LeBron’s Best Free Agency Landing Spots + Reaction To Blockbuster Kawhi Trade

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Abgarba is 31 years old. What?! I don't want to talk about it with you, Steuja. Oh, yeah. Hello, welcome to the Who-Collective podcast.

We talked about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday evening.

Here, actually it's almost Wednesday morning, but the NBA New League year is open.

It's almost July out here in LA, which is where our man-front office insider Bobby Marx is with me. Hello, Brian. I am literally a baseball throwaway. I don't know if you got to get through to Wall, but I'm in the vicinity.

Yeah, you're in the old Sports Center Studio. We don't do sports in LA anymore, but there's the old studio still there. I feel the stand verret and vibes coming through. Yeah, the color. We just feel it.

Yeah, yeah, this is where we are. Yep. All right, joining us from Dallas, Texas is Ban McMan. How do you eat partners? I feel like we might need a little windy sleep update.

How are you doing on that? Well, I mean, Bobby and I are both. Well, I'll say this, windy got a break today on the show tonight, because we got Richard Roll, one Richard rolled in and he had Perk and will Shump was kind of taking a back sea.

Brian had like a 45 minute break from talking door. And I was on the news and sees on air. All right, okay, so we had a minor news day today. Why have the A standards, you may have heard the bronjames has decided that he, I really think it's a mutual decision, really.

I'm calling it a conscious uncoupling, but, you know, he is decided he is going to move on from the Lakers and the Lakers prepared to move on from him. And for the moment, it's not acrimonious. We'll see if it remains that way going forward. But there's too much going forward to pay attention to.

So we'll deal with that if it gets to this point and things are moving on.

“And so I think the, the two big things that, that came to light were that number one,”

the bronj continues to want to play. Now, I was just very cautious because I hadn't heard that until today. And it was explained to me that LeBron does want to play. And also, and again, this is this sounds basic, but I, I feel like I need to articulate it.

He wants to play in a very competitive team. He wants to play meaningful basketball. And the money is not the number one importance. His basketball happiness is, you know, because, you know, he's going to be moving away from his family on some level.

So maybe not total happiness, which is how we were referring to it earlier, but basketball happiness. So Bobby, that's code for, I'll play for less than the max and even less than a very large amount of money. I don't know yet if that means he'll play for the minimum or if he's going to want

an exception, but it brings for the first time of all the LeBron's reagencies of which there's now been four significant ones. This is a fourth one. It's the first time that you haven't had to plan for cap space for one to two years leading up.

And that we have a whole bunch of teams that can go after him now. And that is why this situation is both intriguing and different than the past. Well, and I think what's intriguing. Yeah, right. I mean, teams aren't going to have to go through hoops to try to clear out room to go

go sign them and everything.

“I think what's intriguing is that he really is, although he's the best for agent out there.”

He's kind of not really holding up free agency because he's, we kind of know what these teams have to offer, whether it be Golden State or Cleveland, Miami might have moved a little

bit of money if he wants to go for $6 million there.

But they're all kind of on equal points. But now that doesn't mean those teams don't have to go out and upgrade their roster or maybe try to add pieces to that to make it maybe a little bit more appealing. I think each potentially could do that. But we were talking about today, like I all three make a compelling case.

They're all different, right, with Curry and in Dramon and Butler eventually getting back and in the Cleveland situation with basically the whole team and then Yonneson and Baman. And Miami and it's, you would like to say, go East, young man, but man, the East has gotten better. Like, you know, like, and I know that that did too big and Tim will talk about the two, uh,

Santone and okay, see you there, you know, crem de la creme, but we're quiet in the East now in New York and Indiana will be better and stuff. All these other teams, the East has certainly gotten better here. Yeah, and look, Detroit's got a chance to get better. They're going to have to figure out a way to do it.

I still think if it's just about maximizing a chance to win a championship, then he's

“going back home, right, then I think that the Cavaliers would have the best chance.”

If James Harden becomes their fourth best player, um, that's me is, is their best chance. It's also the best storybook ending.

If this is indeed the last year to go back for a third time, you know, the place obviously

where it all started, where he delivered the first championship and what fit to whatever years and the city's pro sports history, um, that's the storybook ending. You know, Miami's intriguing that return, um, alongside, you know, obviously bam with a team you know, say ties, bow, uh, reunion there, you know, when, you know, you, you talked on TV today about how they bond to turn the team, you know, say stuff.

And then look, if it's about money, you go to Golden State where they can, they can put together the, uh, the full mid level. And it's, it's an awfully intriguing thing, uh, to see LeBron and Steph kind of in the twilight together, it would be really weird to see the Warriors uniform though. You know, I got to say, um, when I did some clear media today, like, you know, their radio

people were, they, they were, they felt a certain way about it.

And I think they sort of represent a way a lot of fans felt and I'm in shock too. Yeah. Shump did not like this. Shump did not like the idea. These are the guy went to, to battle against the Warriors in, in three of the finals.

