The Commanders: Zhukov

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“Now, yet by then, I'm Tuzou Henkla in Vermeeram.”

Moscow, June 1945. 40,000 Soviet soldiers parade through Red Square. Despite the rain, their heads are held high. Their chests are puffed out. Their uniforms are clean and crisp.

Their boots polished. The metal on the barrel of their rifles is buffed to a high sheet. They bask in the glow of victory. It is a moment to reflect upon their historic achievement. In the face of almost overwhelming suffering inflicted upon the Soviet Union during the Second World War.

They have put behind them the bloody humiliation and chaos of 1941 and 1942. They have come through costly victories involving the sacrifice of millions. But the Soviet Union is victorious.

And now, one of the most powerful states in the world.

At the head of this mighty display of military power, rides a man on a white charger. The horse is testing. Skittish, difficult to handle, but its rider definitely controls his excitable steed. His demeanor is confident, it's bullish.

He sits upright in his saddle as he trots along the mass ranks of Soviet troops. As the parade passes Lenin's morsely, the buyers strike up, and there's the deafening sound of thousands of men unleashing a mighty Hura. Swept along on this flood of warriors, the banners, the flags of their fascist foes. The official stories that these are thrown into a great pile of foot of Lenin's morsely

and offering a symbol of victory. But according to an eyewitness, they're actually thrown at the feet of the man on the white charger.

“Recognition of his key role as the architect of Soviet triumph.”

This is his moment, basking in the esteem of his men. On top of Lenin's morsely, dignitaries are gathered to watch the parade. Generals and diplomats from around the world, high-ranking, polite bureau members. At their centre, stands Joseph Stalin. He's the unquestioned leader of victorious nation.

I'll give you the mightyest military power on the planet. Something's he's been distracting him. He's no longer watching the mast ranks of his men streaming past. Instead, his eyes are locked onto the man riding the white horse. He sees the self-assured control of its rider, the reverence with which the men view him.

And the cloud of poisonous suspicion begins to fill his thoughts. The man and riding the white charger is Georgie Constantineovich Zhukov. Marshall of the Soviet Union. Stalin's favourite general until now. The savior of Moscow in 1941.

Architect of the Transformation in the Realm, Stalingrad in 42 and 43. The man who led Soviet armies from defeat to victory in campaigns that would crush Hitler's forces.

And ultimately capture the very capital of the Third Reich.

Berlin. In 1945. Zhukov was the archetypal Soviet warrior. From humble origins he'd risen through the ranks to become one of the mightiest warlords of the Second World War with millions of men as command. He's considered by someone to run the greatest military leaders of all time.

And perhaps it was just that. His popularity, his reputation, his success. There would lead to his downfall, as insecure Soviet leaders felt the threat he posed to their control.

This episode five in our commander's series.

“We're digging in for lives and decisions of five legendary World War II commanders.”

We're going to cut through the myth. We're going to examine what shaped them, what shaped their styles of command. In this episode, we're going to be joined by historian Jeffrey Roberts,

who's a meritist professor in his straight university college cork. He's an expert on Russian Soviet foreign and military policy and on Stalin the Second World War.

What's we're coming to the right place? He's even written a biography that says subject called Stalin's general, the life of Georgi Zhukov. He's the perfect person to tell us to turn in whether Marshall Zhukov truly deserves his reputation as one of the great commanders of the Second World War. In December, 1896, around 60 miles east of Moscow, in the town of Stralkovka, Zhukov was born. His origins were humble, indeed his family were peasants.

His father was a cobbler, his mother, a labourer. Zhukov came from a peasant background. At the age of 12, he was a princess as a foyer. He was very fortunate that when he was a child, this was a time when primary education was being introduced into the Russian countryside.

So he had an elementary education.

“So he had an educational foundation for his later successor.”

And of course he received Boris Koshin as part of his service in the armed forces.

By the time the outbreak of First World War in 1914, he's finished his apprenticeship and he has a couple of apprentices of his own.

Now, interesting point here is that when War breaks out, Zhukov is not among those who volunteers from a military service. He waits until he's conscripted. So he's conscripted into the Tsarist army in 1915. And because he is a skilled worker and because he also has a certain level of education, he gets posted to a cavalry regiment. So he's part of the elite of the Tsarist army during the First World War.

Zhukov may have joined a fashionable unit where the officers were aristocrats. Princes of the blood, the sort who moved in and around royal circles. But the troopers, the guys did the Grand Work, he'll be surprised alone. People like Zhukov were caught from a different cloth. There was still very much peasants.

But it meant that people like him got a glimpse into another world entirely. With war, some comes opportunity.

“And Zhukov began to show his qualities as a soldier and a leader.”

But unlike many of the commanders in this series, the First World War was only an initial stepping stone for Zhukov. Instead, it was what followed it. It was the Russian civil war that really forged Zhukov into the commander that we recognised today. He gets promoted, he's in on commissioned officer. And he has quite a good service record.

He sees quite a lot of action. He's wounded a couple of times. He's decorated for bravery. But then what happens is that come the 1917 Revolution in Russia, the Tsarist army disintegrates in large part, including Zhukov's, you know, that time.

So then basically Zhukov returns home, returns to his home village. But then what happens next is that Zhukov is conscripted again. He's conscripted by the Bolsheviks into the newly created workers and peasants army, which comes to me known as the Red Army. And he's conscripted because he has this military experience, he's an NCO.

He's just a kind of person they want to get back into the armed forces. But again, he's conscripted, right? But when he's conscripted into the newly created Red Army, that's when his political education becomes before that. He wasn't very political at all.

But when he becomes part of the Red Army, then he gets very political. And he himself becomes a communist, right? It's actually when he becomes a Red Army soldier. That's when he develops the self-control and discipline. For what he later recames finds and anti-term measures.

But of course, after remembering like he's growing up, this is his early adult hood. And yeah, I'm sure he matures. But again, in the Red Army, he has a successful career. He becomes what's effectively an officer. He's decorated for bravery again.

