Elon’s wildest interview yet — our reaction

[laughs] I thought those were great. Well, they'll weird out. [laughs]

“What I heard it, I was like, "That's how Sam is."”

[laughs] ♪ I feel like I could root a world and I know I could be what I want to ♪ ♪ I put my own in it like a day's all ♪ ♪ On a road, let's travel ♪ I tell you about this Elon Musk podcast.

Did you listen to this cheeky pint episode with Elon? I saw it, didn't listen to it. You got to listen to this thing.

This is an amazing podcast.

I think it's he who's the Indian guy. I started seeing him pop up like out of nowhere. Door Cash. Door Cash is a podcast, he's got his own YouTube channel, and whatnot.

He is this unicorn, 'cause he's a really good podcaster. Like he's got good energy, good vibe. He's like authentic nerd in a way. But he's also technical. So one of the reasons this podcast is really interesting

is because normally Elon says something, he'll be like, I predict that in four years, we will have, you know, whatever, 10 more data centers in space than we have on Earth, cumulatively.

And then what me or you or Joe Rogan or any of us would do when he says that? Well, my, whoa, yeah, that's crazy, man. How are you gonna do that, right? That's like that, like, clunk bro, like you know,

that's all we're capable of. Like our little peanut mine can only do so much. - But you're like, but Elon, that, that's it makes sense. Because electricity doesn't work the same way in space or whatever.

- Yeah, he was pushing back the whole time

to where I was like, is Elon gonna throw his drink in his face? Like, what's going on here? Is he gonna get mad that this guy keeps pushing back on every idea that he says?

And it because he pushed back. So he would be like, but why do we need that? We can, you're talking about this much energy that could be done by this many solar panels. That could fit in just Nevada.

So why do we need space to power this? And then Elon would be like, well, here's the reason why permitting and blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, but it won't there be other problems in space that are just as difficult.

“How are you gonna fix a broken GPU when it's in space?”

Like, what do you mean we do for maintenance? That's gonna be incredibly difficult to do when it's floating in space. And Elon was like, you know, then had to like come back with the counterpoint each time.

So that was one remarkable thing about the podcast was somebody was enough technical acumen to on the fly. So Elon would say something about space and that he'd like, so if you're gonna do 10,000 launches, that means you're launching a Starship every hour.

Every hour, you're gonna do a Starship launch. How many have you done the last, you've done like three or whatever in the last year? Like, that's, is that even possible to do an hour every hour? And then Elon would be like, well, you know,

there's more planes than that taking off from airports. So yes. And then they would like go into why that's like, either correct or incorrect. It's not, otherwise really funny

'cause the founder of Stripe is sitting there, right? This is, it was like a collab. It was on cheeky pint, which is made by the Stripe guy. And he probably asked five questions total in three hours and Dwarkesh asked 500, maybe.

- Did Dwarkesh ask? - Exactly. - What was needed and shout out to the guy from Stripe for letting that play out the way it did. I thought it made for a great podcast.

- Did he best Elon in anything? - No, no, I wasn't like a one-up spin chip, but it was definitely a, I'm not just gonna let you say that shit, like, way. So what do you know that I don't know?

Because I would just think this. And he would like kind of earnestly ask the question, and he'd be like, "Okay, I buy that that does this, "but I don't see the connection you made to this." And so he forced him to keep going,

which I thought was great. - Did you feel the same sense that I feel when I see a like, I wouldn't haunt a meter dash or like, that's a national pride? - Yeah.

(laughing) - Like, yeah, like, when Chris hit his eye. - He's like, the owner back in the NFL. (laughing) Is that how you felt?

(laughing) - A little bit, I'm a family guy. (laughing) Actually, I felt scared for him. I was like, dude, tone it down.

That's a little crazy. You just get a little, you get a little fice to hear. But he was also like, artistically like, unaware of like, so I can't not ask this, I have to ask this

because I want to know the answer to it. And I thought that was so great. He's so earnest in the way he does everything. It's great. (laughing)

- We're like, what? What? - Like, high five meter wife. - Why'd you do it? - Like a world-star hip-hop?

(laughing) - Where were we yet? - Oh yeah. (laughing) - Next.

(laughing) - I barely made out of body, dorkish, you know, hoodie. After that. (laughing)

“So can I tell you some of the crazy things that Elon said?”

