Broadway legend André De Shields doesn't walk, he floats

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This is fresh air, I'm Terry Gross. When Andre Dishield's name is mentioned, it's often preceded by the words "Broadway legend" or "The Great". He won a Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadies Town" in 2019, and the show won seven other Tony's, including best musical. Stars of the original Broadway cast, including Dishields, reunited for a revival of the show last year in London.

That production was filmed and will be released in theaters on Friday. Right now, Dishields is one of the stars of "Cats the Jellicle Ball", which won three Tony's last month.

It uses the same songs as "Cats" but with different beats, and is set in the queer underground ballroom culture of the '80s. That show is closing August 8th. Dishields is especially remarkable considering he's '80 and has been HIV positive since 1991.

“He grew up in Baltimore in what he describes as the innermost part of Baltimore's inner city, and figured getting an education would be key to getting out.”

He earned his BA in English literature at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, and in M.A. in African American studies from NYU. He started his career in experimental theater in Chicago. When his theater group performed in New York, he decided to stay. He soon got cast as the Wizard in the 1975 original Broadway cast of the Wiz, which was produced a few years before the movie. He was nominated for a Tony for his performance in their show, "Ait Miss Behavin", which was built around music associated with "Thats Waller", and he won an Emmy when it was produced for a 1982 NBC broadcast.

He was nominated for another Tony for his performance in the film "Anti".

“He's performed in a wide range of dramas, including King Lear, waiting for Gado, and death of his salesman.”

Let's start with Andre Dishields, singing the opening number of '80s town, in which he sets up the story and introduces the characters. The show tells a version of the Greek myths about '80s, 'hermies, orphias, and 'urritacy'. Dishields plays Hermes, the god who escorts the souls of the dead to the underworld, which is ruled by '80s. Here's Dishields from the original Broadway cast recording. It was the road to hell, it was hard time.

It was a world of nights and man. It's a world of nights and man. It's a world of nights and man. Andre Dishields, welcome to Frishera, congratulations on all the things that you're doing now. I just think it's great.

Did you ever believe that despite having been diagnosed with HIV in 1991, and believing that you had a considerably before that, but you just didn't have the diagnosis, that you'd not only live to see age 80, but that you'd be in a new film version of a musical you'd won a Tony Four, and at the same time you'd be on Broadway, as one of the stars of Cats, the Jellicle Ball. The answer to that question is yes. And my answer to that is no. I believed from my very first conscious thought that my destiny would rise up and meet me.

So when my mother shared with me that her lifelong dream had been to be a chorus girl, and that was the term she used.

Once I danced as she said chorus girl, and my father shared with me that he had always wanted to be a singer.

He had a beautiful ton of voice, but the closest he got to that dream coming true was to sing in the church choir.

I wanted to sing, I wanted to dance.

Now I can look at it and understand, oh wow, it's been bequeathed to me by those X and Y chromosomes that was responsible for my conception. So I see when you had it in '91, it was a death sentence. You had two partners who died of AIDS and friends as well, cast members who you work with.

“So you really thought you were going to be on Broadway at the age of 80?”

I didn't think I was going to be on Broadway at the age of 80, but I did know that I would be alive. And I did know that I would continue on my path. And I had already in 1980 before there was an acronym HIV that I had had an infection of my lymph nodes and not any one of three doctors on two continents could answer the question. What is this?

Now in 1979 when I had gone to London for the first time to perform in eight misbehaving, there was already a friend of mine who caught a cold and three days later he was dead.

“So the mystery was already in the air, how can someone die from a cold?”

There's something going on that nobody understands. So when my lymph nodes blew up in 1980 in Los Angeles on the tour of ain't misbehaving, I clocked it immediately. Whatever that mystery is, I'm beginning to decode it, I'm beginning to understand it. We see you were symptomatic for 11 years before you were diagnosed? Yes. It's a long time.

And when I finally got the clinical diagnosis, I had 16 T cells. So I was near death, but I knew I wasn't going to die.

