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When it comes to sports in school, who gets to compete with the girls? And how much power does the president actually have to hire and fire at independent agencies? These are some of the key questions before the U.S. Supreme Court this term. And as any good lawyer knows, whether you win or lose in the highest court depends on
“the facts, the evidence, and how you frame your arguments, but that's not the only thing”
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I've always been a glass half-volt kind of guy, and now I'm talking to some people who look
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Search glass half-volt with Craig Melford from today. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. It's trapping something that's an interesting one. It's the start of another workday for the date line team. She's saying, "No, I didn't do it, Dad did it.
It was a murder suicide." Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news. Monday, there's motions and stuff. When she saw herself on video, she realized, "Wow, this is exactly as I remember it." We're going to cover all the ins and outs of this.
Welcome to "Dateline True Crime Weekly."
I'm Andrea Canning, it's July 2nd, and here's what's on our docket.
In Las Vegas, a former youth pastor is accused of murdering his wife on a hiking trail, disturbing allegations emerge about what went on in his church youth group.
“She actually said that David told her that the only way that the two of them could ever”
be together was if quote Bernadette was not alive. In "Dateline Roundup," we've got the latest from the courtroom and the blockbuster cases of Luigi Mangione and Alec Murdoch. There were dozens of media outlets, international agencies, local TV stations, and of course, True Crime Podcastors were there.
Plus, we're joined by June Diane Rayfield, star of the new legally blonde, prequel series, who's also an avid "Dateline" viewer. She talks about the case she can't get enough of. I'm surprised at the recent development, which I learned about on your podcast. Before all that, we are heading back to a San Diego County courthouse, and the murder trial
of Navy Optician Larry Milliette. Before resting, the prosecution called another bombshell witness. For the past six weeks, prosecutors have tried to convince jurors that Larry Milliette murdered his 39-year-old wife Maya back in 2021. They haven't presented any physical evidence that a murder even took place, and Maya's
body has never been found.
Instead, their case is largely focused on Larry and Maya's failing marriage. Prosecutor Say Larry became increasingly unhinged as he realized Maya planned to leave him. At the crux of their case is a love triangle involving Larry, Maya, and Maya's lover, Jamie Laird, last week jurors heard from Jamie about the affair. Then prosecutors called a witness no one had heard from before.
Someone else deeply affected by the affair. Jamie's wife at the time, Patricia, joining us again is NBC7 investigative reporter Alexis Revis. Hey, Alexis, welcome back. I'm Andrea.
Thanks for having me. This affair between Maya and Jamie is really central to the story. The prosecution is telling, remind us who Jamie is, and when he got together with Maya. So Jamie started working in the same office as Maya in the summer of 2019, but it's about six months later, while he was on a work trip to New York that he said Maya started
texting him, and that texting very quickly turned into a physical relationship. He said within a month they started meeting at hotels, meeting in their cars.
“They were also using secret Instagram accounts to send hundreds of messages.”
Actually, over the course of a year, they sent a detector said that they sent 760 messages most of which were sexually explicit. The early summer late spring of 2020, and this is the year before Maya vanished, Jamie said Larry actually caught the two of them inside of the truck, just outside of their office.
The week Maya vanished, Jamie said that Larry had called his then wife Patric...
co-layered to essentially expose the affair.
What do we know about Patricia layered? So Patricia layered has been a San Diego County Sheriff's deputy since 2016. We have known, just during the course of this trial that Patricia was pregnant, she actually wound up going into labor the same night Maya was lasting alive January 7, 2021, and something we didn't know until she took the stand, is that Larry didn't just call her the week
Maya vanished, they actually were talking the whole year leading up to that point that Maya disappeared. What was her demeanor like?
“It must have been so uncomfortable talking about her ex-husbands in fidelity, right?”
We were really sure what to expect, but she did smile a few times while she was on the stand. She didn't appear shy, she did not get emotional, but things she kept saying over and over again, is that she remembers that year, essentially reaching a point with Larry that she didn't want any more drama.
She didn't want to be a part of the drama. She just kept saying she wanted to move on with her relationship, she wanted to believe that Jamie was being loyal to her and she said, who wouldn't want to believe that your husband is actually being faithful, especially if you're pregnant. Larry was calling Patricia a lot, right?
