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Mamma, how do you feel the great Liban? Hmm, is this sad and so creamy? Hey, we can then pop a creamy sign. Nutella, what a fan Mamma is and what a perfect Liban. Nutella is Nutella.
You're listening to an ono media podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband.
Number husband. Thank you guys so much for being here and for constantly supporting the show. We love you guys more than you know.
And honestly, I hope you are having an amazing week.
Just a reminder, we do have a merch available.
“If you want to go check it out, you can find the link to that on our Instagram.”
Big, big huge ginormous announcement. Nothing to do with the podcast. I announced my Bagel Shop name. There's an Instagram account for the Bagel Shop. I'm posting on it.
We're opening honestly probably within two months. I'm stressed. There's a lot going on busy spent all day plumbing something that didn't work. That's okay. Life goes on. Anyways, if you want to support, this is probably the last moment.
I'll mention it for a second so I don't annoy anyone. But the Instagram account to my Bagel Shop will be below. You can go check it out. I'm going to be posting Bagel Content.
I'm going to be posting business content on what it's like opening a Bagel Shop all the equipment.
That's coming in just kind of eight through Z, the whole building process. So go and check it out if you are interested. And that can be my 10 seconds. Like I said, I was plumbing earlier and it's just not working and it's making me so mad. And now we're recording and all I can think about is how I can't fix this plumbing issue.
That's my life. You know, crazy life, plumbing bagels, podcasts. You don't want to tell the listeners the name? No, you have to go check it out.
“Gotta go look. If you want to know the name, you gotta go look.”
Okay, tell them what you were plumbing. Patience vanity sink. There's just a bunch of issues the way it was installed. It's just like a bunch of Lego pieces and it shouldn't be a bunch of Lego pieces, but I have to make it a bunch of Lego pieces.
So I just ordered a bunch of stuff from Home Depot. It should be here in a bit, but we're going to go eat after this and then I'm going to try to fix it tonight. I don't know, it's crazy. If you can't tell I'm a little frustrated, but I'm trying not to be. And yeah, that's what I got.
All right, you ready for the episode? Let's do it. You guys ready for the episode? Yeah. Getting, all right, let's get into it.
Our sources for this episode are CBS News.com USA Today.com. NBCwashington.com CBS6Albany.com WJLA.com the independent.com Augusta Free Press.com FFX now.com TMZ WUSA9.com and Washington Post. So part of the reason we are so fascinated with through crime is because we want to get inside the minds of the people who commit these crimes, try and understand what makes a monster.
“Which leads to questions like, how does someone even become a serial killer?”
If someone killed with intention once, does it mean that they're going to do it again? Yes. Or can those impulses be channeled elsewhere? No. Especially when they walk away from their crime completely undetected.
And Garrett saying yes and no, but it is very heard of of not just random killers but serial killers who one day just stop. Golden State Killer. But did they? Yes.
BTK. But like did they actually stop? The Golden State Killer, yes. How do we know? He said so.
I mean, he can't also say so. But can we trust them? They had such a severe MO. I know, I just, they've lied their entire lives. Yeah, I get that out.
I just, I think it refused to trust. Yeah. I don't know, I don't think, like, I think what actually probably happens if the opportunity presented itself? They would do it again.
They would do it again. They just weren't searching out. Think they weren't searching out. Then we got an old or they think got harder. But I think if the opportunity presented itself in front of them,
they'd be like, yeah. You know what's interesting? I think it's, um, I probably bad thing to compare it to.
I mean, for those who are like sober, right?
And it's trying to quite alcohol. That's what we were going to say.
“Yeah, it's exactly what I was talking about.”
Like they try to either stay away from alcohol. They try to distance themselves from X amount, X drug, whatever it is. Because they know if the opportunity presents itself, it makes it harder. Which, not comparing that to serial killers because completely different. But they compare it in their minds.
I've heard multiple interviews from serial killers who kill because they have urges to. And they say I was trying my best not to. I was trying to avoid situations that would put me in it. Hate that because I just think there's such evil people. I hate giving them the, uh, what's the word, not benefit of the doubt.
But the chance that there is another reasonable explanation, I guess. Is what I'm trying to say? And I know, no reason. And I know you and I probably disagree on this. I just think if you kill evil person, leave society.
I don't disagree with that. Yeah.
