watch it whole.

It does a pretty good job of table setting at the beginning of the film. And there's such a big time jump between the first and the second that there is a bit of a clean entry point.

- Now, I have to say you guys have done absolutely beautiful work in collecting these nine disks. I'm really impressed and I'm really happy to have them in my collection. And I'm happy to give all of them a spin, all of them.

Does anybody listening to this give a shit about what we're talking about? - Yeah. - Oh, very deeply. - You're kidding me? - Oh yeah. - You go on Sean's podcast,

which is bigger than this podcast. And you guys speak at length on these matters.

- I always assume that those episodes

are just very niche, that there's just a very, there's a small, but dedicated number of people. - But this is a growing area of interest for people, I feel like, I do feel like there's this general person, like this is just feeling amongst film fans

of like, it's just not good out there. - It's bad and we need to take a stand and we need to do something. - So annoying, sifting through these streaming services, so annoying, kind of like trying to find the best version

of, you know, and like it's so satisfying to own something. - I don't know, I don't know. I can just hear a lot of pissed off film guys going. What do you mean he's never seen Ace Ventura? What? - Who is this ass?

- It's a balance. - It's a balance. - It's a balance. - It's a balance. - People got to come to blank check and understand this is the flow. This is the natural order, you know?

“- Have you ever had anybody on this show older than me?”

- Yes, your father. - My father, are you willing to say your age on my 60? - Yeah, my father. - My father's been only on Patreon, but he is 73. - No, she's 73. I believe Clint McElroy.

- Oh sure. - Amy Irving. - Amy Irving. - That's great, Amy. - She was only on Patreon though. Colin Quinn, I believed, you know, I think Colin Quinn is older than you.

- I would think. - I think so. - Colin Quinn is six years older than you. - Yeah. - There you go. - Yeah, you're rubbing it in the space there. - Yeah. - So unfortunately, you don't get,

you get to retain the crown as king of physical abilities. - Let me tell you, a few people who are older than me. - I'll surprise you. - Yeah. - We do it with there's one last, a disc reveal. - Oh, yeah. - The remainder of the bag,

you mentioned, of course, your physical media episodes on the big picture, which started out as just you and Sean and then grew to include Chris Ryan and Tim hit maker assignments as well. There was one person who has been desperately trying

to make his way onto the physical media high council. - Well, I'll read this note, he left. Mr. Let's please accept this meager offering of physical media. Sorry, it's hard to read his handwriting. It's really chicken scratch here.

Representing some of my movies, only two are reference quality. It's less about hoping you watch and enjoy and more of the honor of contributing my work to the definitive archive, Alex Ross Perry.

“- Oh, Alex Ross Perry, how lovely, and what did he send?”

- He gave you three of his films, which is her smell, pavements, and listen up Philip. - Yes. - I own listen up Philip. - You won't listen up though.

- This same the Eureka edition? - Yes, wow. - I own that. - But I'll take it. - Wow.

- I mean, this is like an epic elf that we went fucking nine for nine, an orb gets up to bat and immediately you fucking imported one of his movies. - I haven't watched it, I should watch it.

- It's actually like a incredible drama

and you did a great performance. - Yeah, yeah, price is incredible on it. I don't know if you, I'm another, you know, a theater legend in his own right. - We'll also did y'all a face, which--

- I was gonna say it. - It's important to our discussion today if we're ready. - Yeah, I think it's interesting. (upbeat music)

- David, yes, this episode is Brought to you. - Bye. Moobie! Ah, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema. Ahhhh, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film

Ah, the Global Film Company, the Champion's great cinema, the Global Film Company's great cinema, the Global Film Company. Iconic Directors emerging our tours, always something new to discover movies. Films are handselected, you can explore the best of cinema. You know they have a new movie that's streaming on the U.S. It's Father Mother's sister brother, it's the Jim Darmish movie of last year, the one that Golden Lion. This is a feminist. Ever-gretfully, regretfully, regretfully, you and I both didn't get chance to catch up with.

But now, I will be able to enjoy this funny, tender and gently-moving exploration of the Universal intricacies of family dynamics. Tom Waitz, Adam Driver, Maya Biolic, Charlotte Rampling, why are you listening?

It's about the relationships between adult children, their somewhat distant parents or parents and each other, I simply cannot relate.

“I know, right? Having a complicated relationship with your parents. So you can watch that and you can watch all the other great stuff they've got at movie.”

Just stream the best of cinema. You can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com/blankcheck. That's mubi.com/blankcheck for a whole month of great cinema for free. By the way, the big picture has come up a couple of times here. They did a 1988 drag. I'm in the middle of listening to this, I was not invited. I said to them, you know, I'm going on blank check tomorrow. And maybe if the blank check guys adopt me, you know, we're all New Yorkers, we're New Yorkers.

I was like maybe I wind up jumping ship. The text I got from Sean was pretty definitive. You even think it's fucking right for one fucking second.

I was having a fun time listening to it. That's an interesting year, 88. And I really, I respected Chris Chris is buying to their Chris Ryan's binder of getting the number one pick where it's like you're on the big picture. You know, it's like you have to pick die hard. That's sort of like that. And he he lost midnight run and I felt from his midnight run. Well, I spent them immediately upon conclusion. I sent them a few movies. They left off.

“And I think the 88 draft that I would have such as Gladlet. Well, thin blue line would be top of great infinity and just like how is this not on me would be a beautiful use of a wild card pack.”

Yeah, did it get snobbed for best documentary. Yeah, of course. It was right. He wasn't doing what that branch appreciate it. You know, he was doing something new. So he was they never liked so you'd have to take it wild card. I think did he eventually win for fog of war? Like I feel like they eventually gave her a mask. And he also did the fucking the stuff for the Oscar he did. Those were fun. Yeah, he won for fog of war though. That's his only ever Oscar nomination. Like they were, you know, they were always kind of like too snooty for him.

Just one of the most incredible last and cultural artifacts is from Errol Morse doing those that Oscar intro one year where he interviewed people about their favorite movies. We have the clip of Donald Trump looking into the terror in terror. What do you call terror? Right. And talking about why he loves citizen can and miss reading it on foot. Right. It's a movie about a guy who gets everything a big house. I think he literally says it's a movie about a guy who gets everything.

“That reminds me. I was at a, I was at some party in Los Angeles and David Zassloff. I was with Carrie and some of the other.”

And he was so excited to see them. And we came to realize after a while. I was like, Oh, the robber barren are his heroes.

Of course, I hope you're ramming that railroad right across America. I got my favorite thing in the Golden Age is any time Morgan Spectre's character is just like, I feel like I need to go, you know, kill 10,000 railroad guys just to just to get my rocks off, you know, just really got to like go fight with JP Morgan about something. I love the Golden Age where I got a Golden Age is number one kind of show for me where I can Google after and like act and learn about the author. David just said this in our our way back episode with with Alex Frost Perry.

Have you seen Peter Wears the way back one of his least seen films is final film. The film about escapees from the Gulag who wrecked across the Goby desert all the way to India. I remember my mom watching it and saying, This is really good. How am I didn't see this fucking it's if it was completely ignored on release it's a fairly handsome like, you know, solid. It's not his best movie. David was saying he loves anything. Any watch that can cause him to open up some Wikipedia tabs and start to know afterwards. I'm like going in the 50s what was going on. Yeah, like stuff. I want to hear your other 1988 snubs.

Let me consult. I'm guessing the cure wasn't picked. I haven't finished here was not picked. It's also trying to think of like definitive 88 movies that probably are too niche. He complaining about how bad the sequel slate is it was very bad and in fact, Amanda asked me specifically what my pick would have been really bad.

I can't you have Halloween four hellraiser to nightmare four, but I'm just immediately here. No one's not great with thriller open. No one picked child's play and no one picked dead ringers. Dead ringers was definitely on my list. I think they mentioned it in their honorable mentions, but not good enough. Another woman, the Woody Allen movie, another woman, which, you know, that would have been surprising pick would have been, but because I listened to the New York draft.

“You have to think the rain tops and that one didn't pick Woody Allen. No one didn't pick Woody Allen.”

No one didn't pick Woody Allen. I want to make it clear.

My name was never settled or you were suspicious. We weren't in front of a live audience.

We weren't in front of a live audience. Backstage there wasn't like a blood pact like we all agree no one's going to utter his name. It did not happen. No, I think if we were not in front of a crowd. I don't know though. Like who knows? Because the whole populist agenda of the drafts of like you're supposedly trying to win the audience's favor. I see. I see, right?

I will say the other thing with Woody Allen in a New York movie draft. Is it like, okay, well, so do you figure Manhattan is the pick there? There's other definitive New York movies. Well, you know, we saw like what's the New York movie? It's more the canon than the idea if he has one film that feels most representational of New York.

And the one that's named after a burrow and has a poster. And has some great fucking photography on hand. But I'm really good on New York movies. Yeah. Well, I would probably pick Manhattan.

But certainly if somebody picks any hall in comedy or henna or sister's or not, these are not shocking. No, not wrong. Han on her sisters. The Bayer 1988.

Sean Shaw. Yeah. The Bayer, the Bayer, the Bayer, the Bayer actor. It's a great, yes, Bart the Bayer plays the Bayer. It is a, it's a nature film shot really from the Bayer's perspective.

Mm-hmm. It's very good. I have never seen that. I have never seen that. And that is a genre of movie that doesn't exist anymore.

This is a gentle nature focus plot light. You know, it's not that gentle. That's the good thing. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, there's, there's fucking in it.

There's psychedelic drugs. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, the Bayer is kind of like, the animal drama doesn't exist anymore. Right. On a tapestry from like, you know, black stallion to the Bayer, it used to just be like once

or twice a year. Yeah. There would be a bucket for this movie. We went to the jungle. You're gonna love it.

And we're like, we think we got this animal to act. Never cry wolf. You guys know that? Oh, yeah. I've never seen it.

That's beautiful. Yeah. There's no good physical media. That's Carol Ballard. That the kind of king of what we're talking about.

Terrific. Yeah. I had my neighbor towed a row, but then Sean informs me. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not quite the right release. It's tough. You can call it an 88 movie. But to me, that's one where it's like, you can't go by the American date

because that movie was never properly released in America.

It got a fucking trauma release. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Hairspray.

Hairspray's a great movie. Uh, things change. Never seen. Never seen David mammoth. Oh, man, tanya and Donna Michi.

Very good. It's the poster with her in the back of the limo, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's a very good movie.

And there's a good disk of that, too. I think it's a indicator. Has a nice disk of that. And then the lansy to back of the limo. I'm manned up.

A fucking trash. And my comedy pick. Uh, chicken and duck talk. Chicken and duck talk. Never heard of it.

Look at it up. Okay. That looks like it's a Chinese film. Hong Kong, Hong Kong. Yeah.

Yeah. Michael, we very funny. Don't know it. Chicken and duck talk. Okay.

I was pretty astounded that, uh, Fantasy didn't pick police story, too. He mentioned it as I considered it.

“I'm like, yeah, you should have considered it.”

And then picked it. That's a good move. Mr. Pizza, did that get picked? Uh, Amanda chose crossing to lansy over Mr. Keyes. This is really fun.

How we're re-litigating. I think I know. And I will make it this right now. But my last, uh, Clint Eastwood's bird. I think one of his best movies is 78 films.

That's an incredible film.

Don't worry. I did not draft that. They did not. A little quiet. The one I want to ask you about Tracy,

because I feel like a couple times now, Big Picture has done sort of a drive by of apathy towards this movie. And I like it quite a bit. Clean and sober. The Michael Keaton film.

I like it quite a bit too. I think that's a very good film. I think I mentioned it actually on their podcast, on one of the physical media podcasts, because I was talking about the value of the Warner Archives.

Yes. Right.

“And I think that's kind of something about sort of standard issue releases.”

They're very clean. There's no extras to speak out. There's no giant boxes. It's just here's the movie in a nice clean presentation. And it might not have been kind of a big deal movie at the time.

But I really like clean and sober. I think it's a very good movie. And as a person sober for a long, long time.

Get for psychology of that right. I was on the Michael Keaton film.

“But Michael Keaton's maybe my favorite living actor.”

But I was on the Michael Keaton Mount Rushmore. Yes. It was kind of a bad episode. It was a fun episode with you guys talking about Keaton. But the four big Keaton movies was actually fairly easy for you guys.

So the problem is it's easier and more interesting to pick eight to ten Keaton movies than it is for.

Because the four are always going to be pretty chalk. But they were just like it was not in the conversation for them. And I went in there being like clearly. This is one of his key texts. Well, they get weird about some of that stuff.

And I can say in fact, to bring it back to Peter Weir. Please, it comes up with witness. You know, Amanda and I really love witness. Amanda gets great movie. We will spoil.

We'll be on the witness episode. John gets. Amanda's going to be on the witness episode. We recorded a course in the video. John gets a look on his face.

Like his ass is sucking lemon. And he says. Is it a great movie? Yeah. And I go.

“Now look, it depends on where, you know, it's all relative.”

Right.

We could say seven samurai and Lawrence.

Bicycle. These are great movies. And these other movies are. But if you're going to live in a world where you're telling me that a few good men and Pelican brief are great movies.

And God damn right witness is great. Yes, yes. All this is also definitively a great movie. I think that's. It is analogous to.

Yeah. Well, you're like, well, like, making samurai movies in the Japanese film industry at that time was akin to doing like a programmer. And he was elevating it to such a high level. I'm not saying witness is the seven samurai of cop movies.

But I think there is a similar. Okay. But what is the most thoughtful intelligent deliberate. New wants detailed lived in version of this and it is what makes Peter wear a blank check film maker.

Arguably, I would say, not in this film where he had a little bit of a blank check in the Australian film industry up until this point. This starts to transition him, especially with Mel Gibson being a guy who had crossed over. But then once he makes witness work at that level.

And here's just what should be a cop action movie drama that is now on a for best picture best director gets Harrison Ford is only acting nomination. It's like every a list actor in Hollywood wants to work with this guy. They want to bring their passion projects to him as he can lend integrity to

them. But that is the next chapter of his career that ends with the film we're talking about today.

“Well, I think he showed a particular skill at a kind of stranger in a”

strange land story, which seems to be a theme running through a lot of Peter weird point. Even something like Dead Poets Society, like which is ostensibly an inspirational teacher. Robin Williams is the stranger in a strange man there.

Yeah. I have a card for sure. Yes. I have, you know, continued to say this kind of quickly because I lack the knowledge and the intelligence to make this point more thoroughly, let alone the historical context.

But especially watching his early Australian films, it feels very informed by a man who has spent a lifetime trying to reckon with his relationship to the country he lives in. Do I belong here? What is my ownership over this place?

Does this place own me? Who has been disposed in my favor, you know? And it feels like his films are constantly cultures kind of budding up against each other and interrogating each other and and people crossing those lines and feeling out of sorts in their world.

Did I read correctly that this year of living dangerously is a recent rewatch for both of you? He'd never seen it. I saw this film several years ago, but I did rewatch it for this show. When did you watch it last time?

For the first time ever last night?

Yeah. I like to be fresh and test. Yeah. What do you think? I liked it quite a lot.

It is an interesting film. I have so greatly enjoyed, you know, the exercise of the show where we cover someone's full filmography. At times, even when it's a great career, you start to get into a feeling of, for like months, I've just been on this one guy's wavelength.

And it's starting to get a little same even if I can extracate the values of each individual film, I'm in a bit of a loop here. And other times, the photography is so disparate that you're just like, I'm swinging all around here. I don't have any grounding force.

I have just by and large felt the cruising altitude of Peter weir movies is so comforting to me. There is this kind of like thoughtful patience to his films.

Both in terms of actually the text but also the craft that you can feel the intentionality and the thought. And that's force you to sort of lean in and try to interrogate what the person is doing.

And this movie does have just such an incredible vibe to it.

In a very basic fundamental way, I don't know how many films I've seen that more accurately capture the feeling of being in a foreign country. Just the basic feeling of I have landed in a place and I'm trying to acclimate to how this place works. And so much of this movie is the interrogation of who are the people who landed here and act like they already own it, who are the people here who are trying to claim ownership, who are the people fighting to be seen within it.

