Nara Smith: Stop Calling Me a Tradwife

What is up, Daddy Gang?

“It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with all her daddy.”

[MUSIC PLAYING] Naras Smith, welcome to Caller Daddy. I'm so excited. I am so excited to talk with you today. You are one of the most talked about people on the internet,

whether you are making potentially skittles from scratch. We're getting there. We're getting there. You're in full couture in the kitchen. You really are at the center of so many conversations

when it comes to womanhood, motherhood, family. And so I just-- I can't wait to get into all of it with you today. Let's do it. Naras, recently, you shared online that your daughter, whimsy, was diagnosed with cancer.

And first, I just want to say, I am so sorry for what

you and your daughter and your family are going through. I truly cannot imagine. They're just like, all the condolences sent your way. Something that I really was struck by is that when you shared it online, you kind of talked about how you were hoping that

sharing would allow other families to maybe feel less alone and be able to feel like there are other people going through what you're going through. And I thought that was really beautiful. And I hope that maybe our conversation today

can give a little bit of that to anyone watching, too. Yeah, I hope that, too, I think there's something so beautiful and grounding and supportive about having a community. And you feel like when something bad happens in your life that it's usually a very isolating experience

to where you feel like no one else would get it

or no one really understands or all these different things.

But the more time I spend in the hospital and kind of seeking that community myself, the more I realize that there's actually a lot more parents going through these exact same thing, maybe in different ways, but essentially the same thing is me.

And I think also by sharing it, it opened up that whole world to me to where my DMs were flooded with parents going through the same thing and being really consolidated almost by what I posted. So I can't even imagine.

And I think that's going to be a huge topic today.

“It's like so much of your life is online, obviously.”

And we'll get to that because you chose to share it at a very specific time, obviously. But let's go back to the beginning, okay? Because I was thinking about it this morning. And I'm like, what were you thinking about it?

I was like, I feel like everyone remembers

the first NARS myth video they saw.

What was your one mind? Mine was like, you were in your old kitchen. Oh, yeah, the Dallas one. You did the classic like my husband's that he was hungry for. And I literally just looked and I was like, oh my God.

But I feel like everyone has that core memory of like, I know I remember when she first popped on the scene for me. But to anyone who maybe lives under rock that is watching this, can you explain what people can expect in one of your videos? I think it's all, it's, it was born out of this very,

it was very coincidental. Like we, okay, so let me go back. I had my second son, my first son, my second baby. And I was feeling really crappy. And I didn't know what was going on.

So I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and my ex-must started flaring up really bad to the point where I genuinely felt crippled by it because I couldn't really go out. I couldn't use my hands. I couldn't brush my hair.

It was this, the Bob also came from that because I was like, I can't do my curls anymore because of all these health issues. So then I also, not being from America. I didn't quite know what it meant eating processed food here because a lot of ingredients in our food are not good for us.

So then I kind of did so much research to the point where I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll just have to make everything from scratch because that feels the safest to me. So I started doing that and then gone on TikTok and started sharing that.

And that's when the whole situation kind of happened and then during COVID, I couldn't really wear any of my fun outfits anywhere. So I decided to wear them in the kitchen. My daughters loved it. And it was just this thing that kind of happened

and then the voice, I think there's like components to my content. It's the cooking from scratch and then there's the fashion and then there's the voice and all of these pieces were born individually. Like the voice came from me having put my baby down and I was like, I've just spent so much time putting you down.

There's no way I'm gonna jeopardize waking you up. But we got mom's gotta work. But I gotta get this video up. I take no days off. So we just gotta make it happen.

So I spoke really softly and quietly and I didn't wake my kid up.

“And then I posted it and then that's how the voice kind of came about.”

So everything was born out of this really innocent place. It's really crazy to know because I feel like everyone knows that voice and even people have recreated. Obviously, now people do their nurse myth voice.

oh, I gotta get this up and I'm just gonna whisper. But then after that, you were like, okay, people clearly like it. Now I'm gonna give it to them.

- Yeah, 'cause sometimes you don't always do the voice, right?

- When I do, so when I do my voiceovers, usually I do the voice and then when I do talking directly to camera, it's usually my normal voice. - Okay. - And then people always say, you're yelling at us.

Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm just talking about my ears. - You're so sorry.

“- Okay, what post do you remember first going viral?”

- It was this one post where we had a bunch of peaches at home and my kids actually wanted bread and jam, right? Like, my kids love bread and jam, so I was like, okay, great. Let me just make bread for the first time on camera, why not? So I did, and that was the first video that kind of popped off

'cause I was like, my kids stumbled into my room asking me for bread and jam. And they actually did, did it take hours to make, yeah. Did they still enjoy it and ask for it? Yes.

So that was the first video and then after that,

I didn't really tap into it for a while. I kind of just sprinkled it in because I didn't quite realize that people would want that and then I kind of just continue doing it. - So it started a little bit as like a,

this just so happened and you're like kind of obviously recognizing, okay, people like a little bit of this, a little bit of this, but like you now have gone on to create and curate such specific branded world. When do you think this clear vision kind of came

to fruition for you where you were like, this is a business for me and I actually can execute this on a level that's not just like a fun happen chance thing. I think it kind of took a minute. I was everything kind of went insanely viral

when I was pregnant with my third baby whimsy. And I didn't really see it as a business. I was like, oh great, I'm earning money all of a sudden.

I can do this, but I never thought about it

as anything bigger, but then obviously the more I did it and the more deals came in and the more conversations I kind of had with my agents at the time, the more I kind of realized, oh I could actually do this as a job and have the flexibility of being at home

with my kids and kind of figuring that part out. And then obviously now it's evolved into this full scale business that I'm still executing myself, which is crazy. Like I picked the outfits, I picked the recipe, I filmed myself on a tripod, I edited it myself

and then when the kids go to sleep, I do the voice over, get it up the next day. So it's basically a one-man show, women show. And yeah, it's been really eye-opening to now be able to basically do whatever I feel like.

It's really fun. Obviously because again, it's starting as this fun side thing. Do you remember the moment where you sat down with your husband and you were like,

“I think I really want to lean in and fully put time”

and effort into this in a business capacity, not just like, oh, I actually have some time on Sunday. Let's do this. Do you remember when you had that type of conversation together?

Yeah, we had that conversation in my first kitchen that you probably remember. But I think it was more so him. He was like, you know, you can just do this. And I'm like, yeah, I guess.

And he's like, no, like, you actually can. And that's I think those conversations kind of happen. But I think they kind of happen naturally because I'm a very ambitious and driven and hardworking woman to wear.

There was no option but to film and get the video up. So it wasn't even a conversation where I was asking for permission or asking for anything really. I was just like, well, got to watch the kids, huh?

Because I got a film and that happened more and more. And he's like, well, can you maybe come up with a better schedule because this seems a little hectic. I'm like, yeah, okay. But I think it just kind of organically happened.

But there was no other option in my mind because if I do something, I do it. So I love that so much. I love that you're like, lucky, sorry. But like, get on board.

Yeah. (upbeat music) Can we talk about making something from scratch is one thing, Miss Narsma. What are you gonna tell me?

But then you look at things that you've made from scratch. Okay? And we've gone-- - Let me have that. - We've got cough drops. We've got cereal.

We've got chewing gum. - I love a good homemade gum. - No. - No. The chewing gum, I was like, I can't believe this woman.

No, I was like, there's no way.

“And I think that's how some people feel.”

They're like, is she actually being serious? Is this real? Does she actually make it homemade? Like, I guess my question is like, how intentional are you about selecting recipes

that you know people will have the reaction I just had? Where you're like, no way.

Sometimes gets born out of me seeing something

at the grocery store and being like, can I make this at home? Sometimes it's lucky telling me, oh, I really want you to make me talkies. Like, do you think you can do that?

'Cause he's obsessed with talkies. So, I'm like, I'll make it for you.

“Or I think about these random things and challenge myself.”

So it kind of is. And sometimes I'm like, I think this would be really fun. So it really is this like, it's a mix of different things. - Okay, that's fair. - Yeah.

- Your fashion choices have evolved. - They have. - I feel like when I was looking back at your earlier videos, it was like a cute, it was very cute. Like dress, sometimes a little apron on.