“You know, the 80s town is about the souls of the dead. So seeing a 80s town made me think about the stories that human beings have told themselves over the centuries about why we are living and why we die.”

And the Greek myths are early examples of that when you did 80s town, when you were performing in it and when you went back, which I imagine you did to read the myths that 80s town draws on, didn't make you think about that. That the stories we've told ourselves about what happens after we die, how they've changed over time. I did exactly that. And I also, there's an African proverb, which is based on a bird, and the bird is called a sand kofa. It's a flightless bird, and it is known to walk deliberately, farward, but every once in a while it looks over its shoulder.

The lesson there is, if you do not know where you're coming from, where you've been, you can't possibly know where you're headed, where you're going. And when I was asked to embody the role of Hermes, not only did that proverb come to mind, but all of the close calls that I had experienced in my life came to mind, and I felt prepared to take on this role. Hermes is the creature that accompanies humans when they have to cross the river sticks to visit in80s. You can't get there if Hermes does not accompany you.

How have you changed how you can perform on stage at the age of 80? No one is as limber, but you still move with such grace. You're absolutely correct about what we think about the human body and the human spirit.

Yes, Mr. Arthur has visited me. I've got arthritis. My knees are compromised. My joints ache.

But I've got a doctor. His name is Dr. Footlights. Her name. Her name is Dr. Footlights. And when I stand on that stage, and when those lights come up, and when the audience greets me, the pain disappears. So I want to ask you about cats the jellicle bar. It's said in the queer bullroom culture where there are drag competitions in different categories relating to like singing, dance, costumes.

“Were you a part of that at all, either as a participant or an observer?”

I was not a part of the bald culture as we know it here in New York, and we give it a birth decade of the 80s.

But I did know of a namanan called the jewel box review, and it toured the children's circuit. I'm talking about the middle to late 50s in the last century. And the children's circuit was like a circuit of like black feeders started like in the Vaudeville era, I think. Exactly. And in Baltimore the theater was called the royal. And of course in the 60s urban renewal raised it, and the cultural spine of the city died.

However, I was able to see entertainment like my first motel review at the royal.

I was able to see moms may be at the royal. I was able to see flip Wilson at the royal. I was also able to see the jewel box review, which was a company of men who dressed as women. And they were gorgeous. At that time they were called transvestites. Which comes to my think, the French word "let's live at sea".

“But it's all about the idea that life is never what you think it is. Nothing is what it seems to be.”

And seeing the jewel box review was part of my education as an entertainer. What did it mean to you? Being people who would grab performers. It meant that fantasy had to be in my toolbox. It meant that what we do in our actual lives is what I as a performer must do on the stage. I must fold people. I must pretend the ancient Greek word for actor means hypocrite.

You must tell a lie in order to get through the 24-hour tragedy of each day. Did scene drag performers add to your desire and ability to dress in very non-conforming ways

“with bright colors and like short shorts walking the streets of Manhattan?”

You talked about how people would walk in the opposite direction. You were so outstanding looking that it was kind of scary to some people. Yes, yes. Like so eccentric looking. Did that contribute to you feeling that you wanted to and were able to wear whatever you wanted to.

And call attention to yourself in a very colorful and fashionable way. Exactly. Exactly. But now Terry, you and I have only spoken for a few minutes. And we don't really know what another but I'll bet you already know that I'd like to wax poetic. And wearing bright colors and saying pay attention to me. Even to the point of deliberately slowing my gate.

I don't rush anywhere. I walk slowly. My reputation is that Andre D'Sheels doesn't walk, he floats. Now, but this is because each of us, if we want to do something as commonplace as be happy and if we want to do something as exceptional as being called a legend, then one really must commit to being his best self.

Because you started on Broadway in the '70s.

“And also as a black actor, there aren't necessarily a whole lot of opportunities now, either for black actors, but there's more than there were.”

Yet you managed to be in two of the shows with black cast. It must behave in and the whiz.

Well, you've explained it in a nutshell. In the early '70s, Broadway was an inhospitable terrain for black actors

and black audiences.

