Everything We Learn from Sarah J Maas on Call Her Daddy Podcast

So the front of the whole team is here for two gold boxes. The best auto-procaster world with me. What do you want to tell us about my best friends? Every day, we meet again and again. Or with guests from our world, with auto-intosias.

People who live in an auto-handle, live with other super-experts,

so really have to take part in the first, from the same auto.

So now it's time to start.

“That's why every day, we have a podcast about gold boxes.”

Write through the interview we're friends. [MUSIC] I'm Lexi, older sister, and fantasy-loord nerd. And I'm Nicole, younger sister, and romantic at heart. And we have absolutely no chill today because today is an emergency bonus episode.

It's been a minute, because Sarah J. Mas broke her silence as a guest on Call Her Daddy. And wow, do we have a lot to talk about, everybody? With that said, please listen closely to our spoiler warning for today. This entire episode will have Akatar series spoilers. We will be talking a lot about silver flames for this entire episode.

Much like it was throughout the interview.

We will keep our throne of glass, crescent city, and mass-first spoiler discussions toward

the later part of this episode. And yes, we will absolutely give a big spoiler warning when we head into those spoiler

“discussions so you can jump if you need to.”

So, with all of that said, if you don't know why we are suddenly very interested as to which POV the next Akatar book sub-plural are going to be, then please go listen to the call her Daddy interview. We will be here when you're done. I don't know.

I think we've all been speculating that for a long time, but we're getting kids speculating. We're just scourging the internet. You've got to put us up there. We're still being here. Next up, we at fantasy-fangirls are adults who say it all things about adult books, talking

about adult interviews, and other words, friends. This podcast is rated R. If Sarah J. Mass was asked, "Fuck Mary Kill," "Rise Rowan," and "Hunt," we are definitely

“going to be asking ourselves, "Fuck Mary Kill," "Rise Rowan," and "Hunt," something”

to be mindful of those little listening ears. Additionally, we are so excited to see you at our upcoming live show. We will be at the Neptune Theater in Seattle, Washington, on April 19th, where we are diving deep into the iconic animated movie, "How to Train Your Dragon," link below to get your tickets.

Last thing before we jump into this SJM interview episode, if you love fantasy-fangirls and want more events, more content, more community, and so much more, please check out fantasy-fang club. We have six membership tiers you can join, which includes access to our monthly community events, live Q&A's early access to ad-free episodes, a welcome gift, and our personal

favorite on days like today, access to our bump and discord that you bet has a specific channel devoted to this call-her daddy interview, and it is one of my favorite places to scourge right now. Join the party at fantasy-fangirls.com/fang club, and really, and truly, thank you so much for supporting us as we've turned this podcast into a dream come true, it is all because of

you. Now, it is time to dive deep into this call-her-daddy interview. Can we collect your flea scream at your ears of silence, not one, not two Akatar books,

but a third one also on the way.

What in the mass first culture and has been so good to us, the crystals, the mountainists, of the big Skymontana, has blessed us today. So yes, so we did get one social media post, like what was it six months ago, and Alex Coulong did ask, right, about what the deal was with that Akatar draft social post last year.

Was it a six-dash eight, was it an arrow, and after making a cheeky joke about how shitty her handwriting is, the girl, I feel you, I also have shitty handwriting and I don't you look at me like that because I just thought that was so funny, oh my gosh, so Sarah did confirm that it is indeed Akatar six with an arrow, meaning Akatar six, and beyond. Because these next three books are technically one big book, basically split into three volumes.

She specified it is not a trilogy, but four parts as three books, because it is literally physically impossible for book glue to hold that many pages together. I love how much she emphasized that she really doesn't want to restrain herself or be held

from Kingdom of Ash to cut five pages so it could even go to print, which that didn't even end up mattering, but that's a different story. Sarah emphasized that this story is one that she needs to tell, and she's going to let the story unfold in an organic way, and it took her a long time to write this book because there was a lot going on in her life that she needed to sort out.

She did not allude to what these specific things were, she's not entitled to have to do that with us. She didn't allude to what those were, said maybe one of these days, she will be open to sharing, but she already cried once on this podcast episode. She did say that she had to make sure she personally was in the right head space to tap

into that creative outlook and able to have the story come out. I do have two quick speculations that like I'm going to just boldly say these are speculations we do not have these confirmed, but I do wonder if part of it was the block after the aftermath of CC3, and how it was taken by the fandom. Yes, it was a sticky book, it gave us a lot of answers, no spoilers, but there were some

really really good chunks in there, and there were some things that felt a little disjointed to the fandom, but Sarah also mentions how there was stuff in her personal life that she alluded to maybe discussing one day, she also mentioned about how getting her media rights back to the Akatar world for the TV show was a whole big thing that maybe she talked about one day, there definitely seemed like there was more to the story there, and

I bet you anything that would take up a lot of creative brain space trying to fight for those rights. Exactly, I can only imagine how much is going on behind the scenes for SJM both in business and personal life, and if there was any big takeaway from this interview is that she's a person too, everybody, yes, yes, yes.

And after a while, she finally went to Big Skymontana and it all clicked and the story poured

out of her. She kept joking that there was like an energy vortex there, and she, you could see her just light up, and she was having fun with writing again.

“How many book retreats or book girly weekends are going to be booked in Big Skymontana?”

Oh, I know! I love it, oh my gosh, all right, so we know that the next chunk of the Akatar story is going to be coming out on October 27th, which is so much sooner than we thought it was going to be. By the time she got to the writing the end of part one, it was already 400 pages.

God dang, then parts 2 and 3 are going to be coming out January 12th, 2027th happy birthday to me! Oh my god, she admitted that those were absolutely long, hence the glue can't even bind in them altogether.

We'll talk about length in a second, considerable.

And part 4 currently is on deadline, but it is not done being written yet. She is focused entirely on getting parts 1 through 3 out, because she highlighted multiple times how there has not been a book in a while, and she feels that responsibility to the fandom to get something out to us. And I really do appreciate her saying something like that, yes, it's been a running joke

in the fandom about how we've all been, you know, like, oh my god, this silence, it's been so hard, because it has, like, this is a story that means so much to so many of us. And I really do appreciate that she's taking that into consideration while still making sure it's the best that it can possibly be, and I'm really, really proud of her for that.

“Now, of course, that said, what do you think part 4 could come out?”

Because considering she hasn't finished writing it yet, I'm thinking the earliest it could be would be 2028, especially because of how focused she is on parts 1 through 3 in the lead up to, I'm assuming January 12th or at least until those copy edits are done. But because this is something she's so locked in on, she sees this arc fully. I do believe that when she does it down to finish part 4, it is going to build a little

lot out of her, like she was saying, but she's on deadline for it right now. She is on deadline. So my 2028 is looking a little translucent right now actually, what do you think? I'm throwing all caution, all the rules I have been following about publishing out the window at this point.

Whoa. Yes. Whoa. She pretty much said it.

I know, but to hear you say it, you of all people are so amazing.

I think we will get part 4. So again, that is book 3, yes, this is going to be confusing for the fandom.

“I think we will get it by fall of 2027, because Sarah also emphasizes how the three volumes”

of this one big story, they're meant to be read together. So I think we will get all three roughly within the same year, like even an October 2027 release, which is wild because these past few days and much longer than that, I know we've been very insistent and vocal on setting expectations for the fandom. First of all, we do feel like that is just our responsibility to do that.

We do not want to hype up more than we already are, but Sarah herself says she's not going

She's doing something different because that is what her story demands. And I love that, and so I am now an optimist with all of this. So do we owe some eggs on our faces to the fandom? I think we do.

“I think we do technically, she announced two, but if the third one also comes out within”

the same year, then that's eggs at this point, I don't even care, I'm a happy camper. I will happily smash an egg on your face and you can smash one on mine.

I'm just gonna say you've better have the second half than that.

My favorite part, not my favorite part, but one of my favorite parts about this announcement and this drop that she just did on the fandom is that she's literally waging war against the publishing glue on my debris method, and I'm so proud of her, I'm so excited. She's traumatized after the king of a bad stuff and she's like, "No glue will stop me!"

I love that for you girl too, okay, so glue aside, let's talk about some of the deeds that we know from this next Akatar story that split into three volumes. There is a title, but she's not sharing it yet, and there is a cover that she's very excited about, but again, she's not sharing it yet. I get that.

Like she wants to build up the hype to October like, oh my god, now an October, how many emergency

“are you supposed to be corrupted into between now and October? Why don't you just speak that into hate? Just want to hate it?”

I don't care, I can't get through this one. I'm a recording tomorrow, it'll be so fun. Now, to be honest, a lot of people have asked us, like what's your speculation on titles, like, what do you think fantasy

fan girls, and I am not gonna lie? With this POV wink wink, that something's gonna be unexpected, we'll talk about more that more in a second.

I am less stumped, and I don't even want to start guessing. I like to defer to our friend Lauren of Butkuttle with the title speculation. I love her ideas, and I agree with her that it will be a court of blank blank. Kind of like how it was a court of silver flames. To really establish that this is a new story in its own way. So I do think that we will get something like that. I don't know if this is necessarily related to the title, but I definitely think we are getting a major

dust court plot line based on the teaser cover colors of the yet to be revealed cover. They are dust colors. They are sunset colors. And on the Bloom's very social post, the first book is Dark Gray with the Desk colors as the text.

“I think this book, this volume, which will be part one, will be mostly in the night court, and it is all the setup for the big second book.”

And with that book having the desk colors on the whole cover, and then like the dark gray text, I think the desk court is going to be the main plot line.

We can expect, especially for that book too. Well, speaking of this, let's talk about the length of these books because we know that they are long. They can't literally be bound by book glue. Have we mentioned that before? She's splitting them into three different volumes of four different parts. Looking at the Barnes & Noble website, part one, which releases an October, is listed at 352 pages. Which four reference book one of Akatar is 448 pages. Now, before you're like, "Oh no! It's a novela!"

The way she is talking, it is not a novella. I'm just going to go ahead and stamp that out for reference. Frost and Starlight, which is a novella, that is 261 pages. So bottom line, that book is way shorter. This one is going to be a normal novel page count. It's going to warm us up for the big goona in January. Well, speaking of which, let's talk about the one that we get on January 12. We get the big boy, which is right now listed at 928 pages.

This is for parts 2 and 3 of this four part story arc. This is not much shorter than Kingdom of Ash. Yes, it is of considerable length, I say. Yes, it is of considerable length. Now, because she has not finished part 4 yet, we don't know how long that one is looking. My guess is that part 4 will be closer to Book 1's length, so it'll be 2 books that are under/around that 400 page marker with the big beefy boy in the middle. See, I'm thinking that one's going to be closer to like the 550 600 page range.

Of course, there's like a misinformation theory situation. It'll all depend on obviously what happens between parts 1 through 3. But I love that part 2 and 3, I agree with you completely. I think those are going to be meaty, meaty, meaty, dusk court. Yes. And I have a feeling we're going to get part 1. It's going to end on some kind of cliffhanger that's going to make it so bad. Oh my gosh, I can't even imagine not having very long to wait. I know why my god, and it's the whole day's anyway, so at that time goes by extra fast.

And then we'll go straight into parts 3. And so we'll be living in the Akatar again for so long. I cannot wait. Oh my god, for Sarah's writing playlist at the moment, certain songs from the soundtrack to Rob Pattinson's Batman are speaking to her.

I can absolutely relate to this. And Sarah may I suggest getting a Bluetooth light show device. They're super cheap to create a concert in your living room. And then the kids are going to absolutely love soda pop, golden, all the songs again. It helps them get back into it. And yes, I'm absolutely speaking from personal experience.

