Episode 577: Jon Gordon: The Psychology of Optimism, Better Habits, and Stronger Leadership

Press it! Welcome to Habits and Hustle, where I sit down with the world's biggest thinkers, entrepreneurs, athletes and experts, to uncover the habits and strategies that actually move the needle in your health, happiness, and success. And today, I'm sitting down with John Gordon, one of the most influential leadership authors

and speakers in the world. He has worked with everyone CEOs, professional athletes, championship teams, and some of the biggest organizations in business and sports. He is the author of 32 books, including the Energy Bus, which was rejected by 30 publishers

before selling more than 3 million copies.

And his latest book now is called The Power of Positive Habits. In this episode, we get into what positivity actually means, why negative thoughts do not deserve your automatic trust, and how leaders create strong cultures, the habit you need to build before you build any other habit, and why one destructive pattern can cancel out all the good habits you're trying to create.

We also talk about why optimism may matter more than discipline, and how likability gives you the ability to challenge people without losing them. This conversation will make you rethink positivity, leadership, confidence, discipline, and the way you speak to yourself when things get hard. What John shares in this episode will give you practical tools to stop playing your thoughts,

run your life, lead people more effectively, and build habits that actually stick. So let's dive in. And Hustle, do we have a treat for you? We have John Gordon on the podcast. Let me just quickly read his bio here, okay?

John Gordon is one of the most influential and sought after leadership authors and speakers today. He's a consultant to numerous leaders, CEOs, NFL, NBA, and MLB coaches, championship teams, and high performers, and an inspirational teacher who has helped millions of people have a more positive mindset.

He is the author of 32 books, including 19 best sellers and five children's books. His books include The Timeless Classic, The Energy Bus, which is sold over 3 million copies. The carpenter, which was a top five business book of the year, training camp, the power of positive leadership, the power of a positive team, the one truth, and his latest release, the power of positive habits.

“This is going to be a podcast you definitely want to listen to if you want to basically”

uptick your life in any way possible. And these are proven strategies that will help you grow exponentially.

So stay tuned for this one, and thank you, John, because I'm telling you, I've never seen

anyone write this many books and be that busy. I mean, I don't know how you do it. Is it's chatchipy tea, like writing your books at this point? No, I was writing before chat GPT was even around. My wife will often ask me advice for her post, and she calls me John GPT.

Really? So I've been writing for a long time. When I started writing in 2006, this book, The Energy Bus, came to me on a walk. And I didn't even know I could write a story, but I got a vision for this story. And I sat down, and I just started writing this book, and in three and a half weeks, I

was done. And again, I didn't know I could write a story, but I did. It was rejected by 30 publishers. Well, eventually, a publisher took it on John Walley, and sounds it came out. And after five years, it became a best seller.

After five years? Took five years. To become a best seller. I have it's an hustle. I love that.

Okay, wait, before we even go into the, because I want to talk about the energy bus, because that's like, like a massive hit, we're going to do these shots for Madeline. Okay. This will keep you, John. Super focused and very alert.

Okay.

“These are, there's magic mind, is this something that she should be concerned about?”

No, no, no. Like magic mushroom. No, it's not magic. It's actually, it's actually a gun. It's actually a gun, duh.

It's mind, maybe. Okay.

It's just going to be keeping you, it's basically helped to look like a stay focused, and it's basically

performance based. And this is why I want to do it with you, because you are like the, the, the, the, king of all high performance. So how do I not do this shot with you? All right.

Let's do it. Ready? Cheers. Hmm. This one's also caffeine free.

It's good, right? It's very good. Hmm. Okay. Love it.

So now you're going to be super locked in, and I want to hear all about this energy

“bus because that was your, is that kind of what put you on the map?”

It did. Okay. When that book came out, people started reading it, and not a lot initially. Right. But those that did started to bring me into speak, and then after that, I got more and

more speaking engagements from that sports teams, corporations, all from that one book.

That one book.

“back to the beginning because because to become now like you are like a bear you're like”

one of the OGs in speaking like leadership in leadership like you know people know Tony Rob is obviously and you have other ones that kind of kind of sprout up here and there but I'd like to know how you're like what your background is to even become to get to that place. I only think one guy probably John Maxwell has worked with more organizations more teams. That was the guy I was thinking of. Yeah more school districts, but I only think John has worked

with his many school districts and sports teams as I have. So really I've reached a lot of leaders over the years in terms of just going to work with their leaders, their organizations, their teams. And so it started with with me actually struggling and figuring out what what I need to do with my life because I lost my job during the calm crash. In my 20s that was an entrepreneur and I opened up a Mose Southwest Grill franchise in my early 30s because I literally lost my job during the

calm crash. I put these investors together had a hundred thousand shares. I thought I was going to make my fortune and the company went south when bankrupt. So then you just saw it. So one day you're like I'm just going to write this book energy bus. What would happen when I lost lost the job and I'm like what am I doing my life? How am I going to support my family? Right. Okay. And I was I was really struggling and I was being really negative to my life and she had

enough of my negativity. She said if you don't change, we're over because she was going to leave. I had to change. I'm going to stay married. And so I began researching ways I could be more positive during that time because I was naturally negative, miserable, negative, mad, said I'm 100% asking as you do. So I was born with anxiety. Yeah, you said it earlier. That's true. Exactly.

And like basically you're probably like nervous a lot. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. And so I was my job.

Yeah. Oh, now I call myself a pessimistic activist. That's right. Okay. So I don't know how to pay the bills. And I don't know what I'm going to do next. But I know I want to be more positive. So I began researching ways I could be more positive. I began writing about what I was doing. I began a weekly positive tip. And I had five subscribers at the time. My mother, my brother. And this was before the social media. Right. I had one of the first eating newsletters out there

using constant contact to send my newsletter out. And again, people were reading it and then

“started to share it. And that's what got me doing this work. Next, you know, I served writing”

books. And I wrote the energy bus in 2006. But I said, you know, in my 20s, I was a mover and shaker. I opened up a bar 24 and bucket Atlanta when I was when I was young, 24. I was very involved in the community and nonprofit organization. I started called the Phoenix organization.

We raised money for youth-focused charities. So I always had the mind of an entrepreneur.

So when I became a writer and speaker for me, it was like, okay, I have this mine of an entrepreneur, a former athlete. So I naturally fit in terms of speaking and writing to business people. But how do you become a speaker like that? Because again, like, if you haven't done it before, you write a book. Okay. A lot of people can write a book. Like, a lot of people write books. That doesn't make them a naturally gifted speaker. Did you practice it? Like, because you're a

big thing. Like, when I was doing a lot of research on you, is like, they're actually comparing you with me a little bit in terms of like, are, well, be happy. Well, not not because I'm like you, but it was more about messaging. Like, I talk a lot about action and grit. And they're like, they're like, you talk, and then they're like, John talks a lot about the power of positivity, positivity. And like, what it takes in a, in a, you know, how culture is so important,

it trumps talent. So like, you know, how that happens when you start going down the AI tracks.

And I always felt, I found it interesting. I wanted to ask you, because where did this mess,

is it because you were a naturally more negative or pessimistic person that you kind of, you know, kind of really kind of double down on the positivity train in a way, you know, you know, kind of to, to be one of the success skills that made you who you are. Like, how did

“you kind of go from, I think it's ironic that this is my life's work, because I am naturally negative.”

Right. So I had to work at being positive. And as I began doing it myself, that quest to get better myself led to a mission to help others get better. And as I began writing about it, and then speaking on it, I began seeing the impact it was having. Like, I was born to share this message on positivity, but not polyaniposity. Tell me what your message is. It's not polyaniposity. It's not about seeing the world through rose colored glasses. It's

knowing that you have the power to overcome the thorns. And it's not about ignoring reality. It's about maintaining optimism, bleep, and faith in order to create a better reality. It's knowing that there's going to be a lot of adversity. There will be challenges. There will be obstacles. But you have the resilience, the belief, the mindset to overcome.

And then that positive mindset helps you become a more positive leader. A more positive leader

“is better able to lead their team. And what happened was I initially was speaking a lot on positivity”

initially. And as I began working with all these different companies and organizations, I began to see leadership needed this more than anyone. And a leader needed to be able to transfer their belief, their optimism. A leader needed to develop the relationships of their of their team to be able to be strong and united and connected. They needed to commit more to their team. So I began to see how these leaders needed to become a positive leader to make a greater impact.

And I often say positive leadership is the competitive advantage. Like Alan Malaylee, when he

turned around Ford, they were losing $13, $14 billion. He defined his leadership style as

positive leadership. He was able to turn around the company because of his optimism, his resilience, his mindset. But also the way he led his team and built a great team. A negative leader will not build a great team. A pessimist will not change the world. It's the optimist that changed the world. When you're investing in companies and leaders, you want someone who believes they can actually change the world. But also, we'll take the action in order to do it. So for me out there, it's this

positivity mindset leadership. Then teamwork, a positive team, a positive culture. And of course, positive habits and action. It all goes hand in hand. I've become an expert in culture, worked with so many organizations and teams. Actually, I have a whole culture-building process. I sit down with a leader and I help them create their culture literally from scratch. If they don't have a culture, I'll help them create it from scratch. If they have one,

I'll help them make sure that it's actually strong. And the core values are what they really should be because a lot of times they have these core values that are buzzwords and a bunch of jargon, but they don't mean anything to anyone. So I can literally help someone create their core values, their culture from scratch. I'll do that. On the mindset side, I can help every leader, every team, every athlete, perform at a higher level because I've become an expert in the mindset.

There's a lot of books on mindset, but a lot of people don't understand how thoughts really work. So I also go into that from a mindset perspective. How do you know? So this is what I wanted to know. So how do you know these things? How do you know these things? You're not like all of this, right? You're not, right? Which you're degree in? My degree is in government and economics. Okay. Human ecology and I have a masters in teaching and the funny thing is, you know,

it's one of the masters in teaching. Okay, from Cornell. No, I have a degree from Cornell and then masters from Emory. Oh, teaching. So you do, okay. Yeah, I taught for I taught school for a year. I often joke when I speak to educators and then I opened up a bar after that. Yeah. Yeah. So teaching to me to open up a bar. Exactly. But I could still, I still consider myself a teacher

“because at heart, that's why I am. People say that I take complex subjects and topics and then”

make them simple and practical. They can act on. And that's what I, what I love to do. But no, I'm not a psychologist and people say to me all the time, are you a psychologist? No, but

it's amazing how many psychologists actually read my books. Well, right, because I may do and use them

and they're practice. I was going to say, you know, like sometimes it's also people just have a knack of talent and then you've honed it in craft. You've obviously honed it over all these years. When you first started doing this 30 years ago, what, and what were you speaking about different things than you're speaking about now? How is it evolved over the last three-day question? Well, talk about knack. My biological father is a psychotherapist and social worker. And he didn't

raise me, but he's my biological father. And I coach and help a lot of people. Right. And it's not therapy, but I take them from wound to healing. I really help them move from wound to healing.