“And I also love any time it can be pulled off a movie about a fairly, how would I put this?”

He's not a weak lead character, but he's almost irrelevant to the movie and a certain way. He does not drive the action. No, he's changed by the action and the movie is, okay, I guess I'm leaving this now. He's pretty shallow. Yeah, and he gains obviously some depth.

Right, it goes along and he gains some understanding of the way things really work, which is what I love about this movie. I think it's okay. Yeah, it's okay. We're as early films, which this thing we've discovered in doing this is that, like, he came out of a background of sketch comedy, like performing and directing and then directing sketch comedy leads to directing theater and then directing film.

And his early works, especially his short films, feel way more kind of barbed. And pointed in their kind of satire of this kind of guy, a sort of well-meaning liberal white man who wants to be involved in causes, who wants to help and doesn't quite get it. And this feels like this interesting, I mean, this movie is just the transition point of, like, everything in his career. But he's basically removed any of the satirical edge from the character.

He is presenting it very earnestly, but he is also presenting kind of how unimportant he is. And even in the framework of it being like, oh, right, he's not telling the story.

“But I think it's also like about an Australian becoming alienated from, like,”

where he's, like, it's about Australians becoming alienated from, like, the Western world or, like, the way the Western world works, and the way the Western world operates on the rest of the world, right? And he's going in there being like, I'm like, he's British guys. And he's American, right? Like, I'm in this mix, and then becoming alienated from, which I think is so interesting, especially that it's wears last Australian film before he joins Hollywood.

And he does so well in Hollywood, and I don't ever feel like he, like, you know, he never, like, made shit there, right?

Like, he always did his own movies, but it's interesting that he sort of says farewell to Australia by with that. And the first films are just so thoroughly about him interrogating his own sense of identity as an Australian of his generation, and how he sees the world from that experience. Well, I mean, the character of Guy makes basically one ethical decision in the whole movie, and it's the wrong one, right? Totally fed by his ambition, and without any sense of context.

Like, I'm here to do this job, and I don't care who gets hurt as a result of me doing this job. As long as it gets me what I'm, what I'm after.

“And yeah, I think you're going to read that as personal on the part of weir, especially given as you say,”

he's about to go to Hollywood. He's about to leave Australia. He's about to become, that, I mean, he's going to become quite a player on the world cinema scene. I don't know if he's making this film because we have a dossier research, I'm going to open it up, but like, he've been trying to make this for years. This was a long-standing passion project to fit, so he's not making it in this sort of swansongy way. But it's interesting how it sort of worked out. Have you ever read the book, the Christopher Koch book?

I think it's coach. I was about to say, you know, with a, that spelling you never know how to write.

Christopher Koch is 1978 book, which is based on his younger brother's life. His younger brother was a reporter in Indonesia during. Is this the dossier? Have you opened it? Yes, it's on Facebook. It's on Facebook.

Yeah, how is it going to be? It's a cool dog. Especially given year of living dangerously, you kind of want it. Yes, right. Yeah, it's a male-folder right out of the fallow shadow puppets.

So his brother, you know, was in Indonesia for the fall of the story. In Indonesia for the fall of the Sikarna regime, we are reads the book. And by reads it in a single day and will inquires for the rights like immediately.

I don't know what that is. S-A-T-E. Yes. Interesting. Not sure.

“I think it's just a different spelling of saute.”

The Tang of Cloves cigarettes, the distant sound of the Gamalan, the exotic Japanese atmosphere. He, you know, his whole thing I feel like with where is he has these like aesthetic reactions to stories or whatever. It's like he'll read a script and be like, "Yeah, that's interesting." But then once in a while he reads a script where he's like, "Oh, I can't stop thinking about the world."

Like the, you know, and that's always seems to be why he just pursues a project.

He reads a thing. He goes, "This is overwhelming. I could never touch this." And then he can't stop thinking about that. Like the lippily is him walking on the beaches right in Turkey. Yeah, and seeing this like can from an Australian medication bottle. Right.

Yeah. Being like, "Oh, my God." And like then not being able to let go of like right. Our boys were here with their shit. And then last wave was basically the same thing.

Like literally finding an object in a space and then going like, "Oh, so who is the person who left this here?" David, it's scared. Real me. Yeah, right. It's sate. Okay, right.

It's just a thought differently. Probably JJ's hall. Yeah, it's probably fire. Have you seen the last wave? Obviously single. Hopefully have you seen, yes.

Last wave is pretty cool. Yeah.

And that was recently put on a disc Christmas.

Um, Brella has had a disc out for quite a while. I missed out on the deluxe edition. I had a disc. I had a disc out for quite a while. I missed out on the deluxe edition.

I had a disc. I had the old criteria. The DBSA, right. They only have it on DVD.

“They haven't announced, I think, a Blu-ray or a 4K yet.”

It is a movie that they own outwrecked. Yeah, so like it is a movie that domestically is owned by criteria. And so I think it is coming soon, hopefully. So we're, uh, we're trying to make the Thornbirds, which of course eventually got turned into a miniseries. I don't know if you know this.

I mean, uh, he gets sort of diverted onto Gallipoli, but then the investors withdraw from Gallipoli. So then he turns to your living dangerously. Then report Murdoch himself funds Gallipoli. And so he gets put back to Gallipoli.

So your living dangerously is back Bernard. He had visited Asia in the 60s. Briefly, I guess in his sort of, he went to Colombo, which is the Cavalry Lanka. While he was traveling up through Europe, uh, he was very intrigued by it. Uh, Bolly had become a vacation spot for him.

So Bolly is obviously a different island in Indonesia.

I've never been to Indonesia.

I will admit now. I have not either. I've heard of course. It's been many times now. Dan Ben, yeah, you're always talking there.

I would love to someday. Yes. Yeah, my wife's been to Indonesia, but she lived in China for years. So she's been everywhere. Like have been shown up for years?

Yes, do you not know that? No. Uh, do you not know that my wife is fluent in Mandarin? This is so surprising for someone I'm so close with. Your friend has known my wife since since they were teenagers.

I went to high school with David's wife. So I like to contend correctly that I'm actually closer with her than he is because I've known her longer. Is that how you guys met? No. No.

Completely coincidence. We became friends and he was like, you want to hear something funny. I'm going on a date tomorrow with someone you went to high school with. Oh, wow. Oh, so you guys, your friendship actually predates your relationship with your wife.

Correct. Here is the order. Very much. His wife. I meet David.

They meet each other. I know both of them better than they know each other. So true. Three kids. Hairs.

But you don't know that she's fluent in Mandarin or that she's lived in China. That she lived in China. Is it working as a teacher living in Hunan province? Okay. But because she lived in China, she was like, oh, I'm in fucking China.

I'm going to go everywhere. Yeah. And so she's been to Indonesia. She's been to Thailand and Cambodia, Japan. What's this right after college?

Yeah, right after college. So those are the years we fell out of touch. But she was in freaking China. It was hard to contact. I think.

But she says it's very cool. You know, she's, yeah. Anyway. Can I circle back to a thing? Yeah.

I know we'll have covered this in Gallipoli.

“But I think it's important kind of restating.”

Rupert Murdoch invested all this money into the idea of, we got to start weaponizing what's coming out of the Australian new wave, not out of as much a sense of cultural pride, national pride as I think there's money in them hills. All these good filmmakers seem to be making interesting stuff. An industry that is still so small.

Can we turbocharge that by throwing money into it? And so that's how he ends up fully financing Gallipoli. And it was part of what was supposed to be a company that was going to be making this a larger project. It is the only film they ever make. But Gallipoli gets all this fucking investment.

His budget jumped way up from what he had done before because of Murdoch. And the other thing is that there's this energy. It's why Gallipoli gets more of an American distribution deal up front with everyone post mad Max being like, how do we get Mel Gibson to Hollywood? How do we cross this bridge?

This guy is just clearly like a raw element of movie star. If an Australian filmmaker has Mel Gibson, they've like opened a bunch of doors into our offices.

Great question.

“I think it's basically like the first film that is marked as like, you know, the Australian new wave”

is like waken fright or the comedy stalk. Even though 70's won. We've been corrected. Waken fright is directed by Ted Coch who is not in fact. This is the whole thing.

Walk about is also marked as an early one, but that's also not directed. At least those are films like their filmed in Australia. And then the Adventures of Barry McKenzie, which is 72, which is a Bruce Beresford movie, which is like a silly comedy. But that's that's starting to spark like independent Australian cinema again, right?

Like homegrown. And so early 70's is where you market. Cars that eight Paris is 74. Right. And that's a really, you know, that's a real Kickstarter.

And then that leads to Mad Max. But this scene is kind of the beginning of the end, because right after this, you get into sort of like a Brian Trencher Smith, more kind of like just genre plays. Mad Max equals Cracket Aldundee. Like the thing has become commercialized.

Correct. And most of the breakout directors have gone to Hollywood. Right. That makes sense because, you know, I grew up in a small town in Oklahoma.

And I probably heard first heard of the Australian new wave around the year that this comes out.

So this comes out in American 83. Right. And by then, there have been Mad Max's. I don't know if Rob Warrie had like made it to America. It's probably around when I had seen Rob Warrie in the theater definitely for this.

And then like beyond Thunderdome is 85. And that's that sort of thing where it's like, well, now this is gone Hollywood. And then he is 86. And he is 86. Yeah.

And then it's like that. It's over. Right. And like you're saying, like all those guys, like Barisford Russell Mokahi. Mm-hmm.

Like even the sort of lower level guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They go make genre stuff mostly.

Right. And then you have Peter Weir and George Miller is the kind of like esteemed, you know, whatever. Like Hollywood big shot version. Yes.

I mean, George Miller's the the odd one because he figures out how to basically keep.

But he still makes like witches of Eastwood. Like he still wants. That's the one. Yeah. Like broke him where then he's like, if I'm doing this, I'm doing it on my own terms.

Even if I'm ultimately handing the product over to Hollywood at the end of the day.

“Now, did you see this film when you were, you know, in '83?”

Yeah. Yeah. So you would have been what? 1718 years old. Yeah.

And what? What drove you to see it or was it just seeing everything? Well, at that time I saw everything. Uh, I knew who Peter Weir was. Uh, and, you know, Mad Max or I should say the road warrior had announced.

Uh, Mel Gibson as a movie star in the most profound way. Just a theater full of people going to that guy's a fucking movie star. And I'll follow him anywhere. And I want to see what he's got. And of course, you're living dangerously was quite a calling card for him in that.

It's like, oh, he's not just, he's not an action star. He's not Dolph Lengren up there. He's smart. He's, uh, he can, he can play the male action star, but he can also play the romantic lead. He's smart.

He, he can also play a guy who's a bit of a son of a bitch, right? He, there, there are a lot more arrows in his quiver. Yeah. We realized with year of living dangerously. I was thinking watching this and not having seen it before.

This may be feels like his most normal performance ever.

“Because obviously here he's fighting against the Mad Max thing, right?”

And trying to show his range. He has. But then I feel like when his Hollywood persona as a movie star settles. It's still using 10% of the mania. You know, it's the lethal weapon.

It's the cage animal thing. And then he can also still be in romcoms or drummers or whatever. But he does have that odd kind of manic energy to him. And this he is just so fucking steady. You know, he's not charming and schmoozing in the way he isn't glibbly.

Where he's such an exciting kind of thing. Like an innocent sort of, which it's like not something really did much. Ever played someone this kind of like simple in a way. Not simple in like a backhanded.

I never saw the river that it is he playing a kind of this kind of guy in that.

Like I'm trying to think of a comparable. No, the river he's playing a Midwestern farmer. Not completely convincingly. But not an embarrassment either. But yeah, he never really did the kind of slightly bright-eyed, you know.

It was just making me think of how different sort of Hollywood sees development of movie stars now. We're like, you have a foreign export movie that crosses over here. Everyone points and goes, that guy's a fucking movie star. And Hollywood's like, okay, collectively, how do we do this? You know, and there is this feeling of it's not like one studio signs him to attend your deal.

So we can test them out and grow him incrementally. Like he needs to be in spring training, right? It helps if he's in a drama. Audiences need to meet him in different flavors. We need to test what he's good at in bad at at a low enough budget level.

That this will ultimately help all of us versus your Taylor Kitch, your on Friday night lights.

And they're like, great, you're the star of three, two hundred million dollar movies.

“Nobody's actually having, nobody's actually saying that, right?”

They're all individually circling it. But it did feel like there was a kind of, I don't know. You read about these things like a collective unconscious in the period between when the studio system kind of collapses. And the star contracts where, you know, people are literally saying, we're buying this guy. We're sending him to charm school.

We're molding him in our image. Things dissipate. But still, there is a sense of like movie stars are rare. If there is one potentially on the board, it benefits all of us to just chip away at this guy. Part of it, I'm sure is also selfishly like,

Will Mel Gibson look fondly upon us ten years from now because we financed one of his early films. Not to mention what Mel himself wants, right? Because he wants to be taken very, you know, eventually he's going to wind up making hamlet. He's going to wind up making brave heart. He wants to be taken seriously in this way. So of course, he's not going to follow road warrior with, I can't think of anything stupid enough.

Well, right. Oh, you're trying to think of like what's the dumb thing? What would be the dumb thing he could do? What's interesting is that he follows road warrior and you're living in justly with three prestige pictures. None of which I feel like were quite it. Like there's the Donaldson bounty film, right?

Just like pretty good. It's like pretty good. Everyone he gets to be opposite Anthony Hopkins. And someone's all dressed up in yelling and it's fine. And he does the river, which I feel like didn't really make an impact.

But on paper, when it sounds. Who directed the river? Mark Wright Dell. All right. So like, you know, he paint done the rose. And I had gone asking him, she done obviously on Golden Pond.

And then he does that thing.

Mrs. Soffel with dying keep which I've never seen.

That's a million Armstrong's a good director. But right, like a bomb. But he feels like he gets stuck in a he's a little too earnest. Yeah. And it feels like these are movies that the bigger guys had passed on.

Right. And it was like, well, let's gamble on the Australian guy who's so handsome. Like he'll make sense. And playing him a little more romantic maybe. And then he does like thunder dome and then leaf away.

And then it's like, okay. Well, it's off to the races. Well, it's off to the races. But it is him doing action for a while. It's like to kill his sunrise, air America.

Like those, and then he grabs the prestige with like hamlet.

“I think what they dialed with lethal weapon and with thunder dome.”

And particular where he's older, where he's like a more haunted Max and everything is like,

What's the right level of crazy we want here?

Maybe we cleaned him up too much. You know, with like your Mrs. Soffel's and stuff. Like let's get a little bit of the energy back in there. And then those two movies, it's like, we got it. We know who he is.

We have a handle on him off to the races. How old is he when he does your living dangerously? It's a good question. It's a film is made around 8182. He's, oh, I do the math here.

20/7. No, he's old enough. He's born in 56. Yeah, I know you're right. It's 26.

Yeah, he's really young. Yeah. He's only 70 now. Yeah. And it's obviously been around famous my entire life.

I mean, he is so pretty in this. It is kind of astounding just the serenity of his face. Look, it's the magic of aging. It means, if you're a Pacino or whatever, that I can show someone like the Godfather. And they're like, I didn't realize that you still look like this.

And you're like, yeah, take a look. There was a reason everyone was going insane about this. Apologies for the tangent, but I found recently. I did through doing some Wikipedia Rapper holes.

“Do you know that Al Pacino was actually on the record?”

As far as we are able to historically document these things as one of the 25 oldest fathers in human history. Okay, well, good for him. Good for him. No, I didn't know that.

Everyone was like, oh, he had a kid really old. And I'm like, yeah, it does not happen like a lot, though. And I was like, no, he's like, he's up there. Here is a Wikipedia entry list of oldest fathers on record. And a couple of other questionable, like the top guy there, like that guy,

might have been adding two decades to his age. And I'm like, then throw him off this fucking list. Let me tell you, the top 25. You don't know about that. They're not.

They're not. Tony Randall is on this list. Tony Randall had a child at 77. Yes. He was married to one woman for like 40 or 50 years.