Okay, so I want to talk about this Rob Pattinson Batman for a second because knowing that that is going to be closer to the vibe of this next installment.

I am curious because it's very grunge. It's emo. It's dark. And if we are getting a lane storyline, oh dear. Yes, a lane is not very dark. Literally in in the color she wears in the associated with the brains. I mean, not like I'm not talking about spring court. I'm just talking about the colors and less and blossoms and gardening and all of that. Yeah, but she's going through so much trauma right now. And the external appearance might still be that springy sprung this her inside world. It might feel very grunge, very dark, very emo in this way. Now, we also don't know that this is a lane. We'll get in more into this in a second. It could be a whole slew of other characters that we could pick and choose when they're going to start at a dark board.

Okay, so then let's just get straight into it actually the POV curve ball.

She said it was surprising to her and it offers insights to various things. What the fuck are you talking about this? We can't wait to continue dissecting this interview, but really quick, but let's quickly break for a word from our sponsors. So, the whole course is going to be for the best auto broadcast in the world. Let me know what you want to see and my best friends, Neil's friend. Everyone who wants to create a video with us or guests from our world with auto enthusiasts, people who are in a car handle, with other super experts.

So, really, let's just take a look at the video from the same car.

“So, now it's time to start. That's why it's all about what podcasts there are.”

So Sarah says that one of the surprising things that came out of her with this book was the POV, which what? I'm leaving more and more toward this being more epic, like Throne of Glass and even Chris and City with more character POVs, especially with how this will be three volumes. I've seen a lot of fans wondering, "Do we think one part will be one character?"

And then, like, you know, the second book will be somebody else. I personally don't believe that.

I don't think that each part or each volume will focus on specific POVs. It feels a little too rigid. And again, this is totally just my speculation, but just from the interview, they're felt like there is such a flow.

“I don't see they're having that POV structure in that same way. So, and I think we're going to get more than two love interest POVs, like we got in silver flames.”

You know, that was Nessa and Cassian. I think that this will be probably, like, at least four POVs. Oh, at least, yeah. Yeah. I think we're both in agreement that one of the POVs definitely has to be Elaine Altra as real as well. Are we both in agreement on that? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I was a product once in that interview, which was weird.

It's except for Chris and City reference, which is crazy. Like, it's crazy how little he was brought up. I do think that one of the big surprises might be that Nessa is actually a bigger POV than she originally thought she was going to be. Well, and that brings me back to the dust court. Yeah. As far as my theory brain is concerned, that is primarily Nessa's storyline, but still the fact that Sarah was surprised by the POV we're getting. I definitely agree. We will begin Elaine, but I don't consider that. It's a prize.

“Tamlin, we can cross off, which we get too soon. I think we'll get some Lucien. Maybe a little bit more of him than anticipated, especially with the co-stay plot and the band of exiles plot.”

And that's his curse and all of that. Oh, my gosh, we're back to set up a pine tree. Yes, my son of a pine tree. I forgot about the Vasa situation with him and possibly her as a love interest. Oh, my god. Okay, I'm going to throw out another one more. That would definitely be a surprise because originally she had more in novella territory, but let's be real. She could have changed her mind or it could have just flowed naturally. Absolutely. Well, and she teased about Morris power of truth and potentially exploring that more, which yes, please.

I'm also going to throw out eras, especially if we do get more in a lot more of the story, I could absolutely see eras. I feel like he just kind of, he has to come along with her.

Own healing journey. Yes, I could definitely see more eras as well. You mentioned Lucien. I absolutely think he's going to be one. I hope I want to be Lucien's POV. I want to be in his mind. Oh, remember with Pharaoh? Yes, the accident was in his mind and it was only just that night. Oh, my gosh. I was up with Ruth last night at like one in the morning, and I listened to that. I jotted it down real quick. Because he has his whole, just men to healing to do. He has been thrust into this mating bond with Elaine, just as much as she has.

And he has a dad that he doesn't know is his dad, and he's actually probably the air of the Sun Court. Not the Sun Court to the date court. I'm so sorry. Did we forget about that? Yes, absolutely.

So I hope we get more of Lucien's POV because I also feel like a lot of the fandom is very focused on Asriel and Elaine.

And I would love to be opened up to Lucien and what his story is. Whether him and Elaine end up together or not, we'll get into that later. But I love the idea of exploring him. I definitely could see Gwen being a POV or Emory, especially if you get a more centered storyline.

“I think what you're saying with four POVs, I'm going to actually expand it.”

I think we're going to get closer to like Kingdom of Bastile where it's like eight. And I hope I hope so. I know I've actually kind of been against the multiple POVs, which isn't the past. And I do think that there were elements in Crescent City where it got confusing and it was a little too fast for a little bit whiplashy. But for like Kingdom of Bastile, we're just coming off of our top fan guys. That was perfectly done because it was like every single POV felt like it was in an arc.

And I could see us leaning back more into that style. That is exactly what I was going to say too. It might have a recent see bias, but I loved that from our throne of glass reread and our coverage that we just finished up. I would love character POVs like that, and it would give Sarah more opportunity to explore more storylines, character dynamics, and world building. That was something that we kept coming back to when we were finishing up our avatar deep dive was wholly moly.

There are a lot of loose ends.

And not even just loose ends, but like mass-first connections that are extremely clear and story arcs that are like we still have a lot more to explore here.

But it's all over the, if you're seeing my hands right now, it's like all over the map literally the map of the world.

“And so just like how in the throne of glass books, everybody's everywhere and you have to have those different character POVs to move the story along.”

And I love that, and I want her to embrace that for this next avatar story that we're getting. I agree completely. I'm going to throw out another option. I think Fera could actually be a POV again. We'll get more into what S.J.M said about Fera's pregnancy and how she described that just because a woman has a child and a family doesn't suddenly make her story weak. It that felt really important and like something she's thought about quite a bit.

So I said absolutely see us getting Fera in her mother era. And I just, oh my god, thinking about Nix and Reese is a dad. I give me more of Nix. And then also Cassian and Asriel in their uncle era seeing them interact with Nix and maybe there's some mystery around Nix getting powers and what those powers might look like. I think the name is Jack Jack.

Oh, my god. Yeah. No, we're actually. Cause I'm so happy right now. No, I'm so on the money. Like I absolutely see Fera and Reese. Maybe not being storyline A, but B your C. And I love the idea of seeing them again. Oh, and being in their mind.

I miss Fera. God, I love her. One person we don't think it will be.

“And honestly, who we don't think this next story will focus on at all is Tamlin.”

After the conflict that Sarah feels about whether to give Tamlin a redemption arc and what would have to go into it. We did not get the impression she is exploring him a whole lot at all. Well, to quote her, she said, if I were to ever write more about Tamlin, that to me right there says she has not written more about. And that wasn't in like a sneaky way or anything. That was just like from the heart.

Yeah, it seems like at least. Yeah, and honestly, I'm good with it. I think I don't want to speak for both of us here. But if he is going to keep appearing in the story, he needs to have that time to work on himself and do the hard reflections. And it doesn't seem like the author herself has the patience or quite frankly the interest to go through all of that with Tamlin. I'm okay with that.

And if he's going to be a bigger character in the story again, then absolutely let's get a redemption arc that fits his character and does not excuse his past behavior.

And Sarah recognizes how fine a line he should have to balance.

And I just did not get the vibe that she has sunk her teeth into that. And the story itself, it is so much bigger than him. She's just done with him. She wants to keep going on moving on, yeah. Well, and to be quite honest, stepping out of Nicole the deep diver and Nicole the character analyzers shoes and just stepping fully into Nicole the person.

I was really relieved hearing that. She mentions her friends who have talked to her about abusive relationships. They've had who have left partners that remind them of Tamlin. And they were able to heal through that experience because of Ms. and Fury. She asked them point blank, like if it would feel like a betrayal to have a redemption arc for Tamlin because of how much

His favorite journey helped them heal from their own past and she mentioned how countless readers have said this to her too.

“Without getting into it, because honestly, we touched on it in Mr. Fury, so it doesn't really need to be opened up fully again.”

It was very difficult for me to analyze Tamlin as someone who he reminded me of my abuser, fully. And I didn't recognize until she said the reason I didn't want his redemption arc is because it would feel like a betrayal for the healing that I went through with Phara. And don't keep me wrong. I'm very excited to see other characters and other arcs. And I hope Tamlin figures his shit out. I mean, the last time we saw him, he was roaming around the spring court.

I do have a lot of feelings about how he has been portrayed in the last few books. Yeah, he's going to keep being in these books. He's giving him a redemption arc or just take him off the board. For me, for some sake, he's not ruling the spring court. He's so much so that Baron is thinking about swooping in and taking over because he's just walking around this man bear pig, not really. He's just throwing himself a pity party constantly.

And these political repercussions and those dynamics, those really interest me.

“I would be interested in seeing that in a future arc at our book, but do I need a character in depth redemption from him?”

No, I don't. If he has it, great, but I don't want to see it as a reader. I don't want to see it. And that's fair. And that's absolutely fair. Something that Sarah said that stood out to me in relation to her current projects is that I was really surprised to hear she does not have maps or extensive notes or a spreadsheet on this universe. And specifically, she doesn't have any, this like an organized matter, at least it sounds like about the crossovers that she has created between these three series.

I was getting stressed out just hearing. I was like, where is Sierra of unhinged book talk? [laughter]

Digitalyzed map of Charlie from Sunshine, whatever it's called. It's not, it's always, not that you're fellow tells me I'm all about that.

But like, hearing that, I was like, I agree with you. I was sweating. Like, I'm so happy it works for her. I cannot personally fathom that. No, Sarah said that yes, of course she does have her notebooks, but the overarching vision is all in her head. And I agree with Alex, I would love to live in Sarah's head for a day.

“I don't think she gives herself enough credit. She's like, no, it's just about like, what's for dinner and cheetos?”

And it's like, no ma'am, I want to live in your head. I want to go experience what you experience with these world things characters, all of this. Yes. My point about this right now, though, is that Sarah gave an example that recently with what she's working on, so I'm going to assume that's part four, but we don't have confirmation. She said that it felt like the cosmic force was at work. And it was like her subconscious led her down this path, and all of the sudden things aligned perfectly, where it worked out on a supernatural level. She was like, to the point where she stood up out of her chair was like, oh my god, that didn't come from me.

And Sarah, you know, she was like joking about how she has a lot of crystals, and she's just like, oh, this worked out on the supernatural level. So I'm really excited to see what this moment was. My gut is like, it has to be around the desk court, whether it's something I'm going to talk about later in the past.

I just feel like I definitely think it's the best first thing.

It definitely has to be a mass first thing, and I just, I feel it in my bones, but it's got to be something around the desk court. And maybe even the Archer on sisters as a whole, like, oh my god. Oh my god, yes, yes. So we've had a lot of people ask us in the internet at large if they should read both thrown of glass and crescent city series before acatarsic drops on October 27. And while we don't know for sure, based off of what we know from at least crescent city, I'm going to assume yes. These three series all exist in the same universe, and in these later books, there are crossovers, some way more subtle than others.

And it's just, first of all, really cool to experience this as a reader and it is fun. But yes, based off of this interview with some of her mass first comments and this example about how the stars align,

Now does that make it required reading?

I mean, quite frankly, I don't think it's fair to say yes, that you absolutely 1,000 percent must read 11 other books before touching acatarsic.

Like, if you don't, that's your choice and that's okay. There might be some important details and connections that are made in other books specifically in the crescent city world that come to fruition in acatarsic. And it might feel like there's some thoughts missing or that some things might be confusing. So if you want that full picture, yes, please please please do that reading. Or listen to fantasy fan girls in our future content.