“I think I disagree with, this is kind of long intro.”
It's fine. Like reformation or reformation, which I highly want to say. I just disagree with that when someone kills somebody. I think I can all situations. Not manslaughter.
First degree, second degree murder.
Yes. Yeah. I think if you can cross that line, you are, um, what if it was one time versus serial killer? It's like, what's the one time consist of, like domestic abuse or anything?
Yeah, in violence. I just think once you cross that line of killing somebody, like, first, second degree of murder, I think there is, I am, I dare to say, 100% of the time, if the opportunity presented itself again, they would do it. Yeah.
Even if the motive was very specific. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I don't know. It's just, I mean, Israel keys, for instance.
Okay. He claimed that he would rob banks in place of killing people because it held off his urges. It, like, calmed him down enough to, like, feed the adrenaline and the urge he was having, but then eventually robbing banks or doing other things weren't enough.
And he would end up killing. Exactly. Which is so, uh, the mind is just a pattern that repeats and repeats.
“I think once the killer always a killer.”
Okay. Like I said, first degree of second degree, I think manslaughter and other situations are unique, but man, you walk away. Can you be done, which is why today's story is unique. It is about a case that ran cold for decades and then a new technology led to a
breakthrough and a killer that was never once suspected.
He had a job. He had a family. He had a completely normal life. Actually, more common than you would think, which had him asking many of these questions about himself.
Why did I kill? And was the monster still living inside of him, just waiting to be unleashed once more, as Carrie would say. So with that, let's head back to 1994 to a bustling suburb outside of Washington, D.C.
called Springfield, Virginia. That is where 37-year-old artist and mother Robin Lawrence is living her peaceful life. Now Robin was described as a gentle soul who always had a smile on her face. She was also someone who had a lot to be proud of at 37. She was in a happy marriage.
She had a two-year-old little girl, a job as the director of advertising for a
tire company, and she was also the daughter of the first black man to be a counselor
on the Syracuse Common Council in New York. This is the legislative body of the local government there. But Robin's passions were different from her father's. She attended Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and graduated with a fine arts degree.
Everyone who knew her said she was an extremely gifted artist, especially when it came to pencil sketches and watercolors, but it's not shocking. She graduated in the arts. And after graduating, she was actually selected to create the first medal for the Martin Luther King Junior Nonviolent Peace Prize.
This was in a ward that was actually then given to Rosa Parks. Then, she later moved to Washington, D.C., where she met her husband, Ollie. And friends said, Ollie and Robin were perfect for each other. Ollie completely matched Robin's demeanor.
He was also easygoing. He made people feel comfortable around him. He was a warm man with a kind smile. And on New Year's Eve, 1989, the two tied the knot, and then three years later, they had their daughter Nicole. Now, by then,
Robin had her job in advertising, I talked about earlier,
and Ollie was an executive for an airline.
“So, in 1994, when Nicole, the daughter, was about two,”
the couple was living this very domesticated life. Ollie traveled quite a bit for work, but Robin made the most of her husband's time away. She would work on her art to do some improvements around the home. They really were living the American dream, content to live out their days as this happy little family in suburbia.
That was until November 20, 1994. Now, that week, Ollie had been away on a work trip in the Bahamas, and after not hearing from Robin for about 48 hours or so,
he decided to call Robin's good friend and neighbor,
Lori Lindberg. So, he's in the Bahamas, he's trying to get a hold of his wife back home. She's not answering 48 hours go by. He calls her friend and neighbor, Lori.
“Now, Lori and Robin had been close for years. They met back in Washington, DC at a ballet class.”
They'd quickly become friends. They eventually got an apartment together, and were roommates before Robin met Ollie and then moved out to live with him. So, this wasn't just any neighbor, when Lori heard from Ollie, she was nervous too, because Robin is a pretty long-term friend of hers. So, Lori gets up, and she walks over to Robin's home and knocks on the front door.
