The Cold Case of Nancy Snow

crime junkie is all of that and more.

“I'm Ashley Flowers, and I'm Brett, and every Monday we dissect some of the most mysterious”

cases. But listen, we're not just rehashing what you can read for yourself online. We have a team of dedicated investigative reporters and producers who I work with for months on every single episode. But the show still feels like having a conversation with your best friend if your best friend

was attractive. But like a good detective. So join us and tune in to crime junkie every Monday wherever you get your podcast. November 4th, 1980 was an election that changed America.

The polls were still open on the West Coast when NBC's John Chancellor called the race. Reagan is our projected winner Ronald Wilson Reagan of California. Across the country, Republicans were toasting their win. In Baltimore, Maryland, 44-year-old Nancy Snow was celebrating at a victory party. Occasions like this were her sweet spot, Kimberly, Justin and Stacy Snow are her daughters.

She was just so full of light, she was so amazing.

“She always made you feel like you were the most important person in the room.”

Those memories of their mother are vivid. They are also frozen in time because not long after that party ended, Nancy Snow vanished. I have been obsessed my entire life with finding my mom, you go down these rabbit holes and you spend years just researching, researching, researching. This kind of takes over your life, doesn't it? Oh, absolutely.

Nancy's missing person's case is one of the oldest and maybe the oldest at the Amapolis Police Department. And her daughters cannot understand why. They seem too obvious if something happened, why couldn't they solve it. They are convinced they know who is responsible for their mother's disappearance. The detective assigned to Nancy's case has his eye on someone too.

He's still alive.

“So to me, no one's gotten away with anything until they're unavailable for prosecution.”

To tell Nancy's story, we had to reach back into the distant past. But that's where things got unexpectedly personal for me. I had a strong sense when I heard her name that I had met your mom. Wow. People talk a lot about six degrees of separation.

It turned out there are fewer than that between Nancy Snow and myself. I'm Josh Mankowitz and this is Missing in America, a podcast from Date Line. This episode is the cold case of Nancy Snow. Please listen closely, because you or someone you know may have information that could help Nancy Snow's family find the answers they're still looking for.

In her daughter's memories, Nancy Snow is a young and vibrant mother whose energy was boundless. She was fearless and she was really funny. That's Kimberly, the baby of the family, and Justin is the middle sister. She loved adventures, she loved travel.

Stacy is the oldest. My mom, not only spoke English and French, but she knew German, she knew Portuguese, Spanish, Greek, Italian, and she knew some Russian because part of my dad's job was to deal with Russian dignitaries back in the day. Their father Bob Snow was an army intelligence officer who also worked in the foreign service.

His career took the family across the globe and Nancy relished her life abroad. She shared the family's exploits with relatives back in the States. It was the era of letters, postcards, and cassette tapes. I thought rather than try to write to tonight, I'd need to win of these quick tapes. In the spring of 1973, Nancy sent her father this recording from Berlin.

I've never seen a big city, so full of parks and trees and gardens and flowers, and it is just breathtaking,

beautiful. By early fall 1974, the snows had moved back to the States and settled in Carmel, California.

Justin says her mom was always volunteering for something.

“San Castle Contest, Pumpkin Carving Contest, Field Trips.”

She was volunteering and she was bringing you along. She was bringing us along. She was full and busy, but beneath the surface, Nancy was restless. In 1978, she and Bob separated, and Nancy moved into a condo in downtown Carmel. It was so devastating for me.

It was the first heartbreak of my entire life. About a year later, Nancy shook things up once more. She announced she was moving to Annapolis, Maryland. What did she say about moving to these coasts?

Why did she want to do that?

Politics. She wanted to get into politics at big time. She began working for the Republican National Committee, traveling and making connections

“in the big leagues of national politics.”

In June 1980, her divorce became final, and later that summer, Nancy moved to an apartment at 91 East Street in downtown Annapolis. She was close to the harbor, and she enlisted a man named Paul Collins to help her with the move. They dated casually and stayed friends.

It was a scramble because the RNC was sending Nancy to Missouri to work on candidate Jean

McNairi's Senate campaign.

She would be based in St. Louis for two months, and Paul was going to house it for her. She asked him if he could just please just watch over the apartment, just make sure everything is okay, it doesn't get broken into. Nancy set a steady stream of letters in postcards to all three of her daughters while she was in St. Louis.

