The San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre

Oh, my god, Paulin' is destroying everybody's lives somewhere here. Is Paulin' eating your insides alive? Yeah, it's Paulin' - it'll raise your hand if you've been personally victimized by Paulin' and everybody shoots hands in the air. Paulin' is rough right now.

“We had an air quality alert yesterday that was like, "Hey, you should probably stay inside."”

I'm getting murdered by Paulin' - Yeah, like it's bad. It's really, really bad.

I've never had allergies this bad in my life.

I've never had allergies, Korean really, and I do be having not only allergies, but guess what, I have asthma. Yeah, all of a sudden the doctor said, "Honey, yeah have asthma." And I said, "I haven't had asthma since I was a child. I thought it went away."

And they said, "No." He said, "It doesn't quite work like that." So, Elena's taking one from the team and she took the up for me. Because I'm hacking up along, I'm out of breath. Yeah, there was no way I was going to make her talk for an entire hour.

So, however long this will be. Honestly, you guys wouldn't have wanted to hear it. Yeah. We don't need her hacking all over, you know? I don't want to hack on you in what you're going through with pollen already. Yeah, you know?

But I do have something for you. Yeah, because it's my birthday today if you're listening. Yeah. It's like a couple days from now. But if you're listening, when this comes out,

it'll be ashes birth there. So, we have a sale for you on the morbid merch store, which is at serious. Let me actually give you the actual website. Okay, so it's literally just serious.

XM store and then there's another one for if you don't live in this country. And that's in our Instagram aisle. Yeah, but the if you use the code as sale, ASH sale, then you can get 25% off your order. Yeah, just really fun. We have a couple new things in the store.

Yeah, the candle, which smells so fucking good. We picked the scent specifically. We did. We have the horned hoodie, which I'm really excited about. We have the nickel issue. If you're a nickelist supporter, I love the nickelist shirt.

I've also seen a lot of you coming around on nickels. I have two and it warms my heart. Yeah, it really does. And this shirt is how you can show your support. Show your support for for good old Saint Nick. Yeah.

Who is not Saint Nick, but he's our Nick. He's our Saint Nick. We need to post that video from when we unpacked the printer.

“Oh, yeah, because I think I think we can speed it up a little bit.”

Yeah. And I think Nicholas visited us. Yeah, I think Nicholas was helping me put away stuff from the printer that I was unboxing. And he was like, you have more room in this box. Let me push this stuff down for you.

Because I was sitting there just watching as all of the packing stuff was being slowly pushed down. And it was all like obviously things rustle. We put them back in a box.

So at first we were like, okay, maybe it's just that.

But then it continued for three minutes. Yeah. And like, there was like one specific part in the video. We're just like, boom. Yeah, just pushes really pushes down like aggressively. So we're, I'm going to post the sped up version of this.

This is a little strange. Yeah. A little strange. Paranormal, if you will. But yeah, use that code, Ash, sale.

If only 25% off, that's a good deal. It's pretty sick. So if you were waiting, it's almost like I'm turning 25. Almost for you're not. I'm not.

I'm not. Look at her, right now she's calling me old. I'm just going to say you've had fun. I'm fine now. Ash is the big three.

Oh, everybody's five by 20's. I am. I'm having a funeral for my talk. Yes.

“Honestly, 30s are when things get awesome.”

I'm so ready to leave my 20s in the dust. A lot of great things happened like in the later years of my 20s. But like, they're early to mid of my 20s. Quite mid. Quite mid, quite mid, if you will.

Oh, well, we have a today.

This was Ash's case at first.

So I got the pleasure of breathing this going. Oh, I said, here I did half of this. Nice to meet you. Oh, my God. Yeah, so I read through this and said, oh, my, yeah, I'm sorry.

We're covering the Sandy Sea Drow McDonald's Massacre today. This is a really, really brutal. Yes. I would like to give a big, big trigger warning right off the bat. I'm not going to, this isn't going to be gruesome in the sense of me

explaining everyone's injuries or anything like that. This is a mass shooting that can be very triggering for people. I completely understand if this episode is one, you say, hey, I'll see you on Thursday. Totally. Totally get it.

But again, I'm not going to get crazy with my descriptions, but this is rough.

So I just need you to know that right out the bat, right out the gate, but this is rough

and it's a mass shooting.

“So again, if that is something that you are like, this is just not one of the ones”

that I can do. We totally get it. We totally get it. So like, we'll see you Thursday if that's the case. We'll miss you.

We get it. But it is a story that needs to be told because one, these people lost their lives. Yep, these innocent people were just going to McDonald's. Well, and there was just so many warning signs in this case from the time that Jim, who is the, Jim, the mass murder, Jim Huberty, just so many signs from the time that he was

a small child, like, he should have received help. Yeah. I don't know exactly what help or what it would have done, but he needed something. Yeah, and also coincidentally, it's mental health awareness both. So this is kind of a, this kind of fits really perfect in this because there were several

times that people around him said, "Yeah, so crazy."

He like said he was going to kill everybody and he couldn't wait to, you know, shoot things into people's flesh and he's a weird guy and constantly talked about, like, destroying people's bodies. Yeah, I don't know. Sometimes it's okay to reach out and say, "Hey, this person is speaking in a way that makes

me think he might hurt someone." Yeah. Like you can do it anonymously. Exactly. This was in the, you know, this was in the 80s, you know, grown up in the 70s and stuff, things

were a little different for sure, like it was not, people, they were not out here, getting help for, especially men's mental health. No, they grew up like in the Midwest, which obviously is a totally different culture. There were factors here that for sure, we can look back with the hindsight of 20, 26, and say why didn't anybody do anything and things were different, so we do have to use those

lenses to look at it. Yeah. But now in 2026, if someone around you is making these kind of statements or acting these kind of a call someone, you see something, say something, it's like you can, you can do it anonymously, but like just whenever you can try to, because you can avoid catastrophes like this

and also like that person needs help. Yeah. He, this man needed to be, he's like a, he's like a bad person at his core. Well, that's the thing. He's like, he's mentally ill, man, that is core.

He's also racist. Yeah. He's also, he beats his own children. Yeah. He's a doctor.

He beats his wife. Like, he's a, at his core, Jim, but he is an evil piece of shit. Yeah.

“And that's the thing that I think we all need to realize is, you can be too think, two things”

can be true. Absolutely. He can be mentally ill. He's also being a really fucking bad person, not everybody who's mentally ill is a really great person.

They just suffer from this thing. Of course, they're a plenty of people who are really good people who are kind and good people and suffer from mental illness and do things they normally wouldn't have done. Yeah. And don't want to do.

That is 100%. Often the case. Yeah. But there's also cases when somebody is violently mentally ill and should, and does need extensive help, but he's also just a really bad person at their own time.

One would've done something bad, regardless of the mental and this possibly. So Jim, you've ready to me falls into that category. He's just about person. I agree. He's not nice.

He's violent to children. He's violent to women. He's violent to men. He's violent to, he's horrible. And he says horrible things.

He, he's just not. Nobody wanted to be a person. He wanted to be a person. Yeah. And he seemed like he was that way from pretty young.

Yeah. So that is, that is definitely one of those situations here. And again, this is a tough one, but we're going to get into it. All right. So everybody.

Mark your timers. Yeah. Here we are. On the evening of July 15th, 1984, James Heuberty and his wife, Edna, were sitting on the couch watching TV when James, who was better known as Jim, casually mentioned that

he thought he was experiencing symptoms of mental illness. Edna had long suspected that something was going on with Jim. He had violent mood swings, he couldn't regulate his emotions at all. He had a crazy explosive temper. He was very violent.

He was also racist.

And that was the first time she'd ever heard him acknowledge his struggles pretty directly.

I do wonder what all the sudden made him realize that something was off because, like we said in the beginning, it was for so much of his life. It was like that. I'm like, what was just off the rails for his whole life. So I don't know what made him just go.

