Episode 671: Gary Ridgway : Redux Part I - Wrong Way Gary

Let's run a cannon for some started.

Alright, we go.

“We've got to get in the Gary Ridgeway headspace.”

I put a plastic bag over my head for a while this morning. And again, I lost some of those extra pesky brain cells. Yeah, I was just trying to get good guy in the game. They can kill a bitch. I'm just like, that's the way to get in the Gary Ridgeway.

They can kill the bitch and kill the bitch. This is because that's his one of his favorites. Yeah, saying suit this. Oh, yes, cat phrase. Yeah, yeah.

I didn't want to get too crazy and violent with it. So I just did a really bad job of painting a truck. Fucker last fuck as I'm off. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with method actor Henry's Nebraska.

I'm going to ask him. I'm going to go.

Because he reminds me a little bit of a...

What's his name? From South Park. Oh, Tammy. No, not Tammy. Jimmy.

Jimmy. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I think those little eyes, too.

He's got those little, blanky little rat eyes. The beatiest eyes and serial killer. He has that. He has the Arthur Shaw Cross tell where when they're saying, when they're talking about things that particularly make them horny.

They get real blanky. Yeah. That's indeed. And we have the man who doesn't get blanky at all when he gets horny as far as I know. It's at Larson.

“Yeah, I don't think I think I just shut him and go to sleep.”

Thank you. See, my eyes are wide open. It's one long blank. I want to see. Today we have a redo.

We have a second pass. It's yet another look at a serial killer that we covered. Long ago today we started our journey on Gary Ridgeway. I've brought this up before and I once did one of those like horrible tests like which serial killer are you and I got green river killer. You know what I can see it.

Oh, we okay. Yeah, you're blue collar. Yeah. What is that? I get a kick.

I get a kick. She's bitch. I get a kick. I get a kick. I like the ones.

Yeah. He does. He does. He does. Amongst many other things.

He does love the wood.

“I was just in retin, which is next to C C tax.”

Oh, yeah. I was just there and we had a nice place on the right on the right on the lake Washington there and I walk through the woods and it's nice. You can see why it would get you horny. It's real quiet and private too, right? Oh, absolutely.

I was smoking all kinds of weed. Oh, that's great. But the reason why we're doing this redox is because, you know, when we did this. We did this series back in the day. We had kind of like, it was, we're still in the research figuring out what we're doing.

Well, very, I mean, this is back when it's like, at that point, I was still on like six podcasts a week. Yeah. And also editing all of them and producing all of them.

So like I was basically like looking at Wikipedia pages and like checking out like a couple of like murder pedi pages and trying to put shit together.

Not sleeping much, working like 90 hours a week. It was insane. So it was a, let's say, a bad job. That was fun to do. But at the same time, we did not, because normally it's like the opposite.

Normally when we do the old episodes, we got into the really graphic shit and we didn't get to all the other like context. And so where this time it's so wonderful to know that when we got back into it, the information's actually way more fucked up than we even ever thought in the beginning. And that's great for us. Yeah. No.

He, from my, I watched the documentary on HBO Max yesterday and I obviously read the script of prep today. He seems like he might be the worst. No, no, no, he just could probably be the best enough. He's up there. Like, he's, he's definitely as far as a body count goes.

He's one of the most prolific in American history. Samuel Little beat him though. Yeah. By a lot. So he is, but he is definitely in that area of like amongst the worst.

And you know how I described him? He does it the Kirby Puckett style. He's simple. Yeah. You know what I mean?

He's the hunter. That's what this is all about. This is a moving guy's around basis. A moving sex workers to various challenges. There's an RBI guy, not a home run.

Exactly. So as we said, many years ago, we attempted an episode on Gary Ridgeway. And while we did the best we could with the resources we had at the time, we realized after looking at this story again, we didn't really capture the full picture, especially

of Gary Ridgeway. Last time, we described Gary Ridgeway as a man who was really only good at one thing. He was a dollar, but he also managed to evade police for decades as one of the most prolific serial killers in American history despite the efforts of a massive task force. In fact, before the advent of DNA testing, the so-called green river killer case, as Gary Ridgeway's

murders are known, was shaping up to be yet another unsolved serial killer mystery, like the Zodiac or Jack the Ripper. But the biggest difference between those cases in green river is the sheer volume of victims. While Jack and the Zodiac only got five each, Gary Ridgeway murdered at least 45 women between 1982 and 1984 alone, two fucking years.

And that doesn't even count the women he murdered afterward, and the women he possibly murdered before. And we've talked about this before with these types of serial killers.

There's always the ones in which they killed way less than they said that they did.

And they're doing it for attention. And then there's the ones that might have killed way more. And Gary Ridgeway is firmly in the camp of might have killed way more, because he even he said, I don't remember. I don't remember.

I kind of go in there different direction of my mind. And then he just starts thinking about it in a way where he goes off into a fantasy world, and he doesn't even remember. And then he said, I don't know whether that was a dream. Oh, that was a fantasy.

And he's just like, he was thinking about killing for so long.

“And he also doesn't remember what was the ones he actually did.”

And what we're just a walking fugue state fantasy, he was in.

You know what's interesting is like, sometimes like, I bit when I was younger.

But when I was younger, I remember I used to get in a lot of fights. And I remember one fight, my biggest fight, I don't remember it. Yeah, like I want until like a fugue state. And so like, it kind of makes sense. I feel like violence, extreme violence can bring on.

Just you not know what's going on. It's not violence. It's anger. Because I bet that during that fight, you were probably the angriest you have ever been in your entire life.

I guess, I don't even remember. I was perfectly fine afterwards. And it's the power of man.

So Gary Ridgeway would pick up sex workers from the areas around the C tech international

airport and the interstate five corridor pretend is if it was going to be a normal transaction then he would strangle women to death before dumping the bodies and isolated wooded areas around the Seattle Tacoma region. Gary was able to do this dozens of times because the area in which Gary obtained disposed of victims was almost tailor made for a serial killer.

Thanks God. I did that. God and man working together.

“Yeah, there's a reason I think bigfoot's in those fucking hills.”

Yeah. Well, during the year's Ridgeway was active, the corridor where you'd find C tech airport between Seattle and Tacoma was known as the strip. The strip was essentially a sex buffet of lost women, applying their trade on two lane highways and logging roads, which was all prior to C

tax incorporation as the city surrounded by wilderness. So, all Ridgeway had to do was find a place where he could murder someone out of sight and once the deed was done, he was spoiled for choice as to where he wanted to dump the body. Now, had Ridgeway buried his victims instead of just rolling them into ditches or leaving

them out in the open, the Pacific Northwest likely wouldn't have even known there was a serial killer on the loose because his victims were all sex workers whose disappearances likely wouldn't have been investigated. Well, they would have known there was a serial killer on the loose because as we'll get into in the next episode, there are about four to six serial killers operating at the same

times Gary Ridgeway in this area.

“I also truly think the key to Gary successes was simplicity.”

I think if we're adding, you didn't get off fancy with it. No, no, no, no, I think we're adding steps. Hold like trophies or anything like that. No, no, well, he did it and we're, he did bad horrific things, but he did it in the old fashioned way by letting it just sit out.

You know, like he was not digging holes. If he was digging holes, we might have actually creed a lot more evidence than you wanted to because he's a fucking moron. He might have been down. But actually looking at Ridgeway again, there really is so much more to

his story than just a guy with an IQ of 82, a grudge against women and a Bible to clutch whenever he needed justification for his actions. Because I was last time when we did it, like we were really hard on the missionary killer angle that, you know, he did it because he believed that the sex workers deserved it that he was getting them at that he was wiping the earth clean

of these sinful ladies. And it's a lot more complicated than that. That's way too simplistic. Oh, it's way more complicated than that because he is this push and pull with them. You even hear now now that I've watched chunks of the confessions can see it.

But also, they must be killed.

“They must have got to kill the bitches because he's like,”

he can't handle the fact that there's the only ones giving him any form of affection at the time. And then he got married three times. Three times. I wouldn't push back on him not getting any affection.

Oh, no.

Gary Ridgeway was never ever ever without a girlfriend or wife.

Ladies, love dairy. He was fine for a trailer park. You looked all right. What? You look fine.

He looked like a shop teacher. Yeah. Stories, LPOTL, the GMO.com. Please answer ready. I said fine.

Yeah. I'm saying the answer. Yeah. What we missed last time was it Ridgeway exhibited a wide range of zero killer behaviors that we saw in many of the most infamous mass murders of the late 20th century.

He somewhat attempted to be a kind of BTK or Zodiac by writing near unintelligible letters to the press and police. And he committed necrophilia multiple times throughout his most active period. In other words, he exhibited far more complicated behavior than what we had originally covered. Thank you. People did that.

People did that. People did what I do. Good topic. Did he? Did I see it?

“Earlier, you shortened Jack to record a Jack.”

Have I never heard anyone do that before?

Yeah. Oh, you know what? You know what? You know what? Me can call him saucy Jack.

Oh. But I think Zodiac killer. I will. Zodiac. It's Zodiac.

It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac.

It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac.

It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac.

It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac. It's Zodiac.

It's Zodiac.

But the question people always have about these guys is why they did what they did.