Her tone in those dispatches is loving and playful. Her paragraphs are sprinkled with smiley faces and exclamation points. Here's Kimberly, describing a postcard she received. She complimented my ninth grade photo from school. She said it was merely fantastic calling caps, and noted that I was smiling in it and said

a first, I think. Her daughters, who were by then 14, 15, and 19 years old, were happy and so was she. Because right around then, is when some kind of romantic lightning struck Nancy snow. In a letter, Nancy wrote to Stacey in September 1980, "She shared this piece of news, quote, "I must tell you I am deliriously in love with a big-time political TV producer

from Baltimore, probably won't last but for the moment. We're bonkers, meet," unquote. In the 1980 Drew Closer, meaning Nancy would soon face some choices. When the McNary for Senate campaign ended, she would be out of a job. What would she do next?

“What would become of her relationship with that new man?”

And would she stay in anapolis? Nancy told her daughters, "She was sure about this. She wanted to get out of politics and try something different, like working and living on the water." She said, "I'm just going to start her charter business.

I'm going to run the show. I'm going to take people to the islands and I'm going to live a peaceful life. She actually told me that." Financially, Nancy was in a position to make some big choices. Her father's recent death had given her an inheritance.

When she had money from the divorce, Nancy seemed serious about this change of course. In a letter to Kimberly, she mentioned a job prospect on a boat, as a cook, Kimberly read me and excerpt. Paul seems to think I have the boat cook job in my pocket. It's a 52-foot swan, a big boat.

It's supposed to go between Fort Lauderdale and the islands. I don't know if I'll take it or not. Whatever hesitation may have involved Stacey, who was set on going to the University of Maryland for college, and she was going to live with Nancy. She planned to come to Annapolis after Nancy returned from St. Louis.

"Let's recap the son of the race that's which we've been able to project so far tonight first of all." On November 4th, election day, Nancy's candidate Jean McNary was losing his Senate race, but Republicans were on the verge of a big win nationally. She's family says she called them in Carmel before she left St. Louis, and told them

she was going to a political event that night in Baltimore, and would call again when she

On November 5th, Nancy did not call again, as she had promised.

“A couple more days went by and there was still no word from her.”

Now in 1980, cell phones barely existed, and it was not unusual for people to go days without calling, unless you were Nancy snow. Justine urged her father to check with Nancy's house sitter Paul Collins. Maybe he knew where she was. "So my dad did call and talked to Paul Collins, and he said that my mom had gone on this

boat trip, and she'll be home by Christmas." Justine says Paul told her father not to worry, because Nancy was sailing with friends of a friend. Christmas came and went, and Nancy had not returned. Stacey went ahead with her plans to fly to Maryland.

She arrived two days after Christmas, and Paul picked her up from the airport. When they got to Nancy's apartment, Stacey expected him to hand over the keys, but she says he did not. "He goes, "No, no, I stay here.

“I'm watching the house, and I'm like, "What?”

You go, "Yeah, I sleep in your mom's room, and I'm like, "What?"

Stacey had just met Paul for the first time at the airport.

She was not happy with the arrangement, but felt she did not really have a choice. A few more days went by with no sign of Nancy, and by now Stacey was really worried. So Paul said he'd alert the coast guard to keep an eye out for Nancy, and then he suggested they take a road trip to look for Nancy themselves. He heard that if we go down to Fort Lauderdale, where he thinks Mom got on a boat,

we could talk to the Fort Lauderdale police. He goes, "So let's drive down there, and let's check it out." Paul and Stacey piled into Nancy's turquoise Volkswagen Beetle, and drove through the night, down I-95 to Fort Lauderdale. When they got there, more than 16 hours later, Paul went to the police station to

file a missing person's report.

“Stacey walked around town, showing people photos of Nancy, and asking if they'd seen”

her. No one had. A few days later, they drove back to Maryland. Stacey says a few of Paul's friends were hanging around the apartment, and that made her uncomfortable.

They would come over, and they would be smoking, pod, they would be doing stuff, and that's not my thing. Stacey decided to go back to California. She says Paul told her he had also filed a missing person's report with the Annapolis Police, which meant two police departments in two states would be on the lookout for

Nancy. Soon, the search for Nancy's snow would shift to international waters, and become a quest to find another person, a mysterious character, known as Captain J. Let's talk about the Captain J story. Okay.