More realistic, I guess you could say. Now obviously, we're hitting full contour in the kitchen, baby. The gloves, the one with the gloves, the scrap gloves, the ones with the nails, I was terrified of ruining them.

I'm like, I'm so sorry, Daniel. Just make you feel as putting it. - It is crazy though to see that evolution. Can you talk to me though about those beginning days? Oh, yes, I know you said,

like, I wasn't getting to wear any of my cute outfits out of COVID, you know, you're in your kitchen, but like, did you also have any understanding of the way that you were presenting and what you wanted to present as a woman

in these videos that you were making?

“- Yeah, I think that one's a tricky question”

because at the time when everything kind of started for me, I was pregnant.

So I'm the type of person I will never buy maternity clothes,

I refuse, I'm not gonna do that, but that was just me, I didn't wanna do that ever. So, and I was a very like jeans and like t-shirt type girl. Obviously, I loved my fashion, but I was also a street style girl

when I lived in Europe before. So I told lucky when we dated, I was like, I'm never gonna wear a dress, like good luck. And then when I was pregnant with my third, I was like, well, can't really wear my pants.

I guess dresses and then those were the dresses that I would naturally gravitate towards, like the very cute, I felt very feminine during that pregnancy. So that's kind of what I naturally gravitated towards. And that kind of expressed itself

in the cute colors and the very feminine-looking dresses. That I guess people connected with different things, but that wasn't intentional, it was more so. I was pregnant, I needed to wear a dress, and I felt very like whimsical and feminine during that.

So that's kind of what my fashion choice is reflected.

And I didn't fit a lot of like, contour dresses, because, out of bump, you out of bump. That's where, and I'm sure you can kind of, - Yeah, let's get in time. - I can feel, you can probably feel it. - I'm going with this girl,

'cause I'm like, there was an image that started to be created. And while people loved your content,

“I think a larger conversation really started to bud”

from Nara Smith and who she was in what she was standing for, and what she was representing for women, what do you remember just about the early commentary around you and your brand and your videos? - I, at that point, I was very much online.

So I would read the comments, I'd be like, well, this is weird, because I don't feel like that. And my reality is so different to what people are assuming, based off of the one and a half minute videos they see. So I was very confused where that conversation came from,

but then the more I like read about it, I'm like, you know what? Yeah, but I'm also correcting the narrative, but you're not listening. So, yeah, so let's call it a day.

So people started to compare you to trad-wise. And people were like, you used me as the poster child for the trad-wife movement, which was very bizarre to me. - Why was that bizarre to you? - It was bizarre to me for a multitude of reasons,

but let's, you know what? Let's Google what the definition of a trad-wife is. - Well, that's perfect. - So I'm actually going to ask you, - Yeah.

- But do you consider a trad-wife? - Well, I had to look up the term. - Because of me. - Because I wasn't familiar with that, right? I didn't quite know what it means,

but the fast answer is a trad-wife is a woman who embraces or promotes a traditional model of marriage and family life where she typically prioritizes being a homemaker and a primary caregiver for kids. Takes primary responsibility for cooking,

cleaning, and managing the household. Supports her husband's role as the primary breadwinner, often values traditional gender roles within marriage. So, with that definition and those points, I'm none of that.

And we can go through it, point by point. I don't prioritize being a homemaker. I'm a working mom. Like, I am out in LA. I travel a lot.

I, sure, do I love cooking because it's my passion and because I kind of have to do it given my autoimmune, absolutely. But that's a passion of mine. It's a hobby.

It's not something that I need to be doing for what? - Right, right. - Keep going. - I like this. - This is good.

- Primary caregiver for my kids. No, my husband and I split it 50/50.

When I work, he watches them.

And now, given everything that's been going on, we also have helped my mom's out. We have someone that helps us with the kids because it's just not doable for me to do it all. So, that doesn't really work, right?

Takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household. Yeah, I like to cook. Okay, sumi. I like to cook.

My husband burns everything apart from a good stick. So he'll do that. But I like cooking. So I'm doing it household and cleaning. He does the dishes.

I don't touch the dishes. There's no way you're gonna see me washing and scrubbing the dishes. Also, he cleans our house because he grew up.

He grew, that's lucky, okay?

His mom was like very, very specific with cleaning to where they had like Saturday crew and like, he has sisters. So like someone was in charge of the baseboard. Someone was in charge of the toilet.

Someone was in charge of this. So he's like very like specific with how things need to be cleaned. So he does it. Perfect.

So that doesn't make any sense. Supports the husband's role is the primary breadwinner. No, we both work. Like that doesn't make any sense. Like I provide for our family.

“So we really I think what's happening is they're taking”

the image of a woman in a kitchen in a gorgeous dress. And they are assuming that this is your life and we are going back in time.

And this is like a very traditional.

And the thing there's also a bigger conversation to be had because everything that I've been reading online, I find it very concerning almost that we need to put women in very specific, very narrow boxes in order to make sense of them.

I don't think so why can't we do it all? Why can't we be a working mom that enjoys cooking that enjoys being at home and taking care of our kids. But also is on the next plane out to LA to take business meetings with big executives.

Like why can't that coexist? And I think that's something that's very concerning to me that a woman can't exist under any terms, but the little boxes we put them in. And you know, media literacy is another issue.

But it's like I do think that you are creating a brand, right? And so you're seeing consistently that something is working. And I guess when I think about that though, some people could argue, okay, well, the way that you're presenting

we're only really seeing for a while, one version of you, which is a lot of the videos you've started with is saying, like my husband is craving this, so I'm going to make him this.

“And so it leaves a lot of room for assumptions, right?”

Well, she looks like she's wearing the dress. She looks this way, she's making this for her husband. And so some people could argue, well, for a while, we didn't see the business side view. We didn't know any of this.

So we were assuming that you're just like stuck in the kitchen making these things. But obviously now as you've opened up more, like we're getting to know a little bit more about you. So did you at all see why people could think that way

in the beginning? Yeah, 100%. How would you deal with that though? Crying to my husband, I feel like, what is happening? Did they not know that?

I worked as a model, I've been working since I've been 14. All these things, but I am very fair and compassionate. Like I understand where that can come from, but then the more that narrative started swelling, I was like, well, let me say something.

So I remember posting this video of this morning routine in my voice over was me being a working mom and traveling and kind of debunking all of that. But then a lot of the comments were still that narrative. And I realized that a lot of the people that are very,

very stuck in this narrative do not want to be to correct it. They don't want to hear that. There was this one situation with someone on my team where we were trying to work with this person and the person was like, I don't care,

what you say, what you do, what you show me, what Forbes articles, you show me of her business, like, she is a trad wife to me and I don't want to work with her. So that kind of opened my eyes as well

“to the opposite end of, I think I could sit here all day”

and try to debunk this narrative when some people not everyone, but some people just don't want to be corrected. No, they don't. And I also think there is a frustration around people

who want something to just be at face value what it is. And some people are really lazy and don't have any interest in getting underneath something. And you can even go all the way back to the beginning days for Colorado for me, like the girl that only talks about sex,

like, well, of course there's more to me. And I, of course saw like there was something in the market that there was no one talking about it in the way that it was like, there's so much more, but I think when you, it's easier to kind of like pigeonhole a woman

and kind of keep her in that lane. I also think it's very threatening to be honest to think of you as more than just like a very gorgeous woman who is making these like concoctions that are so extravagant, you're also a business woman

and you're fully aware of what you're doing

Like, then you're the whole package and we don't like that as a woman. No. Because then you're a threat. Right.

And so that's so interesting that that woman was like, I don't want to hear it. It was actually a guy, well, but the women aren't different. Like I stumbled across a fair amount of women at like our exactly like that.

“So I think it's not very gender-specific.”

I think those just a bigger issue as a society that we have. Can you talk to me about, in a cute way, obviously like our reference, there's a lot of videos that you were like,

my husband is craving this, so I'm gonna make it. Yeah. What do you think early days? 'Cause I do think we've gotten to know you and lock you a little bit more.

And that just happened sometimes with time and yes, unfortunately, you lightly having to share a little bit more, but like early days, what were some misconceptions you felt about you and your husband and those dynamics?

