Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 98: Grasp It

>> This is exactly right. [MUSIC] >> I'm Michelle McFee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, on Mormon polygamist, and an Armenian businessman.

>> Multi-million dollar house for our Eastern Lamborghini's private jets a billion dollar

fraud. >> But how long can this alliance last?

“>> Tell me what you know, is somebody coming after me?”

>> Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Hard Radio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. >> Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring.

The 14th season of Family Secrets. >> He kind of showed me out of the way and said move, and he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off and that was the last time I saw him. >> Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets, on the I-Hard Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

>> Your 20s can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly just kind of lonely may is mental health awareness month. And the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face.

>> It was six years into my career, the 80-hour weeks, and just the first one in the last

one out, and I ended up burning out. >> There was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to like the out of that phase out of my skin, and I just like really regret not living in the present more. >> You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better.

Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I-Hard Radio App, Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts. >> This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Hander, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. >> When like young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever, my first

“thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do rather big?”

>> Because. >> Do that. >> David O'Yellowo.

>> I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction

or you just go straight for the guts. >> Dennis Leary, getting moderato from Stranger Things, Santa Moju, Camilla Marona, Kerry Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the I-Hard Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

>> Rewind with Karen and Georgia, this is a show where we recap our early episodes with new case info and lots of old feelings. >> Today we're rewinding to episode 98, which we named grasp it, why did we do that? I wonder. >> We're about to find out this episode originally was released on December 7th, 2017.

>> All right, let's get into the intro episode 98. Should we do some coffee sets for the ASMR people? >> Okay. >> Oh, wait. Oh, God.

>> Welcome to my favorite murder. >> I really caused the episode.

“>> We're recording it around 4 o'clock in the afternoon, so do you guys of Los Angeles, California?”

>> It's just everything is burning. The world is burning down and right in the center of it, we're here to help you enjoy murder. Karen, the soothing voice of Karen Kilgara, and Georgia Heartstar go over to my left. And of course, the big sipper himself, Stephen Ray Morris, did you do a nice loud one?

>> That was hot. >> Could you hear yourself? >> No, you gotta take the hit for the show. >> Yeah. >> All right, he took another big sip, like I'm making him chug it, like he's joining

a frat. >> Let's pause and chug coffee and then let's get back on and talk. >> And just start screaming and like we can't talk because our mouths are burned. >> Yeah. >> That's a subset of ASMR videos, what burned mouth ASMR video?

>> Do you know what I watched on repeat for like, it wasn't true. >> What were you about to say? >> Oh, I just watched this video. There's this Instagram called like Burnett and they just fuckin' burned things. I think it's like an ASMR for your eyeballs.

Is that a thing? >> Yes, it's called them and they, especially if you're an arsonist, what's it called? Stephen, do you know? >> No. >> It's like what liking things burning down is?

>> Yeah, like watching things burn so the poor acid on like soap and you just watch it. Sometimes you can hear it bubbling or they'll just torch like a fuckin' little toy, plastic,

>> Oh. >> Child's toy.

“But I watched them melting a tube of lipstick over and over so satisfying.”

>> What did they use to melt it? >> Like a fire, like a lighter. >> Wow. >> It was so soothing inside, it's fine. >> I bet.

Did it all, did like the liquid, like the lipstick itself melt and then the plastic melt after one? >> No, I'm just saying, the order of melting to me. They only put it onto the lipstick and the lipstick melted. >> Oh, not the container, right, that was it.

Elvis is joined us. >> Elvis, let's talk about merch. >> I have an update from the Amish murder that I talked about a couple of weeks ago. This email says, "Canterra, just even on all the animals, lost my shit, listening to you tell the little boy blue murder, my friends made a fun of me, so it would be ideal if you could

read this on the podcast, so they feel held up in your fucking face." >> I threw up on a farm, fuck you, so you'll read it. >> Who doesn't? I grew up on a farm around the area where the body was found, but I had to let you know that you missed the uplifting gives you hope in the whole fucked up story ending.

The people of Chester, population 225, raised money to bury the unidentified boy under the name of Matthew, which means gift from God. The memorial service was packed with 400 people, almost double the population of the entire town. People still visit his grave and leave toys and flowers, and they maintain his memorial

even rebuilding it after a tornado. I grew up there about a decade later, and I still heard the story and my parents pointed out the memorial every time we drove by. The town completely adopted the little boy blue, and even now feel so strongly about honoring his memory, just thought you might like to know that even though there are crazy assholes

who murder their wives, roommates, and children, there are also tiny Nebraska towns who open their hearts to show a lot of love, SSDGM, can't wait to catch you in St. Louis in a couple weeks, Kaylee. >> I love it. >> Nebraska?

>> I love it.

I mean, always let us know if there's a uplifting ending we've missed.

>> Please. >> My thought's amazing. And email is right now, and told me about my story this week's uplifting ending, 'cause I couldn't find it. >> Oh, it's a bummer.

>> Yeah. >> I, okay, okay, you were going to tell me about a show that you watched that you really like called "Ware." >> It's a movie. >> Okay.

>> It's a documentary. >> So, it's an author named Gay Tollies, who is was very famous for doing kind of like expose type of, essay, long reads in the '70s. I've never, I've made most of that up based on what I saw briefly in the documentary. I've always heard his name, I've never read him, but anyway, he's clearly brilliant

and has been doing it forever. And he got contacted by a man. I'll just do this the lightest version possible, so there's next spoilers.

“He was contacted by a man who had a 30-year secret.”

And the secret is, 'cause obviously, the name of the movie is Boyer, the man owned a motel

that he set up so that he could go watch people through the vents and the ceilings in every room. >> Oh, my God. >> But he didn't record it on video, he just would go up there, watch them, and then recorded in my new to detail what he saw.

>> Like, into a tape recorder, into a journal, and then he basically gave Gay Tollies these writings. >> Oh, can you imagine how happy he was? >> You have to see it because at first, I'm like, this is so weird and disgusting, this guy is such a pervert, but no one's acting like that at the beginning.

And it's just a fascinating, I just highly recommend. >> I'm going to watch that. >> Do you think you've ever been, like, watched illegally, you know what I mean? Like, Anna hotel room. >> Oh, it's our, yes, I think I would think all the gross things I've done, and I hope

it wasn't then. >> No, that's how I'm going to. >> Well, I think that's the appeal of hotels, you're supposed to, it's like, weird kind

of neutral space where you get to do things you would never do at home.

>> Right. >> And so that's kind of like he, he was already a lawyer, and then he bought the, it's a motel. He bought it with that in mind. >> That's crazy.

>> Because he knew that would be the perfect place. >> Why am I like, well, at least he didn't have a video tape them, it's like, that's not better.

“>> I know, but these days, we're all just trying to go, like, is it the worst thing ever?”

We're trying to, like, come in, hold back a little judgment, but I think that's what this documentary is kind of about. >> Yeah. >> Is the way we all do that in lots of different ways. >> I love it.

>> It's good. >> I highly recommend it. >> I want to recommend this show that I found that I had to watch three times on Amazon. It's a pilot, I don't know if it's, I don't think it's got them picked up yet. It's called C-Oke, and it's so fucking weird and good, it's like a dark comedy.

>> Okay. >> It's Glenn Close. >> Oh, that's just like, boring old woman who lives with her, like, niece and nephew.

>> Okay. >> I want to say that. >> Essentially, and I'm kind of spoiling it, but this is what the problem. >> Okay. Glenn Close.

Jack Quaid, he's like the boy, man, he's like the cutest little thing you've ever seen. >> Who is he? >> He's like a grown man. >> He's like a grown man. >> Is he Dennis Quaid's relative?

>> I don't know.

“>> It's like, is it C-Oke, like the ocean, S-E-A-Oke, it's like, and I think it takes place”

and I like dystopian future kind of, okay, it's really good. >> I want to watch more episodes, I hope they make more. >> Now I really want to watch it. >> Yeah. >> Can I do one more?

>> Yeah. >> Because I didn't talk about godless last week, did I? >> Mm-hm. >> It's a western that's on Netflix, and apparently I tweeted about it, how bad acid is, 'cause it's great, and Merritt Leaver is one of the stars, and she was from

Nurse Jackie, she's one of my very favorite actresses, but yes. >> She's the one who gave that Emmy speech by walking up and going, um, thanks and leaving,

and I was like, I've never loved anyone more, she's the best.

>> Oh, it's good. >> But she's also such a great, great actress. >> Yeah. >> But anyway, it's basically this town and this town, a western town, and I think it's New Mexico, I can't remember. They're just besieged by bad guys, and what happens to the town,

there's a little history before, there's a certain circumstance, is it a western? It's a western. >> Yeah. >> And but Lady Mary from Down and Abbey is in it, Michelle Dockery, this amazing actor, British actor named Jack, somebody who is just like, hot as can be, um, and then Jeff

Daniels plays the bad guy.

“>> Oh, I think things that I started watching this.”

>> It's very slow at first, because it's a western, and it's like they're doing it, just like westerns get done. >> I cannot tell you how much western is bored me, right? >> And I know, like I know, I'm going to get shit for that, but it's like, well, it's your opinion.

>> They're so slow. >> Well, not all of them, and sometimes it, I feel like this new, what it was doing. >> Yeah. >> So it did a thing at the beginning that was so crazy, also Sam, the one from law in order, who I love, yeah, with the, uh, yeah, anyway, there's a beginning that goes, you

just are like, what the fuck is this, and then it goes into really unfolding. But there's an interesting thing someone sent me a link that said, I got bummed out about that show after I read this article, and it was an article that was like, trying to be a takedown saying, people are saying, this is the feminist western we've all been waiting for, and here's how it's not.

But I would just encourage people, because I know sometimes people write those things, and I understand it's kind of trying to say, like, don't label things, the thing that you say it is if it's not going to do A, B, and C, especially if the person who made it, that wasn't their intention. I don't think it was their intention, but I will argue that you see women in the series

doing things, you have never seen them in any modern, or otherwise kind of show before, and

this is the old West. Yeah. So it has more meaning. I don't know. I just thought it was really brilliantly written and acted.

