Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend

David Oyelowo Returns

10h ago1:02:2111,198 words
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Actor David Oyelowo feels Conan-ified about being Conan O’Brien’s friend.   David joins Conan once more to discuss his accidental introduction to the stage, nearly getting slapped by Oprah while filmi...

Transcript

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[Music]

Hi, my name is David Aiyara and I feel...

[Music] Konanified. Nice! About being Konan, a Brian's friend. That is a very expensive process to be Konanified. [Laughter] Very few people can imagine the most expensive spa weekend. [Laughter]

[Music] Hey there, welcome to Konan, a Brian needs a friend. My name, Konan and Brian. Sonoma Sessian is joining us too. Yes.

And Matt Groely is still out on paternity leave, but we are joined by David Hopping, hello, the assistant who replaced Sonoma and made her but a dim memory. Oh, did Sonoma get full celebrity now? No, not memory. Why don't you remember, who are you?

Oh, man. Listen, I, this, when this episode drops, it's going to be tax time. And I've been told that this is a dreadful thing to talk about, which makes me want to talk about it. No!

Yeah, so tax time, Sonoma, you got your papers in order?

No, I just remembered when we were talking about this, I said, oh no, I got to send my account and all my stuff.

Yeah, well, how hard is that?

It's a lot, people. Do you have like a big shoe box that's filled with papers? No, that's the old one. Why are you laughing because I do all of the papers that are... Email, or mail to me, I just stick them in a thing.

Okay. Okay. So yeah, it's like a shoe box, but I don't even like, receipts. Okay. I don't even, I might receive.

Okay. I don't do any of that. All right. So you just have some papers. Yeah.

Got to get them to the accountant. Yeah, like, we, like you probably did. That's a fun story. Oh, I don't touch anything. I live in a bubble.

I'm a, you know, I'm an LLC, I'm an off-shore illegal company. I do, I mean, the papers get moved around, you know, things are purchased to sold without my knowledge.

And I'm just sitting in a geodesic dome covered in yakbutter.

Going, oh, it's happening. What's happening outside? What's happening?

Um, David, I don't even want to know what your story is.

I don't still need to do mine, too. Okay. Where's the behind? Okay. But what do you have?

Do you have papers or sheets papers? Yeah. So you employ me. Yeah. And so then I have to, I get those papers.

I don't even know that. Do you get paid for what you do? I get paid. You, you pay me. That's insane.

I don't pay you. Accace less corporation. Yes. Again, I don't know what's happening. Um, Eduardo.

What's your story? How do you get your taxes done? On time. But who does your tax? Oh, what did it?

Who does your taxes? Do you want me to give, like, a plug? Oh, what? Can you just give an account? I'm a guy.

Yeah, I have a guy. Because you, my dad does his own. Yeah, Fred.

There's no way he's not breaking the law.

Oh, dear, you came from another land. He doesn't know about our American ways. A lot of people do their own taxes. I know. But what do you think of the boxes?

I know. But come on. Is he on me up and up your pops? Yeah, Gil is off. How dare you?

What is your issue with my dad? Well, no. You just, Joe, as you can know, my dad. Nice. I love your dad.

I love your dad. I love your dad. I love your dad. Gil is the man. But I just curious, you know, he came to this land, America.

And I'm curious if he's familiar with all of our ways. And he's paying taxes. It's all going well. He's been here for almost 60 years. He takes a while to get used to stuff.

You know, that's all. Oh, you're awful. You're awful. You're smiling. You love this version of you.

This is your real you. Hey, hello. The real you. This is it. No, listen, I, what's this now?

I know. I'm not only doing nothing to say. I'm trying to hide behind son of his hair. So you don't look at me. No, but who does your taxes play?

Okay. My mom does my taxes. Your mom just takes my mom. My Mary Blair bless her heart. Does my taxes is sweet.

Um, and so I'm sorry. It's a very, it's a very, very emotional thing between the two of us. I, she demands to do it. It's, it's back and forth. I don't know.

She does. She does. She does. She does. She does.

She absolutely demands to do it. She's on the phone with you saying. Okay. How can you spend this much on a spider mate?

Flash.

Did you know what? She actually is.

But because you buy could go away.

Wait, hold it. Wait a minute. You don't silence me on camera. I mean, you take the punishment. Oh, my God.

She's supposed to talk to your mom. Yes. About all the shit you buy. The video games. The figurines.

Right. The sword. I see. Yes. Yes.

Does your mom, and your mom, then your mom goes over. Yes. Yes. Does. Yes.

Here's the thing. You don't understand. She's into it. She's into it. I get to talk to her about it.

She does not say, oh, you bought a spider mate costume.

She's like, how many spider mate costumes can we write off?

She's fully into it. Wait. She asked me. She asked me. Can you write off a spider mate costume?

Because I work for you. What are you talking about? We're in a minute. Because you work for me. Yes.

