Ep 627 - No-Nog (feat. Joe Alto)

- Fireed up. - Fireed up. - Joe Alto, how are you doing brother? What's up man? - Whoa, good morning.

- Good afternoon. Joe Alto, good morning, we met online. So we met and I'll just say it. We, you message me and we linked up based on, not looking at porn.

- Yeah, by the way, every rock question. - Yeah.

“- How crazy did you think I was when I sent you those emails?”

- Not that crazy. - Okay. - Okay, I didn't think you were that crazy. It's like crazy messages, you just know when you see 'em, you know what I mean?

People want crazy internet people, it's usually kind of scattered. I saw that and I was like, "Pull shit, it's kind of sick." So I didn't know, I get crazy vibes. Usually there's like, 'cause you don't see every message.

But they'll usually be like 19 messages before those ones. Some in all caps and you go, "Yeah, fuck, yeah." - Crazy guy. - Yeah. - But, no, I just saw it and I was like,

"Damn, that's kind of sick." So, yeah. - So, yeah. - And again, just to like, you know, I'm sure you've known from listening,

but it's like, for me, I have mixed views on the whole, well, let's say like the approach, the online approach or, you know, people taking a real life of like, you're either a porn consumer

or you're a non-con-pork consumer. A porn consumer is very simple. Non-pork consumers kind of complex 'cause it's like, there's like complete no-fap over here. Which I'm like, that's just impossible.

- Sure. - Right, if you want, I find it to be utterly impossible for myself. And then there's like, no porn at all, then there's no masturbation.

And there's like hard mode, no faps off, you know, that's the way you're aware of all that stuff.

- So, I always, for me, I always try to not take

a super dogmatic approach of that makes sense where it's like, if you fucking do it, you're done, you're a piece of shit. - Yeah. - But, recognizing that, I'm like,

I really want to get this out of my life. And I have, thank God, for now. But, yeah, please, please. But I know I've done a couple, you know, like hotel weekend trips by myself

are the absolute ultimate test. So, I've passed a couple of those, but yeah.

“So, I want to tell me about, so you have an app, right?”

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You work for an app? - Yeah. - I work for an app, tell me what you're doing. - What is it called again?

- Relay. - Relay health. - Yeah, and it's a porn addiction recovery app, right? So, yeah, the guy started it, probably, I think it's been five years now.

We've been up and running out. How many people have used it? - How many people have used it? I know right now we have about 4,000 in the app right now. - Nice.

- More than that have used it in the history of the app, but we have a pretty good user base. And it's mostly guys. - Yeah, and I'll say this too, 'cause you do whenever, every time around the,

let's say masturbation, porn discussion, whenever you're like anti or like, "Hey, maybe not the best move." You do get these guys, I'm sure you've dealt with them, who are like, "Oh, yeah, dude,

"porn-fucking rules, you guys are being babies." And I just want to stage for the record. Totally fair, you can do that if you want, but that is the male equivalent to like one girl, who's like, "My vibrator is kind of like,

"it's kind of like in the lame." You're like, "Yeah, my vibrator is like, "okay, like enough of that." - Yeah, no, absolutely. - And it's, come on, we don't want to hear about it.

- Yeah, I want to bring back, my dad used to always be like,

"If you mentioned porn, you'd be like, "what do you fucking weirdo?" - Same here. - Oh, my. - Like, this is genuine threat.

- No, to this day, my dad is a, I've asked him bluntly, I go dead if you ever, it was like your history with porn. He's like, "Never done it, I'm a man." (laughing)

- So where I swear to God, my dad's been like, "Never jacked up." - Oh, that's so sad. - Never looked at porn. - Well, to be, and it's fucking gris,

'cause he's like, "I got your mom." - Yeah. (laughing) - Okay, okay. - You.

- That's the worst. - Yeah, no, but that's like the raw of my dad's, the obvious to God, what he's told me. Also, though, back then, there was a barrier. If you wanted porn back then,

I don't know how your, my dad's like in his 70s. - Yeah, my dad's 65. - So if you want to porn, they had to like go to like, through the old culture stores.

But also, there was like a bunch of guys trying to blow you the whole time, if you wanted to get porn. Like it was for real, if you wanted to get porn, like porn shops, was associated with, like, underground sexual roast.

- Headness, yeah, that's kind of the deal. - Like, are you even around there? It's like, yo, what the fuck are you doing? - Yeah, I was going to suck your dick. - Yeah, like, yeah.

- You can't get it. - Especially back then, it didn't have sex ahead. - Yeah, no. - Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, no, it was always an adventure.

It's an adventure. - It was different. It was different. I'll never forget, my dad.

“This is like really bad, but I remember,”

he went to buy, there was this guy who like, fixed lawnmowers. And the guy happened, he would sell porn, like VHS is all this stuff. He was selling my crazeless.

So my dad went there to get his lawnmowers. We always were like, yeah, right? Did your buy a poison, I swear to fuck, if I got him, yeah, fucking porn. But he was there.

I got this guy, he's buying it, watch a VHS is off me. He's trying to fucking watch him.

“And he asked me if he can watch him in my basement.”

I'm like, man, get the fuck out of here. The dude comes out. It was a dad from one of the girls in our grade school, like 23 kids in our class. It was a small Catholic school.

I remember, he was telling, I remember all the dads laughing. We're at it like an eighth grade dad. They're all laughing. And I was like, what do you guys laughing at?

They're like, I forgot about freedom. And then later he told me he's like, yeah, we sold all the laws of dad. Trying to watch VHS is with the guy who fixed our lawnmowers. I'm like, bam, it's growth.

But again, it's like, to your point, it's with the app. It's different for us. It's more, it's everywhere. It's where we're completely tapped into it. It's a different thing.

We were basically all, like, crack babies with porn.

But you know, we got born into this, you know, we kind of hooked in. So how, in terms of the app, what's like the guiding philosophy? - Yeah, guiding philosophy would be,

you don't have a porn problem, you have a pain problem. A lot of guys have a difficult time, even understanding what that is. Like, it's just difficult. Maybe you have some conscious moment

where you do realize that, yeah, I'm using this as a baby blanket. But that's just also like a very difficult endeavor to deal with by yourself. So yeah, it's like you have a pain problem.

You've associated at some point in your history with porn. Yeah, you start off and it's great. It's innocent. You start looking at it around whatever. 11 or 12 years old and you use it for whatever purposes,

right, like I said, 'cause it's-- - Make a checks. It really does start as simple as, like, make a checks. - Make a checks, you're not going to see a make a check when you're 12 for quite a long time.

- Oh, luckily. - You're going to show you what you really shouldn't. - Yeah, not gonna, would. - Yeah. - How is that one guy, though, in the eighth grade

where you're just like, holy shit? Like, yeah, that. But that's just that one guy.

- Yeah, I was never that guy.

- No. - You probably weren't either. - No, that guy probably also had pubes when he was like, yeah, four, so. - But yeah, yeah.

- No, but so you start looking at it when you're young and then at some point in your maturation process as a young man, whatever type of disappointment that you go through, right, it could be in sports, it can be with the ladies, it can be with, you know,

get a bad grade, whatever, really like simple shit. - Yeah, but you just go back, you know, you get enough on your paper and you feel like shit and you know, porn's gonna make you feel good. So you go.

And then you just unlock this crazy circuitry and you're brain that it connects any type of, like you're literally training yourself, you're like a dog, you're training yourself to associate pain with porn

and it gets unconscious. And then you have all these like 35-year-old guys who have very stressful lives, right, like we all do. And now it's so unconscious, you have a bad day at work, maybe it's the muscle memory of driving home,

you get into an argument with your wife, you notice the cavity, all the shit, you just go to porn. - Porn time, porn, porn, porn, porn. - Yeah, well it's funny too 'cause it's like,

“you know, your parents, I remember like, dude,”

we got caught with porn a couple times in our house and they'd be like, what the fuck? They'd be so mad, I remember being a kid being like, dude, I wish they'd lax up about this shit, like what the fuck is their problem?