“My brother is a chief marketing officer of a company. And he all went, do I know the company?”

Gallagher Bassett. I don't know. It's a subsidiary of Gallagher, the very large insurance company. And we know Gallagher, massive company. But he's a chief marketing officer for Gallagher Bassett. And they do a lot of great work. But he also is a coach. Like he coaches leaders all the time. It is work that he does. So it's funny we both have that knack to do that. And so in many ways, I think life prepares you for the work that you're meant to do. But also spending time with

leaders. Also, I have done a lot of research. And as I'm working and writing books, I'll get new ideas. And I'll get new thoughts. And then sometimes I'll be walking. And an idea will come to me. I was walking in Santa Monica a few years ago when the idea for the one truth came to me.

And that book is revolutionary in terms of mindset. It teaches that everything comes down to

connection and disconnection. Connection and disconnection. And when you're connected, you'll be in a high state of mind. When you're disconnected, you're going to be in a lower state of mind.

you actually feel separate and divided. All mental health disorders report feelings of isolation,

“disconnection and separation. When someone has trauma in their life, a neurological separation happens”

in their brain. There's a disconnection. Skits are funny. It means split mind by polar two poles. Everything comes down to this connection. Now connection, there's a feeling of oneness of wholeness. And when you're connected, joy and peace and love. And what we saw during the pandemic, we saw people feeling very disconnected and isolated. And it's why they struggle with their mental health. Those who are able to feel connected spiritually, whatever your faith tradition is.

But when you feel connected to the creator spiritually, connected to other people, connected to yourself, that's when you feel more whole. That's when you're happy. That's when you feel more joy

and more powerful. So everything comes down to connection and disconnection. So it's a framework.

And I've had people try to refute it. You can. It came to me at a walk. I had the ideas. I was getting really downloads. Two circles. One circle has 1,000 dots. The other circle has three dots, which mind will perform at a higher level. The three dots. We know this, right? Not the 1,000, 1,000 is a cluttered mind. Well, when you're disconnected anxiety, it's a lot of clutter in your mind. When you have the three dots, that's a lot of clarity. A lot of focus, a lot of positivity.

“So anyway, that's how it comes about. Like, I'll get ideas. I'll get thoughts.”

I start to write them down. I start to test them. I get into a call. Talking to Sean McVay, the coach of the Rams, Sean. I got this idea that just came to me. I want to talk to you about it. And I share it with him. I love that. Me with Doc Rivers, the former coach of the clippers, said that with Doc over there and shutters. We're sitting there, told him about the whole one truth and explained it to him. He goes, I see to my players. As you're talking about, I literally can see

who has a high sea of mind, who has a low sea of mind. Yep. Shared it with him. So I'll sort of share it with the different coaches and leaders I know. And that's how things evolve. And again, I'll write a leadership book. It's based on my work over the years with all these leaders. And I see a pattern of how great leaders lead. And that becomes the book. That becomes the book.

So basically, how did you get into all the sports? Not just teams, but the organizations. You do

multiple teams with the NFL, multiple teams with the MLB, multiple teams. So what was your first? Like, and I want to know what you talked about then and what your big thing. When people call you now to talk versus what they call you then about to talk to you. You asked me earlier how things evolve. Yeah. And you didn't answer the question. Yeah, I'm going to answer it right now. I'm going to answer it right now. I'm going to answer it right now. How did things evolve?

When I first started, you would love this. I started speaking about health and wellness and energy, mental energy, physical energy, emotional energy and spiritual energy. Okay, I like it. So I learned I was beginning on that. And every time I talked about like health tips, I felt like I was someone's mother telling them what to do. Yes. And I felt dreams when I did it. But every time I talked about positivity and positive energy, I felt the life.

“When I talked about a positive mindset, like it just lit me up. Okay. And that's what I knew.”

I'm going to spend more time on the mental side of positivity and less time on physical tips, health and wellness. Even in the new book, the power of positive habits, many of the tips. And most of the tips are actual mental habits because thinking is a habit. But yeah. And by the way, I will say this that the physical is just like kind of like the byproduct. It's an all mental. Yeah. Like I just did a TED talk. It's not even out yet. But it will be about how I learned

more in the gym than I did it in my in my in my MBA program. Because it teaches you like fundamentals about mental strength and discipline and patience and all these things. So to me, the physical is just a manifestation of what's going on in the mental. And you have to do the mental first before kind of, you know, until it trickles down physically or by the both interplay. Yeah. But the reason why people do physical is to get to the mental strength. And the mental

strength feeds into the ability to believe in yourself to do the physical. Like if you walk every day and you exercise, you're going to make you feel so much better mentally. A hundred percent helps you not only with focus cognitively, but it also like you said, it just it makes you your mood enhancement. It's funny because in your new book, I'm reading through it. And it's all these mental habits. And then it's like lift weights. And I'm like, huh? I'm like,

who's focused this anyway? Because you see it makes it that is a habit that is it, it helps in all these other areas. Well, in writing this book, it was great because I did a lot of research on physical habits that we should be doing that we're not doing like squatting like a child. Mm-hmm. When I first started this after writing the book, it's coming. I'm like, I better do some of these habits. I start squatting. And I couldn't get past the chair.

Right. Like I couldn't go lower than chair. Now I can go almost all the way to the ground.

It's an amazing habit doing that every day. Right. Everything you do. Or the dead hang. The

So a lot of the physical habits, I put in there. I had to research, but I've been doing those habits

now gain change in your life and they make you feel better. I feel younger now at 55 than when I was in my 40s. Right. Because you take your now your like taking care of the mental health. Yeah. But the mental health. And it goes hand in it lifting weights. I started lifting weights during the pandemic again. Because I used to lift weights and I stopped for a while. I'm at a party and my let's there. I saw this in the book. Yeah. Yeah.

I read a wrote about in the book. It's right. And I saw it and he was jacked and I'm like, I'm not jacked. I used to look like that. I'm like, I'm going to get back to it. He's on something. I'm not going to say one way or if I because I really don't know.

But I don't know. Ed works out a lot. So he really does take care of his body.

But it's just seeing him jacked. I'm like, you know what? I need to get back to that. I started lifting and I've been lifting ever since I feel, yeah, I feel so much better. Yeah. How strong is it? So my initial start in this world was on physical health, wellness, mental health, and wellness, emotional energy, spiritual energy. So this is almost like full circle right in the power of positive habits. It brought me back to my beginning and what I've

been doing over the last 25, 30 years and then putting them in one book that people could then use.

“So that's how I started and that's where I am now. Now I'm going to do other books going back”

towards. I can't even do that. I have fables. I want to write, but I knew I needed to write this book to share the collection of those habits. But that's how I got started. And then when I was working with all these different companies going there to speak on positivity, positive energy initially, I'm looking around and I'm like, well, they're all jacked and excited. They're fired up, but leadership is not. Leadership is not looking very positive at all. They look lame.

And one of the employees at one of the companies, I'm not going to say who came up to me and said, you know what, John, this is great. But our leaders are not here. And they're not doing this. And they need to. And right then in their immediate decision, I'm going to impact the leaders. Because the leaders impact people, companies, organizations, families, communities, countries. I'm going to impact leaders. And that was a decision I made intentionally. I said, I'm going to start

“writing about that. And that's what led me to write the power of positive leadership.”

I like that book. I like that book. I like that book. I like that book. I like that book. I like that book. Carpenters are great leadership books. And all these different books on leadership. The carbon, you got to read that. You'll love the carbon. It's the main theme of that one. It's the greatest success principles of all. And the greatest success strategy of all. There's three. Okay. Tell me. Love serving care. You love people. You love what you do. You serve to make a

difference. You serve others. It's not about you. It's about serving to make an impact.

And it's about caring more. And I always tell people don't focus on building your business.

Focus on loving serving and caring. And if you do that, your business will exponentially grow. And that's how I've grown my business. I love my clients. I love people. I go and serve them. It's not about me. It's about them. And it's about caring more. When you care more, you stand out in a world that doesn't seem to care. But when you care, that is a success strategy. That's true. Carrent is, I mean, a lot of this is so resonating so much. Because especially

in the world we live in now, when everything is based on, we AI can write an email, a power point, it can do a marketing plan. But there's zero connectivity in connection. AI is not going to make you laugh until you, until you cry, right? Like, AI is not going to make you feel something.

“I think now more than ever, it's more about connection and connectivity than ever before.”

And so when you talk so much and your message is similar about about that, right? Like, people are craving connection versus disconnection. You're saying, which you said something a couple times about words and serving and all these things. And you gave a really good way to kind of do it. And I think it's one of your habits, actually. Is that pickle word? Yes. Right? And focus on that word for the year. Can you talk a little bit about that?

This is one of the best exercises that we teach and share. You pick a word for the year. One word that gives you meaning and mission, passion and purpose. One word that will drive you to be your best. And everyone usually has a different word. And I tell people, just ask for your word is. Be open to it. Your word will come to you. There's a word that is meant for you. And when you find that word or it finds you, you then decide to live that word for the year.

Like, my word is build this year. We're building a house. We're building our business. Building this whole focus on leadership development that we're doing. So it's build. And every day I wake up, okay, we got to build this in years past. It's been purpose. Another year, it was whole. I want to

Each year, it's been a different word. But you do this with your team. You do this with your

family, where each person picks a word and then they share it with each other. And why they chose the word? Here's the power. Why? Because the why behind it is what gives it meaning and power. So what is your word for the and tell us why? And now we know you better. We know what's driving you. We know what your word is. And now we can help you live your word for the year. There's a company I work with, Hendrik Otto, and their headquarters, they had a one word car. With all of

the words of all the employees on the car. As a reminder, every day they're walking into work to live their word for that day. And so, like you said, you said that when you pick your

“word, you should just look up and it will come to you. What if it doesn't? It does. I guess”

today I was trying to figure out my word and I need to come more days. Having more, how long should it take? I want to know how long it takes to get the word. Because I mean, there were a few different words that came to mind. And then I kind of was like, I don't know about that word. Maybe that word. I don't know. So, as a word comes to you, write it down. And then the word comes to you. Maybe it's this word, write it down. Okay. Another word, okay, I'll write this down. And then you go,

okay, what word is more important than the other words? Which word trumps the other word? And like your message is that by picking a word, not filling the blank, it does what? Like if you have just one word, not a... Yeah, well, the one word is sticky. The one word allows you to focus. Every new year's people pick resolutions. The resolutions do not last. No. Nine hundred and ten people fail with their resolutions. And most people fail by the end of the

first month. They don't even make it to February. Right. But one word sticks. And you'll live your

“word. You'll focus on your word. You can do your word. And it's like a word that is something that”

I don't know, it comes to life as you live it. Like the year I picked surf. I had service my word. I said, okay, how can I put this into practice? And this is good for people listening. You pick your word. Then decide how you're actually going to put it into practice in your life. Right. For me, surfboard home. So I began doing laundry at home. That was one way I knew I could surf. Right. Did that. And then on planes when I was traveling, I would help people with their

luggage. And so I would take their carry on and put it up in the overhead bin for them. I did that all the time. I still do it to this day when I'm when I'm flying. Commercial. I will help people with their luggage. Commercial. Yeah. How often do you fly private versus

mixed your mixture both depends on the client. Okay. Depends on the client. So my, you know,

if I'm doing a school district, you can't expect a school district to pay for for private travel. Or would you want them to? But if it's a big old company, yeah, they'll fly your private.