Anybody ever speak with him? The answer to that question is complicated. I don't know what you'd come to expect from a true crime podcast, but I guarantee you, crime junkie is all of that, and more. I'm Ashley Flowers, and I'm Brett, and every Monday, we dissect some of the most mysterious

cases. But listen, we're not just rehashing what you can read for yourself online. We have a team of dedicated investigative reporters and producers who I work with for months on every single episode. But the show still feels like having a conversation with your best friend if your best friend

was attractive, but like a good detective. So join us and tune into crime junkie every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. April, 1981 Nancy Snow's family had not heard from her for more than five months. By then her daughters were certain she was not on a boat trip in the Caribbean, because deep in their bones, they knew their mother would absolutely have told them all about

it.

She would let us know she always kept us informed.

While three daughters knew how much Nancy was looking forward to Stacey coming to live with her in anapolis. She talked me into moving out there and going to college there instead of California. Why would she just then just go poof, you know? At the very least, Stacey, she would have said to you, "Hey, plans have changed.

I'm looking at this boat job." Exactly. With her mother missing, Stacey scrapped her plans to attend the University of Maryland. Now, she faced the task of moving Nancy's belongings back to California.

up the apartment.

“As they were making their plans, Nancy's house sitter Paul Collins phoned with some bad news.”

Paul called my father and me and said, "You don't need to come out because I hate to tell you this so as a terrible flood and your mom lost everything." To Stacey, that made zero sense.

Nancy's apartment was on the third floor of a brownstone and there were no reports of a

biblical level flood in anapolis. Of course, it was possible a water pipe at Burst, but Paul had not said that. And to Stacey, enter father, the timing of the call seemed suspicious. So Stacey called the Anapolis police. And that is when she learned something that's stunned her.

It turned out, Paul Collins had not reported Nancy missing to local police back in January. After they'd returned from Fort Lauderdale. You took his word for it. Yeah? I mean, you're 18.

You know, you're expecting adults to do the right thing. Stacey had barely absorbed this news when she got a call that set off moral armbells. A friend in anapolis said she'd seen someone driving Nancy's car, and had spotted friends of Paul Collins wearing Nancy's clothes. Stacey got on a plane and headed to Maryland.

By then, Paul Collins had filed a missing person's report with anapolis police, but only two days before Stacey arrived on the East Coast, and five and a half months after Nancy's disappearance. When that document, Collins told police he had reported Nancy missing in Fort Lauderdale in January, and did not know he needed to file another report with anapolis authorities.

By that time, Paul had moved out of Nancy's apartment on East Street. Stacey says when she and her godfather went there to check on Nancy's belongings, police came with them. The landlord unlocked the door.

So the police had me stand in the hallway, and they came in first.

After the officers checked out the apartment, Stacey walked in, and her heart sank. There was nothing, nothing there. Stacey says her mother's clothes and furniture were gone, so were the belonging Stacey had shipped from California for college. Other than a small amount of food in the refrigerator, the apartment was empty.

There was no sign of that flood Paul had mentioned either.

“So why were Nancy's belongings missing, and where were they?”

Stacey says she and her godfather, along with police, tracked down some of the people who had her mother's possessions, which Paul Collins had apparently given away. At one point, they visited a woman who was a friend of Paul's, and who, when she opened the door to Stacey, was wearing Nancy's night gown. She was wearing my mother's night gown, my mother's night gown, and we go upstairs, and

they're eating off my mother's plates. They're watching TV on my mother's TV, they're sleeping on my mother's bed. None of that supported the story that Nancy had left on a boat adventure, and was planning to return in late December. It was quite the opposite.

Everything Stacey had seen and heard only deep into her god feeling. That something terrible had happened to her mother. Police wanted to ask Paul Collins more questions, but according to the case file, they had trouble locating him in the months after he filed that report in Annapolis. That station ID was part of the soundtrack of my life in April 1981.

Right around what Annapolis police were first learning that Nancy's snow was missing.

I was a very green TV reporter at W.J.L.A. Channel 7 in Washington, DC, about 35 miles from Annapolis.

“I don't remember if I did stories about Nancy's case, but it is the kind of thing we”

covered, which could explain why all these years later. When we at Dateline decided to feature Nancy's story in missing in America, Nancy's name and face seemed familiar to me. There is another possible explanation. Before I went to W.J.L.A., I was an off-air reporter for ABC News, a sign to National

Politics. I very closely covered the 1980 campaign, especially the Congressional and Senate races. As I told Nancy's daughters, given their mother's work in politics, it is quite possible,

I had a strong sense when I heard her name that I had met your mom at some point.

