Shanna Moakler: Her Side of the Story

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Go to chime.com/disclosures for details. Hi, babies. Welcome to another episode of Dunblond. Today, we have a true icon. One who has lived a whole life and not just because of our exes.

But because of hard work, tenacity, and her sheer will-to-shine. Ms. Shayna Mokler. Hello. What's she doing? She's a nice introduction.

I mean, listen, girl.

I thought, I've always loved you, but I really had to kind of study you for the podcast.

Sure. And you're resilient, as fuck. Thank you. You've been through some shit. Yes, I have.

A lot. A lot. Nice to meet you. Sure.

“I feel like the media, villainous-kind, aren't these sweet?”

They're so kind to me. I've never had a deal with it on your level. I'm just now getting into it. Sure. And just the outright lies.

Yeah, I don't know how you have, or like, a pop culture icon. Thank you. Literally. Like, everybody knows who you are and if they don't, they fucking, I don't even live under rock.

Like, for sure. Thank you. I'll be more. Yeah. I got you very, very.

I got you.

I love that no matter what life has thrown at you, you've always made it

a positive. You've always got back up on your feet and you've always just like, you hit like a bitch and I'm just going to keep doing me. Yeah. And you're outspoken.

He's coast. I love that. So we all have talked about it. So you grew up in Rhode Island. Yeah.

I was born in Rhode Island. I was born in Providence, racing a small town called Barrington and I was born right there. And I just always wanted to get into the entertainment industry. So there wasn't a big booming one in Rhode Island.

So I started out in Pagent. So that's how I got into Pagent Tree. And yeah, I graduated high school and moved to Miami and modeled there. I went to New York. I modeled there.

And then let's let's slow it down. Okay. I could start. You're so used to doing interviews. Cause she's like, let's get it at all.

Yeah. Or we're going to stop right there. So you grew up in Rhode Island. How was your relationship with your parents? Because I know that they both, yeah, I loved both my parents.

That is fucking tough. Yeah. Yes. Brutal. I'm very grateful that I had my parents for as long as I did.

And I mean, it's just one of those parts of life, you know, where, you know, it's going to happen one day, but you just are like, no, it's never going to happen. But, you know, I'm, they were married for 52 years and they were honestly like two of the most incredible human beings. And I'm so grateful that I had them.

is because of them because I had such a strong family, you know, supporting me through all the craziness. And the real coaster ride. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, losing them, this is my first, you know, year without them.

And I'm like, oh, cry. I'm talking about the heart. How are you? I'm going to start crying. But, you know, this is like my first holidays without them.

And it's, it's hardcore.

It's just, I mean, it's just that part of life, you know, that you just never wanted to

have happened by happened. And so, yeah, it's been, it's been a really, really year for me. But that's brutal. Yeah. But they, they were my strength.

They always supported me. And they were so good to me. Without them, I wouldn't be where I am today. And I'm just so grateful. You know, I know, I have friends that, you know, didn't even know their parents.

And you didn't have that. So I'm just really happy I got to have him for as long as I did. So I had Josh, he's just sprawled out dick and digging everything and just hanging out right now. So cute.

My heart breaks for you. I lost my mom last November. And then I found out my dad has stage four cancer this year. So I'm watching him die. So I couldn't even imagine, you know, what you're going through, losing them.

Yeah, I was prepared for my dad to pass, you know, he was really, I'm the last to four. He was like 85, 86. And but my mom was like just a, like a super surprise, you know. So my condolences, honestly.

No, same to you, no, I got all emotional too. Thank you. But I forgot what I was going to ask, oh, you said that your mom was a surprise.

“Do you think that she possibly died from a broken heart?”

She actually died first. She died. And you were dead first. And you were dead first. I just had to know her, no, no, really healthy and doing well.

I mean, I thought I was going to have her for like another. That she was going to drive me crazy for another 20 years, you know. But after she died, I knew, I knew when one went, the other one would be really close like some notebook style stuff, you know. So at one point, my dad was just so sick that I just was like, God, like, please, that's

where I'm at. But I couldn't take them, please. Yeah, like, I don't want them to hurt me more than I thought. Yeah. Well, back to your childhood.

Yeah. Let's get off the sad subject. Yeah. Sure. Back to your childhood.

So when did you start modeling as a baby or like, no, I started modeling when I was, I wanted to be a model so bad. My dad had this, it was a dentist and he had this model from New York who would come to just see him and she was a Revlon model. And I just, when she would come, I would be like, wow, but I would watch like, you know,

Barbie commercials and stuff and be like, I want to do that, you know, like, I don't want the Barbies. I want to be in the commercials. Yeah. I love that.

And so my mom put me in a John Casablanca's like model.

“I remember the John Casablanca's name to be at the malls.”

Yeah. You're like in the malls. Yeah. And my mom ate the real OGs, no that. Yeah.

It totally. And I was like, four, 11 and like 75 pounds. My mom was like, I don't know how to tell you, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm just going to dream. You're going to have.

Yeah. And but she put me in modeling and the, the pageant, the misword island team, you say pageant, people were there. And they were like, you should come do the pageant. I was like 15 and I was like, OK, and I did it.

And I placed like first one her up.

And then I finally, I just became like a kid model. And I started making bank like being a kid, like a junior model. Yeah. And my parents were like, oh shit, maybe like, she can't do something with this. You know?

Because I was doing like national campaigns, but as like a, like, like a kid. Yeah. But then I, I finally hit puberty and I grew and the next year, I ended up winning the misword island team, you say pageant, I went to misteenu, say what is doing pageants like I mean, especially at a young age, do you just feel like all the competition,

how were the girls like did it create like insecurities in you? Because I would hate to be judged that young, because I was so fucking awkward. Yeah. I guess I looked at it more of like the glamour part of it, like the show, like I was like, I want to be part of the show and the lights and the, um, and I was excited to interview

in like, you know, share my personality with people and, um, and the girls were great. You know, you made friends and they had events for us and, um, and they would teach you like beauty stuff, you know, and there was lots of networking, you know, so like, you know, they would go to John Cousin Blinkers, they would go to modeling schools, they would introduce

“you to agencies, and that's what I was trying to get, you know, right?”

And so even so even at such a young age, you really just had your eye on the prize. Oh, yeah. I was like what you wanted to do. I was so ambitious. Yeah.

I'm going to, and people would laugh at me, you know, my, I remember being in school and writing down like, I want to be a model of an actress and like, it was like out of a movie that everyone like pointing and laughing, you know, but I was like, I'm going to, you mean, I'm going to do it. Yeah.

I was like, I'm going to do it.

And it's funny because I always wanted to be a model and they were like, oh, you're too

little. You're too this. You'll never be a model. Then when I became a big model, then they were like, oh, well, you know, I was like, I want to be an actress and they're like, well, you can't be an actress and then I became an

actress and it's like, oh, well, you did TV, you can't do movies, you know, it's always like,

I love that. I was talking about that on my TikTok live today. I was like, they said, I forgot what the question was, but I was like, oh, they said, as an entrepreneur, what would you say?

I said, never give up on yourself because you are the only one who's going to have

your back a hundred percent. Yeah. So no matter if they tell you know, do it anyways. I said, well, try. Yeah.

Even if it doesn't work out, I mean, there's so many things I've tried and failed at, but, you know, you got to try. Yeah.

“And I think just, just even the first step, you know, just getting yourself out”

there, that's the hardest part when you do that, then you just keep, you know, one step at a time. Absolutely. So take me on this journey. You were doing pageants and then how did you end up in LA and short?

Yeah. Was that at a young age, too? Yeah. Yeah. I graduated high school.

I moved to Miami.

I did season there for, you know, like, uh, they're in the night, we all, you know, we

follow seasons and we, I moved to New York and I competed in Miss New York, USA. What does that mean follow seasons? So in modeling, there's like seasons where, you know, the weather is really beautiful and all the clients and everyone go to Miami and shoot. And then when the weather gets too hot, everyone goes to New York and then the weather gets

nice there. So then everyone, they follow the season. I never knew that. Yeah. That's awesome.

Yeah. That's what I did. And I, I loved doing Miss Teen USA so much that I wanted to do Miss USA. So I did Miss New York. And I won that.

And then I went to Miss USA.

“I was actually first one to wrap and the girl who beat me went to Miss Universe.”

So I inherited the title of Miss USA. And back then, we were based in Los Angeles. So I moved to LA to be Miss USA for a year. And, um, and that's how I got to LA. I was 19 years old.

I was like the youngest Miss USA and like a decade. It was pretty crazy. That is so crazy that you accomplished so much and such a short amount of time. Yeah. And I feel like people don't focus on that with you.

They don't focus on your accomplishments. They want to just focus on, like, comments or shit that gets said. And that's like, yeah. They want to focus on who I dated, you know, you know, like, I have, like, and we'll get to that.

Not you. Yeah. It's crazy to me because I'm like, you know, I've, I've really worked my ass off. You know, I'd like beat the streets of Providence, Boston, Miami, New York, LA. And I've auditioned for everything I've ever done.

I've, I had auditioned. It wasn't like I was just hand it to me. One role was handed to me, but everything else was not handed to me, you know, I don't think people realize that. No.

Thank you for that. Of course.

“And that's really one of the things I wanted to highlight in this interview is, like, you're”

so much more than what is in the tabloids. Thank you. So, going back to you, doing all of this, like, where are you living, how are you supporting yourself? Well, when I move to LA, when you win Miss USA, you've got an apartment in LA for a year.

I've got free transportation, and they flew me all over the country, and I worked with different charities like Special Olympics. I, I went to huge Hollywood, you know, what do they call them, premieres and things. I, and I signed with William Morris, and that was my career. My career took off pretty quickly.

That's when I got on Pacific Blue, and became a series regular, and I got everything kind of took off. So, and then after my years over, I crowned Allie Landry, the famous Doritos girl. Yep, and yeah, I just got a little apartment in LA, and I just hit the, hit the streets. Hit the streets.

Yeah, I didn't think. Yeah. So, okay, you're 19 years old. Yes. You're in LA.

Yes. How is 19 year old chain of feeling? And, like, coming from fucking mall road island, yeah, which is beautiful. But, yeah, LA was hard and first to get used to, especially coming from the East Coast. East Coast people will come to LA and do pretty good.

LA people will go to the East Coast, and they usually come back real good, they don't like you. Much over there. But, it was hard. You know, LA's, you know, it's a bigger city.

It's very spread out, and it's very clicky. People, you know, they see a lot of people come and go. They see a lot of Hollywood people, and so they don't let people into their clicks, very easy. So it was hard to make friends, but I eventually did, and I just, I just, I look back

now, and I mean, I just had the time of my life. It was just kind of felt like where you're so belonged. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This was like home, and, you know, my OG, the old crew of Hollywood, I'm actually going

to see them all. I'm going to be celebrating one of our OG's birthdays coming up this Saturday, and I'll see a lot of the old school people, and it was just like the best time ever.

It feels like a million lifetimes ago, but it was like the most amazing, amazing time

in my life. Isn't it crazy? Because you and I are around the same age. Isn't it crazy to think back to 20 years ago, and we're just like, bro, how the fuck did it fly by so fast?

Yeah. It's going to be like 30 years from me, I'm 48, I'm going to be 49, and you know, I moved here when I was 19, LA when I was 19, and I'm like, how did I like, how did, where did those two decades go? It was 30 years ago, you know, like 40 years ago, like it's so crazy.

Dude, my 20s and 30s were a blur, I grew up in Vegas, so I don't imagine. We spent a hell of time in LA too, so I only imagine living in that 24/7. So crazy. Take me to one of the first premieres that you ever went to, like, how did you feel?

Was it like, were you nervous?

Yeah, you know, I, God, one of my first premieres, kind of, I don't even know it would

be my first one, but I, I mean, one of the most memorable ones. I get, oh God, I have really, I have a really funny story for you, um, you know, like this. Okay. So I, I was friends with Kato Kaling back in the day. Oh my God.

And he was like, I got a friend to, um, he was like, I got a friend that needs a date to a movie premiere. And, um, and I'm like, who, and he's like, Bill Mar, and I didn't really know, back then he just had like a, his show was on, like, um, Comedy Center, something like this. I'm not a huge fan of Bill Mar, and I'm sorry if you guys all are, but, um, I'm not.