So yeah, he would call her from different phone numbers, like it's work number or some of the kids' numbers or some unknown numbers, and it got to a point where she was just really sick of it. So she started blocking Larry, she didn't really want to deal with him calling her anymore, and then even more surprises came from her testimony, what were those surprises?
So she called Maya, I don't think anyone knew that Patricia will never talk to Maya directly.
And she said she wanted to call Maya a woman to woman and see what was happening. She says my daughter, the fair, was a story she made up to make Larry, quote, feel stupid, and that Larry was quote crazy. And that's when something interesting happened because Patricia says, being a law enforcement officer, hearing the word crazy, this didn't seem really normal to her, so she wanted
to ask Maya if she was okay, I needed any help, like the police resources, a restraining order for example, but apparently Maya turned her down, said she didn't need any of that, and she wasn't scared of Larry. With these phone calls from Larry to Patricia, it sounds like the prosecutors were trying to portray Larry as maybe somewhat obsessive.
The defense handled the calls between Patricia and Larry very differently. Yes.
In cross, the defense really wanted to drill down the point that Larry was always polite
that Larry wasn't aggressive, didn't seem violent, didn't seem unhinged, and they also wanted to counter her, you know, did Maya really have the ability to say that he was crazy,
“you know, in what way, so I think that was a big area of some damage control.”
Yeah. And also what you said earlier about Maya telling Patricia that she was not scared and didn't need her help. Yeah. She shut down the opportunity to take any kind of resources.
Alexis, how did Patricia's testimony impact the defense's strategy that, you know, Jamie could be an alternate suspect in all of this? There's definitely a couple things that worked in favor for the defense after Patricia took the stand. I mean, Jamie, you didn't really have to impeach him, he admitted on the stand that he lied.
But she insinuated that Jamie could still be lying, that he might still be holding some things back. So that helped their case. I think it seemed like something that worked against the defense was Patricia backing up Jamie's timeline of events where he was what he was doing at the time when Maya disappeared.
“That's really what the prosecution I think needed Patricia layered for is that they needed”
someone to say, this is where Jamie was. She went to labor the night Maya disappeared and they were at the hospital for five days because of complications. And she said, Jamie was with her. That's really what the prosecution needed.
I think to help the jury eliminate him as a suspect. One thing, you know, obviously that the defense has to work with is that Maya's body has never been found. And in fact, a date line was mentioned during the trial this week in our, for a missing in America series where we profiled Maya.
That's right. That's a huge part of this case that I think sometimes we forget about because there's this presumption that she's not alive. But the jury has to not only, if they want to reach a conviction against Larry, they have to reach a conclusion that she is in fact dead and she's not alive somewhere out there.
So this prosecution has to prove that there was all of this attention on her case. And in this day and age, the likelihood that she is alive is pretty much not existed. We should say Larry has maintained his innocence from the beginning. At the time we're taping this, the defense has not started presenting its case to the jury yet.
But according to the court, they've only asked for one day to call witnesses. The jury should get the case next week and we will be watching closely.
Alexis, thank you so much for your analysis.
Of course, thanks so much again.
Coming up, a lost vagus youth pastor is accused of murdering his first wife 20 years ago.
One of the key witnesses against him, his second wife. Honey, did you invite the minions over?
“Well, you know how we talked about getting Wi-Fi from Exfinity?”
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years and see minions and monsters only in theaters. Exfinity, imagine that. Restrictions apply not available in all areas, learn more at Xfinity.com/sameday Wi-Fi. Hey guys, Willie Guys Tier, reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit Down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with one of the biggest stars in country music.
Highly green, talking about his rise from working construction in his Alabama hometown up to the top of the charts and his latest high-profile gig as a coach on NBC's The Voice. You can get our conversation now for free, wherever you download your podcasts. To walk home from high school, her name was Mickey Castanzo, just 16, she didn't have far to go, seemed perfectly safe, until it wasn't. What happened to Mickey?
I'm Keith Morrison, and this is 5 miles from home, and all new podcasts from daydly. Listen to all episodes of 5 miles from home now, wherever you get your podcasts. Just before sunrise on August 22, 2006, David and Bernadette Vandermeer set off to hike the Angel's Landing Trail in Utah Zion National Park. Hundreds of thousands of people make that same track each year, drawn to the trail's breathtaking views and treacherous terrain.
