Celebrity BFF Breakups, Cancelled Stars and Crisis PR

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Well, we have a great show for you. We get into so many hot topics. But before we get there, I just want to remind you, I will be doing stand up comedy foreshows in Salt Lake City, March 20th and 21st foreshows at WiseGuys Comedy Club. Go to Heather McDonald.net, get your tickets.

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I'm very excited for you to hear this interview. I did, we get into PR crisis, and so much more, and we cover many current hot topics. So here we go with my show. Hello, and welcome to juicy scoop.

I'm so excited to talk to my guests today. Welcome Ashley Hansen. We met through a mutual friend, but what's so interesting about your career entertainment is that you've really worked in all facets of PR strategy,

crisis PR, and so I thought we could just talk about some topics and things,

“and how would you counsel the person to get into it?”

So ready? We get right into it. Okay, this is from By-Wig, Hello Drama, because they were reading Lisa Renner's book that just came out, and I, someone sent this to me earlier today too.

I'm not surprised that she would do this, because it's her personality, but she wrote, "I'm happy to drag Sutton, who is the co-star of Real House, who has ever really held with her.

She's frumpy. There's no sex appeal about her whatsoever, and she's got a weird body, so God bless her." As someone who watches the Real Housewives, I don't even remember Sutton and Renner even having any issues.

Renner brought Sutton in, and then at one point there was something about an Elton John. Hardy, do you remember? That's the beef. And then Sutton was like, "I paid for you and Harry to go,

and she's like, that's not true, and then it became." I remember, okay, so it was the Elton John Oscar thing. Yes, for the charity.

“And she, yes, Sutton, I think Sutton was wealthy.”

I think she was going to these things, and but Lisa Renner being a star was able to go to charity events in Hollywood for free for years. And therefore, I think she was the housewife and Sutton invited her,

and I don't think she ever even thought to offer to pay her.

and now you're on real housewives, you're welcome."

And then when Sutton revealed that she was like, "Okay."

“That's what I think happened, she was like, "Okay."”

Like, don't make me look like I didn't pay my phone bill like enough. Agreed, and I also think the way that these tables work is you know, is like one person will buy or a studio will buy, and then they can give out those tickets. So you're not paying for individual seats when somebody's bought a table.

So obviously, I think Sutton bought that table, and then decided to put a number on those two seats when probably from Lisa's experience. She's like, "I get invited to these things." Like you said, "Right."

And those Hollywood charity events like I have been given free tickets to those things as well. They want press from it, which I give press with the podcast, but also, you know, they want a certain number of celebrities because the people that are not celebrities that bought tickets.

That's part of the appeal. And, you know, so yeah, maybe you're not paying the $500 ticket, but then also you might buy the auction item for, you know, $10,000. But getting back to just going on her body. I saw this that I was like, "Oh my God."

Because a very similar thing has happened to me. Do somebody set it to you or you set it about somebody? To know. So I was looking for it. Okay.

I cannot find the exact video, but I haven't looked very hard. When I was at Chelsea lately, I distinctly remember she went on watch What Happens Live. And there was video of the after show. Okay.

And at that time, we were fine. I was on the show. But the whole vibe of the show was like picking and bullying and making fun of people, right? So the caller called and said something like,

"Why are you, why you mean to Heather?" Or something like, "Why do you something about me?" Yeah. And she goes and I remember like watching with everybody. And I was like, "This is so weird, but at the time she was my boss."

So I'm like, "I'm not gonna say something."

But like, basically when she said was just like,

"Cuz is trying to be her weird self." And she said, "Well, for one thing, Heather McDonald has a terrible body." And Andy's like, "What?" And then she went on to say some other weird quirky thing.

And then that was like it. And I remember sitting in Jen Kirkwin's office and people were all watching it. And I was like, "Okay. Like, I mean, did she get backlash for it?"

No. Back then, nobody knew what he was like, nobody was like cutting clips and saying anything.

“And they were just like, "That's why we got away with the stuff we did on Chelsea”

like the first time." But I just remember going, I mean, first of all, we don't, not that much. It doesn't matter. But I had, you know, everyone, everybody is different.

You know, like, and, you know, Sutton has a distinct figure. I think she looks good and close. She's thin and was a former ballet dancer and other people have a curvy body.

Other people have a fake ass. Other people are sticks getting it's just like, it's such a weird thing to say.

But my body was always like just something

to kind of make fun of, say, like, long boobs. And I didn't have long boobs, but it came out of like a sketch. And all this kind of stuff. And there was nothing I could say about it. And I was just like reading this today and I was like,

"What if I would have just gone into our office and been like, what the fuck?" Yeah. Like, you know, but that just wasn't, we had this, the dynamic was set from the top.

And that was just something that you just were like, obviously she doesn't mean it's just a joke. Yeah. But to like, put it in writing. Have five editors.

“And be like, but I feel like that's what she wants.”

I think she wrote this whole book to have. Soundbites or whatever and have people talk about it. So like, I find her very entertaining. I'm not surprised that she would bash someone's body in, you know, which is weird when her own daughter's been accused.

That's what I was going to say. Body shaming as far as like being too thin in this and that. And people actually criticized her on some scenes about her, her figure and her way. I just think like, you know,

the joy or what used to be the joy in watching those shows. It was less about them being mean and more. Really just about the trials and tribulations of female friendship. Yeah. Sometimes you're in sometimes you're out.

Sometimes yes. Yeah. You get upset and then you talk to your other friend. And then there's there's like relatable chaos because I feel like we all have some degree of that. Maybe without all the extreme wealth in some cases.

But it's some dinner in to say like say it. No, write it regret it. Or say it forget it right at regret. Yes. There's there's a difference I think and sometimes, you know,

Is it going to be somebody talking on video when they have to like deal with something?

Yeah. What you may get away with or what she might have gotten away with in a confessional is very different than how this reads. Yeah. And I think that maybe, you know, in writing the book, she's expressing herself the way she might have on the show.

Yeah. Maybe even up up it to some degree for the purposes that you mentioned. Have they had or whatever reason? Yeah. Definitely like, oh, I'm going to talk about, I'm going to burn down the bridge.

Maybe I've got another fucking lose. Yeah. And she actually doesn't have anything to lose. Yeah. So I don't know.

But I think it's important.

“What would you, what would you advise a certain to do in a situation like this?”

Yeah. Yeah.

She says if she responds, she's going to give credence to it.

It'll get her more attention. We'll get the whole thing more attention. I think if it's, if it's me in that situation and, and somebody makes a comment on my body, I would like it to not go as far as humanly possible. So her feeling for me like now if that was in some book right now.