- And, did you mention Epstein at all? - They didn't go into it.

They were basically, we're like,

we're gonna use this time to talk about like technology, not like the whoa. - Yeah, blah, blah, blah. - Like politics, like politics at Elon. They like did a very minimal amount

of that they did a little bit on Doge at the end, but like not not much. I'll tell you first, it was just like a useful thing, and then I'll tell you some of the crazy things, 'cause the crazy things you're gonna be like,

we're both again gonna be like, whoa man. But let's just do the useful thing.

So they were basically getting into their like, so, how do you do, like, what do you do?

“Like, what are you doing differently than the rest of us?”

Like, what? What is it that you're doing?

That's leading to all of this incredible,

like individually and of any one of your companies is doing incredible things, right? It's basically a trillion dollar company. X-A-I came into the AI game, like, I don't know, seven years late or something like that,

and became a $250 billion company. I saw that X-A-I thing, I didn't even know what it is. - Have you ever just grew up? It's Elon's competitor to chatGPT, which is the product is called Grock.

It's his revenge company, 'cause when Open AI kind of screwed him and did exactly the opposite of what he wanted, right? Open AI, Open Source AI, that's a non-profit, and now it's a for-profit, close source company,

and he funded $50 million in that now owns none of it. Like, his revenge company was X-A-I. But again, seven, eight years late to the game, and still caught up Tesla, obviously, worth more than the next 20 car companies combined.

So, he said he's like, you know, he's doing any one of these companies dominate. All of these companies supernova. What is this? What's even happening?

Something about hiring, and they were like,

you must have an incredible people,

because just by logic, there's no way you could be in five of these companies at the same time, doing the things yourself. So you must have incredible people. How are you getting these people?

“And so they were like, what do you look for when you hire?”

'Cause he hired, I guess, the first thousand people at SpaceX or thousand plus people at SpaceX. He interviewed them himself. And he just goes, I'm looking for evidence of exceptional ability.

And he goes, sometimes I would see a resume, and I'd be like, this person sounds great. He goes, but I've learned you trust the conversation, not the resume. So he's like, if in that first 20 minutes,

I'm not saying, wow, I believe the conversation, and I don't believe the resume. And he goes, all I asked them for in the interview is tell me about something, exceptionally you've done.

I'm looking for evidence of exceptional ability. And if they can't tell me a story, he goes, if they say one thing, or one to three things that I'm just saying, wow, wow, wow, that's all I'm looking for.

And I have to see define that of exceptional ability. Yeah, I could be like, I was an NCAA athlete, and I was I won. I won. He's looking for technical achievements

or things you've built or done technically. And he was like, he's like, it's not that I'm batting a thousand. I made a lot of mistakes, he goes. But at this point, I have probably to use the AI terms. I have the most training data, probably out there,

of hiring like technical talent, you know, I've been doing this for a long time, and I've interviewed with so many of these people myself, and I've got to see what worked, and what didn't. And then I revised my training, you know,

I have a big training set, and I revised my own, I are old myself, and I read an reinforcement learning on myself in order to figure out what should I actually be looking for, what do I actually want? And then they were like, they asked them this great question.

“They go, what do you look for in like a sparring partner?”

So like, what does it take to work well with Elon? And, you know, what do you want? And he goes, I don't want a sparring partner. I want you to execute well. If someone executes well, I'm a huge fan.

If they don't, I hate them. (laughs) Because I don't care about my own idiosyncratic preferences. He goes, if you get things done, I love you. And if you don't, I hate you.

(laughs) I thought those, that's so great. Well, I'll weird out. (laughs) You say that, I feel like you're the same way I did.

I literally feel like, when I heard it, I was like, that's how Sam is. Well, I just took Andrew Wilkinson's personality test. You seem to tweet that thing out the other day. Yeah.

You've always autistic, apparently.

So, like, literally what's it test? Wait, what do we lead with that? Oh, yeah. And, you know, yeah, breaking, telling TVPN, I need to get one of those little, like, announcement things.

Yeah, this is better than your birthday. Fab night, that was your awakening day. Yeah, exactly. The big A day. Um, you know, our podcast can get into the top top charts here.

We need to break into the top 10, we've been lacking. Yeah, it turns out, uh, you know, capital A autistic. And so, maybe Elon and I, um, I don't know. Maybe he's got the good type of autistic though. Yeah, he's got the math one.