Wow. Now, I'm not telling you that I remember meeting her or that we were friends or that I can tell you what the interaction was, but we were absolutely in the same circles that year.

“So when I definitely did not encounter back then, is Corporal William Noelle?”

When Nancy snow went missing, he was three years old. Today he's the monopolist police detective working to solve her case. He's gone through the case file, including the missing persons report Paul Collins made in April 1981. So early part of November 1980, we had Nancy returning from all accounts to pretty

grueling stretch of campaign work. You're convinced that was her on the plane. She flew from St. Louis to Baltimore. Yes, I'm convinced. Piecing together Nancy's movements after she left the airport was a challenge for an apple

as police, especially because by the time Paul Collins reported Nancy missing to

“them, the trail was more than five months old.”

All of the sort of traditional avenues of investigation that we think of first today when

we're trying to find somebody or figure out where they were, you know, tracking their phone, getting their emails off their computer, doorbell cameras, license plate readers, security video at the airport, none of that existed. There are, and the lack of a footprint for such a busy woman is in today's terms just unthinkable, but it was an norm.

There are conflicting accounts of when Nancy returned to Maryland from Missouri. However, our reporting points to her being in the Baltimore area on election night. In his April 1981 missing persons report, Paul Collins told police, when Nancy returned to Maryland on November 4th.

She stayed with a friend named Bobby at a "Fancy Hotel near Towson."

Towson is a suburb of Baltimore, and Bobby was Bobby Goodman, the political TV producer Nancy had written about to Stacy. He's the man Nancy said she was deliriously in love with. The same man who hosted the party she went to on election night. He's also someone I knew back when I was a political reporter.

Back in the '70s and '80s, Bobby Goodman was a very big deal in the world of political campaigning and advertising. His son was my college classmate, so I knew him too. Police knew Bobby Goodman played some part in Nancy Snow's last recorded days.

“The question was, what part, and whether he wanted to talk about it?”

Was the boyfriend married at the time? I believe there's indication that he may have done. According to the April 1981 state when Paul Collins gave police, Nancy asked him to meet her on November 5th at that "Fancy Hotel" where she was staying. Paul told the detective he did not remember its name.

Paul says he waits for her in the lobby. And he sees her possibly traveling in a green BMW and a gentleman driving that BMW and at which point Nancy gets out of that car and joins Paul for the return trip back to anapolis. Corporal Noel says the original case detectives interviewed Nancy's boyfriend, Bobby Goodman,

who corroborated parts of the story told by Paul Collins. And he was helpful. Yeah, he was helpful. The detectives at the time, they were satisfied. Paul told police that after picking up Nancy, they stayed at her apartment in anapolis for a couple of days.

Then he said, something significant happened on November 8th in the middle of the night. According to Paul, Nancy had gone to a local bar a couple of blocks from her apartment. The 330 AM she came home and said she was going to drive in a van to Fort Lauderdale with a boat captain she had met that night. His name was Jay and they would be transporting boats between islands in the Caribbean

and Fort Lauderdale. Paul said Nancy's plan was to return sometime between December 17th and December 27th. November, he told Nancy's family she would be back by Christmas.

of east and fleet streets near her apartment.

“The report does not mention if Paul saw Nancy drive away.”

Noel says police started looking for the mysterious Captain Jay. Their search stretched from Maryland to the Caribbean, law enforcement in Fort Lauderdale assisted. The Anapolis Police Department called in anyone they could give an opportunity to the Naval Academy. They used resources to call Coast Guard, Naval Records, anyone that may have set foot on a ship

or vessel with a name or nickname Jay. But it sounds as if one investigator was onto something. A police report filed in Fort Lauderdale, May 6, 1981, notes that one Anapolis detective believed Captain Jay was actually a man he said had been the subject of a drug investigation by the DEA.

Is it in the files whether he was ever spoken to and whether he acknowledged knowing

Nancy?

“So I didn't see any interview or any contact being made with him.”

Back in 1981, even as the hunt for Captain Jay continued, investigators kept their focus on Paul Collins and something he said in that missing person's report caught their eye. He had told police he and Nancy were close friends and casual lovers who at one point had dated for about six months. Police wondered if their relationship might have been more complicated than Paul described.

