Episode 655: The Du Pont Foxcatcher Murder Part III - Wrestle-Mania

[coughing] What the hell is going on? That's one of the cannibalism started. [crying] [dramatic music]

[music playing] You know, I feel like I've grown a lot.

“Just in this sideways club. No, no, no. No, you piece of shit.”

Waste line. I'm less swollen than I was. I can tell because I've been sick. Okay, I've been sick. And so I realized though, something cut through the cloud, the miasma, of my sickness.

Rastling might not be gay. [coughing] I don't know how, I don't know how. Oh my god. At, at, at this A in your 40s, you, you fight, I understand what you're saying.

You don't know, like, again, you know how I came to that conclusion. Because none of the information actually would lead me to that conclusion. Sure, but you did finally come to the conclusion that men can touch each other without it being gay. I don't understand the desire, but that's fine.

Women either. I do. I'll hug a woman. If she'll let me. I'll hug a woman. I'll hug a woman. I'll hug a woman.

“I'll hug a man. I just don't want to hug, I don't, you know what it is?”

I just never understood. I grew up up, sisters, I was over mothered.

Yeah. I don't like rough housing with the abuse boys. Yeah. I don't like getting my, I don't like, you boys getting your sweat on me. That's for, that's for making love to a woman. Yeah. I don't want your sweat on me and I don't get it. But I understand, it's a sport thing that I just, it's past now.

I like it. I had an alliance with the wrestlers, you know. I was on the football team, but I had an alliance with the wrestlers. Because I used to laugh when they beat up the baseball players. And they just wanted an audience. Well, girl, last month I cast on the left ladies and gentlemen.

My name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with the, I mean, I would say, I mean, I totally different Henry's a brow skin. I mean, this is 55%. It's just this one sport that I don't understand, but hey, you know, it's because they don't really make any money from it. Yeah. It's physically growing. Yep. It's extremely difficult. It's almost impossible to make it to the very top of the

heap. And then you can make it to the top of the heap, get hurt, never do anything ever

again. Just end up selling cars, just like everybody else. Yeah. And so we don't understand like, why anybody would do any of this? Yeah. But also, I mean, I did improv. Yeah. Look, I'm not single. The single most charming thing, one of them. So, I don't know what I know. And we've got the man who knows how to play the sides against

each other. His name is Ed Lars. Now you're doing it. I'm doing great. I'm doing great.

“The best way to find out if wrestling is gay or not is going to a room with a bunch of”

wrestlers in it. Call them all gay. But you don't kiss me to prove not gay. And it just meets me. You can see me running squealing. And away we go. Well, now that we've spent two episodes demonstrating how the depons were one of the most evil and consequential families in world history, let's in this series with a focus on one duPont in particular. Today, we're finally telling the

full story of John DuPont and the DuPont Fox catcher murder.

Now, while the first two episodes of this series demonstrated what the DuPonts were able

to accomplish just so long as they had no regard for human life, John DuPont was an example of what happens when one of the DuPont heirs is left to spin his own wheels completely apart from the rest of the DuPont clan, not even close to being involved in the business. DuPont wouldn't put John DuPont on the level of evil is say the DuPont who said "fuck it" when it came to poisoning all of us with Teflon. John DuPont was still careless, dangerously

lonely, completely devoid of social skills, and mentally ill. Cool. Great combo. Considering his behavior, I'd put John's emotional intelligence by the time he murdered someone just before he turned 60. I put him on the level of a disturbed seven year old. If, of course, that disturbed seven year old had nearly unlimited funds to do whatever

he wanted. Oh, the movie blank check! Yeah! In a poor man, these qualities would have simply made John DuPont homeless. But for an heir to the DuPont fortune, these shortcomings instead made John DuPont into

a dangerous and unpredictable man who had a lot of power over other people. As such in this episode, we hope to show you exactly how people like John DuPont work. And what it's like to be in the immediate orbit of someone in the DuPont family, even if they are separated from the DuPont family. But to be completely fair, considering what the Epstein files have shown us concerning

how incredibly wealthy people spend their time and money, I think that it's a bit of a minor

Instead, I described John DuPont as a dangerous weirdo, a guy who probably could have lived

“a relatively normal life if anyone in the DuPont family had given a damn.”

John, however, was left to figure out everything on his own and since he was a DuPont, he did so in a world completely devoid of consequence until, of course, he committed a murder that was so brazen that it could not be swept under the rub. I find it interesting that the rest of the DuPont family, you know, let's say their crimes were perpetrated on the rest of the world.

And this is an interesting case of a DuPont pulling the world. The crimes as far as we know, but pulling the world into his world. Like he did this thing where John DuPont didn't have to go out to commit a bunch of crimes. He brought this very small world of high level, competitive wrestling. It's an extremely small world and he, essentially, bought it, brought it to his house.

And that's where he did his crimes. Now, as far as what John DuPont did, he shot and killed an Olympic gold medal winning wrestler named Dave Schultz. David been a member of John's wrestling team, Team Fox Catcher, which included a number of competitive wrestlers who all lived and trained on John DuPont's sprawling Pennsylvania

estate, Fox Catcher Farms. David been introduced to John DuPont by his brother, Mark Schultz, who was also an Olympic gold medal winning wrestler. Mark actually wrote our main source today, Fox Catcher, which is a surprisingly funny book, considering how it is ultimately about the murder of Mark's brother.

He's an amazing talker, too.

He's only 3430, which is really how I had first even heard about this story. Yeah. He stopped portraying that way in the movie by chanting David, I'll tell you that. Yeah.

“That kind of makes me, that's why the big, fictional movies will never be the same.”

Like once you know all the story, it's not quite the same when you go and look at it because the real dude really had a lot of depth. Yeah. And so, let's get into the story of John and Luther DuPont, starting with his bizarre and wealthy childhood.

John DuPont was born in November of 1938 as the youngest child of four to William DuPont Jr. and Gene, listener Austin. William DuPont was one of the many multi-millionaire DuPont's and John therefore grew up in a massive mansion with more than 40 rooms on an estate outside of Newtown Square

Pennsylvania.

Imagine, known as "Licitor Hall" after John's mother, have been modeled after President

James Madison's home in Vermont, which had been designed by the DuPont's most famous family friend Thomas Jefferson. Me, he just didn't anything, right? Thomas Jefferson? Yeah.

Yeah. He could just draw up a house? No. He fucking paid so what did he say? He did it.

He didn't even laugh. He's mother. Thomas Jefferson is so cool. He's so cool.

“He's kind of someone who discovered a fucking bird and he gave a bunch of money to call”

a John. Thomas Jefferson can turn himself, and then he can turn into and he would protect us when he'd be the emissary of the world. He'd be like, "And he personally killed the library pirates." Wow.

Like, some people to go to do it enough. Tommy's my favorite. Yeah. He could tell by the ponytail. Now, Mr. Hall was on an 800-acre estate that eventually acted as a compound of sorts.

An extravagant guest house called the Chalet sat next to the mansion, while the estate itself posted several other smaller houses and buildings. Eventually, this estate would come to be known as Fox Catcher Farms. Now, when John DuPont was born in the waning days of the Great Depression that his family had of course helped to create, Fox Catcher Farms was mostly dedicated to the breeding and racing

of Therabred race horses. From what it seems like, John DuPont's father spent his time and his family's wealth on horse racing, just as John, would later use that same generational wealth to insert himself into the world of competitive wrestling. But, as opposed to wrestling, horse racing was the DuPont family approved hobby.

And it's a hobby of many moneyed families that have been doing horse stealing and racing and breeding for an extremely long time. It's rich people behavior. Yes. And have you ever slapped a saddle on a man?

Oh, hey. [laughter] That's called "Great of Engineering." [laughter] Well, the DuPont's were known for horse racing, and John's father had achieved international

acclaim for designing and building more than 20 race tracks in steeplechase courses. Well, how's the country? Just went ahead and drew up them courses? Yeah. Yeah.

And it's a big obstacle. Maybe this happened to be a little wider than an athlete. No, no, no, no, no. There's a horse's, yeah, or here. No, be great in the middle.

A pond. I hate you. [laughter] Shoot the man in the head. No, no, no, no, just a pond.

Check the good idea. Kill him and throw him in the pond.

Let's keep on. That's true. Boom DuPont, however, may have spent a little too much time on the horses. Because John's parents divorced when he was still a toddler. And also made sure that William DuPont was probably not a great man, because getting divorced

in the early 40s, especially in high society, to big fucking deal. I also suspect that John DuPont may have been the baby that was supposed to save the marriage. Because his three much older siblings had all married and left home by the time John was in grade school.

And they had nothing to do with them. John kind of sounds like a baby that was conceived by just sitting on a bunch of extra comb that was sitting on the toilet. [laughter] Like I don't know if it was purposefully done.

It sounded like he just kind of sneezed while he was inside or once and then just fucking comments that a pish shot out of him and then just made him. You're a doctor now. [laughter] I'm telling Mr. Jefferson.

[laughter]

“I think I know what a little thing about our babies are made, right?”

But he's telling Mr. Jefferson. And John's parents, yeah, Thomas Jefferson actually does no quite a bit about how babies are made. I invented fuck. [laughter]

Stop me, Jefferson. I invented fuck. [laughter] Are you the Tommy Jefferson? No, John's parents divorced.

His father left and was not involved in John's life from that point forward. So John basically grew up alone on this massive estate with his mother as his only companion. And man, do we know how well it turns out when boys grow up with their mother and their only companion? It's nice.

[laughter]

They definitely never stop calling them mother.

Mother. As a result, John grew up painfully shy and soon developed a stutter. The closest thing John had to a childhood friend was the son of a DuPont family show fur. But John later learned that his mother had actually put this boy on the DuPont payroll

and his only job was to pretend to like John. Oh, like a fret boy. [laughter] Even though John still had no friends by the time you reach high school, he was still well known enough to be voted both laziest student and most likely to succeed, which was an obvious

wink towards John DePont's family name. Yeah, it was actually held back a grade. Not because he was dumb and out anyway whatsoever, he was just very lazy.

“I think it was most likely to succeed from the union.”

[laughter] John was, however, reasonably athletic. And while he did participate in wrestling in high school, his first love in athletics was swimming. When he eventually went to the University of Miami, he actually competed on the swim team, and he graduated in 1965 with a bachelor's degree in Marine Biology.

And I believe he did have his own little Olympic dreams, according to the 30-30-30. Very much so.

Yeah, we're going to get to that in a second.

Yeah. Yeah, but when he did his Marine Biology, he learned at a wrestled dolphins. Which is very high because he's so slippery. Absolutely, obviously. And it really helped you.

You can see how that frustration will build, that eventually you start to shoot those dolphins in the head. Everybody got a hold there. [laughter] But I like many eccentric wealthy men.

John had a ton of interest in hobbies throughout his life. In the '60s, John was really into birds and seashells. So he traveled the world collecting thousands of seashells, and he eventually had a collection of over 40,000 stuffed birds. Which is incredibly harmless behavior for a DuPont.

It's salted a bird. I mean, I just feel like it's not eating up to stop a good. But in 1965, John's father died. And to show you how much money these people had, even after the inheritance was split between John and his three siblings,

John still walked away with somewhere between 50 and 80 million dollars.

And that's 1965 money. Not bad? That's pretty cool. [laughter] I'm still hearing I got negative money.

[laughter] Now, John did use some of that money to build the Delaware Museum of Natural History.

