Too Much Blood (PODCAST EXCLUSIVE EPISODE)

Now, at first, when you listen to the story, it's going to sound like a sort of run-of-the-mill

murder case if there is such a thing. But it's not.

“When you get to the end of the episode, we're going to reveal one piece of information that”

you didn't have that not only will inform why anything happened in the story, it'll completely explain that. But more than that, it will totally alter your perspective of what you thought was happening when you first listen to the story. I'm sure a lot of you once you reach the end, make and sit or listen to this story all over

again. But before we get into today's story, if you're a fan of the strange dark and mysterious delivered in story format, then you've come to the right place because that's all we do. So if that's of interest to you, the next time the fall of button is having all their friends over for game night secretly sneak into their house and replace all of their air

fresheners with Fart Spray, okay, let's get into today's story. On the morning of Sunday, July 13th, 2003, 26-year-old Tabitha Bryant walked through the front door of her big White House in Penfield, New York, which was an upper middle-class suburb

“of Rochester, her husband Kevin and their two young sons followed her inside and they were”

all dressed in their Sunday best because they had just come back from church. However, on this morning, Tabitha sort of felt like a fraud because she knew she was not really living a Christian lifestyle. So Tabitha was actually having an affair with a guy named Keith, and her husband Kevin, who was 45 and nearly 20 years her senior, he had recently found out about it and confronted

her about it. Tabitha, during this confrontation, had promised Kevin that she would end the affair, and then she and Kevin had agreed that they really needed to work on their marriage together. But despite sort of coming to a kind of resolution, it was very obvious that Kevin was still very mad at her, and Tabitha had been sleeping on the pillow couch in the den ever

since. Now, Tabitha watched as Kevin, grabbed his briefcase off the kitchen counter, he kissed their two boys goodbye, and then he walked back out to his car.

“Tabitha was used to him disappearing to the office on the weekends.”

Kevin was a lawyer, and he worked basically all the time, and they did depend on his salary

as big salary to pay their mortgage, and also finance their expensive lifestyle with vacations and lots of nights out. Now despite Kevin's salary being so sizable, they had for a while tried to supplement his income by renting out a bedroom in their house to Tabitha's half-brother, Syrall-Wine Brenner, and his girlfriend, Cassidy Green.

However, that arrangement, despite it being profitable for the couple, had ultimately sourd when Syrall, the half-brother, had begun using drugs inside of the house. And so, Syrall and Cassidy had moved out two months earlier, but despite the terms on which they left, the group, you know, Syrall, Cassidy, Tabitha, Kevin, you know, their family, they were main friends, and they would still actually spend time together

on the weekends. It was just they were not able to live together. Now, Tabitha, she did like having that extra money coming in, but the truth was, having

her whole house back to herself was ultimately a good thing, like she felt relieved in some

ways. But also, there was a part of her that sort of missed having, you know, her half-brother and Cassidy around, especially when Kevin was, you know, gone all the time working, like she just felt lonely. And also, on top of just being lonely, I mean, Tabitha often was the one saddled with child

care. You know, they had a toddler and a five-year-old, and, you know, she was just sort of taking care kids all the time, or sort of isolated, it was just exhausting. And now, as she watched Kevin, back his car out of the driveway, she could tell, today was going to be another long, exhausting, lonely day.

That night around 9pm, Tabitha was fast asleep on Kevin's bed, with one of their sons, when she felt somebody shaking her. And when she opened her eyes and looked up, she saw Kevin standing right over her. And he leaned down and he whispered to her that it was very late, and that Tabitha should go to her bed out on the pullout couch.

And then he picked up their sleeping son and carried him off to the boy's bedroom, without waiting for a response from Tabitha. As Tabitha got out of bed, she thought about just staying put, and insisting on sleeping in the master bedroom that night. But, you know, their kids were already asleep, and she also didn't want to risk getting

into a fight with Kevin, especially at this hour and waking everyone up. And so, ultimately, she decided against it and just left the bedroom and headed downstairs to the den. And then when she got there, Tabitha unfolded the pullout couch and laid down, and she tried

And she pulled up the number for Keith, the guy she'd been having in a fair with.

“As she did this, she reminded herself that she had promised to end things with Keith.”

She was also feeling sort of desperate for someone to talk to. And Kevin was clearly very intentionally shutting her out, so, after a moment, Tabitha hit the call button. Later that same night around midnight, 911 operator, Jacqueline Sanabria, had just started her shift at the Monroe County Sheriff's Office when a call came in.