Justine met Paul while she was with her mom in anapolis. He was 15 years younger than Nancy and justine did not think he was her mother's type. And I was like, what is your attraction to this guy and she's like, well, I'm not attracted to him. It's just that he's helpful.

You know, he's a handyman and he's easy because I don't have to think too hard when I talk to him. Those were her exact words.

“Okay, but there was clearly a time when they were, I don't know, involved might not be”

the right word, but seeing each other dating something was going on. I mean, they were casual drinking buddies. Stacy had a different impression. My takeaway with Paul is that my mother was kind of enamored with the fact that a younger man was schmoozing her and she had a weakness that way with men outside my dad.

And she didn't make some good choices after my dad. In that April 1981 missing persons report, Paul told police, Stacy gave him permission to put most of Nancy's belongings in storage and to sell some items to pay off her debts. Stacy says, that is not true, police subpoenaed Nancy's bank records and discovered Paul was writing checks on her account.

Corporal Noel says, from a law enforcement standpoint, the fact that Paul was Nancy's house center complicated the picture. Paul maintained that he had that permission to pay her bills, give himself a quick stipend as needed. The issue is, we have nobody to refute it because Nancy's missing and we don't have any

way to confirm with her that those things were true or not. Your convinced that Paul Collins was continuing to pay Nancy's bills after she disappeared. We have records of some of the canceled checks where he did pay some bills. Corporal Noel says, Paul Collins did not have access to all of Nancy's accounts and he was not withdrawing huge sums of money at a time from her checking account.

Maybe once a month, once every other month there was an amount drawn to him, he never

withdrew an amount that was say, okay, he's taken off or he's trying to clean out her account. One of the things Mr. Collins apparently told Nancy's daughter was that there had been a flood in her apartment building and a lot of her stuff got ruined and he had to throw it out.

Yes. Was there a flood in her building? We have not been able to corroborate whether a flood occurred or didn't. He's told conflicting stories about when he reported her missing. He's given away her possessions.

He's right and checks on her account. That's not enough to arrest somebody. The state's attorney couldn't persuade a jury. That's a separate conversation. In the investigative world, circumstances great, it lets you know you're on the right path.

But in terms of handing that baton off to the prosecutor, they have a set of needs that they have to have kind of lined up before they say, hey, we'll bring this to a grand jury.

Stacy returned to California with the belonging she recovered from Paul's friends

“and then joined her sisters who'd moved overseas with their father, stepmother, and”

step siblings. Bob Snow, Nancy's ex-husband, had a new job in Germany. You all came to believe that whatever had happened, she wouldn't lie anymore. Of course.

She would never not call us.

Nancy's teenage daughters remained determined to find out the truth about her disappearance. They just had no idea how long that quest would last. Nancy's case files stayed open and someone besides Paul Collins stayed on the law enforcement radar, a detective at the county prosecutors office would be paying another visit to Nancy's boyfriend, Bobby Goodman.

You spoke with him. Yes, I did. Cooperative? Cooperative in the sense that he was very, very careful with his thoughts and his words. Hey, guys, Willie guys here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sitdown podcast.

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of unforgettable roles from the hangover movies to the cult favorite show community and his latest in the Netflix cultural sensation K-pop demon hunters. I can find our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts. In 1994, 26 year old Shelley Julesson vanished without a trace from Bismarck. In the series, Call Me Shelley Dakota Spotlight podcast asks, "Who was harassing Shelley

Julesson? Why are a hundred pages of her police file missing? Join Dakota Spotlight podcast and exploring what happened to Shelley Julesson. Call me Shelley is now also a documentary film, search Dakota Spotlight or visit callmeshellyfilm.com." Hi, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of the NBC News podcast The Drink.

And this month, I'm having Mojito's with comedian Eric Andre.

Was I a little bit worried he might prank me? Absolutely, but he promised he'd behave. Mostly did.

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but typical we talk about his childhood, his brief run in music and the decade he spent hustling in New York City before his hit TV show changed everything. It's a conversation peppered with humor, but also a real look at the path behind his larger than life persona. We hope you'll join us for the drink, listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.