Well, I was going to, do you want to go ahead and get into it? No, you don't have to keep saying this and then I'll plug in the rest of it. You will say like, let's hear a bit by a source sources because we are the people who want every single aspect of the picture. I want to know each and every single brush stroke that goes into this massive mass first canvas. And in that case, yes, I do recommend reading all of the books, especially crescent city.

“My god, but like, again, I don't think it's fair to say you have to absolutely read it.”

Because what if crescent city doesn't melt with you and exactly do you want to force yourself through 3,000 pages? Maybe not. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Like reading is fun first and foremost. So if you do not find the reading enjoyable, there are plenty of other sources.

Yes, including us who you will be able to rely on for as much of a full acatarsic experience as possible. Again, this is entirely our own speculation and we will talk a lot more about this in the coming months, which let's talk about that. We've gotten a lot of ffg related questions around the coverage of acatarsics and seven and eventually eight. So first and foremost, yes, we will absolutely deep dive these books, full stop. Yes, just expect October to march to be just acatars city. Absolutely, acatars city.

For those of you who haven't read the map, we're just going to pretend that my book launches somewhere in there in March as well. And I'm just going to look at that, that scheduling later. Or it's just going to look at that later. [laughter] I love the chosen. I love you dearly.

Now, if reading that much in prep for acatarsic stresses, you had a little, we've got you covered.

“We are going to be releasing episodes about everything you need to know before the next acatars book.”

Specifically, everything you need to know from the mass first, especially Crescent City.

So if you don't want to reread that series, or if you don't want to read that series, then you don't mind some spoilers from the Crescent City universe. But above all, we've got you covered. We will also be releasing recaps, reread schedules, and so much more in the lead up to this huge release releases back to back. And a friendly reminder, we have 11 months worth of acatars deep dive episodes and four thrown of glass fan guides ready for you right now to jump into. Link to those is in the show notes.

Yes, there is so much mass first content to start prepping. If you're just getting started with Roan of Glass, then our fan guide episodes are fantastic for you because they're only spoilers kind of like throughout the whole series. So you can kind of look into all of that there. Oh my gosh, hundreds of hours of acatars. So much, I'm just so excited.

So excited. All right. Let's get into some general reactions or some generalness around the interview. Because I was actually really surprised with how much we've learned about Sarah as a human versus the grittling questions that we saw in the teasers leading up to the interview.

“I assumed it was going to be a, where is this person?”

What is this person doing for like an hour? But I loved, loved getting to see the behind-the-scenes Sarah. Seeing how the different FMCs she's written have influenced her and her journey both directly and indirectly. I know something that really spoke to us both was how she now defined success and how it's no longer just about her books and the success she's had in the publishing world. But now it's instead about how happy she Sarah is.

It came up a few times in the interview about how she's bringing joy into her life. Like even on her writing desk and how she has a reboot with the sunglasses on it because it brings her joy. And I could feel the happiness radiating off of her and I bet you anything, the reason that she's able to come back in this manner is because she has been silent for so long. And doing her own work, which I know we're going to keep on talking about here, yeah. Really quickly I want to note the libubu because it has been speculated previously that there are Easter eggs on her desk that hit to whatever book she's next writing.

And I'm like how does the sunglasses libubu work into this? And I'm like, oh, Doug has he going back to the summer court. He's going to fix it. I'm leaning towards day court. I'm leaning towards the day court and then that could hint at the Lucian story line with Helion and all that kind of stuff.

It's always with Cassie.

“I'm going to say at the end of the day going back to this how she defines success.”

It is about the people around her friends and her family.

They love her not her successes. And how they would care for her just as much as if she was a book author versus if she was a DJ florist marine biologist. I love that and she doesn't have to have her drive and her motivation tied to her success, which then leads to that fear of what happens if I lose it. And oh my god as someone who is very driven by the external this meant more to me than I could ever explain.

“Like when her in Alex were talking about when you get something you've always wanted and then suddenly it's the fear of losing it.”

That consumes you completely like oh my god welcome to every single one of my therapy sessions ever like that's literally what I talk about all the time. And exactly you and I both looked at each other during this whole part because we relate so much in our own way with fantasy fan girls. We love love love what we do with our whole hearts and we are so incredibly blessed to get to do what we love every single day of work and fantasy fan girls has taken on a life of its own. And that can feel very difficult to balance and for a self worth to not be tied to how successful FFG is.

There's always a sense of more and more and wanting to be worthy of the success and of this community's trust and attention.

And that means we can pigeonhole ourselves sometimes where the joy of what we are doing gets lost in the sauce of the everyday where we're just getting the shit done. Where fear of not being enough can sneak up into the driver's seat and take over before we even realize it. And we always are reminding ourselves to take a moment and enjoy this journey to celebrate how far we've come. And all the while reminding ourselves that we are Lexi and Nicole outside of FFG and we can be happy because of it and we deserve to be happy outside of it too.

And that just spoke so much to both of us pivoting slightly one of the things I loved hearing the story behind was her getting published for the first time.

She started writing through on glass when she was 16 she didn't get a published until she was 26. She had her parents and her life saying don't do it like it takes so it takes a lot to get published and yeah and how she got rejected by all the agents except for one and all the publishers except for one. And then she is now yes well and when she was waiting to get to have thrown a glass get picked up she wrote Akatar and Akamath. Yeah like if she's just like I didn't have anything to do and I just did but I loved which is writing she's like I didn't have a job but like I was just always waiting to get back from these agents and publishers and it was always for actions but I just kept writing.

It was just such a good reminder that things can take their time and that's okay and just because one door closes it doesn't mean that suddenly every door is closed and I don't know that just that was really beautiful. I'm really happy she talked about that. I'm so glad we have that as a recording so I can play that back for you some more. I was actually pretty surprised to learn how much of a cancer SJM is which means that she lets the story and the characters really guide the way. I was as well she mentioned that when she was writing Akatar book one she was only writing as far as she could see she called it headlight writing where she literally was only writing as far as the headlights would show her.

“And she literally did not have reasonable and just look up, sorry what?”

I will give her this like you can tell how much she did in editing where when she went back after probably finishing under the mountain and she added the dreams and how the shadow was watching her and you know how when he walked into the story she was like who are you? Just like all of us like I'm really impressed with how much she went back and added in as little Easter eggs but I do love how she mentioned like crescent city was a passion project for her to just like curse and say sh*t and fuck and all that kind of stuff during and she then was like actually way I kind of want to publish this and then look at what it's become now in the mass first I'm just I'm so impressed with how much her pantsing does seem like plotting.

Well, that is the power of editing right that is the power of I could not believe that either that was like a jaw drop a moment because yeah, what she was writing it she's like I wasn't expecting like suddenly like this most beautiful man to come through the smoke and it's like oh who are you who are you and again like this is the early days of when she first drafted Akatar and she's just having fun writing and just kind of seeing where things went and I just love that I love the idea of characters and stories taking you on a journey.

I don't have that love of I will say this though. I wonder if that same pants or mentality was also in thrown a glass because no spoilers but like as we were doing our fan guide episodes we were like holy shit. There's so much in the earlier books that comes to fruition later and that didn't seem very fancy. Well, and that was actually another thing that they were talking about in the interview was Sarah was really stressing how long she has been with these characters. She's like you all I've had a lot of time to be with these characters and in these worlds and all these things like again I can only imagine how packed her brain is with all of this and so even though she did start writing throwing a glass when she was 16 she didn't have rewriting it quite a bit.

Which actually I found out that she originally had thrown a glass like almost double the word count like it was a much longer book and really quick pulling back the curtain on the publishing industry when you are a debut author having a long book especially a long fantasy book is a very easy way of getting pushed aside to the next person a lot of publishers want to take a lower risk which means a financially lower risk which also means a lower paid count.

“And this is speaking very broadly obviously there's many many many stipulations and differences and all that kind of exceptions and exception.”

But what she did is she took throw in a glass and slashed it in half and basically re-wrote book one so it was way way way shorter and it became what it was and that is so impressive. I love that she mentioned she wrote the first few drops on floppy disks. There's a word I haven't heard in a long time. I know the ultimate safe icon for all you children you don't know. My god it's floppy disk taking a hard left pivot one of the things that she talks about with what's a box she's been put in as a writer as a female writer in fantasy specifically and she discussed how oh I'm going to get heated.

She discussed how a lot of people think that what she writes is smart and at the end of the day that's not when her fans come up to her and talk to her about.

They're not like oh my god that's seen in the dining room I got off so hard with it no like sex is always tied to the plot with these books.

Yeah, flexing I played that game during silver flames like is this a plot or is this not to which we were actually very surprised most of us plot like yes until kind of like there was like just like one quick little stretch where I was like okay now they're just having fun right now. But everything else was for the plot. Well, then like going to chapter 55 like that was definitely for the plot and like all of the definitely for the blocks are gone and it's like at the end of the day when it comes to a woman writing just period but specifically writing in fantasies the second you tap into sex.

It's suddenly dismisses the rest of the work because it's suddenly all about sex. And as Sergei mass puts it it suddenly devalues the work when it's like what the fuck sex is a huge part of the human experience.

It's like we are all existence because of sex.

Yes, thank you. The birds in the bees. Has anyone told us whether or not. I hope you've got that talk if you're listening to this already. But people roll their eyes so often at the things that bring women joy which for a lot of us who this is definitely a primarily driven women demographic when it comes to.

Aki-tara and fourth wing and all of these books that Lexi and I have covered specifically on the show.

She's infuriated that the second it brings a woman joy.

It's dismissed and oh my god.

“I remember Rebecca Yaros had something very similar and I'm just like I'm so happy.”

We have these powerhouse women in the fantasy genre. I'm not even going to call it romanticity because like these books are fantasy. Like they are fantasy romantasy is a sub genre of fantasy which means they are fantasy. And I love that we have these powerhouse writer women who are saying this and I'm just like say it louder for the people in the back. Thank you so much and I know they're one of many but they do have very large platforms and it's nice to have them be so vocal about this.

Yes, exactly like all of this right here everything you're saying Nicole. Yes, these books have sex but they are so much bigger than those literally few pages or chapters.

“Like yes, somebody did the math I think it was fourth wing or something like that and it was like literally 5% of the books or something like that stupid stupid little.”

And I'll even say too we've experienced this with fantasy fan girls some people think all we do is just talk about somebody books into a microphone. When that is such a tiny fraction of what these books and what our conversations are all about and it's everything else around the sex that makes it so empowering.

It is minimizing women and our joy and what we think matters just because there's some sex.

“And God forbid what is it Rebecca said Rebecca R. said God forbid a woman having orgasm on the page and then suddenly a man is like that's a sport like you're talking about.”

And they're you what double standard makes me want to pull my hair out because you bet your booty there is sex and game of thrones I have right there is sex and game of thrones. But there's no one no one in the right mind would categorize it as remain to see how the fuck is thrown of glass different in simplest terms because it's written by woman.

I feel your rage to SJM and this is a topic we will always continue shouting from the rooftops.

Literally I can't wait to call out what fourth wing is really about to an entire arena at an MBA game because this dismissal that it's just smut is point blank wrong. Well literally will we were at the abs game. The avalanche game for fourth wing we were in the crowd and we were like, way up in the nose please and people were talking about like around us.

“Oh like you know I think my girlfriend wrote it it's kind of smuddy and Lexi and I both went well.”

I want to give them major gold stars because they were very susceptible to listening to us and even a few of them wrote it down and like we're like I want to check this out.

Yeah they're like they're like there's dragons and war they're like cool you agree and it's just a standard that it's just like oh well just because she finds a man hot suddenly it's smut and it's like. And like I just love how Sarah defense the genre and what these stories are truly about female empowerment self discovery human real connection and impact and just. Thank you for sharing for having that conversation during that call her daddy podcast because that is something that is really near and dear to a lot of us where we obviously have a lot of feelings about it.