He sees quite a lot of military action. But post-revolution when the Russian Civil War comes to an end in 1921-1922, Zhukov opt to remain within the Red Army. So he's choice to continue the life of a soldier. And what he says about that, he says that what he liked about being a soldier

was that every day was different.

There's always something new happening, something going on.

So for him, soldier was always interesting. The Russian Civil War really shaped the military education. It's somewhat like Zhukov received. But it simply, this wasn't a war of trenches and static lines across the Western Frontlight. The First Old War. It was chaotic. It was sprawling.

It was forced across vast territories. There were enormous advances and retreats from 1917 to 1923.

Huge cavalry armies galloped across immense distances, off the little logistical support. Keeping men supplied with food ammunition when to clothing was as challenging as defeating the enemy. It was the kind of warfare that demanded quick thinking.

Improvisation, constant movement, decisiveness, and the ability to identify and then strike at weak points across a shifting front. For an officer, speed, endurance, initiative,

“were more important for example, marshalling overpowering firepower.”

It is very much a very mobile war. It's a war of maneuver. It's constantly changing in front lines. It's a civil war between the Bolsheviks on the one hand. The so-called white armies on the other hand.

But there's several different white armed formations in the Bolsheviks of fighting. On several different fronts, and Zhukov actually serves on several different fronts. It's a very complex fluid struggle. Of course, it is a civil war. There's a struggle behind the lines as well as on the front line as well.

As part of that, he's lost military action during the civil war period. The end of the civil war period was being part of a unit that was suppressive, very brutally suppressive, a present revolt against Bolsheviks.

For all of the red armies like top commanders, later on in the Second World War,

the civil war, more so than the First World War, is a hugely common formative experience in their military energy. Mobility being very confident with astonishing uncertainty, and imagine not sure within them even are what way you're going to be advancing next season. And then also pivot strike, pivot strike, different directions, different, you know,

I can imagine that it's a heck of a training.

“Yeah, sure, but Zhukov is also trying to reduce young certainty, yes, right?”

To understand the situation, to grasp the situation, to actually control it. I think that's one of these qualities. As he matures as a top-level military commander, is that ability to to visit what's going on in the very complex battlefield or a complex campaign, or a series of operations, and attempts to actually impose order and discipline,

because that's the way you're going to win. The mobility of the civil war suited Zhukov.

He was covering them after all, never happier than in the saddle covering vast distances,

taking an enemy and a flank by surprise. The war taught him about managing complex and confusing combat situations. He wasn't important to maneuver warfare. By 1923, following the victory of the Red Army in the civil war, he was in command of a cavalry regiment.

He got on to graduate from the higher school of cavalry in 1925, and progressed to the elite, Frun's military academy. By 1933, he commanded an entire cavalry division. But a Zhukov advanced through the ranks, a new threat emerged. But that wasn't an attack by an enemy nation.

It was the enemy's at home he needed to worry about. During 1930's, Stalin had become paranoid, about potential opposition groups derailing the Soviet project, or more accurately his project. The orchestrated a massive series of purchase.

He's peaked in around 1986 to 1998, during what became known as the Great Purge, hundreds of thousands, of so-called enemies of the people who arrested their tortured, they're executed in prison, Stalin's secret police were busy. These purges were accompanied by show trials,

though accusations of treason and sabotage, much of the old Bolshevik elite were destroyed. Stalin's personal dictatorship was cemented in. Every strata of society was affected. Party officials, intellectuals, ordinary citizens.

The Soviet military iconomal far from the moon. Between 1937 and 38, thousands of officers, from marshal downwards, were removed. In some cases, tried and executed. When so many officers face ruin, imprisonment and death,

how did Zhukov survive? Well, it didn't just survive, he thrives. Zhukov personally benefits from the purges. So in the 1920's Zhukov is a red army commander. He becomes a regimental commander.

“That's why he remains for 1927 years, is a regimental commander.”

He's suddenly in the 1930's. That is promotion to the very top ranks of the Red Army begin.

Okay, and the arms for two reasons, first is because there's a massive expansion

of the Soviet armed forces during the 1930's. Realmen, you know, to actually meet various external threats, which Stalin and the other Soviet leaders see were. But the second thing that's going on is from the mid 1930's, and the 1920's, 30's, almost, are these like massive purges of the armed forces, right?

And it's actually the purging of various people that creates vacancies for Zhukov to feel. So that's what's happened. When he's getting promoted, he's actually stepping into the positions

Why is Zhukov himself not purged? It's because he's loyal. And also because, okay, Zhukov becomes a communist. I adopt the communist identity. It's committed to the communist cause.

Zhukov is not very political, right?

“So he doesn't get involved in political intrigues, yeah?”

So he's kind of like relatively apoliticalness. I think it helps him survive. But basically, he remains loyal. He doesn't cause any trouble. It's not to seem to be a political challenge in any way.

But there's no doubt always that personally, in terms of his career progress,

Zhukov benefits from Stalin's purges. When Zhukov comes decades later to write his memoirs, he tries to put a different spin on that. He says he was lucky to escape the purchase. And he tells stories about how he came under threat.

And now, you know, I'm one of Zhukov's biographers. I kind of like to believe these stories. But I don't see any evidence for him. I'm a bit skeptical about that. Yeah, Zhukov survives because he was a loyal Soviet soldier and a communist.

And also he gets promoted because he's a very able soldier. A very able, come on, okay, he's not, he's no military genus.

“He's actually not one of the rising stars in the Red Army in the 1930s, right?”

But he's very, very, very solid. He's very, very liable, very, very competent. And whatever position is given, he gets the job done. Zhukov's rise had so far in steady. He was a clear competent officer.

And perhaps, unfortunately, at that point, he was a reliable, loyal communist and party member. But in May 1939, Zhukov received the potion that would put him on the map as a battlefield commander. Between 1938 and 1999, there had been a series of bloody clashes. It's now, unfortunately, forgotten, but super important at the time. Between Soviet and Japanese troops along the Kalkin goal river on the Mongolian Manchurian Order.