She passed away. He married a 20 something. They pumped out two kids really fast. And he passed away. Tony Randall also from Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Wow.

Right.

So we're in David Williams and are one team.

They already had written collectively together. Playwright. Playwright. A great playwright. I feel like of the, you know.

And then so it's coach or coach. I think it's coach. Right. Coach wrote his own scripts. And they kind of merged them.

But we wrote describes the relationship as bumpy. But it was a little not explicit corpse. But like these things were happening, siloed processes that were then mushed together.

“As it usually is, I think you see multiple screen writers on a thing.”

So we didn't meet somebody else. I just think sometimes it's more iterative. Right. Where it's handed off from one person. I guess that's more exquisite corpse.

Where is this? It was more like Frankenstein's monster. Where they're like, we got four bodies. Which parts do we want to pluck from each of them? Though the movie is not different from the book.

Interesting. Great way. The different narrator I suppose is probably the biggest change. It's not Billy in the book. It's not Billy in the book.

Yeah. It's another journalist. Okay. And the book. Okay.

But that, that feels very telling. Right. Whether that was weird decision or that we responded to someone else suggesting that. Yeah. It does feel like kind of.

No.

“It's a big, that the most important framework the movie provides.”

Yeah. Yeah. I had to read it in my opinion. So coach says, you know, and there was initial publicity that left his name off. He says he sort of fought for the screenplay credit.

And that, you know, as it always is with these sort of screenwriting just be it.

Everyone's got their story. Um, but we're, uh, he, coach says a game. We were a screenplay. He liked it. He took it to CBS in America.

They didn't like the script. And so, you know, there was a polish. It turned into a rewrite. And coaches like, I know I'm not trying to be like the sensitive novelist here. But like, you know, they had fucked up my story.

And I fought to put stuff back in. Like I called Alan Sharp, who is a, you know, wrote night moves. Like a Hollywood guy. Uh, we are rewrites the sharp script. More in the direction of what, uh, coach is interested.

CBS drops out. Uh, Williamson then comes on board. Uh, coach's final estimates is that the script is 55% Williamson. We are 45% me. Sharp, excised, which was the stuff he really didn't like.

So, you know, he's moderately happy. Peter Wears take is I ate the novel. I digested it. And it was delicious. I can only recall the taste.

But what I then spoke is the results. The experience was my way of telling the story. He really has a way with words. Like, I know a lot of guys sat down in front of a dead DJ panel or whatever. And was like, well, I ate the script.

I will say in in our months of reading and watching interviews with Peter Weir. And as someone who loves to just drive a bit into the ground, his commitment to metaphors and talking about his process. He will pick one and he will really stick with it and ride it out at the end of the thought. Right.

Yeah. Uh, so, right. They altered the con character. Um, Weir says he's much less likable in the novel. Would you agree?

Yeah. Um, and I guess he wanted to alter the balance of that. So in what way is he not likable? Is he just like more of a cynical kind of? Yeah.

I think my, my, my recollection of it is that he's. Quan is more manipulative. Yeah. Because like this movie frames, it is a film that positions Quan as the hero of the story. It is almost kind of like a big trouble in little China.

In many ways of sort of like, here's your like fake lead at the center.

But actually this movie is being driven by this person who would never be allowed to be the center of a story.

He also says he filled out Jill's character more. Um, in the book, the character's pregnant. He felt like that was a little too much. Like essentially why would she be sort of throwing herself into all of this. Why would Hamilton be interested, you know, like in a further complication of that.

You know, like so they remove that. And, you know, it's just essentially like I assume this is correct. And we were saying the book is more very much about the politics of the time. And the movie is not really. Not that it's, it's how am I trying to like it's like this movie could be set in other moments of sort of critical change in a country, I guess.

You don't need to know anything about Indonesian history which is politics in order to. Enjoy the movie the year of living danger.

“You need to, you know that there is essentially a sort of coup that happens at the end of the film.”

Like this is a crazy, fascinating moment in Indonesian history.

I will say I'm the opposite of David and this regard where I more than anything value a movie that can be in conversation with real historical events,

but not require you to open a bunch of Wikipedia tabs. I don't look to those films as educational resources. I don't walk out of them going clearly. I know everything, but I like the ability to sort of tell a story adjacent to in tandem with real hard history. That just kind of works as a complete closed loop on its own dramatically. Well, how well do you know Vienna post World War II?

“How well do you need to know it in order to enjoy the third man?”

Yes, right. I mean, we're going to give you just enough context, so you know what the fuck is going on. Right, it's not going to be any movie. And I think we're in particular very good at that. Almost all of his films are like in conversation with larger, thorny or issues that are too hard to compress down narratively,

but he is telling one very clear emotional story within that. But of course, you've also got the problem, the issue of Peter Weir and David Williams and CJ Koch and Mel Gibson and Sigourney Weaver, telling you a story said in exotic Indonesia. Yes, right.

“And I think that's a lot of this movie's tricky like standing at this present moment is,”

"Hey, just take a little cursory view of letter box. I feel like there is a conversation for movie that's a little bit lost." And part of this is no proper physical media representation, not streaming in the regular places. Is this movie a peak example of kind of Hollywood exoticism, even though it was not fully a Hollywood movie? Or is this movie that is actually kind of interrogating that? Which does not mean is not guilty of any of the attributes.

But I do think, and I especially think this in having watched the earlier Australian films up until this point, I do think that is very deliberately what he is doing. I think he is very skillful at making movies where he is owning what his perspective is and the limitations of his perspective and working that intellectually and narratively and commenting within that.

“But I think everything we're saying about the recentering of the Belly Con character, which we will get to momentarily,”

is its own major conversation, is what he's really trying to say here. Here's a story of a guy who lands in a foreign country that is under great turmoil and is primarily focused on advancing his own career with a sense of kind of backpattie, I want to be doing the right thing. And falls in love and has a hot fucking two movie stars at the prime of physical spaceship. I mean, security is so fair.

The two of them look unbelievable in this, but it's like they're just getting it on while people are really fucking suffering. But the movie is very conscious of, and the actual story is this Billy Con character trying to push these kind of useful idiots into helping. You know, rather than hurting.

But without, but Billy never wants to tip his hand, like he cares too much.

He's paying too much attention to everybody that he's keeping his files. Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, even the question of like, why, why do you have access to the president? You know, why do you have his ear that he's just sort of kept tabs on everything for any moment he feels like he can move the chess pieces around the board to help the cause. But of course, the tragedy of this movie is like Billy Quan falls at a window. And so Courtney Weaver and Mel Gibson get on a plane and get to go like, well, that was interesting, but back to our normal life.

And they just leave the problem there. That's right. And does we get away with something because he's already established his liberal bonifides. His story points that you talk about colonialism in Australia, does is he given us a little extra credit for that,

whereas the people who made Casablanca or the third man are not given that kind of credit.

I mean, obviously, when I saw this movie in 1983 in a movie theater, none of the shit ever crossed my mind. Right, but I see it now in a different life, right, 40 years changes the perspective. Was, yes, I wonder what, yeah, what, what the sort of discourse was at the time because this was a big ish film. It was a well in Indonesia until like, well, 2000. Well, that's not a kind of treat that. No, I know allowed discourse on its politics until the 21st.

Yes, right, right, because they were growing from the Philippines. Yes, yes, because I'm sorry, it was supposed to film in Jakarta, which is in Indonesia. Right, then it was denied, so then it moved to the Philippines and then they had to end up filming the final chunk of it in Sydney.

“Got it, because all the actors, I believe, who are not the three principles or four principles are Filipino actors, yes.”

Ultimately, these films financed by MGM, the first of their Freddie Fields era of famous super agent, who is the president of MGM in the 80s,

because six million American, sorry, Australian dollars don't know, like, let that translate, too, but, you know, sort of a small medium of spend, I guess.

Sure, about 10, I think based on the math we did for Gallipoli. Very, that was about to go through the other direction. All right, good to know. Okay, I think they supported the Linda Hunt casting choice, which was sort of a fraught choice. So he cast David Akins at first, who is like a Australian dancer and a national treasure. And I assume they cast him more for, sort of, like, a physical reason, and then they, like, start doing rehearsals with Gibson and they're like, oh, he cannot hold this one.

This is what it gives him. He was, it was a small Caucasian man, but not a man with dwarfism. Right, and so they start, like, looking for, you know, anybody, essentially, they, they, they look in America because they had, according to we are exhausted. They're casting, like, sessions in Australia and Hong Kong and London, while the Sean tested, which is, oh my goodness, unbelievable. And the other one's Bob Ballad. Yeah.

So they were, like, who are tiny guys with particular energies who can be compelling like, Mel Gibson's suit jacket? I mean, beyond just the fact that Linda Hunt gives such a good performance in talking about everything that is tricky about watching this performance. Today, it is, I just think, helpful to envision how much worse it could have been. Yes, because that's a, like, to imagine Wallace Sean doing this. It's a different perspective than the Great Wallace.

Of course. It's like, the film would be illegal.

“A thing that Linda Hunt is famous for after this movie is, and Dan and Lemon did Wallace Sean play, she's in, right?”

Yes. But they, in her, I have no idea if this came up with, like, what was your Billy quiet, found the full interview with her where she was talking about it and comparing notes with her. That's, there you go. Yeah. So, you know, how did, or so, bad casting session in LA, he's reading the Gibson part, you know.

For David, David, that comes to your saying, Wallace Sean. No, no, no, we are is like reading with people, he's reading Gibson's reminds, like everything sucks apparently. And a casting director holds up a photograph, and he's like, that's perfect. And the castor's laughing is like, no, this is a woman. And we are like, I was just desperate.

And I was like, I want to meet her. Like, I, like, please, like, she had done one movie up until this point, right?

I had been in Robert Altman's pop-eye as part of basically the ensemble of Sweet Haven.

I think she is roundhouse's mother, maybe. Right. I mean, she'd done Broadway. She'd done some theater. She'd done a lot of theater.

Right. And she'd gone to the theater school at DePaul University, formerly the Goodman School of Drama. And I believe she was cut. I think she was cut from that program. And then when she became very famous, they went back to her and said, what do you mind if we see you were...

Fucking unbelievable. And the love. Yeah. She's a, she's a New Jersey native band. But grew up in Westport, I believe.

And she's, as a teenager, diagnosed with hypopotuitary dwarfism, right? She's 49. Yes. She is a Caucasian woman. This is so true.

This is unbelievably true. Yes. It could be more true.

“She asked, I think the sensitivity at the time was more that she was like, can we rewrite this to be a woman?”

Like, yes. She was a little bit more like, I'm not sure I can pull off playing a guy. Like, I don't know how much, unfortunately, there was hand ring over, like, you know, putting someone in yellow. Face at the time. When you read the response at the time or people talk about the making of the movie, it felt like their concern was will this look silly?

Not. Is this offensive? Right. Yeah. It was this is a big swing.

And in a serious dramatic film, does it throw the entire thing off balance? And the fact that it doesn't, and that her performance is so good, it has been talking about this a lot recently.

It is one of those rare examples of a best supporting actress win that's basically a cakewalk and the only nomination that movie got.

It's similar to the Amy Madigan weapons thing of just people being like, yeah, this is just like this is kind of one and a million thing.

This immediately like a stuck in everyone's mind. I mean, it's kind of hard to imagine you're living dangerously without when to hunt in it. It is the defining element. You make with the movie.

“I think weirdly, David, that it's considered brown face.”

It's a fair point. You're right. Yes. She's portraying a South Asian character. This is clearly something I'm very good at parsing out and talking about.

Like, it's. No, you're right. I mean, but no, nobody was concerned about that in 1982. And, and nor am I going to, yes, but the decision at the time, right? We, we show the movies to our kids that come with the disclaimers now.

Yes, it was wrong at the time. It's wrong now. Right. And I believe that absolutely to be true.

“Yeah, I mean, that's, and that's how I feel.”

The thing with this one that's so odd is it's not like. Breakfast at Tiffany's or whatever where you're like, wow, this is plainly offensive at the time. And it's just playing into a scary night, all this. You know, like remote Williams, the adventure begins. This is only like a year or two after this.

It has Joel Gray playing a villainous character who is like borderline food man. Right. And that is the performance that gets like a golden globe nomination. But that, that was Hollywood at the time. They were obsessed with the stunt of.

Yes. It was as if like, oh, my God. And this is, I'm choosing my language very carefully here. I'm saying that this was their attitude at the time. And this is exactly what the danger of the dehumanization was.

It was treated as can you believe this human being convincingly played a dog. You know, that it was like. Oh, they're texting my friend and make up in a voice and they change the whole thing. And now we obviously have like an entirely different language for how we consider like who should play what and how. It is interesting that it feels like the gender part of this is the most interesting part of the performance.

The most powerful and I actually think would be seen as progressive today in my mind.

In that, in that light, it would. I'll also tell you, you know, when you're the director and you're setting up the auditions and you're working with a casting director and you say, What we need from this character is a Chinese half Chinese half Australian dwarf. Right. Of a, yes, within a certain age.

Right. And you set up the auditions and then you look out the waiting room and you go, they're not, they're not out there. They're not, they're not, they're not coming in because not to say they didn't exist. But say there are four of them out there. Chinese Australian people with dwarfism who are coming into audition and maybe two of them are the wrong age.

And one of them is just terrible and one of them. You're like, oh, maybe we can make this work. I'm not going to like rank the levels of offensiveness of which things are touchier than others. But it's like, what if you find the right guy and he's six foot seven.

“And now he's like walking with like shoes on his knees, you know?”

And it did feel like the part of this that felt risky creatively was the gender element. And it is the thing that gives this movie this like entirely different like power and text.

I don't know if it's just me watching this from for the first time yesterday.

But it feels like baked in. And I was, it was this interview I found that Linda Hunt did with bomb magazine where she's talking about having just done the run of the wall of Sean play and she said like that was deliberate in my mind. That like I am playing a super personality. That I am not trying to play a man and you watch this now and it feels like there is a reading that is pretty easy to get to.

Of this character being like an Albert Knob of being someone who has assumed a different gender identity. Whether out of personal expression or out of means of survival. And that is kind of like the secret the movie is holding. And I think that was the thing that just made this performance so trans fixing. That you know in an era where people are just doing kind of race swapped casting offensively without any delicacy.

Playing into stereotypes without any larger gain. This performance is not doing that or rather that's not the main driving force. So people are just like fucking hand or the Oscar right away. And as like a kid growing up in the 90s and trying to learn about Oscar history. It was such a weird thing to stumble upon and be like in like the 80s they gave best supporting actress to a woman playing a Filipino man.

And it's like someone I haven't heard of but now that you're pointing her out she does just kind of pop up in things does he. Do you suppose there's any consciousness that he's indemnifying.

I do wonder.

“I but I really think the way he presents it is more just the total desperation of we could not find anyone even close to being good for this right.”

And it's such a unique and specific role and then he at one point was like should I make the character even more physically unusual should I make it a hunch back should I essentially just kind of transform it in a way that it might fit other actors right. And then he pulls back from that because he finds it in the hunt. I do think Linda home and see Oscar because she's good.

I do also think she wins because it was one of those kind of like well like you said like well this is never happened before we have to sort of acknowledge what an unusual performance this.

That's a good question weird year I was looking at because it's share for silkwood who I think wins the golden globe the sag doesn't exist yet right and that shares on tray right you know like of being taken seriously right maybe share was going to be the front runner. This is the year so it's sharing silkwood amyriving in the end till a lovely performance. But probably not going to win I'll free wouldn't cross creek which is a great performance but is a small movie and again probably sort of like I welcome welcome to the biz you know and then Glenn close in the big chill which is not like the definitive close performance.

But I feel like now they'd look back and be like should we just fucking give me this is what saves us the headache of yeah right every time they nominated her they were like but we'll give it to her for the next one and she was the only actor nominated for big chill right which is weird because she is good in it. But she doesn't actually have a big role I think it just speaks to her status that she was so she's the scene where she cries in the shower yeah which is like a big Oscar he kind of seen.