“So it just depends. So okay. So what do you, when you get hired by a sports team,”

what's typically the topic that they're hiring you for? Versus a corporation. Like what are the top three things that people hire you to talk about? It's either power pots, the leadership, talking about leadership to be a better leader, lately it's been the seven commitments of a great team, which is one of my more recent books. I love that book. The seven commitments of a great team, because every team must make these commitments if they want to be great. So everyone

on the team makes the commitment and when they make the commitment to the vision and mission, the commitment to giving their best, the commitment to getting better, the commitment to each other, the commitment to connecting. When they, when they really live those commitments, man, you see this team come alive. We did it with UCLA Women's Basketball and Corey close. I did the seven commitments with them before the season and it was so cool to watch them and win a national championship.

And Corey said our team decided what our vision and mission was and we committed to it as a team. So I love commitments because they're so tangible. So a lot of times I've been speaking on that, more recently in the last couple years. Before that, it was the power of positive team. What are the principal and practices that makes a great team great? So I'll talk about that. I'll talk about a culture of grainness, how to build a culture of grainness.

I'll talk about the one truth, how to play with a high state of mind instead of a low state of mind. As I go to speak to more teams for this training camp coming up, I'm going to talk about the power of positive habits. I'm going to talk about habits that will elevate you, your career, and your performance. So I'll talk about that. So over the years it's been different topics but I love doing it and I love speaking of sports teams because when you go in there,

you're talking to the best of the best and they still want to get better. And if you can say one thing that will help you help them get better, they're going to listen. They're going to follow. If you can't help them get better, you're wasting their time. So you got to go in there knowing, okay, I'm here to help them get better and I'm going to say something that's going to help them get better. It's not about you. It's about making them better. And when you do that and you

watch them like tune in and listen and you know you made a difference. You said something that truly is going to impact them. No better feeling. And then you see it on the field and you see

to make it to the playoffs, to transform the city. They were like a different team of different

organizations, a different culture. That coach made him come with such an amazing job. That organization

did an incredible job. So working with them and then seeing the fruit of that is an incredible feeling.

“Do you do one off or are you kind of like a you like a high performance coach?”

Yeah, no, it's more. It's more coaching and one off. You do go in multiple times. Thank you. Yeah, it all depends. So sometimes it's it's one talk to a team during training camp. Right. Other times it's a series of talks and coming back and working with the team. Other times it's I'm coaching the actual coach and I'm working with the coach. And I can't say who I've coached but I've coached a number of of championship winning coaches, which has been which has been awesome.

When Dave Roberts got the job with the Dodgers, I'm that would Dave and work with Dave to help him build his culture and his leadership again. I'm that working with him now. But early on those

first three, four years. We worked a lot and to watch him do what he's done has been incredible.

I love their Roberts. So that was multiple visits. Other times it's a speaking engagement, other times it's coming working with the team, working with the coaching staff, working with the leaders of the organization. I can have the greatest impact when I work with everyone in the organization from the top down. Right. And sometimes I'll work with a president, a GM, and the coach to make sure they're aligned. So just the three people, but then it's not really

so it's not really a speaking gig. No, that's more consulting and helping them become more united again. What happened was I started as a speaker. I really started out just speaking. Then you're in. You're seeing what the issues are. And I have a consultant mind, right? I'm here to solve problems. So then I start to see what the challenges are. I start to come up with solutions. I wrote the no complaining rule. I wrote difficult conversations. Don't have to be

difficult. How do we deal with negativity on our teams and our organizations? How do we build a great culture? Right. How do we deal with the toxic employee? How do we deal with people who are focused on their own agendas instead of the agenda of the team? So you start to see all the issues

that have for you today. Okay. Okay. And like you just basically just did the podcast. I want to

“know all of those. But I think it's very important in terms of people who are, how does a leader”

become a better leader? What is the number one skills that they need to improve? Such a big question. The number one skill set on how to be a better leader. I believe it starts with with you becoming more whole for yourself and within yourself because when you're more whole, when you've dealt with your issues, when you've healed your wound, you become a leader who can heal others and help others. And you have greater and more authority when you are someone who's actually dealt with your

issues and your challenges and your past and you've healed your past. That's why forgive fast. Yeah. Is one of my favorite habits because you can't read someone if you haven't forgiven them. Right. But if someone, I agree with you. But let me say this. So like if I'm a leader and I need a lot of help because I'm just not connecting to my, you know, in my opinion, everything comes from the top down, right? So if you have a shitty leader, you're going to have a shitty culture and all the

things, right? And all starts with your leadership, right? So if someone is having, but like what if they just don't have, if they are not good at connecting, what's the first thing that you do when you go in? Like, what do you try to get that leader to be better at? Okay. So the power positive leadership really explains what you're asking in terms of how do you become a better leader? First and foremost, you focus on your own positive mindset. So are you negative or positive? And how can you

start feeding yourself every day? Yeah. In order to feed others. So you're doing that. You're working on your positive mindset and we have practical strategies for that. One of the habits in the book is become your own greatest in culture. Encourage yourself through the challenges. Don't be yourself up. Don't get down. Don't get negative. You stay positive. It sounds cool. It sounds cliche. And probably I don't know. You stay positive. You stay resilient. So that's

“one thing you need to do as a leader. Then you have to have a vision emission. Where are you going?”

And why are you going there? And you really have to be walking and living that vision and mission. Then you can rally your team towards it. But if you don't have one, they will not follow you. And if you're not someone they want to follow, they won't follow you. So that goes to being a person of integrity as well. You have to make sure you are living with integrity and being a person of integrity, which means what? What you say and what you do are an alignment. There's no gap

in your character and there's no gap between what you say and then what you do. Okay, the next step in this leadership framework is I got to build great relationships, which you just asked. How do you build great relationships? How do you get your team to want to follow you? Four seas, four seas,

Are you communicating with your team? And this is where a lot of leaders struggle. Because they

“don't, and sometimes I don't, I got to take the blame here as well. We don't communicate well. Why?”

We're so busy. And we're so stressed. We're so focused on just trying to get through the day that we don't take the time to communicate the things that matter most, with the people that matter most, where there's avoiding communication, negativity will fill it. So we have to make sure we are feeling the void with great and clear communication, with clarity. Clarity leads the focus action. So are you providing clarity? Are you communicating? And by the way, communication, the word

shares the same etymology as community, or communion, which means to join with. So leadership is about joining with, becoming one. So we should communicate to connect. You know, I keep on going back to this whole culture beat strategy. Love it. Idea, because it's such an important thing. And if you look at companies that are really thriving, they all have a very specific corporate culture, right? And so if you have someone who joins the company and they don't fit that culture, chances are they're

“not going to stay very long, right? Is there a strategy to build culture? Yes, there is. And that's what”

I've been doing actually, and create a culture building process. And that's hard. How do you build

culture? You have to first identify what your core values are. Yeah. So you first develop the

core values are. And your vision and mission. So where are we going? Why are we going there? And what are our core values? What do we stand for? That's a really cool culture hack that I haven't shared with a lot of people. I'm going to share with you. And this would be great for your listeners to hear. This is how you actually create a great culture with great core values. You ask yourself, what are the characteristics that we're looking for? And the people that we want to hire to bring onto and into

our company and our organization? What are their characteristics? As you think about those characteristics, those are actually your core values. Because you want people who represent your core values and live and believe and breathe your core values. Well, when you bring on people who have those

core values at your core value. So you might as well create those as your core values. So I'll ask a

leader, tell me what your core values are, and they'll tell me them. And then I ask them the question, tell me about the characteristics you want and the people you're bringing into your organization. And I'll see if they're aligned. If they're not aligned, I'll show them and explain this to you. And then they go, I got it. And then they realize, okay, I got to actually, I recreated and relook at my core values. And then also, this is the big one. What's your core values? What's the essence of

you? What I work with the leader? It's like, what's the essence of you? What do you stand for? One matters most to you. Because when you can live your authentic self and your core values every day, that culture's going to come alive. And you're picking words that actually have nothing to do with you that you don't care about that you're not going to live. As the leader, that culture will not be created well. Because it's actually not authentic. And it's not a

part of you. It doesn't represent your essence. Cultures the living breathing essence of what an organization values believes thinks says and does. So it starts with what you value what you believe, what you think, what you say, what you do, you're the leader. Then leadership team, do we value this? Do we believe this? Do we think this? Do we say this? Do we do this? And then your organization, you bring people on who value that, believe that. Think that, say that, and do that.

That's how you create a culture. You want diversity of people, but you don't want diversity of

“values. Remember that? That's a really good point. I like that. Also, you said that leader's”

being a microscope and a telescope. Yes, that goes to the vision and mission. So once you create your vision and mission, pull your telescope, what's the big picture vision and mission of where we're going? And then Zoom focus. What do we need to do each day to bring that vision and mission to life? Because a lot of times we have the big picture vision and mission, but we're not executing on a daily basis. And there's a lot of leaders with great visions and great missions,

but they're not creating operations. And they don't have a team to actually execute in the Zoom focus. Why? You gotta do both. I gotta tell you, we honest, that's my biggest struggle. I'm a visionary. I got a big vision. I have a team and I find myself going, okay guys, we gotta make sure we're Zoom focusing. And what I realize is, I need people around me who are great on the Zoom focus side, because that's not my greatest one. It is for myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, we're visionaries

and then we're moving on. So we need strong operation teams to do great work. That's 100% true. So that's hard, right? Because if you're a founder of a company, typically they are visionaries and they're not necessarily operator. So what is someone's supposed to do? This was a higher

operate the company. You need a second in command that can run things for you. Is there a difference in the talk you would give to a sports team versus a leadership team at the level team at business? They might include some of the same principles. Okay. They might include the same commitments. Like I've done seven commitments for corporate, very successful companies. And I've done seven commitments to a professional football team. Same seven commitments to talk, but principle,

story application. This is how people should give talks, by the way. This is a great way to give a talk. Principle story application. You share the principle. Then you tell a story that brings the principle to life and makes them feel. So my sports story is going to be different than my business story. Right. And then that's the hardest part. And then how does it apply to you and how do you apply it? PSA, I call it, by the way, PSA. Principle story application. I have a framework.

We actually give this framework away to people who want it. I love that. Because that's hard.

Like I always find it difficult to story part, right? Because are you pulling stories from yourself?