“Because remember, the DuPont's own Delaware, Uncle DuPy.”

This was basically a building that held John's personal collection of seashells and stuffed birds. Gotta put those 40,000 birds somewhere. John was actually such a prolific ornithologist that he is personally credited with discovering over two dozen species of birds. I'm sure he did it just like everyone.

[laughter] You have any fucking idea. How empty your life has to be. To find new birds. [laughter]

New birds. We get back how long and how much time. And he's not getting paid to do it. He's doing it on his dime going and looking at trees. Which would later drive him insane.

And he's just staring at it and just going like, "There's a DuBot." What is this kidney? Anything else we've done? I just feel bad for the guy who really discovered the birds.

I honestly think that he saw these birds.

Yeah.

“Because he said it's easy to see someone very smart.”

And he's easy to see a bird. He didn't go to school. He doesn't know anything about anyone. No school. He can't breathe from those lazy.

No, but he did get a bachelor's degree for the University of Miami. This man has done nothing. You can't convince me he has an ounce of intelligence. He saw a bird. He saw a bird.

That's a boy. John's true love, however, was athletics. John had dreamed of swimming in the Olympics. But he was at best a good swimmer rather than a great one. While John's wealth meant that he could participate in pretty much any athletic competition,

“he did not have the ability to win nor to even come close.”

If you swam in circles, he would have won. Yeah. When he competed for a spot on the swim team in the 1968 Olympic Games, for example,

John came in second to last.

From what it seems, things started going terribly wrong for John DuPont in the late 60s. Who fucking came to sack? Who could have been slower than him? That's someone richer and fatter. Yes.

The neighbor from P. We Herman. I want to swim in the Olympics. Before the late 60s, far as I can tell, John DuPont really was a fairly normal wealthy weirdo with very specific tastes. But what seemed to truly change John was an incident that happened when John was about 30 years old.

He was riding a horse when the horse threw him from the saddle. And John landed, straddling a fence like he's fucking wily coyote. Hi. Hi. Hi.

Hi.

These testicles were so badly injured that they developed an infection and they had to be removed completely.

Those testicles were replaced with plastic fall seeds. And John was supposed to take testosterone shots every day following this incident. And while I know that hormones can be perfectly safe, I also know that they can greatly affect a person's behavior if they aren't applied correctly. And I'm not sure how advanced hormone treatment was in the late 1960s, even if your as rich as John DuPont.

As such, I think it is possible that the misapplication of hormones is what turned John from being a mere rich weirdo into a dangerous and unpredictable rich weirdo. I think later on it would go on to the mixture of alcohol, drugs, and the haphazard use of hormones. Yes, the, let's say the inconsistent consistent use of hormones. Apparently when you're hammered in on cocaine, you forget when to take your real medicine. I heard that I was at my medicine.

Now, right around the time that John lost his testicles, he also aged out of competitive swimming. That seems like John figured out very quickly that if he wanted to participate in something, the DuPont fortune would open any door he wanted. I did have a question I want to ask the audience. There's so much ball smashing fetish content, right guys. I've seen this guys jumping on to saw horses with their balls getting kicked in the balls doing this kind of stuff and it's for sexual pleasure.

My question is, why don't their balls get mashed up so bad that they need to be replaced? Side stories LPOTL with gmail.com.

“I think when you involve a horse it changes everything, right?”

I'm sure they do. I did actually work with a girl in Brooklyn. We worked at this flower shop together many years ago and she made extra money doing ball fetish videos. Yes, and she said that like it looks much worse than it is. Oh, you better pull in it? They're pulling it. Yeah, they're pulling it. You can't go all wheelie nearly.

Some of these guys like it and their balls fucking hammer. Yeah, I'm sure some of them definitely lose their balls. Yeah, they're very, very delicate. Side stories [email protected]. Even though John didn't even try to compete in the 1976 Olympic games, he was still made a manager as a reward for his financial contributions.

That meant that John DuPont could wear the team's warm-up uniform and pose with them for a photo, which gave John the illusion that he had actually earned a spot on the team. And the illusion was enough for John. Usually that's kind of all he needed, because John was indeed starting to lose his grip on reality. As it turned out, in addition to everything else, John was also schizophrenic. And by this point in his life, he's one of those guys where it seems to have showed up in his mid to late 20s and really started getting going hard in his 30s.

But after that, the rest of the DuPonts, they more or less washed their hands of this odd ball relative who was obsessed with swimming in birds instead of horse racing in institutionalized mass murder. How will we reach these keys? How will we reach him? He needs to be making forever Camel. And he tried tweeting at it.

Oh, he's not interested in the burning point of human friend. I don't know what to talk about.

That's fine.

And so, with near unlimited funds, no sense of consequence and zero social skills, John DuPonts mental illness quickly became a danger to those around him.

In the late 70s, for example, a swim coach that John knew had been invited out to Fox catcher farms and that swim coach brought along his young son. The coach's son was taking a swim in the estate's pond while John was fishing there. But John became enraged because the fish weren't biting. They weren't doing what he wanted them to do. Sounds like a Ponzi skin.

I love it. You should be filled with fish now. You know what I mean?

“You should be absolutely filled with other fish and then you bring fish to other empty ponds after you've taken the fish from them.”

And then you got to do that and you pay back. You're robbing fish to pay carp. I think you're back here at Cajusapont. I can tell you one. Oh, wow.

That's amazing. Well, John eventually decided that the reason why the fish weren't biting was because the local geese were casting spells on him. So, John pulled out his handgun and started shooting at the Pon geese completely forgetting that a child was swimming in the pond. And John came very close to shooting his guess son.

That's fucking power, man. He's just being a piece of shit. He knew what he was doing. Yeah, no. He definitely knew what he was doing. But that's the thing about the, it's the consequence thing because you know, I definitely don't want to implying anyway whatsoever that being schizophrenic makes someone inherently dangerous. It absolutely does not.

You're unmedicated and you're under if you're not doing stuff like that. Well, even if you're unmedicated, it still doesn't make someone inherently dangerous. It doesn't. It absolutely does. It absolutely does. It makes anything anybody inherently dangerous. Yeah, yeah, having multiple load of guns on it.

That helps see that. That's not a good thing to have. Yeah, and because a lot of people are stopped, you know, by their own sense of consequence, their own sense of like if I do this, that will happen.

“I mean, that's why we have not guilty by reason reason of insanity because some people do cross the threshold”

where they don't know the difference between right and wrong.

John DuPont always knew the difference between right and wrong.

But his schizophrenia did make him far more unpredictable and far more dangerous than, you know, the regular person. He would have cared either way. Yeah, the John's burgeoning mental illness and his pension for carrying around massive loaded weapons. That didn't stop him from getting married in 1983. The wedding was massive with over 500 guests.

A true DuPont affair. But the marriage only lasted a few months because John DuPont was highly abusive in addition to everything else. So, John DuPont was also an alcoholic and when he drank, he got mean. Allegedly, in just a few months, that he was married to his first and only wife. John's through her into a burning fireplace, tried to shove her out of a moving car and threatened her with a knife.

In an incident that sounds like the last straw, John wants even how the gun to his wife's head and accuser of being a Russian spy. Saying, quote, "Russian spies get shot." [laughter] I have to avoid. [laughter]

I have to do that.

John's first wife fled never to return.

But following the departure of John's wife after he showed her, just how dangerous he could truly be, John decided to focus completely on athletics. While also bringing himself closer to local law enforcement, this is another thing that I think he did very much on purpose. What really started the wrestling obsession? We have no idea.

We'll get to it here in a bit. We're going to-- that's a whole thing. But we'll get to it in a bit. We have no idea. John built a 14,000 square foot world class athletic training facility on Fox catcher farms in 1985.

But that facility also included a shooting range. While John did indeed use the range to become an expert marksman along with everything else, he also invited the local cops to use the shooting range for training. A lot of rich guys do this. Make the cops, your friends, and you can get away with anything.

Murdock family, we've seen it over and over again. Yeah. John kept a close relationship with the local cops from Benon, donating money, buying them equipment, and even letting them use his helicopter. But consequently, the new town township police department gave John his very own police badge,

which, Joe John, yet again, that he could buy his way in a pretty much anything. Yeah, but doesn't mean anything. It's another thing that he's fucking gave him. You know, well, you know, the average person on the street don't fucking know that. No, I know.

He shows a-- when he shows a very official looking, well, what is an official police badge?

“I mean, that's what Alec Murdock did when he was driving around with it.”

And there's fucking front dash. Steven's a call and check. Yep. All the shack was a honest cop. And so was Elvis.

[LAUGHTER]

to be worth about $200 million by the year 1987,

“had meant that the police ignored behavior from John that ran from simply concerning”

to outright criminal. For example, sometime during the '80s, John took a stick of dynamite and blew up a litter of newborn baby foxes for no apparent reason. Yeah, it's called Fox catcher and a fox blow up her. Fox exploding.

Fox exploding is a cool, the Album name. Yeah. It's Fox exploded. It's like a disco punk album from like 2005. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, that's it. Next from less spot Savi Fav, Fox exploded. And while some might say sure, he can do what he wants. It's his property. Most people don't have tanks on their property, like John Dupont had.

Somehow, John had bought a tank that had been stripped of its weapons. And John used it to drunkenly joy ride the vehicle around the estate.

Sometimes even brought it up for local parades.

Around Christmas time 1984, a police officer in his wife, who were living in one of Fox catcher farms. Many houses, they said they heard that tank a common. John was, of course, drunk and had driven the tank through the trees. This was the type of tank that sank the political career of Michael Dukakis.

You remember Michael Dukakis with his goofy little head sitting up like, "Outside like he's riding the tank." And he's got the helmet and he's looking so happy.

“And that's why George H.W. Bush won the presidency.”

Because that's the fucking tank. The old days won embarrassing picture. Yeah, could destroy your entire career. And it's not even that embarrassing. Look it up. He's just like grinning.

He's having a good time. But guess what that is? It raging. Yeah. That makes me angry.

Just see, honestly, truly. Look at Michael Dukakis's smile. See, you don't want to absolutely destroy it. Yeah. Who would Dan Quill, misspelled potato ruined his life?

Yeah. There's the only thing a wheat, it's like number one joke in Mad Magazine for good five years. The rest is, yeah. It's old jail, I know. Shit.

Shit. Hey, didn't even know how to stop the tank. Hey, didn't even know how to stop the tank. Yeah. Unbelievable.

Well, this is the one. Of course, where the head goofily sticks out the top. Since John had just barreled right through a bunch of tree branches, he was covered in blood. This face is a scratch to shit. Yeah.

But John had no fear driving a tank drunk in bleeding up to a cop's house, even if it was On his own property. Instead, John park the tank out front and yelled for the officer to quote, "Come out of play. Come out of play." No, they own all the land.

And there's a fence around the land. And you own the tank. On that land, can you not drive the tank drunk? I know. I don't think you can.

You know me driving even on property because they did this with this actually came down with

the bill Murray case with the golf cart because they were trying to, he was basically said

all that and they're like, "Well, you're drunk and a moving vehicle." We caught you. Yeah. But because by that logic, you could murder someone, but hey, it's on my own property. Yeah.

You have to, you have to not. Yeah, it's a loss a lot most of the time.

“But the worst thing John deponted in the 80s, which, again, it's all relative here,”

was when he was driving his Lincoln Continental and hit a flagman directing traffic. He hit a traffic cop with his car in broad daylight. Yeah, the dressed in yellow wave and flags. Not a good thing to do. Now that's what I'm making talking about now.

