Bridging the Political Divide with Roy Cooper

Woo, I did look up at that Senate and I thought I might be a little young for this.

I don't believe we're as divided as the internet makes us think. Yeah, we get older, everything got more wrinkles, that's okay. Here we're laughing when we each laugh is like a comedy stage. And that's what we got to fly. Hi, everybody, I'm Kim Holdernis. And I'm Penn Holdernis and thanks for joining us on my affland.

Yes, if you have a stack of heating pads in your house, but you have a favorite one, you're welcome here. Okay, this is your people. This hits close to home. This is close to home because I injured myself very badly doing sleeping. Yeah, doing sleep.

I woke up yesterday and it hurt so bad to turn for my head to turn left. I was, it was making me nauseous. Yeah, you were not doing good sleep. I was not doing good sleep, so like halfway through the work day. I said, I need to go upstairs and just lie in the floor with my head to turn this way.

And it helped.

I mean, you guys, I was concerned.

I'm like, what happened? Did you do dance yesterday because she does like actual, like, I almost want to call it competitive dance at this point because they're all middle-aged. Competitive dancers. You guys are competing about who ends up in the front row. So it's technically, yeah.

You're not wrong. Yeah.

“Anyway, we have an important announcement with a incredible show today.”

But first. Thank you so much. Those of you who have pre-ordered for your support of our awesome new ADHD children's book, it's called Get It Done, and have fun ADHD hacks for awesome kids. Anytime they hear the little ding that someone has ordered one of our books, like my heart,

it jumps. I know like most of our stuff is just like kind of free out there with ads on the internet. And this is an actual thing that we make.

And so for that reason, it means a lot to us.

We can touch it. Right. And we don't get to do that with many things. We think it's a really important message for kids who, like me, when they were kids, had a tough time, like doing the mundane.

Yeah. Things that are chores. But also like knowing that that's a way to show respect and loyalty to your family. And so we're trying to find a fun way for kids to understand that and to help out the family. So go to get it done and have fun.com to get your copy.

Yes. I'm very excited for it to go on the world. Okay. Previously on this podcast, on our social media feed, I posted about experiencing the monks on their walk for a piece from Texas to DC, they walked in the winter.

And I was so worried about them and this no storm. So we talked about this experience.

“One of you, one of our loyal listeners and Gerald, do you've heard of Gerald before?”

If you've listened to this podcast, you know Gerald. He got on a plane and went to go see them and here's his email. And by the way, Gerald also got on a plane and came to meet us in Minneapolis. He's incredible. So we've met him.

So Gerald wrote, "Dear Kim, I wanted to let you know that you continue to inspire me. I did not know of the monk march until you attended it in Raleigh. I knew that I had to see it and be part of the movement. So I flew to Richmond, Virginia, and saw the march live. Got there 20 minutes early.

That's cut to close, Gerald. Gerald. You flew. I mean, this is not a Kim type jerk. No, I waited for your hours before.

Anyway, he started talking to a person about the march. We were one of the few that were there at the time and were afraid that there would not be much participation. But as it got closer to one PM, it was like a sea of humanity that lying the route. Thousands of people of all races, creeds, sexes, nationalities, ages, etc.

Join the march to the state capital. It was one of the best experiences of my life. Here is a picture for those of you on YouTube. This is a personal message of thanks. And hopefully this will bring you a smile and hope, sincerely, Gerald.

That made me cry. Yeah. Like, just talking about peace and hope inspired somebody else to find it. And hopefully, in his sharing his message that we can all, okay, the monks have finished their march.

Yeah. But we can all year. And for that. Thank you, Gerald. You continue to be my number one.

You made her smile. That's our goal here on LaFlan's is to smile.

“And sometimes we try to smile through difficult times, right?”

Yeah. And so today, let's see how this goes. We're going to try to smile about politics. Whoo! You guys, we've discussed this before.

We had a great friend. She also can swallow swords. Name Andrea Jones Roy just happens to be someone who's small. And she does stand up comedy and she's a data science. Yes.

And her data has shown over the last three decades. And this shouldn't surprise anyone, but using data that our nation has been divided into two and that divide has grown every single year.

That's just where we are right now.