Or are you pulling stories for something else? Like it's a mixture. And you're a great speaker. And by the way, yeah, when my name comes up, your name comes up a lot as well. And that

“cool. Yeah, it comes up. You collect stories. I think it's one of the most important things you”

can do as a speaker. And as a leader is to collect stories and have different stories that bring different principles to life. And I'm always looking for different stories. And a lot of times, life will give you new stories to tell. A lot of those are in this book. Like as I wrote this book, I was thinking of the habits. And I'm like, all right, what story is going to make this habit compelling and bring it to life? And people have told me, this book is really engaging and very compelling.

And it's a quick read. It can it's easily, for that reason. It's easy because it's that you can follow it fast. Like squat like a child or it's a quick habit. But it's also a quick story that like tells you why this is important. And also makes you want to read more of it. The one, there's a, because there's a bunch of habits in it that I was like, my talk with all the time. Like have a habit, like you talk about this about having a habit before the habit. Yes, right? Because

this is where people get so stuck. Like, and you, I love, of course, I originated with me because

“you're talking about a fitness kind of situations. Right. Like, if you want to work out,”

you got to have your clothes out the night before and all these things, you know? Right. So you said, you would, if you were teaching this habit. Yes. To go back to where you're talking about, you if you didn't have you would then tell the habit. And then you say, oh, there was one time

where I didn't put my stuff out. And here's what happened. Right. And it's a funny story about

searching for the thing in its dark and you hit your head on the counter. Well, whatever, that would be a funny story at that event to tell about that habit. And then to apply to them, if I'm talking about football team. So make sure when you're in your locker, you put your stuff out ready before you go out to the game. And you have all your stuff aligned. You put your cleats on and make sure they're tied well just like John would have been saying to make sure that you're tying your shoes

because you don't want to get blisters. And then did you ever speak with him? Never got chance to talk to John wouldn't, but Corey Clos was very close with him. I know people that were her amazing stories. But yeah, I've learned a lot from John Wooden. But I would tell that story or you would tell the story to a business audience, you would say, hey, they have it before they have it. If you want to send a video to your clients, like three clients a day, just to encourage them to say

loaded them, to connect to them, write down the name of the three people that you're going to do the next day. And when you wake up, you already have the list of the three. It's going to be easier to do those videos. So I just shared an application for that audience. Right, exactly. But I think it's a

very important thing because otherwise people get very, that's when people fail. The start is always

in like the failing is always before the the actual thing, right? Because the things will happen, you'll get like side tracked. Like, I always say, like, I don't, I would do not allow myself to do anything before I do this particular thing. Like, before I do anything, I have to drink my water with lemon before I do anything else. Like, everything has to have like a non-negotiable before to get the other thing done. It removes friction. It removes friction, and it's fascinating.

“And you're more likely to do that. That's why it's actually, is that the first having the book”

yes, the first having in the book is to the habit before the habit. That's why I like to do this. It's a great way to start. What habit is you forget or you wish you would have put in the book that you didn't. You know, I've been thinking about this a lot lately because there's a habit. I keep kicking myself like, why did you not put this in the book? And it's the habit to actually get rid of your worst habit. Because that worst habit is what will ruin your life. These are habits

that will elevate your life. But that worst habit will ruin your life. And if you have this worst habit and you're still doing it, it's really hard to replace it with positive habits. If you still have the worst habit. So I should have said, get rid of your worst habit. Whatever it is, we all have

I knew you'd ask me that. I'm trying to think about my worst habit because I don't tell you.

Like, don't give me your like, you know, the kind of like PC one. Oh, you know, I work too hard. I follow me. I want to know your worst habit. I just, my worst habit is that I care about people too much. Oh, but I'm kidding. I'm totally kidding. I'm totally kidding. I'm totally kidding. Which is your worst habit? I was thinking about it because I don't gamble. I'm not a big drinker at all. Okay. I don't eat like poorly. I don't watch porn. I'm not a porn guy.

I don't watch TV a lot. Okay. I mean, I would say one of my worst habits is I probably watch too much sports and no, no, no, no, no, no. I know because no, if you watch too much sports, it can keep you from being your best. Okay. And I probably, probably eat too much, too many potato chips because I love the potato chips. I have it. But I don't really know. Those are your worst habit. To me, potato chips. My daughter, my daughter is in the hard time. My daughter says, like,

my dad is so disciplined. Greek yogurt is his dessert, right? Oh, really? Yeah. Like, so I'm thinking about my worst. Like, if I had a bigger word that worse habit, it would be more in the

“spiritual side. Like, my worst habit, I think at times, there's too much pride. If I have a worse”

habit, I, you know, will focus sometimes more on, you know, numbers than impact. You know, even though I'm really big on impact, I'll sometimes let the numbers get the best of me. Like, my worst habit is probably scrolling on social media and looking at social media and going, you know, like, you know, like, like, like, oh, I need to be doing this. I should be doing this. I should be doing that. Like, like, that might be like one of my worst habits. And lately,

what I've been saying with that, though, is, you know, I know it's a bad habit because I'm scrolling and getting frustrated because the algorithm, like, trying to figure out the algorithm is just trying me nuts. What's on your algorithm? Like, no, like, the algorithm in terms of fun. It was on it, though, like, when you're on your social show. Well, keep on showing up for me. Yeah. A lot of pizza, yeah, pizza and chocolate chip cookies. Because I do love chocolate. Like, I can't eat them. Because

I'm allergic to eggs. So, I can't eat chocolate cookies. So, so, but I've been seeing a lot of, a lot of, a lot of leadership stuff like this will come up. A lot of spiritual stuff will come up for me. I'm a faith-driven guy. So, a lot of sermons will come up. So, I'll see a lot of those.

“Who are the other people in your field that you look up to or think that do a really good job?”

Yeah. There's, you know, I have colleagues that I really really have befriended in this space. And there's others that, you know, I'm not a fan of, and there's others that I think are doing a

great job. Like, Ed, my lead is a good friend of mine. And I think Ed is, is really a powerful speaker,

and Ed just shares his heart. I've been with him and just watching him move the audience, you know, really inspires me. I think Dan Martell is doing a great job on social media, especially just sharing the concepts he's sharing, teaching what he's teaching. I said my personal faith, Josh Howardton is doing a great job on social media, sharing a lot of faith messages watching him do that and sharing that. What my mentors was Ken Blanchard, and that's not a social

meaning guy, but he, he wrote the woman at manager, and he made me want to do this work. So, he's, he's definitely one of my heroes. What's his main main thesis? The woman at manager was to catch people doing things right. It's one of the habits in the book. If you catch people doing things right, they will do more things right. So, the woman at manager is to recognize and praise someone

in that minute. And it's only up 20 million copies. Wow. Yeah, it was written the 70s.

And he's now 80, 70. Right. So, instead of catching someone, do something poorly, and be like, aha, catch someone doing right. Because there is like a lot of research back in that. Right. If you, if you praise people, they're invalidate them. They'll do more. Yes. More good work. This is the opposite. It's the carrot stick analogy. Right. You know, the whole idea is, if you want people to do more things right, then praise them for what they do

and write. And the more you praise them, they'll actually do it more and more. We think we have to correct, but actually the praise and the recognition causes them to do it more and more. And I got to say, like, as a parent of two kids, when my kids were younger, I did not do that early on. And I, I really almost messed my daughter up in terms of her athletic career. I had to step back and then come back to be an encourager and a recognizer and a praiser made all the difference

on our relationship. And she's speaking now. She's now 28 years old and she speaks all over. There's

“no way she would have wanted to do this work if I had stayed that way. So what would be your advice?”

If someone is not doing a good job and they are, like, you can't praise somebody if they're lazy or like, quite honestly, like bat at their job, right? Like, there's a whole, like, let's be honest.

Like, do you know how many people I know, how many friends I have? It's like, it's so hard to find

somebody who's really, really hard working these days. Okay. So there's three reasons why they're not doing a good job. One, leadership is not training and developing them. Okay. Two, they don't have the capacity. They don't have the skill and they need it. And three, they just don't want to. And if they don't want to, you got to let that person go. You got to let them off the bus.

“You give them a chance to get on. But if they don't get on, you have to let them off.”

I want people who are committed. I got five seas that people should use when hiring people. And you said it earlier. Culture fit is one of them. They have to have culture fit. They have to have the right character. Do they have character? Are they going to be honest?

Do they have integrity? Do they have confidence? Do they have the skill? Are they committed?

We talked about this earlier. You got to be committed and I want people who are committed and willing to do the work. And they got to be a coffee bean. And if you're a coffee bean, guess what? You're going to be a great employee and you're going to be someone who's going to make a difference. When we coffee bean, what is the coffee bean? Take a carrot and you put that carrot into boiling hot water. What happens to the carrot? It gets softened. It gets weakened in the

environment. You take an egg and you put that into boiling hot water. What happens to the egg? Soft. No, actually it's hard and hard boiled eggs. Oh, I guess, well, I think if you you're right. Yes, yes, I can. Okay, fine. It gets harder. You have hard boiled eggs and you have

“the carrot and weakened and mushy. Both being affected by the environment. Life is like a big”

pot of pulling hot water. We don't want to be the egg. We don't want to be the carrot. We want to be the coffee bean. You take that coffee bean and you put that into boiling hot water. Even if it's not ground up within an hour, it will actually make coffee. It will transform the water. So you want people who will transform their environment, but not be impacted by their environment. They will be people who transform environment. They transform companies and organizations. You're a coffee

bean. Wherever you go, you make a difference. You impact that organization. You impact those people. So you want to hire coffee beans. People who believe that they could actually impact the people around them and transform them. This is a transformative concept. I just shared the other day with a bunch of educators, school readers in Florida. And I shared this one concept at the end of with them. And they were like, they're eyes open. You have the power to transform your school district,

“to transform your school, your community. Every day go out and do it. You want people then”

who believe they can and who will go and do it. Did you think of this whole coffee bean and now? So what happened? This is really cool. I wrote a book called The Coffee Bean with Damon West. Damon West was in prison and he learned the lesson from another prisoner who said West, be a coffee bean after teaching him how this all works. Transform the prison. Don't let it transform you. Don't get all those tattoos. Don't get into any hate groups. Don't become a person

that your mother doesn't recognize. Damon West was sentenced to 65 years in prison for getting a addicted to meth and then burglarizing homes and create a whole crime ring in Dallas, Texas. So Damon West gets out after seven years and then is on parole for life, but gets out in seven years. Why? Because he transformed the prison he was in. He became a coffee bean. So what does Damon do? He's a former college football player. He starts speaking to college teams.