Think about him. It made himself so obvious. When John hit him, the traffic cop rolled over John's hood and slammed on the ground. And John did at the very least stop. He dragged the obviously injured traffic cop to the sidewalk and sat with him for a few moments.

But eventually you just said, "You'll be all right." And then drove away. Just as the police arrived. You know, I would like to ask you the question of, "Why aren't you flat?" [laughter]

When I hit things with my gun that they were dead into flat little pancakes. They were dead with a paper like paper. Yeah. Good thing you went up and knocked down. And then understand, you want your job like a robin?

You're starting to fall in the dark for the own territory. Yeah, you're starting to fall in the dark for the own territory. Yeah, you're starting to fall in the dark for the own territory. [laughter] Well, John, he just drove to his estate and fucked off somewhere in his helicopter.

And when he returned to Foxcatcher Farms, the only consequence faced for the hit and run of a traffic cop was a meager fine for $42.50. Might as well be fucking pocket-land to a guy like John Depont. Yeah.

Now, while John Depont's interest in athletics ran from swimming to target shooting, he eventually settled upon wrestling as his number one love. Although, nobody is exactly sure why John Depont became obsessed with wrestling, just as no one can answer the question of why he was obsessed with birds, or swimming, or target shooting.

He just found something and hyper-focused on it for sometimes years at a time.

or rich, like you could buy the entire scene, right?

Like it's what you just get to skip past everybody. We were joking about how I got to meet, like if you show interest in a small world, you can get access to everybody, and met a lot of like professional-blowing glass artists.

Yeah, all of a sudden, you can meet everybody that's ever been the top-of-blowing glass if you ask them. Yeah, I mean, they're excited to meet you. You know, they wanted what they were like, "Dupont might have understood if you choose and obscure thing,

you can own it entirely." It's damn good point. Yeah. And those people are going to want to talk, because no one ever asked them about it. Yeah, here's my theory.

I think that he got into wrestling. That, because he was homosexual or anything,

“but because he found it to be the only way he would ever touch a person.”

I know what? That's really there could be something to that. Yeah. The tactile need he has. You can see he's like a little boy. He just feels like a little boy.

He looks like a little boy that's never been hugged.

And this is how he can get millions of millions of bucks. Well, John had wrestled in high school, but in 1986, competitive wrestling became John DuPont's new obsession. But this was John's first obsession that actually involved other people and it would eventually end in murder.

John DuPont was not interested in the professional wrestling we see on TV. He wasn't trying to hang out with Jake the snake robbers. Yeah, the real wrestling. Yeah, the real cool thing here. [laughter]

I'm going to get the fucking shit beat out of it, guys. I'm just... Listen, I'm barely straight. Yeah. A rather John became obsessed with the Olympic style

of competitive wrestling, where two guys just walk on to a mat

“and grapple each other until one of them gets pinned for a single second.”

It's not a three-fall. I just want. I know, it's annoying.

I almost thought it was three.

Here that sound? The relaxing sounds. They ace of my world. The collegiate wrestling. [laughter]

Fuck. Oh, I'm coming. Oh, you got me so good. You were doing so good. Dude, you got me so good.

Started saying that you did not think that the wrestling... And now... Now I'll explain my ears. [laughter] And what's different?

What, how long, Rob? 20 minutes? deeper. 35 minutes. Get me with it.

You fucker. You fucking... My girlfriend. You know why it's not gay? No gay man would choose to do something

that would ruin his ears like that. [laughter] My picture perfect ear. [laughter] They're back in the 80s.

Wrestling was not what you would call America's sport. A lot of colleges didn't even have wrestling programs. And John DuPont noticed that nearby Villanova University was totally bereft of sweaty young men hustling with each other on a competitive level. So John convinced Villanova, and by convinced I mean he gave him a lot of money,

to let him start an NCAA team from scratch. Now in the mid 80s, the best competitive wrestler in America was arguably a man named Dave Schultz. John wanted Dave Schultz as Villanova's wrestling coach. But Dave had just gotten a raise coaching at Stanford University.

So Dave suggested his brother, Mark Schultz, who was also a gold medal winning competitive wrestler. Now the Schultz brothers have a fascinating story all on their own. Born in Palo Alto, California in 1959 and 1960, the Schultz brothers were natural athletes. Back, their parents said that Mark Schultz had a six pack and sculpted muscles by the age

of four, which sounds like a bizarre and terrifying sight to behold. Yeah, Mark, I'm trying to see this. That's a kind of build you get on a boy from slave labor. You can't get anymore. You can't make a boy build a boat anymore.

Yeah, I remember watching an episode of Mori once, it was like the world's most muslim kid. I remember that. I remember that.

“I remember that little Jack could come out doing pull ups.”

Yeah, mallet. Yeah. I heard his mouth was even dilated. He just ripped it open himself. Yeah, he walked out standing.

Oh, yeah. While Mark came to be known as the sledgehammer for the brutal wrestling style he developed, his brother Dave was described as the Yoda of wrestling. See, Dave was dyslexic. And the way his brain was wired enabled him to master the technical aspects of wrestling,

which led to the creation of new winning techniques and strategies. Dave Shultz changed the game. He was a fucking animal. He was. And I love why I actually started like looking up his matches, like watching him go, like actually

made me see more of the sport truly. Yeah.

And I love hairy back. Yeah. That's why I love this.

You never see these fuckers anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. Like a King Kong Bundy. I love it. Just hairy and and just fucking love that fucking guy.

But I loved about Dave Shultz. From what I could tell I could be wrong. Is that, you know, like Mark was very intense. But Dave was like, shake your hands, smile at you, hang out with your type of guy. Yeah.

And then fight you to the death. That's what Mark said. Mark said he's like, don't ever fool. Don't let him fool you. He's like never let his personality fool you.

He was the most brutal mother fucker he's ever met to wrestle with on the face of the planet. Dave Shultz was like a master. Yeah. Yeah. Since wrestling was neither a popular nor a well-funded sport, the Shultz is ended up

in low paying assistant coaching jobs after college, like most competitive wrestlers who wanted to make wrestling a career. But even though both of them had to move back in with their dad and Palo Alto and this really gives you a perspective on competitive athletics. Yes.

They both competed in the 1984 Olympics. They both won gold medals.

They were the first brothers in history to even win medals at the same Olympic games, much less

win the gold. Despite their accomplishments though, there were no financial opportunities for competitive wrestlers. No sponsorship deals for singlets. And the Shultz brothers seemed to feel like pro wrestling was beneath them. So the Shultz's had limited means of making money if they wanted to make wrestling a full-time

“gig and that cannot be that is probably the most important aspect of the story.”

You mean to tell me you don't think that it was worth it for them to put on like sort of like a semi-garb of another race. Go to the place and do steroids. Your name is Tataka. Your name's Tataka.

You're all right of America. Name Shultz. Let me guess. Japanese. And you are.

Yeah. Yeah. You got to go in there. That's got to be hard. Can you play Arab?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

She looks like he's getting a little.

Let me show you first. Let me show you. Yeah. How do I feel if they made him the rabbi? Wow.

The wrestling rabbi is a great idea. I really think anyone take it. If you're a wrestler and you're looking for an identity, please be the rabbi. And actually he wouldn't have to change his name at all. It's like hello.

My name is David Shultz on the wrestling rabbi. - Yeah, come here, very nice. - Come here, come closer. - I'm on my fifth suppress. (laughing) - Oh, and he said no one's a circumcision.

He said no one. - He said no one. - That's an abomination that gets God's creation. - Give you an abomination. - I'm glad you didn't get the little knife. (laughing) - The things got desperate for Mark Schultz,

when he was fired from his coaching job at Stanford University in the summer of 1986. I meant that Mark had no place to train for the upcoming 1988 Olympics. I will also see why his family

was really asking about that. I can see why because if he's spending all of this money, you would assume that if he's a new pont and according to family,

“that he would have a view on a long, form business plan, right?”

And what's funny about wrestling is that there was none. There's no money to be made. No, so he was just, that's kind of, I think that's a part of the reason why they were like, why you're literally just flushing money,

you're just giving money away. - Yeah, oh, you mean how the rest of the DuPont's saw, you're just giving money to these strangers. - Yeah, they didn't see the point in it. - No, of course it's horse racing,

you might win some, but that's the thing. - The horse racing is horse trading and breeding and sell the horse. There's other ways to make money. - There's money, people buy tickets to go.

- Yes, they make money within that. - That's why I'm playing. - Yes, the horse racing is actually extremely lucrative and all of the world of it. So you can see why they're like,

they'll make the one makes money off of this. - Unless it's like the big five sports, we do not take care of our athletes, especially our Olympic athletes. - No, in America, other countries like literally,

you can make it your career and you have a good life and you have a nice house, but in America, we could give a shit. - Well, no, we run on the capitalist, we run the capitalist model of like,

if it's worth something, then a rich weirdo will dane upon himself to give you money to do your thing.

“Or you have to wait until somebody makes it like,”

I have decided that this is valuable enough to give you money. - And all of America's are really good at what we do here too is that if you're already making money, then, hello, help comes. - Yeah.

- So that'll happen, as you became, if he went and he got a gold medal and then he put out an album and then he did, and he was already making all this money, other stuff would come to help him make more money. - Yeah.

Well, in Mark Schultz's moment of greatest desperation, he's lost his job at Stanford, he needs to train for the 88 Olympics. That is when Mark Schultz got a call from John DuPont. John called up Mark and told him about this wrestling job

at Villanova. He told him that Mark would have the opportunity at the age of 26 to build a program from the ground up.

But John told Mark repeatedly that his only motivation

“for hiring him, doing the program, all of it,”

was the elevation of wrestling. - It had to be. - Well, I mean, he said that his motivations were far. - We're real, real motivations were far worse. But finding funding for these sorts of athletic endeavors,

it's the number one problem faced by elite athletes in America. And Mark hope that wrestling was finally gonna have a money man who would support his sport regardless of cost. This is also wrapped up in the Cold War, because the Russians had consistently produced

the best wrestlers in the world. And this goes to your point Eddie, this is due to the fact that Soviet wrestlers, like all Soviet Olympic athletes, the reason why the Soviets

were always so incredible at the Olympics

is because these people lived and competed only for the glory of the Soviet Union. They had no other responsibilities and they spent their entire lives training. - Yeah, and then training, and spares.

(laughing) - Yeah, you know what I mean? - From what I hear, and it's fun, man.

“- And so if America had the capitalist version of that set up,”

by E.E. A rich weirdo with a lot of time on his hands, then maybe American wrestlers could compete in the world championships on a consistent basis. - It's not an incorrect idea. - It's not.

- So despite the fact that Mark felt that John DePont was at the very least hiding something, he said yes to John's offer. And when Mark met John DePont for the first time, Mark said that he immediately got the vibe that John was a massive loser. As Mark put it, John DePont was like Richie Rich,

all grown up, but with a drug problem. John also had a bizarre appearance. John DePont was nearly 50 years old by the time he met Mark. And since he was going gray, he had taken to dying his hair. Problem was, John had chosen Ronald McDonald Red

as his hair color, and he hadn't kept up with it. So his natural gray hair color had taken over. Gray roots, red on the side. He had his weird middle part hair cut. - He's very strange hair cut, yeah.

- Honestly, if I saw that haircut, I would have turned around.

I feel like it's that hair cut was the very first warning.