I think I need help.

“I wonder if he knew, I mean, I think he did.”

At this point, I think he said, I'm going to do something real bad. Yeah. If I, and maybe there was a small part of him that was like, I should probably try to stop myself. And I wonder if he also was looking at this as, okay, if they accept me, because he

to be.

“If they decide not then they are proving everything that I believe about the government,”

about society, about human beings in their spot-off. And then they deserve it. You're spot-off. I think that's exactly what is. And then, fine, certainly.

And this is another, this mental health help back then. Not bad. Pretty bad.

And even now, we always need to get better.

So this is a good little thing about that. So yeah. So Edna became even more hopeful a few days later when she noticed him on the phone with a local mental health center. So she was like, what are you doing?

And he said he had called to make an appointment. And at the time, there was no one available to take his call, which already you're like, "Oh, good." What do you mean? But there was a call during lunch on purpose.

Yeah, exactly. But the receptionist at the center took his information and said someone would get back to him within a few hours. Now when he spoke to the receptionist, he was polite, he was calm, he sounded composed. So there was no reason for them to suspect, this is fact that he was in crisis.

Now we know now that someone in crisis is not always screaming and yelling and crying, they

are not always saying something crazy, quote unquote crazy, that you think is going to like really cause some damage.

“Like, I think now we're a lot more well versed on the idea that somebody in crisis is not”

always the typical crisis that you're thinking in your mind. But according to them, he didn't say anything to indicate that he was, so the call was logged as non-crisis. Non-crisis calls were returned in the order they received, typically within 48 hours. Unfortunately, the receptionist also misheard his name when he gave his last name, and

she wrote it down as "suberty." Now even more unfortunate by the time his message came up in the queue to be returned it was too late. James Huberty had already killed 21 people and was killed by the San Diego police sniper's bullet. So James Huberty's shocking killings, free and violent death, was definitely just the

period on a life filled with a lot of chaos and a lot of things, a lot of like we were saying times when someone should have stepped in warning signs.

He was born October 11th, 1942 in Canton, Ohio, he was the second of two children brought

born to Earl and Eichel, just a few years later, when he was three years old, Jim contracted polio and had to wear leather and metal braces for a long period of time. I mean, thanks to the braces he was able to walk again, but they caused him to have a different walk than he might have had before, and according to one of his primary school teachers, that alone was enough to make him the target for bullies and the other children made

fun of him, and we're just kids suck. Yeah, like get it to get, and teach your kids not to be assholes or really come fun of somebody with polio. Thank God, if I ever found out my kids were making fun of someone for the way they walked, whoop, we'd have a talk.

When Jim was seven years old, his father bought a 155 acre farm in Mont-Eton, Mount Eton. That was about 20 miles away from Canton, and he moved the almost the whole family. All those. Jim's mother was pretty resistant to the idea from the start and just refused to move

with her family, which is wild. Instead, she packed her bags, headed west, and joined a pentacostal missionary group, abandoning her entire family. Yeah, great. So obviously, this was extremely hard on Jim and his sister Ruth, and he would, like, his

father would just find him like crying on, like, at various times, or the property. He had to stall over the property, which is really, like, obviously you can feel about for the kid version of him. Yeah, of course, awful. Yeah.

You had your mom for seven years of your life, and then she's like, she's just a bandage of you, because she's like, I don't feel like moving, oh, cool. Now at school, Jim was taunted and mistreated by, you know, by peers from everything from his appearance, the way he walked, to the fact that his mother abandoned him, like, imagine people making fun of you because you were abandoned as a child.

What about that is funny? I don't know, my brain can't wrap around it, it literally can't. What's the, you know, so just like, what's the joke that that's that, what is the joke? Law your mom left, and it's like, yeah, okay, that's funny to you.

What is the joke?

“Like, I don't understand what the, like, it's so, what's the punch line?”

Yeah, it's so fucked up. So he was unable to make friends a lot at the time. He spent a lot of his time alone, or with the family dog, just developing a really solid and angry temperament. Yeah, I feel like for children to be alone and isolated for too long, being mistreated.

By their peers. At the same time, it's just truly a recipe for disaster, especially when nothing else is being done. And then you have, like, abandonment from a mom and fuck a kid up. Yeah, it's truly, it's truly, it's just lots of, lots of little ordredeity that's

hearing. Now, when he reached junior high, he started to develop a strong interest in guns

collection. No word obsessive. It's like, that doesn't even begin to describe it. He was, yeah, he was a gun. Yeah, he literally was.

Now years later, his former co-workers and Ohio would describe him to a reporter as fanatical. That's not a good way to be.

With one supervisor saying he had a lot of guns, and he always said that he wanted

to kill a lot of people. If somebody is always saying that they want to kill a lot of people, you have a problem. He's like, also, what was your response to that? Okay, Jim, like, also this whole case had me wondering, does any place that he works have an HR department?

“I don't know if HR departments back then, we're just like, chillin'?”

Yeah. I don't know what they were doing, but it's like, if he's at work saying he has a lot of guns and he really wants to kill a lot of people, you have also a lot. Yeah, I call it some of them, but at the time, he was just a lonely, again, this was years later that that was being happening, but we're staying in the past here, because

at the time he was just a lonely boy who had found a way to pass the time, and in a rural place like Mount Eaton guns and shooting, we're not exactly uncommon. It's not like this was a weird no fixation that I'm taking was like a big deal, I mean he lives on a farm. Now throughout his high school years, he kind of kept a low profile, he didn't join any

teams or clubs, he had like a few friendships maybe, he really just spent most of his time at home enthusiastically pursuing his hobby of guns, by the time he was in his late teens, he had become something of like an amateur gunsmith really, he learned how to make and load his own ammunition, alter his weapons, making small improvements to things like grip and sights, scary when you know what the M is for sure.

“Now after graduating from high school, he enrolled at Malone College, a small quaker school”

in Kinn, and he studied sociology there before dropping out two years later and moving to Pennsylvania, where he went to the Pittsburgh Institute of Mortuary Science. After graduating in 1963, he found work as a morticians at Prentice at a local funeral home, and during that time he became a licensed embommer in mortician. His former employer, Don William, said, "I told him he was in the wrong business, he was

a good embommer, but he just didn't relate to people." "Yeah, you don't say." It turned out that at least on some level, Jim agreed, because within a year of being licensed in Ohio, he'd quit the mortuary business altogether and taken a job as an assembly line, worker at a local factory.

Changing careers wasn't the only big change in his life at the time, though. He'd also started dating at Numerke Marquind, and in 1965, they got married at Trinity Gospel Temple in Kinn, Ohio. I just wonder what their meat cute was. I wonder what she saw in him because no one liked him.

Nobody liked him. He was very miserable all the time.

And I also just wonder, did they get through their first date without him mentioning

that he wanted to kill a lot of people? That's a thing. He seems like he is just, you see, any other people talking about him and everyone's like, he was just a miserable person to be around, not because he was sad all the time. He was mean and suddenly horrible, terrible shit, and would talk about killing people.

He liked to talk about the different bullets and the damage they inflicted on human flesh, like nobody wants to talk about them. What is it about him? I figured this is the kind of guy that would stay alone forever. I know.

But no. From the moment he first met Jim, the pastor who married the couple, David Lombardy, actually had reservations about the relationship in the marriage completely. He said he had real interconflicts, but the time he was dating atna, he was atheistic and blamed God for taking his mother away from him.

I'd like to point out that him being like leaning towards being atheist has literally nothing to do with like interconflicts of this magnitude.

“Yeah, I think that's what we're meant to point out.”

Like you know what I mean, I think he has a lot of interconflicts, but I don't think him being an atheist is one of them. I think that's, I'm like, okay, that's just the thing. Yeah.