Dabo Swini at Clemson football had Damon Cummins speak and Damon did a coffee bean talk. I'm there speaking in Clemson. And Dabo says to me, we just had this guy. Damon West

talk about the coffee bean. He's like, "Man, incredible story, incredible message." And then

immediately said that to me, I had a visual of a cover of a book called The Coffee Bean. And as he's telling me about it, like, this is what I teach. We create from the inside out because for years I was teaching the powers within you to create the world outside of you. And the coffee bean was the perfect analogy for that. So I reached out to Damon. I said, Damon, hey, we should do this book called The Coffee Bean. And he goes, "You're John Gordon. You didn't do the

book with me. You can do it on your own. I'm a nobody." I said, Damon, we're supposed to do this book together. I see your name on it. And we should do this book together. And I'm going to give you half of my royalties and half of my advance. I don't know why, but I was just glad you did it. I did it. I did it. And Damon tells the story all the time. Now Damon has spoken to millions of people now. He does this every day. Like he speaks almost every day to a different group. He goes into

prisons. He goes into companies. He goes into sports teams. He goes into organizations. So now both of us are out there speaking all over, sharing that coffee bean message. And he's had such a transformative

They gave the coffee bean to five thousand sixth graders. Five thousand sixth graders. They gave the book to me because it's a very short read. It has illustrations. It's pictures in the book. It's a short book. You can read it in 20 minutes. So they gave it to all their kids suicidal ideation went down. Visits the counselors went down. Problems at the school went down. They actually got funding and they actually presented to the governor of Florida what they did at their school district with this foundation

and they had an incredible transformation impact with that. So if Damon, I don't get together,

this doesn't happen and it was a meant to be situation when you really think about how cool that is. So coffee bean, Damon West, big shout out to him. But again, I gave him, I gave him half my advance and the cool part of that. I know it's a god thing. Why? Because when Damon got that money and gave

“it to his parents, he owed his parents $50,000 for their legal fees. That's what I had given him”

actually as my the other half of the advance. The advance was 100,000 and I gave him $50,000 and he went into that and now the book is sold hundreds of thousands of times. How many books do you typically sell per book? Like I know that energy fast was 10 million, but what was the other one? Well, for all the books, it's been about six and a half million right now and growing, you know, for me, it's

about selling books. As an author, you know, you don't make a lot of money on books. It's about

impact. It's about people reading those books and making a difference. But each book depends, I mean, power positive leadership is several hundred thousand. The carpenter is several hundred thousand. The no complaining rule is 700,000. But the one truth might be at 70,000 right now and I'm hoping that reaches more people because it's such an impactful book. So, you know, each book I would say definitely gets over a hundred thousand. Okay, so could you set me about like you're right,

“you have another five books in you to write or how do you spend the majority of your time? Is it”

speaking? It's mostly speaking and now it's been running our company or leadership development company. We have a certified positive leader program. We're actually developing leaders. So we've been doing that a lot now. How do we do that? Through our program. So you have master classes, we have coaching, we have our portal where they come in. They have all these tools and resources to be a better leader and every month there's a master class on different topics. I do a quarterly mentorship with

the group. It's almost like a university in a sense. I've created the actually John Gordon's positive leadership institute and our whole goal is to develop positive leaders who make a positive impact in every business, school, team, organization and community to create a more positive world. And that's where we're focused on now. So I have this team. I have this group of trainers. I have a group of certified trainers. We have our marketing team. We have our operations team.

So I find myself a lot now running running the company. But I really have to do find a second in command. I really do. I have a great marketing guy now. He's awesome. I love him. But I need to find probably someone who's going to be a second in command for our future to really take this to the next level. Next level, how much more levels can you have? I mean, this level, well, you know, for the past 20 years, it's been me writing and speaking, doing what I do. So that levels at the highest

it could be. But I always believe I can grow. I always believe I can get better. So I say,

high as it can be. I mean, I'm at that level. But I want to go even higher to get, you know, get even better, grow even more. But for this, this is a new venture. So this has a lot of room to grow because it's something I'm growing with my daughter, my sons involved, my wife's involved, like we're all involved. It's really a family affair, basically. It's really a family thing that we're focused on. My daughter runs a certified positive leader program now. My son is in sales on the

sales side and together, like it's about living this mission every day. Because the idea is that, you know, there are a lot of leaders out there who don't know how to lead and they don't have the tools and they don't have the training and they're put into these positions by companies and yet they don't know how to lead. And a lot of companies will not spend money on training program. So we made our as very affordable for these people to actually come through our program

to develop Harvard is like $40,000 to go through our program. R's ranges from $9.97, $5,000 to our highest is $10,000. $4,000 to $50,000 for a leadership program to join Harvard to learn how to be a leader, like an executive leadership program. Yeah, program. I was going to say, just the university is $185,000. Yeah. But you're right, that executive program is like $40,000. $56,000. Yeah, $40,000 to the $60,000. R's maximum $10,000.

And I know our program literally will be more effective and has been more effective in terms of developing leaders to give them practical tools to go lead their teams. Because we're all about principles which inform and practices that transform. I love that. Okay, ready. I'm going to give you some

“rapid firecrackers. Okay, ready. Rapid fire. I mean, like, one or two sentences. Are you ready?”

I said I'm wrong, winded. Maybe. No, I'm just joking. I'm just joking. We met it and she we just met it

Okay. Okay. First question. If you could put one sentence on a billboard, what would it say? Stay positive. Stay positive. Okay. What's one conversation that changed your life? Wow. The conversation I had with my wife when she threatened to leave and if I did not change, I would not be home today. You know you with the right person when they give you strength. Who believed in you before you believe in yourself? Tony Kiaza and ninth grade. He encouraged me to go

for the lacrosse team. I tried to quit. I couldn't catch and throw. He said, you're not quitting. One day you're going to play in college. One day you're going to play in the Ivy League. I would go on to play lacrosse at Cornell University. Neither of my parents actually graduated

from college. And so I never knew even what Cornell was or what the Ivy League was. But he believed in

me and he changed my life. Because he believed in you. Yeah. Because he said, I'm a ninth grade. One day you're going to play in college. One day you're going to play in the Ivy League. And I go to play at Cornell University. And that experience truly changed my life going there. Man, Tony Kiaza. Can positivity be learned? Yes. I believe it can be learned and it can be developed. We could all become a better version of ourselves. They more positive version of ourselves.

And I'm living proof. Because I'm naturally negative. So you can actually rewire your brain from negative to positive. And you can develop. It's like a muscle that you can develop. And you can learn it by doing strategies and techniques to help you with more resilience and optimism and belief. So because in my brain, I think everything could be a skill. Like ability could be a skill. Boldness is a skill. This is what I talk about. I agree with you. I think positivity could be a

skill too. It is a skill. You practice like anything else. You want to be better at lacrosse.

“You practice lacrosse. If you want to be better at being bold, you practice being bold. If you want”

to be a better karate, you know, you get the gist. You can also practice being more positive. Our leadership training. We have people write down their negative thoughts. And then we have them write down their positive thoughts. And we say when the negative thought comes in, you replace it with that positive thought. Talk to yourself. Don't listen yourself. That is a habit. And a skill. You can do it in daily basis. And the more you do that,

you will actually develop a stronger mindset, more mental toughness, and more resilience. Talk to yourself. Don't listen. It's a skill.

First of all, you put that in the book, right? That's the path as a positive person.

What am I fair in habit? It's a change in my life. I have that highlighted. Don't, like basically it says, you can talk to yourself, but don't listen to yourself. Right. Don't listen to all those negative thoughts coming in. But talk to yourself. Yeah, because negative person, I love that. Well, here's the deal, Jen. Negative thoughts are going to come in. But when they come in, do you agree with them?

Or do you discount them? Negative thoughts are lies. That will tell you things about yourself and your future that just aren't true. And I ask people all the time this question. Do your negative thoughts come from you? And people say, yeah, they're in my head. But here's the next question. If you believe that, who would ever choose to have a negative thought? Would you ever choose a negative thought? If it's coming from you, why would you choose that negative thought?

You wouldn't. It comes in. It comes in so fast. We believe it. You're not the thoughts you think. You're the thought you believe. So only believe the positive thoughts. And if the negative thought comes in, talk to yourself with the word that you do believe in encouragement that you believe. And then move forward. And if you don't believe it, keep encouraging yourself until you do. What's more important optimism or discipline? I'm going to say, of course, optimism.

“Of course, I'm going to say that because you have to believe that tomorrow will be better than today.”

You have to believe in the future to have the discipline in order to create it. Ooh, I liked that. That's a good one. I liked that. Okay. I liked that a lot, actually.

I was almost stumped there for a second, but I know you were. I've got a lot here to some view, but okay.

I just can't see what my glasses. That's really unbelievable. What's one question every leader should ask their team? What's the light to be led by me? What's the light to be led by me? So they can give you feedback. And then what can I do better would be the next question? Right. I have one more. I have to ask it on a scale of one to ten. How connected are we on a scale of one to ten? You're going to tell you and then you ask what would make it a ten? Because you're going to get great ideas on how to become a more connected team.

That's a really good question. Great question. This is my, this is why I do with leaders. I will sit down and help them create their plan to lead their team. I asked this to everybody. How important is being likable? Very important. So if you're likable, you can actually be more tough with your team. I call it love and accountability. You get a love of your team and when you love them,

“you earn the right to challenge them. But when you challenge them, you have to be someone that they like”

and someone that they know loved them. And so the more likable you are, you can then challenge them, but they're still going to be okay with that. But if you're a jerk and you're not likable and you're tough with your team, they will tune you out and you will burn them out. So you got to be likable.

go a long way in terms of how you can lead your team. I think it's the most underrated, undervalued skill there isn't business. I agree. Okay. Really good. So you and I are, yeah, totally great. I've been thinking a lot about this because let me give you an example, Bill O'Brien. I was just with Bill O'Brien. Coach of the Boston College Eagles football team. He was the coach of Houston Texans. He coached Tom Brady for the New England Patriots. Okay.

And there's a scene where he is just going off on Tom Brady on the sidelines. And it's still iconic to this day. Well, Bill is a tough guy. Bill will drive you. But Bill is very likable. And I knew him. I bet that guy's really likable. I just spent time with him. Rubbs him. He's so likable. Just such a great dude, but he's a hard ass. Yeah. He's hard at it, but he's so likable. And so we're walking by as long as Bill O'Brien.

Okay. We're walking by as players. As we're walking by in the lounge. We're hanging out. They're like watching TV. Can I get you drink or something? Can I get you some water? As he's walking by and messing with them. Like can I get you some water? Would you like would you like some food? Can I get you sandwich like just as he's walking by? That's a great to mess with them. But funny. And I just like this guy's hilarious. So he'll drive him,

but he's likable. And they know he loves them. So they play harder for him. I totally agree with that. I do a whole thing on this. The likability is kind of one of my

“pillars. That's why I'm asking you. So I'm going to keep on going. What do you think makes”

somebody likable? What's the number one? I mean, quality that you think makes someone likable.

That's a great question. Never been asked that before. What makes someone likable?

Did you come to my speaking? Yeah. I would love to see that. Do you give a whole talk? I do. Do you want to make it? Yeah. I don't know if I roll talk on you guys. This is key. So don't steal it from me because I'm going to come after you. No, I'm not going to. I'm a positive guy. You know, you can be positive and also be a thief. No, not a thief. But I love that actually. I love that you do that. I would say what makes someone likable is when they're personality.

Like you have to have a personality that is likable. You also are likable when you smile. I think that makes you likable. I think you're likable when you have a great sense of humor. And you're likable when you actually care about people. And they know you care about them. And they can feel your genuine authenticity. And when you are you're more likable. Tell me what I'm missing.