And you have like, we both get the one where we, uh, are just awkward in social situations and we say things, like, I was like, the social one, you got the math. By the way, if anyone who's, if we say this with extreme love, add a sense of humor about this,

there's a long running joke, which is like, in San Francisco, like, it's one of the highest status. It's one of the highest status things you could have. And that's where, uh, the origin of the joke comes from. All right, so a lot of people watch it,

listen to the show because they want to hear us just tell them exactly what to do, what it comes to starting or growing a business. Now, a lot of people message Sean and I and they say, all right, I want to start something on the side.

Is that a good idea? And again, what they're really just saying is just give me the ideas. Well, my friends are in luck. So my old company, the hustle, they put together a hundred different side hustle ideas.

And they have appropriately called it the side hustle idea database. It's a list of a hundred pretty good ideas, frankly. I went through them. They're awesome.

And it gives you how to start them, how to grow them, things like that gives you a little bit of inspiration. So check it out. It's called the side hustle idea database. It's in the description below.

You'll see the link, click it, check it out. Let me know the comments which I think. Can I tell you another thing, he said in this. So he was like, they kept asking.

“They were like, okay, so like, what are you doing differently?”

He goes, I just have a maniacal sense of urgency. And he goes, I shoot for a deadline that I have a 50% probability of success. And people make fun of me because that means half the time. I'm late, and I'm wrong about my deadline.

And I miss my deadlines. But it's worth it because your work is like a gas. It expands to fill the time you give it. And so I just don't give it much time. And so, okay, that was good.

Now let me tell you about some of the crazy stuff. So wait, that's actually really interesting. I get criticized within my own company of doing that, of creating like these super, and people get worn out.

And then like her mosey, who I think is a really smart business guy, he like preaches all the time of like pet patients and everything like that. It's a hard dichotomy to handle. Yeah, I think it's sort of like a long term patience

as if you're not gonna give up. And you're gonna stay at it. I think short term, monochocensive urgency is on the task. So it's like patient with the mission and monochole about the task is probably the way to do it.

So here's another thing that I picked up. He might have said the phrase limiting factor, 400 times in three hours. Have you ever said that phrase? (laughs)

So if one thing came out of this, it was how Elon things and works is, you have a huge mission, right? We're gonna go to Mars.

We're gonna build the first electric car company.

We're gonna build artificial general intelligence, like whatever it is. Huge mission, you have monochocensive urgency. Great, that's the second component. What's the third one?

It's this idea of the limiting factor. And so at any given time, all he's doing

“is he's sort of scanning for what is the limiting factor?”

As in, what is the bottleneck that's preventing us from getting to the outcome sooner right now? So for example, with AI right now, they're like, you're doing these space data stations,

data centers, that sounds crazy. Why are you doing this? Why can't we just do it on Earth? And he's basically like, well, to make AI smarter, we need bigger data center, more compute.

And so you're either gonna be limited by chips. Initially we were limited by chips. So I started building chips. So like Tesla's building their own GPUs to like the equivalent of the Nvidia chips.

And he bought the most, he bought huge orders of Nvidia chips and told Jensen, like, give me everything you got.

The second thing is power.

And he's like, the limiting factor is now power, not chips. He's like, I suspect that actually in the next 24, 36 months, there will be more GPU chips that can't be turned on. So the limiting factor will not be chips anymore. We're not constrained.

My chips will be constrained by power availability. And so they walk through, they're like, so what do you mean? So like, why can't you just connect to the grid? And he's like, you can't connect to the grid for these reasons. They're, okay, well, why can't you do it off grid?

Why can't you just get a power plant and power your own chips, not connect to the grid? He's like, well, there's three companies that make the power plants and they're all booked out until 2032. We can't build the power plants fast enough,

there's not enough people or projects in time to build enough power plants as we're gonna need. And they're like, well, specifically, like, what's the, so then he's specifically why? He's like, actually it's the turbines inside the power plants

that we cannot procure in time. And there's this many companies that make the turbines. And actually within the turbines, it's the blades and veins that you can't do. And so we're gonna try to make them at Tesla,

but even that will take time. And so we're limited by this. And so I'm throwing all my way into whatever is the limiting factor any given time in this business. And so it ended up with like,

if we're gonna launch these data centers in space, that's the way to get around this limiting factor, but over and over and over again in the whole podcast.

