Malala Yousafzai

pockets to say but I think you should listen to my podcast.

“It's called "It's been a Minute" and I love it and I think you will too.”

Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the "It's been a Minute" podcast from NPR today. This is fresh air, I'm Terry Gross. As remarkable as it is that my guests Malala use FSI won the Nobel Peace Prize when she was 17. There are a remarkable ways she's been

living her life since then. Let's start with a famous part of her story. She was born in 1997 and grew up in a remote region of Pakistan's Swat Valley near the Afghanistan border. In 2008, after the Taliban invaded her town, terrorizing the people, a bandgirl's education. She publicly spoke out for her right and the right of all girls

“to go to school. As pay back in 2012 when she was 15, she was shot in the head by a Taliban”

gunman. She was flown to a hospital in England where she continues to live. Her recovery was miraculous. It's when I read her recent memoir "Finding My Way" that I learned how the bullet changed the course of her life, thrusting her into a new culture, changing her in ways that didn't quite fit her public image as an inspirational hero and top student, and sometimes even challenged her own self-image. When she was admitted

to Oxford University, a dream come true. She wanted to live the life of a teenager and find time to make friends have fun, have adventures, including jumping from her dorm roof to the campus bell tower. She defied some of her culture's traditions and her parents expectations from how she dressed to whom she married. At the same time, she was experiencing

PTSD and panic attacks for the first time, recovering from her multiple surgeries and continuing

to raise money for the foundation she co-founded with her father, to advocate and raise money for girls' education and places where that is banned. All this took time from her college studies, and she felt like a fraud, a symbol of female education, who was barely passing some of her classes. Another thing I learned from her book and from hearing her speak is that she's very self-aware, introspective, and funny. I spoke with her last Tuesday

evening in front of an audience at WHYY, where she was given this year's life long learning award. Hello, it's such an honor to have you here tonight. I'm so excited to have the opportunity to talk with you. It's so nice to be here. Thank you so much. Thank

you for the honor and good evening everyone. It's always so nice to be in this beautiful

warm welcoming city. So, you and I were different generations from very different cultures. There's so much in your book that I really related to in a much more insignificant way than your life. But one of the things I really related to was if you're lucky enough to go to college and it's away from home, you have a chance to figure out who you are independent of your family, independent of the friends who knew you when you were a child, and you can grow

and transform and take risks, try out different selves, and figure it out. But that can mean to find your parents' expectations, which I had to do in my own little insignificant way, and you had to do in a pretty major way, because you were in a different culture and you were young, you were a teenager. And when you defy your parents, there's a price you pay. You know, there are the people who love you most in the world, and you love them, but you're rejecting

some of their values and going your own way, and you risk hurting them, you risk creating a rift that won't heal. I related to that. So my question is, which is more difficult,

“defying your parents, or standing up to the towel about? I think it wasn't just the pressure”

of my parents. It was the pressure of this whole community that they feel they're present, even though we were thousands of miles away from Pakistan, but they were still worried about what would our relatives think if they see me wearing jeans in college, if they see me with some friends enjoying some music in college or climbing a rooftop in college. And for them, it was always this anxiety that when rumors start about women, it is like the biggest dishonor you can face

in a community, just to share one story, which is something I shared in the book. One day, you know, I went rowing in college, I was trying new things, and I said, let's give rowing a try. That was

my first and last experience trying rowing, never went back to it. But I was just wearing jeans

and it caused this huge social media backlash where people were criticizing me. From the Pakistanis, South Asian diaspora, for wearing jeans, they thought it was not Islamic enough. This was a against our culture that I wasn't wearing traditional clothes, that somehow I wasn't just an ambassador for girls' education, but I was also an ambassador of the culture, the faith, and everything else, that I had to meet everyone's expectation, that I was somehow upsetting everybody. And I remember

my parents banishing and they are asking me if I would issue a statement, defending myself, I would say something, and I told my parents, no, I'm not going to respond to this at all. I said that when my brothers moved to the UK, they switched to jeans right away. Nobody had any problem with it, but as soon as a girl decided to wear a pair of jeans, it became a whole issue. So I said,