And how did that impact you behind the camera with the two of you? I don't really know exactly what those misconceptions are because I kind of took a step back from the internet. But I think one of them is obviously the Tradwife narrative

that there's like very specific gender roles. Like, do I like my husband filling up my gas tank? Absolutely. Do I like all these things that like, I don't want to be doing?

Yeah, I don't want to close my own suitcase, do it for me.

“But I think that there was all this misconception”

around like him being this very specific dominant male person when behind the scenes, it's not like that.

So we were always like, we've always been very like equal

and like understanding of each other and like there was always a conversation that we had. So I never felt like whatever the public saw was what was going on. Interesting.

I, okay, so something I took from your book that was interesting, also congratulations. It's beautiful homemade. We're going to talk more about it. But something you said is a lot of what I do is tongue and cheek.

I push buttons, I follow instincts. Can we talk about leaning in? Because I'm, like, I think there's a version of like, you know it's working. Yeah, and even if it's pissing people off,

like you're still going to put on the dress. Yeah, and it's going to look like it's going to look. Yeah. And how do you balance that? Because I think that there are some people that can say,

okay, you clearly are aware that like people are assuming this looks a little trad wifey, right? And so some people can say, well, she's leaning in and she's, it's brilliant. She's making money off of it.

But she knows who she is clearly. And then other people could say it is regressive. Like, how are you towing that line? I think I've also evolved to my personal style. Like, obviously during my pregnancy, it was very feminine

and kind of leaning towards that aesthetic. But now, not being pregnant, I fit all my sample size clothes. So let me just go do that. And now it's like, now I don't necessarily see where the that trad wife angle is coming from because I don't think

a trad wife would be cooking in, like, scaparelli. You know, or a mosquito look straight off the runway.

“Like, I don't think that's what a trad wife would do.”

So now I understand it even less. So that's like a little tricky. But I feel like, you know, let them think what they're going to think because also it is interesting. I feel like I've had a lot of fascinating conversations

with women in this room where it's like, we are all aware of the society we are still living in. And the double standards for women. And I think it really paints the picture of like hearing about that reporter, the Norris Smith who came on the scene

and there were a lot of misconceptions.

You're never going to change specific people's opinions.

They will always remember you as just that girl. I am still labeled sometimes like the girl that talks about low jobs or whatever. And I'm like, oh, that was a decade ago. Like, well, that's crazy.

Like, and I've interviewed all these different people and they're all attached from what the public perception is. So sometimes I don't even really recognize it. No, but I think what's interesting is there's also the debate about being a woman and finding that perfect balance

of like recognizing, well, why don't I just lean in? Because if this is the society we live in and this is what's happening, but not losing yourself in it. So like, I think that's where there's a lot of nuance to it. I guess is what I'm saying.

And so the voice and the dress is it's smart. You're monetizing off of this thing. And I get people who don't understand the nuance can just be enraged in the capacity that is lightly pushing on the boundary of like, it's a gray area.

It will like the gray area, Nara. But I feel like I don't mind being in the gray area. Like, it's, I've kind of detached myself from what the public perception is because I know I'm not that.

And I feel like, here's the thing, I tried so hard

People didn't want to listen.

I'm still kind of, I'm like, this is not what I am. So I want to make it very clear.

“And I think if people don't want to understand that,”

they don't want to understand that. And that's just all right to me. But I do want to push people's mental boundaries to be like, oh, a women can exist in all these different spaces. And I feel like I'm trying to do that.

And another reason why we're talking about this is because I think people should really try to listen. Because it's not just me, I think that women in general, in all different areas of their life, get put into these categories.

And I want to have that bigger conversation of, let's not do that as a society, let's let women exist in the spaces that they want exist and not pigeonhole them into one specific thing, because women are multifaceted. Like, we do it all in whatever capacity that is,

whether that's in the working field or at home,

or wherever that may be. And I think let's have a bigger conversation and not zero in on what I do, because it's not accurate. - It's such a good point. And I appreciate you clarifying that,

because I agree, it's not your job to clarify it.

“But it is frustrating when I think you see a woman in media”

who is such a good example of the double standard of like, why are we painting you in this one capacity? - Yeah. - We're pretending like she's just sleeping over her husband in the kitchen, and it's like, that's just not what it is.

- Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you, but let's have a bigger conversation here and see what really is the issue, because I'm not the issue. Something that is happening for you is the issue.

So let's chat about it. It's very threatening. It's very threatening. - Thanks, chat. (gentle music)

- Let's talk about kind of this concept of, you know,

people labeling you and projecting things onto you when it comes to motherhood. - Yeah. - What do you think would surprise people about how you and lucky compliment each other as parents?

- Maybe how involved he is.

“I think there's this, I don't know what it is,”

but there's this like standard where people are like, holding the baby, he's watching the baby, what do you mean? He's watching his baby, he's a dad, of course. So I think there's this like weird societal thing that's happening where it's like, who's watching the baby?

What do you mean he has to, like where he has a dad? - And I think what's hard is people again really struggle, like you post so much online. - Yeah. - And so if you're the primary one that's like posting,

they somehow believe that he's not a part of certain things. And he's like, new guys, there's like a complete other life outside of social media that people choose to not share. - I'm very selective with what I post and how I post and how much I share of my life

because I used to be a lot more open. But then the more traction my social media got, the more people came to my page, the more people, like kind of piece things together that were so inaccurate to what was going on

to where I kind of felt like I had to take a step back and really evaluate what I show and how much I show. You give an example that kind of force you to be a little less open. - There was this incident of me posting my kids and then there was this TikTok video where someone,

I don't even know how they got it, but they got like a story that I posted on Instagram about my daughter, like a year and a half prior to me even having TikTok. So I'm like, where did this video come from?

It was an Instagram story, not even in a feed post. And it had millions of views and it was just her sitting on the couch and she's so cute. But the comments, it had like 200,000 likes. It had like 8,000 comments or like so many.

And so many of the comments were like, I can't wait for her to be older or her eyes are so pretty or look at those lips and then I'd go on the profiles and it was like old men. To where I realized I'm actually doing my kids

a disservice by exposing them and making them vulnerable on the internet to where I'm like, okay, kids are off limits. So when I do work shoots with the kids, like there was this skims photo shoot

that we did a holiday shoot we did last year where I told the team I'm like, I would love to do a family photo shoot, but these are my boundaries. And a lot of people I work with are very understanding,

skims was so understanding about it. So accommodating, but there's just, there's dangers on the internet that I need to protect my kids from. So that was one of those experiences

or just like little like books they'd see in the back or like the whole religious thing. I'm like, hmm, no. But okay, I get why you're saying that. So let me take a step back

because you're actually misunderstanding things I put out. So I kind of put myself in this little bubble to where I just wanna keep things that are very personal to me, personal to me. Yeah, like I think there's been obviously such an uptick

in the conversation around posting children online

just because of the amount of evidence we're seeing of how destructive and exploitive it can be and seeing how many disgusting people are online and are consuming the content in a way that you wish that's not the world that we lived in,

but unfortunately that is the reality. And so to some degree, it is the parents job to protect the children, how have you and lucky, like what is the boundary of like when to share, when to not share.

“Yeah, I think we kind of take it situation by situation”

because if Vogue came knocking on my door and they were like, we want you and the kids on the cover, I'd be like, well, if my kid grows up and I say no to that would they feel like they missed out on something like, I don't know.

They're like, we definitely talk about it situation by situation, but when it comes to social media and social media content, no kids faces, I don't want them being recognized, I don't want anything. So I just, they're a part of my life.

So obviously they can be a part of my content, but then it's just them running around or whatever to not see their face. So I feel like I'm still navigating kind of how to what to show and what not to show

because I care about my community and I love that we're all in this together and that people like show up and support and like I've really build a close relationship with my community to where I feel like I really want you guys

to see as much of my life as you can, but then also I know that I have to set boundaries because if I don't, then what are you gonna do? - Yeah. - It's also so hard.

It's so interesting you're saying this because I was talking to someone recently about it

“and the conversation around sharing your children online.”