So anyway. Just in case somebody's gotten a hold of a bad article, I would just say, test the waters

“first, for at least a couple episodes, because it's, I think it's really good.”

Okay. Okay. Now all that. Steven just gave me a printed up Instagram, apparently this is what, you kids spend all your time on on this Instagram.

Um, I don't go on there, but it was from Colleen Elizabeth. Colleen's the checker. Her name was Colleen, but she said, "God damn it, Clarissa, explains it all." Ah, it explains everything. She replied, she sent a picture of what she gave me and saying that we talked about

last week. The beautiful Horizon Drawing? Yeah. She, yeah. So she said, "I gave a painting to MFM's Caricle Garif at the Minneapolis Show.

I was too broke to buy good tickets, so my friend and I bought cheap ones, and I left the painting with a girl sitting at the VIP table. I was pretty sure it would never make it to her. The shout out on the pod was more than I ever expected, and the outpouring of support is overwhelming.

My shop is empty." Hello. Thanks to a few murderingos who bought things. New work is coming soon. Thanks, you guys.

I'm humbled by the support. Also, my frames are made by my incredible boyfriend at MN Creative Woodcraft.

He's an amazing woodworker and the best frame maker I've never paid.

And I specifically mentioned the frame because it's the coolest, it's like it's floating inside of frame. I went on her site because we posted it out. You can see the photo on Instagram. Oh, I remember my favorite murder on Instagram.

I went on her site, and I'm like fucking in a buy something when she reposts. There's so, there's so many, and they're so beautiful. Oh, good. I look, when I first put it up, I put it in a weird spot, and then I realized I want to put it in a spot I passed constantly.

It's that, like, soothing to this. It's so nice.

Yay. And thanks, you guys, for supporting her. Yeah, everyone, you murdering, I was fucking good people. Thank you. Yeah.

So, who's going first this week, based on our new algorithm?

How's your, how's your murderer? I don't believe in the new algorithm. Okay. It doesn't work that way. Okay.

I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. I went, well, how about I went first last week? Yeah. I don't do it.

Right? Yes.

“It's one of the tech 29,000 things you have to do.”

You have to do 29,000 things to do and you can't do this one. I definitely went first. Check my notes. My notes are got to go to go. You don't even need to do this.

I don't even need to do this. So, yeah. Yeah, 'cause Karen went last, last time. Yeah.

I went first last last last.

You went last last time. Well, well, we can just say, okay. And we're back. Do you remember those ASMR melting lipstick videos? I did not remember them and tell us episode.

I was like, oh, yeah. I was really into that. Why isn't my algorithm showing me that anymore? Is that just out? It's just not hip anymore.

I think it is, but I think it's bigger on TikTok and I'm on Instagram, maybe. Maybe. Also, I watched an electrolysis video for so long the other night. Yeah. Oh.

God, that's satisfying. I've been fed those. It's like, oh, you like gross stuff? Here's this. Or like, plucking.

Oh, my God. It's so satisfying. But it's not as gross as Dr. Pimple Popper, which is also very satisfying, but sometimes it takes a turn. Totally.

Like, you see, and you can't unsee it. I've also started being fed like lash grooming videos of people who do like lash filler. And now that you just like, they just video it. Super close up, lashes being combed out, lashes being glued.

It's just like this comb, focus, lash thing. Yeah. And it's, it's really fucking satisfying. Oh, and then I completely forgot about the Boyer's Motel that documentary. I know, which is a great documentary, and then also not real.

Totally. So you're taking it. Yeah. What happened?

It was like, they found out that the guy never actually owned it.

Like that he was basically kind of a confabulator. And so part of the story of him doing that at the Motel was also a story. And so he was the only source of it, approval, and he didn't even own it. So the odds that he was kind of just, you know, basically lying for fun. Which is such a hilarious, that should be a new documentary.

That's amazing. People who, yeah, for sure. You're going to go tell an incredibly famous writer, journalist, your story that's fascinating and not ever go, this might be a bad idea. I just met the guy who created the documentary tickled.

Oh, yeah. Is it a very, very barrier? I met him.

“And the new one he's doing is something really interesting to let me try to remember”

it. Pop it up, my head. Is it about the church? No. It's something else now.

Because of tickled, I'm a huge David Verrier fan, and I followed him for years on Twitter. And then one day I pulled up to work here, and he was standing outside the building. And I immediately recognized him, and then I freaked out. And then I had to look up to make sure I was right. And I was.

I got out of the car, and I was getting ready to be like, "Hi, are you waiting to go inside or whatever?" And right as I got out of the car, someone opened the door and brought him inside. And I never met him. I don't know.

He was at your aunt, literally, but he was there for trust me. He was on trust me. So go back to their January episodes and look up David Verrier. He basically had a hand in kind of breaking up this mega church that was really, you have to listen to it.

But he basically kind of started this campaign of like taking down the person that ran this church. And it was mostly on social media, just like asking for people to tell them stories of firsthand accounts of having to get out of the church and stuff. He's an agitator.

He's a real deal. I love it. I did a show with him with, for Joe and I raise new stand-up show, and he is so funny and charming, and like, you know, from New Zealand, so you can say anything you want, and it's charming. And he can say anything you want.

It's, oh, sorry. That's what you're saying. I thought you mean you could be like, Tim, like, hey, go fuck yourself there. If you like, that's wonderful. I love it.

No, I was sooner or less than anything. Yeah, he's nerve-wracking.

“I stand by my godless recommendation because it's Merit Leaver, who is since I think”

won a bunch of Emmys, but then it's also Michelle Dockery and Jack O'Connell, who was the Vampire in Centers. It's like, you got to go see that TV show. I don't know, I don't know. I don't think I ever did.

And like, one of these Emmys and stuff. So yeah. It's a great Western story about women who have to take over a town. Hell yeah. It's real good.

You guys, let's bring it back from 2017. It's vintage now, like, this podcast. So that's right. A vintage godless wreck.

Let's do it. Let's get into Karen's story about Marcel Pituar. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. For ouries and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. On Michelle McFeed, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracy's eye that ever come across.

When Jacob met Lovon, this went to a billion dollar fraud.

But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history.

“You need to tell me what you know is somebody coming after me.”

Jacob told Lovon, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the Ayahart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was.

Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring the 14th season of Family Secrets. Just then we felt the plain turn in the air. So much so that the bags or under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.

Each week, we'd now have headfirst into the complex power of secrecy. How it shapes our identities and relationships. And how it ultimately can reveal to us our trueest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything and me pretending like everything was fine.

He kind of showed me out of the way and said, "Move," and he went, "How the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off," and that was the last time I saw him. It was in the season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. May is mental health awareness month, and your 20s, they can feel like a lot.

On the psychology of your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety, the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis, all of it that comes with being in your 20s, because if you ever thought, "Is anybody else feeling this way?" they definitely are. I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at.

Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost in things that

“we later on decide weren't even important to us to begin when there was a large trunk”

of my 20s that I was just so wanting to be out of that phase out of my skin and I just like really regret not living in the present form. Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it. Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out.

They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests, like Amelia Clarke.

And like young people come up to me and they want to be an actual whatever.

My first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do rather

big? Because for today, do that, Dennis Leary. I wake up and I'm hitting him in the head with a water ball and Bruce Jenner is on the

“aisle in a karate stance like he's about to attack me like they can karate noises.”

And his entire the Kardashians and we over there everybody's going and the air marshes trying to grab my arms and screaming. I immediately know that I've been a sleepwalk. David. Oh, yeah.

Lowell. I love this podcast. Whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Guy Brannum.

So anyway, Nicole Kidman broke up with Keith Urban.

Being half of a country couple was always a hat she was going to wear, not like a life

she was going to leave. Oh, interesting. I like that. Did you practice that on your way home? Gating moderato from Stranger Things.

Say I'm Moju, Camilla Morone, carry Kenny Silver and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, then let me tell you a little something about a man and you may have heard of him. Uh, he was an evil doctor during World War II named Marcel Petois.

Oh, my god. I think that's how you say his name. That sounds beautiful. I've watched a documentary about him.

I still can't remember how to pronounce his name. Petois sounds beautiful. P-E-T-I-O-T. Petois. Petois.

I mean, I took French for two years, so I'm actually pretty much a citizen. Yeah. Okay.

“So Marcel Petois was born January 7th, 1897 at, what is he right?”

What is he? Eighth word, and I'm stopped cold. No, it's OXAIR, I believe, or OZAR, maybe? Okay. A-U-X-E-R-E.

You know what I might do for the rest of this story is replaced French words with American ones. Yeah. It was born January 17th, 1897 at Austin France, a hundred miles south of Paris. His neighbors alleged that he enjoyed torturing animals from an early age, and they say his

first arrest. And a lot of people say that this stuff that came up after his most famous arrest, and that it was just neighbor stalking and making stuff up, but it doesn't seem out of the bounds of any story we've ever told before.

But his first arrest was, after he made sexual advances toward a male classmate, then fired

his father's gun inside a classroom. He was 11. Okay. Whoa. What's shit?

I was like, great. In college? That's fine. If you shoot a gun in college. It's expected.

It's like, man, wilder shit.

“So then between 1907, 1909, when he was between 10 and 12 years old, his parents told”

doctors that he was prone to convulsions and sleepwalking, and he habitually what his trousers and bed. Don't let your trousers. That means head injury probably, right? Head injury, and maybe that he was like a psychopath maybe from, or some serious organic

brain issues. But he can play. It's a classic shit. So classic, let's get a swing in there. Sorry.

So, thank you for belching away from, I just never want to know that she just keeps

it. You keep throwing, like, kind of throwing yourself back onto the couch to belch and then coming back forward and just belching. It's like a little hiccup. Just doing a, no, it was a full, that was a full on belch.

Good. Um, okay. This is a, this is a real ASMR episode in the bad way. Okay. So his mother dies in 1912, his father takes a job 15 miles away.