Zhukov was initially sent to investigate the reasons for unsatisfactory Soviet performance in the end. But his Jeffrey explained, this was an act of fate that would push Zhukov to the fore with a victory. That would have an outsized strategic effect. Zhukov is also very lucky in his career, in many ways. And this is one of these lucky turning points in his life.

Because basically, he's set to Mongolia to the Mongolian Manchurian Border in May 1939.

On an inspection tour, he's sent there to have a look at the Red Army formation there, which is locked in a... ...and not actually in combat with a Japanese, but in a confrontation with the Japanese. Because Japan had invaded Manchuria in 1931. And they had created a border between Japanese occupied Manchuria and Mongolia. And there are border clashes, there are border conflicts and tensions.

There's not actually quite clear. Zhukov sent to a place called How King Gold, How King Gold River. To actually inspect what's going on to assess the performance of the local military command. But what happens when he's there is that there are some actual clashes with the Japanese. Clashes in which the Soviets don't perform too well actually, right?

So that creates an opening for Zhukov, because his masters in Moscow decide as he is on the spot. And he's got good reputation, they decide to appoint him the command of the local forces at How King Gold.

“So that's how he comes to this senior command on the Mongolian Manchurian Border.”

And how he comes to fight his battle with the Japanese in August 1939, the How King Gold Battle. Okay, and what he does is that he, during his battle, he executes a classic kind of in circumvent maneuver against the Japanese army. And he advances in a sense and pins the Japanese down and add out thanks to any of the circles Japanese forces. And he fixes huge defeat on Japanese forces. The Japanese defeat, how King Gold reinforced its difficulties there have in relation to their campaign in China.

Which isn't going very well. So it reinforces the advocacy of the so-called sovereign strategy. So obviously the Japan should actually expand into Southeast Asia in the Pacific, of course, which actually precipitates the clash with the United States. Yeah, and that makes his reputation as a military commander.

Of course, this is his first large-scale combat operation.

Yeah, okay, yeah, combat experience from the First World War and civil war. Based on until 1939, they actually conducts an actual military operation. Yeah, so he's him later being promoted to the rank of four general. It's because also the lucky in another respect. So he has this luck being the man on the spot in time for this battle with the Japanese, which is very successful. But after the Hawking Gold Battle, it's your offering mains in Mongolia to negotiate with the Japanese.

The terms of the armistice and negotiate a settlement of the conflict there.

Of course, current sides with the red armies attack on Finland in the winter of 1939-40, right?

And of course, they're, okay, ultimately the red army subdues the Finns for citizens to sign a peace treaty, which could seize the territory that Stalin wanted to capture from Finland.

But the campaigns are very costly one. And there's lots of mistakes made out of them, but she'll copy because he's in the forest as nothing to do with a campaign. So he has reputation. He remains unblemished. Following his success in Mongolia, Zhukov was awarded the Soviet Union's highest military honor, hero of the Soviet Union. The first or four occasions on which he received the award.

He was also promoted a general and given command of a Kiev special military district.

“He's likely important role in defence of the Soviet Union's western borders.”

After the Finnish war, the Winter War, starring the points Marshall Timashenko as the new defence minister. Marshall Timashenko and Zhukov are quite personally close having served together in the 1930s. So Zhukov's apartment to that major position is partly still part to do with his personal collections to Timashenko. I don't think Zhukov was thinking about defending the Soviet Union. No, no, no, no. What he's thinking about is like all the red army leaders are thinking about.

They're thinking about how they're going to attack Germany. I'm not saying what offensive operations they're going to conduct because the basic strategic orientation of the red army, I command Zhukov included, was that when the Germans attacked, they weren't just going to sit back or defend. They were going to deal with their attack by launching a series of counter-offensives. And that's one of the reasons why Zhukov is hosted to this frontline military district, based around Kiev, because of his offensive success at how he can go.

And because he's seen as someone who will be able to conduct the large-scale offensive operations, which the Soviets plan to initiate, when the Germans attack them. And it's also that kind of offensive orientation of Zhukovs, which leads to his next promotion. So he's head of the Kiev military district in 1941, Danian February 1941, he's appointed Chief of the General Staff. Okay, and our appointment follows a series of war games that the Soviets had conducted in January 1944. And these are war games about fighting a war with Germany.

And Zhukov had taken part in those war games, and it basically won one of these war games.

So again, that reinforces his reputation as someone who has the ability to actually conduct counter-offensive operations against the Germans when the war comes. So it makes sense to actually appoint Zhukov Chief of the General Staff, because that's the basic strategic concepts that the Soviets have. When the war begins, they're going to fight an offensive war against Germany. That doesn't mean unless they're going to launch a preemptive strike. Or the idea is when the Germans attack the Soviets are going to counter attack, a Zhukov is seen as being the right person to be Chief of the General Staff in relation to that strategy.

“But here's the thing, Zhukov wasn't really a staff officer. He never had been.”

I don't think Zhukov ever really wanted to be Chief of General Staff. Zhukov was a frontline officer. That was where his talent, I actually, not as a Chief of the General Staff. In June 1941, Nazi Germany, it's allies launched Operation Barbarossa. It was the largest invasion in human history. Millions of enemy troops poured across the border from German occupied Poland into the Soviet Union.

Zhukov's plans would finally be put to the test. They would be found severely lacking.

A crucial point here about the initial success of Operation Barbarossa, right?

A lot of it was very much the two with the flawed nature of the Soviet preparations for this offensive war with Germany. This is why I'm okay when the Germans launched Operation Barbarossa, the Soviets attempt to implement these plans for counteroffensive operations. Zhukov is very much part of that. He's an active army. The Germans attack on June 22nd. Within a day or two, Zhukov has returned to the Kiev military district to actually take part in the counteroffensive that's going to be launched from that direction.

