Kier Gaines: Why Healing Starts With the Truth You Keep Avoiding

and I think we're getting more desperate for attention,

“but I think the more we look for attention in notoriety,”

the less we hold on to some semblance of integrity and reality. And ultimately, I don't know why a humanist goes after that. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode to make fun of it and today we are in for it. Like, we are going to be talking to a guest.

That's a prominent voice in health and wellness. Diving deep into personal development and sightful, he's impactful, and he's done something that he doesn't know yet that we're going to talk about it. This actually changed my life.

We're talking to none other than the amazing Mr. Keer Games.

Keer, how are you doing today, brother? I don't go, Mick, what's good with you, brother? Thank you for having me on, man. Thank you for being here. I'm honored. There's some things we're going to talk about,

but I have to give you your flowers, bro. Like, I'm all about that, especially when we talk about mental health, which I know is the space you dominate. And we're going to talk about your amazing journey.

“But, bro, I've been following you for a while.”

And you said something that you were going through that made me pause and I was like, "I'm implementing this in my life right now," you said that you told someone they were hurting your feeling. And when you said that, bro,

every ounce of pride and ego that I had, I was able to step to the side, because I understood the power of that.

And so, I just want to thank you for giving me that power

as a man, as a black man, to be able to let somebody know, "Hey, that just hurt my feelings." I love you for that, brother. Hey, man, I love the fact that you picked up on that you were able to do something with it.

It's such a hard thing to admit. Especially as a man, and especially especially as a black man, because there is this motif of being a penetrable that I think is a sign of us. And it's unfair, man.

It's unfair because you're still a person. You're still a human, but when you put that motif on for so long, you start to believe that it's true. And after a while, you don't acknowledge all feelings. And then there's this other part of it too,

met where, when you admit to somebody that they hurt your feelings, now they got the power to do whatever with that, they want. Whatever they want, they can say, "Man, put up your feelings. Just continue to steam, bro. You, right."

You know, they can lessen, they can see you as weak, and just avoid any type of conflict with you after that. It's really a mark of bravery to be able to miss something like that. It's still hard for me to admit. So I, man, I loved that, bro.

I loved that so much that that was able to help you. I'm glad that you gave me the power to do that. I know that there are people that are watching that are listening right now. I'm letting you know, it's okay to let someone or someone's plural.

Know that they hurt your feelings, because feelings are real. Oh, yeah. And that's what Kia taught me, man. Like, the emotions that we have, the feelings that we have, they're all real, and a lot of times we keep that bottle in,

and it makes it worse and worse and worse. And then we put ourselves in darker places, because we don't give ourselves the authority to communicate back to others. And so again, I applaud you for that, bro.

“Now, right on, man, I think the authority piece”

is the perfect characterization of what that is. It's, uh, it's giving yourself permission. And for me, just the way I grew up, the hardest part

I gave myself that authority is I always confused someone

who has hurt feelings with someone who solved the week. So, oh, no, I was, I was still beat you up. [laughs] Right, right? No, that's not what this is.

It's the acknowledgement of what's going on inside of me. And I think just being a man is so much about what you can control in your external universe, what you can manipulate for financial and economic gain, and how you could be seen, how you could be loved and respected.

But, kind of love respect yourself, and norm people know how to love or respect you. Hey, bro, I ain't like when you did that. You don't have to always say it that way. You hurt my feelings.

And for those that don't know, I share that with my wife. She wasn't my wife at the time. She was my girlfriend. I ain't the way you talking to me. He's hurting my feelings.

Which is counting on two of the ways that a lot of us are cultural lives, man. So, thank you, man. I appreciate that. I'm glad that was able to do something for you, brother.

Absolutely, man. Absolutely. So, care, man, I start every episode by asking my guests a very specific question, and I had all the accomplishments and life that you've had,

and the things that you do that we see publicly, but a lot of things that you do that we don't see, man.

You are a powerhouse when it comes to mental wellness,

and you really give back and help. And so, my question to you is what I ask everybody. Like, what's your because? That thing that's deeper than your wife, right? Like, Simon Sinek told us to start with why.

Awesome.

