Celtics Most Consequential Win Of Year? + Adam Silver Takes a Major Stand

Just to get rid of it and then get rid of it. No, not at all. This is my safe space. You're all right, right? Yes, exactly.

This is the way the story is, which is just a story.

“The story of the job or the way the story is.”

It's not like the story is a story. The story is a story. - Save. With this story. Hello, welcome to the Who-Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA,

which we are doing on Thursday afternoon. I guess it's evening out on these coasts. And that's where our guy Vince Goodwill is joining us from Boston, Massachusetts. What up, though, Wendy, how you doing?

I'm good, man. I'm in LA. And joining me from up north, in North Cal, in Sacramento, is he in his backyard or is he in his studio with a picture of his backyard behind him?

You'd be the judge, Anthony Slater. - Well, you were talking about like, what time it is in various places. It's like permanently one PM in this location. And I am zero mile per hour wind.

You won't see any movement behind me. But yes, that's, you can decide. Am I in my backyard or in a fake version of it? Vince, when he got his new studio set up in, you know, they had this beautiful screen behind

and people were upset that we didn't have the backyard anymore. We sort of tracked it the year by the growth in the backyard. And you know, so the backyard is back. That's all I can say. - You know, I thought it was a screen, the whole time.

- We don't get a living. - It would have been an impressive screen. I was doing, there was like some December hits where I was talking about like clay Thompson's like foggy and a little rainy out.

I could like, you know, control the weather. This one, I can't control the weather on. So, we just need to get a series of photos for the mood of the situation. - I will say, John, prior to taking this photo

about an hour ago, I had a modal on before taking the photo. (laughing) - Don't have to, don't have to mode again, though.

- That's right, you'll never have to mode again, glorious.

“All right, Vince, you were at what I think ended up being”

one of the most consequential games in the NBA so far this year on Wednesday night. It'll be a little bit dated by the time the pod comes out. But I still think that we need to pay attention to it. Europe and Boston, Thunder in town,

was a 12 game win streak, 12 game win streak. - Yep. - Celtics, and both teams really had full strength, right? I think they were everybody was playing. - Only Bulsabitch for the Celtics as well.

- That's right, that's right, Nicola Bulsabitch was out. And what we saw was a very consequential game with the Celtics winning. And what I thought was, I don't like the idea of a statement game from a champion

and finals MVP, Jalen Brown, but I think he felt a certain way about the way this game went down. - Yeah, he looked like he was playing the game on a mission, especially early in the game when the Celtics.

It seemed like it seemed like this to you, Wendy, and Slater from watching from afar. It seemed like the Thunder were just on the verge

of blowing Boston out in the first and second quarter.

And you just look up and you're thinking that down 15 and everything like seven. And Boston just kept hitting a shot to keep themselves close. And then Jalen Brown went and did the things that ShakeYo just Alexander does.

Like the step back, the pump made the lean in. And I'm going to get filed by you on your shot and hit a three point play. Like there was an extra degree of force from Jalen Brown last night.

“Like I think it's so easy Wendy and Slater”

to focus on the MVP candidate, so to speak. You know, Shay and Jalen Brown was stuck out to me was that J double. Jalen Williams was playing the second game back after mission 26 of 28 games with that hamstring injury.

And Jason Taden was playing, I think, his ninth game. And I think the conferences respectively might be terming by those players more than the stars. Like Jalen Williams has to get it going so that teams don't load up on Shay

and ask Alex Carruso and Cason Wallace in Ludor to make shots. Like there is a book, defensively out on a thunder. Not many teams can actually execute it, but there is a book so to speak.

And it's going to be to load up and make somebody else make shots. And J dub has to be able to alleviate some of that pressure for the Celtics up until last night. Jason Taden was shooting the most shots per 36 minutes in his career.

And I know people are thinking like, what does that mean? To me, that shows he's trying very hard

to become the Jason Taden that he's always been.

And I don't know if he can actually achieve that this year. And it might not even matter, 'cause the Celtics might just be that good. They can use a diminished version of Jason Taden and still get through the Eastern Conference.

Playoffs, they can just find out what's left. - Right, I mean, you know.

you know, the Jalen Brown leaned in one with like that was one of my favorite kind of moments of the season right the way he giggled,

“'cause when did they play Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City?”

- That's nice, though. - Okay, and he had the post get, what was the postgame comedy had? Like, I don't file bait or like we shouldn't be reward. - Yeah, that's the.

- Right, right, yeah. - And then he shot like 21 free throws a couple games later. It's almost like he left that game after making that comment. I was like, yeah, let's see if I try a few of these things. And it's been working, right?

And I've never seen Jalen Brown so satisfied after a make

then he was on that pump fake lean in on Shay and one. But, you know, to Vinny's point and even Bryan, the way you framed it is like kind of a statement game for Boston, I think in a lot of ways it is. They're like coalescing and taking them, I think,

has this usage rate because I think he's trying to as quick as possible to get himself to a level, you know, the highest level he can by play off time, 'cause it's such a shortened season for him. But on the thunder side, while yes,

they were whole for the first time in a while. It's such a, like, fresh wide rotation version of themselves. Jalen Williams, what do you play? 24 minutes, maybe I saw him in the first half. He's so fresh off this injury.

“And I think they did play like an 11 man rotation.”

Everybody was playing like 21, 22 minutes. They're trying to play McCain and Isaiah Joe.

And I, you know, I saw, you were on NBA today

today, when do you with Jeremy Lynn? - Yes, I was. - Yeah, he broke a down on the way. - There's less two days Jeremy Lynn. I must say that as a quick aside,

Jeremy Lynn is in for the week, guys. And, you know, we have occasionally some, you know, relatively major names that come through that studio. There was a bunch of folks who wanted to like drop by the studio

to say hi to Jeremy Lynn. The guy is a, especially for a certain, you know, group. Is a gigantic star. (laughs) So it was interesting to watch,

watch people like who are used to being, you know, they don't care about Kendrick Perkins. They were very, very excited to see Jeremy Lynn. - About the level of when they see Brian Wenthorse. - I know.