“I'll even expand as Sarah did where it's like she also really wants to talk about the female real experience like if you're on your way to more door and you get your period.”

What happens are you just walking through the cramps are you bleeding out with go on just crawling right next to you like what are you doing and I'm and again no spoilers but it really brought to light like oh those scenes and thrown a glass like immediately I know a lot of us thought of that and it's like I'm so grateful she's talking about those experiences because. Yeah where do you women go to the bathroom where do you you get pads or do you get pads or do you just bleed out what do you do or in.

I could start from a very very painful and that was something that they were going to have to experience that nest of them experienced on her own and like when I read that I was like oh my god I never would have thought about that. So we also got a non update on the TV show for Akatar Sarah has gotten her media rights back for everything and she shares that her focus right now is on her books. She wants to have a hand in the film adaptation and she wants to make sure it's right and represented well she sees these film adaptations as extensions of her world and she wants to be in charge of it.

She loves TV and movies and wants to be part of the process have her hands in it and yes have control over how this world will come to life off the pages and outside of her head. She does not want the adaptations to be someone else's take on her world's characters and stories and I'll be honest that is my understanding of what happens with film adaptations. And she wants her to want to be as involved as she is insisting on being and yes have been rumors that she is difficult to work with but she's explaining exactly why right here.

I'm not surprised that it's just not a focus these days right now she's she's excited about her books again right. I'm not gonna throw out is like because we've talked to a few other authors who are getting film film adaptations whether it's TV or movie and some of them are wanting a little bit of their toe in it some of them are wanting full hands off and then they're Sarah here who's like I want every single aspect and I want to highlight that like I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

And yet I do think that what she's saying here is very commendable with this is an extension of her work. I know you and I have talked about when it comes especially to the forthming adaptation it's like it is a completely different version of the work and when you and I do analyze it we want to look at it as both an adaptation and also a standalone work on its own exactly and I think going into different adaptations like a graphic novel like a TV show like.

That's not how she views it she views it as a one to one basically and I'm curious how that will turn out if it ever does because we are so used to the other version of it.

Exactly and Sarah did also mention how music would be a huge part of it and she's okay with any film adaptations taking however long it takes. Like for instance she has not come across anyone who she feels would be right for Reese and she doesn't want to force anything she's like I don't want to choose someone who does not feel right to me. So friends I think that for the time being we can all shelf any hope left for a film adaptation.

“Personally I think it's great for her that she's focusing on her books and she clearly has extremely high expectations for what an adaptation would look like.”

I still vote for a throne of class TV series above all else because I think it'd be bigger than game of thrones maybe someday when slash if Sarah is ready to fully dive into the film side of bringing story to life but I'm not going to hold my breath and that's okay.

I agree completely one to one agree.

I am really proud of her forgetting her rights back and I know I mentioned this when you're watching it it was like this sounds very Taylor Swift getting her catalog back coded the way she was talking and the way she said maybe someday I'll dive more into this it sounds like it was. Quite a saga that was getting her rights back for this and I also will say when Akatar was bought by Hulu it was not Akatar. I can only imagine the price tag on that right right now for either Akatar thrown a glass or even crescent city although I doubt we're going to see crescent city before we see either Akatar or thrown a glass mainly because it would also be way more expensive.

I also do love that at the end of the day she's keeping everything close to her chest and very much in her control again I there is no right way to do it and that is one of the reasons we all fell in love with her work in the first place so I'm excited to see what happens and I'm not. So before we get into Akatar book specific discussions let's quickly address one of Alex's questions quote we've all seen the now deleted. Twilight of the gods Pinterest board what's going on there so for our listeners who are like what the heck is this Pinterest board the backstory is back in 2015.

S. Jam confirmed she had to work in progress as one was crescent city and the other was Twilight of the gods and her today interview at the start of 2024 that was the last interview she did before this one here with call her daddy. It was even like minuscule that was a yes you will interview a two hour almost interview but back during that interview in 2024 Sarah said quote there's one book that I'm going to be writing after this next Akatar book that I'm very excited about I'm not going to say what world it's in I'm not going to say anything she did go on to say that it is a story that's been brewing in the back of my mind for a long time.

“I think it's going to be very emotional book for me to write just in terms of the world I'll be writing in the characters that might pop up.”

So friends, the now deleted Pinterest board has led some people to think that all three worlds Akatar are crescent city and throw in a glass will all be coming together in a massive crossover of some kind in this you know like Twilight of the gods. But according to Sarah now she answered Alex's question that Twilight of the gods was a story that was just like crescent city aka a fun project for her. She said she always has manuscripts and other stories in her head she has three or four full books for other series on her computer and she doesn't know if it'll ever see the light of day sometimes she shares sometimes she doesn't.

I love that when she's done with her crazy writing slash editing days she just goes to write more.

“So my takeaway is we can shelf this concept at least for the time being as she continues focusing on this story with Akatar and for us not to put too much into the Twilight of the gods Pinterest board specifically.”

Yes, we can be rest assured that she has a lot of story ideas but quite frankly that's just not relevant right now and I again I just love that this is her way to relax and have fun.

Yes, basically she told us all we're thinking too much into this.

Just set up multiple times. So spoilers in this section for throwing a glass or crescent city we are only talking about Akatar let's start off with one question that we weren't really expecting but it was so emotionally felt by the internet and this community. I think the discourse around fairies pregnancy her loss of autonomy with the choices that res made and her death more and more and more.

But oh my god to have this immediate look into her mind in her experience what a deeper perspective we got the fact that she mentioned how it really stuck with her that her son and her should be dead.

“If it was a hundred years ago because of her birthday experience I mean looking at faira wow what I know we're going to get all into it but that is something that really stuck with me where it's like of course she wrote it the way that she did.”

I cried a lot during this part when Sarah really talked in the real raw scary experience of pregnancy and giving birth.

I hated being pregnant too I love my children but I too lived in this constant state of fear and probably didn't help that was right around COVID times too.

But truly there can be such a culture of fear around new mothers because yes it is scary and we all just want to do what's right for the baby but it translates to this fear of what we're supposed to eat and how much anything we put in our body including medicine. And enough of this cutting out that constantly monitoring for kicks and always playing through your head is the baby inside of me okay and there's this responsibility that you have to make sure it's okay when you already are feeling so out of control.

And this is when I started to lose myself because I didn't feel like I mattered anymore and it was all about the baby and again I love my babies so much but I lost myself when I was pregnant because it wasn't me anymore and I had a traumatic labor and delivery with my son.

“I'm very very traumatic and we would both be dead too if it wasn't from modern medicine and that was something to that.”

I would think about oh god that thought about that so much in the early days about how we would be dead and it is of something that sticks with you definitely and there's one nurse for me too which also I really hope that intern heard this interview. So much that she had but I had one nurse who truly listened to me when I was going through that really is very experienced who helped me through the panic that nothing is going according to plan and I'm a tape a person I mean my plans to and she was in my corner to help me through how terrifying it was and that individual sticks with you forever and I just oh my gosh I just I felt hugged through all of when she was talking about that because I just I needed to hear that as a mother who has experienced similar things yeah.

I don't feel like she said this outright but I'm going to I'm going to throw out the subtext is I feel like favor was the pregnancy or the pregnant mom she wanted to be.

But was glowing she was happy regardless of what was happening at least all the things that she knew about and she was just overjoyed to be bringing a life into this world. And while Reese was the fear that Sarah J. Mass said she had around having another kid or that she was actually having it she channeled a lot of that fear into Reese and as she mentioned later he's allowed to make bad decisions. They got stressed here and learn from it. I know a lot of people when we were covering silver flames were like why are you excusing Reese but you're not excusing Tamland this is why he's learning from it and he's actively changing it yes he's 500 years old but as Sarah J. Mass said he's never had a mate he's never been you know married he's never been in the situation he's ever had a pregnant wife before he made a bad call from a place of love but he reflected and that's another thing I think we're going to see in

back at our sex like the way that she described it I don't know what felt like she was maybe we're not going to be in Reese's POV but I definitely feel like we're going to see some kind of aftermath of their relationship as a result of this.

“And I think to for us during silver flames was we admit we didn't get a whole lot of how he did learn from it because again it wasn't their story that we were all focusing on.”

But I do think and I'll say this to I hope that in the next book we do get to see that I'm not going to call it a redemption arc because I don't think it was like quite that intense, but I don't know how it's a lesson learned arc that's a good way of putting yes a lesson learned arc right and I think that it will help us see Reese he's I say human but you all know what I mean that and also Sarah was saying like yes he did make a really bad choice moving to. The fact that she went through such a traumatic birth and felt like she had no control over her body it put a lot into the light when it came to a story line that a lot of people felt like.

It's just another pregnancy trope but I love that she didn't apologize for putting it in I really love that she didn't do that in fact I love the fact that you know we do attach pregnancy tropes to something where it's like. But the fact that she said. When a woman becomes a mom it's not a weakness and I just think that's all something we do know very very true to our heart. But the fact that she said that when she became a mom it was when she learned the most it was when she became the most who she is rooted she stood up to us for herself more than she ever had before.

As a mom thank you and yes I was crying and nodding along to all of this part because it's true it's absolutely true and I fundamentally changed when I became a mom.

So we were able to talk about it in a grant in my any a gram totally changed. Yeah that's obviously like I fundamentally changed and while I definitely still work through a lot of self doubt and a lot of things I am very proud of the person who I changed into and the person who I want to be for my kids and for myself and for my family and yeah it's again that was just a part that really really spoke to me and I have actually always appreciated.

“This journey and it's even in Frost and Starlight when she was realizing that she wanted to be a mother like we really defended all of this and this right here.”

And I'm excited for what's going to be next for her and Reece and Little mix in the next book installment. I absolutely think her freeze and mix is going to be a storyline like I was saying earlier not plot A but maybe plot B or C and I really hope so because yes they're epic storyline around. The war it's over but they are still high lord and lady and they still have issues there are still parents that what does that day to day look like like Sarah was saying and again I just keep going back to how much you feel like she's thought about this in the interview and something she said quote there are things from that meaning the pregnancy that will play out and that made my ears perk up as to who what are we going to see.

I can't wait to see Reese and dad mode essentially now that he's learned his lesson from the big mistake he made in silver flames okay so this is actually total speculation but I'm going to take a hard pit it do you think we could see if Nesta pregnancy in these books there was actually there was no conversation that even hinted to that so this is absolutely a crack theory what do you think no. I can't see it being a decision that they make kind of like Reese and Thera in frost and starlight like maybe toward the end but I feel like Nesta has a lot more that she personally has to achieve for herself and she's excited about this long life that they have now and I don't like Thera because of the war and because of restying that is where she really felt this need to do it now kind of healing and I don't think that Nesta has had that same experience you know like they have their own trauma but you know what I mean.

“And so I think that again it'll be focusing more on like the dusk court cough cough cough before they truly settle down and start a family I agree I agree I just had to throw it out there just I don't know.”

Okay speaking of Nesta when it came to writing silver flames Sarah Jane asked really opened up about her experience with it and she mentioned how she's channeled herself and her own experiences into her writing before specifically around like era fire.

And a quarter-missing fury but silver flames was the first time she really understood consciously oh this is me and this is what I'm going through I am going through it with this character actively.

“She talks about how she was in copy editing for Kingdom of Ash while pumping getting breast milk on pages recovering from a sea section from hell in a complete frenzy.”