He also said that Jim was half way intelligent, but when you dealt with him, you always felt

a little uneasy about the way he harbored something inside. He was pent up. He was a loner and he had kind of an explosive personality. Those are definitely his inner conflict. And that's what everyone said specifically on explosives.

Even after marriage and buying a house, his interpersonal skills never got much better than when he was a kid and he was still struggling to control his explosive anger. Small conflicts at work usually escalated really quickly with Jim taking out way more offense at some, you know, light things like teasing or perceived slights, like I don't like teasing either.

You know, sometimes people are just trying to like have a good time.

You don't think they were necessarily like bullying him, you know, and the best thing to do in those situations is to tell someone, like, hey, I don't really love, yeah. I don't really love being teased. Like that. It kind of like sets something off and they'll be like, oh, shit, all right.

That's it. That's how you get to know people. And also, that's how you teach people how to treat you.

“Yeah, because that's what you have to do.”

Exploding an anger at someone, because they do something like that, won't get you anywhere. They're not going to learn anything except, wow, you're an asshole. Yeah, I don't want to try. And it's like, if you just, I hate teasing. So there's been times where I've had to say to people, hey, like, I actually don't love them.

Like, don't poke me. And they're like, oh, shit. Sorry. Yeah. And then they know how to treat you.

Yeah. Teach him. Teach him every country. But even people who attempted friendly conversation or like small talk, found him to be very unpleasant, and all described him as hostile.

His gun obsession got way worse as well. He covered his entire home and guns. His coworker, Jim, as lanes were called, no matter where he was sitting or standing in the house. He could reach over and get a gun.

To me, that's too much. That's scary to me. First, no opinion. I think that's too much. My personal thing is, like, I don't have anything against guns.

No, like, if you are to somebody who responsibly uses a gun. Oh, awesome. Oh, go for two. Like, good for you, man. Like, I really don't have a problem with it.

If you are a sponsor with it, I fully support it, having, I don't understand having that many. Yeah. But that's just something I don't understand. I'm not saying you're a bad person for it.

I just mean I don't get it. Well, they also think, especially in this case, because later on, he does go on to have two children, gun should not just be accessible in the home. Yeah.

“Why should not be able to reach anywhere and get a gun if you have to, like, kids in”

the house. It's just not so dangerous. It's just not safe. You've seen it. And again, Jim could also, usually, be found sitting by the front door of his

house, door open with a shotgun across his lap. Like, he was a red winged in. Yeah. And that's not responsible. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Or responsible gun owner. It was precisely that type of bizarre threatening behavior that he was constantly exhibiting that convinced his coworker Jim is lanes that he did not want to get to know him outside of work.

He said, it was little things like that. Just showed me there was something wrong with him, which is very astute.

In 1972, at NaGave births of the couple's first child, a daughter who was followed by a second

daughter two years later. If anyone expected, fatherhood to change or softened Jim Heuberty, they were going to be sorely disappointed. And not only was he unwilling to change, was increasingly confrontational and reckless behavior, because he saw no need to set the safety on any of his guns, even with toddlers

in the house. That's the kind of thing I'm saying is it's like he was a very responsible gun owner. I just didn't ask all. Yeah. Like, he literally didn't care about his kids, not so.

But he also seemed mostly uninterested in parenting altogether, which like, why did you have kids? Exactly. Years later, after the couple moved to San Diego, many of the neighbors would recall that, while Jim seemed to have a general dislike for most people, he seemed to lose children,

which is like, what's wrong? How do you not like kids? Just don't have to be around them, if you don't want to. Like, I get it. Some kids are annoying for sure.

Like, I usually don't like the ones related to me. Yeah. Like, kids are adorable. Come on. I, here's the thing.

If people make a choice not to have kids more power to you. Yeah. Fully like hell. Yeah. Well, if you're making that choice, clearly, that's the right choice for you.

Because that's the choice. You're being irresponsible. You're responsible human being. Right. Saying, you know what?

I don't want that. Right. You don't need to have that or want that. Good for you, in fact. I want you.

But when people make it their entire personality that they hate children, that's weird. That's weird. Exactly. Because it's like, you don't need to have them. Yes.

So it's not a requirement. So just don't. Do you think it's okay?

“I will say, I think back then, it did feel like more of like a requirement.”

Like, I'm sure. You got married, and then you had to have kids. Yeah. And I think a lot of people feel like weird societal pressure. Yeah.

Like, I'm sure @Nedid, you know? Yeah, for sure. So, but still. Well, yeah. Maybe not with Jim, babe.

Maybe not. Like, Jim doesn't seem like he's he's great here. And that. And again, like, him like, like, low thing children. I'm like, get over something's weird.

A former neighbor of his told The New York Times, everybody talks about that here.

He was always yelling at kids.

That would have pissed me off. Woo. Now, when it came to the children in his neighborhood, Jim's frustration and anger was limited to yelling and calling them names. No. Normal adult behavior.

It was just within his limits. With his own children. On the other hand, he was known to have been verbally emotionally and physically violent. On one occasion, just a week or two before the shooting spray.

This is rid of the way. The Heberties neighbor, Wanda, was surprised when Jim's older daughter showed up at her door with wealth all over her face. And when she asked what happened, the girl replied, her daddy had slapped her around. Let's so sad. Fuck.

Jim. Heuberty. And to just, like, say that, so open. Because you really, like, that's clearly what he did. He didn't give a shit because he's willing to send his daughter.

Yeah. He doesn't care. And he knows she's going to say what happened.

“And she's saying it like, isn't this just something that happened?”

Yeah. That's what dads do, right? Yeah. That's horrific. So sad.

In the winter of 1971, their house caught fire while they were all out of the house. At that time, Jim was storing large containers of gunpowder in the basement. And when the fire reached that area, the house, it just went up in a huge giant fireball. Like a legit explosion. Yeah.

Like down to the foundation. But they actually bounced back pretty quick. And they bought a three, like a big three-story home on the lot next to where their old house was. And then on the now vacant lot, they built a six unit apartment building.

That would eventually provide them extra income. Imagine Jim, you were already being your landlord. No, thank you. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure he didn't really handle anything.

Probably not. According to one offer, any success that they experienced during this time was probably certainly atna's hard work. For most, if not all of their marriage, she did literally everything.

“She managed the household, the children.”

And she dealt with the world outside of the home because he couldn't. Mm-hmm. In the morning, he would, she would get her husband and children out of bed. Lay out their clothes, pack their lunches and get them to their various locations. She had three children.

Yeah.

And she was always going out of her way to limit Jim's interactions with the people around them.

Terrified that any conversation or miscommunication would escalate until like physical violence or him exploding, which gives, in this sense, I feel so horrible because atna obviously felt terrified. Like this was her lot. One of the other things is just trying to limit his exposure to other people.

Exactly. And I'm sure a part of her was probably terrified to leave him. Oh, she was probably horrified. I'm not condoning the fact that she didn't because obviously he's beating her and their children. Yeah.

But she's probably so scared. He has a zillion guns. That's the thing. And he's going to see that as like another slight. He's not going to go after you and your baby.

And again, it's easy for us to sit here from a place where we have like loving, safe partners. Yeah.

“And say, you know, like, I wouldn't get out of that house.”

I don't know what that feels like. No. And I can't sit here and claim that I do or feel like I would be the superwoman that knew what to do when our entire house is covered in insane amounts of guns. To the point where we'll explode if there's a fire.

It's explosive and hurting all of us and threatening all of that. Like, I don't. And that's living hell. And not only that. It was an easy for a woman in the 70s to break out on her own with two children.

No. You couldn't even get a fucking credit card. Exactly. So it's like, that's horrific. It really is.

Like, it's horrific. Oh, I hate it. It's so sad.

But yeah, she was always just trying to keep him from getting in trouble, essentially.

And behind closed doors, though, he had no trouble taking out his anger on the entire family. She said, and this is so sad. And it is. She said, quote, generally it was just one hit.