“you know, the best way for me to respond to this is to keep wearing jeans. And yeah, and it's also”

about women making choices for themselves. It should not be someone else deciding it for them. And you are also right in your book, and this is something I also related to,

that you felt with your parents, if you didn't draw the line, that you would always be compromising

and giving in. And I'm sure a lot of people listening to this relate to that as well. But again, we didn't have a whole culture attacking us for it. Yeah, I mean, it was hard, and sometimes the best, you know, perfection for me was that my parents were just not with me at college. You know, it's like, they just don't know, and that's the best thing ever. I loved my college time because I was away from home, and this was the first time

that I had been on my own. And I was so curious about life, and I know that these things sound

“quite basic, like climbing a roof or hanging out with friends or staying up late. These are not”

like some big crazy things. But to me, it felt like I was climbing a mountain that this was something huge that I was doing in my life because I was making my own choices. And I felt that nobody was watching me. And that was such a relief. But yeah, when my parents read the book, then they found out that there was quite a lot happening. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about what your education was like. And I'll preface this by saying, you describe your father as a feminist

based before he knew the word feminism. Yes. And he believed in girls education, and he wanted to teach. So he created a school that started with three students. That's the school you went to when you were a girl. What was your education like? Because you say that when you got to England and went to high school there and then college, that you were taught to memorize facts

and not critical thinking. It's suddenly you were being asked to do critical thinking. So

what did you learn? Like what was what was your education like when you were young? In Pakistan, it's very focused on sciences and then learning English and math. A lot of it is like Islamic studies, social studies, Pakistan studies. But that was about it. It's very textbook focused. So in Pakistan, by age like 15, I had only read 819 books outside my school curriculum and it's only because somebody gifted those books to me. So I read the alchemist and like in a

one or two other books like that and I was so proud of myself. When I moved to the UK, I realized that kids have big libraries in their schools and they're encouraged to read fiction and you know, books outside their school curriculum. I also found out in the UK that they actually had science labs. So they were not just learning about an experiment by just reading about the experiment. Like this chemical meets this chemical and then this thing happens and you're

like I wonder what that looks like. Kids here can actually see what it looks like. So when I would be in a biology class in the UK and in a chemistry class and I could see these things happening right in front of my eyes. I just wish like more and more kids in Pakistan can also see that experiments and like you know it's it's like such a privilege. So your mother didn't go to school.

“She went to school I think for one day and decided her friends were in school and she'd rather play”

with her friends than go to school and she was a literate. How did she feel about you becoming an

education activist on behalf of girls education when she never went to school herself? Of course my

mother is very proud of the work that I am doing and that my father is doing and I do believe that it is her support and her strength behind us that helped both my father and I to keep on fighting. But I saw her real resilience and commitment to education when we moved to the UK because now she was in a completely different country, a new culture, a new language and she suddenly became a dependent on

at the grocery store, she needed somebody with her to speak in English and she felt very helpless.

“So she started taking English classes and she's been learning English for the past seven or eight”

years and it's always such a beautiful moment for me at home when I'm helping my mom with her

homework because usually it is you know parents helping their kids but in our house it's a daughter helping her mother and it's such a beautiful moment she loves her education. I mean she's like a role model to students out there. She never misses her home where she impresses her teachers and now she can call a cab on her own. She can go to a grocery store on her own. She can manage a doctor's appointment. She's no longer dependent on any family member and that's because of her education.

So you know your father as I mentioned founded a school was a school you went to so he was passionate about education and passionate about it for girls and when the towel band came and took over your area they had a deadline for when they were going to close down with schools. There's the 15th of January 2009 and you attended school until the last day even though

“I think you're only allowed to go up to fourth grade and you were in fifth grade.”