- There's a kid you're going like, no guys, this shit fucking rules, like I don't think you guys understand, like, this is the best, yeah. But you'd have it, I grew up, it was like, there was literally like 16 kids on the properties,

meeting my cousin's families right next to each other and like a VHS would come with someone would get one and it would fucking cycle through and everyone would be like, I remember knowing there was a VHS across the street of my cousin's house and just being like,

I wouldn't see it for like five days, but I'd be like, yes, yes, you're thinking about it. - So, fucking amp, yeah, exactly. - But like you're saying it's like that young, during those young, formative stages,

you're just like, you don't realize how geek you know. You're an adult and you're like, you're like,

I can calm myself now, it's like, you didn't always have that.

So it's like, most adults probably don't even still today, but it's like, I barely do myself, but it's like, it's a kid when something hits you, it fucking rocks you, you're getting so upset, someone's like, you fucking loser, you're like,

it fucking kills you and you have, you have the porn, the porn, the porn, and then, you know, finally, I remember college and it's like, I can download as much porn as I fucking want on my computer. This is this shit and then, you know,

it goes on and on and on and yeah, it's just really, I think you do personally me. I've hit a point where I remember just thinking like, yeah, I just don't, it'd be nice to not deal with that. - But you get bored of it at some point.

“- Yeah, you start, you're like, honestly,”

and I think that's part of it. I know at least for me it was. I don't know if it's boredom, that might not be the best word, but yeah, you're just like, what the fuck am I doing? - Well, yeah, yeah, that's a good distinction.

It's not necessarily boredom, it's just kind of like, man, how much longer, it's just, you know, I'm giving this to this fucking thing. But again, then you look at the porn industry as like an apparatus and it's like, it's really sad.

You can say, I don't even want to think about that shit,

let's just say mostly women, although the guy's stories, I watch a lot of software on a belly, so I watch a lot of stories of people like in the, you know, porn industry and all this stuff.

And it's almost always very sad origin story,

where it's like a girl with sexually abused, or this, or that, that family life, yeah. - Always pretty bad. And then the guy, their count of male counterparts has never exactly great either for the most part.

So it's like, you have these people. And it's, this might be a bad way to put about, this is how like my mind kind of like, you know, organizes it. It's like, you have these people who are like, you know,

in some way, have called a very raw deal in society. Like, imagine a beggar who's like, beggars usually are beggars because they're just, all the shit got fucked up in their lives and now the beggars.

And like, and if you walk by them and just fucking jerk off on them, it's like, that's kind of how I started feeling. - It's like, they're not obviously beggars.

“- They've been dejected by very important parts”

of their life in a very intimate way, and they get fed into this machinery that very clearly rips in a part. - Yeah. - Female porn stars do not age well. - No.

- There's been like four, and the only reason they did is because they became movie stars, and they got to like get out of porn life. But the people in there are being grinded to a pulp in like a way that's hard to comprehend.

And then I always just felt doubly disgusting being like,

and just jerking all, it was just like, I can't get to a point where you're like dude, I just, again, it's not like a powdered wig or I'm kind of being like evil. It's just like, I totally get it.

I just man I'd love to not have that on my conscience, or just like you were saying with like, masking pain problems for being like, I'm gonna go fucking jerk off now. - Well yeah, and I think, I don't know.

I mean, there's obviously still activities that I still like to do, that I started when I was a kid, I guess still like sports. I still, you know, some other shit. But there's also like a lot of things

“that it is a kid that I don't do anymore,”

'cause I realize, I don't know, just you get over it. - Not kid, yeah, I'm not a kid. - It's like a simple, yeah, it's not a kid. - Saying porn, you're in a way, saying porn is for kids. (laughing)

It's a kid, it's a kid, it's a kid. - Like frosty flakes, yeah. - Just like. (laughing) - I know what you mean, yeah, yeah, it's baby shit.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you get to the boys for babies. (laughing) - Oh, kind of this, it is, it is, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a true for that one response. (laughing) - But again, it gets frosted, it's like,

it's like, it gets frosted, it's like that, it gets frosted. - But it's true, but I get what you're saying, it's,

and again, the problem is, the problem is with this,

it's not, it can come off as a whole year than the althing, and it's like, bro, anything, but. - And that's, you hear that with a lot of the guys who are, you know, pretty, I don't know if it's like staunchly, but yeah, they'll, they'll make the religious argument,

they're like, no, porn's fine. Like the only reason why you don't think porn's fine is because, yes, you grew up Catholic or you grew up. - Yeah, it's all like you'll, you have access to it. You'll, and blah, blah, blah.

- Yeah, and we both grew up Catholic. - Mm-hmm. - And you got that, you definitely got that to some degree. - Yeah, I remember turning off on Easter and being like, I'm going to hell. (laughs)

- You wanna talk about the day to the game. - Yeah, we're all, if you're a porn user, the Lord forgave you, forgave, you know, he died for your sand on your own. - You just decided that. - I don't understand that part, I was just like, the guy died,

but there's God, he's gonna punish my ass, and I'm gonna fucking hell fucking done. - But here's, he's still my, he's still my, when are you, when are you gonna get to the prelegates of my mat? - He's that one time jacked off on Easter and you were 13.

- That was it. - So I would gladly say, take me, my back going down,

“here's the thing, here's the thing with that though.”

And people go, "Oh, let's just access Catholic guilt, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh." It's like, okay, I hear you 'cause it, you know, but then it's like, I feel like a lot of people who would be against that tend to, not always, but tend to be of a more like politically liberal kind of,

- Yeah, I think that's the thing, yeah, I think that's. - And who's more guilt, they're the guiltyest of all. - So it's like, dude, don't come at me for my guilt, we'll talk guilt, so at good point. - And it's like, maybe you should feel guilt.

That's, that's a good old question, that's another thing, dude. There's, I, yeah, I think we probably should feel more guilt. - Especially what you have, here's the thing, too. - Well, it's kids and you have a wife. - Exactly.

- They're, you actually should feel guilty about things. - If you're in the bathroom at night, jerking off, that's an understandable response, you guys, I think I'm fucking missing them all. - You're throwing one in the toilet for hours ago,

you were literally just telling your kid to take a shit on that toilet, it's weird, it's weird, it's a weird thing. - And if they walk in God forbid, kids can have dreams, kids can wake up at your fucked. - You've literally altered their life trajectory,

and I would say a negative way, unless you convince them it was all just a dream,

- Don't tell your mom. - Yeah, I'll fall down by your mom.

- So yeah, no, no, no, that's always the thing

that strikes me weird, is like, guys are usually, usually jacking off in their house, right? - Merried men, yep, and it is weird, you associate all these memories with your house, or you do things with your kids in your house, right?

Like I said, like you give them a bath, and then in that same bathroom, you're fucking, you know, yeah, that's weird. And you should feel guilty about that.

“- Yeah, that's fair, I think you should.”

- That's not ideal, yeah, it's not ideal. - You know, I don't think you, and here's the deal, that's different than being like your complete piece of shit, but you're not a complete piece of shit, you're a little piece of shit, right?

- Oh my god, yeah, a little bit, but, no, no, that's the thing that a lot of, you know, guys like me and you who grew up in that space and the Catholic space, yeah, you just think that you're a piece of shit, but that's not even,

I'm not gonna get into the whole, like, theology, but that's not even necessarily what the church says, it's like you're not necessarily going to hell, you're not, like, yeah, and that's the thing, yeah, we talked about it, it's like,

a lot of the resistance is like a good bad binary, where it's like, if you do this thing, you're bad, if you do this, you're good, that's such a shitty way of approach.

- Yeah, it's more like, here's what I'm up to right now,

I could be a little bit better, what's some of the stuff I have to shed, and dude, I will say it's like, you know, again, just like the in a marriage, if you're a guy who's by himself, you're young,

you're trying to figure things out, it's like, yeah, it's not, obviously it's not the end of the world, if you've rubbed one out, so you can fall asleep. - That's the, I agree.