But Bernadette never came back down.
David, a youth pastor, told investigators his wife had accidentally fallen off a cliff to her death. They had some suspicions about David's story, but the case was ruled in accident, and it stayed that way for nearly 20 years. Then, last week, news broke on NBC affiliate KSNV. "Thornies in Utah reopen a murder case surrounding a suspicious fall at the Angel's Landing Trail in Zion National Park." U.S. marshals arrested David Vandermeer in Las Vegas to face charges back in Utah for the murder of his wife and insurance fraud.
East Idaho News reporter Nate Eaton has been following this case closely and recently spoke with Bernadette's family for his podcast, "Court Room Insider." Nate, welcome back to the podcast. "Thanks for having me, Andrea. Good to see you." "You too. All right. So, Nate, take us back to the beginning. Tell us about David and Bernadette. What was their story?" They actually met as teenagers. They performed together in a church play. They fell in love and they got married.
“Bernadette was fairly young only 18 years old. Her family says that faith was so important to them.”
At one point, she actually worked in a casino as a cocktail waitress and her mother said that she would often share the gospel with people who she met while they were gambling. "She was friends of work about Jesus Christ, so people should be delivering grace too." And by 2006, they were living in Vegas and attending a church where David was the youth pastor. So that brings us to August of 2006. Walk us through what David said happened that day in the national park that terrible day. Well, they went a few weeks before their wedding anniversary to celebrate that and according to the
probable cause, David, David and Bernadette drove to his national park. It was August 21st. They spent the night there early the next morning, very early. They began hiking angels landing before the sun came up. David said they reached the summit while it was still dark. The deceptor way to set up a sunrise photograph, then he heard his wife scream he turned around and she had fallen off the cliff. Now investigators thought that part of his story were suspicious parts of him, but according to the affidavid,
they didn't believe they had enough evidence to actually prove that this was a crime.
“So that's what her death was rule accidental and the case was closed.”
"Nate for years, that's where the case stayed, a lot of years, what happened to David after Bernadette's death?" He moved on with life and so did her family, Andrea. David returned to the church where he was at a pastor the youth pastor after she died. But then around 2008, the affidavid says that he was fired
After leaders learned at the church that he was throwing parties for teenager...
You know, he built this entirely new life in Las Vegas working as a school counselor and actually becoming a yoga instructor.
“So while David was building this new life, investigators say another story was unfolding behind the scenes.”
According to the affidavid, former members of the youth group began coming forward with allegations that David had groomed them. Investigators looked into it, but no charges were brought at the time. So what led to the investigation into his wife's death? A few years later, a senior pastor at the church contacted authorities in Utah and said that they no longer believed that Bernadette's death had been an accident.
Okay, so there's an important witness in all of this who really seemed to help crack the case wide open and investigators identify this witness and the affidavid only by her initials s-h. Yeah, she said that David began grooming her when she was 14 years old. She said that the relationship became sexual when she was 16 and at this time, David was still married to Bernadette. So according to the affidavid s-h told investigators, she tried to break things off with David.
The night before David and Bernadette left for Zion National Park.
“Right, and she actually said that David told her that the only way that the two of them could ever be together”
was if quote, Bernadette was not alive and get this after Bernadette died, she ended up marrying David. Oh, my. Wait, so is this now marriage number? But was number two because they got married again. Okay, investigators believe this relationship then motivated David to kill Bernadette. But there was more to it than just the relationship as we know,
Nate in a lot of our cases, life insurance comes into play as a possible motive. Yeah, the money and according to the affidavid David collected around $567,000 in life insurance proceed after Bernadette's death. Now, I spoke with her mother who told me that the very morning they left for Zion, Bernadette had told her that they had recently increased their life insurance coverage.