But like if I'm given someone not for that movie it's like Joe Beth Williams or so I don't know it's someone else well. But it's absolutely the argument for an ensemble award right I mean that would have won that big chill would have won it hands yeah yeah and then who's the fifth nominee again. Right right good year it's interesting year it's interesting year that's that's the terms of indierment year right and they run both of them and lead.

“But today they would have put McLean and supporting no I think they would have put Deborah and supporting it would have been bullshit if that came out of put McLean and supporting which is weird I think you're you're disregarding the kind of like.”

I know what your argument states been rule I would point to Carol as the analog.

But but um um officer and gentleman already come out so Deborah we're always a big movie star and that movie's more about her and McLean is the sparky supporting character like in this bullshit read of it. Like I think Deborah would have been lead and might have won. Maybe they should have done some category for both one but let's not such an interesting actor who has such a crazy interesting career in some ways now but it's also someone that like obviously Hollywood never really knows what to do. If we're fascinating kind of like paycheck run and I don't say that disparagingly board the studios are like this person's interesting how can we work her into our big movies and you're like oh she's like the madam running the saloon in Silverado.

She's like the stern principle in kindergarten cop like there's a good series of big studio paycheck gigs for her that all user in an interesting way another one or two. And then she ends up on she was on a 90s legal show and then she was on NCIS. She's on the practice. Yes, but as like one of the judges, but NCIS for 100 years. She was on that for 100 years.

Los Angeles. Los Angeles.

I always forget if it was New Orleans or Los Angeles.

This is a thing I discovered that I just I'm I'm so happy. I did the research and stumbled upon this myself. Linda Hunt twice won the Teen Choice Award surfboard for choice. Female TV star colon action for NCS LA. Yes, those words of course are full of integrity about by action.

Gentlemen they give us surfboard. Yeah, you're gonna hold. You got a gun for one of these. You got your Pulitzer. You got your Tony.

You got to get a surfman. You got to get a surfman. So you go up on stage and they give you a I was desperately trying to find a video of her accepting the surfboard. I'm DBC is credited once as self at one of those ceremonies, but I could not find any video.

“Okay, but both years I think the category was exactly the same.”

I believe she beat Yvonne Strahowski. For Chuck. Yeah. Maggie Q for the Lefemnik. He'd a TV show.

Like it's like four tears. So she leaned woodly accepting a surfboard. Oh, it's a full surfboard. It's a surfboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was years in a row, the exact same nominees. I think I just like leave the absurd, but leave it in the like in a parking spot.

I just love that it was four women and high heels who kicked people. And then both times they were like the teens have spoken. And they like linda hunts sitting behind a desk. What if you don't surf? This is my boy.

What a great question. A surfing board. It was a surfing board. This is again, you're sort of not really a Hollywood guy. I'm feeling here.

But to this point, it's like this wasn't an anointment of a career. She was basically unknown to most of Hollywood. She was, you know, established in theater, but had done almost no on camera work. And then Hollywood is like, I guess we got a castor in stuff.

But she never becomes, you know, like you look back and go like,

that makes sense that linda hunts has an Oscar. She got a Tony nomination for end of the world. A play I don't really know in the movies. You know, that's about that's a, yeah. Anyway, she's in the film.

Gibson obviously was the choice to begin with. Apparently he was vaguely wary of the character.

“I think because he'd never done that kind of a thing.”

Right. The sort of more cool detached. Just the whole defense or thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Sigourney Weaver Peter, we're like the film Alien. Yeah. Like many of us. And so I don't know. He didn't, you know, didn't have to press too hard.

Her time in between Alien and Ghostbusters wasn't rocky, but you do look back at it. And you feel her fighting against getting pigeon hold as just genre. Right. Like a sort of an action queen or whatever. Right.

And it feels like she tries a lot of interesting stuff when she and Ghostbusters can prove that she's funny. And then that's followed by aliens and grillers in the mess and everything. Right. By 84 85. It's like, oh, so according we ever can do anything.

But she only does one movie in between dangerously. Which is eyewitness. Right. Which is a. She and she built her both kind of anointed new.

Right. He starts at that point. Never seen. They're like journalists, right? Peter Yates, right?

“Peter, I think James Woods is also in that.”

That's not bad. Sure. You know, when she had been in college, she'd gone to school with Christopher Drain. Right. And he had written these plays.

They would do these plays in college. And he wrote these roles for her. But she was kind of the, you know, in a sense. He's writing.

Yeah. They were very, very much comedies. And she got to do lots of wacky stuff or be kind of the fact that she was tall. That's a statue-esque, beautiful, long-legged. And yet being in these screwball comedies, we're playing a kind of Margaret Dumont character in these things that that Drain would write.

So it makes sense that after aliens, you would say, Well, that's not really who I. I'm not really an ask-kicking action star. I do different stuff. But in year of living dangerously,

she and Mel, right? Find an opportunity to play. I mean, she's just so fucking smart. Right? Her, her screen persona is so fucking smart.

“And so you can imagine a lot of actors who would feel not, not equipped to play this role that she plays in your living dangerously.”

She has really tremendous amount of intelligence and authority on screen that just is established second one when you see her.

Yeah. And a movie that doesn't have a ton of time to backfill character. Right after this is when she does hurly burling on Broadway, which I feel like was another kind of, that fucking deal. Yeah.

She do much theater now. Like, she did, uh, Christopher Drain. Right. My mushrooms. Yeah, that was the last one.

Yeah, she does. She doesn't do a lot of it. Yeah. Is she in these fucking avatar things? She sure is.

She's crazy. I'm so glad you asked. In a stroke of almost linta linta hunt as casted. It is bizarre what they do with her. So Gorgnie weaver plays a 13 year old alien.

So in the first film. It is a phenomenal perfect.

And the first film's the Gorgnie weaver plays this scientist, a human person.

She's like a, uh, chain smoking tire. I'm trying to wrap these out. How do people become aliens? She dies in the first film spoiler alert. Um, but her mind is uploaded of course to a mind tree.

I don't worry about what you say. Spoiler alert after the spoiler. Yeah. Kind of loses some little bit. Uh, and then in the second and third films,

she plays in a Navi and alien. So with motion capture performance, but they use the motion capture. So that she can play a 13 year old girl. But it looks like her alien. It's, it looks like.

So Gorgnie weaver's face on a 13 year old blue cat alien. And she is so good in the film. And it is such a. A well observed performance of a teenager. It is.

She's, here she is. Oh, there you go. Uh, anyway, but back to the earflow. Immediately. It's just so exciting to have you on the show.

I feel like I just want to tell you all this thing. So we're excitedly showing you. Like macaroni.

they were never really going to do Indonesia.

They shot in Manila, which was very arduous. Uh, then there were terrorists, threats, which is a problem. Um, Manila is a very Catholic city at the time.

“I think then they start shooting in a village that's very heavily muslim.”

And this causes a lot of friction. And they, I think, don't know how much of a mess they're making by doing. They're making by doing all of this. Like they're just blundering around making their movie. Uh, so they eventually have to retreat to,

I mean, at one point. Uh, note was left in a vehicle saying in the name of all of the almighty. Stop your imperialistic film or we will stop you. That's the thing. The discourse of this movie.

I, I think it was not touchy in the States. It was touchy the places they were filming. Right. Yeah. Makes sense.

Yes. So we're just like we were going to leave.

Immel the Marcos the, at then first lady of a big Filipino politician.

Obviously personally reaches out and begs them like, don't leave. Like, you know, like, we'll figure this out. But we're just kind of like, this is too fucked up. Like, we don't need to be, you know, dealing with all this. Life first movie second is how he puts it.

Uh, so then they, they do another like six weeks in Sydney, recreating some of the sets, like patching it all together. And, uh, yeah, did the biggest battle. What do you think the biggest battle over this movie was after it was, uh, you know, final cut. The biggest battle like the biggest kind of like a US sensor kind of, you know, like,

you know, the studio thing. Like, it's that there's child nudity that there's the boy naked when he's. Oh, go. And that, like, isn't that, you know, in that how it goes though, like, you know,

“it's like, they're like, well, wait a second, why are we seeing a penis?”

I don't, like, a child's penis from the dead child. Right. Right. Priorities there may be a little black film came out 80 December 80 to an Australia. Uh, January, late January, 83 in America.

So Linda Hunt wins an Oscar for a performance that was a year plus old wild. Like, she only wins in the 84 Oscars. Yeah.

And looking through it, it really felt like, uh, she just sort of swept all the critical words.

Yeah. It must have been a performance that people were like, that was interesting. Obviously, that's not a traditional Oscar winning performance. And then it became such a critics cause that she, she carried it all the way. Um, I just think back to the casting thing for a second.

I, an interesting care at comparison point that I saw people pointing out on letter box to your point of, like, yes, it is incredibly hard to cast these things, right? And in theater, you were granted more sort of latitude of people can play things representationally and then film we expect a kind of literalism and how do you find the real person

“and also know that they can deliver what's necessary for the role and all of that?”

Which is not of this set as an excuse, right? Just the casting is an incredibly tricky art form. The weird kind of counter to this movie is killing fields two years later, where they hire Hying Nesnogor, who basically just was the guy he was playing, and he wins an Oscar as well.

You know, and it's in an academy that has very rarely awarded Asian actors at all. He is one of the few. And it's basically he is considered its him and Harold Russell from best years of our lives, or the two times that someone who was like straight up a non-professional actor, we hired this guy based on life experience and it worked.

Even then, you know, it's going to be hard if you go, well, let's just assume we can direct them and we can get the performance out of them. We have to find a four foot nine half Australian Filipino dwarf. It's still like a tough challenge. You know, years ago.

But just so literally identified that human being alive on the planet. Right. Yeah. Years ago, I did a play of mine called Linda Vista, and there's a Vietnamese American character in Linda Vista. And we went about trying to cast this role,

and trying to cast a Vietnamese actor in Chicago was challenging. We eventually got there. I have a Chinese Korean American friend who said to me, why are you? Why are you trying to cast a Vietnamese person? You're not going to find a Vietnamese person.

You just cast an Asian person. And I said, but don't you think that the Vietnamese person would have a different perspective on that, and would want to see themselves. Want to see the Vietnamese person represented on stage by a Vietnamese actor. And she said, that's not the way we look at it.

And she said, if I have to wait for the role to come up, that's a Chinese Korean American, I've already got a limited number of roles I can play. And now you're going to tell me that I can only play a role if it's Chinese Korean American.

Well, I don't know what Linda Hunt would say, since she has dwarfism about a role that comes up, which she's using as a player dwarf. Yes. Now, would you say something different now, then she said back in 1982?

I don't know. We're not hand waving or excusing any of it. They're like two fundamental truths,

which is this casting would never happen today,

and this performance is extraordinary. And it is like really the juice of the movie in every way. And back to just the reframing around this character, the whole reason this movie works for me on top of her just nailing the performance.

“So hard, but I think today there would be some form”

of reconceptualization around the character somehow. I think today a director would say, let's find that person before I do anything else. Yes, right. It's like, I've got to know that I've got that person.

I mean, I thought I could build this movie around. There was whatever years ago, I was 2019 Steven Spielberg announced he was going to make that movie about the... I think he did that.

It's been made since then. Yes, but he announced it as his next film, and they said, and now we begin the worldwide casting search for the kid. Right.

And basically after two years he was like, I can't make this movie. Yeah, we never found the kid. Right. You know, and if you're Steven Spielberg, you have the clouds to be given the money in the runway

to search, knowing that you might not find the kid. If you're Peter Weir at this point, Oh, I don't know. They're saying to you, here's when you start filming.

Yeah. No, no, like, you decide who's playing that role. But we're not waiting around for four years. Meals got like two more fucking mad maxes to make or whatever. Right.

So the film, we should discuss a little more in depth. I would imagine, you know, what do we... It opens with Billy Kwan. Uh-huh. A character we later find out is dead.

Sure. But he's telling the story of the film today. Sure. He's narrating from beyond... In diary form.

Right. Right. In a way. Yeah. Is this mean we're done with the dossier?

We are, I'm sorry. No, that's all right.

“I'm the only thing left there is, um, you know, the reviews.”

The reception of the film, which I can tell you more. It's a specific question.

We can always plug into a plate it can.

Uh, I can tell you that it was well received by critics. Uh, and... Uh, we're these days to sort of like, I'm not sure about that film's legacy, but I'm glad, you know, it still exists.

He doesn't talk about it in a reverential way, exactly. But I think it was a pain to make. Here's what I don't know yet. How do you feel about this? I love this film.

I love this film. I, you know, sensitivity is aside and all like the things are just... Like, I just... It's just the kind of movie I, uh, really respond to, um, because it's sexy, but also, like,

politically complex and, like, rewarding in its complexity. Just like, not giving you an easy answer. Not giving you an easy guy to root for. Like, he makes mistakes that are identifiable mistakes to me.

He behaves in a way that I'm like, "Yeah, I don't know that I would really be of upright integrity here either. I don't know that I would know how to navigate this situation, but I would be kind of thrilled by it." Or, and, um,

it's just a film that feels very relevant, always.

You can say it for all of it now. Everything's relevant now. Right now everything is right now. Right now everything is relevant. But like, the Super Mario Galaxy movie has never been more of a right.

All films. But, like, capturing, like, the feeling of a country on the brink of something is hard to do. Like, and I love any movie that does that. And I love, like, Ross Lini movies.

Or, I'm trying to think about, like, what are what are other movies that you would put in that genre of, like, sort of films about a revolution that aren't about, like, the instigators of that revolution. I don't know.

That's interesting question. Um, but I love revolutions, missing. Missing. Yeah, yeah. Another film that's impossible to find right now, right?

Isn't missing a-- It's not a criteria. Oh, it's not criteria. I should go fuck myself. Uh, well, Galiply is not--

“Not inherent in my comment that you should go fuck yourself.”

Galiply is, is similar in that regard. It is, you know, backgrounding a giant historical moment and showing it to you only through the perspective of people who don't understand how important what is happening around them is actually going to be.

Yes. Um, I, like, what I, like, I'm no expert on, uh, Indonesia. I don't know if you are. Are you? I am not an expert on Indonesia.

This is good to get out there. But, like, Sekarno-- From what I understand, Sekarno was not a communist. Right? But he was sort of, like, loosely aligning himself,

leftying, leftying, leftying, loosely, aligning himself with the Soviets may be loosening, loosely drifting from the Americans. And what's happening in this movie is the American, the West, the Americans, the Brits, whatever,

the old nasty stakeholders are like, "Let's fucking soak chaos so that we can get our guy in." Right? Like, that's what happened in Indonesia. Because, like, uh, Suharto is the guy who replaces him

is, he's like, uh, you know,

David is saluting for those of you listening at home.

“And I know that I am embarrassingly simplifying Indonesian,”

like, politics here. But, right? Like, and I just love that in what's happened. Well, because I, I was really trying to figure out, like, he seems to be this figure, like, a hero.

He is. Sekarno? Yeah, he is. He's the father of like Indonesian independence. Right.

They broke off from the, they were controlled by the Dutch for, you know, a hundred fucking more, I mean, how much? Yeah, you know, hundreds of years. They were the Dutch East Indies. And, like, post war.

He's the leader of their independence movement. And completely anti-imperialist, uh, right? He, he doesn't want anything to do with the colonizers. Right. Uh, and, and, and, and therefore sets himself up, uh,

as a leader of the country. But, of course, he's terribly corrupt as well.

“And that's what the tension of, especially Billy Quant.”

I mean, everyone else here is there. They're drifting in here because it's interesting. Like Billy Quant wants Sekarno to, to help. And Sekarno, like, and, and I guess identifies in Sekarno, like, you know, good, right? Like, you could be doing good.

I mean, like, where I, in charge of a nation of,

what, 10,000 islands with like, 400 million languages,

and like, they had just been liberated from Dutch bond. I, yes, I imagine corruption would reign. I don't really know, like, this is what I don't know. Like, was Sekarno a bad leader, like, I don't think so. Like, I think it was just, like, an insane and complicated situation

that then the, the West kind of, like, blew up. I also think there's an interesting trick in the egg thing. When you look at, like, radical revolutionary movements and how often those leaders are proven to be corrupt. And whether there is some driving force in them that pushes the politics,

even if ultimately helpful to their people,

“so that they can achieve their own ultimate desires and gains,”

or if it's just classic fucking absolute power corrupts absolutely. But so often you have these arcs of the person being the Savior, ultimately becoming the exact kind of person that they exist to topple. Yeah, a little, not exactly.