“But I think that as you continue to answer that question and go deeper,”

what usually happens is you say, oh, this is my wife, because X, Y, and Z. And I care about what you say after you say the word because. So, if I were to say, care games, man. Like, all the things that you do, the continuation

of giving back and pouring in and trying to make this universe better, what's your because?

What's your purpose today, brother?

Because why not? Because why not? I think that I realize very early that I'm a pretty good translator, where I can take things in a pretty complicated and I can put it at I level so that it's digestible for folks.

Why not? Why not have a better understanding so that you have a chance of the better relationship? Why not have a better understanding of where your feelings work so that you can anticipate them before they get there and that you can manage on one's day on top of you

and then that you can maintain some sense of emotional stability once they're gone. So, you're not just beating yourself up for what you didn't say in the argument. Why not? Why not? Why not have the opportunity to know yourself

about it as you changed through all time and you go to grief and you go through experiences and you go through hurt, you go through happiness. Why not? I don't understand why not. Yeah, I love that dude.

I love that.

And when did you realize when did you first sit down and say,

"Hey, I want to share with the world and go deeper."

“Because I've heard you talk a lot about depth, right?”

Like a lot of times these are the words of making me go on me. I think with AI now, everybody can sound really good on a subject. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you can write to some of this. But they're not going deep into it and that's where I can find out who's real and who's not.

When did you know that mental wellness was going to be a space that you were going deep into? That's a good question, mate. I feel like it, when I learned how important it was in my own life and I learned, you know, you have a, like when you're in a college class or when you're in any type of training and you walk in,

you have an understanding of whatever subject you're about to go into. Like, I know what I'm talking about. And then the more than the structure talks, the more you realize, "Oh, I was on level 150." I thought I knew everything.

But there's a science to the science that I don't understand yet. And I think as I started to accumulate life, you know. Like I said, my girlfriend at the time, we found that we were pregnant. She's my wife now, but this was seven, eight years ago. I started trying to figure out what it is.

I wanted to do with my life. I tried to better understand who I was and how I worked and why did the things I did. And the more I would come to these understanders, the more I realized it was still so much more to go. And I realized that when we spread the problem wide, and we talk about it in a very wide way, but we don't talk about it deeply.

We don't get anything done. We just feel good about discussing it. And that didn't feel complete to me. It didn't feel fulfilling. So, I started just like how you don't ask the why you asked the because.

I started saying, "And then what?"

“Well, you need to be aware of these things that you think it feels.”

Okay? And then what? Well, once you're aware of these things you think it feels, you have to start being able to try to determine how they affect you. Okay? And then what? Well, once you determine how they affect you, you have to determine how they affect the people around you. Okay? And then what? And when you keep asking, and then what?

If you're not only drilling deeper to get to the bottom of the problem, but you're also casting a wide net of your own understanding. So, that you're not just moving in a way that satisfies your most surface-level urges, you know, the desire to be better, desire to be loved, seen, and respected.

But you can walk into a feeling of self-love, into a feeling of self-respect. You can, and I just say, "Hey, I'm, man, I got these people pleasing tendencies. You can be honest, you got self-honesty, which I've read about in my book." In the self-honesty says, "Hey, I'm afraid that people will abandon me, if I don't allow them to just, you know, do the thing, uninterrupted."

And then you ask, "Okay, and then what happens when they abandon you?"

But I'm about solutions. I see the problem. What do we want to do about it, man? That's it.

“That's what kind of me to start on this journey.”

Hey, so, you talk about the book and we're just going to go there now. So, before I knew you were writing a book in a huge fan of you, and if people would have asked me, tell me about what you love about them, what you like about them. I would have said this right here. "Cherre makes me think about the most uncomfortable truths."

And so, I caught the segment of the show. I actually called the unplug truth. Based on me talking about you, so I'm breaking news right now.

So, the second segment of my show, I always call the unplug truth.

And I got it from you because you made me think about uncomfortable truths, right? The things we don't want to tell ourselves or accept about ourselves. That's right. And so, then now let's talk about this book. It all starts when you do.

To me is the most uncomfortable unplugged, ever, ever, ever, ever stated because, and we're going to go into the book. But just the title, it all starts when you do. It just opens up so much internal uncomfortable in this, bro. All right. We have the answer that question.

Yeah. Are we going to start? Are we going to start? Are we going to start?

“How are we going to start? When are we going to start?”