And while the easy answer is, if they do it because it makes them feel good, the real question is, how does a mind that gets pleasure from murder develop and why the fuck where there's so many of them during the 70s, 80s and 90s? Where do they all go? Well, now that we're decades past these crimes, and we can take a larger view of the 20th century.

I mean, the 20th century is 26 years ago at this point. Shut up. We might finally have an answer here, something far more definitive and provable beyond the sole theory that let a gasoline ruin the brains of the boomer generation. But it is going to take us three full episodes to explain it.

And now that we've got a whole team working on this weekly grind of ours, we can finally tell the story of the green river killer the way it was meant to be told. Through pants of mine. You can't hear it. You can't hear it.

It's hard to use the magic. It's not hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic.

It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic.

It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic.

It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic.

It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic.

It's hard to use the magic. It's hard to use the magic. It's noticed when people go missing a lot faster. Things like that. People do get caught earlier, but the kids don't run away anywhere.

They need to stay in their homes now. Kids don't have any function skills. So they don't go hang up on the train yards anymore. Now they're all just playing video games. It missed the days when kids ran away.

Now the scary place to please them is on Roblox. The other thing is that the 70s, 80s and 90s, the one-on-one crime, like just general all around crime, that is way, way down. They're still just as many lost people around that you can prey on today as there were back then. In fact, they're more.

They're far more people in this country now than there were back then. But there are reasons why things have calmed down so much. Why crime is that it's lowest point ever. Also, I feel like back in the day, you would get into a fistfight, a cop and catch you. But all right, boys, break it up, go home, walk it off.

Now you're like, everyone just goes to jail. We'll also back in the day, not the children weren't armed.

“And I think they used to just fight each other.”

And then they wouldn't go back and get guns and then come back and finish the jobs.

No. Maybe so, maybe now. Mostly. We'll see. We'll see.

“But that's what they were going to get more into that in the coming episodes.”

But before we get to the story of Gary Ridgeway, let's acknowledge our sources.

First, we've got the classic Green River running red by Anne Ruel.

It is thick. 800 pages. That's a big one. Yeah. Anne Rolls.

She's the same one who wrote the definitive book on Ted Bondi. Famous true crime author. Then we've got the source for the juicy stuff, which was found in Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer by James Richmond. And finally, we got the new kid on the block. Murderland by Caroline Frazier.

This book was released just last year. And for me, it really is the final word on why and how the 70's 80's and 90's will forever be known. And the annals of true crime history is the era of the serial killer. And so, without further ado, let's get in the story of Gary Ridgeway, aka the Green River Killer. Peepaids, Gary.

Peepaids, Gary. It's a Gary Leon Ridgeway. Cool name. Yeah. Gary Leon.

Yeah. And he was born in February, 1949 in Salt Lake City, to Mary Rita and Thomas Ridgeway. These two people hold the distinction of being one of those rare double shots of horrible serial killer parents. Because both of them absolutely contributed to the horrific mindset that enabled Gary to do what he eventually did. Usually it's just one.

But this time, boom, two barrels.

“And that's how we get the number one killer in America next to Samuel Little who, you know, again, I feel like he didn't count enough because he didn't really.”

We wasn't proud. Gary was proud. Yeah. Now, Gary grew up as the middle child and a struggling family that grew their own food and searched junkyards for useful scrap that could be fixed up and sold. It was a family trait that Gary would carry throughout the rest of his life as a free man.

It was a practice he called Fandon Chesues. It's good. But he because Giddled is new stuff. It's crazy. It's going to be a rescue compete, good, good, good, great.

Terragity. You're like, does he do this? Are there scrap families? Scrap out absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. They're very popular still to this day. Yeah. My family was, we were like, firmly middle class. We still love going into the dump.

It's great. Wow. You know, they still cut the copper wiring. You know, it's got a lot of copper wiring. But data centers.

Let's go. Oh, no, no, no, no, run. I guess they had it. So after a short lived and failed attempt at running a bar together, Mary Rita Ridgeway settled temporarily into the role of a housewife while Gary's father Thomas worked construction

and a few stents as a truck driver. One job had late hours while the other required Thomas to be gone for days at a time. Once when Mary Rita was home alone, Gary's little brother Eddie got sick. The Ridgeways had no money. So Mary Rita took little Eddie out into the snow bank to bring his fever down.

The kid did survive. But little Eddie came away with permanent brain damage, only to Mary Rita's attempts at a folk remedy. Like he was Conan's sword. He's just held him by his ankles and bit him into the snow.

The tang holds. Little Eddie, however, was not the only person with developmental problems in the family.

But Gary Ridgeway himself was always described as slow.

Besides being dyslexic, it took him a long time to memorize anything. And when he did, his recall was still full of gaps.

“Gary couldn't remember the names of his own pets.”

Couldn't remember the names of his fellow children. He'd give you socks. Scraps. Dusty. The spooker spooker spooker spooker spooker.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here.

You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. You can't get out of here. He's like, uh, in that first X-Men movie with a guy who had the Senator turns into water like that.

But Gary also had severe allergies and a constant runny nose, which he always wiped

His eyes would swell and tears would constantly run down his face, which earned him the nickname Crybaby amongst his fellow children. That, of course, was in addition to the bullying he got just for being slow.

By the age of eight, Gary remembered being always sad, always angry because there was just

so many things wrong with the little things, but they added up. Out of the three Ridgeway boys, Gary had two brothers. Gary became the primary target for his parents, anger and punishment. It's like the Goldilocks scenario. Yeah, yeah.

But for punishing your child, Gary's younger brother Eddie, he had the brain damage. So he got pity from Gary's mother, and her own guilt about the fever, often got little bloody, a pass. But Gary's older brother Greg was intelligent in handsome. So his parents were constantly asking, "Why can't you be more like your brother Greg, Gary?" Why can you be more like Greg?

I suppose he'll tell every day, but every day we said, "Good, good, good." And I didn't think, kind of nice if you could maybe put my head on my head on my head, I should a little bit, maybe do some DNA, maybe cut a big knee, still man, like a knee, maybe because he's gonna eat the DNA, everybody likes it. Oh, there's a Greg Ridgeway who's a professor of criminology, it's not the same guy, but if I'm interested, it's interesting.

Wow. Like a guy who runs a hammer, a joint name, Burger. Hey, my name's Mr. Cheeseburger. Alright, that's a whole name. This is my wife, Buns.

“But I think matters even worse, Gary's family moved frequently, so Gary never had time”

to make friends, wherever the Ridgeway family went, the bullies found Gary. But Gary had no refuge at home either. His father would actually get angry at Gary instead of the bullies, every time Gary got the shit beat out of him. Now because he was slow and because the family moved around so much, Gary got held back

a grade in elementary school, and it wasn't the last time that this would happen to Gary. But when Gary learned that he was gonna have to repeat a grade, something snapped, because the kids had nothing, but hatred for him and his parents had nothing but disappointment. In fact, Mary Rita came to believe that Gary was just lying about not being able to read. I wish I'd honestly be, this would be truly be the funniest breakable thing, but it's not,

you know, I can't read. And so, Gary's legendary anger, the anger that would be unleashed upon the Pacific Northwest in the 1980s, began to manifest itself physically. After learning that he was gonna be held back, Gary walked to his school and smashed out several windows by throwing rocks.

Can't me, I'm a good guy, I can't go beg the eighth grade, I'm going through a rock pile of rocks here, throw these rocks in there. It was like second grade, second, third grade, it's around there, and I went to a school where our classes were between 10 and 15 kids, really small, and at the start of every

school year, it was always the kids who got held back, because every year you'd get a kid

added to your class and you'd lose a kid, and those were always the bullets, they were always the angriest kids. There were also older and bigger than everybody, far older, far bigger, oh yeah, the kid who broke

“my collarbone, he was the one who spiked me, he'd been held back twice, I think, by”

that point. I made him very strong, he was very strong, very incredibly strong, I think he's dead now. Yeah, there was a guy who straight up like shot someone in the head and his front yard, and he was like 20, my eyes on him, yeah, he's just like, he's smoking with the security

on the ground, he's like, "Buy from your grave." Now around the same time the Gary was being held back, Gary also started experimenting with fire, and second grade he started playing with matches, and eventually set his own garage ablaze. He became terrified and ran away while a neighbor called 911, and even though he assumes

his parents beat him for starting the fire, he said he doesn't remember, his experimentation with fire didn't stop, he just learned to do it elsewhere so we wouldn't get caught.

So starting in the second grade, Gary started setting fires and garages around his neighborhood

before running away when he heard sirens to hide until it got dark enough to safely sneak back home. It's fucking crazy, no, there's this demented second grader, seven year old, run around your neighborhood, any open garage, run an inside, set it on fire.

“Yeah, dude, I feel like that's how you gobblin' loose, and that's why, but I think you”

have full immunity to clunk a little child in the head that's doing that. If you're setting things on fire and setting structures on fire, I think you can get one clunk from a stick, has that tried? I know. You know what I'd say?

I wouldn't say a clunk in the head because that can cause permanent damage, kick him in the stomach. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can tie him up throw him in the swimming pool. Yeah, that'd be fun to say.

and the arts.

“Besides that, Gary also had a streak of animal cruelty.”

He got older.

