ON SELF ACCEPTANCE... With Pamela Anderson and Rylan Clark

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For a limited time try one skin with 15% off, using code fail at 1skin.co/fail. That's 15% off at 1skin.co with code fail. After you purchase, I'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Self-doubt is a language many of us learn early, shaped by criticism, societal expectations,

and our past. Being to accept ourselves can be the work of a lifetime, but real change happens when we stop trying to become someone else and start coming home to who we are. This episode brings that truth to life through two cultural powerhouses.

First Pamir Anderson, global icon and golden globe nominee, she reflects on fame, body

image, early trauma, and the long road to self-discovery. You also uncover that the harshest critic is often yourself, but the only approval that matters is your own. Then, Ryland Clark, since rising to fame on the X-factor, he's become one of Britain's most loved, raw-casters.

Ryland opens up about growing up, feeling different, navigating his sexuality, surviving bullying, and the women who shaped him, experiences that made him exactly who he is today, and we wouldn't have him any other way. We begin with Pamir's story. Let's dive straight in.

You spent years dressing for others, and you say it was fun at the time, but you're glad it's in the past. So when did dressing for others start for you? Was it when you were in the public eye?

“Well, I think you start believing what other people see in you and what other people expect”

of you. And so, I mean, again, I didn't have a stylist back then. A stylist wouldn't have let me walk out the door, you know, if I was wearing some of those costumes, it would just be digging through doors and putting things together, and, you

know, corsets and hats, and even when I first started doing interviews when I was on TV,

I would go to the Playboy Studio and pick out pieces of clothing, you know, half pieces of clothing, and have to put them together somehow, and they have like, they had a great just wild closet to pull from, which is, you know, every color shoe, every color corset, you know. So I just started putting things together in myself.

I didn't remember, I did a campaign for shock moose, and I remember Simon asking me, "Who style'd you back then? It was so genius." I was like, "I guess I'm the genius." Because I put those together, and he had tears in his eyes who was like, "No, don't tell

me that. That was incredible." But it was authentic. It was fun. I thought it was...

“I remember going to Madon back then, and I found like polka dot stockings with like the seam”

up the back and a plastic dress, and, you know, wearing my hair and a shinion and putting eyelashes on, and it wasn't about out, it was just kind of what I threw together. But then, in my first marriage, you know, Rockstar Marriage, I thought, "What does the Rockstar

And then I just started playing that character. Even though it's been fun to see Beyonce dress up as me in barbed wire, and, again, those red carpet looks.

“But I created those characters, which I think is a compliment, because I think you can't”

create it, you are not just a costume, you're the person in the costume, and I think what people responded to weren't just the bedazzle pants, but the actual young girl having fun. Yes, the character you created in that outfit.

And you mentioned that you were creating a character dress-wise within your first marriage,

but were there other things that you were dressing for other occasions? So when you went to promote a film, for instance, in that era, were you under pressure to wear certain things? Well, by buyer, what I went to can, we hadn't even shot a frame of film yet, but I had my workout leggings in my bag and a little black corset and gloves and boots from a photo

shoot I had just done, and so I put that together, it wasn't planned. I just came out on the pier, and there's funny boats were running into each other, and people were falling off of boats, and I kept going, "Who are they looking at?" "What's going on?" "I didn't realize it was."

I had no idea, so I just did that.

I remember that. That's so iconic!

“And it was your workout, it was my workout leggings, wasn't that exciting?”

So exciting! You all were creative genius! Oh yeah, well, but all these happy kind of accidents, and in the time at the moment, it was getting a lot of attention, but it wasn't like it was the cover of Vogue, it wasn't fashion, you know, it was me playing, and so I don't know if that was a failure, but in the moment

it felt disrespected or didn't felt appreciated, it didn't feel appreciated, but now that this 90s has made this comeback and people are really kind of looking at that time, you know, I guess I was a little bit of a pioneer, I'll just say that, look at it as a positive, but in the moment it was courageous, because it was just fun, and it was playful, but it wasn't fashion, it wasn't cool.

Yes. And do you feel that people didn't take you seriously as a result? Oh, no, people weren't taking me seriously, and I think people forget too that I wasn't actress, I wasn't just a celebrity because of my personal life or my marriage, I was on Baywatch for many years, and I was on VIP for many years, I did a movie barbed wire, may

or not it be, the box office hit, but it's a cult hit, and I was married, it was a high profile marriage, and then people became celebrities for just being celebrities, and I kind of got lumped into that category, but I really wanted to be an actress, and I'm so glad I get to do that now. I am, too.

And I mentioned the 90s there, and we're also living through this era of Y2K resurgence, and there is also this sense that there's a toxicity to it as well in terms of body image, and I wonder what you think about that, because you touched on social media and the impact that that is having, what do your thoughts on it? Well, I think people have to realize too that all these images are retouched or have filters

on them, and people can make themselves look anywhere they want their bodies and everything, so it's not a good resource for a body image, you know, social media. And also, every generation has its challenges with body image and with beauty and with what we think is trendy or looks good, or we try and keep up with the Joneses, or we do

what everybody else is doing, and there's just always a trade-off.