She started having this overwhelming sensation that's something awful was going to happen all of her success would implode the other she would drop I mean you and I have had these guys. She's curious like we never talked of fear all the time like we were saying earlier about the success and fear driving and I can only imagine being newly postpartum recovering from a very traumatic birth. Juggling three book releases including Kingdom of Ash which is the end of an epic series and all the pressure that is just being Sarah J Mass and then to get these panic attacks and fall into this low point it would be so so difficult.

Well she mentioned how this dark place got to a point where she was starting to scare herself and that is when she realized I need to go to therapy because she looked at her son and she said I want to be here for him. I want to fight for him and all that Nesta went through in a quarter of silver flames was Sarah channeling her own energy her own journey into that therapeutic moment with Nesta through her own therapy journey as well.

And as she said Nesta was in a hole as jam was in a hole and quote we dug our way out of it together.

Oh God that's so beautiful at the end of the book Nesta's not healed by any means she still a work in progress just as we all are but I love how she also highlighted that it's not just Josh or Cassian that was like the healing saving grace it was also the friends that she made along the way with Gwen and Emory and that is a direct process of healing.

Not our success or not fantasy fan girls and that that has been a concept that has been just so beautiful for us to experience. This was another part of the interview that had me crying. I don't cry during things like the world I was just crying in the center of you but was there wonder like a shout to my husband because we were over at my house he was on both rude duty and also bringing us cookies and refilling our champagne he brought us time food.

“And then he brought Lexia box to do she.”

Silver flames and Nessa's journey are deeply personal to me. I've been very vocal about that. Our deep dive of that book was like my own therapy and when Sarah described that she had her own scene hiking and crying at a lake and then she envisioned Nessa there too that scene is one of the most impactful scenes that I have ever read. When we were covering the lake scene for our podcast episode we actually had to pause recording because I needed a little bit I needed to collect myself I needed to work through some emotions and all of that and it was a lot there were a lot of tears it was very emotional and again very deeply personal and to hear Sarah's journey through all of this it makes me want to cry all over again because I feel it so much too and to be honest I've recently really been struggling with my mental health to the point where this past December.

I broke I felt worthless and I had regular panic attacks and the people close to me including Nicole were very genuinely concerned and I started this year like in twenty twenty six just tell you myself I have to dig myself out of this whole for my kids for myself and for this life I want to live but I don't know how and this is not who I want to be or who I know I can be and I am actively working on myself with the help of therapy now and exciting medication and communication with my support system.

So I can be present and happy and someone who I am really proud of and again this just really hit close to home for me when Sarah brought up mental health journeys and the meaning of success and happiness in this interview.

Thank you so much for supporting us here at fantasy fan girls we will get right back to the episode after a quick word from our sponsors.

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I'm going to analyze the shit out of her body. She took a deep breath and she darted her eyes away, which I've done quite a bit of research on what that looks like. And as someone who's done researching in my background that I've done when someone typically darts their eyes away, it's because they want to be either they're thinking through very carefully how they want to answer and so I'm assuming that she's thinking very carefully how to answer this question. And she says how Elaine has her own trauma and shit that she's going through.

I mean, yeah, she was transformed into a whole new body with a whole new life expectancy and then suddenly surprise you're basically forcibly married to someone who is involved in sending you into the culture and portraying her.

Like, I, Lucien, I love Lucien. I love Lucien so much. She was working with Tamil because he thought that that was what was right.

And Tamil and Lucien are definitely guilty of sending Nesta and Elaine into the culture and because of what they did with ianthe and hibern and all of those things. Well, even Lucien says to Ferra at one point, I didn't know I was the villain in your story.

“And I think that line really says a lot and I think that's going to be a bit of a common theme as we do start exploring Elaine.”

Well, and I think that's going to be a common theme as we start exploring Lucien more. And he's going to have to work through his own, am I the villain? Like, is he going to be resentful? Is he going to be angry that this is the direction his life took? Is he going to throw himself a pity party like we just genuinely don't know and I hope we get to find that out. So going back to Elaine and the mating bond, what does it look like to explore the concept of quote free will in a mating bond and what does that look like?

With Ferra in Nesta, nature picked right and then surgery mass immediately shut her lips. And Alex changed the subject, which as you and I know as you were.

The second or interview he has that kind of body language where it's like, oh, shit, I shouldn't have said something.

It is our job to jump in and change the subject to something that they, I'm just totally giving this away. So if you ever see us doing this well here, but that to me tells me, holy shit, hold on, there's a lot here. Well, and also friends, this is an edited version that we saw. Yeah, there's a lot that it's on the cutting room floor. I'm not saying that Alex knows like, oh my gosh, all the secrets, but I could definitely see Sarah be like, I can't say anymore.

I need you to keep going. Yeah, I need to change the subject.

“I think that there's definitely an element where I can't believe we're going back to this.”

Let's see, this is two different outcomes.

There's the outcome of like you've been saying throughout basically our entire Akatar coverage,

which was what does the mating bond look like if nature got it wrong, but you get to choose each other anyway? Where they end up together despite the mating. Yes, there's the other side of it where that could have very easily been a, what happens when nature gets wrong and as real is what's right. So right back where I mean, did we really think we were going to get anything with the ship wars here? I might not have been optimistic about three books, but I was pessimistic enough about this.

And I do think one thing that we can't agree on that we're both optimistic about is this cement that Elaine is going to be a major POV or a major plot in the next book. Yes, absolutely. And I think that her own emotional journey will be a major plot plot A, yes, and how she rediscovers herself will be complemented by a romance that best serves her character development. Or even romance is.

“I'm not saying the same time necessarily, but hey, if that's what you wanted to get your girl from and everybody is consensual and what I am.”

But I'm sticking to my theory that SJM is going to explore the idea of Elaine and Lucien ending up together despite the mating bond versus drawing them together. Like Sarah said, Lucien is very closely connected to Elaine's trauma of becoming a fae. And I think part of her journey will have to be forgiving him in his role for that. And in order to do that, she has to do some heavy personal development for herself first where she has to accept who she is before she can really forgive him. Well, I think a trope that we could absolutely see next book is for sports proximity.

I mean, we know that there's a whole coastline plot on the continent, so I could see a world in which Lucien Elaine and maybe that's a half to go to the continent. And Lucien and Elaine being forced together in that way, it forces them to work through their trauma together. And or there, Elaine specifically with Lucien being so deeply tied to it, I could absolutely see that being part of it. I would be I trust Sarah J. Massey do that in a very careful way where it's not like kiss. Yeah, I see like the thing is they've kind of already had forced proximity that wouldn't work.

Well, did Lucien really well yeah he did try. She has not done the work herself yet. That's true and I, well okay, so then in that case, do you think that as real is going to be part of like kind of how Cassie was part of Nessus healing journey. And then there might be a twist where it's like, I've done the healing work, but do we work together or do we work together in case I might need to give as real a hug. I actually don't because then quit but then okay, so I'm going to bring in a wildcard here.

That's because again, we speculate a lot that there's something between that solution and I wonder if one of the POVs that she surprised by is like that and like that whole plot line with again co-state and her curse. And I know we joke about some of the pine tree, but you all, there is an actual like Russian folklore that is supposedly tied to this. So I do think that there's a world in which Elaine actually ends up with no one. And I do too. I'll throw out as real and like if we're pairing people off as real and Gwen and Lucien and Asa.

And then Elaine gets to be her own person and she's going to have a court because Cameron's gone.

Well, Tim was not never mind.

I love this idea that there is a found love between Lucien and Elaine despite the mating bond.

“And I think one of the reasons we both lean more towards wanting that as part of the next Akatar installment is because three sisters with three brothers, three bad boys feels a little too perfect.”

And also Asa real, I love Asa real and Gwen, I just feel like they make real lot of sense together. But it also we haven't been in Elaine's POV yet. So we have the right to change our minds as what I will say. Yes, absolutely. And this is all great stuff. We can explore more in before October. We're never going to talk to you about this.

But let's talk. Where did Bri Axis go?

Quick TLDR on who Bri Axis is and what happened here.

Bri Axis is a creature of nightmares that resides beneath the library in the night court in long time ago. Someone locked Bri Axis under this library using very strong words. No one knows this monsters true form because we know that embodies whatever it encounters fears most. In Akobor, favorite makes a deal with Bri Axis because it's with her. Aka, a her, Bri Axis because apparently, Bri Axis is a she. I love that fear itself is a woman.

My feminine rage just gets off on that living nightmare. I need to get there and wild. You just release a new line of girl dinner and it's a praying mantis eating out the partner. It's like girl dinner. I need to get that. That's for my feminine rage, Bri Axis era. Anyway, Ferra has Amber and remove the words on Bri Axis that are holding her and then offers her freedom in exchange for fighting on their side during the war. In exchange, Bri Axis wants sunlight, moonlight, and the stars. So why the question where is Bri Axis?

After the war in Akobor, Bri Axis vanished. As far as we know, she's floating around Prithians. They're in the shit out of who knows who. Hopefully, Baron. Maybe, Tamplin. Or maybe, she was captured. We don't entirely know. Race and fame have attempted to hunt her down. And I will give them this.

They're like, "Where's Bri Axis? Let's have someone go on it." They're not trying the most hard. They also have other things on their plate. And this is much to Cassian's sweet dismay. So to respond with where Bri Axis is, Sarah says, "Where do you think she went? Where do you think fear goes?"

So she was really emphasizing this concept of, "Do we think fear goes?" Yes, the war.

“More at Frost and Starlight. Remember when she sees the shadow, when she's, when she has her estate with Elliot, like her horse?”

What if that was Bri Axis? And it's kind of like foreshadowing that Morris, dark past, her fear of her family, her fear of her past of areas is going to come back to Hunter. Maybe. I did not get that impression, but maybe, maybe. Maybe. I think we talked about it during our lack of fast. Probably. Probably. It was a fever dream.

So I've been thinking that maybe Bri Axis is like within some thing or some wine. That it's like a symbolic, you know, like where do you think fear goes?

And it probably ultimately does not matter in the grand scheme of things.

That was kind of my impression that I got from Sarah. And she was speculating it on the spot about, like, well, where do you think fear would go? And just kind of like, volleying the question back to us readers and leaving it up to us to decide. That was my impression. That was my impression as well.

But I'm still going to go with, she is somewhere tormenting Baron, because that just makes me happy. I Sarah wonders where Alex finds her questions. She's like, "I don't think this is like, "Oh God, it's probably." Oh God, thanks for these things.

“Let's throw you down. Okay, next question, how do the thing get to the house of wind?”

Speaking of questions of wind. We've talked about this so much. Well, Sarah said, we will find out the screen ice grumped. Accuts are six. Well, most likely give us the air six seven or eight.

We'll give us the answers of where she's given us the things we need to know. The funniest thing is that it's like nobody else cares, but I do. Where's my Sarah bad love is so much because we were hung up on how all the fake up to the house of wind without that wings.

They always have like the starfall balls up there and whatnot.

I say starfall balls. You know what I mean? The starfall celebrations. And Nesta was on those 10,000 steps when everyone was arriving. So we know they didn't use that entrance and their fancy starfall counts.

We just want to be the impression that there's like an Uber bat boy sort of situation. Walking up 10,000 steps. I don't even remember how many Empire State buildings that is. I did some kind of math during it. But like in heels.

I could barely walk up five steps in heels like that sounds like hell.

“So another question that Alex tried was what is resands last name?”

Well, Sarah would not share what his last name is. She insisted he is one of a kind. I got the impression that he does not have a last name though. I guess we'll continue this conversation in those spoilers. Well, and when Alex asked if it even matters resands last name, Sarah J. Masco's no.

So I guess there we kind of have it. Maybe it's like it doesn't matter now when she might throw it in later. Like we were talking earlier. She doesn't plot out something with one. And it just ended up being like that.