He has to stay with his aunt, him and his brother go to live with his aunt. And while he's, between, when he's staying with her, he gets expelled from one school. He gets sent back with his dad. He gets expelled from another school from, quote, over excitement and, quote, unruly behavior. So he's, he's out of his mind.

And then he finishes his education in a special academy in Paris in July of 1915. Um, so then when he's a teenager, he gets into the petty crime standard fair. He robbs a mailbox. But in court, he's found not guilty because of mental illness. So he's, a pattern starts to set up pretty early of, he does fucked up shit.

He claims insanity or, or gives them, um, uh, he tells them about stuff and they go, oh, no, he does not have to go to jail. He's crazy.

“And then he gets out of him just keeps on doing stuff, which I think is, it could be a theory”

the psychopath learned early that if you say I had these things, then you never have to kind

of pay for your crimes. Yes. Just do whatever you want. Yeah. So, uh, in 1916, he's drafted into the French infantry to fight in World War I.

Uh, I typed World War I, J. So I don't know if that was a, that was a side project. Uh, you know, remember when World War I started and then it was, it was a, it was a through, uh, before J. Maybe what you're doing is, you try to make an emoji of a smiley face. You know, when someone does that and they don't have an iPhone and it's just a J, maybe

if it's World War smiley face. Oh my god. That's cute. Or it was. World War I is like, can't ever watch like a movie that's like a true-to-life.

World War I. Story where it's like, hmm, it's the horrifying, it's horrifying and horrifying. It's like everything was up close, like, bayonet style, but then some mustard gas and they would go through, it went on and on. I really miss the people.

It's snowing. You don't have fucking boots for snow. No. It's barbed wire. Orange is fun.

And it filled with water and rats. It's like they went to a mud field and we're like, let's settle it here. And then they just kept sending people. The soldiers will come out and they would have to go to rest homes because they would have shell shock and they would just get sent back out over and over and over and over.

It's crazy. Just a nightmare town. So picture it, everyone. Put yourself there. Let's go there.

Now, in a town called AISME, he had been gas.

Now, of course, it would make perfect sense that he would be doing that anyway.

But he also could have been trying to get out of, sure, going there. I would too. And represent he went to what they called them clinics and rest homes. So he got sent to a couple where he was arrested for stealing army blankets. Hmm.

“Where are you going to go with that blanket, Marcel?”

What? Marcel, how many do you even need? I mean, you can't march with them. You're going to get caught by the guy that yells. Okay.

He's jailed for that. And then they put him back onto the front in June of 1918. Like three weeks later, he shoots himself in the foot, literally. Yeah, that's what I would have done. And that's the thing that they used to be that they would people would do that or put

their hand up. There was a movie where the guy puts his hand up and gets his hand shut off. And then he's, what is that cowardice? They, they court martial you for that. Yeah.

Anyway, he does that. He gets diagnosed with amnesia sleepwalking depression and suicidal tendencies. And he ends up getting discharged with a 40% disability pension. Then in September of 1920, his case gets reviewed and they up the rating to 100%. Oh my god.

Maybe very fascinating. I want to, there's so much in this story. It's crazy. I honestly do. I say it all the time, but I really do want to read a book about this one.

Because to figure out or to read about, was it him learning the system gaming it? Yeah. It was a fucking banana. Yeah. And did the bananas build into what his crimes that came later?

The bananas, the bananas build into a whole banana tree. Okay. Well, the person that reviewed that and said he should have a 100% disability also suggested that he be committed to an asylum. But he had already entered a mental hospital, not as a patient.

He had gone through an accelerated education program for war veterans. And he'd gone to, in eight months, he finished medical school. And he was serving a two-year psychiatric internship. See, he's putting it on. He's right.

No whole thing on me. He knows. I couldn't do that. Well, because he's a, I mean, he's from what they say he was a super genius. That's part, that's part.

He's like a normal super villain. Me too. I'm sure. So anyway, he, so now he's, like, the, it's like the patients are running me aside. Anyway.

So fascinating.

I wish I could just see, like, all I want is like a 10 second video clip of him.

I know it doesn't exist in it's impossible, but within heavy cool.

“Well, tell you this, if you want to think about him, I'll tell you the story.”

He has kind of crazy Ron Lynch hair. That doesn't help many people who are listening. Sorry. Well, you know what? He has kind of Steven here.

Steven here. He's got, he's got hair that it looks like he throws it back and forth in every direction across his head all the time. Because it's like, fluffy. Yeah.

And well, there's love body. And some curl. Mm-hmm. And he also has a mustache. Steven, are you a time traveler?

Here's the difference, though, and we're going to keep on on you, Steven. One of his eyes is way bigger than the other. So there's a picture of him that kept coming up when he, I was trying to find like videos on YouTube. And it, it looks like a cartoon of a surprised person, but that's what his face looked

like. Surprise. I'm a psychopath. Surprise. My eyes look crazy.

Um, he, yeah. He guesses degree on December 15, 1921, from a faculty, mid-Slandle belly? That was great. Thank you. I got super scared in the middle.

And then he becomes a full-on doctor. What the fuck? This is full-fledged on the paper, because I got in the face today. Um, so then he starts a practice in villain duweb, sir, I mean, um, and he's getting paid not by his patients who come to see him.

And then he's also still getting a government assistance, um, and he's on tons of drugs. So he's one of those doctors. It's like, you know, pop and pills the whole time. They're all on drugs, right? I need like, where did you be?

Yeah.

“Because also, you have to know how drugs work.”

You have to take them a little bit. Yeah. You have to kind of educate yourself. Right. But then also, you just have them around.

Yeah. Freebies. It's like he with those fucking peanut M&M. I can't keep my hand out of that thing. Oh, God.

Oh, you. Okay.

So they believe his first victim is a woman named Louie's, um, Dilevo.

And she is the daughter of one of his elderly patients. He starts having to fair with her in 1926. And soon after that affair starts, um, the, their home is burglarized and set on fire. Oh, um, and they, they suspect him, Michelle Petua, um, and then Louie's disappears

Oh, woman. He's having a fair with disappears. That's right. Okay. So it's like they're dating.

It's all going off.

“She's like, he might be the one, she, she was elderly.”

Her relative was elderly who went, it's almost like the young girl brought the blood to grandma to the doctor and then he's like, well, hello. Hello to you, young lady. Hello to you. Um, okay.

So the neighbors say that they saw Petua, Louie, a big trunk into his car and then weeks later one is fished out of a river that looks very similar to the one that they saw him loading into his car and when they fished out of the river, it's filled with dismembered

decomposed remains of a young woman who's never identified.

Because the police, um, after learning all of the, you know, that cell hole set up, decide that she's a runaway. So no. Yeah. You know, those fucking 1920s, friend Tronowitz, they throw on their brain.

They're fucking out of there. I get the fuck out of there. You can kind of get a baguette anywhere, so you could be on the road for as long as you want. Sure.

Back in the day. Later days or a warm other fucker. That's right. Bring that red lipstick girl to throw in your pocket and smoke. Okay.

This same year, now it's going to seem like I'm changing the subject to a different podcast. He runs for mayor. What? That thing where you're like, yeah, you oops, I, I was doing another paper on something else and I combined the two.

“Yeah, I'm like, what Wikipedia article is this that I'm cutting and pasting now?”

No, he's, guys, all over the place.

He's, he's got a ton of energy. He's got wild eyes. Because he has all the men's he needs. Everybody's just taking coke pills for real. And I have a coke pill, please.

I mean, here's the, here's the downside. We are actually talking about this the other night because some, I was telling somebody one of my speed in the '90s, resulting in seizure stories and I was like, everybody thinks, you do this, you go through this thing and you're like 20s and 30s where you're like, I can just kind of do whatever.

And then it's like your late 30s and early 40s is when you find out, you absolutely can. There's going to be a bottom dropping out of this kind of casual, aterald phase that everyone goes through, which God bless, no judgment. But like, you can't do it forever and you've got to make a plan for when you stop because

it's bad for you, you're like your heart valves and shit. Oh, no. Be careful. Okay. As for someone who's on fucking permanent seizure medication, let me just tell you from

the other side of that, it's not pretty and it hasn't happened yet. It's going to be like the new like Mesothelium ads that are on TV.

“Do you think I'm going to be like fucks in anyway?”

How much do you take? Have you ever had a heart attack? Not yet. I do right now. Well, let's just keep our eye on that.

I mean, listen, everybody's doing what they need to do. You know what I mean? These days, especially. So, okay. So, he's out leading the people.

All right. The mayor thing. Yeah. I mean, we have to get back into the story that doesn't make any sense with what I have been telling you about.

Okay. Can you lay low? No, he can. He's a psychopath. He's like, he's, he's got it.

He's got the world on a string. Oh, my God. So, he hires an accomplice. The reason he won is because he hired an accomplice to disrupt a political debate with his opponent.

So, he wins, like, he basically fucked with his opponent and then won.

Mm-hmm. Then he wants his own office in bezels from the town. He's still living his life. He's just, you know what it is? I feel like.

And this says remind me of the heartbeat. It's that thing of when you're in the moment, you're like, fuck it, yes, or fuck it. Like, you just decide to grasp it while you can. Yeah. And I do all of crazy.

Do it all. Just pretend like nothing's going to happen in an hour or a day. Just go for it. Okay. Okay.

In 1927, he marries a woman named Georgeette, La Blah. Oh, blah. It's all the keys. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they have a son named Gerhard, sorry.

Okay. Local authorities receive numerous complaints about his theft and shady financial dealings, as he's the mayor. And he's eventually suspended in August of 1931 and he and resigns. A village council also resigned in sympathy. I don't know what a village council is.

But it sounded like he had manipulated people in the town so much and gotten them convinced that like, no, he's the best that when they were like, you can't be the mayor anymore. They were like, we are going to. Oh my god. Yeah.

Five weeks later on, on October 18, he's elected as a counselor for the young district, why oh, why oh, and any, it's like Iván with Novy, unless something happened. Unless there wasn't, maybe there wasn't as Iván, maybe the V dropped off the page when

Iván France.

And she wears so much perfume.