- That's something, so, but I mentioned him because he did like a little like breakdown of the way Boston attacked, you know, Oklahoma City. And did, it did seem like almost playoff game planning from Missoula and he's like, you know,

they're trying to get McCain as, you know,

the bottom man is like basically the help side guy

and I said Joe was being targeted in all that. And I just don't think the thunder and marked diagonal, especially in Jay the longest, second game back, we're at all attacking it as a playoff game. I think you could shorten the rotation.

If your smalls are getting exploited like that, we know what type of rotation that thunder have. If they shorten it to eight or nine and it just went defensive hounds out there. So, so, very impressive from the Boston side,

but I wasn't like ringing any alarm bells on the Oklahoma City side. - Yeah, it's a quick aside. I have talked to some people about the icons of whether you game plan when you wanna show your cards

and regular season game. In fact, I was talking to another one of my studio mates at the right now, Michael Malone about it. And he said that, you know, you may not, he said it was more like that you didn't necessarily

wanna show, you know, after time out plays that you may use, you know, later on the season because that's one of the things I remember earlier this year, this is an aside to an aside. Well, here this year I had a dinner

with an advanced scout and his team was playing. That, what we were sitting there watching the end of the game, his team was playing. And, you know, he had just prepared the, the scouting report for the for that game, you know,

the day before, two days before. And we got into a situation where his team was going to be having to defend a side-out of bounds play.

“And he goes, okay, I think his team was playing Boston, actually.”

He's like, okay, Mazula is either gonna go with A, B or C. I'll be able to tell you as soon as they line up what they're gonna do. And as soon as they lined up, he goes, okay, they're going with play B.

And of course, he was exactly right. He goes, " Mazula, Mazula goes to this all the time " in this late game situation." He was right and I'm fairly certain, yeah, I don't remember how the play turned out,

but his team won. And so, those are some of the things that, you know, if you have special plays that you may run, you know, late game situations, you know, after ATO stands for after time out, ATO.

And maybe you may not show those things, but balloons like, you know, you definitely could somewhat, you know, show a game plan that you may use. Like, you know, there's not many surprises in the NBA.

He gives the, what happens in the postseason

the front of your players, what I mean, like, you know, they may do something to an individual player that they wouldn't do in the regular season, just because for preparations, but certainly, later is right, then I do think that Mazula treated that game

more like a game of consequence than the Thunder did. - Yeah, I think you kind of had to. I think, for one, when you had a champion, then I said this to someone with the Thunder, and he kind of nodded his head.

When you're the Thunder, and you're the defending champion, there's no more big games in the regular season. Like, there are big games, but there are no more big games. To some degree, you are everybody's big game. You are everybody's champion, so to speak,

where you're used to, you know, playing 82 playoff games.

“And it's, in a sense, like, that's why San Antonio”

gets up for them all the time. And maybe a playoff series is a lot different with the game planning and intensity and everything else. So, I think for Boston, especially considering they're trying to get to a certain level.

Like, they were going to take this game way more seriously. They lost the game two weeks ago in Oklahoma City. They didn't feel great coming out of that. They felt great about the effort. They didn't feel great about the result.

And that's the fact that, look, they're trying to fight off

the New York Knicks for second seed in the Eastern Conference,

like home court advantage in both conferences. I think it's going to mean a lot in second round series. We conference final series. So I just think, especially with the Tatum fact, they're trying to get him involved and figuring out where he fits

with him. I think he was like 11 for 31. And the two games previously going into that, the Celtics needed that, they needed some positive reinforcement. And I gained way more in Oklahoma City there.

This was the giveaway game for OKC. It is the last game of what a five or six game road trip.

“Yeah, they're on a long game win streak too, right?”

Yeah. More who collected podcast after this. Thanks for its fans. The ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows

and originals across every ESPN network in service. And now you can check if you're already having ESPN unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account. We're sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app.

It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up for activate now. But it did creak the door open for the spurs, which to me, this is more of an MVP conversation than like, you know, top seed home court in a game 7 of a West Final.

Also though, you know, that can be pretty critical too.

But isn't creaking the door open for the one seed creaking the door open a little bit for this Wemby campaign that is just rushing into your TV screens lately? Boy, I'll tell you what, I got a, I haven't talked to anybody in Oklahoma City. So I'm speculating. And I don't even mean what the organization, it doesn't, you know,

that's not even really relevant. If you're a thunder fan in the ground, just Oklahoma's brick town. He wants to walk around brick town, full people. But like everybody else from Nebraska last week, oh, man. I don't imagine, I got an engine that they, that if you're a

shay fan, you're pretty annoyed with the concept that he somehow getting caught by Victor, even though Victor is doing some amazing stuff. Like, she is, he is not slowed down. Like he's had a slump or something like that. And this team's just won 12, they lost with first time in a month.

And like, it's very out there amongst people who are voters, like us. People say, I don't know, like maybe Victor. And like, I can just imagine that the shay fans are not happy. Number one, I was there the game that Shay hit the step back on the nuggets to, you know, the game winner, which felt like the clincher for the end of all the answers.

I just got away for the question. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, that felt like, okay, every piece over. And Vegas kind of agreed, right?

“Didn't he go to like minus 1,000 or something that night?”

And I'm not sure how much he should do. But you know that I knew it was an over, you know why.

Yeah, there's always time.