But there's no answer. So, Lori decides to go around back, and she saw one of the back window screens of the family home was cut. And so, this is when she realizes something is probably wrong. So, she actually climbs in through the window, which I totally understand why she did, but zero out of ten recommend,
because nowadays we know that there's probably so much evidence in that window, but I don't think back then, that was common knowledge. So, she climbs in, and she starts calling Robin's name, obviously desperate and worried about her friend. But it wasn't Robin who appeared. Instead, two-year-old, baby, no--
Oh, no, what? Came wandering up to her, looking at her. That's so sad. With these giant eyes and this blank expression on her face, and that's when Lori's heart sank, she continued toward the primary bedroom,
noticing blood all over the walls, and large splatters of blood on the floor. And when she notices all of this, sees the state of two-year-old Nicole, she decides I'm not even going to step into the bedroom. This is her dear friend, she knows something is terribly wrong. So, she picks up Nicole, she gets out of the house and dials 911.
No, that's horrible. Now, moments later, the police arrived to the scene, and it was around 1230 p.m. when they entered the house and found Robin's body, face down on the floor of the primary bedroom with a pillow between her legs. She had extensive knife wounds all over her body.
The autopsy would later count 49 stab wounds to her body. Now, the phone was also on the floor next to Robin, but the cord had been cut. Officials determined by this point, Robin had been dead for about two days, which if you're putting two and two together, means yes, her two-year-old daughter had been left
alone by herself with her mother's body for that long. Now, meanwhile, Lori took Nicole to the hospital for treatment, remember we are in 1994. Now, thankfully, Nicole was completely unharmed in the attack, but I mean, she has been alone for two days. However, Nicole had undergone a liver transplant in the past, so she was on immunosuppressive medications
that she now hadn't taken in two days, so her health was fragile. Luckily, she was discharged shortly after she was treated for dehydration.
Now, of course, the psychological damage for those last two days would likely never go away.
But back at the scene detectives were trying to piece together what had happened, and they realized that the last time anyone had heard from Robin was around 6pm on the night of Friday, November 18th.
“I mean, sadly, I think as soon as you see the screens cut,”
like you instantly know what's going on, like you know something bad happened, because no one
Goes and cuts people's screens for no reason, you know?
You really were jumping to the conclusion someone's dead in there. For sure. I don't think they're dead.
“I think most people would air on the right side and people would have branched just like,”
hit the screen and cut it. No, but just like, hopefully it's a robbery and they're tied up inside. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I think I think after doing so many of these cases,
just always expect the worst.
This is also 1994. I mean, we have forensic files on TV, but I was born. Yeah. I don't know if as many people were as pessimistic on their safety as people are today. Yeah, sure. pessimistic isn't even the word realistic.
Yeah, about their safety. So they're trying to piece together what happened, and they believe that she was killed shortly after she was last heard on Friday, November 18th, at around 930 that night. They discovered that Robin had been assaulted first on the bed and then fought her way down to the floor where the struggle continued.
They also found a bunch of bloody tissues all around the house, which they actually believe came from two-year-old Nicole, who they believe was like subconsciously trying to clean the blood off of her mom because she knew something was wrong.
“There was also something else in the bathroom, though, that police realized could be important.”
Washcloth. It was sitting on the towel rod on the shower's sliding glass door, and it had a few spots of blood on it, which investigators thought could actually be long to the killer. So detectives collected a few other blood samples at the scene in case the assailants DNA was mixed in with robins, but when they took it back and ran it through codeus, which did exist at this point, but was fairly new. They didn't find a match.
All they could really tell from the scene beyond that was that this didn't appear to be a robbery. There were no valuables taken from inside the home, cash, jewelry, and other items were actually still sitting around, and they determined there was no evidence of sexual assault either. It was more just physical assault. So their first instinct was actually that this murder had to be personal. Now, as this is all going on, Lori Lindberg, the friend and neighbor
who found Nicole and called police, was actually asked by police to notify Robin's parents about their daughter's death. And when Robin's sister Mary heard the news that her sister had died,
she imagined it was from a car accident or a heart attack. She never in a million years thought
her sister would be a victim of murder. Mainly because it didn't make sense, not only were the police keeping pertinent information from the family, they knew Robin had no enemies, and they also felt certain that there was no way all he would have done this to her. But just three days after what should have been, Robin's 38th birthday, her family and friends were paying their respects at her funeral. Now, because Robin's injuries were so significant, it was a closed casket ceremony.
Her sister Mary said it was incredibly hard because she was never able to lay eyes on her sister one final time. But that funeral was also unsettling for another reason. Based on what little information the police had shared with the family about the murder, they felt it had to be someone who knew Robin. Someone who might have been at the funeral with them, a wolf in sheep's clothing. Now, of course, for the police, their first person of interest was the one closest to Robin,
and whether the family suspected him or not, it was obviously her husband, Ollie.