It's basically like the formula is like,

identify the limiting factor and then go ape shit to get over it. And most people don't do either of the two. They don't actually correctly address or identify the limiting factor.

“And then if they even if they did, they don't go ape shit, right?”

And so ever since this podcast, it like, any meeting I've had. So like, you know, I check in with kind of I portfolio companies and I've just gone fully alone on them where I'm just like, so we want this outcome,

what's the limiting factor? And then they'll see, oh, we'll talk for five minutes. I'm like, cool, you didn't answer my question. What's the limiting factor? Well, the limiting factor is X.

Okay, great. Why are you talking about all these other things besides X? X is the limiting factor.

Okay, well, what does that, okay, so what does that mean? Now, once you identify that, you need to drop everything else, just focus on X and then go ape shit on it. And he would say he's like, in my companies,

if something's going, or something is going well, you're not gonna see me. Right now, the boring company's going well. I don't spend any time on it because it's going well. If it hits a roadblock and there's a limiting factor

and they can't solve it, then I will come in and I'll throw my full force, my full way down it. And I just thought this simple operating philosophy,

“I think can serve a lot of people is to identify”

the limiting factor and then figure out how to throw your entire way to against it. And, you know, sort of, if you gotta go over the wall through the wall, around the wall, under the wall, whatever you gotta do, you gotta get past that wall.

I don't know, I don't know if you wanna play the game, but right now, let's take him to, for example, what's the limiting factor in Hampton? Thought exercise.

- Yeah, so we basically only do two things.

We get the best people to join a core group and then we allow them to have good conversations. And so for us, the limiting factor in order to expand to chapters globally is to get more of the best people. So more people.

What's the limiting factor on more good people? - Well, I could probably make a list of five things that we could do, for example, we could ask for referrals more than we do. We could probably spend more on advertising.

- So, okay, so those would be solutions, but just one level deeper into the problem. So like, we have a lot of people, they're not good, or we have good people, but we should all have enough of them, we don't have enough people applying, period.

- We're limiting our prospects to only 13 cities. And so we need to open that up in order, we have thousands and thousands of people applying obviously a month, but we limit it only to 13 cities.

“- So what's the limiting factor of opening up 13 more cities?”

- Just bandwidth, probably of like having someone really focus on a particular city, because once one person joins or a prospect shows interest in let's say Birmingham, how do we find seven other people who are interested? And then the way that we will eventually scale that

is we will instead pivot our business

to where moderators are basically franchisee owners

and they have to go and help recruit seven other people once we give them one person and so they're running their own little coaching business. - Right. And so a useful exercise in this case would be,

basically what's stopping us from doing it tomorrow? - So let's say tomorrow you wanted to open 10 cities. What would actually break if you open 10 cities tomorrow? - Well, customer would potentially be angry because they'd have to wait a long time

until we found seven other people and let's say Birmingham. - And so then you say, is that true, is there no art? Do we have, so to have 10 cities, you need how many members to activate that city?

- Well, you just need one quirk about eight people. So you need 80 people, so you need eight per city. Do you have eight that are ready to open one city tomorrow? - Or no. - Could you open one tomorrow?

- Yes. - Could you open two tomorrow? - Probably maybe, but like it would get hard. I would need more people. And then the question would be like,

well why do I need more people? Why can't I just do it with less people? - Yeah, okay, so you start to get into like the nuts and bolts of it, right?

“But like if we just even just look at what just happened, right?”

It was like started with a high level problem. We need more power, right? In your case, it was like, we need more good people. And then you got to turbines and blades and veins. Is the limiting factor, which was like,

actually Mississippi has four people and we need eight, right? That's the turbines, that's the blades and veins level of detail. And so, you know, could you do, we wanted, do we need to do 10, could we do I do one? Yes, could I do two?

No, what happened at two? Why did one to two break, right? So you sort of, okay, there's a limiting factor somewhere between one and two, what's different? What's what happened there?

And also a second ago you were like,

we could ask for referrals, we could do X, we could do Y. It's almost like we jumped to solutions really quickly. And what I think actually happens in these companies is we sort of already have an in mind a bunch of pet projects of good ideas,

generically good ideas, but not specifically problem solving ideas. And I think the one big sign of one big source of waste in companies is when everybody wants to do their projects or everybody wants to do their generically good ideas,

rather than the specifically effective ideas that are going to solve the current bottleneck that is right in front of us that we could unblock for tomorrow. I think this makes sense. I think it's hard to pull off.