But there were other times that he would beat them all relentlessly. He even threatened one of his daughters with a butcher knife. Literally. And their kids. Like young kids.

I mean, I don't even care if your daughter's 35 years old. They threatened her with a butcher knife. What the fuck is wrong with you? There's. He's a horrific monster.

It really is. For just about anyone who knew or even those who had just met him. Jim, he read his rage and extremely unpleasant demeanor. We're definitely the primary problems. But just beneath that, we're other more subtle signs of emotional distress that generally

went overlooked. Because again, that's the same thing we're saying. He's just a bad person. He's just a nasty, mean, violent bad person who is severely mentally unwanted. Right.

On top of all that. And it's like, he's probably one of the scariest types of people you can imagine. Oh, yeah. This isn't a kind-hearted person who has a mental health crisis. This is a bad monster who is currently suffering really severely with mental health

problems. It's like, that is the worst combination I can think of. Absolutely. Truly. Which makes me feel for his children and his wife even more because living with that is unthinkable.

Because you just never know what you're going to get.

And you just know it's all bad. It's got to be dark. It's a hell. Like there's no way of getting beneath this mental health crisis because underneath is a bad person. So there's no light at the end of the tunnel with him.

It's just really sad. But as early as the mid-1970s, Edna started encouraging her husband to seek mental health, like help, which like Kudos seems to choose the only person that did this.

And in one instance, Jim told her, "God and Jesus Christ were consulting him about the government and president Carter." Which shows you right there. He's mentally unwell.

“In another instance, Jim told the co-worker, he'd, and this is really sad.”

He'd killed one of his dogs for speaking to him. And he went on to explain that the dog hadn't spoken him verbally, but had communicated through his eyes in a way that Jim understood and didn't appreciate. I can't imagine my co-worker looking at me and telling me about that. That's chill you to your blind scary.

Now, to Jim, everybody was always out to get him in one way or another.

And in time, he became consumed by his desire to get back at anyone who slated him. If he received bad customer service somewhere, he would make harassing phone calls or pick at the business. If a neighbor did something he didn't like, he would set up an elaborate scheme that took weeks of planning to get revenge on them. And while he knew he couldn't take out his anger on the neighborhood children physically, only because he would get in trouble.

That didn't stop him from enrolling his daughters in karate classes, not for their own betterment. No. But so that he could direct them to assault the other children that lived around them. Which, like, if you take karate, you know, is the exact opposite of what they're teaching them. They do an entire oath in the beginning.

That says that they will not use it for that. Right.

“So you're like, and you're directing your children to be your little agents of chaos.”

To go beat children. You don't beat children because you don't like them.

Like, that's beyond them.

And then you're making your children pariahs. Yeah. You're continuing this awful toxic cycle. Things in his life took a serious downturn in 1982 when after 13 years of employment, he was laid off from his job at the factory. Just about everyone who knew him has acknowledged that this is where his life started really spiraling out of control.

And he had done nothing to manage the stress. I mean, yeah, this is for sure where he spiraled. He was already. Nothing good was coming out of this guy. Well, that was not, he was not killing it.

No. Now, rapidly running out of money and sensing her husband was on the verge of a breakdown. Atna put the couple's property on the market and gently approached Jim about what to do. Jim was too consumed with paranoia to be much of a help. And instead, he spent most of his time focused on his belief that the factory closing was just evidence of a larger conspiracy to ruin him.

And he was determined to get even with everyone, telling one former coworker he was going to kill himself and quote, "Take everyone with him." Guys, you got to call someone. Yeah. Like, he is literally spelling it out for people around him. What is everyone doing?

That's the thing. Yeah. As it's like, he is like, you just, he is spelling it out. Yeah. He's yelling it there to everyone.

Those paranoid delusions got even worse when a deal for both properties fell through and Jim and Atna ended up selling their properties at a loss. To Jim, this was just further evidence of the conspiracy, so he sued his realtor. Now, when everything fell apart for them in Ohio, Jim decided it was evidence of his longstanding belief that the entire country was in fact on the verge of collapse. Rather than relocate to any other city or state, he picked up his entire family in the spring of 1983 and moved them to Tijuana.

But they left Ohio. He didn't bother to bring much of their furniture or personal belongings or instead. He just filled the car with his massive gun collection and a stock of ammunition. Those poor children. Just poor children.

To be uprooted from your already insanely dark and chaotic life and then packed up in a car with a bunch of guns. Move to Mexico. Yeah. We're like, you don't know anybody. They don't speak the language.

They don't speak the language. They don't speak the language. And then your father's this terrifying man who like nobody wants to be around. So you're even more isolated. Yeah.

And it's getting worse and worse as delusions as paranoia. So there's no shortage of, you know, irrational motives for moving the entire family to Mexico in his mind. Of course. Ultimately, though, they only lasted three months before moving back to the US.

“Because remember, he's also violently racist.”

Yeah, so, um, and they settled in the Santa seed row neighborhood of San San Diego. Once they settled into their two bedroom apartment, it didn't take long for the old problems and bad habits just crop right back up. Several neighbors were called hearing Jim yelling at atna the girls on multiple occasions. So sad.

The one neighbor who lived next door told her a reporter he'd never heard the couple so much as argue.

I think he just didn't want to get it. I was like to less. While their new neighbors initially tried to be friendly and welcoming, they became decidedly less friendly when Jim made his dislike of minorities known to everyone with a near shot. A reporter Carlos Amesca said he was very anti-immigrant.

He hated immigrants, especially Mexican immigrants. So that's where we're sitting. You're a terrible person. Yeah. And also, why move into immigrant communities if you hate immigrants.

Yeah, you're infiltrating their place.

“Like, you can go, I mean, you up and move your family to Tijuana for a long time.”

I agree, a racist piece of shit. So like make that make sense. Yeah. And then you move to Sanacidro. Yeah, Sanacidro. That's a very well known Mexican community.

Like Mexican community. Yeah. What are you doing? So go move somewhere where you can spout your nastyness to other angry white people. Yeah.

Or really funny. Or go back to yourself. Yeah. Or go fuck yourself. You choose.

But like why you infiltrating their community and knowing shit about them. Right. Like what the fuck?

Jim never felt settled in California.

“If he never felt settled as entire life.”

Edna said in his mind everything in Ohio is done right. And he could not adjust to the way things were done in California. So he was unemployed surrounded by people he disliked because of his extreme racism. And the entire landscape was foreign to him. And in the past, he probably wouldn't have had any trouble finding a job as a welder.

But a recent car accident had left him shaky. And that ruled out any work like that. And I'm sure a lot to even greater conspiracy. Exactly. One day he saw newspaper ad for a federally funded job training program.

It offered grants to low income individuals interested in training to be a security guard. So the course was several weeks long and Jim excelled at every aspect, especially the target shooting. He did. He was placed in the expert category. Once he'd finished the training he was granted a two year registration as a trained security guard in the state of California.

And he said about looking for work. In comparison to the training as a security guard. Finding actual work was exponentially harder for him. On paper, he was an ideal candidate. But as soon as he sat down in front of potential employers, things would change quickly.

As he can't speak to people. Just a few days after completing the training course he got an interview with Bernstein security services. Owner Rudy Bernstein recalled. He told me how well he handled himself and how he would only work for top security firms. But he was put off by his arrogance, bad attitude and obvious lies.

After he left the interview, Bernstein took measures to ensure that the candidate was not going to get the job. He wrote no in bold foreign letters on Jim's application. And then traced over and again with a darker marker to make it clear. It's really making sure that took me out when I heard that. Jim did manage to find work with another security firm nearby in Chula Vista.

Working the undesirable 8pm to 2am shift. That's pretty brutal. This guy with lack of sleep is probably not a great mix either. Well, just buy himself at a post. And when he wasn't working, sleeping or renting, he was shopping, buying new guns, gun parts, military uniforms.

You know, so scary. Despite their very limited income, Jim spent money freely.

