The Ongoing Search for Answers — A 'Missing in America' Panel

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The moment a body is found, the clock starts ticking. 48 hours.

“That's how long detectives have before the trail begins to go cold.”

From A&E in crime house, this is the official podcast from the famous true crime series the first 48.

Step inside the critical window, the interrogations, the dead ends, and the breakthroughs

that crack a case wide open, on Carter Roy. Each week I revisit a landmark homicide investigation with the depth you know and immersive long form storytelling built for your ears. Real detectives, real cases, real stakes. This is the first 48.

New episodes every Thursday. Listen to and follow the first 48 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you this into podcasts. 12 years ago this week, we at Dateline posed a simple question on social media.

“Have you ever known someone who has gone missing?”

We did not expect that the response would be overwhelming. Since then, Dateline has covered hundreds of missing persons cases for our online digital series, and for the podcast it's spawned, both called missing in America. I need to answer, I'm her only voice. Each story is different, however, when you speak with the people involved, the parents,

the siblings, the friends, you will hear some column threats, heartbreak, confusion, and often a determination that does not fade with time. Anybody somewhere knows what happened. Missing in America began as a way to shine a light on the stories of the missing. Now four seasons in, we gathered some of the people we met along the way to find out what

they have learned in an often agonizing search for answers, and what advice they have for others walking the same difficult path.

“I'm Josh Mankowitz, and this is after the verdict, a series for our Dateline premium subscribers.”

I want to welcome all of you to this special panel. This is family members, this is advocates, this is a former detective. So just to get everybody up to speed, Sue Quack and Bush is the mother of Daniel Lopez. She disappeared last year in Central New Jersey. She was agonizing and overwhelming tragic and unfair.

They enthralled them as a retired detective in the Cumberland County, North Carolina, and she investigated the disappearance of a guy named Kent Jacobs. In the perfect world, there would be a detective assigned to missing person cases. Rachel, Rachel Barth was a close friend of a guy named Tyler Goodrich, and he disappeared from Nebraska, and was subsequently found, although not alive, unfortunately, but at least

there is a sort of semi-answer to that. He was found about 1,000 yards from his house, and so that was really tough to deal with. Colleen Nick is the mother of Morgan Nick who disappeared from Arkansas. It's not just that we lose someone that we love, but the world loses the potential of who that person is.

And also my friend, Raven Payment, who I met just recently at the CrimeCon, and she is an advocate from Colorado's MMI, our task force, she's worked on a lot of these issues. Unfortunately, most of our family members are all too familiar with this pain in this circumstance. Travis Ware, you're the brother of Alexis Ware, and she disappeared from South Carolina.

Well, everybody, take us back to sort of the first 48 hours.

The first moments when somebody disappears because Travis, I mean, a lot of people are told what you were told, which is what you got to wait two days. And that happened to you, didn't that? It did, unfortunately, and I just have to say those first two days was awful. My sister is not the one to go missing or disappear or run away from her kids.

do anything other than post on social media says she's missing, we couldn't file the police

report. We had to wait.

“Thank God, I have to social media following that I have to really push her story out”

and bring awareness in, really get the ball going. Colleen, you probably didn't even have social media when this began. No, Morgan was kidnapped in 1995, we were visiting in a neighboring community at a baseball game, and she at the very end of the game went to catch fireflies with two other children when she was taken.

We were one block away from the police department, and they responded immediately. They had 10 separate agencies on site that night. We had an enormous app pouring of resources and response, but there was no technology back then at one point someone got a fax machine hooked up so that it would fax continually so that Morgan's a flyer would be faxed out.

The media was there the first night, and they said very compassionately to us, we're going

to have Morgan's face on TV first thing Saturday morning, but that was 12 hours, more than 12 hours after she was taken, we just did not have those kind of resources that we have now. You guys tell me what you agree with us, now we do have those resources, and yet it sometimes takes like, it feels like it takes an active god to get them deployed.

Then I don't want to make you the target for everybody who has anything to say about law enforcement, because I thought the work that we documented that you did was exceptional and heartfelt and you're retired now. But why do you think it is that in so many jurisdictions when parents, for example, walk

“in and say, my child is missing, or my adult child is missing?”