You're allowed to have the government pay for part of your spider.

No. No. The whole thing. No. We're on it.

You're allowed to have the same idea. You're way mean, guilt for fraud. This is it. Yes. I'm sorry.

I think you and Jill are guilty for fraud. It's all my board. This is how good my mom is. She, I was going to go to the Renaissance. For instance, she's like, maybe she'd buy another sword.

We could write that off. And I was like, wait a minute. Wait. Wait. Wait.

Wait. Wait a minute. I think we have a lawyer. It's really not in today. But he could join us.

I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have. Listen. Why? The fact that you work for Conan a boy.

It doesn't mean that I just bought 900 pounds of silly string.

And I don't want to pay for it. If I can get you to talk about the podcast and I bring it. Get you to talk about it.

Get you to talk about it.

Get you to talk about it. Who has to give a puppet master? I'm not. I'm just saying, I'm the warm tongue. I'm warm tongue.

I whisper in your ear. You did talk about it. I'm just saying, I'm warm tongue. You did talk about it. Who has talked about it?

Who has talked about it? Who has, I managed to bring in his sword two years in a row. And his new axe. That means they're in Blair. This wasn't an idea that you thought was good

for the podcast. You thought I've got to write this fucker off. I came in and I jammed it in the conversation. Conan be fucked. Whether it's good or not.

And then you walk away. And Uncle Sam takes it up the old star's finger. He and Yang. It can be both. I can write it off and it can be good content.

I don't know if we talk about something on the podcast. It's the right off. That's one. It's part of my job. I needed it for my job.

I got to write it off. That Hillary does take it to going. The backstreet boys take it. It's right off. You should talk to my mom.

She would say, right? She can eat. You are easily write it off. I'm a therapist. Is she even an accountant?

No. She's a therapist. She uses turbo tax. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're your mom. Is it even a tax? No.

Your mom is not an accountant. No. No. And she's actually bad.

Mom is insisting on doing it and then she just hires turbo tax.

She doesn't hire it. And says my son just bought seven Zina Warrior Princess. Just wait. That's right. And we want our cash back.

That's correct. Yes. That's exactly right. This is a dime. This is a dime.

This is a dime. This is no. There's just. We are. We are.

We are just rotten with fraud. There's just fraud. Creating this whole. And I'm exposing it right now. We're all going to get on it.

But it's not fraud. If it's good content. We're making a good. I haven't listened to this thing. I don't know if it's good content.

I can't. We're okay. I want you investigated. I'm going to see to that. We're sharing this down the corner.

Adam Adam. Adam. Adam. Adam. Adam.

Adam. Adam. I don't know what you're doing. You're supposed to be running this thing. You're the podcast whisper.

And you're. I feel really. I'm offended by Blake. I'm really offended. I really feel like we've all been taking advantage.

It comes in with this thing. I'm just trying to help the podcast. Oh, help the podcast. The podcast is in Juggernaut. It's things that you can't beat this thing with a stick.

And then you come in here with. Your princess galactica helmet. And we're supposed to get you out the hook. Unbelievable. It's such a scam.

Unbelievable. They're. They're. They don't have enough shooters. But this guy has.

Zena warrior princess swords. Turbo. My favorite thing ever. He's bringing. Okay.

You've brought her so many times. She was brought to my. Lucy Wallace was brought to my house once at a party by someone on staff. We brought Lucy Wallace. And I was like, what is Lucy Wallace doing here?

I love her. She's great. Frank smiley broader to my apartment. And he was like, look. I brought Lucy Wallace.

And I'm like, I don't know her. Well, you'd know her now. Anyway, that got you off the hook.

My Lucy Wallace story.

Okay. Good Lord. My guest today.

Starting such movies as Selma Lincoln and the Butler.

Now you can see him in the new film. Newborn. This man is a delight. He's a massive talent and a real joy. And I'm so happy he's back on the podcast.

David. Oh, yellow. Welcome.

Every time I think of you, it's, at least it's good thoughts.

Oh, that's so nice of you. It's, it's true. I can return that favor because not long ago our book or pilot Davis brought up your name and said that you might be coming back. And I immediately said, I love that guy.

You are, you are so funny. And we just had a joyous time in our last interview. So I was so happy you could come back. Yes. Really thrilled to have you.

Thank you. Thanks for having me again. And you're in a good mood. You came in. You know, I asked you about your family.

You said everything's going well. Yes.

I told you that my eldest son proposed his girlfriend last night.

Last night. And I just watched a video of it. Yeah. Which then I reposted. No.

Yeah. I got excited. Damn it. Yeah. And guess what?

I put ads on it. Oh, you monetized it. I monetized it. I monetized it.

And I'm making a lot of money right now.

I'm just impressed you. You had a repost. No. No. It's a really beautiful moment.

And I, you must be overjoyed. I can't even begin to tell you. It just brought back so many memories because I proposed to his mom when she was 19. And I was 21. Wow.