Okay. I'll tell you. I always want to learn. I've deep dive on all of this.

“Okay. And there's a lot of things that go into the soup of likability, right?”

But you've touched on a lot of them. The three top are three top skills for people to be likable. Yes. Authenticity, empathy, empathy, and enthusiasm. Okay. So they're all variations of what you said. And enthusiasm is kind of like a good idea. You'd be careful on that because enthusiasm can be too much. A hundred percent. And people get turned off of it. A hundred percent. But enthusiasm, the way I talk about it is more about being kind of like kind of being like

a positive person. Right. And being a positive force, not a negative force. Right. Because that negative nally that comes in will ruin everything. You know, it's like when you have a when you get a batch of blueberries and you have one bad blueberry in there, everything else will become rotten because of that one bad blueberry, right? I love that. So it's that. And then authenticity, I think that you can get away with murder

if people think that you are a real person that's genuine and that you care about them. So the empathetic piece. And you can get away with anything. So you can't figure that out. But you can't, but this is, this is the whole thing. When you're authentic, you can't be,

“that's why like your friend, when you said that it kind of reminded me of me a little bit,”

because like, I'm a hard ass. Yeah. You don't know me very well. I can't. But I'm like kind. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. So I can get away with it because I'm actually a night. I'm a good person and I care. Right. So I can, my, my people's threshold is much better. Right. First is me just being a total bitch. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm just being honest. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I've seen that play out a lot.

Right. A lot of business is a lot of scenarios like that. And people, because they

owe women always consider a bitch, and men are considered this, no, you could be a bitch. And you can

be like an asshole. You know, that, those are things that are real. Right. But I think that if you have like those three type, those things, there's like obviously there's like, people love people who are funny and self-deprecating and all these things. I was just saying self-deprecation, I think is important. It's very important. I share a lot of self-deprecation on stage when I speak. Me too. And people really do connect to that when, when I'm on the other side. Right. Because I think a turn off,

so to me, just how there's all these things that make someone likable, there's a lot of things that make people unlikable. Right. And one of them, when people take themselves way too seriously, like, I hate those people. You know what I mean? Like, if you came in here and thought that you were like all that, yeah. Are you doing? Yeah. Or like, just like, couldn't, you couldn't laugh at your self. Like, you know, like, you, you became very endearing when you thought that you're like,

certainly don't have good in your shirt, right. But like, it's a human. Yeah. People like to connect to human people, right? Oh, yeah. I think that's true. It all, it all, it's true that I came in and my wife

So it's like, wait, I'm working on a walking and yet I'll travel and I'll get inflamed. So I was feeling very inflamed. No, but I think it's very cute and endearing, right? Because it's like, it's like, of course, we all can relate. Yeah. So when someone takes himself too seriously and shows up to something, right? Like, it's a turn off, right? In sufferable people. Yes. So let me ask you, have you written about this? Are you going to write a book on this? Well, I, I talk about it. I,

I've been talking about a lot. So when you a book on it, there's a book called the Likeability

“Factor, an older one, but you need to do a book about, I think you should a book about”

likeability and unlikeability. And I think the two together, and I see something in the cover with both somehow. Maybe I should. But it's the idea of that, because I think that's so important.

Just again, positivity and likeability go hand in hand. I'll never talk about likeability.

It's just not my thing. But when you talk about it, you live up. Never, you live up. The one that I can obviously say 33 books, I've never stole anything I don't steal. I don't know, but I just know, I know what I'm meant to write, but I always see when someone else is meant to write something. My wife has Gordon publishing that. We're helping people publish their books. And we can always tell when someone's meant to tell that's right. It just

it just oozes out of them. You lit up the mini started talking about like a building. You love it. You're passionate about it. I am super passionate about it. You know why I'm passionate about it? Because I wrote a book called Bigger Better Bolder. Okay, yeah, but I know that book. Okay, but I did a TED talk on the idea of being bold before I did the book. And it went, it went viral, like a really crazy viral. So I wrote the book. Okay. And I would get questions all the time like

about being bold. Like how to be bold, how to be bold. And my whole thing is being bold. This is a skill, blah, blah, blah. Right. And then when I start to really think about it, I realize that it's really, you can't be bold. There's a precursor. Right. The habit before the habit. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

“The precursor to being bold is you have to be likable first because much easier to get away with”

being bold if you are likable. Yes. So that's when it's whole likability thing ticked in my head. And then I said, I got asked to do a different TED talk and long story short. It didn't come out as a TED talk. I think it's might come out as TED talk. So I don't know if it's going to happen.

Right. I did it as a TED talk. Okay. But then it never, there was like a technical issue.

Yep. So then I started doing it as clips and it kept one after another became like a viral clip, a viral clip, a viral clip. But I do believe that like I am passionate about it because I think the reason why I've had any success in my life isn't because of my college or this, or that, is because of the fact that like I was, I was likable to somebody. Yep. And I connected with somebody and that led me to the one thing and then that led me to another.

Because I believe everything is about the relationship. It doesn't matter how much schooling you have, how much talent you have, how much anything you have. If you don't have that, you're never going to get as far in light. There's a ceiling to everything. I love it. I title just came to me. But I'm going to share it after we're, we're a long camera. Don't forget it. I don't want to say it now. But I'm going to say it to you. I think it could be pretty cool.

You may not like it, but I'm going to share it with you. Okay. Good. Tell me. I would like to know.

“I think it's cool. But I think you should definitely do a book on it. I always see when someone”

should do a book on something. Really? Yeah. The process is so hard. Like, it's a long process. I mean, with the publishers, like, oh my god, it's going to be on for years. No, we can, we do it. You can do it with Gordon Publishing and you can do it in six months and have it out. Is it the kind of publishing company that, like, you charge me for, like, to do the book? We would charge you, but here's the deal. You own 100% of the rights and the royalties when it's done.

Yes. And it's, but it's a real book. It comes out as a real book. So why didn't you do your book? It looks like a real book. I am going forward. What do you mean? Why didn't you do this book? Because I had a three book contract with Wiley. Oh, with who Riley? Wiley. Wiley. Yeah. And I was, um, I signed a three book contract during the pandemic. So now that I'm done with my three book contract, I'm going to be doing books with Gordon Publishing. Because that's a

model that I should have been doing all along because you make so much more of your books when you own the rights as an author of a publisher. Well, you different make money. You make about yet two dollars a book or something like that. But when you own the rights for your book, you make 10 to 12, $15. Most people don't make money off of the, even those books. The only person I know is ever made money off of a book that was self published. Honestly, it is Dave Gawgan,

Dave Gawgan, he did a self publishing book, can hurt me. That was self published. Yep.

He sold five, 10, 20 million books. I mean, he's, he made a fortune off of it. Yeah. Most people don't

make money off of that though. And I'm not like you said, are you one of those publishers? Yeah, we charge, but we're doing Michael Chan was book, the UFC fighter. We're doing his book. We do a lot of CEO leader books because they want control of their book. They want out sooner. And our books look like a real book that published book. That's our advantage. And Gordon Publishing, since I've written so many books, I'm known in the publishing world. And I love that our model

is helping people like we help you, we help you write your book, create your book, put it down in the world, create title, create everything. And then when it's out there, you now have a

So it's like, you're paying us just help you create a great product for yourself. And we love doing that. I love that. You picture new companies. So I know one of my next rapid fights. And we want and we want your book. Yeah. I would love them. I would love to do that book because that book is like everyone needs to read that book, especially the title I have. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Maybe we could do it together. Okay. Okay. Because that was my next question to you. What's your

challenge you're taking on now? Was it the publishing company? No, because my wife's, that's her passion. And then I need to tell you, I didn't want to do it. I was not interested at all, because I have so much going on. She would come with me to events. And every time she was with me an event, someone had asked her about writing a book, working on a book, and she can help

“with it. And she goes, I think I'm going to sort of publish a company. I'm like, honey, I have no”

interested in that. I don't want to do it. It's not for me. Yeah. And she said, well, I want to do it. And so she's been doing it all herself. Gotta give her all the grant. I talk about it, because I've seen the impact of all the authors and how it's worked. Who would be that cool? I mean, how many people? About 20 books. And we've got another 20 in the queue. Get out. Yeah. Kathy Rogers book is a

Doug Denler. Like, always, yeah, really cool, cool people who are building their,

somewhere building their brands with their book and coming out doing some already have a established brands. One book is, Chris Malayos book, The Chariliter. Chris hired a guy as a coach as a high school coach. He hired a young man who had several palsy, nonverbal, couldn't speak, and became a coach during that season and transformed the team. It's going to be a movie. That's beautiful. It's going to be a movie. It's a beautiful story. He actually just got counted by Hollywood,

someone who just read the book and said, this needs a movie. And we've talked about it being a movie.

“We did his book. I love that. So yeah, we're only doing books that make impact. So we will not do”

and just anyone's book. They have to have a book that we believe will make an impact to do it. So my biggest challenge you asked, my biggest challenge right now is no doubt developing this training company where we help people learn positive leadership, lead with positive leadership, and then teach positive leadership. So we have a certified trainer program. We have the certified positive leader program. And we have the, we have how to learn to be a positive leader. Now that we have this

institute, that's the biggest challenge because it's building something for the future from scratch, you know, from scratch. I had my life of writing and speaking and that was wonderful. Now I'm dealing with this every single day. And as you know, when you're building a company, so many times. Yeah. But you know what's been cool? I wrote the power positive leadership. When I wrote that,

I didn't have a team. I was working with all the great leaders teaching them. But I never

had a team. And now I have a, you know, 15 people on my team. So I'm reading my own book down going, oh, what did I say and page 95? That's right. I have to stay positive right now. Oh my god. It's hard. I'm reading what I'm reminding myself of the principles going John, you wrote this. You got to live it because it is hard. So I have so much more respected admiration for leaders even more now than ever. And I'm able to relate to them on a level that's just different now because I'm

reading my team and dealing with all the challenges. I know their problems so much better. It's easy when you're a consultant and you're like, well, do this, do this and do this, totally agree with you. You're living it. It's so much harder, but you learn more. And I'm able to help them grow because of that. Was there one thing? Is there has there been anything that you've changed your mind? Like one piece of information or advice that you've changed your mind on? When I initially wrote the energy bus,

I wrote about George having his vision and mission, the main character. Yeah. And bring it to his team and say, okay, here's my vision and mission. I want you on my bus. Now I would write it as George met with his team and said, what should our vision mission be? Let's create it together.

And then let's get on the bus. Like, let's get more buy-in at first. That's important. Yeah.

In a court for court. Yeah. I was thinking of the entrepreneur in mind where you know where you're going. You know your vision and you're taking it to the team and let's get on. But there's a lot of situations where you already have the team and you probably should take it to them first and go,

“alright guys, what's our vision? What's our mission? Where do we want to go? What do we want to create?”