“These counteroffensive turn out to be disastrous, they fail, and they actually expose hundreds of thousands of Soviet troops to encirclements, right?”

Those massive encirclement operations also reveal another problem with Soviet preparation for the war. They don't have any doctrine or plans of training to deal with encirclement, because that wasn't what they anticipated.

That's very lot of responsibility for the disaster that befalls the Red Army as a result of Operation Barbarossa.

It's not just him. It's obviously the whole of the high command, and obviously Stalin is the supreme commander, ultimately its Stalin's responsibility, not Zhukovs.

But what you can say in Zhukov's favor, is that in response to this huge disaster which unfolds as a result of Operation Barbarossa, the Germans are very, very quickly reached the outskirts of Lennygrad, Moscow. They capture Kiev, they're kind of starting very deep into Ukraine and Southern Russia. It's a no-time Jewish process. That's he loses his call. He keeps his composure, right? And that's generally true of the Red Army. But one thing that does happen is the result of Barbarossa, what's going on, and it's not to do with failure, is that Zhukov leaves the position of Chief of the Soviet General Staff.

“He's placed in charge of a reserve front, right? What's called a reserve front, but actually quite a big front, about 50 divisions, right?”

It is sometimes seen as a demotion, but I don't think it was. Zhukov was stepping aside, has been Chief of the General Staff, because he has a lot more to contribute, as being actually a frontline commander of this reserve front. And it's this reserve front, actually, that's actually largely successful. I don't think so, but I don't think so about this disaster of June 22nd, right? Is that at the time, it wasn't so shoky, because of course, this is the German army that had conquered France in just a few weeks.

It wasn't shoky that the Germans had this huge British Union successes, initially with Operation Arborossa, so that said blame wasn't being the task, right? What was actually shoky of came to be shoky was the Soviets, the Red Army, Zhukov, Stalin, the Soviet Union, they were able to survive. This huge defeat, huge defeat, by the end of 1941, the Soviets have suffered 4 million casualties, just think about that.

“Barbarossa had been a catastrophe, millions of men had been lost, thousands of kilometres of territory lost, untold destruction done, German forces advanced deep into the Soviet Union.”

Following his removal as Chief of Staff in July 1941, Zhukov was sent to take control of several critical frontline commands.

He redeemed himself, he proved his metal as a frontline commander, he played a key role in stabilizing collapsing sectors such as during the defence of Leningrad. By the autumn, the fall of 1941, both sides have been battered and bloody, but the German High Command was determined to make one last push to finish off the Soviet Union that year. They would strike at the Capitol, Moscow, they would decapitate the Soviet State. Zhukov was placed in charge of its defence. Of course, there is this famous photo of Varm's German units being within the site of the Kremlin, yes, and they're there, and in the distance there's the Kremlin.

“That's what that day is when we call fake news, yes, it's a fake photo, obviously, it's a propaganda photo. Okay, so why is it that the Germans are approaching Moscow?”

When it's usually during the autumn, where you have to find this recipe teacher to time a bad road because of the rain and stuff like that. And then all of that, because of winter conditions, which give up in October, why is it that they're approaching that point? Well, they're approaching that point because they're advanced on Moscow that's been held up for about two months in the Civilian Scarea. Huge battles going on in the Civilian Scarea, which did lie to German approach to Moscow, to the Asuka of the Moscow.

And it's really, though, those Civilian battles that are actually crucial battles in saving Moscow from German culture.

And of course, one of those civilian battles is the battle that the Asuka of White has come out of a disreserved front, back of Yelnaya. And it's a battle in the Smelensk area where the Asuka is able to push the Germans back, actually recapture occupied territory. Now, okay, the Germans recapture their territory, not long after, but it's part of the massive delayed the German stuff on the road to Moscow. The Germans by October 1941 are very much within striking distance of Moscow. Zhukov is recalled to Moscow by Stalin to take control of the defense of Moscow.

He's recalled by the way from Leningrad. He's been sent to Leningrad by Stalin in order to help save Leningrad from German culture. And then Moscow becomes more of a priority. So Stalin brings him to Moscow, puts him in command of an army formation called the Western Front. So the Soviet, the Western Front of the Soviet army.

But also what's happening at the same time is that the Soviets are accumulating reserves east of Moscow.

A number of divisions east of Moscow, with a view to actually launching a counter-offensive, which will push the Germans away and safeguard Moscow. And Zhukov is very much part of the planning and preparation for that counter-offensive. He's in charge of it. He's the commander of the front of the conductor.

“It's actually Zhukov's defensive Moscow, and his counter-offensive Moscow, the really makes his reputation as a Soviet joke. That's when it happens, right?”

Zhukov very much seen as being the savior of Moscow. Of course, the other person who seen as being the savior of Moscow at the time, and also in retrospect, is Stalin, because Stalin doesn't evacuate the Soviet capital. There is quite a large-scale evacuation of very Soviet ministries and diplomats, and so on, to kubishiv out of harm's way. But Stalin himself remains in Moscow. And of course, there's this famous parade through Red Square on November 7, 1941, where Stalin reviews.

The troops, troops which are parade you through Red Square, very shortly after being sent to the front. So there's a huge psychological aspect to the Moscow battle. And Zhukov is very much part of that psychology that we can survive and we can win. But also Stalin as well. So Stalin and Zhukov who saved Moscow, the two of them together. And then, there's actually what the Moscow counter-offensive signified was the Operation Barbarossa had failed as a strategic operation. It was a failure. And now what the Germans were faced with, they were faced with fighting a war of attrition on the Eastern Front.

And that was the war that they were going to lose. And of course, who was it who commanded to solve it forces that launched the Moscow counter-offensive? It was Yukov. You listen to Dan Snow's history hits. The best is yet to come. Stay with us.

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Jukov hadn't just halted the Nazi juggernaut outside Moscow, but for the first time in this war, he'd inflicted a stinging defeat upon it.