Well, we were babies. They're 23 and 24. My son's 24. And it just brought back all the memories of proposing to my wife. And watching this video, I was on a plane from New York last night.

And my wife sent me a text, which came through as an eye message. And then she sent the video and it wouldn't download. Oh, my god. And I couldn't get on the Wi-Fi. And it was just, it was interminable.

Just saying downloading, downloading, downloading. You know, just to not be able to.

And then it finally came through.

And I just, and you know, there's something about the oxygen on planes. That makes you more emotional. And so, like, watching. I just, the fields were just roiling. So I am over the moon.

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I've heard people claim that it means you're related to kings,

but then you walk around Ireland and you go, no. The internet says little wolf or little hound is what Conan means. Oh, okay.

I've never heard that before.

I think someone just put that in. It's a little wolf. It's not a wolf. Is this correct? Is this correct?

Your father had tribal markings? Yes. Is it your Uber? Yes. Is it your Uber?

Yes. The Europe of Tribes. Tribal marks on both cheeks. And he had the word baller written on his stomach. And this was done with blades when you were okay.

I know. Really intense. But I grew up with my dad telling me that the reason he had these four slashes on his cheeks was because he had four to tie up.

And I completely bought it. And it was incredibly useful at school. Every time my dad came to pick me up. Because anyone who was messing with me,

I was like, "You see that on my dad's face?"

Tie up. That was tight. Did you want that man mad at you? Exactly. Incredible.

Yeah, yeah. But we then moved to Nigeria. And I got picked up at the airport by all of my uncles. And literally I was like, "Did everyone fight tigers?" Like, "What is going on?"

That tiger got around. It just went rampant on my family. This tiger. Yeah. I jumped in to save your dad.

And I jumped in to save him. And I jumped in to save him. So where were you born? Were you born in Oxford? I was born in Oxford in England.

And I was there till the age of two. So I don't really remember it. Then I moved to London. And I was there till the age of six. And then we moved to Lagos, Nigeria.

And I was there till 13. Before we moved back to London. I've been to Oxford twice. And I just went for the second time. I want to say about five, six months ago.

And it is hard not to feel airy a diet. I was walking around in that environment. And people have asked me what it's like. And I say, it is the closest thing to Hogwarts on earth. That I have encountered.

I've never seen anything like that.

And it just got so much history. I know Cambridge is the same thing. You walk around these places that have been around for 800 years. I don't know how many. And you think about all the insane talent that walked out streets.

I think that's why my dad really wanted to be.

It just to be around it, which is why I ended up being born there. And he decided he was going to go into the medical profession. Until as he tells it, he realized he had an apoplectic fear of blood. And so I can't remember if it was a day that they were supposed to be dissecting a cadava or something like that. And yeah, he was out cold.

That's not unlike my dad who went to medical school. And then I think late in medical school. Yeah. It was around, you know, patience and blood. Yes.

I want to be an laboratory. Yeah. Yeah. And he did great work there. But I think he wasn't up for that part.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. To find the thing, it is that you truly love and that it loves you back. Because I think Elizium, my dad took a while to sort of. I don't know that he ever actually found the thing that he really did.

Because he, he would try a lot of different things. Well, he, he, he tried medical profession decided in like blood. So I wanted to be an architect. Couldn't really draw. [ Laughter ]

He was like, but he hated houses. [ Laughter ] Fear of houses. [ Laughter ]

So yeah, I mean, you know, the, the happiest he became ultimately was,

he and my mom ran a sort of mini cab from in London. So that yeah, just driving people around was the thing he sort of became happy with.

Also, I've always thought if I needed to pick up a second job,

I wouldn't mind being an Uber driver because I love talking to people so much.

And I love trying to find out what's going on in their lives.

Yes. And filming them when they don't know I'm filming them. [ Laughter ] What? We'll get into that part later.

[ Laughter ] That's a good time. But you know, it's funny, it's your career. Your start as an actor was as all the best things are a little bit accidental. Because you said there was a, I've heard that there was a,

or read that there was a subway strike happening. And you think that this contributed to you becoming an actor. And I'm curious, how does that happen? Well, because I was at this youth theatre group that I'd only attended because I've fancy this girl who, you know, I don't know that she knew it.

And I just kept on going for her. But I was very shy. And I, we were rehearsing a play.

And I would always just sit, you know,

hoping I would maybe be in the chorus or something so that I could keep seeing this girl.

And then one day there was a tube strike. A subway strike. And the three guys who were being touted to play the lead were all stuck on trains. And so the director said to me, "Oh, David, just read in and, you know, while we wait for the guys to arrive." For the real actors to come.

Literally. And I very much thought of them as that. And I had the page. And I guess I just did it the way I thought it should be done. And I finished this speech and the room just went completely silent.