He was that he did not like the idea of seeing LeBron in the Warriors uniform. Um, I'm not sure that that's going to really figure into the calculus, um, but I agree

“with you, Bob, I think an important point to put out here is that, you know, because LeBron”

is probably taking an exception, even if it's the minimum exception, he can sit here and wait and watch. He's not, he's not going to slow freeze and see down. He's not going to slow a team's business down. Um, and, you know, he's, it sounds like he's going to take some meetings and whether

it's him or it's just rich Paul taking the meetings. And these meetings he's going to take, it's, you know, yeah, he's going to want to hear what the team's plan is, but he's, he doesn't need to see their, their practice facility. He doesn't need to, you know, necessarily, um, hear about, uh, you know, their plans for like their, their long-term plans or whatever, like the binder that Luke got last year.

He wants to know potentially who's going to be on the team now this year, this minute. And that's where I think this is going to get interesting, McMahon. For the time being, and, you know, we have, I'm afraid to say, I feel like we're going to have multiple podcasts with LeBron's for agency. I think it's going to, I think it's, I think it's, I hope it's fast, but I'm afraid it's

going to be slow. If other teams present themselves, we can take a look at it, but let's just focus on the three teams we're working on right now, which is Cleveland, Golden State and Miami. You tell me if you think I'm wrong here. I feel like these teams have to do something with their roster to sweeten the pot for LeBron,

to say, they can't do with money, they got, they got to differentiate with them with themselves.

Okay, first of all, you know, there was the decision back in the day.

I've got a TV idea, two or 29, a four week series where I figured it can hit both in New York and one day, a four week series where the Brown visits all 29 of the other teams in the league. I'll be, I'll be divorced if that happens, but yeah, right, I, so you threw out a potential Jaylam Brown to Cleveland deal it for that reason, like as the hey, take that swing, get

Jaylam Brown will battle open up LeBron's eyes, but to me, if you're giving up Evan Mobley in that deal, are you getting better if you're the Galators? Let's talk about that.

“So my point here is that if you're Cleveland, what you should consider is some sort of”

significant roster move to, to, to, to, to, sweeten the pot for LeBron. Now, yeah, Jaylam Brown is out there, and, and, and, and my point is, the calves could have offered Evan Mobley for, you know, Santa Coupaud. They didn't go that direction. I think largely because Yannis did not have Cleveland on his list for a place to see what

extent they could have offered Evan Mobley for Jaylam Brown yesterday, right, like, and I think the, the Celtics would have significant interest there. And apparently the calves don't like the idea of Evan Mobley for Yannis, and they don't like the idea of Evan Mobley for, for Jaylam. Otherwise, they probably would have, for, seriously pursued that.

But what if it's Evan Mobley for Jaylam Brown and LeBron Jans?

for the next decade for a 42 year old that would be a, a one, a one season reunion.

“That's not unreasonable. I'm certainly not saying that's the only way to go.”

But I'm saying that my feel is that just saying, boy, look how great our team is. Come on LeBron, you're going to elevate us. I'm not sure that's going to get you what you're looking for. Well, and, and Bob, I'm curious, like, what could the warriors do? They've brought back Porzinga's, you know, Dreyman's going to be back and he's leaving

the financial wiggle room to kind of try to figure things out here. You know, you hope, Jimmy's back mid-season like what? What else could the warriors realistically do to kind of try to sweeten the pot here? You know, it's interesting, and I don't think they're going to move them, but, you know, the Porzinga's extension came in at that two years and there's no, it's a tradable contract.

Usually when you're trying to extension gets six months restriction because, but how they

structured it, he can be moved. The second year is only five million guaranteed in it.

So it's, yeah, just so you just to be clear, he can be moved now. Yeah, it's interesting. So it's very unusual for most players when you sign in the summer, you can't be moved till December and sometimes you can't even be moved till January. But the dynamics of the deal plus that they signed it in the last league year, Bobby, Chris, that's Porzinga's could be traded today. Now, Mark Spears came out and said and reported today that the,

with the wizards have made it, let it be known that Anthony Davis is not available at any price. Oh, sure, buddy. And that's two unprotected in a swap in a, something else down for you. Well, the issue is, you know, you'd have to, you know, the idea was yesterday, and this is the thing, like people were like, well, on so-and-so, you, you know, you said, so-and-so couldn't

be traded. I'm like, well, on Monday, they couldn't be. On Monday, though, the, the warriors

didn't have Chris F. Porzinga's on a $20 million contract, they could be traded. On Tuesday,

they do. On Monday, they had to trade Jimmy Butler for, for, as the core piece for every Anthony Davis. On Tuesday, they have Chris F. Porzinga's. Now, I'm not saying they're going to do that. But, um, I'm just saying two things here. Number one, there's only one untouchable player on the wizards roster. And that's AJ DeBanza. That's just start right there. But I understand, they're trying to build a team there. They want Anthony Davis. I'm not

trying to antagonize them. Do they want them bad enough to put an extension on the table? That's Rich Paul's question I can assure you. Okay. I'm just saying, like, like, do I actually think that the calves are going to trade for Jalen Brown? I don't think that's going to happen.

“However, my point is is that if you want to appeal yourself to the Bronze James, you need”

to look for ways to do something to your roster. And the calves lost two players tonight.