“I think obviously, Andrea told us this too, a big reason for the divide is the way that”

social media and algorithms are set up, right? If someone said it's not like it used to be, when you would watch a channel and you'd get opinions on stuff. But someone would say something on your TikTok or Instagram, you would like it. The AI, the overlords, I can't believe I sound like my dad while I'm talking about this,

but I'm trying to explain it to everyone understands it. The algorithm says, "Oh, you like this? I bet you'll like this." Boom, boom, boom, boom, all of a sudden, your feed becomes an echo chamber of things that you believe in.

You can't help. It can't help, which is why you and I, if there's a big news event, we go to different, like what is the, quote, other side sharing? No, I watch, but there's, look, CNN and Fox News could not be more opposite. So when something happens, I watch both.

And it, like, honestly, both sides sometimes make me cringe because they appear to just mostly be attacking the other channel, instead of talking about the issue. Okay, so you mentioned your dad. How many times have I asked you, "God, what would your dad say right now?" I miss Penn's dad was a pastor, local community leader, so well respected by every political

side. He got involved in politics because you lead people and people are politics. So I have, like, been near tears going like, "Oh, God, I just wish I could hear his voice, like reassure me that everything's going to be okay." He was the pastor for a purple church for a long time and he found ways to, like, bridge

gaps between people and that was kind of beautiful and I think we could use that right now. And so we actually have a guest who is an old friend of my dad's. He does also happen to be running for Senate in the state of North Carolina, but I've known him for a long time and he reminds me of my dad and so I think he's going to make me feel

better today.

“I think what's important to mention is that historically, North Carolina, which is the”

state we live in, for presidential elections, will go to the Republican candidate. With two exceptions since I've been able to vote, I think it was Clinton and Obama the first time and everyone else else. Everyone else. So, yeah.

But Governor Werke Cooper is a Democrat and he's never lost in election and he was the attorney

general. He was our governor. I think that is fascinating. That is interesting because whatever color your state turns, right? You would think that'd be the same as Governor because it's in group of people voting and

they usually do the same thing. Yeah. Okay. We should officially introduce him. Werke Cooper has given his life to public service, with over three decades of experience

in state government, most recently, he served two terms as the 75th governor of North Carolina until 2025, as Governor Werke prioritized expanding access to health care, strengthening public education, and growing North Carolina's economy. He served four terms as attorney general for North Carolina. He's been a member of the North Carolina House representatives and a member of the North Carolina

Senate, where he was also a majority leader. Roy and his wife Kristen have three daughters. When he's not working, you'll likely find him spending time with family or cheering on North Carolina teams. We've seen him at Keynes Playoffs.

Oh, but at Penn, we only have a short time with him so you are not allowed to ask him about the most recent UNC Duke game because that would take up our entire time with if, why, that was such a great game. Okay.

I have never seen more gray-headed people in quarter-zips tackling each other.

Okay. See this is a different podcast. In a good way. Welcome to the show, Governor Roy Cooper. You guys are home town heroes, home town heroes.

We watch your stuff a lot. So you're being spied upon, you know, you're weird out stuff, and it's just really amazing.

“Did your dad, you know, you're a P.K., did your dad make you sing in the choir?”

My mom did. How about you're pretty good? Are you a tenor or are you sort of in between? Yeah, I was a soprano for a long time. I was a late bloomer, and then when nature took its course, I was a tenor, yeah.

I love it. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us today. We've been really looking forward to this. Thank you.

And mostly because you guys are old family friends, you know, you knew they would really well, and there's so many times over the last couple of years, I'm like, gosh, what would he would say? What would he would say? How do you remember about Penn's dad?

Well, you know, he would was my interim pastor at White Memorial Presbyterian Church. You know, I know he was a Westminster Presbyterian interim for years and years, but I so in tried and enjoyed the time when he came, I think it was a couple of years during that

And the thing about your dad, Penn, is that he was a faith in action kind of guy. I mean, he had his strong beliefs. He understood how to talk with people and listen to them, which is a real skill. But he also knew what the teachings of the Bible were and ministering to those in need, were critical.

And what he did helping to start urban ministries and the work he did with basic needs and life of making sure people got enough food and the work that he did to help spread food banks across North Carolina.

It was truly amazing and inspiring work.

And I like him too, because he's a tar heal fan, and he's a basketball fan, so we would talk tar heal, basketball, love it. Love it. Okay, Governor Cooper. Got the Alex Julian, you got the Alex Julian, our guy over there, the pastor.

And Governor Cooper, you don't have a lot of time, so I told Penn, I made him promise that we can't talk about the UNC do thing because that would take, that would take an extra 20 minutes and that we have important things to talk about.