Yes and we were you know we would wear just our home clothes we could no longer wear

our school uniform. It would give you a way. Yeah we said like the towel band should never know

that girls are daring to go to a school. We would wear these long hefty like scarves and just you know wrap them around our body so we could hide our school bag like any bag will sort of hide so there's no proof of us daring to walk to a school and we said that if they ever ask us what grade we were in let's say they found out we'll just tell them we were in fourth grade they could never prove it. So we said you know we're just we're still like little girls and but girls were risking

their lives to be in a classroom. Right so during that period I think this is during this period a journalist from the BBC after a volunteer from your school to keep a journal that the BBC could draw on or publish I'm not sure which and one girl volunteered and then her father came the next day and said I'm not allowing her to do this it's too risky she could get killed and then your father says to you "Malala would you like to volunteer?" How did you feel about that? I'm asking

you to volunteer when you knew it was a great risk I mean it was an anonymous pseudonymous journal you wrote an under a pseudonym but how did you feel knowing you were taking on this risk and this was before you got shot by a Taliban? Yes I was 11 years old and when I heard that so young yes yes how could you even comprehend the risk that you were taking? You know my honest reaction to a question like this is that like I wish I was a child I wish I knew nothing about these things I

wish like I didn't have to write a blog I wish I didn't have to become an activist but that was the lived reality of girls at eleven years old they're telling you that just because you are a girl you cannot step into a classroom you cannot have an education and I know that you know like when when I look back I'm like yes I was a crazy thing that I did I put my life at risk but at the time what scared me more was a life without an education as a girl it terrified me and I you know like

think about women's struggle for equality for justice everywhere around the world you know we are we're fighting to protect ourselves against violence against oppressions women are literally being murdered and killed you know that's how extreme it is and I said you know education is that pathway that hope that I can have that I can have a better future so the best thing I can do is actually speak out and see if there's you know some hope that things would change for us looking back at

your eleven year old self and your father back then do you think he did the right thing and asking you to volunteer? I think he did the right thing I am I am so grateful to have a father

who never stopped me from doing what I wanted to do and it wasn't just one BBC blog I wanted to

“speak to every media platform I wanted to speak to every journalist and I remember that my father”

would always tell me before every interview that don't mention the Taliban don't name anybody and just just focus on talking points about going to school and not be like yes dad and then out going speak to the journalist and say everything I'm like you know it is the Taliban they're not letting us to be in school and and I would name them I would name them I'm like what are our leaders doing about this Taliban leader and that Taliban leader so sometimes you don't listen to what your

father tell you you actually see what they do and what they say and you follow that tell us story of

the late 1800s and she is participating in the second Anglo Afghan war the Afghan soldiers are

“about to walk away they're losing the battle and she walks up to the top of this mountain and she”

raises her voice and tells the soldiers that if you do not struggle today you will live the rest of your life in shame so she encourages the soldiers that this is truly a day where they can prove their honor and they can fight for their freedom and supposedly that's you know how the the story goes that the soldiers fight back and she loses her life at that battle so the name of Malala I of my one so she's a heroine from Afghanistan is very famous in our personal community

the actual literal meaning of the name is grief stricken or sad but we don't go with that we just go with the good meaning yeah what message did it send to you that you were named after a martyr after a teenage girl who inspired fighters to keep fighting and died herself in that battle I was just imagining that battle happening today and this is a battle that we are fighting for children to have access to education we're not fighting through swords we're not fighting through

weapons this is a fight through books and pens and we want every child to have the opportunity to be able to go to school so this is this is different and my goal is that you know this the soldiers of today are like all of us all of us to come together and ensure that we help every child have access to education I will remind you she dies in the battle so far I'm doing okay and yeah and

“I you know my story didn't go that way and I'm very grateful for that I think it's when you were”

living in the area where your parents grew up which is very remote and very mountainous I think it was then that you were on a school bus when you were shot yeah it was in 2012 that that they you know attempted to kill me and you weren't expecting that right you didn't think that you

would be a target it wasn't that I never pictured it I had pictured it many times that this could

happen I had pictured it at school I had pictured it at a in my school bus I had pictured it on the street where I used to walk to school I knew that the Taliban could do anything and I used to wonder like could I save myself like you know how could I make them understand that I'm actually not a threat I actually want education for myself for girls even for their children when the you know when the day arrived it was the 9th of October 2012 it was a normal school day for me and

you know when we when we were driving back to our home in our school bus that's when like you know