Key on Ellis signed a two year 18 million dollar deal with the Brooklyn nets. And Dean

Wade signed a four year deal for 39 million, although I've seen reporting. I can't. I don't know who to give credit to for this aspect that the last year isn't guaranteed. But they lost two players tonight. Now, I'm not saying the bronze can be like, Oh, my God, they lost Dean Wade. I can't, I can't go there. The calves have Jalen Tyson that they're going to try to give some more playing top. And the calves could have probably traded Max Druce and kept those two

guys. But I think they intend to keep, at least for now. I mean, everything with the calves a little bit in the flux. But I think they intend to keep Max Druce so that they, they lose those two guys. But my point is is that if you want to do something to appeal to the Bronze, you're not going to do it with a, with a PowerPoint presentation or a presentation on the scoreboard. You're going to do it with what you do with your roster. And so, and so if you have poisengus and work if you have,

you know, something with just, that's just interesting. Now, the heat don't really have that Bobby, but they have Janice that they got. That's their move is Janice. And the other thing that's interesting, though, like, because Dreyman Green opted out of his contract, the warriors have some flexibility with what they can do. But because James Harden opted out of his contract,

“the calves have some flexibility of what they could do. In a hardened case, I think his guaranteed”

money that he's going to do is going to be what it is. But the Harden potentially could take it and stretch it out over an extra year to get to maneuver the money a little bit. So there's a lot of balls in the air here, Bobby. Well, I mean, I think when you take a case by case, example, and we start with what go on stage, it's like how much if they're not going to trade Jimmy Butler, which is really their biggest trade asset, right? When you look at it and they've got,

I guess two and a half picks at first trade because one of them is top 20 protected. Yeah, top 20 protect. That's the one that goes down. It's from the AD trade. What do you have available

we put their line up up today. And I'm looking at it. And I was like, I put Jimmy in there with a

brown. I'm like, this looks good, right? But that's probably not until February. I would think or maybe January. And if for the warriors, like the idea of trading picks that will be post-steth,

“I don't know if that's a business you want to get into. The idea and that's why I like the AD thing to”

me was just insane because not only would it require some kind of post-steth draft compensation, but you're going to take on the AD wants an extension challenge. And what are you going to are you going to commit massive salary to AD when steps, you know, playing golf full-time? That doesn't say. Very wise. Right. A bronze play golf full-time right now. Although I will say,

I think if you start playing golf because it's amazing like how this is his second summer where

he's really into it. And he's really into it right now. But yeah, people were joking that, you know, last summer he started showing videos and he came up with a sciatica and I'm like, oh my god, he's playing golf and he's got an old man injury. It was interesting because the bronze, like this is part of how LeBron does passive aggressive stuff sometimes. But like, I don't know if you saw, but he posted a video of him working out like at five or six AM at his home

gym today and he is like, totally ripped. He might be the most in shape 41 year old in the country, but like he posted it just in case people thought he was getting soft playing golf.

And they're going. Right. Exactly. But like on the, I mean, he probably knew that this was

happening today that he was going to become this free agent today and like just in case anybody thought he might have been going soft. He was like, by the way, just wanted to show you a topless shot in the mirror in case you think, um, case you think I've gotten soft in the, and they're off season. But, um, yeah, I'm afraid we're got to settle in Bobby and, and I, and I just think there's more cards to play for teams. Um, the one team that I, like, I, the one

“team that I'm just going to point out that I think is interesting. Some people have mentioned”

Minnesota and I certainly think the idea of playing with that, who is this, uh, a, um, team USA teammate. It's an interesting idea. Um, I have long thought and I refused to bring it up because I just didn't want the, uh, the headache during the year of having to defend this. But I have long believed that if there was an outlier team for LeBron, if he was willing to take sort of, you know, some exception, uh, was Denver. Yeah. Um, because the idea of playing, and like if you

noticed during the year this year, he was overly, a few, so with, with Yokech. I would be the two, maybe the two most brilliant basketball minds in the league, joining forces and their complimentary, where him and Luka was kind of a, who's got the ball in his hands, like, Joker's all about having a guy who he, you know, he can run picking roll either way. You know, can cut off them, all those kind of things. Also, let's just be honest, if the bronze play him with Ant la Mellow

for a year, like that, there's a lot of gray in that beard now. It is Santa Claus by Christmas. Yeah. Like, he played with Rondo. La Mellow Rondo. So, I'll just point out that he has a relationship

“with Josh Cronkey, the Cronkey family, the owners of the, of the nuggets. He, I believe, was a guest”

a couple of times on their yachts in the Mediterranean in the summer. Before LeBron was focused on only playing golf in the summer, he used to go, like, be on a boat like the Magic Johnson Bobby, where he went on a boat for, like, a week to 10 days. I'd sign up for that. Yeah. Well, that was where the banana boat came from. That was, that was in the Caribbean. But this one was, uh, I think was in the Mediterranean. And so he has some, you know, connection there. And so I, I don't know,

like, I, I think I probably even said too many words about it even now. But like, if I were Denver, I would kick the tires. Well, and as you mentioned, he doesn't have to see the practice facility. That's a good thing in Denver's case, because it's just wonderful. You're right there, right? Still, it's one of the few, few that's still in that arena. I will say also the people are saying, well, you know, uh, Dreyman Green, you know, Mike, you're taking care of in, in Golden State,

with a little clutch connection and Anthony Davis clutch connection. I'd like to point out that the Peyton Watson, the Denver nuggets restricted free agent, also a clutch climb. Um, um, so just, you know, not that I think, you know, he has anywhere near the level of good relationship with Peewat that he does. Well, there's other guys. I just think I should put it on the, on the record. But more LeBron James speculation reporting and drama. I'm sure to come in the coming days. And I'm afraid to say,

maybe coming weeks, more who collect it podcast after this. Okay. That's one side of it. How about the

level, the fence for a couple of months here. They have the enter of free agency having locked up