Yeah. I would absolutely use it to my advantage. I think that this point, I would be like, I'd be like, yeah, this is my body. And you know what?

I, I'm healthy. I'm so grateful that I haven't been plagued with any kind of like, cancer. Yeah. I can play tennis.

I can play pickleball. I can run around. I can get if it's not the shape of body that turns you on. Yes, arena who's been accused of, you know, having a weird marriage. And whatnot.

Like, okay, didn't, didn't know you were looking at me to be sexy for you. Like, I would have made it like, I'd make it like a joke and put something back out there. Because I'm like, you've already brought me into it. So I might as well write the wave of the press, too. I also think in terms of response.

“It's like, I think you're better built to get into that kind of dialogue.”

Yeah. Whereas I feel like sudden isn't as comfortable in moments of confrontation. It's just the body shaming. Because it's like I know that Emily from OC has been very much body shamed. Heather from Heather Gays been body shamed.

You know, for just being a fuller, you know, different body than your typical size to girl. But I don't think that people realize the body shaming that goes on with bodies that are not. That where you get body shamed because they, you have a unique shape. Yeah.

You know, and it's like, or you are too thin, or you like to be thin, or whatever. And then people poke at that. And it's just kind of like, no, if we're all going to, if we're all going to, be up in arms about one kind of body shaming, then we should be up being mad about it all. You know, and be like, that's just not cool.

I agree. When we're all aging women, like, look, Lisa Ren has been blessed with being, yeah, having an incredible figure well into her 60s. That seems to be very, very effortless, very, and genetic. And one time I was trying, we were trying out for this talk show that didn't go.

“And people were in the room, just like, how do you keep that figure, you know, type of thing?”

And she goes, you know, actually I don't enjoy eating. I really don't. I don't love it. I don't know how I'm not that person. That's like a foodie that likes to eat.

It's like an inconvenience in my life. Okay. Well, then that's really nice. Because you brought crispy creams and I fucking had a donut. So I think it's great if you have automatic, like,

ozumphic brain since you were born and you never had to think about, like, good for you.

Yeah. I will say something because I've definitely struggled with my weight throughout the years. But like the most infuriating thing I have found is when, you know, you'll see a model. And they're like, oh, you just ate a cheeseburger right before the show. And it's like, maybe you did.

It's hard to believe that that would be the case because even if I would say, if I was any shape, I'm not going to eat a lot before I do any kind of appearance for the sake of, like, you know, bloating or wherever. Yeah. But it's just, it's so unrelatable.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it just drives a further wedge. Or it's trying to be that I'm so relatable. Yeah.

But you're not. It's like a cheeseburger. Yeah. Like what? I was just whatever.

I mean. So I think that's interesting. I do think Sutton will benefit though if she does remain mom on this. I think she will have the internet on her side. Yes.

And sometimes in situations like this, I would say way better for the internet and people to come to her defense than her even having to say it herself. It's always better. Yeah. I think if you're to say anything, you don't go after Lisa.

What I think you would say is I am so, because when people criticize my looks and stuff, I'll be like, you know what? Could you take it up with my two dead parents in heaven? Because they made me. Right.

“And this is their nose, combo, and like, oh, you should be pissed at them.”

You should be really mad at them. Because I'm just like, what are you supposed to do? Like what am I supposed to do? And like, so I, and we all get it, you're not special. Like I'm not actually like, oh, I'm getting more hate than the next person.

Anybody that has like more than three other followers probably have gotten some weird hate troll. Sure. But like, I think the thing to say is just to be like, I am so grateful that these legs work, that I can dance, that I'm this age, that I'm that my doctor's happy with my weight, that I'm happy with it. Like, you know, glad you, you know, and not even be like, not even one starkey thing.

Not even like, good luck with your book just something like, oh, oh, my gosh. You know, I, I, I, I love my body, you know, and it's not weird to me. Sorry, it's weird to you. It's definitely a approach from a place of strength. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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and free shipping when you visit NutriFull.com and enter promo code juicy scoop. That's NutriFull.com spelled "N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com promo code juicy scoop." Okay, so FIAF, so notice a few of Franklin, is the original second part of call her daddy before Alex Cooper became Colored Daddy alone, they had a show together.

In the early days of podcasting, two young girls in their 20s, it was a very sexual show. There were a lot, many fewer podcasts, and they were just really skyrocketed with their demographic. And then they broke up, and the story is very juicy, and a nut shell. In a nut shell, Sophia had a boyfriend who was an executive who said, "You actually be making more."

And so she went to Alex Cooper, and was like, "We should be making more." And Alex Cooper then they went to, they had a barstools, they partnered. And Dave was like, "I'll give you this much more." And so Alex was like, "Cool," and Sophia was like, "No." And then Alex was like, "Let's break up."

I'll take this deal. But the deal was only for one year. And then she leaves. And basically takes the advice that was given to her by Sophia. And the guy Sophia was dating.

And obviously sets a great deal for herself and has skyrocketed and built an incredible career.

Sophia has done great by any means as well. Yep. Is she at the Alex Cooper level? No. But I had her on my show years ago like during COVID.

It was like there was hate because we're mad that the two of you broke up.

We're mad that we're not having the dynamic and people taking sides. You know, oh, Sophia met a guy and it's the guy talking and she was greedy. And I was like, "I think guy or not." But yes, you guys deserve to be making more and yes, you should own it. So like I don't.

So anyway, now she has a book coming out. And I think it's, I think it's great because I think. Even if you have only listened to Alex Cooper since they broke up. And you just were like, I don't need to listen to Sophia. You're going to want to read the book.

Yeah, agreed. So I think it's great. I don't know.

“How do you feel about timing and I think it's kind of sparked timing that she lets several years pass?”

Yeah, I think in a, in, I see that point. I think in this case, you know, great that she's doing it.

I think the title is also amazing and really catchy.

Which is called Daddy Issues, I think. Oh, Daddy Issues, yeah, yeah. I love a great title. But I, the only thing about letting something go for too long is, if the world sort of feels like it's over,

then you're like, why are you bringing this up again? That's a good point. But in this case, I think Alex is obviously, she's incredibly successful. She's done really well for herself. And I do think she got the brunt of this split.

Yeah. Because, you know, Alex wanted to keep going so that they would ultimately, I think, get the, the IP for the first time. Right. One more year or something.

And so that has to be really painful. But on top of that, when you, whether you've been wronged or you don't get along with somebody anymore, and you see, have to watch them skyrocket.

“I see, that's why I think that is juicy.”

Yeah, like I want to know what happened that day, but I also want to hear like, where you mentally were six months later, and then, you know, whatever, three years after happened, I thought things are great. Yeah.

And then I had to open my phone.