He found that he enjoyed hurting things, starting with the birds that he would shoot with

his BB gun. Gary found that when the birds hit the ground dead, it made him laugh. Another time in a moment of frustration, Gary took one of his own pet cats, and suffocated it by throwing it in the cooler and shutting the lid. And so, that brings us back to the infamous McDonald triad, which, for years, was used

to identify serial killers. So, it was widely believed, specifically after true crime got so popular in the 2010s that if someone wet the bed beyond the age of five, started fires and engaged in animal cruelty as a child, it was a good indicator that they would become a serial killer as an adult.

“But while the McDonald triad has since been discredited or at least criticized, I got curious”

about the triads origins when it all came back with Gary Ridgeway, and I got curious as to why people no longer use it as an indicator that someone might be a serial killer. "It's because lots of people do it and it's not that uncommon. It's really not." "I mean, I'm glad it's not that common, but it's not uncommon enough that it's just

high serial killer." "No, but you're a boy, fires cool, stepping on a lizard's cool." "You get over it pretty fast, I know that anytime I was curious about doing something weird to an animal and stuff like the second, anything felt like bad." I was like, "Uh, you know, my brain would be like, "No, I wasn't into it."

"Yeah."

"Well, I always saw that as a, once you made the jump from, like, cold blood at the

warm blood, that's when you, like, really, that's when the evil really started."

“"That's what that's actually, that is the line."”

"Yeah, it's actually not. I never crossed that line myself, but, yeah, frogs beware." "I mean, frogs are different. A frog is different than a corgi. It's a big difference." "Well, the McDonald triad came from a six page paper called Threat to Kill by a forensic psychiatrist named John McDonald, published in 1963. McDonald was studying violent psychiatric patients and noticed that bedwedding beyond the age of five, compulsive fire starting

an animal cruelty appeared in many of the children on these psychiatric wards. McDonald, however, never explicitly said that his triad of bedwedding fire starting an animal cruelty in children led them to become serial killers as adults. It actually didn't even lead them necessarily to become violent as adults. In fact, McDonald only used a sample of 100 patients, and none of the people he studied for the paper had actually committed violence. They'd only threatened

hence his title, Threat to Kill. But the pioneers of behavioral science, the FBI, Prof. Robert Ressler and Burgess and John Douglas, whose story was loosely adapted for the Netflix show Mine Hunter, they combined Threat to Kill with a book McDonald had written in 1960 called The Murderer and His Victims. They then ran with the so-called McDonald triad in a direction that even McDonald himself didn't expect. All in an attempt to try and solve

the why of serial killers. When serial killers began to be a well, the research

technology, the main issue is, as always, we see, is that they want a structural fix

that works every time. So they'll give you money, right? Because even the guys in within these, like the FBI and all the stuff, they have to like pitch their own inner projects up the channel. So it's like stuff like this, they put together this like McDonald triad like fix all, like look, this is how we'll find serial killers will stop on them. It was just it was a part of a, you know, a massive thing. And then everybody jumped on it because like, oh, good, then we can fix serial

killers. And it's like, oh, well, it's all on a second. Yeah. After the McDonald triad was introduced into the cultural zeitgeist by the FBI, behavioral science unit, it became almost a comfort to a lot of laypeople. It was a path towards maybe explaining the act of serial killing, which to most people is something that seems utterly unexplainable. But in 2018, authors Charlotte Parfit and Emma Alien, they looked at the McDonald triad with fresh eyes and found that

while the triad is not necessarily a predictor for future serial killing or even violent behavior, it is most definitely a sign of childhood abuse. And as we know, while not all serial killers have childhood abuse, the vast majority do have absolutely horrendous childhoods. So we can forgive the BSU for jumping the gun a bit on the McDonald triad. This revelation was actually a fucking, it was a great relief to me personally because I absolutely hit every single point of the McDonald

triad as a child. I went the bed beyond the age of five. I can't admit it now. There's a 43 year old man. I was absolutely obsessed with fire. And although I'm not proud of it, I doubled in animal cruelty with various local amphibians, in very cruel and increasingly bizarre ways.

Yeah, but it's good that they disturb you. Me too. You know, I, you know,

“tie a lizard or a ballerocket. You know, I used, you know, I was just like that. You know,”

this boy is having fun. See, I was always with girls. Yeah. Never did that. We played animals.

Yeah. But we'd act like different animals. Yeah. That's fun. I did that game. But we always had a pool. I was always a dolphin and I lost. Wow. You know, I didn't wet the bed as much, but like I slipped walked and peed in cabinets. Yeah. Wow. That's cool. I slept off a ton, too. Yeah. Yeah. I had none of these. Really. Yeah. Good boy. You're such a boy. I was. I was, but I didn't sleep until I was like eight.

Yeah. And there's no extra lizards and fucking queens. Yeah. No, no. That was an land that wasn't surrounded by nature. But it turns out the MacDonald triad is not an indicator that we had the seed of a serial killer or the seed of a violent person laying dormant somewhere inside of us. It is, however, an indicator that my personal childhood environment created conditions where I have to do a shitload of therapy to untangle all the shit that happened to me.

And around me, when I was a kid, if I ever want to live a happy and healthy life, it was in my fault that I was raised in a West Texas nightmare factory, seemingly designed to traumatize people like myself. But it is my responsibility to deal with that shit. So it doesn't continue to fuck up my life. Gary Ridgeway, Needless to say,

never dealt with anything. And the anger he felt as a result of his childhood traumas,

which are about to get a lot worse. It was so intense that it contributed to the violent deaths of dozens of people. And of course, the childhood trauma is only one of many factors that led to the creation of Gary Ridgeway. Also think it's Gary's attitude. I think Gary Ridgeway has a bad attitude. I think he needs a, uh, people come here for intense hot takes. They really do. I mean, how do I fuck it? I hope Netflix keeps us after that one.

I thought he's a real jerk. Okay, Norm. Now, Gary was 11 years old. His family finally moved to the Seattle Tacoma area where Gary would live until he was finally arrested decades later. The Pacific Northwest is also where Gary Ridgeway's behavior would greatly escalate in a number of ways for reasons that we will discuss in depth, on episode two. So Gary's dad got a job driving metro buses in the Seattle area. While his mother got a part-time gig as a salesperson

“at a local JC Penny. That's what my mom did. Really? You worked at JC Penny's. Really?”

Penny's. Yeah. Are you lying about anything in your childhood about the things that you did or didn't do? No. Mom didn't wash me till I was a wreck. That was Dad's job. That's been a lot of time in JC Penny's, but it was just my mom. Yeah, that was the card. The place that we give her credit card. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, but that's it. We all of our all of our families did credit card fraud at JC Penny's. Yeah. That's also where the took a master was.

Oh, that's nice. Oh, wait, line. So the family bought their first house in an area that is now

known as the City of C-Tac. But with yet another move, Gary's bed wedding returned with vengeance. Yeah. Starting when Gary was around the age of 12, Mary Rita Ridgeway began and really yanking him from bed when he would wake up and announce that he had wet himself. She drag him to the bathroom and throw him into a tub of ice cold water, screaming the quote, "Oh, baby's wet the baby. I'll be babies. Are you a baby, Gary?" I direct the quote.

I can do it. I can do it by the way. I can do it by the way. I went the bed. Okay. Are you coming to like be a 12-minute? Hey. Just do you know? With the bed? Oh, my god. My bed's all wet, Mom. Well, this would be yelled repeatedly while Mary Rita dragged Gary through the house, which, of course, woke everyone up and it was meant to add to Gary's humiliation. This would happen at least three times a week during this time period. Sometimes it would happen

every single night. And this happened up until Gary was about 15 or 16 years old. It was from 12 to 15 or 16 years of this. Let's just say I don't know if it was just about the pee pee mucus. Well, we're going to get into that right now. I don't know if it was. And that's

“the problem is that sometimes mommy's can be a little naughty too. And that's what you got to be careful of.”

Because sometimes mommy's if you're too naughty, you make the baby naughty. Hope all of our mothers are really paid attention on. Just know that, right? No, you naughty. It's a good advice. And naughty mommy makes naughty baby. Yeah. Write that down. When can that makes angry daddy? Yeah. No, because the return to bed wedding coincided with

often leave for Bathrobe open, especially when she was dragging Gary to the bathtub in the middle of

“the night. And Gary would become aroused at the side of his mother's big hooters. Because you know,”

mom's always think, but you always love when my mom slept in the nude. You know, fucking awesome.

That was when your mom got done with the penny. She had done half of pennies, kicked off those heels, stripped down to her bush and just fucking relax. It's crazy. I grew up in South Florida. One of the hottest places in the world. And I don't think my mom could have worn more clothes. My mom was so cheap. She was so cold. Thank Christ. Once Mary Rita got Gary to the bath, she would furiously scrub his genitals until they were raw.

Baby's penis is covered in urine. Baby's penis needs to be cleaned by mommy. That's crazy. We got all these clothes. Yeah.

How's it, Dr. Korkort? She would overly focus on cleaning his privates while barely dressed herself.

“Baby, I think you'd be super, really tough. Then she'd vigorously dry him off when he was finished.”