“And with the advent of the whiz, that all changed.”

Part of the change had to do with the decision by the producer, Ken Harper, to take some of the money and invested in live action TV commercials, but we could lean into the living room and speak to our brethren who is sitting on the couch and say to them, "Don't sit there and become a couch potato. There's something that represents you playing on Broadway. You no longer have any reason to avoid it. You have a reason to come and become part of it." So the whiz opened that door for the growth of a black audience on Broadway, and an invitation to black artists to perform on Broadway.

We took that lesson from the brilliant film that starred Judy Garland, the whiz of us, but I certainly identified with her huge vulnerability, which made her a tremendous lesson in how to get an audience of people to pay attention. Now, that storyline was the exclusive world of white actors and white audiences, but the magic that Ken Harper brought to the production was to take that line of truth out of Dorothy's mouth, which is there's no place like home, and put it in the mouth of a little colored girl who sang in her church's choir.

And once you do that, then it becomes universal. And that is what the whiz should be remembered for.

“Your father, who wanted to be a singer, sang in church, how churchy was your family, and was that your first stage?”

The family wasn't very churchy, but they were pious people. They read their bibles on a daily basis. And everyone prayed for me and I didn't have to wonder why. I knew that I was the blackest of the black sheep and the family. And my mother, particularly, would take me to revival meetings, and when the preacher would ask for people to come down to the makeshift public,

people who wanted to know Jesus, my mother would always look at me and that was encouragement enough. And I would go down and I would get on my knees,

and I would, in quotes, accept Christ as my Savior. Not only did it please the preacher, but it please my mother. But it wasn't real. Oh, of course not. And I'm not making fun of it. I'm just saying I was being a good child. I was pleasing my mother. But I knew I wanted to sing the Devil's music. I wanted to go rip roaring through life, not cast caution to the wind, but have a great time being myself. Well, we need to take a break here. So let's continue this very soon. If you're just joining us, my guest is Andre DeShields. And he won a Tony for his performance in the musical Hades town.

He plays the role again in the new movie of the show, which opens Friday. He's currently on Broadway and cats the Jellicle Ball.

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Don't miss our full conversation in the rest of our games. Listen to the wait wait don't tell me podcasts in the NPR app, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is fresh air, I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Andre DeShields. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical Hades Town. He plays the role again in a new movie of the show, which opens Friday. He's currently on Broadway in Cats the Jellicle Ball, which closes August 8th. He played the wizard in the original Broadway cast of The Wiz. He was nominated for Tony's for his performances in the Fat Swallow musical Ain't Miss Behavin,

and the musical adaptation of the film The Fulmante. Your parents both wanted to be in Showbiz, your mother a chorus girl, your father a singer, and you felt that you kind of inherited their dreams that they couldn't fulfill, and you fulfilled them.

“But what was their reaction when they learned that you were really serious about being a performer? Did they encourage you?”

Ultimately, I was encouraged. In the beginning, when people would ask me, "And what are you going to do when you grow up at?"

And my response was I'm going to be a star, and they'd love to meet as if I had two heads, and then I managed to leave the neighborhood, and be the first of that community to attend college. And they started to believe that I was a miracle maker. And while I was a junior in college, the head of the drama department came to me and said, "Are you in the drama department?" I said, "No, I'm studying English." "Why? You do want to know."

“He said, "Well, I think this campus would benefit from a production of Lorraine Hansberry's, raising in the sun.”

But there aren't enough black students that alone in the drama department for me to do this, but I can do it by inviting people from the town to join us. I just can't find the boy to play Walter Lee younger, and I would like you to do that. Now, all my young life, I kept close to my best that I wanted to be an actor, and here was the blessing being offered to me. So members of my family took the bus all the way out to Wilmington, Ohio, not the entire family, but enough of the family to see me at the age of 19,

perform as Walter Lee younger and raising in the sun. And that's when it happened. Wow, Andre, you really have talent, and then the support began to grow.

“What do you think the drama teacher saw in you that made him or her realize that you belonged on stage?”