Right of that happening, but it never actually even really came to that.

I'm not even saying with him in general. Like, saying, like, globally across history, that is a thing that repeats its whole story. Besides, I just, like, have the film captures that, you know, all of that ambiguity. Yeah.

While still being a 100 minute sexy journalism thriller. Also, right? Like, it's a pretty darn watchable movie. But it's not a movie where he's going to break the case and fucking save the day. And it's not a movie where he's, like, the white savior, whatever.

You know, like, it doesn't really hit your voice. It's like an anti-white savior movie, even though it is obviously placing the sky. It doesn't feel like it gets over at the audience at any point. But it's, it's why I said the, like, useful idea thing is there's the sense of, like, as you said, Billy Quan being like, man, if someone could get through to this guy,

he really could help everybody. And he identifies guy, really just some white dude named guy who's handsome and charming. And it's like, he might listen to him. If I can load the right ideas into his head and he can go relay them. And he's a better delivery system than maybe I would be.

Does that affect change? I find that idea very moving that that this, the, what's going on globally, politically, what's going on in this country is so far beyond the reach of the characters. Yeah. They really don't understand quite the world they're operating in.

And they basically, you know, one of them dies and the other two run away.

Yeah. I mean, right, there's, they get to just live a fucking Hollywood room. I mean, a scene that I love is when they, they make it through the checkpoint. It's so tense. And then they're laughing even though they're, they just witnessed, like, state murder.

Right. And I'd probably because like, they're just so exhilarated and they're like, you know, happy to be alive. You wouldn't put that in a Hollywood version. No, because it makes him look like a jerk or something.

Yeah. It is, it is begging to be misread, whereas I view that as pointed. That is the prism of looking at his other films and the continuity of his view points. I brought it up in other episodes, but there is one of the first things Peter Weir did was he made one of the chapters in an omnibus movie called Three to Go.

That was truly like the very beginning of the Australian new wave. Let's get these kids at a film school and try to make a movie commenting on the youth of Australia. And it's, it's three different stories of three different characters. And he made one called Michael that is about a upper middle class kind of very

coddled, privileged, kind of well-meaning liberal intellectual kid who is fighting,

Views is the safety of their bubble and wants to get into the shit. And starts entrenching himself in kind of radical politics and radical art and wanting to feel dangerous and wanting to tell himself that he's not just comfortably sitting in an ivory tower, but it is ultimately an act as an effect. It's him just wanting to rebel against whatever isn't posed upon him.

Even if what isn't posed upon him is like immense privilege and security and safety. And it builds to him inviting this radical kind of a theatre troupe over to his parents house. Mostly to kind of just say fuck you to his parents. And then immediately his hit with like actually is this more chaos than I want.

“And I think it's really interesting as like basically the first extended narrative thing”

Peter we were ever made on film because it feels like it is him very much trying to excreate the exact person he doesn't want to be. Sure. Right. You know sort of culture stories.

Right. And the guy who gets out when things get a little too messy. Right. Like to believe that he could get down and dirty and really give everything to the cause. What does he do in this?

He doesn't do much. Exactly. That's the difference. And he's finally the first act of the movie like just kind of circling around. Like he's really not doing anything.

Right. That movie feels right. It feels much more barbed. And this the way it is.

I think getting out of somewhat similar thing is much less critical of the character.

And more critical of the societal systems. And then as you're saying like the moving part of it for me is. Billy Quan basically understanding that everything boils down to people. That these issues that can feel so humongous and impossible to manage or ever effect change. Ultimately are swung by two people having a conversation.

Right.

“And can you get the right two people in the right place?”

Can you get them to a line on the same things? Yeah. And so much of the movie's philosophy is contained in that first conversation that Billy and Guy have as Guy is just arriving. And Billy's talking to him about, you know, he talked to him about Tolstoy and, you know, what would you. Could, could, do you help the one person in front of you? How do you, how do you help?

What then must we do? Uh, which is all pulled straight from the book by the way. This is the cautious book. I mean, the dialogue is pulled straight out of the book. And it's really the argument that or the conversation I should say that sits at the center of the film and that we keep coming back to.

I mean, like I say, Guy only makes one ethical decision in the movie and it's arguably the wrong one. So, okay, the plot of this movie. Oh, we're still back to the plot. No, no, it's fine. We don't have to be, but I'm just trying to think like, uh, how, how it progresses.

Um, I mean, much like Mel Gibson wanting to show people that he is not just an action star that he can do drama. This is a guy who wants to be boots on the ground. An important photo journalist, you know, video journalist film journalist, I guess, uh, doing something meaningful. But also he wants to stake his claim as important. He both wants to feel like he is fighting for the right issues and also that he has seen as someone who can tackle issues of weight.

He's he arrives. He knows nothing. His predecessor has left him nothing. Right. Like so he's kind of like a true babe in the woods.

So he meets all the guys. Michael Murphy. Love to see that guy.

Always love to see incredible face.

Yeah. What's he? I mean, he, I, he's an almond guy. I mean, like he's a big almond guy. But he, he's great.

And he's a terrific, this is only what, uh, two or three years removed from, uh, unmarried well. And where he's also a son of a bitch. Oh, and Manhattan, a couple of years after Manhattan, where he's also a son of a bitch. He's like just a play. Just a play.

This would be German. A bland, waspish son of a bitch. Yes. It is rare to have someone who was that good. And that handsome.

Yeah. Basically, fully embraced the idea of being a character actor. Yeah. It has strategically to represent the most annoying kind of person.

You know what I've never seen is shocker.

Oh, yes. Craven movie. Yeah. He's the lead up. Yeah.

And I've always wondered what that is.

“Like, he's the human lead being quantified the shocker, right?”

I believe that is correct. Yes. Is what Mitch Pellege is the original shocker. Right. He's the man who sends him to the electric chair.

And then the man in the electric chair. Yeah. I haven't seen him. I just was Craven. Yeah.

Yeah. But he didn't like that sort of weird 80s. Craven where he wasn't sure what he was. He's created the fucking ineffectual mayor and Batman return. Yep.

He's great in a way from, like he's, he's, I just think he is always good. Always fantastic. Mm-hmm. And this is such a perfect use of him. He became a big narrator.

He narrates like any PBS shit that's Michael Murphy. Yes. Anyway, by the way.

Michael Murphy's 87 years old.

Yeah. He's about to turn 88. Yeah.

“And I think he's the only, I think he's the only, well, I was, I was the only American, except Linda Hunt, of course, is American.”

Yeah. Right. But he's the only American, he's the only American character that's one of them. Yes. He's the, he's the token ugly American.

And it's another scene that I think is really. But the, she's a British. Yeah. Uh, the, the scene around the table or Michael Murphy is trying to sell Mel Gibson on the sexual Tourism of the Philippines where you're like, you know, okay.

But like cut the bullshit. You're not here because you actually care on any humanitarian level. This is a cushy job because they treat you like royalty. Right. And the laws were loose.

Your money goes far. You're right. Yeah. Right.

And then who's the other actor?

Is that no failure? Yeah. He's an Australian actor. Um, oh, who is, you might, you're unsurprised to learn how to big, like, sort of comedy career, contemporary Barry Humphrey's, who's a big Australian, you know, who's

Daymedna is Barry Humphrey's. He died. Okay. Diet, died very recently.

“Do we get a sense of, like, what publications, what countries?”

These are, like, why are journalists? I would have seen it. Yeah. Right. Like, my dad was a wire journalist.

Okay. He worked for UPI. He lived in Vienna. He lived in Beirut. He lived in Rome, like, hated the Australians.

Might know, my dad hated welfare. And that is too strong to say that he hated them. It's more than my dad. I would detect in him to stay in for the Welsh. Where I was, like, you grew up.

So fucking poor in London. Like, what is, you know, what do you have on the Welsh? Nothing. Like, you know, it's like, you're just as, like, much of a local, as them, except you grew up in, like, south London or whatever.

But like, and like, he, and he just kind of had these, like, yeah, but they're just so silly. You know what I mean? That would be like, this is, because we do what the Brits conquered them in a thousand years ago. It was also Taylor's old time, you're all stuck under the same boot and you point to the other person, though.

I think there's a fucking problem. So funny about it. And it wasn't like he was the only one. It's a common thing in Britain that people are like, the Welsh. Like, and it's just, I'm like, they're like, 100 miles that away.

How different are you? You know, it's like, but, um, no, he didn't. My dad didn't have an Australian thing. Other British people do.

“I mean, don't you, I mean, like, have you been to Britain?”

You know, it's like the, the Brits, the way they are, especially with Australians. But, you know, any, like, you know, Canada news, you know, America. Yeah. But they're just like, you know, those guys are kind of Britain junior.

You know, we kind of invented this whole day. I'm fucking running circles around the British labels in terms of physical media these days. Well, that's really interesting. Well, that's really interesting, stepping up. I mean, what is a good, are you, is there a good British, like,

Eureka, Eureka, Eureka? Yeah. Yeah. Indicators is UK and Radiance is UK. Yeah.

But like, the old tartan label and all that, like, they're gone, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you got, you got imprints and umbrella and via vision.

But I'm just pointing to the time. We got to, let's keep going with the five. But the scene of them sort of, like, trying to suck out in Mel Gibson. What is your sexual DVNC? As if the only reason you would take this job is to be able to take advantage.

Right?

And it's like, Michael Murphy is basically, I wasn't even as coded.

He is, like, this is a man with, like, pedophilic inclimations, who is, like, primarily driven by underage girls. Yes. And the other guy is, like, deeply closeted. Right.

And it's when Billy is laying it all out of the end. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he's, right? He's poking it all of those sort of unspoken things.

Yeah. And in that first scene, I think where you introduce those guys around the table, and they're poking Billy as, like, what's your fucking thing? Who are you fucking? What's your fucking deal?

And he, like, very, like, stands very firm of, like, that is not my relationship with her. You know? They're, like, so you're fucking her on the side, right? Why would you talk to her otherwise? And he has this, like, you don't understand kind of thing, where it just feels like Billy

is a character who is completely grounded in the value of seeing people. And seeing the worth of people and the relationship of people to each other in a non-transaction way, it's why it's so interesting to me to learn that the book character is less pleasant. But I guess, because, like, to me, it's, like, right, they invest the morality in the movie and Billy. Because this character is very strategic, but not in a devious way.

Yeah. I'd be, like, fine, manipulate me. Oh, no, no. You may be fall in love with a 40-way girl. Oh, this sucks.

Yeah, that would suck. Oh, fuck. Don't even keep it. When that happens. Oh, no, what do I do?

Yeah. So Billy nudges Guy towards Jill, right? Mm-hmm. And I feel like Bill nudges Jill towards Guy as well, right? Like, there's all this sort of subtle manipulation going on.

Mm-hmm. And also, let's guy know that he can give him access to the president in exchange for agreeing to make Billy his exclusive cameraman that is framed originally as just, you do all that for me.

Well, I don't think it's the president.

I don't think it's the leader of the comments. Oh, yes, I'm sorry. That's right. Yes, yes, yes.

“But who does later historically did become the first president?”

So am I wrong about this? No, I'm talking with the president of Indonesia at the time. Yes. So Carnot is eventually related. So what happens is there's a communist rep, you know, not revolution, exactly.

But like, there's communist fighting. Tracy, I'm looking at you because you know everything about this. I said, you know more about this than I do. But there's communist fighting. So Carnot will be a military.

Yes, the military led by Suharto uses that as an excuse to completely wipe out the communist and all of opposition. That's right. And then eventually kick out Suharto. Suharto becomes the president of Indonesia for 35 years or whatever until death. No, not until death.

Right, they're in the 90s. It's like the economy gets bad and it's finally his time to go. I listened to this podcast called Revolutions by Mike Duncan. I highly recommend it to everyone. It's like well known where he goes through every single revolution that's ever happened.

It's just him talking. Just tells you, I'm on Mexico right now.

And it's just always so interesting how it's always the same fucking mistakes.

The guys just stay a little too long.

“And it's like, hey, you're getting all, do you want to like pick a successor?”

And he's like, well, if I pick a successor, then you'll try to get rid of me. You know, like, it's like, you know, like they become, you started the relationship by cheating on someone. I mean, like, I think you're going to cheat on me. Like, don't hold it right. Yeah.

And so Karna was kind of laying the groundwork for the communist uprising that was eventually put down. He, one of the ways he did this was with the speech in which he spoke about living dangerously. Correct. As where the title comes from, which is never referenced in the film. It's referenced in the book straight off the bat.

But, uh, the very pericoloso. Uh, well said. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, like, he, he called. He, he gave the speech during, like, an anniversary of their independence.

I know he's about a year before the coup. But was he, like, did he want this coup to happen the way it happened? Like, no, right? Like, like, the 30s. This is the thing that's all sort of.

You start to get into the weeds here. And it's like, I, I'm, I'm lost. I'm lost again. Seeing it in 1983, I couldn't have found Indonesia on a map. Sure.

Right. Uh, there. So, uh, that didn't matter. Like, it didn't matter. It didn't matter.

But what's spoke to you about the film then? I guess. Apart from just that kind of rock. Well, again, the, the stranger in a strange land aspect of it. Right.

The, the, the quality of the performances, the love story that you talk about. I mean, the scene where he goes into the embassy party. And then she comes and she gets in the car with him. Uh, and we've started to play the van, van Jolie's song. Is just the hottest scene.

It's amazing. Yeah, unbelievably hot. They're really like peek. Hands up to it. You know, like Gibson and Weaver.

Well, they're not only, uh, physically attractive, but they're such good actors and they play. They play. They play that desire. So effective.

They don't speak that much to another. But then there's also the sort of loaded mystery of like,

“you know, is there, is there a secret layer to this relationship?”

Are you gaming me a little bit? Which is kind of makes it harder. Yeah. And the, the film making. I mean, yeah, I suppose with picnic at hanging rock.

He had established that he was a great filmmaker. Sure. You, but you know, I just watched the stunt man last night. And I saw him at the morning. Who's the director?

Richard Rush. You know, that's my great answer. Yeah.

Why did this guy never make another great film?

Yeah. That's one of my doubts. So it's like, what is going to be? How are we going to know that Peter Weaver is really that guy? And I think you're of living dangerously.

It's very apparent that he is that guy. That scene where the British journalist says, I've taken a bungalow and then we cut from there to the guys having kind of rickshaw or tup tup. He takes around five minutes to say I've taken a bungalow right? He does a lot of the purple preamble to be.

Yes. And then the, the music choices and the, the tup tup race that takes us into the bungalow. And then the whole bungalow sequence in which we hear very little of the dialogue being spoken. But so much of the sexual tension between. I mean, so Gordon Weaver and Mel Gibson is playing out to the dance, the Jerry Lee Lewis music, all of that.

Just the way all of that is put together is really masterful filmmaking I think. In a really unshowy way, he has such an incredible command of like the music of cinema. And in the sense of.

And you're not doing anything really gimmicky or flashy, but it is just the camera and the editing and the performances and the language and the literal music. The blocking, the framing, the art direction, everything. You know, he, he, it's like subtle magic trick shit.

You know, it's, it just feels like he's always doing like close up magic.

That is very skillful in making these things just flow so organically and be so. His movies are weirdly seductive even when they are not sexually charged. But he'd never made a sexually charged movie up until now. This is a hornyest movie. Yeah, I would argue picnic at hanging rock is very sexually charged.

Yes, that's true. With. With the friend of me. Exactly. And it's mysterious.

“And like, I mean, it's just at the time, especially imagine if you had seen other weird movies when this came out, probably not, right?”

Like, imagine being like, okay, what if the guy who made picnic and hanging rock in the last wave and Galipoli make? Yeah, I guess this has a little bit of a handshake with Galipoli. Yeah. And the male, especially with this idea, and now we're going to start digging in. Yeah.