In 1932, he's accused of stealing electric power from the village near, that's point. That's point. He's like, look in some shit up. Yeah. He's like, but it's just for my RV.

Um, but he'd moved it one by the time they figured that out, they were like, you're off the council and he'd already moved Paris, so it didn't matter. And while he's there, he sets up a new practice and he makes up all these credentials and all these people are like, oh my god, we heard of this guy. He's the new doctor now.

Yeah. You can't Google it. We're exactly right. I linked in him. It's all word of mouth.

He probably got the one influential person made him love him. Um, gave him a Coke pills. That's right. But while outwardly charming and popular with most of his patients, he secretly enrolled them for state medical assistance, thereby ensuring that he was paid twice for each treatment.

So he's like a Medicare scammer, okay, from jump, the original. And he favored addictive narcotics in his prescriptions. So he was just giving people vote up shit. Yeah. One one pharmacist complained of the near fatal dose that he prescribed for a child.

“His reply was, what difference does it make to you?”

Because I don't want children to be dead. Isn't it better to do away with this kid who's not doing anything in the world, but pestering its mother? Oh, my gosh. So not a lot of compassion.

I mean, it doesn't feel like that's his angle or filter on life. Uh, he's this kid who's not doing anything. He just kind of sick. He just needs a little bit of help from a doctor. And he's fit.

I mean, what do kids do? I mean, I guess back then, they worked in the coal mines. They were like, oh, I'd love some speed. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. But the mother has to intervene, okay. And then in 1936, he's appointed the medica de tassevin with authority. So he can now write death certificates. They just keep going.

What? You're really fucked up. Here's a little bit more responsibility. Can you take over this project? We just want to help you.

Kill people. Yeah. Yeah.

“That same year, he's institutionalized for club dominia.”

What? Uh-huh. Um, so after the, so then World War II breaks out. Okay. And he means World War II.

Okay. Work. Check. Okay. Work.

Work. One. Okay. Roman numerals. We're gonna determine the world.

Yeah. So France falls. And uh, he's start, of course, now he's just taking advantage. He's doing, he's giving people weird fake certificates saying people are sick when they're knocked to get out of shit.

He's like basically running kind of a black market.

He's situation. And he's convicted in 1942 of over prescribing narcotics. Um, but what he's going to go to court and there's two addicts that we're going to testify against him. The cops got them to flip on him.

They disappear. So uh, he, he ended up just being fine. How about they're in the addict? 24. They're in the addicts, addicts.

Yes. Mm-hmm. So he's fine. 2400 francs. And they're just like, "Great.

Please don't do it anymore." Oops. This guy's disappeared. So, yeah. Yeah.

“He brags to anyone who listen that he's developing secret weapons that can kill Germans”

without leaving forensic evidence, that he's having high level meetings with allied commanders, that he's fighting for this resistance group and that resistance group all over town. Um, he's talking, telling stories about that he's planting booby traps around Paris. All this shit.

Booby traps. Uh, he even says that he works with a group of anti-fascists, Spaniards, turns out that group never existed. Oh my god. Um, nor did many of the things that he talked about, um, but the thing that he stumbled

upon that made him the most money and started off the reason he eventually became famous is he started his own false escape route out of, uh, occupied France, explained that to me. Called fight fly talk.

So, basically, the Germans invade Paris and they take over and then they start saying,

"You, you Jews can only live in this area and you can only go to the, "Oh, get on the train." So, of course, everyone's trying to get out of France and he's like, "I can get you out. All you need is 25,000 francs."

Come to my house. He's one of those. So, let's do this thing. Yeah. So, uh, his codename is Dr. Eugene.

I don't know, I think he made that out. Oh, that's not really cunning. It's not cool sounding. Um, so Ella took was, if you had the money and, uh, he's, and he, uh, basically, said he could arrange safe passage to Argentina or somewhere else in South America through Portugal.

So he got people to come to his office or his apartment and he told them that the Argentinian

No. And then he, he gave them a shot that was cyanide, killed them, took all of their belongings and their money and disposed of their bodies and they were, and all the people that heard

about him and went to him and secret to get out of France or never seen again.

Oh, no. Um, so at first he dumped the bodies in the sun, uh, but he later destroyed them by a submerging them in quick line or burning them in this basement. So, um, and 1941, he buys a house at 21 rule, lesser, and what he fails to do is, again, keep a low profile.

So the Gestapo finds out that there's this dude, Dr. Eugene, that's getting Jews and resistance fighters and all these people who ever asked $25,000 out of France. Oh, Franks. Um, so they send, like a spy named Robert Judkin, um, or sorry, an agent, a Gestapo agent named

“Robert Judkin makes, uh, for a prisoner named Ivonne Dreyfus says, you have to go be a spy.”

Go contact this guy. Say you're trying to get out of Germany, um, he disappears. Oh, no. So then now the Nazis are, are on to him, um, so then, uh, uh, okay. So on March 6, 1944, this is just a good, good, good part, because this is fucking crazy.

And this is where I stumbled upon a documentary about this.

And this is where the documentary starts and it was amazing.

I watched, like, a third of it. It was incredible. I thought I hit record. I had to go leave to do something else, came back, didn't record it, can't find it, can't find it on you.

I can't find it anywhere. Yeah. But it started here in the way they told it was so good that I was like, this is the best story.

“So March 6, 1944, they're smoke coming from the chimney, chum, the chimney of that house.”

And then it smells so bad, and it's burning and burning and burning. So the neighbors complain, and five days later, they, an group go to the police and they're just like, someone's got to do something about the smell coming out of the house and the smoke coming out of the house. Um, uh, so when they all go down to the front door on March 11th, they find a note on

the door that says, um, I'll be back in a month. Uh, so, um, they find out that he also lives in that other house. Well, he has two houses, um, so the police call that house. It's two miles away. They call that house, um, and the Petra answers the phone and says, have you gone inside

yet? And the police are like, no. And he goes, okay, don't do anything, I'll be there in 15 minutes.

And they're like, okay, and then he never shows up.

So half an hour later, it's now fully engulfed fire, and they have to call the fire department so that the other buildings nearby don't burn down.

“And when the fire department breaks into the second story window, they come upon a scene”

that's just bodies and body parts everywhere they look. Yeah. Um, so then Petra arrives and he, when the police are like, what the fuck is going on in your house, he's like, I'm a member of the front resistance. And I've been lowering Germans and Nazis to that apartment and killing them.

And of course, everyone, all the French people were like, great. This is perfect. This guy is. Yeah. Don't worry about this.

Yeah. And so they didn't arrest him because everyone was like, well, he's part of the resistance. Let's keep it up. Yeah. And, or talk about it.

But then they search the garage and that's when they find a pit filled with quick lime with human remains still in it. Um, then on the staircase, there's a canvas sack with human remains inside and enough body parts for at least 10 complete bodies. And then the basement is had sinks that were large enough for draining corpses of their

blood. And there's a soundproof, a taginal chamber with wall-mounted shackles and a people in the center of the door. Oh my God. That's great.

Yeah. So they're not, this isn't just like trick as spy into coming to your basement and kill them. There's something else going on there. And so, but they don't know if he, it truly is a member of the resistance or if he's

a German, um, like being like a double agent or whatever. And so, as the veteran Paris police commissioner, George Victor Mapsu, I'm going to stop doing that. I'm sorry. As he runs the investigation, um, and while he's, they're investigating this crime scene,

it's 130 in the morning, they get a telegram from police, Paris police headquarters from the Germans that the occupying, I mean, that I, they keep saying Germans in this murder pediathe. There's like, you know, seven articles on murder pediathe.

I don't. Mm-hmm. Right. I would think so.

“Let me know when I'm wrong, um, America.”

So they get a, they get a telegram from the Nazis saying, uh, quote, order from German authorities arrest Pizwa, dangerous lunatic, so then they're like, okay, he's not a German. Yeah. So, in his other apartment, they find it abandoned, but they find large amounts of chloroform, digitalis, and other poisons, in addition to large amounts of, um, and usual medical

remedies, um, so, uh, they find a man, um, who had gone to him to Pizwa to escape, but I ended up changing his mind, and he said Pizwa had offered him passage to South America for $25,000. So, uh, then while they're going through that basement with all the body parts, they find the remains of the two drug addicts that were going to testify against him in that narcotics case.

And now they know there's, it's the proof that those witnesses were murdered, and that this guy was not, uh, being a noble Frenchman that was trying to defy their assistance. Uh, then they get his brother Maurice and Maurice immediately cracks and is like, yep, excuse, we delivered quick climb to this apartment, um, we also, uh, his wife, Georgette was arrested, um, on suspicion of aiding him, and his accomplices, Nezodet, Porchan, and

Albert and Simon, Newhausen, confess that they help remove up to 40 suitcases from the house.

“Um, who why does anyone need 40 suitcases is like they should have asked?”

If you have 50 bodies, you're going to need at least 40 suitcases. Um, so, then the investigation comes to a halt because the invasion of Normandy happens. So everyone's like, sorry about this insane, like, multiple murder we've got to go. So for seven months, Ptoah hides with his friends, he grows a beard, changes his appearance. He has all these different aliases.

He has friends, well, I mean, but he told the friends that he was fighting for the front process. I believe it. Yeah, so they were like, yeah, hide him here and, you know, it was that, that whole story. The Paris police rose up against, and, and the, and the citizens, um, and the resistant

rose up against the German troops in Paris, the Nazis, occupying France. Um, that's when Ptoah changes his name to already, uh, Dalai, and he joins the French forces of the interior, becomes a captain in charge of counter espionage, and prisoner interrogations,

and basically is in the mix with the resistance for real, um, yeah.

So then somewhere in that time, uh, his defense lawyer for that narcotics trial that he got off on, um, gets a, uh, that lawyer gets a letter from Ptoah saying that there was an article in a newspaper called Resistance that was all about Ptoah, and what he did, and he, so he took the time to send his lawyer, his old lawyer, a letter saying, look, that article is all lies.

So now the police know he's still in France. Yeah. So, um, there's a man hunt across France, France to find him, or across Paris, I should say. But he ends up participating in the man hunt for himself.