Yeah, and like honestly, like if, if it's, it's a good move by one beyond that to, like, really vocalize it, like, you know, and again, it's part of why I asked Raymon last night in his press conference, and he gave that four minute 40 second answer. Well, I always appreciate Raymon's being loquacious, but he was being ridiculous. Well, the defensive part, the, there's two sides of the, of his answer.

And I think you're going to get to the ridiculous sense of the defensive part, which is fine, you can go ahead. But the part I actually asked him about, it's a second half of his answer, which is interesting, is like, I believe, and I think he believes that when you do vocalize as he has done in the past, as he did last year, and vaulted himself in the defensive part of your campaign,

if you start a conversation as he did, it, it makes it more likely when the awards.

to Raymon's other part of his argument. Well, that's what Jalen Brown did, too, was it like a month or six weeks ago, events like where he was like on the best two-way player in the league, regardless of whether it's true or not, it started a lot of people talking about great of a two-way player he is.

The amazing thing, the amazing thing, and I said this only get up, it's almost like he

told someone, hey, ask me about MVP, and then someone asks him, and he says, it's funny

“you should say that about MVP, here's what I think about, I have a three-point PowerPoint”

plan on why I believe I am MVP, I have zero problem with a player advocating for himself, the funniest part to me was, he said there's a bit of a debate going on, I didn't know there was a debate going on, but he created one to the power of his own conversation, and the next day it was, is Victor Wimbini, I'm an MVP, and you're forced to actually ask and consider the question, I thought matters had been kind of adjudicated a little bit.

Yeah, well, I think we're going to, we're headed for one of, you know, Bond Simpsons is

going to do his poll here pretty soon, it's going to be one of the most consequential

Bond-Temps polls we've ever seen, because that last poll that Bond-Temps has done, not only has it predicted a bunch in a row, I think it's like four or five, and I don't know, I don't want to put it on the spot, but not only has he been, has he been nailing the winner, but he's been nailing the percentages, like in the last couple of years he got within like one or two percent of the right, though he does a really smart thing, which is he literally just

asked the people that are going to be voting, he asked me every, you know, every time, I vote every year, I mean, are you saying that Wendy is giving Bond-Temps too much credit? No, I'm saying he's given him the proper credit, but the reason he said it right is because he does the smart thing and he goes and he asks the people that are actually voting. Well, you know, what, it's not really a poll, I mean, it is because he's, you know, the NBA doesn't publish

the list of 100 voters and they haven't, and they haven't even selected them yet, so he can't for sure know the 100, but he's probably 100 for 100, but he's going really smart subsection.

“Likely, I think what it's called in the political world, likely voters. And he's not doing”

10 voters, he's doing 100. So he, and he's doing them in all the markets. Like every time he does one, I feel like I've got to tell everybody because I don't think, you know, people probably are annoyed, but like he goes to, you know, the voting be a voters. There's one in every, there's two in every market, I think, right? Then two in every market, so that's 60. Yeah. And then the other 40 are made up of international and national media in all the phases, broadcast,

writing, team media, national media, etc. Hey, buddy, it goes. Yeah. And it should give you, any makes you give you all five, like to give me a pound. That's right. Just like who's doing it? And he got the opportunity. Yeah. You know, you know, it gets your bet. And you know, it's funny, Wendy, there was one year out of the last 16 that I've not had an MVP or a postseason award. And I'm still pissed at both teams for the reason why I was transitioning, we said that sounds

like a bad word. I was going from Detroit to Chicago, from covering the pistons to covering the bulls. I covered the pistons for maybe like 47 games or somewhere around there. And what happens is the teams tell the league, or here are the beat guys. These are the guys that have been covered for all year. That's right. The bulls thought the pistons were putting my name down. The pistons thought the bulls were putting my name down. Neither side put my name down, even though I covered like a

grand total of like 85 regular season games all told, so I did not have an MVP vote, an MVP

vote in 2014, 15, where stuff won this first MVP and all that. And I was, I was despondent. Who

would you vote for? Not stuff would've got my vote that you're paying for. Well, they won like 65 games or 67, 67, they though. First Steve curses. Okay, so the bottom temps poll will be interesting. By the way, like there's like, as any player will tell you, there's downsides to dealing with the media and annoyances and things that infuriate them, whether it's fair or not. So you might as well use the entire spectrum of it. You know, so when you have an opportunity, I mean,

“that's what I'm saying, Victor Smart. As for what Dreyman said, what was annoying about what”

Dreyman said was that he talked about a, as basically a straw man argument, which is, you know, you know, why does he, why does anybody have to say that, you know, the, you know, the, the def, I want to say exactly. Slater, the def, he felt that Wimby saying defense is 50% of

profound statement of like, wow, we just learned today that defense is 50% of basketball. Obviously, it was kind of, in a lot of ways, the self-serving side of him. Yeah, he was burnishing his own resume. Yeah, well, welcome to the world of Dreyman Green. I know. And by the way, took the question, gobble that up through his lens and then definitely had motives within his answers,

delivered it very animatedly and entertainingly, ticked off, Ron Windor, it's always a great

check point. But yeah, I mean, that was him saying, hey, we need to pay more attention to defences of viewing public. Well, let me just say two things that will move on. One, Dreyman, while he's had difficult days and weeks in his career, he is going to go into the Hall of Fame. He has four championship rings. He has gold medal. He is made hundreds of millions of dollars and he's regarded as one of the best defense suppliers of his generation. He's doing okay. That's number one.