And like, let's tell us, like, Galipoli and this both tell like human stories of like intimate relationships in a grand setting. Like, you know, where there's a big thing playing out in the background.

And I just find it ultimately just really transporting when the movie starts.

I'm, I'm in a different era. There's even something about the way the credits look the way the way the credits seek over the shot. The shadow puppet. Yes, it feels, it feels of another time. Yeah.

A very effectively transporting me to a different time in place. And I love that. Our friend Bobby Fanger passed him future guests. I was looking at all the letterbox logs for this movie. He used the term meandering.

It as a positive, which I'm like, that is a good way of putting. I also, the weird movie's alluded to very much on their own time zone. Sure. They're working at their own pace, and they low you into what they're doing. But it's the mood it should have because it's like that until it's not.

And whenever everything's going down, it makes the, like, the shock of that so much stronger. And then the death of Billy so much more like, you know, unbearable. It is also the thing I'm almost most allergic to in historical films or films about important political issues is characters who are so aware of the importance of what they are doing. In every line, in every gesture and filmmaking that is just focused on communicating that to you. The stakes of the importance in a way that is not representative of what it feels to live to be a person.

Even when you were in the most extreme circumstances imaginable, you are not burdened with the weight of importance of what you're doing and how it's going to be studied. I think that's right. Yeah.

“I think that's, I think you're right about that.”

I think, you know, if, if what we're doing, Bernstein, we're sitting around in all the presidents men saying, you know, this is the future of, you know, fake of democracy, rest on our shoulders. You know, but instead they're saying, I got to go and talk to that lady and see if I can get her on the right. You know, it's what's most well judged about that movie is the amount of time that's them just being like, huh, she didn't pick up. You know, right, that you're not just seeing the important things and that they don't immediately have the full picture.

The first time I saw that movie when I was a teenager or whatever, and it ends with them publishing.

I was like, wait a minute, this isn't the water game movie about where they get fucking Nixon and like the last half of it is like Congress and, you know, testimonies and stuff like, oh, they erased the tapes. And I think it's like none of that's in the movie. Literally just a movie about getting that story. Such a good movie. Rolls.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Good for you. You got that for you, okay? Oh, well, yeah. That's, I mean, talk about a good image. Is Pecula up or down. He like, what do you mean back in, because like I feel like for a while.

David was to much more madness. He was in the potential bucket for the losers bracket this year. He's a great. I don't know. I don't know what you referenced this.

I don't know what this is. Every March. Oh, do 32 directors. A daily vote.

“A bracket like a, you know, who's voting?”

Our listeners and we let them dictate one piece of programming a year. But where do they go to vote? A Twitter, which I don't know if you've heard is doing really well right now. It's a normal place to have civil discussions. And now we do it on our own website. Oh, it's good on our website.

You can go vote. I'll vote for you right now. The West Anderson or Preston Sturgis. Preston Sturgis. My man.

Correct answer. Yeah. No offense. No offense. I'm West would vote for Preston.

We would vote in a second. Yes. But you, you would said you were like as Pecula too many films. Is he a little down?

I mean, the latter half of his career is a little less.

Taxi.

“But it's, it's what's interesting to us when we try to cultivate and curate who's going”

to be on the bracket each year is, but you guys already know you've got this thing planned up. Oh, next five year. Oh, Chris. Okay. Somewhat.

About a year and a half. But we need to render this one by the fence. Right. One director. Where is this March madness thing?

We'll just go on the whole series. Yes. The fans pick a whole series. Correct. The last director they picked.

The last director. The con brothers. Poor us. Right. So it's like they usually pick someone.

Five months, but it was a good fucking five month. Yeah. Yeah. And right now. Yeah.

It's, it's. Scorsazzy. Scorsazzy. Milosh. You haven't done.

Scorsazzy. No. No. Because it's a very hefty ask.

“So that's a little bit of us being like to the fans like are you cool?”

Essentially. Sort of a half a year on this guy. Which is like it's fine. I mean, it's Martin Scorsazzy. That's like the size that is perfect for us.

If you got like how about Charles Logan? I mean, well, you know, he's pretty easy. That's not good now. Sometimes if there's like a guest being floated who might be tough in terms of scheduling, we'll throw out.

Is there a one film filmography you want to cover? Because we know we could just slot that in anywhere.

And so long we've always kind of kept on the table.

Is like is anyone ever going to try to claim that? Pretty good movie. Pretty, pretty fucking actual movie. No, but yes, you worked with multiple blank check. You worked with Catherine Bagel, though.

I have who we've covered. I'm trying to think of who else you guys should all over my movie. What if you were a little more positive than the other people? Yes. I made a joke about you being terrified that you had a physical need.

I like that you shouted out Lindor. That was going to get bombed. Who's the other Marie? Is that Marie? She's on my shit.

We covered the post way back when. Yes. Hold on, I'm not done talking. Let's get into it. So Marie, she says at one point, she said,

"Well, I missed this vital part of the movie because I just happened to look away from the screen for a minute." It's like, happened to look away. Who happens to look? You're not what I'm watching movie. Because I know what that means.

It makes you looking at her fucking phone, which means she doesn't know how to watch a movie. It's totally on my shit. She's on my brain. You have to control. You have to control.

You have to control. You have to control. You have to control. You have to control. You have to control.

I'm looking here like Adam McKay. I'm not so long. Sure. I'm like these are people where they're making directors that we haven't done that. But I don't know if we would.

But we covered the post. We kind of post. I haven't seen it. I love that film. We were very, very high on it in the moment because it was a new release.

So we were very excited by it. I have not revisited that film, but I like that film. We really don't have to do my filmography. No, I'm just, I'm just a tragedy. They're either directors that we've covered.

But those are the two. Catherine and Stephen. Yes. And then we covered Ghostbusters after life, of course. You're the main character on that.

That was a favor. I don't mind saying that. I mean, I would say that. Jason, we're here. Your truth is that Mike Judge was supposed to play that part.

Really? It was supposed to play the part and for some reason. It was the last minute. Wow. Scheduling problem.

And Jason, we're in Calgary. Yeah. We're carry shooting the movie. We were already there. I was there with my life and kids while she was working on the movie.

And Jason's like, wow. If only we could think of somebody from Oklahoma. Could do a thing to have something. So that's how I wound up in that. But you've not done Jason on that.

No, we did this on our page. We watched the Ghostbusters. So you got to work with Muncher. I'm not sure it's like Ghostbusters. Okay.

A blue guy. Again, it's being mindful of time. Yeah. We should wrap up. Like try and maybe just hit a couple more major points in the plot.

Griffin, you were referencing like Mel's character being aware of living through a major event. No, being not being burdened with that self importance. That he is kind of not so obsessively. But he is primarily just going,

Okay. Let me figure out the lay of the land.

“What is like who are the pieces on the board and how do I take the right side?”

But he's not thinking about the impact he has. He's just trying to build a good career starting from that point. We're trying to steer us is that Jill passes him info and that the Chinese communist are about to arm the PKI, which is the local communist party. Right.

And he makes the decision that we've been saying throughout, you know, the ethical decision that's really not the right one. Ben Lee has heard what you think about here of living dangerous.

I had never seen it before.

And I really, really loved it. It really resonated with me. I have such romanticism for this kind of life of like a journalist, living abroad, living hard, smoking sigs, drinking hanging out at bar.

I mean, I would say I have passed and I, you know,

“still think about those times finally and glad I made it out.”

But yeah, this this movie was just such a joy to watch. Great. I'm glad to hear that because I feel like, you know, obviously this is my presence here on your show is endorsement of the year of living day.

I mean, you could always come on to discuss the film, you don't think works.

I talk about movies that don't work or that are, you know, outright failures. Like that can be kind of fun too. Can I share it also? It made me feel like I was able to live in a Tom weights song. That is well played.

This is just like that's the thing with a Tom weights song. Like this is just not my climate. I just, you know, it's a Tom weights song. It's not your climate. Well, because Tom weights is, you know, that sort of the buy you.

And this is kind of like the, you know, the same thing. It's two, the air is just too wet for me. Like I would just be struggling. Yeah. I can't be in in this sort of jungle weeks.

This is a damp movie. Yes. I love the beauty. She'll love the water. Yeah.

“Like that, that's sort of, I know I would just, I would suffer very hard.”

They let the actors sweat. Right. You do. It's part of the sexiness. It's part of the, like, and like,

Yeah. So the decision right.

So it's basically chills like, hey, this shit's about to go down.

You got to get out. And he's like, aren't I fucking journalists? Like, right? He does the one kind of journalistic thing. I'm going to, you know, publish this news.

But it's selfish. Because he's like, this is my big story. Right. It's part of your life. It's a little bit of him being a hot dogging.

Right kind of guy. Yeah. You're right. You're right. You're right.

But everyone else is like manipulating him towards positive ends. You know, they're, they're sort of driving him as a vehicle in the right direction. Because I think they all identify. I was thinking a little bit of this movie in relation to broadcast news, which is obviously so much about completely,

uh, excavating the, the way in her character. But there's, there's certain commonalities between these two of just like, Oh, my God. Here's just a guy with the right shoulders and the right eyes and the right voice and the steady hand.

He is so dangerous. If he does not have a moral compass installed in him or the wrong people get a hold of him because immediately is this understanding of whatever this guy communicates to the public is going to be heard. You know, he is like a human printing.

He doesn't have or the legend. Right. Right. I just love to. He's a radio troast.

Like I love hearing him deliver the news. Yes. That is not just that he's writing the pieces. That's seen so good too when he's doing the broadcasting can't stop sweating. Yeah.

Yeah. The character Kumar, we haven't really talked about, but sort of a vital character in the last act of the film. He's a driver. His, um,

the fact that he is, uh, PKI, which is revealed later in the film. Right. He's so obvious when you watch the movie.

Uh, the second was like, Oh, shit.

How many times does Peter wear show him sort of looking, giving side eye to, uh, to the other woman who works in the office or I mean clearly he's, it's like everybody knows it, but Mel Gibson.

“But that's what I love about this is like you kind of five of Gibson is just,”

he's not dumb, but he's just too innocent to really understand like, the die has sort of been cast. Well, that's also like I've arrived in a situation that is already wrapping up. And I, I'm just like here to have fun and learn things. It's the other thing that reminded me of broadcast news where you're just sort of like,

there is this cultural reckoning with has the media become something that is now out of our control. You know, it has gained too much power. We have given it to a medium. We don't quite understand where the values can be completely thrown out of whack,

based on things like watchability, you know, and the right answer to that is yes. Yes, yes. And that, uh, you know, there's this attitude of William hurts more aware that he's part of the problem,

but he's sort of like, if not me, then who? Someone else is going to do it, right? And he's right. I'm not the one who created this situation. You know, with, with some years you can look at it and go,

oh, actually if it's not William hurt, it's going to be another William hurt. And, and the other part of it is, for better or worse, this guy projects intelligence, whether or not he has intelligence is irrelevant,

whether or not he understands the situation is irrelevant. It is that no one will listen to Billy Quan, and people will listen to Sigourney Weaver even less, despite being a megabate movie star,

That's right. Right.

And this guy is going to be able to, yeah, he's a megaphone.

He's going to be hurt. He's the best kind of character. Smart enough to know that what he wants is going to happen, but still like a little bit of a, like, can't dodge the true believer thing.

I like what if you fed your people or what if you helped, you know, in the way I know you want to, or you could, or what, you know, and it's such a great, you know. Again, the third man.

Yeah, he's, Holly Martin's ghost to the same, the same crisis over the course of the film, not understanding the situation he's in, having the situation explained to him still doesn't get it, has to see the situation, play it out in front of him.

Yes. This sort of start to grasp just, just what the stakes are. It is what I also find fascinating about, like the possible queer reading of this movie, and the Billy Quan character,

is there is a notion of,

is Billy Quan someone who was born biologically female,

who has adapted the persona of a male, whether through like a genuine expression of gender identity, or strategic means to an end to be taken seriously and to be able to power these things.

“I think there is like a queerness that Linda Hunt plays,”

and in this interview I read where she made the super persona comment, she said that was a deliberate thoughtful thing in her mind that she was not like clearly I am playing this role like a cross-dresser, but I think it's part of what's fascinating about this performance,

is it doesn't just feel like well, this is like a stylistic kind of flourish that you just suspension of disbelief by this performance. Even I think in how every scene is played, the other characters kind of eyeballing Billy and going,

what's going on here. What's the deal? And part of that is that Billy holds his cards close to his chest, but part of that also is like, so that's the haircut,

everything's a little,

no one has really looked or sounded like this.

Death Billy very sad. And just like, that's really of course like, I mean, do you vibe it? I don't really think that guy's in danger as much as guy is in real danger after that,

and gets through the blockades and gets to the airport. But you are like, right, but the loss already happened. I mean, I guess like guys like it's fucked up.

“Well, and he has to navigate it without any help from Billy, right?”

It's not just Billy's death, but that he does have a bad guy. And what he has to navigate is how, like it's a fucking a dodge. Right.

And then it's right. There is like, it's not like, I'm going to expose this. I'm going to. Right.

Oh, I just watched the government murder journalist, like in the series, like, where's the fucking airport? But it's so, it's so silly that he goes to the palace and the way he conducts himself.

Right. Right. It's like clearly he's, he's not thinking it is right mind because he's upset, but also he doesn't have Billy to guide him anymore.

Yeah. Right. Right. Right. That's not going to work.

Well, he's also got the presumption of a white guy. Yeah. Like they wouldn't dare kill me, right? Right. And there's something so,

kind of like undignified about Billy's death. Right. And even the way it is shown on screen, that we get the moment of the breaking through the door and Billy's reaction.

And then we're mostly seeing just the body lying on the ground afterwards. Once guy comes to the sea. A guy later says when they're cleaning up Billy's stuff that Sikarno didn't even see the banner.

Right. Yeah. Right. It's not some epic sacrifice moment. Right.

Sure. Yeah. It's not effective. Yeah. It's a dumb pointless.

But you understand that, you know, the motivation, this sort of like, yeah, the desire to just do something. And Billy's so just dropped because he's been giving money to that family and that young boy gets sick

and passes away.

“And I think that just like really pushes them over the edge.”

Yes. Yes. And it's like, it's the dehumanization. Yeah. It is the, these are not chess pieces.

These are human beings. We should play the box. I was kidding. You're going straight from, I think so. I mean, is there anything else we want to say about the film?

I'm just, I'm trying to bring the plane in here. I don't want to. I think we haven't to have paid enough attention to Maurice Jarey and yeah, we'll work. Yeah.

Vengilis, who the song is credited in the closing credits, but Vengilis himself is not name checked. So you would almost think that song is written by Maurice. Maurice, and it's not. Yeah.

It's the classic like Peter Weir,

“would just have like a collection of tapes.”

He would play music all the time. Although he's writing rock and roll pop music is really, like it's just fun to have to do for him. And then he just liked that little, you know, that little song he uses.

And uses it twice, obviously, apart from that, it's Maurice. Use it. Use it twice very close together, by the way. It's just sort of unorthodox the way he uses it. Also Russell Boyd.

His guy. Yeah. And to be clear about Jarey Jarey, then goes too high, which does witness does mosquito coast does depot.

It's like becomes weird. This is really the scene that he carries over. Right. Yeah. Legend, like who is, you know,

at picking and hanging rock, like when they have no money figuring out all these innovative ways to like, make the air feel magical, essentially.

He's such an incredible DP.

He's still alive. It's all the more still working, I think. He hasn't really worked much since we are retired. Oh, right. Yeah.

Okay. That's credit is the way back. Yeah. And before that horse, ghost writer. He did shoot Nicholas Cage's ghost writer.

Why is this movie that on 4K? Well, I just already talked about this. It's almost certainly a right thing. But it is odd that no one's left to figure it out. Given where the other.

It's worthy of restoration. Yeah. I agree. And it's worthy of conversation, right? If it doesn't it provide an opportunity

to revisit this question of casting. Sure. The question of politics. And it would seem to me that a new release would provide the opportunity to further that discussion.