So I would say that was one of the things I've changed my mind on. I've changed my mind on a lot of things but I would say that was one. Another one is maybe like you know this might be funny but maybe not be like maybe we didn't go to the moon you know. Like my daughters can try to convince me that we did not actually land on the moon. And I started to go maybe we didn't because when you really look at it and in the 1960s something of 70 did we really have the technology for the

president to talk to the astronauts like like in outer space during that time did we really have that technology? Oh so you think that didn't happen? I don't know. I don't know. I question it. I question it. Is that interesting? Yeah I question. I don't think that's so crazy to think that either. I question it and I'm just not sure we had that technology to go to the moon at that time. So you think it's not? Now we could I believe but then I don't think we had that

technology. I think it was it was all done for for the arms race to develop you know to get

communicating to us to get the people to buy in that may not have been true. Who was the most

“impressive leader? I've never said that before publicly so. Don't worry I think that I think that's”

interesting. I didn't I wasn't expecting you to say that. And I'm not saying again and if I can be proven. And then we call that but if I could be proven wrong you know I'd be fine to be proven. And you just say that. I question it in that. But it's 16. 16. You're about to question it. Technology did we have to go to the actual moon? You know when you think about it it's just hard to put all the pieces together. And again did we really have the technology for the president to be on the

phone with the astronaut in outer space at that time. I can't even get a signal now with a lot please. I know that happened in 1968, 70 years old. That's true. I believe. Okay. So I don't have fair. Yeah. I don't have. I like that. That's fair. I don't have. Okay. One more question for you. Who is the most impressive person you've ever met in your life? Wow. I mean I can't say there's been a lot.

Okay. But you got to keep Robertson's the best, Sharmy Bay is amazing. Davos Sweeney is unbelievable

as they leader. Like one of the best. Did you ever meet any world leaders? Okay, I mean.

“I met Bo Clinton was not impressed. I'm going to say like a lot. I find in life quite honestly and”

trying to tell me this is. I took a hike with RFK. RFK and I went for a hike. I think the hike with everybody are really. I thought I was special. No, unfortunately. And I'm not impressed to be honest. But maybe other people would like with them? I didn't. But I probably could if I asked. I mean I think he's fine. Yeah. I don't think he was one of the most impressive people ever met. I mean I mean no shade at him is fine. I'm just not really like he's not like someone I'm like oh wow I

got to mean. Right guy. You know. I mean I enjoyed our hike with a nice conversation. Where was it? It's Florida. No Santa Monica. Oh Santa Monica. Yeah, and the hills there. I mean really sweet guy nice conversation. How did that even happen? That's a long story. Okay, well we have time. I was. Can you make it into? When he was initially running for president. We had a place out here in Santa Monica. And we were invited to come just here we had to say. Oh I wasn't ready to that, too. Yeah,

over there in palicates. I went to this thing where he was talking before he was even running for the thing. Was I there? No, this was when he was actually officially running. Oh this one no he was officially running here too. But he was it was like he was running for president. He wasn't running for the president. Right, so we went to that and I asked him a question on culture. I wanted what is core values were. And then someone came up to me afterwards and said hey will you talk to him about

culture? Because that's really a great question and something we really need to talk about. And someone I think knew who I was and they said would you do that? Yeah sure. And so we went for a hike a couple days later and talked about culture and talked about his core values. And I gave him my opinion on what I thought he represented what his essence were and he asked me some questions. I mean nice conversation with his dogs as we're walking up the hill there.

And just just sweet guy. Okay, so something I never expected in all of a sudden next

you know I came with RFK. No, he's actually my friend Uncle. Really? Yeah, another Kennedy. So listen to that she did she get along with them? I think she's just part of the family that they don't like the whole part that hate him. The other part like him. It's like a whole thing. They get along very well. The things he has shared make a lot of sense in terms of his his positions on health and so forth have been pretty accurate of what he's been sharing.

I have no problem with him at all. I mean I have really no problem. But when I think at the most impressive people in the world, he's not one of them. You know, no offense to him. I'm sure he's very nice. I'm sure he's very smart. He's very fine. He's great. I mean fine. I'm just saying of all the people who have come to Lisa Rice a lot. Okay, so now we're talking.

I always thought like, so that's more impressive. I meant her. I meant her at the San Francisco

49ers training camp. Okay. When I spoke to them. Okay. And she was there and we had a conversation and I thought she's really impressive. I would vote for her for president. I like her too. Yeah. I like her. Yeah. I like her. And I even say like I even put her on the ballot as my choice of president when I was voting. She was good. Okay. What did someone I would vote for? I like her a lot. Did you meet Bill Clinton or work with Bill Clinton? No, I was speaking at an event

and he was there speaking as well. And it was I was in Atlanta, but it wasn't great because he hit on my wife. And so he did. Yeah. So that's all. Look, obviously. I'm going to tell me what happened.

“No, I'm not even going there. But yeah. Yeah. That's the best thing you said all the time.”

Finally, I'm being something that's good to you. I want to know the teeth. I'm talking about leadership anymore.

much more interested in that. What happened? We just read the event and she was there and he just was given her the googly eyes and like like like saying like shaking hands, greeting people. I was back, you know, stage with you. Yeah. Yeah. But he was there and as he was doing, he just stopped and like wouldn't go continue on kept going to her. And there was more to the story that I can't.

“I just can't. I just can't. I just can't. How many years ago was there?”

Oh, this was many, many years ago. Like how many? This is when he was, I think he was president. This was when he was, he was 30 years ago. Oh, my God. Like 30 years. Yes, he was with each jumping Monica a little bit this time. This was in in Atlanta. And so I was in my 20s. So yeah, this would have been in the 90s. Oh, my God. We're doing 35 years ago. Yeah. She's okay. Yeah, but I've been hoping it was more recent. No, no, okay. But I, you know, I met George, you know,

George W, as well. But did you work with any of these people? Work with like anybody who is the most impressive person that hired you. There's a lot of CEOs that are just like unbelievable, like Doug Conan, the former CEO of Campbell Soup is very impressive. Okay. Individual Doug Conan.

He turned around Campbell Soup. I mean, I think he's pretty amazing. Evan Spiegel hired me, you know,

with Snapchat. Okay. And you know, did you want to speak in GIG? So Evan was really struggling with with Snapchat. Yeah, I remember in 2017 and he read the PowerPoints of leadership like right when it came out. And I get a call out of the blue from his team. And I even know who he was really. And and didn't know he was married to, you know, a famous model in the world. Was it, um, was he married to? Really great, great, really great guy. And so yeah. So he reached out and then I went

up to uh, nappa when they were having just his leadership retreat. And I went and worked with his leaders, his top leaders. And we talked about positive leadership and how to turn around the company. It's really cool. I had him on a podcast and he shared how that meeting, how that

time, what I taught them was a game changer. They turned around the company during that time.

And it was, it was, it was, it was positive leadership that helped them turn around. So I love that and that was billion, I mean, that's billions of dollars in profit. So when leaders say, well, we're kind of returning, can you provide? Well, I work with Snapchat and help them turn around their company. But I took another company from 60 million to 100 million, this company billions. I mean, I've helped these collective leaders probably make billions and billions of dollars.

Yeah. And all these sports franchise has made billions of dollars and work and growth and championships and what those are worth. So yeah. So I would say, you know, a lot of CEOs that I've worked with, some I can't say because, you know, confidentiality, but some of the largest companies in our country will call me up and ask for my advice and I'll give them advice on leadership, which is, again, so ironic because I was a horrible leader and not the most positive person on earth.

“So I think it's full of irony. It's amazing what God could do. Yeah, I always have proof that miracles”

are possible. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, I find life to be super ironic. Yeah, it's wild. It's,

it's amazing journey. I could have never imagined what I'm doing now. My parents never made

more than 30,000 dollars a year combined, you know, now I'm 80,000 dollars for a keynote. So but to my parents almost three years to make what I make in one speech and I think about that all the time, like I really am very grateful that I get to do this and my wife give and I give a lot back. Like we are just so grateful and we don't think we're better than anyone. We just know that we've been blessed and very lucky because my life could have turned out many different ways, many times,

many times, but by the hand of God. I love that. My gosh, John, I'm so happy to have you on the show. I love to be on it. You're awesome. Thank you. You're so awesome. I met a sister from, from, from a hundred years ago. I was going to say, I'm doesn't it feel like we've known each other a hundred years. We're both Jewish, so there you go. No, but I'm a, I am a, I am a nine-year percent. I was hit on your earlier. I'm a nine-year percent Ashkenazi Jew, which we probably have ancestors who are

from the same problem. Yeah. I'm all part of our screen, Russian, some Polish, with the witty and I don't know what your background is. Polish, Russian, well, a lot of Israeli, a lot of Israeli. A lot of Israeli.

“Okay. A lot of Israeli. Your family from Israel? Yeah. My mom is Israeli. Really? Really?”

Yeah. Well, okay. Then you're more of some Sephardic then. I am more, no, I'm actually more Ashkenazi. I'm half, I'm both, my grandmother is from Poland. My, my grandfather was Israeli. My mom was born in Israel, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, we're probably like second cousin. You know, like, like, we probably are in some capacity, because my daughter just went on genealogy.com. Okay. I'm going to do a research on that. And we found my biological father

side of the family, and where they came from. And then my grandmother's side of the family,

and mother came from Romania and Ukraine. So, Romania, Ukraine, but they met in Austria.

So, I'm actually part of Ukrainian, part of Romania, but that met in Austria. So, I always thought

I was just Austrian, but all I have Romanian and Ukrainian. Wow. And Sean McVay's wife is from Ukraine. Really? Yeah. So, I texted and I said, hey, I found out I'm part of Ukraine, because I knew you had some toughness in there. Yeah, right, right, right, right. Because Ukraine's are really tough. Very tough. So, I'm believable. Yeah. So, again, I guarantee we have some ancestry, no doubt. There's no doubt down that path. I just, I just, I chose to become a follower of Jesus.