Number two is the defense has always been a part of the MVP vote. Yes, there are years when like Niklioka twins, where of defense matters less. But I won't even spend the time to go back and list all of the players who were honored for their defense the same year. They won the MVP. All four years, for example, a bronze won MVP. He was all defense, which did not happen every year

“of his career. I think out of 23 years, a bronze made all defense six or seven times. He won”

MVP four times. It was like he made it 19 times. Jordan won, it was on the all defense of team four of the six times he won MVP. Obviously a couple years ago, Janus won the defense of player of the year and MVP. I can go on and on and on. I mean, Kreme Abdul-Jabar made 12 all defensive teams. He won all those MVP. I didn't look it up, but I'm sure that many of those years he was all defense. I will say to, I will say to some degree, you could make the case that Victor is a more impactful

defense of player than offense of player. There you go. I think there's the case. I think that's absolutely true. What my point is, only with maybe a lies one, one, a lies one, one, and 94, and maybe Dave Robinson, 95, but I think he's a better offense of player. Could you make the argument that the MVP was a more impactful player on defense than offense? I don't think Drake might meant that. What I'm saying, that this would be a remedy in that, in that instance, if you won the award,

if his greatest value is on defense, in a league now, well, let's be honest, we don't say Jack boldedly about defense, like the league has tilted the axis far more towards offense than it has.

Well, that was the point to see even 18 day when I was on first take. He's like, if Drake

mind has a beef, it's the league doing this. I mean, this Shay Armbar, and I don't even know if he pioneered it, but he uses it most effectively, which by the way, Jalen used against Shay last night, and there was in that Minnesota Houston game, which was one of the crazy games of the year. There was one key play where Julius Randall basically threw a punch. He shoved, I can't remember if it was Shen Goon. He shoved that arm so hard that it would, it almost registered

“on the radar gun at Target Field. That's how much he threw that arm, and it was like,”

it frees like, yeah, no problem. So, yeah, you're making a good point. Can I, can I do a Vince goodwill trivia question? I don't know the answer to this, but he might have went because he did it again. Did he hit it again? Yes. Okay, well, I have a trivia question for him right here. Again, I don't know the answer. Maybe Jackson can look it up. What was the fun? Sorry. I'm sorry, later. What was the question that you got, right? The question was from Hembo of the players who

won back to back MVP, who has the highest scoring average of those two years. And the answer was Kareem Abdul-Jubar. Then Lou Alcindor, and the two years he won it the first, I think it's second and third year in Milwaukee, where he might have averaged 31 and 34 or something like that. Who had, so I'm sorry, say that again. Who had the higher scoring average? The highest scoring

“average of, if you want to be back to back, who's the player who scored the most?”

In other words, it's like the Booga-based question, right? She, a shape-based question. She. Oh, shape-based. Well, Luke is the most who won their second, like if you were on that. No, you want to get the win back to back MVP. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Let me, oh, so my trivia question for Vince, when and if has it ever happened or how recent has the MVP also won defensive player in the year? 'Cause it's a little, like, when and defensive player the year. Yannis won both. Yannis won both in 2019.

And I think it had, had it not happened since Elijah wandered. And Elijah wandered it, Elijah

wandered it in a 94, and a dunk and, dunk and never want defensive player to give, believe it.

Tray, mama. Oh, there we have a how did we get you here? Jackson has the three guys who won.

And Jordan did it in 88. But he was the first one. Jordan Elijah wand in Yannis.

Is that the three times? There you go. But it might be four. I, I, I was put this way.

“I think it's going to be. I think it's going to be. So right now I would probably vote for Shay.”

But I would say that I, I do think that regardless of what Wemburg Yannis pitch was, I do think that voters are looking for a reason to vote for Wemby. And if the spurs passed the thunder, that could be a reason. How question is, okay, if they passed the thunder, because I think McMahon has said that maybe yesterday or yesterday or something of the, of the sort that if they passed the thunder is an easy choice, how close do the spurs have to get without surpassing them.

Like it's two games. Wow. Well, how about this? How about they tie and they have the tie work? They want to tie because then they win. That's just that then they pass them. Then they pass. Okay. I wonder if someone is, is okay, see backlash to some of the

great. Absolutely. No. You don't, I mean. Well, first off. This, this, we talked about this

with with curve recently, Slater. Like the procession of coaches coming into, it's like a right of past coming into Oklahoma City, playing them and then going in and grumbling about the officiating. It, like, it, it, it happens like twice a week for the last three months. Yeah, there's like six straight thunder games where we're at ESPN right in some form of newsers or Mike Brown

“makes a comments. Steve Kerr makes a comment. Jalen Brown makes a comment. Yeah. It's right. I think Chris”

Finch, Chris Finch, you know, he's part way to get sure. Yeah. The first fastest way to get Chris Finch in a bad mood is to, is to, is to have him talk about Oklahoma City in Files. Well, I, I, I will say this, and I'm what you Wendy, that a lot of this is okay, see back last. Usually when we get these close MVP votes is some sort of usually MVP is kind of also group think, because it's not quite group think, but I think in the space of us having these discussions all the time on podcast and TV shows,

you know, you wind up swung voters and everything, especially in the age of transparency, but usually the MVP vote is like controversial if it's close, like the Russell Westbrook MVP Austin on the table and say, if Russell Westbrook average 31 9 and 9, we would not have voted him MVP, we had an obsession with the number 10, and we cared about so much that he didn't the school. Yeah, I mean, that was such a narrative award. I voted for Russell Westbrook. Right.

And I was on, I covered the third team that the ramp was on. I went and covered the warriors with the ramp and I was in the middle of that storm that was in the way. It felt like he saved their franchises at the time and I have to admit that somewhat swayed my thought process of valuable because right, isn't that the whole thing of like value to a franchise? So it wasn't just the triple doubles. The triple doubles created the the created the story and you were closing you

were there. The rest of the 125 voters or whatever the hell it was, they were obsessed with the triple doubles. Oh, he's going to be the first one to do a sense of Oscar and then that created the narrative on top of the deranged stuff. And he in his team won 47 freaking games. We don't award MPPs to players who win 47 games and don't get out of the first round. I'm saying that to say, usually when it's close, you have two worthy MPPs. I think like the Steve Nash, she killed Neil 1 0 5 or Michael Jordan

Carl Malone in 97, even though Carl Malone was a fraudulent MPP. I think this one, however close it becomes a victor doesn't win it. It's going to be so close that it's going to be undeniable that he wins it next year and he doubles up and this becomes like the victor era. Secondarily,

we forgot about Nicola Yokech being still like this incredible freaking dude. I have it.