And I thought, "Oh, it was that bad." It was that bad that these people are speechless with how bad it was. And then three days later I was cast in the lead of this play. And although I didn't understand the significance of it at the time, this youth theatre was that the national theatre,

like the Royal National Theatre of Great Britain on the South Bank in London.

And so the very first thing I did was playing the lead

on what was then the Cotsyslow stage is called the Duffman Theatre now. The national theatre. And yeah, it literally happened because that day those guys didn't turn up. Wow. If I had been one of those guys, I would have suspected that you messed with the tube.

I did, I did it. I absolutely did. That's how mine worked. You know, you're down there. You're like switching the tracks.

Yeah, that was made. Yeah, that was made. I knew a guy.

You know, I've always noticed that it's not a rule.

But it happens about 95% of the time that people from the United Kingdom actors are also sort of charming storytellers. And I have not found that to be true in other places. Someone can be a terrific actor. But it's almost like it's something in the water or it's something that's prized and respected

that in Britain, you know, Scotland, Wales where you have to be or Ireland as well.

You must be a good actor, but you must also be a rock and tour. And it's almost like that is taught when I know it's not. But I think it's very much the rule. It actually is taught because you're around these actors who there is a tradition of it actually. And as a young actor, the what you're looking for is to sit at the feet of a Judy denge or as I did.

And with Judy denge or Alan Bates or Ray Fines or Kenneth Branagh. You know, these are these are people I literally had the opportunity to work with. Like I did a film called as you like it with Kenneth Branagh. And I did a show with Judy Denge. I did a show with Alan Bates. I worked with actors who were all inspiring when you were on stage with them.

They had mastered the craft. And what I mean by that is when you get on the role Shakespeare theatre stage in front of, I think that stage is about 100, well, 1,500 people or at the on the Olivier, which I think is maybe 1,200 people. When you see someone being nervous in the wings,

someone who you watched in the rehearsal room playing with language like Shakespeare, that is 4 to 5 times hour vocabulary and finding their way to the truth of it, finding their way to the meaning of it and finding different interpretation, time and time again and then watching them nervous in the wings before they go on and become supernatural on that stage.

When you're around that enough, it gets on you. And then when you're with them after the fact and they're talking about when they

Were on stage with Gil Good or Olivier.

Oh, because there is something and this is one of the British tradition.

There is it is loaded. It is something that is celebrated. And it is a tradition that is very much outside of financial remuneration. The gift is the doing of it.

And I think that in and of itself creates this aura of camaraderie

and being part of a tradition that has been ongoing. And so there is something and I said, so potentially saying this, but there is something celestial about, I remember being 21, 22, being in a rehearsal room with a guy who had been on stage with Olivier. And just going, OK, just soak it all in.

And what I mean is it gets on you. And what then happens is as you climb the ranks of being a spare carrier, playing decoratasse like I did in Anthony and Cleopatra with my seven lines. And then within about three years, I was playing Henry VI in that same theatre. You go from halt who goes there to literally, giving these incredible solar

Louise speeches that you will never conquer.

Every night is basically an exercise in humility because it will kick your butt every night. It's why that playwright especially Shakespeare has lasted over 400 years. He tapped into humanity in a way that I don't think any writer has done before and ever will.

And so it's the Everest for actors. And so when you have that and then you combine it with an audience. And what I mean by celestial is that there is this vibration where they start

telling you if and you must have this as a comedian, they start telling you if you're

telling the truth. And the moment there is fracture in that you feel it instantaneously. And if you do that night, after night, after night, after night, it becomes muscle memory. We've often around each other since we crawled out of the sea. And we pick up on this, you could call it electrical.

You could say there's a biochemical reason for it or it's just mystical. And you don't want to think about it too much. But we know when someone's tapped into the truth. It's why I think juries, you know, they can make mistakes. But overall, you'd say let's get a bunch of, let's get a bunch of your peers

and have them listen. And together, they'll have an intelligent, a common intelligence. You've said it. It's truth. Yeah.

I think is the thing. Yeah. And it's why anyone's favorite actors have probably at some point been on the state.

I truly believe that because you, you have had the opportunity to be around

the truth enough that that is now, as I say, muscle memory, that becomes applicable to filmwork where everything is artificial. You know, it's a room like this with contraptions like this. And it's, and you're supposed to be in love with someone you met that morning. And it is, it is an exercise in artificial.

But if you know what it feels like to tell the truth under those circumstances or describing, you sort of have more access to it. I just think, I mean, I'm thinking about the people that you've worked with, not just on the stage in London, but in your filmwork, you've worked with giants in the industry. And you know, you said that you worked with Dame Judy Dungeon.

I don't believe I've met her. Someone now will come up with a video of me interviewing her. I'm serious.

This happens to me all the time, or someone will pass, and I'll say a shame I never met them,

and someone will show me seven videos of me talking to them over a 15-year period. Wow, is this what I have to look forward to. Oh, the minute you, the minute you go, I mean, I would love to meet her. 1998. Oh, wow.