She made a $120 million serious XM deal.

And you're like, I have a beautiful home. Yep. I'm doing better than 99.9% of the other podcasters. But my partner, and from what I recall, I wasn't like a big listener of the show,

is it was Sophia that made the expression I'm unwell, which is now the brand, the drink, the sweats are in target, and that she was more the comedic one. But then Alex was the one that I also think did the heavy lifting, because she actually knew how to edit and do all that type of work.

So I see both sides and how they met organically, and became such a good friends and everything. And when I talked to Sophia all the way back then, I go, look, you know, it's very hard. I've said this.

I'm like, there's more podcasters again. There's probably just as many Hollywood podcasters, you know, host breakups, as there are like real Hollywood marriages, because it's a really hard thing to keep going.

And you, and my advice to friends that started is just like, have a really clear understanding, even if it's just a contract that you put together yourself, of like, if one of us doesn't want to do it, who keeps the name or the name goes, yes, separate or whatever the case is,

and how do we work out how much work each person does?

“You know, you need to have all that conversation,”

but even when it comes down to language, yeah, like I think sometimes people forget in contracts, what would have been really smart and maybe they had it at some point or if they got into litigation, but like, you can write into contracts early on if we ever split, essentially.

Yeah. This is what the line is. And you hold that line or I hold that line, and if we don't, we're on the hook for it, right? There's some sort of a penalty.

Right. I think, you know, sometimes comes and especially in times of crisis, people think about it as an afterthought. Right. Instead of doing like a full risk assessment upfront,

which I think in this case would have probably prevented some of the messiness or the unbalanced. Yeah. I do think people are interested, like, you know, also what happened between her and Alex Earl.

There was like mystery around that. Yeah. That's now. So I do think even though. And then I also think that's unferatuated assume that, you know, that it's on common denominator because my theory about the Alex Earl thing

is I think that Alex Cooper does take podcasting seriously.

and so great on the Instagram and the TikTok, Alex Earl. And I don't know the answer, but I'm wondering if if the people were not choosing to listen to Alex Earl for an hour. Yeah.

You know, yes, they'll watch you for 90 seconds, but it's your outfit together while your boyfriend says in the back.

“But that's a whole, that's why a lot of influencers,”

the podcasting doesn't work because can you talk for an hour and a half? Yeah. Week after week and still tell first stories. And, you know, and so maybe there was a little bit of like, you need to do this this and this and she's like,

Hey, I'm making $10 million a year on doing Instagram and commercials.

Yeah. I don't need to be told by you how to change it. And I just don't want to do it. Yeah, I could just have been about it. Or she started to read negative comments,

which is like I think another reason why like movie stars and influencers leave podcasting because when they were doing movies and stuff, they didn't have this direct. Your voice is annoying. You said the same thing twice.

Why did you know? And they just are like, this isn't for me. Like mentally, this is not where I want to be. So I, it could have been something, it could have been something way juicier than before. Or it could have been something like that.

We just don't know.

And then they built new legally.

We're not going to bash each other. And Alex now being in this world for a while kind of knows,

“I think, to be like, can we make an agreement that we don't?”

Now do you think that Alex Cooper cares at this book is coming out? I think so. Yeah. I would. Yeah.

You know, I anytime you like, if you have a friendship that breaks up or anything, like, or maybe at least I do, it's sort of like, what are they going to tell people about me? If, if, you know, like, I think when you get to know somebody in your vulnerabilities, I think if I was Alex Cooper, I would not mention this tell the book comes out.

Great. I would then, you know, get an advanced copy from somebody. And then, you know, if there's obviously it's going to be her perspective. Obviously, it's not going to make Alex look like the greatest girlfriend in the world. And, but then with that, if I was to say anything, I do not say anything or I just say,

you know, I think it's really great. Everyone has a right to tell their story to write their memoir. It's not how I remember it. These are not the way I remember the conversations. But, you know, she's so successful and so am I.

And we shared a chapter of her lives together. And it just like a marriage it didn't last forever. Yeah. That's what I would say. I think that where I don't see anything wrong with that kind of response.

I think it will ultimately come down to what are the types of things that are included.

Yeah. If it's like he said, she said kind of arguments. Yeah. If Alex enters that chat, like nobody's ever going to win, because you're going to take the side of whatever you like better.

Right. But if there's any sort of strong allegations or, you know, she did X or Y that would actually cause any sort of reputational damage to to Alex, then I do think a response to your point of sort of taking the high road of just acknowledging the time. Like it was good while it lasted.

I saw respect to you. I think you have every right to be a creative and like speak your mind and do your thing. And just leave it there because it it all. I just don't think it's also just like I think this is a fascinating subject of adult female relationships that don't last, which is like why housewives franchise and why women are just women are more interested in knowing why a long-term girlfriend from ship broke up than why you left your husband.

Like it is more interesting because it's like,

“well, because you weren't fucking, then you should have been able to stay friends forever like sisters.”

And it's like, but if it's the father of your three kids, women are like, kick them to the curb, who cares? You know, they're not going. No, you should make this work out. No, they're like, no, he's awful.

But if it's a friend, it's like, well, yeah, could you? And just sometimes it's be a troll and sometimes it's just like, I, I had looked fondly on the time we spent together, but I maybe don't miss you in my life day-to-day, you know, or I do. Like, it will be interesting if, if how intimate she gets out of her feelings.

Like, does she say, yeah, I saw the photos of Alex is wedding. And yeah, it made me sad not to be there. It made me not, like, those type of things where you're like, I wouldn't expect to be, I'm fine where I am, but when I see it, and I see it, does it, and I see, oh, when the corner is, you know, a mutual friend of ours,

and we used to fucking laugh at our 800 square foot apartment, and, you know, wonder if we were ever going to make it. Like, I think that's where it's like, intriguing.

if she just got the deal meaning, I don't know if she's written it or not. But I hope she listens to this. I think those are the things that people want to, like, hear the most, and we'll make it the most successful book. She did say she was like, I took me this long, because I had to, like,

let go of a lot of ego to, like, face this. I think from a perspective of. And time really does heal all wound and give perspective.

“And yes, and there's, you know, that's why people, like,”

don't send that email to a house. Yes. Or that text, like, maybe write it, maybe think about it. Maybe put it in your notes. See, how you feel today's later, maybe read it to somebody, like, you know.

Yeah, I also wonder if it's because, you know, for better words,

there's this always subtext that women, I absolutely think that they should.

But you're supposed to lift each other up and you're supposed to, like, be together and do things together and not harm each other and root for one another. And, you know, ignore natural things like jealousy and, you know, and when that's sort of an impossible standard. Yeah.