Now, from the get-go, Ollie was always extremely cooperative with the police. Not to mention,
he was out of the country when his wife was killed in the Bahamas for that business trip. And this was confirmed by detectives who literally flew down to the Bahamas to check Ollie's alibi in person. But when police start looking into Ollie, he wasn't squeaky clean. They learned Ollie had actually been having an affair with one of his co-workers. Then Robin didn't seem to know anything about it, so this makes detectives wonder,
“could this have been the jealous co-worker looking to remove Robin from the equation?”
Or could Ollie have put the co-worker up to it or hired a hitman? Well, after looking into this other woman, they find that's not the case. They actually clear her pretty quickly. The affair was an unfortunate scenario, one that probably poured salt
In the wound of Robin's family.
Ollie would never do anything to hurt his wife. Plus, Ollie and his mistress had offered
“up DNA to compare to the blood that was found at the crime scene, and when detectives ran it,”
they found zero match for either of them. So the unknown DNA on that bloody towel was still a mystery. It didn't belong to Robin, or anyone else they were considering as a suspect. And it wasn't matching any of the results in codis, which meant over time, Robin's case actually started to run cold. Still, Robin's family refused to let her story disappear. Ollie and Nicole moved out of the house, but Robin's parents actually moved in
for a few weeks after, hoping that they could just figure something out, maybe the killer would return, maybe a new clue would surface. Maybe someone would respond to the reward they had posted about getting more information. But the years passed with no new leads. Eventually, Robin's family
“came to terms with the possibility that Robin's case might never be solved. Their daughter was”
murdered, and they have no idea who did it, or why. In fact, Robin's mother actually passed away in 1994, not knowing what happened to her daughter that November night. So the family tried to move forward to be okay with just not knowing. That wasn't until 2019. That's when a volunteer with
the police department, who's only known by her first name, Liz, actually asked to take a look
at Robin's cold case. Liz was an amateur geneologist at the time, and she thought Robin's case was a good candidate for her studies. Especially since there was an identified DNA left behind at the crime scene. I mean, this is the perfect case for a modern day DNA solved. So with permission she submitted that DNA over to a company called Parabon Nanolabs. Talked about them before.
“They uploaded it to their databases to see if there was anyone out there who had willingly submitted”
DNA to ancestry websites who might share a piece of DNA with the unknown assailant. That way, Liz could build out a family tree, and hopefully find a relative who might have lived in Robin's area at the time. Maybe had a connection to Robin. Now, unfortunately, Parabon didn't have high hopes that this process would work. They said the chances of solving her case this way were
basically zero. And if you're wondering, okay, why? It was because when they ran this DNA,
they found over 1500. Oh, my gosh. Okay. I mean, they have matches for second, fourth, fifth, sixth cousins. That means Liz would basically be trying to put together a family tree of 1500 people, and then see if any of them had a connection to Robin. They're like, listen, this is going to take you a long time. We almost have too much DNA to work with. An needle in a haystack. What they did learn from that sample, though, was the suspects ethnicity. Eastern European,
about 25% Irish, and a combo of English, Italian, and Scandinavian. Unfortunately, that's all they really had to work off of for a while. That wasn't until 2021. When Parabon reached out about using a new tool to help potentially identify the suspect in Robin's case. It's actually a really cool tool called DNA phenotyping. And if you don't know what that is, I'm going to explain it as best I can. Basically, it works like this. By analyzing a person's
DNA, scientists can now predict what someone might actually look like. They can use a DNA to determine if their skin is fair or dark. Are their eyes likely blue or brown? Do they have a wider draw, a narrow nose? Are their eyes set close together? You can literally tell this from DNA. And then companies like Parabon work with a forensic artist who can put together a sketch or a 3D rendering based on those features. The one thing DNA can't tell scientists yet, though, is their age.
So they can tell what they may have looked like, but they don't know on a ratio of how young to how old. So artists typically render them to match someone in like their mid 20s, which is exactly what they did for the DNA found at Robin's home. And the sketch they ended up with was a white male with blueish hazel eyes, light brown hair, thin lips and a narrow chin. The picture is
Going to be on our Instagram or if you're watching here.
friends the picture to say, hey, we don't know how old. We don't know who, but we have used the DNA
“to put together a picture of what we think the murderer looked like. Do you know this person?”