I'm like, it's so crazy to me though that the people who don't, you see a lot of women get like, oh, she must be a bad mother.

Like we never seen her with that conversation.

- I'm already ready for that for me 'cause I'm like, oh my god, people are gonna be like, she's never with her kid and like, no, no, no, no, I don't post my kid. - Yeah.

- There's a very different, but again, if it's like they don't see it, then they don't believe it. - Yeah, that's kind of been an ongoing thing. It's like, oh, where are your kids? What are you doing?

Lucky never, he's never with his kids. I'm like, if I were to turn this camera around, you would see four screaming kids and lucky trying to wrangle them all. But I'm not bearing you

and all you see is me and my pretty dress making skittles. Okay? 'Cause we're just keeping it for the brand. We're about to be a video that you wanna see. - Right.

- Enjoy, right. Talking about motherhood and family, what is something from your own childhood that you are intentionally wanting to replicate? - I think the curiosity.

I feel like growing up, I was always very encouraged

to be curious and ask about things and understand how things work and be knowledgeable about things. My dad was very German growing up. He would play this game with us

where he'd get a globe. It would light up, like a world globe. And he would spin the globe and then he'd like stop it. And then he'd like point to this.

He's like, what is this country? What's the capital? How many people live there? And we do that was like, aren't like, he would not chase us around the yard.

He would do that with us. Or he would get me this like really thick, I remember it was like thick, purple, velvet. Just book about Greek mythology. And he would like quiz me on it.

Or like a book about Marie Antoinette. And I was like, what, six or seven?

“So I think just that knowledge and that curiosity,”

it's made me very aware of things

and like, I've always had this like deep feeling

of just, but why? Why are we doing this? Why are you saying these things to me? Like, what's the bigger message? And I want my kids to like really have that understanding

of the world and like really a big deep when it comes to things. I don't want them to be followers. I want them to be leaders, strong leaders. Have you noticed at all 'cause I know they're young,

but like have you noticed any of them having that same curiosity that you have? Oh, rumble, my five-year-old, she's exactly like me. I'm like, oh, don't let it down a little bit.

Like hold on. Yeah, it's really funny seeing their personalities slowly emerge. Rumble is like me. Slim is like lucky, very quiet and reserved, but so smart and so brilliant.

whimsy, she's like our little fiery one, but she's a third, she's the third. I'm the third. That's all so, so you get it. You're just constantly pushing, but it's pushing buttons.

But she also like, no one's gonna tell her crap. And she's also very aware of situations to wear like, if she doesn't like someone there's a reason. So I'm never like, be nice. No.

You don't question her. No, I don't question her. No, 'cause she's very observant. And then Fani is just nine months. She's long for the road.

I'm gonna figure that out. I'm gonna figure out Pani's about out. I'll see you later and you'll give me the update. Yes. Is there anything that you're doing differently

that you're like, oh, I wanna change that

I think my parents weren't very patient. So I think just being patient and trying to really get on their level, which from what I understand is like a huge thing for parents, hood that you're like,

I'm struggling, patients, patients. Right, before you're like, don't freak out, just give yourself a patty breath. That word, I need to paint that everywhere in my home. No, truly.

“I think that's something that has been really hard for me”

'cause I'm very like, let's just do it. Let's just like, why aren't you putting on your shoes? Like, let's go. And I just really had to like take a deep breath and I'm like, they're tiny humans.

That's what I remind myself of. They're like tiny humans that haven't done a lot before and you just need to realize that like, putting yourself in the state of mind therein. Like, of course they're asking me why they have to go to bed

'cause they don't know what time it is or what's going on. - Sure. - Patients, what did love look like in your house to you of like your parents?

- What is that face? - You know, my parents have a really complicated relationship.

They've always been so loving

and they were the best, well they are. They are the best parents ever. They've taught me so much and have really grown a law also. And now as an adult, I see them totally different.

“I think being married now and having kids”

where I might have been her as a teenager being like, why are you guys fighting or why are you doing this? So now I have a lot of compassion for each of them individually and together

to where I understand the choices that they've made. I understand why they did certain things. So I think my relationship with them has really changed and evolved over all these years. But yeah, they didn't have the best marriage

and they didn't have the best dynamic at home. So a lot of things that I'm unlearning now stemmed from that but I love them so much and I have a great relationship with both of them. - Did they stay together or did they?

- They're still together, but it was very tumultuous. So, you know. - No, but I think that's interesting of like, when a lot of people grew up in a tumultuous situation with watching their parents but then there was a divorce

or a separation, that also can teach you to like really stick things through. But like, at what point is should you not, right? And so like, I'm sure there's, yeah, I'm sure there's things that you're trying to figure out

of like, how do you handle conflict when you're lucky are fighting? If you watch something very particular and specific repeated in your household, there's like some unlearning that has to go on.

- Yeah, and the older I get the more I realize that. My parents are great parents, but when it comes to their marriage, they were not the best example for marriage whatsoever. So, I think then getting married, married at a really young age,

we got married when I was 18 and had our first baby when I was 19.

So, I'd never had a good example of how to navigate conflict,

how to navigate a agreement, how to navigate speaking, my mind without feeling like I cannot, like all these things that were internal to me, not so much about my partner, right? It was never that much about my partner or more about me

and the things that I've learned. And we've gone to couples therapy, I think that's a great tool. I think doing therapy yourself and like really just looking, I feel like being married is like a mirror.

Like, you're all of a sudden in this space where you're confronted by all the things that you may or may not be doing wrong or things that you've learned that might not be the best for you.

“And then all of a sudden, you have to work on that”

because I'll twice your relationship will not be the way that you'd want it to be. And like thinking about that, Nora, I completely agree and then adding on the level of having children in the midst of also trying to beat your young,

your talk care of yourself, your fostering your relationship with your husband. And then I know you've got four kids in five years. Yeah, my oldest is five, yeah, in five years. Last year, you did post about struggling with postpartum

anxiety and can you just describe what those first few weeks after having your daughter and giving birth like what were those like? Each pregnancy was so different. My first pregnancy and my first experience postpartum

was like, what the heck is happening?

Because I feel like we always talk about conceiving

and then being pregnant and then birth, but what happens after and I think being young and maybe me, I was very impulsive. I'm like, whatever, yeah, I'll have a baby. So I never really sat, I never did a birth in class.

I've never read like a book to the end. Sure, did I start, you know? Those books that you always get, the like, baby, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a few pages in and then I'm like, whatever.

So I clearly didn't really know a lot.

I'm like, oh, the baby's out great and then they're like,

“okay, you need to keep pushing, get the placenta.”

I'm like, what placenta? What are you talking about? I had no idea and then postpartum you all of a sudden, well, I gave birth in my midwife's office which was how to bedroom.

So it was like a birthing center, but not really. I don't know, it was a room with whatever. So I got sent home with this baby right after giving birth and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I have no idea, but I'm just gonna follow my gut.

I've always been the type of person to like,

I know in my gut what's right and I know, I'll know what to do and then I had it. My mom and law there as well to help 'cause it was during COVID, so my parents couldn't come. But that first experience was really rough.

But I think I also just like kept it pushing. But then my fourth experience and then each experience was rough in whatever way, but my fourth experience was, she was a surprise baby. So we were done after our third and then I found out

I was pregnant with her and I was freaking out. I remember like everyone I called my agent, my pet didn't tell my parents for the longest time. I didn't really want to tell my agent, but then I'm like, I don't fit anything I need to tell her.

I was at like, I was at the scrap or really show wearing this dress

“and I just remember I flew into Paris that same morning”

and I was just throwing up on the way there. I'm like, I actually need to tell people. So I was terrified because I just, I don't know what that feeling was, but I just knew I was out of point in my career

and in my home life where I felt very settled. And I knew what the pregnancy would do to my body and my mental and like all these things. It's my stamina. And to make it more overwhelming.

Yes, so I didn't want to tell anyone. Took the longest time to tell people. I truly like really just didn't think about it at all until it hit me right before she was born. I'm like, oh, I'm actually having a baby.

And then like all the emotions kind of came in and then I went into labor on my birthday, actually. Right after midnight she was born. It was a great labor, whatever. I gave birth.