- And the redness left in John's hair only highlighted the thick layer of dandruff that covered John's head. John also had dark yellow teeth, caked with food. And when John started talking, it was obvious

that he was either drunk, stone, or both. This is their first meeting. Mark, however, had called around to his wrestling buddies for advice on what to do in this situation. And every single one of them had told him that this was

an unbelievable situation and opportunity that he could not pass up. So Mark decided that he was going to put up with John DuPont's weirdness for the good of the sport. - Or mind me of every single thing, every little girl

and Southern Florida was saying about Epstein, about what was going on, and then every older friends that were all embedded in it, and we're telling them the same thing. Just being like, "It's a lot of money."

- Yeah, yeah, I was watching the behind the scenes on the making of the movie Foxcatcher with Steve Correll. And everyone who knew John DuPont, that saw Steve Correll on set, was like, it's unbelievable.

He's got everything. He looks exactly like him. He acts just like him. He's got everything that's similar to him except for the smell. (laughing)

- Yeah, John DuPont, like a guy, legitimately. He looked like he fucking re... - Yeah. - Now, Mark's John DuPont's mini shortcomings. He had no social skills, which translated

to horrendous table manners. John would talk with his mouth full, spraying food and spit all over anyone unlucky enough to sit next to him during a meal. Before long, Mark recognized that John was the most miserable man

he'd ever met. But it wasn't just because he was strange and difficult. Mark quickly saw how manipulative John DuPont can be. He saw how John DuPont saw the world.

All the manipulation always came down to money.

Like most people with generational wealth on the level of the DuPonts, John knew how much power his money allowed him to have over other people. And John truly believed that everyone had their price. And if they didn't have a price,

John had the power to ruin, whoever didn't play by his rules, once they were in his immediate orbit. And remember how small of a world competitive wrestling is. - Yeah.

- Now, John was vague when Mark asked how involved John was gonna be in the wrestling program at Villanova. But he did give the impression that he would be largely absent.

- Don't even know I'm here. Mark, of course, quickly discovered when he started at Villanova in the fall of 1986, that this was a lie. See, John had told Mark that the school

was gonna build a dedicated wrestling facility on campus. But when that didn't manifest, John insisted on training the Villanova wrestlers at his facility at Foxcatcher Farm,

“so which honestly was probably John's plan all along.”

- Oh yeah. - Mark also came to realize that part of his job

See, not too long after starting his job at Villanova,

Mark was invited over to John's estate, where he was surprised to find a party, already in progress.

“To a guy like Mark, the whole thing was immediately weird.”

He was just a room full of mysterious men in suits. And so, Mark was introduced to a guy named Bob, who John said was his quote unquote, "events organizer." Now, know what you're thinking. But Bob was no Jelaine Maxwell.

Rather, Bob's main job was to organize and host awards ceremonies that John DuPont held in his own honor, complete with awards that John would commission from the local trophy shop and award them to himself.

- That's worse than it just laid Maxwell. (laughing) I feel like with it just laid Maxwell, at least you're getting blown, you're getting sex out of it.

Just the idea of you setting up a fake award ceremony.

- It's a funny thing to say. - Yeah. (laughing) - Yes, yeah, but you get something out of it. We're something like this.

This is a year's getting a trophy, they're all looking at each other, it's very straight. - It's very, very straight. - It's extremely straight, man.

“I bet that trophy guy didn't ask no questions though.”

- No, no, no, no, no, I'm not happy. - I bet when you want to tell him that you got, what else did you wish? - Okay, congrats. - That's the music.

- John DuPont was arrested. I bet that fucking trophy shop guy, I bet he shot himself in the fucking hat. (laughing) - It's over.

I'm overextended on so many loans. - I get a post of Stephanie out of private school. (laughing) - On that night, John was drunker than usual, and as drunk people usually are,

he was there for more exhausting. Mark said that John had the ability to suck the life out of people, and most of the guests were either annoyed or worn out by John before Mark even showed up.

- He's a psychic vampire, like, of the utmost. - A biased level. When Mark walked in,

“John's are castically called him Powell,”

loudly saying, quote, "Look, you're here, Powell." (laughing) - John then got on his hands and knees and crawled up to Mark. Mark barely knew John at this point. John then grabbed Mark by the waist

and clawed up Mark's body while repeatedly calling him - Ow! - Oh, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my fucking nobody's on you. (laughing)

- I'm sure everyone present side, rolled their eyes, and looked at their watches. - Yeah. - A lot of times, you know, like, that's interesting whenever you meet someone

who's like that rich and crazy, because then you're just looking at it 'cause they get away with it because they're so rich and you're like, "Man, that guy's crazy, man."

- You look excited about it first.

- Of course, yeah. - But the difference is here is that all the other people in the room, they've seen it all before. - Oh, every time. - And with Mark, this is his new boss.

And he is starting to see, like, "Oh, this is what I signed up for, fuck me." - So I should stand up to Henry. (laughing) - No, no, no, no, no, you're not learning. (laughing)

- The John DuPont did stay out of the Villanova Athletics Department for the first few weeks of the job. 'Cause while the training facilities were out at Foxcatcher, Mark's office on the Villanova campus was shared with the school's baseball coach.

But pretty quickly, John started dropping by, drunk, high, or both, barging into Mark's office to rant for hours on in, using a highly annoying vocal tech. See after every statement, John was known to end his rant with the phrase, "You understand what I'm saying?"

(laughing) And this is John's way to get people to acknowledge him. No matter how bizarre his statements were, in an example, Mark Schultz gave it his book, John went showed up to his office and said,

"Well, I'm really crazy, Blue Bear is right now, man. "If I'm basketball, Blue Bear is right now, "I would eat 'em all up, yum, yum, yum, yum. "You understand what I'm saying?" - Why is he now like, kind of jives?

I don't know what he's doing, but I really, I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I don't know what he's doing, but I really play the boobers, I really play the boobers, I really play the boobers, I really

at one of the most well-known colleges in America, but since John Dupont had donated so much money to Villanova, money that spread far beyond the fledgling wrestling program, he was pretty much allowed to do whatever he wanted, nobody of Villanova ever said no to John Dupont. In fact, it soon became part of Mark Schultz's job description to deal with Dupont whenever John wanted to drop by the campus in Yammer, which became an increasingly frequent occurrence as the months

went by. Man, you know it was already hard to sell from that actually do paperwork. Yeah, you know the wrestling. He's a fucking lifelong wrestler. He's been an assistant coach. Yeah. And let's see, only job that he's had is assistant wrestling coach.

kitchens and shit, they make you a chef and the next thing you know, you're the managers, I just don't want to cook. Yeah, I don't want you to think of something I'm doing schedules and like, yeah, doing wing math. You know, like, you know how to do onion rings? Let's see, you do tax. Since this program, Villanova was new, it was difficult to attract wrestlers. So after John hired a wrestler named Chuck Yarnol as head coach, John and Chuck would roam the Villanova campus

looking for guys wearing high school wrestling t-shirts. Nothing gay about any.

Nothing remotely. First time I agree with you. They would then approach these guys unsolicited and

say, hey, you want to join a wrestling team? Well, they have a president out of you feel about taking that wrestling for a bad shirt to buy a body. Well, to try to entice guys who were on the fence about wrestling for a drunk weirdo with bright red hair costing them on their way to class, John would give these guys rides on his private jet or rides on his helicopter. You promised them full scholarships, even though he had no authority

to do so. The method, of course, did not turn up any all stars. So John and Chuck gave up after a few weeks just roaming the campus. Took them a while to realize, hey, Mark Schultz is an actual gold medal winning wrestler. Maybe we should get him to do the recruiting. Yes. And then after Mark started doing the recruiting, the program did start to attract some pretty solid wrestlers.

“Villanova, I think they'd still are pretty well known for the wrestling. Why are they”

hanging in generals a big wrestling state? Yeah, right behind. I think I was the biggest and then Pennsylvania's like number two. I believe. I'm sure I'll get you all that. Yeah, I think they're pretty huge. I think Wisconsin might be number one. But I do definitely think that if you put your thumb on the scale with that kind of money in this world, it does crazy stuff. Well, in the on the collegiate level, this was back before they were like, yeah, we need to keep money and

college separate. Like on the collegiate level, his money really didn't do a whole lot. It wasn't until he took it out of the collegiate, you know, the collegiate sphere that his money really made a difference. Now, the group that would become the infamous team Foxcatcher was a different entity from the Villanova wrestling team that Mark had been hired to rebuild. Team Foxcatcher started as more of an all around athletics program, but included training for swimming, the patathalon,

and the triathlon. Because you believe his first obsession was the pentathlon. He did let

you know, yes, he was at what was swimming first, and then it was the pentathlon. The pentathlon is that the one with shooting two or is that the, the, the, the, the, was the other one, the 10 one.

“I have no idea. Which one's the one where you race to a woman. She's stuck in a well. You have to pull”

the penny hose down before the water. It's fancy. It should the guy in the pussy, the trans man in the pussy, and a modern pentathlon was fencing, swimming, a question show jumping, and a combined laser run of pistol shooting and running. Jesus, right. That is strictly for rich people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is just about killing humans for sport. Oh, yeah. I'm so proud of it. Now jump on your horse. And now have your high powered laser rifle. Like

would come on. That's fine. Okay. I admittedly, I did, since this is quick, I did read that off of AI. So, I'm at my god knows if that's true. But still, that's fun. Is hell. I want to do that sport. Yeah. I want to ride on my horse with a sword and a gun and either. Hey. And then think about that. Put them all together. One act all together. Two people on a horse

is sword gun. Who kills the other first? Yeah. And then we could bring it like the pro wrestling

angle into it. And we could give you a turban and call you the Sultan. Oh, yeah. Especially because I got all that brown makeup in my suitcase. Well, wrestling was actually added to team Fox catcher later. And it was done with such little thought at the beginning that the wrestlers had to put down mats in the shooting range and train in there. But since the clearance is low and shooting ranges to prevent ricochets, the wrestlers couldn't lift each other above their heads

less they smash each other into the ceiling. That's fun though. It is fun. But once the program moved out to Fox catcher farms, John began throwing around cash to recruit none collegiate wrestlers. Guys who had won competitions, but didn't have any other avenue to make money. And that is when Dave Schultz, John DuPontz, eventual murder victim, joined his brother mark in Pennsylvania. A Dave was still coaching on a collegiate level and figured he could draw two paychecks here.

And since Mark didn't think his brother had any intention of leaving coaching, he didn't warn Dave about what an incredibly annoying weirdo John DuPontz could be. Pretty soon, once more Burley Men started showing up at Fox catcher farms along with Dave,

“Dave was the draw. That's what I feel men are together in the air.”

That's like a bunch of fucking clam meat. Just jumping into the air.

he collected seashells and stuffed birds. And John's father had collected horses.

“The difference is that wrestlers are actual human beings. But that means they're also far more fun”

for someone like John DuPontz to manipulate. He saw them as toys, as objects. And according to Mark, if you did not want to be displayed on John's wall like an object, things could go very bad very quickly. That soon became obvious that this whole wrestling thing was heavily wrapped up in John DuPontz ego. In 1988, John hired a camera crew for a documentary about himself called "Quest for the Best!"

Which actually aired on the Discovery Channel. John also wrote a 115-page book called "Off the Map," building winners in life. But it's almost certain someone else took the brunt of the writing,

because while Mark never saw John DuPontz writing a book, he did hear John drunkenly dictating

the book into a tape recorder from time to time. Mark was also asked to write the forward for the book. But the finished product was published with an addition put in by John DuPontz. While the draft that Mark Schultz turned in mentioned nothing about John's coaching, the finished product had Mark saying that he could not have accomplished anything without John's guidance. Not even this forward, which I did not write. Me not being John DuPontz.