So, um, but I was like, uh, all right, I'll go, like, fuck it. It was like, um, it was like this Sean Penn movie, you know, and I was like, okay. And, uh, so I go, and he, you know, he picks me up and he takes me to this movie premiere, and we do, like, the red carpet and it was like, really cool, and I meet like all these huge celebrities and all the stuff and, um, Francis Ford Coppola, sitting in front of us

with his daughter, and I'm just like, this is the fucking coolest thing ever, but I'm with

“Bill Mar, you know, and I'm like, whatever, fuck it, you know, how old was Bill back then?”

I don't know.

Cause he's always been old.

I think he's like the same age as me, but he's like real fucking proud to have me, like on his arm when he's like, with, like, the guys, like, you know, like, oh, his friends, and I'm just like, oh, Christ, you know, like, no, like, it's not happening. Anyway, so we, uh, after the premiere, Sean Penn goes up to him and he's like, hey, we're going to go to Jack Nicholson's house, good old, yeah, come on up with them, and I had

known Jack, and I had known Sean would ever make it in the car and Bill puts his, like, hand on my leg, and I'm just like, oh, no, I don't know, they're like, you know, like, no, like, I'm not, no, but, um, this is terrible, this is terrible story, but I can't stand him. So, um, this is, this is, payback Bill, so I'm like he cares, um, but we, uh, so we go up there to, like, Jack Nicholson's house, and, you know, and, and it was really fun, and, you know,

how did Jack, Jack as a fucking icon? Oh, he's, he introduced me to my, um, basically to Oscar-dale Hoyah, I was like, at Jack's house, and he was like, this is the golden boy, you know, oh, the ladies love this guy, you know, I love Jack, yeah, and I was like, you know, and, um, and then I remember when I, I went out, like, then, like, that week, and I met Oscar, and I was like, that's the guy

that Jack was telling me about, you know, and, uh, when Oscar and I actually did you meet Oscar with Billmar, or, no, okay, yeah, two separate, two separate things, so how did it end with Billmar? Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, and then we'll go over there. So, you know, he's trying to get Sean on his show, and he's trying to get Jack on his show,

whatever, and then he wanted me to sit next to him, and I didn't, I know, it was like, comfortable, so I, like, how old are you? I was like 20. Okay. Yeah, it was like a baby, yeah, and crazy, how, like, and Billmar is the same way.

I guess I swear, how old is Billmar, can we Google that, because he was old back then. I feel like, yeah, I feel like he's not the same, he's just kind of looked like the same, yeah, he's like one of those people that, like, constantly old. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about?

“Like, Mr. Rogers, love Mr., okay, that's why I thought it was 40 when I was 20, that's crazy.”

That's even worse, Bill, come on, oh, like, yeah, so anyway, we end up leaving, and he was really angry that I didn't, like, when he was like, when I, when I, like, I don't know how he was sitting next to him, like he wanted the guys to think that he had this, like, hot little blonde, or the one that I was like, no, I don't want them to do it. Oh, you're like, old shit, yeah, so, and in the cart, he was like, really angry with

me, and so I just start talking to, like, the driver and stuff, and then he got out. I love how nothing phases you, yeah, I need to do your birth chart, because I know you're in areas, but what's your moon? Um, I think I'm a Virgo. Okay, I got you.

I could see that face. Yeah, I'm not. I do. I do your birth chart after the show. Okay.

It's just how unbothered you are, is fucking priceless. Oh, like, I was like, you're gonna ruin my time, like, I was like, I came up here to, like, you know, like, you just have fun, like, I know expectations. Yeah, no expectations. I wasn't here to date you.

I was just like, we were just going out as like friends and, you know, whatever. And then he could out of the car, we got out of the car, and I remember, I walked, I had a door man. I was on Wilshire corridor back then, and my door man knew me and, you know, he walked in and he goes, I just wanted to let you know that you are one of them.

Most disrespectful young women I have ever met in my entire life. And I was like, excuse me, and he's like, shh, and I was like, did you just shh, and he was like,

he goes, and I just want you to know, I will never ever be seeing you again.

“You should have let those men know that you were with me, and you were completely disrespectful.”

And I was like, first of all, yeah, I was like, I'm not your bitch, I'm not your girlfriend, and I don't need to let anyone know that I'm with you. I was like, and I'm totally fine, like, not seeing you again.

And I was like, I don't know.

“And ever since then, I've been like, fuck, Wilmar, I'm like, fuck, Wilmar.”

Oh, God, that is, but that's a priceless fucking story. Yeah, I'm like, thanks, Kate, oh fucking, Katelyn. Yeah, we're the house, Kate, okay, Lennon. I don't know. He did big brother, too, not too long.

Yeah, it's a celebrity big brother, but I feel like he pops in at the weirdest time. Yeah, the weirdest. Like he popped in for the OJ shit. Yeah, he popped in for like, and I did big brother, and he popped in and did a little stint on there.

Yeah, that's like ran off. Yeah, that dude has made a fucking career off just popping in. And like being like people's friends, like it's just crazy crazy. Yeah, yeah. That's what he's known for.

He's not an actor or anything, is he? I don't know what he's ever done, okay? He's a guest house. I don't know. And he's somehow a fucking household name, so he figured it out for himself.

That's how he would for you. You know, people can like, yeah, no, but make a name off themselves. He's just being the selves, I guess, being roommates of people. Exactly. Yeah.

So let's move on. So what how old were you when you met Oscar? I was, I was like 22 turning, I was like 20, 23.

“So you had originally met him when you were 20.”

Didn't really know who he was, and then kind of just like, you guys cross paths. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So take me on that gap in between 20 to 22. What are you doing out there? I'm working.

I'm on the USA show, Pacific Blue, I guess. I got that list right here. I'm working. You did a bunch of shows, you did Pacific Blue, you did CSI. Entrepreneurs?

Yeah. I couldn't agree. But people love that. How was it on the, on the entrepreneurs? Oh, that, I mean, that's such a great show, and you know, that show was so successful.

So good. When you have a show that is so successful and everyone's making money, yes, that's really fun because there's a lot of money and everyone's really happy. Yeah. It's a nice place to work.

And now we're all the boys. They're just amazing. Yeah. Kevin Connally is like so awesome, I've known him forever.

He's such a good guy and yeah, everyone on the show, I love all those guys just amazing.

I love that for you. It's just such an iconic show. Yeah.

“And you also were on the wedding singer.”

Yeah, that was my first, that was one of my first roles I ever did. I was at a barbecue and Adam's family was like, hey, do you want to like, that's the one role where he was like, hey, do you want to be in this movie and how do you just go to our barbecue with Adam's family? I don't know.

I'd shit my pants because that's that's father. You know, that's the thing like, you know, back then every night you went out, you know, you would just everyone used to go out. It was so pretentious. Yeah.

Like, there's so many celebrities just ran in the circles. Like, that's how Vegas was. Yeah. Vegas and Hollywood were so much alike. Like, I would go to the fucking palms and Pamela Anderson would be there if I'm.

Yeah. And in a coal, you know, like, everyone nobody has to carry out. No one had to secure. Yeah.

The playboy mansion, you know, parties when he first, you know, lit the candles in the

ground. Yeah. And after his marriage. Yeah. I mean, those parties were awesome.

And one went like Leo and you know, everyone was Leo is still partying. Yeah. I think so. I don't think he's stopped. He paused.

Yeah. All those guys. And I love all those guys. Yeah. Absolutely.

So getting into TV. Yes. How did you get into it? Like, you were like, okay, I'm going to do TV. I'm done with modeling.

Yeah. Was that what? Well, I won the big, the big one, you know. And so there's really no more to do in pageantry for me. You know, I could have gone and done Miss America, but it's a scholarship pageant for girls

that really want to go to college. Yeah. And I wasn't going to go to, I didn't know desire to go to college. So she's like, I already know what the fuck I'm doing. Yeah.

I'm like, I want to, you know, and I, for me, being an entertainment, you know, going to college would have taken years of, you know, where I need to be auditioning and stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. It was just beating the, like, just auditioning auditioning auditioning.

I have a question though, so girls literally strive their entire life to make it to that Miss America pageant. Yeah. How do, what do they, what is life after pageantry for those girls who are like, life cards for a lot of them?

Miss America, you know, is it's not really a beauty pageant. It's really girls that have, like, a platform and really want scholarship money to pay off their good chance and stuff. So it's more of an interview. They say it's a talent pageant, but it's really more of an interview.

They do pageant and so those girls, you know, they really, they really want to be, you know, they have, like, a plan already, like, they want to be an aviation or doctor's lawyer. They're okay. So there is life. Yeah.

There's life. Like, they're going, you know, to go do stuff where in Miss USA, Miss Universe, those girls are more entertainment-based. They want to be, you know, they want to, they want to be in movies, hosting, acting, modeling.

So we always say, we always say, you know, Miss America is the girl that lives next door

and Miss USA is the girl you wish live next door. You know, but it's more of a beauty patch. It's more based on physical beauty. It's not so much college-based. All those girls are gorgeous.

Didn't Donald Trump use to host those. He owned it. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. He met him. Yeah.

“He and I were in, like, a crazy lawsuit together against each other and together.”

What?

Did he ever grab you by the pussy?

No, he did. I did not ask. He wasn't my biggest fan. Oh, no. Oh, what happened?

We'll talk about it. Yeah, we'll talk about it. Yeah, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. Yeah, we'll talk about it.

It's actually pretty famous. You know, my title, I used to write, it was the executive director for the Miss California USA pageant. Right. And I had to title hold their name, Carrie Prigine, and she was a very religious girl.

And when she competed at Miss USA, Perez Hilton asked her about same sex marriage because at the time, Perez is coming on the podcast tomorrow. Oh, nice. Okay. I tell him I said, what's up?

Tell him if he says another thing about my daughter, Alabama, we're going to the mattresses. I will. I will tell him that. Please tell him that.

I will. Yeah. I'll tell you a little more about that. Okay. We'll talk about that.

We'll talk about that later, too. But yes.

“So Perez asked her about same sex marriage.”

And at the time it was very controversial. We had like Prop 8 going on. And it was a very big deal. And she was religious. Yes, she was very, yes, she was very, yes, she was very religious.

And so she just said that, you know, she stated that she just felt like, you know, marriage is between a man and a woman and, you know, that was like her opinion. But the way it came across was really offensive to a lot of people. Especially in pageantry, there's so many, you know, we have, we have just have a huge gay community.

Yeah. And so it was really offensive to a lot of people.

And then she basically kind of like breached her contract, started kind of like running

all over the country. A huge church, the in-nom, it's called the National Organization for Marriage. It's very, it's kind of what created Prop 8 and it's very, it's highly funded. Right. And then, you know, like the Baptist churches from the south kind of latched on to her.

I think I remember that. Yeah. I wanted her to kind of be like the face of, you know, anti gay marriage and stuff. Right. And started paying her like mass amount of money to go to these churches that kind

of had like anti gay rallies and like, you know, associated with, you know, homosexuality with like beastiality. It was like awful. Oh. So, you know, we were trying to like be like, you're into a contract.

You can't just go do these appearances without us and all this stuff. So, Trump at first, we had to go to Trump and be like, we can't control or like, and she's losing her mind. And he, we had like this big, you know, press conference over at the Trump Towers. It was like, can't spend film festival with the cameras and stuff.

And I wanted her to lose her crown. I thought, you know, her behavior, just the way she treated us. It was very pageantry. It was, you know, because you want little girls to be able to look up. And everybody's entitled to their own assures, but at the same time, it's like, you

can't talk about religion and it's, it got just gross and we had sponsors, you know, that are like, I'm a game, you know, we're, we just getting hundreds of thousands of dollars and, you know, she's, he's me, you know, he's really bad. And he let her keep her crown, and I resigned. I quit.

I was like, I'm not supporting this, I'm out, I quit, I made like, I mean, I was on CNN.

“I was on, you know, it was really big news, Ryan C. Cress, and, and then I think, even”

she, Trump got sick of her and then Trump all, Trump ended up firing her and asking me to come back, which I did, and then she sued all of us. And so she sued Trump and I, and we all had to like go to, what did she sue for? She sued for, um, religious discrimination. Wow.

Yeah. And so that's how that ended up. Um, she, she, she, she sued us, and, uh, so you, she was suing you and Trump. You guys weren't suing each other. Correct.