“But whenever Etna needed to spend money on essential items or something for their children, Jim would explode in anger.”

On one occasion, when Etna told her husband one of the girls needed braces, he burst into the girl's bedroom waving around an oozy. Oh, my God. And shouted, "Why spend money on the girl's teeth?" She'll be dead anyway. Like, what the fuck? That's also just plainly telling your wife that you're going to kill all of you.

That's so fucking scary. And this poor fucking kid's.

You think of, like, how old you are when you got your first braces lately? You're a young teenager.

Like, your dad is literally bursting into your room with an oozy, shouting about how you're going to be dead anyways. So why do you need braces? I so hope that these girls are doing okay now. And like, we're saved the whole family.

They need because they... They're childhood with some of the worst I can imagine. I can't even. Well, things at home were deteriorating fast. Things at work weren't going very well for Jim either.

His credentials and training made him a good candidate for the job. But his bosses at the security company were like, "Yeah, I don't know if this guy can actually do the job because he's wild." He also, like, might just shoot somebody because he wants to. He was edgy.

He constantly seemed paranoid. It jumped me. His attitude was terrible. He was exploding up. He was just being Jim Huberty.

You know, not somebody that you want on your property with a gun. No. On July 10, 1984, he was fired from the security job after his boss determined he was, quote, "too nervous for the work." Although he reacted to his firing about as well as anyone would expect,

losing his job also seemed to be like a little bit of a wake-up call for Jim. After his job loss, he started speaking a little more openly about his mental health and wondering out loud whether he should seek help from a professional, which is what led him to play so called to the mental health center on July 17. But when Jim didn't get the call back in a few hours, he became rationally angry

and stormed out of the apartment. By that time, Edna had become frightened for Jim's safety and the safety of others. And she started frantically calling mental health centers in the area, trying to locate the one Jim had called that day.

in fact, seriously suicidal or dangerous.

“And hoping that would be enough to get him at appointment immediately.”

Unfortunately, because the receptionist wrote his name down wrong, when Edna did eventually land on the right mental health center, the person on the other and looked over the call log and told her, they hadn't had any calls from someone named Huberti. Which, almost like, "Shubretty."

You didn't see Huberti and say, "Maybe they wrote it down wrong." Like, "Come on, guys." Now the next morning, July 18th, Jim and Edna were doing traffic court, related to just like a minor infraction. According to the clerk on duty that day,

Huberti was pleasant and waited patiently until his name was called.

Never becoming agitated or angry, interesting.

In fact, Jim even successfully managed to win the sympathy of the clerk, who, feeling sorry that the Huberti's had to wait so long, cancelled the fine altogether. Wow. After leaving the Horthouse, Jim and Edna took the kids to the zoo,

where they spent a few hours walking the paths, looking at the animals. To Edna, Jim seemed uncharacteristically calm. That's so scary. Yeah. But every now and then, he would make a comment that she said,

she found a stirping. At one point, they stopped to watch the animals, an appropos of nothing. Jim just said, "Well, society had its chance, and then walked away."

Oh, my God. That would horrify me. Honestly, I don't even know what they would be able to do,

“but you have to call the police if your husband never fucking says that to you.”

Like, that's, I suppose, society had its chance.

Like, I don't even know that's so scary. And the fact that he was weirdly calm, that must have been really scary. For his family. For his family.

Yeah. That they couldn't even actually enjoy. The fact that he was calm, and they, because they were probably not what does this mean. Yeah.

The family arrived home in the early afternoon and at that made lunch for the girls. And when she finished cleaning up the kitchen, she went into the bedroom to lay down for a little while. A few minutes later, Jim entered the bedroom,

wearing a full clam of flowers outfit, and carrying a large bundle, wrapped in a black and white checkered outfit. And he said, "I want to kiss you goodbye." Oh, go ahead.

When he stood up to leave the room, and asked where he was going, and he replied, "I'm going hunting. I'm going hunting people." Did she call someone?

We can move forward. Okay. From the balcony of the apartment, one of her daughters watched,

“as her father loaded this bundle into the car,”

then pulled out the parking lot, drove the 200 or so yards down the street, where he pulled into the parking lot of the post office, just across from the McDonald's. This was only 200 yards away from his house.

I could see it, probably. The restaurant was a very popular in the neighborhood and was a place parents frequently bought their children to play. So that afternoon, there were about 50 people inside. It was about 4pm when John Arnold clocked in for a shift at McDonald's.

He was standing at the register, but he didn't see Jim, he already come through the door. All he remembers was hearing his coworker Guillermo Flores. He all hey, John, that guy's going to shoot you. Oh my God.

Arnold turned around and saw he really pointing a shotgun in his direction. He said, "He was pointing that gun right at me. He pulled the trigger, but nothing happened." Then he brought it down and started messing with it.

When Jim lowered the gun, John relaxed a little, thinking, like, was this just a prank? What is this? But it wasn't the gun had just jammed. He already fiddled with the shotgun briefly

before finally clearing the jam and firing it into the ceiling.

The noise got everyone's attention, which is when Jim pulled out his 9mm semi automatic oozy from the bundle he was carrying and fired at 22 year old manager. Niva came, hitting her several times before she dropped to the ground. Oh my God.

Employee Albert Leo said, "I saw him come in and tell everyone to get to the floor." Then he just started shooting at everyone. The people who tried to get out to run out of the McDonald's he started shooting at them.

Oh, waving his gun around furiously. He shouted, "I'm going to kill you all." He then referred to everyone in the restaurant as dirty swine, telling them he'd killed many in Vietnam, and he was going to kill 1,000 more.

He had not served in Vietnam. He tried to enlist, both did deemed unfit for service. I wonder why. But in that moment, none of that matters. After killing Niva came he really turned

and began firing through the windows at the people across the street at the donut shop. 12-year-old Joshua Coleman and his friends David Flores and Omar Hernandez had gone to the shop to get ice cream that afternoon.

And we're walking out just as he started shooting in their direction. Flores was killed immediately. Walking out with his ice cream. 12-year-old with his friends. Omar Hernandez was shot multiple times

and ended up dying on the ground. Joshua Coleman was hit in the chest, knocking him to the ground.

the shooter would realize he was still alive and fire at him again.

“So he stayed completely still struggling to breathe.”

He was shot in the chest. He later said, "I needed air and I couldn't get enough. I had to take short quick breaths." Oh God. Inside the McDonald's, Jim turned his gun

on the families in the play area. Firing indiscriminately into the crowd as parents just grabbed their children and huddled onto the stone tables. This is.

Nightmares don't even get correct word. Keith Thomas later recalled "We got under the table and I got shot in both arms." He was a kid. Oh my God.

That afternoon Keith had gone out to a late lunch with his best friend Mateo Herrera and Mateo's father Ronald. With the two boys squeezed beneath the table, Ronald, the father, shielded them both

as his own body. But in the end, it wasn't enough. Mateo was shot and killed. And Keith was shot seven times. Oh my God.

But Keith credits Ronald with savings as life that day. Seven times. And that's like his best friend's father saved him with his own thought.

That thing, the heroes that come out of these stories. Oh, like, like, out of your heart. People that literally shield others with their own body. I don't know what it is to do this.

No, it's, there should not be as such things as a human being. No.

The first call came into San Diego,

9-1-1, a few minutes after the shooting started. When someone dragged one of the victims, a young girl off the sidewalk and into the post office across the street. Officer Miguel Rosario said,

“"The call came in if I can remember as some type of disturbance”

where a little girl had been shot. I have no clue what I was about to enter into." Good communication. Here is awful. From start to finish story.

Yeah. At that time, there were two McDonald's restaurants in Santa Cedar, one on the west side and one on the east side. Because there was some confusion around where the incident was taking place. Rosario was dispatched to the wrong location.

And didn't receive the correction until he was about a block away from the east side McDonald's. As a result, emergency services were delayed by anywhere between three and five minutes as the officer had to backtrack

and make his way to the right location. Three and five minutes is eternity. A huge, huge, oh my god. Inside the restaurant, everything was chaos. The alarms.

This is, for some reason, this detail sent me. The alarms on the friars and other heating elements were all going off because the food was getting burned. It's just madness. So now people are crying, screaming, and moaning, and pain.

And there's friar alarms going off and other heating element things just being like rain, rain, rain. Like just crazy. And then on top of that, whatever wasn't being drowned out by the alarms was covered up over, are you ready?

The pop music, blurring out of the portable stereo that he already had brought with him. No. Every now and then he would fiddle with the radio changing the station to find a song he liked.

And then he would start firing wildly across the restaurant again. Oh my god.

I never got to that detail.

No. I thought you were going to say the pop music. Oh my god. No, he brought his own. And would change it to a song.

He didn't like a song. That just made me like physically ill. Like that is beyond evil. And outside, local reporter Carlos Amazica happened to be coming out of a post office

shooting started, making him the first reporter on the scene. Oh my god. He said later. Before I could even realize it, I heard the whistles of shots going by my head.

I hit the ground so hard that I thought I'd been shot because I'd blood on my face and hands. I'd actually hit my nose on the pavement. Oh my gosh. As Carlos scrambled for cover behind the cars,

Miguel Rosario's finally arrived, pulling his patrol car into the parking lot of the post office. And remember, he was the one that was sent to the wrong location. Is it just him? At that point, Rosario still hadn't been informed of exactly what was going on.

So he thought it might have been a robbery or other public disturbance.

He later said walking to the post office is when I first realized

something was very wrong. People were hiding behind cars. They were looking towards the McDonald's. So he looked in the direction of the restaurant just in time to see Jim Huberty raised the ooze in his direction and fire.

Oh my god. He was able to dive behind a truck to avoid being hit. The cover gave him just enough time to radio for backup and tell them, hey, get here now. Get the fuck over here.

To the correct McDonald's. His call went out at 4 10 p.m. 10 minutes into the assault.

“And you have to think about 10 literally.”

Honestly, set of fucking timer for 10 minutes, right now. That is such a long time. This kind of situation. Because you hear 10 minutes and you go 10 minutes. Oh, I'll be there in 10 minutes and no big deal.

Like that sounds like whatever. Sit for 10 minutes. 10 minutes. I said a timer at night for my mouth. Wash for one minute and it's like an apartment is so long.

Like it's crazy.

Every time the girls brush their teeth.

And even I'm like, oh my god. Two minutes to where you supposed to be brushing this long. That's a long time. So 10 minutes in this. Ten minutes sitting there is a long time.

Ten minutes in this kind of absolute nightmare scenario. And this man has got, I don't even know how many guns you said. Yeah. And how much ammunition. It's like he knows how to make his own him.

Yeah. So it probably is. Oh, he had hundreds. He was able to get off hundreds of rounds. Hundreds of rounds and McDonald's were families went to play with their kids.

And he knew that. I so wish that. In a strange way. Because we already know. I wish that he hadn't been killed.

And I wish that he was sitting in prison to this day too. Just raw to tortured. Yeah. [music]

Now later, after everyone had learned the full details of the massacre, several people did question

why no one inside the restaurant, which I'm like, guys. Like, this makes me crazy. People were questioning why no one in the restaurant had done anything to try to stop him. What are you going to do? He has a million guns.

And that's the thing. Because they're all like, well, any attempt would have been better than nothing. You're going to get killed. Exactly. And Albert Leo's, somebody who was there, which it's like, how will we listen to the people

that we're experiencing? Right. Because we can all sit here on our ass and our comfy safe home.

“And you're like, why didn't you try to buy a brush and why didn't you try to do that?”

You don't know what the fuck you would do. What if your flight or flight is going to do in that moment? No. You weren't in there watching kids get shot and parents trying to save their kids and like, so many people don't realize that a lot of people's fight or flight response is free.

Exactly. And it's not anyone's fault. No.

It's just what your fault is.

It's just the way it is. But Albert Leo said there was just no way. When you have someone who's armed the way he was, it's not like in the movies where someone can jump on him. There's just no way.

No. It's like semi-automatic and automatic rifles. When Jim Huberty had come prepared that afternoon. He carried an oozy semi-automatic, which also an automatic or a semi-automatic. You're not getting a moment between these shots.

No. Like he's able to just mode. It's like Call of Duty. Exactly. To do like something out of a horrible, horrible action flick.

And it's like, is it what they use that in force? Those in force? I have no idea. Actually don't know. But they use that for mass carnage.

Any kind of like automatic weapon is horrifying. Like it just is for like, you know. But so he was carrying an oozy semi-automatic, a nine millimeter hand gun, and a remington pump action shotgun. Whenever one gun ran out of bullets,

he would simply pull another out and start firing again. And you also have to think he's an expert. Like he's a gun egg. He can reload quick. He can fix jams.

Because I'm sure so many people like would take this moment to say, or back then, like, oh, he took a minute to reload. Yeah. He probably, he's put seconds. Yeah.

He's done this his whole life.

“It's the only thing he's been obsessed with.”

And no, again, no one knew how long they might have between breaks. Where he would stop to reload. So no one wanted to take the chance to go rush it him and start another shooting spree. You could get yourself killed.

Because I'll see. Because I'll see. Because I'll see. So I'm thinking this, he's not shooting one shot at a time. It's not just going to be you going down.

You standing up and rushing out him could take out everyone around you. Right. And so they're probably thinking in that scenario. And there's a worse me getting up and having him bow down a whole group of kids behind. That's the thing.

There's kids everywhere. Yeah. This is awful. It's an awful situation. I can't imagine being in it.

Now, once crime scene technicians had processed the scene later, they determined that humanity had managed to fire. They said hundreds of rounds in all directions. And when he wasn't blindly firing, ranting or listening to music,

he would walk through the restaurant shooting people. Several of whom were already dead. Just shooting them more. And when the noise became too much, he would shout at everyone demanding that parents keep their children quiet

because they were making him anxious. What?

“Like, how do you expect anybody to calm their child in this situation?”

What the fuck dude? Maria Rivera was one of those parents hiding under the tables trying to keep her children quiet. She told them the bullets were just little pieces of ice flying out of the broken ice machine. But she didn't think that they believed her. No.

She later said he came to our table and kicked me. And I had to pretend I was dead. Oh, my God. He thought we were dead because there was a lot of blood around us. In the end, Maria's arm was grazed by a bullet.

And one of her daughters was shot in the leg. But all three did survive. And it's also in that kit like that.

In that situation to come up with something even remotely conferencing.

“Instead of my movement is killing everybody around us.”

It's the ice machine. Like, yeah, props to that mom. That's being a mom. That's next level. Now after about, are you ready?

40 minutes of tear. Truly is shocking. Almost an hour. It's shocking that anybody made it out of this alive. Yeah.

Some people decided to try to make a run for the emergency exit. Hoping that they could reach the door before he spotted them. Cashier Wendy Flanagan recalled. The girl that was at the cash register with me, Maggie.

She saw that I was not running and she went behind me.

And she was pushing me the whole way as I ran. I imagined I was running through rain. She said, I felt like I was running through rain.

“And I heard Bing Bing Bing because I believe now he was shooting with the machine gun.”

And she was shooting at us and the bullets were ricocheting all over. And when Maggie and then Maggie got really heavy. And she was keeping me from running. So she slipped from my arm. And I ran down the stairs and do a closet.

And she never came. Like, when does it think these are like young girls working these registers? Wendy managed to reach the emergency exit on her own. But when she hit the door, she discovered it had been locked by the management. Who feared the employees might steal food if they had an unmonitored exit.

You had to be fucking. I hope so. She came out of this.

You got to be fucking carrying me.