And I think when two women don't end up, you know, or they're, their friendship ends up fracturing, you know, for the sake of vulnerabilities in the fact that as women, we know how much when you're close to somebody, again, you divulge, you share, you, you know, explore certain things that you wouldn't necessarily do that when there's a break.

It has to feel a little bit like betrayal. Yeah. And I think as, as consumers or of people that we, when we watch and we love friendships together, we sort of feel betrayed by the break as well. Yeah.

Because we want to believe that, like, no friendships like that actually, they, they can work. They should work. So you kind of are, it leaves you curious as to what went wrong. Yeah.

“And so, and you may never, you know, so it's like I think people will be,”

definitely excited to write. And then, of course, that won't be the whole book. But unfortunately, when people do books like this, you're like, you get the book. And it's like, so my mother came from Italy and my father. And you're like, okay, okay.

And then it's like, and then I took the kickball back. And that's what I knew. I was a badass little girl. And you're like, okay, she's only eight. Okay.

Can you go in? Yeah. Oh, okay. We lost the virginity. Okay.

Okay. Now this is getting kind of, okay. Now I'm just getting to use your, and then I'm at Alex. And you're like, okay.

Okay. And then so it's like, I mean, I wrote a memoir. And I did have the editors say, let's start it at 18. Yeah. I had like, and now I wish I knew what those pages were. Because they were probably pretty good.

And I don't remember what stories they cut. But I was like, I carry you the book is called.

You'll never blew ball in this town again.

Let's get to the dating. That's what it should be, you know. No one cares. You know, everyone thinks their own like heritage is super interesting. But it's really not to someone else.

Like what village your grandpa came from. They want. Yeah. They want an exploration into essentially what they know, but not like too deep away from what they care for.

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This exclusive limited time offer won't last long and you won't want to miss out. So Colton underwood, the famous bachelor who then eventually came out as a gay man. He was in traders. So we are recording this before I see the traders reunion. However, we've seen a scene where he gets upset and leaves and leaves.

So run is like, oh, you better believe I'm going to talk about it and brings up the fact that he obviously was weirdo and made his fiance Cassie from the show's life a nightmare.

“What is your opinion of him and advice to him in this situation?”

Now that it's got brought up again. People do forget about this stuff. Yes. I think the majority of people forget they're like, oh cool. Colton's on traders.

He already did a show about like virgins on an island. I don't think it was a big hit, but he's already had his other. So he came out with a companion series about it about coming out. He then got married and I think they have a child. And then he did this co-hosted this dating thing about like older virgins.

And now we got this. I think people had forgotten. They had accepted that he is a gay married man. Father who's a cute guy who's a personality. And some people are just like, oh, I see that cult like that.

Some people forget that he was ever a bachelor. You just like forget. And to this to be brought up in the trader's thing. First by Michael Rape, of course, which then he was criticized for. Because he was like, if someone can keep a secret.

It's the person who kept their secret of their sexuality for, you know, 20.

He didn't say he never even said that.

“But if someone could keep a secret, I think it's you.”

Which that show is just pointing at everything. And then he took that on and was like, oh, because I lived in pain for 27 years. Not truly being myself. Your homophobic and then people 99% of the people were on Michael Rape. But what do you think about this bubbling up again?

And how do you how do you even rectify that situation? I think just to go back to the Lisa part of this. It's like, it's no different than remember when she was like, Were people doing coke in your bathroom? Oh, yeah, it's good.

You know, yeah, the she's the her iconic saying. And yes, they're iconic and I think what she said to him at some point. Like, I do think it'll, I mean, it's none of this is a situation to laugh about. But I guess neither is drug use when you're a mother of two kids. Yeah, right.

These things have repercussions. When you say things like that in the way that they're said in that public form. Things do tend to stick. I think I will say I, I didn't watch the bachelor. So I was not introduced to him at that point.

I did not know about the issue with the woman that he was dating or engaged. And dating or I don't know. No, they were engaged. They were engaged. And then she broke up with him.

“And that's what he put the track runner car.”

And then she had to get a restraining order. And he also harassed her sending her horrible text and her family members text. For like a year from anonymous numbers. And then he also was like, I'm getting threatening text too. And the whole time it was him.

So he did like a catfish thing on himself. The only thing that I feel like which is really fucking weird. Let's just make it on yourself.

But something about this is giving like.

I feel like if he could have addressed it. Like fully and head on.

“Back then, I think he did and that's why he got it.”

Like with the whole explanation of what happened. I mean, I'm sure there's some statement somewhere where he's like, I was going through a tie. What happened was we forgave him because everybody knows someone who. Is gay.

Yeah. And couldn't be honest. Early in their life. So when he is like. This is it at first.

For some reason we just said, well, then we excuse your weird behavior to this girl.

And the girl is beautiful.

So people aren't like, well, her life sucks. She already met somebody else and got married. So I think people are like, she's fine. So he still did all that. And I guess he had good agents and the show went and people wanted to see it.

“And and he, I mean, I think he's going to keep getting work.”

What are you going to do? Yeah, you just have to say, I, he probably will be like, I already addressed it. I think if he did address it, that's fine. I know like at the time when, because I watched traders religiously. I loved him.

I desperately want to be on the civilian one. Yeah. But I totally get out right away. He, I remember looking it up. And I was like, this isn't a full picture.

Whatever it was or however it was addressed was not like what you would need to do in that situation to sort of like free himself of it. That road was not taken, which in my opinion, just again, from situations that I've been in similar to this, maybe there is some sort of agreement of what he can and cannot talk about or she can, did she has she ever spoken up?

The girlfriend. No, I mean, I think she's living a, you know, pretty private life now. But no, I mean, the story was, I remember it was just like, it was, you know,

shocking. It was awful. And when it was first happening, we just thought he was a weird

straight guy. He was like stalking his girlfriend who doesn't want to be with him anymore. And then I feel like when we found out he was gay, I feel like women are like so forgiving

“and supportive of someone they're like, Oh, so that's why he acted so”

awful and was so possessive and weird and scary. And it's like, well, that really shouldn't, sure you can forgive people whatever, but I mean, it's just interesting that like, a guy that does all these passes more opportunities and everything, but he is cute and he is kind of fun to watch on TV. And so like, I can also see why he keeps getting work.

Yeah, I think at the, you know, sometimes with people, like, I think, I think Colton, again, there's a legibility about him. I think when people want to like somebody and that person messes up or disappoints, they will, if there is an excuse to be given, they will latch on to it and move on because they like that person. They still want to see them.

They want to engage in their world, whatever it is. If somebody does not have that kind of a reputation or is not of interest or has had a really hard time in the media, per se, the opposite will happen, right? Like, they will go harder and harder and harder on the hate. That doesn't seem to have happened in this case.

So I think if he, if he did fully at some point did address it, just let it go. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think it's worth. You know, I think he'd be better off finding other mediums and avenues to like, showcase more of who he is outside of those things. Yeah.

Who he is as a dad, like, what is his own personal life like? What are his interests? Things that go beyond just if you know him on traders and you know him for being that kind of a player. Or you know him from the back of what he thinks. What do you think his future is?

Do you think he gets, because where do you go from this? Are we really going to see him hosting another show? I kind of think this might, maybe he will go away kind of. Has he written a book? I think he probably has most bachelor's have.

Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. I don't know. I think he can survive.

I think he's done everything he can do, you know, and. But I mean, who knows, you know, someone like this that has this kind of following. Could he have a clothing company? Could he, you know, people come with with ideas and things. So by the way, he can, he can still make a tremendous living just from doing stuff on social media.

Yeah. But I will say the timing of this and with Ren is book coming out and her pissing off a lot of other people and saying, you know, off-color things will work to his advantage. Because if she does come for him on that trader stage during week or two weeks when she's been coming after everybody. Yeah.

I do think there will be. From a public's perspective, more leniency towards him.

So this girl, I don't have her name in front of me. But this is the girl who had this HG TV show on. All ready to go and. So it's wasn't her first show and she does, you know, remodeling and everything on the HG TV. And while she was filming something, she was, you know,

it's interesting. Oh, shoot, she said, far the end word. And then she goes, oh my god, why did I say that? Can you please delete that? And the guy goes, well, no, because I've been filming this whole time. So I can't just like stop.

And she's like, oh, fuck my life. Then it got out. And once it got out, she said, well, that this person said, I'm going to release it unless you give me money. And I guess she said, no, and then he did release it. But then HG TV just completely canceled the whole show.

It was like done everything.

“We were just like, no, which I think, yeah, probably the right corporate decision or network decision to make.”

All right, what's your advice for her? I'm going forward. Oh, away. Because I think if in a moment like that, if that word comes to mind,

like, that would never come to my mind if I mess something up.

I'd be like, yeah, lower, sorry. Can I say that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would say for other words, like, would come to mind. That would not, like, I don't think in moments of like,

I agree. It's in her vocabulary. It's just like the Tourette sky. Yeah. Tourette's or not.

Why? Yeah. I mean, exactly. I know with, with, like, Tourette's if it's the same sort of a thing. Like, can, does it just come into your mind or, like, is it?

I don't know enough about it to, like, understand the process of, like, thought to. I don't know. I mean, I guess I guess with somebody. I mean, when you listen to unrestricted songs, it's all in those.

Of course. So even if you didn't say it, but you had Tourette's,

maybe then you could say it, but I don't know.

But like, in, in her instance, I just, remember, um, oh my god. What was the story of the lady that had, like, the white hair, and she was southern, and she was, like, a cooking lady. Oh.

And she got canceled and she had a couple of restaurants. With the restaurants? Wasn't, no, that's. She didn't have the butter, but her name was, like, oh, I know if you feel like screaming in their car.

Polydine. Yes. Did she add something like this happen? Yeah. She was, it was a hot mic or something.

I don't know where she's from. I know. Does that make a difference? Does it make a difference? It doesn't make a difference.

But I do feel like you're from the south. Would it make it worse or better?

“Or I don't think, I think it means you probably”

have more work to do. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think that there are innate, you know,

when it comes to issues of, like, race and racism. Like, that's either, you know, there's the conscious version of it, where you absolutely know you are,

and then the unconscious version of it. Right. Um, who's to say in this case, what her situation is,

what her background is, if it was acceptable to use that kind of language, while she was growing up. So maybe maybe she doesn't use it in her personal life, but she's been around it enough where it came out.

Mm-hmm. It's not acceptable. Uh, she needs to go away. She needs to probably educate herself, understand why that word came out of her mouth.

Um, um, and revisit it. Which one would you educate? What do you do to educate someone?

Because I remember when, um, Stasi, yeah. Shutter got in her situation,

which it was not this, but it was a time in 2020, where somebody just kind of, like, remembered some,

unsavory things that she had set on podcast episodes. And she'd had a podcast for a very long time. And one was about another cast member, who was black, and the other one was,

um, her, being annoyed about the Oscars. Mm-hmm. Kind of being so diverse.

And I'm just being vague,

“because I don't remember exactly what she said,”

and she's doing great now, but it took a lot of years. And she lost everything. They fired her from the show. They,

that her agent, her publicist, her publisher,

because at the time she had a second book,

eventually the second book came around. But at that time, it was like ready to go, and they pulled the deal. They were about to go on a,

a tour for the podcast, however, no one was touring at that time, because of COVID, so,

but that got canceled. And then, um,

but she came out pregnant, which I think is, maybe,

“the second best thing that could happen.”

So then people laid off, and, and then she made her way back, she wrote the book, but,

but her, um, one time the person I'm presenting her, was like, we'd love to have,

I, I would love to have her, have her first interview with you. And of course, like,

I was thrilled. And I was, um, uncovering it. I was kind of,

I was understanding of what she was going through, and felt bad, and was like, just let her have her pregnancy. But he said she did,

because she really did go to work. She, she met with a diversity coach, and read these books,

and everything, and really had a better understanding of, why she got to that place, why she was in that place, of such privilege to feel,

annoyed, to talk about the things that she did talk about, that area like, we'll look about, look from this perspective.

So in the end,

like she's doing amazing,

and nobody, nobody seems to care, you know, what happened five years ago, when they enjoy her hosting a reunion on,

on the Hulu network. So, Well, it's also because she hasn't messed up again. Yeah.

Like, like, like, that's the difference between, somebody releasing a statement that says,

I really need to educate myself, versus the person that actually does go and educate themselves, because just like you said, there had been comments along the way that were on savory. Yeah.

That's that same issue, seeping through. So unless you go to the root of the problem, and actually like address it as a human being, yeah.

It's going to sneak up and you're going to trip up again. So there was, there was somebody that I was advising during that period, where I, I said to them like,

I work with you,

“but you need to like actually go to school.”

Like, I want you to go to school. I want you to pay for like, a class on learning about, bias and race and issues,

and when you were done with that, then we can revisit this and put a plan forward. Yeah. And their recovery was pretty quick. They came back after the fact they were able

to address it and move on. Yeah. That's just, yeah, that's interesting. Okay.

The backgums. You know, the backgums have been public people for many years. They have the ultimate sticky, daughter-in-law situation.

And how do you feel about that whole situation? With Brooklyn and, Nicola. Nicola. Nicola.

I think it's a similar type of thing where, you know, not so different to necessarily Alex Cooper or even, you know, the Duchess of Sussex at one point,

which is like, people come into the situation with a preconceived notion about who they are, whether they've heard something or they've decided, and I think in this case,

with Nicola,

she's never really been that,

you know, beloved, I think the beloved family it was, is the backgums. And I think for people sometimes,

when there's somebody that gets to marry into a situation like that, even though she's, of course, a well-feet beyond means, but like the fame and like they are an iconic family,

they are a part of like, you know, or like guys, of course. There's a legacy there,

right? Beyond just being, on whatever track she was on, that I think from the get-go, kind of,

did not set her up. Again, if you don't tell, if you're not able to tell your own story, like other people will do it for you, right?

And so she, she had never really addressed, who she was separate from him. I think she was trying to act. Yeah.

So then when you come into a situation like this, and there's sort of no barometer on who you are, it's really easy to pick apart somebody during a time like this. Yeah. The other part of this is like,

you know, when things are relatable,

“and I think everybody knows somebody that has either married,”

dated, experienced, experimented with somebody, that their family or friends did not like. Right.

And so when you get that vibe, if you've been on the other side, and where you have not liked somebody that somebody close to you has been with, you're more likely emotionally to side with, the side that's struggling with it,

and struggling with that person. So it already puts her like kind of in an odd position. Yeah. Even though like I have a daughter in two boys, I always think,

I've always thought of it more like,

you don't like the husband of your daughter, you know? Yeah. And, well, no one's ever good enough. I feel like there's that.

But I've always remembered one time Chris Jenner when I, the first time I was like hearing about earlier early on, before they had ever had a show in your friendly.

wait,

Kim got married at 18 to this like older guy.

He was like in his 30s. He had four kids. Yeah. And men and men got married, you know,

in Vegas or something at 18. And I was like, oh my god, like, how did you deal with that to Chris?

And she just said, well, well, I embraced him. And I,

you know, included them in everything. And she didn't say this part. But I realized why it was smart. It was like,

you know, you got to remain being there. Because then once, it doesn't work out. God forbid,

he's abusive or something. Sure. Our cheat daughter. And she wants out. She's still in good relationship with you.

So she can go to your house. And if it's like,

if you're with that piece of trash,

I'm not talking to you, then they're so embarrassed. Then the isolation starts. And they're so embarrassed that they might stay. And I think even with a guy.

It's really hard as the mom because you're just like, okay, like this woman hates me. And I don't know what to do. And he's my son.

And again,

“I just think you have to be the bigger person.”

And you have to continue to invite him or you know. I think that's absolutely. I mean, you have to keep doing it.

It's my birthday. Do you think you could meet me for lunch? And you know, no, no,

you know, what are you going to do? And then you just have to know for your own soul as a parent. Like,

I tried. I texted, you know, four times a year, no matter what,

no matter how many years went, I sent a card, dotted it up. But I also get a certain point as a parent. You're like,

all right, I'm, you're an adult too. So like, if you don't want to mess with me,

like, I'm not going to keep putting my heart on the soul. But the chances of someone who gets married at 22 years old or whatever he was, actually saying married forever is very low.

So I'm like, I think eventually they'll break up. Yeah. And you don't want to have too much time pass with your son. Yeah.

By the way, you're even just from, I'll say personal experience. You're 100% right. I think when you,

that, that isolation piece is so key because it, it, it ends up creating this like, it's an us against the world dynamics.

Right. And then what usually ends up happening is then one person after being in that bubble starts to decide, like, maybe I actually want to see what the world is like.

Yeah. And then the other person's like, no, no, no,

stay in this with me. It's just us. And then that's usually where like the friction starts to begin. Yeah. I think in in dynamics like this,

but I, I think, you know, for those two, I haven't understood why at least,

I, I totally get wanting to express yourself and, and share what you're going through. That's,

“that's something I think all people want,”

whether you're famous or you're not. Mm. But what the purpose and the timing was, for them to put out that statement now, when there have been rumors for years,

now that something is off in the dynamic. Mm. Um, I think, you know,

one thing that I would have advised against in a statement, like that, is the pointing of the fingers with specific examples. Oh, you mean like with the,

how they said about the wedding and the day and the dog. And the dog. And because the dog. That, um,

they had asked, I think her to either house some puppies after the fire or donate. They asked the Victoria,

and she never responded or didn't engage.

I, I think people, you know, as much as it's interesting to read and see all the memes, and like every,

like that was the joyful week on the internet, and a lot of ways. But like, at least for, not certainly not for them.

Um, like that like, you, when you do that, you open up a whole new can of worms.

And the focus then becomes unlike, well, did that happen? Like they found the DJ that did the wedding, to like ask,

he's like on the today show or something. Like this is, let me set it straight, right? I've wondered about that DJ thing.

I thought maybe, I think that the Beckham's, like said, can you go do these interviews? Because I think he came off,

it was good for the Beckham's, because he was like, didn't he say that? Like you know,

“I think he actually said it was like weird.”

Oh, no, okay, so maybe the name, like I feel like, somebody must have given their approval for him to go,

because why would you jeopardize being a person that's the DJ that's telling the secrets? Well, at the same time, you know,

not forgetting who her side of the family is.

Yeah. There could be,

he may never have to DJ again.

That's what I'm saying. So to to eat the story, because then it was like, we were hearing like, no,

it was Mark Anthony who said it, and it was a salsa or something that would, from say, put your hands on the hips.

And then we also heard, no, they already had their first dance. Yeah. They weren't,

this was not the first dance. And like, and people didn't have their phones, because it was a big high profile wedding. So yeah.

And then also just like, you know, they're rich, but the parents family is richer, and they don't have to do,

you know, supposedly get a million dollars a month. They don't really have to do anything ever again. Why not just,

“I don't know what this avoided this is what I think.”

I think, again, you're in the relationship with the person that's set to isolate you. It becomes,

I just don't want to fight. So if I bring up my mom or if I go to see my mom, you are mad at me for a week. You mentally torture me. You give me this silent treatment.

Fine, I won't go to the lunch. And that's what happens, like I mean, yeah,

the more common dynamic is, is a man doing it to a woman, where she's like, I want to see my friends. No,

I hate all your friends. Right. Okay. Well, I want to see my sister,

and then he finds something that, you know, that's a story more. And then, if you get caught lying,

then he's like, you've lied, you saw your sister. And you're like, fine,

I won't see much. And then, see you next to, you know, now you're being hit,

and you have no one to call. Correct. Yeah. So it's like, if it,

maybe it was some sort of declaration to her. Yeah. Yeah. I am,

I am yours behind the scenes. Yeah. And privately, and now I'm making a public, but we've sort of seen this scenario

play out before, and it has not, it hasn't, you know, necessarily,

I don't think anybody would say, like, that was a slam dunk. Right. Right.

Like it didn't come with a lot of repercussions. So, again, like, I don't know what the point of it was.

Yeah. And I think, without that intention, it's hard to kind of feel badly for them, especially because they're incredibly privileged.

Right. And they do both have parents that are healthy, and like, like, how bad, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Like how bad is it, beyond just maybe not fully embracing one another? Yeah. I will say though,

like, there are certain times, and like,

my team always will like,

they'll know, because I'll usually like end up like, on the floor,

“because I think it's like the best response ever.”

What David did when he was asked? Which was what? He was sort of like, he was at some other event. Maybe Davos.

And he said, children are allowed to make mistakes. And I think he said, such errors are part of learning, and that parents sometimes have to let that happen.

Yeah. And I was sort of like, that is a great response. It's like dead in the what we're unfazed, we're unbothered.

This is our kid. And we're not going to pick a part. What he said, and we're not going to try to get the, the audience on our side of when it's an internal family problem.

Really? Like no notes. Genius. Great. You know,

Prince Andrews, but a big problem for years for the royals, since like 2017 with this, um, photo came out with Gille Maxwell.

And of course, Virginia, who has since passed, but she really was the person who wrote the book and told all about it. He said,

I never, this photo is Photoshopped. I said, oh,

I never went to that nightclub.

And she said, he was sweating all over many. He said,

“I had a disease that caused me not to sweat.”

And, you know, he did that BBC interview, which was shocking. And in your knowledge, did he have,

did he just go do that rogue? Or did they, at view, think the royal publicist, or whoever told him to,

because he could do that interview? I remember, I saw, there was, I think there's a doc,

you know, it's not a documentary, but it's, It's, um, maybe a movie or series on Netflix where they like went into it. If I recall properly, I think he ended up pushing it like he was advised against doing it. And ultimately was like the one that was like, no, I'm doing it. I can do it. I can pull this off. Okay. So with with this now, he's been arrested. Um, does this reflect horribly on the royal family? I don't, I mean, I think it, I think once this came out six years ago, the damage was done. And now at this point, you're like, yeah, if you have to go to prison, whatever, let him go. Um, obviously, you know, he is in the royal family.

It's just there's a little bit of a question like if they're going to find anything else, how any royals were ever implicated, but it doesn't seem like they are.

Like, um, and it definitely seemed like at some point, whether it's King Charles or the palace or whomever was made aware that some worship was about to go down, because that's when all of a sudden, now he's, we're taking his title away.

Yeah, and we're putting, we're taking his residence away, and we're taking security away when the entire time up until that point, he had all of those things.

And the kids are King Charles, yep, Princess Anne, yes, then Andrew, and then like Edward Edward and then Andrew's a youngest, I actually don't know, but those are the four. And the other Edward, Edward, whatever, whatever he's doing, he's just sort of, he's doesn't do anything wrong, but he doesn't, he's not, you know, a juicy topic. And he's so far down the line that, you know, yeah, we're really matter.

“But I think it's good in the time since obviously, you know, the difference once, you know, King Charles became King Charles.”

And then was clearly briefed about all of this, I think he did do the right things by removing that at a time before the public ought to know everything and it was new information. Rather than doing it right now would seem like, how did you not know, even though they don't have power, like, as far as like with the country. It is, I mean, you know, in a hundred years, if this is made into whatever form of movie and TV is. It is pretty juicy. Like, I wonder, is the crown done? I mean, or could there be another season of the crown that brings us up to this time where he's being, you know, taken up.

I mean, I feel like this, I feel like the crown got us so far. Yeah, I feel like there's a whole nother series waiting for this last past chapter into that includes this and, you know, obviously, other transitions, etc.

And and potentially as William and Kate obviously ascend a bit higher, but this is, you know, at the end of the day, like there's always a bad apple.

You know what I mean? the ultimate battle. This is like, you know, I would say, because, you know, there's that photo of abstine and gillain on the porch of that like frogs, whatever, there's some house of theirs, what's it called? Was it at Frogmore? Yeah, it's a frogmore, they're clearly on the porch of that. So like,

“they were there, they had, you know, there's now could have been, they just had a tea, you know, who knows?”

But I think that's where it's like, oh my god, you know, um, if anything more nefarious happened, like, on the actual royal property, that would be a lot. Um, so we'll say, we'll see what happens. Yeah. Um, okay. John and Caroline, Caroline Beset, we're watching the show, love story. During that time, you were a young girl. So you were not in the position you are today. But I thought it would be kind of fun to do like a hypothetical. Um, when they were in the news,

all the time and their arguments got caught on tape and people were, you know, trying to say, are you going to have a baby? Or is someone cheating? She's a bitch, you know, all the articles all the time because we were so obsessed with their style and who they were. Um, how do you, I mean, what is your opinion of that? I'm just here you are this girl that, you know, um, didn't

was not a thirst bucket. Yeah. Yeah. I, well, first I'll say it's interesting because I, again,

I remember the day that that plane crashed. So I, I, and I remember the significance of the two of

“them, uh, more so him. But, you know, I think for her in wanting to maintain a more private life,”

which I understand, um, I don't think there was ever an opportunity or an interview or a lot of times where she was sort of able to say like, this is who I am. And as a result, the, the, the mystique around her and the not knowing created a much larger. They said there's very little audio of her voice at all. Yeah. And, and, and look, I mean, it's even hard. I, I think in, in the show,

maybe who she is or who she was. Um, and, and what's interesting is like, at least for me and my perspective, how, how the show is defining her is sort of different than how I envision her in my mind. I didn't know that she was as, you know, if, if they're doing a perfect portrayal, um,

as sort of, like, confident and swive as she was. Like, I kind of always thought she was more,

I mean, according to Carl Radswell, she really was like the most confident girl she ever met.

“Yeah. Um, like that doesn't necessarily come through in the photos. I think you can see”

she sort of always positioned and it looks to him with a lot of admiration or she's showing a lot of joy and expression on her face that this was like truly, you know, a love story for them and maybe she did not want to allow any more, um, any more intrigue into their life. But I think by not doing that, you kind of cause a bigger, you know, a bigger, commotion around yourself. Yeah. Because it's, it's so not acceptable. It's so, I mean,

not acceptable. It's so inaccessible and it's so exclusive. It was such a different time because I'm like, you know, it'd be so weird now if a girl that looked like her and lived in New York in 2026. Yeah. Didn't have an Instagram account and wasn't doing great. Get ready with me these and things. Um, and then she just didn't really want that life and didn't like it. But maybe that's because it wasn't on her to maybe that time of where the paparazzi would

follow you around and write stories about you. I'm thinking that probably was much harder life. Yes.