Austin Reeves on a max deal. They have 52ish million dollars. Um, as we're recording this pod,

“they haven't used any of it yet, although I think they've got a couple of free agent role players”

that they're lining up. Um, we know that they had meetings playing with Jalen during a Walker Kessler. But the restricted game is a, is a brutal game, as you've been talking about on TV today. Oh, restricted free agency is like, you know, it's like, it's like arbitration, right? You go in front of somebody and they tell you why that all of your, all your flaws. And they say, basically, you go get a go get an offer sheet from somebody out there. And when you look at

Dern and Kessler and even Payton Watson, it's probably a little bit different. Like, you know, the two centers, um, you know, we've talked about the Lakers with them. And it's like, do you really want to tie up all your money for seven days and then come July 7th at midnight, be like, oh, everybody's off the board. You know, all the free agents are kind of are kind of off

“the board and everything like that. And I do think I think the Lakers were at we almost had to draw”

line and the sand sometime today, probably in the afternoon, like if even if looked with LeBron, like, this is where we are, we're just going to go in a different direction. If we don't have

an answer from you, as far as what we want to do here. But $52 million in this day and age doesn't

get you much. I mean, it gets you three guys. It probably gets you three three role players, I would think, with that group. And I think, I think, I think, Tim, the center market you'd want to get down a trade somewhere and look, they got, they also have the, what is it that room exception of nine points for? So, the anticipation around the league is that they're going to be signing Quentin Grimes, and that they're going to be signing Sondro, Mamu Kellish Vili. Did I say that correctly?

You did. How about, how about this one on TV today, Tim? So we're doing, we're doing a touch screen of stuff like that and, and Hannah's like, what player are you think they're going to sign? And I said, oh shit, am I going to, am I just going to say, and I said it's a richer. I said, you know, Hannah, I'm going to let richer say this one's name. And he's like, I can't see the name, and I said, oh, I'm going to have to say it, aren't I? So I tried to say it, I tried to say it on TV today,

and I did Sondro Mamu. I said, Mamu. I know, yeah, you did punt on it, and I listen, I'm like, I couldn't get it out. So I'm proud I got it. Anyways, the anticipation is Quentin Grimes, Mamu, Luke can already out the door. He took the, uh, little taxpayer middle-level from Phoenix, and then the anticipation is that Marka Smart will be out the door likely to Houston. So you're talking about, you know, Mamu is a, he can play some five, but he's not, he's more of a

power forward. He can shoot it. You know, he's an interesting player. Grimes is obviously a three and de-ish type of guy can actually really, can shoot it. A little bit of experience playing alongside Luca. He was the second worst trade that Nico made that year. Um, that deadline. Kail Martin. By the way, anybody want Caleb Martin, give him a cycle. Anyway, so you mentioned the two bakes, right, the two restricted bakes. And like, I've, I've reported the Walker Kessler, the deal

on the table for him from the jazz is five years, roughly one four day. I think it's like 137.5,

“if you want to get technical. I believe that Detroit's offer to Durn is in that same range.”

This stuff about a Sacramento sign and trade, they're not taking back them on to supposed

it 90, some odd million over the next two years. Like, that's just, let me suppose this is a good

player, but he doesn't fit what they want and they don't have to accept a sign and trade. Correct. And, and so honestly, I, and then, as you mentioned, the right to to match. And so do you want to play that game of chicken and tie up your, you know, the vast majority of the Kessler. And here's a thing. Walker Kessler's reps at CA, believe that he's worth in the high 30s. They believe that should be the market form. They believe that is the market form. They, I mean, they, the golf between

the jazz and Walker Kessler is more than $50 million over a five year deal. So if you're the Lakers, maybe the jazz blank, if you put, you know, they can do four years. If you, if you put four years in 150 on the table, maybe the jazz blank, that number. Maybe not. Maybe you can try to work out a sign and trade, but then you're paying that kind of number and giving up probably one of your available first round picks. You know, I, I probably, we can discuss the same type of scenarios

these guys, how are you going to deliver on the top item on Lucas Wishlist, which is get me a damn legit big? They may not be able to do it in this transaction cycle. They may have to, they may have to make moves that set themselves up in this transaction cycle for making that move later. It may,

you know, like, you can't always get what you want. Well, and look, you know, we all know,

Cam Johnson is, is, is being shopped because the nuggets want to keep Peyton Watson, but don't want like a crazy tax bill. There could be worse things than using the junkyard cap space to bring our Cam Johnson. There's a quality player who would also be a human trade exceptional, like any other. Well, this is the story of the Indiana Paces a couple of years ago. Right Bobby, they had this cap space. They really couldn't find a comfortable spot. So they gave Bruce Brown, he had a great

year as a role player with the nuggets. They gave Bruce Brown a 20 million dollar contract. And as soon as they signed it, they knew they were going to trade them most likely. And they ended up trading him for Pascal Siakum, who was a cornerstone of them reaching the finals the following years. So I understand that Luca wants to send her right now. I understand the Lakers fans, specifically, you know, thinking that they've been looking forward to this cast space for a while.