So thinking fast, Wendy turned and ran through the door that led to a small supply room at the bottom of short flight of stairs. We're several others. We're also hiding. Okay.

Outside the supply room, they could hear their co-worker Albert Leo. Get shot five or six times, including two serious wounds in his arm and leg. He really only stopped shooting Leo's when he ran out of ammunition and had to return to the counter where he'd left his supply. In that moment, Leo's used the opportunity to drag himself to the supply room door.

And then he dragged himself down the flight of stairs where the other people were hiding. Despite how seriously he was injured, he knew if he made any noise he was going to give away their position. So he bit down on a rolled up rag and used shoelaces as turniquets on his arms and legs. Wow. Now, having spent nearly a hour trapped in the restaurant with this absolute maniac.

The remaining survivors couldn't understand why after having shot through the windows and killing people outside on the street, the police hadn't shown up to stop him. Like, where are they? This must have been like, because sitting there and having this happened for so long. You're like, where are they?

Yeah.

“Like, where are the people that are supposed to save us?”

Like, I don't understand this. Throughout the late 1970s and early 80s, Americans had watched their local police departments become much more militarized as well and heavily armed with military-grade weapons. Supposedly to prevent or stop incidents like this. And yet there they were trapped inside with humanity and there was no sign of law enforcement to be seen.

At least as far as they knew. Right. In reality, though, which this is the reality, there was a heavy presence outside police presence. But there are attempts to intervene kept getting hindered by several factors. For one thing, the windows were covered with a tinted film, making it difficult for anyone outside to see in.

Oh, man. That visibility was further hampered by the fact that after humanity fired through the windows, the double-pained glass didn't shatter. It just cracked into like a spider web pattern, making it almost impossible to see inside. Also challenging was their physical location.

Although it surely wasn't planned that way, the McDonald's was all glass on three sides. And he really could see through all of them. Right. So anytime one of the officers tried to get close to the building, he would see them and unleash a torrent of semi-automatic gunfire at them.

This not only put the responding officers at risk, but everyone else who was still pinned down outside the restaurant when the shooting started. Eventually, the SDPD called in fire trucks to position around the perimeter to block the pedestrians. This allowed them to remove the wounded from the scene. But the trucks, like outside the scene, but trucks took heavy damage because he was just firing into them.

Yeah. And at least one fireman was shot in the process. Now after an hour, the San Diego police swat team had arrived at the scene. And I was like an hour and an hour. You brought the swat team in and after an hour.

The swat team should have been called the should have been called immediately. They took up their positions with sniper Chuck Foster, a top the room of the post office across the restaurant. The roof, excuse me, of the post office. He later said, "I got up on top of the room along with my spotter. Barry Bennett at about 5.02pm."

I was like, "Um." What? Because it's all started around 4pm. He said, "Once I got up onto the post office roof, I could look down upon the McDonald's. I could see a few bodies lying inside the restaurant.

The shooter within the McDonald's had a lot of advantages where he was at.

“As soon as he was in position on the roof, Foster had the same problems that the officer on the ground had.”

The windows were both tinted, heavily cracked. He just couldn't see anything. Under those conditions, there was a high likelihood that if he took a shot, Foster could have missed or hit one of the people inside. Also, the officers outside the restaurant knew very little about what was actually happening inside the restaurant. And they thought that if there was more than one shooter, which they thought there was, considering how many shots were being fired,

they said taking one out might prompt the other one to kill everyone else inside. Because they also didn't know if this was like a hostage situation. And they were like, "If we kill one, that might negate any hope that we haven't getting anyone else out." This isn't impossible situation. It is. Now after about 15 more minutes of holding in position,

Chuck Foster finally saw Huberti walk to the front of the restaurant and hop up on the counter.

From his position, it looked like Jim was reloading his guns. But Foster could only see him from the waist down and didn't have a clear shot. He later said it was impossible to see inside the McDonald's who those windows. I didn't get a chance to see him at all until just before shooting him. Wow.

The only reason I could see inside was because his gunshots shattered a double door of safety glass. Chuck saw Huberti get off the counter and take a few steps towards the front doors, which had been blown out entirely. Worry that he might not get another chance. He drew in a deep breath. And as soon as Jim appeared through the broken glass of the front door, he fired a single shot that ripped right through Huberti's heart killing him instantly.

Wow. At five, seventeen pm after a full seventy seven minutes of carnage and complete terror. The massacre inside the Sanacidromic Donald's had finally come to an end. Seventy seven minutes. Seventy seven minutes.

That has to be one of the longest. I can't imagine this. In that time, Jim Huberti had murdered 21 people, many of them children.

And injured nearly two dozen others.

And those who managed to survive this whole thing. Having escaped with their lives would suffer from profound posttraumatic stress disorder. Absolutely. Definitely decades. I'll take it for the rest of their lives.

Oh, I can't even imagine. It also, there are children suffering. Yeah. Yeah. Who are going to have to grow up with this?

“Like, truly, that's why like, this time of year when I think about like fireworks and that kind of thing.”

And just, yeah. Obviously, like, it's a thing that happens. But I just feel for people who are triggered by that because that has got to send you into such a catastrophic state. That sound.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I can't imagine surviving this. And then hearing fireworks. Especially when, like, I think it's so annoying.

And I don't care how I come up with it. I know exactly what you're going to say, and I feel the same way. Yeah. After the fourth of July, cut the shit. All done.

Cut the shit. Because all the people start doing them on random week nights at like 11 p.m. You're an asshole. You're an asshole. And that's just how I feel.

Like, I literally care. Yeah. Like, I just think you're an asshole. Or do you do that? Like, truly.

And especially when people start it weeks earlier, or they do it for weeks after or the fourth of July. Like, get it together. There's a dead signal today. Yeah.

And you do. I realize the world is not like fully, you know, a safe space for everyone. And can't cater to everyone's, you know, triggers or whatever the hell anybody wants to say. But there are certain things we can do that are just really easy to do. Yeah.

And it's like, do your fireworks on the fourth of July? Come on. And then it's free. You just don't need to do them. Think about this this year.

Think about it this year. Think about this. Yeah. Just think about this and think about somebody who lived through this. And then two weeks after fourth of July, someone decides to out of fucking nowhere in the middle of the night.

Shoot off fireworks a couple of houses down. No, no. And what that would do to someone.

“Because also, you have to think of how many people at this point in life and where we are.”

And where we are, we have to live through this. It's way more people have lived through this. And like, you really do need to take that into consideration. Consideration. Yeah.

Which I feel like a lot. It's worth saying. I feel like a lot of our listeners are just. I know. I'm sure we pissed off a couple people.

I'm sure we got a couple people that are pissed off. It's really worth saying. It's just the way it is. But I think most of our listeners right now. I think you guys listening are the kind of people that are killing it and think of those things.

And also don't do that stuff.

I'm sure, you know, you're always going to get people.

But just if you are one of those people that loves to shoot off fireworks a few weeks after the fourth of July. Just think about this. Yeah. Think. Take a second guess.

Think if you decided to do it anyway. That's that's on you. You're not kind of sucks.

We're like, let's be friends and just, yeah, all agree not to do that. Yeah. Now, once he or she was dead, the survivors came running out of the building and all directions. Not towards police or any other members of one force and just away from the fucking building as fast as they could. It was only after they'd managed to wrangle the survivors and get the wounded to the hospital.

That the STBD finally started to understand the scope of what happened here because remember they still know what the fuck was going on.

Or like, is there still a hostage? Miguel Rosario recalled, nobody knew that this guy was in there by himself and just arbitrarily shooting people.

“Because why would your mind even think that one, especially at this time?”

Exactly. It wasn't for all the side. The restaurant all they knew was that someone was shooting inside. So they naturally thought it was a robbery or a hostage situation. And that was really the most shocking element of the story.