Well, Gary remembered many interaction during this whole process. Gary in fact, so that his so-called sexual awakening came while his mother was scrubbing his junk with a grimace on her face. I hate how covered in piss and shit you are. The pig, you got that from your mother. Yes, I did keep breaking all the pig. My mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom. My old Henry's mom. She treated like a bad dog. Yeah. And later, Gary said that he was both

angered and incredibly horny. Every time his mother scrubbed the urine from his genitals, which of course

used anger, hatred, and sex in Gary's developed in mind. And keep in mind that this is not something

to happen once twice, five times, ten times, three times a week for years, if not every night for years. Can I ask you both, let's say you were fathers, and you were like, let's say, look, put yourselves in this kind of scenario. Mr. Ridgewood? Yes, Mr. Ridgewood. Yes. And you, like, noticed every single time, you know, they're bringing them in there. They're washing all the people you

“office of this penis and he's getting super hard, right? And the boy keeps getting older, right?”

At some point, when you get hard, like, do you think that, like, there's no, like, putting some breaks on the process here? You're assuming that the father ever got out of bed. Thomas, like, that was the thing. He had Thomas Ridgeway would just stay in bed. It's not like he would come in and supervise. But what if you saw your son getting hard, every time his mom was while your teenage son, every time she washed his genitals, right, covered in urine, he got

horrors from conversation he's going to be had. Well, yeah, would you be like, this should probably, I think we should let his coach do this. Like, maybe he's a teacher's job. Did she be doing this at school? Yeah. I just think he was not present, you know, it's been just hammered and smoking cigarettes in the other room, and now you're given a fuck about his family. He didn't real that. If he was also, he was terrified of Mary Reid up,

like Mary Reid, it was an incredibly domineering woman. But don't worry. I mean, he's, his contributions to Gary Ridgeway's pathology is going to be coming up soon. It's because Mary Reid has got those big old stinky bags. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's a big old stinky for that. How I wish I was baby Gary. Is this the area where the Ridgeway family had moved to? It was not yet a city. Their home was surrounded by woods where the Ridgeway boys would

explore and play. Gary therefore became very familiar with the forests of the Pacific Northwest, and that familiarity would later be used to find all the right spots to hide bodies. Partly though, Gary was going out into the woods to avoid the constant complex between his parents. Mary Reidah had become more dominant over the years, ordering Thomas to beat their children when she thought they deserved it. Gary therefore began to view his

father as weak and soft while women in general became monsters. Mary Reidah also got far more serious about religion. The Ridgeway boys were brought to Mary Reidah's Catholic Church every Sunday, but their father was barred from coming because the local priest had a problem with the divorce Thomas had before his marriage to Mary Reidah. This of course caused even more riffs. "Let's go, Gary. We're going to church where your father's not alive. Let's go, Gary. Oh, you got

you in all of them. Let me really watch them. Let's go. Your father's not alive at God's house. Let's go, Gary." "Your impression is scary, Marcus. Oh, let me pack my tips. We're going to pack my

stinky flapping bags." Even though Mary Reidah was obviously noticing her son's bath time boaters. "Did I see you and JC Penny now, yet again?" Sexual pleasure was something that was discussed with Skorn in the Ridgeway home. Mary Reidah herself taught her boys that masturbation was one of the worst sins of all that she actually told them that it was better to rape a woman than it was to masturbate. "This is so much changes. This is what Gary was being told right as the interpurity.

And the shit that Gary was hearing from his mother resulted in a myriad of abnormal sexual habits. He became a neighborhood windowkeeper, spying on girls in his neighborhood before being chased off by a parade of angry fathers. In one instance, Gary believed when an older girl came over to his house with friends to watch TV, that all he had to do to have sex with her was to surp Titiously put his erection in her field of vision by pulling his shorts to the side and showing off

his erect penis." "This seems that the the the the the elevator had to reach his floor. I think no. Oh yeah, I actually just watched a body cam where a guy would hang out at a gas station with his penis in a penis pump. And he'd like get it all in gorge. You know, one of the window and he would do this thing where a woman would go by. He'd go, excuse me, this. May I interest you in this? "Oh, awful. I hate when they're nice." "Yeah, it's like almost first."

"Yeah." "Great coupon and commercial?" "Yeah." "Well supposedly Gary watched TV with this neighbor and a whole group of his older brothers friends and he tried this bizarre little game over and over again

for months. The girl never once reacted. "Great." "At the very least never acknowledged it.

She did the right thing." "Well, she should just sort of stop going over there." "Yeah, sure. She's plugged him in the fucking mouth." "Yeah." "And then I should have some of those boys." "Yeah." "Well,

“you know what I mean?" "But I think no one noticed." "That's what he said." "He said he always said no one”

noticed. No one said anything." "And I think if he was bullied as much as he was because this is like his older brothers friends." "Yeah." "And like I know neither y'all got older brothers. I got to older brothers. When your older brothers friends see anything to make fun of you for they go for it. They go for it. They go for it fucking hard. But what an ultimate example of what Gary sort of talking about, right? He can't even pull his dick out and get a reaction.

He's in this area of all these kids and he's going to say, "Hey, anybody see what Gary's doing? Everybody see what Gary's doing?" "And he's in the corner and there nobody, everybody's just got anything." "Nobody Cakes." "Nobody Cakes and Gary pulls his penis out." "And that's exactly how we got away with it for so long." "Yeah, that is." Now Gary was a loner both before and after puberty. And since he believed Master Basin was a

sin that was worse than rape, he got his jimmy's out by becoming a Frochur. "How do you actually,

“how do you, how do you, is Frochur?" "Frochur honestly, let's not put the French fucking”

spin. I never, I read the word before, but it's a lot of progress." "Frochur, you've got her." "Frochur,

I'm just a Frochur." "Frochur!" "Yeah, that's one of the, that's the terms where it's when you rub up or brush up against somebody for sexual pleasure." "Oh, yeah, of course the French thought of that." "But you know, it's like they do it on the train like it happens a lot in New York City. It's the thing of where you could just kind of like the guy just sort of let's the tip of his penis touch you." "Or it's also trying to rub up against a woman's breasts, you know, just like that."

"And you're always making it look like an accent." "Oh, sorry, very much doing it on purpose." "Walk around with the palms of their hands facing out and stuff like that." "Yeah, yeah, are you a Frochur?" "No, I got grabbed." "Okay, yeah." "Yeah, men have been throtted." "Yeah, I've been throtted." "I've been throtted myself a few times." "Yeah." "But it was also around this time that Gary found that killing living creatures made him feel better about his anger after suffocating the aforementioned cat at the age of 14

and throwing the corpse amongst the local roadkill, Gary found that killing something,

“killing anything that made him feel strong and important. Mugari was discovering this disturbing”

cork to his personality. His father took a second job at a mortuary and quite unwisely decided

to be open and honest with his son about everything he heard while working with the dead. Thomas Ridgeway would tell the teenage Gary stories about a co-worker who would commit necrophilia with the female corpses. He would go into grotesque and unnecessary detail with his young son about his co-workers necrophilia. "So this is a funny story, I don't know why you're not laughing. This is a funny story about the time I saw Carlos and we are full-towered

that old blind woman. Stop taking notes, I'm telling a story!" "You know, you did silly and you

in the moment that we find something, but I think that we're going to connect on you just blow me off!"

“"So what's he like?" "Well this caused necrophilia to become central to Gary sexual fantasies,”

because he began to believe that when you were having sex with the corps, there were no feelings involved one way or the other." "It could be super casual." "Yeah." "I'm Thomas, but also be quite vocal about his personal hatred towards sex workers. He thought they were subhuman and even though Gary would become a frequent customer on the block, both with sex workers he did and did not murder, he would hold the same opinions as his father throughout his life. Now as far as his mother went,

she also overshared with Gary when it came to the sexual escapades that came as a result of her work at J.C. Penny. Henry, did your mom ever talk about her sexual escapades at J.C. Penny the way the sexy things got? "The worst part is when I learned how she knew the term bucucky." And at first I thought it was because she had went by the sushi area by end of the food court.

And it turns out no, no, no, no, she met Mr. Yaki Motel. No, no, she never had sex there. No.

“"I don't think so, because when we went to J.C. Penny, you got to remember that was a classy place for us."”

"Sure." "Oh yeah, that was the classy place." "That's where I got my communion suit." "Yeah, well J.C. Penny, I mean, really, I mean, Dillards was always considered to be a fool. J.C. you guys had, we, we dreamt of Dillards." "Yeah, really." "Yeah, occasionally we'd go to a blooming Dills." "We're bird eyes." "Who are you?" "Oh, Mr. Vanderbilt." "I mean, you get me started on service merchandise." "No, my mom never fought. They're got sucked or fucked or got fucking gapped in a J.C. Penny's." "At least that she told you about." "Yeah, okay." "I honestly, I'm going to get her an ask." "You know what she told me?" "I shouldn't tell you." "I'm trying to personally, I tried to separate the art of the show."

"From the artist, the art being her mother would have me." "Uhm, understandable." "Well, Mary Rita would tell Gary how much she enjoyed measuring men who needed to be fit for pants. Some men she said would get involuntary erections from her touch." "Like you, Gary?" "Yeah." "Just who would have tried them off!" "Others would have met a certain scent that Mary Rita would inhale while she knelt in front of the crotch." "That's unreal." "Yeah, it's like a musk." "Do you like to shoot scent out of their cock?" "No, she smell it.