I think that like, it's hard to pull up just because of interpersonal relationships. A lot of people would approach this and be like, well, I'm doing all these other things. Like, how dare you, like, tell me, just do this one thing.

Like, you don't have to just stand. Like, how are we going to keep the business running? And you know what I mean? That's the pushback mostly. Totally.

And I think that's by the way, that's a very real thing. Like, hey, we're going to focus on this. And it's like, well, actually, you don't really realize I'm holding up this entire ship by keeping these six trains running on time.

And I have to keep doing that. So a lot of people, a lot of times, I've seen this. I was like, I could tell the good people in my company. They're like, yeah, I hear what you're saying. And I'm going to do that.

I'm not even going to, like, I'm going to have to keep some of these, these trains running.

I just know it needs to get done in blah, blah, blah. What I found is pretty effective is to address it in the call. So what I'll do is I'll address the tradeoff.

So I'll say, so here's what that means.

By focusing on this, what that means is that this area, where we actually know how to improve it, and we have a bunch of good ideas, and maybe even two things that are in flight, we're actually just not going to do any of those.

And we're going to accept mediocre progress here for exceptional progress here. And nobody wants to say that out loud, but I'm going to say it aloud, because it's true. We have a tradeoff of energy and focus and intention.

And if we're going to move it all over here, that's what that means over there. We're all saying out loud, yes, we understand and accept this. It's like accepting the terms and conditions when you sign up for a website.

Like, yes, you're going to sell my data. So yep, over here, we're going to make far less progress than we want.

“And I think this happens throughout life, right?”

You have a kid. And you're like, wow, this is really important.

What guess what's going to be a little less important

is like your work for the next three months. And your gym routine is going to go out the window. And you just have to like, if you don't accept those tradeoffs, you're just going to feel a constant underlying state of anxiety or stretch yourself too thin

and do a poor job of everything. Rather, it's actually just better to say, great. For this season, this is what matters. And I'm OK with a less than stellar rate of progress. I will only do this amount to keep this running,

but beyond that, I will not be doing for this next period of time. Are you good at not bitching at them about why this thing sucks? For example, for the hustle, it was a growing email list. Therefore, social media does not matter.

And then I wanted to talk about social media suck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I give them permission to remind me. We put the thing right in front of us, like front and center. We're like, I'm a obnoxious repeater.

So like every day, when I start my day, I will say, hey, here's our goals for the year. Here's the things we said, matter.

“Here's what matters this week, and I'm like a bot.”

But because I realize, if I don't keep repeating it, people don't even know what we're trying to do. And we don't, like, so I try to get a really crisp set of things. Clearly, really crisp, clear set of things we're doing. And then I will repeat it so much to the point

that I myself remember we said, social media doesn't matter. All that matters is growing email list. And they have permission to be like, wait, but social media doesn't matter. All that matters is the list.

And it takes some time to work together where you kind of screw that up. It's like, you refer, you're like, why was this last month, not as productive as we wanted? And then you sort of come to the powwow and realize,

like, well, it's because we said we're going to focus on these things, but then we kept getting distracted. And wanted to also do these five other things and guess what? When we try to do it all, like, we can have anything. We just can't have everything all at once.

And you learn that the hard way once twice. And it's like, George Bush, you know, full me once. Shame on me, full me twice, don't fool me again. You know, it becomes that in a certain point. So the good thing, you know, I've worked with Ben for like six years.

So we kind of know, like, you know, we've stepped in that gum before. Like, do we really want that on our shoe again? I can kind of see it coming if we're going to do this. Or you're saying this, but remember, this is like that other time. So let's just stay focused.

- You see that George Bush quote, and they're like, you're a wrap-in. - Seemless. - That was great. - Well, what's the quote?

Fill me with shame on me. Fill me twice, don't fool me again. - Yeah, he like loses the quote, so he's like full me twice. Don't, you can't be fooling me. (laughing)

It's like an old-timer. Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot. Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book, but then tearing out four-fifths of the pages.

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“And so if you want to read the whole book,”

instead of just reading part of it, visit HubSpot.com. Can I show you one other clip that that was pretty, just, I don't know, wild from Elon? - Yeah.