I mean, to go hard.

“I think that's why also MGM or to whoever has”

fucking access to MGM home video now through Amazon. Maybe so only isn't going to just be like, Yeah, just like put that one out with the theatrical trailer. I think there's a worry about just giving it the kind of release that deliberately got from Paramount, which is just like,

we put it on a disk. Are you happy versus this is a movie that needs to be like, have a thoughtfully curated extras package of dialogue around it and context provided. So I don't want to one of the specialty labels needs to step up.

Yeah. This film came out. Do you know about the box office game? I've heard you guys play the box office game. I intentionally did not do any investigation because I wanted to play

legit and honest player. So this film came out limited release January 21st, 1983. Wow. So you're a graduated high school.

Congratulations. Thank you. So that's as far as my head to the kitchen. But nevertheless, where'd you go to high school?

Do rant high school and do rant Oklahoma. Hell yeah. So it is obviously it's limited release. It's not on the top. Number one.

It's a lot of holdovers. I would say from, you know, the 82. Yeah. Number one is a big Oscar winning movie of 1982. A comedy classic.

But it wasn't the big. What's Tutsi? It's Tutsi. Tutsi was a December release. Tutsi came out in December.

Yeah. Yeah. The massive box office. Unbelievable box office. And in my past of trying to memorize box office charts and such,

it does just feel like the first four to six months of 1983 are ruled by Tutsi.

Um, until you teach high school, you saw Tutsi at the time. I did. Oh, no. In a packed movie theater. Yeah.

Did you enjoy Tutsi? I love it. Do you have you thought about Tutsi lately? I know. Now I feel like I'm like a psychiatrist.

And Tutsi in the room with us. We did a 1982 movie draft on the big picture. I selected Tutsi. I listened to it. Yes.

A film I've only seen once. Really. Maybe twice. Yeah. But I enjoyed.

But I have not seen in years. Which what? Tutsi? Yeah. Were the of revisions.

Yeah. I'll rewrite Tariah edition very good. Okay. Um. Number one.

Number one. Number two. Number two. Well, it's only been out for a few weeks. But it has made damn.

It's made 81 million dollars.

“I think at the time was one of the 10 highest grossing films in American history.”

All right. Yeah. So number two is an action film that had come out earlier in December. Okay. That's a very much gigantic breakout hit for one of its stars for one of its stars.

I mean, the other guy is it's a two hander. It's a two hander. Yeah. You have a guy's a little bit more of a name. I guess it's sort of a breakout for both of them.

Uh, but for especially for this supporting. For the sort of one guy was already more established. But the less established guy really kind of popped on this. Become the most famous actor of the eight. Action comedy.

Yes. Very much. It's a 48 hours. Oh. Yes.

Alterals 48 hours. Yes. Like an old see at that point. Yeah. He's not nobody.

No.

No. No. No.

But, you know, he's a stable company.

Yeah. Yeah. And Eddie Murphy is 21 years old. But a child, essentially. So fucking.

So those are, I mean, like, obviously those are, like, sort of. Yeah.

“It's like, basically, if you want to go see, you know, this kind of comedy.”

That kind of kind of come right there. They're just kings of the box office. Number three is, I mean, and now I'm thinking about the 1980s. So, I think I got that in the legal draft on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that.

Yeah. So, I think I got that in the legal draft on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that. I think I got that in the legal draft on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that.

I think I got that in the legal draft on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that on big picture.

If we're just all reminding people to do that on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that on big picture. If we're just all reminding people to do that on big picture. If we're just all reminding people of our past draft. I got the verdict.

I got the verdict. You got the verdict. Absolutely. That was my, like, not the one. I think so.

I can try to look it up. But the verdict is the best. I got the verdict in the 82 draft. Why do I feel like I'm going to look it up. Oh, because I took 12 angry men.

I don't know. I think you got this. You guys didn't legal draft. I did a little bit more lawyer movie draft. I got this is lawyer movie.

It was from a comedy thriller Oscar winner movie lawyer that you would want to represent you. Oh, nice. And then John Grisham was a tone category. And I got the verdict. Intolerable cruelty.

The devil's advocates Chicago. The firm and Atticus Finch. Not bad. You got rid of spies legally blonde. Michael Clayton, Philadelphia.

The rainmaker in Grisham. And then you picked a Stanley 2 chance spotlight as your lawyer.

“Oh, that's what I knew that I had for the first time.”

I knew that I had first round pick.

And I was like, what would I have gone for over the verdict? And the answer was I knew it was going to be a feeding frenzy for Michael Clayton. You got Michael Clayton. I had to get Michael Clayton. Yes.

Yeah. So, okay. Yeah, the verdict. So, number four is Gandhi. What's your take on, of course, the best picture winner.

It will or it's about to be the best picture winner. Gandhi. What about it? Your big fan? No.

It's just like you guys all kind of shad on Gandhi. We didn't eat it. No, maybe. They shad on it more than I did. It was important in the moment and Kingsley was undeniable.

Kingsley's unbelievable in it. I think Gandhi is, you know, it's not one of the great movies of the 82. But it gets a slightly bad rap. It's like, it's very watchable. I still have good.

Never seen it. Yeah. I have it in that big Columbia classics box set. Yeah. And I'm just like, when am I in the mood to just throw on three hours of Gandhi?

Let me tell you. Well, Kingsley really elevates. I mean, they're really is a way on board with that movie. But also to see a hundred thousand extras.

“That's why it's just on this unimaginable.”

You'll never see it again.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's all right. I mean, you know, it's not incredible. It's got all the flaws you think it has.

Number five is a real Griffin movie. It's a real Griffin movie. Is it an 82 holder or an 83? It's an 82 holder. A fantasy film.

It's a fantasy film. It's like one of my favorites or is it just my type of thing? I'm sure you love it. It is the dark crystal. Yeah.

I like it. Oh, my son's favorite movie. Well, there you go. Most watched movie in our house. Scary.

He loves scary. Can I tell you the movie I almost bought as one of the three? And I actually just could not physically locate a copy in time. But if you have not watched it with your son yet, I highly recommend. Have you guys done paranormal?

He got scared by, uh, is it called Coraline? Yes. He got scared by Coraline. Yeah. Coraline's scared.

And so, uh, we haven't gone back into, he likes box trolls. And I noticed you had done James the giant peach as well. Yeah. But trolls is the guy who eats the cheese and his face. Ben Kingsley.

Yeah. He's good. But it's very freaky. Yes. Paranormal is about fear.

Yeah. It is like a reckoning with fear. And I think it is one of the better, uh, dramatizations of fear mongering. I have ever seen. We haven't on the shelf.

I think it is steel. Okay. Okay. So if I'd gotten it for you, I would have fucking struck out on that one. Okay.

I'll tell you the rest of the top 10. Number six is the toy. Richard Donner film with prior and glycine. It is remake of a French. Yeah.

That's right. I'll just do it. Yeah. Oh, does that have perfect politics? I haven't seen it.

Jackie Gleason buys a black man and hands him to his son and says have fun. Uh, another Oscar. So that's a December 82 release that didn't really translate. Uh, none of their Oscar were pretty big hit though. Not at the same scale.

It's a 147 nine. It's pretty good. Uh, Sophie's choice. Sure. Which is, you know, is okay.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what you feel about Sophie's choice. Haven't seen it since then. Uh, the same thing.

Well, I've seen it since then. I was on cable a lot.

I've recall it being pretty good.

Yeah. Peter McNickle. Fantastic. It's, it's, it's careers fascinating. What do you zoom out?

Right. How much time you discover him later in life? Right. You're like, okay.

“So who's, what's this, how did this guy get started?”

You know, like, Sophie's choice is not what you would expect. Uh, numbers. Uh, sorry. Number eight is best friends. The bird bird.

And it's Goldie Haunt. Oldie Haunt. Valerie Curtin. Uh, screenplay. Okay.

Yeah. Valerie Curtin wrote it with. Very Levinson. Yeah. And it's based on their friendship.

Right. So is it a sort of like, they're like, It's a bit of fun. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, When Harry Metsali.

Right. Right. Directed by Norman Juiston.

I've never seen no man in it.

It's not great. It's your friend off. Number nine is ET. Big one. Big movie.

And then, uh, number 10 is the man from Snowy River. What is the Australian film? Redirected by George Miller. Not that George George T. Miller.

Yeah. Wow. Who also directed the never ending story, too. Yes. Australian Western.

Griffin was offered Crocodile Dundee and had to turn it down. I can't believe it cracked the top top thing. Well, it's, it's opening at number 10. So not amazing. But yeah.

But yeah. Kurt Douglas. It's what we were saying. The, the Australian kind of like, Australian fever is cracked.

Douglas in dual roles as brothers Harrison and spur. Man from Snowy River is good. I give that a thumbs up. Right. And it got a, it even got a sequel.

Man from Snowy River too. What's the, what's the physical media report? A man from Snowy River. What are we looking at? I don't think I own it.

Okay. I don't know. Uh, let's say.

“So do you have to sort of do to flee like,”

like, like, because the, the, the database thing. What's the CLZ year? Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, my problem is I'm always like,

Did I put this in her? You know, like, where you do this little barcode scanning. Yeah. But every day, I assume, another palette arrives.

You're opening them up. It's my, it's my full time job. It's my full time job. It's my, like, it's my, like,

it has an Amazon driver. Anyone like that ever said to you like, you're hard. How can do you? He's funny. I guess I live in the dormant mirror.

He never said that to my wife. No, sir. I live in a dormant mirror. I'm building humble brag. Can you do it?

It does feel like every time I pick up a package. They're like, got a lot of stuff shipped to you. How do you look how many do you have? I think I'm probably around a thousand. But I'm not due to flea logging.

I should. How do you store them? Like, do you have shelves? I mean, I, you know, I don't really know. I have shelves that I have outgrown.

There are now pillars of vertically stacked discs. Like the books and Ghostbusters. This is my problem. I also have too many discs and stores.

“A very well arranged, like shelving situation.”

But it's full. Yeah. And so now the new stuff arrives. And I'm like, well, I'll give you this. That is exactly what I'm at.

I now just have, like, a shelving unit that is full. And then a corner where discs live. Yeah. And I'm in between. I'm waiting on the new shelves.

I'm watching this bud butterker Western's right now. That criterion. Is that what it has? We did the F.T. And all the right now in Western.

Right now Western's right. During I did every one of them. We did like one a week for five weeks. How are they? They're fantastic.

Yeah. Every one of them. I'm really liking the sort of, like, I just have to wash my desks because then it's sort of like, the choices out of my hands.

Like, I'm not going to agonize over. This is why Kerry wants me. Which is why I picked the movie every night. Right. Right.

Like, I don't want to choose. I don't want to choose. I don't want to choose. He's like, I, you, the shelves intimidate me. The streaming tiles.

I can't make heads or tails of it. You pick. You put it on. No bitching. Obviously, she's got veto power.

I think that. It's a rare thing together. Right. She's vetoed two movies. Look at the TV test.

Or is it a secret? One of them was a movie with Kate Blanchet. And Judy notes on a candle. No, it's on a scandal. I hadn't seen it.

I put it on and Kerry said, I've seen this and I remember it. Okay. Okay. So is it?

Which is the right amount? That was one veto. Paralyment. No, remember something else? No, it's on a scandal.

It's a Paralyment Hill class. A Paralyment Hill class. There's a lot of scenes. There's a lot of scenes. That's a Paralyment Hill class.

There's a Paralyment Hill class. There's a Paralyment Hill class. There's a Paralyment Hill class. There's a Paralyment Hill class. There's a Paralyment Hill class.

There's a Paralyment Hill class. And she doesn't blame me when the movie is bad. She never taps out. Sometimes it's hard to keep her awake because she gets up early. But that's an epic house.

There's a lot of life. There can keep me making her sit up. And I scratch her back while we finish. But your kids do a good bedtime. This is the biggest thing in my life.

It's pretty good with the bed. Good for that. Now occasionally I'll put on a movie that I've seen that I like. And she watches it. And she's like, what the fuck?

The fuck. Sure. The brood. There's still a conversation in our house still. This is like a movie rug.

But I mean, it is certainly going to be in the right mood for it.

Which I love. Yes. And I know it's like divorce movie. And it's like that movie rock. But yeah.

I want to make sure I said everything I have to say. I wanted to pitch about Marie. No did. So where it has a badge of honor. I wanted to say, oh, the big picture, right?

The big, you know, this is questionable. Whether or not I'm a big picture or blank check. Well, can we get ahead? Can we get a cartoon likeness of you?

“Where on that desk and tell people they're sitting at crazy's desk?”

We're allowing you to sit at Tracy's desk today. Right. We're not possessive like Sean. We're not. This is a very free and open environment.

Sean's a little bit more with the chairs. The committee. We're going to all this go. Lucy. So I do, I read she air dropped a contract over to you.

If you want to look it over.

There's potentially a five year first look deal on the table.

Not exclusive, but first look. I was surprised that you guys had guests come back. I didn't realize that till I listened to somebody recently. Yeah. You're like, oh, they came back.

So I want to look at your, I want to look at your list. So I'm a little bit. We will, well, dictated by March Madness. Tracy, the next. We'd love to have you on any time.

I don't know if you know this. But you're, you're quite an estimable person. So we don't want to just like bug you all. But we'd love to have you back. I, I don't feel like that, but that's, that's all well and good.

Right. The last thing I want to say is that you're living dangerously. So I showed it to Kerry years ago. Again, oh, I didn't know the other things we wanted to talk. Did we want to cover Star Wars or did we want to cover.

Cover Godfather. So we're going to say it in Star Wars. Okay. So it's on Star Wars too. So Kerry doesn't remember the movies.

I showed her year of living dangerously a few years ago. She had no recollection of it. The Nanny and I were watching in a couple of nights ago in progress or this former sagging. Yes. Yes.

And Kerry walked in halfway through the motion. She'd been working in town and she walked in and halfway through the movie. And she's like, I remembered none of this. I have no recollection of any of this. But she watched Mel Gibson for a few minutes.

And she said, I got it. He's so in his body to watch the way he moves on cameras. Just like it really is what he could do. There's a scene where he's going out to the airport at the very end of the movie.

And he does a jog. That is sort of high stepping jog. He does on the way out to the airport. And it is a marvel to see. It's too bad what happened to that guy.

He was one of our. And a very great movie star. And I think even before he went publicly insane, he lost some thread of like the kinds of movies. He did, you know, you got to into this with a Hollywood gigantic paycheck work.

But then also his revenge thriller started getting weirder and darker in a way that. He's an incredibly magnetic screen presence. I mean, especially in the 80s. That is a very good quote from her.

And I often almost always the the infrequent times that I now work as an actor.

I think I still a lot more now on a professional podcast. Who sometimes acts. I think about a quote. I'd like to find myself. I'll tell you the first time you did big picture after hitmaker had set it up.

Right. And we were watching all that happen. We have a text thread called News and Deals that Alex Russ Perry is in as well as well. The great filmmaker David Lauri were all sharing. Blu ray announcements and deals.

And we saw it happening. Right.

“Hitmaker saying, you should maybe have tracing.”

Do you know Tracy? Yes, I can connect it. This and that. And we go, Sean, you've recorded Tracy. How was it?

And he said, if that guy ever decided to start a movie podcast. We'd all be close. I'm right down the chair. We're done. That's very sweet.

It is our saving grace that he is showing the man in both areas.

He is so esteemed and so many other fields that he never will commit to a permanent desk,

which is why you can be third chair, fourth desk, whatever. But I remember some interview. You, uh, carry Gabe where she talked about being a full body actor. How she feels like she can always rely on her theatrical training. Two in on camera work, which is often so bizarre.

And non-sensical and can leave you in a position where things are changing so fast. And you have so little bear in aware you're in the story that you can look kind of non-specific and a scene that she relies on her instincts in using her full body and everything. And any time I'm acting professionally again, I go like am I doing full body after shit? Or am I just thinking about my fucking head?

Very nice. Very nice. Well, she's also a lot coming from her. She's also a former athlete.

“And I male clearly has some athletics in the back of it as well, right?”