So in the most recent thing that I did for TV this week, I had Yokech third and Luke of fourth, which you know, people in the studio and in the building rolled their eyes on, he's like, really? He's out here. Well, I mean, Yokech has put up absolutely a job dropping numbers. He's still leading the league and in rebounds and assists. People are like, you know, they're like, you know, Luke of third and assists. In addition, leading a points. I go, yeah,

it gets his first. The last two games, Yokech has 37 assists and three turnovers. I think or two turn, something like that. But I don't like doing that. I don't like pushing somebody down.

“That's why I think I hate like saying that Jalen Brown is fifth on my ballot. Like that's saying”

your first team all in B.A. player. That's not that's a that's a that's a that's an ultimate compliment. I don't know, but yes, but I think it's a two-man race, you know, and I will sense I did go back and

that be the closest recent one. It wasn't really that close. It was like six in terms of first

place folks. It was like 67, 29 or something or 69, 27. It wasn't super close. The closest one of my career was the shack. Nash one. And I voted for now is young and stupid. Like, I don't I'm not like, you got it right. You got it right. You've just done to see Nash literally changed the entire NBA. We get MVP's correct. There's like I said, there's exceptions where we get a wrong since the media

“started voting in 1980. If you want to do trippy, I can name every MVP from 1980 to now. I won't”

bore you with that. I'm learning about your trivia prowess. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah, I'm just a weirdo in that way. But by and large, with maybe I would say over the 45 years that we've been doing this, if my math is correct, this may be three in my book that we've gotten wrong. Okay, this thing. National calm alone over Michael Jordan in 97. I was college. I can't be blind. Russell, what that was you can blame Jackie McMullin for a sports illustrator article where

calm alone said, I'll never win MVP, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and everybody feels simple. Jackie

McMullin, we call her the legend on this level. I get it. That is not her fault. It's also a good example of advocating for yourself and perhaps shift. No, no, that's not advocating for yourself. You're you're you're whining that, oh, I'm doing going to give it to my two different strategies of advocating, whining is one of them. I had three year old son. That's the way he had time to do that.

“No, I think the second calm alone MVP was in the strike short, or like I'll show it in 99,”

you, that actually could have went to a long, so morning or Tim Duncan. And then the rest of your in my book. But the Steven Nash MVP years, I know people want to say Kobe should have

won in those six once again, a team that won what 46 games got knocked on the first round,

Steven Nash. I have zero problems with how we've awarded things by and large over the past 45 years. So I remember I thought, you know, Kobe was probably the best player in the league in O'Vivo 6. Didn't win it. I mean, that was the dirt here, right? I mean, no, that was Nash. No, no, no, they're going to their one O seven. They're going to seven again. Kobe, Kobe 108, right? Yep. So I remember thinking that Kobe was probably the best player in O six O seven. He didn't win it because his team didn't do well. And

that was the year that the, the, the Mavericks won like 66 or something, right? Yeah, 67. Yeah. And I remember in 2007, eight, the year Kobe won it, I thought LeBron was actually the best player. Like, I thought Kobe should have won it in O seven, really. And LeBron probably should have won it in

“08. And then the Bron did it with an O nine. But I think the only vote that I regret”

is, and I've said this before is the vote that I cast in 2018. And I have to give, I have to go with, I have to acknowledge McMahon and hear because in 2018, the James Hard was the year James Hard won. He won it overwhelmingly. He had 85 votes and I think LeBron had 15 for first. I think it was only two, two guys that got first place votes. I can't remember. Dave was hard advocating for LeBron. That was the bronze last year in Cleveland. And the fourth seed, their defense was a joke all year.

LeBron played all 82 games and then had the greatest, in my view, probably the greatest playoff run of his career after that. They won, it was not dominant by the team right whatsoever. They won two seven game series. It was the year that he took out the game one game one of the finals is like well, the most. Yeah. 51 of the more legendary performance in a lot, which includes obviously the JR Smith moment. No that. Right. And LeBron punches the white board of fractures is knuckle.

That's also the year that he, the raptors were the number one seed and they spent the entire year, like focused on getting the high seed so that if they played LeBron again, they could get home court and the bronze swept them and game three, he hits that running bank shot at basically, I think there was a tenth of a second left. Basically, I had the buzzer to beat them. And I remember, I went to the raptor's locker room, like Kyle Lowry at a great year that year,

DeMarda Rosen at a great year, Wayne Casey won coach of the year. I remember going down to the raptor's locker room. I loved covering the raptors. I loved covering the raptors. Those, that was a great team. And I remember the absolute face, the stone faces on Messiah, Eugierian, Bobby Webster, their front office leaders, their faces. Dwayne Casey, I think probably new is getting fired. DeMarda Rosen did know he was getting traded. But if you'd have told me when I was down in

Larry O'Brien trophy. I'd have told you get out of my face, stop messing around. So things

can change fast in the NBA. But I voted for Harden that year. And he wanted going away. He'd

“been close several years. There was one time. I can't remember how close he was the year before.”