In 1988, Nancy Snow was legally declared dead and a year later at the urging of her daughters. Nancy's case was reclassified as a homicide. David Cordofe of the Anna-Rundal County State Saturney's office caught it and during the nearly 30 years Cordofe work Nancy's case, he chased hundreds of leads and re-interviewed

dozens of witnesses. One of those interviews was with Bobby Goodman, Nancy's new boyfriend at the time of her disappearance and as far as police can tell, one of the last two people to see her alive. You spoke with him? Yes, I did.

Cooperative? Cooperative in the sense that he was very, very careful with the thoughts on his words. We interviewed him at his home and his wife was present, so I had to make sure that we

“were kind of segregated from her, but I think that may have had something to do with his”

reluctance, but overall he was cooperative. Cordofe says Goodman's wife was briefly inside the house while the two men talked outside on a patio about the evening of November 4th, 1980 and the next day. He confirmed that he was having an affair with Nancy. Yes, but maybe not to the extent that Nancy was perceiving it.

He spent the night with Nancy from the original reports and stories from witnesses. Yes. And they had breakfast together the next morning. That's correct. Then he reports Nancy getting in a car with Paul Collins.

He couldn't identify who she got into a car with because he did not know who it was. He just saw a male subject with Nancy getting into this car and driving off and that's the last, that the witness says he saw over. Of course Cordofe says he was eager to interview Paul Collins too, but unlike Goodman, Paul

I think I spoke briefly with him on the phone.

“Anything else he chose not to talk with us, numerous attempts had been made.”

In 2005 Paul Collins was subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury. His attorney notified prosecutors that Collins would invoke his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. He got an attorney and he didn't speak with you and he wouldn't speak with the grand jury. Correct.

Four years later, Collins did agreed to speak with a detective and a prosecutor under a use immunity deal. Meaning anything he told them could not be used against him, but he could still be charged if they found other evidence to connect him to Nancy's murder. With his attorney present, Collins sat for a two-hour interview which was not recorded.

According to a written summary by the detective who conducted the interview, Collins gave a brand new account of his interactions with Nancy. The detective wrote, quote, "I asked Paul Collins to tell me what he remembers about picking Nancy snow up when she returned from Missouri. He advised that his memory is that he picked her up at BWI airport arrivals.

I told Paul Collins that he had previously said that he picked Nancy snow up at a hotel in a thousand and that he saw her get out of a car. I further told him that he had previously told us the make and color of said car.

“Paul Collins advised that he does not remember any of that and that in his memory, he picked”

her up at BWI airport. Unquote. According to the detective, Collins also said Nancy returned from St. Louis one or two days after the 1980 election, not on election day as he had told the police in his original missing persons report.

Over the years, Stacey, Justin and Kimberly have spent countless hours replaying what they say Paul Collins told their father about a boat trip back in November 1980 when they had not heard from Nancy for days. He was trying to make it sound like my mom went off with friends.

Not strangers so that we wouldn't worry, like that was his first contact with my dad.

That is what Nancy's family says Paul Collins first told them. But more than five and a half months later, Paul told police a different story. That version had Nancy running off with the elusive Captain Jay, not with friends. He made it clear that he did not know who these people were, that he did not know this captain Jay.

He told investigators he knew nothing about it until that night when my mom told them. Corporal William Noelle, the Anapolis detective now trying to solve Nancy's case, does not believe this 44-year-old mystery has anything to do with a Captain Jay. You don't think Nancy ever went to see. You don't think Nancy ever got on a boat.

You don't think she made it out of anapolis. You know to all.

“You think she died the day that Paul Collins picked her up?”

I believe that whatever happened Nancy snow happened very soon after she was picked up from that hotel in the Baltimore area. Bobby Goodman died in 2018, leaving investigators without one of their key witnesses. Was there was the boyfriend ever a suspect that investigators reporting from anything I've seen

at the time, never indicated him as a firm suspect?

The only person that drew the raised eyebrow of anybody that investigated this case is Mr. Collins. Corporal Noelle wanted to sort through all those inconsistencies in Paul Collins stories among other things and in March 2021 Paul Collins agreed to talk with Noelle by phone. Tell me about that call.

It was brief, but Paul struck me as somebody who is very familiar with how investigations go. I want to say he was cooperative in so much that it served him and then when we get to the nuts and bolts of are you available to speak with me, he advised me that he wouldn't be doing that and that he wished her family, her daughters, nothing but the best and that if I

could to offer them some words of comfort and I told him I wouldn't do that. I could set up a call but I wouldn't do that on his behalf and that pretty much ended our conversation. Paul Collins remains a person of interest?