“And she said, "Come here, I'll show you." And she took me to the computer and put a code in and it didn't”
work. She put another code in and it still didn't work. The password had been changed and she said, "David changed the password. I'll figure it out. We can log in later and I'll show you." So many suspicious things happening in all of this. Nate, you know, these these cases can be tricky for investigators. These where people get pushed off cliffs. In this case, you know, David's the only person
with Bernadette on top of the cliff that morning. What else did they uncover to propel this investigation? They went through the timeline that he gave them
minute by minute. He had always maintained that he was setting up the camera to take the sunrise
photo with his wife when she fell. But according to the affidavid, when investigators compared his timeline to the NASA sunrise data, they didn't match up. If David had really been getting Bernadette into a position for a sunrise photo, the sun should have actually been coming up. But the first 911 call came in long before the sun was visible from the location. So it was still dark when that 911 call came in. And so once they were able to piece all this together,
plus the previous woman coming forward, they say that the evidence pointed to murder and that it was not an accident. And this all led to David's arrest. He was taken into custody pending extradition back to Utah. But then another shocking twist in this. Right, we learned he was supposed to appear in court on Thursday. The judge showed up and said that actually he wasn't going to be there because he had died. He's not here. He's in the sea. So take off. And then the jail released
a statement saying that they had an inmate who had died from self-inflicted injuries who was David. I can't even imagine what this is like for the family. All these years go by. Someone's finally arrested for their daughter's death. And then now he's he's dead. So quickly afterwards, how did they react to this? Yeah, it's been a roller coaster. You know, when Bernadette died, they had their suspicions. But then they say that they were able to put them aside and move on
with life because he was never charged. So when investigators call to tell them the news that he had
been arrested, they felt like they were finally going to get those answers that they had longed for. But the day that he died, I actually spoke with them a few hours after that. And they said that
They felt like justice had been served.
He was a wonderful special woman of God. She had a great right future ahead of her and it was
“cut short. Such a heartbreaking story, Nate. Thank you for bringing it to us. Thanks for having me.”
Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. Luigi Mangioni and Alec Murdock are back in court gearing up for their trials. Plus, she's a beloved actress and podcaster and a devoted Dateline viewer. We'll be catching up with June Diane Rafeel. July means your halfway through the year. But there's still time to reach your 2026 wellness goals with half off and annual subscription to the start today app. Hi everyone, I'm Joy Bauer, the today shows nutrition expert.
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terms and details. Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is Dateline producer Sue Simpson. Sue, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. So Sue, we are back in South Carolina where Alec Murdock was back in court this week. He is of course the disgraced former attorney whose double murder conviction was overturned by the state Supreme Court in May. Remind us why these convictions
were overturned. So Andrea, as you know, in 2023 Murdock was found guilty and sentenced to two consecutive life sentences in prison for the murders of his wife Maggie and his son Paul. Shortly after he was sentenced, Murdock's defense team filed an appeal arguing that he didn't get a fair trial. The appeal eventually made its way to the state Supreme Court and five judges unanimously ruled to overturn Murdock's conviction and ordered a new trial. So this is the first hearing
that he's had leading up to his retrial. Murdock was wearing an orange jumpsuit, prison jumpsuit,
“and was shackled. And remember, he is behind bars, not for the murders, but for financial crimes,”
that he pleaded guilty to. He has always maintained his innocence, though, for the murders.
And Sue, the court house was packed and this can fit what 200 people. 200 approximately in Andrea, no surprise it was packed, right? There were dozens of media outlets, international agencies, local TV stations. And of course, true crime podcasters were there. The judge, Deborah McCaslin, acknowledged the crowd when she sat down at the bench. "I'll see we have a full house, good morning."
So Andrea, this is a new judge. She took over from Judge Clifton Newman, who recently retired. And while many of the people at the hearing were probably very familiar with the Murdock murders, the judge was not, and she acknowledged that. "Let me tell y'all,
I don't know anything about the first trial. So when you tell me something,
please be complete and you tell me because don't assume that I know because I don't." Murdock's defense team has already filed several pretrial motions, which were brought up at this hearing. What are they asking for? So the defense has requested a change of venue. They also asked that Murdock be allowed to wear civilian clothes and to be unshackled when he appears in front of the jury. We learned that the defense is planning on calling eight
new expert witnesses and asked the judge for access to some of the evidence from the investigation. They did. They want access to DNA evidence recovered from under Maggie's fingernails back in the day. Investigators determined that this DNA belonged to an unknown unrelated man. So they want to find out everything they can about that DNA. Now, it may turn out to be, you know, innocuous. We don't know, but it's worth looking into.