“Well, all you have to do is just feel that, that's right, that's right, that's right.”

Take a moment and experience, that's all you have to do and thank you for what you said about my dad. I'm trying to fight back some tears right now. Can you tell me how faith has played part in your politics? Well, first, let's just take about, talk about my decision to run for the United States

Senate. I had finished Governor's office, served as Governor of North Carolina for eight years and had left the Governor's office and was trying to think, "Hey, what am I going to do now when I grow up?" And I thought about teaching, I got solicited to go and teach and I said my only experience

teaching is two and a half decades of Sunday school and I knew at the end of that hour, I was exhausted. So I don't know if I'm your man, but I did end up going and teach some. But I kept being pulled to this U.S. Senate seat because I really thought I was going to leave elected politics.

“But because I think we're at a perilous time in our country, a lot of people are suffering”

right now and I think all of us need to think about what we can do in our own way to make a difference. And there's a passage in the book of Luke that kept coming through my mind as I would said in churches to who much has given, much has required. I kept thinking about my life growing up in Eastern North Carolina.

My mom and dad were absolutely amazing, I always told them, if I could be half the parents

that they were to me, to my children, that I'd be successful. My mom's a school teacher. I was grateful to get a good education, I was grateful to have an amazing wife and three beautiful daughters, I've had great physical help, financial security, emotional support. I have a job that I love doing every single day, those are so many blessings and I knew

I still needed to give back and to step up and run for this U.S. Senate seat to help people who really have been left behind when you think about almost half the people in this country couldn't get $500 in an emergency if they needed it. That's a wealth divide that we have to address and ministering to those people like your dad did, making sure they have opportunities to succeed, I'm not talking giveaways, I'm talking

about good education, good health care, mental health, you guys have been amazing and what

you have done in the mental health arena.

“My faith has played a role in and because I think that we all have to step up in our own way”

and this is something that I know how to do, I did look up at that Senate and I thought, I might be a little young for this, but I thought, you know, it was time to be for me to step up and I'm really enjoying being out there on the trail. I know your dad loved the beach, he did, but what was Casablanca? Yeah, that happened in the county.

Yep, I did keep looking at that, so we have a very national international audience and we are talking about North Carolina right now, but I think what would fascinate our international audiences that your a Democrat that runs in a state that typically goes historically more red and presidential election. And when the presidential elections that went to the Republican

Well, it's more of a wee thing for one, I want to give credit to people who have worked with me

“four years who we tried to put people first. I think going back to preachers that I've had”

including your dad, and my dad, they always told me that you want to try to stand in another person's

shoes to try to figure out what they are experiencing. And I've always tried to do that and I've always worked to try to do what I think is right. And I don't believe that we are as divided in the country and in the world for that matter as a lot of leaders want us to be leaders who succeed because they're able to divide us. And I think concentrating on those issues that bring us together has allowed me to be elected and earn the trust of the people, like health care for

example. This is something most everybody struggles with. And I've spent a lot of time working to try

“to improve the quality, reduce the costs, and spread the access of health care to people. And”

really the true answers of this are going to be at the federal level, unfortunately, and it's another reason why I'm running. But I've been grateful to work across party lines and to work in a bipartisan way as much as I can. Can you make my soul feel better and just give me an example of someone who you've worked with on the other side of the aisle to enact change? I just don't see much of it these days. All right, we had an opportunity to expand Medicaid in North Carolina. And that

was filling the gap between people who made too much money to qualify for regular Medicaid, but not enough money to qualify for subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. So there was a gap and there was a lot of uninsured people. And the way the Affordable Care Act worked or otherwise called Obamacare was that states had the option to get into Medicaid expansion. A lot of seven states just refused to do it. And North Carolina refused to do it for a long time because it was

labeled as Obamacare, and they were just going to be against it. When I was attorney general, I had an opportunity to work with sheriffs and law enforcement. And when Medicaid expansion opportunity came up, I went to them. And many sheriffs talked about the fact that a lot of people in their jail have mental illness issues, and there weren't places for them to be treated. Many people in their jail had addiction issues, and they just couldn't find them treatment,

and they didn't need to be there. To a lot of Republican county commissioners who knew that their rural hospitals, that their doors were going to close. If they didn't get compensated more for the people that they were actually treating, they were treating so many uninsured people. And we worked to form a coalition of Republicans who lobbied Republican legislator. And it's

very powerful. When you have a tough on crime, Republican sheriff coming to the legislature

and telling Republicans that a lot of people in my jail need health care and not handcuffs, and we need more mental health for them and Medicaid expansion can do that. And at the end of the day, getting people who were there constituents that disagreed on a lot of issues, we all agreed that they needed to be more mental health. We all agreed that we needed rural hospital doors to stay open. So the Republican legislature ended up passing and I signed Medicaid expansion.