Alright, well, she made no impression. Um, they've always heard, I mean, she's spectacular, but I've also heard that she's just lovely. So lovely and funny, very, very funny, but what was so surprising about her is she said, I can't bear to watch myself. And she's one of those actors.

Yeah. You can't bear to watch her. But the thing that was really surprising is she said, I learn my lines and I try to forget them, so that I am completely fresh and present in the scene. And I thought, how, how do you trick yourself into, like, and I was in a scene with her,

and I saw this thing that is happening between you and I right now. Right now. Yeah. Whereby you don't know what I'm going to say next, and it is affecting your brain chemistry, and a way whereby it's precipitate to you.

It's a real hitting the ball back and forth.

Correct.

And she has maintained the discipline of being able to hold it close enough,

but hold it lightly enough that she's constantly alive and I just thought,

whoa, that is so brave and why she's so brilliant. Now, you do hold a distinction of being slapped by Oprah. Yes. I think we should talk about that. My claim to be you guys.

Yeah. I mean, I mean, as part of a scene, I've been slapped by Oprah just in life. Yeah. Just for existing. No, no, I tried to cut.

It was in eight items or last line. And I tried to cut in front of her. That'll do it. And this was up in your scene of Barbara and man, she packs a wall. And I had it cut in and mad respect.

But what was that like? Well, you know what? This was this was Jacob phone called the Butler. Yeah. And we were doing this scene, and it was a scene, and it was a top scene,

because Sydney Poetry is literally my hero. Yeah. And I, it was just a scene where my character was being very shall we say uncouth about Sydney Poetry. And as a result, she quite rightly decides to give me what for.

Now, of course, in the film, she's supposed to slap her son in the world of like cameras. Action all about. Yeah. Don't actually slap me. Now, with each take, she got more and more into it.

[ Laughter ] And she has probably reserves of anger about things in her life. Yeah. She watched it get out.

I could feel her dragging things that were, and I think that's all the truth.

Yeah. And what was happening is, you know, so initially, you know, I couldn't feel any wind as she, as she went. And, and it started like, I was like, each time she does this. So, I could feel she was getting ever closer each and every time.

And the very last time, she, she got the end of my nose. Oh, okay. It wasn't a full slap, but it was the moment when I went, I think we got it. I think we got it, guys. [ Laughter ]

I'm just gonna mention it. I'm just gonna mention it. I don't know if this could you. She has deep pockets. [ Laughter ]

There's a lot of money there. I saw I've heard. Yeah.

I've heard my nose, I've never, I don't think I can act again.

I use the tip of my nose a lot. You know, and then she's living at the motel six, and you're living in her house. This is where you go. You go straight for the ability. This is America.

This is America. And that's all we do is do the shit out of each other. Sooner damage. All the billboards. You can call sweet James.

Sweet James. Yeah, that's the guy. That is, oh, his billboards are everywhere. Sweet James. Yeah.

It was funny you mentioned that because we did something The lovely Sophie Turner was gonna be in our show. And I've always had a good time talking with her, and she was coming on, and I read the notes, and they said she might want to try something

where she, it involves her lightly slapping you, and I told her just before the show. So this is really on me. I said, those things are going to work. You really have to go for it.

So I told her, if it's going to work, you have to really go for it. You can't kind of have to do it. Right. And I'm not thinking.

So we get to that part of the show, and it's on tape, but I'm standing up, and Sophie just lets me have it. She's a very strong woman. Yeah.

And I took a shot at the killer first,

and then she hit me. You can see I'm just, I went to a different place for a while. For a while. I traveled through time, and met many famous people, and then I came back, all in an instant.

But, um, but he gave me some context, it was it for a bit.

I was like, oh, I think she called it to keyless laughs.

Yeah. But I don't know how it's a game, because it's just me having something to do with it. And then her punching the shit out. Yeah, you just take a shot at the killer in the person

to slap you. And that's it. What a fun game. She loves the bottle. I agree to it.

I saw it in the notes, and I said, oh, and if you're going to, if we do get to that, I like to keep it kind of loose out there. I said, if we do get to that, and it starts to happen. If you do that, it's not going to work. You have to let me have it.

And God bless her. She was like, alright. She went for me. He told me. Yeah.

So, this is because you wanted to sue her. Is this why you? Of course. That was the plan. Unfortunately.

I wanted to watch. That's why I read she's this shit now. (laughter) No, it was, it is something to be in that moment where you're hit. Which doesn't happen.

Were you ever punched at all in as a kid or were you ever in a fight?

Yeah.

Yeah. I went to boarding school in Nigeria.

And I remember getting into a few fights.

It is. It's nothing until you experience being punched in the face. Yeah. Nothing can prepare. The ringing.

Yeah. The flash of white. You see. You know, you're saying yep, yep, like you've been punched in the face. Oh, yeah.