Okay. Yeah. She was suing Trump. She went after Trump and then myself and my partner in the Miss California USA. Right.

That's right. She had a boyfriend, um, who sent all her, she masturbated a lot and she took videos of herself masturbating. Well, that was of the turn I was thinking was about to happen. Yeah.

She masturbated a lot and she, uh, she sent, uh, isn't that against, well, I mean, I'm all for masturbating. Like, I will leave a sale trail anywhere, I am totally fine with it. Yeah, I'm totally fine with it. You know, I'm, please be proud, masturbating be proud.

But she, um, her boyfriend sold all her masturbation videos to TMZ and, um, now you have been understand that now at this point, she's become, where she was a little religious, right? Right. She then was getting making a lot of money with these, with these churches.

And so then she kind of became this really, very religious woman, right.

She was not not to that extent, you know, and I always feel like when people are like

that, they're always hiding something. Yeah. I grew up in a very religious environment and my family was the most hypocritical people you can have. Yeah.

It's always that preacher who's like, you know, and then he's found in, like, a motel with the, you know, having a homestay smoking crack and fucking, yeah, doing weird shit, yeah, exactly. So, um, so we ended up, the lawsuit, um, you know, presenting that, you know, and, um, she denied it and to, like, the, you know, the camera went up to her face from her vagina to her face, you know, and then she, she, so we, we settled out.

Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.

That was my first year as a state director.

Uh, so why did he not like you though, just because you quit and you took a stand. Because I quit and said that I will not support him. Yeah. I wouldn't support him.

“Because you have to understand the contract that she signed is the same contract, I signed”

at Michigan USA and Miss USA and I had to abide by the contract. I couldn't go tell my state directors to fuck off and go do whatever I want to do. And, you know, and I felt like, well, why did she get to breach it? Because she's bringing in press, right? I don't love press.

And it's like, I get that. But like, right. It's also like killing our business, right? Our sponsors are dropping and she's, you know, people are offended and hurting people. Yeah.

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availability of speed and coverage varies. SeamentMobile.com. Crazy. Yeah, okay, some moving on. Yeah, that started with awesome though.

Yeah, so you're doing TV. Yep, when did you do the wedding singer? I was about 20, 20 years old. Okay, and you met a singer. Billy Idol.

I did. I met him on that, I met him on that set. Yeah, house cleaner. He was a really good lover. I'm not going to lie. I did see I had a feeling because those rocker dudes for some reason.

I love musicians and rocker dudes, but the majority of them, not all of them, are pretty passionate. He was actually really fun and really cool. And he actually was really awesome to talk to you. He just knew like a lot about history and was like really fun conversation.

I see that. He stimulated you intellectually.

“Yeah, he did stimulate me intellectually.”

And he just, um, he was just a lot of fun. But I was just so young. I was just kind of like, Baby settled down with like anyone. I was like wild as hell.

You're literally living everybody's dream. Yeah. He was super fun though. I love that. So you're doing TV.

You're doing these movies. How are you feeling? Did you ever fall into like the drug scene and LA? No, I never did.

No, I never got into drugs.

I wasn't even like too much of a drinker really. You know, I just was high on life just around and I just wanted so badly to be a movie star and to break into movies. And I just was very, um, not, I wouldn't call myself like a star fucker because I just ran in those like circles of people.

Back then, I don't even think that was a thing. Yeah, it's more like cloud chain stories, but back then it was like, it was where you were and who you knew. I mean, people were just everywhere. Yeah.

You didn't pursue them. Yeah. You literally just ran into them. Yeah. But I, um, I just was, I just was so zoned in on just being successful.

And I just wanted to prove everyone that in Rhode Island that told me I wasn't ever going to be shit that I was going to do it. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. So moving on. Yeah. Yeah. They do.

Take me on this journey. I, um, so my, one of my best friends in Rhode Island was a security guard at this, um, I think he was called. It was a big club in in West Hollywood. The Eden or something garden of Eden or something people will know that.

I'm looking at my notes. Yeah. I'm not just taking a phone call right now. It's cool. I literally have no, you're totally fine.

You're like, um, sorry. I'm going to drink. I know you're so dehydrated. You're so dehydrated. I know you said you're, you said can we say it?

You said you were hung over. I have a little hungover. I actually, I, I've been on this terrible sleep. So I went to bed at like nine o'clock last night. And I like I told you.

And, um, and I woke up at like six in the morning. And I didn't know what to do with myself. So I went and played like some cards. Like some, uh, and I just had like a couple drinks. And I was like, oh my god.

I'm going to go do this podcast to run. Run. I got to like. Mimi's fucking hung over. I got to get it together.

I got very little like three. Um, I was like, I got to do this podcast. And where I'm not drinking with you guys. So yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

I remember he walked by. And I used to go run around Hollywood. And then I would go to this bar to meet my friend and wait for him to get paid. And we would all go get like pizza or go to, uh, you know, whatever. After the sports we all used to go to.

And, um, and he walked by and the other security guards were like, Shannon, you know, do you know what I was? Do you know what I was? I was Oscar of the Illinois. And I was like, oh, that's who Jack told me about it.

And I was like, oh, that's who Jack was talking about. He was really cute. And then like, do you want to meet him? And I was like, okay. And so they like brought me over to him.

And, um, and we just like, we just looked in each other's eyes. And it was just like ding. And that was like it. Um, do you feel like it was, um, some sort of like a connection. Like for real life type of thing.

Oh, my God instantly. And I knew I was like, I'm, and back then I was like,

I'm never going to have babies.

Like I'm never having kids. Like I'm just going to like live my life. And, and I met him and I was like, oh, I'm going to have your baby. Like I'm going to have your baby. And we're going to be like, and I was so happy.

I was like, yeah, we had a quite a whirlwind there. Does he just up in women's clothing? No, he does.

“Because I mean, I, why do remember when that was going down?”

And I was like, well, how do we explain these pictures? What was happening? You know, he, he does drink a lot. He had like a drinking problem for sure. And he's the kind of, we've all done some weird shit.

We'll do some weird shit. But he's the kind of drinker that like, you know, he can drink a lot. Yeah. But he's like wasted off the first shot. You know what I'm trying to do?

Yeah. Because he's done, I feel like some Latin Americans. Yeah. Not drink. Like they, yeah.

Yeah. It, like some Indians. They have a really hard time. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's some people's like bio chemistry or something.

Yeah. Like they just like, but like when he drinks like two drinks and he's like, like, like, as if he had 50, he can drink 50, but he's like, as wasted off the first as he would be like on the 50th. Right.

And so anybody, but he's very fun. Yeah. Like he's a fun person. And he's, you know, and he loves to sing. And he's very social.

He's very charismatic. And, you know, and he really just, you know, he's been training. You know, he would train for three, four months in Big Bear at a time. And then, you know, he wanted to like let loose and go crazy after the fights. And just be young.

You know, he was, he was 25 when I met him. Yeah. And I was 22, 23 years old. Yeah. Yeah.

He was like babies. And, um, but, you know, he's like, one of those people that, you know, would like, you know, put like the clothes on just to be funny and silly. Oh, God. You know, and then somebody took the pictures and then tried it to, like,

Oh, wow. You know, that's terrible. Yeah. I just, the media is fucking terrible. Like that.

“I've always wondered that I was like, is that his king?”

Because I know there are so not people king's like that, you know? No. So take me into you guys' relationship. Yeah. You guys met that night.

And then it was just a whirlwind. Yeah. And six months later, and I remember saying to him, like, Did you just move in with him? Yeah.

Like moved in with each other. And we just were like madly in love. And I, you know, like he, I think our first date, like, I went to Big Bear. And we took a private jet to Vegas. And he took me to like a George Foreman fight.

No. I just, that's iconic. Yeah. It was really cool. And I just remember people being like,

"Champ, champ."

Like, I never been with an athlete.

And, you know, there's a difference between, like, fans of athletes and fans of movie stars. Yeah. Yeah. There's a real difference.

What's the difference? They're just way crazy.

“Oh, I'm a more fanatic, you know, fanatical.”

And I just was like, this is crazy. And I didn't really know anything about the boxing world. Or, you know, him, really. I just fell in love with who he was. He was very romantic.

Yeah. I just loved his culture and the Latino, like, kind of, you know, energy of him. And I'm, I'm half Portuguese. I'm Portuguese, and I'm Portuguese, and I'm Brazilian and white trash. No, that's what I always say.

I love it. Yeah. We just, like, we just fell in love. But, you know, we were so young. And we had so, he, he had so much money.

And he had so much power. And he had so many people just pulling at him from every direction. I mean, you know, we just did an HBO documentary. And I was actually really surprised that he kind of let me be as candid. And he was as candid and really as brutally honest about, you know,

his drinking, his drug problem, you know, his womanizing, his sex addiction. Did you think he's trying to write his wrongs now? No, he's older. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, he, he has, he did me pretty pretty dirty, you know.

Yeah, let's talk about that because you had, because you had, because you had, because you had, you had, Tatiana. Yeah, I had Tatiana. She was about one and a half, two years old. And I knew things were going on.

You know, they were, like, you always know when they're cheating.

Yeah, you always know. It's not, it's never fucking not noticeable. Yeah, and, you know, and that didn't bother me so much as, like, they were all these third parties. There was, like, you know, he had just lost his first fight.

And there were lots of new businessmen in and they were making changes and stuff. And basically, like, um, he went to go, he went to sing.

And yeah, we were like, and I was like, I think I don't remember the fuck is happening. Like, it was really weird. Um, but I remember we like, I met him at the Hilton at Universal. Every time I pass it to this day, I still remember.

And I met him at the Universal.

“And, um, and I just like, was like, do you want this anymore?”

And he was like, you know what? He's like, I'm going to go to New York. I'm going to go do Letterman. And when I come back, we're going to start fresh. He's like, I want you in the baby.

You're my girls. We're going to start the, you know, he's like, go. He's like, go buy some art for the house. Go get some, you know, new things for the house. And when I come back, we're going to start fresh.

And I was like, okay. That was like on a Friday. And then, do you think he really genuinely in that moment meant that? Or do you think he was pacifying the situation? Because he wanted to avoid confirmation.

I'll never know. You'll never know. I'll never know. I obviously, I, I, it was everything I wanted to hear in the moment.

But I'll, I'll never know.

But I, I was, I was in our home. Our mansion in Bel Air. And, um, my daughter was sleeping in her nursery. My mother was there. My girlfriend.

And we were watching the Latin Grammy Awards. And, um, and I just remember. They were like, Oscar De LaHoya is about to hit the red carpet. I mean, well, I'm calling him like, hey, I need to get home all right.

Like, where are you? You know, and he's not answering. And I kind of like, we all looked at each other like Oscar De LaHoya is on the red carpet. Like, what the, the fuck is he doing? And then this, and it's in a way, you know?

So we're like, wait, what? And they go to a commercial break. And so we're waiting. And I'm like, what is he doing there? Why the fuck am I not there?

Like, what's happening? And then, um, he, uh, like comes back. And there he is holding hands with his now ex-wife, Milly, Courtney Hayer.

I don't know how to say your name. What I'm milly. And, um, and I just time, you know, and killed Bill when that black. Yeah. When everything just slows down.

Yeah.

“I mean, I just, like, I just remember I lost my breath.”

And I just was like, and he was holding her hand. And they were like a couple. And I just, like, I, my mom, And everybody had publicly known that you guys were together. Yeah, we were couple.

And they just accepted this. There was no backlash. There was really no backlash. And he was so powerful. And the media was just so, he had such control of the media that,

Wow. You know, yeah, I, I didn't stand a chance. And, um, and the next day they had a lawyer come to the house and say, "You and the baby, we need to, you know, need to move out." And I was like, "I'm not moving out."

No. I'm not, I, like, this is my home. And, you know, uh, and it became like a world, like a shit show, a world when, like, of shit show. And we were in, like, you know, we fought for probably like.

Did you ever get him back on the phone? No.

He never called me again.

Uh, he had his, um, assistant Raoul come to me and tell me that he no longer wanted to be with me. And I remember breaking down on Raoul's arms and crying. I think Raoul was crying. I think we were both crying. And I just was like, is this really, I couldn't even, like,

I just remember sitting on the balcony of that belly of a mansion with a bottle of vodka and a cigarette and being like, "What the fuck am I going to do now?" And I really thought in that moment that my life was over. And I was, how old were you? I was, uh, 24 years old. You're a baby.