Like, do you recognize this? Is it a neighbor? Is it a friend? A male man, a gardener. But no one in the family said this guy looked familiar. Even Ollie told her at police that the face didn't ring any bells. So the sketch ends up being a bit of a dead end. And police are kind of shocked because if you remember, they had predicted that the murderer would be someone Robin knew. It was a personal attack because there was no sexual assault. So they're a little
shocked that no one recognizes this person, but they continue on. Okay. That same volunteer genealogist Liz does not give up on Robin's case despite the fact that the DNA sample had 1500 potential cousins. So little by little Liz just spends her time checking each potential relative. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. I mean, I don't blame her. She's like, I know this is going to take forever. They told me this is like an needle and hey, stack, but if we have no hits on the sketch,
I'm just going to spend my extra time going through these. Might as well. Three and a half years. She spends going through. Oh, my gosh. That's in her spare time. Horrible. Just checking. Are there
any links? And finally, around 2023, she ends up finding two really good candidates in Canada.
People that appear to be closely related to the suspect. So she builds out their family trees. And she finds that both of those matches actually do have a relative in common. It's a guy who lived in Virginia during the time of the murder rap. They're getting closer. She figures out he would have been in his 20s at the time. It was now a 52-year-old man named Stephen Smirk. So when she hands this name over to detectives and they begin looking into the guy,
he doesn't raise any immediate red flags. He was a family man who had two kids in high school in Neskiu, not New York. He was a computer programmer who married a defense attorney. He had zero criminal record. He didn't even have a speeding ticket attached to his name. But there were a few things that interested detectives, especially as they looked deeper into his background. Back in November of 1994, the time of the murder, he was stationed at an army base 10 miles
from Robin's home, called Fort Meyer in Arlington, Virginia. And when they find a copy of his high school yearbook, they realized that it is not too far off from the phenotype sketch that
was made of the suspect. Interesting. So basically, it's enough for cold case detectives to be like,
okay, on paper, he doesn't seem like our guy, but he kind of looks like the sketch and he was
“in the area and the DNA is potential. So we're going to go talk to him. Oh, I think it's, I mean,”
I guess there was no other way at this point that she had to go through all of that. Yeah, because like his DNA isn't the one in the system. Or we need, this is when you need a chat GPT and all that stuff. I mean, I'm sure it's more automated now, right? It has to be like it has to be able to narrow down potential matches. Well, and I think as someone gets the family trees more connected, you're no longer doing that work because not only is she like sorting through people, she's building
family trees. She's doing genealogy. So in September of 2023, detectives take a trip north to knock on Stephens door. Remember, it had been almost 29 years since Robin's murder. Oh, my gosh. So they're like, if he didn't do this, he's probably not going to be able to tell us what he was doing that Friday night, but their point of this trip is not even really to ask, they just want to collect a sample of his DNA because they're like, we just want to compare it.
Perhaps it offers us no if she was on or if we need to keep going through these potential matches. And that's pretty much what happens. Sort of. So they get to Stephens house. They tell him, hey, we're investigating a cold case from the 90s. He doesn't really seem to phased by it, and he does willingly offer up a cheek swab. In fact, after inviting them in,
“he doesn't really ask them any questions. He's not like, okay, what's the cold case?”
Who's the victim? He's just chill. He shows zero interest. He's like, you want my DNA for this? They're like, yeah, he's like, okay, and the police are in and out within a matter of minutes. It's a bit strange because they're like, why didn't he ask any questions? But they're also like,
If he has nothing to do with it, and he knows he's innocent.
like care, like take my DNA. It's so hard. No matter what. These days it's like, uh, that's suspicious.
Right. So they head back to the hotel that they're staying in expecting to have a quiet night. I return home in the morning to sediene, but that doesn't happen. A few hours later, one of the detectives actually gets a phone call, and it's from Stephens. Okay. He says, hey, I'm actually at the police department. I'm trying to turn myself in, but the doors are locked. And this is detectives like, what? What are you turning yourself in for?