Jacqueline answered it, and immediately this man's voice came over the line, saying his wife had just been shot. So right away, Jacqueline followed protocol, and as calm as she could, she asked the man had he attempted CPR.

And the man, in this eerily calm voice, said, no, he hadn't.

And the reason he gave was there was simply too much blood. At 145 am, on July 14th, 2003, so about two hours after that 911 call.

“Sergeant Paul Sienna of the Monroe County Sheriff's Department pulled up in front of a large”

white house with black shutters and the detached garage. There were a bunch of police cruisers and forensics fans that were already on the scene, and Sienna could see neighbors who were kind of coming outside, watching from their lawns and driveways, trying to figure out what was going on. Sienna had been very surprised when he had gotten the call from dispatch about a murder

in Penfield, because Penfield was a really nice, safe area. In fact, there had not been a single murder there in more than 40 years. And now he climbed out of his car and walked over to the front lawn where three deputies were interviewing this middle-aged man who looked like he might have just gotten out of bed. One of the deputies saw Sergeant Sienna and so he ran over to him and began to brief him

on what they knew. He explained to Sienna that the man they were speaking to was Kevin Bryant.

“He was the man who had called 911 and he was the husband of the victim, Tabitha Bryant.”

The deputies said that Tabitha and Kevin's two young sons had been inside the house at the time of the shooting, but their grandparents had picked them up a few minutes ago. The house itself had already been searched and there were no signs of forced entry, but it was not hard to guess how the killer or killer is got inside. The garage door had been left open and then the door between the inside of the garage

and the inside of the house had been left unlocked.

So basically anybody off the street could have just waltzed into the house.

Now Sienna knew that in nice safe neighborhoods like Penfield, it was not unusual for people to leave their doors and garage doors unlocked or even open. But at the same time he did think it was a little unusual that it just so happened that on the night of the shooting, you know, the house was unsecured. So he wasn't really sure what to make of that.

At this point Sienna glanced over at the husband, Kevin. And he saw Kevin suddenly bend over and start dryheating. Now Sienna definitely wanted to talk to Kevin, but really he needed to check out the crime scene first and also considering how, you know, Kevin did not appear to be ready to talk right now.

He figured he should just go inside and have a look around. So he ducked under the police tape that was roping off the garage and he made his way inside. Once inside the house, Sienna passed the kitchen and also a playroom and they looked relatively normal and then he got to the den and there was nothing normal about the den.

There was blood everywhere on the walls, the floor, the ceiling and there were all these forensic technicians that were inside of the den, furiously swapping all over the room trying to take samples of all this blood and also trying to photograph the entire scene. And in the middle of all this chaos happening in the den, Sienna saw the victim, Tabitha Bryant.

She was laying on the pullout couch bed. As Sienna walked over to the body to get a closer look, right away he saw this was not just a shooting because Tabitha had, you know, more than a dozen stab wounds to her chest and her neck and then also right below her right eye, there was the small clean hole that Sienna recognized as a gunshot wound.

This was an excessive amount of violence and it made Sienna think that this could have been a crime of passion. And the fact that Tabitha clearly had been sleeping on the pullout couch in the den instead of in bed with her husband, made Tabitha's husband Kevin, Sienna's prime suspect. At 840 AM on July 14, 2003, so about nine hours after Tabitha Bryant was killed, Sergeant

Paul Sienna sat across from her husband, Kevin, at a diner in Rochester, New York. Now normally Sienna would conduct interviews like this at the sheriff's office, but he

that this informal setting would hopefully get Kevin to be a bit more talkative.

“So Sienna was suspicious of Kevin, one because he was the husband of the victim and right”

away in murder cases, you know, spouses are regarded as early suspects. And then also this unusually violent murder, I mean, the murder itself was rare in a town like this, but it was just so violent, so much gore and blood, it just sort of screamed. This is a personal attack. This is a crime of passion, again, making Kevin seem suspicious here.

However, the physical evidence made it look like Kevin actually could not have done it. He didn't have any blood or defensive injuries on him, which would make sense if he was the killer. I mean, given how much blood was seen, there should be someone him, and Sienna had checked these sinks and showers at the house to see if maybe Kevin had had gotten blood on himself,

but cleaned himself up before police arrived. But there was no sign that there had been blood in the drains. Plus, the police had spent all night searching the house for murder weapons, a gun and

“maybe a knife, and so far they hadn't found anything.”