- I really, I honest to you guys, and it's hard working in this space, you get a lot of, like you were kind of listing out a little bit of go, like you have your purest, it's like never do this.

- Yeah. - And like, there is, because there obviously is a difference between being married and being single. - Yeah. - There is.

“I think why it's good to try to shore this up now”

when you're a single guy's, because you're gonna, so many guys think that when they get married. - Well, I would say like a lot, I mean, especially the religious people I know,

a lot of them think when they get married, this is just gonna be like the magic pill, that makes them stop, and it's like, no, you're just gonna do it fucking more, right? 'Cause being married, you're more stressed when you're married,

you're more stressed when you have kids, so if anything, you're like more of a pain in the ass. - Yep. - The down payment on the house. - Yeah.

- That's exactly right. - That's exactly right. - This is bullshit. - Yep. - It's not supposed to be this way.

- Exactly. - Is it toilet? - Yeah, it's supposed to be. - Do you weigh him? - We're doing it.

- Yeah, she sleep and monitor her breathing. - Yeah, that's exactly right. - Exactly right. - Yeah, man. So like, yeah, you just introduced more,

yeah, you just introduced more stress in your life.

“So I think it is good for the guys who are single”

to try to get this to the bottom of the house. - Because it's really dude. It's the fucking worst to bring that into a marriage. I did, and it fucking sucked. - Oh yeah, it was terrible.

- No, and this is the thing. Again, my point is more so, it's like, yeah, it's not like, okay, there's this, you know, body, like, looking over you being like bad, good, bad, good, 'cause I get the urge

to be like, fuck you man, I don't, I can just not subscribe to this shit at all. And it's like, for sure, you can do that. My argument is long term, you can, like I did it. When I was younger, being like the stuff's bullshit,

I don't give a fucking shit. And then you get older and you're like, yeah, it's something to that I think. - Yeah, it's actually decent. - Well, it's just like a,

it's almost like a spirit that controls you. - Yeah, right, it's like, it's just, this is controlling me. It's taking up so much of my mental bandwidth. I'm constantly thinking about it when I'm at work, right?

I'm thinking about, oh man, I can't wait to like get home. It's just this like vibration throughout your day. And it really does grip you. And I think, you know, especially like in all these, like, I don't know, I'm kind of like lame,

like modern male movements or like I wanna be independent, right? I don't want shit to, I want to be like, I wanna be above all that, right, like. And yeah, those same guys that were probably also,

not even realizing how much porn controls their life. - Yeah. - Or the pornographic in general, right, is controlling their lives.

So just like I said, always constantly thinking about it

or, you know, even just like, you know, anytime you see a good looking chick walkby, you're just like, you're good, you're good. - That's my brother had put it back. - He's like, even if you're not looking at porn,

you can still be good. - Yeah, absolutely. - Or you're on Instagram, you're scrolling. - Yeah, you're scrolling. - My brother claims if you're scrolling, you're gooning.

- Yeah. - If you're sitting there and you're in the scroll, you're goon. - You're gone on orgasmic goon. - You're just goon.

- Yeah, you're completely just like, - Aw, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're mindless. - Yeah, and it's like the babes are coming. You know what you're doing. - Yeah, that's where you catch the cage

and you're fucking hitting your little switch and you're going, who are the fucking babes? Who am I, you know? - That's exactly right. - So it's like you're kind of pulling that lever.

like I see these stupid fucking YouTube videos

where like in this like male kind of, I don't know, space where it's like porn or like lust is like the fuck, like if you can get over a lot, (laughing) - It's like, no, that's the fucking actually

“easiest thing I think to get over as a guy.”

Like for me, you know, once I got over porn, I started and I'm still like trying to figure out all like the deeper shit that makes me a piece of shit. Like my, I'm fucking angry all the time. I am angry all the time.

I'm yelling all the time. I have a lot of like anger and wrath. That's much, that is, for me that's been way more difficult to try to figure out than lust. - Right.

- So for a lot of the time, see these guys, we'll spend our whole fucking lives just trying to figure out this like porn issue, this lust issue, this whatever, right? And it's, and we, we'd spend our whole lives trying to get over that and we haven't even got.

- We're not, we're not, we don't have the bandwidth to deal with more like gutter rule problems. Like for guys, like a lot, like the anger, the dickishness, right? You know what I mean?

- You don't really think about this stuff. Who's I didn't at all till I had kids. Cause then like, you're in a apartment by yourself, if you have a girlfriend, like, I'm fucking angry. He gives a shit, I fucking yelled, whatever.

It's not the end of the world. Once you have kids, you're like, damn, I'm making this place, this living environment hell. And it's me, like I'm doing this. - Yes.

“- And that's why again, for me personally,”

I would say, the porn thing, the piece of that was like, you know, I met odds with my wife, I won sex. I'm like fuck, and then I, you know, you slink off to the porn, slink off the porn.

- Yeah, you never fix the issue.

Whereas if you're like, I, we got to get it on the same page that we got it, we got to be operating. Part of the marriages, we're obviously having sex with each other, we're communicating. Porn's such a little like, it's like a little underground

shelter you can kind of hide out and then you obviously fucking just become a freak under, you know, underground bunker freak, but that was the, at least for me personally, and it's like, you start hat, and then it's like, you ditch the porn safety blanket

and you're like, I have to hash this out. And for me, it's like that, then starts, at least starts to spread out into other areas. - Yeah, I would be like, I would be like, I don't feel like dealing with this blah, blah, blah.

- Yeah, so, yeah, I don't know, I think it's good. And I really, again, having kids is like the big thing for me where it's like, I am every day, I'm like, all right, let's make my house, what can I do to make my house chill, fun, and just like a place

that feels good to be, and that entails when I'm feeling like, you know, about whatever, I have to catch myself and calm myself down and realize like this isn't as big as the thing I'm trying to do, which is like, create a happy healthy house.

- Yeah, that's exactly right. - But it's hard. - It's very, very difficult to be like, and this is something I had to tell myself a lot of times where I'm like, you know, I'm, you're responsible

for how you feel inside. It's no one else is, it's literally your responsibility.

“And it's like, what do you have to do to make”

that stuff feel good inside your body? Like, how do you feel at ease? It's like, you have to figure that out. - Yeah, you do. And there's, like, well, that's a good nuance take,

and that's the difficult thing that a lot of dudes just like, it takes them forever to figure out. Like, unless you're super conscious but this is going to be, yeah, like a long journey, right? - Yeah.

- Yeah, like you're not ever gonna come to that realization. I'm even thinking about just like how on edge a lot of guys are when they're looking at porn, like, get your phone, get your laptop.

You're always on the high alert

because you're just like, oh, did I exit out of this? My wife probably can't pick up my phone, did I delete the Instagram history? - Did the audio go to a Bluetooth? - It's a hundred percent, do you count?

- Oh, right. - Yeah, yeah. - You're always on high alert. And just think about like, what that, that hyper, you're, so you're at your hyper alert

and think about what that does, just as you, in your household, how do you conduct yourself? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - If you're always on high alert and you're just gonna be more energetic.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You're gonna, you're gonna obviously possibly like lash out with the kids more or with the wife. And the wife's gonna think that, you know,

something's up with him, she's gonna confront you. And then you're just like, no, I'm not. And then you start to lie. - Yeah, right. So it just creates this bad.

Yeah, it's just like a bad household culture, you know? And so I think, yeah, I mean, obviously, if you're, if you're married man with kids, yeah, you gotta get this shit on lock. You do need to get this shit on lock even if you're single

because you're gonna, you're gonna bring it into the marriage and you're gonna bring it into your household. - It is also kind of a flex as a young man to be in a relationship, being like, I don't even look at that crap.