“And now 700,000 more North Carolinians have health insurance. I'll never forget handing”

Penny the very first Medicaid expansion health insurance card. There were tears in her eyes and admittedly

tears in mind because she was finally getting health insurance. And I went around that room and talked to so many working to our Carolinians who like having two or three jobs, a lot of small businesses can't afford health insurance for their employees. They were going to chance to do that. And we did that in a bipartisan way. It was hard to get there. It took years to get there because a lot of partisan politics was standing in the way. But when you try to navigate through all of that,

we all want good health care. We all want good education for our children. We expect clean air

I know you've been doing a lot of work in Alzheimer's, Ben. It's important for us to be all we all want those things regardless of what party we're in. We've got to find a way to navigate through all of the partisan vitriol. And I just think a lot of people are yearning for decency

“as much as possible. I mean, when you're in the middle of these races, you have to fight to”

get elected. It's really tough and it gets ugly. But at the end of the day, when it comes time for policy, we all need to try to find a way toward consensus. And I've tried to do that through my

entire career and hope to do that in Washington. Never thought I wanted to go to Washington,

but I'm ready to go now, taking the things that I've learned. So right now, if you opened up your social media feed or my social media feed, it's a lot of yelling. It's a lot of screaming, right? And it is a political divide that I honestly don't know if I want to cross that bridge and meet people halfway someday, right? Yeah, now get it. Right? So how do we, how do you do that? How do we, how do we heal? Not just in the Senate, but in as ideologically.

Like ideologically, because there are times like, you just did some your party that you represent,

just did something really terrible and they're sticking up for it. So I don't want to go halfway on that.

Well, the, the problem with social media, it's the worst place in the world to try to leave consensus because people have, you know, you can control who you talk with the algorithms, essentially controlled by billionaires when you get right down to it, control what you see. So often people are not exposed to any other side. And the, on the only times they are exposed to it, is someone who is coming at them personally and demigrating them personally because they don't agree

with it. And if we're going to leave it to social media to pull us together and try to solve things,

I don't think we can. There are a lot of people who are able to pull away from it and who are

“working outside of that. And I think, I tell people, let's try not to get sucked into it.”

Then what we could talk a long time about young people. I mean, you guys have kids and the influence of social media on on kids and what ought to be expected of people who are doing these things. We need a lot of protection for our children right now that that we don't have. But I think you have to move out of social media and get people out of social media, meeting face to face in other ways in order to try to find consensus. It's not going to be easy. That's for sure.

It's some of the worst things you will ever see on the end of it. And a lot of people that really aren't even real people, they are there to foam it. We know. We're familiar with sex government. I don't, and you just said the same thing, I don't believe we're actually as divided as the internet tells you we are. Because the bots, there are people that are paid to do it, there are people that are inspired to do it and do a hundred accounts are allowed and meet

an awful and they're anonymous. But there aren't as many as them of them, I think. I think it's going to be interesting because I think we found a good sound bite of the governor

“Cooper saying you need to get off social media really. We're going to put on social media.”

We're going to post it on social media and I don't know if it's for the hold on its family. It's just for the hold. Yeah, just for the hold. It's very wholesome, very wholesome. Especially, mostly. Give me some priorities. I know you've got priorities for North Carolina, but I just want to speak to a broader audience. Give us some of your priorities for our country over the next six years. Let's see you get elected. Well, I know you have a lot of

national and international fans and let me brag on you guys just a minute. Being governor of North Carolina, we are so proud of him and Penn and all that they've done, it's just been special and we're grateful for the work they're doing in the community and we're grateful for the entertainment that they provide us. So thank you for that. But we are the richest country in the world. We ought to find a way where everybody can have affordable quality health care.