“everything pauses in my memory I don't remember anything I had different visuals different flashbacks”

but I am I never sure what I really saw and what I am sort of picturing because of what I heard

but my best friend still me that story because they were on the school bus with me and my very best friend Mooney by she was sitting on my right and she tells me this story that Tugan when stopped the school bus and this one guy he walks to the to the back of the bus and asks who is Malala and I was not covering my face and he looked at me and then he pointed again at my head and pulled the trigger and I asked my friend I said like did I scream did I say anything how was I reacting

in that moment and she said you just held my hand really tight you were silent you just you were looking at that person but you were not saying anything and you just held my hand really tight that I could feel the pain for days and then you fell into my lap so that's you know they also went through a lot of trauma because you know I was recovering from the Taliban bullet injury it had caused facial paralysis hearing loss and swelling in my head as well so I had to you know

replace the skull piece with the titanium plate I had to go through a lot of recovery things and surgery is many surgery surgeries but my friends actually saw what happened your friend O'Neighboh who was the one sitting next to you on the bus she later told you she was covered in blood after you got shot and she really thought that she must have gotten shot too because there was so much blood on her and she was traumatized she had nightmares all the time

so I always talked to my friends you know I asked her for the same story again and again and I'm

“like tell me what happened that day and every time I hear it I am like I just I can't believe we”

we all saw it that day so I also really admired their resilience we're listening to the interview I recorded with Malala use of sigh last week at an event where she received WHY's lifelong learning award her recent memoir is called "Finding My Way" we'll hear more of the interview after a short break I'm Terry Gross and this is fresh air your father has said and there's there's a documentary about you called he named Malala and in that documentary he says

that he felt like you and he were so close it says if you shared a soul and I'm wondering as we were discussing early when you tried to become independent if it was especially hard to become independent of your father knowing how profoundly close you were so close that he felt that you shared the same soul and knowing that he felt that way for you to become independent

“of him what you need to do when you grow up not to stop loving him not to have him stop loving”

you but to be your own person to practice activism your own way to be a woman and not just a

daughter that transition has happened like I remember my my first flight without my dad they were

like so many moments like my first trip without my dad and you know he's been he's been watching me he's been very supportive and when I got married so he was speaking to my husband usher and he was telling my husband that now I am assigning this role of like you know looking after my daughter to you and he said just remember like one thing here's her lip balm just carry her lip balm with you all the time that's all you need so you know in in these recent years I have

also felt a lot closer to my mom which wasn't the case when I was growing up I was very much closer to my dad because of course you were supportive and all of that but in our community if you are a girl you wanted to be like a man because you had more rights more privilege and that was an

“ideal world for me like just being like your father I think we can't talk about education without”

also talking about marriage because part of the reason why you wanted to be educated is you didn't want to be given away to a man at a young age and especially when the Taliban took over they were looking for wives and so families were marrying off their daughters very early like 10 11 12 to prevent them from being taken for a wife by a member of the Taliban and you say that at age 9 you refused to learn how to cook because you thought like what kind of crazy man would want a

wife who can't cook so you would determine not to work but disappointment for the mother-in-law

you know what did my day one what a marriage being to you I hated it and I said that I would never

get married and even in college I was telling my friends that I will never get married at least till I'm like you know 34 you have like I'll just consider it later but like I'm not going to even think about marriage and I discourage all of my friends from getting married so I was the first one in my friends group to get married when your parents found out that you were going to get married your father was okay your mother was really upset she insisted that you had to marry some

body who was a passion who spoke a passion and your husband always from Pakistan is not a passion so he's from Punjab in Pakistan so they speak Punjabi language and Urdu language and I'm from this other side of Pakistan from Havel Bhaktun Raj and we speak Pashto language and we have more languages in Pakistan like Sindhi Balochi and you know we are a very diverse country but my mom said I you know I'm just very upset I don't like this guy why can't he speak

our language and I said mom I'm supposed to speak with him every day you know like and I said it would be a good opportunity for you to practice your English you know you can you can practice your English with him and then she eventually agreed so at some point people found out that you were in a relationship and there was so much controversy in in Pakistan that you were getting married in a way that showed equality which was like anti tradition anti Islam I mean this

what was the occasion for all that we're even like legislators we're debating what to do