Still though, Sienna was not ready to, you know, outright dismiss Kevin as a suspect. And he was looking for any holes in Kevin's story at this point. As Kevin had already explained multiple times by this point, he said he had come home from work around 9pm that I before. He said he took the trash out, and then he went right up to his bedroom to read.

While Tabitha was a sleep on the pullout couch downstairs. But at around 1130pm, Kevin said he had gotten a very strange phone call. He had answered, and it was a woman, and she had said hello, but then it was silent, and there was just static on the line. Kevin eventually had just hung up and said he thought it was just a wrong number, but

then he said a little while later, just before midnight, he'd heard gunshots and screams.

Kevin said at that point, he got up and he ran to his kid's bedroom first to make sure

they were safe, and when he saw they were, then he went downstairs and he found Tabitha dead in the den. And so now Sienna is sitting across from Kevin and they're both. He asked him, "Do you have any idea who could have done this?" And Kevin, he paused for a moment, and then when he spoke his voice cracked and he actually

began to cry, as he sort of choked out that his wife's death was his fault. Now at first, Sienna thought, "Oh my goodness, is this guy about to confess that he kill her? Is he going to tell me that?" But when he pressed Kevin to continue, like, "What do you mean by that?"

Kevin very tearfully would say that, you know, he thought he maybe was the one who would left the garage open when he had taken out the trash, and he suspected that that must have been how the killer or killer's gotten inside.

And then, sort of oddly, Kevin continued and basically began to lay out this whole theory

for what might have happened that night, sort of unprompted, he's just giving his opinion. Kevin said, as he saw it, a burglar must have driven by saw their garage was open and decided to rob the house. However, he said, "When they went inside the house to rob it, they must have been caught off guard when they saw a tabatha in the den."

And she must have woken up, and there must have been some sort of confrontation and the burglar or burglar's must have panicked and killed her and then fled without even robbing the place, like that's probably what happened. And Sargent Sienna did not give off how he felt about, you know, what Kevin was doing and what he was saying, he just sort of nodded thoughtfully like he was considering his theory.

However, in reality, Sienna had already considered the possibility of this being a burglary gone wrong, but the way Tabatha had actually been killed just felt way too personal to chalk it up to a random intruder. And also, you know, again, nothing from the house had been stolen, so what Sienna really

“wanted to know from Kevin was why was Tabatha sleeping on the couch and not up with you?”

And to Sienna's surprise, Kevin was actually really open about these problems in their marriage. He explained that Tabatha was young, you know, 20 years younger than he was, and she wanted to go to clubs and see friends every night of the week. Well, he was, you know, usually too busy and too tired for doing that kind of stuff, so she would do it alone.

Kevin said that once he'd realized his marriage was actually in trouble because of this dynamic, he said he'd put a lot of effort into trying to fix it by taking Tabatha

out more often, and he'd thought things were basically back on track until a few months

ago when he'd found out that she was actually having an affair. He said he'd drawn up divorce papers and then on the verge of filing them, but Tabatha had ultimately promised that she would break off the affair, so he had decided to give her one more chance. As Kevin said this, Sienna watched him very closely, trying to gauge whether or not Kevin

was lying. Kevin definitely seemed nervous as he was speaking, and he also kept tapping his foot and

and maybe some shock, you know, lingering shock.

“Sienna checked his watch and saw it was almost 9 o'clock, and he knew Kevin by this point”

had been awake for about 24 hours. But Sienna didn't want to just let him off the hook right now, because if Kevin was guilty

if he really did kill his wife or had something to do with it, Sienna knew he might never

get a better shot at a confession than right now. So he decided he would just push Kevin to his breaking point and see if he'd crack. Eight hours later, around 4 p.m., Sienna stared at Kevin from across an interview room at the Monroe County Sheriff's Office in downtown Rochester. Kevin was sort of slumped in his chair with his head buried in his hands and he kept

complaining about migraines. Now Sienna was not surprised that Kevin might be feeling worn out right about now, because he'd been answering questions for the last 17 hours. And they'd covered everything from the details of Kevin and Tapethos relationship to their extended families, including the fact that Tapethos have brother, Cyrol had lived with them

“for a few months earlier in the year and it had sort of ended badly.”

And by this point, Kevin had made it clear that he actually thought Keith Cromwell, the guy Tapethos had been cheating on him with, should be a suspect, and Sienna had to agree. However, what Sienna couldn't get over right now was just how angry Kevin sounded. Whenever he mentioned Keith, I mean, he was truly enraged. He clearly was not remotely over his wife's affair.