“You have to support people no matter where they are in their beauty journey.”

There's no judgment of what people do, it's never too late to look in the mirror and to accept where you are in that moment, and to start there, start fresh, start over, it's never too late. I totally agree with you, and I really appreciate this idea that the dove self-esteem project has of bodily autonomy and body realism rather than this constant pressure to feel overwhelmingly positive all the time, but who we are and how we present ourselves,

because that's not realistic. But I think the most powerful thing for me is as you're doing, stripping at the layers, understanding who I am, underneath it all, and not trying to chase trends that change all of the time, because that's the nature of a trend. Are that trying to chase youth? Yes. And then it's just been, you know, bed to us is that to look as young as we possibly can as long as we can, and I don't know, I think

it gets more interesting. You know, it does. I mean, I have my own insecurities and things that I catch myself, but I think that's the challenge, is to embrace those parts of yourself,

in it's ups and downs, there's two steps forward, one step back and just how it is. So knowing that this episode is going out and it's going to reach the ears of women, people of all genders, but young women in particular, what would your message or piece of advice be to them if they are going through a struggle with their own body image, with their own acceptance of where they're

“around on their beauty journey? I think that we're our own worst critic and nobody else is judging”

you. What they, I feel like that was my aha moment was when I realized nobody else is they're more worried about the way they look and that I can go to the beach in a bathing suit. I can look at

myself in a critical way and I know that's a practice body image should be based on how do you

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listen wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go on to your second failure which is your failure

to fit in at school and I imagine that there's a lot that ties into how we started this conversation. Yeah I mean I weirdly and I mean that's quite a vague statement because in primary school don't belong at a lovely time. I had a really great time at primary school but I had these times

“where I didn't feel like I fit in and that was because I think I was trying to work at who I was”

and what these thoughts that maybe I was having meant because you know when you're nine, ten years old back then I don't know about nine, ten years old now but back then I didn't know what the word gay meant. I didn't know what that meant but what I would be doing I was quite a stereotypical so in the playground the boys would be playing football and I'd be with the girls doing bewitched routines in S.C. 7 by the church and performing for the dinner lady it's like

all of these things and as much as I wasn't made to feel like I didn't fit in. I think that was a pressure I was putting on myself like why am I here? Why am I here and not on that side of the fence with the boys playing football and that sort of progress I remember there was this one time it was this boy from school's birthday and sort of that thing you invited the whole class and we all went but he had friends from not our school and me and the girls are sort of outside

doing this routine and whatever well these are and I remember his friends that didn't go our school were like taking the piss out of me which I can understand but I'd been in this sort of bubble of like well they all know what I'm like and then suddenly you're out in the what you feel is the big bad world with people from another school they're like eight do you know what I mean

“but it's just I remember that it's something that I banked and I thought maybe I shouldn't be doing”

this maybe I should be with the boys so it's sort of not a case of not fitting in and being ostracized in at the edge of the class more that internal feeling of why am I doing this what does this mean and you know you'd have the odd person say something to you and you think what does that mean what does gaming what does this mean and then when I moved to secondary school again I was very lucky to go to a really good secondary school and I was a little bit target it in the

quite happy with who I was and knew what I was and was like fuck you and that's when I've never

forget someone come up to me and tried to take the piss out of me was two years old I had all these mates with him taking the mic and I just went do you want a fucking blow job or something because you're obsessed and he's face just dropped and he's made sort of took the piss out of him and then I was like okay and then he never said anything to me since and it sort of just like only who I was I wasn't ashamed of who I was but yeah I think taking that ownership meant a lot to me

there's a lot that I want to come back to you on that but I wonder what your thoughts are on the language around quote unquote coming out because I feel that that often implies there's something

“that you're coming out from that there's been this sort of darkness that you need to emerge from”

and it can be it can imply something really negative but it sounds from what you're saying

you always knew yourself you just didn't have the language to express it I totally understand what

you're saying and I'm really grateful for you saying that because I mean coming out as the term don't offend me in the slightest like and I get why it's called coming out because it's like I'm telling the world who I am I'm hoping in 10 15 years time no one uses the words coming out because whether you're gay straight by one of our sex with vegetables good lucks here like it shouldn't be an issue the weird thing is I always say this like when anyone comes out in the media that

maybe has been working in the media for some time and has never spoke about this sexuality or whatever and then awesome decides to for their own reasons great modern and they get a lot of praise