- Yeah, yeah, it's kind of nice. - Yeah. - 'Cause it's like, yeah, there's, I feel like girls have been, I don't know, I'm trying to think of the word,

I'm not like conditioned, but like, I feel like it's become a bit strange for, let's say most girls and like just,

to be like, if I see once I watch porn, that's fine. Like, almost like it's a healthy. - It's good. - But I don't think girls like it. - No, they don't.

I've never met a single girl.

- Or if the girl, yeah, you're girlfriend might say that, but the moment she becomes your wife, she's like, fuck this dude. - They'll watch that shit. - Yeah, why are you asking me to do this crazy shit

when we're having sex? - That's true. - Yeah, no, I agree. - No, they don't like it. - Yeah.

- At some point, I also would argue that. - Also, I don't give a fuck, I don't think any guy probably wants a wife who is legitimate. Like, you might say you do, but at some point down the road, I don't think a guy.

“- Dude, if you like the idea, that's why.”

- Is that it? - It's a hundred times a woman. - We're actually genuinely catch your wife who would be devastating. - Yeah, no, absolutely.

- Deadly say, I would be like, what the fuck are you? - Yeah. - I'd be so mad. - Absolutely dude. - Like, phone and hand.

- Phone and hand. (laughing) - Bro. - Yeah. - You're fucking good.

- Yeah, that's gross. - I would hate that. - That's gross. Well, the female point thing is interesting. I don't know, I mean, I obviously know more about

the guy phenomenon. - Yeah. - Yeah, I can know off. - But, no, the chicks are loving like their radical now. - Yeah, that's just like--

- There was an age game game, yeah. - The novels and all that stuff. - The novels, the vampires, or whatever they thought. - Yeah. - There's a new bookshop on my street

that just opened up. - Girl porn? - Yeah, a radical. - Oh, no, what the fuck? - Yeah, no, that's gross.

“They're not really open to talking about it.”

Whenever I always ask, I always ask my wife or she reads,

she likes fantasy stuff, but I feel like now it's like, the erotic is. And it's, they're not like, it's not like the like, then then he fucking fucked me in the end. It's like, it's all about the moment two people meet.

- Yeah. - That's the thing. They want the moment they go fucking, and they just kiss. That's like their erotic, a whisk away. - Yeah, you wish the way, and I've learned

I've listened to this female professor lady was talking about, she's like, dude, I'm a professor, and I just started reading these books, and she's like, I got so fucking, I would put them literally, like almost like a cartoon,

like in another book and like hide. She's like, I would read them, and I, she goes, I would reread that point over and over and over and over and over and over when they finally come together, get some going, get some fire up and times, dude.

So, and again, for me, it's like, you know, 'cause you hear, even go into marriage, people go like, dude, it's great. The idea of having sex with one person in your whole, it's just like a stupid idea.

It doesn't make sense. I, what I found, it's like, it's actually really easy. Especially if you're not watching porn, 'cause then you just sit there, and you're not, especially if you're not jerking off,

you're just eventually your body's gonna go. - Yeah. - It's time for sex. - Yeah, and you're not gonna go. - Who's the one?

- Why do you say that? - I'm fucking my wife, I'm, I'm a porney. - Yeah, no, it's great. - So, I've been fucking probably for a long time. (laughing)

- It doesn't get old.

- No, I actually, I always, it's in cop, it's not like,

- No. - I would tell you, I'd be like, yeah. - It's kind of boring. I would say, guys, I'm sorry, if I say to my wife, sorry, fucking boring.

I'm not bored, I go like fuck it, no, it's true.

“- And I think it actually gets phenomenally better”

when you stop looking at porn. Like, 100% like, I've been dating my wife and I was 18. - Yeah. - So I've been, yeah, I don't know. I've been, obviously, having sex in my wife for a long time.

- Yeah. - 34. - And it is, yeah, just hasn't gotten old. - No, it's, it's, but for me, I remember dating and being a pornhound, and I remember, remember,

I would, I would, I'd be like, whatever, like, this is cool and all, I just don't think they're, I guess, doing like, you know, obviously, luckily, you marry someone, you have a sexual spark with, you know, sometimes that just isn't there.

- Yeah. - But, yeah, I, I don't know, I do think it's, I think it's the move, you know, all things considered, it's like, you can come at it, everyone comes at it from their own angle, but I've, I've gone both sides

of the thing, I used to literally watch porn while I ate breakfast, when I was in college, that's, I would just watch it, I would just, I would just, I would just basically load it up, I'd be like, I, what am I going to watch now?

I would just start, I would eat, I remember just being like, this is so sick, I can watch porn, and it's like, it's literally, you're, you're on the Donny Island, but okay, like, I had a college roommate who, pop-tarks and porn, yeah, little, yeah, yeah.

Make it a day, I had a college roommate who would, who would every night get his laptop out, he was a fucking clean holy shit. This is actually coming back to me, so he was a cleaned, he would open up his laptop,

screws, what he wanted to look at in the morning, closest laptop, what's got to do with his laptop, have it, but he was fucking, dude, he was sick, he had, he had like a flashlight that he would, yeah, so he was in it, he was fucking in it, dude.

Dude, I, but this is actually not, you know, it's funny because dude, we all have, that's the thing, we all have these stories, and it just becomes so normalized that we just think, it's funny, it's funny, it's funny, it's funny.

It's funny, and yeah, but that's also the other thing, it's like, there has to be a nuance in it, because it is funny, but it's also, like, grow up, you know what I mean, going back to the kids, right?

doing this. It is sad because you are essentially having sex with yourself, and it's like, you're off whatever I get it, like,

you know, you look, I always think of soldiers in the battlefield,

cranking out, obviously, it's going to happen. But once you get into, like, the gear, the flesh, like the ocular stuff, now you're having sex with yourself, yeah, you are having, well, dude, and then I feel really bad for the guys who, I'm not going to, like, talk about,

like, the science behind it, because I just don't really know, but both, so, like, this is more so anecdotal, but I've heard a lot of stories, even from, like, users in the app, like, they just make such a relationship with their hand, but this is how you do get erectile,

“this function, it's the only thing that you can,”

that's going to get you off is your hand. And so then you're with it, Jake. This is super tragic. It's really sad for, you know, the 20-something-year-old guys, the 30-something-year-old guys, you know,

they do finally get the babe and they can't get it up. Yeah. Then, I mean, that's a fucking cycle, right? You can't get it up, you feel like shit. So then, back then, you just go back on the porn.

Yeah, it's fucking crazy. That's the one thing that I, and I think that's, luckily, being lucky enough to be born before internet porn. Is that that suck for guys who were just, like, came online, it was just like, boom, here you go.

How old are you? 40. Okay, yeah, I'm 34, so there's that. But that six-year-old actually is, yeah, no, that's actually a huge distinction,

because my parents got a computer and they had no idea what the fuck was going on. Oh, there's no idea. I don't even know the, I don't even know the, they probably didn't know that there was history, right?

Yeah, you could just, they didn't. I guarantee you they didn't. I had no idea, I remember, I was like in the floppy disc era. I was like, very initially. I remember my brother to bring him a floppy disc,

pop it in and naked chick comes up and we're like, fucking awesome. But yeah, that's my whole thing. I always try not to, just like talk down to people or be like preachy about it.

It's just like, dude, I'm telling you, like, I've run the experiment. It's like, for me personally, you could be like, in some weird, you know, you could just be like, no, me and my wife are poly and we watch porn.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Good luck, yeah, yeah, it's like good luck. But it's like, from, I would say if you're standard meat and potatoes or whatever, like I'm gonna do,

trying to have a wife and kids, it's like, it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, it's got to be kind of kicked out eventually. Otherwise you have a porn dad. I remember porn dads.

I don't know if you ever came across a porn dad, but like guys who just had playboys. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fucking weird. Looking back on it, I was just like, dude,

there was playboys all over that dude's house. Oh, I'm like, yeah, no, it's weird. It still gives me the heat.

I've never been like, dude, your dad's so fucking cool.