I was, yeah. Punched really hard in the face. Really? It was a mugging. By social media.

What was that? That's all. It was a mugging. What was that? What was that?

It was again. It was Sophie Turner. And she was robbing me. But she years after she was on the show. And I had sooner into destitution.

I'm just like, I want my money back. She's looking to kill you. Yeah. You kind of deserve it. No.

I think I was 18. And I was walking around the north end of Boston. And some kids wanted money. Oh, boy. I said no.

And they said, why not? And I said, I don't feel like it. And just as I said, like it. As I hit the T, I saw all the white. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Then they had to rebuild my nose. She used to scratch it.

Did you go the blood when you suddenly, your own blood goes down your throat?

Oh, I had the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was like a sprinkler. I think I had a sprinkler system.

No. It's standing dark now. I was fine. I bare no emotional wounds. Right.

So the guy who's clearly packed with emotional wounds. But what I did remember is they had to reshape my nose. And I had the whole black eyes. And I was bandaged up for a while. And I'd be, there were bars in the neighborhood where I lived.

And I'd be walking home from, you know, to my house. And guy standing in the doorway as a bars.

I always thought this was, you know, something you just see in movies.

But they, to a one would all step out and go. How's the other guy look? Wow. And I'd say the other guy looks just fun. [LAUGHTER]

[LAUGHTER] Not a square. No. He looks. He's got the duest skin.

[LAUGHTER] He's, you know, just.

I mean, he looks better than he did before.

[LAUGHTER] [MUSIC PLAYING] Well, I want to congratulate you because I watched your film, Newborn. Oh. And I very much enjoyed it.

And it was not what I expected, which is rare. When I watched a movie, I think. Oh, I can see where this is going. And I was completely surprised by how this unfolded.

It's very powerful movie.

And you, am I right? This movie was made a what? Was it made a while ago? Yeah. Yeah.

It was made a little while ago. And it was one of those, the alchemy of making movies, man. It's, yeah. We made it with a company that went into insolvency. And so we had to get the film back.

And you know, all that. And then there was a stiff, right to strike. Yeah. All this stuff before we're now getting the movie out. But weirdly, I've had so many instances like this.

Like, somewhat took seven years to get the movie. Is that true? Yeah, yeah, yeah. From when I first audition for it to-- And it's amazing to see when you see the finished product,

you think, well, this was obvious. Yeah. And it wasn't. I mean, if you, you know, when you walk out of them, theater after seeing Selma, if someone said to you,

well, that took seven years from beginning to you think, well, that-- No, this just looks like a slam dunk. Right. Exactly. And it was the opposite.

And I watched five directors come and go before it ended up being able to win. I watched that film go from Lyndon Johnson being the central character, too. It finally being--

Dr. King, as it always should have been.

And to your point, you know, I truly believe these things-- Because I'm a big believer in the power of storytelling. And I do think often the ones that really go on to be impactful. They sometimes take time to come to fruition in the right way.

And what happened with newborn is that through the course of this protracted journey to the now that we're in, we got to go back and do reshoots. And really analyze what it is we wanted to do with the film. It's about my character, Chris newborn, who in two or seven years of solitary confinement. And he's dealing with the detrimental effects of that mentally.

And he's trying to reconnect with his family after coming out with his wife and his son. And that's very delicate, you know, because I talked to a few people who had dealt with that reality as specifically a guy called Richard Rosario, who had been wrongfully incarcerated for 20 years. Seven of which were in solitary confinement.

And the effects of it.

I mean, after 13 days studies have shown you're never the same again.

Because it's 23 hours a day in a nine by six cell with fluorescent lights on all the time.

And what that does to the mind, the psyche, the soul, is it's torture.

What is the possible reason that lights would have to be on all the time other than to torture you?

No rehabilitative effect of having lights on all the time. It is the opposite of rehabilitation, you know, and that's the point. It is punitive, just. It is purely punitive. And so it's the height of punishment.

Anything and everything to make your life uncomfortable is what solitary confinement is. And you say, perfectly there, it is the opposite of rehabilitation, which supposedly is what we're supposed to be doing with prisons.

People don't know is that 80,000 people men, women and children are in solitary confinement today in America.

And so in order to tell this story in a way that wasn't just dark and challenging and traumatic, we chose to see what life was like for this man post, the incarceration and how he goes on a journey to trying to reconnect with his family while dealing with his trauma. So it's a psychological thriller, but, you know, it's that's wrapped around a love story. You know, this guy trying to get back to his wife, trying to get back to his son. I thought of this analogy, which is they've, it was proven long ago that if I think they found this out at the end of World War II and soldiers were liberating some of the concentration camps that the first instinct is to give all these people who are malnourished tons of food, which can kill them.

Because their bodies have been living with almost no food for years at a time and you need to start very slowly and then slowly raise the calorie count in order for people.