John also made Mark's life more difficult in other ways, seemingly just to play with him. John made Mark fire Villanova's head coach that guy that you said, "Wonder the campus wet." It's very important. But instead of giving Mark the job, John DuPont took the title of head coach for himself. Villanova, of course,

followed John's lead by releasing a statement saying, "No, no, no! John DuPontz always

been the head coach." John also tried controlling and manipulating Mark by nickel and diamond. Throwing a fit about the cost of paper clips one day, then taking a private jet to another country the next, just so John could fire the starting gun at a triathlon.

“Well, seems like it just wasn't going fast enough for him. Well, I think John was also a person who”

he could get emotionally dysregulated very easily. There were not a lot of people in his life that were forced to be around him. People that he could take that out on. And Mark Schultz was forced to be, it was part of Mark's job to take the brunt of John DuPontz emotional dysregulation. Well, he's one of those guys that believes every single interaction with humans is transactional. Yeah. So he, on some level, it goes away from, I feel like I wonder, it's like a selfishness

bordering on sociopathy that you wonder if it's clinical or not. Like you don't know whether or not that it's like he literally can't have empathy for other human beings or is he just fucking lost in the sauce of many different mental illness descriptions of rampant alcohol and drug use. And just be in just a straight up fucking weirdo. I mean, it does like raise the question of like, if you're raised with this amount of extreme wealth, like you, I know that, you know, people are

most people who are raised with this amount of extreme wealth, like they don't look at the rest

“of us as people. No, it even begs the question, do they even look at each other as people?”

I doubt it. Do they see, do they have the sort of, you know, interaction that is necessary to make a human. Apple Paltrow's going to decide who lives or dies. Do you guys understand it? She's going to decide, that's who's going to decide. Lily Rose's depth is going to lead the ground invasion of Iran. It's what's going to happen. She's the great job. I think she's great there. Isn't she part of empire? No, she's part of pirates. Vampire pirates.

Sorry. That's right. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. Jail, which is in my house. Hey, I'm going to stick me. I'm John also got highly inappropriate with the wrestlers as was demonstrated by a so-called move that John invented called the Foxcatcher five. Was this in the movie? No, it was not in the movie. It was not in the documentary. Really surprised. I mean, I'm not surprised it wasn't in the documentary. Surprise, it wasn't in the movie.

the Foxcatcher five, it will be fun. Yeah. It's going to be really fun. Yeah. Well, in this

“move, John would simply grab a wrestler's test. He wrote it down. Wow. Well, in this move,”

John would simply grab a wrestler's testicles with his whole hand. That's it. It's just grabbing a guy's balls and calling him a move. What's that move? No, I mean, it's a move. It's a move of sorts. Now, Mark said that he was going to be on the receiving end of the Foxcatcher five one day. John held out his hand like a claw and moved towards Mark's clock. Cut the clothes. Playfully saying, well, let's catch a fire. The flags catch you.

That is coming. Here's the Foxcatcher one. Foxcatcher two. I'm my favorite boxcatcher three

of cause they get the middle. Bye catch a fall. I'm Foxcatcher. Ooh, the pickie comes around the corner

of the ball. Got it so hard not to hit you. I don't know how these guys say. No, that day. But it was possible to make John back off in these moments. And after Mark gave him a withering stare, John ended the bet. I guess he's other people find things funny and I guess how people don't find things funny. Other wrestlers, however, we're not so lucky. A lot of them got their balls grabbed by John DePont at Foxcatcher Farms. And since John was

giving them all opportunities that otherwise wouldn't exist, the ball grabbing became just another thing to put up with. This is where I will put the idea that John DePont, again, I was making jokes talking about all the stuff. But really, it's about like masculine horse play. Sure. That he has no idea how to do. Yes. Yeah. He does not know how to engage with these big strong men. He wants to be a big strong man and thinks he is a big strong man. And he thinks

it's just collecting the big strong men around him will make him one. And I think in that way, this is one of those like nut-tapper scenarios that all men have to deal with when you have to deal with everybody doing pain games with each other. But he's doing it as a thin, needle-faced,

“weird nerd against a bunch of actual, very powerful men. The problem is you should have broke”

his body. Well, they also knew that once he started like grabbing on him and wrestling on them, that they would just have to let him do his thing. Oh, yeah, you're like, you're supposed to honestly, if he gets up at you. Let him finish. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny to watch him wrestle these guys. Oh, yeah. The footage, there's so much footage of John DePont trying to wrestle these world-class athletes in the documentaries. And he just, he looks like a fish trying to wrestle a man. Yeah,

he's like, he's like just kind of flopping back and forth between their hands and like a circle around them like they're like they're in a jitter bug. And you can, the wrestlers are trying to figure out how to let him win. Yes. Now, relations between Mark and John unsurprisingly began to disintegrate, but not because of Mark's performance. Mark actually won the 1987 World Championships of wrestling. He demolished the Soviets just like he hoped he could. But Mark was not behaving in the way that John

wanted him to. So on Christmas Day, 1987, John called up Mark and fired him from Villanova, adding that Mark shouldn't even come back to campus because, quote, "The cops were looking for him." Now, Mark hoped that he could still train at Foxcatcher Farms because he was desperate. He had

seen what he could accomplish with John's financial backing. The Americans could finally compete

with the Russians. I can't stress enough. Watch the 30 for 30 to see him to really describe

“the wrestler's life. That's what I really appreciated about that documentary about how he had two”

jobs. And he was training for the Olympics. And he was doing, it's just, it's, it's, it's thankless. Also training for wrestling is harder than any other sport. Yeah. But when Mark went back to John's mansion in January of 1988 to ask, hey, can I still train here? He found John just struck his ever yelling and repeating, what else? But Mark eventually loved. But the next day, John actually called Mark and told him, sure, you can train here. You could go back. But the only condition

is that you got to live on the farm. Edela, let's just say, would we all watch a TV? Your favorite seat? Is this right, Nate? Right, Peter. Yeah. And you got to wear this horse suit, if he was. Mark went a carrot. Mark of course agreed. It was free rent next to a training facility. Even though the same person offering said free rent was the same guy who'd fired Mark from his job for no reason just weeks

just poor money in your life. You take that money, but then you leave. I say, do not take the money

“because the money always comes with strings attached. Every single fucking time with these rich”

assholes, it always, always either he wants to be your friend. You're, you're going to have to do

something that you really do not want to do. And they'll give you just enough to make you not successful. Yeah. With their A, no such thing as a free lunch. No, there's not. So Mark moved into the chalet right next to the big house on Fox catcher farms about a month after he'd been fired. And he soon discovered that if John was a bad boss, he was an even worse neighbor. John would randomly barge in a Mark's house, rent and raven with a gun in his hand.

And John once showed Mark a video of a surveillance van shooting lasers into a house window made it possible to hear the conversations inside the house via the windows vibrations. This

of course was a clear threat to Mark saying that John was always watching. But in between threats,

“John actually started opening up to Mark. One day, John was making them both sandwiches”

when he suddenly told Mark the story about how he lost his testicles in the horse accident. Now put some painted butter, jelly and smash them together. This reminds me. Well, John admitted, hey, I got plastic in my scrotum where my balls should be. Hey, look. And that while he was supposed to take testosterone shots every day, he did forget sometimes. And this I would imagine only contributed to John DuPont's

instability up and down and up and down. Now John DuPont tried running Villanova's wrestling team by himself after he fired Mark. But he had absolutely no idea what he was doing. The team's morale, which was now coached by the instigator of the Fox catcher five, it plummeted. And when Mark moved to the farm, John decided to shut down the Villanova wrestling program to focus on team Fox catcher, which was by this point mostly wrestlers. And so with a whole stable of the best

competitive wrestlers in America living in various houses on Fox catcher farms, John threw himself completely into the world of competitive wrestling. He donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to USA wrestling. That's the organization that governs freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling nationwide. What's the difference between the two? Free style, you can use and attack the legs. Greco-Roman, you cannot use any holds below the waist or tackle legs.

That's the only difference. Oily. Yeah. Well Greco-Roman was more served with like a shade cheese and that with freestyle normally you don't want to serve it with cheese. Yes. With Greco-Roman before you wrestled, I actually measure your back hair and if it's not at a certain length, you're not allowed. It's back hair, not a liability for a wrestler. Or is it make you slick? Like,

“if you cover yourself up a dural, like, that's what I'd do. If I got in there, I'd cover myself”

with like gasoline or something. I would think that hair actually makes you, I would think it would be a hindrance because they'd make you more tactile. These are to grab onto you. Yeah, I'm surprised, but that's how good Dave Schultz was. He was just slick to the touch, like a fucking beaver. He would velcro onto the other wrestling. He said wrestling David Schultz was like wrestling a python. Oh, it's with a hairy python. Yeah, it's me, baby. Yeah, fucker. But you certainly are kind of like one length

up and down, right your whole body. I just had to get measured for a thing. I'm exactly the same from the bottom of my belly all the way to my shoulder. I'm just saying, measure. It's amazing. It's really incredible. I explained to the guy, I'm just actually easy to make. I got an apple on two toothpicks and then afterwards he was like, you weren't lying about that apple part.

I got some view in the new year. Two tops. Yeah, never tried, tried being less of you.

John's name was soon on everything related to USA wrestling and he gave so much money that they had no choice but to give him the man of the year award. But at the same time, John was becoming more erratic and with good reason. He was over 50 years old at this point and he had injured both of his knees and his back in various athletic incidents over the years doing shit that he was too old to do. John DuPont was therefore addicted to pain medication in addition to being an alcoholic. So to

even himself out and to put a little zip in his step, John DuPont also began doing a lot of cocaine. Well, that's the whole thing about self-medicated because that if you had a what, you got to make jury about that I would be the other. And I'll just leave right now. I'm not feeling right. It's okay. Oh, we go. I love this guy. You know, Mark DuPont actually said that when John DuPont did

advertisement for cocaine. Yeah, probably ADHD in this guy. Go stimulants. I could talk for hours when

“I did cocaine. Back in the day, cocaine was clean too, man. Yeah. You could just do it without diet.”

Everybody did. Yeah. So many people did cocaine without diet. Nobody ever died. Man, they only died of being a fucking pussy. And there knows. Or from being too cool. Yeah, that's the other way to die from cocaine. Yeah. Two cool lifts. Well, as far as where John DuPont got his coke, he certainly had a dealer. But Mark said that one night, John showed up with the kilo of cocaine in a big bag marked

evidence in big orange letters. This is the evidence that we're about to do a whole night's worth of cocaine. Just like, you know, it's, you know, it's cold. That's a bit bad. I know what the crime's going to be at a time. That's a bit of a bit of a bit of a. Mark didn't think that the cops had just given John a kilo of cocaine. Instead, Mark believed that John, remember John loved cosplaying as a cop. And remember, he had a badge.

That the local cops have given him, Mark thought that John just put on the badge, put on the uniform, and then used his incredible amount of unearned confidence to just walk into the evidence locker, the local PD, to take whatever he wanted. What if he just wrote it on there?

Now this is cool. Such a funny joke. This is funny, funny stuff. Man, I just always whenever

“I think of an evidence locker, I don't know why, but I always like, where's the crossbow?”