And so now Sienna was trying to gauge if maybe Kevin was angry enough about this to have committed murder. And so Sienna decided he would push Kevin a little bit further and extend the interview, and he did this by suggesting that they go ahead and order dinner. And at that point, Kevin, who was totally mad, he jumped about his chair and he said that

unless he was under arrest, he needed to go back to his kids. And Sienna did not have the evidence to hold Kevin. So he had no choice but to tell him that, of course, he was free to leave.

“And as Sienna watched a deputy escort Kevin out of the room, he felt a little disappointed”

that he had not managed to get a confession. But he had gotten some pretty promising leads. Primarily, there was Tapethas' half-brother, Sirol, who definitely sounded like he knew a lot about Kevin and Tapethas' relationship, and he could have some good insights. And also, Sienna was thinking as soon as possible, he needed to speak to Keith, who was Tapethas

a fair partner. At 10am the next morning, Sargent Sienna sat across from a broad shouldered, bald, middle-aged man in the living room of a small house outside of Rochester. This was Keith Kromwell, the man that Tapethas had been having an affair with. And he struck Sienna as being a pretty tough intense guy.

So Sienna was actually a bit taken aback when he asked Keith about his affair with Tapethas and Keith just began to cry, just seemed sort of uncharacteristic for the way he appeared,

at least at first glance.

But Keith quickly wiped his eyes and apologized, and then he asked what exactly Sienna wanted to know. And Sienna told him to just, you know, start at the beginning. So Keith explained that he was a machine operator at a local factory, and it was a really stressful job.

So Keith would sometimes blow off steam by going to a nearby strip club. And it was at that strip club, about six months earlier, that he had met Tapetha Bryant. And this really caught Sienna off guard, and he immediately asked Keith, like, what was Tapetha doing there at the strip club? But Keith just shrugged and said, Tapetha had a wild side.

She was a regular there. Sienna was still sort of taken aback by this, and really didn't know what to think of it. But he just told Keith to keep telling his story. And so Keith continued, and he explained how he and Tapetha had exchanged numbers that

first night, and then started texting and calling, and how that eventually turned into

regular meetups, when Kevin was at work. He said by July, they were hanging out several times a week, and speaking on the phone basically every day, and Keith said this continued right up until Tapetha's death. And here Sienna had to stop Keith again, because Kevin had told Sienna that Tapetha and Keith their affair was over.

But here Keith was basically telling Sienna the opposite. And so when Sienna pressed him on it, Keith said that actually Tapetha had called him around the 11 pm on Sunday night, only about an hour before she was killed. So this timing just felt like way too big of a coincidence. And it made Sienna wonder if Keith was actually just trying to give himself an alibi.

Except it was not a very good one, because Keith lived close enough to Tapetha and Kevin that after that last phone call at about 11 o'clock, he would have had time to hang up the phone and drive over to their house and commit the murder by midnight. So this really wasn't an alibi. So now Sienna realized he was in a tough spot here.

And so basically neither man could be ruled out.

“They were kind of like equally primary suspects at this point.”

And on top of that, the additional information that Tapetha had been a regular at a strip club just raised a lot of additional questions. He realized he really needed to speak to someone who really knew Tapetha. 5 days later, on July 19th, 2003, Sargent Sienna stood inside of a cemetery at the back of a group of mourners and watched as Tapetha Bryant's casket was lowered into the ground.

Sienna had come to tapetha's funeral not only to pay his respects, but also because he was looking for her half-brother, Cyrell. And he had two reasons he really wanted to speak to him. First of all, he thought Cyrell might have some additional unique insights into Tapetha's various relationships.

I mean, Cyrell had lived with Tapetha and Kevin and their kids earlier that year. Sienna had heard that Cyrell and Tapetha were quite close. And so maybe she had shared some additional insights that he would know.

But the second reason for wanting to speak to Cyrell was recently Sienna had also begun to

look at Cyrell as being maybe a potential suspect. So Sienna had spoken with a number of Tapetha's friends and from those interviews, Sienna had learned that Cyrell and his girlfriend Cassidy were also both regulars at that same strip club that Tapetha went to. And then on top of that, Sienna knew that, you know, Cyrell and Cassidy had been caught

using drugs by Tapetha and Kevin.

“And that's why they had been booted from the house just a few months ago.”

And so who knows, there could be some bad blood there. And so this made Sienna wonder if Tapetha's murder might have had nothing to do with her affair. And everything to do with, you know, very likely some fight that she had had with Cyrell and Cassidy when she caught them and kicked them out.