First of all, he saw a black male student, second of all, he saw a young man who carried himself as if he were a king.

Which I still do, my mission, my journey, is to discover the throne to which I know I am heir. So that's what I carry in my mind and my heart and in my viscera, as I walked on the quad, when I was 19 years old, at Wilmington College in Ohio, and that drama teacher, he witnessed the drama.

And at 19 by playing that character, I was able to dissolve the ship that was on my shoulder. What was the ship that was on your shoulder? I'm a black man, and I'm tired of being taken advantage of. You did this to me. I can't get anywhere and it's your fault. That's the ship. I can get anywhere I want. And it's my doing.

“And what does all the ship was embodying a character who couldn't get rid of?”

-Exactly. -Couldn't get rid of it. -Yes, exactly. That's exactly. That's essential to raising in the sun, Walter Lee younger who was supposed to be the man of the family,

playing everything on Mr. Whitey. And the mother says to him, "Oh, stop." One of the people who inspired you to become a performer made you think maybe you could really do it was John Bubbles, when you saw him in the 1943 musical film cabin in the sky, which has such an incredible cast. It's like ethyl water, lean on horn, Louis Armstrong, the Duke Ellington Orchestra and John Bubbles. So, Edward Chester Anderson, whom we all know, from the Jack King show. Yeah. Yeah. So let me play a little bit of John Bubbles from that film, and then we'll talk about what this meant to you.

And in this film he's in an eye club, and the Duke Ellington Orchestra is backing him up. He walks in like really dapper, like elegant suit. He has a cane kind of like Fred Astaire when he was dancing, and everybody's like admiring him, and then he breaks out into song.

They wouldn't fly. I got my shirt from a silver lining. I got my cane from an old old tree, and that is our stories and why.

The votes all make name me, just me, don't move my hands, girlie, and the girls, my teeth are burning, and just because. All we well smile, and suits us up, in the latest style, gee, I'm bad, I'm living.

“Why did troubles all of us smile, just me going to my colour scene, or we would different maybe, that's why they call me shine.”

So, listening back to that underage shields, what memories does it bring back and how did it inspire you? Now Terry Gross, this is why, among radio journalists, you are the goddess. Oh, thank you. Because that song, shine, which is a race song, was my audition song when I came to New York. It's how I got the whiz, it's how I got ain't misbehaving.

Really, this is what you're saying? Yes, and only recently, I didn't stop using it, but I don't need it any longer because now people know who Andre this shield is.

“Why did you choose it? And what do you think of the lyric?”

I chose it because of the lyrics. Now, you played from the middle of the song. Yes, because I wanted some of the slower part, and some of the faster part, or the better part.

But the song opens with a note that John Bubbles sings, and it's as if he's never going to stop hitting that note.

And you are amazed by this man singing this long, tender note. And just at the moment, when you think he's going to stop, he goes into what is essentially his biography. And I thought, wow, that's exactly what I need, another tool in my toolbox. There's a song that I'm trying to think of which one it is, where you hold a note excessively long. Well, have you seen Gats the Jelgobal?

Wow, that's a long time. But I learned that from John Bubbles, from watching Cabin in the sky, in the darken atmosphere of the royal theater, where the chicken circuit would visit. Every performance in Cabin in the sky was superlative, and Vincent Manelli knew that, which is why these folks were cast. Because they were the best Duteronomy, yes. Judy Garland's husband, father of Liza Manelli.

Do you see the connection, the great vulnerability from Judy Garland, which he gave to Liza Manelli,

“who is the daughter of Vincent Manelli, who directed the film that circumcised my heart?”

Yeah, nice connection. I mean, it's an interesting connection.

I've never heard somebody say circumcised my heart.

I'm just thinking about that for a minute. But you know what I mean, don't you? I do. Yeah, take away that, which is unnecessary. And leave you with the gold.

Do you still sing that song? And would you maybe want to sing it for us now? Oh, yes. Yes. You're making a black man blush right now.

And then you can't see it. Whenever you're ready.