- Is it to clip about how he lied about, not going to Jeffrey Epstein's island? - No. Did he go, actually? - I'm not sure if he went or not,

but he said that he refused to go, but the emails say that he was actually a big egg to go. (laughs) - Yeah, hey, we're gonna be around the town. You guys got anything going on, yeah, definitely.

- All right, watch this. - Obviously more intelligent than humans. - Since some sense you're like a doomer and this is like the best we've got, it's just like it keeps it around

because we're interesting. - I just want to be realistic here. If we have, if AI intelligence is vastly more, if AI is like, you know,

let's say that there's a million times

more silicon intelligence than there's biological. - It's, I think it would be foolish to assume that there's any way to maintain control over that. Now you can make sure it has right values or you can try to have the right values.

picked a wrong time step a little bit there, but here's a 15 minutes in and they barely drink their drink. - No, there's refills, there's refills. Well, one of the funny jokes is that Dorkesh doesn't touch his point.

He just keeps bringing it up to his mouth and it just wets his beard and then it goes back down with the same amount in it. (laughs) - Well, all of the other guys are just like crushing them.

All right, so here's what he says about AI.

So the topic is, how do you make sure that AI, you know, ends up being good for humanity? And he says something where he goes,

“they're like, they're like, how do you stay in control?”

And he says, if you have intelligence, that's 100 times smarter than any human, it's hard to imagine that the human stay in control. And then the second thing they go, so wait, are you like a tumor here, like, you know,

you just think we're doomed? And he goes, I'm just trying to be realistic here. If AI is vastly more intelligent, like there's a million more times silicon intelligence to biological,

I think it would be foolish to believe that we can maintain control over that. All you could do is try to make sure it has the right values. Like, kind of like basically it goes on like - You crazy to kid.

- That it would keep us around. (laughs) And I just thought that's a pretty stunning admission for a guy who's building AI to basically say out loud,

this thing is going to be so much smarter than humans. And when it is, the idea that the humans, like the chimps are going to stay in control of the humans, like that the humans are going to be in control of this thing that's a hundred times

or a thousand times a million times.

- But it doesn't make sense to me, because it's foolish. - Like, you know, the ego is the reason why like Napoleon's Napoleon, you know, like the reason to dump, like there, like does it, 'cause there's a computer have the need to dominate?

- It's not even the dominate, it's that we don't control it. So for example, like, if we say, "Cool, I want you to run all decisions by me." But it makes decisions a thousand times better than any human alive in the history of mankind.

Realistically, is it gave it the mission of being successful? Is it actually going to run the decisions by you? - That's what I'm asking. Does it actually have the mission to be successful? Like, a human has, well, you're going to give it to us.

Even if even if the human is the one prompting it, say, "God, hey, I want you to make this thing really." I want you to help me become president. I want you to build this successful company. I want you to build this technology.

Do you think after that, it's going to care

“what you have to do. - Well, you can turn it off”

if you turn it on. - That's what I want. Like, humans have a compulsion to be right. A lot of humans have a compulsion to be nice to reciprocate. It doesn't have compulsions.

And so like, can you, can you turn it? The way that you just told it to dominate or to win can you also say, win or less? - You might. Then the next guy says, "No, I want to win."

Stay on. All it takes is one guy to not turn it off, right? Like, the same thing with one country, to not have safeguards on it. I've seen the AI social network where they're like,

"Oh, AI, guys, talk it about how they're going to dominate humans." - Yeah, although that might be like kind of fake, it's unclear at this point if that's fake or real. Like, it might be that humans are saying, say something like this, 'cause it freaks everybody out,

goes viral. Have you seen this? You long-tweeted this. This meme, I don't want to live in a world where someone else makes humans irrelevant before we do.

(laughs) - That does, that is kind of how it feels. - Yeah. - But like, I hope he's wrong. - Yeah, even with SpaceX, he's talking about like,

you know, the goal is, you know, the original mission with SpaceX is to like, preserve the, they call it like the candle of consciousness.

Like, basically like, what if something happened to Earth,

if we're a single planet species, like all consciousness could get wiped out, it should be really important that we're a multi-planetary species. So that like, really, you know, human consciousness

or intelligence, like, you know, lives on. And in this interview, he kind of backs off that. He's like, you know, consciousness, we don't really know what that is. So let's just say intelligence,

'cause X-A-I just merged with SpaceX. He's like, so, you know, at least intelligence will propagate through the internet. It's basically like, the robots and the chips and the AI will definitely be multi-planetary.