Yeah, but I, like, I, you know, I quit working to, you know, I thought I was going to be a wife and a mom. I'll see very controlling about your working. Because I know that culture, the atmosphere, do not like. They did not want me working.

I quit working for him. I quit, like, everything. So I, you know, at that point, I didn't have, like, a manager. I didn't have an agent anymore. And back on the day, you had to have those too.

I'm still even doing anything. There was no social media, like, we have today. No. I don't even think we have phones. Yeah.

I think we have, like, a flip-blown. It's like, the brick phone. A Motorola or something. Decide kicks. Yeah, there was no, uh, yeah.

And, like, literally, like, do in the, you know, one word, like, the TMI, like TMI, like TMI. Exactly. That's how I'm texting him. Where are you?

Yeah. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I was, like, so it's kind of like that. And I, I remember the fact that everybody could publicly know that you guys were together.

Yeah. And then him be able to just present a new woman on the, that would never fly. Oh, and today's, like, are you kidding? No.

Yeah. And the fact that you just had to eat it. I had to fucking eat it. Behind the scenes, like, did you go through, where you probably gone through postpartum during this, too?

Yeah. No, my daughter was about to, oh, and then have two.

“God, you know, no, I just, um, that's why I ended up, um, uh,”

you know what he said to me. I, you know, this is so crazy. This part of it. I remember, because I, he wouldn't see me. And I remember, I went out to a club.

And Paris Hilton was there. And he was fucking Paris Hilton at that time. Even though he was with Millie. You and Paris have a long extensive history. Yeah.

He was fucking Paris. And, um, and I got even though he was with Millie. Yeah. Even though he had just started dating Millie. And, um, and I knew he was there to meet her.

And she was, like, hanging out with me. And I was just like, why are you hanging out with me? Like, if you're, and he saw me. And I, and I left. I left the club.

And, um, he wanted to meet me. And so I went and I met him like the next day.

And I, and it was the first time I'd seen him since

How long ago was it? How long after it? It was about a month since the Latin Grammy Awards. Okay, gotcha. And, um, and, uh, we were in the car talking.

And I just said to him, I'm like, why did you, why did you do that? Like, why did you? Internationally humiliate me.

“Like, you know, like, and I have nothing.”

You know, I've nothing now. I don't even, like, know it to, like, how to, like, move forward from this. Yeah. And when you say nothing, not monetarily, you're just meeting, like,

your family or you're talking about all together. I just thought at that point in my life, like, my career was over. Yeah. I had no agent. I, you know, my future.

I thought I had this whole future plan. You know, and that was, like, ripped away from me. Right. Matter of 24 hours. And I just, like, you know, I didn't know what to do.

Yeah. And he just said, oh, I chemical imbalance. That's what he said to me. And I said, what the fuck? I was like, okay.

And I just was like, well, I don't want to, like, go to the lead. Like, I don't want to legally go after you. Like, can we, like, can you help me? Like, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, where am I going to live?

Like, where, like, what, like, I don't know what to do. You know, when he was like, and he goes, you know, Shayna, he goes, and at that point, we had gone to court and figured out our child support. And he goes, you know, you already took me to court for child support.

And I'm not happy about that. And he goes, and if you sue me for Palamoni, he goes, I'm not going to see you or the baby till she's 16 years old.

“And did you guys make out or did you just have a conversation?”

No, we just had a conversation. I mean, I was bawling. And I mean, I was still madly and madly in love with him. And I just, like, I thought I was losing, like, you know, this was the man, like, that you had your first baby?

Yeah, I worshipped, worshipped him. And he said, you know, he goes, I want to see you or the baby till I was, until she's 16. And I just was like, no fucking way. No way would you do that.

And then he goes, and he got out of the car.

And I'll never forget this.

And he went around to the drive sitting in the driver's seat. And he knocked on the window and I rolled it down. And he goes, I have more money than God. Don't be too hard on me. And he left.

That gave me goosebumps. And he fucking left. And I sat in that car. I'm really crying. I think about it.

I sat in the car. And I cried for, like, fuck, man. And I, and I just was like, there's no way. He didn't, I sued him for Palamoni. And I won.

I love that you didn't back down though. Yeah, I, I, I, I really didn't have a choice. I honestly was scared. And, you know, and I, and I was like, and I was saying to him in the car. I was like, well, I don't want to sue you for Palamoni.

I don't like, let's figure this out. Like, can, can you help me? Like, can, like, I don't even know if I have a fucking car. Like, like, can, can you, can you at least, like, give me, you know, something, so that I, I can raise our daughter in a safe environment.

And I can put her in a good school. And I, I know, like, I have some support or, you know, um, security. But he wouldn't. He wouldn't talk to me.

I really didn't have a choice. And, you know, in the news back then, they were like, Shane assumes him for 200 million. I didn't want it. Not knowing the background of what's going on.

Yeah, I mean, that was half of his money back then. But any woman that has been hurt the way that you were.

“Yeah, I think you were pretty fucking nice.”

Yeah, you know, you didn't slander him in the, in the public. I, I wanted him back. I wanted, I, I, I wanted him back so bad. But he didn't see the baby and I until she was about 16 years old. Wow.

Yeah. He didn't. My heart just dropped. Yeah. That is, I felt so bad for Artiana.

Yeah. She, she didn't, you know, didn't know her father growing up. You know, and they've made a men's. And he's, he's made a men's with me and he's apologized and he's apologized to her. How long did it take for him to apologize and to make a men's.

Like, did he, has he been consistent in her life since she turned 16? He was. He was being pretty consistent. He is a new girlfriend. And I think he's midlife crisising out a little bit.

Damn it, Oscar. He's definitely, you know, he's, he's, he's trying. He's doing the best that he can do. And he's really owned up to a lot of his mistakes and his faults. And I, I will honor and respect him for that.

You know, he's not, he didn't have any easy life. And he's not a perfect person. Yeah.

And I will always love him as the father of my daughter.

Yeah. But he's tried. But, you know, Artiana looks at him like a father. And she loves him immensely. But Travis is her dad.

Oh. Yeah. Travis is her father. Like her daddy. Oh, I love that.

That being a bonus parent. I, that really makes my heart happy because it's, yeah. It's such a hard role to take on and we'll get into their relationship. Sure. How is your relationship with Artiana?

Are you guys good? Are you guys good? I am a great relationship with my kids. You know, it's, it's hard. You know, there's a, you know, parental alienation is a real thing.

And we can get into that a little later. But, you know, I was a, I'm a, I'm a god damn good mom. I'm a fucking great mother. And I raised all my kids. And I, I did a good job with a lot of heavy shit.

Yeah. And, you know, even with Artiana when she was little, you know, I made sure that because her dad wasn't there, I would go to the schools and be like, I want her in classes with all male teachers. I want her to have positive male role models.

You know, I, I would have her go and spend summers with my mom and dad, because I wanted her to see a functioning healthy. Yeah. Loving, you know, relationship. I made those choices for her to see see those things and be a part of those things.

I have a great relationship with my kids.

My kids and I never had any bumps in the road until my ex husband started dating

You know, got you.

“And, and I don't fault my kids for some of the things that they said.”

They were kids and they were influenced. And, you know, but a teenager saying one thing, one time. Yeah. Doesn't take away the years that I did raising my children. I'm very confident in who I am as a mother and how I raised my children.

But I'm, I'm not estranged from my children. I'm very close to my children. I love that. We have great relationships. Yeah.

We have a little deeper into that once we get into their births and stuff like that. Yeah. But yeah, I just wanted to know where you and Autiana stood. Because I mean, you guys were babies growing up together. Really?

Really? Yeah. Do you feel like the bond? Like, she's more of like a, like a sister. No, I definitely hear mom.

I was like, no, I'm mom. No, no, I'm not. I'm not. I love it. She's beautiful too.

She is. I mean, all your kids are thinking gorgeous too. I'm very proud of all three of them. But she just has, um, she's a very incredible, sweet kind soul. She seems like that.

She seems very peaceful. She is, she's, she's more, um, conservative and much more chill than the other two. Right. But the other two are your karma. Yeah.

Exactly. I got to give you fame a last for a reason. I love that. Yeah. I'm so moving on.

You're going through this heartbreak. You're having to go through this. I did playboy. Yeah. So yeah.

Is that what you did or so did you broke up with? Yeah, that's what I did.

And he never, I was on Pacific blue.

And they wanted me to be a celebrity pictorial. And he would never let, he was a no. Yeah. He was like, no way. You know, Mexican, you know, no, no, no.

Um, but at the time, I needed the money to, like pay my attorney to, you know, to, um, uh, do the, the Palomones suit. Did you guys settle and the Palomones suit? Yes. Yeah.

Okay. He ended up settling. He ended up being very, um, I'm like, couldn't we have just done this like a year ago? I think he just wanted to see if you had it in you. Yeah, maybe.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have a choice. I was like, you know, I'm like, back to it.

Motherfucker. I don't want to do this. I was like, I love me. Please don't make me do this. I won't do it.

Yeah. So I ended up doing playboy. But they wouldn't make me a celebrity, uh, uh, a pictorial after that. See, so it like ruined it hurt my career. Right.

And so, uh, they said, well, we'll give you to make you play me. You know, you can pick your month. Wouldn't that be better to be a playmate though than just a celebrity pictorial? Because this isn't that like a one time thing? Yeah, it's a one time thing, but you get paid a lot more.

Gotcha. Yeah. You get paid a lot more. So it's hundreds of $1,000 or $20,000. Yeah.

“And as a playmate, you know, you have to do a video.”

You have to do certain things. But, you know what, my playboy experience was. Yeah.

The most epic, coolest, amazing, like shooting at Playboy Studio West was Steve Way to

Harmony Fray Tag, like just, you know, the kings of photography. It was just such a, a really cool time and half and just was so good to me. Yeah. I never dated him. No, you don't have to fuck him to be a playmate.

Like, he was a complete gentleman, a class act to me and welcome to me into his home. I love that whole era of Playboy. Yeah. I felt like that was the time that like, women kind of all came together for just a cause. And like, it was just like, you know, it was like a girl gang.

And it was like your part of that girl gang. I did work for Playboy TV. I wasn't pretty enough to make it in the magazine. But I did shit. Well, listen, I shot with, I think his name was Bill White at Playboy West.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. And they were just like, no. They were, you know, they, I mean, sometimes they power tripped a little bit.

Yeah. Which is fine. Yeah. Which is fine. But I was, I, you know, partied.

Yeah. Did the whole Playboy thing. The whole Playboy. Yeah. But that era was just, I don't know.

Like, even though it was for a nude magazine, it was so wholesome. It was so wholesome. It was so weird to say that. But it was. It was so true, though.

And, you know, it was, and, you know, it was good. Teaching women to embrace their bodies. Yeah. Really. Yeah.

And every, so interesting. Because it's like a sisterhood. All the playmates are like a sister. We're, you know, the pageantry. There's sisterhood in that.

I used to try to get the page and girls to go to dinner with the playmates.

But then never went well.

So.

“Did that, how epic would that be to have the pageant Playboy edition?”

Yeah. That would be crazy. Yeah. There's a lot of girls now that, you know, do it. I know that their pageants are over.

They're like, I want to do it. Yeah. Oh, I wish he did it years ago. Yeah. So cool.

Tell me about it. So I have a couple of times too. I thought he was always so sweet. Yeah. He was a little disconnected.

Yeah. He was just kind of like there and just kind of did as a thing. Yeah. I first met him when I was Miss USA and I was doing a charity event. And he was still married to Kim at that time.

And I remember he came up to me and he goes, You know, you're truly a beautiful young woman. And I just thought like, what a compliment. From him. I went to bed that night like holy shit.

You know, I remember when I was like, this is crazy. Wearing people and things weird. But I remember my dad just to have like playboy, you know, saying my dad to do. Yeah. In the bathroom.

In the bathroom.

I remember looking at them. I just thought the women were so beautiful.

“And I remember being on the bus and kids were like, what do you want to be when you grow up?”

And I was like, a playboy bunny. Yeah. I didn't know what that meant. And I remember everyone being like, oh my god. Yeah.