I just left her like he's one of a kind.

Speaking of names, what is the king of hybrids actual name?

“So she was joking like Fred Frank as a callback to an earlier joke that is not a sexy name.”

Just as for the F names apparently, Frank's of this world, you are sexy too. But this did come off as Sarah acting like it doesn't really matter. Point is that it's just not a sexy name in her eyes that whatever the king of hybrids name is. But then Ashley and did her estranged thing. And she did say quote that might be something that is discussed.

I'm guessing that that my pessimistic guess is that's just a disclaimer. She's giving just in case eventually pops up. But I am in the camp of she's saying it doesn't matter. I'm also right there with you. Yes. Next.

What the bane of our existence. I could tell our book one coverage. Why is there a pool of starlight in the spring court? Is it a portal? This is before the prison started being.

In case you're like, why was this asked? There was a huge theory or theories in the act of our fandom around why the literal heck there is a pool of starlight in the spring court. A pool that Tamland has no idea why it's there or where it came from. People us included wonder if it was a portal to the night court.

This especially fed the theory that Reese's sister was Tamland's mate. And how they bounced back and forth to each other that way. And they were able to get their goods that way.

“Or if there are the lost spirits of these starfall and that's how they ended up there.”

Or and this is one of my favorites that you pulled out Lex. What if it's a reference to the Daplan and how they used to drink the magic of the land like fine wine. And this was like a concentrated pool to fuel them up on power aid style. Well, Sarah Jamass kind of crushed this kind of with a quote, "Who thinks of these things?"

Again, us Sarah, us, we do. And then she said, "I'm not answering that." So I teach ESD for my Rebecca Yarn. But then she was like, "Hmm, but I also take this as a not right out, no, but also definitely not a yes." Maybe it's something she didn't really think of and originally wanted to write.

And now she's like, "Oh, well, maybe I could come back to that at some point. She's the way to pigeonhole herself." Which I honestly, I get that. And yet, I'm kind of like, "Do you know how many hours of work were going to do that?" I was like, "I'm so out of my god."

I wouldn't change it for a second.

All right, friends. Last, but dear god, most certainly not least. Part one of the question, "Can you tell us anything about the dusk court?" Again, this is only with Akatar spoilers. In the Western Isles, the same location as where the prison sits.

Now, this is where the prison where the bunk harbor was, where land this was. It used to be an eighth court. But now it falls under resand jurisdiction. And his blood is keyed to the gates. Quote.

The prison was made before high lords existed. Before Prithian was Prithian.

“Some of the inmates remember those days.”

Remember a time when it was more as family, not mine, that ruled in the north. Serity Massette. And I quote, "What do you want me to say, Alex?" I, a lot of things, Sarah.

First of all, that's her feeling like I'm not giving you the plot of the next plot.

Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. That's exactly. This immense confirms underlying italicized save on the floppy disk. That this is absolutely what we are going to be learning about in Akatar 6/7 and 8.

This is also a place that hasn't eight pointed star on the floor. You mean like the tattoo on Nesta's back? We talk so much in our Akatar coverage, and especially in our mass-first madness coverage, about Nesta being the highlight of the desk court and becoming that in a future Akatar book. I absolutely see that being one of the POVs because I don't see her discovering the desk court

in anyone else's POV other than Nesta's. Yeah, I agree. Well, and there was so much foreshadowing for Nesta to become in a queen. And all of that end. Oh, I.

Like literally from Chapter 1 of Akatar, the queen language was all there. Yeah, and I am just so wholeheartedly on the desk court camp. I will die on that hill. I am absolutely fascinated by all of this. Gosh, it's like, I just want to keep talking about this,

but I know that we have so much more to keep talking about.

We'll come back in our mass-first madness.

Yes, yes. So before we move into our throne of glass spoilers, Territory. Friendly reminder, this is going to be thrown a glass in Akatar spoilers, because Akatar is going to be covered for all of this, because that was how the interview went.

But also, we have 11 months of Akatar deep-died episodes, where we go through Chapter Chunks of every single Akatar book,

how my girl build so much world building. The culture and the mother. And I'm lying of the bad boys. I don't even have time on that. That was before we had a content research until nine PM at night.

Oh, God.

“Now, if you want to go listen to the link is in the show notes for those episodes.”

All right, thrown of glass from the reminder, we just finished our four part fan guide on thrown a glass. So this is going to be really fun. Well, and if you have not finished thrown of glass, really and truly our fan guides are divided up.

So each episode only has spoilers, like up to X book. And we really do talk about the set up for what you'll be reading next.

And then the second half is going to be whole series spoilers.

So you just dropped your-- If you're just kind of getting into thrown a glass or you are a little bit intimidated, not to do it on our own horn. But those fans-- So our extremely useful--

[LAUGHTER] Those episodes. Yes. All right, and the first episode is no series spoilers. So it's everything you need to know before reading Assassin's Blade,

thrown a glass and a crown of midnight. All right. Now we're going to be talking thrown a glass spoilers. If you have not read thrown a glass, skip ahead to cross and study. If you write cross and study or say goodbye.

Okay.

“I really enjoy that we got the backstory of how thrown a glass came to be.”

I love how Sara talked about how Aliens and her own journey were parallel. While Aliens is by no means Sara, they basically grew up together.

And they learned how to live and be their own person together.

Aliens mirrors Sara's own experiences and train adulthood. Aliens was also able to be what Sara wanted to be unapologetic. Take Aliens or leave her. She's not here to try to be liked. Sara didn't grow up feeling--

She was an environment where women were allowed to be angry or rage. They had to be nice and polite. And she was not any of those things. She didn't want to be any of those things. So she was like-- but I was kind and all of that.

Like I wanted to plug that in there for her. So she made sure Aliens was not that. She got to put what she was internally experiencing into Aliens as a character. And I love that Sara is like,

"Alan is who she is and you can either accept her or don't. I don't care." And yes, that is exactly Aliens character. And I just love how Sara was able to capture her own feelings of becoming an adult and finding oneself

in your voice and your strength within Aliens. Like, I just love her character. Yeah, you can really feel it. And especially in the early episodes,

“I think we were even talking about this during”

our fan club Live Q&A. Because somebody had asked if we think that the books would have been different if Sara had written "Alan Selena" later on in her life. And we were like, absolutely. Her character I think would have been completely different.

Because they were parallel so much growing up together. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. See, Alan mature. We got to see Sara's writing mature.

It was really special to experience. When something that Sara mentioned about Alan

is she never tried to control her.

Like, Alan just took her where the wind took her. And that is so Alan. It's so Alan. She feels like a person so vividly on those pages. And I think that that's a huge reason why.

She let the character define the story. And again, I keep going back to what a level of trust that is and just like everything's going to work out. And that I really admire that for her as a writer. I also want to throw out how she mentioned

the romantic relationships. Because we do see Selena with two men with Dorian and then Kayal. And then obviously we have her with Rowan later with Alan. And I love that.

Like, it doesn't feel bait and switchy though. It doesn't go like that. It's a self-discovery. Yes. Like, with Akatar, it's definitely bait and switchy.

Because we have Tamlin, we're falling in love with him. Yeti, yeti, yeti, yeti, yeti. And then suddenly bam. There you are. I've been looking for you.

With Kayal, it's wrong people right time where it's like they're exactly who they needed in that moment. Same with Dorian and her. Like, they were two people who were attracted to each other. But do your god were they not right at that moment

or nor were they in general? And then there's Rowan who she gets to learn and be like, I know you and I both had that experience where we've dated people who were like, this feels good. But then you're like, oh dear god, this is not right.

And then, you know, it just completely changes when you meet your person. And I'm really glad she talked about that. Because I feel like that's something a lot of authors we were so used to the bait and switch.

And I feel like it just feels so natural for an 18 year old which is how we start with Selena. And Sarah also really talked about needing ailing to have the space to make her own bad choices and learn from her mistakes.

And like Nicole was saying, just have different relationships.

but otherwise as well, platonic relationship

“familial relationships that help her grow into”

who she becomes. And we've already talked about this a little bit. But again, Sarah letting her characters make bad choices is human. It's a human thing, right?

And it's more of the learning from those choices as well as it really being true to their character in some kind of way. So I just, I loved that conversation about Alan and all of that, yeah.

All right, let's get into some rapid fire through on the glasses.

First off, what did Lorken do?

I love that Sarah too mass is like someone just explained this to her like a few months ago. I'm assuming she means like explain the discourse around the fandom of people being like, "What happened, Sarah? We need to know!"

She's like, wait, you don't know? She's like, and that was pretty obvious. But she says that she doesn't know how to feel about it. I mean, when she says that, I'm assuming she doesn't know how to feel about us

needing to have that information. But she said maybe she will have bonus content as a surprise Christmas present someday. I'll be honest, I am not holding my breath, but what a awesome surprise

if we ever get it. Next, where is Vaan? Quick pause, in case you're like, who's Vaan again? He is the sixth member of Maeve's cadre

and the member we definitely know the least about. His animal form is an offspring and the only description we get is in the form of great wings. Considerable wingspan.

He was sent to me looking for Lorken at the same time as Gabriel and Fenris. This is an empire of storms. However, Vaan went north in his search and he seems to be the only member

that spends the most time apart from the others. To our surprise, Sarah said that this is something she thinks about a lot. Us two, Sarah, but then she was like,

that's all I'm going to say about that. Do you think Vaan's going to show up

in a mass-first connection?

Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. He accidentally got lost in another world and it's like no wonder he's been absent. Nobody has seen him in books at all.

He's not even on the planet, probably. Maybe we'll see him in one of these ac guitar books as, like, we won't be like, and then there was Vaan from Throne of Glass. Like, I could see it being a super deep cut

or something like that. And I bet even Sarah wouldn't even specify, yes, it is him. It would just leave it to us, especially. But I kind of say,

seriously theorizing about Vaan and how he fits into the mass-first was not on my bingo card. Okay, so here's, so this is just like Throne of Glass and ac guitar spoiler.

What if he does go into Prithian? He gets locked, he went up to Rifthold and he got lost in a Rift. That was open in the world somewhere or Mr. or whatever.

And he traveled to ac guitar

and he sees Rhys and he's like, "Mave? Are you connected to Mave?" And what if that is how we get the final solidification of

is Mave connected to Rhys? Or even say, "Is Mave's safe form connected to Rhys?"

“And that's how we get that mass-first parallel?”

I don't know, I'm curious. I am very curious too. Vaan! I was very surprised that she walked that kind of and non-answer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or maybe she's just having fun with us like it honestly. I'll take it. Feed me, Sarah.

Next, where is Mannon now? So in case it's been a minute since you finished Kingdom of Vash, we left Mannon as she headed off back to the Western Weiss to the witch kingdom to reclaim

the lands for the witches as their queen. Remember she's both the iron teeth and crockin descendent. Options that were offered to her at the end of Kingdom of Vash

were that Ansel offered to share the Weiss and to divide the land as it was at the height of the witch kingdom. Dorian asked her to train his aerial legion of women as they play to see her more.

And Irene told her and Dorian to just get married if they want to see more of each other. So Sarah's answer was, honestly, Mannon should be in therapy

because she went through a lot. Given how Sarah mentioned how she unknowingly channeled a lot of herself into Mannon's story, that makes a lot of sense.

“That's what she wants for Mannon at this point.”

I'm just going to pretend that the Western Weiss has very good mental health care insurance. And she's off rebuilding her kingdom and her in a braxos.

Go on many reflective flights that she then gets to talk about in therapy. I love that. And also, you know, the Kraken witches they have been

posing as healers. And all of that, so maybe... Maybe... Maybe... There's a really good therapist.