“What is there about you what makes me feel well dressed?”

Whatever that is, as what you is, the same old clothes, shoes and hat. The same old thigh. Rearranged. Oh. It's very plain to see.

Just how this happened to me. I put some polish on my scalp piece. I turn my shoe string into a tie. I cut the corners off the edge of my coat. So they wouldn't fly.

I got my smile from a silver lining. I got my cane from an old old tree. I bought it just the reason why. They called me shine. She'd be better do.

You have a powerful voice.

And you sang the part that we didn't play at the beginning. Right. You were talking about. So I'm really glad you did that. My guest is Andre Dishield.

He's currently on Broadway in Cats, The Jellicle Ball, and in the film version of the musical Hades Town, which will be in movie theaters this Friday. More after a break. This is fresh air. This season I'm playing up many summer school.

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Listen every week, the way we don't tell me on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. This is fresh air. Let's get back to my interview with Andrade Dishields. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical Hades town. He plays the role again in a new movie of the show which opens Friday.

And he's currently on Broadway in Cats the Jellicle Ball. So when you started in theater, it was experimental theater, the theater company performed in New York.

And then you got the role in the whiz as the wizard of Oz.

That's incredible. You got such an extraordinary part so quickly. And the timing was perfect because it was like a black cast. And there weren't many black actors on stage.

“So like what an incredible door to open for you would exactly the right time?”

Exactly. And you literally begged for the chance to audition for the win. And your costume that you wore on stage is in the Smithsonian Museum of African American History. Why don't you describe it? Because obviously it's worthy of the Smithsonian so describe it for us.

Now remember the whiz opened on Broadway on January 5th, 1975.

It was the peak of the decade of permissiveness, particularly from men who thought of themselves as beautiful.

So we were wearing tight bell-bottom jeans. We were wearing short sleeve shirts. We were wearing these huge Jimmy Hendrix. Afros. We were wearing jewelry bracelets, big rings, and wearing platform shoes.

So that's exactly what I invested in the character of the whiz.

“He wears a white jumpsuit that looks as if it were painted on him.”

As if he were out of a Marvel comic book. He has a long creptoshine cape. He's wearing five-inch white platform boots. And he is wearing character makeup that makes him unidentified. So that when he is finally revealed as just another loser.

Another fraud, another comment. Yes, yes. There's a great impact on not only Dorothy and her three friends, but the entire audience.

So you're in the whiz, which is pretty incredible.

And then just three years after being in the whiz, your cast and eight-miss behaving. A musical review built around songs identified with Fats Waller. So let's hear a little bit of you singing from that. Most of the songs are sung by one or two other characters. It's a five-person cast and some songs have all five of you.

So I'm going to play part of the title song, eight-miss behaving. And this is a part where you solo. We'll pick it up right before that. I'm saving my love for you. Oh, hi, daddy.

Life jack on knock in the corner. Don't go nowhere. What do I care? Your kiss says I would wait in full of a baby. I don't care about it.

I'm home about it. You just mean my name is radio. I can't afford one. I'm saving my love for you. I'm saving my love just for you.

Oh, shut, daddy. I love it when you move.

“Did you already love Fats Waller's music when you were cast on the show?”

No, I wasn't a lover of Fats Waller's music. But I love the period. The period that he performed in? Yes, the holidays. The holidays.

The holidays. The holidays. The literature, too. Yes. And curiously, it is still that part of American history that is identified.

With black excellence. When indeed, when February comes around, the shortest and coldest month of the year. And we celebrate black heritage. We have to remind people that black history is American history. And the Harlem Renaissance was just one of its peaks.

Well, I'm going to take a pause of reintroduce you here because I need to take a break. So let me do that. If you're just joining us, my guest is Andre DeShield. He's currently on Broadway and Cats, the Jellicle Ball. He won a 2019 Tony for his performance in the musical Hades town as Hermes.

It opens on Friday. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air.