I was sitting there, lucky helped. And we were sitting there and then the next morning I woke up and that was one of this, it was one of the scariest experiences postpartum for me because it genuinely felt like everything was a dream.

I told my, I told lucky. I was like, it feels like I'm gonna

wake up tomorrow and I would have never been pregnant.

I don't have a baby. I don't like, this doesn't feel real. What is happening? I was terrified. I told him like, I don't feel like I'm here.

Am I here? Like, did I, like, I looked at him one night and I'm like, did I die? And he got so concerned. He called a sister in his mom and he's like,

is this normal like what's going on? And then I didn't tell my midwife 'cause there was like this hole. I just have sometimes I have a hard time conveying like hard emotions to people

because I want to be seen as this very like collected, strong woman to where I don't want people to think I'm unwell, no pun intended. And it was really hard and I had really bad postpartum anxiety for like two weeks.

I remember I didn't tell anyone I gave birth online. It took me like a hot minute to like let people know because it felt like it didn't happen. Every morning I'd wake up looking at this baby being like, who are you?

And I'd never had that experience before

and that was really, really hard. And then the postpartum anxiety kicked in to where I was like, well, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't know. And then through it all, I still had to work.

Like three weeks after she was born, I was shooting cookbook images in where was it? The cat skills or somewhere like, somewhere like an hour and a half, I don't know where it was. But we were shooting at this house

and she was three weeks old and I just had to keep it pushing. So it was almost this like, I was so disconnected from myself and your body and my body, like everything.

It felt like I was living this like warped reality. And it took me a hot minute to find myself back in my body and like understandably. - Yeah. - And then the minute I did, I was like,

oh, we've got a rhythm here, you know? Like everything's okay. We find out when she has cancer. It was just a mess and then on top of all of that, I was still posting my videos.

I was still posting stories and being like, today my kids were, while internally, I was like crumbling, truly crumbling. And I was like zipping up my dresses, being like, okay, let's just go do it.

Let's just take the meeting. Oh, next, flight out to here. Okay, I'm bringing the bit of pumping. Okay, wait, I get felt like this like, you're just going in autopilot to just get through

get through get through get through, and you're like not processing deadlines for the book. Like there was no messing around. There was no messing around.

“I think that something that you're describing”

is probably one of the more realistic experiences that women have after birth. And I think that even saying that out loud,

is that true? And it's like, yes, like, almost, I would say let's say I have 10 of my girlfriends that have children, seven of them have had extreme postpartum anxiety, really intrusive thoughts.

Like I remember when I got pregnant

and my friend came to me and basically it was like,

I just want to say something not to freak you out, but I want to say it before you give birth

“'cause I need you to remember this moment.”

Oh, she said. She basically was like, there is a chance, and I hope it doesn't happen to you, but there is a chance you are going to have some really crazy dark thoughts.

Yeah. Like, crazier than you could probably ever imagine. Really intrusive thoughts. And it's okay. And it's actually way more normal,

but no one talks about it because as a woman, like you just said, you didn't tell your midwife 'cause you want to present a strong, and then there's the added level of like, you just gave birth, you should be so happy,

you should present this, okay, figure,

because also like the mother not being okay,

like, oh my god, what's wrong with you? 'Cause now we don't have as much empathy anymore 'cause you don't have the baby in the belly, like you got to get your shit together. And so there's all these pressures

to like bounce back and get back and it's like, I can't imagine the internal struggle emotionally that you were going through and that you had to fight that battle. Someone on your own, of course you can share it

with your husband. Yeah. It's on you in a capacity, of course you should share it, but like, it's overwhelming. It's so overwhelming.

And I think it doesn't get talked about enough and there's not a safe enough space for women to really voice how they're feeling. And I think it is really important though, post-partum to be open.

“I think that's what I learned through my last experience.”

I'm like, I really wish I would have told my wife or gotten a therapist or someone to just help navigate because on a physical level, like your hormones plummet. That's just what it is. Like you go through like the largest plummet

in your hormones that you can't work and possibly have it in your life, right? So I think as women, I really encourage everyone that's having a hard post-partum experience to really seek help because I promise you're not

going to get seen as weak or not capable or whatever more so it will give you the tools to really have that community. And even with intrusive thoughts, like, no one talks about it because it's scary because you don't want anyone

to think that you would ever do anything to your baby or that you would harm yourself or that whatever it is and no one really creates that safe space of it being okay, but it is okay and you can also have people in your space that will understand and help you navigate it.

So many women who've gone through it would be like, I'm just telling you, they're like, yes, but to a normal person maybe who, like, what's wrong with you, you need help. But not in a way that's bad and more so in a way

of like, let's support and give you a good foundation to feel your best, not because you're bad, but because you need a stable foundation. And I also think like, when you, there is something in life where it's like,

if this is happening so regularly, that is then the norm, like, that is normal too. It's not normal to live like that forever, but there is clearly scientifically proven that women after all of these hormones drop,

like, you're going to go through this potentially and needs to be talked about, it needs to be talked about. I hope this makes women feel less alone and also we're hopefully just through this conversation chipping away a little bit at the stigma

of postpartum, the anxiety, the intrusive thoughts, like, you are not alone, you are not crazy.

“And that is where I think women coming together”

and talking about it makes other women finally feel, like, oh my God, there's like a woman that's going to watch us

right now and be like, girls, I never needed that more

than to hear that I'm not insane for having these thoughts. - No, you've just gone through the most life-altering experience ever that you've ever go through. Give yourself grace and also recognize that you literally, you've grown a human being every single bit of this human

being you've grown from nails to hair follicles to organs to brain to skull, everything. And then you've given birth to this human being and then what you're just supposed to resume business is usual, no, that's like physically not how it works

and mentally not how it works. And I think we talk about the physical maybe even more than the mental. Like, I feel like postpartum in general is not talked about enough but if we do talk about it, it's like, oh, you're gonna have this

or you're gonna not be able to do this or like, let's figure out the nursing or whatever it may be but no one necessarily talks about all the things that could happen mentally after. - It's so true.

I was thinking about that because it is such an adjustment from your mind and your body and they're both going through such different things. - Yeah. - A large conversation around postpartum bodies.

I mean, that's a constant conversation but I feel like you kind of got put into the mix

really celebrated how quickly you appeared to recover

and they were talking about, you know,

“I think it was like a mirror, selfie or whatever it was”

or picture of you and then while others talked about, you know, the pressure that this puts on women to bounce back after having a baby, how did you feel about being a part of that conversation and how have you navigated that?

I think that's postpartum looks so different for everybody. Bodies are different for everybody. Some people bounce back really quick, some people don't, some people get stretch marks, some people don't.

I think that we as women should uplift every single woman postpartum and I think, yes, did I post a picture that maybe evoked emotion in other women or other people in general? Yes, but what people don't realize is that to me

that picture wasn't me at my best in my normal. I was crying that same morning. I was wearing a diaper in that picture. I was wearing linen pants because I didn't fit a single one of my denim pants that I had.

I was way above my usual weight. Like I didn't feel like myself and I posted that picture being like, I don't feel like myself but my body is magical because look what it just did and I'm really proud of that.

And that was my postpartum experience. But I think in general, we should celebrate everyone for where they're at postpartum. I completely agree. I think that there's such a pressure when it comes

to the even just the concept of bounce back culture. Again, focusing more on how we do immensely girlies.

Like the body is the most incredible thing

that women and the fact that we are able to do or able to do in this moment is insane. And so just to be alive after that experience is like, yes, I'm happy. And so I think understandably people are going to have

insecurities that come with, again, extreme changes. But to put another woman down for how something she can't

“control and also you shouldn't feel like you have to hide.”

Also my experience wasn't, I think it's one thing what the public sees. But then it's also so different to how I feel. I think that being a mother looks so different for every single person.

And I think we should really celebrate everyone for where they're at. And the safety that it takes to share whatever they want to share. Like I think that we should really just make it a safe space for women in general, regardless of what your postpartum looks

like, whether you bounce back or you don't because to me, someone bouncing back might look a certain way. I'm like, oh, because I compare myself to sometimes. I'm like, ugh, that mom really just did it. She's thriving.