“and people are like yay I remember having this conversation with a couple of other people in the”

industry that are also gay and it was sort of like a passing joke you come in but it was like

we didn't get this fanfare like our arc is we've always just been who we are I've never publicly

come out I've just been on TV I married a man I've never said guys the same we've got to tell you I've never done the coming out video I've just been myself and people have a presumed or I've said something somewhere and you know that's that so for me I sit there and go if someone wants to tell the world their gender sexual preference were great I'm here to support everyone if someone doesn't and they want to keep it hidden again it's great it's your personal life I

don't care you sleeping with whatever but for me I came out to my mum everyone else just knew did you mum know when it was quite a funny story because I got my friends mum to tell her because I bottled it and I heard her in the background on the phone guy no Linda no and I ran away because I thought my love to get this out of me and what my friends my mum said he's got sanctuary and she went oh don't tell me he's got a girl pregnant sorry I mean I don't actually

know but I mean she wasn't deaf and blind but for some reason she thought I might have got a girl pregnant but yeah I love your mum she's right on she's a nightmare okay and growing up she was a single mother you have an older brother he mentioned she's a driver he's quite a bit older than me so he was like that figure okay did you ever feel the lack of a dad and do you think that's part of your need for validation she knew what no genuine hand on her

didn't the only times I ever felt odd about it was if when I was younger you'd have a supply teacher that don't know the kids obviously let's say you did something wrong or you did something good or they were asking you stand up and tell you and if they just said a pass from it like what do your mum and dad do and something haven't got dad they're the only times it would be like oh it's weird but no like now a lot of the public know my mum is if they've

seen her or at least it's from a very low show she's definitely strong enough to be a mum and did that and my dad lived with us as well because my mum wasn't well a lot of the time so I sort of had two mum's and then my brother as a father figure so when my brother was so much more older than me he was the one that would sort of buy me my first computer or things

“that I think you just don't forget as a kid so I never felt a lack of a father figure because I”

almost had three parents I mean it's better than none is in it yeah yeah so there was not need to prove yourself to show yourself to your dad absolutely not okay no I've ticks that code psychology box yeah yeah like I really wish I mean look I'm sure if you pick through my brain and certain traits or this and you cross-reference it with people that didn't grab up the man

maybe that is because of a lack of a dad like I have always sat there in full nature and nurture

“when it comes down to my sexuality and you know growing up in a house I would two females did that”

make me gay I don't know like but I always do think that and but I genuinely think I could have grown up in a household with the craze and still like willy so you know like I genuinely believe that people are who they are I feel like nurture definitely plays its part in people's character and their characteristics and how they behave but I do genuinely feel that people were meant to be who they are I don't know but might just be like a lovely dovey thing to say no I totally agree with you

and that idea of nurture being integral that mindset that you mentioned earlier of that idea that if you wanted something you'd had to put it in the house and you could achieve it okay that's pure nurture and that's clearly something that you inherited from your mom your grand your older brother so you want something you go and work for it and you can't get it and even now I'm in a very luxury grateful position where I could be places and they'll go you don't go pay for this or

you can have this I don't get me wrong sometimes I think that's lovely really appreciate it

“but I'll never forget after X-Factor there's about six months after and I'll all I want it to do”

to me I always wanted to lose the time to see you guys don't know why it's their stereo type

oh you made it and I remember going to the shop with my return manager and walking in there I'm going I want to buy that and I'm like yeah no worries I'll take you upstairs so I'll leave it on a apartment number oh that's the minute and literally they were like we've expected I pressed team they're happy to give this year and I just broke down and was like no I want to pay for it I want to pay for it let me buy this for myself like that sounds so ridiculous because if they

want to send me one now I'll take it but yeah literally like for my own validation yes that's when I knew I done well yes to be able to have the money to buy that like and

that's when I was up right when I did and I did and to this day like I rinse it like it's

prying because I use it that much but every time I pick up that suitcase even all these years on I've been lucky enough to earn some money build my own house I've got car build my mama house every time I pick that suitcase up I'm like you don't know why yeah that time I've not fitting in at school you've been I think very generous to the people who as you say kind of teased you because actually it was very serious bullying at one point I wasn't when it was yeah

that one point it was quite bad you fractured your scar yeah so that was the late primary school that was and it wasn't actually kids at school there was this place near our school where everyone went it was like an adventure playground thing not like a playground like a normal one it was like a purpose built like rope swings and you'd have staff there like it was one of those sort of children's places and yeah just one day this group of kids I was just on the swing

just grabbed me threw me down on the floor and kicked me in the head and it fractured my skull and the next thing I know I'm in an ambulance and I remember going past my house seeing my house

“through the window it was like well it's weird because I was young and I don't really remember that”

much but I remember those snippets and I remember being in the ambulance and seeing my house I've been like that's my house and they're like down and I'm like and then I'm crying because I'm getting like what's coming on like my parents and they're like all of this like what's going on and yeah yeah it fractured my skull and yeah it just turned out these kids had seen me playing with the girls and didn't like it and that was it I didn't even know them but they were just like a

kids that went there so yeah so that was sort of the final straw for my mum actually that's when she went we're leaving we're moving don't be in no more and that's when we moved that we were the last sort of ones of our family to move out to Essex we all come from East London and yeah that was the final straw for my mum she just went no we're going do you think there's something about having Rylan and Ross that dates from that moment where it's safer psychologically

for you to keep your truest of truest self protected you can be more right that's exactly what I do and yet probably does come from events of my life when I went on X like I said earlier you have a decision to make do you take this and hope to get something or do you stop and disappear and get nothing and that's when the brains split into two and I'm in my life this is a Rylan man Three, nine, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, seven, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight