Lala Kent and Ambyr Childers on Cheaters, Friendship and Dating

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[MUSIC PLAYING] Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop, Get Ready for a Juicy One. Because I have the one-time enemies. Turns best friends, podcasts, stars of unlikely affair, lawlacant, amber chillders.

Welcome to Juicy Scoop girls. Yeah, thank you for having us. I just love that you guys have become so close in your friendship and everything. And I can't wait to get into like, how that became and all of it.

But first, can we just talk about me?

Oh, thanks. [LAUGHTER] Just what to say, I'm so excited. Because May 9th is my show at the Avalon Theatre. It's sold out in the first week, thanks to the Patreon

peeps and everybody. And we're just really excited. And Chris Frenjola and Brandy and Julia

“are going to be there for my live, Juicy Scoop,”

and the Avalon Theatre. So when you see all the stuff about Netflix as a joke, just know that your girl is made it. Thanks. You made it.

You're an icon. You made it long ago. Now I-- thank you. We have so much to talk about. And I remember we were friends first.

You came on the show, Lala. And I was fan of watching you. And then I met your ex. And I did find him very funny. And you guys fun together.

And we saw that there was some social media shit that kind of went on with the messiness of he having an ex-wife who was Amber and two children with her. And I just want to get a little bit of the backstory

of how much you cared to share, Amber, of like-- that you guys were separated. You had issues. You're like on and off kind of-- can you just share a little bit on that?

Well, we were never on and off, maybe to him.

OK. In my world, I was very much married. He was air quote-working, making movies. I had two little kids. Yes, there had been infidelity in my marriage for a very long time.

How did you first find out that that was a pattern in your relationship? I was very early on. Very, very early. Was it just a flight?

Did you see the phone or something? It was everything. Phone, text messages, and then eventually-- you know, you just catch on and you see people's patterns. And then you notice that every you live under the same roof

as someone, every you know, when something is off and not right. So eventually, I just kept staying. I'm like a hopeless romantic, and it's so weird to hear myself. Now, even after the marriage and another long-term relationship and being single and dating now, like I--

“and I think it stems from, I grew up Mormon, right?”

So like, oh, yeah, you had that U.S. kind of--

not that you were never raised Mormon, but erased around a lot

of Mormon's parents. Oh, yeah, my dad was a Mormon. Yeah, my dad was a Mormon. So I was a Mormon, OK. He had left the church before I came into the world,

but yeah, my dad's entire family was very LDS. That is so crazy. So being raised Mormon and then having my parents have known each other since high school, and they're still married to the stay.

So for me, divorce in fidelity, that never existed in my world. So I think there was a lot of denial, right? I'm going to figure this out. There's other people in the world that have gone through this, and they've been able to manage and try to control the situation

and change the person and you stay because you have kids, and you want your family, and then you realize you eventually looking back towards the end. And you start to feel like you're dying, right? It's such a weird thing to articulate.

But you're like, I'm living in this body, and I'm moving, but my soul is dead. Like, I'm not alive inside. And at that point, it was-- and then, obviously, it kind of--

the straw that broke the camel's back was eventually finding a sex tape of him with somebody else. Yeah, with her. Oh, that you found the sex tape of them. Where did you find it, like, on the phone?

Yeah, yeah, on the phone, and while I was sleeping. Well, I wasn't sleeping. Oh, obviously, you're awake, but we were both sleeping. And then you switched the phone. She started calling in the middle of the night,

from underneath his pillow.

Well, he's asleep. Well, he's asleep, and it was like a gun emoji. And at this point, I knew that they hadn't seen each other because he would go down to Miami, and I would look on her Instagram, and she would be in Miami.

And then they would go somewhere, and then-- So it was like, it wasn't--

“you become a detective when you have to become a detective.”

So I found the sex tape, and kind of all hell broke loose from that point on. So then you wake him up at that point, or start to be quiet and kind of plan-- Like I think of my time and, like, I really studied his position.

And I was like, wow, it was really beautiful. And then I was like-- So no, I-- Yeah, and did you know that Lala was a reality star?

Yeah, but I had never seen Vanderpump rules at that point.

Like at all, like I knew nothing. I was like head in the sand, which shame on me, like I should have been a little more alert, I feel like, but I was incomplete denial of the situation. So eventually, yeah, we ended up--

I woke him up, we got into a fight, and it, but it was a peaceful fight. I think he was kind of like, you know-- There's no denying this. This is not working, right?

Like shame on me, shame on you.

“Like, I got to-- I got to leave for myself now, right?”

You know, I tell people, I stayed for my kids, because I didn't want them to come from a broken home. But then I left because it's like, I have two daughters that I'm raising, and like, they're seeing their mom be completely disrespected, and like, that's not cool, either.

Yeah.

I have to model for them what a good, healthy marriage looks like.

And so what I think is interesting is-- so I'm watching this show, and I'm seeing Lala. And I see that she is talking about this mysterious guy, who's in the industry. And the vision I had in my head of who this person is--

He was high? Yes. I imagine like a, like a Randy Gerber type, who is married to a city Crawford, but maybe like 10 years ago, like a 40 year old that looked kind of like that.

And so I was like, oh my god, I can get why you're keeping it a secret, you know, in my head. And then when I find out, well, he has a wife. Then I imagined another type of person who attracted, I imagine a brunette,

and I imagine someone closer to his age, and to my age. And I'm like, who is this child bride?

“Who is this gorgeous, successful actress, stunning?”

Like, how the hell? How the hell? What's going through your head right now? A lot. Are you nervous?

Having an out-of-body experience to be honest? No. She doesn't share much, ever. Like these are all conversations that we've had, like, behind the scenes, so to watch her, like, talk about it.

Is, well, you know, it's someone else telling your story from their perspective is really interesting. Yeah, like, huh, you're right. What a dumb bitch. (laughs)

I'm thinking like, who is that girl? I don't know what I am. And she's talking about it too. I'm like, what was I doing? Yeah?

(laughs) And anyway-- So how did you meet him? How old are you, Ash? Wow, we're really going back.

I was young. I was 17, turning 18 that summer. I met him in New York. I was on a soap opera called On My Children. I had graduated high school early,

'cause I had book this job. And I was going actually on a golf scholarship. I was on a university, booked on my children, and said, you know what? I could play golf until I'm 80 years old.

Like, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, grew up in a conservative Mormon household. I wanted to get out so badly. So, so I went to New York. He was there, I don't know what he was doing there.

He was there, a friend of a mutual friend introduced us. He was like, she's also another actress. And that was it, like, that was how he just-- He has such a charm. Yes, he had a very charming--

Yes, and I want to say this, it's like, this person's personality is so larger than life. And he's funny, and he's a great storyteller, and he's totally agree. Totally agree.

And like, so there was, it wasn't like some weird, there's an attraction there that I had that I really was like, wow, this person's really fun to be around.

Then he loves to go shopping. And he loves to go take vacations. And he's like, I just love-- I love-- I was telling her this on the way here. I like I love an East Coast guy.

The energy, I like-- That's the only accent that I was into back when I was single. Like a Jersey New York. Yeah, never-- You know, I wasn't really like Scottish or English,

or that didn't like house to him. You make it excited about that. Right. Not me. And I said, could be--

You know, even like--

“that's why I think women love gangster movies.”

Because it's like-- Even though they're like mermaids, they're dressed well, and they're going to buy you a piece of jewelry, and it's like they're very protective. They're protective of the family and the protective of you.

And I think as a woman, that's just a hot, they felt protected by him. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For no other reason that like I knew that I was going to be protected, he supported me.

He loved that I was an actor. I love that he was in the business. And I feel like a lot of artists were very misunderstood in the world, so to find your person that like gets who you are from the inside out, and he did.

And there was a lot of love there. There was a lot-- and I know that there was an age gap, but like he was-- he was much younger than his actual age, right? Like I was the old soul.

He was like the man-child, right. So it worked perfectly.

“And so how old are you when you got engaged or married?”

There was no engagement. We got married when I was 20.

And then I had my first kid at 21.

That is crazy. And how did your parents feel about that? I mean, they were not happy. Did you have a real wedding? No, we aloped in Malvo.

Yeah. Yeah, that says a lot. Yeah. I mean, it's like a process. You know what I mean?

I mean, basically, did you even have a boyfriend, like a real boyfriend before him? I mean, you just got out of high school? No, my high school sweetheart. I had met my high school sweetheart,

and we were actually going to play golf together. Like he had gotten a scholarship to the same university. And it was like that classic, like Americana, like two athletes, like you know what I mean? That's what the plan was.

But no, I hadn't dated. So from time I met to the time I got divorced at 27,

I never had that dating experience.

I mean, it is such a world when when you do, when I was younger, I would sometimes date older guys too. And I liked it. I mean, it's nice. It's like nice car.

They make the plan, you know, you feel special. You kind of feel hot in sexy, 'cause you are younger and hot in sexier than they are. So it's like, it's not like you're dating somewhere in your age, you're dating someone that's like a model, male model,

or something. You kind of feel like, always the hotter one of the two. And it's like, yeah, I mean, I totally get it. And so then when you discover everything, and how much time, like to explain a little bit of the time,

I remember there was, like, you know, some, like I said, some social media stuff that went on,

“because I think you were here to lean a little more for it.”

I think you obviously were being fed a different narrative. And, you know, you want to explain a little bit, like where your perspective was, because you were dating this person, then it wasn't being honest with you either.

- Yeah, but I think had I been clear headed, 'cause I was drinking pretty heavily once I met him. I mean, and I'm not saying that he's the reason for my drinking. But I just can pinpoint when it kind of became at a control, which is when he entered my life.

What had I been at a control regardless?

Maybe, I guess we'll never know.

But I would have been able to put two and two together. Like I think I was actively trying to silence my gut from telling me something is not right here. But yeah, I was under the impression, and I was 25 years old, like I,

and I came from like Amber, parents who had been together since my mom was like 19 years old. They had a wonderful marriage. Like it just didn't occur to me that people would like go out

and like lie about their marital status to like bag another person. And I just, that didn't really enter my brain. And then I just remember him saying that he was separated and then I remember pounding him on an actual divorce date.

And then I remember him not being able to give me that. So I started hooking up and with other people in dating until that was situated. Still very much in contact with him, but I wasn't exclusively with him.

And then that day came.

every time we would get to common ground,

it was always something that would knock us off of our rocker

where we just could never see eye to eye. Understandably, she had a very traumatic experience that involved me. And many traumatic experiences before that. And I was deep in my alcoholism.

I think that I was jealous of her because you know, she gave him the two kids. She was an actress. I was a girl from Utah who landed on reality TV. All sorts of crazy shit coming out of my mouth.

And then once my relationship ended, and I kind of, you know, the information started pouring in and it was like, oh my gosh, like, what I thought was my reality is like very far from that from the time we started the relationship.

And there just came a point in time where I knew that I needed to reach out to her and make an amends and just kind of not kind of, you know, absolutely owned my part for what I did to her. What I participated in.

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My actions caused another woman hurt. And that was tough because I kept thinking how could you be so fucking stupid about yourself? - Yes, about myself and so up until the point where the new found out he was being deceptive to you and you already had ocean prior to that.

- And let's be very clear, the deception where it was like the cheating part. That was fucking child's play. It was everything else that was revealed where I said, "Oh, we're gonna enter a custody battle.

I'm in fear for my child. I don't, I, this person is like the cheating I could get over. We can key key, you know, my heart will heal because I wasn't in love with this person. Like we'll get over it."

Like it's a tough pill to swallow and be like, "Oh, like we were homies like that." Like I really felt like he and I thrived as friends.

“- Yeah, that's what I liked about hanging out with the two of you”

is 'cause I did think you were like a funny couple. - Yes, kind of a fun thrived as friends. Anytime the emotional connection came into play, it was like cats and dogs. It was not, it we just didn't fit.

But it was like that I could have gotten over. It was everything that came with that that I have not shared.

Where I was like, you will not, we will never have

a friendship nothing. - Yeah. - We'll barely be able to co-parent. - But prior to the breakup, yeah. Were you guys, because of your daughters,

you know, and you guys weren't married, but you're being a step mom, and you live together with this man, we had you guys found a better place as far as like

“when she was with your daughters and stuff,”

prior to you breaking up with him. - Yeah, I would say that there were moments where I was like that, thank God, well is there. Thank God, because I knew as much as our differences aside, the fact that I'm not married to this guy anymore,

I'm like, okay, great, moving on. She was so good with my girls, and I'm so, so thankful that one that you got sober and that you could show up for them. And you know, law-accapped order in the house,

stuff that men typically aren't great at. - Yeah, 'cause I was around in that house, I was sober longer than I was a drinker when I was in that situation. And so I really, my whole role and everything after I got sober

was very different. It was like I was deeply embedded in being like a step mom. Like if the girls were struggling with reading or math, it was like Amazon workbooks are coming to the house. Like we're gonna figure out how to count money.

Where you know, we were always cooking, doing face masks.

Like that was truly my life, which I'm very grateful for because had I not been sober, I would not have been able to show up for them. And then thank God I got sober because then I became a mom to my own child,

which I was in the house for seven months. - And by the way, like you were holding down the fort when he was like again, working, right? He was working, and it wasn't like he would give me the kids on my construct.

Like even if he was out of town, they were with Lola and it was like, okay, then, you know, thank God. - Yeah, no, it was definitely, it felt like my purpose. Like obviously I was working and things like that, but I was deeply embedded in like--

- And even home on was so great. It was like, you know, Lisa Lola's mom was also amazing. Always cooking with the kids.

Always doing something amazing, and that was also--

- Yeah, there was order and routine for sure. - Yeah, I remember very much. - And when it all came out, and we were talking on the phone and he's calling me, trying to convince me that this is just, you know, fans making up stuff.

And I kind of was like, you know, at first I thought, and maybe that is true, you know, like people do stuff. Like that. And then you're just like, no, Heather, like no.

And then I was like, okay, I've never speaking to you again.

Goodbye, you know, I'm not comfortable.

“I thought maybe I believed you for like, you know,”

36 hours, whatever. And so, but I remember then you saying, Amber's been really great. We're talking all the time now. - Yeah.

- And so, can you speak a little bit on that of when you guys actually got together and realized, wow, this guy has a really good picker. We're both fucking fabulous. Like, could we give him one compliment?

He knows how to pick great, or just smart, successful, with true, great mom. - I've noticed that with every, like, - But if you were smart, would we have ended up in that situation now?

- I think the smarts came later. - But I think there's love bombing, and I think there's being young, and I think there's a power. I was set up in the furlough bomber.

- Oh my god, love I'm fucking hunt me baby. - Yeah. - I want to be hunted. - Yeah, because what's so good about love bombing as a woman is you get love bomb and you're like,

finally, somebody gets how great I am. I am the greatest woman.

“I am the sexiest thing you have ever seen in your life.”

- Thank you. - Thank you. Why are we not hitting this every night of a fucking hot babe, you know? - Yeah, and then he does it a crew to you that goes,

"Wow, if you're that good with me, like, and you're funny. - Oh, is it possible that there was someone prior to me that you might have been this excited about, and there might be someone after me

that you might be this excited about. - I'm excited about that. - No, because we like a compliment. - I was a fucking sad, but now I'm so scarred, I was telling Amber to damn like,

this is where I'm at. The guy who shows up for me and is like right there ready to fight, I'm like, that's a red flag 'cause what are you doing behind the scenes? But then the guys who like don't really show up,

I'm like, well that's a red flag too, because you're not showing up at all. I'm like, I'm so traumatized that I don't know what is right or wrong. I mean, I think it's homeboy showed up.

- Yeah. - Rx. - Oh, he was right there ready to fight for you. - Yeah, he had this conversation today. - We had this conversation today. - I mean, like when something was going down

and you were pretty, it was like, - You just felt that tension. - So protected, but then your disoriented 'cause you're like, wait, what have you been doing behind my back?

What kind of life have you been living? So now, when a guy's like, right there ready to fight

“or whatever, I'm like, who you fucking behind my back?”

- Yeah, what's your intention, what's your intention here? Why are you fighting so hard? So then I went the other way and it's like, okay, well now you're not showing up at all. So like, what are you doing behind my back?

I don't know what is right or wrong anymore. - I don't know what. - I mean, it's hard when you've been through that and our minds are so different than a man's brain.

You know, it's like, never stops.

Always thinking, you know, and they're just like, what's for lunch? - I know, it's very difficult. - Okay, well, it's just a very different brain and so it's hard to, this story that's in the news,

I thought you guys would find interesting. So this guy is very good looking. - I mean, they're both Stephen. I think he's named Stephen McBee from the McEe Dynasty. - Yeah.

- And I want some of the show I had one of the women on his dad, it's like ex-girlfriend came on, which was huge kind of interesting. - Yeah, he's very good. - He run this cattle thing. He got discovered because he was,

they came to see if he wanted to be like, the bachelor or something or farmer needs a wife. I don't know what, and then he didn't do it and then they were like, that production company was like,

well, this has kind of been an amazing thing, 'cause there's two other brothers in it. And I want, so he has a new girlfriend, not the one we saw from two years ago in the show. He's a new girlfriend that's featured on the show

and she's very beautiful. And this exploded the day after stage, coach of all places.

So they go to stage coach, not always there.

Both of them? - Yeah, exactly. - It's a couple, it has a couple. And she's a beautiful thin blonde and he's a rugged hot guy. And so it was funny 'cause I saw this one girl go,

he said, I just wanna tell you guys, like I said, take a touch, like, at stage coach. I've seen so many couples fight, so twice as much alcohol in the first day of stage coach than both like Coachella, things involved.

So it's like, you know, it's a little, it's a little older of a crowd, you know, it's not necessarily all teenagers. There's a lot of 30, 40 year olds, you know, 20 late, 20s, whatever.

And they like to drink and whatever. I witnessed a couple arguing, nothing bad. Just her being like, I don't get it. Like, what, why? And he's like, because I told you,

and I just, I'm like, oh, like, this is just like whatever. And then the wind started to go and I told my girlfriend, I go, I don't wanna get stuck here. I mean, let's go back to our house.

So we left before the sandstorm.

'cause he has to work, so he's not there for Sunday night.

And somebody DMs him. I mean, there's a whole bunch of things they've all shared. They've all been sharing their stories and their DMs and their videos.

This is what I got from summarizing it. Somebody reached out to him and was like, hey, are you still dating this girl? And he's like, yeah, why? Well, she's out of an after party,

grinding up against a guy. And like, someone takes a photo of her kind of like dancing with some guy. He then immediately starts texting, you're like, what the hell are you doing?

And I'm very like a piece of like, I knew you were just a war. I can't make you, you know, I thought I could make you a housewife. I can't, edit it up and like really stuff like that.

And he even did a video the morning after where he's like,

yeah, you know what? I know I'm not easy to live with. I know I'm in a type, I have a personality thing. Things don't get right. I get angry.

I'm like, who wants to date you? Like, it was like the worst. I was like, oh my god, like mean dad times 10. Like, who wants to be with this fucker? And so then he's like, and I thought, you know,

“when your whole life is about going to the next three-day festival,”

and what outputs you're going to wear, and who you're going to meet, and done it to death, and you have to go to the after party. Yeah, okay. We've been a stranger for three days.

She's with her friends. There's an after party. Why the fuck not when you go? Why wouldn't you go? You're all influencers.

It's a business thing. And so then this young guy that she was supposedly dancing with, they were each following each other, doesn't mean they're fucking. Again, you're in the same business.

He's just, I mean, I was wondering, like, is he talking to you to text or is he just going off? 'Cause it's like, you know, long paragraph, next long paragraph, paragraph, paragraph, and then he posts again, like,

this is where I am at 5.30 a.m. Why am I, well, this girl is whatever, horing around at Zandaya, you know, after party or whatever, and it's a Von Dutch party, whatever, and it's like a gym.

Okay, fucker, I'm supposed to be real. That's gets me real wet. You went to the gym at 5 a.m. Like whatever, who cares? And so now I really like screw this guy.

And she, she just goes, whatever, you're crazy. And he's like, you know, and now the other girlfriend has been sharing her DMs from two years ago, where he was like, where her sister had just died and a month prior.

And she's like, I just, I wanna get my sister's ashes. I just feel, and he's like, fine, I'll move the ashes. Like, just, he was just like so awful. So maybe this girl in the girlfriend two years ago, will now be best friends.

Yeah, they could be the four of you guys to a fucker.

“Like, how there we go, I think he had fish of people.”

- Hatt fish, I love that expression. - Yeah, we've been talking for so long. - Meaning, you have a hat on and it's the cutest face ever. - Oh, have a look at his face, he's gorgeous. - Yeah, he's gorgeous.

- But let's take a look at him up a few times and every image has a hat. So, yeah, you know what I love about Wallace, so I was on Raya, I deleted it again. I just told, so I go, I have the same with the dating apps.

I go on it and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go out there. I'm gonna put myself out there and then I like retreat. I'm like, oh my God. - Then you see what's out there and you go see it. - So, but I'm also still a Raya alert.

- I'm not on Raya. - I'm still a little green and so I'm like, hey, what do you think of this guy? She's like, Amber, every freaking picture. There's a hat and I'm like, oh, what does that mean?

But he's so cute, she's like, he has no hair. I'm like, oh, or sometimes it's that thing have hair. But something about the head shape just completely changes when the hat's gone. - Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And it's like, it almost kind of evens out their face or whatever, you know? - Yeah, it's something to be concerned about. It's something to say.

- There's a lot to be concerned about. - Yeah, I mean, listen, it's interesting.

“And I think, you know, when you get on those dates,”

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You know, and, but this was just, and to put it all out there, I know they're on a reality show to everything, but it was just so, and it did seem like he was really sort of jumping to crazy conclusions.

“- So wait, why not she never made out with anybody?”

- She, well, what I saw, she was like, no, like I'm dancing, but this someone said they were holding hands and this and that, and I mean, again, one of the reasons I believed your ex for a minute is I'm like, when you're like a star

and people are following them, it's weird. Like I went to a thing and, you know, like a fun little party on Saturday for stagehood, it wasn't anything super big, you know, some gifting, some not.

Other people, anyone could go and like buy a drink, I got a band, I got a free, you know, burnt and barbecue, you know, it was pretty good, some free mac and cheese, it wasn't anything. And I see that someone there took a photo of my girlfriend

and I just add a round cocktail table, just eating our food in the day and like put it on a, on a site of like, look at this fucking loser. And I'm like, Jesus, she, I'm literally just eating. Can I eat some mac and cheese?

- I thought, like the world is brutal, I'm telling you. - I'm telling you. - Okay, sorry that I'm going to something and I'm having lunch with a girl

that I met the first day of college.

I don't know, but I'm saying, if it's happening to me, I was like, clearly, you know, some young person that probably wants to fuck him is obsessed with them, saw her there and she's there too and then is like,

she's very pretty. - DMing and being like, you know, I just said, you know, she's dancing with some, even if she was dancing with some guy or whatever, like, what do you, who cares?

Like, it was to look at the way he talks to her. - It was like, yeah, it was like, yeah.

“- If that's how he's, that's not like the first time”

that he's committed with her, like that. - She's been walking on egg shells and probably loves him because he is so cute and he probably is like, you know, the type of, you know, when they, like, because of that truck stuff,

you know how those like, there's like videos where it's like, you know, what, what did your, you know, what happened? All right, let me get my shotgun and you're like, you're not that you're like, for that,

but you're like, I'll be watching some TikTok videos and it'll be like some girl like, when your man knows what to do and then it's like shows the truck to leave the house and she's like, and everyone's like, that's a real man.

Like, I get why it's kind of hot until you're on the receiving end and it's like, five a.m. and you're washing your face and it's like, you're open up and you're like,

I'm home at the influencer house, wiping the sand out of my hair, I don't have a dick in my mouth. Like, what is wrong with you? People are so unhinged.

People are so weird. We like, and not to go like, really negative, but people are so sick and it's like emotionally sick, spiritually sick, and it's this world that we've all become obsessed about and with

they will go to any length to destroy a life.

“- If that means that they get another like on Instagram”

or 10,000 more followers, like, or break up somebody or whatever. - There's no boundaries. - But I think that she should think whoever sent the DM, it's just like, thank you.

I mean, you know, I'm sure there was a point where you were like, thank you, Lala. Like, thank you, Lala. I might have still stayed with this. - I definitely have.