He's fucking kidding. As Henri Valery, oh my god, which is fucking rad. Yeah. Okay.

So he's, he's recognized finally at the Paris Metro Station on October 31st, and he's arrested.

Um, among his possessions were a pistol, uh, he had over 30,000 francs on him, and 50 sets of identity documents, um, which were about a lot of them probably victims of it. Okay, so he says to the, uh, there's like those families at LA, so they're just stacking them up.

“Like, where are you going, and what are you fucking bringing?”

You're a bad packer. You can buy anything anywhere. There's a CVS on the remotest island. Yeah. What are you doing?

Yeah. Yes. Uh, okay. He's put on death row. He says he's innocent, and he's a great fighter for the Resistance, and he also says that

he found the pile of bodies at that apartment in February of 1944. He assumed that they were all collaborators, um, uh, that the members of his network had killed. So he was just like, well, they're just leaving there at that. Yeah.

That's, only right. That's not my problem. Well, the police look into all his stories about his time with the Resistance, and all the freedom fighting that he did, found out he had no friends in any of the major resistance groups, um, there was no proof of any of the exploits that he claimed, like

Bluebie trapping all of Ferris and, um, most of the groups that he named never existed

So the anti-fascist Spaniards that he was talking about all made up.

“Um, so they eventually charge him with 27 murders for profit.”

And he, he basically took these people for an estimated 200 million.

Holy shit. So he goes on trial, March 19th, 1946, he's facing 135 criminal charges all together. Um, and his lawyer, when they, little while, I'm trying to bug myself is up against a prosecution team that's, the state prosecutors, plus 12 civil lawyers all hired by the

relatives of the victims that are just like, go fucking get him, um, and he, he basically tried to say in court that the victims were collaborators or double agents like they deserve to die, um, and, or that they were living in South America under new names, and that they're all fools, whatever, um, he did admit to killing 19 of the 27 victims in his house, but he claimed they were Germans and collaborators.

His lawyer attempted to make him look like a resistance hero, but nobody, the judge, the

jury, nobody bought it. He's, uh, so he ended up being convicted of 26 counts of murders, sentenced to death. And, um, on May 25th, uh, after a stay of a few days, because there was a problem with the mechanism in the guillotine he was beheaded. Oh my god.

“That's our guy, March so, that's what I want to see if I don't know, well, that was”

great. Thank you. How come. Okay, we're back, Karen, any updates? We don't have any updates, but we did get a really interesting email in 2019, the subject

line of the email was episode 98 info about Marcel Pituah, German versus Nazi, and thank you. Okay. And it says, Karen, Georgia, and livestock, this is this is a little bit long, but it's kind of worth it.

It says, I'm writing about episode 98 in which Karen covered French doctor and serial killer Marcel Pituah.

“In preparing for a family trip to Paris in 2017, I became an avid researcher of the best”

places to visit for a history and architecture lover like myself. I came across a book in my local library called Death in the City of Light, the serial killer of Nazi occupied Paris, what a dark twisted tale and man. The book provided location maps in Paris, including the house that neighbors were reported burning, which led to Pituah being found out and arrested.

The book also covers his meetings with specific victims and how he manipulated them to come to his home in the first place. It also covers the trial of Pituah, which was one of the most frustrating reads I've ever had to get through. He was absolutely nuts and tried to dominate the courtroom throughout, though through

his own words and statements, one sees what a controller and a lunatic he actually was. In its day, the trial was very much like paparazzi frenzy trials of notorious or famous people for today. It was a gochers paradise and he was at the center of all of it enjoying

the limelight. Karen mentioned a documentary about the case, but that she had never been

able to find it, so I wanted to share the book title for anyone who wants to know more. And as an aside, there was a question raised in this episode about whether it was correct to say France was occupied by Germany or Nazis. The German state was Nazi led during World War II, it would be correct to say German occupied as Germany was led and represented by the Nazi party, which carried out the horrific Nazi agenda we all know today.

Sad for the German people, but theirs is a huge cautionary tale for the world about extremism, gallibility, and nationalism that we shouldn't water down. Wow. And then they say this is not a correction of what Karen said just in a reminder that the people of a country no matter if they agree with the controlling party in their government or not share the responsibility for what their leaders do. We are experiencing that in this country right

now. This is from 2019. That's crazy. We're experiencing that in this country right now with the immigrant camps being set up to house women and children trying to come to America. These are American immigrant camps and it's such we are all responsible for what is happening in those places in our name at the hands of our current leaders. No less was true for the German state during World War II. Thank you guys for doing your thing. Really enjoyed it. Wow.

I get less from 2019. I mean, what a nightmare. You know, there's now a children's detention center in Texas, just for immigrant children by themselves. A nightmare idea. And there's been a bunch of people that have like dedicated, you know, their time and their voices to like trying to get it shut down. But it's like this, this government that we are living under, people, this is what fascism is. It's such a good point of like, yeah, you know, I would have been like

volts Nazi occupied, but yeah, it's German occupied and this is why you have to vote is because

This is like everybody has to let go of those old Chevy commercials that used to make us feel so good in the summertime because this is not baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet anymore. This shit is ugly and it's bad and it's getting worse by the day. It's evil. It's evil.

“It's so bad. Well, that's what the podcast is for. That's all you're for. That's what the rewind is”

here for because we've been since this fucking podcast started, we've been talking about this. It's crazy. Yeah. But all right. It's time to get into George's story right now. It's true crime. What choice? Where do you want to look right now? You click play on a podcast called my favorite murder. So yeah, you're in it. You're in it for the long haul. This is George a story about the murder of Peggy Hadrick. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen Kingdom on Earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman had a pulse Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. For Ari's Lamborghini's right at Jets meeting the president of Turkey on Michal McFee and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracy's eye that ever come across.

When Jacob met Levant, this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from

entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation

“in American history. You need to tell me what you know is somebody coming after me.”

Jacob told Levant, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of fraud on the Ayahat Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring the 14th season of Family Secrets. Just then we felt the plain turn in the air.

So much so that the bags are under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we don't have headfirst into the complex power of secrecy. How it shapes our identities

and relationships and how it ultimately can reveal to us our trueest selves. My daughter,

she's pretending she doesn't know but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of showed me out of the way and said move and he went help the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the Ayahat Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. May is mental health awareness month

and your 20s, they can feel like a lot. On the psychology of your 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety, the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis, all that that comes with being in your 20s because if you've ever thought is anybody else feeling this way, they definitely are. I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at. Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost in

“things that we later on decide more even important to us to begin when there was a large chunk”

of my 20s that I like was just so wanting to like be out of that phase out of my skin and I just like really regret not living in the present form. Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it. Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I-Hot Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast.

This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clarke. When like young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever. My first

thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do rather big because it's going to

do that. Dennis Leary. I wake up and I'm hitting him in the head with a water ball and Bruce Jenner is on the aisle in a karate stance like he's about to attack me like making karate noises. And his entire the Kardashians and we over there everybody's going, and the air morse is trying to grab my arms and scream. I immediately know that I've been a sleepwalk. David, oh yeah, hello. I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction

or you just go straight for the guts. Guy Brannam. So anyway, Nicole Kidman broke up with Keith Urban. Being half of a country couple was always a hat she was going to wear, not like a life

Gate and Moderato from Stranger Things. Sanam Moju. Camilla Morone. I carry Kenny Silver

and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Over back from a little break and when I was paying, I looked it up in the Instagram with the melting. Melbsick is called Watch It Melt. Sweet. So check it out. It's like the whole account. Yes. Yeah, it's pretty great. Okay. So we talked about this recently.

“This is the story of the murder of Peggy Hedrick. Remember her? Let's you will. Okay.”

On the morning of February 11, 1987, a bicyclist is investigating what he thinks is a mannequin

laying in the field in Fort Collins, Colorado. What it actually is is the body of 37-year-old Peggy

Hedrick. And she's dead. Her purse is still slung around her shoulder. Belongings are inside. There's a half smoke cigarette in a pool of blood nearby. There's a trail of blood 100 feet from her body that went to the small pool on the curb. Her bra blouse and black coat had it pushed up above her breasts and her underwear and jeans are pulled down to her knees. I remember. You know this conversation. Yes. Yes. Wow. Okay. Yeah. At the scene, investigators collect two hairs. They're not her hair.

And 13 fingerprints from her purse that aren't hers. And they, they also, okay. So they theorized

that Peggy's killer. They think that they stabbed her as she was walking along the road,

right by where next to the field, you know? Right. Because she had been killed with one stab wound

“and then picked her up and perhaps by the wrists and dragged her into the field. That's what they”

think happened. They also, there was also 28 footprints going around and they port, they took photos of all of them but they only plastered eight of them. So according to the corner, she died from a single stab wound and the upper left back. Isn't that crazy like one stab wound? And she like died pretty quickly from it. Yeah. It's almost like he knew where to stab you, someone to kill them. She likely died early in the morning. Her body had been sexually mutilated. Here we go.