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Let me do a better job of being a book person and move the book into frame. But it's, it's, um, yeah, uncomfortable truths.

One of my uncomfortable truths is when I'm really focused, I'm going to forget stuff. So I'm going to forget to move my book in the frame. And instead of just killing myself over it and just be, oh, man, I'm so stupid. I'm so dumb. Say, hey, how can we do this differently next time?

Yeah. You try to give myself some grace. Some people have an uncomfortable truth of not admitting when they're overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed. You can't say that. Why? Because you feel like it is a scathing and

indictment on your capability. If you're overwhelmed, maybe you ain't got a capacity. Because you're too weak. Or you're not deserving. Nah, it's not about my capacity.

It's too much going on. It's too much for one human ahead. You know, and I finally sometimes people who have these behaviors that aren't healthy, you know, adaptive, you know, they'll say rude stuff on a flamatory or hurtful things to you. And they just say, oh, that's, that's just the way I am.

And one of the uncomfortable truth is it's too late for me to change. No, it's not the final change. You don't have to massively change all the time. And you don't have to change who you are. Sometimes you just change a few things that you do.

Let that be the sample test and see what happens after that. So in my mind, and with the clients that I see in therapy, one of the more reassuring observations that I have of folks

is that the biggest breakthrough that you need is oftentimes on the other side of one of your

most difficult challenges. And those difficult challenges are usually framed in an uncomfortable truth that you, you do not want to confront your void in it. And we got a lot of avoidant language that makes us okay with avoidance. And that's that's cool until it's not.

But what you don't the way to go through it is to go through it, bro.

“Like it's that's the only way you can go around it, but it's still going to be there.”

And I don't like the boogey man chasing me down. I don't like you ever heard of this thing. It's my daughter's mind and there's this like tale of a snail. It's like you take some type of deal. And a turtle will snail follows you for the rest of your life.

And if it touches you, it's like poison or something. And like, oh, I just let the turtle follow me for life. But you, because it's slow. You went and think there's ever going to catch you. But you have something chasing you for the rest of your life.

You never know a moment of peace.

And that's how I feel about uncomfortable choosing a left on a table. Dude, I love that. And that, like we're going to talk to the audience. We're going to talk to the people that are listening that are watching. Because I know, personally, there's somebody on the other end that's like,

that sounds great. I love it conceptually. How do I get started then? How do I get started with no longer a boarding? How do I get started accepting that?

Yeah, it really does start when I do. How do I take that first step to put hands on that wall to really start pushing in the new ring? So, I'm going to give you the floor brother because this is your world. This is your domain, you're the expert late. There's a person right now that needs this key.

No, no problem. Let's start with two light loads. I used to be a personal trainer.

Let's start with some jumping jacks. Two things that you can immediately do, or immediately pay attention to. One is the awareness, awareness you have towards those things. So, being aware that the fact that you put things off is starting to affect the way that you obtain your goals.

Or, your loyalty to a certain people is starting to affect your ability to grow your own willingness to put yourself out there has maybe happened your mobility in the job market. Maybe you're not what you want to be. Maybe your inability to make the right decision has pigeonholed you into a life that does not feel good on your skin.

Some people just can blame it on everything. Or, you know, the universe didn't work out. Or, it just wasn't time. Or, you know, it just wasn't meant to be. Yeah.

“I think it's the awareness of no, I made that mistake.”

No, I didn't try hard enough. No, I didn't do the best that I could. It's the awareness why knowing that that awareness is not going to feel good. Because the next thing you're going to need on top of that is the mechanism to get yourself out of a tail spin, which is a whole another conversation.

But first, it's awareness when we're talking about starting.

And the other thing that you can do right now, when you know what I'm saying, let me say one more piece about awareness. Awareness is also not just allowing the thing to exist. And you just kind of make a mental note of it, calling out my calling out loud. I'm procrastinating again, I'm supposed to do that.

I'm supposed to do this work two hours ago. And I'm procrastinating because I do not want to do it. I have to, but I do not want to do it. It's telling the truth of the situation, even though it doesn't feel good to say. But I see you, I see you procrastination, you can't hide from me.

You're right there, and I'm calling you out loud verbally. It's not just living in my head, I'm saying it out loud. That's the first thing you could do to start. The second thing you could do is start to become curious.