That's this movie to me that a very good job of showing me that if someone's been in solitary confinement for seven years and then they're out in their free and they're allowed to be out in the world and walking down the street and being outside. It's overload, it's absolute sensory overload and traumatic. Yeah. And so things that we think of as, well, this would be lovely. I'd love to be with my wife and my son at a cabin in the woods wandering around this beautiful country side.

What a lovely time. That's horrifying. Yeah. And that came across really thoroughly in the movie. I thought this is, this is a story I haven't seen before, for someone's in an environment that I would love.

Right. And to them, it's an nightmare.

Well, it's so perfectly put the kind of, because it's also about the things we take for granted.

And how desperately, as human beings, we need connection. Like human beings are designed for connection. And the ultimate way you dehumanize someone is to extricate them from human connection. I mean, we all, to a certain extent, felt that during the pandemic. And that was one of the most debilitating things, is this feeling of lack of connection to other people.

But, you know, that's exactly it. Him trying to reconnect, having been denied connection for so long with the very people that essentially their existence is what kept him going. Yeah. So he wants nothing more than to reconnect with his wife. His son has become non-verbal because of some of the trauma,

she sees in his mother due to what has happened to his father. So, you know, all of that is happening. And you can't tell what's in his mind. And, you know, what's perceived in what is real. And that's where the psychological thriller aspect comes in.

Yeah. But, you know, what we also hoped to do is to tap into how we can all relate to feelings of isolation, whether it's loneliness, whether it's, you know, in your own head, whether it's, you know, child of trauma, whatever that may be. And, what is the path to healing for that?

I believe it's love. And, you know, Richard Rosario, the extraordinary thing his wife, stuck by him for the 20 years he was incarcerated. And, her name is Manova. And, and it's extraordinary to see him now 10 years after he's, he's been released,

still dealing with a lot of what he dealt with. But, it is extraordinary to see how love in relation to that thing you talk about, of how you slowly bring someone back as opposed to just giving them a full meal. Sort of got this guy to a place where, you know, he can now stand up in front of people and talk about his experience.

You know, I was watching the film and your performances extraordinary,

as your performances always are.

And then I was thinking about your quote, "accident getting into acting, you go to the acting class because you, you have a crush on this girl,

You just want to tag along.

And I, I look, I think, wait, something isn't right here because someone who can

act at that level must know when they're a kid.

They have this inside of them. That could not have been a complete surprise to you. It was really, it was. But, and, and this is where, gosh, if it, as, especially as an artist, if there is someone who sees in you what you haven't seen in yourself yet,

that is, that is just the greatest blessing. And often, Oprah talks about this. I've heard a lot of artists, whether they be actors or musicians. That music teacher or that drama teacher or that literature, that goes hold on you.

Yeah. Yeah. There's something going on here. And I had that in a teacher called Jill Foster, who, you know, I, I continued to do drama, but, but it was baked into me by my parents that

it's not, that's not a proper job. That's just not what this is going to be. And I, I idolized my father and so therefore it wasn't going to be that. But this teacher, who I remember her, I was trusting me outside of a tube station.

When I was all set to go and do a law degree and saying, David, I wouldn't say this to any of my other students. I think you could do acting professionally. Well. And, and I, and I, and I didn't even know what that entailed,

and she went, well, have you considered drama school? I said, I don't know what that is. And she introduced me to what drama schools are like. She helped me with my auditions.

And that's how I ended up, well, getting a scholarship to go to Lambda.

And, you know, the, the full circle of this, because within the last month, I went to see my son at the drama school. I went to playing in an adaptation of the play that I met my wife. That's crazy. Doing.

And I, it made me think all the way back to Jill Foster that what she gave to me, but we have advocacy, is now having a generational impact.

Not just for actors, I will never meet my own son.

And, you know, when I went to Lambda, I was the only black student of 300 students at that drama school. I went to see my son in his play, and I graduated 27 years ago, and I now go and talk at Lambda every now and again. And a decent portion of the school is people of color,

from all walks of life, from all over the world. There's been some really great work done. And when I say to those students, when I say to my own son, I cannot believe what I'm seeing in relation to what my experience was. They have no real connection to what I'm saying.

And I, and I, and I find myself thinking, that's exactly what you want. You want them to not be able to understand what it would feel like to be the only. I want you to take this level of diversity for granted. Yeah.

And, and that is the driver for me with storytelling. You know, in terms of the characters I play,

I'm always to certain degree taking roles as a kind of gift to my 12 year old self,

in terms of the things that I didn't see on screen. Cityportia was my hero, but because he, he was like looking at a motion. In relation to what I saw in British television, in relation to what was possible, growing up on a cancels estate in Islington. And to be in a world now where that is not the expense of my kids,

where they're going, oh, I have no one to aspire to in terms of someone who looks like me. That is a big, big driver for why I do what I did. Yeah. It's really incredible. There's an amazing book.