And maybe it will happen, like maybe the Jazz will, you know, blink if there's an offer she'd put on Kestler. But you may have to do it in a couple of different stages. By the way, Bobby, you were saying today that there hasn't been an offer sheet that was given out that wasn't matched since 2020. And that was by a player, I guess, just signed a agreed to a deal in Houston, Bogdan Bogdanovich, Sean's reported probably one year, probably that minimum, I guess, there. He's a friend of the

pot. He's been on the pod before, Bobby. Well, and that was one of the crazier situations, because remember, wasn't it like, wasn't that with Saq and Milwaukee? And then was void at the league void at the deal? Yeah. Let me ask you a moment. Because this is a, this is a potential scenario here. I've, I'm told this is within the realm of possibility that Walker Kestler, if the Jazz don't budge, so it's fine. I'll play on the qualifying offer, which is seven point, what, one, one. Yeah.

“So, and I'll play on the qualifying offer and I'll leave 130 plus million guaranteed. I believe”

there'll be a robust market for an unrestricted free agent next summer and better myself. He just missed a whole season with injury, just for the point. Right. And and just look, there's MBA inflation on that, but this is the biggest contract in terms of total value ever offered to a big,

who's never been an all-star. Not saying he never will be, but he hadn't been yet.

When's the last time there was a scenario where a guy forget the number where a guy left a real large chunk of change on the table to take qualifying offer? It doesn't work out well. I mean, I went back and studied all these guys who signed a QO. Tim, the one that's like been once, case, Greg Monroe and go went from Detroit to Milwaukee, like all these guys, like you went through New Orleans in the well, right? I mean, like in Dallas, you think that because you've

become an unrestricted free agent, all of a sudden, this windfall of money is going to come your way. And it's basically, so like in the case of Castle, let's say it's starting numbers like 23, 24. All right. And he signed for seven. You're already in a whole 17 million. So now you're chasing

“that to the next year. I think the concern probably from the agent side is that they'll probably”

the length of the contract that you're locked in for five years. And remember, air immense did the jam green deal, right? Where it was a three-year deal with a with a player option and everything like that. And I think from Utah's perspective, it was like, wait a minute, we're committing so much money to mark it in in Jackson, Junior. You know, that's a pretty fair offer and everything. But I signed in a QL man. That comes with a significant risk with that. We went through this last year

Jonathan Kominga for months on that and it was, we're going to sign it, we're going to sign it, we're going to sign it. We're going to sign, I mean, you know, look, I'm not, I'm not involved in it. So I'm not going to claim anybody's bluffing or whatever. But it's a tail, it's a, you know, it's a tail is all this time. The restricted free agent stared out. And, you know, there's, you know, I will say this, Bobby, what if I told you that there was a actually a

“offer sheet and unmatched offer sheet in the NBA last year? There was, it was a Atlanta, I believe,”

it was a former, it was a two-way, it was a two-way. I know, I know, now when I say unmatched,

I say five million or plus. Similar numbers, if you just move, it totally screwed up like the

profit here, like we're that come from. It's similar numbers as long as you move the decimal points around. All right. Look, I'll throw out another scenario and this is spitball and this is just me,

picks and maybe even put, you know, put Texan or whatever in dangling front of Dallas and say, hey, we know you've been trying to move Daniel Gaffer, who look, there's, you know, the medical, there's some medical concerns there as well. But he's got proven chemistry with Luka. We know he can run pick and roll with Luka. Yeah, I know that, I mean, you know, you've been reporting that Luka has been, you know, requested an A level or elite. How is you? How have you been describing

you? Yeah, Miniman, Miniman actually had that, but yeah. I'm sorry. I don't, I can't be stealing Matt Ken's thunder now, you know that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. How is he described it again? An A-list

“center, I believe. An A-list sent a quote to you. So obviously Daniel Gaffer would not be an A-list”

center. However, he was the starting center when they went to the finals in Dallas. So I don't know if that qualifies. Here's another idea from the band McMahon auditioning for front office works, spitball and department. Hey, that should be a segment of the show. Strange things, Matt. Don't roll it out. How about this one? How about like I said, you know, like the cam, johnson or, you know,

something like that where you're basically getting the human trade exception. And you take that,

once it's eligible to be moved again and, you know, AD things ain't work out in Washington, you know, you put together a little package and AD back to LA to team up with the guy that he was traded for. That would be something. Hey, how many A-list centers are there? First of all, for being real, like it's a pretty short list. Is Walker Kessler an A-list center? He's going to be payed like one he hopes. Well, that's that may be true. By the way, it was down right and used to be. That's true.