But now, as Sienna scanned the funeral crowd, he didn't see anybody who matched Cyrell's description. And so when the service ended and all the mourners began making their way out to the parking lot, Sienna hustled over to Tapetha's mother and he asked her, had Cyrell attended the funeral.

She said that actually, no one had heard from Cyrell since the night Tapetha was killed. And she said that she was really worried about him because Cyrell's mental health was quite fragile. About a year earlier, he'd suffered a huge mental breakdown after the death of another

“sibling, which was why Tapetha had invited him to live with her in the first place.”

And so now, Tapetha's mom was afraid that Cyrell had spiraled again and might be in trouble.

But as empathetic as Sienna was, ultimately, this information he was getting from the mother

did not paint Cyrell as like a guy in need of help. It painted Cyrell as being really suspicious. And so as politely as he could, Sienna asked the mom, if she had any idea of how he could go about trying to find Cyrell, like any way he could even begin that process. And Tapetha's mom, she thought for a moment, and then said that if anyone knew where

Cyrell was, it was his girlfriend, Cassidy Green. One night, about a week after Tapetha's funeral, Sargent Sienna sat in the back of an unmarked fan in downtown Rochester. And through the windshield, he watched a man standing alone in an alley pacing back and forth constantly checking his phone.

This was all part of a sting operation that Sienna hoped would finally lead him to Tapetha's half-brother Cyrell. Ever since Tapetha's funeral, he and his fellow deputies have been trying to track Cyrell down, but so far they'd had no luck. It looked an awful lot like Cyrell had either left town, or was actively hiding from

the police. However, Sienna had managed to locate Cyrell's girlfriend, Cassidy, who it would turn out, was well-known to the police for being a drug dealer and an escort, who went by the working name of Angel. Now, Sienna doubted that if he approached Cassidy directly, that she would just immediately

give up Cyrell's location willingly, and so what he needed to do was get leverage on her first. So Sienna went to an informant of his, with a plan. The informant would reach out to Cassidy, or Angel, looking to buy some cocaine, and then once they had clear evidence that she had broken the law by selling these drugs, Sienna

would arrest her, and then try to strike a deal to get her to talk about Cyrell. So now, through a pair of binoculars, Sienna watched as a small blonde woman appeared at the far end of the alley. His heartbeat picked up as he realized it was definitely Cassidy, and he watched as she walked right up the alley and began talking to the informant, the man who had been pacing

before on his phone. And when Sienna saw the money and drugs change hands, he gave the command on his radio to go ahead and move in. In an instant, two police cars rounded the corner with their sirens blaring, cutting off

Cassidy looked completely startled and started to run, before the arriving deputies

“boxed her in, and moments later, they had her in handcuffs.”

The following morning, Sienna stood outside of an interview room at the Sheriff's Office in Rochester, New York. He looked through a two-way mirror, and on the other side of the glass, he watched a deputy question Cassidy, the girlfriend of Tabitha's half-brother Cyrell, who was still missing and still a major suspect.

Now, Cassidy had been completely stonewalling police since they'd arrested her for selling cocaine the night before, and she was still insisting that she had no idea where Cyrell was, or why he'd disappeared. Now to this point, the deputy who was speaking to Cassidy had not brought up Tabitha's murder.

This point, Cassidy seemed to think that her only problem was the cocaine charge. And so as Sienna watched this interview just kind of go in circles and drag because Cassidy

“just was not giving them anything, finally Sienna just couldn't take it anymore, and he”

just busted in the room, and he slammed a folder down right on the table, totally shocking not just the deputy, but Cassidy, they both looked at him like what are you doing. And then before Cassidy could say or do anything, Sienna looked right at her and just said, "I don't care about your drug charge. What I want to know is what you know about Tabitha Brian's murder."

And at first, Cassidy just stared back at Sienna and said nothing.

And for a minute, Sienna thought maybe he had sort of miscalculated here, but then after a long awkward pause, Cassidy's whole demeanor shifted, and she started to talk. Based on witness testimony, evidence collected at the crime scene, and the killer's eventual confession. Here is a reconstruction of what police believe happened to Tabitha Brian, on the night

of July 13, 2003.

“Around 11.50pm, the killer very carefully crept through the first floor of the Brian”

Tom carrying a rifle, and they went straight to the den where they found Tabitha, a sleep on the pullout couch. For a moment, the killer paused just staring down at Tabitha, wondering, you know, questioning whether they could really go through with this, but then after just a little bit of deliberation in their own minds, they raised the rifle, and they fired.