But not a suspect. But I will say that he's a person of interest, nearly a suspect, but I can't say that he's a suspect because right now we're certain I don't have my PC yet. By PC he means probable cause. The build of criminal case, detectives and prosecutors need to establish evidence that

a crime was committed.

“If Paul Collins killed Nancy Snow, what was the motive?”

We have to theorize that out in the open, but it's not unknown that Paul was romantically fond of Nancy, it's unclear what the nature of their relationship was after an initial

courting of Nancy by Paul and from all indications, Nancy saw him as basically a nice guy

but not a guy she wanted to have a relationship with. And very clearly it seems she was much more interested in the guy in Baltimore. Yes. And she met at the hotel. Correct.

So maybe Paul Collins is angry that she's not interested in him or maybe Paul Collins wants to get his hands on the money that Nancy is recently inherited. There's a possibility of some jealousy that he's not the main guy in her life. It could be a financial desire on his part. The issue for me as an investigator is getting in front of Paul Collins in a setting where

he would even talk to me about it and that's where we've run into a pretty big brick wall.

Paul Collins has never been arrested or charged with anything connected to Nancy Snow's disappearance.

He is now 74 years old and living near Washington, D.C. We reached out to him and he has not responded to our requests for comment.

“Do you think you're going to eventually solve the disappearance of Nancy Snow?”

You know, I really would like to deliver that for her family and for Nancy. I think I've got enough years left at the agency to see it through. Any cold case detective will tell you this. Time is both their enemy and their friend. With every passing year, evidence can get lost.

Witnesses can die. Memories can fade. And also over time, witnesses, and sometimes even perpetrators can change in unexpected ways. David Kordel, who labored over Nancy's case for almost three decades, knows that firsthand. I've seen it before over a period of time, relationships change.

People grow up, people grow old, people get religion. People want to get things off their chest. And sometimes the alibi I gave you X number of years ago, I'm no longer going to lie for you. Absolutely. That's what you're hoping for here.

Absolutely. As the years passed, all of Nancy Snow's daughters got married and became mothers themselves. Today, their own mother would be 88 years old, making it 44 years since any of them have heard her say their names. All they have now are those cassette tapes Nancy left behind.

I was concerned about justine and Kimberly not being, you know, strong swimmers yet. So I have a young man who's a night guard at the pool, working with some three times a week. Kimberly, in one lesson, has learned to swim. And justine is coming right along to, which so pleased with both of them, now Stacey already knows how to swim and she's going off the board and doing all kinds of tricks and things.

She would sing me to sleep, she would read me stories and I think maybe most of all, I really miss that point. Sorry. I think what my sisters don't realize is when I listen to them talk, when I don't see them and I listen to them, they sound like my mom.

I hear her through some of their mannerisms and what they say and how they say it and their intonations, I can hear it. Your mom wouldn't have wanted this to take over your life. No, I don't think so.

“That's why I try to change and become the mother that she was to me for my kids and pour”

my love and my heart and my time into them and make mold them to be like my mom because

she was so amazing and I have her pictures all over the house and I tell stories all the

time and I wanted to pass on her spirit to others. Like her sister Stacey, Kimberly holds on to the things her mother gave her that can't be taken away. She just believed that I was extraordinary and that I was capable of anything. So I think of all the things that she taught me, I think the most powerful is how to

soak in the life around me.

“We let Justin in have the final word because what she told us goes for her sisters too.”

I want justice to be served. I want to know the truth.

I will never stop looking for our mom.

Here is how you can help. Nancy Snow was 44 years old at the time of her disappearance in 1980. She was 5 foot 6 on 120 pounds with blue gray eyes and short graying dark hair.

“If you have any information about her disappearance, please call the Anapolis Police Department”

at 410-268-9000 and ask for Corporal William Noel. To learn more about other people we've covered in our Missing in America series and to see photos of Nancy Snow, go to dateline-missinginamerica.com. There you'll be able to submit cases you think we should cover in the future. Thanks for listening.

See you Fridays on dateline on NBC. Missing in America is a production of dateline and NBC News. Cape Videc is the producer of this episode. Marshall Housefell is the audio editor. Veronica Mazica is digital producer.

Nicholas Vinuela Yodar is a associate producer. Bradley Davis is senior producer. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer. From NBC News Audio, sound mixing by Rich Cutler. Wilson Barnes is head of audio production.

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