Curiosity is such an amazing characteristic to hold.

Because not only does it allow you to see something difficult, it really can lose you to think about the why. So you start moving around it. And when you get really curious, and when your curiosity turns internal, like introspective, we call that self-attirigation of automatic thoughts.

So it's interrogating the first thing you think. The first thing you think, you just usually allow the shoot from the hip, like a Western feel, just bang. No, no, no, no, that's just my first thought. That's the rough draft.

You don't get to get to the world. You don't get to the world as the rough draft. Well, I wonder why I think that I wonder when narrative is attached to that.

“When do I first remember starting to think this way?”

Who else are my life thinks this way, who influences me? And interrogating your automatic thoughts and being aware of the thoughts that you have are two really good starting points to get something inertia, and to get some momentum so that you can start moving in the direction that you want to move to. Not just being stagnant in the ways that your life is either trained or conditioned you to be.

That's why you're here, brother. Like, that's, I promise you somebody needed that, man. And I'm going to tell you, so this is me getting personal on how you help me. Let's get personal, man. So my uncomfortable truth moment, you help me overcome me.

You didn't even realize it, right? Like, I've seen and followed you forever. Thank you, man. I realize, and I know that there are a lot of people out there, especially if you're entrepreneur, if you have a business, if you do any type of consulting.

And I'd be curious to get your part, your take on this, too. You help me understand that as much good as I wanted to do in the world, I can't do everything for free. And here's what I mean. It was real easy for me to say, oh, yeah, I'll help you with that.

And it's my business, right? So if I've got a business that teaches emotional intelligence, if I've got businesses that develop AI, like if you were a friend or a buddy, I'd be like, yeah, I'll help you with that. I'll do that. I won't charge you.

But it would eat at me because the same amount of time and energy and effort that I was giving a client, that was paying me $50,000 or $100,000. I'm giving my buddies, friends, people I liked, I do it for free. And I know people are like, make that sounds weird. You want to charge for anything you do.

But when I tell you the energy key that goes into doing the same thing,

“I started filling awkward of, well, how can I charge someone x?”

But then I do the same thing for someone for free.

And mentally, it was eating at me of, and here's what you help me overcome.

You can pay like everyone else pays and get the best of everything that I do.

“And it really sucked to tell someone, no, yeah, I get really, really sucked to tell someone, no,”

because my heart, the heart that I have, is I never want to leave anyone.

If I make it to the top, I want everybody to come to the top with me. But anybody is not willing to do that work. And it, it made me understand or it made me believe and start to see. Not that purposely I was getting used. I'm not saying it that way, put people understood that I probably was going to say yes.

Oh, they knew that dynamic, yeah, of course. And you helped me, you helped me with that uncomfortable truth of, hey, Mick, can't be nice to everybody and that was really hard. And people may seem like, yeah, that's a easy switch to turn on and turn off. But when you, when you are me and the heart that I had, like, it was tough, bro.

But now I can promise you I've overcome that. And people that know we now are like, oh, I'm not, I'm not going to Mick. Unless I'm ready to go to Mick and I'm willing to invest in myself to be the better version. That's right, because you know them. You know some interest in that you said, and I'm not trying to theorizing, but you said,

you can't be nice to everyone. In my mind, allowing friends to get services from you.

“And if you're not just putting no you understand, is it a personal?”

Allow my friends to get services from you that you pay for. That's not nice in this to me, necessarily. I think there is an element of kindness to it. But when it becomes hurtful to you in your business, I don't know what word to put around that. But being a firm is not the opposite of being a nice.

And I think that's a tough thing, especially when you got a big heart. I got a big heart too, man, and I had a learning to be more firm with people. Because folks as he can come speak here, can you come do this? And it's different. It's not like I'm building something that takes me 25 years to build.

And then there's a lot of like that obvious and time-consuming work. It feels like I'm just going to go do a speech. Or yeah, sure, I can go to talk to your school. I can talk to you, not a profit. But what happens is, my currency is time now.

So I will spread it myself very thin.

And now, every second that I spend out of house, out of the house is time away from my family.

It's time away from my wife. It's time away from my hobbies. It's time away from my peace. And me saying no to that opportunity isn't me not being nice. It's me being protective of the things that I am assigned to protect.