- Percent. Like, a lot of times people say, I do think the other woman, or if it does end up, okay, in the second wife or the step mom stays with them forever, there's so many times that women come together,

because, you know, it's like, well, I'll just do the exchanges, you know, with the step mom, right? - Right, right. - Like, let's just take him out of it, you know, whatever. And sometimes, and it can sometimes work out great

for the rest of their lives and families are together and the two moms are planning the wedding together. You know, like, it can all happen. - It can if there's normal people involved. - When you have like crazy people involved,

there's no, there's no chance. - Yeah. - And there was that point where I,

I'll never forget what she called me,

and she made it in men's.

“And I was like, thank you for, you know,”

taking the time to like make the amends, but I would have, not, I wouldn't have been alive. I was so sick, I was so sick in my addiction, my co-dependency. - What was your addiction?

- For me, I loved, well, loved everything, but cocaine I've never done cocaine before, but I loved Zanix, muscle relaxers, you know, wine, I was a big, I loved my wine. Like anything to not feel,

- So you're sober too. - I'm sober, and I just, I was slowly killing myself, emotionally spiritually physically, and I would not have been able to get out of the marriage. I didn't know how, like, I had been married for eight years.

I did not know how to leave the marriage. It just, I couldn't take that leap of faith. I was, I had so much fear and anxiety.

So, if it wasn't for her and the situation that happened,

I would have never left. - Yeah, well, speaking of new love, so your Casby Michelle from the Valley, everybody's talking about the cheese, there's holy hands on a date with Dr. Dre.

Can you speak on this at all? Did you know about this? Are you shipping this as the kids say? - I know nothing.

“- Well, I have a friend named Paige Davis,”

and she's very funny, and she was saying, I was trying to be set up with Dr. Dre, and I think I know the mutual friend, and she's like, so good for her, she was being funny. She's like, I'm really jealous that it wasn't me,

but I think it's kind of fun. I think it's cute. She's all those big, so good. Why not, who cares? I mean, he's a lot older,

but he's obviously different life, everything again. It could be, it could just be fun. - It's Dr. Dre. - It's Dr. Dre. - It's Dr. Dre.

- It's Dr. Dre. - I might be coming up real fun time. - Yeah. - So good for her. Her daughter, by the way, is her doppelgator.

- They look so much alike. - They look so much alike when I watch the ballet. Isabella is starting to look more and more like her, as she gets older. I feel like for a moment, Jesse loved that Isabella

was like a copy and paste of him, which I think when she was younger, they did look very similar, as she gets older, she's turning into her mama. - Yeah, I thought it was cool.

- All right, now this is from Summer House. And Summer House, I people have compared it a little bit to the scandal in that there is a guy when I educate Amber. So there's Summer House,

these people live in a house all summer. There's just beautiful girl Sierra, and she dated this guy West. - She's the end. - Like a year or so ago.

And it was kind of an on and off didn't work out, but she seemed to sort of be Pirates for hate. - Yeah, but hate still like. - He reeled her in. - Yeah.

- I think, yeah. So he, yeah, he'd kind of play with her emotions and bring her back and all this stuff. And meanwhile, she became best friends with Amanda, and Amanda was married to a guy named Kyle for like 10 years.

And they were the fighting couple. You know, I'd be ever been in a group where it's the fighting couple. Imagine all summer long. - I was the fighting couple.

I was the fighting couple. - I was the fighting couple. - I know exactly, I know that very well. - Well, all the friends are like, God, we're stuck in this house, you know,

could you just be nicer to her? Could you just whatever the case is? And then he becomes a DJ, whichever one is like, that's the kiss of death, whatever. But I'm also glad that he did it because they

are getting divorced now. And it comes out that Amanda and West are heavenfucking.

But in watching the show, Sierra was that constant friend, boosting Amanda up, being like, you know, you deserve better than this marriage. And, you know, really kind of depletely test. Sucking the air out of the room as, you know,

the woe is me wife, Amanda. When, you know, he was playing it. And I had this, I talked about it on my show. And I'm like, I just want to know, who is, is there a type of girl that kind of gets off

on fucking her friend's boyfriend? Like, that proximity. Is there something that makes you do it? And this girl wrote me. And she goes, I was that girl.

And she explained that. And she totally regrets it now, but she just said,

“I think like anything, it is sort of like,”

now I don't know, this might be the first time

Amanda has ever done this in her life. But someone that might do this in the little and high school, a little in college, I don't know that girl. But like, what is it that you can be such a good friend as somebody and often times like we saw Rachel

even like ask Ariana, you know, how's things going with you and Tom? And I've heard other people say that we're like in the mom world. They're like confessing to their friend

that like their marriage is bad. And the whole time the friend is screwing the husband. And the friend is like, how's things going? That's not a friend. No, it's not this, she's like showing up as a friend.

But the intentions are really sick and demented. And it's not okay, it literally makes me sick too. It's just like that makes that brought me back. You're sharing that story and explaining that to me. Brought me back to when I couldn't trust women.

Like that all. Like I'm like, I lost trust in both male and female. But like as women, we are supposed to have each other's back. And yes, we all make mistakes. But those kind of mistakes, you're not well.

That's a very sick person. Yeah, but what if they work out? Amanda and Wes. I, I don't know.

“That's kind of the only way it could work is if they did work out.”

But I don't think it will. I think he wants out. And he now, he doesn't know what to do. And so then they had this audio leak from when they filmed the reunion.

And people, the first thought was people thought, did he leak it to like get himself fired

or something? Turns out now they're saying, no, it was someone on production. I immediately for the beginning thought, no, production did it to keep us talking. And it was juicy to hear them all fighting and accusing each other of stuff. But it wasn't anything that we wouldn't have expected.

So I didn't think it was like a bomb show moment where, say, someone yelled, fine, we started fucking June 4th. Like it was nothing like that. It was just them arguing with each other. So there are second season of this that's with the same cast.

This is going on right now that they just, the reunion, so we'll see this in like a few more weeks. And right now we're together right now, Amanda and Wes are together. But they said they're both quitting the show or something. I don't know.

I'm you know, that's true. I have a question. Yeah. When you were with the person and everything was going on in the media, did you ever

“feel like the pressure, like I have to make this work?”

Because you know, because it did start from an affair, right, you don't want to mean like the extra pressure of like saving face, because you public, you know, it was sort of not a good thing the way it started.

No, I never felt that pressure of it.