But I was doing radio in a New York radio station. I was actually in the station. And I was radio hit and it was late. There was probably about this time of year. He was a little bit later in April. And I went to the bathroom after the hit. And I'm in the bathroom and the producer sticks his head and he goes, Brian, are you there? And I go, yeah. And he goes, hey, there are more. He is along with us next. He heard you waiting for you. And he wants to debate you

about, whoever I said it wasn't Harden was my vote. And he's like, there are wants to debate you on the air about why it's Harden. How's that locker? Let me finish going to the bathroom. Advocating for yourself. Shocker. The year before that was the rush here. So then that, then the heart and the thing comes in. Okay. So I must have said I was, I did vote for us. So I must have

“argued for us. And he wanted to debate me on live radio. I remember that. But anyway, LeBron's 2018”

season might be his most remarkable year for a bunch of different reasons. And I regret not voting for. I've said this before. I regret not voting for LeBron in 2018. Even though, however, there's no way hard and was not winning. But I do regret that so. Well, you just said it. His team finished forth in a week Eastern conference. Right. Wasn't that also the year he was like really not trying defensively near the deadline as like a basically like go go change some stuff up type protest. I would argue

he wasn't trying offensively there. Basically, he reduced his, he went from playing at a level 10

to like a level 8. And you could never prove it. Although I don't think it was denied. You could never

prove it. But in it lasted for like seven to 10 days or maybe it was like maybe five or six games. But the calves knew. So the calves agreed to trade basically a third of their team. And they told the Bron they were trading Isaiah Thomas and LeBron like decided to re-engage. And he had this incredible game and he hit a game winner at the buzzer to beat the timber wolves. And I've talked about this before. Isaiah runs out to like chess bump him and LeBron already knowing that

Isaiah was going to be traded the next day. Like turned his body and like hit checked Isaiah and

“like they like but flying. He's like nope. Yeah, I am not high five five of you. I remember that”

make a sound. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that being part of like the reasoning for him not winning regular season after he was that chunk of that season that. And I, and I wish Mick Meneman was here because his argument then and I assume his argument now. And I mean like I've had to admit that I

the more I looked back on it, the more I recognized how incredible his 2018 season was.

I didn't appreciate it in the moment. But certainly it was you know his playoff friend was just insane. But Mick Meneman's point I hate to put words in his mouth but I think he said this publicly. So was that LeBron doing that was a way to force the calves into improving their roster and that that could be argued that since he couldn't ask for it and get them to trade. The reason they didn't want to trade anybody was because he hadn't signed an extension and they knew there was a chance

he was going to leave and Dan Gilbert didn't want to be left holding a roster that didn't have a future like happened the last time when he left. And so they were like well the we're not going to trade all bunch of guys but guess what they ended up doing that and their team did improve and they did make the finals. And you know Dave's argument was that what LeBron did actually help the calves improve and so while it it did maybe not be the most altruistic way of doing it it did help the

team. And therefore it should not be looked at it as a negative that it should actually been looked as you know sort of not you know mainstream leadership. That's the best he does today. I mean we're so far off the beat. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah when he's so last one when the last one because we're we're just we're just here. So if LeBron has for or you can make your number five and not to say that he should have

five but if you were to give him a fifth would it be 2018 or 2011. No 2018 because 2011

numbers I mean part of it was natural because coming to play with Wade and Bosch but his numbers

did backslide and Derek Rose was awesome and there were so many games that year where the bowls were could have gone either way and Derek Rose carried him home. Like it was kind of like Shay like how many maybe not as much as Shay because you know everything's a little bit more you know higher higher production these days but he had many many games where he was a different specie player at the end of these games. No once again I think we get it right. By the way

I didn't have a vote that year. I did not vote that year. Well I'd left Cleveland and I went to Miami and I was absolutely not established as a media member in Miami and I was not regarded as a national media person. I was covering the heat and you know there was established people in Miami and so I did not have a vote. So that year like you know I mean it's easy for me to say I

“I didn't have a vote so I didn't make a vote for LeBron or Derek but I think I remember feeling”

like Derek was the appropriate winner. Although you're right if you asked LeBron he should have won both years. He thinks he should win every year you know? Well he probably thinks he should have at least three or four more. That's insane. I'm sorry. Well I don't want to win it because because I towards his mouth and then next thing you know I don't get in trouble. Don't hear from anybody. Let's all board the governors. I think I think it's safe to say LeBron

believes he should have something more than four and I believe I believe 2011 he is indicated he thinks he should have won because of just the drama that he went through and also the year he went back to Cleveland in 2014-15. Well his numbers also backslid that year but what I think I'm not saying

“this is what LeBron thinks. Norma is saying this is what LeBron said. What I think is that”

LeBron felt that his role as basically putting the roster together he basically did the Kevin

love trade. He basically told the calves go get JR Smith and then he I think LeBron also felt he was basically partially coaching the team. That's part of the Westbrook thing we were talking earlier of like value to a franchise he had a lot of value to that franchise. I'm not looking to take decade old pot shots at David Blatt okay but like you know LeBron openly was admitting that he was changing plays and you know I wrote a book about this and many different ways that he

undermined Blatt which maybe he saw as he was coaching the team. He kind of thought I was helping put the team together I was helping coach the team you know what else am I supposed to be

“executive of the year coach of the year. I don't want to say I think David Griffin. I don't want to say”