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's not where's the crossbow section you mean. Let me just make sure I get a sneak into the evidence area. I'll be sure you got a tiptoe pass, the sleepy pills. Oh, yeah. I don't know. That's where the Mexican marching batter is. Yes, yes, yes. Listen, John DuPont was obscene. Well, he's a panther, but we're like, my mind, I imagine it was he in his head. He's a pig panther and everybody else.

He's John DuPont. Yep. Since John DuPont was obscenely wealthy, the media naturally tried as hard as they could to pinpoint an exact moment when he quote unquote changed. They of course wanted to explain away his behavior and the subsequent murder that he committed. Often they would point to the death of John's mother in 1988 as the turning point, because John's mother was the only

“family member who would have anything to do with him throughout his entire life. The media said the”

John became untethered after his mother's death. But Mark Schultz maintains that after John's mother died, absolutely nothing changed. And Mark would know, because he was actually living on John's estate when John's mother died. He was in the Schale next to the mansion and John was constantly coming in and John liked to talk. And if it really bothered him, he would have talked

about it endlessly. Oh, yes. Mark said that John DuPont never really had much to say about

his mother's death, said it didn't really affect him. He was just as weird after the death as he was before. Mark, however, eventually had enough of Fox catcher farms by 1990. You don't want to it could be interesting is that because the mother, there were a couple of times when he was throwing his own award ceremonies where his mother would come from the main house when he was living in with him in the house. And what she do is, in perfect old rich, lady form, she'd sit there and

just shake her head. And every single time she goes, she'd just be like, I don't know why. He also obsessed with this. Why are you doing this? And so I actually do think there was a relief when she was gone because now he can really do whatever he wants and not have to hear fucking word one from his stupid old mother. It doesn't get. Hold on, you don't think she was nice? No, she didn't get it. She didn't. But Mark, however, eventually had enough of Fox catcher farms

by 1990. He called up his brother Dave to help him move out. And after enduring one last paranoid rant from John DuPont, Mark broke free of Fox catcher farms forever. But while Mark was packing up his shit, John brought Dave Schultz over to his house to have a conversation. And just a few months after Mark Schultz left Fox catcher, his brother Dave Schultz moved in and took a job coaching wrestling for John DuPont. The Dave Schultz was by all accounts, a good man. He was popular, easy to

talk to. And he was said that he was not only the only wrestler who could communicate with John in a way that John would listen, he was the only person on earth who could get John to do something that John didn't want to do. And such Dave had a pretty easy time on the farm in the beginning. He was married with kids, so rather than living next to John in the Shale which he knew is a bad idea, he and his family moved into a house on the estate about a mile away from John's mansion.

Badgers. And despite John's behavior, Fox catcher farms had established a reputation for creating

by the time Dave Schultz moved in. All that donated money started doing its trick. Like it started

really building a reputation and they started getting wins and they started getting like more

“like world championship wins, because I think that's what Mark said is that he won against the”

Russians again. And that was like a big deal. And they weren't like it was starting to actually get the momentum. And John also understood the number one way to really give something a little bit of a credit card, March. And John started making the team Fox catcher merch. Like he started using pictures of Mark Schultz, you know, in front of the American flag with his goat with his championships and underneath it said team Fox catcher. If I as much as I don't like this man,

the merch was kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Soon after Dave's arrival, John built the largest

wrestling facility in America on Fox catcher farms, complete with an Olympic size swimming pool

and a mural of John DuPont competing in pentathlon. John, however, was becoming more eccentric. Now that he was building his own little world on his estate, he had taken to calling himself the golden eagle of America or the eagle for short. And he began theming his personal spaces to reflect his new chosen nickname. He had a plaque engraved and mounted on the door of his office that said the eagle's nest, which is incredibly douchey, but the bizarre addition to this office

was a big round bed. The John surrounded with sticks, which made it appear as if it was a literal

“eagle's nest. Yes. Are you a bit surprised at the lack of eggs?”

Just imagine like getting up in the middle of the night, just cutting your feet on sticks and being happy about it. Oh, yes, I've had to eagle. Oh, yeah, forgot. Call. I like that. Now Mark Schultz kept in touch with his brother, Dave, and all his other wrestler friends out at Fox catcher farms. So while the information we have from here on out is secondhand, the wrestler's still in John DuPont's thrall, where it's still very forthcoming about John's

increasingly erratic behavior. By the early 1990s, John had become convinced that the mansion was full of so-called "spirits and spies," which sounds like a great bar name. You know, yes, I'd go to

spirits and spies. Yes. Yeah, extremely whisper. You'll never go to the bathroom alone.

Well, John hired a psychic to identify the spirits. He brought in laborers to check the walls and floors for spies, and he had all the mansions, columns, and walls x-rayed for listening devices. John openly talked about his fear of interlopers with his wrestlers, telling them that they should stay on the lookout for Nazi spies hiding in the trees of the estate. You know, if I was that much, I'd be like, I caught three yesterday. I got three yesterday, you can't believe it. Man,

oh man, I'm stupid. You get a, I spent about 1,500 Uber blocking them into the prison in town, so if I could get 1,500 back, it'd be great. Now you get one of the other wrestlers to dress up as a Nazi soldier. You put like a mustache. I'm like, yeah, my name's Kunta. I'm sorry. Here we go. Kunta, here we go. Kunta, here we go. Just ones with a stick and they all go, done. We did it. They're all gone. John also became convinced that spies had built a network of

tunnels underneath the mansion, and he hired people to look for these fucking tunnels. But, of course, nothing was ever found. John then started removing things from the training facility, like treadmills, because John claimed that the clocks and the treadmills were transporting him back in time. Get it? I honestly thought. Yeah, they do. Hey dude, once you started that treadmills, like you're there for a fucking week. Come on, y'all.

Come on, y'all. Come on, y'all. You're the honey. I mean, I'm not fat. I'm just fluffy.

“Remember that? I remember that. John also believed that Rocks talked to him,”

and he became convinced that there was a device in his mansion that would spray a magical oil that could make people disappear. That's what I've done all my friends at love once. It took a hundred-year-old mansion. Yeah. So these things are like microphones inside of the columns of the hundred-year-old mansion. He thinks that people had broken in while he wasn't there, and drilled into the columns and put microphones in there, and then repaired them while he was gone.

And this is also the rise of him filming trees. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, god. He's so much footage of him filming trees. He would film a tree for an hour, right? And then he'd become convinced that the tree could move on its own. And then he'd invite people into the main house to watch his movies of the trees. And you'd go, you see that lot of both? You see that lot of both? And they're all like, "Yep, good." The guy said that they were, that was sort of like this weird thing that they were

constantly faced with. Like, "Okay, do I tell him that I see it and feed into the delusion?" Or, "Do I tell the truth and risk his wrath?" And he's going to, he's going to make me sit here

peaceful videos that we'll never be able to take me take in that way. You see, you know, I know

“that this is a nice channel. Remember when HD first started, there was a channel that was all”

sunrises? Yeah. It's not like sunrise channel. It's close-up shot. It's like not scenic. No. It's not well shot. It's like a shot of a branch for like 45 minutes. And it's him mumbling in the background. Ah, so it wasn't annoying. Yeah, it's ASMR. But the paranoid delusions were not John Deponse only fantasies. See, by this point, a Bulgarian wrestler named Valentin Yurutanoff who moved to Foxcatcher Farms to be a part of John's team. And Valentin began setting up John to compete

in wrestling matches in Bulgaria for the 50-and-up crowd, the senior wrestlers. What's called Masters? Masters. That's a nice way of putting it. So Bulgaria had been added to John's Hall of Obsessions. And he therefore made up stories that his mother had sex with a Bulgarian soldier and that made him Bulgarian. He was truly Bulgarian at heart. And at times, he even claimed to be the president of Bulgaria. He was also very fond of claiming to be the president of Bulgaria.

“Sometimes he say he was the president of the Soviet Union. Do you think anything but French?”

Because Bulgarian does Bulgaria have a specific tie to the wrestling world. There's like a thing where they're making Bulgarian wrestlers are known to be quite good. But I don't think it had anything to do with that. I think it had to do with the fact that he had a man crush on Valentin Yurutanoff. And he wanted to connect with him. Yeah, he really wanted to connect with him. He also wasn't an evil. No, I didn't have to be honest. I don't want to let down.

John also had affection for Bulgaria because the matches that Valentin set up for John in Eastern Europe were fully rigged. These Bulgarian wrestlers made more money throwing matches to John DePont than what they made wrestling in matches for an entire year. And they went to great links to make sure that John won. And these were not private matches. These were held in large auditoriums with big audiences. In one match, a Bulgarian wrestler had scored a bunch of points.

But John was too tired by the end of it to even pretend to try to fight back. But the Bulgarian wrestler knew that he couldn't beat John DePont. So the Bulgarian just threw himself onto his own back and pinned himself. The ref called the fight for John. And the other wrestlers follow in this guy's lead, hoisted John up on his shoulders and celebration, even though everyone in the room, including John DePont knew that he had fully paid for this fantasy.

You know, though, it does start to, this is where the chipping actually kind of begins. It seems as when he starts doing these fake competitions that he's winning and sitting up to win. And he's starting this man that has no experiences of other people's emotions or thoughts.

“It's starting to understand, are they making fun of me?”

Yeah, maybe. Well, this guy who wants to own people starts calling himself the master.

But the problem is that this is what we're seeing right now right in our current country.

These guys get ridiculous. And then when they get ridiculous, if you laugh at them, they'll fucking kill you. Like get ready. Like these guys are hyper serious about stuff that sounds really ridiculous because he's a madman. Yeah, and he's buying his way into it. Like he's trying to find a way into being a champion. He can't do it on his own. He can't do it just by training. He just doesn't have it. But he actually actually did get it. Like if he allowed himself

to feel it because they started to win, like Team Foxcatcher. But him, I'm talking about him. I'm not talking about Team Foxcatch is doing great. I'm talking about John DePont wrestling and other human being and actually winning. But you could actually see what he did was he set up Team Foxcatcher up to a point to rethought that maybe that would fulfill it. And then as they were winning and it wasn't him, it wasn't cutting the mustard. Yeah, it really wasn't. It's not like

Jerry Jones puts on fucking football pads and goes out there and tries to win again. We don't know, we don't practice with him. Yeah, and make that evil bastards had fucking explode. They're just I just would love to see if I get down John's thing. Bring him out of retirement. Put him in pads. Make a fucking hit Jerry Jones. Make his fucking head explode.

Is there ever been an owner? Really? That's a nice guy. Never. No. No. You can't hold a football

team and be likeable. Wouldn't the guy who owned the Browns for a while didn't people like him until he died? And then when they died, they sold the Browns. We named the team after himself. Yeah, maybe not then. Yep, maybe not. Yeah. If I was going to name after myself to be called the Modelled Picks. That's before. Well back at the farm, John was getting more reckless. One winner's day, John drove his Lincoln Continental into a pond on his estate. Likely intoxicated.

car into a pond, John? Who's the beginning of the fall of my pods he's keeping?"

“I was trying to bird out by pods he's keeping for the interest. But what?”

Doesn't bird. Well, John told the wrestler, "Get in the back seat. I'll show you." And John proceeded to drive his Lincoln through the estate, through the trees, and directly into the same pond. Just like that. John, however, left out of the car before he hit the water. The wrestler was still inside the car. When it hit the pond, "Hey, you didn't know he was going to fucking drive into the water?" And this is like in the middle of a Pennsylvania winner.