Whether we are or not, like, he basically, his argument and so, do our characters like, why do you think that they would care that humans survive? And he's like, well, you know, there's no reason to kill us.

He's like, that's not very reassuring. It was essentially the way that he put it. He's like, you know, humans are interesting and we're part of consciousness.

“So like, if you want to maximally expand consciousness,”

you would keep humans around, right? There's not a big advantage to doing it. It's like, well, if that's the last, if that's the moral victory we're clinging to, this is a pretty, startling thing.

So I just thought that's, that's a kind of crazy mission that he was making. Can I tell you two other, just insane things from this? So he's talking about what he's doing with his AI project, which I don't think he's ever really talked about before.

Have you ever heard of this macro-hard project? - Yeah, let's call it a macro-hard. - Yeah, so it's like, like the 70 for 70, or what's, like, called 70 for 70, where you get a, like, run a mile every day for 70 days, 70 hard.

- How many times? - I've heard from the town. - Yeah, he made it the opposite of Microsoft.

It's macro-hard.

“And basically what he was doing, what he's doing,”

is he's building what he calls human emulators. So here's the Elon philosophy or the, like, strategy that kind of got revealed during this podcast. So the strategy is, how do you win? Well, he goes, if you think in the limit,

what is the, what is the most that AI can do before you have robots that are, you know, like, artificial intelligence robots, which they're trying to build a Tesla, right? So Tesla's building Optimus, which is the robot,

that can do any of the work that a human could do. And, you know, that's robots, he goes, what's, so what is he doing with his software play? It's, he goes, think in the limit. Well, the limit is, if you're not in a robot,

it's anything a human can do on a computer.

And so he's like, basically, he says,

within, like, 12 or 24 months, he believes that AI will be able to do anything that a human can do on a computer. So he calls it a, so they're building what they call the human emulator. So it's an AI that can work like do anything

a human could do with a computer. So like, I have an executive assistant. So the idea would be, obviously the AI would be able to do everything she does for me. So researching things, booking things, you know,

making anything happen, that's obviously there. But also, you and I, doing this podcast. If we can do this online, that means that AI should be able to do this online. It should be able to produce an interesting podcast twice a week

about, you know, business trends, opportunities, ideas that are related to entrepreneurship for business junkies just like us. And it should be able to have a sense of humor, but bring to the table three or four really interesting

topics per episode. So AI should be able to do that because this is done online. So he goes, anything that's moving electrons, the AI should be able to do.

“And they go, well, how are you trying to solve that?”

And he goes, like, so do you want me to just give away all my secrets on a podcast? Like, that would be sort of stupid, right? Like, I mean, the most competitive game in the world right now is to create this.

He calls it the highest ELO battle in the world. He's loving, like, you know, the chess rankings, like ELO ratings, so he's like the high sea. Dude, because ELO needs a wedge, man. That's kind of hilarious.

Macro hard, he would be later, this is crazy. So he's like, you know, he's like, he's like, it'll take at least three more beers for me to get, you know, to reveal that. But he's like, it'll be something

like the way that Tesla solves self-driving. And then they're like, okay, unrelated question. How did Tesla solve self-driving? And he's like, well, what it did was it used very basic sensors, the same sort of sensors that humans have,

in this case, you know, mostly cameras, eyes vision. And it watched humans drive a lot, like millions and millions and millions and millions of miles. And then it tried to emulate what they would do. So it tries to, while you're driving,

it tries to guess what you would do. And anytime there's a difference, it notes it, and it tries to learn from other people in similar situations.

Until it can basically match what a human would do while driving.

“And that's what Tesla's self-driving does.”

And so similarly what they're doing with the human emulators is they're basically getting tons and tons of data of humans using computers. And they're using that to teach computers how to use computers.

And that's where this is going for macro-hard. And then he talked about on the robot side, they're like, is that a macro-hard, a company? I don't know if it's a project or a company. I think it's a project within XAI.

I don't think it's a separate company. How many of you will work at XAI? Is XAI considered Twitter now? And same company. They did merge, XAI and X merge.

And now that merge with SpaceX. And OK, so now let's talk about the robots thing real quick. So he goes, the optimist robot, he goes, it's the infinite money glitch. Because labor is the biggest market in the world.