I think David Griffin right a lot of maneuvering. All right Wendy quick thing wait quick thing while Blatt I promise you this is really quick did you ever notice whenever you had to talk the Blatt at a press conference you would say your name and he would say it back to you that was the weirdest thing ever you would say you know Vincent good will blah blah blah he'd say Vincent and no one on I buddy Nick Pradell would say Nick Pradell ESPN and he would say Nicholas

well he didn't say Nicholas he said Nick you dope he I don't maybe it's just trying to be friendly he's trying to be personally no he was not where he was not friendly at all he was oh he had been looking at this serial position with the media and I hope David is doing well that's all I have to say I hope he's doing well it was a tough situation for everybody involved there were there were good people on both sides is that okay all right there was a

bonus meeting yes I don't know if you heard more who collected podcast after this Adam Silver talked for 40 minutes about many things mostly expansion there'll be a lot of expansion talk in the coming months and years because it's going to be years but I do want to stay events that Adam Silver announcing that we're going to fix tanking and we're going to do it in the next six weeks I was I was like wow like we're holding a meeting in May and we

will fix it in May I was like wow that's that's amazing congratulations like congratulations on fixing

tanking good job like and a lot of people asking you about it today they want to talk about it all over ESPN they were like what did you think about Adam Silver said I'm like what's the plan

timeline was I don't know I thought that was actually one of the more surprising things I knew exceo and Vegas were getting expansion teams that was not a surprise him doing that Vince was the surprise to me it was funny it almost feels like because I wasn't I was in Boston so I wasn't able to see it but I read the transcripts it was his most like the strongest statement that he's made since banning Donald Sterling remember he stood on the on the days instead I am banning Donald

“Sterling and he paused and he was like for life that's what any was like that's what he read like”

full stop and the fact that he's going Adam never the thing about Adam Silver he never goes

out and makes statements like absolute statements like he doesn't make statements absolutely unless he knows he has the votes unless he knows for sure that something is coming somewhere because he doesn't want to be he's a politician doesn't want to back himself into a corner so the fact that he is saying this and he said some stuff that's Sloan Sloan conference in Boston a few weeks ago that indicated some of the same things I think he does have a plan I'm curious of what the plan is I think he's

going to go full radical I don't know what exactly means but whether it is something like point differential because when you look at some of the scores on a night tonight basis you can't stop a

team from not playing there guys but if you disincentivize them losing by 30 to prove a point

and maybe you tie lottery odds to point differential or my idea which is you set the lottery odds at the 35 game mark so that everything that happens after that doesn't matter like you can't tank your way into a better lottery position in February March and April like I think I don't know if he's going to be that but I presented that suggestion to him and close quarters before and he was in necessarily he might best want necessarily like hey that's a bad idea you know what I mean like that's

sort of thing so I think he's going to do something strong here there's there's been like 80 different ideas he's probably going to do a handful of them right I don't think it's just going to be one little one I think they're going to try to tweak the rules in several ways we'll see which ones he lands on which the Brian's point will you know we could probably judge the plan once it's laid out but I do think the timeline that he kind of mentioned is important where he said mid bay you know

teams need to make trades around the draft teams need to make big decisions in the late July or late

“June early July and you need to know the rules when you're making big moves right you need to know”

what type of like you know draft pick situation you have so I do think you know learning the plan soon as soon as possible will be important to the plotting of these front offices who may want to try to future picks in blah blah blah you know moving forward yeah I mean it's really really hard to really know what to say until I see it and I'm you know the thing about it is it's like over the last few months whenever somebody has said here's my 11 point plan for tanking I've kept

scrolling or I've closed the window I'm not interested in reading everyone's plan I'm not saying that there plans aren't great I'm not saying that they're not smart people what we can say Brian is that something is going to change I think yeah that is that is absolutely that's do you have we just know you have a suggestion Wendy do you have a a big brain windy thought he I can do it in one sentence I don't need an 11 point plan I can't I can't I can't tell you how he's going to do

but I can tell you what to do in one sentence what's that incentivized winning instead of losing the end I was in the words of in the words of Kanye West and the Kobe Bryant commercial what the emphasis that mean Brian win horse yeah you talk about people that call you by their name isn't that what Kanye does he calls people by his first last name make it less beneficial

“loose that's what she's talking it means that does this mean Oklahoma City could get the first pick”

some if you're saying incentivized winning are you saying put everybody in the draft lottery

no I don't think so no that's not going to happen that's not realistic you know the most important

thing when you when you consider this is it and this is why I always say to people like over the decades when people have like pitched me like this is my idea for fewer games this is my idea for you know three game series in the first round this is my idea for this distance I go remember I don't care if it's the greatest idea and the history of mankind you got to have 23 owners say yes any big thing like this you need three quarters so it can't be a vote that seven

guys are going to say or eight guys or guys or women are going to say no to so you know that's it but really the thing about it is is that the teams are just doing what they're incentivized to do

going to have to make a structure where they're incentivized to win you know this was a full

“tanking segment by Ryan Wenthorse I believe we were on the podcast or declared that he this”

would never have and I've pretty much stuck to it I mean to a degree you were like Adam

nothing this is it and I think Jackson give a ruling here I've pretty much stayed away from talking about I think I did better than I thought I would do I'll put it that way but this but this was you know news worry I I said I wasn't sure about the actual like analysis strategy and what you know going through the past week you know my one concern about Adam is that I think he's he's so online he pays so much attention to what the peanut gallery says that sometimes there's

like an over correction yes I don't know how you necessarily overcorrect this like maybe this is just me hoping like a pioneer sky thing that that he would consider you know something that I've said to him one of the minions in the league office over the over the years but I think the fact that he's

“spoken so strongly about it I think he has some big brain idea that he believes will pass I'm”

very curious what the hell it is because some teams are just bad some teams are just bad and they

they ain't taken they just bad because they bad well that's one thing that Adam said and I've heard teams and I'm not going to say which teams because I'm not looking to open this conversation but I've heard a team or two split the baby or split the hair between the differences between rebuilding and tanking that no no we're not tanking we're rebuilding those bastards over there are tanking that silver reference that in his talk yesterday look the team closest to me the team

right down the road the Sacramento Kings entered the season attempt to do at least you don't make the play and they had a bunch of veterans like they weren't tanking they weren't actively trying to have as bad a season as possible but they played themselves into a scenario where it was very obvious they weren't going to make the playoffs and by March it's like yeah demonstrableness who has a partially torn meniscus should probably get the surgeries aquivin who has a issue with

his hand could he play through it certainly but probably should get the surgery late in the year now as they're playing these big games where you know it's like even if they are not a tanking franchise and every time Doug Christie or you know Scott Perry is asking a public setting about it they're going to be very anti we're not trying to lose tonight and they have won some games they strategically probably shouldn't have still they're doing some type of tanking strategies because it's kind of

obviously should yet they would say hey we're not a tanking franchise we didn't attempt to tank this year