I mean, that is a basic moral obligation in my opinion and I think that you can gauge the morality

to work on bolstering early childhood education and our public schools and we need to work on care for those who are reaching the end of their lives and investing in these caregivers. And we have to find a way to do that right now. The tax breaks continue to go to the very wealthiest among us and the corporations. And there is a better way to do this. And I believe that we need to make those investments in health care. I also want to stepping back a minute. The frames

of our constitution envision checks and balances, a legislative body and executive body, a judicial body. And what's happening right now, there's a lot of seeding of constitutional authority to the executive branch by the legislative branch. And I would like to go to Washington to work with Republicans to try to take back that constitutional authority, for example, on trade and tariffs, on declaration of war, on spending money in the budget that hadn't been appropriated by

“Congress. I think all of that is going to be really important. And I have a lot of Republicans who”

agree with me on that that the checks and balances that we have in our democracy and this the greatest

country in the world is critical to the survival of our democracy. So I want to go and work on

that as well. And I think finally, stuff just cost too much for people right now. I see that behind you. Like it just cost too much and with rent and utilities and child care and health care for so many families, they're just too much month left at the end of the money. And there are a lot of people looking up the middle class now and thinking they're never get there. They're people in the middle class who are barely hanging on young people. I got a lot of young people working in this campaign.

They don't think they can buy a house any time in the future. And that's not right. We've got to get back to making sure that the American dream is available for everybody. And I think that that's something that all of us want. So let's select leaders who are working to get people those opportunities. And I look forward to this. So we do call this podcast the laugh lines. We do talk about a lot of issues that come up as we age. But at the foundation, we do like to laugh.

“Governor Cooper, what makes you laugh? When you need to just get away from the vitriol, what makes you”

laugh? So I'm a good dad joke guy. Oh good. So you know, I'm a good dad joke guy. My kids make a lot of fun of me. But I had them make for me a little thing that I carry around of them doing a three stew just hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. That's the kind of dumb thing that I like.

And I like comedies, like science-filled. I love Andy Griffiths. I've always loved that. And you know,

just just being with my family and all of us making fun of each other. And you can get a good laugh from you guys, Penn with your weird arrows. Yeah. It's pretty, pretty special with what you can do. I saw wicked the other day. Kim, you were so funny. He's doing wicked. He's doing wicked. He's doing wicked. The green face at the end was pretty, pretty, pretty terrifying. And it's so funny, Governor Cooper, because his parents never really understood what it was that we were doing here. Like,

hey, what it was always like, do you need money? Until the day he died. And he had dementia, but at the time

he died. He was like, I'm gonna wrap you a check. I'm like, you're not on a program anymore. He like he would always call like if local news he thought he thought local news was like being in private equity. And it's not, it's not. Well, you both did that. And you did it well, but then it was not.

“To do really great, really great things. And I think your dad knows now that you have really,”

really made it. That's, that's for sure. There's just so many things that you guys have done that every day families can identify with. And you do it in a such a humorous way. And you know,

because my kids excoriate me in so many ways. They make fun of my father-in-axe and the way I talk.

Oh, it did pretty funny. So I have a challenge for you. I have a challenge for you. I want you to take what you just complimented us on, which is like some self-deprecation and some self-awareness. And I wanted you to take that up to Capitol Hill. And people do not be afraid to be flawed

“and to be human. I think that'll help bring people together. And I have many, many reasons to be humble.”

I assure you that. That is for sure. And you know, what we do is a little different, right? We have a podcast for content creators. We exist in the social media space. What advice do you have for us, other content creators, other people who are existing at an unprecedented time,

because normally we wouldn't talk politics. What kind of advice? How do you think we should move forward?

I understand the hesitance, not at all politics. But we're in a perilous position right now in our country, the divisiveness, the vitriol. I'm deeply concerned about where we are as a country. And I think it's okay to talk about some of these things in the context of issues that, you know, we need to expect Washington to deal with, you know, talking about the issues of education that we have. Talk about the fact that things are cost into much for people and what's causing that.

You don't necessarily have to get all involved in the R versus D and the even candidates. But raising the level of consciousness of these issues and what's happening right now. The fact, you know, one of the reasons I'm going to Washington, because you know there's 700,000 people I talked about, all of that's at risk now, because of the one big beautiful bill that was passed with the cuts that were made already,

people who had been on the Affordable Care Act. There's 22 percent of them last this year,

because it couldn't afford the premiums. And a lot of the rest of them who got health care under the Affordable Care Act had to get hired deductibles and it's going to cost them a lot more, because they couldn't afford the premiums otherwise. And just talk about these issues that are affecting people every single day to raise the consciousness of it. And I know last lines as these are not subjects that are funny. But I do think that as you engage in in other ways