That's a good question, though, to work, not at all. Um, that's interesting because I feel like a lot of people, like, I'm sure a lot of really doing the, the pressure of like, wow, I, we just kind of made this, we blew up our lives. We will for lives now. This has to work.

Yeah. No. But the, the pressure of my cast, you know, constantly having that as like a topic of conversation. I broke. I ran away from home.

I was threatened that there could be legal action taken if I did not return. I fell off the grid. I packed my dog up. I drove 10 hours to Utah and no one can get ahold of me. This was when, right? This was season season five.

While you were seeing, while I was seeing him and we didn't know who he was. Right. Because, and I had, hown did about like this doesn't make sense. Why is there, why does it take so long to get divorced? Why are people saying that you're still married?

Like, why is, you know, why is my cast member saying that they saw the two of you, you know, in photos, like, I was just, I was, my gut was speaking to me, putting the pieces

To where I, I cracked under pressure, production was banging on my apartment door.

I was supposed to leave to go on, I think it was one of the cast members birthday trips where they had rented an RV and I was like, I'm not fucking putting myself in that situation to be hounded about this again. I let them bang on the door once they left, I grabbed my dog and I left for Utah and then they got in touch with my mom and said, you know, there may be legal action taken if she

doesn't, she's contractually obligated to, for, to go back to the end of the world. Yes. Yeah. At least to sign off and tell us she's out, right. Like, we need her story to be rocked up if this is what she's choosing to do.

Interesting. Yeah.

“I remember that then when you came back to the show.”

When I remember he wanted me to leave the show and I considered it for half a second. Before I was like, I, this could team me up for a future. Like, I'm certainly not going to give something up for anybody. And that's such a good thing that women need to remember like when someone's like, what, I've got you.

You don't need to do this dumb thing, but you have to think, but if this doesn't last forever. Like, doesn't, you know, like, that, yeah, now I've given up medical school or whatever you're doing or you're, you know, college or your business or maybe Gaga said it in one of her acceptance speeches.

She said, for all of my women out there who are trying to choose between a man and their career.

Just remember, your career will never wake up in the middle of the night and tell you it

doesn't love you anymore. And then she just walked off stage. No. So good. So good.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I needed to hear that. Yeah.

Speaking of, you know, shutting it down and going off to Utah with the dog, such a good Taylor, Frankie Paul has, now, I don't know, in the world of TikTok or Instagram, deleting

your stuff where you have, you know, eight million followers, whatever.

I would think if you do want to come back at your level, someone can get a hold of someone or you definitely can. Yeah.

“So it's like back in the day, like for a regular person, deleting your Instagram, I remember”

Charlie Sheen did it. He was on Twitter. He was on Twitter again, like 800,000 followers, which was a lot or something crazy. And then he just like deleted it. And I was talking to somebody that like, it was his representation or something.

And they were freaking out because it was like, no, you're not getting those people back. And that's where he was like tiger blood tweets and all that. So any time she wants to come back, she can and they said Mormon wives is going to start filming again in Utah as well as the new cast in the O. C. But and then she, um, they don't know when she's going to come back, but she, you know, as well, come to come back.

I was thinking, you know, I wonder if, yeah, you said, liberate. Yeah. I was thinking, I'm like, you know, we got to just think about her right now, you know, on her age. She's been raised on this surprise since she was like younger than 10. She probably was able to go on things and do videos or whatever.

She's been making her money and being a celebrity since 2020. And in, and then, exasperating it with a reality show and the bravo and then, of course, her, her problems with her ex and her custody issues, I'm like, could she, you know, just live a normal life for like a year or two, could she actually not post, just be a mom and and just go to yoga,

go cook something, whatever, have enough money to like live off of, work out your situation with your ex, like, can someone like that, be okay not being famous, not reading the

“comments, not seeing that their video got two million, I think it becomes like a drug.”

It does. I think fame is an addiction. Yeah. And I think social media is a huge element of that. So there's like a social media fame addiction where you just get off on, you know, not just looking at it, but posting, seeing what people are saying and doing. I don't have that. I have many other addictions. We've come to find out, but social media is not one of them. I deleted Instagram off of my phone. I want to say like a week and a half ago,

and I have had no problem, like, people will send me things, where I have to like, open Instagram, and I'm like, I can't see it because I don't have Instagram right now. So when you remove Raya or Instagram, like, from your phone, that's just a like a discipline. It's like throwing away, it just, because I will mindlessly just going my phone and click on it and it's, it's like autopilot because you just are conditioned to do that. So when I get on my phone and I don't

have anywhere to go, it's like, oh, why don't need this? Oh, but then, you know, yes, you can still go.

for me right now. And social media makes me feel extremely vulnerable and exposed. Yeah. And

that's kind of a difficult place because obviously my livelihood and like how I position myself is based off of like things like that. Right. It's like, but I'm going to have a choice. Yeah.

“Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, what is she going to do? Like, she doesn't, you know,”

it'll be, I think she, I think it's good for her. And if she steps back into the world, maybe she'll have some parameters to it. You know, but like, she wasn't like, you know, when all the shit was going down, she still was doing videos with her, you know, shaking your ass and being like, I don't care. And like, for a little bit, and I was like, wow, I would have thought you would

shut it down for a minute. And so it's interesting now weeks later that the shutdown happened.

Where, you know, she really does. Yeah, it's a dopamine hit. You know, everything's a dopamine hit, whether you're filming the video or you're, you're, you're swiping. It's like, she, I'm sure, like, got advised by the people that she's getting counseling from or in therapy for, like, you have to completely remove. It's like having an ex boyfriend, it's number still on your phone.