This helped to convince Stalin that he'd finally found the right man for one of the toughest jobs in military history. Jeffrey explains. Thought of the "Metjukov" he knew, he knew about how King Gull, right? He'd work very closely with Jukov when Jukov was chief of the General Staff. Jukov has scores of meetings with Stalin in the period leading up to the German invasion in June 9th.

“Yeah, so Stalin absolutely knows him, right? That's why he placed him in charge of this reserve front, right?”

I think Jukov's request, I think, is Jukov requested to be relieved to the position of chief of the General Staff, because he thought he could do more good in charge of this reserve front. Now, as an important biographical point to make here, which in his memoirs, Jukov claims that he was dismissed as being chief of the General Staff. Because he'd opposed Stalin's policy in relation to Kiev, right? So there was a big battle of Kiev in the summer of 1941, right?

And basically, Jukov claims that he wanted to withdraw Soviet forces from the Kiev era to save them from encirclement by the Germans.

Where Stalin opposed that. Stalin did want to give up the defense of Kiev. So Jukov says, well, we disagree. So Stalin would meet me in my position, and then I went to command this reserve front. I'm not saying I don't think that happened. I'm not saying there wasn't a disagreement. I think there wasn't a description between Jukov and Stalin over what to do at Kiev. But I don't think that was the reason he left the chief of General Staff position and went to reserve it. I went to reserve it because he was seen as the person that could actually do a job there in terms of mounting some kind of actual successful counter-offensive against Germans and he did that. He succeeded.

And Moscow is very much seen as under fair. Now it is not a fairy or a notion, right? Stalin the Soviets fear greatly that Moscow is going to be captured by the Germans.

So it's quite natural that Stalin will bring his best general back to Moscow to conduct the defense of the Soviet capital.

“And here's the thing, why does Stalin see Jukov as his best general? Okay, it's obviously to do with Jukov's performance as a commander.”

But it's also to do with Stalin's absolute conviction about Jukov's loyalty and discipline.

And he will do what is necessary, where it takes, and he'll also follow orders, he'll carry out his instructions to delay. So Stalin has this huge kind of trust in Jukov as his top general. Moscow may have been saved, but victory was far from assured. The very marked in its allies may have received a bloody nose and the snows outside the Soviet capital, but its strength was certainly not spent yet. During the summer of 1942, Nazi Germany launched a monumental new offensive, this time in southern Russia. The aim was to seize the Soviet oil fields of the Caucasus, something vital to both sides. Germany needed them to fuel its war machine, and then lost would cripple the Soviet capacity to fight.

“German forces surging across southern Russia also struck towards the vulgar around the city of Stalin, in a bit disrupt Soviet traffic on that great river, as well as seize the important industrial city.”

Jukov would once again be called on by Stalin as the Soviet Union faced another crisis. That's launching June 1942, and like Barbara Rosser, initially, that campaign is a huge success, although the Caucasus suffered by the Soviet side in summer 1942, a considerably less than they were in 1941. The Soviet hydroline, some lessons about defence and about needing to retreat. OK, so the Germans have launched some campaign, but actually, Stalin and Jukov remain convinced that the main battle is going to take place in front of Moscow.

Their view is that Moscow is still the Germans main target, because if the Germans could capture Moscow, they can win the war, effectively. They don't really appreciate what's going on in the South, it takes them a while to get up to speed, right? But once Stalin does get up to speed, did seize what's happening in the South, seize the breakthroughs that the Germans are making in the southern theatre, right? And seize the threat to Stalin grid, like by August 42, the Germans are on the Azka, so Stalin grid, that's the moment in which he gives Jukov an average job, right? He transfers him from being the chief of the Western Front Command, and he makes Jukov his deputy Supreme Command, right?

So, Jukov's deputy Supreme Command is basically his Stalin's personal representative, as all the power and authority that entails.

But his most fundamental tasks is to coordinate the activities of the different Soviet fronts, because there are a number of different fronts, and they're fighting alongside each other, and there's a need to coordinate their action to supervise their action, right? So that's Jukov's job as Stavka coordinator, okay, and the first place he's sent, to do this job of coordination, he's sent to Stalin grid, to the Stalin grid area, to actually coordinate the defensive Stalin grid. The city is served, also, on the flanks of the city, and also the variety that's going on elsewhere in the south, so Jukov is very much at the center of the unfolding action at Stavka grid. But the question is, okay, so the Soviets are defending, they're trying to stop the Germans from capturing the whole of Stalin grid.

“Of course, the Germans, you know, actually did capture up to 90 percent of Stalin grid, but the 10 percent that didn't capture was crucial to maintaining supply lines across the vulgar.”

But the question is, well, what are you going to do? Apart from defending, sorry, okay, and what you're going to do is, another version of what the Soviets had done in relation to the Moscow battle, you're going to build up your forces in the rear and on the flanks, and you're going to launch a counter offensive. A counter offensive, which is two goals, firstly, to encircle the Germans within the city of Stavka grid, but actually, more importantly, actually to cut off the Germans' southern campaign, to trap the German forces heading towards Baku in the south. And that's concept is not just about Stalin grid, it's not just about defeating the German southern campaign of rolling it back.

It's you cover, not just you cover, but you cover, and Vasilevsky Vasilevsky, who is the new chief of the Soviet General Staff, and you cover Vasilevsky were very closely together in the war. It's you cover Vasilevsky's plan for this massive counter offensive, sorry, it's there right there. Vasilevsky, who actually supervised the development, the operationalisation of this plan. And that's what happened, of course, we look, there is this famous Soviet counter offensive in November 1942, which very successfully entrap the Germans in Stavka grid.