“that now is the time where we all need to step up and do what we can to, I think provide a course”

correction for our country while we still can. And look, I'm optimistic. You know, when things are on the verge of destruction a lot of times, you have an opportunity to recreate them even better than they were before. And let's face it. A lot of government programs have done some good, but they were blooded and bureaucratic and didn't do all the things that they need to do. We can take this opportunity now that a lot of things have been destroyed and baked them more

effective, efficient, leverage technology and AI and bring Republicans in and say, hey, let's give the taxpayers a better deal here. Let's create a better FEMA to make it work better when disasters occur. I think we've got a real opportunity to do that. And somehow you like me who's been on the front line of these issues and have seen how things work on the ground. I think I can go up and contribute to solutions at the end of the day. Governor Cooper. Thank you, old friend.

It has been an honor to hear you talk and to watch you lead our state. And it just, it felt good talking to you. You know, I want to be like Chris Farley, when he used to do his

“bit on Saturday Night Live. Remember when? Remember when? Yeah, I'll take that all the time.”

He's like, man, I, you know, I, I wanted to say, remember when do you guys play Charlie Barrens and his wife's sick of all. So that to me was funny because we, my wife and I watched Charlie and we watched you and that, that was, that was really, that was really great. I can, I can do a lot of those with you guys. You're, you're fantastic. All I know is, I'm just going to replay this interview and all the nice things you say about me for having a bad day because this is

very good for my ego. This is very good for my ego. Well, good luck out there. We appreciate your time. Maybe have me back some day soon. We'd love it. We'd love for that. I love that. Okay, take care. Thank you. I know you're busy. It's great to see you again. Same. See you later. More on this after these works. So the interviews over. So our producer Anne Marie Tapki, congratulations.

Anne Marie played Charlie Barren's wife. I thought it was just more partner.

is married to Anne Marie Tapki and I just want to congratulate you. You know, I don't know how we're

“going to break into the seed. No. Sorry, Steve. You've been replaced. How are you doing?”

I'm doing great. Were you impressed with his knowledge of like bots and algorithms and stuff like that? I echo that I don't believe we're as divided as the internet makes us think. I think there's a lot of loud bots out there. And I am, listen, my job is on social media. We pair a mortgage because of the work we do on social media. I do think that there's a lot of good that can come from it, but I'm not an idiot. I honestly hearing, I was reminded of all the work your dad did in our community like

urban ministries, which is an incredible organization that like cross, you know, the religious

spectrum here, just all and, you know, all fates and the food bank spreading that to Eastern North Carolina. I'm like, I should, instead of just opening my phone and being filled with rage, I just need to go freaking volunteer somewhere. I need to, and it would make you feel better. And it would make me feel better. And I mean, we donate to the food bank. We donate to all these people,

“but I probably just need to show up and serve. And that would, and I think if we all just like”

put the phones down for a beat roller sleeves up and just got to work in our own community, I just think that it's, we're not all feel a lot better. Yeah, beautiful. Okay, so that was a very

series conversation. But now we have to get back to the not so serious stuff. I mentioned the other

day that with my adult money, I can buy cookie cakes. And I have been buying cookie cakes. And we get an email from Anne, Kim mentioned, along the lines of when you're adult. You can spend money, money on things like cookie cake, which inspired both Anne and her brother to buy one last week. So you inspired someone to go buy a cookie cake? So her brother, they, they live in different states. And he had to go to three different stores to find a cookie cake. So the theory is that our

mentioning of cookie cakes is just put a run on cookie cakes. So now time for our segment that is not yet been sponsored, pens, crumbs of knowledge. It says nibbles of knowledge. That's so weird, but sounds weird to say. Okay. But this is where Sam turned pen into a cookie and he tells you the three things that he has learned from this episode. I want to name this the way the cookie crumbles.

“Yes, that's what I was raised saying. That's the way the cookie crumbles. So like,”

here's the way the cookie crumbles. You don't have to put my name in it. This is bigger than me. But he still needs to be a cookie. And the segment is open for sponsorship by the big cookie corporations for America. The leap that you just took from I got one email to we are causing a run on cookies in America is what am I favorite things I've heard of as a kid? That was a car who is triple jump right there. He made, he made me feel really good about myself. You are

feeling some you right now. Here's how the cookie crumbles. Is that feel good? Yeah, okay. Now I'm a cookie. I don't want to be overly political. Try to be down the middle for this for the for the cookie. Okay. Number one, teaching Sunday school is hard. He mentioned that briefly just in passing that he's spent two and a half decades teaching Sunday school and he was exhausted. Do you remember the pit sweat that I would come out with? Penn comes to music for the little kids. And it was

the best for the people that were teaching Sunday school would they got a break. They got a break. Yeah. And they were like, keep singing. Keep singing. But he would have just like heards of kids coming out in and out for an hour. And he, it's hard. So the way that Sunday school is set up.