She just did this. But being a mom myself and having gone through birth, I'm like, what she shows me is probably her best or she wants to show parts of herself that she feels really good about or that she wants to share for whatever purpose

that may be. I'm not going to compare myself to anyone.

“I was going to say I think that actually leads us perfectly”

into this next conversation because it really is such an indicator of like, guys, we also just anything you see on social media, you don't have the full story. Even freaking close. Like at this point, I am convinced we are maximum

in moments getting 10% of a lot of people's lives. And that is for some people generous. Like you said, as you are navigating postpartum, you find out that your daughter whimsy has cancer. Yeah.

Can you explain just like how you decided for you and your family that it was the right time to even share this news publicly? It took a lot. I told myself I'm not going to get emotional. Sorry.

I got tissues. You're good. I think I mean, it all boiled down to when we found out about everything and then all the behind the scenes and everything that was going on lucky.

And I did have those conversations.

And my fear, I always had this like lingering fear.

Well, what if someone takes a video of us in the hospital and they put it out? Or because when we were in the hospital, people would come up to us and say, hey, can I get a picture with you? Can you say hi to my friend?

And they probably didn't know that we were going through the hardest time of our lives. So obviously, I smiled instead of course you can. And took the picture, but I was always nervous that people would kind of piece it together

as someone would talk or someone would whatever. And to me, her safety and privacy was the most important thing. So I would always go back and forth with lucky and saying, should we just share it? Should we just talk about it?

What if someone else does? And he's like, but that doesn't matter.

And I always came back to the fact

like, I don't want to share it. I don't want to like talk about it. I don't want her out there. I don't want any of that. So then as time went on and as we went through all the treatments

and had really hard days and a slightly easier days, I found a lot of community in the hospital talking to parents or the nurses or going on Reddit and like reading people's stories, like all of that. And the more I kind of went through that,

I realized that I find a lot of comfort and knowing that I'm not alone. So then when she, right after her birthday, she was in remission, we finished her last treatment, we rang the bell.

It was very emotional. And I just realized, well, maybe if I use my platform

to make even just one person feel less alone,

I can do that. And that's kind of why we shared it. I can't even imagine, Nora, you being in that hospital and the anxiety of trying to protect your baby and also being this public person.

And I'm sure there was just like so many emotions around, like, oh my God, I wanted like turn this part of my life off right now because like this is all that matters. And I can't imagine the anxiety on top of already like the trauma that you and your family are having to endure.

It was really hard. When you found out this diagnosis, like, what do you remember about that day? - I just remember we were actually coming back from a big family photo shoot, the holiday one.

And my mother-in-law, she talked to Lucky and she was like, I saw this thing don't be alarmed,

“but like maybe you should look at it and talk to Nora about it.”

So then Lucky came into the room. I was nursing Bonnie and he said, don't freak out, honey. Not that I usually freak out, but like he was like just, just look at it and see how you feel. Should I take her to the doctor?

I was like, like, what happened? Did you get hurt or like, what's going on? And then he was like, no, I don't think so. My mom just saw this. So then he was like, I was just like,

let's just be safe and take her to the ER. Then we took her to the ER. The ER was like, we don't really know what to make of this. Just tell us if it gets worse. And I was like, okay, well, maybe it's just like a kid thing.

I don't know. So then later that week, I took Bonnie to the pediatrician for the first time. So I rang him and I was like, this is what's going on with whimsy.

Do you think I can bring her to just have a look? So we walk in there and he does her first.

“So he looks at her and then I just remember him going quiet.”

He went quiet and like very common collected. And in that moment like my heart just dropped. And there was this like weird gut feeling of being like, oh, she has cancer. I know she has because my mom before that

she'd gone through a year of chemo treatments for breast cancer and it was gruesome. And it was so hard to watch her go through that.

And there was always this lingering fear

of this like sickness that would come. So then I was like, oh, she has cancer. But I didn't want to say it to Lucky. Like I did hint at it and he was like, no honey, you can't like, you can't think like that.

So then he didn't even think he looked at Bonnie really. He was like, you guys need to take her to like the closest hospital. So the closest hospital was the Yale New Haven children's hospital. So I drove back home with Bonnie because our other kids were at home and he took whimsy.

And long story short, there were a bunch of like biopsies, ultrasound, scans, whatever. And then a week after that initial visit,

“we got a phone call and I just remember standing in the living room”

and the phone rang. And it was this like weird gut feeling. I'm like, oh, it's the hospital. They're going to tell us she has cancer. I looked at Lucky and I'm like, this is it.

Let's just brace ourselves and like it's cancer. And then you could just tell by the voice and they were like, we're so sorry, she has cancer. You guys need to start like treatment immediately. And then they took her and then she started treatment.

They tested her further, did a few more scans. And they were like, it's really, it's spread in her body. So like you guys need to, this is the treatment plan. And this is what she has to do and it was really hard. So we lucky kind of did the majority of the,

because you would go home and then she would go to the hospital for five days and stay there for Monday to Friday. Every like 16-ish days depending on what her blood count was. And lucky did those overnight stays because I had fawny at home that I was nursing

and I couldn't be away from her. So I would go during the day and then obviously try to also work and like do that. So it was like playing Tetris almost and then we had our other kids. So it was really, really hard and it was a really tough experience.

And every day you wake up and not quite know what's going to,

what, like, is the treatment working? Is it not like all these different things to where it, it was really hard. Yeah. Nora, like, I am so sorry, even just hearing you like no parent

should ever have to smile. No child should ever have to experience this. I can't imagine the emotional toll also of trying to be present for multiple children while also wanting to be present for the one child that is sick and going through it. Yeah.

It also sounds like such a blessing to have such an incredible partner

who was able to take this on while you were taking this on over here. I'm curious, like, in that darkest moment where you see you get that phone call

“as a couple, like, what, how did you, I think it was a lot of being on autopilot”

because I think when I'm faced with a crisis, whatever that crisis may be, I'm like, okay, there's no time for emotions, there's no time for anything. It's like zoning in and doing it. So I think at first, like, we didn't process it. But I think it was, we were both on autopilot making sure that she was all right

making sure our other kids were all right. And it didn't really hit us yet, right? So we were like, okay, let's, let's do it. It's like, fine, I guess. And we were very communic, like, we communicated a lot.

I was checking on with him, like, how are you doing, what are we doing?

Like, he was checking in with me because you always hear when couples go through a really

hard time and either makes or breaks you and a lot of the times I feel like I've heard about couples kind of drifting away, but I feel like it's even, it's brought lucky in me, even closer together because we were, we really had to rally for whimsy. So yeah, that was, that was just an insane experience. And then the more time went on, her hair started falling out.

And you, like, could physically see it, like, she would get really nauseous and, like, all the things that come with someone going through chemo treatment. And I think that's when it kind of hit both of us. And then we started, like, crumbling a little bit to where, when I had a hard day with it, he picked me up when he had a hard day.

I picked him up and we were like, let's just keep going. It felt like we were, you know, that game where you're, like, tied to someone else.

“And you have to make it to the finish line together.”

That's what it felt like. And every time I was like, I don't think I can go any further. He was like, yes, you can't, like, you can. And then vice versa. So I think it really, ever acquired a lot, a lot out of both of us, but we made it.

How did you explain just like the changes that were happening to your other children? I think they were out of an age where they could kind of get it kind of not. But there was this book, I don't remember the name of the book. But it was this book about cancer that a mom wrote after her kid went through. I think it was brain cancer to, like, make sense of this situation.

So we read this book. I think it was something and the hair fairy or something. So where it talked about, like, this cancer, it was like described as like a gummy ball in your body or something like that and that you would lose your hair.

“And then the hair fairy would come and like, you should just put your hair somewhere and it's”

going to take the hair and like it was a very beautiful kid's story. And all my five-year-old took away from that was like, I want the hair fairy to come. So I was like, I don't think it works like that but like, sure. And then it's time went on like they would have these random questions to where I also realized. Like maybe it is like on their minds to where I would like slim would ask me,

like, can I get cancer? I'm like, no, it's not contagious. It's like trying to explain it. But they would ask these questions in the most random situations to where I knew that I just have to be like extra present with them and extra loving and kind of just explain things a little bit better for them. But yeah, what um, what kept you hopeful in some of your darkest moments?