Then, you know, ironically end up becoming a playboy. Bunny later is very, very funny. But I was, yeah, I was 19 when I first met half. And then, you know, I was with Oscar. I wasn't allowed to do it.

But then when I was 25, turning 26, that's when I became a playmate. And, and I vowed for, you know, playmate of the year. It was between me and Darlene. They made his go shoot. I'm just a white backdrop.

Completely naked. I know. And I was between she and I. And that's when he had like seven girlfriends. And I think like five of his girlfriends were in the contention.

You know, but I never felt pressure or anything like that.

But I was the first playmate to ever have a belly button ring. So I love that. Yeah. And I had like a little rabbit head. So I feel like they were back a minute.

They didn't let tattoos either. Yeah. They didn't have, you weren't allowed to have piercings or tattoos. I've been like, I'm, but he changed that as he got old. Yeah.

And times change. How do you feel about all the stuff that's coming out about have right now online? It's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's disgusting. I mean, there's just, you know, there are playmates that I think do things for money and for attention and for fame and, you know, the playmates who really knew half and were part of that family. You know, are just completely, it's just vile.

And just, you know, let him rest in peace. The fuck are you guys doing? Yeah. Ripping this man apart and he can't defend himself. Yeah.

Yeah. I have no respect for that shit, you know, at all. I love that you're standing up for him though. Yeah. Yeah.

And I just, you know, I spent every Easter there with my, with Travis and my children. You know, I mean, he was a wonderful man. Yeah. Yeah.

I love that you're taking a stance, especially at the time.

I'll always be easy. So fuck off in the sunset. Sears thing. Gross. He did so much for so many women.

Yeah. And if any of those women were homeless or had a drug addiction, he would have, he would have housed them, taken care of them and gotten them sober. He's disgusting for them to do that. Yeah.

I never knew that. I never knew that. He rehabbed women like that. Yes, he did. Well, numerous.

Crazy. So after you did playboy, you're getting Stella's getting a groove back. Yeah. Take me on this journey. Yeah.

I met Travis like very soon after. And it was literally like the minute I got over. I never really got it. I didn't get over Oscar for a decade or so. But I kind of got past it.

Yeah. I was out in Hollywood. And my girlfriend was like, I met this guy in his, his name's Rob. Skinhead Rob from the Korean Square. Yeah.

Yeah. And remember, she was like, yeah, I met this guy. Like, come with me. Like, I was going to be her wingman. I was like, all right.

And we went to this.

“I think it was called like the standard or something.”

Oh my, oh my god. Yeah. I had a lot of drug nights there. You want to be put did I think? Fuck.

Well, I think I was died there one night. Oh my god. No. Cocaine and Xanix was a hell of a fucking shit binge party. Yeah.

That'll do it. Yeah. Yeah. So I went there. And she was with Rob.

And I think like George Clooney was there that night. He was everywhere back then. I was there. He did. He used to.

I can't even believe him. I'm going to say this. He, when I used to work at the palms. Yeah. He would come and group together.

All the fucking cocktail waitresses. And they would go upstairs and fuck him. Like I was there when it happened. I wasn't in the room. But I was working.

Yeah.

He never wanted a cocktail waitress.

Yeah. He was doing his thing. He George Clooney was the man, dude. Yeah. Like all he had to do was walk by and bitches would bitches.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a fine mother fucker though. He was.

Yeah. He's still sexy. Where the fuck is he? He got married. Yeah.

He's just living the dream. He's living the dream. Yeah. George Go. Go George Go.

Yeah.

“I think I was like talking to him at the bars.”

Everything. And then, you know, she introduced me to Travis. And he had a big mohawk back then. And not, you know, back then, no one had mohawk. Yeah.

He was fucking, you know. He was tatted up pretty. Not as much. Now he was still tatted up pretty pretty tight. And I was just like, I thought this is who the fuck.

I didn't know who Blake went. He too was. And I kind of was like, oh, I think it was like with Oscar. Like, oh, that's you Jack. And I was like, oh, didn't they have like little people on the MTV music video.

Yeah. And bunch of chords like playing around. That's how I remember him. And what kind of music did you listen to? To not know who Blake won 82 was.

I listened to hip hop and rock. Okay. Yeah. I listened to hip hop and rap. Yeah.

And R&B gotcha. Yeah. So I know clue. And I just remember being like, wow. He's really, you know, Oscar so clean cut and more soon.

He doesn't even have to have to. He's not one tattoo. Yeah. And I was like, oh, this guy is really fucking tattooed. And I was like, all right.

I'll be your wingman, you know. And they were like, oh, he's getting a divorce. He's in the middle of a divorce. And the Travis was married. Yeah, he was married to a girl named Melissa.

And just a regular girl. Just a regular girl. Yeah, she's a real estate agent today. Nice nice person. Yeah.

And I was like, I don't want to fucking deal with a guy going through a divorce. Yeah. Like, what a mess. I was like, I'll just be your wingman. George sent me a beer.

Yeah. Like that kind of thing. Go George Go.

And so we just like talked and I remember he called me Oscar. Like he was like, what up Oscar? Like kind of teasing me about Oscar. Cause I was like, you know, I was known as Oscar's girlfriend. The gold digger.

You know, I was like, okay. And I was like, what? And then the next week, because you know, you would go to the same club every week. Yeah. Give it Thursday.

You know, the same thing. And she was like, I missed that.

“Because that's how it was back in the day.”

Yeah. Yeah. We used to have like wasted space out here. Yeah. You were like Wednesday.

We go here every week. Yeah. And my girlfriend was like, I'm going to go meet Rob again. Like come with me. And I was like, fuck.

Okay. And I guess I'll go. I guess I'll go. So I was like, yay. And so I went and Travis was there again.

And this time like he came up to me.

And we like, I'll never forget it.

Like it was something stupid. Like I was just like, what's your sign? Like I said it. Like what's your sign? Or something like that.

And we just started talking and then Rob and my girlfriend at the time. Natasha, we all went to like back to his hotel. Because he was staying in a hotel to be away from his wife. And. And we just like.

Travis is hotel. Yeah. We were all just like listening to music and drinking and having fun. And he and I kissed. And I remember like looking like stepping back and being like,

What the fuck was that? Like holy shit. Like I just met like the love of my life. And I was like, I'm going to have your baby. And I just knew it in six months later.

Like a friend. Oh my goodness. Which I was but I mean, and I was so madly. I mean, even like I never thought I would love again or kind of meet that kind of connection. But Travis is definitely more.

The love of my life more way more than Oscar. What is Oscar's sign? He's an Aquarius. Okay. Yeah.

That's crazy. Yeah. And Travis is a scorpion. Yeah. Which is crazy.

Yeah. And Travis is a scorpion. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah.

But if you have a Virgo moon, then that makes sense. Because Virgo scorpio or soulmates. I would love to see you guys as charts. I'm surprised. I'm sure somebody's done them online.

But yeah. Do you feel like you and Travis were twin flames? Oh, 100%. Because you guys had like a long tumultuous relationship. Yeah.

People don't even realize how long after. They're like, Oh, they got divorced in 2008. I'm like. Yeah. We lived with each other like a married couple to like almost 2012.

Yeah. People don't know that. Take me on this journey. You don't Travis kiss. What happens after that?

You guys just instantly connected. Like instantly connected. And he was touring with the transplants. And I would drive to his house like every weekend. And we would just see each other as much as possible.

And I just was, I mean, we just were together.

“I mean, did he love bomb you as much as he love bombs?”

We were that we were the OG love bomb. I don't like it. I don't like it. You get deja vu. Of course.

Please. Like. I do remember. Watching that was just like, I was like, Oh, Christ. You know, like this is hard to watch.

Well, you definitely have this happening. Yeah. I feel like it was a little more acceptable when you guys did it. Yeah. Because it felt more real.

Yeah. You know, and I'm not talking shit about them. I'm just saying. Yeah.

You guys did do it first.

And it was just more accepted back then too. Yeah. And we, you know, we got our, you know, I got pregnant six months later. And. Were you guys living together by a certain already?

Yeah. I told him on Valentine's Day. And. And yeah, we just, we were just, it was really one of the happiest times of my life. Yeah.

And when we had land in, um, we had land in. And then that's when MTV came to us and asked us if, you know, the newlyweds were going off and asked us if we wanted to meet the barcours. And in fact, then, you know, reality TV was so new. I mean, you had the Hawseborns and you had the newlyweds.

That was really it. Yeah. There was no other, you know, that they were the pioneers of reality TV. So that's when we did meet the barcours. And that, you know, that was really.

I watched those episodes now. And I didn't like who are those people. It's not like another lifetime though. I watched all all the original reality TV. The newlyweds meet the barcours.

Yeah. The Osborns loved all of it.

“And I think that's when TV was fucking great.”

Yeah. And because back then, it wasn't scripted. Right. I mean, they really just had two teams of people following you around. With cameras.

That was your life. Yeah. And you didn't have to get, you know, legal to say, Oh, you can go eat in that restaurant or you can go into that store. People, you didn't have to sign their lives away.

You could just, you just went to that store, you know. I know how TV shows are shot. And I know that they're edited.

And, you know, there's always a narrative that they want to paint.

Exactly. How do you feel about people always saying that? Oh, Shane, all she did was ever lay in bed. Oh, it's so fucking annoying. It's so fucking annoying.

Because I'm like, where do you guys think I'm like, Narcoleptics? Something like, it was supposed to be funny. It was supposed to be like a little like, It was supposed to be entertaining.

Yeah. It was supposed to be like a funny part. I mean, not bad looked comfortable as fuck. I let men, I love my beds. I love my beds.

And I do love sleeping. I do have chronic fatigue. Like I was diagnosed with that when I was like 19. So when I work, when I first start any work schedule, I usually relapse and it's very, very hard for me to like,

get real irritable with people. But I, you know, what they don't understand is that I was the one rock and baby is all fucking night long. Right. So I would Travis wasn't.

He was on tour and he was at the time. He also had a pretty heavy pill addiction. You know, he's been very open and candid about. I didn't know that at the time. I was so naive.

I didn't even realize it. But you didn't know that he was an addict. No. No, I didn't know it all. And what was he taking like lower tabs?

That was the thing. He was taking like, Darversetsers like, like, Norcos or something like that. Love to good Norco back in the day.

I don't even like, I don't even know. If I took a noor, I'd like throw up now. Yes, I would too.

“But back in, that's what I used to look for because they had less”

aspirin and them than the blue pills. Okay. I'm like, I didn't even know he was like on him. You know, he just, that's how he functioned, you know. And, um, but I would be, you know,

the cameras were start rolling. They'd leave around 10 o'clock at night. And then, you know, Travis would go to bed. But I would have to go put like, Autiana in her bed.

And I'd put on like, you know, a movie. And then I would go in like rock land in. And mind you, I was pregnant. And then, you know, I'd rock land in. And then I'd go lay down with Autiana until she fell asleep.

And then I would go lay down. And then one of them would wake up like five minutes later. You know, and then I would go rock the baby. And then I would go, you know, lay down with her. And then when I had Alabama on the show.

Well, then I had to go put Autiana down. Go rock Alabama. You know, you know, then go rock land in. And then one of, you know, I was constantly so by the time, like, our nanny would come at like eight in the morning.

And the crew would show up. I was exhausted. You know, and it was like, I need to sleep. I've been up all night. Like working the car.

Yeah. You know, so I mean, so when people say that all the time,

“like, oh, you're a deadbeat, I think I did one episode where the nanny came in.”

And I, the nanny stayed the night. Right. And I actually got, like, I was like, I need to get like eight hours of sleep. Like solid eight hours of sleep. Like I can't have it broken up in three hours.

What you do with the newborn and stuff. And so I had Liz, who's still with us to this day. Yeah. She came over and they filmed it and they asked her. They, she can't unmute the barkers they filmed her.

And they, and, and I said, how were they last night? You know, so all the people at home thought that I had a fucking nanny. The entire time every night. And it was just like one night.

And then it was like, um, a deadbeat mom that never like,

who slept and never took care of her kid. That's exactly why I wanted to ask that question. Yeah. Because I know being in the industry and having to film our reality show that we do. Yeah.

If I can, I know exactly that there's always more to the story. Yeah. And I don't think people comprehend people on the other side of the keyboard. Don't comprehend that what you see on TV is completely edited. Yes, it's real.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's completely chopped up and edited and there's so much-- Yeah, it's the biggest story line to entertain you. It's supposed to, you know, it was supposed to be funny.