First of all, it's made out. It's love and volunteers and all that stuff. But it's kids who get

to be away from their parents and they don't have to be at church. So they feel a certain sense of, all right. It's go time. And they're high on like sugar cookies and lemon. They, they give them so much sugar. And then, and then they're like, oh, well, let's go see Mr. Holdardis. And I listen, I keep doing it because I love it. And I love, I love being able to spread joy in any way that I can. And this does ultimately feel like I spread joy. I do it a little differently.

I bring my guitar a sing-like different versions of song. I taught kids how to sing in a round. Yes. But I like literally, I've done. You can't do anything about Sunday. I have performed in front of thousands of people. My videos are in front of millions of people. Those kids cause my armpits to spew, sweat, just guard in his for like 20 minutes. So I'm with him on teaching Sunday school is hard. Number two, he just kept saying a lot of stuff about

several months, especially as we go into like another political cycle of at least trying to stand

“in other people's shoes and understand what they are going through, whether I agree with them”

or not. We learn this from Carlos Whitaker. I need to be reminded that I've got to stand in other people's shoes. That's all I do as an empath. It's hard. It's hard. I need to probably be more present and realize that I wake up thinking like, you're in other people's shoes. You wake up in other people's shoes. I wake up in other people's shoes and I feel this very dire consequences and I have like, okay, I'm safe. That was a little deeper of a conversation.

Is it still okay that I'm a cookie? Yes, you're cookie. You're a cookie. So we're still a cookie.

You were still a cookie. And number three, it doesn't matter what you do or say or try to tell

me to do or to say, you and see Duke will find a way into this conversation. Because it was a top one memory for my son. Top one. He said it was unironically the best night of his life. And of course, Governor Cooper brought it up. I got my socks on. Now it's time to head to the last line. It's so important that we make people feel seen and feel heard. And we did a podcast with Jennifer

Wallace about her book on mattering. And we got so much feedback. And we got two calls, two different calls, with very unique perspectives. Thank you, miss. And just this watching the pretty shit that matter with Jennifer Wallace episode. By the end of the episode, that's kind of we'll speak about Mr. Rogers and how he would do the same for us. We were five, four, and we

“watched Mr. Rogers, you tell us, what do we matter? I think Jennifer Wallace's time is doing the same”

thing, the stress melts, now that we've grown up, and a more complex world that we live in, and that would have solved it with the book and spread the word. I love that. And so, funny, since we put the podcast out, I've been more intentional about texting and reaching out to friends. And now, because we recorded the podcast a couple of weeks ago, it came out. And now they're like, oh, it's because you had this off the run. I'm like, no, no, no, you actually, you matter.

Oh, I get it. So you texted, then the podcast came out, and then they felt like you were just doing it. Well, so I'm doing the same thing. But all you know to have also been doing is noticing when people do it for me more, right? Like, I think sometimes I'm like, oh, okay, they're texting, let's move on. But like, now I realize, okay, I don't do that very well. They're doing it. They're reaching out. Good for them. Okay, and this next call from Jill. So from Jersey, I have to say,

I absolutely love love, love, Jennifer Wilde this morning. I think she's like, my news therapist, my new favorite self-help person. Something that wasn't talked about, which is pretty interesting

“that I learned myself is that you should want to be friends with people who you matter to.”