The Soviets are also surprised at how many Germans they tried. They don't anticipate trapping about 100,000, but as it turns out, it's about 300,000 German troops. They trump, so that's very successful. And then, yeah, we will not about the the subsequent siege of the German forces in Stavka, an eventual surrender at the end of January 1943. The other Soviet operational goal is not achieved. They don't succeed in trapping the Germans in the south. The Germans were able to withdraw their forces, and the fact that the German are able to withdraw their forces from the Frustals, because that's a huge significance, because what that means is that for the next two years, they're able to wage a fighting step by step defensive campaign in southern Russia, and very, very importantly in Ukraine.

“So that failure of the, actually, the bigger goal of the operation is, quote, a sequel. But what's out there is the huge success.”

Despite the vast bloodshed at Stavka grid, Zhukov had once again achieved a stunning victory, and it is argued, but it was hailed that the tide of the war was irrevocably turned.

But how had he done it? And would there be any way back for Nazi Germany? It's meticulous preparation, preparation of overwhelming force, to actually deliver the offensive blows, and achieve the operational effect as a attention to detail. Zhukov is obsessed with preparation, excess with inspections, right, training, yeah, assembly, all the technical means necessary to actually conduct the operations, right? It's a imagination, which leads to this concept of a massive kind of events of operation at Stavka grid.

“In practical terms, he's involved in the coordination of the fronts, the various fronts involved in the operation, and also making sure that the fronts are actually prepared and able to carry out the operation task.”

So the job homework of Zhukov is he plays the great emphasis on Maskerovka, Maskerovka, masking, yes, covering up Soviet intentions, and that is a big feature of the preparations for the Stavka grid, counterfensive is the degree to which the Soviets are able to cover up their intentions, and to actually spring quite a big surprise on the jumps.

And not just other germs, of course, because the big success of the Stavka grid operation wasn't just entraping the Germans. It was breaking through the flanks of the Axis armies.

That campaign broke the Italian Romanian and Hungarian, obviously, yeah, and it is actually their defeat in Stavka grid that leads to the disintegration, the political disintegration of Hitler's Axis alliance. And the way I look at the Stavka grid battle is the point of no return for the Germans. There's no way back from the strategic defeat at Stavka grid. O Stavka grid is no doubt about the outcome of work. Questions, how long is it going to take? How costly is it going to be, right? So for me, Stavka grid is the great turning point of the Soviet German war.

Zhukov may have achieved remarkable victories and broken the back of the Axis armies, but it all come at a terrible price.

“Soviet casualties would continue to be terrible throughout the remainder of the war. A common criticism of Zhukov is that he was careless with the lives of his men, but is that really the case?”

Jeffrey doesn't think so. Nothing annoyed Zhukov more than these accusations that he was indifferent to the casualties on his own side, right? Nothing annoyed Zhukov more than armchair generals, lecturing him or anyone else on how they could have won all these battles, so far less, cost more efficiently, right? Zhukov's casualties were no worse than any other Soviet generals. If you actually could barely stats, they're more or less the same. So the casualties are a function of the situation and the nature of the war.

The casualties are incurred on the western front during the First World War. It's kind of comparable levels we're talking about years and the eastern front context, but the afternoon to remember is that Zhukov started in particular as well, but very like sensitive about the issue of casualties, because of course,

I don't think they were like, carousel cruel in relation to their troops, but they were certainly ruthless and determined and were prepared to incur high casualties, very high casualties in order to win the war. You can make it certainly make an argument they could have won the war with fewer casualties, but who knows you can say that their disciplinary regime was too harsh. I mean during the war, the Soviets executed more than 150,000 their own troops, whatever, various offenses, right?

“But any after asks a question, was that the only way that they could win the war, and are you prepared to risk losing the war by maybe having a more benign approach to military discipline?”

You listen to Dan Snow's history, because we're coming up.

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During the Soviet victory at Stalingrad, Soviet forces advanced rapidly.

They'd retake and sway youths of land, and cities, including place like Curse.

The Germans had eventually halted the Soviet advance with a series of desperate counterattacks, and the fronted stabilised by March 1943. However, a large bulge was left projecting into the German line. Both sides knew that a clash here was inevitable. It hoped to pinch off the bulge and destroy the Soviet forces within it, which then would force all a Soviet summer offensive.

On the other hand, Staling believed the enemies on the back foot, and wanted to switch back to the offensive. Zhukov urged caution. He argued that they should let the Germans attack, be drawn into a trap, with potentially devastating consequences. The Curse battle was the German's last major offensive battle of the Soviet German war. And the Soviet, Zhukov, I saw it coming.

In a way, it was kind of obvious that the Germans would launch a bigger attack in the Curse Gera. So the basic plan was to actually to defend, to attract, to wage a war of attrition in the Curse Gera against the Germans. And how he warned down the Germans to launch a series of counteroffensive campaigns. And that's exactly what happened, the German attack and the Curse Sation failed. They suffered huge casualties, and the Soviets were able to launch a series of offensive operations.

“One of the most important of which was, this is the one that Zhukov was centrally involved in as coordinator of the France,”

was an offensive into Ukraine. So following the Curse battle, there's a year-long battle, which the Soviets fight to expel the Germans from Ukraine and Zhukov very much involved in that battle. He suddenly evolved in recapturing Kiev in November, 1944. So this is a huge battle for Zhukov in 1944 and it's one of the main focuses of Zhukov's activities in that period.

After Curse gets clear that the allies are going to win the second war.

It's clear that the Soviets are going to liberate their own country. And indeed push into much of Eastern Central Europe.

“What's his thinking now in terms of strategy into the operational plan?”

Is it just keep up the tempo operations, keep punching the Germans, keep them off balance? Or are he installing hoping to gobble up as much of Europe as possible? What do you think is going through his head now from late 43 onwards? He's very much focused on defeating the Germans on reaching Berlin. That's his focus.

Okay, so you have the Curse battle in the summer of 1943. The next big coalition campaign starts in the summer of 1944, June 1944. Famous Operation Bagratio, which is an operation against RB Group Centre.

One of the main directions of that operation Bagratio was towards Warsaw, Interpoland, and into Warsaw. And that's a hugely successful operation. So by the end of July, the Red Army is on the outskirts of Warsaw. But here's the thing.