Yeah. I could see a Kraken witch being a good therapist. I agree. Mannon actually go to it.

That is a different subject. I think with enough time. That's not my friend or braxos, she would. Next.

Why did Alan have to lose her powers?

Alan sacrificed her powers to recreate

the lock for the word keys and the word gate. The lock required all of her powers and her life force. And she was about to die,

but luckily she was gifted enough power by Mallow Firebringer

“that she only had to give up her human life”

and then she kept her faith. Life force. But as a result, she has a vastly reduced power bank. So Sarah says that she really grappled

with that decision because Alan had to learn to love and embrace her magic, especially in Airifier. And at the same time,

there had to be a level of sacrifice. And the ending wouldn't have felt as deserved if she had her magic and she was able to face off with Mave and Arrow 1 as a result in that way.

And S.J.M. as an endless thinker about things. She wonders what life looks like after losing all that power. How would you feel?

And it could be the start of a new journey. And this was one of my favorite quotes for the entire interview. "Taking away their magic doesn't take away their strength.

They, meaning Nesta and Alan, they're still badasses. That doesn't go away and make them less of a hero. Bravo to that.

I loved that answer." So then Alex asked, will we ever see our throne of glass characters again? And Sarah said

“that while she thinks about them all the time,”

if her children let her sleep in past 5 a.m. maybe I feel this so much. Yes. So that settled that online debate

at least for now. And on a similar note, Alex wanted to know what happened to the world of throne of glass book?

Will it ever be released? So friends, this is a book that was going to be like a glossary of all things

thrown of glass. Covering languages, geography, religions, and history among many other topics. For a while,

it was listed on the Bloomsbury website, but in October 2020, it was taken down. So Sarah mentioned how she thought the project was going to be easy, but this was something that meant a lot to her

and she had to dedicate a lot of time to it. And frankly, she wanted to focus on putting out other stories. So maybe it will come out at a different time.

I'm not going to lie. I'm almost relieved. Like, don't give me wrong. I would have loved that for a throne of glass fan.

Guide coverage, especially. But at the end of the day, the stories are why we have fallen in love

with the mass for so much. And I'm really glad that that is where she's devoting her time. All right, friends. Let's move into our

crescent city spoilers territory. So this is only crescent city and Akatar spoilers, and it's going to be very, very short,

because then we're going to move right into mass first spoilers. Okay. So we really only have rapid fire when it comes to crescent city only.

So because we never saw a body,

is Kormack actually dead. So remember, Kormack was the crown prince of the Avalon Faye. He tried to get engaged to Bryce in Sky and Breath,

but after working alongside our crew and learning that him and Sophie were both rebels and very much in love. He sacrificed himself at the final battle

at the ending of Book 2. Why do people think he's still alive? No body, no crime. That's why Kormack also had the power of winnowing.

So there was the argument that he went away among other things. Sergei mass shakes her head and she goes,

"Where do you find these questions?" But I will say she never said yes or no. Although, I think it's a no. Although, I think it's a,

he's dead. He's dead too. Yes, he's dead. Next, our Bryce and Hunt really made. And this one, she was genuinely surprised by it.

She actually answered. She's like, yes, and that is not even up for debate. How could that even be up for debate? Then, when asked the follow-up of her true mate being as real

and like kind of like why this question was even posed, Sarah laughed and said, "No." And she's sorry to anyone who shipped Bryce and as real. I accept your apologies, Sarah.

Thank you. Next question. Why are their honors? To which Sarah's like, why are their not-to-other?

[laughter] Honors for leg communications between those who live in Crescent City, including the mayor and the Istros River, the Reapers and the Bone Quarter,

and of course the residents of Loonathian. They are extremely intelligent and they're extremely cute. Sarah absolutely adores honors. She thinks they're super cute.

And if they were little messengers, that would be even cuter.

“So that's why we have messenger honors in Crescent City.”

All right, friends.

Let's move into some full mass first spoilers.

So please only listen to this section to the end of this episode. If you have finished every single book in the mass verse. I need to talk about more.

Because the question of what are more as powers Sarah said truth. And then she, oh my god, quote, but you have other smile powers beyond that.

I'm not gonna reveal any more. There might be more about that. Who knows? Lexi, I'm doing it. I am dying on the hill.

I am dying on it.

I will dramatically die. More is a crockin' witch. Let's go through the reason why. Her power is truth. You know who else had a very similar

to truth power?

“Fuckin' Baba Yellow Lake when she was able”

to see through any bullshit and all of that. The color that more constantly wears is red. The direct color we associate with the crockin' which is especially around the cloaks. The fact that she got her powers

rate when she got her first period.

That is literally witch lore. And throw it a glass. Like, that is-- What the fuck? What the fuck?

The fact that there's multiple mentions of her being able to perform something similar to the yielding. And that's how she cemented herself as Reese's second.

And basically, when everyone else is dead in his court, more is just the failsafe, aka the yielding. The connection between her family

and the Oriburos mirror, which feels extremely, which mirror re, to me. Now some people think that she

might be Asterin's long lost baby. The baby who died in the miscarriage. Sadly, I really don't think so.

“Mainly because more would have to be a crockin' witch.”

And the crockins look very similar to the fe, while the iron teeth take much more after the vulg with vulg-like qualities, like literally iron in their nails and like all of that stuff.

So there's so much more to this. But the way that Sarah J. Nass said that it may maybe like alarm alarm alarm. I feel like we have to be getting more. P-O-V story going forward in the next book.

Like I wonder if that's one of the P-O-Vs that was surprising to her. Again, Sarah has mentioned in previous interviews. This is from a long time ago. That more story is most likely going to be in novella.

And I wonder if that's one of the reasons this surprised her is because this is not in novella. This is this is much deeper. So I just need to get that off my chest.

I've been on this bill for two years. (laughing) Oh my god. All right next question. Who or what is Fury X-Tar?

Oh my girl. Fury X-Tar is an assassin and quite a mysterious woman. Her age, her species, her veneer class, and her motives are entirely unknown.

Fans want to know because she's such a mystery. She tells Bryce her upbringing was quote. More fucked up than she knew. And everyone is quite scared of her, including the arc angels.

We're supposed to be like walking gods. Well, and there's speculation among the fandom that Fury is connected to Imran or is the same kind of other worldly creature as Imran is.

There's other theories that are variations of Fury being an actual Fury from myth, a vulg, princess, or queen, or the a daughter of an asteri. Now some suspect that Fury might be

the daughter of fanitose and crew up in the court of nightmares then she somehow ended up in Midgard. I am extremely hung up on this

because during our aqua war coverage, in mass-first menace,

there is a mention of Lord fanitose in the court of nightmares. And there's a fanitose in Crescent City. He's one of the princes of hell. He's the prince of the ravine.

Also, fanitose, in Greek mythology, is the personification of death. He is the son of Nix, the goddess of knight. But who is his daughter? Fanitose's daughter, you ask?

Her name is Enris. Okay, things are looking fine? Things are looking good? Until you look up what Enris means, it means long pause.

Fury! Fury! Literally! How does someone in aqua war end up in Midgard as one of the princes of hell?

Why does his daughter's name mean Fury? We know from House of Sky and Breath that Danica used her blood tracing hown powers on Fury to learn her lineage and it's a big hush hush.

“Is she the daughter of the prince of the fourth level of hell?”

And did Serenji mass just happen to drop that in a different series? Because there are quite a number of theories about the different entrances into the hell realms. Almost like the northern rift connects Midgard to hell. There's a northern rift to prithian.

I mean, that Bryce uses maybe Romeo is a thin place too, especially because it has a bunch of mystery everywhere. Maybe this is how the antidote keeps getting in and out. He keeps going from the unaccorded nightmares back to Midgard. Quarter nightmares back to Midgard.

It's quite the commute for my guy. But so obsessed with this. So I'm so sorry to call, but this is going to remain a mystery. Because Sarah says, "Again, these questions are like, "You're asking me things.

"I don't know if I should confirm, deny, "or ruin their dreams by hands. "You know what I'm gonna do with the dream of that?" That's why I appreciate it. I'm going to live in my own little world

that you're right to call with your theory. I think even though we get that ruin their dreams by hands. She does sound a lot like there is no crazy connection. And I am leaning further and further away

from some of the detailed mass-first theories,

And I know I would at least need a master document for all these extras. Oh my gosh. Alright, moving on.

“There's a lot of theories that Reese and Roon”

are related. Can Sarah confirm or deny those theories? So, Reese and Roon are not only described

as looking basically the same,

minus the hair and the piercings. But from CC2, Bryce looks at Reese and literally says Roon. So technically, we do actually get confirmation that they are related in Crescent City 3.

Celine is sister to Helena, who went to start the starborn line in the CC world while Celine started it or continued it in Perthian. And because of how Celine married the high lord of the night court, her bloodline descended,

Peter, Peter, Peter, Peter, Peter to do all the way down to Reese. So they are great many times removed cousins. But it's the follow-up question that made us go, "Bah, gasp is mafe related to any of them. The main links are that of morph physical appearance.

I mean violet starry eyes are how maids eyes are described. It's only described that way once, but Reese's eyes are violet with flex of starlight. Maids of described is having this like raven-haired beauty. Obviously Reese is quite the beauty himself,

but he also has that blue black hair, much like a raven's feathers. There's also a lot of similarities between their powers. Mind reading, mind control, darkness, shadows, Reese can winnow a whole-fucking army.

Maid has the ability to make a whole ship disappear and can move throughout the world.

It's never named winnowing phony their defenses powers.

It's never named winnowing. So all the theories linked to Reese and Maid being connected while some of them also linking to Roon being in the conversation as well. So Sarah, so shockingly, dodged the question and say,

"Well, what do you want me to do? Sand you over my notebooks, do you want to comb through all of that?" Yes, sand, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, absolutely, I do.

Oh my gosh. But I take that knife. Okay, I would just pay with money I don't have. Oh, okay, sorry. Just family parties.

To be honest, this feels like a different kind of deflection than the previous ones where she's like, "Where did you get these questions or like shaking her head?" This one, she's kind of almost like retreating and it feels very much like something she's thought about.

Now, whether it's something she's written about, that's where I keep going back to this fond thing, which I'll get into in a second, because the way that she smurks around and that's all I have to say about that,

regarding where Vaughan is and how she thinks about it, I absolutely think he's a walker. And he's going to, or he accidentally fell into a rift and plopped down in Prithian,

“and I think that he's going to look at race”

and be like, "Oh my God, you look just like Maeve and we're somehow going to get a connection there." Maybe that's a wishful thing thing. But I'm going to get to my gotten there.

That sounds good. I will say the notebook comment is leading. And we think she's a fan of leading. We could make anything leading. That's what it really is.

Part of our jobs. All right, so what you've done. Speaking of leading, let's talk about the dusk court now with mass first spoilers. I think it's pretty much a given that the dusk court

is going to be a huge part of the next XR series, especially, I mean, everything that happens with the Asteri Vespris and Bryce Nesta and Asriel in the prison and below the prison, really. Let's not forget that Bryce is a descendant of Selena, really, Helena.

But Selena looks a hell of a lot like Reese's sister.

That was not a throw away line that we're never going to see again.

Yeah. Oh my God. Now, I want to also open up the theory that we did talk a lot about in our Akatar mass first madness coverage that the arts around the sisters are descendants of the dusk court as well.

Selena, key her own bloodline into the prison itself and her power is glowing starlight. Nesta can walk through words in the prison that she should not be able to walk through. No, yes, she's made of the, she's made from the colder,

and the colderness is almighty power. That's kind of how it's explained away in silver flames, but I highly wonder if it's another reason. There's also multiple mentions in the original trilogy of, especially Akamathan, Akwar, a favorite glowing bright

as a star. What is Selena's power? Fucking starlight. If this is the case, what if the next Akatar book follows all three of the archer-on sisters and their heritage?