What they're told is why don't we wait and see if they come back because they're an adult then I don't have to get in touch with you right now if they don't want to. I think in a case like that, I agree with this 48 hours thing, that's just not right. If a person is missing in a family member comes in, I think it should be actively investigated right then, cases grow cold, typically in about 48 hours.

Well by the time you've waited 48 hours, you've lost all kinds of evidence, another problem could be, especially in smaller departments. There's not enough manpower or enough hours in the day to investigate the crimes that come through, and I know some of you've probably heard that. That's one of the things that we run into again and again, which is like, should police

departments even be the vehicle for looking for missing people because they're not really that well set up to do that. Right.

“In the perfect world, there would be a detective assigned to missing person cases, whether”

it's children, whether it's adult, and that could be their focus constantly. Yeah, there's no police officer comes out of the academy saying, I really want to work in missing persons, right. You know, this is not the most desirable assignment within law enforcement, and that kind of is a problem because you're going to need somebody on this who's going to work pretty

hard. Yes, yes you are. I know that my case I picked it up when I was in homicide. Good Jacob's vanished from Hope Mills, North Carolina in March of 2022, man worked on his case tirelessly.

It was assigned to the homicide division probably five months after he was missing. I got down to where I would work on it every Friday. One of the family members came in and said, you're only working on this case on Fridays, and I thought I'd done a great job clearing all my cases so I could work on it on Fridays. When I told him that he just looked so defeated, and then I looked defeated because I'm

thinking, I've cleared my calendar for every Friday to work on this case. Which is a huge thing when you have other cases. Yes, but to a family who's in English, who's angry, who's upset, who's frustrated, it wasn't okay. So I agree there needs to be a better system somehow set up.

Rachel, you did something that I always advise families to do, which is you didn't wait

for the police. No, I did not. Tell me what you did and sort of how people maybe could learn from that. Sure, so Tyler went missing on a Friday night, and it was kind of that next day when most of us had found out, hey, like he didn't come home, he's not answering his phone.

We weren't exactly sure where he had went, and he left on foot. And so that was hard because we weren't tracking a vehicle, we were tracking him. And so really that weekend right away, the one of the first things we did was started creating missing persons posters. I pulled the picture off of his Facebook page.

some of his tattoo photos that I had, or friends that had of him, and just put details

“on there where he was last seen what we think he was doing, and we started firing neighborhoods”

and knocking on doors and asking random people if we could see their ring doorbells. We created a Facebook page, and I would say within days, we were up to 10, 15, 20,000 people. And that caught the attention of the news media pretty quickly. And so then we were able to mobilize and start creating search parties for him. And he wasn't some well-known guy.

This was all stuff that you guys generated. Yeah, I mean, Tyler was known as far as like, you know, people knew him in the community, but Lincoln's about 350,000 people, but we all grew up in a small town just outside of Lincoln and Bennett Nebraska, which is where most of Tyler's family lives. Tyler lived on kind of the outskirts, and so it was interesting when you talk about law enforcement.

We weren't exactly sure who was going to be covering his case, because he was just kind of right on that county line between it being the county sheriff's department and the Lincoln Police Department.

“I will say, I think our experience probably was a little bit different.”

The sheriff's office did meet with the family weekly. They actually had pulled some of us friends in to review a really greeny video of Tyler running just even identify that with him, and they even have their own podcast. So kudos to our local sheriff's office, and they actually invited myself on in a friend of ours on another friend of ours on, and we talked about Tyler.

I mean, what you're describing is the kind of reaction that almost everybody wants. You're definitely describing a department that was more engaged than we frequently hear about. Can I ask Josh, does Lawrence for us to respond more to the pressure from the media when the media picks up stories? Because my daughter's situation is so similar to a Gabby potato case, and yet it's hard

to get coverage, and I don't know if that helps the police department respond. The pressure I think comes when the media is involved in my wrong with that. Well, I think your local stations, your local paper, I think they have the most influence. We didn't cover Gabby potato at daylight. We're probably one of the few outlets, I think that did not.

“But the truth is, the most traction any of you are going to get or anybody listening to this”

is talking to your local station or your local newspaper or your local radio station or the podcast in town that everybody listens to, because the way people get their news is certainly changing that. I mean, being on the six o'clock news used to be the best way of reaching a lot of people. And in some communities, it might not be anymore.