There's a precise removal of her nipple in aerial as well as a female circumcision, including what one doctor described as a partial vulvectomy. Oh, no. Yeah. A procedure that requires high skill and quality surgical equipment to perform. So the, the knife she was stabbed with is not the same tool that was used. She's sexually mutilated. He's just crying. I know. God, I feel like I'm

“numb to this shit now. A little bit. Well, it seems to happen a lot. Yeah. I mean, it's not, I think that's”

part of it. It happens all the time. People pretend like it's some kind of distant, creepy, crazy thing and it's like, no, pretty much happens all the time. All the time. Yeah. It's horrifying. Yeah. So there's a neat cut. It's all like that, blah, blah. Okay. So let's talk about Peggy. She's a small woman about 115 pounds, flaming red hair, really pretty woman. She works at a department store and just described by friends as fun loving artistic. She was kind of an amy hall type and she was working on

her novel in her free time about a diamond smuggler. So it's fiction sounds fucking fun. I wish I could read that. So after leaving work at around 9 p.m. the night before, February 10th, 1997, she is locked out of her apartment because her friend who she is letting stay there, fell a fuck asleep and she couldn't wake her up. And so she goes to a couple of local bars. And she, by about 1230, she's at the prime minister, Pove and Grill. And she runs into her

sometimes boyfriend Matt Zoner. He's a local car salesman. He's there with another woman. But they hugging kiss and talk. He offers her a ride home. But she ends up leaving by herself at 115 in the morning. So six hours and less than 500 yards later her body is found. Wow. So so then the investigators are canvassing the area. There's some houses nearby. There's some trailers that are talking to people seeing if they saw anything, especially the people who's

windows face the field. And they, uh, they talk to the father of a 15 year old high school student named Timothy Masters. Because he, and the father says that he watched his son leave for school that morning and deviate from his usual path across the field and stop at something and then keep walking to his normal, uh, his normal route. So they live in a mobile home about a hundred feet from

Roderick, he's running the show. He's like in charge of the investigation. They interrogate

15 year old Timmy for 10 hours. He's alone. He said that the reason he didn't call the police. He had seen the body that morning. But he thought it was, um, a mannequin. He thought and then later he was like, oh, that was weird. There's something wrong with someone playing a prank on me. Like he didn't get it. Yeah. You know, it was just 15. 15. And it's like, that's the thing of like, your brain doesn't want it to be a mannequin. So like, or to be a body. So, but throughout the day,

it feels, it seems like he was kind of figuring out what was going on in his mind. And if you came upon a dead body of a mutilated woman, not just a stopped woman, but like a terribly mutilated woman,

“I think that would put you into a kind of trauma state. Yeah, shock mode. Yeah. Where you would,”

and also this wasn't the time of cell phones. This was a while ago. Yeah. So he would have to keep

walking to school, tell anybody. Yeah. And then maybe by the time he got there, he was like, couldn't deal with like if he didn't talk about it. And I saw a photo of the crime scene. She kind of does look like a mannequin. Like she's so pale, her red hair, you know, it's just like, and the guy, the, you know, the adult who ended up calling the police, the bicyclist, thought it was a mannequin, too. And he's an adult. So, you know, it's not out of the amount of possibility. But,

da, da, da, da, da, da. He says he's innocent as fuck. He there administer a lie detector test, results are inconclusive, of course. But he is on the top of the suspect list, because he, just because he didn't tell police about the body. Right. So they search his home.

“They search the sinks for blood. They search the school locker. They search the clothes,”

clothes, the super blood or anything. And it said they find and confiscate 2,200 pages of writing and violent artwork that Timothy had in his bedroom that he saved. He was kind of like a meticulous saver and saved all of his journals in shit. And they, let's see, in his bedroom back back in school locker, and he has a knife collection and pornography. And this is the 80s. And that's not okay. Yeah. So, there's no trace of Peggy's bladder hair at all, anywhere, including on his

clothes and the knife collection. But police are like convinced it's him. And these drawings, I'm sure you've seen them. They're like this 10 year old metal head in 1987 boy drawings. And they're fucked up for sure. Yes. They're definitely fucked up. Yes. I've seen like there's a some kind of a 2020 type of thing. Yeah. So you all of them. And but it's also that thing where so is like metal art is fucked up. It's like any from the Iron Maiden album covers is one of

“the scary. I remember seeing that album cover for the first time at the record store and sheading a”

brick. It was like, it's a skeleton with long white hair. It's like in long fingernails coming at you. It was part of that part of it. Yes, you're supposed to be like, it's fucked up and scary and, you know, I'm brave. And he's just like, you know, he's like this kind of loner, skinny kid, like long messy hair. Not all of friends. His mom had died four years earlier. I live in a trailer with his dad. So he sounded like he was kind of a drifter type of kid. Probably got bullied

and beaten, had getting the shit beaten out of her constantly. Right. Uh, so this should he was drawing, you know, skeletons with knives and like, and a lot of like shit against women too. Like it's not pretty. Right. For sure. Yeah. Um, it would just be interesting if they like researched all the lockers and pulled up. All right. It's all the boy art. Right. Finding it's not there's not a draw me like when you're a French lady situation happening in high school. Yeah. When you're

here most like fucked up and unhappy and uncomfortable. Totally. Yeah. So, okay. So Queen's of Peggy is said that she, uh, that Peggy had recently been concerned over someone she had been dating. They ruled out her ex, her sometimes boyfriend that she had seen the night before because, uh, women said that, you know, she had gone home with him. Um, but this dude, Roderick, Jim Roderick, the fucking late time at is laser focused on he is like convinced even though there's a lot of other

investigators that are like, we don't, they don't think it's him. But he is like, doesn't really look in that other, anyone else. Um, so Timothy Masters, they, but they don't have enough to arrest him. So he grows up. He joins the Navy, sails around the world, becomes an aircraft mechanic.

He never has any discipline or problems or violent offenses. He's honorably discharged from the Navy.

Okay. Then the fast word to 1986. Um, this detective Jim Roderick asks a forensic psychologist in

Yeah. And, uh, he'd kind of had a, a weird reputation this guy read, uh, Miloay. He is an expert witness on sexual homicides. He thinks that you can read a person's personality into this artwork, which is kind of debated in the field. Um, and he even disclosed that he was himself had sexually

sadistic fantasies. Uh-oh. So this guy's problematic. Hold on a second. Yeah, that's not, that's not good.

No. Well, but, but maybe he was saying that like, it's human that that kind of goes against what his thing is because like, well, basically are used the argument that everybody has them or like, it's self-expression because then you can't like focus in and be like this. That's, like he wouldn't understand it unless you had it, too. Yes. Yeah. But also, it's art, art, self-expression is, you know,

“that's what art is for. Right. And you really need to do it. Especially when you don't think”

anyone else is going to see it. Yes, it's private and you're like, you're trying to work some shit out. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway. Fuck man. No, it's fucked up. Okay. So the student

read Maloe analyzes the writing and artwork extensively and concludes without ever having spoken to him

to Timothy Masters says that he, um, that some of the drawings represented Masters reliving the crime. So he was like, see this drawing. It looks kind of like they're dragging a body. That's him reliving the crime. Um, and then there's this one. There's like, if this weird triangle with a stab wound in it and it looks, it looks like a stab wound for sure, but the this dude is like, oh, it's a vagina and he's cutting into it and it matches perfectly with the actual

“crime of Peggy's vagina getting mutilated. So they think that he went to school, then went home”

and immediately started scribbling and tons and tons of notebooks. No, they think some of the drawings from, or from after the murder before they got the notebooks, but most of them were before, but these ones like the fantasy. Right. Okay. Right. So the triangle one was from before, but this other one was from after, it doesn't make sense. Okay. And it's funny too because I watched the, I watched the cold case episode about this and it's before. Uh, so, so this dude is like, it's totally him. He's

the killer. Um, and in August 1980, a base on this, Jim Braddock goes to California and arrest 27-year-old Jim Masters for the murder of Peggy Hedrick based solely on this evidence and circumstantial evidence. And 12 years later? Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. Over a thousand pages of Timothy Masters, violent artwork are admitted to evidence, including the vagina drawing. And so at the end of the trial, they held up like a close-up photo of Peggy's wounds on her vagina next to a

blown up photo of this triangle drawing and said it's chilling, they're the same thing. And even

“the, like, it's just so creepy and then they also show, it's the thing of like, I think in some cases,”

I mean, I've heard about you can't show that many horrifying photos of the body at the trial because it brings an emotional response to the jury. So instead of, you know, thinking about the facts or they're seeing these photos and, you know, so they had like photo after photo of what happened or at the trial. Right. So then they're just like, they, it doesn't matter if it's him or not, they just want this right. They want to get this, like, solved and out of their writing.

Or it's almost like, and I think this happened to her. It was like, some people think or it was like, they weren't sure he did it, but they saw this stuff over and over again and they were like, well, what if it is? And we, we know what happened. We can't let them go. Right. So, so the, those some jurors had doubts about his guilt, his drawings and writings were cited by the jury members as compelling evidence against him. And he is, he's found guilty and sentenced to life in

prison. Okay, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In 2004, that's 2004, that's 99, 2004. Timothy Amaster's Mounts in appeal on the grounds of ineffective counsel and that he gets a new defense team, they begin a best to be in case and they discover that evidence, including the hair that was found on hetric that wasn't his, that wasn't Timothy's hair. And photographs of the fingerprints

found in her purse were all missing. And they had never been turned over to the defense. Or no,

they're missing now. Yes. So, during the 2000, and blah, blah, blah, blah. So, they, they alleged the prosecutors withheld evidence about links to another case that happened in the Fort Collins area about Dr. Richard Hammond, who was at potentially a suspect. Let's fucking talk about Dr. Richard

Dr. Richard Hammond is an eye surgeon in the Fort Collins area. He's arrested for secretly filming

women's genitalia. I copied him pasted that, obviously, including his patients and in his own home through fake ventilation grates in his downstairs bathroom. So, he put a fucking video in the toilet and they said video after video, there were these highly calibrated shots zooming into the vaginal area of women in his toilet. They were extreme close-ups and they were almost microscopic. And investigators also found that Hammond kept thousands of dollars worth of pornography hidden

in a locked office and a storage shut in town indicating an obsession with female genitalia.

“He also had a secret bank account, secret apartment, and a secret identity. And as a surgeon,”

he, of course, had the skills and equipment to perform the precision mutilation that was found

on her body. So, it could have been an exacto knife or a razor blade. And in 1987, Hammond's bedroom window overlooked the location of where Peggy had her body was discovered. And he was home the morning after the murder, despite his usually scheduled surgeries on that day of the week. So, that was how the character ran. Then, but no follow-up investigation was ever done after that after that because he committed suicide several days after his arrest and Jim Broderick

didn't look into it, didn't look in a connection, maybe Peggy had been a client or a patient of his who knows. And another weird twist, two weeks after Peggy's murder, a woman who was red-haired

and kind of looked like Peggy, who worked at the Prime Minister, bar, where Peggy had lost been seen.