Although they become obviously tragically common now, which is horrific and shame on all of us. Right. In 1984, mass shootings were exceedingly rare. So much so in fact that law enforcement didn't recognize it when it happened in Santa Cedro. Jim Huberty hadn't gone to McDonald's to rob anyone or make some kind of political statement even by taking hostages.

He'd gone there for the sole purpose of killing as many people as humanly possible.

Before being taken out by the police, and he did exactly that.

He sure did. Police officers and crime scene technicians worked through the night to process the scene and identify the bodies. According to the coroner, 13 of the victims died immediately upon being shot. While the rest likely died within a few minutes of being struck down. Because so many of the victims were children and didn't have identification on them.

“Staff members from the coroner's office were forced to use photographs of the victims from the shoulders up,”

to show the mass of people who assembled outside the office looking for their loved ones. By the following day, they'd managed to identify all of the victims. I'm going to read them out. Elsa Herlinda Burboa Fierro was 19. Niva Denise Caine was 22. Michelle Dianne Carren Cross was 18. Maria Elena Comanero Silva was 19.

Gloria Lopez Gonzalez 22. Blay Thragon Herrera 31. Matteo Herrera 11. Pauline Aquino Lopez 21. Margarita Padilla 18.

Claudia Perez 9. 9. 8 of Alaska's Victoria was 69. Jose Ruben Luzano Perez was 19. Carlos Reyes was 8 months.

Oh my god. Jacqueline Wright Reyes was 18. Victor Maximilian Rivera was 25. Our Zelzi Vuelvas Vargas was 31. Hugo Louis Velasque's excuse me was 45.

Lawrence Herman Versluz was 62. David Flores Delgado was 11. Omar Alonzo Hernandez was 11.

“And Miguel Victoria Yowa was 74 years old.”

Such like a vast range of ages there. Like people eight months to 74. Eight months like literally just starting your fucking time on the surf. And like 69 and 74. And you make it that long in your life.

And this motherfucker is the one that ends your life. Yeah. Like that's just so cruel. And to be looking at people crying and begging for their lives. And just indiscriminately shoot them.

Seeing parents trying to shield their crying children. And shoot them anyways. You're shooting baby. You guys. You're shooting 11 out of 10.

Your old, you're shooting parents. Jim, he already had nothing inside of him. He was an empty vessel. Like truly an empty vessel. Like he just ate nothing would have made him stop.

But it really wouldn't. When the news broke, it shocked everyone from one end of the country to the other. Although it was, it has unfortunately been surpassed in number by other since. At the time, the Sanacidra Massacre was the worst mass shooting in American history. Yeah.

And most people found it impossible to understand how such a thing could happen. Which I wish we could say now. That that's the same thing. That happens now that everyone can't imagine this happening. However, those who knew Jim Huberti weren't nearly as surprised.

A former neighbor told a reporter he came across to me as cold. He looked like your average guy except for his facial expressions.

I never saw a smile on him.

Now another person who was an entirely surprised by the shooting was Jim's wife Edna. I wonder if they like heard it from their apart. And that's what I wondered. They had to. Yeah.

But while being very well aware of Jim's long struggle with his poor mental health, his inability to manage his rage and the full extent of his decomposition in the day before the accident. Edna would go on to unsuccessfully sue the McDonald's corporation a few years later.

Alleging that, quote, no, her deceased husband had been consuming copious amounts of McDonald's chicken nuggets in the days weeks and months leading up to the shooting.

To blame this atrocity on chicken nuggets. On overconsumption of chicken nuggets. When you know Diabolical. And especially you know who that man was. You know right well who that man was.

That's in that way copious amounts of chicken nuggets or not. Yeah. That's all we've got to say. We've already given you like how we feel about like Edna not leaving or whatever. Like we've said.

We've sympathized. We've sympathized. And I will continue to sympathize and empathize with her. Not on this. On this.

No. No babe. I'm not empathizing with you. You're not blaming it on chicken nuggets.

“You have to you know have to excuse me on this one.”

I'm not empathizing with the chicken nuggets.

I can't imagine being a surviving victim or the victim of a family member of a victim.

And hearing that this woman blamed it on chicken nuggets. I'm saying the chicken nuggets made him do this now. I have to be fucking kidding me. He said that it contributed to his disorder to mine. It didn't.

He was already there. He had already said a million times to a million different people that he was going to kill a while. He had been that way from childhood. And that is no fault of hers.

But don't blame it on chicken nuggets. Because that really trivializes it. It really doesn't. And it makes it not his fault suddenly. Yep.

And that's wild to do. It absolutely is. No. Most people wondered what had caused him to go on such a shocking rampage. The public was equally frustrated with local law enforcement.

And everyone wanted to know why and how he was able to continue killing people for well over an hour before police intervened. That was a long time. 77 minutes.

“And for them to only get swapped there like an hour late.”

That's that I don't get. I don't know.

I'll never understand that to throw a sniper on a roof an hour later.

No. What are you doing? Like what do you do? You could have been stopped earlier. In truth, it seems there were several important factors that obviously

did definitely hindered them from getting to him sooner. But the initial error and dispatching in the presence of a single officer to a to the heavy tinting on the grass on the glass like to the spidering on the glass like all these things contributed to this allowing being allowed to go on for far too long.

But still the event did go on to influence police procedure with regards to incidents of mass shootings and other acts of terrorism, changing everything from the language used in communication between agencies because no one labeled this a mass shooting against the surveillance tools used and even the scale and scope of weapons

carried by all officers. Now in the wake of the massacre, the community struggled over what to do with the building. I know. Some wanted it torn down completely while others thought it should remain. In the end, the building was demolished and a permanent memorial

was installed in the 1990. I think this was the best thing to do.

“I think that's what I would have preferred too.”

The memorial consists of 21 hexagonal white marble pillars each bearing the name of a victim. In his statement to the press at the unveiling of the memorial, designer Roberto Vallez said, "The 21 hexagons represent each person that died

and they are different heights representing the variety of ages and races that people involved in the massacre. They are bonded together in the hopes that the community and a tragedy like this will stick together like they did." Wow.

That's really beautiful. That gave me chills. Yeah. I think that was the best thing they could have done for that location and what that was.

I mean, what can you do other than that? Yeah. It's a horrific story. It is. But again, I think it's one that needs to be told

one to make sure those people are remembered. Yep. And to really hammer in that mental health care and treatment for mental health is we can't ever get too good with it, man.

And we just need to keep improving. We're nowhere near it. So it's like we need to keep improving. And also people need to say shit. When people are saying stuff,

I know it's hard sometimes. Of course. Because people are like, I don't want to sound like a crazy person calling and say this. I don't want to get.

Some people like ruined. I don't want to do this. Like, yeah. Yeah. They're saying the things that Jim, he really is saying.

Yeah. There's no such thing as overreacting to something. And to understand them. Just anonymously say, hey, I don't know what's going to happen here.

I don't know if he was serious. But he said this really concerning thing. Yeah. You could be saving a lot of people. You absolutely could.

If you ever get a chance to, please do that. Please do, honestly. All right. I am going to find, we need the funnest of that. I'm really looking for a good one.

Wow. This one.

But it's something.

“People once used corn cobs instead of toilet paper.”

Because they were soft, easy to hold.

And there were a lot of them. I love the fact. There were a lot of them. There were a lot of them. There was so much calm.

You could use it to wipe your butt.

It has the juice. I have to go now. That's crazy. I have to go now. That is a pretty fun fact.

I have never heard that in my life.

“I'm not quite sure if I'm better for it.”

I feel like we're all better for it. I think we are. That's a crazy one. I think we are. All right.

Guys. Pete kind to each other. Yeah. Think about fireworks this year. Yeah.

And if somebody says something to you. That is so dark and chilling. That it rocks you to your core. Tell someone.

“That's a great way of explaining something.”

And we hope you keep listening. We hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you get rotted to your core. I don't don't say anything. Yeah.

Bye. [Music] [Music] [Music]