Yes. But, you know, it, and, you know, I honestly think,

“and I think the worst thing you can do to your woman is to shit on her as a mother.”

Yeah. I think it's really one of the cruelest and most vial things. And I honestly can't imagine going up to a stranger or to a person or going online and saying to someone, you're a fucking piece of shit mother. You're a deadbeat mother.

Yeah. I don't fucking know you from a hole in the wall. I can't imagine saying that to a stranger and saying that to them about, you don't know what's going on in someone's home, what's going on with their husband. And people, you know, because we had that show.

And I know I'm a public person and, you know, it's like, and, you know, I put myself in that position, but at the same time, you know, you know, this is where this is where I stand up for us. And I have been standing up to online bullies and they're fucking hate it. Just because we are open online does not give you the right

to tear us apart for that fucking reason. They're like, well, you're a celebrity. You should be able to handle it. Yeah. How about go fuck yourself?

You'd never say this to my face.

Yeah. Exactly. You know, I'd stand up to the bullies and they don't fucking like it. And it, and Instagram's the worst, like, I can't go live right now. Get on TikTok girl.

You ain't seen nothing yet. Yeah. Yeah. Instagram's like the worst. Well, I mean, in the way that they don't defend you.

Oh, at all. Like, you know, I told someone to like a fuck themselves. Or I called them a bitch the other day. You know, shooting on my daughter. Like, we're shooting on me as a mother or something.

And you know, and I just was like, bitch, get off my page. Yeah. 30 days. And it's like, and it's just, you know, they probably have a computer that's just like, I said the word bitch.

Yeah. So I can't go live for 30 days. But it's like, did you see the comment? Yeah. That person, you know, is there any repercussions for these people's actions for that?

Like, you know, what if I, what if I wasn't as strong as I am? And I go fucking blow my brains out. Like, you know, do you like, I don't understand it. It's really, you know, it's, it's, but I, back to what I was saying. I honestly think criticizing women like that,

especially as a mother is really the grossest and lowest form of harassment. You can do the worst.

I could never go to somebody's page and just say anything mean.

And if I don't, if I don't want to go to the page, yeah, even if I don't agree with it, I'm just like, and keep scrolling. You know, I don't have to, to word vomit on this person's page,

If I don't like something, I don't view it.

I don't go to their pages. I scroll on by, you know, like, absolutely. I don't pay attention to it, but, you know, it's, I mean, people. And I used to, when my space was big in the day, I used to find space. We never had problems.

We had the top fucking A. We had, we could put music on our profile. We could design our profiles. It was so tall. Didn't fucking fuck with us.

Right. Nobody got violations. Yes. Like, bring my space back. Please.

“Tom, we're like, I think you're the timber like, bought it just in,”

bring it back. I bring Tom. Tom followed me on fucking TikTok. And I was more excited about that than fucking, like, I matched with him on a dating app.

[laughter] Tom, you dirty boy, yeah. He was on the league. I didn't even think of like three people a day. And he's like, yes, it's really me.

Oh, my God. That is so fun.

I mean, never had never talked.

It was the same picture. And I was like, is this really the top? Oh, my God. That's weird. I would love to see Tom in person.

I got to get Tom on the podcast. Yeah. All right. So moving back to media markers. Is that kind of where you guys as relationships started following

apart a little bit? A little bit towards like the end of the season. I think what really happened, or really started to affect our relationship, which is the irony to this day.

For me, is he didn't want to be known as like a couple or a reality star. He wanted to be known as a musician. Right. Which I understood.

And I respected 1,000 percent. And you know, back then I was like, you know, I want to do all the things that you see reality stars doing now. Like I wanted to start a clothing line in a brand. And he was just so against all of it.

Like he was so punk rock. And I was so against like, but he had famous stars and traps. Yeah, he did. But that was, yeah, Strav's famous stars and traps.

But that was like, it's own company. He wasn't using the TV show. He had already created that show. He wasn't an opportunist with the TV show. And, and.

And so, you know, he's we kind of put an end to it. So he isn't got the point of having a reality show though. That's how that lies off of it. To capitalize. And I'm not talking shit.

I'm just saying like, I would think that you would want to capitalize off whatever you could, especially with the attention that you guys were getting. Yeah, and I just think for him, you know, he was the star.

“And I think when it became about us, like as a couple,”

and I wanted to be like a power couple, you know, and he, he didn't want that. He wanted to like, you know, I think he was being the man in the center and the musician. And he wanted to be known and taken seriously as a serious musician.

And that I could respect. But that's kind of like where it, like it, it started to decline. When did the affair with Kim Kardashian start? It started after the affair with Paris Hilton.

Okay. Yeah. Here comes Paris again. Yeah. There comes Paris.

And I already got like mind you in that club. I got in Paris Hilton's face, you know. When Oscar and I were having a conversation, she bribed, he popped in. And I was like, aren't you fucking this one here?

Are you fucking this one? She was like, I don't even know him. I'm like, yeah, you do. And so she leaves and, you know, he and I continue to argue in Oscar and I laugh.

So she and I already had words like that night. And then yeah, I don't, I don't know. He and I were arguing and we kind of like separated. But we're still living in the same house. How did you know he was having an affair with Paris?

They caught him like making out on camera. Oh, gosh, like all over TMZ and everything. And I was just like, wow. I feel like back then Paris was the party girl. And I don't feel like she really even knew what the fuck was going on.

Because I had met Paris a few times out here. And every time I met her, she was sloshed. Yeah. She can excuse us for her. No, you were all partying and fucking doing our own thing.

But 100%. She's a kid. I mean, I was a kid. I mean, I was probably 26, 27.

“And she was like, I think like 17 years old or something.”

Yeah, she was young. Yeah, she was young. A lot of these men had taken advantage of her. Absolutely. I would agree with that one.

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. But yeah, she, I remember this is the big incident with her. We, I was, I was doing dancing with the stars. And I think Bama was like six months old.

And, and the dancers back then, you know, all the famous ones. Now, couldn't get into the clubs. And they needed me to get them into the clubs. So we went over there was like, high on sunset. And then there was this other club.

And God, I remember hiding. Yeah, yeah, awful. And I was just there for the first time. Since this incident like last week for Jason Memo is vodka, long quarries. Not for him, but it was vodka.

That was like, he was there. But I've known him since he was 19.

But like, you guys never have to know.

No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. He's single now.

Since he was a model. I mean, he's cute. Yeah. He was cute. He was like young Elvis when, you know, when he first started the LA.

It was like a model and stuff. Yeah, anyway. But yeah, so we were, I was at this one club.

She was actually at that party.

“And she was like, you, you need to leave.”

And she was like, mind you, I'm married to Travis. And she was like, um, Travis and Paris are coming in. Like, you need to leave. And I was like, and so were you guys weren't split at the time? We were separated.

God. He was like, I think, doing the whole hotel thing. Oh, no, when I was at the house with the baby. And I only, I was going to go out that night. I just went to get those other dancers, those kids into the club.

And, um, and so when I went down, so I went down to hide. And, um, and I was just like doing my thing.

And, um, and Cheryl Burke, I'll never forget this came in.

And it was like, Paris is here. And I was like, why is she here? She was just making out my husband at the fucking bar down the road, you know. And, um, hey, Tiffany is trying to hear from the WWE SmackDown. Tiffany Time can be crazy, y'all, and when I get a break, that means it's Chumblet Time.

Chumblet Gassina has hundreds of online social games and new titles landing every week. There's always something fresh to try. And the daily boosts make Chumblet even more fun. They're little epiphanys that make my day sparkle. Ready for a fun way to switch off and take some time for yourself.

Let's Chumblet. And then I was like, you know what, I'm just going to leave. I'm going home. Like, I can't, I gotta get the fuck out of here. You know, just humiliating to be asked to leave. And then, you know, this, you know, whatever.

And, and there she was with Stavarose.

She was making out with Stavarose with him.

Yeah, she was making out with him. And I was like, I have a fucking six month old at home. And I have a fucking, like, two-year-old and a five-year-old kid. And you're fucking making out my husband a block down. And now you're making out with this dude.

You don't even love my husband. You're destroying my family. And you're even fucking love him. You know, it's not even like, this is your soul made. Or you think you're going to have something with him. And I'm sure you were really hurt.

I was destroyed. I was destroyed. And I, um, I went up to her. And, uh, and I was like, you're, you're a real fucking bitch. And she looked at me and she went, you're a, she used her voice. You know, her voice that she does, and she went, you're a fucking bitch.

And I just went at it. And, um, you punch her in the drawing room. Yeah. And I was good. Allegedly. Allegedly. Yeah. And I was about to go at it and stab her. I was fucking shoved me down, like, if the staircase.

And if, like, there weren't people coming up the staircase, I probably would have rolled down the stairs and fucking died. And then, um, yeah, and he came up to me and he got in my face. He poured a drink on my head. He got in my head. He had, like, my wrist.

And I was like, bending it back. And I need him in the, in the nuts to get him, like, away from me. And, um, Sam, like, the owner and stuff, they were all like yelling me.

And he, like, basically shoved me out the door, the front door to the, the paparazzi.

“And that's what all that footage is. Like, if you Google, it's, it's terrible.”

And I had to walk from that fucking bar down to the other bar to go get my car. Yeah, paparazzi was like chasing me. It was terrible. So that was, like, kind of, like, the end of it all. But, and then he went to Paris, which was in his book. Um, it's kind of like, and he was with Paris.

And at the time, I guess he was talking to Kim Chew. I don't know. I think that's when they first started talking as friends. And, um, and he came back, he, he got flown back from a tour because he was so fucked up on drugs. And I got him sober. And I remember telling, like, his friend little, so even after all of this,

um, even after, you know, the situation with Paris and stuff like that. Um, and then, you know, knowing about the Kim's situation. I didn't know about Kim at the point. You didn't know about Kim. Okay. Gotcha. Um, he still came back to you. He came back. Yeah.

Hey, I'm really need help. I have a problem. Yeah. And I helped him. And I told a little Chris. I was like, you, in Paris, we're still trying to call him. I was like, I was like, live your fucking friend right now. Look at him. That's, that's what you do to your friend.

Don't bring another fucking drug into this house. Right. Don't you do it. You know, and, um, it was like some Johnny Cash type shit. You know, like, I mean, I was egging people's cars and stuff. Like, you know, like, those cars did you. His man, like his assistant.

You know, trying to pick him up to take him out to meet bitches and give him drugs. You know, everyone wanted to be a rock star. They all wanted, you know, they needed him to go party and drink and meet bitches and feel cool. Right. You know, but he had a family. And, you know, you know, trying to help him heal.

You know, trying to, yeah. So, uh, and we got back together. And we were trying to heal over that. I actually helped, um, create the, the girls line of famous stars and straps. And I did all the campaigns. And I got all my playmate friends. And, you know, Adrian Curry and Tiffany John, Tiffany, um,

“Yeah, I think John's a model, you know, big models and stuff.”

And I did all the women's line and stuff. And then that's when Kim came in. And she was just starting. They didn't have their show or anything. Wasn't Kim, Kim was best friends with Paris. With Paris. Yeah. It was like the two of them had like a, like a, who can we fuck competition in LA?

You know, like, you know, like, you know, who's husband can we fuck? Like, it was pretty crazy. I mean, they really did.

Yeah.

“That's why today when they have issues now, I'm like, oh, you know.”

And I was always, it always comes back on.

It always, yeah. And like I said, and I'm not defending their actions. Yeah. They were so young. They were.

And I mean, I've done shit that I fucking completely regret that I did in my 20s. Now that I'm in my 40s, I'm like, why did I do that? Yeah. For me, it's like, hey, you did what you did. Yeah.

And that's just, say, sorry, or that's fine. Yeah. But it's like, you know, don't be shocked when you, you know, when you feel the angry wife. Yeah. Is that TikTok sound?

You're shocked? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Kim came in and then what happened there?

So she's shot for famous stars and straps. And this was the first time that he handled the shoot. Gotcha. Mine, mind you, she's wearing the stuff I designed, you know. And I was just like, why is this girl on your, because I associated her with Paris?

And you know, and I was like, why is this girl on your computer? Like, why, what's going on? And he was like, oh, I just, you know, she's up and coming. And I just wanted to like, you know, get involved and stuff. And I knew like things were getting weird.