Okay, so then the other big transaction that happened on Tuesday. The Raptors and Clipper is coming to an agreement to said, "Quay Leonard, back." I don't know if I could say this full circle, because Frol Circle would be back to where he started. Santa Antonio. I don't know if I could go. Yeah, I'm not sure how you would say. Really, Andy. It wasn't a really Andy, I don't think he had the idea and it did draft him. So... Shout out, George Hill. Yeah. So anyway, this situation

is, look, the, after everything, the clippers have been through, and let me first say that before

“they entered into this Toronto and the Clippers, I believe checked with the league office to make”

sure that there wouldn't be a hold-up based on the, on the F aspiration investigation. And you know, it is what it is. I wish I had more information about that. I don't. So let's, let me just put that out there. But Bobby, this trade, where two unprotected first and an unprotected pick swap, go to the lake, do the clippers, along with Brandon Ingram, who was an all star last year, am I right? Wasn't he, didn't he make the all star team? I believe he did. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't make the all play all

steam. Well, that's true. But this is the first trade that's happened this year where I think

a deck could actually affect who wins the Eastern Conference, right? A conference. Now, a lot of business has to be done. We're not, you know, I'm not saying that, but the, the raptors significantly changed the hand that they're holding with this one, Bobby. And the clippers doing this, well, we'll talk about the clippers in a little bit, but the clippers doing this is are, is a pretty big step for them. And it's a gigantic step for the raptors. Well, I mean, you,

you roll out a line up with your fores with barns and a Kauai RJ Barrett quickly pulled part of the kid they drafted last year. Murray Boyle's coming off your bench. I'm probably closing it

“five. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, I think Perkins said this on the show. He's like, yeah,”

when he was talking about Miami, he says, yeah, they're in the top six. And then I decided to jot in my notes down. And I was like, man, like, you New York, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Miami, Toronto, right? Like, you, you can go Indiana is going to be back in play. Like, you go pretty deep. And I think, I think, I think Bobby Webster, who's your GM kind of looked at it and was like, we're a nice team, right? Like, this is kind of who we are. But how do we kind of, you know, jumping

with, uh, with having gone through that year. Well, and, and look, Toronto was a good team last year.

A, a, a scrappy team that probably maximized its potential. But the, there's ceiling wasn't out high because they were an average offensive team that, you know, didn't have an elite half court creator. And they were a team that desperately needed a closer, a special company off time. And if there's been real, like, branding them has shrinkage tendencies in the playoffs. Quiet. Damn sure does not. Like, choise one of the great playoff performers when he's on the floor,

of this generation. And choise still, like, choise coming off his best offensive season. He is an

“awesome half court offensive player. I think you can make an argument that a healthy,”

quiet Scotty Barnes is the best tandem in the East. Um, you know, especially pinning what happens

in Boston. Um, you know, if the Celtics, if Jayden Brown still there is Celtics, I'm writing about whatever it's up. It's, it's damn sure high on on the list. The reward is like, look, there's ceiling is absolutely winning the East. And if you win the East, you're going at all. But there's a lot of risk here, too. For obviously, I'm in choise in his mid 30s. He's had major durability issues. There's going to be an extension. I highly doubt it's going to be a discount extension.

And you gave up the two picks here are unprotected and post-quiet. So, like, the clippers did pretty well on the return. Um, in terms of the draft capital, they did really well, I think. And again, like, I love the move for the Raptors. I, I really respect teams. It take big swings when they, you know, when it, you know, the timing makes sense. Um, but it is high risk, high reward. What do you think the extension is going to be? Well, that's one of the biggest things you're

going to do to to grade this is, um, you know, what they're going to do here. I, I mean, he's 35 Bobby. I mean, do you try to do try to use Katie's extension with Houston as a column? Was that two year? Was that two years eight, 90, 10? Yeah. Something like that. I would think, who I was probably going to want more than that. I do too. It could be wrong. He's eligible for two for one 24. It's a big number two for two for one 10. Give him two for one 10. Um, and, you know,

like, allow him to have a luxury suite of blue jays and organots and, uh, and what up with the, I'm not allowed to talk hockey, whatever the NHL team. For whatever the NHL team isn't Toronto, all right. Well, we're going to stick to that mandate, but, uh, geez. Uh, I may want to, you know, anyway, they've got, you know, Toronto has a, uh, a lot on their books, Bobby.

It's one of the reasons why they wanted to make a trade here, but look, at the ultimately,

depending on how this season goes is, is going to be what this is, um, um, um, this is, you know, this is a, you know, obviously, how it goes this year is a big indicator of what their how this trade will be looked. But the, the extensions will be, you essentially will be a factor in, and how this was. Look, I know like they're, they're reporting has been, I shams has been talking about how Kawaii wants to go there and retire and he wants to go back full circle and everything.

“He's going back to because of the money. I mean, I think, I think he likes the team. He certainly”

feels like they can win and he look at the eastern conference and, you know, the, it hasn't, you know, I knew, a new juggernaut hasn't presented itself. Um, you know, we'll see what Detroit does with its money, and we'll see what happens with Jalen Brown. But, you know, there are reasons you can select. And, of course, there is good feelings of what not, but he's going back there because they were willing to give them whatever they're going to give them. I mean, that's a huge factor.

But don't you think Detroit would have given them money, too? And Detroit? Detroit, you didn't say Detroit. He didn't say he wanted to go to Detroit. I, I'm just saying like that would have been a hell of a competitive situation, too. So I, you know, Detroit is watching its money spending. I mean, this is why Jalen Duran is, you know, snorting a little bit because they, you know, they weren't

“willing to give him what he wanted. I think they're, they're being protective of their books.”