The defense told the judge that they'd cover the cost of this independent DNA testing. And the judge should something to say about that. "I'm allergic, I'm forward." Yeah, a lighter moment. The judge did not rule on any of these motions at this hearing, but she did put a tentative date on the calendar for the retrial, which is a big deal. That's right. April 5th, 2027.
Okay, speaking of trial dates in New York, we have an update in Luigi Mangione's federal case.
He is accused of gunning down United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson back in 2024,
and faces several charges, including a state murder charge and federal stocking charges. He has pleaded not guilty to all of them.
“So this week, Mangione made a brief court appearance for his federal proceedings. What happened there?”
Well, Andrea, according to a court official on Monday, Mangione appeared 30 minutes late. He apparently got stuck in a courthouse elevator. Okay, um, yep. And he remained shackled.
Those building engineers freed him from the elevator. And when he finally walked into court,
he walked in through the entrance that's reserved for the judge. When the hearing finally got underway, Andrea, the judge made a big announcement that she'd be pushing back his federal trial date from this November to January 25th, 2027. Do we know why, Sue? Well, she said, "I November date would be impossible," her word, because of Mangione's state trial, which is scheduled to start in September. She said the defense can't go through with jury selection
for the federal trial while the state trial is in process. Sue, last week, we found out that Mangione might be in talks about taking a plea deal in his federal
case. That's according to what sources familiar with the matter told our New York affiliate
WNBC. What happened with that? Apparently those talks fell apart. That doesn't mean that a plea deal is off the table entirely. And plea deal could still be considered right up until Mangione's trial date. Okay, this next update, I have to say, completely caught me off guard. Yeah, but news about Nicholas L. Avertean from Utah, Nicholas was the international con man who faked his own death in 2020,
before fleeing to Scotland to evade rape charges. Overseas, he took up a new identity as a British orphan named Arthur Knight.
I confronted him about his identity in one of my most memorable
date line interviews. What do you say to someone who believes that you are Nicholas L. Avertean? I'm not Nicholas L. Avertean. I do not know how to make this girl. Nicholas was extradited from Scotland, brought back to Utah last year to stand trial for the rape charges against him. So there were two separate trials. Remind us about those. In August 2025, Andrea, a jury found Nicholas guilty of raping his former fiancee.
He was sentenced to five years to life. And then in September 2025, a separate jury found Nicholas guilty of raping his former ex-girlfriend. And he was sentenced to five years to life as
“well for that. So this is where my jaw drops. So last week, news broke that Nicholas died. What happened?”
Yeah. According to a press release from the Utah Department of Corrections, they said that Nicholas died from complications of an existing medical condition after choosing to discontinue medical treatment. We don't know Andrea what that medical condition was. He was only 38 years old. So that is it for Nicholas L. Avertean? Wow. That was a long saga. That story. Sue, thank you so much for these updates.
Thanks for having me. For our final story this week, we are joined by a very special guest. Someone you might recognize from your favorite TV shows like Netflix's Grace and Frankie. That was a joke. Ha. He's funny. Or maybe from her podcasts. How did this get made? And the deep dive. This movie I truly believe was like the cultural reset that this podcast needed. June Diane Rayfield is not only a successful actress and podcaster. She is also a keen
date line watcher. She's here today to talk about her favorite cases, plus her role in the new legally blonde prequel series called L, available on Amazon Prime Video. June, thanks for coming on the podcast. I'm thrilled to be here and talk to you. Likewise, and we have to say for our listeners, you are dressed in true legally blonde fashion with a lovely pink Saint John. Saint John Sue. It's so. L was even though your mom. It is very L was coded. But L got her fashion
“sense from somewhere. That's what you're going to find out about in the prequel series. A lot of it”
if I may came from evil woods. All right. So as we said, your big date line fan, how did you become interested in true crime? You know, I think I just started what I started just watching the show and I loved it. And I think so many women are drawn to the show to be quite honest. True. There is something about listening to these stories that are told with such humanity and such empathy for the victims and their families, where I think we're kind of getting back some agency
and learning and understanding what red flags were and how we could prevent it. But it is actually
I think no surprise that women have really latched onto this genre.