I don't know if you've come across it, everybody's called Pictures at a Revolution. And it's about, it's a snapshot of the movie industry.

And I think 1967, when it's all changing,

but there's a big part of it that's about Sidney Body A and how he came along. And what a pivotal figure he was. And I think in 67, he's in two big movies and he's in heat of the month. Heat of the night. Yeah.

And he snaps a white man, which is still still, I get chills every time I see that scene. He snapped and he slaps the man instantly back. Yeah. And it took people's breath away in the theater. And it still has that power.

Absolutely. You can see in some frames of a film, the world changed. Absolutely. And I think he's also in Guess who's coming to dinner that year. So those are the two films he does in that one year.

And, but then you think about, okay, he fought those battles.

Then Denzel Washington had his battles to fight.

Yeah. That were, you know, different. And it just keeps getting passed on and on and on.

And you want your son to grow up thinking, what's the problem?

Yes. What's the big deal? Absolutely. That's the gift. Absolutely.

It's the gift. And what's great about that story you tell.

Well, anyone who knows any part of his body of work always thinks he won the Oscar

for in the heat of the night. Because of the impact of that slap and that role and how groundbreaking it was. And he wasn't even nominated for that. Neither was he nominated for Guess who's coming to dinner. He won for lilies of the field.

Yeah. And earlier and for a role where he was being nice to white nuns. And that was what was deemed permissible for him back then. It was deeply controversial. In one year, you're going to slap a white man and then for in love with a white woman.

On our screens with us having given you an Oscar. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, no. And, you know, this is the thing about I've heard it said.

It's not about any given role. It's about a body of work. And that body of work is the thing that someone like me now takes for granted. I look at city party and I go, wow. But when you read about him, I met him and it was just, oh, my gosh.

I can barely believe it actually happened. And he, and remember Oprah introduced me to him. And she said, oh, yeah, David's going to play Martin Luther King. I can't imagine it. And I just thought, okay, just be present.

Just be present. Just soak it up. So soak it up. This is really happening. Don't say anything stupid.

Just, you know. And you're saying that out loud. I was. I was. I was.

I was. I was. Why would this be it? I was going to get him out of my presence.

But, you know, as you say, you know, that's that's what you want.

You know, is to, I look, I think at its height. Storytelling. And this is what I tried to do with newborn. That was an incredibly uncomfortable role.

To play my dad passed away on the first day of filming.

He was dealing with colon cancer. And, you know, I, I, I had considered not taking the role. I said to him, look, Daddy, I, I, I, I just can't leave you. We were, we were shooting in Canada. And I, and he was, no, you must go.

You must go. You must go. This is what you're here. This is what you're on this earth to do. You must go.

And this is from my dad who originally was so again. Yes, it. Yeah. Against what I, I wanted to do as a vacation as a profession to. That was his, his last gesture.

Well, what I mean, what a gift that. Your dad got to see it all happened. And as much, you know, as much as we'd still like these people to be here.

I always think about the fact that when my parents got to see plenty.

They got to see plenty. And they got to know that it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for them. So that's, and it, that's a gift that just keeps on giving. If huge, it's the only reason I, I went and, and I, and I did it. But I, I watch newborn now and I can see.

I'm, I'm now removed from it because I've gone through my, or I'm in the middle of my process of healing from the loss of my dad. But I can see the price, you know, I still carry guilt about, you know, going off and doing this, this movie. Even though I, I felt very passionate about doing it, my dad insisted I'd go and do it. But, you know, at its height, I do think these stories cost, you know, to hold up a mirror to humanity, especially when it's humanity's going through these very challenging things.

But it's, it's just, it's the greatest thing in, in the world to, to sort of, in service of humanity kind of try and show us who we are. Well, I always go back to, it's a crazy world. It's always been a crazy world. And there are bad things happening and bad things have always been happening. And everyone just has to try and be, do their work well.

And, and be a good citizen, whatever that may be a good person. Yeah. And so, because sometimes that's all you can do. Everything is so big.

But I think this is a tragic story because I think you would have made an amazing lawyer.

[laughter] We have a lot. David, we have many good actors. [laughter] But to find a really good lawyer?

Yeah. You could have been the next sweet James.

You could have been sweet James.

Sweet James.

And his, his new protege, David.

[laughter]

On it, all those billboards I could have been on.

You could have done so many billboards. How would ever keep fucking around with acting? [laughter] Well, the movie's newborn. I, uh, I loved it.

And I, uh, just enthralled by you.

You're such an amazing person to talk to.

And it's like a tonic when you come by.

I always, I always feel good after you've been here.

Because you're delightfully funny and insightful and just lovely across the board. So I will see what the wedding? [laughter] You know what this funny thing is?

He thinks I'm kidding. I know.

It's going to be like the graduate where this ceremony is happening.

[laughter] [laughter] Conan O'Brien needs a friend.

With Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Sessian, and Mac poorly.

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