A guy's dirty ass balls." "Yeah." "I just turned it. She's turned on by smelly balls." "Yeah, she's turned on by smelly balls." "Oh, it's told her son about that." "Yeah, which is like the most, like truly one of the, yeah, sure you could be into dirty smelly balls." "God bless, yeah." "But I'm just saying that, you know, you just save that for the quilting room." "I didn't think about this. He's got his mother is talking about how much she gets turned on by smelly balls. Her, his father is talking about like, "Yeah, you can fucking

that girl. It's fine. It's okay. And this is what Gary Ridgeway's fucking grown up with." "Is it bad that I just got deja vu?" "Yeah." "It's interesting. It's certainly interesting. You still be my playground." But Mary Rita also continued pushing her son around to the point of depression and deep embarrassment, even beyond the bed wedding incidents. So Gary began fantasizing about murdering his own mother in great detail. He thought about stabbing her in the heart, choking her to death, and setting the house on fire

with her still inside. "It's the whole house on fire." Gary even found her. "It's a bit of gunfire." "It's a bit of a bit of a gunfire." Gary even fantasized about torturing his mother, thinking often about what it would be like to sew up her vagina with a needle and a thread.

"It'd be difficult, but also I'd be proud if I could do it. It's because I finally finished

something that I wanted." "I mean, that's first time I showed creativity." "Yeah." "I'm just trying to say positive." "I suppose." "It's true." "You don't even have to touch home." "Vague creativity." "I bet you he just swatches mom preparing the turkey one year for things giving. He's like, "Ooh, that's a good idea." From fantasizing about killing his mother, Gary moved on to fantasizing about raping and killing his classmates. He began following them home with a massive erection while thinking about all the

horrible things he wanted to do. Gary privately referred to this as patrolling because he's serial killers do love their little terms for their little games. "It's all validating, it's all the

shit never had to make it in a structure." "Yeah." Yeah. Eventually Gary's constant rage translated

itself into property damage, breaking an entering, excessive drinking, and theft. But Gary found that

“the only thing really released the pressure valve all the way was violence. In Gary's first”

violent act towards another human came in 1965 when he was just 16 years old. "This is like out of Stephen King novel." "It really is." And a wooded area beside Gary's high school, Gary stumbled upon a six-year-old kid dressed as a cowboy, and instantly he just plain. For some reason seeing this child

in?" "Yeah." "I don't even have any jerky." So he approached the boy with a plan. He asked the

“kid if he wanted to go into the woods with Gary where they'd build a fort together. Because Gary said”

there were a lot of people around, quote, "would like to kill little bullies like you." So when Gary got the kid out to the woods and the kid picked up a stick, Gary pulled out his knife and stabbed the child in the torso, hitting his liver. And Gary watched and laughed as the blood flowed out of the wound and filled up the child's cowboy boots. But instead of finishing the act, Gary simply walked away. The boy made his way to the road and was found bleeding out by a teacher he survived. The

Gary Ridgeway would not be named as the perpetrator of this crime for another 36 years. This of course was after he was arrested as the green river killer, and he began listing his crimes throughout his life. The cops looked back at the records, looked and found. When Gary said it happened, that there was a kid who was stabbed, dressed as a little cowboy, it all happened.

“Gary Ridgeway could not remember the names of his childhood pets, but he had a near-photo-graphic”

memory of every single crime he ever committed. "That's not true." He would, well, depends on what he'd like, he could tell that he fantasized and thought about the stuff. That was important to him. Yeah, there's a lot of, there are things that were photographic, there were some things that were hazy, let's just say he was all fucked up. He was all fucked up, but yeah, I mean, it just turns out for somebody who couldn't remember his pets, it was shocking how many different

shallow graves he could remember. It made different places he could go. I just can't believe he was dressed up like a cowboy. It's 16. No. I was getting high and shit. No boy was dressed as a cowboy. You're Ridgeway was doing two, two, that cowboy today. How do you, how do you, you're ready to do that? You said that we're going to set up and go down to the bridge.

“Oh, so the kid was a bunch longer. The kid was six years old.”

Yeah, I see. It all makes sense now. I'm sorry.

Sorry. But while the incident with the little cowboy was Gary's first act of series violence against

another human, he also very likely committed his first murder around this time. Later, Gary would say that he was unsure if his first murder was a hallucination or a dream, which, as you're about to find out, is a common theme amongst Gary's confessions. There is, however, usually evidence linking Gary's hazy recollections to real-life events, so they are worth taking seriously. In 1964, Gary said that he and a younger boy were swimming in a lake near Seattle when Gary suddenly

wrapped his legs around his swim mates neck and dragged the kid into the water below. Gary said that the kid did fight back, but Gary held the kid underwater until he stopped moving. Once the kid was dead, Gary said he pulled the body under a nearby dock and left it floating there. Now, while that might have been a hallucination or a dream, public records show that two boys did indeed drown in that same lake during the same year, Gary recalled drowning this boy.

So, it is possible that Gary was responsible for at least one of them. And it's not uncommon for serial killers at this age when their teenagers, especially even if they end up killing women later on, to kill little boys, to just kill anyone. Well, they're around little boy. Yeah, and that's, but it sounds a lot like Ted Bundy. It sounds a lot like there's that story, you know, with Ted Bundy with the little girl when he was little girl, and it matches all his demos later on.

Actually, and we'll find that Gary Ridgeway and Ted Bundy share a lot in common. But even though Gary's life was becoming increasingly dark, both within and without, he actually evened out once he got to high school when it came to social interaction. He actually began dating, and eventually got a pretty girl named Claudia Craig to go steady after the two of them met at the supermarket where they both worked. Interestingly,

Claudia's mother later said that when Gary came over to their house, when I'm used 1617,

he just sit there and never say a word. One day, she said that he came over and just sat in a chair

for a full eight hours. Didn't say a word to anyone. That's fascinating. Just stared at the wall. He's just weird, old dude. He just always didn't. He doesn't know how to human. He doesn't know how to be a human being. That's better. Jammer and on for a fucking eight hours. That was true. That was true. But it's all fine if it wasn't Gary Ridgeway. But far rather forget that he was there, because at the end of the eight hours, like if you bring

that kid over here, one more time out of fucking murder. I hate Gary. Gary smells like pee. By the end of it, Gary Ridgeway came out of high school in 1970 with the reputation of a normal,

at the age of 20, barely able to read or write. Wow. But since this is 1970, and the draft for the Vietnam War was in full effect, Gary was actually smart enough to join the Navy to avoid the army. Because in 1970, guys like Gary Ridgeway, i.e. guys that were poor and not too bright,

they were amongst the first to be handed a rifle before being sent to die in the jungles of Vietnam.

How do you have been a great Vietnamese corpse? How do you have been great over there? So after going through basic training in San Diego, Gary was assigned to the USS Vancouver in the Philippines, making him yet another serial killer who served in the Vietnam War, but came nowhere near combat. So interesting. 7 or 8.

“Wow. That we know of. At the very end, that's just that we know of. Who are some of the popular ones?”

David Berkowitz, Leonard Lake. Yeah, Leonard Lake was at the heat. He definitely was a big liar. I think Arthur Shaw Cross may be. Yes, some pretty certain Arthur Shaw Cross. Henry's dad. Yeah. My daddy only could kill my dreams. Well, like so many other serial killers in Vietnam, Gary Ridgeway discovered the wide world of sex workers overseas. David Berkowitz was another who got very involved with sex workers over there.

Yeah, it's a fairly tell. Yeah, you don't know. Apparently, though, something happened to Gary

that he would never actually discuss, which is surprising considering how Gary would talk about

pretty much anything once investigators got him going. Gary said that something happened with sex workers in the Philippines that he never got out of his system, something that was so bad that he said he probably should have gone to counseling for it, but Gary refused to elaborate any further on what actually happened. Probably got to shit kicked out on by a pimple. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one thing that Gary definitely talked about was how the Philippines

kickstarted his lifelong fetish for inserting foreign objects into vaginas. He said this developed from experiences with local Filipino sex workers who would walk up to sailors reach under the skirts and pull out pre-inserted beer bottles straight from the vagina. Wow, were they cold? They were very warled. These beer bottles would then be handed over to a potential customer. I suppose is a way to impress or titulate the American sailors.

What are we just learning from the antilevase series? What have we learned about old men recently? I, they were disgusting. Yeah. Older men and what they liked was actually way grosser than even what we like now. You mean men from that time period? Yeah. There's something about like like that being like my my the stories I heard for my dad when he used to go to hogs and haphors. It was a lot of girls pee in the vein. Oh, yeah. The original coyote ugly. Really?

Yeah. That's what it's all based off of. It just did a lot of old play that we weren't, you know, there was like penny raids. Yeah. You know, yeah. Before they put up with a lot more.

“They stopped putting up with stuff. Yeah. And I think that's I think that's what change. She said stop.”

Yeah. That's not a lot of Navy men at the time. Gary caught gonorrhea twice during his time in the service, but he surprisingly didn't place the blame for that on the sex workers. He said they actually treated him well and they introduced him to the more erotic sexual practices beyond the vanilla missionary position. He means doggy style. That's what he became obsessed with.

Gary would, however, also later tell his second wife that he developed a hatred for these same

Filipino sex workers. So Gary had developed a relationship with sex workers that was to say the least messy. He both loved them for giving him pleasure and he hated them for what that sin represented. But even though Gary was having sex with women in the Philippines who both were and were not sex workers, he had shipped off to the Navy as a married man. His high school girlfriend, Claudia Kreg, had actually agreed to marry Gary before he went off to the Philippines.