Knowing that I wasn't alone like the community and knowing that there's parents out there that are and have gone through similar experiences that have made it out the other end and were fine. I guess in whatever way you want to interpret that but also just the fact that I can't give up hope if I give up hope whimsie will and I need to show up for my daughter and I need to make sure she's all right and she like she will be all right. I'm going to make sure of that and if it's not

this treatment it will be next treatment like there was there was never there was never the thought of

like giving up emotionally or physically to me. Do you have any if someone a parent is listening right now who happens to be going through something similar? Like do you have any advice that you would want to share? I just want people to talk about their emotions with anyone that they feel comfortable with. I think it can feel like a very, very isolating experience that you don't really think anyone else

people showing up for you in ways that you never thought they will. Like even by sharing that I've

had so many people reach out and offer support even though now we're in remission so it I waited until we were because I never like I couldn't stomach going through everything at the same time but having people reach out or sharing their own stories or even sharing how other people showed up for them

“I think community is so important and I want you to go seek that because there's a huge community”

out there that's so beautiful. How do you think this experience has changed your family is just like day-to-day life now? I think it's made me at least really be present and grateful for every moment that we have. It's made me really just see even the small mundane things as something that

I enjoy doing and I want to find the beauty and make extra special like even if it's setting a table

a little bit more elaborate than I wanted to or making them their favorite meal because like why can't we have mac and cheese tonight? I'll make mac and cheese, you know? So I think it really made me cherish those small moments that before I was very nonchalant about, you know? In what ways do you think this experience allowed you to see lucky in a different light?

“I've never thought about that question in that way but I think seeing how tender he is and”

so loving and supportive and like there was no an optimistic like there was not a single moment where he didn't show up for whimsy for me for the kids for everybody as like a strong partner and father and sure did he have really hard moments that we worked with together absolutely but it just showed me just how beautiful this family is that we've built together and how each and every person has a part that's so integral for all of it to work properly. Yeah, I remember you had said that you

guys had gone a couple of therapy before like how did the foundation that you guys have built really proved to be a solid foundation during this time. I like this is something that no one thinks is going to happen, right? So when we went to couples therapy I was like let's just do it to really build a strong foundation. I wanted to make sure that we have the tools because he grew up in a different way than I did and we both bring baggage that maybe we're aware of or maybe we're unaware of

and therapy gets a bad rap. Couples therapy gets a really bad rap. It's like oh you're going to

“get divorced that's why you're going to get wrong with you guys. What's wrong? Sometimes like nothing's”

wrong and you just want to have the tools to have the best life like I want to have the best life and every aspect of my life and not to me comes with work sometimes harder sometimes easier but it's work nevertheless. So we kind of learned the tools of I think one thing that was really

big for us is communication. We kind of talked at each other a lot but never with each other. So I

think that came really and really handy with this experience to where even though I might have felt whatever I felt I created the space for him to feel the way he felt and for him to communicate that with me and for us to work through that together and really be heard by each other. Oh my god I can't even imagine how integral that was to the success essentially of you being able to just like every day get through this because like you said I agree I think you hear so many stories

understandably of people losing their way with their partner because grief and trauma like you're you're trying to regulate and you're trying to be there for your child who you're putting first and so like it kind of becomes an afterthought sometimes about your partner. It kind of has to be and so I think to know that you guys were able to really try to tap into that is so beautiful yeah and I'm just also probably so beautiful for your other children to try to be my best friend

and I think that's also what really helped like he's not just my romantic partner like he truly is my best friend and I don't know what I would do without him so it almost like our friendship and our understanding of each other really helped in every aspect and our kids too like they I think having that relationship to sure do we fight sometimes or bigger or argue absolutely our relationship is not perfect like I don't think anyone's relationship with anyone is perfect but I think our kids

have seen us like really rally and they've seen us maybe having argument I think it's healthy sometimes for them to see that but then also see the resolution of it and how we find our way back to common ground like I think all of that was really important for them to see and I think

how old are you 24 yeah you have been through so much life I have and you are so impressive like

“you obviously you're now coming out with this cookbook yes homemade it comes out October 13th”

yep and it's so interesting because we've watched you on TikTok we've watched you making these concoctions but to now put it into a book and I love it because it's not just recipes you're actually kind of telling the story of like how you got to where you are today why did you feel like now was the right moment to do something like this when I started with the whole TikTok thing and my recipes and videos gained traction a lot of the comments were we need a recipe book where

the recipes so I started with my sub-stack and then just realized that I I love a good book I

really do so I I'd also never owned a cookbook which is weird I'd never owned a cookbook and then

writing this my publisher was like um so have you ever read a cookbook I'm like no she's like you need to go go get some um but through this whole process I just realized I want all of my recipes in a book that can live on someone's counter and be kind of timeless I want it to be on your counter for a very long time hold up the book I want to see it it's a whole thing promo that thing girl no it's so cute even the back like it took it's it's a labor of love something I also

need you to talk about is um there is someone that is very reoccurring in this book that you often bring up and then your grandmother oh like who are we talking about your grandmother yes um what is one of your earliest memories with her in the kitchen because I know that she inspired a lot of your love for cooking her and I were really really close she was the one that taught me how to play

“the piano how to read like she was very much involved and I just remember there were a few things”

that she would make a lot one of them was oatmeal like this cinnamon rich oatmeal I've never been able to recreate it but it was phenomenal and that was one of my first memories with her in the kitchen to where she would like wrap my hands around the spoon tell me how to stir it played it up sprinkle it with more cinnamon and she was just this warm very and then we sit on this like bank cat in her kitchen and behind us it was just like a wall of black and white cat pictures

this is crazy but yeah that was one of my first memories and she's always been like an inspiration

even like I got psychic readings once by like this religious medium it was my grandma that would pop up in all these things and she was like your grandma wanting you to know this your grandma is really proud your grandma's like looking over you when I see her standing at the piano what does

“this mean and I'm like crazy so you did see her so you did see her that's I was thinking about”

two because even you saying like oh my god I don't I still haven't been able to recreate her oatmeal like you putting finally your recipes and writing I feel like you're right so many people for so long have been like nara where's the recipe and I'm like I can't tell you but like I'm

working on it I promise but I couldn't tell anyone for two years okay what is the first recipe

you knew had to be in the book oh that's really hard because we were going through lists of recipes for so long but I knew that like my cookie or recipes had to be in it like I know you want to know how to make an Oreo let me give it to you right cheese it's you don't have to buy that anymore let's just make it so those recipes are in there but then I also cook a lot of normal meals like I need to feed my family I need to feed myself so here are some recipes that I actually like

genuine the cook on an offline for my little less they're like cheese it I know sometimes you just have like an hour to get dinner on the table let me let me tell you how to do that okay okay so you were giving us range of range I appreciate that yeah what is one recipe that took the longest to get right there's this one recipe in there that's like a sour dough bread but not with a starter oh so where it was like I'm not going to make you feed your starter for like because

okay the recipe started off is like I'm going to show you how to make your starter feed it every day like then I do like Nora I don't want to do the starter yeah so I'm like that's like two weeks of work for a loaf of bread I'm so sorry okay so this is going to help me have no starter no starter you still kind of get that same thing alone and take you like five to six out okay that sounds crazy still but like for bread that's not that long because it's also hands-off work

I've heard literally people that I like I have got to hook up for someone who has starter and know I literally know Alex you don't understand my friend she lives in Utah and she had a starter and I was at her house with my kids and I was like moaning to her I'm like I don't

and I'm like great so she sent me home with a starter I flew around airport like through

security I could take it which I don't know whether I could actually or whether the guy just knew me like he's like I see that starter I see that starter just go I don't know I would travel with it and feed it like every Airbnb I was in eat a starter water and flour I'm so stressed Nora I need to show you it's really funny I love fresh but I like I need to send you the