Travis, you clearly tried very hard to engage with a law enforcement. Yes. And to be honest, a lot of police departments do not take black women, go on, listen, seriously. We won't get the same treatment as when Gabby went missing or when someone else went missing or when another race went missing.

Black women are about six and a half percent of the country.

They're like 19 percent of the missing or higher depending on who you ask, which is astonishing

and it's a number that's not really changing, even though awareness kind of changes. That's true. And it's unfortunate, Raven, are things changing? Like that's a lot of question, it's often we take one step forward and then we're often going to step back locally in Colorado.

We have established a great relationship with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. They take these cases seriously. They are responsive and they go above and beyond when it comes to, for instance, a law enforcement agency, dragging their feet on issuing an alert. They will continuously reach out to remind them that they are the resource to issue the

resource and they're ready to go. But that said, we still continue to face centuries of systemic issues, of bias. Most people assume that native people only live on reservations.

However, 80 percent of us, which in Colorado is roughly 206,000 people live along the front

range. So law enforcement either thinks that we don't exist. When they do think we exist, we then face a lot of stereotypes that were just outpartying. We still have a lot of work to do despite how far we've come. And if you do live our reservation, you've got problems above and beyond what we're even

talking about now. Absolutely. Jurisdictional issues get more complex. So you get all these different law enforcement agencies, jurisdictions involved in a lot of times, they're pointing fingers at each other like, well, that's not my responsibility.

Or it conversely like my hands are tied and I'm not allowed to share information with another agency. And meanwhile, days are going by and this person is still missing. Absolutely. Let me ask all of you this question, but let me start with you, Rachel.

What resources did you want deployed that you now realize would have made a difference?

“So one of the things we did kind of 20-ish days pass was we did hire somebody that had”

the tracking dogs and they were trained. And so she was the past, I think, detective.

I had heard about her through the great vine and finally got a hold of her.

I wish we would have knew about that resource early on to track Tyler since he was on foot and we could have easily gotten articles of clothing. And in fact, his body was out there and the dogs didn't find him. Yeah, yeah. He was found about 1,000 yards from his house.

That was just a question of the trail going cold before the dogs went out. Yeah. And I wish we would have had, you know, I'm learning more about kind of the digital footprint and so I know there are nonprofits and organizations working with one forcement to learn how to track digital footprints and a lot of that is.

Unfortunately, having to work with Google or work with Verizon or work with the cell phone

“towers to get that because a lot of that, you have to have the right people to contact”

and then of course you have to have like maybe a court order to release that information. And so I feel like that bogged us down because Tyler had a cell phone and I phone. He had a smart watch and he'm like, how are we not tracking his watch? How are we not tracking this stuff? And so that was really frustrating to me.

And then I'm finding out afterwards that there is those technologies. So I wish that was something we pushed early on. Sue Travis, Colleen, same question, what do you wish you'd had? What do you wish you knew now? Colleen, you've got to unfortunately 30 years to look back on.

Tell me what you learned. I mean, if we could take one thing back to 1995 that we have now would be all the technology and all the resources that we have. The biggest thing for me is I wish we had to support from the police department. You know, I do think that makes a tremendous difference in cases.

Colleen has been searching for her daughter Morgan since Morgan vanished from all my Arkansas. That was in June of 1995.

And while she's always at the support of her local police department, her organization,

the Morgan Nick Foundation, is working to help families that have not received that same treatment. What we have tried to make it in the interim is the advocating for families to stand in the gap to help them be able to build that communication with law enforcement to bridge the lack of communication that happens like between Travis's family and law enforcement. To be that voice that is trusted by law enforcement and to help them see what it is the family

needs. One of the things that we do is we invite that family and that law enforcement team to our office. And we bring them to the table together and we break bread. We eat a mill together and it literally breaks the barriers down and everybody talks. I was thinking about that and Travis's case, I was thinking if we could just get his family

and law enforcement at a table together and to get them to talk to each other, it would change everything. Literally everything. I would love for that to happen. That's a great idea. I think that's a great idea.