The bullet entered Tabitha's skull right under her right eye, but it didn't kill her.

And so as the killer is standing there watching, expecting Tabitha to basically be motionless.

Tabitha wasn't. Her body began jerking around, and then she suddenly reached up and grabbed it or cheek, and she sat up, and she looked at the killer and began to scream. And so the killer immediately fired two more times, but Tabitha was moving around so much in her own panic that both shots missed, and then on the fourth shot, when the killer

pulled the trigger for the fourth time, the rifle jammed. And so at this point, the killer completely panicked. And so the killer turns, and they run into the kitchen, all the while Tabitha is flailing around in the den, she's screaming bloods going everywhere, and the killer, they grab a butcher's knife from the kitchen, they run back into the den, and when they get there,

they see Tabitha is now standing, and she's clutching at her face, she's screaming, and the killer tackles her back onto the bed and begins stabbing her over and over again

in the neck and the chest until she does finally go limp.

When the killer climbed off of Tabitha and stood back up, they realized they, like the rest of the room, were covered in blood, and so the killer began to sort of backing away from the scene, not really sure what they were going to do, then as they're doing this, they here and noise behind them, and they whip around, and they see there was a figure coming down the stairs, and when this figure got to the bottom of the stairs, they walked right

up to the killer, and handed them an envelope, and the killer took the envelope, you know, blood all over them, they take the envelope, they opened it up, they look inside to confirm that yes, it was stuffed with $100 bills. It would turn out, the person who actually wielded the rifle and the knife and literally killed Tabitha was her half-brother Cyrell, he got covered in blood so that the real

mastermind, Tabitha's husband, Kevin, could keep his hands clean. Kevin paid Cyrell and his girlfriend, Cassidy, $5,000 to do his dirty work for him. Cyrell committed the murder, and Cassidy drove the getaway car, but long before they got to the house that night, Kevin was setting things up so that the murder would go according to his plan. Kevin opened the garage and unlocked the door to the house so that

Cyrell could come inside no problem, and when he found Tabitha and their bed upstairs, he woke her up and told her to head on down to the den, or he knew Cyrell would look

Kevin was motivated by anger over Tabitha's affair with Keith, and also the fear that he would lose his kids if they got divorced.

“But ironically, it was actually Kevin's own actions that drove Tabitha literally into”

Keith's arms.

Kevin betrayed himself as this hard-working lawyer who basically was a workaholic and all

he did was provide for his family, but in reality he was a drug and sex addict who routinely brought sex workers to his law office. His idea of working on his marriage, as he said he and Tabitha were doing after he discovered her affair, really just involved taking Tabitha to strip clubs and then pressuring her into

“having group sex with other sex workers, and then he would also pressure her to give”

lap dances to the other clientele and one of those other clientele was Keith. That's how they met.

Kevin and Cyrell were both convicted of first remurder and sentenced to life without

parole, as for Cassidy, she ultimately took a plea deal and received 15 years. A quick note about our stories, they are all based on true events, but we sometimes use pseudonyms to protect the people involved, and some details are fictionalized for dramatic purposes. The Mr. Ballem Podcast, strange dark and mysterious stories, is hosted and executive produced

by me, Mr. Ballem.

Our head of writing is Evan Allen, produced by Jeremy Bohn and Cole Calaccio.

This episode was written by Andrew Keller. Research and fact checking by Shelley Xu, Samantha Banhouss, Evan Beamer, Abigail Schumway, Camille Callahan, Alex Paul, Ben Fassiano. Research and fact checking supervision by Steven Err. Audio editing and post-produced by Whitley Calaccio and Jordan Stitham.

Research and support by Antonio Manata and Delana Coreley, artwork by Jessica Klogst and Kiner, theme song "Something Wicked" by Ross Bubden. Thank you for listening to the Mr. Ballem Podcast, and just a reminder, every new and exclusive episode we've put out on the Mr. Ballem Podcast, you can also now watch on the Mr. Ballem YouTube channel that very same day, and trust me, some of these stories you truly have

to see to believe, again my YouTube channel is just called Mr. Ballem.

“If you want to listen to episodes one week early, and add free, you can subscribe to”

SiriusXM Podcast Plus on Apple Podcasts, or visit SiriusXM.com/podcastplus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. So that's going to do it, I really appreciate your support, until next time, see ya. [Music]