“about what you'd said oh this is when you said you didn't believe in marriage it just came to”

me yes that was that was a British work piece yes and it happened six months before our marriage yeah so I was interviewed by this journalist and you know I had just graduated from college I'm still dating us and I'm still very confused about marriage and this journalist asked me from British folk what do you think about marriage do you want to get married now I was like I don't want to get married I was like in my head I'm like who told you I'm thinking about it so I got

really defensive and I said I don't know why people have to get married you know can it just be like an open relationship you didn't mean like an open marriage where you both have lots of a partners you meant you meant like I had no idea what I meant I just said it because I was like just why marriage why these traditions why these ceremonies why are we expected to take these roles and why these expectations and it can't we just be together can you just be together you know

technically you know it was it was just me saying our loud word was on my mind and then when that interview came out it was a brilliant interview but some people just highlighted those lines and they started this whole debate that I am against marriage I am against Islamic marriage I'm

against Nika all of these traditions and the culture and everything I'm like I never said that

I literally never said that I'm just asking a question and any 23 year old should be allowed to ask these questions about anything in life marriage, boyfriends, relationships and then six months later I got married so they got that answer. We're listening to the interview I recorded last week with Malala Usepsi at the event where she received WHY's lifelong learning award her recent memoir is called Finding My Way there's more of the interview after her break

this is fresh air. So let's get to the flashback so one of the things you did in college is you took some hits from a bomb at the encouragement of your friends and then you had this

really bad flashback to something you didn't even remember in the first place which was getting shot

“by the Taliban gunman. Would it be triggering if I asked you to describe it?”

No not at all and I want to share this story because I wish somebody had told me that this is something that could have happened. That post-traumatic stress that this was a thing and it happened to me seven years after that attack that's something that I could not fathom I said I was okay this whole time why is it happening to me now so when I tried that long like times slowed down and I felt like I was stuck I couldn't move and I was reliving the Taliban attack once again I

thought it was all happening and I couldn't understand if I was alive or not and it was it was a really terrible experience and I started getting panic attacks after that and that's when I realized that I actually need help so I started sharing with my friends as well that I was not feeling okay I was not enjoying the socially events or anything and then still took me a few months and then a friend of mine suggested that I start seeing a therapist and that's when I started

getting therapy I had I had never received a therapy before. Well you said that even in the

pastue language there's no word for anxiety I can't imagine that yeah so it must have been really terrifying and also did a challenge your own identity you don't always thought of yourself as like I'm really brave everybody tells me I'm a brave I don't I don't remember the experience of being shot I'm still not afraid and suddenly you were afraid to go to sleep you were afraid to dream you were afraid of a lot of things how did I challenge your sense of yourself I could feel very

disappointed with myself that I was no longer living up to the expectation of being brave and courageous but I had to unlearn a lot this whole time that actually true bravery is when you keep fighting for what you believe in even when you are scared so it helped me think very differently. Do you still have flashbacks and panic attacks? Yes and I think like I tried to look after myself

“and it has just helped me understand that if I want to do my work in the best way possible I have to”

make sure that I look after my mental health and my physical health I'm raising awareness about therapy as well that you know we should get therapy and especially for you know women from

mushroom community encouraging it in those places as well and in therapy sessions like of course

“like those things really help you but then I also thought it's also about the physical health”