It's playboys. I wish my fucking dad had that right there. Yeah. Now I'm like, I'm so happy my dad had to playboys. Yeah, I'm very, yeah, no, my dad was not a porn dad.

No, he was not a porn dad. But no, I know, 'cause he, and that's also the thing. It's like, yeah, you grew up with it thinking, it's like a cool novelty, because I want to be like my dad. It's kind of fucking sad, jack and off.

I don't know, it's weird, it's very fucking weird. Also, I remember going around to like mechanics, with shops on all the different methods. Yes, it's very important. Every mechanic shops bathroom, and then there's literally

just the other day. So dude, jerking off there, I'm pretty sure they were. I might have.

“I guarantee it, 'cause there's like otherwise, what the fuck?”

Yeah, it's like just around. And guys are only so fucking strong, you know, so if you're just around like somebody, somebody, I remember it was me a collage of just an ached lady there, and I'd be like, I remember being little and being like,

whoa, my dad would be like, close your eyes. Go to the bathroom, come out of there, I know. I remember just like, we were, me and my, my oldest is four, and there's like up the street. He's not a mechanic anymore, but he has an old garage,

and like we would walk past it, and we said hello one time, and he was like, oh, come over into the den. We came over into the den, and it was just like, like the classic like 1970s, 1980s, like tits, and I'm like, fuck dude, close your eyes.

Hold my boy away, I don't fucking look at this. I was so scared, I was like, dude, fuck, I just fucked up my kids like forever. So now that's young enough, he probably forgot. I hope dude, nah, I hope, I remember I saw a naked lady

the first time caught out of a magazine, literally,

it's classic on the woods, just in the woods, if we walk round of the woods, crumpled up, and it was just a naked lady. I was probably, for like six years old. Yeah, I remember it was being like, what's that?

So it was like a naked lady, I remember being in the woods was outside of the Caraconks, swim club, just being like, what the fuck, and just, I remember just like, as a kid just being like, okay, and just like walking about my way.

Yeah, I remember that was him. Or hopefully that's my boy. I'm hoping that he's not fucked up.

“I think he's fine, it's when you get 10s and it's like,”

my brother's same thing, they were just like, check this out, naked lady, on a thing, and I was just like, older brother. Old brother, yeah, old brother. There's the same exact story, they have the buddies,

they have the VHS, and they're like, check this out. As I sat at the guard, I would stand, they make me stand like this down by the fucking door

and be like, they're here, they're here, yeah, yeah, yeah. So look how they do that, they let me watch a little bit of it, and I was like, this is so fucking stupid. - So that's another issue though, too, because it is such a part.

And again, you say these things, and it's not bad, like I, you kind of get like this sounds fucking weird,

“but it is like a fine memory, like that's funny, right?”

That memory is funny. - It is funny. - Or when your friends all get together,

which by the way, women never think this is real,

but it's like, yeah, like a guy in your class had a DVD or a VHS or whatever, and then you all go to fucking his house and you're out like just jerking off, and that. - What was your also so young, you're like, oh, you did that too, yeah, yeah, yeah, like,

let's see what you're drinking buddies, yeah. - Now, like, why did that, that's gay? And it's like, no, it wasn't gay, like we weren't, it wasn't gay in each other. Oh, we were just jacking off with our thighs touching,

like that's not gay, that's not gay. Also, also, it was really like, you were like, like, heroin addicts all go to like a shooting gallery. - Yeah, you were just like, yo, we got it, let's go. - Band of friends. - Band of friends.

- Band of heroin, and you're like, - And you're like, let's do heroin together. - So there's, and I look back at that and I like laugh. And I do think like, to some degree, it's, well, and this is, this is the difficult part.

This is my whole deal, it's like,

that's funny, I'm not here to like,

fucking moralize you, right? - Yeah. - But I don't know a lot of guys who are able to have a relationship with porn and not get addicted or just have like a pretty, you know, dependent relationship.

- Yeah. - Was it, you know? - For sure. - It's like, if you get smoked, I just smoke cigarettes with you a couple of days ago.

“And it's like, okay, I'm not gonna smoke a cigarette again, right?”

But I have that relationship with cigarettes. I can do that, but yeah, with porn, if I'm gonna look, if I'm looking at porn once, even to this day, I'm probably on the fucking, I'm off my rocker. - I'm good, yeah, I'm gonna look at it every single day.

- Dude, and then there's the issue of like, what, you know, again, I mean my brother talked about this a lot, but like, being in a porn hole is another thing too, where it's like, you're using porn, whatever, some guys go so deep into it where it's like,

now we're calling hooker ads. - No, we're doing this. - And then you come out of the whole thing where you're just like, the fuck did I do? I used to read like, I would read about this all the time.

And you get you on like, read it in your porn addiction, and there's a guy who's like, yeah, I'm just watching porn one day, I kind of spas, called hooker, I'm having like, unprotected sex with the end of your just like, Jesus, that's like the worst type of stories.

- Yeah, there is a porn hole, you can be like, when you're in porn brain and you're gonna brain, it's like, you might think you're thinking normally, but you're kind of not your goons, you're in a place, you're being like,

if you see like a chick, you're just instantly being like, "Dage" about it, and it's just like, there's a point of it where you're like, dude, like... - Yeah, I know like I said, it goes back to that, that like, spirit energy.

Like, it just grips you. - Yeah. - It's like a fucking sakebist almost. - You know what I mean? - It's like, the sakebist actually exists.

And it's just like ruling your life, and you have that attached to your back. Yeah, man, it makes you, yeah, you could do wild shit. Like, porn, just got done looking at it for three hours, you feel bad about yourself.

It could even be like, yeah, I'm gonna fucking buy these new pair of Nike's that I can't afford. You know what I mean? - Yeah, you just do stupid shit, yeah, and there's, and even like, like, on a societal perspective,

it's, I don't know what the, I'm not gonna say, 'cause I don't wanna, like, a fucking idiot, but there's like a percentage of divorces happening

“because of porn or infidelity, right, in general, right?”

So that's a percentage of whatever the 52% divorce rate is. - And it's like, that's just gonna cost you a lot of fucking money, dude. So like, you were looking at porn, now you gotta pay Alemonie, like now you gotta pay child support?

- Yeah. - It's like, fuck that dude, like, that's, well, it's like, you're getting it, and then that, that's the fact. - Then you fuck up your kid's life. Like, I don't care, like, if you, and that's,

you know, whatever, but like, you know, you get a divorce, I don't care, like, if it's even like a positive reason, like why you got divorced, like, there are some relationships out there, right? That shouldn't necessarily exist, you get a divorce.

You're still throwing a fucking nuclear bomb into your family, like the kid's gonna be fucked. Like, the kid's going to have some type of, and it's like a spectrum, but the kid found of it. - Yeah. - Yeah.

- Unless you're a sick-ticket, like, if you ever, my parents stayed together, I wish they got divorced, when I was younger, I still wish they got divorced so bad.

Just because it was like, I would always hear about people

having two Christmas messages. - Oh, yeah. (laughing) - It's your own side, dude. - I was like, a little sick-ticket. - Yeah. - And we're like, dude, that sounds so sick.

But then it's like, obviously, I was on the outside looking at it. And I'd probably be very sad. - Yeah. - We also said, like, we had, I was one of six, so my parents would laugh and be like, dude, we literally can't. - You can't. Like, we can't. We could, but it'd be so, yeah.

- He's like, I remember my dad has always laughed at me, and like, it's just, it's just not, I don't even know how to even go without that. - Yeah. - But it's one of those things, when I get it, where you go, well, if I look at porn,

when I get divorced, it's like, no, not necessarily, but you're probably more likely.

or you're likely to be more of a dick too. Like, all your bad qualities are gonna come out because of porn, like, even going back to the whole extra balance thing, or your hyper vigilante, or whatever. All of your worst qualities are gonna be highlighted

because you're looking at it. - That's a cool way to put it. It's like, it's the kind of a note in this, like, network of thinking and being, that's probably not the best. - Yep, exactly. - Yep, exactly.