“Then just be able to put it out all yourself. Yeah. Because, I mean, truly, I think Instagram and,”

you know, doing your own social media is what killed that whole industry of, of magazines, because people are able to say, you know, how they feel about things, what they're doing, what do they say? Well, you see them. Like now we see new photos. Like I remember I used to like, go to my mom's office and like I couldn't wait if she had like an us weekly or people. Right. Like what is Mary Kate wearing? Like, yeah. Now it's no problem. Actually, they're still

kind of exclusive. But like, Mary Kate, now they don't have Instagram's, they're kind of off the grid. Again, there's a lot of, I'd say that they're way more papped than other celebrities that are on social media and are, you know, sharing more stuff. I wonder if that's going to be like a sign of like true status in in a little bit where it's like, I don't have to be online. Correct.

“I like it. I think in a way it is. I think it is kind of comb to that point. Like it's quite luxury.”

It's like, I don't need to post about my out. I don't need to film every little thing I do. I don't need the public to say how great I am. I don't like I'm so confident I need. Don't

because I'm always just like, you know, when I even know, I see like a Britney Spears taking

to the, you know, for you again. Yeah. I'm like, she must get something by seeing that 100,000 people liked it and, you know, 50,000 shared it. Even though she cut off the comments, it's like she needs that little drug, you know, she needs that bump of like, okay, people are looking and talking about me. And I think it does say a lot when a pretty girl is just that. Like, like, I wonder if like old school social lights will come back into play. Yeah.

And that they, they are not accessible that you cannot follow them. But it'll be, I don't know. I think that it's so saturated and with the AI and everything, I feel like there is going to be some way that's going to start to emerge in the next couple of years. That's like, maybe not the alpha generation, which is after Z. But like the betas, like I wonder if like those parents are not going to be all about the iPad in front of their kids face all the time and are like,

yeah, you know, they seem to be more protective of their kids. And like, I feel like that generation might be different and it might be like, no, there's that world. And then there's the real world that isn't being chronic, kind of old, whatever. No, I certainly agree with that. But I do, I do think, and I think I said this earlier, it's like if you don't tell your story, somebody else will. And exactly what is happening with this show and how this is playing out.

Yeah, especially for a generation that did not, like, was not alive when they were around.

Yeah. This is like their first. Yeah, like I wonder what they did have like where she was,

their funny dynamic. And maybe you're right, maybe if there wasn't such a mystery, maybe they

wouldn't have been as hounded. Because I do feel like with other famous couples that were mysterious at one time. And like the, you know, like the Royals who then moved to America and said, the interest has died down as far as like, what are they doing? Where are they going? What is she wearing? Because they, she does have Instagram and they, they did have a TV show. And so I feel like that's probably good for them or maybe not. But definitely it's like the hunger is not what it was

five years ago to just get any glimpse into this mysterious life. And I don't think it ever

“has to be or in their case, especially like I think it would have still made sense if it was just like”

one thing. Yeah. You know, maybe it was one beautiful interview that they even did together or

something. It doesn't have to be all that like, and now I'm on the cover of this magazine. I'm doing this and like a full-blown campaign. She doesn't need to justify her existence. She's not like, she's beautiful. He loves her and she loves him that like that's sort of enough. But I think there's this sort of notion amongst people. It's like if you're not willing to to show us who you are, then like, also, what are you hiding? Yeah. Which, again, like pushes the

intrigue. Right. Right. Um, okay. Last one we're talking about army hammer. That was an interesting time when especially now with the Epstein files of cannibalism and that he wrote girls that he was cheating on his wife with things like I want to take out your rib and barbecue and eat it and all that. And then, but then what it really all came out and they did the documentary, which by the way, by the time that Doc came out, I felt like people were over the story. And also it's in his defense.

It sounded like well. He was into the 50 shades of gray kind of thing and these girls participated and yeah, probably fucked in the fuck them up who wouldn't. But they didn't get a lot of sympathy and again, the interest had weighed. Now he is doing a podcast like the rest of us and his mom, too. She has her own or she's just a guest on it. Oh, her mom, it was just I think announced. Her mom now has a podcast mom or his mom. His mom has a podcast where she will be interviewing

men who have been canceled. Okay. All right. Yeah. Um, I was really into the story. I had his aunt

“on who'd written this book years prior. I remember that actually Casey and um, but then like like”

everybody else, that's kind of like well. Okay. Yeah. Here's your podcast and I think he's doing okay. I don't know. I personally don't think eventually sure he might be acting again in something. He'll

never be at that movie star like status that he was because he's older and there's other people

now that they've been, you know, that are just as hot and everything. And it seemed like a lot of the things that he was getting work were kind of duds after his initial like, um, saying with Timothy Shalame and but he kept getting these parts because he like was good looking and then when this whole thing happened, he essentially like got canceled. I don't know. Like, what do you, what is your prediction of him? I feel like people don't care. I don't think people care, but I also don't

necessarily want any more. I don't know either, but I also feel like that was such a big cancellation. That was such a crazy thing. And again, it was that that weird COVID time that people were just like thirsty for anything to like latch on and get obsessed with. And, but now I, I'm like,

“yeah, it's just, it's so weird that after a few years, you're like, oh, remember that whole”

thing about army camera? What do you eat girls ribs? And he just was like, yeah, I was a cheater and I was fucked up and, um, I wrote sick shit to girls that I was cheating on my wife with. And you're just like, okay. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it also takes so much today for anybody to be a movie star, especially like having to kind of start over and having this. I mean, like, I feel like Glen Powell has been like in the running and like the closest thing we've

had to sort of like that mold of an old school movie star. And even still, it's not like guaranteed box on success. So like for him, for people to want to take a risk on him, from a creative standpoint,

that like did not rise to the level. Yeah. Um, but, you know, maybe he can, you can just be a podcast

“to be a podcast or a podcast or a live. Again, maybe sometime, like in, he may have this amazing”

personality that we don't know about because we only know him to be an actor and like maybe

in on an off-can of all, you know, like, like, we don't know. Yeah. We don't know yet. If he gives people

“a reason to like care for a different reason. Yeah. Then maybe there's a chance. Well, I'm so glad”

that you came on to school and just gave us your really unique and professional perspective on these

topics that just consume our conversations. So thank you so much for coming after having me with

“so fun. Thank you. Thank you. And everybody go to Heather McDonald.net. If you want to join”

Patreon or go to wise guys, comedy club in Salt Lake City and come see me March 20th and 21st to shows a night. And I will see you then. Thank you.