And my business is the thing that I'm assigned to protect. And if I'm 145, I've ran on free speaking events. When I have this big one that they... Because you know, when they start paying, you make they want you to... You got to sell up, right?

Yeah, yeah, you got to sell up. You got to show out, you have to perform in deliver. And it's hard to do that when you're banned with it's low. So now, I'm glad you did that. And one of the things I did to overcome that is when my friends have things.

I got a friend who's a professional photographer. But as soon as we call, I talk money first. A bro send me a quote, send me a quote of how much you want to charge me for this.

“Because I believe that if you do something really well, you should not be doing it for free.”

Capitalism be damn. I'm sorry.

That's always been my mantra.

I just thought other people would resonate it back. And I got firm. I think that's better. That's a better way to say it. I definitely got firm. Yeah.

It's not comfortable though. It's not comfortable all the time, but you got to practice it. It's not like you practiced it enough then. Oh, yeah, you're good at it. You're just, yeah, yeah, you get good at the things you practice for show.

Care, man. Like, again, huge followers, huge fan. I want to go into some hot takes now. And by hot takes, it's nothing crazy. Here we go. But make you want any canceled man, is that what we do?

Nope. Not doing that at all. This is me again, giving you your flowers because my hottest take of the day is this. I trust career gains because one who's going to tell me the truth.

And two, this is a hot take. He has the credentials to back it up. Oh, yeah, and so I don't think people understand the depth of having like licensed credentials. I'm not talking about credentials of 200 people say,

"Kia is hot. You got to go follow him. You got to go listen to him." I don't mean credentials of Google reviews or or social media followers during engagement. I mean, like real ask credentials, bro.

Yeah, like like licenses, continuing education of those licenses.

Does it piss you off when others, and I'm not talking about anybody

particularly, and I know there's been some news like I'm not even talking about that. I'm just saying, it's real easy for people to put air quotes for those that are listening about watching credentials behind their name. Man, like, but for somebody that's done to work, let's talk about credentials, man.

“Your question was does it piss me off when people do that?”

Yeah, no, it doesn't piss me off. I get a little disappointed. I get disappointed and I get a concern.

I get disappointed because I think that we're living in a really interesting

anti-intellectual moment right now, where the the opportunity gap is so wide. And there's so many people on the not receiving in of the opportunity, whether it's the opportunity for the education of college, whether it's opportunity to gain certain skills, the opportunity to learn how to research because Googling something is not research.

It's just it's Googling, you know, that's not what research is. Research, real research can't be found just in the simple Google search. It's not how it works.

“But I think there's so many people who aspire to be, who don't have the opportunity to be,”

that when someone comes, when someone is visible and they say, ah, you know, credentials don't matter or, you know, you don't have to go to college. Like the anti-intellectual rhetoric, it makes them feel like, oh, well, if you say that and you're there, then it's possible for me too. You know, I read on a six grade level because I was in a state with terrible education

and I got socially promoted and I would love to be where you are. And you're saying that intellectualism is not the barrier between where I am and where you are. It makes me feel like this thing is possible for me. But that's a lie, man. That's a lie and the soul is so much deception. So I get disappointed, but now I get concerned because credentials are there for a reason.

I know we're getting taught all the time that these things don't matter or, they're in constant quintu, okay, I guess, but there's a lot of protection for people there, you know, there's one thing to say, even in my field, it's one thing to say, I'm a therapist and that's cool. It's one thing to say, I'm a coach, you can, you can call yourself whatever,

but when you have taken the test and you have received the training and you have received the mentorship and the guidance and you have the hours. I mean, the hours of practice and you can replicate that. You can't replicate that. So then it becomes a safety concern when you're in front of people like a postpartum mother, when you're front of people like a man who has self-harm and behaviors,