“Like, why is he still on your contact? Just like, you have to block and delete. That is how you”

stop getting those dopamine hits, even just scrolling. Is it still that it's like the science behind it is so real and it's frightening. And I'm, I think she made a really good decision because

why, even if she gets to a place where she feels healthy enough to have that, you know, on her phone

and, and have her account again, she doesn't, she needs to start fresh. She needs to have new new memories. Like, why, you know, it's, it's like tearing the bandaid off or tearing the scab off. Like, why re-open that. Yeah. And so they're doing the OC version. And, uh, and Bobby, who, I'm going to say her name wrong. But Bobby, who is really, became a huge internet star. She's divorced. She has three kids. She's from Laguna Beach. And she has that really kind of funny way of speaking,

kind of cadence. She did it, mid later on, then it was like an act. It was like a character. Well, I'm impressed by that. That's great. Yeah. And what's so then I was like, only shouldn't have

“done that. I like, you should have just kept with your, like, weird, curking it, quirkyness. But like,”

she's so pretty. I do think it will be fun to actually get to see her in this show. I think it's a great idea that they did the OC. Yeah. I'm excited about it. I think there's a lot of murmurs in the OC. And then, and then wait did any murmurs? Is that what you call? Yeah. A murmurman? Oh, oh, oh, murmur, oh, yeah. By the way, now it's LDS. Oh, they don't like to be called murmurs. Yeah, I don't, I think they took the term Mormon out. And it's LDS is louder

day Saints. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Secret lives of LDS wives. Yeah. I like the ring to that act. I know that's shorter. Yeah. Speaking of which, have you heard of this, like, weird thing people are doing where they like do like a jaw crack. Yeah. We want to do it. I remember and I she sent me this video. And like I just even watch and rhyme, right? It made me want to cry because I think the relief that she felt after he like went in there and was like, and she just

starts sobbing because of how much pressure was there. Yeah, there's some of your things that they put on gloves. And she did a video, Leanne Rhymes, who was married to Eddie Sibrion, who they were in the news a lot, like 15 years ago, because he was married to Brandy Glandville, a real house was of Beverly Hills. And then it was like found out that they were like seen, like going to hotel, and they'd done a movie together. And but they ended up getting married. And it was really,

really ugly between Leanne and Brandy, Brandy would, you know, talk shit and everything. But now and like the last, I don't know, eight, ten years, they do things, giving together, they invite Brandy to everything. And then she just set, they just celebrated like there whatever anniversary 12 years. But I do think this stuff is weird though. Like I mean, why not, I guess, have someone stick their finger on the side of your jaw and like what released your trauma? Yeah, that's what

that's what I know. That's what I guess he's I'll do it to you. Get a glove and go for it. I mean, have to chop a nail off though because this thing will fucking stab you. Yeah, but maybe the pain will take away from my heartbreak. I just love looking. I'd like, I'm just into like backcracking. Oh, that's crazy. This did not turn me on as much as a backcracking video. Well, they needed to put the microphone closer to her face. Whatever happened, they really, in the new scene. I don't know if

you could hear it like a backcrack. No, I didn't, like following these videos that came out,

to her artistically. And I don't know the sound at unleash this trauma. And you see the guys do it.

Have you watched the videos of some of the men doing it? And they're weeping like little really. Yeah.

“Yeah, I would go to, I think this guy lives in Florida. Remember when everybody was doing”

cupping? What happened with that? There's I saw a few basketball players that are playing in the MBA, right? Yeah, the playoffs that have cupping on like their shoulders. I know, I hate that that let, that's like a look though. It looks awful. You know what I'm going to watch? I did see that. You and I watched that. Yeah, the foot, the big one. Yeah, what are you in the foot? You just cut in the foot? Yeah. They do like the heat around it and then they cut and like pull and then they

section them to like the heel middle of the foot, ball of the foot. But remember when it was like

had a big things under your on your feet for like a laying down. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, because like I mean it's so weird when you go to like a party, you see someone like a strapless dress, they go like a couple. It was like almost like an accessory, those markings. Yeah. For actresses on the red carpet. Yeah. Everyone had that. That's what I'm saying. And they would

“do like the back shots. That's what I'm saying these things feel like in a, in like, you know, a trend”

and you're like, oh, is that still a thing? I love all that shit though. I'll try anything too. I'll wear a sweatshirt after. People used to do going in, do you ever do that anymore? Does anyone do the thing when you like go and just like sweat off a few pounds? Yeah. I feel like that kind of went away. Like this weekend. Yeah, you have to let you do that all the time. That's gross. It relieves you. Yes. We need a sauna. We should put a sauna in the in the backyard. Okay. I think that everyone says you

need to you know to read like sauna and then you could just go with the little pods now. Yeah, they have a microscope. Yeah. I think Costco says them for like $12 bucks. Like a two-person sauna. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Costco had caviar the other day. I heard. I heard it went like sold out. Like it's pretty cute. It comes in like a Tiffany's blue box. Okay. And, but you know, I feel like when it's something gets mass produced in as that Costco. It's like, I know, okay, caveat. You know,

caviar is like now like the truffle of like 2018. Oh, that makes me sad. You know what I mean? When everyone was like, Oh, truffle. You know what I'm excited. And then now it's like Carl's Juniors has a truffle burger and you're like, okay. Kids get in the car. We're having a fancy dinner tonight. Yeah. So kind of like, you know, everyone has their own caviar line. Everyone's a DJ. What did you see that pretty mess is a DJ? I did see that. She's going to DJ Bose's wedding,

“remember? Yes, but I think it's like, I love that that Erica was he's like, how do you like”

being a DJ, Erica Jay? You know, and she's like, I love it. She'll have play other people's music. Get out. It's quick. Easy. Bunny. I'm like, thank you for being so fucking honest. She's the best. She's like, yeah, of course it's easier than you doing a 90-minute show with ten days. It's like you work so hard. And singing and all that if you could just go, it's the best. Hold your ear

and be like, one, two, three, four, you know, like, God. I always said my dream was just to go.

Remember when like Kim Kardashian, everything was always like in Vegas, just getting paid to like do an appearance. Yeah. And I was like, oh, do you think I could ever just get to that level of just getting paid to show up? That's it. Don't have to talk to anybody. That's the dream. Don't have to. Don't have to play the record. Don't have to stay there. Don't have to stay there. But like, what would I appear to do now? Like, yeah, and we're also going to get you bottle service. Like,

all right. A nice bottle of peri-a, you know? But so you do that. You do the night club thing. Back in the day, when I first started on Bravo, yeah. And what would that pay? Oh, God, I couldn't even tell you, maybe 10,000. So they hook you up the whole weekend. See what I would have paid for your room and like your food and whatnot. And then you'd go to the club and you could bring like your friends if you wanted. They had to pay for their own flights, whatever. And then it was like unlimited

drinking. And then here's your check. You know what it really turns me on is what I like what makes me envious is like when I see, you know, all the influencers that and everything that are like, oh, we're doing this. I'm like, okay, so how does this work? Like, someone just does organize the whole thing. Here's your flight. Miguel is going to pick you up from the airport. You're going to go over here. Here's your dinner area. Be ready at four. The car is going to pick you up.