Marion Peepance, Gary, man. Yeah. It's like a men or dogs. Unbelievable. You fucking take on that piss soaked gentleman. And then he's gonna go and get covered and fucking gonorrhea in the war. By the time they got together, he'd cleared up the beeping.

“Then the bed-writing stoppin' he was about 15. You know if it ever leaves your spirit?”

You know what I mean? In the, in the dock, it said that he got gonorrhea and Chlamydia and that he resented the sex workers for it. And that's kind of like why he started killing people down the road. The dock simplifies. That's a huge simplification. Yeah, that's a massive, massive simplification. Doesn't, doesn't Chlamydia untreated, make you crazy? He was treated. Yeah, because he got treated the military hospital. He went and got via, if you catch it,

go something get for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And really, all of these details in true crime,

Did he get gonorrhea once and Chlamydia once? It's from its history. Yeah. Yeah. Because he lies too. Yeah. Now, Claudia was left back in San Diego, but she was just as unfaithful as Gary. And because both of them were unfaithful, the marriage fell apart less than a year after they got married. Gary branded his wife a whore, even though he had also stepped out dozens of times and Gary's hatred towards women grew even more.

Now, he had tried a few relationships after returning from the Philippines to Washington State, but after he found that he couldn't make anything last more than a few months, he returned to sex workers, all while his rage towards women continued bubbling in his belly. And after Gary received an honorable discharge after 23 months in the Navy, he got a job at a plant called Kenworth trucking that specialized in the production of medium and heavy duty

commercial trucks, 18 wheelers and such. There, it was discovered that Gary had an affinity for detailing vehicles, which involved painting the lettering logos and stripes that indicate which truck belongs to which company or which trucker. Because this is the age of the trucker. Yeah. Come forth. This is when truckers, they were the ones killing sex workers with impunity and we should have, you know, like we could celebrate to them by saying, here you go,

here's some PTSD. Kings of the Road. They were. Gary did not start off as a master

detailer. And whatever Gary did, he always started off making mistakes, but once he got it,

“he could nail it. The only thing that would trip Gary up is if some part of the process changed.”

And Gary fucked up so often that he got the long lasting nickname wrong way, because of how many times he would have to repaint an entire truck after using the wrong color or the wrong kind of pay. Wrong way, Ridgeway. And he did not like the nickname. He did not like being called, because they would call him wrong way. Gary. Yeah, wrong way. Wrong way, which is placed, replaced, pissed pants, Gary. And he's just been like, I'm a big no building now.

As far as this reputation at work went, Gary was known as friendly if overbearing because what gave people pause was Gary's behavior towards female employees. Many occasions Gary would approach a female co-worker and massage their shoulders without asking them. And since this was 1972, his behavior was shrugged off as, oh, Gary, he's friendly. He's just a little too friendly,

“but essentially harmless. Oh, I think all the sex workers kind of made him weird with ladies.”

He might have. Yeah. But even though Gary was a creep, he never had trouble getting wives,

much less girlfriends. And he met his next wife, Marsha Winslow, using a tactic that would probably get him pepper spray in this day and age. It's just hard out there for women. Okay. And the bar is extremely low. And it is only just raised about three inches, maybe. Yeah. Well, 1972, Marsha Winslow was driving a scenic loop that circled Lake Washington. And a car very suddenly pulled up quickly and closely behind her own. Marsha pulled over,

assuming it was a cop that was trying and somehow failing to get for a ticket. Because for being honest, it's not like Gary Ridgeway. He did not, the women that he was with were also, they were about as smart as he was. Hi. I, I, I, yeah. It kind of, it comes up over and over again.

“You have to be. Yeah, because this was, because any intelligent woman would just shit him out.”

Yeah, this woman was pulled over by him in a way that is very frightening. Very frightening. In the fact that she's just like, oh, okay. I guess I'll see what he wants. But instead, it was Gary Ridgeway who introduced himself as an interested romantic party. Uh, I just would say you were speaking back there into my romantic inclination. Incredibly, Marsha was charmed by his clean cut appearance and his military manners.

And even though he accidentally called Marsha by his first wife's name, the first time they

had sex. Marsha and Gary quickly moved in together and were married by 1973. Now, Gary's first wife said that his sexual habits weren't anything special. Gary insisted on anal sex with his second wife, Marsha, and sometimes tied her hands and feet with belts from bathrobes he started getting into bondage. Gary also began exploring his fetish for having sex outdoors, usually off hiking trails or campsites. Incidentally, he and Marsha would have sex in

many of the same places that Gary would later hide the bodies of his murder victims. You eventually Gary became so fond of having sex outdoors that he installed silk screen wall paper featuring forest scenes on the headboard of his bed so he could still quote enjoy the view while having sex indoors. If I could just webgull and if you could just have moving your head around

On these trips though, Gary's behavior was also becoming more sinister. He would suddenly

“disappear into the woods during hikes so he could practice being completely silent.”

So the point where his wife was worried that he wasn't coming back and then at the height of her fear as she's wandering around saying, Gary, Gary, where are you? He'd either jump out from behind a bush and go, or he'd grab her arm from behind. Later, Marsha would say, quote, "He'd like to see how softly he could walk so that he could be just totally nisedless?" And he could do it too. There's an exclamation point on that, because I can, because that's the

thing's like, that's not the voice that I hear, it's just like, "It's a, you know, you know, you sound, he sound is so kind of." A lot of people say, "I sound like a man. I agree." The Marsha lasted four longer than Gary's first wife and by 1975, Marsha had given birth to Gary's first son, Matthew. Where's he at? You know what? Give him his privacy.

“"Side still is up, you'll tell a Gmail that come love to hear from me."”

I'm guessing wherever he is, he's got a different last name after Matthew's birth. "Bridge Wayne." You know we're supposed to give these people their privacy,

because it is only right, but I'm always so curious where the fuck they're off hiding.

"Of course, you know." I'm just like, "You cause, I mean, it's got to just destroy you." Most of them are just off trying to live their lives. Every once in a while, you get somebody who wants to come forward and make it their entire identity like Dennis Raider's daughter. Yeah, like, some of these people. That's very rare. Most of the time, these people change their names, like a lot of, a lot of them in the past, like as soon as the guy, the husband gets arrested,

the mother will move, change your name and never speak to them again. Yeah, I would just, that was my dad. I would just make sure. I mean, I'm already not having kids, but like I would just make sure I don't have kids. Yeah, they just snip it off. Yeah. Yeah, they're just, do the inside cut. Yeah, tell the butt line. Yeah, yeah, it's a story. God, I know. You don't deserve it anymore. I'm actually, there is an interview with Matthew

Ridgeway in the news tribune from 2000 fucking, from, uh, it was updated in 2021. Wow.

And it's him being like, that's just weird because like, my dad never used racial slurs. He never

yelled, and he never talked about prostitutes. It was just, I mean, I don't know. He just, he was just trying to be a father. Like you see in the TV shows. Father knows best. Gary knows best.

“Gary knows best. That's how bored we all were during COVID. We, that's your free time.”

I'm not a high school father. Yeah. I give you some attention. I mean, you guys know, I've been never I've been in the twitching mode. Well, after Matthew's birth, Gary got far more religious, but rather than following in his mother's Catholic footsteps, Gary joined several Protestant churches as if one church wasn't enough. Marsha described Gary as being almost fanatical about religion after the birth of their son. He would read the Bible, both at home and at work.

She said that tears would fall from Gary's eyes during church services and he'd spend his nights watching TV while clutching his Bible. Gary even started walking door to door in his neighborhood trying to convert his neighbors, but he would get furious when those neighbors inevitably slam their doors in his face again and again. Is that common? Like people being really religious and also being serial killers? No, not really. They usually get atheists. It depends. It's because there's

also there's a whole subset. There's the missionary killer. There's a there's a subset of of killer that is entirely religiosity like based. It's all like their own fantasy world. So it really depends. Like largely you it would turn it, it would turn it into a new category. He is a guy that would use the Bible for what I'm going to, am I my call? My fucking Sunday morning. It's like I just call is the fact that he used it as like a lot of people use it,

which is the possible hell Mary paths at the end of life. And then he was constantly trying to validate the feelings that he was feeling because weirdly it all came from this like emotional place. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's very easy with Christianity to come to the conclusion that women are evil because there are many churches that preach that specific thing. Yeah, many verses in the Bible let's talk about it. Yeah. The whole story of Adam and Eve and every single woman that is

ever around Jesus Christ is always just something him and doing it. It's almost like they

they've been putting that idea that women are evil, expendable horrors in our brains ever since

they whenever they want to get more involved. They put them in a habit and stick them in a building. You want to know why? You want to know why? It's because I'm certain to think it's because women

“hold people accountable. Yeah. I think that might be a part of the function. Yeah. I'll be”

I remember him saying in the dock that he thought that he would be forgiven if he asked for it. Sure.