“when you're in front of people that says, hey, man, I think, what do you, you said you're talking”

all that, okay, a man says to front of you. It says, man, I've been abusing my wife for the last five years. What do you do? If you're not trained and you haven't taken those continuum education units and you haven't been mentored properly and you haven't sat across from someone who's dealt with that and walked them through it or someone who's been on the receiver end of abuse and walked them through that to some type of self-hailing and you don't know what you're doing

and we can say whatever we want on the internet, but when it comes to helping people and being the therapist is about helping people because the money is not good. That's not, don't probably get here to be rich. If you can't really make a meaningful change in those people's lives, what are you doing? What is all of it for? It's just the attention economy concerns me and I think we're getting more desperate for attention and I think, and I'm not talking about anybody

in particular because this applies to many, many, many folks, but I think the more we look for attention and notoriety, the less we hold on to some semblance of integrity and morality and

ultimately, I don't know where humanness goes after that. No man, and I love that you brought

up the intellectualism because I literally was in a debate three weeks ago. On that same topic and I used very similar words to you and I, because I get asked all the time like the college change your life, could you have been where you are without college? I'm like, wait, are you talking about the social aspect of college? The intellectual aspect of college because those are two different things, for sure. Those are two different things and I could say maybe I didn't or maybe one

helped me in a way that an other didn't. But what's critically important to me, I don't care what filled your end. Even if it's not college, great. But are you continuously learning? Are you continuously getting those credentials and whatever field that you're in because to me credentials are safety and

was this. You get arrested. Do you want a cookie that can go AI and get some answers for you?

Or do you want an actual credentialed past the bar attorney? That's right. Because here's what

happens with credentialing. And this is why I believe in it. This is why intellectualism is so important to me and you hit on it. When something goes left, I need that licensed person that understands why it's going left, how to steer it back, how to how to make the pivots and changes

“that are needed because that's their profession and that's what they do. Not someone who can go”

Google search someone or put something into clutter or whatever and get a response. It's going to sound great. It's going to sound like, yep, I know what I'm talking about. But usually those perfect scenarios don't exist and that's why you get the licenses. That's why you further the education.

You continue the education because, and I know that you know this, some law might have changed

in the past six months, right? That now you can't say this word or this medicine exists that didn't exist and now we got to verify to make sure that it works. If you're not going through continuously educating yourself, keeping up with the proper credentials, not only are you outdated, but now you've eliminated safety and protection for the people that you're supposed to be there. Absolutely. It says that I am a Biden, the creditor said I am a Biden by a set of guidelines

and rules that have been put in place by a governing body of experts and they deem me fit to do this duty. Not only that, but if I don't do it well, I am going to be held responsible. I'm going to be held responsible if I hurt someone or if I take someone off of the path

“that they choose and look, the craziest thing about it for me is I think that the hours of practice”

is what we kind of sleep on. I think if I'm not mistaken, I could be wrong about this. I think therapists in order to get our licenses and some states have a similar number of flight hours to a pilot. I don't think a commercial pilot, but I think a pilot. You know, it's it's cool to land a plane when there's 70 in sunny. You don't know.

Turn it off. Yeah, what about when the wind is blowing 40 miles by, I would know if I know if the west and the zero visibility in this hell coming down and you can't get a test with a radio control tower. Everybody still needs to get to the ground safely. So the training matters, but I also think intellectualism kind of did this to itself by being so exclusionary. You know, sometimes people who are of a higher IQ or higher understanding or more worldly or

more culture look down on people who aren't. And I said this on threads, you say, I say, I love when people intelligently disagree with me. I love that, but keep in mind, intelligent doesn't mean more educated. Right. Yeah. And it just like smarter doesn't mean articulate. I don't know plenty of smart people that are my grandmother was not an articulate woman, but she was a brilliant woman, different, different. So I think we kind of did it to ourselves with kind of like this

more superiority, value, and virtual signal and type thing, and also think, you know, the political the place that I country is in politically also adds fuel to that fire. You know, we're here in this from the highest stations. I hate that type of education. It's not important. But people who have that type of education, I just, it's fascinating, man. It's fascinating how you can control what people think by, by leaning into what they believe and repeating the same thing over and over.

You can really bend people. You can make, you can break people by doing that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Kia, man. Like, I've always wanted to ask you this question. And so this segment, I'm going to call the room. Was there a room, a moment, a dinner, a lunch and a meeting that truly changed your life?

Like, I can always go back to the first time that I met Damon John and I had a conversation in my life

change, because I realized that there were paths that I needed to take. I realized that, oh, it's all about

“action. It's never about words. And I will never forget that room in that moment. Was there a room?”