I think because so many of the cases involve men taking the lives of women, it is nice at the end of our date lines, most date lines to see them. You know, have their come up and said that they're going to prison justice. So you you previously moderated a panel at South by Southwest
with my fabulous colleagues Keith and Josh. It was an incredible experience. It felt it was like
the Beatles were there. People were going crazy for them. Yeah. People love Josh and Keith. Yes, they do. I mean, they are, I have to say the one of the things I walked away with
“was both of them. But I specifically remember Josh talking about just how much of his time”
was spent just on a day to day following up with these stories. Just staying in touch with these families and victims. And I thought that was so beautiful. Yeah, we really do stay in touch with beautiful. Beautiful. The people we interview and we'll do updates on shows and we'll also do we have a podcast called After the Vertict where we check in with people and I'm generally a ball of tears at the end. I love hearing those stories because it does make you reflect on
all you have. And how, you know, how people can overcome such tragedy and to actually give back
and prevent it. It's always so special to hear about. Are there any true crime cases you're
following right now? We're interested in. Oh gosh. Well, I'm absolutely following Luigi Mangione case. We just did that on a date line. I'm just fascinated by that case and who he is. I'm surprised at the recent development, which I learned about on your podcast about his plea and and how he's going about it and the defense rather. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He flip flopped the his defense team on, you know, the psychiatric defense announced. Yeah. So I'm I'm following that one
very closely. Okay. So let's talk about your newest project. I know a lot of people really sad when Grace and Frankie ended back in 2022. But I am a massive legally blonde fan. My daughter's
embarrassed by this. I named her my daughter L after L was. So there you go. And Reese talks about
that a lot where she meets women and they've there's a lot of L's. There's a lot of L's, but that's so beautiful because and there's also real data around how many women went to law school after I love that. After seeing this, I wish I did. Really? Kind of. I'm kind of blown away by the cultural impact this characters had and you get to certainly find out in this series how she
“became who she is and it's really cool to see because I think most women feel like we didn't just”
arrive confident, successful, whatever. No. Exactly. There's there are other women who who helped us along the way, who challenged us maybe, who who didn't believe in us, maybe in their experiences and circumstances, that got us there. So it's really it's it's a very special series. And I noticed in the trailer that L does a little bit of slew thing. Yes, she's got a case. She's, you know, there there are similar storylines. I think if you're a fan of the movie, there's so much connective tissue from the movie
to the TV show and it also becomes its own thing too. So which is really nice. I'm so excited and you're the perfect person to play her mom. Thank you. And if anyone wants to watch my version of The Bend and Snap, I did it with the original delivery man, you can go to my Instagram with the I did it with Bruce Thomas, who played Jennifer Coolich's, you know, and love interest. You can go to my Instagram and watch my Bend and Snap. June, thank you for being here and we're
so excited for your new project. I really love the work you all do. So it's it's a total honor to be here.
“That's it for this episode of Date Line True Crime Weekly. But if you want to check out”
after the verdict, subscribe to Date Line Premium. In our latest episode, Keith Morrison catches up with Ia Altantawi, who we interviewed for The Shadow in the Window. His story about the murder of Ia's mother at the hands of her older brother. They talk about what family means now to Ia and how she's one step closer to pursuing her dream of becoming a lawyer. Coming up this Friday on Date Line, we've got a classic Josh episode for you. It starts with
one of the most intense 911 calls we've ever heard on Date Line. This isn't happening to transfer. She's extremely aggressive. It sounds like she's running, and she's crying, saying she needs a place to meet the police. Make sure to watch out of the darkness, Friday at 10 9 central on NBC. Thanks for listening. Date Line True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins,
Caroline Casey, and Keanu Reed.
Roth, and Ariya Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Crowloff,
“production and fact checking help by Yana Johnson. Veronica Mosaicka is our digital producer.”
Rick Kwan is our sound designer, original music by Jesse McGinty, Paul Ryan is executive producer,
and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Date Line. Thanks, everybody. See you later.
“I'm Craig Melvin. Cheers. Cheers. I've always been a glass half-volt kind of guy, and now”
I'm talking to some people who look at the world that we too. It's really fascinating folks who
share their defining moments, their trials, challenges, their stories, their funny, and my candy.
“So I hope you'll join me each week and who knows, you might just come away with your own glass”
half-volt. Search glass half-volt with Craig Melvin from today. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