“well that's what I was going to say I guess I would have quit the Kings of that because they”

went through a streak recently where they won five out of eight games yes 65 a bit where big wins in some ways you would have and yes because they beat the jazz disaster disaster when they beat the men's disaster is when and by doing that they have now moved out of the bottom three and the bottom three have the same record the same not the same record but the bottom three have all the same odds so what you want to do is being the bottom three because bottom four are flat

no four is bottom four yeah oh are they in the bottom four the bottom three and if not five but you know there's been some wins lately where you know like the the wizards let me look the jazz yes okay which was something uh and the king well the wizards are safely in the zone um okay sack no no the top for the top it's still very good for the fourth but the top three have the have the same odds well one of the main things what like you know the

king were in pole position to be the worst team in the league and now Brian we were getting deep into a tank conversation but the king's we're in pole position for the worst check to release it against me and then they won six of 11 and they leap to you know whatever fourth or fifth in the problem with that is when you are the worst team in the league you do have the flat and lottery odds where you have the same odds as you know two three four but if you

don't get one of those top four lottery positions you have a guaranteed fifth pick and in this draft to if you have the worst record in the league at the end there you have a guaranteed top five pick where now a team like the kings could backside the six seven eight where you know if they had stayed a former course they could add a guarantee this is the last thing I'm gonna say it

but go ahead then what happens when the Milwaukee bucks get the first picked well then that's

they can you know what I mean nope they can't get it right is where we'll go we'll go to the end of the the best of the bucks can do is get the second thing that's when people will really stream conspiracy if the bucks get the first and the pelicans get the second so the bucks get the

gonna conspire to help Milwaukee no offense to Milwaukee but to to many of that would believe in the

“conspiracies more than any other sports fan like block ever if the bucks do get the first pick”

you're gonna look at two where there would be two stories of that number one wow the Atlanta Hawke to you know look awesome by the way in a huge win in Detroit last night have this rising young corps will then get hoop Darren Peterson you know AJ the band so whoever that'll be interesting and also man how are we gonna look at that Derek Queen trade for the pelicans if it's bad let me just this is the last thing I want to say on it and then I'm gonna end the podcast this is the last

10 games for the top teams in the lottery Indiana lost one in nine Brooklyn one in nine Washington one in nine Utah two in eight Dallas two in eight Memphis one in nine Sacramento five and five bro hey and by the way and they're in a full and health will position so yeah and like the

“rosin had like a full farm maybe they would maybe they will jump up maybe they will jump up”

finish the job yeah I was gonna I was gonna give you a warrior segment of like the dark times uh in San Francisco but we can one second push that will not this is gonna be dark times next week I'm sorry about Moses moving you know you know what sucks about that more than anything other not only the

fact that he obviously has his terrible injury but that he's a free agent no he's not always not he's got one

he's not no he's got he's these in year one of a three year 39 million oh my god that's a total brain fart you know that's better to take it back Jackson make don't make me sound stupid thank god he's signed that contract there you go I thought he's got his signed the extension that makes me feel better yeah it's it's personally is good for for Moses moody but you know when we when I'm be you know talking about these dark times for the worries they now have two players on their contract next season one

making 58 million one making 13.9 both of their starting wings are gonna be out I would say half to a majority of the season and next season is like you know this huge like you know can they have this final grass but the staff career and if they try to rearrange the roster and it's just that's that's part of the story that is developing within the season and again we don't need to get no another segment on Steph's knee injury although that is a very important thing like where is his

you know later stages of his career going but this really disastrous turn in their season is really starting to impact next season in a bad way I know that this will provide absolutely no solace but I'm gonna say it anyway this is why when your team is able to through great management great players with great fortune go to six finals in a decade actually what was it six finals in

“eight years or nine years yeah five straight right um you have to cherish that incredible run”

because the the amount of things that have to go your way to do that is that's what I'm saying like

this is why I think LeBron the Bronco and eight finals in a row is just absolutely incredible

in this day and age um Jackson's final comment on the matter if the podcast is a car we have to understand that a metaphor sometimes the road of storylines have forced us through some tanking states but we try to avoid them Jackson keep producing don't make content that's what I would say Jackson actually is just over the moon you want to know why because the jury max remember yeah they stayed in the family oh in the jury max that number for

him too yeah he's he's he's he's so excited he's already cleared next year he will not be available on this date he will be at the Syracuse final four okay or I mean sweet 16 they'll be at least a sweet 16 not the final it's not that what's not big for them too it's not good read it was um he says we'll do a live five in Syracuse all right can of that this point listen my guy in Syracuse Alex Klein the GM got fired so that was my connection Syracuse I don't know anybody else from

Syracuse I know none of them nobody else I've ever met has ever been in Syracuse never never

um all right thank you so much to Vince thank you so much to Slater thank you much to Slater's back yard thank you to Jackson Tucker and our other producers thank you for listening and watching the hoop collective we'll talk to you next week

points like Mrs. by one tab will still pay it out as a winner now that's something to shout

about

“we're on only applies to selected player points markets leg must miss by one point other legs in”

multi and same game multi bits must also win for bet to be a winner what are you really gambling

with for free and confidential support visit gambling help online dot org dot are you