And Stephens like murder? Now keep in mind, these detectives have traveled up from Virginia. This is not their jurisdiction. Oh, my gosh. This is insane. So the detectives are like, hey,
“what station are you at? We'll come meet you. But in the meantime, you should probably hang up”
and call 911 and just notify the local authorities as well because this is not our jurisdiction. So we're also going to need police from here. And that's what Stephens does. He calls 911. He's like, hey, I'm at the police station trying to turn myself in for a cold case. 911. The address is again, I'm actually here to turn myself in for a cold state crime. You're here to turn yourself in. Well, they collected DNA. So it's okay. I want you to last time.
But at this point, detectives are wondering, why is he doing this? Like, it's not like he even acted scared. This is too easy. This is too easy. We haven't even run the DNA sample yet. You probably just realized as soon as it took a DNA, he's like, it was only matter of time. So they're kind of like, is this real? What's going on? They are actually very careful about how they phrase their questions to him once he's in the interrogation room. Because they
want him to share most of the details to see if he's really telling the truth get a pretty strong case. So they're going to go in. They're not going to suggest like you sometimes see. They're really, really going to hold back so that there is no coerced confession. This was willingly given. And we have proof because look at all of the details he gave that we did not offer up.
So here's what he tells them. Back on November 20, 1994, Stefan was a 22 year old soldier at
Fort Worth in Arlington. He was drinking that night with a friend and had taken some effedron. This is basically a strong cold medicine. And he said he took it and then he just decided in his head, you know what? I'm going to kill somebody tonight. He drove around the Lawrence's neighborhood and eventually picked out Robin's house. Like they think it was drug induced? Well, I mean, it's only cold medicine. Yeah. I mean, he's a little high, but he's not out of his mind tripping.
So he tells police. It was completely random. Like Robin's house was a completely random pick. He had no idea who lived there or who he was going to kill. Once he got inside, which is so risky for a first time kill, too. He told the police quote, "There could have been 50 people in that house. I don't know. They could have all had guns
“and shot me dead. I just honestly wasn't even thinking about it." Stefan said an impulse had just”
come over him that he couldn't control. So we entered the house from the back wearing a ski mask and leather gloves, began walking through the house, and that's when he found Robin in our primary bedroom. Now immediately, upon seeing him, Robin jumped out of bed, she got down on our knees and started begging for her life. Oh, that's so awful. But Stefan who was a soldier who didn't even
have a speeding ticket who had never been in trouble before showed her no mercy. He stabbed her close
to 50 times using what he called his combat training that he had been learning. And he also said he noticed that there was a baby asleep in one of the bedrooms and he chose to do nothing. He didn't make a anonymous 911 call to make sure that that baby got rescued. He didn't attack the baby. He fled into the night and let two-year-old Nicole bend for herself for the next two days and tell her mother's body was discovered. But Stefan shared something else that gave detectives confirmation
said Robin had fought back hard. This is something they already knew about the case. But he even showed them a scar from that attack where Robin had actually clawed him on the face so deep at scarred.
“And when detectives asked, okay, what did you do in the house? Like, where did you go?”
Did you go into the bathroom and use a towel to try and clean up because this is where they found his blood? He said he couldn't remember, but it was pretty possible that he did seeing how bad the damage was on his body from her fighting. He very easily could have gone into the bathroom and
Used a towel to try to light clean it up.
the murder weapon into the Chesapeake Bay and headed back to the base as if nothing had happened.