We're going to take you drop you off right at the place. Here's your VIP tickets or an artist pass. And like, you don't have to think about anything. Yeah. That's the life. God, that's what I just like, someone's like, you know, you can just hire a traveling, and I go, I guess I could. I don't know. It just seems so nice if someone else was just like doing it for you. You know what? I feel this way about making, when I see my friends that are making a lot of money doing

I was like, you know what, maybe I'll do that as like, I have like an hour a day to dedicate

doing that, doing my style or my make it whatever I want. And then I go to do them like, this is fucking hard. No, it's so hard. It's so sharp. It's so sharp. Well, just every thing.

“You know, like, and that's why when people like shit on influencers, like the joy that people had”

that like, there was a windy day at stage coach and like, you know, because it's like, good. Now that was fuckers now. I'm like, what? What is wrong with you? Like, it was wind for five minutes. And it was okay, but it did fuck up some people's trip. Why would you be happy just because you're squatting in the basement? Like, baby reindeer stalker, like, who cares? Why are you such

mean about it? I know, people are so cold. But I did, I, I had like a moment of doing socials,

like, influencer, influencer style socials. It was the hardest thing I've ever done because you kept like doing it wrong. They're like, hey, no, I'm going to the hashtag right. No, like, the original setup was like, I brought on a social media guy. He would send me what I needed to capture and he came. And by the way, he's freaking fantastic. I just, I'm not into social media like that.

“Like, I just read it the days when he was like, hey, we're going to content this week. I would literally,”

I'm like, this is worse than getting my nails done. Like, I do not enjoy this. I was a zombie. I like suddenly needed a nap and just the thought of it. So he comes over, though, to like, teach me how I'm going to do things. And here's the app that we're going to use. Once you've downloaded this app, this is where you upload your videos. I go, here's the deal. I want you to let me know how much I can pay you to do all of this, where you come. You set up the lighting.

I just like, I'm the talking head and then you edit the videos. It's a lot of fucking work. Yeah. And then I felt way too exposed. I'm like, why do I have a video every single day going up on my feed? Like, now I'm going very out there. There was a video I thought recently where it's like a little boy. He's like, you know, eight or something. And the mom is on the couch. And it's one of those videos, but you know, short clips of like, you know, where someone just

shows you their day, making their coffee, making their bed, whatever, but you're going to watch you in the whole thing. And so, but it was the kid was like, you know, took the baby, strapped the baby, cleaned up the kitchen, put a blanket over the mother. And everyone's like, that's a great man. I'm like, you made him fucking do this. Somebody is filming this thing. You're pretending to be asleep on the couch. Yeah. Why are you like, like, why are you making

your son a cat on? It's good for eating a viral moment. Right. Exactly. Yes. It's all fake.

But I'm always, I always love to go to the comment and have one person finally. Right that. Like,

okay, but like, you had him do all this. Someone had to film it. Someone had to move the camera eight different spots. Yeah. Then edit it all together. You know, if you didn't do that, you probably wouldn't be sleep to private. Make your eight-year-old breastfeed your child. You probably could do it yourself. I know, but people, it's interesting how many people still don't understand the production behind certain things. Yeah. Like, the amount of messages that I got

“being like, you should have Brittany, I leave Brandon. I'm like, this is not live television.”

Yeah. It's not how they still dating. No. But like, people think they are watching live television. And we, we power on film, whatever. And there's no like production behind things. But so it is interesting. Like, when you see those moments that like make you sad, right? It's like, oh, and like a good way. Like, oh, the guy coming home from like wherever he's been in the dog running up. And it's like, right, a viral moment. This is to make you feel something. That dog could be a

fucking actor. We don't know. But you know so many of those pet ones are no AI. It's a real thing. I know. I know. I've been training into AI. It's the older generation. Oh, yeah. They love it. They're like, did you see the deer that brought over its baby and brought a cake and think the person that helped them get out of the net? You know, like, I'm, you're like, wait. And I, yeah. You guys during the wildfire. Yeah. Devastating. My mom goes, look at these firefighters.

And they're going into flames carrying out like baby reindeer spots. Like mom. That is not real. That's who they're targeting. Yeah, Lisa. The Lisa's of the world. She believed it. I'm like, no, it's not real. Doesn't even look real. Anyway, moving on. Well, I love that you guys talk on your show. And it's a great, great name for a podcast and likely a therapy being your history and your friendship. How did you come up with the name? Oh, my gosh. Well, I think we're on a massive, you know,

rip it and let's see what comes up. And then somehow that name came in the mix. And it was like,

yeah, I think, well, you and I were wanting like an affair to be brought into it. And I definitely wanted on to be part of it because it's untraditionally, while I wanted to like stick with that. And it was just such a perfect name. Yeah. When you know when you, you know when you know,

“that's what I was trying to say. Yeah, the moment we go. Yes. And and what made you decide to say”

goodbye to give them Lala? I just felt like it was so juvenile and represented a part of my life that I was just like no longer in like it was created when I was with that person. And then even like the beauty and skin line was like connected to that person, the fucking book I wrote were the dedication.

Oh, by the way, it's right behind. By the way, I love the cover. I've never looked better. But the dedication

page was like talking to him. And I was like, I'm just, I don't want it anymore. Yeah. Like I need a divorce

“from this. I think it's great. I think it's great. But yeah, you know, make that break. Well,”

I'm so glad you guys came and it was really so interesting in juicy. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Everybody follow them. Check out the podcast on likely affair and untraditionally Lala. And of course, the valley is on every Tuesday night. Are we on Tuesdays or Wednesdays? I think we're on Wednesdays.

“Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, you probably get it on Tuesdays. No, I don't. I don't understand how TV works”

anymore. So I basically, well, I have to watch the next-hand peacock. Peacock, I can understand.

Yeah, because it literally tells you new episode Thursday. Oh, maybe, okay, maybe. Yeah. Well, I'm caught up in it, but I don't know what days these things are on. And Rhode Island is all about the cheating. So, oh, it's so good. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm going to have to start watching