Since we're talking about this, tell me about the Alexis Wear Act. Yes, so the Alexis Wear Act, that's something that our family has really been working very, very hard to get past. The Alexis Wear Act after 12 months, a year, that an individual's family member has been missing, we want it to be turned over to the FBI, have the police department release that case over

to the FBI to have an extra resource that can really help with the family find their loved ones.

And that engagement, that time you spend talking to law enforcement, that's like a second job

or a first job sometimes. So I'm guessing you've saw that first thing at, I mean, the amount of time you spent with them with law enforcement advocating like that, it takes over your life done that. Law enforcement has been great now, was staying in touch with me.

“I think that that would be really hard for me right now if they didn't answer me.”

They do respond pretty directly and calling my heart just breaks for you, a six year old child, my pain is so intense and yet I had 37 years with my daughter. So my heart goes out to you, you're very brave to be on here and to speak and that with us. Thank you. So I appreciate that, but the heart of it is, is that when you lose someone,

you lose someone, it doesn't matter how old they are or if you're their friend or your their family, that hurts, it ripped your heart. It's one of the, I mean, it's the most terrifying thing I've ever walked through in my life.

She's not a newspaper story.

She is a sister, she's a daughter, she's a granddaughter, she's a friend and she deserves the race back to be able to come home. I think one of the, like, kind of sickening things about all of this is when somebody told

“me, you have to market the missing and, you know, that at home because that's major.”

I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm my master's in marketing. I'm a PR person. That's what I've done my whole life. And so, you know, maybe I was the perfect person to help, you know, spearhead finding Tyler, but it's really true. You do have to market the missing because you are taking on responsibility to keep them front and center. And it's crazy, but like, those little stories about them. I think some of the most impactful things that we did was having

like Tyler's dad talk to media because every parent can just like you guys can, you know, the hurt breaks for them because they saw Tyler's dad super sad. They saw us out there, you know, we video, they had people videoing us walking and like crawling through muck and crawling through trees and doing these things and talking about how we were friends with him since kindergarten and telling those stories about him. Tyler was just incredibly

unique as well. He was this, you know, tall athletic white male from Lincoln, Nebraska. And he was gay and he adopted two boys and he was a veteran. And like he just had this really just distinct look to him. And so, and we kind of took advantage of that in a positive way because we had to market Tyler to keep his story relevant because unfortunately those stories do go to the wayside because the next missing person comes up or the next, you know,

whatever happens and you're no longer in the new story anymore. I just offered of my own money at $25,000 reward because there was no more ways to market. I mean, that brings up another topic, which is when families of the missing end up getting scammed by people who realize that there is money to be made out here. I don't think this is a, I don't think this is an unknown topic to any of you.

No scammed terribly with with gruesome details and knowledge and pictures and, you know, I bought into it for a few days, clinging to hope until, you know, it proved itself to what it was and then I contacted law enforcement and there's nothing they can do as far as these burner phones and things that are communicating with me. I didn't pay any money for the scam and in offering the reward. I haven't volunteered any of my personal information

but the specifics of this scam were known to law enforcement but I was never made aware. And I wish

to make that aware for everybody. So no, no, whenever suffers, what I suffered those

“couple of days, calling you must have seen this over the years. I mean, have people offered”

to tell you, you know, either information about the case or where they thought Morgan was in exchange for a couple of dollars. No, we've never had anybody try to charge us for information. I think maybe because Morgan's case is very high profile and there's just so much law enforcement involved in her case. We did have someone who tried to still her identity once immediately was flagged in our

state. But it took police three days to find this person who had decided they would find a missing child and still their identity. It was crazy to us that that could even happen.

Sue, you hired a private investigator. One of the things, you know, I always tell people

like there's a lot of things that are portrayed on TV, particularly in TV dramas, not on programs like they want. But in TV dramas that are not actually true. But one of the things that I've always thought is kind of accurate is the way that the relationship between private investigators and police is portrayed, which is frequently law enforcement is not interested in hearing from PIs, from people who came up with information that they personally

did not come up with. Man, you're not there. You're accurate in that statement. They just don't want to hear it. Law enforcement feels like they're trained better, even if this person is a retired officer.

“Yeah. Raven, what do you tell families? Is there a playbook for this?”