- And so, yeah, you're, I don't know, there's just a lot of ill effects. And what's cool is that I do think more than ever now, people are at least, like, more privy to this, even, like, five years ago, you haven't really talked about.

You know, people like you weren't necessarily talking about porn addiction, you know, or porn. - Be surprised. (both laugh) - I've been drawing it on about it for like 10 years.

(both laugh) - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - But I know what you mean. It was very, I remember the no-fat thing coming out, and be like, "Whoa, yeah."

- All right, guys, please, please, please. I beg of you, I'll be doing stand-up, August 7th, and August 8th, San Jose, California. Come on, guys, ticket sales, ooh, boy. Every else is looking decent, but San Jose, California,

I get it, it's not great at summertime, but if you wanna come, come. August 13th, 14th, Spokane, Washington, then I'll be in Portland, Maine, Boston, Massachusetts, Royal Oak, Michigan, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Charlotte, Jacksonville,

Atlanta, Chattanooga, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, and a bunch of other places, guys. Go to matmakusquer.com to get tickets, I'll be touring all through December. - So, in terms of the app,

there's like the recognizing that--

- Yeah, they first have to recognize the paint shit

and the fact that-- - That horniness, horniness is a real thing, they're just horniness, but then there's a paint component, like, kind of, tangled onto it. - Yeah, you gotta untangle that, you gotta realize,

like I said, going back, that you've fucking, it's like, it's like almost like if you only worked out your right by step, your whole life, it's gonna be fucking huge. And the rest of your body is gonna--

- It's actually a pretty appropriate fucking, look at this, your forearm is just fucking. - So, and what are the other two kind of points of this? - Yeah, there's that, and there's--

- There's a community feature, right? So, like, there is just, like, how you have a band of brothers when you're a kid jacking off with each other, you have to, that is true. You do have to get into community with one another.

And there is, like, it is shown that some accountability is very positive in this, right? So, the fact that you can go to someone for, like, "Hey, my wife just blew up on me," or, "I'm struggling today," right?

Those are like, pretty easy examples. Just the fact that you realize that your situation is actually not that unique. - That's another thing. Guys, like, we think, we just get into this headspace,

we get into this tunnel vision. It's like, "I'm the only one dealing with this shit." It's like, "My wife's only reacting like this," or whatever. And then you open it up, and it's like,

“"No, everyone's fucking life is very similar”

to what your experience is." So, there's a community feature to it. And then there's, another feature is, which is good for some people. But there's a psycho-educational piece, right?

You do need to have some understanding of how this is actually affecting your brain. - How, yeah, what is, you know, that stuff as well? - Yeah, like, what do you wanna know? - How does it affect your brain?

- How does that affect you? - What does that do? And like the squishy stuff in there. - Yeah, so, well, they're a lot, right? I mean, first of all, it does,

you know, everyone's always gonna say, like,

it overrides your dopamine receptors, right? So, it does, like, flood it. So, you are more, again, what's hard is it's very nuanced. You don't realize, it's, it's a some degree, you don't realize it.

But it is, like, you know, the greens aren't as green or something like that, you know what I mean? So, like, you're going throughout these experiences in your life and because you're flooding yourself with these, with these dopamine all the time.

“Yeah, you are a little more sluggish towards life, right?”

- That's, that's the way I've heard it. It's like, it's a, if someone was saying, it's like a neurologically expensive event. Every time you have, look at porn, jerk off. You're brain, you know, you only have,

it's, like, shooting out little, you know, sparks and particles of shit, yeah. - It's like, blue, it's a lot. It's like every time, like, naked lady, orgasms, like, your brain's going, this is it.

And it just fires so much to your point where you start, starts to kind of dull, like the greens aren't as green, you're just kind of, you just don't have the juice pretty much. - And then, like, you know, you start making relationships

with the porn, you start making relationships with the hand, you start making, you know what I mean? Like, your brain will pick up on this. So again, like going back to that whole ED point, that's real, like, if you're really just only able

to get off to your hands because you created a relationship with your hand and your body recognizes that, well, no, this isn't a vagina, like, I can't get hard to this. - This is my thing.

- Yeah, this is, it's going to always be a tighter grip.

So there's that, you know, and kills your,

“it honestly does crush even things like productivity.”

- Yeah. - So you're out put on that, and I'm very grateful because, again, people are more apt to talk about this shit now.

getting into the weeds of how this is actually, like, affecting men's brains, right? So that I think this, and I think for a certain guy,

that's always good, but that can't be the only piece, right?

Like, you're not gonna deal with this just through psychoeducation, right?

“You have to, you have to have the cocktail of”

the medicocative, the brotherhood accountability space, and the psychoeducation. I think that's like the greatest route to overcome this. - I agree, yeah, it's, yeah, it's more so part of, like, consciously authoring your life in a way

where you're like, all right, I'm just gonna really start every single thing I do, ask myself, is this a good thing? You know, should I be doing this? What would it look like if I did it? And just experiment, that's one thing I've always been lucky with.

I am a big self-experimenter, I love just doing weird experiments and, like, last, last month, I did a thing where I just tried to work out every day for 30 days. I did 32 days, just like, really hard. - No breaks.

- No breaks. Just to see, like, do I really need rest time? Like, I hear about all the time, like, what if I didn't? - You do, I got very tired, but you kind of, like, you know, I don't know, I think, especially as you get older

because people fall into this rut of just like, I guess I go to work every day, and it's like,

you can always be, like, giving yourself challenges,

self-experiments, and doing, you know? I think that's like one of the best possible things you can do, and it's like, and again, I, for me, I was one of the most staunchly, like, fuck dude, if people don't tell you that's bad, like,

that's just some arcane old bullshit, like, you're dumb for listening to that, and I was like, porn rules, do whatever you want. And then, you say, it's like the classic tale, then you get older and you're like, damn it.

Now, you know, so you're kind of like, I've made my bed, and, wow, it would be imagine being way more conscious about this stuff when I was in my early 20s, so I could have made my life infinitely easier, kind of thing. - Well, no, exactly, like, I think that's a good principle,

like you want your life to be, like, yeah, like, easier. - Right? - Yeah, plus it, plus it, plus it would be nice. - Plus it would be nice. - I would like not to not get into a fucking argument

with my wife. - And it's really like, you know, you really, there's something to do that. You're doomed when you're younger and you're select, you're like outlooking for, you know,

a wife girlfriend or whatever, you're so, you don't even realize, and maybe this is like, without the goon or with it, I don't know, to be fair. But it's like, if you're just like used to being, like, naked chick, tits, blah, blah, blah, ass, awesome.

But then you learn, like, oh, I have to like relate to this person as a human being, and that's like, maybe that's just the fate of all men no matter what. But it's like, that's, that's like a tough one, man, 'cause it's like, you're just, you're so gooned out,

you're like, I'm like, fuck this chick. - Yeah, you just kind of, yeah.

“- And you have to build a life of it, and you're like,”

fuck, I didn't think about that part. - Yeah, that's a huge part. - Also, like, even going to that. - Go into that point though, like, yeah, you spend your whole life, I even seen this,

where it's like, you know, you think you develop. How much of our taste for women has actually been influenced by porn, right? So it's like, oh, I just like, yeah, you know, it's fucking big-tit brunette chick.

- Yeah, yeah. - Well, maybe it's, maybe that's actually not necessarily, well, I don't know who wouldn't like it. - Yeah, it changed. (laughing)

- But, yeah. - No, you don't even have to be said for this. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like, well, how much of your taste has actually been affected by porn auger?

- You just can't give any specifics, like, yeah, that's awesome. - Yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome, that's awesome, that's awesome. - Yeah, it was really like a short Asian lady. (laughing) It's very, yeah, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, but I get your point, it's like, it does, it, and it also, like, you know, again, just like, you, whether you can say, I know porn's all fake, but if you're just watching that over and over and over and over again, you start to be like, this is how it should look.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. - That's exactly how it should look. - The jackhammer is not, you don't need to bust out the jackhammer in a Wednesday night. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- That's not a real thing, it's a great thing. - It's not really like that. - No, well, yeah, and then it isolates you, 'cause then you come to, you know, what's the, the goon caves?

- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Viewer heard about this. - I, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was an article, I saw, and I only, like, happened from the Harper's. - Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

“- My brother sent me, yeah, I think you sent me that as well.”

- I sent you three people sent me that. - I think I sent you that, I sent you monks in the casino. - I got it, did you read that? - No, I didn't read that yet. - That's good, that's a good.

- Tell about, like, the vice economy and how, you know, it's the porn plus the gambling. - Which is, man, fuck, dude, the gambling is, you gamble, you sports gambling.

- No, I've never done it. - I'm not allowed to anymore.

(laughing) - Your wife, your girlfriend? - My wife. - Hell, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

- You fucking put a stop to it? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Good. - I was never, yeah, you probably had, you probably had a problem, but I wanna talk to you. (laughing) - Yeah, I had never been a big gambler, man, I've never, I get it,

yeah, it doesn't do it for me. And I also don't fall sports enough to even pretend I have it, like a winning, you know, it's a lot of guys watching it, like I'm kind of keyed in.

“I think that's where it gets guys or like,”

no, I'm seeing something, no one sees. And that's like, well, I'm not seeing anything. I'm literally taking it's rule out for me. I would be being like, yeah, those guys. - Yeah, and that's the article, and I haven't read it,

since I think it came out November, monks in the casino, I forget who wrote it. I think it was just like a sub-steck publication, but yeah, that's this whole thing. It's like, we're living a monastic life

in the sense where all these guys are like isolated and alone. And we're in this like cell, and the only type of interaction we get is with not real people, right? So it's like you're not actually like interacting

with the people when you get, like you're not actually like interacting with fucking, you know, Bryce Harper or anything like that, like you're just betting on him. And you're not interacting with the chick

that you're jacking off to. - Yeah. - So you're just living a very cloistered life. - Even only fans have learned. You're not even talking to her.

It's like four romanians just around the clock - Yeah. - Just type them back. - Romanians, pretty much, pretty much. It's just like four, no, really it is like Easter

and you're being guys, and they're around the clock. And the lady recorded their shit like four years ago. And now she's just chilling 'cause she was like, when you, I saw this in an interview with someone, they were saying, if you're the only fans now,

so that this person really did, whoever the model is, really if they have like, usually they have managers. If it's a bigger, like porn star lady, she has management all the stuff. So they take you in there like dude,

you're gonna do a new piece of content every day for like a year or two. Once you have, let's say like 100 something videos, when a new part, you just stop. You're like, I'm done 'em out.

You can record, if you want, but you can also stop. And then that person gets drip fed your old content from years ago from, you know, you quote unquote, but it's just a team of typeers being like, oh hey, and like, you know, it kinda gets like fed out

and dripped out. And then it's just like you're just like watching an old curated collection while this lady does whatever the fuck they do, but like it's not even, with only fans, like at least you get to talk to the person,

like you're not even talking to the person. - That's fucking crazy. - Yeah, sucks. - That is wild. - I mean, in there, again, you take like a 30,

you know, 1,000 foot view on that. - I think it's pathetic, right? - It's sad, like it's sad. - It's sad. - It's sad, again, could have got me.

Honestly, yeah, well, no, I wasn't. - I didn't have all my credit cards. (laughs) - I would have for sure signed up for one of those, just shut it's like, she's got a little, I literally can't.

I don't do any of the financial shit, so I don't like it. - Same here. - Hey, I also hate fucking doing it. So it's like, what you sweet, I don't have to do that,

but I don't even, I never know how much money we have. I don't know either. I genuinely ask her.

Like, every year, I'll be like, how are we doing? - How is every year? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - We did, like, look at four bucks. (laughs) - Well, I've read a long time ago that Samurai has held it down like that.

That a Samurai would be like, the Samurai would take care of that. - Oh no, no, yeah. - It'd be like, I'm a Samurai. All this other stuff is dealt with. I'm not even looking or thinking about this,

which I try to do, I'm like, I'm on a, if I can help it, I'm not even gonna just, let me know if shit gets fucked up,

“basically. - Yeah. - And how that's how we roll.”

- I stuck to that, but apparently it's not the case. A lot of talk a lot of guys are like, what? I'm like, no, I do every, I do all of our stuff like that. And it's like, what a fuck. - No, I don't, I don't fuck with the finances.

I don't touch 'em. - That's a very, that's a, yeah. Is that like old world, like classical? - Yeah, ancient Greeks, so we're just kidding. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- It's like the Greeks, you know what I'm saying? - The word economy comes from household management. - The word economy comes from household management. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just talking about this. - Yeah, it is the economy.

- Yeah, yeah, go point, I'm gonna, yeah, fake one. - We're just, yeah, we're just living that ancient Greek life. - I've said it before, money's for girls. (laughing) - Money is literally for girls.

- Yeah. - Yeah, I think so. - Money is for real, we've had a money for girls. We're like here, we're just talking.

- Here's what I'm talking about. - Go do your thing.

- There's a fucking absolutely. - There's a piece of paper we fucking made up, quite. - Oh, that's another thing, I don't even know how these guys, I mean, you have to be taken out, like private credit card. - You're a really ballsy guy, if you're, you know,

with a chick in your pre-baked credit card. - Thought about it. - But yeah, it's like, as soon as you think about one administrative task, you're like, yeah, I don't want it. - No, dude, yeah, you're a ballsy guy

if you're fucking putting your only fan subscriptions on your regular, like, you know, wild. - Debit card. - It's wild, it's just get busted. I mean, again, you're in a portal.

- Well, then again, yeah, you start thinking dumb, you think you can get away, or it's not even like, I can, it's not even like that. It's not even that, like articulate, it's like, I can get away with this, it's just like,

no, I'm gonna do it. - Yeah, I'm doing this. You're always gonna get caught. I also think, like, this is completely just my own thought. I do think that the fruit of a good marriage

is that, or a good relationship is that, like, yeah, the shit's gonna come out eventually, like, you can only suppress it for so long. It's gonna come out. - Yeah.

- And maybe it's that, or maybe it's just that guys

“are really fucking dumb and you're in a fucking form, right?”

- No, women have detective brains, first of all,

they're on the beat, they're tied into a level. - Yeah, it's on level, you can't even comprehend.

I learned that a long time, it's like a long time ago, it's like 100% honesty, it's the only path, otherwise, you're just going to get busted, it's a matter of when. - Yeah, you're going to get busted. - And I, and even going back to your point,

like, I, what you were saying, like, you just, like, try shit, yeah, and see you can do it. - Yeah, I mean, that's another thing, like, I don't think that guys have to be, like, in the depths of despair to just try this out.

It's like, just fucking try it out, see if you can do it. And there's tools out there, why don't you, you know, leverage that, like, if there's a tool out there that, and if you really think that you don't have an issue with it, and why don't you just fucking try it out?

- Yeah. - See, if you can do it, and if you can't, okay, well then I'm a fucking idiot, and the guys I work with are fucking idiots, and we're all fucking stupid, just prove it, like,

“like, it's like the previous wrong, like, you know, right?”

- And I also, I find it to be a pretty useful bargaining chip in terms of, like, just sex and marriage, I remember the day I was just like, I don't even look at that shit to my wife. A, it felt good, and B, I'll be like, you well,

just so, you know, it's like, you're all I got, babe, they love that shit too, I know. - There's nothing else. - There's nothing else, so it's like, you know, just, you let me know, we don't do it right now.

- But you want to give them, it's, like, security, and, you know what you do? - It's, it's the ultimate, like, just keep me in mind. That's all, man, just, just think about it. - Absolutely, dude. - Track the days with me.

That's all, man. - It's, man. - Are you, are you a track? Are you a guy to, like, do streaks?