I thought like if you are an activist you're not allowed to get you know sleep or you're not allowed to eat well or not allowed to look after yourself because it's just all about work work and work and then I realized I was actually not doing that job well because I was not in the best shape so when I started looking after my physical health as well I started going to the gym now I do weightlifting and that's great running yeah and when it's leg day my husband and I go together

so leg days my favorite day and he's literally crying but because you know I'm like we have to lift heavier weights so he he doesn't like it but I love it yeah so you go to Oxford University

you're still recovering from surgeries the system more surgeries to come you were schooled at first

and your father's school in a fairly remote region of Pakistan you didn't get the kind of education that most Oxford students get and yet you are held to the same standard and I understand why the leaders of the university would not want to make like you a special student with a different standard and you probably wouldn't have wanted that for yourself either however it seems to me so unfair you who were you know nearly killed who was still recovering from that

psychologically emotionally physically and who didn't have the same education as the other students were held to the same standard in the same timetable and you were following behind you were used to being like really smart now it's part of your identity and you were like the girl activist standing up for education and suddenly you were barely passing your class and nearly feeling what do you think I maybe could have done to help you during that time or to better understand

what you were going through it just strikes me as being very I wish I had spoken to you back then so so we could have written it to the university at the time I had a lot of work that I need you to do for Malala Farms education advocacy so I remember in just like a little bit to say you had donated your yeah with your Nobel Prize money yes you and your father created of fun to support girls schools yes so you had to keep vigilant about that in addition to all the

“other stuff that I mentioned yeah so like I remember that week and half in college when one day”

I was in Lebanon with Tim Cook where they announced grants to support Malala Farms work which was very important because with those grants we could then help girls in Lebanon and Pakistan and Afghanistan and Nigeria and then in a few days I was at Davos and I had you know shared the stage with

Justin Chudo and from those conversations we helped secure like you know more than two billion

dollars for girls education you know like it was it was a big commitment for financing for girls education and then a week later it was like another event where I was you know sharing my story and all of that so to me it felt like all of these things were important and I thought I could manage it but when my teacher saw my performance she was very concerned she said you are behind on your essays you're not attending the lectures and you will literally fail if you

keep doing it like this so she wrote a letter to you know to everybody in my circle and said

“Malala will not be allowed to travel during college time like you have to be in college like”

just because we don't take your attendance doesn't mean you can travel to Lebanon or all of these places and I also realized that there was a whole academic support system at college. I was hesitant to consider it because I thought I might be the imposter here I might be the only one who's getting it but when I restart they told me that students have challenges because of different reasons and it's completely okay to ask for help because this college is it's built

to help you learn so what do they do to her like just help me understand how to better prepare for my essays how to divide my time how to do the reading in a way that's more efficient plan the essay before jumping into the reading all of these small tips that really helped me and then I improved in my studies I did not become like an excellent top students right away I didn't really become that student but I was doing okay and I was just happy we're doing okay where I was

having good time with my friends I was socializing and I was also managing my studies as well I was in the end very happy with that. Did you accept the fact that you weren't like in the

like I wished in an ideal world you want all of it you want to be that unicorn who's just good at everything is getting a top grade and having a social life and getting good sleep in all of that but

“in Oxford they tell you you can't have it all you have to really choose and I thought if there's”

one thing I were to pick in these colleges that would be to have a social life I did not have a friends in high school I had only made one friend and that's because she fell out with her best friend so I just filled in the gap because I was so new to the culture even though I could

communicate in English but it wasn't my first language I was still speaking the textbook English

I was still familiarizing myself with the phrases and any of these like trending words that they use and I felt like I was I was not cool enough to make friends I thought my story was very boring boring and I thought a Nobel Prize can't get you friends so yeah and I also even at school I ran for the head girl position because I was working really hard I wanted to be part of every club every society so when I heard about the school head girl position I ran for that and I lost and that

like made me so upset because you know like you want to be embraced and accepted by your college

students and you know like by your school friends it means so much because I you know still young

or still very young even though I received the Nobel Prize before I had even completed my high school but in the end I'm still 17 and you know you just you just want to be in the cool friends group at the same time you were 15 when you won the Nobel no 17 17 okay yeah a bit a bit too late where are you expecting that as a possibility no did you know you were like among the

“people being considered of course it was in the news but I remember that day when the announcement”

was supposed to be made and my father said that I should skip my school day because what if they

announced and I said dad like everybody who thinks that I'm gonna win this is crazy and I said