That's the hell Mary. Yeah, it's always that back pocket. Oh, he's got to look at

David Berkowitz. That's all it is. He's Mr. Jesus now. Yeah. Yeah, when David Berkowitz and Gary Ridgway died by by the rules of Christianity. Both of them are going to have it. Them. Just give me them. Charlie Kirk, Michael Jackson. All of our family. We were a pattern of Gregor. Oh, I'm in a great timing. The Gary's main church was Pentecostal and his pastor and steel. Oh, which is bad. Yeah, bad idea for him. And his pastor instilled even more archaic views about women beyond the

horrible shit as parents had already taught him. The Pentecostals taught that wives and daughters wouldn't make it to heaven if they didn't obey their husbands. And even something that's small as having short hair or wearing the color red, both of those things massive sins for women. What if it's our hair? We've been worse. Who's out of her cut her head. Cut her fucking head off. Cut her fucking head off. Save it. This of course caused a rift in Gary's marriage just like

it had in his parents' marriage. Although the male and female roles in Gary's marriage were reversed. But speaking Gary's mother, Mary Rita soon became the main pressure point in Gary and Marcia's marriage. For some reason, Mary Rita had access to Gary's bank accounts. And she made her opinions known concerning how Gary and Marcia spent their money. People are weird with that. Really weird about it. On weekends, Gary would spend his free time with his mother instead of his wife. But Marcia

soon discovered that it was probably for the best if Gary went on these visits alone. One night when Marcia came along, Thomas and Mary Rita got into a fight. And Mary Rita got so worked up that she smashed a plate over her husband's head. A Thomas left the room without saying a word, which had become a pretty common reaction from Gary's father throughout Gary's life when his mother got abusive. But by the early mid-70s, Gary's head was filled with a bunch of pinocostal bullshit about how

women were supposed to act. And Mary Rita had only become more domineering after she'd been promoted

“to a manager position at J.C. Penny. You can't fuck with that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it wrong?”

I'm like rightfully certain. Yeah. We're gonna nine to five. So the idea of how a woman was supposed to act as it was presented in Gary's Pentecostal church, that became mixed with Gary's hatred towards the fair sex, which edgeed him closer and closer towards serial murder. After Gary got switched to night shifts, detailing trucks, and Marcia started taking classes during the day, the relationship began to dissolve. Marcia then got gastric bypass surgery and lost a lot of

weight. So it was a warning sign, fellas. And she used her newfound confidence to start a career as a professional singer entertaining locals at nearby bars. I just love her life. I love her life isn't saying. She's fucking on the great trajectory. I don't like this family, Gary. I'm getting

a bypass as you know, I'm becoming a singer. Gary, you're always making a big deal about the

Bible, but my Bible is the song book of lies of analysis. Gary, of course, hated his wife's new lease on life. And he started accusing her of sleeping with other men during her late nights entertaining. This was, of course, projection, because Gary had never stopped seeing sex workers

“throughout his two marriages, despite what the church might have to say about it. Because remember,”

he still thinks that masturbation is one of the worst sins in the world. Things between Marcia and Gary came to a head one night when they returned home from a party where they'd both been drinking. They argued all the way home, but when they pulled into the driveway and Marcia got out of the car, Gary hung back. He then snuck up behind her using his silent technique and he began

choking her, so she couldn't see who was doing it. Marcia actually thought for a second that some

stranger was indeed attacking her, which he soon realized what was really happening. See after Gary let go, he tried dodging around the other side of the car like a fucking little kid trying to get away with something. Then he emerged pretending to be shocked at, "Oh my God, some guy just tried choking you, that's crazy." He wouldn't believe he, I saw him yet beating the eyes and he did a big dumb mouth. He used to wringo here. He must dashed him with this. Marcia, of course, knew that

Gary was the perpetrator. Or for Gary's part, he said that this was the moment when something vicious

He said, quote, "Well, at that, I wanted to have sex with the press, dude, and kill you doing that."

“The right quote. I'm one of the many things that's hard to pin down concerning areas.”

This is what I like. I mean, it's so hard. We go through everybody's eyes like, "Oh, do what you're

love, and then you never have to work a day in your life." And actually, what Gary shows is an exact

example, when your passion becomes your work, you actually never stop working. Yeah, it's true. The piffinies aren't always good. Yeah, you're a wreak of moments that have been pretty bad for us. Yeah, really bad. Yeah, the same guy who created let a gasoline also created CFCs. Oh, we couldn't use two less Eureka's from that guy. You can just see the guy pouring COVID 17 before an 18 together in a

one mile. Now, one of the many things that's hard to pin down concerning Gary Ridgeway is exactly when he began murdering women. He told investigators that it was "very possible" that he'd killed several women during the 1970s, but his memories were hazy. The best he could offer was a vague memory of killing a sex worker while he was living with Marsha, but he could

“only remember that something went wrong on a so-called date and that he'd probably killed a sex”

worker during that date. That's just saying, this is just how many he killed. Yeah, it's weird to kind of believe him. Yeah. Oh, I'm 100%. Absolutely, believe me. He's not smart enough to lie. And he's not a Henryley Lucas. He corroborated quite a bit of what he was talking about later on. It's just, you know, it's just heart when you look at him and you're like, you can't believe how much devastation this little fucking idiot did. But you can also tell that he's also

trying to figure out like, what happened? He's trying to figure out like, that's why he's talking. He talks so much and he's just like, he even, it's a, he's a mystery even to himself. I mean, they do those right. We'll get into later on when they do the thing where they drive him around and stuff. And he's just been like, thank you Mr. Grease. They think it's so much. And he's just like, this nice little man. He's like whistling and stuff. Yeah.

Now, according to Marsha, Gary kept coming home later and later throughout the mid to late 70s. And he'd often walked through the door, wet and covered in dirt with no other explanation,

other that his car had broken down again and again and again. She also noted that Gary always kept

several roles of a protective plastic covering called this queen in the bed of his truck. And several of his later victims would of course be found covered in the same variety of plastic wrap. And you know, he got that from his detailing job. Yeah, of course. So no finger prints on that. No, actually, so he must have used gloves. Yeah. Well, this is, it really depends dude because it's like, in terms of the technology, fingerprint technology is really nowhere near

anything that they show on movies and television. Yeah. It is so it's such an in exact science.

“And it's so not dependable that it's so hard to do because you have to, you have to, you have”

to make sure nobody fucks up the, the scene. Yeah. It has to be pristine. And I guess it's all covered in dirt, too. Well, also remember, like, his victims were usually found two, three days later, sometimes, some weeks later, years later. And this is the Pacific Northwest. It's fucking raining all the time. Yeah. You know, so that that that makes forensic evidence like fingerprints really difficult to lift. Investigators tried their damnedest to pin down Gary's first kill.

But the best Gary could do was vaguely recall two or three times in which he thought he'd kill the woman. In these incidents in the late seventies, Gary said that he might have strangled women then left their bodies in the middle of the street against the fence in a popular park or lying

against a new stand where they would definitely have been found. But Ridgeway said that he'd never

heard any reports in the media about these women. So he concluded again and again that he had only choked these women until they'd lost consciousness. Now, to Gary left them, he thought that they'd just woken up and walked away. Saying quote, "You figured you'd cheat wake up if she wasn't dead?" "You'd figure." "Yeah?" "You would." "If that's above the bit, man." "Who'd say it?" "I'd pretend that's not it. Did I kill those women?" But by 1980, Marsha had finally had

enough of Gary Ridgeway. That summer, she told Gary to go out and treat himself to a nice breakfast alone. And while he thought it was a strange request, he still did what he was told. Simple guy. Simple little guy. Simple guy, simple gal. Go get some bread. You imagine that? You imagine you come home. You know you're in trouble. You know how much trouble you're at if your wife goes, "Hey, go get some fucking breakfast." Go off. Go off. Go get breakfast.

Go get breakfast. Yeah. Honestly, it's a big, great way to deal with fights. But when Gary came

all of her shit and all of her sons shit packed up and gone by the time he returned.

“Didn't you go to the goddamn shownies? That thought you were going to the buffet.”

Well, it is a better fact that I, oh good, that actually stopped by the deal. You stepped by the breaky and it gets a pretty feast for me. Because, you know, Marsha thought that she could get all of her stuff to move out of the time. It takes a man to eat a stack of pancakes. Like I said, not, not the brightest bowl by there. The regardless of Marsha's cognitive abilities, Gary was extremely upset that Marsha had left. He'd wanted to be a normal family man. And now,

he'd had his second marriage fail after seven years and they've also got a five-year-old son

together. Gary's anger only grew when he found out he had to pay child support. But the new expense certainly didn't stop him from dulling out 20 bucks a blow job to the sex workers he continued picking up around the C-Tax strip. Later, a forensic psychiatrist asked Gary why he wanted a hurt sex workers in the first place and Gary mainly offered that it was because women had heard him, specifically his first two wives had heard him. Gary, in fact, said that he had thought

about killing Marsha because he didn't want to be seen as a loser with two failed marriages. Gary even speculated that if he had just killed Marsha back in 1980, he would only have the

murder of one woman on his conscience instead of 50 plus. And he actually used that number. He said

50 plus because by the end of it, Gary himself only had a vague idea of how many women he'd killed. But he said the only reason why he didn't kill Marsha is because he knew he would be the prime suspect, which proved that for Gary Ridgeway, killing was absolutely a choice. Yeah, so it's weird. He's stupid, but he knows that. You see, well, that's because this is what being stupid, that's like one of the biggest injustices about being stupid, is that you can be stupid and know your stupid.