I, I didn't, I was going to bring it up and I'm like, I'm not even going to go there, but I, I, why did you do that? I had an encounter with Jesus that changed my life. I really had a

“spiritual encounter. I never thought I would believe what I believe. It's, it's been a miraculous”

like encounter. What do you mean you had an encounter? So, I was, I was a Buddhist and I was a new

actor, like a lot of Jews, and I was a meditator, and I was seeking, like seeking. And always

struggling with this anxiety and fear that doesn't go away. So, you really, you really have anxiety to a certain extent. I was, I would not anymore know, not anymore. My faith changed me, transformed my heart and soul. And so, what happened was I, what year were we talking? We're talking in nine, no, we're talking. I became a follower of Jesus at 35, when I was 2000 and 2006, 2007. Even, I'm 55 now. So, 20 years ago, but 35 is pretty old when, you know, to

have that transformation. And what happened was I was struggling with all of that. And I remember I was meditating. I started seeing a glowing cross in my meditations. And then a friend of mine during that time gave me a sermon. And the sermon was called, "Why I followed Jesus?" So, I listened to it. And it was about, it was about Jesus as the Jewish Rabbi. And it talked about how he was Jewish. And it talked about how he, and why the disciples would follow, because they

would Jews. They would Jews. And they followed him, because he was a Rabbi and said, "Come and follow me." Like, someone actually believed in them. And it was called, "Covered and dust." And it was about why Jesus would go from town to town. And when someone, like, did not get on the bus, did not follow them, just, you know, "Covered and dust." Just keep walking, take the dust off your feet, and just dust off and go. And I'm listening to the sermon about

Jesus, the Jewish Rabbi. And it just really spoke to me. And then I said to this, I said this prayers. And I got, if he and Sui said he was, you know, show me the signs. So, I'm driving out for a land, though, and I'm looking to the left. And I hear, "Look, and I turn to the right, and there's a sign on the billboard." This is Jesus' answer. So, I got these encounters with glowing crosses. And that sign, I go see a Buddhist energy healer, a Buddhist energy healer. So,

I go see him. And I'm, hey, hey, Dan, I haven't only sprung my stomach, he's working on my stomach, he's doing Thai organ massage, he's like a rollover, if you know any other stuff. Yeah, no, I like that. Okay, so I'm not that. Yeah, he's doing all that.

“I'm really into that. Always saw the world in terms of energy. So, I believe in energy medicine,”

all that good stuff, and he still do. And I said, "Don, I'm seen all these signs that said, Jesus is the answer. What do you make of that?" He goes, "Oh, that's simple. I'm a Buddhist. I'm trying to attain enlightenment on my own." With Jesus, all you do is believe and receive. I said, "What do you mean? Jesus takes your soul pain." He takes your heavy vibrational energy. Christians call it sin. He goes, "You can't connect to a perfect harmonious energetic God.

If you have heavy vibrational energy." He said, "Jesus, just takes that so you can connect to God." I said, "Can I take someone's soul pain? He goes, "Can you handle your own?" And I walked out of there and believed in that Jesus literally, the purpose was to take my my burden, my pain, allowing me to connect to the Father, God, Yahweh, the Jewish God, that we believe in, and would connect me to Him. And in that connection, I would find peace,

enjoy, love, and power. And that is what's happened in my life. It is transformed my life. No anxiety, heart, soul, power, transformation, peace has changed me. So that's my faith journey.

I never thought I would share that with a fellow Jew like that, but the change made. So it's why I

believe. And I'm not saying to everybody, you know, should believe what I believe. That's just my story.

“And that's what's happened to me. But then I mean, all these other Jews that are now following”

Jesus too, I was in a Passover Sator with a bunch of Jews who became followers of Jesus. One guy died, a Jew, and came back to life, and Jesus came to him when he was dead. It was like dead, and literally like brought him out of it, and he was alive, and that has now following Jesus, like these incredible stories, rabbi, Jason, soble. Just go read, rabbi, Jason, soble's books. They're amazing. He gives the context of Judaism, and Hebrew. Yeah, it had Hebrew and how it all

connects how the New Testament and the Old Testament are connected. And you can see that one

orchestrated all. And that's why I say we're one team. We're not on separate teams. We're one team. Because my relatives when I became a believer, from Long Island, my Jewish relatives, they were they were like, can't believe you. There's still a few of us, and you left the team. I go, no, we're still the same team. We're on the same team. We're all one team. We're not meant to be separate teams. And my goal is to unite people. And I meet so many Jews who have so much amazing faith,

and there's so much power in the Jewish tradition that people need to understand and live. I have many Jewish friends who don't even know about their Jewish tradition. They don't know about their parents. They don't know about, they don't know about the old stories of David and so on. Yeah, but also not. That's also pretty sad. I was very sad. They need to. I wish people were more knowledgeable and more educated and they need to. And and and took and like took that initiative for

themselves. There's so much power. There's so much power. I come like Jewish friends. Like, just get back to your faith. There's so much power. So what does that mean if you're like a

“Jew for Jesus versus a Jew for what? So the only difference is that I believe that Jesus is the Messiah”

and and I believe that he's still coming. He will be that he's still loving. Yeah, I do. He's the Jews believe that he's still coming. And I believe that all those signs and my own experience shows me and tells me that he's here. He already came because he's already living in me. And I go and I because the the whole world lives in you. But you could still celebrate all the Jewish

traditions. It doesn't change. I am never going to change. I am still of Jewish heritage.

Like, would you celebrate Passover? Yeah. Would you celebrate? Yeah. You're fast on you. I did. I didn't this year. But I have in the past. But do a lot of Jews for Jesus. Celebrate that. Yeah, people still honor their their their past mission. Do they still be Jewish and still believe in the Jewish. So yes, I'm do. Yeah. There are that do. Yep. The things is your the wise are such a negative connotation when Jewish people become

Christians. Christians. Is it because we're such a small community and people feel you feel like you're going to a different team. Right. Like you're like you're like kind of giving up on on your Jewish heritage. On your Jewish heritage. Because there's so much happening. If if they come after the Jews, if people do,

I've got to take a stand for the Jews because like that that's something that I would never

ignore the Jewish people because that's part of who I am. So it's like you don't give up your heritage and who you are and what makes you who you are. But at the same time, I would say my faith in God, like overall my faith comes first, but my faith also says stand up for people. But I'm best inclined not to go after people but to unite people and connect people and be someone who could be a bridge rather than divider. But if someone's attacking someone and they're going to try to kill them

and come after my family, well, then you would have to fight back in that regard and take a stand for those who are getting hurt. And so for those who are being attacked and like I have really good friends who are Jewish, Mike Levine is the head of C.A. Sports and he's often post about just,

you know, and I'll reach out to Mike, and I stand with you. Like I will always stand with my,

“you know, so in October 11th happened, what happened? We just, you did you stand with the Jewish people?”

Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, when you see that happen, it was just pure heartbreak. I mean, just heartbreak. But I have to be honest, I would, I would take a stand with anybody who was attacked that way. Like I would, I would feel that, I have empathy a lot of empathy. So I would feel that for any group that was attacked that way. But like my wife and I had dinner with a bunch of Israelis and great conversation just on hearing their standpoint, how they see the world and it was

so interesting and they talked about October 11th and just hearing it from their perspective. Good friend of mine, Mark Lawrence, you know, Lawrence Foods, just a great human being, very strong in his faith and, you know, supporting Israel. And I'll listen to Mark and hear, here's standpoint. So do you support Israel? Of course, I mean, but, you know, there's a difference, like it's like saying like, do you support, you know, everything the U.S. government does?

Like I don't have to support everything the Israeli government does. Right, right, right, support Israel and the Israeli people, right? Yes. I support America. I'm a huge believer in America. Like I'm a big fan of America. I love our country. But I also know that our government is very

“corrupt in times. Our government can be very corrupt. I think most governments have corruption to it.”

So when you see support Israel, it's like this not just like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like we're going to support everything about Israel. Right, right, right. Just like I'm I'm I'm I'm America. I'm I believe in America. But I'm not blind to the fact that there's a lot of corruptions in our in our government over the years from Republican Democrat and all different political persuadies. Absolutely. You know, so

at times I think, you know, I did run for city council when I was 26 years old in Atlanta. So there were times I think maybe I'll run one day. But I also know that it's so divisive

If you're not of that power, you go in with your beliefs, ideals, but if you're not part of that

power structure, they could destroy your life and they could destroy you. So it's there's a lot of thought around that like maybe I'm just supposed to stay and do what I'm like if I was ever but I if I if I felt God calling me because again, I know God calls me because every book I've written, again, idea and I write it in three three and a half weeks. Wow. So I know that. So when an idea comes, I know I'm just meant to write it. If I get calling go, all right, I want you to go run

for office. I have a file and I will do that. I got pretty obedient like I literally have as I'm walking in ideas. I get inclinations of what I'm supposed to do. And you're a human being. Yeah and

I have good intentions. And you're good intentions. And that's the most important thing. And

you have good intentions, good actions. And you have to care about people and do the right thing at the point. And I know like me, you know, I always live with the end of mind like 25 years from now. They're going to be telling stories about you. What kind of stories do you want them to tell?

“Well, I think also this is the road to hell is paid for good intentions. Oh, that's good. Right?”

So it's got to be good action. It's good. And that's why the action piece is the most important. Yeah, good action says who you want. Yeah, good intention. Everyone, everyone has, I don't think any most people are not malice or have bad intentions. It's what happens after that. Right? It's like, this is the road to hell, it's paid with good intentions. But then something happens and it turns to not so good. We can do a show when we just thought about different topics.

I know that. We can literally go back and forth with different topics. Because as you're saying that, you know, one thing I do want to say people listening is we talked about Jewish and Christian. I know you probably have Jewish listeners. I saw this pastor there that they give a great lesson where he said, you know, he was, if someone of my faith, trying to tell you how to live and what you should believe, he said, I'm sorry. Because we should not be doing that. If you read the Bible and

what Jesus said to do, you're literally not supposed to, you're supposed to just live that way. Yeah. And then I share the point. And I share with my son and my son has really strong faith. And he was no doubt the great commission. The great commission means you go make disciples. And the idea is that, I said, oh, yeah, those are great commission. But that means telling people about Jesus and how he changed your life is actually the great commission. But you're not supposed

to tell people how you should live and the values they should have. You're supposed to live those

“values and tell people how God changed your life. And that's what you need to do. So I wrote this”

today. I came to me. I said, don't tell people how to live. But share how God and the Holy Spirit lives in you and transforms you. Yeah. That's the key. I love that. Oh my God. Okay, my legs falling asleep. I need to wrap this thing. I swear these chairs are like, I don't know what they're talking. I don't see them forever. So many hours. I don't even know. And the only reason why my new chairs haven't come into my studio. So these are like, I have like sciatica on this leg. And it

is killing me. You remind me of my Jewish cousin, by the way, you remind me of my cousin. Really? Yeah. I should say, I'm a sciatica, my bag. I'm saying, what am I going to do about that? Like, I'm like, how am I going to deal with this? I mean, the minute I walked in, I'm like, there's my sister. There's my cousin. That's so fun. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love that. Oh, my God. You're going to have a guest in your Jupiter or whatever. Yeah. Well, we're in where you can come

visit us anytime. Oh, you're so nice. I'm going to. It's five o'clock. We've been talking for, you don't want to know how many hours. Okay, an hour and a half. No way more, two and a half. What? I was supposed to meet our friend David Nurse for a hamburger as well. Oh, are you serious? Well, you're a little late. So I gave it. I saw you a couple of you saw this. Well, exactly. I'm not meeting David Nurse right now. Okay. So guys, pick up the book,

the power positive habits. John Gordon, follow him on Instagram. And please, this is where I say to

you guys, if you have not yet subscribed to this podcast, please, I always forgot to say something.

“It makes such a difference in the algorithm and all the things that are important on the back end”

to make this podcast go, go, you know, continue to to move and go. So please subscribe. And thank you so much for being my guest. It's a great one. Definitely subscribe. Thank you. Thank you guys. Bye.