And at that time, we were just still like, you know, kind of working on things. And I had a house in the same neighborhood. And so we would, like, going back and forth to each other's homes. And someone anonymously and randomly text me their conversations. And I'm pretty sure it's Paris.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's Paris. I don't know. Wow. But somebody just text you from a random number. And it's screenshots.

Yeah, of all Travis and Kim's conversations. And what were those like? They were trying to meet up at her sister's house to fuck. Which sister? I don't know.

Oh, I don't know. Wouldn't that be crazy if it was going on? I know. I know.

“I think Courtney, how would that person have gotten those screenshots?”

That's crazy. Someone got in her phone for sure. Wow. I went to the house and I showed them to him. And I was bawling.

I was just, so I was just fucking broadcasting. I've been in relationships like that. And it's like, it just tears you down as a human. Yeah. And I was a woman.

You just, yourself a steam is just a shot at this point. I just, and I wanted, I wanted, you know, I felt like such a failure with Oscar. I wanted this relationship to work. And, you know, we did get married. And we had a successful TV show.

And, you know, and I was so in love with him. And so happy. And I wanted to have what my parents had for my children. I wanted my children to see their mother and father in love and to walk in on them dancing. And have what I had.

You know, and I just knew, like, I wasn't going to be able to give my children that at that moment. Right. And I showed him the text messages and he deleted them. And so I said, I don't see anything. And I was like, we're going to do this.

Like we're going to do this. Wow. And that's the biggest admission of guilt. Yeah. Just like, and then she called.

I called her. We had words. And she just said to me that she didn't like white guys. She only dated black guys. And I was like, Kim, the fuck anyone to be famous.

Like, you really will. And you fucked, you know, that little singer boy. And you, you know, and you. You fucked the insane kid. You fucked the insane kid, you know, or whatever.

I think she, she was with them. I don't know all their names. Yeah. You didn't Google it. Yeah.

It's out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's definitely out there. But I was like, you'll fuck anyone to be famous.

They never really recovered from that.

Yeah. Well, it's hard because that was multiple times. And just as a woman, it's like, you're self-priced. I felt stupid. You know, I felt stupid.

I was like, you're just making me like, dumb, you know, like, over and over. You know, over and over. So I filed for divorce. What year is this? 2008.

2008. So you filed from divorce from, for divorce from Travis. Yeah. Take me on this. You're starting over again.

But this time you got three babies. Yes. We're starting over again. I go back to my house. Um, he gets into a plane crash.

Mm. And well, we, we actually started working on things again. I just started talking. This is where the twin thing comes in. Yeah.

We started working on things again. And I guess things, you know, according to his book, everyone can read it. You know, they decided that, you know, they would just be friends. But, you know, I think there's a lot more going on there. Um, but I mean, if you read his book, when people read his book, you know,

there's TikToks and stuff about it too. And I'm like, he was fucking married. Like, you know, I mean, I caught him with like Lindsay Lohan. Kimberly Stewart, Ter Conner, fucking Paris, Kim. Like, you know, he, you know, he was living the rock star life.

He lived in the rock star life, you know.

So, um, but he, you know, we always came back to each other.

“And that's why I always say twin flames, because no matter what you guys went through,”

you guys always came back. Yeah. Do you think that he'll come back again if things don't work out with him and Courtney? I don't know. Would you let him come back?

I don't know. I read people ask me that. You know, I'll always love him. I'll always love him immensely and deeply. And, um, and I'm not bitter or jealous.

I, I don't know him anymore, right? I really don't. I don't, I don't know him as a human being anymore at all. So, if I ever did hang out with him, I would have to relearn him. relearn him and get to know him as just a friend first and as a person, you know.

But as the father of my children and as just like as someone that I,

I always love him. For sure. Yeah.

So, he gets in this plane crash.

Yeah. Which is a brutal plane crash. I was at the house. We were together at that time. So, this is after you filed for divorce.

Yeah. After we're, yeah. We're not, but we're now we're rekindling. We were talking about getting remarried. And, um, he, uh, he, he, he, he, he had just finished tour.

And he had to go do this, uh, show with DJ AM in North Carolina. And he, uh, he didn't want to go. They got a private jet. And he was like, you know, mom, I'm like, this is, this jet is really little. And I was like, you know, and he wanted me to go on it.

And I, and I had this really weird feeling in the kitchen. And I, I was so strange.

“And, um, and I remember, like, going, if we both die,”

who's going to take care of my kids? I remember just having like that thought. And, um, and I was like, my mom and dad are too old. And his mom and dad are too old. And, you know, like, he was going to raise my children.

Like his sister, like, what's going to happen? And I just said, you know, honey, I don't, I don't want to go. Like, I would think I should stay back with the kids. And I was like, you know, you're going to want to go play and come home. And I'm going to want to go and party, you know, and you're not going to want to.

And it's going to be a big fight. And, uh, I was like, just go and come back and like, like, like, start our life together. You know? And he was like, okay, but he took the plane there. He did the show.

And he wanted to get back in DJ AM and then had another show. And he was supposed to stay another night and fly home. Like, commercially. But DJ AM wanted to come back for a gig.

And so they voted on getting this plane, basically.

And he was like, I'm going to come home early. And I remember when he got there, he was like, honey, I have a really bad feeling about this plane. And I was like, you say that about every plane.

“We both say this about every, yes, I tell you.”

I tell you, I am every time we're about to get on a flight. Yeah, I was the same way yesterday. Like I was like, cry on the plane. I was like, I sent next to a pilot. And he was like, I was like, we're both not going down detail.

Not today. We got the angel arrived. Yes, the angel, the airline angel arrived. But yeah, so he, it was so weird because I felt like he called me 15 minutes later after the plane crashed. And I felt like they just landed. I don't know how to explain it to you.

It felt like hours went by and they like, and I, and Alabama was in the bed. And it was so weird. Alabama sat up and she went, mommy wears a little Chris. And I went, where's a little Chris? I was like, a little Chris is with daddy.

Honey, like, lay down, go back to sleep. And I was watching a movie and I got a call. And it was a paramedic or police officer. And he was like, man, is this Shayna Moukler? And I was like, yeah, and he's like, there's been a terrible plane crash.

And I said, and I thought they were fucking around, like joking. And I was like, that's not funny. You know, like, I don't think that's a funny joke. And he's like, no, man, there's been a bad accident. And then I was like, guys, it's not, it's not funny.

And he goes, man, I am deputy blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's been a horrible plane accident. You need to listen to me. And then I heard Travis screaming. And he was screaming on my fire.

I'm on fire. And he's like, we need to airlift him to the Atlanta something. And he didn't want to. And then I talked to him. And he was like, they're all gone.

Like, little Chris has gone. They're gone. And he didn't want to get on another, like, an airlift. So they blame him. So they drove him.

You know, I mean, and he was burned on like 70% of his body.

“And I, um, I think I packed like a shoe and a remote control and a battery.”

And I fucking blew up. Yeah. And I remember mine, you know, like whatever. So out of it. And, um, and I was with him for the first, like, three, four weeks.

Um, there. And, um, in Atlanta. And then we took a tour bus back from Atlanta to the, um, burn center in Los Angeles. And, um, I was there with him there for the first, like, two, three weeks. And this is where it went bad.

Um, we got his computer to, uh, I've never shared this with anyone before.

Uh, so it's kind of crazy. Uh, I got his computer. And, uh, and I, we were doing it so the kids could face time with him. Because it mind you, the kids hadn't seen their dad now for almost a month and a half. And, uh, we just, when we, we were hoping that him seeing the kids would also give him the strength to keep fighting.

Right. You know, and, uh, was it like, like, infection and stuff like that? He didn't have infections, but just the pain got just the, just the, just the, what they had to do and what he had to endure. Yeah. And surgeries and the removal of skin and just it was really fucking horrifying.

Um, I, I wouldn't have lived. And I was supposed to be on that plane, you know, I would have, and we definitely wouldn't have lived because The, there were four guys and we would have let them have the back of the plane and Travis and I probably would have sat in the front. And we wouldn't have had our seat belts on and we would have, we would have died. For sure.

So, um, yeah, I always think about that. But, um, when I was setting up his computer any face time with the kids, but, um, and he was getting a blood transfusion and I looked in his email. And I saw all the emails from all the women. Oh, goodness. And I just, like, and that didn't bother me as much as back then you had to, to, when you went to TMZ and you wrote a comment, right?

to approve the comment. You can write, you know, Bob or Cindy Lou or whatever you want.

“But you have to, it's still, you still have to send it to an email.”

And then you have to click the link and then TMZ will, you know, approve it. And I saw all of these comments in his email that he was posting about me on TMZ about what a shitty mother I was and Chris, little Chris, about what a shitty mother I was and what a terrible person I was and, you know, and I had even read some of them and I couldn't fucking believe that he was the one behind some of those comments. Wow.

And I left the hospital and it would make me cry. I love the hospital. That's so hurtful. Yeah. And I went home and I cried with my mother's arms for hours.

It was terrible. It was like a terrible. And so that's when I was like, this is a man that you love that you're in. And I'm like, by a side, like, you know, like, I flew to be by a side and I, And I just fucking was like, I can't go back to, and I called his drum tech and the godfather of her children.

I was like, I'm not coming back to the hospital and I'm like, and this is why. And I need to like, we're, I need to figure some shit out. And, and I granted looking back now, I probably should have just fucking ate or lick my wounds and bend it by his side, while he was still recovering from that. But at that time, I felt like he, there's only like two people allowed into the room and he was in LA.

And he had his father and his sisters. And he had a huge hundreds of people were going to the hospital and visiting him every day. And I felt like he had a good support system. And for me, I just was like destroyed. And, um, do you feel like he held that against you?

And that was kind of like ammo for his arsenal. Later on, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And, you know, and so I just was going out getting drunk. You know, and I think like they, they took pictures of me with like, I, I, I, I was friends with Gerard Butler. I had known him since I was like 20. And now I'm like, I guess I'm like 34 at this point. And I had saw him on a club and the property took pictures of us.

And they made it seem like I was kissing him and stuff, but I wasn't. Yeah. And, um, and then Travis saw that.

And then we just like never really recovered.

It's crazy when they, when they can do it, but if you do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's all men are. Yeah. I'm sorry that you went through that.

“That's very hurtful. And I don't think that you should have had to have liked your wounds.”

And, you know, I understand most women would be like, well, she should have sought our most people would have been like, oh, she should have sought it up. No. When you've already been through so much hurt with somebody. Sure.

There's always that one thing that happens that literally breaks the straw of the camel's back. Yeah. That's how I am in relationships. Yep. I'll give and I'll give and I'll give.

Yeah. And then if something happened, it could be the fucking smallest thing. Which that was a big thing for you. But it could be the smallest thing.

And I'll never talk to this person again.

Yeah. Exactly. You know. Yeah. Well, we ended up talking.

Yeah. I know. You guys are just like glad we're practicing there. It's just because you guys really loved each other. Yeah.

We really feel like we could always feel the chemistry between Travis and you. Yeah. It was just real. I feel like you and Travis are going both of you are going to be searching for that connection that you guys have for the rest of your lives.

Whether you guys, I'm still searching for it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but men are men. And you know, our him and his other situation could be very happy.

Yeah. And you know, whatever. But it's just when you have a love like that with somebody. It's very hard to ever. Yes, for sure.

Yeah. And so once in a lifetime kind of a love. Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely.

So even after he hurt you, you still went back. We got back together. And I'll never forget. It was the first. You got back out of the hospital.

But he was still like. I'm a lot of medications and very instill healing. And he wanted to go to a restaurant. And I said, OK. And I remember watching him.

It was the first time I had seen him since I stopped going to the hospital.

And he got out of the car. And he grabbed Alabama. And he took her out of the car. And he looked fucked up. Like he just looked like he has been through it.

You know, we had like a beard. And you know.

“And, but I, and I remember him grabbing our daughter.”

And I just was like, that's it. I'm done. Like I'm going to heal this family. I'm going to heal this marriage. I'm going to let all this shit go and all this hurt in this pain.

And these affairs and everything. And I'm going to love this man. And I'm going to make this family right. And that's what I tried to do. I, um, I like cooked for him.