“He took a shower, he tossed his bloody clothes in the dumpster and then never looked back and never”
killed again. Even when talking about it right now, though with police, Stefan showed very little remorse. Yeah, like you see a psychopath? Well, he told detectives. He's like, I don't because he have feelings. I see. Well, he's like, I don't really feel bad for the family. I don't know them. I didn't know her. She was a completely random stranger. Yeah, that's called a psychopath. He said, I actually like the only feelings I have about this crime are for my own sake because he
said, I knew like one day, my personal freedom could be affected by it and that's the only like feeling I've had about it. Oh, okay. So for sure, he's got some issues going on. So no, Stefan didn't turn himself into police because he felt guilty. Like, I finally got caught. This has been weighing on my shoulders. Police showed up, but actually kind of felt good to get this off my chest. Like, I did it. I'm here. No, that is not what happened. It was because he knew they had
his DNA and he was like, I mean, they're going to get me. He had gone on to live the next 29 years, blending in with society. He received awards for his service in the military. He went to rehab. He got sober. He got married. He had two kids. He went back to school. Oh, my God. He bought a home. He worked a job with a six figure salary. He stole Robin's future and then instead went on to
“build his own and never kill again. That's disgusting, honestly. And one of the most disturbing”
parts of that interview though was what he said about this monster inside of him because detectives are like, hey, so this isn't really adding up on paper. Like, this is pretty unusual for what we see. And he's saying, I just have this monster in me. Like, there's a monster inside of me. And they're like, okay. And he says, quote, I'm very kids. I honestly believe that it wasn't for my life from that kids. I probably would be a serial killer. So, I mean, honestly, similar to what I said,
and if the chance presented itself again, he would have done it. But he just went a different
direction than his life and never did it again. Oh, my gosh, it's so hard. But he admits, fully in this
interview, like, it's in me. Like, I could still do it. Like, I could have been a serial killer. I just never, never. Can you imagine being his wife for his kids? No. Like, what? So after this confession, Stefan was arrested and charged with first-degree murder for killing Robin Lawrence. And of course, the police's first call was to Robin's family. I can't imagine how after 29 years this call felt to them. Like, you just re-woke. Yeah. You just awoke something in them that they had probably
spent years trying to find somewhere to put. And then you, but then they, you know, at least they have an answer, but it's not at least because you just reopened a wound. Like, it's just a horrible thing. Yeah, there's still many, there's still going to be so many unanswered questions for them. Like, why? Why did you do it? Yaddy Yaddy Yaddy Yaddy Yaddy. Well, and I've heard so many different scenarios where families are happy to, you know, there's a, I don't want to say happy,
but there's a piece of them that feels a little better knowing what happened. There's families that
are like, I wish you never would have told me. I had finally gotten to a place where I could live
my life and also accept what had happened. And now you've shaken it all up. So some of Robin's other families, members had actually lived in New York, not far from where Stefan had spent the last few decades of his life. They were literally living next to their family members killer. And Robin's niece Lauren said some of her closest friends actually lived across the street from Stefan and his family. They had actually been by his house dozens of times. This is her niece. She had been by
her aunt's killer's house dozens of times with no idea. And while this might have been a huge coincidence, there are other details that might not be. For instance, former FBI pro-filer, Mario Tools says she doesn't think Stefan chose Robin at random that night despite what he said.
“So that's what I was going to say. I was going to say one. I don't think this was random too.”
I promise this wasn't the first time he thought about killing. He didn't just drink some medicine and go, oh, I want to kill someone. No, no. He's been thinking this from years. He's just lying to try to make himself look better because and that's what they do. Like Peyton just said, he obviously has no feelings for anyone else except himself. Yeah, Mary says she thinks he's just trying to like minimize it even though admitting to it and like admitting he's a monster. He's also like
not trying to be like, oh, I stalked her and then I did this. It's just crazy. I did it and then I never
Did it again.
how her family came and went and she thinks this mainly because all he was out of the country on
“business when Stefan attacked. Had he been in the home, it's likely Stefan wouldn't have stood a chance”
and he probably knew that. So what are the odds that the husband is out of town? He knows she's alone. But the real nail in Stefan's coffin was the results from his DNA swab. Friends testing found it was a match with the blood found on the washcloth in Robin's bathroom. In fact,
they said there was a one in seven million chance. It wasn't his blood. Okay. On April 15th,
2024, a grand jury and dieted Stefan on first-degree murder charges. The family desperately wanted to see the case go to trial, not just so that he would get the maximum sentence, but because they wanted his face to be plastered all over the news for the world to know what he had done. Unfortunately, a trial didn't happen. Six months after the indictment, Stefan pleaded guilty to the charges and his attorney fought hard to get him a lighter sentence. His attorney argued that
“back in the 90s Stefan struggled a lot with alcohol and substance use disorders. He believed the”
military would change some of that, and then it didn't because the real issue was that Stefan had
undiagnosed bipolar disorder, which he didn't realize until many years later, and I just want to
get it right off, you know, just bipolar disorder. Undiagnoser diagnosed does not make someone a murderer and is not an excuse for a murder. And that, according to his attorney, combined with the alcohol and the drugs he had taken that night, was a dangerous weapon. She also told the judge that Stefan was dealing with diabetes and heart problems, so any sentence could mean that he might die in prison. When it came time for that sendencing hearing, Stefan's Mark had almost no
one on his side. His children, 17 and 20 years old, had disowned him, his wife had divorced him, and meanwhile, Robin's family filled the courtroom with their love and support of her. At one point, Stefan turned to them, including Robin's grown daughter Nicole, who he left that night, and said, quote, "All these years I have been a coward living with guilt, shame, and self-hatred. It's my sincere hope that my arrest and subsequent incarceration brings some closure."