We just experienced Pennsylvania winner. We went to fill up. Great fucking show, by the way.

Thank you very much everyone for those fucking amazing show. But God damn it was cold.

That was cold. Luckily, the wrestler got out of the car before he drowned. And although he was cold, wet, and shaken, he was physically unharmed. John, of course, just walked back to the mansion without even checking to see if the wrestler was okay.

“He started walking back to the mansion before the guy even got out of the car.”

I mean, wrestlers do find this kind of stuff funny. Some of them do. He did not. Yeah, he was like, "Hi, John. He really almost got me on that one." That's a hindsight thing. I'm telling you, in the moment he was like, "This is crazy." You were wrong with this book, right? Yeah, the six hours later you're like, "I almost died." Yeah, really. Yeah, you tried to kill me.

That was said that John would hyper fixate on a hobby or an activity until he reached the peak, at least the peak by his standards, or until he got bored. And it is speculated that John lost all interest in wrestling in 1995. And as a result, he began getting far more reckless with his wrestlers. Yeah, this is the way you described it in the beginning. This is a now he's sick of his toys. Yes, exactly. And October of that year, a wrestler named Dan Shade said that he was

lifting weights in the Fox catcher facility when John walked in with an assault rifle. John crouched, aimed the gun at Dan, and told him he wanted him off the farm immediately. Dan Shade told the other wrestlers what happened, but they shrugged it off like they shrugged off everything else. Dan even made a police report, but nothing came of it. After John committed a murder, however, the police said, he came by, but he didn't file the right

paper work. So he didn't sign this form. So nothing we can do because the problem is that crimes

don't exist with a paperwork. Yeah. So without them filling up the paperwork, it's like nothing happened. Yeah. So Dan Shade soon after left Fox catcher farms. But when he returned, just to pick up some of the stuff, John reacted. John was, of course, extraordinarily drunk. He showed up at Dave Sheldt's house looking for Dan, eventually John stumbled in Dave's house, slipped, and Gash just had open on a window sill. Dave Sheldt's in his wife took John to the local ER, which of course had

a trauma center named after John DuPont. But John in true entitled Rich Contform refused to fill out any forms and literally just sat there shouting, "Don't you know who I am?" I'd ask it you. Who? I don't know who I am. It seems that from this bag, my day might be cocaine,

“John's. Yeah, I don't know, it's my day, but everything. But this incident was important,”

because it caused the first break between Dave Sheldt and John DuPont. Because Dave Sheldt's in him, he didn't really fuck with Dave Sheldt. So he fucked with Mark Sheldt. No, he didn't fuck with Dave Sheldt at all. Like Dave never put up with anything. And in fact, if if Mark, if John fucked with other wrestlers, they would actually go to Dave and like, "Hey, can you talk to John and Tom to stop doing this?" And Dave would go on the

behalf of other wrestlers and explain it in a way that for some reason John listened to,

don't know why, but he did always. But this was the first time that there was a break.

Dude, do you know what this wasn't scared of him? Yeah, we just hit me. You know who John DuPont is? Who? An aristocratic Andy Dick. Literally what he is. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, see, this is why it's fine that Andy Dick's homeless. Yes. Yeah, it's good, almost. See, John followed the police report of his own. And he told police that Dan Shade hit him with a baseball bat. Dan and John, however,

never even saw each other when Dan Shade was on the property. And when the police questioned Dave Shaltz, that's exactly what he told him. He told him the truth. But when John found out that Dave had not gone along with his lie, John requested a copy of the police report. And that same report was sitting on John's desk in his mansion when he was arrested for murdering Dave Shaltz. Now, Dave, however, had been in the process of trying to get out of the orbit

of Foxcatcher Farms when the murder finally came. See, by November of 1995, John DuPont had become

or it had to be painted a different color. John then extended that fear to black men. And he therefore kicked three black wrestlers off team Foxcatcher because he believed that they were an extension of the evil related to the color black. And this was disturbing for all of the wrestlers. But most of them, including Dave Shaltz, they stayed because they were so attached to John DuPont

“money. He was the Dave Shaltz. The only way I can deport him in this is that he was just like”

the Olympics are like in six months. He's like, I'm training for this. This is my day like I could go win this gold and then I can be out. And he's got a wife and two kids. At certain points, for some people, principals just can't come into it. He's over a fucking barrel. Yeah, it's a lot harder when you have when your principals not only cause you to lose your job, but move. No, your home is there. Your wife and kids are there vulnerable. You have a psychotic who

is like fucking ready to pop off in any minute. You're now trying to just get this out of us. You're trying to get this plane off the fucking runway. Yeah. Yeah. And he did announce that he was going to stay only until the 1996 Olympics were over. Because it's like he said, Olympics are six months away. Just let me fucking finish this. Let me do this. And then I'll go back to my wrestling job at Stanford. I would get out of here. Yeah. And Dave was the best wrestler there. He was the

most respected. He was sort of a father figure to a lot of these guys. So in Dave said he was leaving, a lot of wrestlers also decided. Fuck this. Let's go. And one of the wrestlers planning to leave

was John's beloved Bulgarian Valentin Yordnov. I just always see, wow, why do I see Valentin Yordnov

just in a speedo in a big giant like Plass cylinder? I'm coming up for a minute. See another possible motivation for the murder of Dave Schultz. And there were probably a few considering how Addle John's brain was by this point by mental illness drugs and alcohol. One of the big motivations or possible motivations is that Dave and Valentin had become close friends. And John DuPont was jealous of their relationship. But Mark didn't believe that John was gay. I don't think he was either.

“No, dude. I actually think it's more complicated than being just a gay like love affair. I think it's”

not that. I think it's that John DuPont was a highly unstable individual who didn't know how to have a human relationship and didn't know how to handle it if a human relationship ended. You know, he didn't know what friendship meant. He didn't know a companionship meant. He didn't know what any of those things meant. All he knew, he could not separate these people from the thought, like these are objects. These are my objects to play with and they're gonna act how I want them

to act. And if I paid for them to be there, how dare they act any other way. Yeah, he's paid them for a service and that service is being his wrestlers being his guys. I'm calling him Golden Eagle. Yeah. But before we ship, I want to hear Golden Eagle one last time. That's Golden Eagle.

That volatility, unfortunately, finally came to a head on January 26, 1996 when John DuPont

shot and killed Dave Schulz. Now, the wrestlers at Fox Catcher Farms were not so coincidentally throwing a party for Valentin Jordan Obs birthday the night before the murder. And that party had lasted well into the morning. And we have absolutely no idea what set John off or what might have been said at that party. But something happened. As when the sun rose the next day, John DuPont asked a security guy, a man named Pat Goudale, to take a ride with John around the

estate. I have one theory. What happened? So it came up in the 30 for 30. I was watching just before and they positive the theory that was interesting, which is that Dave Schulz, the night of the party, drunkenly, what they used to do, one of the fun things they used to do, shoot off fireworks, shoot off all these things. And apparently, so this is at the height of John saying there's not these spies everywhere with spies, all these people are doing and he's been interrogating

people one by one who's a spy. Apparently, he saw Dave finally shooting out of eight, what they called these like bazooka things when a bottle rockets in it and he was shooting at at DuPont's house and laughing. And John DuPont went to his head of security that night and says, "I know who the spy is. We're going to handle the tomorrow." That seems pretty cut and dry. But that is the version of the story. So I've know that you have no idea what's real about

“that. And I'm not saying that you should put bottle rockets in PVC pipes, but it is a lot of things.”

A lot of fun just make sure you put the cap on the end. But this is what private property is for. It really is. It really is. You can use the same PVC pipe to build your potato gun,

which is also an incredible amount of fun to build. So I need some PVC pipe, a little bit of

a hairspray in a match, and it's like potatoes. Oh my God. I got so much fun. It's fun to break rules. Well, the security expert that John went and talked to that night. His name's Pat Kudale.

whatever John asked him to do, no matter how weird it was. Pat was the guy who x-rayed the columns. Pat was the guy who dug up the property, looking for these hidden tunnels that John swore

“over there. It's just fucking job. Well, that's what Pat says. He maintains that he only did this”

in an effort to show John that there's nothing to worry about. He thought that if he did it enough and showed him enough evidence, like look, there's no listening devices, there's no spies that eventually John would drop it. Pat's not really a mental health expert. No, he has no idea. But I will say they do say every see many emails about this over the years about you are actually someone is like they say this is where dementia patients, where you should

help. You should actually say yes and. Yeah, you go on, especially in Alzheimer's as well. Yeah, it helps. But schizophrenia is a different, it's different animal together.

Yeah, you always add to me, I always yes and that it's yes and where's the dragon.

Yes and your blood is butter. Let's cut it out of you, put it on bread. Yes and where are your pills? Where are the pills? Yeah, any parent listener will tell you how many times it did something

“completely wrong, knowing they were doing it wrong, only should they show their child.”

This is what happens when you do it wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Now, John's everyday gun was a 38 special. Nice. Solid everyday gun. Yeah. But on the morning of January 26, he grabbed his long barreled 44 magnum revolver before heading out into the estate with security guy Pat Goudale. After surveying the grounds and his Lincoln Continental, John drove to Dave Schultz's house on the property. Of course, the place where Dave lived with his wife in two kits, luckily the kids

were already at school. But Dave was outside trying to fix his car radio. His wife was in the kitchen. John pulled up to Dave, open the door and said, hi coach. John then got halfway out of his car. Was it didn't even fully get out, pulled us 44 in shot Dave Schultz. Now, Dave's wife was inside the house and said, she didn't think anything of the gun shot. Because Dave sometimes liked to shoot small game like squirrels with a 22 rifle. Also,

they were shooting guns all the time. Yes. But when she heard a second shot and a scream,

she went outside. There, she saw her husband lying face down on the ground next to his car while John DuPont was still halfway out of his Lincoln Continental. She then watched as John DuPont put a third and final bullet into Dave Schultz for reasons that are still unclear. At least fully unclear. It does seem like it was a paranoid delusion that got out of the hand. Now that you say that, it seems that he was crawling and then he did a final shot. It was back.

Yeah. As far as what security expert Pat Goudale was doing this whole time because, hey, someone starts in a fire gun, think the security expert's going to know what to do. He testified at the trial that he got out of the car and pointed his own gun at John DuPont. But Pat told police right after the shooting that he was too stunned to really do anything and that the shooting happened too fast for him to react. Based off of that, based on where they found Pat later, seems like Pat

“just ran from the car and hid behind a metal barrel, which honestly, as long as John DuPont's”

not shooting the wife as well, smart move. You know, what else are you supposed to do? Honestly, if you're going to get shot, like it's not, he's not the secret service. The job is not to be the security guy. Yes. John meanwhile tossed the 44 magnum into his backseat and drove away while Dave's wife tried putting pressure on her husband's wounds. Unfortunately, though, the bullets had been hollowpoint and this very much speaks towards motive and also speaks towards

premeditation. Hollowpoint bullets expand upon impact. We all know that. They're chosen for the express purpose of killing a man. The only reason why you use hollow points. So Dave tragically died before the ambulance got there. While Dave was dying, John DuPont drove back to his

mansion and walked directly into a windowless steel line vault on the first floor that his mother

had installed as a bomb shelter. The dream man. This is the dream. This is the dream. This one houses the house I grew up in had a bomb shelter. It is not a safe room. Is it like a safe room? No, a bomb shelter. Like it's like it's a coldware air shed. My house I grew up in was built in the 50s and so there was an actual bomb shelter out back because I grew up in our away from Dias Air Force base, which was on one of the top targets for the Soviets during nuclear war

because that's where all the B-52 bombers were. So if there was a new, like I grew up knowing like if there's a nuclear war, I'm gonna die. I want a bomb shelter. I don't bomb shelters going to ground. Yeah, there's on the first floor. Probably very thick walls. Very thick walls. We're usually John used this vault as both his library and his cocaine layer. Wow, very snorted lines and met his dealer. Honestly, cocaine layer you have to have. Do you really

cocaine layers belong with books that you won't read definitely. It's not a naked girl. It's

but it's paired best with books that you take off the shelf, open, flip through, put back on.