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This is Fresh Air. Let's get back to my interview with Andre DeShields. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical Hades Town. He plays the role again in a new movie of the show which opens Friday. And he's currently on Broadway in Cats the Jellicle Ball.

I want to change the subject and go back to the 90s when you were diagnosed with HIV and 91. And you're a partner of 17 years died of AIDS. And then three years after that, a partner of two years died of AIDS. Did you take care of them when they were really sick? I did. I became the nurse.

What was that life for you?

I'll share this with you. My first partner had been told by his doctor that if you ever run a fever of 104 or higher,

“you must immediately check yourself into the ER, the emergency room.”

Not too long after that. It happened. And I said to him, "Chico, you have a fever of 104." You were called with the doctor said, "Do you want me to take you to the ER?" And he said, "No." And I said, "Well, what do you want to do?" And he said, "I want to die in your arms."

Simple as that. Did that happen? Yes. Was it that night? No. It was sometime later.

And it was in the hospital. What was your reaction when he said that? Was it to try to convince him to go to the ER? I'll be with you. No, no, no, no.

He was... He was composite. I asked him a question. He responded. And I acted accordingly until it was impossible to do so. When I had to make decisions for him.

How did it change you to be surrounded by the death of people who you loved,

“the death of people who were very close friends and who were colleagues on stage?”

I became a missionary. And I became an advocate. And now AIDS, or at least HIV, is a condition that one can live with. I have for 45 years.

You're just remarkable. But what had to happen in this process, which is why I say I became a missionary, is that not everyone is infected with HIV, but everyone is affected by HIV.

And that's because we have criminalized it. And what we have to do is remove that stigma. So we're recording this on a Thursday, July 16th, and Cats Jellicle Ball, and you're one of the stars that closes on August 8th. So there are not many performances left.

What do you do during intermissions when you're doing the Broadway show?

First things first, go to the bathroom.

one of the performances was done at the civic stage of the Chicago Opera House.

And Catherine Hepburn was there doing Cocoa. And she allowed us to meet her at one point, because we had been asking our stage manager, "Why is it so cold in the theater? We shared space."

And he thought, "Oh, well, this is the time for you to meet Catherine Hepburn." And two things we learned. Down perform in a temperature higher than 45 degrees. And even if you don't have to go, go. So during intermission, go to the bathroom,

but you had the urge or not. You have a performance tonight, so I'm going to let you go in a couple of minutes.

“How are you feeling about these final performances?”

Are you savoring like every minute? Well, it didn't take the announcement of its closing to save her every minute. That happens eight times a week because the people who are coming to see cats, the jellicle ball, are coming to celebrate not their own liberation,

because we've arrived there some time ago.

But that finally, there's this intersection of history

and evolution that allows it to be above ground. Andrea, do she else? It's been wonderful talking with you. Thank you so much. It's the highlight of my day. I'm going to share it with everyone at the theater. They love for me to bring these kinds of rare opportunities into their lives.

Well, I wish you all the best. Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. Thank you. Andrea, this shield plays Hermes

“in a new film version of the Stage Musical Hades Town.”

It's the same role he won a Tony Force seven years ago in the original Broadway production. The film opens and theaters this Friday.

Tomorrow on Fresh Air, our guest will be New Yorker, staff writer,

Gia Tolentino. She coined the term "Instagram Face." Now she's back with a warning. Plastic surgery has become so pervasive and undetectable. It's quietly changing what we think a real human face looks like. Her article, "Our Plastic Surgery Nightmare"

Dills into what happens when we can no longer trust our own eyes. I hope you'll join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's Executive Producer is Sam Briger.

Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Stanishewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Meyers and Rebodenado Lauren Crenzel Theresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Theya Challener,

Sizzan Yucundi and Abelman and Nico Gonzalez-Wisler. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivinezper. Roberta Chorot directs the show. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.

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Developments in Ukraine, Iran, with Ebola, but also how British beavers are fighting the effects of climate change. So we said the beavers can do at probably a fraction of the cost. Certainly more sustainably. Listen to state-of-the-world every weekday.

On the npr app or wherever you get your podcasts.