And I helped give his medications. And I wiped his balls. And I changed his dressings. And I was there for him, you know. And, um, and he just was like.

He just convinced because of the jarred Butler that I like cheated on him. You know, it's come in. That I did that job. You had a Scorpio travel. Yeah.

Like just convinced. And he just like, you know. And we were trying to date again. But we just like, there's just so much water. There was just so much.

And we just couldn't, we just couldn't do it. And, um, but we ended up living together. You know. And like, was it just as friends? Yeah.

Yeah. We were like, co-parents, you know.

And like, no, but we were just so in love with each other. But it just didn't want to like, didn't know how to do it. And, um, so, and we wanted to like, you know, be like there for our kids. And so we lived together. Like a couple, I think, till like almost 2014.

Wow. You know. And then till I met a, my ex-boyfriend Brian, who was a health angel. And, uh, and then I got kind of serious with him. And then I was like, okay, I don't think we should be living together anymore.

Like, we're not together. You don't want to work on this. I can't be living with you.

“Like, you know, like, you should have your days.”

And I should have my days. And we did what was like a nesting agreement where, I first we, you know, we lived together all the time. And then we did where the kids stayed in one house. And then I would go to the house, like Monday to Wednesday.

And then he would go to the house, like, you know, Wednesday to Sunday. And then, but the kids would stay in the same place. And we would go from our houses to that one house.

I love how the kids were always the focal point, though.

For sure. Like, always. Whatever happened, no matter what we've been through. We're going to try to make this work. That, I mean, that was the one thing.

And to this day, it's the one thing that he and I agree on. It's our kids. And just trying to give them the best life possible. Absolutely. Yeah.

So you move on. He moves on. Yeah. Is it over from there? So from there?

Yeah. It's over. I mean, I stopped talking to him about around 2014. We didn't. And we started following each other right before he and Courtney.

I don't know how long they've been together. Maybe two, three years, not sure.

“And then when he's got with Courtney, we stopped even just being cordial.”

We, we co-parent, you know, if there's some, I mean, my oldest daughter's 24. She doesn't, you know, people still shit on me to this day. Like, raise your kids.

I'm like, I have grown adult.

I have, my daughter's 24 years old. Yeah. She's a young adult. So like, I don't, like, need to re-er her anymore. You know, like, we're going to change her fucking diapers.

Like, you're like, I already had a baby. Yeah. My son, like, 20 years old. I'm like, he's living with his girlfriend. What do you want me to do?

What a house, kid. He's, they're both just soaking all of them. Are so beautiful. Thank you so much. Really proud of them.

And I'm, I'm, you so talented. They're all talented. And then Alabama, she's going to be 18, you know, on Christmas Eve this month. So it's like, she is your fucking twin. Yeah.

She's, in, in, internally too. She's like me and, you know, she's, she has that tenacity. It doesn't give a fuck and just, yeah. Yeah. So ambitious and, like, you know, people hate on her.

I mean, you want to talk about bullying a fucking kid. That kid has got it since she was 12. And she does not care. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, she's been raised in it. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like, it's probably second skin to her, you know.

Yeah. But still, no child deserves to be. No, no child, yeah. Ever. Yeah.

How does it make you feel whenever they did take to, like, public platforms and kind of talk shit about how you didn't raise them and stuff like that. Were you guys just like, he did argument and it was kid shit. Or I feel at the time when Travis got with Courtney. There was, like, some parental alienation going on there where, you know, I, you

“know, you have to understand to, you know, Travis, even when we weren't together, always wanted”

to be the super dad. I'm the best parent. I'm the best parent. And I'm like, bro, you win, like, you're the winner here. Like, you have all the money and you have all of this.

Like, you, you're the winner, you know? Yeah. Give the drummer some. You know, like, you're the, you win. Like, I'm not competing with you, you know?

Like, um, but I think, you know, when the Kardashians first came around, they were an hammer, just says, like, young kids would be enamored by that. I mean, I think there's a lot of glitter and fame and, you know, they watched them on TV and other dads dating one. And they're going to be on the show and, you know, and I think they got caught up in that. You know, what's your young kids would do?

Yeah. And, you know, they're buying them prada and they're buying them gifts and they're going to these events and they're meeting Kanye and they're, you know, all this big stuff. And I can't give them that. I don't have that.

I don't have access to that. I don't have the money to do that. I can't buy you guys prada every, you know, other weak and stuff. I don't, I can't do it. And my house isn't a mansion like Travis.

I don't have a movie theater. I don't have golf carts for kids to drive around. He's fun dad. Yeah, you know, he's everything, you know. And, um, and so I think comments were made.

I think they were influenced. And, um, and it was her fault. And it was, you know, and it was like, you know, and I've had conversations with them since and that, you know, they've apologized, but I'm not going to take one comment that my friend's name is, um, and I'm not going to take it.

And I'm not going to take it. I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it.

And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it.

And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it.

And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it. And I'm not going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it. And I'm going to take it.

And I'm going to take it. And I'm tired of people shooting.

“I mean, I don't have to like that fucking family.”

People do not have to like that family. You don't like just because the media shoves them down your throat does not mean that you have to like that. There are people that don't like that family. Don't watch that fucking show.

And don't give a fuck what Kim Kardashian's doing with her ass. There are people that don't care. I don't fucking care. And I'm not afraid of them. And I don't like them.

But what I did do is I removed myself. I removed myself so that they couldn't let them. I'm gone with my children over hating me. And I removed myself. And I took a step back.

And I was like, you know what? Go do what you guys need to do. And when you're ready, I will be here loving you unconditionally. And I will be here as your mother. And I will wait.

And that's what I did. That's what a real mom does. Yeah. You gotta let your kids kind of fall. And you know, figure it out for themselves.

Because then they'll respect you more than trying to control the narrative. Exactly. Yeah. You're so everybody. The relationship is great.

Yes. My kids are doing good. Yes. They're doing good.

“And everything, you know, this year, like I said,”

has been a little rocky for me with the loss of my parents. And, you know, and I had another pretty bad breakup. And yeah, I, let's move on to that. So Matthew, you're talking about Matthew. Yeah.

Matthew. Yeah. That was a public breakup. I was a public breakup too. You guys worked together for three years on three years.

Yeah. Yeah. And I love him. I love him very much. Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll always, always really care and love him.

We quarantined together. And, you know, there's something about, yeah. I remember watching team with someone. I was watching your stories during the war. We were so drunk.

We were, you know, we just talked actually, like last night. And we were laughing about quarantine. Like we were like, wow. We really did the damn thing. So are you guys friends now?

Because we're working on being friends. It's probably got to be hard to get back with somebody who has slandered you in the public. I have the way that he did too. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like you can't trust somebody. I just don't want you to be slandered. I just want you to be slandered. I just want you to be like, I'm like, whatever. You're like, who else wants to shit on me?

Let's go. Let's go. You know? Yeah. So you guys split.

And you guys are definitely in just not. Yeah. He's in the east coast. And I'm on the west coast. And, you know, I don't know what I'm doing in life right now.

I'm just kind of like floating and kind of just putting my, my, my journey in the hands. I've got my journey in the hands of God and in the universe because I, I've just, I've suffered so much loss. This year that I really don't know. And I really don't even create why I don't know what I want to do. And I'm not, I'm not stressing myself out about it.

I'm just kind of allowing myself grace and to heal. You know, you deserve a break. Thanks. You have been going to have it since you were a teenager. You know, pageants, pregnancy, divorces, drama.

Like you've been a ride. You probably need to take two years. Yeah. Just peace and healing and sitting be still. Yeah, you know, I get a lot of my fan base.

There's a lot of women who are divorced and single or going through breakups.

“And, you know, they asked me like, how, how do you do it?”

How do you, you know, and it's like you just kind of feel it. You just got to feel that pain and you got to feel that hurt. And, and it's not fun and it's uncomfortable. And, you know, I tell some of my, some of my fans. Like, you know, some days, I get up and I make a coffee and that's a good day.

No. You know, that's a good day. I got up and, you know, I was able to do that for myself. You know, so now it's like, that's all I'm doing is I'm just trying to, like, just heal. You have a lot of hurt and I can see it.

Yeah. I, as whenever you talk about it, do you do therapy? Have you considered going to that? No, I don't like, I don't like therapy. I don't like it.

But I, um, I definitely am doing the self work and, you know, the shadow work. The shadow work is shadow work. I definitely do do that. I mean, I do a lot of meditations and meditations. Yeah, saves me. Yeah.

Yeah, I do lots of visualization and meditations. I do a lot of journaling. I do, I do a lot of, like, you know, self centering work. And, and I know I'll get through it all over comment. But I think with the losing my mother and father, that was like my, that's where I went to heal.

You know, that's where I went. And so I have to kind of learn how to heal without that. And that in itself is its own journey.

I feel like you're always there for everybody else.

Yeah. It's okay. But it's not like it. And like, like, you know, we can laugh about it in smile through our pain. But at the same time, it's like, you deserve to be able to just take time off and just,

you know, fall in love with yourself. Absolutely. Just chuck in. Do what you got to do to fucking just, yeah, at this point, you've raised your babies. Exactly.

You're good. Yeah. You've done the mom shit. Yeah. You've done the acting.

You've done everything. And I still have, you know, I still believe in love.

“And I still have hope, like, you know, I think there is that person like out there for me and Mary.”

I love marriage. But I definitely know that I don't want to go into another relationship broken. I want to be like healed. And I want to, you know, you know, the next relationship I do get into. I want it to be one where I understand boundaries.

And I understand communication and all that stuff. And, and break this, that sort of narcissistic cycle. Yeah. You know, you see, baby. Well, China.

It has been amazing talking to you.

Yeah, thank you so much. You have such a great story, dude. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I feel like we're best friends now. Yeah. Absolutely. I've been like that before. I've been like that before, even mentioned.

But, you know, you give that energy to us that. Yeah. I appreciate that. And I want you to come back. I'll come back in where's it be honored.

And sit on this podcast and talk about whatever you want. And I'm excited to see them. What you do next. Thank you. Thank you.

You're precious commodity to the world. Thank you.

“Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you out?”

Yeah. You can find me pretty much on all social media platforms. It's just my name. So at Shayna Mochler on Instagram and wait. We forgot to talk about one thing.

Okay. You have an only fans. I do have only fans. Yes. We got to make mom a money.

Yeah. Make us go visit my only fans. Yes. Yeah. I love it.

Like pornographic. I don't like. I don't master it. But not if you did. Yeah.

You would probably. I mean, I mean, I made millions on OF. I could only imagine if you fucking went down there. Yeah. Would you ever?

I don't know. No. I don't think it's like for me.

But I do like what I basically like playboy style stuff.

Yeah. I do like customs. You know, and things like that. But I don't. I don't get too crazy on there.

Yeah. But I have a lot of fun and I chat and talk. And yeah. I have a lot of fun on there. All right.

But you know.

“And I think only fans isn't as taboo as as it used to be.”

Yeah. Especially with only fans TV. I do patch and stuff and only fans TV. Yeah. You know, so yeah.

You know, I'm teaching girls like interview skills on there. So I love it. Yeah. It's cool. I just had to make sure that.

Thank you. Yeah. You can go to my only fans. Shayna Mowgler.

Ellie fans dot com at Shayna Mowgler.

And my Instagram's at Shayna Mowgler. My Twitter threads. Everything. We've got to get you on TikTok. You need to be more active on TikTok.

I just am starting. So I would love to learn. We got you from you guys. Yeah. Please teach me.

Like I do. What works because I do not know. And I'm not even verified on there. I don't even know. Oh, you will.

Once you start getting more active and getting more views. Okay. They will. There's no reason why they wouldn't verify you. Okay.

Cool. Okay. But I'm learning. And bam, I just like laughs at me. I'm like, how do I do this?

Just for yourself. Yeah. Literally. That's exactly what bam it does. She just gets on there and does her make up.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to try it. I'm going to do live on there this month.

You went on Instagram, so I'm going to do live on there. Start moving your Instagram over to TikTok. Okay. Like they all talk to themselves, but TikTok a little bit. Sure.

It'll grow your business. Tenfold. Yeah. You guys have masters have to teach me. We got you, baby.

Thank you so much for coming by. Thank you for having me. Really. Thank you. Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dunblond.

I will see you guys next week. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] You guys know I'm big on making things feel like us.

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