Are they being protective of their books because they're trying to take a swing at a legitimate co-star to pair with Kate County Ham? Fair question. Fair follow-up. Yeah. I mean, look, if, if Jalen Duran performed Duran to play off like he did during the regular season, I think things would be going

little heavy here. You know, Toronto, you know, also, I think Detroit does have the control of their

picks, right? Bobbie going forward. Yeah, they got a moment. You know, sometimes you get a situation where one team doesn't have a, you know, can't offer draft picks. You know, like, for example, Even if Sacramento had a shot at getting during, they don't have the same capital to offer as other teams. In this case, both Toronto and Detroit

could have offered the same pick package. But Kawaii declared to Toronto. All right, definitely. By the way, the Raptors might not be done, Bobby. They could still work on this roster a little bit

if they wanted to. So we'll see. All right, so I know we had a lot of stuff go on today, but one thing I wanted to point out.

I'd like to take you a little back in time, guys.

I want to go back to December 18, 2025. On that night, the Clippers got blown out by the Thunder.

“You know, Columbus City, were you at that game, Macmillan?”

I don't believe so, but I cannot be certain at this exact moment. One way, that night, the Clippers lost their 10th game and they're last 11 at that point. To fall to 6 and 21, and you may recall that they had the oldest--

Bobby was at the oldest team in NBA history? Well, I call it most seasoned, you know. [LAUGHTER] Respect, that. But that was their load.

They were old. Yeah. They were old. At CP3. Yes, he was gone.

OK. CP3 was-- the CP3 was in Miami. Remember they had it? That was a sign of the road trip. I do recall, yes.

“It was a part of that, it was a part of that stretch.”

OK. So, 6 and 21. 6 and 21, but the oldest team in the league. And now, let's fast forward here seven months later. And Bobby, look, you can't deconstructing a team.

Anybody can deconstruct a team. It's the building up of the team that's the hard part. But I just want to pause, you know, in the wake of everything else here. And note, the maneuvers, the Clippers, are making. And there's an asterisk out there at the aspiration.

And I don't know what's going to happen, et cetera. But Bobby, if you look at what the Clippers have done in these last seven months, it's been a pretty interesting, aggressive, and potentially fruitful franchise pivot that's sort of culminated with Kauai today. Well, you're right.

I mean, it started, certainly, with the hardened trade for Garland and then they do Zubaj for the two ones that turns into the fifth pick with Keet and Magler. And then they do Hara Kauai to Toronto for greedy dick, bringing room to two unprotected first. There's a pick swap in there, too, in a couple seconds.

There's someone who, I don't know if he's you, Wendy, but someone said they got all their picks back from the Paul George trade for not quite. There's still Mrs. Shea. So, we'll see if there's a jam in Williams.

“So, yeah, so they've, like, I think the hardest thing when you're, when you're building”

rosters is like pivoting, because you always want to just like, keep the course, keep

the course, keep the course. And when you pivot sometimes, when they let Paul go, and now it's with, with Kauai, they have basically seeing the, like, the youth movement is, is coming here. They've got a ton of flexibility this year in moving forward. So I give them credit as far as, like, you weren't going to extend Kauai, like, that was

the big thing. Right. Well, I mean, like, they picked up three unprotected first round picks that they still haven't used. Plus the number five pick in this draft, plus area of Scarland, plus they've got $20 million

in salary cap flexibility. And I don't know what they're going to do with Ben Madarin, but, like, I agree, they're not going to the finals, but in Brandon Ingraham is a year away from being an expiring contract, where, you know, there's going to be some, some potential flexibility with that as well.

And they've done all this despite the fact that they still owe swap next year to, to OKC now Toronto's involved, so they won't fall quite as far in that swap. They owe 28 unprotected fill in, they owe a 29 swap that fill in. So they're not, they're holding tight to their pride saying, oh, my gosh, we have to minimize the damage.

Okay, man, swing and a miss of the quiet era, and they kind of admitted that when they let Paul George go, how do we try to build something real in the next chapter of franchise history? And it wasn't clinging to hope it was, you know, clear they started moving on and creating all this flexibility and kind of reloading with some draft ammo.

Yeah. So I just think, you know, and they're not done, Bobby, I mean, no, I mean, they could

They have the type of money, I think available, especially if they decide to move on from

matter and like they could sign matter, but they could move on from him and then open up even more space.

“I think they would approach 30 million in space if they did that, you know, they may”

not be done with moves to try to, you know, retrofit their team. No, they can pull the matter and qualify off for up until July 13th without his permission. And if they really want to put the screws to the Denver nuggets, you go pop down a big offer sheet on Peyton Watson and see what see if they match or are not here because that is certainly a Denver team that's got some financial woes that are coming their way.

So Denver has led everybody know that they're not worried about Nikola Yokech at all, which, you know, Yokech is on the record as saying he wants to be a nugget for life, etc. But Bobby, if Yokech doesn't extend, I think you could see teams, you know, start to think about 2027. I'm low of to say that because I don't really think it's going to happen, but I've had

several teams mentioned this to me in the last couple of days. Well, it's interesting and Tim, though, this is that a year ago, he didn't extend because it was a financial decision, right, because he could have waited this year to add another year, and then this year, if he doesn't extend, it'll probably be financial decision also, because he can add another year of like $80 million here, which I totally respect, right,

maximize your earnings, this is probably his last big, really big bite of the, but he Apple, but man, if you're in that front office, there are some, he can be, yeah, he can be a free agent next to you. Yeah, some, you know, I mean, how rare is it for a top two top three player to hit unrestricted

free agency? Like, that is a rare, everybody extends and you never, they never get to

“free agency, but that would be a little bit uneasy, even if you're saying in which I believe”

him, it's, it's financially driven. Well, and, and look, I get it, and if they get bounce in the first round again this year, you get more uneasy and it's going to be really hard for like, are the nuggets going to get better as they're looking for ways to, like if they're going to sign Peyton Watson, they're almost certainly losing neither Cam John's and a Christian Brown, they're looking

for, you know, a place to get off of those deals, they, they just lost him, Artaway Jr. who was a very good for them in that sixth man role, you know, he got basically, I don't know, whatever the race was. He got more from Miami than the nuggets were going to give them, you know, we'll see about Spencer Jones who, you know, like, it's, it's going to be hard for them to even

be, I think, as good from a roster standpoint as they were last year and much less get better. Well, one more note on the clippers, they did make a signing today, Bobby, do you remember who they signed today? I do.