“bread recipe and there I also have a sandwich bread recipe like I think the baking ones took”

long actually cinnamon toast crunch cereal took so long okay so how like idiot proof is this very because I'm the idiot but here's a thing I think a lot of people have this misconception that I'm this like professional I'm a home cook honey I started cooking at the same time as you saw me starting to cook like when I posted on tech talk that's when I started like they basically feel good yeah so like so I could maybe figure something out some of these might be

a little technical but with the steps you can figure it out and then some of them are so easy to where you just throw some lentils and sweet potato and it's pot and you'll be fine so I think it's great yeah I wanted it to feel accessible to people I didn't want it to feel like oh

all you're getting is from scratch recipes no I wanted it to feel like an essential book that you

can get started with and feel comfortable with and like like my cooking takes trial and error do you know how many times I've made things like I tried making twizzlers the other day horrible didn't work out toss that so it really is trial and error we need your expertise yeah what is it I'm in a throw you a scenario and you're gonna tell me what I should make from scratch you ready yeah tell me that you want to impress at a dinner party

hmm what are you bringing I'm hosting so I'm not sorry not bring okay I mean like I will never hosted at our party I'm the girl that orders to take out and puts it on the plate but does I

made I've never done that but that sounds fun genius okay what are you making for your dinner

“party so here's the thing I love a good menu and I love a theme we have to have a theme we”

have to have a menu so let's figure out the theme and then figure out the menu after but what I do love I'm a little bias like a rose chicken here's a thing a rose chicken feels impressive if you do it right but it's very hands-off it's like one of the easiest like that's the dinner I make when I'm like I'm no idea what to make it's a rose chicken because you like do it pop in the oven and then you do a bunch of sides I like things that you could prep the night before and then just

plate the next day done okay your kids come home from school absolutely starving what are we making bread and jam bread and jam that's good answer you're trying to seduce your future husband yeah steak and fries with like a sexy like peppercorn sauce oh yeah okay you need to pick me up comfort meal after a really tough day beef pie okay you're in laws are unexpectedly coming over in 30 minutes what are you making something American let me tell you that maybe a no tacos tacos my

dad and love loves his little tacos okay so I mix some tacos but it's so different like are you making your own tacos seasoning well what do you mean like mixing spices together oh is that what you just take like cumin and whatever and like put it all to what do you do oh I get like the you know the taco packs from the grocery store oh that's an option yeah but I mean tacos seasoning is chill you just have to have you have your spices and you throw it together and have you thought

about what yeah well I said idiot in the kitchen oh so that's fine I could just kind of you can just make yourself well of course like make your seasoning like dry the bell pepper and like grind in make it really good on the beef to make it have that little like zest oh you just like okay you probably have a rack of spices in your kitchen right and you just throw them together whatever makes sense for like the cuisine you're going for and then I do love a good like I like a good

sweet and hot thing so I make my own salsa's I also have this really good recipe in my book actually I'm not trying to plug but it um it's like a roasted pork situation pork tacos with that two different sauces and you can put the pork on in the morning and put it in your slow cooker and

“then not think about it until dinner that's what I'm gonna try and then we could either make your own”

tortillas if you want to or you can just store store box store box oh yeah so we're not getting

grocery store you know what or you do the tortillas and buy the salsa which one do you think

which one's more impressive for me how are you making your own we have so I have so many questions cornflower is it cornflower masa herina yeah a little bit of water we what do you order for

“take out hmm is this controversial no I I love a good take out I really do I think sometimes”

that there's something so beautiful about someone else cooking for me I mean I do weaker you like cooking in your household I try to cook every night sometimes like the other day my chickens got eaten by a fox and I was making chicken and I was like there's no way so I got take out if there's a little it felt a little barbaric yeah I couldn't work it oh wow so it depends but I usually order take out that I don't really want to make myself so it's Indian food Thai food Vietnamese food

I would never order something I could make like burg ordering a burger for take out on postmates

criminal activity so it could be easy yeah that would ever sometimes it's a necessity right but for me personally I I I I you hate to see me coming if I pulled up my postmates order you're gonna be like oh yeah I would actually be like let's just tweak this how about we do Indian instead okay so that that I would much rather or okay last one you're over halfway through your pregnancy it's 10 PM asking for a friend suddenly you need something you want to

make something yummy what are we making like how much time you got an hour oh that changes the game they're oh 30 minutes I would make okay I don't like this but I know Americans love their chocolate chip cookies I would make chocolate chip cookies and then I would make well I would probably have ice cream that I made in the freezer but you you postmates some vanilla ice cream and then you put your ice cream sandwich together hot chocolate chip cookie but like not hot

because then it will crumble but like warm vanilla ice cream in the middle another chocolate chip cookie and you press it together get yourself an ice cream sandwich and if you're feeling fancy you melt some chocolate and like dip it and let it harden you do that I love you I am so gonna do that oh that's a good one yeah oh I'm craving that right now oh it's good stuff and like you don't have to like spoon or do the whole thing it's like an ice cream sandwich and you can also prep those in

advance and put them in your freezer so you can just pull them out and you get like the perfect vanilla ice because sometimes when you buy the pre-made stuff you're like the vanilla ice cream sucks or the cookie sucks but you can get it the way you want to get it you're blowing my mind right now yeah it's it's like talking to an expert and I'm like this child that's like I'm trying to absorb

“some stuff is going over your pregnancy craving because that's what I want to know okay so in the”

beginning obviously I was like nauseous I wasn't craving any right right right then I started craving in and out a classic a classic and so when you're like oh ordering burgers I'm like no no I'm going it and out well because that's okay fair fair fair fair that's fair we'll take the off the list because that was my craving okay fair but I would want it weirdly in a lettuce wrap yeah same and then I also wanted to get a flying Dutchman you're me they're so one Nora that was me so good

and then tell me yes of course and you have the same order then so that was me and then I started craving donuts oh which was taking me down the go weird path and I was like every morning my husband would come to my bedside and I would say like bring me a donut and a little coffee and I was like so happy so that was good I love that dream and so I've gone through like some weird phases like it it's kind of hit or miss sometimes but for right now I'm like I'm really really liking

my ice cream right now so this is why it's really hitting no no I'm not making it okay perfect you're going to make them made ice cream I'm like Nora do you know what's really good though if you love an ice cream is the Jenny's birthday cake ice cream my knees that I will I saw oh okay

“so that's what I'm on and but right now I don't know if you did this when you're pregnant but like”

I need a lot of different tastes kind of happening yes so my bull Nora is like mint chip then vanilla then chocolate then strawberry then I have some cookies and cream then I have some salted caramel absolutely and I need all the tastes yep yep yep yeah and then I just lay there and I'm like you're like okay but I could only eat like three bites because I'd feel so full so quick immediately I have so many questions after this is because I'm having issues with pregnancy pillows

and like I'm trying to do now yeah so we'll talk offline yeah but um you I wrote something down yeah we're rounding out our conversation now if we're having girl talk yeah we're in front of cameras okay you talked a lot about wanting to build something that lasts yes what does that mean to you

one thing that I've always strive for is longevity I want the business and whatever I'm creating

the rest of my life like I'm gonna grow and evolve I'm only 24 I don't know what the next 10

“years have in store for me but all I know is I want to be working and building my business and growing”

to where I I enjoy so many different things like obviously I love my social presence I love cooking

so writing the cookbook felt natural I ended up being in a movie where I had that whole experience

to where now I want to do acting so I'm taking acting classes I also want to build my own brand

“you know well we'll get into that I could win that time comes but I think people are really”

gonna love it it's gonna be really fun so we're working on that and then just kind of figuring

out TV that space just I feel like the world is my oyster and like the most grateful and humble way I could possibly say that because I'm so grateful to have the community that has put me in the spot to be able to really execute my vision and I'm so grateful for it and really excited for the future I mean I'm so happy that I got to talk to you because all the way back to the beginning

“of our conversation just talking about the misconceptions and the labels and I think it's just”

like another testament to what you said earlier just like why can't we all get more comfortable with celebrating women who are multifaceted and have drive in multiple different areas and how about this are thriving in multiple different areas of their life and instead of that being a threat and something that we want to ignore or downplay let's celebrate it celebrate it we should all just help each other and like really just uplift each other that's all I want to do

no I'm so happy I got to meet you I really appreciate you also I know we went through so many different topics and I know that so many of them were extremely personal things for making it a safe space of course now thank you for coming on Colored Attie