- I never, I never, it was just, like, a streaks.

I haven't looked at porn in, like, 85 days. - No, I stopped doing that. - I'm not, I was never a streaker. - There's actually, I used to, for sure, but then I'm just still thinking about porn all the time.

- Yeah, that's, I just go, like, I just don't do it anymore. - Yeah, and I'm not stupid, I fall, I'll get right back home. - I don't think that that's, like, necessary, like, a bad way of approaching it.

I've actually seen guys in the app who, and we do, like, they're, they're, they're, like, streaks.

“So, I think, in some way, like, it can be good”

to see your progress, like, yeah, it's kind of cool, like, you're looking in the mirror, like, after you work out, right? Like, yeah. - Yeah. - You know, so that's kind of cool, yeah, but for me, it was, I think that's probably how fucking dependent I was on it.

It was, like, the streak made me think of the porn and then that, I remember I had this one app. I think it was called BrainBuddy, where I would, - Oh, yeah, yeah. - Oh, yeah. - In my little tree would grow every day.

I remember the day my tree fell down, Bows, like, it's just, it's like, deflating. Where has for me? - Yeah, your tree grows, and then you think that's the effect, like, the nature of the tree.

- Yeah, I remember when the tree was like, well, if that's hard. - But I lost my tree, and I was like, yeah, damn it. But for me, and I think this is true with, like, just, sobriety, like, drugs in general. The guys were like, white, not the one that, like,

full of dude, up in silver, six months, I fell out of every day. You could do that, I guess. Or it's like, you have to find the deeper level of, like, no, it's actually, it doesn't even register as A worth it

or B, like, even pleasant in a way. - Yeah. - It's like, and people do it with drugs all the time. And they find just a, like, a bigger thing that they're like, yeah, like, if that leads to me losing this, this becomes more on a track, drugs becomes more on a track.

- Yeah, no, I have to point where it's like, it's almost repul- not like the poles of, like, I'm disgusted, but you're just like, nah, I'm genuinely good on that, rather than being, like, well, I won't do so fucking bad.

- Yeah. I wish I could, but I can't. It's like a very different thing. - Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.

- Yeah, I've never gotten into that either.

But like I said, you know, I guess it could work. - Whatever the fuck you gotta do, if you get pumped - I know. - I know.

“- But it's, that's why I think, it's like,”

well, that's why I like the surveillance shit. I think, I've covered it. - Yeah, like, I think, here's the deal. At first, do whatever the fuck you can to, if you really don't wanna look at it,

just do whatever you can at first, right? But yeah, no, I think they're, like, the sober addict type of thing, like, I do think there's, you know, if it's just like a, if you're just like, leaving out of, like, fear, I don't think that's,

like, a healthy way to ever get over something. - That's true. - And again, it's for me, it's like, you know, do you, man, run your own experiment, I ran the experiment, how's it guess?

Is generally not the move, and it took me, like, year-state to, like, and I remember just hitting a point where I was like, yeah, I think I'll go to office, man. Like, I really, and, you know, since then, I've just been, like, yeah, just don't.

There's times where I'm like, they'll be sick, but I'm like, I know where that goes. - Was it before you were married or after? - After. After, well after.

And I remember, like, trying, trying, trying, then eventually just being like, yeah, just don't need, I don't need to do it, you know, it's, like, I could, obviously, but it's just, it's just not, it's just something I want to just kind of, like,

move ahead, move without, you know. - Did she, it was it because she caught you, or was it? - No, she caught me, like, I was shameless, she would catch you, like, got me. - Yeah.

- I really, I really, well, that's the thing, I don't have, like, that much, I would remember being, like, Dennis, succinct, I call this embarrassing. - Yeah.

- But no, I, I, not even that, but it was just,

and she never even really pressured me,

she would have kind of be, like, yeah, it's not, like, I'm not, like, stoked about it, and I wouldn't lie, that's a big thing, she'd be like, did you watch more of it, yeah? - Yeah. - So I, I always, like, lying to me, fell just like, like, - No? - Yeah, I don't know, I just, kind of the point of, like, I'm not gonna lie.

for myself, I'm like, I just don't wanna, yeah, absolutely. It's just weird, it just feels weird, it just, like, it just becomes the point where it's like, I just know,

if I never kicked it, being, like, 70,

put in the phone down, I would have, I would have eventually jumped off a bridge. - Yeah, no, there is a lot of guys, dude, who's like, 70, like, fucking guessing the apper. - 70 years old, it's crazy, and, it, no, it's crazy, it's crazy, it's crazy, because, yeah.

“- Fear, if, like, if death is, like, is, like, I'm thinking about death and this, I'm gonna tell you, yeah, that's what, I'm just, I can't have both.”

- It's gonna be weird with the ad event of the AI point now, because I wonder if the guys are gonna be like, "Well, it's not a fucking woman, actually."

- Yeah, I don't creep, I, AI people kinda creep me out, like, when I see them, I'm always kinda like, it gives me a go weird.

- It's gonna get to the point though, you, there's, I think it's indistinguishable. - Yeah, and again, even that, it's like, what is the point of this? What does it say, and if it's just to be, like, I'm just trying to fucking comment, it's like, "Okay, you, you can do this, you can't be like, you know, but, I don't know, it's tough, it's tough, 'cause, again, for myself, it's like, and it's like, it's kind of almost a curse, I have a high libido, so I'm like, I would, like, I don't always tell my wife like, "I need to fucking go."

- And I genuinely get to the point where I, I like, will have trouble sleeping, like, for, like, it's purely physiological, like, I can't fucking sleep,

and I know exactly what it is. So I get that, and there's like, you know, but for me, it's like, you know, and that's, just however you wanna play it, you know, it's like,

I don't know, you just gotta figure out it, it's not like, if you do this, your life will be ruined, but it's like, if you way heavy on one side or if it's just way heavy on another, it's like, personally, I feel like, just standing from it in general. - Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of guys who are looking at porn, who have, on the, like, you know, you look at that guy's life in that back guy, that's a great life.

“- He's showing. - He's like, and I'm sure, here's the thing, he is a good husband, and he is a good father.”

- I would be a fool to condemn a porn user. - Yeah, he's like, you're, that's like, trust me, yeah. - No, but there's, again, but there's, like, we talked about, like, there are, like, levels to this, like, you could love a lot, like, you could, like, you'll probably be a better husband and a better father, if you. - I agree, I think that's a fair way to do. - You can kick it. - We'll do. - What's a, what's a munch, I'm just getting some lunch. - Let's do it. - All right. - How do you guys, everybody? - Cool, thanks anything else you want to-

- Oh yeah, join Relay.app, can I plug it? - Yeah, please. - Do it, do it. Um, like I said, to the guys who, actually are, you know, fucking in it, who need, you know, some helper, the guys who are just like, this isn't fucking real. Um, I don't know, just try it out. Um, yeah, I'm also going to start with, there's Beehive, uh, newsletter where I'm not going to actually talk about porn, but I'm going to talk about other ways to, uh, improve your life.

“- Nice. - I thought you're talking about the Beyonce fan base. - No, what the fuck?”

- Oh, is that what I, dude, I do not, is that real? - Yeah. - Oh, that's funny. - That's true? - Yeah, the Beehive. - The Beehive is the Beyonce fan base. - Well, yeah, so I'm certain, uh, Beehive newsletter about Beyonce and Oliver, happenings and what she's doing, no, um, yeah, I'm going to, probably call it take it or leave it. - There you go. - Yeah, take it or leave it. Um, so, yeah, even, I don't know, fucking shit, but I do know

like what I fucked up at, so. - There you go. - Yeah, so yeah, but join really dot app. I think the guys, what is it? Um, MSSP, that's a little promo code you can use that I. - Oh, nice. - Yeah, yeah, so put that. We'll give you a free trial. If you don't like it, you don't think it fucking does anything. We'll give you your money back, so. - Beautiful. - Yeah, man, thanks for having me. - Of course, thank you.