It's a big part of it. Yeah. And I think, I mean, you're talking about like, you know, the shame of how fully this man unravel. But it is an interesting thing where like, great actors are often people who have a really great dialogue on going with their own psychology

and their own body and ability to take control of these things and use them in a very deliberate way.

There is some inherent tension that makes them more unwatchable. Even if it makes them less functional as a human being and sometimes it is in a destructive way. Sometimes it's in a self-destructive way. Sometimes it's just oddness.

“You know, you meet certain movie stars and you're like, how do you tie your shoes?”

But on screen, I will buy anything you are selling. It is a fasting thing. And you know, we were talking with Marie now officially on the shit list. Recently, who was saying that she had just rewashed Apollo 13 and she was like, how the fuck did Braveheart beat Apollo 13 for best picture?

And we were like, you cannot overstate how powerful Mel Gibson was at that moment.

Yeah, it's really true. Yeah, he was Star Wars. Yes. So you throughout one of the worst movie takes I've ever heard of all time. Wait, I remember that.

You don't like the trench run, right? That that you forgot. Yeah, we said, we all agreed that the idea of Star Wars sucks. You know what I said was that the ending of Star Wars is the most boring climax to a great move. That's what I said.

Yeah, it's so sad. But you said it like we're all on the same page. Yeah, and you're saying it to boys there. I mean, a boy and girl. But you know, like, we're like, I watch the trench run.

I would watch the trench run over. I would remind my VHS. The DVH has degraded. The trench run tattooed on his body, like he's the fucking prison break character. And the thing about the trench run to me is like, I love the climaxes of the other Star Wars movies

where he had more money and he went more epic. But it's actually kind of small in this beautiful, dramatically. Yeah, it's like perfect.

“And even like, I think these moments that are constantly ripped off from that sequence,”

but exploded and overstated even down to just the return of Han Solo at the moment. You think he's gotten no support. I just think so gracefully and sort of succinctly done without making too much of a meal out. All right. Let me tell you, millennial boys that they're doing.

We're young ass. We're never. It's an old millennial. You know, you. Millennials are so monolithic in their movie opinions.

Let me tell you.

First of all, we never called the fucking trench run.

I don't know if you ever came up with the trench run. Oh my god. The end of Star Wars. And by the way, the movie was called Star Wars. I always call it Star Wars.

That I am with. In a house. It was not a by force. A new whole doesn't fucking exist. Definitely.

Sounds like he had five minutes. Where he was. They were like, by the way, are you going to put like a title in the other one? He's like, uh, yeah. You.

It's so so new. Right. So funny from Delano that title after he's promised he would make prequel some day, but hadn't figured out what the prequels were. And he was like, the one safe bed is, this is probably a reset point because all

it a new hope because Star Wars isn't a good title. Clearly Star Wars isn't working. It's so crazy. How good a title Star Wars is. So a new hope, which is like, sounds like a faith little L.

“Isn't it crazy that Star Trek was a title before Star Wars?”

Yeah. Right. Like Star Trek sounds more esoteric. What is that? Why did you pick that?

No one had done Star Wars? No. The actual trench run itself. Right.

First of all, you know, it's stolen from a movie called The Dam Bus.

Yes. He would cut in footage of it, right? Yeah. The dam bus just damn good movie. Very good movie.

Do you get him? Uh, but we've not. What? Why is Luke piloting one of these? God damn.

Because he used to what? Shoot dead. One question is T14. Yeah. I don't know.

Do you really think that he has the know how to get into this movie? Yeah. It's like a drive into this crevice. It is really funny. It is really funny.

That you imagine, like, this is a, a rag tag rebel group. Yeah. They're like, we've scraped together like 10 of these ships. Yeah. And he shows up and they're like, yeah, you're like six foot two.

Yeah. You want to get in this? They also, first of all, he's like five foot 10. Yeah. Secondly, they got like, like 20 like life for pilots.

And all of them fucking flame out. Yeah. And Luke is the last. But he shows him one. Yeah.

Of course. But why are we supposed to care about? Victor Bono who suddenly shows up. Laying the movie in the ship is just like, where did he come from? Who's he's?

And I'm one of the guys. One of the big picture guys tells me that character has a name. Porkins. Porkins. We're talking about pork.

The actor is actually William Williams. He does have a really rude of you. Victor Bono. I saw William who can play. I've told Griffin this.

I'm sure I've made. I mean, there's a play called Hitchcock blonde. And he played Hitchcock on the West End stages. Yeah. And David Hague and Camembert.

He's not so with us, right? Who can's? He must be pretty old. He also he's in Raer's lost arc. He's the guy you assume that Porkins.

That there was a scene between Porkins and the mechanic who put Porkins in the thing.

Do you suppose there was a scene between Porkins and Beans?

Yes. They're better. Tracy. And you are getting at why?

“It is Star Wars has the cultural triangle hold it does.”

But because it opens up these questions. But like conversation Tracy, we start thinking about Beans. You could write 10. I'm off his head.

My dad introduces me to Star Wars, obviously, as it's sort of a right. You know, I watch it. Like, and then I'm obsessed with the trend front. And yeah, I only know.

It's like, yeah, there's the guy who gets shot immediately. You know, to prove that there will be deaths. Like where these guys are going to blow up. Yeah, I'm all right. Boom.

Right. That's put. And then you like. Uh, start to read books about Star Wars like you get. And you're like, because the name is fucking porkins.

Like they, they couldn't spend five minutes.

Like figure out a better name for this guy.

Yeah. This guy's got a squid hit. What's his name? I don't know. He's a Mom Calamar.

Why is the Darth Vader in a ship? Why have we? He's in a little typhine or whatever. We've been led to believe that Darth Vader is good at flying. Some of these chips.

So now what you're doing here is very interesting. Because it's sort of what we did when we started the show, which is like, if you examine Star Wars without the further context. Because like, of course, when you watch the prequels, it's like, Oh, he was a crack.

Everything's back filled next plane. But like, you're right that the whole thing with Darth Vader in general, in Star Wars, where it's like, there's a fascist empire. It is mostly run by British white men who are older and are kind of like, It should kill all of them.

Who is this sadist robot who walks around among them with a cape. Everyone else is a fascist Nazi guy. It's what's passing about. It's Peter Kushing. Darth Vader getting retroactive.

They're like, we do a great villain in cinema where you're like, he was meant to be like the weird gimmicky bond henchmen. Yes, there's some big guy who's gotten odd energy. Who is like, like, I just wish someone would be like, where are you on the org chart?

Right. I'm a major. What are you? Why are you getting dark? You're right.

There's an emperor. Then there's something general. I understand all these things. Who are you? And so then it kind of makes sense.

And he's like, I'll get in my ship. Like there's some ships. Like let's go. Why is he getting a ship? Because it's like, that's the guy James Bonnest.

A punch at the end. Because it's not satisfying to watch him punch. Dr. No. Dr. No is like an intellectual. He's not going to punch.

I don't know. I had a lot of good ideas out there. He's got great ideas. I understand. I stand by that take.

I've rewatched Star Wars. The original trilogy with my son. He's liked them. He's watched them two, three times. But he's not. He's not venturing grip by them.

No. And he may be a little young for it. I mean, I saw them all in the movie theaters when they first came out. But he was the right age. Right.

Yeah, right. The other thing with us. It is when I saw them. I saw the rerelead. You know, I've seen them already.

But I was there for the rereleases in '97. Those were my friends. And I was 11. And that was perfect. It was everything.

I couldn't believe how bad Finn and Minus was. I couldn't believe it. It's quantum analysis tough because. Yeah.

I had always been told it was bad.

It's your son. Because. Well, it's, it's bubbling with some interesting ideas and some bad ideas. This podcast only exists because of our obsession with that film and how we are constantly wrestling.

“We keep attacking it being like, are we going to like it this time?”

And then we're going with. Is this good or not as much as what is going on here? And I can tend it as the best of those three. So when it started, people were like, well, maybe he'll like. He's a little rusty.

He'll regain his foot and tend it's the best of the three. It's the best of the three now. I think the pottery sequence is wonderful. Which again, he's ripping up and hurt, but like. It's similar.

The trench rum where he's taking a, a, a classical visual language of an epic cinema of past and applying it to. And future things happen with the prequels lately. You know, the prequels come out. They were hits obviously, but they are derided.

Reviled. Yes. And now that the Disney legacy sequels have come out and had their own life cycle. Now the fans are like, well, the prequels are interesting because they are interesting. They are weird.

They are weird. They are weird. They are weird. They are weird. They are weird.

They are weird. Right. And like lunatic who can fund his own films. Right. And I want to sort of, you know, write about the fall of the Roman Empire.

Right. Like, I want to write about this sort of decline. How do fish just say? But I also think there should be random. We can fish alien because kids watch.

You know what I mean? And like in the original movies, you can see Lucas being tempered and that there's a lot of interest, you know, a lot of mature people around him as well. And the prequels he's unfettered. So he's like, well, have Jar Jar Pink said no one at any point is like, this fucking sucks.

Like, we cannot do this. That's part of the problem when you become as big as George. And I can tell you, now I've overbears Lucas and I review him too. Because there's nothing like him and God bless this thing. You know, he did lots of interesting things.

“But like, I remember reading interviews with Mark Hamill at the time, like in the 90s,”

where he's like, he's the fucking pope.

You can't have a conversation with him anymore.

Like, where it's just like a regular, like, hey, why are you, you know, like,

“and like, that's what, and so they're interesting objects in that way.”

Because like, when, how often does that happen in all I would? Never. Never. So, yeah, that's interesting. But are they like, good movie?

No. But you, you know, fascinating. It sounds like your son watches a lot of goofy Kaiji movies, which rock. But like, they're silly, too, right? Like, it's like the right balance of silliness is something that's going to be hard to find.

Right. Is the, like I said, the question is, is there a creature, and especially are the creatures fighting? I, not to, not to spoil you. I did additionally get two Kaiji action figures for her children. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. See, you think the big picture ever did this? There you go. This is, we treat her guests, right? Especially if we make them do a three hour plus episode.

Yeah. It's been far too long. That's a really, really. That's a funky color adora. But then this is, I think, a really skeleton Godzilla, after he is atomized from the end of the 54 movie at the bottom.

Oh, that's amazing. Isn't that fucking amazing? He has a bigger adora. Okay. But he'll love.

You can't have it. He just had a gamma-a-themed eighth birthday party. It got so many gamma-a-themed. Honestly, the other kids from second grade walked into this being like, oh, yeah. He converted other people like her as his friends into gamma-a-themed.

Not at all. Right, they're all into like K-pop demon hunters. Yeah, whatever.

Which he's never seen doesn't know anything about.

Right. He goes over to a friend's house and they walk, he has no idea what. But he's not coming home being like, I must now watch K-pop demon hunters. I wouldn't talking about it this whole. Oh, right.

Well, that's great. I mean, it's great. I mean, I'm right at the start of this with my kids. It's like, you know, this sort of like the larger osmosis and you. I have to say, I didn't do a lot of conditioning to get him.

K-Jew. Right. This isn't a thing where you, this isn't like, when parents are like, my kids favorite band is the clash and you're like, no, okay. You know, I had the criterion box of Godzilla, which has a big sort of comic book.

I know. I have it myself. Right. He became interested in those visuals before he could even read and paid through that and he went through that over and over.

He memorized all that. I taught him the titles. He memorized all the titles. And then I said, well, if you like this so much, maybe we should watch one of the movies. And I put on one of the movies.

That's it. I mean, that's right. But what's they are weird? Yeah. Yeah.

They're weird to watch.

They're not like movies now.

Like your daughter. You haven't shown them. No. My daughter is quite fearful as she loves movies. Yeah.

I mean, and she loves Bowser. Who is something of a kind? I got her the big Godzilla toy, which she all trains between being scared. Well, now the Godzilla toy is just a favored friend in her house. Griffin got her a Godzilla that's like large.

How old again? My boy is 54. But he got her this a couple years ago. And initially, yes, sometimes the Godzilla had to be put away. Yeah.

Right. Like it was a little old. And then had to act like Godzilla was eating his finger. And that was a bit was silly. She was like fucking dead comedy.

She knows you guys will come over again. She's been asking. Hey. Hey. Wow.

Any time. But yeah. But she hasn't seen Godzilla yet. No. I got I got one.

She doesn't like when Ursula gets big in the little room. Maybe like that like freaks her out. Yes. And so that's also Kai jujations. But I've been like maybe.

But I also think large is your story. Don't start with 54. Start with the movies where Godzilla is the good monster. And he fights the bad monsters. Yes.

Right.

“I think maybe the first movie he watched was destroy all monsters.”

That I would say is the best. Because then you also have the menia in that one, right? The the the the witch. And I was going to say the little little baby Godzilla. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know that one. That one's cute.

He's cute. He's a good answer. I'm not even that deep fun Godzilla. I'm not. I'm not.

All right. So I want to shout out. We have I looked up her Indonesian listenership. The last 12 months. Got about like 1500 downloads.

Really. So there's some folks out there. So we just want to shout out. Absolutely. Very nice.

Hello, Jakarta. What's up? Would love to visit. Sure. It just looks like I was like looking at Google Maps.

Quite stunning. Yeah. If you're one of those 1500. Let us know what the local comedy theater breakdown is. If there's a good opportunity for us to do a live show.

Yeah. Yeah. Please do. Yes. Tracy.

We've taken far too much of your time. Thank you. I can't believe this podcast is going to be four hours long. You're going to have to find some. It's not going to be.

It's going to be three 15, which unfortunately may not even crack. Top five. I don't know. Yeah. I won't crack the tent.

I don't think. So audience. Weirdly just demands longer and longer. I don't know. I don't know why.

You're a king amongst men. You are the boss bitch. You guys are sweet. Have anything to plug is there. I'm just ended.

It's front on Broadway. Yeah. Not plug and nothing. Ben. Did you know?

I loved it. Oh, thanks, Ben.

“I think it really captures the paranoia of being on drugs.”

Thanks. Bug rocks.

As I've said before, this is my job.

The acting and the playwriting is hot. It's just right. You're plugging physical media.

“And the value of owning the films you've talked about.”

You've plugged it into a plan to pass. But you guys, yes. Tracy has spoken very well of why it's great to own a desk. But, you know, our fans already know that. Yeah, I would say.

I will tell you as someone with an unfortunately an overwhelming amount of anxiety. At most times in my life. I'm constantly trying to find different pieces of media that can function as a bomb for me. Things that for whatever reason, physiologically.

Just calm me down, slower the heart rate.

Lower the heart rate. Lower the heart rate. Lower down the heart rate. We need to learn form interviews with you. Have started really doing the trick.

Great voice. Very nice. You've got a great voice. But thank you for being here. We will absolutely force you to come back again.

We will hold you to your openness. And thank you all for listening.

“Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.”

Tuning next week for witness with Amanda Dobbins. Dobmob for life. We're doing it. He's crossing the ocean. He's coming over to Hollywood.

Yep. This episode. This series has Dobbins as Sean has hit maker. It's got all the big voice. Yeah.

Yeah. Thanks, y'all. Thank you. This is always. And as always.

I have to ask because I almost bought it. Have you seen slash do you own slash has your son seen the role in Emerald Godzilla? No.

“And is that a forceful blocking him from that experience?”

No. In fact, when he turned eight, I said to him, "You can now watch any Godzilla movie. If Godzilla's in it, you can watch it."

Wow. And it had not been the case before he was eight. That's like the best version of like the birds and the bees talk. You're old enough to start. I was like, he was limited for a long time to show it era.

Yeah. I expanded the high say era, but now he can watch any Godzilla movie. Wow. If he ever watches it, please let us know. Because I think he will hate it.

But I was curious. I didn't want to infect your collection with the disc. I don't think it's a good film. Much like Phantom Menace.

I've always been fascinated by how broken it is.

But I thought about his age and really struggled with why it didn't make me happy. Length check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin, Newman, and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKean.

This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKean and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lay Montgomery in the Great American novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Our work by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is minic.

Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, blank check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social @blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter checkbook on Substack.

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