She's out front of the bar selling tickets and here's someone behind her and a man with quote, "A bodybuilder for Seek was glaring at her." He pulled an icicle from behind his back and made several stabbing motions in the air. What? And she said he had a bodybuilder for Seek,

“Dr. Hammond was a bodybuilder. Sorry, an icicle from where? I don't know. I guess the roof?”

Jesus. I know. So, it was argued that it couldn't actually have been done in the mutilation because it was so precise in the middle of a field in the dark like that. So, it actually made me happen somewhere else. And then, there was no way a 15-year-old could perform that surgical procedure. You'd think that that would be, yeah, even though you're saying that the lead detective was like on, you know, only, which I know that happens. But those kinds of things were just like a

logic problem. Yeah, a lot of it. Yes, this is a person that's like doing violent art and doing upsettingly violent art where there's an, there's clearly a problem that like, that has not been addressed in any way. Yeah. But then you're just adding all this, like, 15 is like, he can't drive yet. And he's the skinny little kid. He, so, like, carrying a person's body on his own, isn't doesn't make any sense. There's no blood evidence anywhere on him. It's like the

circumstantial evidence. There's not stand up to the fucking evidence that it's not him. Except for, and again, it's what you're saying is the effect of like pictures on people. Yeah. And what you can read into pictures and what pictures make you feel, and how the power of that, and then attributing what that power is and saying, I know what you meant when you drew that. It makes sense in your head. Yeah. Well, so I watched the cold case files episode. So his case is

going to get overturned. But before they make the cold case episode as if when he gets sent to jail, he did it the end period. Okay. So over. So the cold case isn't up to date. You don't mean cold case. The TV show. Sorry. Longed actress. Cold case files. Okay. Okay. Sorry. I wasn't doing it. No, I'm glad you said that. And like I based this all off of cold case files. Cold case. Um, so they're, so they actually, the, um, the prosecutors are interviewed in this because they're like,

yeah, look what we did. We solved it. And, and the one woman who is the prosecutor was like, I saw the drawings and I thought, I thought it's, you know, it's like, I got a chill and I knew he did it. Yeah. It's that shit. Yes. Of course. Being able to watch that from a place of knowing he didn't is fucking creepy because it's like it's totally in her gut. She thinks he did it based on those looking at this photos. Based on surface things. Yeah. And that's, which is how it's so much

crime. Yeah. It gets prosecuted or ignored. Yeah. Because then if you're also a clean cut, rich guy, then you're not, you're not, it's not considered totally beyond the imagination. Yeah. Because we all know who looks right. And we know who's responsible for things in society. And then

“who's who does bad things. And that's, you need to keep it that simple. Yeah. To not freak out”

every day. This is bad. This is good. And you're a little world that makes total sense. And

be the place where we say psychopaths are real good at dressing up like a good guy. Yeah. That's the whole

idea. Yeah. And so super. You're not going to see crazy on the surface and someone has really fucking good at it and smart shit. Okay. I'm a, but, but, so, and also her body appeared really clean and an expert later told the legal team that a sponge line appeared to run down the side of her body, like she had been smunished off. Oh. There's like no blood on her body. Even though she's been

“stabbed in the back and murdered with that sub. I think there was blood on her, you know, in the back,”

but no blood on the front of her body. No blood on our genitals. Yeah. Wow. So we're going to would have had to have been cleaned up. Yeah. So they say that her body must have been washed and they also tried to drag a woman the same size as Peggy through the field and it just can't be done with one person, the size of Timothy. The size of a freshman in high school or sophomore. Yeah. But he's a skinny little kid. Okay. Okay. So the rest of the rest of Dr. Hammond and his

substance suicide is information that's withheld from the dude who was reading who thinks he could

fucking tell by the drawing, a doctor, Maloe. Right. So he was never told about any of the circumstances

around her face. Right. So that's withheld from him and other experts and the FBI was non-former, this case, either to reconsider their profiling of masters from 187. So they were never told that there could be another suspect. And so this doctor Maloe's fucking pissed at them for that and he's like I wouldn't have testified against, I wouldn't have testified for you guys if I'd known this. So in January 2008, advanced DNA testing is done in Europe on the close of Peggy and

scientist found DNA on the cuss of her blouse and on the waste man of her underwear that didn't match Timothy Masters and some of the genetic material all of it left by skin cells. So it's the new touch DNA craziness is matched to Peggy's long time on again, African boyfriend, the dude she was at, sought the bar. But she might have been in kissing him. Yeah. So it might have been, but it just would have made it that he's the focus, not Timothy, but of course, but he has,

I doesn't sound like a really tight alibi, but he has an alibi. Okay. So on January 22, 2008, a Colorado judge vacates Timothy Masters conviction and orders him released immediately. And in June 2011, he says he's no longer a suspect in the murder and he's completely exonerated. And how old is he now? I don't know how old he is, but he spent 10 years in jail. So he was arrested when he was 27. So he's almost 10 years, like nine and a half years in jail.

I don't know. So the prosecutors are disciplined in the case and fucking lieutenant Jim Roderick is like getting some crazy. He's indicted on eight counts of felony first degree perjury. For material false statements, he made with the arrest and conviction, but the fucking three year statute of limitations for perjury is gone. So even though this kid's spent 10, fucking years and you can't get that back, his statute of limitations. I hate statute of

limitations. Okay. But then he's indicted again. They're like no dude. Nine counts this time, but those charges are also dismissed, but he resigns. Yeah. I would hope. Yeah. So the county settles with Timothy Masters

for, initially, he basically gets almost 10 million dollars. Holy shit. Yeah, a million dollars a year

for going to jail. Yeah, fuck, take it, or leave it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you

“sat in your waist and almost sounded like that's easy. Well, I think that was passing through my head.”

Yeah, I mean, obviously no fucking way. Of course. It's a living hell. Of course not. So I don't know anyone that would. No, there's nobody, right? I mean, unless people have been like, no, I'm like, my cousins are all on the inside and I'll be fine. If you had some kind of guarantee of protection, you were the head of some jail gang or some shit like that. Or like, you know, the all the stories of like the, when like the mafia guys go to jail and they have like, they're, you know, they have

their own lazy boy chair and they're shit. I don't even have a lazy boy chair. I must be thinking of like, oh, good fellows. Yeah, where they're like making, making costumes. Yeah, I mean, that's like that. For some people, but it is, but I bet it's a real, it really drops off if you don't have that. Yeah. On your three, you're like, oh, this might have been a mistake. I could have

“maybe made money. Yeah. The lottery. Yeah. But which is also why we all have to remember, there's”

a lot of things going on in the world. So this isn't, there's a nobody's priority right now,

Like that idea is what's going to drive us into a dystopian future. The idea that they would make money of keeping people in jail, which is already hellish for most people, and already there are so many people in jail that like this guy, how many stories of this of black men? I was, yeah,

and you're completely right about second, just the basic conflict of interest that you make money,

the more people are in jail, the more people are in jail. It's so wrong. You can't get past that. There's no argument past that. I actually want to fight with my uncle at dinner one time, because we

“started talking about him. He was like, no, I think, and then I was just like this, and this,”

and we're just like, you simply, it's already happened in a lot of cases, you know, where, obviously, where people are like, it's either people are on the take, or they know that, you know, they get certain cases through, where it's like, don't even listen, they're going to write representation, or whatever, and boom, boom, boom. It's just a nightmare. If you ever get a chance to vote against for, just, yeah, just educate yourself on that, because God, please, God, no, it's a nightmare.

It doesn't make any sense. Oh, this whole world, yeah, there's some fucking mess anyway.

Yeah, so he got all that money, but we still don't know who killed, like, he had your whole case. And they said they're looking into it, but I haven't been able to find any updated articles, any, any fucking information. I think when you're not talking about this, we also talked about comparing it to the movie The River's Edge, which is a movie from the late '80s, I believe.

“Yeah, I think so. And it's one of the most disturbing, when I saw it, I was like a teenager,”

and it was so disturbing. But it was, that was like, this, that kind of era, where it was, like, teams today are becoming very disaffected, and no one cares, and there's an apathy, and it's, not that movie is trying to say that specifically, but it was almost like this, that was a cultural thing in that, a typical era of, like, your music is bad, and your rap music, and all these kind of people are actually Satanists, these teenagers, the Satanic panic or

thing. And so instead of these days, where we're slowly learning that it's like, a trauma response, where it's like, it's something like that happens to you as a child,

you would never know how to deal with it, and you could completely be in shock, literal, physical shock

for days. On top of the fact that, boys are taught, especially if he was being raised only by his father, you're not allowed to have feelings. He couldn't go to school and start crying. Yeah. He couldn't, you know what I mean? Like, he's supposed to either man up, you know, like, his choices were so limited in dealing with that problem. And for what I could see when he's talking about why he didn't call the police, and what he thought it was a mannequin, is that throughout the morning,

he is slowly starting to realize what it was. It's like, he needs to get there. So maybe he would have called the police later on the day. Yeah. Once he kind of dawned on him, because he was like contemplating, it's like, I got on the bus, and I was like, is someone playing a trick on me, that looked like a man, is someone trying to prank me? Like, he didn't understand what it was.

“And I think that that's, I think your, yeah, your brain won't say there's a dead body. It's”

says there's a mannequin, which is why I was like, it's not a mannequin. It's because we can't fucking even deal with the fact that something might be a dead body. Your brain is our, immediately like mannequin. Yes, not real. To explain this away, so that, so that this panic doesn't rise in me and all of my systems go bizarre, right? You for sure, and also them once, some, some, that piece of information does go it, like, like, if he did see her genitals,

that would have, that would have traumatized him so terribly. Totally. It doesn't matter what fucking some kid draws in a notebook. Yeah. The real thing is totally different. Yeah. And if you listen to heavy metal and you're trying to be a tough guy, that's one thing. Or, like, if you're expressing your rage for whatever reason, that's one thing. Yeah. But seeing it in real life must have been horrifying for this kid. Right. And like the saddest part is that this whole charade and this

whole insane, you know, laser focus on this kid. And this 30 fucking years of this case. And there's no, but there's nobody where held responsible for Peggy's murder. And it's almost, and it's just not the focus anymore of the case. Right. So if that hadn't been the case, then maybe her murder would have been solved. Well, yeah. That's the, the problem with the ego coming into it. Yeah. But yeah, I think that's just, I think like they're learning better and better

and faster and faster as these things come up where it's like, well, it used to be for years and hundreds of years. It was all theory. And it was whoever could kind of like, you know, boss the situation the best they could and make everybody feel safe again. Yeah. Because that's a lot of it too.

you know, it's not that way. And everyone has to adapt. And like, you know, it's the same thing

of cops not not cooperating across county lines. Or it's like, okay, so you'd prefer to go and solve than to have help. Well, it's like, and everyone did that, including the prosecutors. And one of, one of the woman female prosecutors said that she is embarrassed that she hadn't didn't have more info or something like that. It's just, yeah, you can't, you can't do that. And I think this is one of those cases of like that they use as an example of why you can't.