I am going to go to my school and I wasn't my chemistry class and my school's deputy had teacher walked in and she called me outside and she usually calls you when you are in trouble so I was praying for myself and then she told me that I had won the Nobel Peace Prize and it was like the most insane thing I could ever hear from a deputy from a school teacher and then I was told that you should go and like do a press conference and go home and I said like

no I went back to a physics class and I finished my school day and I said if you get a Nobel Peace

“Prize for education you have to finish your school day did that make you cool and school because you said”

you weren't cool just for a day seriously didn't know it was like I died down the next day I was like give me another award a Grammy next or something the Oscars who knows we're listening to the interview I recorded last week with Malala use FSI at the event where she received WHY's lifelong learning award her recent memoir is called Finding My Way there's more of the interview after a break this is fresh air this is fresh air let's get back to the interview I recorded last week with Malala

use FSI and friend of an audience at WHY where fresh air is produced her recent memoir is called finding my way getting back to the talent band I feel like you've won and you've lost you've lost in the sense that the talent band or back in power in Afghanistan and that's very upsetting and you've also lost faith in political leaders because as you say like they all wanted it photo ops with you and praise your work and your bravery and so on but when you called them when you

were trying to get your people to safety it was only women leaders who helped you and the men didn't and it made you more cynical and you learned that change is harder than it seems yeah so what is the lesson for you about how difficult change really is in terms of what you can contribute to change? witnessing the the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan has been the most

angle is going through when she cannot imagine entering a classroom but in this time I have also

“learned that giving up is not an option you have to keep fighting and for me it was just like”

starting with something I thought just do whatever you can we have been supporting underground secret schools for girls because afghan girls are not giving up on learning and they're risking their lives but they're there to listen to lessons on the radio they're secretly passing cassette tapes to each other it is the resilience of these afghan girls that inspires me and I care about this because it is important not just for women in Afghanistan but women everywhere you know the Taliban are

erasing women from public life but we need to do everything we can to make them visible and

ensuring that there is a protection for women in the international law it gives me hope that these crimes that the Taliban are committed would not be repeated against women and girls anywhere in the world so I said you lost in the sense that the Taliban took over again in Afghanistan but you won in the sense that they didn't kill you you survived and you've gone on to oppose them in so many ways many of which you've enumerated during this conversation and you've raised

billions of dollars to support what they're against girls education rights for women

“I wish I could agree with you but for me when I think about millions of afghan women and girls”

who still have to live under the Taliban and an 11 year old girl is terrified just as I was and they are not just like limiting them they're they're threatening them they're punishing them they're putting them in prisons it scares me and for me true when is when it doesn't happen to me and to any girl in the world I will qualify what I said and say it wasn't the complete victory yes but you're survival

and your activism is a victory yes I want to say the Taliban I always say like they're

short the wrong person they made a big mistake so we're on this journey to ensure that we change

“the world for guns well I just want to say I think you're really an inspiration for the work”

that you do for the risk that you take but also believing in living a full life that welcomes joy and love and fun you know being a full human being while participating in your activism thank you all for your support and it's truly an honor to be here and to share the stage with you as well and I just want to say one thing to filly go birds thank you thank you my interview with Malala use of sigh was recorded last week on stage at W. H. Y. Y. Y.

which you received W. H. Y. Y. is lifelong learning award Malala's recent memoir is titled "Finding My Way" our thanks to Nancy Steski, Evette Murray and Gianna Tripody B. Say for producing this event and to everyone else who helped make it happen including audio engineer Charlie Kire who is edited for broadcast on fresh air by Teresa Madden and Susan Yucundi tomorrow on fresh air Oscar Isaac talks about season two of Netflix's beef where he plays a country club manager who's

polished exterior is hiding a crumbling marriage and a financial secret. He'll also reflect on his golden globe-nominated role as Victor Frankenstein and what playing a man with no constraints taught him about his own I hope you'll join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are

produced and edited by Phyllis Myers and reboldenado Lauren Crenzel Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, they a challenger Susan Yucundi and Abamun and Nico Gonzalez-Wisler. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nespas, Roberta Shoreop directs the show, our co-host is Tonya Mosley, I'm Terry Gross.