So complete 180. I just think that he's saying what he thinks people want to hear. I just don't believe him. I'm sorry. He also, well, he's also what is sentencing hearing trying to act good in front of a judge. Yep. He also apologized for the pain and suffering. He caused the family, and after all was set and done, the judge gave Stefan life behind bars with all but 70 years to
spend a basically a fancy way of saying 70 years. And because the crime was committed 41 days
before parole was abolished, in the state of Virginia, the judge did allow him to be eligible for parole. The eligibility will happen in 2037 when Stefan is 65 years old, which he already had 30 years of freedom, like he lived a pretty good chunk of his life, and he's already going to be eligible for parole at 65 when Robin doesn't get to finish her life. That just feels a little light to me. Well, there's nothing they could have done because it wasn't abolished, like it's way the laws were, but I agree 100%.
That brings me back to a question I asked at the beginning of this episode, and that is what makes a serial killer. I mean, if you're going by definition, it's a number of kills, but was Stefan telling the truth when he said he was able to suppress this monster living inside of him, all thanks to his family. Is that monster still there? Like, that doesn't just go away because you get caught? Is it living dormant? And now that his family is no longer there to support him,
and he gets out on parole, does he just give into the monster that he already said was there, and if it weren't for his family, he would be a serial killer, and now he doesn't have his family
“and could get out? Here's the thing, I just don't, there's a lot I don't believe. I don't believe”
that he wouldn't have killed again before he died. I don't believe that he wasn't looking at like child pornography or other crazy things. I just don't, I don't think you can kill someone and admit you're a, you want to kill people and then just live an normal life. That's just not, that doesn't, that's not possible. Do you think he did kill and then get caught? Exactly, 100%, those are the other, like the other, there's so many unsolved cases. I mean,
statements like I am a serial killer who only killed once should not be taken lightly. If Stefan Smark is released before his life is over, does that give him another opportunity? There's no way he is, like there's no way that he gets that on parole. Because when someone claims that their motive to
Kill was just simply to kill for enjoyment, there's no money, there's no hatr...
there's nothing. That is a different kind of monster than the people we typically cover.
One that should be handled very carefully before releasing it back into the wild. And that is the
“murder of Robin Lawrence. I just before we go, I just want to take a second to remember that”
Robin's family lived so many years, well, her mom died without even knowing what happened to her.
They lived so many years in this unknown and then just poured salt in the wound by it reopening
and figuring out what had happened and hearing the details and then, you know, the daughter now can look at someone who left her there. And I just want to have like a moment of thinking about
“them and love and grace and support for them even if we're not in person with them. I think that”
this case actually brings up a lot of questions that we stumble upon in true crime, especially when it comes to serial killers or people who kill out of enjoyment, what's going on in the brain can there be reform and it's just like, yeah. I mean, I don't know, I'm pretty harsh when I come to this and I think Peyton I might have different opinions, I don't know, but I'm pretty harsh when I come to this and it's kind of ironic because I see some people that get mad at me
for having this opinion. That's okay, each their own, but I promise it would be a different scenario if someone killed someone in your family. Yeah, no. I'm just not, yeah, it's not something you really for sure speak. You don't kill people. Like for me, it's just a hard line. No andiffs or
butts. You kill someone. Goodbye. And it'll always be like that. I don't care the scenario.
Like I said earlier, I'm speaking out first degree in second degree murder. I'm not necessarily talking about manslaughter or exceptions outside of that. I'm talking about cases specific to the
“one we just did. I think it's important to remember people make mistakes every day and are”
ugly versions of themselves all the time and making an ugly choice because of many different reasons, all these actual reasons going on in the human psyche that could affect people is very different than taking someone's life. And that is an important distinction to understand it made. All right you guys, thank you for listening to today's episode and we will see you next time with another one. I love it. I hate it. Goodbye.