Was there a moment? Was there a meeting that you can look back at? There was like, this changed the trajectory of my life from my career. I don't know if it was a room or a meeting necessarily. You know what? It was a conversation. It changed the trajectory of my life in a unlikely way.

has left my old barber because the energy was just bad, telling the dude, man. But the energy just

“wasn't there. I always left the chair for the worst thing I did when I came in. It's negative, man.”

So negative. And I floated in between the barber from that one. I landed at this guy, now. And he, there was a point where I was afraid to take my career to the next level, kind of afraid to tell people what to do because I didn't want to say the wrong thing. Because the therapist really don't tell people what to do. I was afraid to expand. I wanted to offer courses. I mean, I can't charge somebody for a course. That doesn't make sense.

Why would you, who would pay for that? And he's more of like my own goal, like finance type of new. And they do like the funnels and all these matrix scenes to make sure people buy. And that's not my ministry. Like it's right. If I could, I would democratize wellness and have

“everything I say and do be free for everyone forever. But that's not sustainable. You know, it's hard”

to record on these nice cameras when your family's homeless. So he really got me comfortable with the idea that your mind is a commodity. Like your mind is the commodity. And the things that you think obvious are not obvious to everybody. And I knew that. But to hear the dude giving you a shape up tell you something like that, it changed the way that I see what I could be in this business, not just someone who has good ideas, but someone who can actually be a change maker, someone who can

actually have an offering that extends beyond an Instagram page. Yeah, man, shout out to Charles, Charles and my barber. He's a brilliant dude, man. I think he opened my eyes to that. It's crazy. All these big rooms I've been in to be the one when I'm sitting down to get a haircut to change my life, right? Getting the dark season. Let's have this conversation with this shape up. That's right. I love it. Barbershop conversations, man. Life change and bro. Life change. We talk about family.

“We talk about our kids. We talk about ourselves. We hold each other accountable. It's the only thing”

as a husband, father, entrepreneur. God, what else do I do? Media personnel. All the stuff, all the stuff I have. That's the only thing that I do just for myself. There's a cut. There it is. Well, before I get you out of here with my rapid fire top five, I got to be remiss if I don't bring it up again. It all starts when you do. Everybody do me a favor. Let's go pre-order this book now. This book will be a New York Times bestseller so you don't want to try to order it when it's too late.

Let's go get it right now. I'm going to do this here, man. Because I believe in the mission of everything that you do and I love this book and where it's going, the first 20 people that message me, I'm starting. And okay, if you do it on LinkedIn, if you don't Instagram, but message me, I'm starting. I'm going to personally buy a copy of this book for you. Oh, because that's going

to be life changing. That's going to be a different do. But not only do you have incredible lighting

over there. Like, I see you glowing, bro. You got to drop the scan care routine. You got to be like an action over there. That's, man, anybody who's listening makes audience, man. It's not many people you meet in this business that come across this authentically. That's rare, man. Thank you, sincerely. I know that this is like it's like a whole thing when you're doing a book and let's just put a current real quick. When you're on tour and you're doing a book and you're selling a book,

it's really about the thing that you're trying to get people to have this product in that in your hands so you can be successful. I'm trying to get people to get this in the hands, so they can be successful. You know, yeah, it's going to do that. So I appreciate you, brother, real talk. I appreciate that. I appreciate you back. I appreciate you back. And another thing, too, and I meant to do this earlier because I've listened to the, what nine episodes deep now,

new podcast. It was some amazing things with the podcast, too. So I need everybody here,

name of the podcast, so they got it. Learn the hard way. Learn the hard way. Go follow it. Apple, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you stream your podcast is, it's a really, really dope, really inspiring, really factual show. I love it from beginning to end. So yeah, everybody makes sure that you are subscribing to that podcast. So I meant to, I meant to, I meant to do that earlier in the intro, bro. All in the good time at bro. No worries. There it is. All right, I'm going to get you