So there are two indigenous community specific playbooks that have been developed by other

a script for families when they need to call law enforcement to report their loved one or

their friend missing to try to generate the urgency of that missing indigenous personal alert. But oftentimes, then we're helping them generate those flyers. We're helping organize searches. We're helping mobilize media contacts. And then also letting law enforcement know that like we're watching them and we expect them to do a good job and give them the attention they deserve.

“Families being seen makes a big difference, doesn't it?”

Absolutely. I would say in the response to like this overwhelming stress, one of the most comforting things that you can do for people in these situations is let them know that

they're heard and they're seen and they're validated and that we believe them and that

they know their loved one best and that something is wrong. And we're here to help them fix that. And you want them in front of the camera in a lot of times, not necessarily the police department. Absolutely. We also help coach families and like how to speak to the media, sit with them to make sure, you know, they can work through the stress levels, the grief. But honestly,

the most impactful words typically come from the families. And then if they need a spokesperson or they feel that they want that, you know, we can help with that too. Yeah, well, let me ask all of you. What is it you? What does it you need a detective or an advocate

“or anybody who's dealing with this to sort of understand about your experience?”

From like our community, it's humanizing people. This is a daughter. This is a son. This is a friend. This is a person who had hopes and dreams. Yeah, there's kind of a belief on the part of the public, which I've found is hard to change, which is that if that person did anything that they view as having put themselves in harm's way, it's a way to kind of write it off. Right? She went out at night alone in her car.

She didn't have enough gas. Like what do you think was going to happen? Josh, here's what

that is really all about. And you guys tell me if you think I'm wrong, but it makes everybody else feel safe because they can say this person did these behaviors. And that's why they're missing. That's why something terrible has happened to them. But I wouldn't do that. And my kids wouldn't do that. My family would do that. I wouldn't make those kind of choices. So that won't happen to me. And if I'm careful, my family, and I don't really have anything

to worry about. Right. So you blame that person who's missing because it makes you feel safe. Yeah. Victim blame is so big. And I think, you know, like in Tyler's case, we wanted everybody wanted somebody to blame, right? We Tyler wasn't here to blame. So you

“wanted to blame somebody. And I think that's what's really hard is because I brained”

want to rationalize what happened, right? But I think that's hard is we all rationalize things. And then rumors start. And then that's when things spiral out of control. And especially now with social media, all the tick tockers and the conspiracy theorists get out there. And that definitely happened in Tyler's case. And it's really hard to say ahead of that. Yeah. I mean, his husband got kind of eaten alive on social media. Absolutely. Yeah.

Absolutely. They have kids that are in high school. And I mean, those kids have phones and they're hearing it and they're seeing it and people are talking about him. It's social media can be a double edged sword. I mean, it's a way of getting the story out there. It's also a way of having crazy people weigh in on your case, or people who have a completely different agenda. Travis, you experienced some of that than you. I did a lot. My entire family did.

It got so bad. We had to send a cease and the cysts out on a YouTuber. He made a recent found and he made a little over $10,000 on videos just on my sister's case along. He was putting out false narratives. He was lying on our family telling films about her children, about her mom, about our dad. It got so bad that we had to get to the police department where he lives all the way in Texas to get him to stop. And they're just trying to get

famous, or trying to get notoriety off of a case, which is sad that people to this day is playing with her case and making it into a circus. And honestly, social media has been great because I've been able to push a story, but it's also been bad because we have individuals there or just trying to become famous after a day. Some of those people are truly genuinely evil. And others are like absolutely trying to help you get to the end of this. And it's

hard to tell who's which. It is. It helps. Doesn't it have one person be the person that communicates with either the police or with the public? I mean, telling that's definitely been you. Absolutely. And I think it reduces the confusion and the chaos if you have one

with the media, it just reduces the chaos. Yeah. And in some case, maybe makes it easier

on the other family members. So, in our family, when Morgan was first missing her, her dad

was right there doing all the media stuff too. He's a very quiet man. And a reporter actually said to him, "Pushed past him one day at a press conference and said, "We don't want to talk to you. Everybody wants to talk to the mother." And it was really a defining moment for him. And he stepped back from talking to the press. And in fact, did not do another interview until about five years ago, Hulu has a documentary on Morgan's case called Still Missing