“For Zhukov, Warsaw was a secondary objective, right?”

Zhukov argued in favour of focusing on entry into German territory in East Prussia. He focuses very much on the invasion of German territory. He thinks that Warsaw and Poland, that can wait. It's getting you to Germany, it's what he wants to do. But he's overall the Soviet leadership thinks that actually it'd be easier to advance through Poland to Germany rather than to do it for East Prussia.

So that's the question. Zhukov is focused on getting to Germany, invading Germany, capturing Berlin. That's Zhukov's focus. Zhukov had led campaigns that had utterly shattered the very marked Germany's allies.

By the spring of 1945, Soviet armies went out deep into the third Reich,

and were marching inexorably towards Berlin. Zhukov would finally get his chance to strike at the very heart of the fascist beast. So actually the last great Soviet military operation of the Second World War, is the operation which Zhukov captures Warsaw and then heads towards Berlin. In fact, the aim of the operation was to capture Berlin by February 1945.

That was the strategic goal. And indeed Zhukov's view at the time was that his forces were capable of capturing Berlin as early as February or maybe March 1945. The problem was that the danger was were they capable of holding onto Berlin, having captured it. The Germans were down, but they weren't out. They still had considerable forces on hand in the Berlin area.

There were lots of dangers of German localised German counterattacks, which could do a lot of damage to Soviet forces, any towards Berlin.

“So in the end, the decision was taken, I think Zhukov was part of this decision was to hold the advance on Berlin.”

This is in February 1945. We have a view to resuming it later on in the year. And of course, that what happens is that the Soviet advance on Berlin is resumed in April 1945.

The main thrust of that advance was conducted by the first Belarusian front.

And the commander of the first Belarusian front was Zhukov. And it was Stalin that decided to give Zhukov this command and this mission of capturing Berlin. Which was kind of like obviously the war in natural, because of course Zhukov was Stalin's deputy Supreme Commander. Zhukov was Stalin's general. So it was only natural that Stalin would actually assign Zhukov this final mission of capturing Berlin.

On the 16th of April 1945, the Soviet assault on Berlin began. The city was soon circled, Soviet forces began to advance through the shattered cityscape itself. After days of desperate fighting amongst the smash ruins of the Nazi capital. On the 2nd of May 1945, the last German forces in the city surrendered. Hitler was dead.

Nazi Germany was utterly defeated. Days later, on the 8th of May, the formal surrender of Nazi Germany was signed in Berlin. Over scene by Marshall Zhukov, who signed the decree on behalf of the Soviet Union. Zhukov was at the zenith of his career. But in the Soviet Union, when Stalin to your boss, success means danger.

During the war Zhukov had shown total loyalty to Stalin. He'd brought him victory after victory. He'd walk the tight rope of keeping on the right side of this mercurial leader. But with the laurels of victory being heaped upon Zhukov's head, Stalin's suspicions of him only grew. Some said that Stalin even feared his haunted Marshall.

“I think Stalin was scared of Zhukov, certainly suspicious, but then Stalin was suspicious of everyone.”

Zhukov asked this reputation of being the only one among Stalin's generals.

But he wouldn't stand up to Stalin to speak his body for a second.

And I think there is something to that reputation. But in the end Zhukov is subordinate. It is a power and shape, but in this partnership, Stalin is the dominant partner. And that's true throughout the whole world.

I want to say suspicious that he gets very irritated with Zhukov.

“Because he thinks Zhukov is garnering too much of the glory of the victory in the Great Patriot.”

He thinks Zhukov is claiming too much credit for the great military feats of the war. He thinks that Stalin himself, he should get more credit that Zhukov seems to be... And he falls out with Zhukov just after the war. In June 1945, there's this victory parade in Red Square. And Zhukov is the one who takes the salute at this victory blade. Stalin is a reviews to play from on top of the Lenin Mosleon.

But Zhukov takes the salute. And Zhukov, for this is taking the salute, is on a horse line. And then he goes out, he makes this speech. And then there's this parade of the various represents the various Soviet armed forces formation. And at the part of that parade, when the high points that parade is when 200 Nazi banners are piled up against the Kremlin war.

Well, there's a very interesting eyewitness report of that parade. It's by Kathleen Harriman. He was the daughter of the American ambassador in Moscow this time, Admiral Harriman. So she's at the parade, right? And what she witnesses, she writes, this isn't a letter, a couple days after the parade.

And she sees these banners being piled up against Zhukov's feet at Zhukov's feet. That's the way she sees that scene being enacted. And that's not what you see when you see the Soviet newsroom even. But I have a feeling that that moment might be the moment when Stalin's relationship were attitude towards Zhukov begins to sour. Okay, and that leads eventually to Zhukov being demoted and sent off to regional commands after the war.

But a couple points about that, you know, Zhukov's post-war banishment.

The first place that Zhukov never blamed Stalin for what happens to him.

“He didn't blame Stalin. He thought that Stalin was misled by people around him, right?”

And second thing is Zhukov's like banishment and punishment is alienation from Stalin. Distance even stone is actually quite short lived. By the late 1940s, when Stalin's still alive, Zhukov is being rehabilitated. He's coming back into the fold at the very top levels. In fact, Zhukov's opinion was that Stalin hadn't died what he did in March 1953.

Stalin was going to a point in minister of defense. So one shouldn't exaggerate the extent of Stalin's falling out with Zhukov after the war. Zhukov's punishment by Stalin was believed me was very, very mild compared to the person who was beaten out to other Soviet generals. He was seemed to be disloyal or insuburned or something like that. In March 1953, Stalin suffered a massive stroke and died.

His passing would provide Zhukov with a moment of rebirth and opportunity to step out to the wilderness as the Soviet Union lunged into a leadership crisis. This time Zhukov would act to defend his nation against the possibility of a new era of terror from within. So, I'll to Stalin dies, Zhukov becomes deputy defense minister. And very early on in that role, he plays a very counter-traumatic role in the arrest of Beria.