Hey, yeah. What is your favorite restaurant in DC? In DC? In chocolate city. God,

day. Oh, man, you put me on. Oh, you know, my favorite restaurant in DC is, um, what's my favorite restaurant? How do I make you smoke me with this one? What's my favorite plate out the gate? Hi. Yeah, man. You came off the top row with the metal chair. There is a restaurant called Sequoia. It is on 14th street. It's a sushi restaurant. Oh, okay. I got cool with the chef, man. And they got this tour all of you. Sushi guy, but they got this fatty tuna. They hit it with

the blow torch. Squeeze a little orange zest on it, man. It's sushi so fresh. Got great new dishes. My favorite place to eat in the city. Right. I'm going to check. I'm back in DC in a couple months. So I'm going to be up there. Oh, hit me up. I'll show you the time. Let's do it. Let's do it. Who was the better cook in the household? You were wifey. Oh, my wife is a Haitian woman. Have you a Haitian food before? I have. I don't be the ask anymore question. I'm getting embarrassed over here.

Up there to her. She's amazing. That's one of the first things she did was cook from your home

your dating. And I tasted her coconut jasmine, Bosmati rice and I was like, yeah, I ain't going away. I'm cooking the last again. Yeah. I give up. I retired. I retired. All right. Question number three bro. What is a book you recommend that is not your book? It all starts when you do. Can I do two? You sure can. One is I'm reading this book right now code. You know what

“now? Let's let's start here. I'm going to recommend atomic habits. I think that's okay.”

How many habits is a good one? The coddling of the American mind by Jonathan hate. I'm reading back to the list right now. Oh, yeah, caught on the American mind. That's a pretty good one. And for black men specifically, black boy smile by de-walkins is a really good book and also long way down by by Jason Reynolds is a really good book. I didn't that one to the list too. Yeah, I'm a huge reason. Black men need to read more fiction in my other way. I truly believe that. Yeah, agree, agree.

In wellness, what's one trend that needs to be challenged? Like what's one trend you're seeing that is like, I don't know if I agree with that one. In wellness? Yeah. Walk away from the things that don't serve you. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that's well dressed avoidance.

“Sometimes things don't serve you. You need to walk away from them. But be curious about the things”

that don't serve you. Why don't they serve you? Is it that they don't serve you anymore? Is it that you change? Is it that they change? Is it that things change the around you? I think that we easily give up and walk away from things that can be enforced. Yeah, it is. I like it. I like it. Last one key. But your story is being written right now. I believe that. What are two words that you

want to make sure to find who you are and your legacy? Oh, well, I'm always weird about legacy

because I feel like it's useful for me to make that enjoy. I believe that, too. I believe that, too. I would say, I would say authentic. I don't think there's anything that's more of a nod to your lineage than you mean who you are, who you really are and consistent, man. I think there's one thing to show up. But if you could show up in different areas in the same way with the same server, with the same velocity, with the same love and the same internal impact, I think that

says a lot about you, man. So authenticity and consistency. I think those are gone, too. What about you? Would it be your, too? Man, mine is is very simple. Kept promises. If I give you a promise,

“I'm going to keep it doing that. Yeah. And that's what I want my two words. I care promises,”

man. I love that, man. I'm changing my mind's kept promises now. I'm stunning. I ain't even the baggie. I made it up. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. We haven't been that out now,

And I just to the world with to ourselves, too. Yeah, because what that's allowed me to do,

“is actually make the right promises, right? Like, if I tell somebody, I promise, like, I know”

I'm going to keep, which means I don't say it a lot, right? Because I'm not just going to inflate

something. I'm not going to over promise and under deliver. So if I give you my word,

like, trust him, everything that that's in me, it's going to keep that word. That makes it

mean. Well, no, that's brilliant, man. I love that. Yes, sir. Well, Kia, man, I know how busy you are. I know you got so much going on. I'm completely honored to have you on. Everybody's over. LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, go do that. We have links to the book in the show notes and

“descriptions. Remember the first 20 people that message me that you are starting. So I'm starting.”

I'm going to make sure you get 20 copies. If you're number 21, number 51, whatever, just go about the book. It's okay. Amazon, Barnes and Noble. Every Wednesday's on your local bookstore, just go get the book because it's going to change your life. And it's a book that's going to

“actually help you. It's a book meant for you. And I think that's why I love the intentionality around”

the book. So, yeah, I appreciate you. Man, thank you for seeing that. That's why I wrote the book. I appreciate you, mate. Absolutely. Absolutely. To all the viewers and listeners, remember, your becaus is your superpower. Go on, Lisa.