Morgan. And that was the first time he came back out and talked because that reporter pushed him aside in that way. In my case, I am the only one left. There is any one left to do this. It takes a toll, doesn't it? I know we're all talking about just this weight on our families and have we don't keep pushing law enforcement doesn't do their job, but that is our responsibility. It really does fall to us not to quit because if we

quit, everybody quits, everybody gets up. And so families and friends who stay out there

“and keep the case in the media and keep talking and keep highlighting, that's what makes”

the difference. Yeah, the face is a law enforcement change, but you guys are still there. And I always think, you know, if the roles were reversed with that missing person be doing

this for me and the answer is always yes. And so, you know, it's hard. Like I'm sure most

of us have full-time jobs and I have a family and little kids. And this did consume 16 months of not just my life, but Tyler's entire family and, you know, his husband and his kids. And really everybody was on alert and you couldn't go anywhere in the community without people recognizing you and stopping you and asking questions. And then when we did find them, it was absolutely devastating. But also there was that sense of relief. And so I'm sorry

for you that have not found your loved one because I was there and now that we have him, I don't want to say it's better, but at least you have answers. And so I am really sorry that you guys are still having to go through that. Raven, do you tell families to be ready

“for the long haul? I mean, how do you, how do you count it? I think kind of the uncomfortable”

truth here when it comes to my community and families that we work with is that this usually isn't their first rodeo. Often times families that we've worked with have had multiple people in their families either be victims of homicide or they've had other family members

go missing that have never been recovered. So unfortunately, most of our family members are

all too familiar with this pain in this circumstance, which is kind of where our task force was founded in the first place. Raven, it's heartbreaking to hear you say bad in your community, this is a familiar that having someone go missing is a familiar thing that happens because most of the time when your child is missing, you don't know who to talk to in your community.

“There, you can't go to your neighbor and say, what did you do when your child was missing?”

Or when your left one was missing? And that is heartbreaking to me that the family she work with, that this is familiar to them. Even we call it a list, but it is a list kind of I feel like sterilizes it and that's not how we view it. But the compilation of relatives and Colorado who have been missing and murdered, I mean, we oftentimes have, we have two mother daughters on the list. Yeah, I mean, I said this to Raven one week when we first met, which was

we're doing six missing in America cases every year on the day-line podcast. I think we're going to be doing six in the in the season ahead, too. And we could do every single one of those if we wanted to about indigenous victims and we would be scratching the surface. I mean, to say that that's an epidemic is to kind of understate it. I thank you guys for sharing and helping me. This is helpful to hear and know. And not only boxer in the ring, you guys are out there plugging away

at this impossible journey and there's been some help that is shared. I mean, this takes a giant junk out of you. I know it does. Well, and you know, Josh, it's not just that we lose someone that we love, but the world loses the potential of who that person is and what they bring and what they

And the world got shaded of what she had to offer. And I think that, you know, as we stand here,

families and advocates, we're saying to the world that we can't afford to lose our future. We

“can't afford to lose what our children have to offer. I think that's right. Travis, were you”

about the system? No, I agree. Oftentimes, we don't have anyone we can talk to because they can't

relate to what we are going through. So this panel, I feel so much calmer because I have individuals that guess we're going through harsh issues, but we all have something that we can

relate to. Good. I'm glad that this may be digital. Good here. I hope you guys are all going to

“stand touch because I think that's probably pretty valuable. Thank you all for doing this. I really”

appreciate it. You can learn more about the cases of Alexis Ware, Danielle Lopez, Morgan Nick, Kent Jacobs, and Tyler Goodrich at the links in our description. Thanks for listening

“and for subscribing. See you Fridays on David on NBC. After the verdict is a production of”

Dateline and NBC News. Keanu Reed and Veronica Mosaica are the producers. Liz Brown Curl Off is Senior Producer. In 1994, 26-year-old Shelley Julesson vanished without a trace from Bismarck. In the series, call me Shelley, Dakota Spotlight podcast asks, "Who was harassing Shelley Julesson? Why are a hundred pages of her police-file missing?" Join Dakota Spotlight podcast and exploring what happened to Shelley Julesson. Call me Shelley is now also a documentary film. Search

Dakota Spotlight or visit call meshellyfilm.com.