“Yeah, no, no, no, no, that's not a secret? Nah, books. Not to putting the gun away on a high shelf.”

DuPont stepped out of the vault and told the three house staff members that were remaining in the house, you better not let the police inside because the police are definitely coming. Yes, that you will eat sacrifice yourself to be. And you're God, you'll feral and we will burn those places that you're out and I know that we will all join this other of the afterlife. What do we are done? Sure, John. Yeah, come. They did before long 75 police officers from

10 departments and 30 SWOT officers were outside John's mansion. They feel because he, because he's a Y. Yeah, he let the local police train on his gun range. They knew how many guns he had. But in the end, there was no shootout in John's future. No massive last stand. Instead, John just sat there and made phone calls to lawyers and wrestlers. Hey, there's this gold dust. I don't know. How am I gay? I figured I'd ask you. You can die, I vote.

Oh, I asked you to snake away. Check. Oh, is this big folly? Would your dude love do wish your cactus jacks? Do you ever think about that or is that they'd the same guy or they cousins? I should be calling dusty roads. Was specifically John called Valentin Nordenoff over and over leaving messages begging the Bulgarian to come visit him in his hour of need. But Valentin did not answer. And after the staff left one by one without incident, they just

talk kind of snuck out the door when he wasn't looking. I didn't repeat like, so I'm going to leave. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna go. John DuPont by 645pm was left all alone in his mansion. Now the police of course treated John DuPont with the utmost respect despite the fact that he had just killed a man and called blood in front of his wife. This was much to the criticism of the media who knew how much money John had given the local police department and definitely asked

them about the money every time there was a press conference. The standoff therefore lasted for days until the police finally shut off the mansions heater in the middle of a Pennsylvania winner. John, however, simply built a fire for himself using copies of a book he'd written and self-published

that if this was in a movie you'd say it was stupid, it was called Never Give Up.

You know what I got to say, Johnny? There's a lot of things out of us four, but that's a great

“title. Remember what St. Husky's book was called? Touched. Oh my God. Wow. Very serious. It's better”

than suck. Here's my new book, Boys Don't Cry. Boy, never cry. Before long, the cold got to be too much and when John asked the police to bring out a repairman for the age back and opening a merch. You will bring to be your finest yelp. And don't bring me anyone to ask to give me a subscription to be a part of their service. The police told John that it was too dangerous to bring a civilian into the situation. But John was more than welcome to exit the mansion and check

on the boiler himself. Just so long as he promised to not bring a gun. That's a great idea. An amazingly John did what he was asked and he exited the mansion unarmed, wearing a Bulgarian wrestling team sweatsuit with a team fox catcher T-shirt underneath. bizarrely, he's a love of landyards like you do. He slipped a lanyard from the 1995 World Wrestling Championships over his neck before going out. Guy can't be all wrong. I love land. You do the landyards. Like every

other person, like I always put mine in my pocket, you know, and like have it ready if someone needs

it. You're on over whatever nice thing you got. Don't like the landyards. That's like a landyard. I like a badge. You're doing me a door. I'm a police officer. They're many ways. They're many ways.

“I'm a cop. Yeah. I think it just comes from you remembering the moment and Wayne's world where”

they had the backstage passes and they're going to go everybody and so excited. Anything that you can show to somebody and they let you into a place where there's bad food and like little waters. Yeah. I got it. Within moments though, John decided to make a run for it. A SWAT officer stepped out from behind a tree and he told John to stop and John did freeze for a moment. He put his hands up, but he said it fucking. The SWAT officer, of course, chased John down,

DuPont air and put the cuffs around his wrists. Now John DuPont naturally tried an insanity defense for the murder of Dave Schultz. I was crazy for wrestling. I'd also cocaine. Okay. It was a battle for the insanity as well. Even though John was a reasonably well-capped man prior to the trial, he grew out his beard and gave himself a purposefully disheveled appearance in court to bolster the insanity defense. All these guys do this shit. Even Harvey Weinstein

brought out the walker and is just like, "Oh, John DuPont showed up in a wheelchair." Like they all do it. But after all the arguments were heard and the jury deliberated for a week, they came

back with a verdict of guilty, a third degree murder, but mentally ill. But you're crazy. Yeah.

You know that? All right, you're crazy. You know what? We just want to tell you that. That meant that while the jury believed that John did have paranoid schizophrenia, he had still fully understood that he was doing something wrong when he killed Dave Schultz. So John DuPont was sentenced to 13 to 36 years in prison, which was basically a life sentence, because John was nearly 60 when he was put in jail. Dave Schultz's wife soon after one

a wrongful death suit against John DuPont, and while we don't know the amount, it was reported to be the largest settlement ever paid to one person. Good. Yeah. Every once in a while, it's lucky when your husband gets shot. No? Jesus. Jesus fucking crazy. I know.

“You and your men are expendable. That's what I'm talking. John meanwhile spent three months”

in a state hospital before he was transferred to state prison, where he shared an eight foot cell with another roommate in a wing for older prisoners and child molesters. This guy's hilarious. You think you get put in with an older, another old guy or a child molester? I bet they pair them. I don't get one old guy, one child molester. I think they need to have, that's the balance. Yeah, cause it's the Batman and Robin nothing. You need to too. Yeah, because if you got two

child molesters in there, they're just going to talk shop all day. What's the age that you're like, all right, you 65 and with the kid fuckers. Look at your legs and your knees and something like, he's got this tensile strength of a child molester and we give him a little worker. Well, it was with the old men and the child molesters that the DuPont air died in 2010 at the age of 72. Making John DuPont, as far as I know, the only DuPont to truly pay for the crimes he committed.

He was embarrassingly buried in a red team fox catcher wrestling singlet. And the remainder of his estate was left to who else, but his favorite Bulgarian wrestler, Valentin, you're not.

How American. Yeah, multi-billion and breaking off a piece to the Russians.

Valentin, David, the interviews he gave during the documentaries were the house was quite nice. Quite quite nice. Now, why do I feel like the grossest thing of all is that he was buried

“in a wrestling singlet. I think it is the grossest thing that happened.”

Thank you, something about that because they're like, even just it's an old man, you're going to go to open casket, you're going to see his bulge in this thing. Now, you don't see the lower half in an open casket. Now, for my grandmother, we open the whole fucking thing. So, that fucking bitch, come off her dress.

And that is the tale of a DuPont. We have done it in three episodes, the crimes of DuPont, and the crimes of one single DuPont. Thank you very much for coming along on this journey with us. Been a lot of fun in the midst of the Epstein files. This has been very fun, but it was actually very edifying. Once that Epstein files came out and we, you know, read all this stuff, it a lot of stuff in Epstein started making sense. And so, like I said, at the beginning of this whole

thing, like if you really want to understand how we got to this point, people like the DuPont,

“you have to understand how this world works and what these people do. You have to understand how”

people like John DuPont work. You know, like, these systems are set up for these people to behave in this manner. And we did this, when we did this specifically in this way, as we said last episode, because of where we are in the country and how we personally feel as creators. So, this is this mental a lot to us as a series. But next week, it's going to get a little bit less important. I'm coming back to me. I'm going to be doing a thing. Yeah, true crime. Yeah,

Henry's first true crime. Yes, it's going to get real fucking gross and excited for it. Yeah.

I've watched a part of a documentary about it. And I didn't do a care for it. Yeah, we're going to back to the fucking sloppy bloods next week. Yeah, fucking animals. Yeah. And we've

Very soon. And then after that, I'm going to return to the Mount Rushmore of Eva.

We got a lot of cool shit coming up. It's coming. But we got to get to the airport. Yeah. So, thank you for your money. Go to patreon.com slash slash podcast and the left and give that money. You can get ad free episodes. You can also see last stream on the left live 6 p.m. ps t each week. We might be changing to five. Yeah, but I think we should change it to five starting next week. I thought we said we were doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it. It's five. Yeah. It's five. Yeah. It's five. Yeah. It's five. Yeah. It's five. Yeah. It's six. It's been made. It's for us. Daddy needs to eat dinner.

“Really nice to not be angry during the episodes. That's what we're going to do. So, that's done. Also, you're going to go over an”

LP on the left for all the super social media. Don't know why. And you're in YouTube channels. Some place underneath.

LP and romance. See no dogs and space. LP and TV. The foreign report. Who's to be all on YouTube? Go check that fucking shit out. We'll be back next week. Good work Marcus. Thank you. Great work to both of you as well. Thank you for coming along with me on this journey. Hell yeah. Next week we're going to be an Indianapolis at the Egyptian room. Come check us out. And then the very next night on March 14th. Henry and I are going to be in a banner Illinois. Can't wait. We're going to have a lot of fun there. And then after that,

we got Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Grand Rapids, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, a bunch of side story shows. Go to the last podcast in the left dot com to find out where we're coming to see you. And Eddie, I got to take you to the slippery noodle. You're, you're disgusted. Dude, you don't take a mislippery noodle. He's got to take him to the slippery noodle. He's got to see it. He just caused the music performances alone. Yeah, the last time we went when it was at weird 70-year-old man with just the fan on him. So it was Herod

“blowback. Yeah. Do you remember that? And up in the Jasper, but that's also another one. No, I wasn't,”

I don't remember that because I was in, I was stuck in the hotel room dying of long COVID. Yeah, you almost died. Yeah, and that wasn't anapolis. Yeah, Indianapolis. Yeah, that's when the doctor came to see me at the hotel room to do a house call. And she told the, told me that even though her husband died of COVID, she still did not believe in COVID, and then she just handed me a whole lot of steroids, which a doctor back in New York told me was not the right thing to do. It almost killed him.

Yeah. Yeah. And I always remember that because, yeah, it was a rough time. Yeah. And then we also

met a weird woman. Very strange. I watched a nurse cheating her husband. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I love the slippery noodle. I've been to Indianapolis. I had a good time. There's a, I watched some ghost hunters and ate a bunch of sausages. We're going to grow no, we're going to go see some bad jazz, so we're going to have someone flashes their penis in the misery. As long as I can get sausages and stare at murals of Kurt Vonnegut, I'll be okay. Yeah. Now definitely, if anybody at

the Kurt Vonnegut, you know, if anybody can give us some like Kurt Vonnegut's my dude, you know, he has been forever. So if anybody can give us like an inside track, some Kurt Vonnegut stuff in Indianapolis. Side stories, LPO, [email protected]. Uh, get a hold of us. We'd love to see it. Please. And thank you. Whoa. Hell's sake. Okay. Hell Dave Schultz. Yeah. Well, yeah. Seriously, like Dave was, uh, he's what you want from an American

“athlete. He's a true American athlete. He's a true American hero. Yeah. It's sad. What happened to him?”

It is. Bye.