So in college, I was so worried about being friends with the quote unquote popular crew. I totally just didn't even see enough of the people that really cared about me and said that I mattered. I kind of just like blew them off to the wayside. And now as an adult, it's so important for me to be friends with the people who I nire to. So that was just something that I really brought out of this. And something that we all need to really think about, you want to be friends

or people who you matter to, you're not only who, um, matter to you. What a beautiful way to talk about something that everyone has been through. Yeah. For me, I was in high school. I wanted to be friends with the in crowd. And then college, I just, I, that was less of a priority to me. And I, I think it's why I had so much more fun in college. It is so hard to make friends as an adult. Yeah. And and to truly find your people. And even as an adult, they're like popular people. There,

I mean, there are, there are like groups that are very active socially and always put posting on social

media. I don't have foam. So I'm okay not being in those groups. But I know people who are sad with, they're not included. So it's hard. Find the people who you matter to. I want to finish by saying that, um, it's, it's all, I mean, it was really cool hearing from Governor Cooper. I know that, listen, I know he's a politician. I know that he is, um, he's, he's running for one particular side of what's going on. I loved hearing some of this stuff in the middle. And then this is just

going to be me being selfish. Like, I just loved, like, hearing him talk about my dad and I had

about that ability to reach across the aisle that directly is impacted by what you were just talking about like getting out and finding people and speaking to them face to face. I remember one time

we met, we were in the process of moving down to North Carolina. And first of all, the original

house that we were supposed to get fell through because it was like a money pit. So we had to come, we had to live with your parents for like a month to six weeks when we first moved down.

“And everybody was like, oh my, you have to move in with your in laws and Lola was a baby like a year”

old. It was the best six weeks of my life. Yeah. First, like your dad made breakfast every morning. Your mom did laundry. They'd take the baby on a walk. They're like, it would be, it would mean so much to us if we could just take her for the day. I'm like, you're welcome. So first of all, it was the best six weeks of my life. But I remember we went out to lunch. We went to foster

his market, which is like my favorite. And we driven separately. And you and I are pulling out.

And then your dad's pulling out. And he's rolled on his window and he's talking to somebody who if they're not unhoused, they're they're struggling, visibly struggling in this person's asking for money. Your dad puts this man in his car and drives away. And your dad didn't have a car phone. So which by the way, he called it a car phone. And so yeah, the day he died. Yeah. And so we were very worried. Just what was going to happen. And he drove this person. I think was it to urban

ministry somewhere where there was like jobs resources. There's rent resources. There's so he drove this person to an organization to get help. But I was like, hey, we can't just put strangers in your car. And he goes, I have faith in people. I have faith that people want this help and the faith that people are trying the best they can. And that is just such a lesson that was just such a

“lesson to me. And so I agree. That's why I missed your dad so much right now. So that that directive”

to get off of social media is in a direct conflict with our business model. But be also something that would be, I would imagine tough for you to do fully. If it comes down to like putting the phone down and going to see new perspectives from like not just from people that you know or that you agree with. But but from everyone and like taking the opportunity to walk with them. I'm not saying it's hard just for you. I'm saying for you those of you who are watching something.

I don't think you totally have to kick the cell phone and get rid of it totally. I think that I have time limits on my phone. I've been busted through those lately. And so that has impacted my metal health. I just need to rewire my algorithm to be puppy videos. Just that. And like pimple popping. Like if I could just do that. I mean there's plenty of them in there because like you that we have

“the tick-tock algorithm is like holding his family. We don't have a personal one. So time I come on”

there. It's just puppies. Yeah. You know what I want from my 50th birthday. I'm about to turn 50 soon. And I should have asked for it ahead of time. I just want to go to a farm where there's just golden retrievered puppies. And I just want to sit in a field and want to have golden retrievers crawl all over you crawl all over me. Okay. And puppies would be great. I older dogs find. I just feel like the world would be better if we could all just sit in a field with golden retrievers.

I just wrote this down like I was going to research it but you're going to get 75 emails from this package. I would get on a plane for it. Oh dear. I truly would. I would get on a plane for this but there has to be something in North Carolina where I could just go sit in a field. And just be surrounded by puppies. And doesn't have to be specifically golden retrievers. I just have a golden retriever and I'm obsessed with her. So it's your 50th. That's for something like if you want golden retrievers

ask for golden retrievers. Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for joining us on this like wild path that we're on. And I hope you stand social media to watch us. But if you need to protect your mental health, I get it. Yeah. Either way, try to supplement it with some real face-to-face time with people. Yeah. Ready for credits? Yeah. Let's do it. Lafline's is written and produced by Kim Holdernis, Penn Holdernis. And Mrs. Charlie Barrens and Marie Tapki with original music by Penn

Holdernis. It is filmed edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by Acast. As always,

we'd love to hear from you. Please write to us at podcast at the Holdernisfamily.com or leave us a voicemail. Three, two, three, three, six, four, three, nine, two, nine. And we will talk to you soon on Lafline's.