“Leverending Beria, the Soviets security chief, right?”

Who seen us by the other Soviet leaders as being a threat, as being a new Stalin, a new dictator. So they decide to arrest Beria and Zhukov is the main person who's deputed to actually carry out arrest physical arrest. They lure Beria to a meeting, and then Zhukov enters the meeting with some high-ranking Soviet officers, and he grabs hold of Beria. I had to hear a lesson because a few months later, Beria is executed.

But then, after the years later, Zhukov becomes the minister of defense. I'm going to talk about Zhukov's lucky service to his career. The reason he becomes minister of defense in January 1955 is because the previous incumbent will go on in, had stepped aside to become the new Soviet prime minister, because Zhukov did a party leader at full-out with Malenkov, who was the prime minister of time.

So Malenkov was outstead by Zhukov, and then Beria becomes the new prime minister, which creates a vacancy for Zhukov to become the minister of defense. And as minister of defense, Zhukov develops into being a very hugely popular.

It was always popular, but an even more popular figure in the Soviet Union.

From this, that creates Zhukov as a threat, as far as Christchurch, because the Christchurch falls out with Zhukov, and dismisses him as minister of defense. And actually forces Zhukov to retire from the armed forces in 1955. Yeah, so he has this amazing life story in many ways. He has this amazing kind of like military career during the Second World War,

but that he also had his hugely colorful, postful political careers as well.

Following his forced retirement, Zhukov lived quietly, writing his memoirs, spending time with his family, and going on hunting and fishing trips, old age and ill health eventually took their toll. And Giorgi Zhukov, Marshall of the Soviet Union, died in April 1974 at the age of 77 in the Kremlin Hospital.

This is a series about some of the great commanders of the Second World War,

and by the close of the conflict, the nature of things meant that not to the Soviets, but all the Allied armies had a raft of incredibly talented and successful leaders. How should we think about Zhukov?

“Is he the great genius of the Soviet War effort? Or was he merely first among equals?”

When I started writing about a biography of Zhukov, I started on the work of it. I was skeptical, right? As far as I was concerned, Zhukov was too much of a disciplinary narrative, too much of a kick-ass commander, too vulgar, my preferred Soviet General of the Second World War was Rokosovsky, who I saw as being much more benign, much more intellectual, right? I mean, I must not care about his truths, but during the course of Rokosov, right, he made perspective change, actually. I got more sympathetic towards Zhukov as I went along, which is the kind of thing that I think tends to happen to be offered.

So my disdain for his command style was balanced by my actual observation of all his qualities as a general and as a command. And he's amazingly complex and challenging, stressful conditions.

He's just quite incredible to observe Zhukov in action.

“I think he's probably first among equals, he's probably the best. Very much first among equals.”

Certainly, in Soviet times, in contemporary Russia, Zhukov would be mostly considered to be the top Soviet general of the Second World War. And there were lots of people. Myself and include, we say he has a good claim to be the top general of the whole of the Second World War, the greatest general of the Second World War, because of what he did. The success, okay, main mistake, it was very costly, but ultimately, you know, he won, he was instrumental in winning the octict of victory in the greatest war in human history.

It's very, very hard to argue against that. Yeah, if you're like handing out the accolades to the greatest jurors, you know, so the SS biographer, well, I'm examining very, very close on what he's doing on a day by day basis, how he's behaving, what he's saying. Plans and okay, plans go wrong, mistakes are made, but yeah, no, he's very, very impressive character to follow his action in detail.

So in the end, I'm one of those of come round to view that Zhukov was certainly the greatest Soviet general of the Second World War.

And possibly the greatest ally of the general of the Second World War as well. Marshall Zhukov is surely the embodiment of the ultimate Soviet soldier. Humble, peasant beginnings, talent, discipline, drive, coolness under pressure, and importantly, unflinching loyalty. They also saw him a sense of a pinnacle of military command. He was also like all great commanders, I cannot overstate this. Lacky. He was in the right place the right time.

He won a victory at Calcine goal as many of his comrades were struggling in the forests of Finland. Stalin's purge took the lives of thousands, but presented him with opportunities for advancement. Zhukov was a commander forged in the white heat of military disaster. The Soviet Union needed victory. He gave it to them. He imposed order on the most confusing and complex battlefields.

He faced down the greatest crisis and turned it into victory. His reputation as the savior of Moscow in 1941 was reinforced by the campaign he led at Stalin grad and cursed. And later, he achieved decisive victories. From there he expelled German forces from Ukraine and led the final assault on Berlin in 1945. He proved himself time and again. His success, though, was paid for in blood. The men who served under him suffered terribly.

He could be ruthless. He was willing to pursue victory at the heaviest of prices. Although, by the brutal measure of the eastern front, he was no worse than any of his contemporaries. He wasn't just called upon on the battlefield. He was just as useful in the political emergency. Whether it was Stalin in the war years or Christchurch during the political vacuum of the 1950s, Zhukov was equal to the task. Even if, in the end, it was that capability that proved too much for both Stalin and Christchurch.

“Zhukov, I think, certainly as a claim to being the greatest Soviet general of the Second World War,”

possibly the greatest ally of the entire conflict. He was, without a doubt, instrumental in winning the greatest series of campaigns in human history.

His biography Stalin is general. The life of Yogi Zhukov is essential reading, and he's just written another book. His latest work is wartime letters Kathleen Harman.

“Now, they are really interesting, and they include that fascinacy Irish counter the victory parade, which I described at the start of the episode.”

This was the fifth in our commander's series. Next Monday brings us up to the final episode.

We're going to wrap up the series by discussing the best of the rest. The ones who didn't get a look in.

“Who are the other Second World War Commanders that you think should be on the list? Who would have missed out?”

To find out, make sure you hit following your podcast player right now so you don't miss a thing. Thank you so much for listening.

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