And he's just smart enough to know how stupid he is and he can't see, it is like a fog when he can't see all of the reasons for the decisions that he makes because he works really instinctually and he doesn't have, which shows again, he should, he would have killed Marsha. If he was going to kill or he would have killed her. And I actually partially think it's the other, it's the, I kind of thought of my head get this section of been free. We should be doing this,

she should be loving me. This is like a thing. And when I kill her wipes out the whole incident, I feel like there's some of that too. And then we'll also find a later on. He killed them to freeze them in place. Possibly. Yeah, I mean, to, so then he could do whatever he wants. Not all the time, but

“sometimes. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. I mean, I think with Marsha, the only reason why he would kill is”

he would kill her. So no one would find out about the divorce. Yeah. Because if he killed her, then he's a grieving widower with a young son and he gets a lot of sympathy from his church, from his peers, from his parents, from everybody. But he knew he was smart enough to know,

like the husband's always the first person. So yeah, always a choice for him. Now not too long

after Marsha followed for divorce. Gary was arrested for the first, but certainly not the last time in relation to prostitution. After cruising for a lady of the night, Gary picked one up and began choking her the same way he choked Marsha. This woman survived and did report the assault to the police. But guess what happened? The police absolutely questioned Gary, but Gary calmly explained that the choking was a justified act of self defense, because the woman had bitten his penis during oral sex.

The church got dropped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know that fucking story. Yeah, but he get out of here. I get out of here. And the cops had no further questions for Gary retry. God's are great. Damn. That's fucking horrifying. Gary bleak. There's like even if his case is true, it's still very, very bleak. Yeah, still talking to a woman. Yeah, yeah, it's just ended. But you forget Eddie. It's not a woman to them. It's a sex worker. So she's

expendable. Yes. Yeah, he's still going to rest him for the sex work thing. No, not worth it.

“That's what I can't really prove that. They have to catch in the act. He said she pit his dick. Yeah. That's what guys do, buddy.”

Yeah, it's you know how many pores you choke. Right? Yeah, but you love to do that. Like inside you. When you said that. Yeah, what you love to do. Yeah. It's really false shit, Henry. You like it. No, you know what he likes. After his divorce, Gary discovered a support group called parents without partners. And he began meeting women that he didn't have to pay to be in his presence after his divorce was finalized in May of 1981.

Gary began dating a woman who was known only as Darlov. Darlov sounds like she'd be for Gary.

Damn. And just like he done with Marsha, Gary quickly moved in with Darlov in her West Seattle home,

“although she had no idea what kind of person she was. Darlov wasn't really a think ahead type of gal.”

Now, magic fun to the fun lady. She really is. She quickly discovered that Gary was the type who liked sex.

One of it up to three times a day. And according to Darlov, sex was basically Gary's hobby.

And Darlov liked sex too. So that was all right. As far as personality went, Darlov described Gary as gentle, if a bit dim and detached, but Darlov pretty much saw Gary is just a fun fling. He liked having sex outdoors. Darlo was an exhibitionist. And since Gary was clean, consider it, and didn't drink much, he was surprisingly safe. Little barps just so low. I like there because he likes the fuck outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like it leaves in my toes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great step and I want you to squirt it.

“Things used to be simple. Yeah. The Darlov and Gary therefore began exploring their sexuality”

even more. And Gary reawakened his insertion fetish by shoving fruit up Darlo's vagina while she was

tied up. She did say he never hurt her. And the weirdness of it all was actually quite exciting.

From my reading, Gary and Darlo seemed like the type of couple who would send nude polaroids to men's magazines like gallery for their girl next door spreads. Today they're the type who'd probably upload videos to pornhub under the amateur heading. Nobody knows what gallery is. It's only Marcus who collects hundreds of them. You know how, you know your favorite magazine. Okay, Gary, it's better than hustler but not as good as we. I'll say that. As far as information goes and as far as, you know,

you ever, you know, you know, you have a subscription to slit magazine. Yeah. Dead girls dead girl mom. Hey, you took it to that place. These are classy magazines. Dead girl mom. It's all girls are rely last month. But well, they were all having a fun sexy time. Oh, yeah. Gary decided in 1981 that he wanted full

custody of his son. Yeah, he needs to be a dad. Darlo. It's my first thought. Darlo, however, already had

four kids that were all in the custody of their respective father. She fucks in the wood. Yeah. Yeah, if that's a father of my first son was the god Pam. Yeah, the green man of the hell fuck. Like I said, you look at these like, you know, the pictures that they send in and these old magazine is like, what kind of person? What kind of people are these? It's Darlo. Yeah, Darlo, waitress, Pacific Northwest. But she didn't really want even raise her own kids. No, so she certainly didn't

want to hand and raise in anyone else's. So Darlo broke up with Gary and Gary got another woman to hate. Soon after though, Gary bought a house on the aforementioned strip in what is now the city of C-Tac between Seattle and Tacoma Washington. This was the Pacific Highway South Highway 99 corridor south of Seattle around C-Tac Airport, which was quite the popular spot for sex workers. And so Gary now had a house that was right next to a location where the sex workers were available in numerous.

And if we go by what another of his girlfriend said, the one after Darlo, this easy access was marching Gary closer to murder. This former girlfriend, whom Gary had also met through the parents without partner support group, said that on fucking Christmas Eve, 1981, Gary broke down and told her that he had nearly killed a woman recently. Let's just say, Gary, these confessions

“are more of a February thing. Yeah, because really honestly, I just want to watch white Christmas.”

I don't want to do this right now. I'm not January at the Earth. It's also parents that partners is like a good idea, but it should clearly be single moms, the single dad. You're sad. Let's fuck. Welcome to mistakes weekly. Two months later, in February of 1982, Gary told another girlfriend that he'd done something. And while he didn't say what that something was, he did tell his girlfriend to pay close attention to the news in the coming days.

Now, no sex worker murders showed up in the news, but Gary later said that he vaguely remembered murdering a woman at his house around this time and dropping her body off somewhere on Highway 18. The identity of this woman, if she does indeed exist, remains unknown. But Gary was just two months

spree in a decades-long investigation. That, of course, is where we'll pick back up next time

for Gary's legendary rampage and a full exploration of the how when it comes to the age of the serial killer. Woo, God, it feels so good to be back in the blood. Sure. Like, you're a true crime. And it's true crime, honestly. Yeah. So fucking a good work, Marcus. Thank you. Good work, everybody. Good work, Eddie. I didn't do much, but watch a documentary. Patreon.com. You can also see last stream on the left live, every Tuesday, 5 p.m. P.S.T. also go to L.P.

“on the left for all of your social media needs. I'm going to stress, you need to go to”

L.P. and TV on YouTube. Watch our new H.X. too. Yes. By the year one more person says,

"You know why don't they promote these on the show? I know what's at the end. We do it at the end because in the beginning it's annoying." Yes. Right? It's sort of respect for you. We do it at the end, but that's the thing that you don't listen to the end, but for those of you listening, I love you. Yeah. Check out H.X. too. It's fucking great. Everyone fucking put their best foot forward on that. And we have an announcement coming very, very soon about Bloodbath 77. Yeah. We're coming

“out very, very soon. And then we will also be go check out. We got new things from no dogs coming out.”

We got new things from the private side. We're coming out. We got new things from spun, new things from romanticy, go check out all of our various YouTube channels. Yeah. Right now. Nerd of Mouth too is on YouTube. Yes, it is. We got them on camera. Yeah. But you're on camera. And then why? And you're really so kidding. So kidding. I'm nerd. So gonna boy. Oh, I'm so good man. I wish you could be in that room. Oh, man. We got two JK Ultra's left. And most importantly, if you're sad that you missed

the frickin' tour, we are putting what our last show in Oklahoma City is gonna live stream out.

“Yeah. So you guys can get tickets to that. Stay tuned for exact instructions on that.”

But that is gonna be shit next week. It's gonna happen. I can't wait for everyone to see this show. Yeah. We've refined it over two years. Yeah. We've been working on this thing. And we're gonna

put it to bed and I really want whoever hasn't seen it to see it because it is fucking amazing.

Please. So we're gonna be in Tulsa, Oklahoma on July 17th. And then we're gonna be in Oklahoma City on July 18th. And then I'm solo running over to Plano, Texas right after that on July 19th. So come hang out with me. That's where you're gonna meet like what's this name from no country-world men? You're gonna go over to Santa Angelo for that. Yeah, you're just playing out. You're just playing out. You're just playing out. You're just playing out. You're just playing out. But it is down. Yeah, you're you're in Dallas and you gotta travel quite far to get to the psychopaths. Yeah.

San Angelo, one of those days. Yeah, we'll get you out there. Thank you. I appreciate it. Also this next weekend, July 10th, 12th, and 13th, I'm in the Tri-State area. Come find me. I'm gonna be in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania for salute to Bethlehem. New work, New Jersey on the 12th, and City winery in New York City. With a bunch of, I booked some friends of the roundtable, if there's a little surprise for you guys. So that would be a lot of fun. It's really nice. Okay. Bring them chuckle hudders out of retirement. Now I love to hear it. Dust 'em off. Bring 'em up. We'll be back.

We'll see you next week. Hail sweet Satan. Thank you. Peepads, Gary. I'm gonna hail my new cousin, Melody, and Mitchell, who got married right next to the forest. We're Gary Ridgeway. It was murdering these people. Yeah. May your union be blessed. Yeah. It's another wonderful connection. Welcome to the family, Melody.