I do. Kobe Sanders. Oh, Kobe Sanders. Four years, 11 million. You know, let's do an, an interesting on, on the clippers, and we were talking about this a

little bit. I mean, really more Toronto is that you would think they would put, they would put a call into the legal office, right, to just say, hey, we're going to trade for this guy. We just want to, just want to make sure nothing, there's not going to be any, you know, ramifications here.

I did check on that and, um, it seems like the league background work do diligence, I guess is the term. Yes. Do diligence about whether or not the league would block a coi trade has was done before doing it.

Who, um, is the NBA's Board of Governors Chairman? It was Larry Tannenbaum, the governor of the Raptors, but he is outgoing. Okay. I love the Raptors. Um, he's probably got a pretty direct line to Adam silver when you think.

That's true. He is, by the way, selling his shares and soon to leave the chairman ship, he's, he's, he's the owner of the Toronto tempo of the WNBA, so that's when he was told this.

“He also, I believe, is bidding on an NBA Europe franchise for information that you”

weren't asking for as you made your point. Your implication, that is that you think that the, the chairman of the NBA's ownership owners would know whether or not there is a, I don't know. Supposedly, this is a law firm, do it completely independent investigation, Mr. McMatter. Sure.

Sure. But it's going to be Adam silver ultimately making the decision. Well, also, if you really want to go down the conspiracy theory, hold a team that was, you know, theoretically harmed by coi's, you know, free agency, whatever has been alleged was the raptors and so coi's back with the raptors.

So, you know, the irony too real quick is that, and he's not going to get it because that raptors hardcap situation is that, uh, clippers would owe him about this trade bonus,

like seven and a half million.

I was like, a gallon away present. I mean, but Toronto can't do it because they're so, they're really close to that. Like, could you, like, that is just fitting, right? For some, it's transpired. Hey, there was a big announcement the NBA today, McMand.

The NBA Cup is moving out of Las Vegas after two glorious years and into the site of

The movie Hoosiers, Hankle Fieldhouse and Indianapolis.

Yeah, I mean, Oscar Robertson, one a couple of, uh, state championships there.

“I honestly played like crap and pickup that I, I do think I abused Jackson though, but”

that's like a pretty low bar. Bond Tim's played. I didn't play against him, but I, I told you boys just before Bond Tim's hoops, like he podcast, which means he talks a lot and should be very little. But we seem to have found a mute button for him, which has been, uh, a place I thought

like he was coming over and guarding someone else's man, like he was, he was assigned to guard this guy and he came over and, you know, started in a rough position like you're on plays. Yeah. There we go.

I actually, I love this though, because when you heard like the college, uh, venues, like, okay,

like, are there, like, logistically, how's it going to work if it's like, uh, camin and indoor. Yeah, camin and door. We know. I mean, Adam Silver was a, is a Duke guy, so that, that, that's certainly on the

short list. I wouldn't be surprised if camin indoor gets in the rotation. I hear you, but, but Indie is obviously a city that's accustomed to hosting big events and it is a really cool arena. It's only what it's only like 9100 seats.

Yeah, it's going to be premium city. Of course, some of those semi-final games and they're early NBA Cup. Well, and this is just the one, oh, it's only a chance. Just the championship.

“Yeah, this is my finals are now at, uh, at Home Arena, which I think is also, uh, a good”

development. Well, the NBA is, I believe, going to be expanding the Las Vegas pretty soon. So the next got to defend that NBA Cup, you know, they should prepare to scout out the Hinklefield house as they need to be suspended. They should be suspended.

They should be suspended to help play it for not raising the ribbon. Wow. It's my, we have, we haven't seen the banner yet, perhaps they will add something to the banner. They just pin on the little ribbon.

Yeah, you think it'll be denoted on the ring, on the championship ring. You'll like, you like, engraved on the inside, like, in microscopically, NBA Cup champs 25. All right.

Well, the first day of NBA Freed to see us over, uh, certainly there was some big news.

“I think there's going to be significant more stuff that happens in the next 24 hours.”

Everyone's afraid of being busted for tampering. There's a whole bunch of things that have been agreed to. The nobones of freight. Everyone's afraid to say right now because some guys got busted for tampering a couple years ago.

We don't get to have our fizz much fun on the first. No, we don't get a sign in triad at 602. Yes. Right. We've seen it before.

All right. Thank you very much to all of our producers. Uh, today we've got Mark Jackson and Tucker. Thank you to Bobby. Thank you to McMahon.

Thank you for listening and watching the hoop collective. We'll talk to you later this week. Adios, amigos. [MUSIC]