You can't make the evidence fit your suspects. Yes, it has to be the other way around. Totally. Yeah, exactly right. Which sorry, because I know a lot of people like went the other direction

and after a while, but that's the Steven everything. There's no fucking evidence that any of the stuff that

Brendan Dasi was like led to say, yeah, they couldn't find a drop of fucking blood in that in his house where he, where the one witness who got him convicted said it happened, right? It didn't happen that way. Now it could have happened a different way. Or something else could have happened that's nobody's been like talked about. But that one thing didn't happen, then convicted him.

“That's what's fucked up. Totally. Boom. It's all fucked. Okay, we're back. Are there any updates?”

There are. So Timothy Masters wrote a book detailing his experience being tried, jailed and exonerated for Peggy's murder titled "Drawn to Injustice the wrongful condition of Timothy Masters." Peggy's brother Tom Hedrick has remained vocal about his sister's case, making public appeals that he hopes will reignite interest and the Colorado District Attorney's office declared the case closed and said that it would require a full confession from the perpetrator

to change that. Wow. Well, now it's time for us to get into good things of the week. Are there any? I think so. Okay, good. Is this our 99th episode? Is it? 98. I think God. So we have two weeks to find a fucking person now on the show. Or just think of a theme. Yeah, let's not add that down to the show. Well, I was going to say we're like, "No, we have to do something now." I know, I don't know why I bought it up. What if we just don't do 100 episodes? We just go right

to 111. Yeah, it's like the 13th floor. Yeah. The 13th floor of the side, wayside school. We just didn't do 100 episodes. Whatever you want. I don't give a shit. I mean, I've already bought your present, but that's fine. Do you mind me something? No. You're excited like the joy on your face. I have to get me something. Yes. Now we have to get each other. There's something. Yeah. Shit. I guess I'm part of that. I don't even think of what I got. I should

give it a little extra back. I'm saving that. Nope. Do you like, it's already been on social media.

“Oh, wow. Oh, that's been given. Oh, I guess you get you also you have to one upland a leg.”

Because land a licks was a rando. I love you. And I love this reference gift. Mm-hmm. What if I

get you another specific land a leg straight? Can't second leg. I mean, you can't have one tray

up to two. I'm going to go. I'm going to find that lady from whatever's from the Florida city and get that lady bucks. I'm joyous on spot. I'm going to buy it for double the price. And love it. Which is like nothing. Oh, that's a good one. Damn it. $30. What am I going to do? Yeah, we got it. This is fun. We have now have two weeks to give 100th episode gift. Okay. And it has to be, it would have to please a Martha Stewart. Okay. And it would have to please

somebody else that would be on the other. I guess it's Snoop Dogg. Okay. That's the other end of that. Sure. Everyone has to. Okay. And please all that comes. It would have to please. Got it. It would have to. And we have to use every word. I don't know. I mean, leave some out. She's such a student. Can't I drop four words and change the meaning of a sentence I'm saying? And have you follow along? Um, what do you, what made you happy this week? Do you know? I forgot it. Was it your hangover?

Oh, not having a hangover. Well, I guess it didn't make me happy. It made me cry. But I really liked it.

“The thing I liked this week? You liked to cry? No. And I tell you what I liked this week. That's what I want”

to hear. Okay. Yeah. This week. Okay. My therapist told me about a podcast that I need to listen to. And now I'm fucking obsessed with it. Oh, yes. That's right. Oh, my God. That's right. And it made me sit in my car and ball and like listen to the end of that one of the episodes. It's called where should we begin? And it's this therapist named Esther Perrell. And she, it's an anonymous couple's therapy session that she records and you and kind of she talks you through it too. And it's

it's these themes that make you kind of understand things more. And I like did one, like hence

I went to therapy this week. I was like, I heard this and I wanted to do this. Like, can we try this? This is what I want. Like, and it really, it was really beautiful. And so there's an episode that I fucking the one I cried from is called, it's called trauma doesn't like to be touched. And it's just such a beautiful episode. I think everyone should listen to it. Oh, I want to, you sent

“that one to me right? Yeah, you have to. I'm going to listen to it. But I keep going, do I feel like”

bowling right now? No, I don't actually. I don't actually have to say that. Yeah, it's hard to be like, you're going to cry your eyes out and be really sad and moved. Yeah, I sometimes I like that. Yeah, but it has to like, you know, it's good. That's good for on a plane. Yeah. I love to just do a weird cry next to somebody on a plane. Because something about, that happens to me a lot when I travel, something about taking off and landing, I just start crying. Like, I'll start thinking about, like,

either I'm landing back into my life and it's this, this and this or when I'm taking off, I'm like, whatever, it's very transitional, maybe. And it gets me emotional. And then I'll just sit there, like slowly wiping through. So all the person next to me is like, do you want pretzels, the ladies offering pretzels? All right, let's hear us. Did I already tell you about going to Hamilton?

“Did I talk about it on the show? Have you been to Hamilton? I want to Hamilton. When my friend,”

this was like two weeks ago, probably. My friend and tell me, my friend, oh, that's right because, okay, my friend Stephanie, um, who I, we've talked about a lot on this podcast, but she, or texted me and was like, would, if I got Hamilton tickets, would you want to go? And I was like,

I absolutely would love to. I just would never do it on my own. Yeah. So we went,

pantages. Oh my god. Uh, we were, I realized, this is unfortunate. I realized as I was sitting there, I needed one stronger glasses prescription because I can't see in the glasses that I have anymore far enough away, which was a bummer because I was like squinting like a lunatic the whole time, but it was so fucking good. Now, how dumb am I to be saying that out loud nine years after the fact? But when things like that come out, I'm always the one that's like, I bet it's not. Yeah,

I know better. Yeah, I bet I have superior taste, whatever, which is a lame habit that I'm, it's just left over Kurt Cobain issues that I have from the 90s that I have to let go of. But it really reminded me how much I love to be a fan. I love to be a fan. It makes me feel so good. And when you watch something that is better than the hype, and there's no, there's nothing that's more hyped than Hamilton. And it absolutely doesn't just live up to it.

It goes beyond it. And there was a moment as a whole, you know, people, this is the oldest thing I could be saying, but there's a moment in one of the lines in the musical is immigrants get things done. And there's so many people in the theater that have already seen it at least once, just for that part, they explode with cheers and then immediately stop because they know they don't want to block everybody's enjoyment of the rest of the song. Oh my god, that's awesome. And it made me burst into tears.

It was like immigrants get things done. It's like, and then it just stops. And it was like, and I went, yeah, I'm, I am too. I'm like, is it for a new generation away? I'm immigrants. That's me. It was the fucking coolest, best thing, best lyrics, coolest music, best story, everything. I'm going. Can I get to, isn't hard to get tickets? It's impossible to get tickets. I'm not going. Love it. It just is so worth it. And, you know, and there are people who are like,

“I think there are people who are trying to insinuate, oh, if it's in LA, it's not going to be as good”

of a cast, right, or that. Well, those people are high as kinds, because the people that I saw at the pantages, I don't know. I'm sure Lynn Menwell, Miranda was amazing. I wouldn't have replaced any of those people with anybody else. They were incredible. And when people can sing in a theater that big. Oh my god. I just, it's so much talent. I love it so much. They fill up the whole room.

What an incredible skill. Yeah, that I'll never have. I know. Oh wait, we do that.

Wait, what? We do that. We just don't sing. That's right. That's the different. It's a big fucking different. I'll tell you. You know what? You're right. So, you know, just like groundbreaking revelation, Hamilton is good. Karen with the fucking update. Okay, we're back. Okay, so the title of this episode was "GrossFit", of course. But if we had to rename it, we could call it. Here's some pitches for the new name, like the big sipper himself,

which is something I used even of being while he was doing his coffee bit. That's clever. How

And the remotest island, which is when you're living. You're a bad backer. You can buy anything

“anywhere. Yeah, you're the remotest island. All right. Well, I think we did it. That's so many choices.”

Okay, that was this week's episode of rewind. Let's go back to the podcast and let Dottie say goodbye from 2017. Thanks for listening. You guys are great. Thank you. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye! Dottie? What cookie? What cookie? Dottie? I'm Michelle McFee and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance. I've ever reported on a Mormon polygamous and an Armenian businessman.

Multimillion dollar house for our Eastern Lamborghinis private jets a billion dollar fraud.

“But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me?”

Listen to Kingdom of Frog on the Ayahar Radio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of family secrets. He kind of showed me out of the way and said move and he went help the front door and he jumped in a car and drove

off and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of family secrets on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Your 20s can be so exciting but they can

“also be really overwhelming, confusing and honestly just kind of lonely. May is mental health”

awareness month and the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest

roadblocks we face. It was six years into my career. The 80 hour weeks and just the first one

in the last one out and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I like was just so wanting to like the out of that phase out of my skin and I just like really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me,

Chelsea and there we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. When like young people come

off to me and they want to be at that tour whatever and my first thing is always can you think of

anything else. You can do rather big because for today. Do that. David O'Yellowo. I love this podcast whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Dennis Leary, gating moderato from Stranger Things. Santa Moju, Camilla Marone, Carrie Kenny Silver and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.