Now, if you want, do you have anything to say? No, I'm just, I'm just sitting back and just enjoying the city, right?

“Okay, so if you want to watch me absolutely crash out”

about this multiple times, we have the entire Selena download, walk through, and how that relates to everything in Akamathan. All that in our Accord of Silver Flames episode seven.

Seven!

“Okay, while we're talking about the lineage of the archer-on sisters,”

what about Mama Archeron? And more specifically, is she a descendant of the iron teeth, which is, we know that Mama Archeron died of typhus when Pharaoh was eight before the events of Akatar Book 1. Mama Archeron unevenly divided her love and attention towards her daughters.

Because Nessa was most like herself,

she groomed her eldest to become a very powerful woman

who she wanted to marry a man of great wealth and prestige on the continent while barely giving attention to Elaine or Pharaoh. Mama Archeron saw Nessa's talents as a dancer and ensured Nessa learned from an early age to be the best. And that was a huge part of our coverage with her character

dissection in Silver Flames. Now there are about a million theories around Pharaoh's mom, where she descended from, why this is the case. Specifically around Nessa, the reason I'm highlighting her so much is because Nessa's mentioned to be a witch multiple times,

especially around the allurian warriors, but they're like, what's this witch? What are you doing? What's this witch doing here? And she's like, I'll be a witch.

And more, more is like, no, you don't know what you're talking about. And she actually explains a little bit more of what which is are. I don't think that's an accident. I'm getting off topic. [laughing]

[laughing] As I'm just... [laughing] That's for this part.

You're just crashing out of my mouth.

[laughing] Wait, it's me back. She will live in one hour. [laughing] She looks open on my computer at one time

for just a year straight. Oh, God. Now, some people think that Mama Archron was a high-fay, and she fell in love with a human man. Especially if she met, oh, God, here I go.

Especially if she met Papa Archron, and he is a merchant trading with Brithian on his spice watch, especially if considering he's only going to the safe areas from Amaran, but I digress again. [laughing]

But let us be known. Spice watch made his way into this episode. [laughing] I wouldn't be me if it didn't.

No, you know, one of the first things I'm going to do after we finish

Akatar 6 is search for the word Spice watch. [laughing] Oh, my God. Now, there's a possibility that she, Mimi Mama Archron, that she's half-high-fay,

especially if she's a descendant from Celine, which brings me to a very interesting mention that the Bone Carver has in Acobore. Quote, clever, that Februaryer. Her bloodline is long gone now,

though a trace still runs through some human line. Yes, when remembers her name, but I do. She would have been my salvation. Had I not made my choice long ago before she walked the earth. I mean, he's talking about Celine, right?

Yes, so he's talking about Celine, yes.

“But that's what her trace still runs through a human line”

has to be the Archerons. Yes, well, and it wouldn't be out of the question for, like, way back in their ancestry. Yes, for recent therapy to be related because, hey, I mean, Rowan and Alyn was like, "Wait, wish boilers, actually."

Rowan and Alyn, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, well, I commend Alex for mentioning the whole, like, is she an iron teeth witch. I honestly did not even think about that as part of this,

other than the whole Nesta mentions around witches and all that kind of stuff. Because I, when 1,000% think that Mama Archron is a half-fay descendant of Celine, yeah, absolutely, especially with all the mentions around. Especially with Nesta having a fucking eight-point star on her back.

Well, and then remember when Thera puts the crown on her head, the crown stars and how it literally just feels right and it glows. I'm so sorry, I don't have it right in front of me, so I don't remember exactly what happened. Yes, that's stood out because, yeah, yeah.

So, we're now just crashing out on her own. Let's break it out. I actually surrogate mass what she said here. Oh, surrogate mass shook her head. And then she closed her eyes.

And says she needs a spicy margarine. (laughing) To be honest, I don't want to have it take that. I definitely think there's more to Mama Archron. I think there's more to pop off Archron.

Yes, spice, the thing. But I don't think she's a descendant of the Iron Teeth Witches. I definitely think it's more that Clevver-fay warrior. Yes, I agree. Oh, I'm clever. Oh, god damn it, Sarah!

(laughing) She needs a spicy margarine. (laughing) So another question that Alex asked is, "How did the book of breathings and the walking dead end up in Jessabas library?"

I'm so glad she asked this question.

“So remember in Chapter 78 of Crescent City 1, right?”

You all just remember that right? I do, I do. No, you, you don't count Nicole. (laughing) Micah is in Bryce's office and Bryce searches the bookshelf

and brushing over these titles which include on the divine number, the walking dead, the book of breathings, the queen with many faces. And the big question is, "How the hell did the walking dead," which is a book that is literally from Throne of Glass

Well, and the queen of many faces sounds exactly like

the three-faced goddess. Yes, it does. (laughing) - Focus, you know what we know right now, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Okay, and we'll, real quickly, I want to check myself right now for expectations, because we all know how expectations were going into Crescent City 3 and a lot of those expectations did not pan out and we as the fandom get a little excited, understandably, you know, nothing wrong with that. And for us to be able to, like, it's okay if these, if these, if these are books, more focus on accatars, there was plenty of loose ends that need to be tied up, but I do think that we will get a quote threads from the universe that are those crossovers that are probably bigger nods and we got in silver flames, which there is a lot in silver flames.

“So I think that it'll be a little bit more on the page than that because our friends have seen a price and whatnot, you know, and they know about midguard and the estuary and all of that.”

And so I do think that now that they have this knowledge, what are they going to do about it here in Perthian?

Well, everything from Slyne down the Slyne's download, we didn't get to see the aftermath of how that played out in Perthian, and I think that we're absolutely going to, especially when she was nodding towards the POVs and how you're going to get a lot more insight into things. Maybe we're going to get insight into reason why he's like, why the fuck was my sister looking like Slyne? I don't know, but okay going back to something that we learned in CC3 15,000 years ago, just about worked as a priestess in the great library of Perthos, then when the library was attacked, she boarded a ship and smuggled some of the books on, you know, on her way out of the library.

We can assume that these books were included in the smuggling. We know that Faber joined the two halves of the book of breathing together and then throw it into the cauldron. So did it just like poop out in the library of Perthos, we don't really know. That's a good question, right? And I don't think it's too worried about the timeline stuff at this point because when you're traveling between worlds, I'm not going to let that be a guiding world. We're also talking about 15,000 years, like I'm like whatever.

I want to be very clear, I don't think we're going to like see just about or anything like that. We're not going to see those those questions, but I do think that the fact that she answered, I don't know you'll have to stay tuned, makes me excited that she's thinking about it.

“Exactly. That's where I guess. Yes, or like maybe not that exact answer will be answered, but the concept around it. Yes, how we're going to do another world around it.”

I'll look out into a library. Yes, pooped out into it. Okay, next, I'm tired. My dog won't sleep in her grave and she only sleeps on a pallet on the floor if it's the next one. Oh my god. All right, is the settling the same as the drop. So quick TLDR of what the settling is from throwing a glass. It describes the point in a phase life where they basically stop aging. It can also happen to a demi-fei, and it's basically the shock to the system that causes a fei to lose control of their magic and George just lose it all together. And in Crescent City, the drop is an essential event for a veneer to claim both their powers and immortality. The first lights grid power is generated by the pure undiluted light each veneer emits while making the drop.

And it is only during the drop that the flash of first light appears. So the drop itself is the easy part. It's falling into one's power. But once the bottom is reached, one's mortal body expires.

“While in arriving in mid-guard, the esteri infected the water on the planet with the parasite. No, we are not talking about the parasite possibly being in ac guitar. I refuse to look into that very more than I already have.”

The parasite burrows into a veneer and warps their magic. The esteri then created this coming of age ritual for all magical creatures who have entered mid-guard or are one of their descendants. This is a blast of magic that would be released contained and then I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not on by the esteri. So Sarah says in regards to is the settling the same as the drop. Quote, I don't, I don't, okay, you're asking, just skip it, just skip it. It's very, I'm going to say that they are related. I don't think they're the exact same thing, but they're related.

In my own world, yeah, I think, I, I'm going to take that as a, yes, like, I just, yes, my personal takeaway from that.

To like, she's, she's wanting to hold on to that reveal. So I will say the fact that she doesn't want to answer this or does mean that it, it might be answered in a future

“crescent city book. I don't think this is going to be an ac guitar revelation. I think that this would be like a house of many water CC4”

Or maybe I don't even know if we'll get like a direct answer, but just again, learning more about how these worlds are all in the same universe. Like, really has a fandom. It has become so canon to us. And while absolutely, yes, we, we got a crescent city three, I do think that we haven't seen nearly as much as we've been thinking on the paper. Right, obviously. And so I, I don't even know where I was going with this. I think that we will go ahead and get something that again brings the worlds even closer together again, something kind of like how we got in crescent city three that really like puts a puzzle pieces together.

And while this concept specifically might not be explored, I think it will still be able to be answerable, you know.

All right, last question for us to highlight from Sarah J. Mass was, "Fuck Mary Kill, resand, hunt, and ruin." And she refused to answer saying that I kind of want to fuck them all. I mean, don't we all girl, but you know what, Lexi and I are going to actually answer this. And we're going to say, "Fuck Mary Kill, Lexi, who would you fuck Mary Kill?" Cassie is not on this list, I'm so sorry. I think I would marry Rowan. I loved how supportive of a partner he was. Like, I'm not saying the other ones aren't, but yes, just yes. And then resand, I would fuck that boy.

Yes, and I'm so sorry, hunt. Like nothing against hunt, I promise. I think that we're both kind of in the same camp where I don't get bookboy from vibes from him. I honestly, I don't from Rowan either, but that's just totally my own personal feelings.

“Yeah, like if I have to play, then that's what mine would be.”

We actually have very different answers. So I would marry resand. I mean, that is kind of an obvious. He's one of my number one bookboy friends. I love that man so much. I would kill Rowan, which I'm so, like, that is like, I'm so sorry, but the only reason I would fuck hunt is he has lightning magic and he literally used his tongue as a vibrator when he was down, I'm right. And I'm just gonna be like, "Oh, you really have a thing for the wings, huh?" Well, I'd be pretty fine. But yeah, I would, I would need to know what that's like. I would need to know.

I went dad, friends. Thank you so much for listening to this emergency bonus episode around the SRJ Mass interview.

“We are so grateful to be doing this again. It's so much fun. Clearly, we've had a lot of fun this episode.”

Friendly reminder that we have Akatar coverage and throne of glass and mass first linked to all of those are in the show notes. We have a lot of content for the SRJ. We are ready. We're gonna have a lot more. Let's do this! What? It in the meantime. Next Monday, we are beginning our deep dive into the wonderful world of when the moon hatched one of my favorite books of all time.

We've episode one covering the prologue through chapter 15. Thank you as always to our very own surreal aka our content researcher Brooke.

And of course our executive producer who shouts to him and our community manager Peyton right now who are race editing this episode. As we are recording it, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Hayden. We are very active on social media with weekly trivia book guides lots and lots of throne of glass book guides right now. And so much more. So please be sure to follow us on instagram and slash our tiktok @fannycvandgirlspod. And if you're watching this on YouTube or want to watch on YouTube, pretty please hit that subscribe button to keep following along.

While you're hitting buttons, don't forget to rate this episode on whatever podcasting platform you are listening on. And if you're feeling extra generous, write a little love note in that review section. And last but certainly not least share this episode with your fellow Sarah J. Mass Friends. We did it. The two year drought has officially ended October 27th can't come soon enough! Woohoo! All right everybody, bye bye!