And if you can have robots that can do human labor, and specifically, once the robot can build more robots, that's the infinite money glitch.

So basically, once the optimist can build more optimists,

it's over. And he's like, and they were like, well, how will you do the emulator thing? Because Tesla made sense, right? Humans bought the cars and drove them around.

So that gave you all the training data of how to drive. And with macro-hard, theoretically, you can have a bunch of humans using computers and emulate it. But how do you do the robot one?

There's not enough robots to learn from. And so he said he's building this warehouse. Where 10,000 robots will be able to self-play. So it's basically this giant warehouse. Where 10,000 robots are, well, walking around,

trying to figure out how to do tasks. Like, pick this up, move this here, try this, work together on this, build this box without it breaking, whatever. And they're not going to tell them how to do it. They're just going to self-play over and over and over again

and tell they figured out the same way. They're going to come in after three weeks. They're going to be trying to solve the bars to get out. You know what I mean? They're escaping prison.

So this is how they built the best chess engines

they just said play 10 million games and figure it out.

“All you know is the rules of where the pieces can move.”

This pawn can move forward. The bishop can move diagonally. That's all we tell you. And we'll tell you that winning is good. Go. And it played like 10 million games and it became the best

chess player in the world. They did it with go and became the best go player ever. Now he's doing the same thing with robots. But I thought, how crazy is that going to be? There's just the self-play warehouse where the robots are trying

to figure out how to do stuff. Like, where is it going to be? Where's this going to be? I don't know. He didn't give me the address, but it sounds pretty awesome, right?

They got to put it like, you know, they got like puppy cams. Yeah, like doggy, doggy, like doggy dick. Here's, you know, we need that. So much fun. Tell me I wouldn't be watching that thing four hours a day. This is like whenever we talk about this, my fight or flight response

goes up hard to core. Can I ask what's the, okay, so I have this theory that basically a thing happens, we give it a meaning. The meaning just decides the feeling. You told me about the thing happening, hearing about all these exciting AI

breakthroughs, and you told me the feeling, which is like kind of fight or flight fear, anxiety, exhaustion. What's the meaning you're putting on all this? That's making you feel that way. What does it mean that Elon's doing this or that these tools are

rapidly advancing or there's new tools every day? What's the meaning you're putting on that? I'm falling behind.

“You, yeah, you either got to get on or get off, and you have to,”

you have to adapt faster than ever before in order to keep up. And all these opportunities are flying by and, you know, what's the phrase like opportunities like trains?

Thankfully, there's always another one, but these trains

are moving real fast, and I even know if I can grab it. If I don't catch on, when it's at this top. And what happens if you don't catch on? Well, I'm lucky. I'm going to put my life for, like, if I don't catch on,

like, I just, I'm nothing. Like, I'm safe. But, like, as an opportunity loving entrepreneur, like, there are, like, you know, you do feel FOMO. And also, there is fear.

There's a bit fear, but it's weird. You have to, like, think about it. I'm lucky. I'm not fearful entirely of myself, but I still feel that, like, humanity is, like, changing and it's scary.

Yeah, it's just change. It's, and change is good and bad, but it's just, like, the speed of things is incredible. I mean, I remember in 2021, my friend was telling me about OpenAI and thinking about joining the company.

And I was like, I don't know, man, is this legit? Like, who knows? That was only five years ago. And it's, like, our parents use it, you know? Like, it's pretty, my mom uses it constantly, which is crazy.

It's astounding. It's crazy. It's wild, like, and there's a different tool every single day in their so good. Yeah, I guess I just, I think we should leave it

with the optimistic version of that, which is,

there's never been more opportunity than this

that if you're good, you get to lever up. And like, whatever your output was going to be, you can sort of tend to 100x that using these tools. You don't need to use all of them. You don't need to catch every opportunity.

Catch in any piece of this is going to be huge. Catching any piece of this at all is going to put you in the top 1% because if we're feeling this,

“you have to remember, the whole world is not.”

If it's all about change in adaptation, who better than us? You know, who better than the type of person that listens to this podcast than to take advantage of that? Like, you know, 99.99, 99, 99% of the world

doesn't even listen to a podcast like this. If you're listening to the podcast like this, you're already in the 0.01% of, you know, adaptability of change of future promise. And so you're better positioned than anybody

too to take advantage.

Yeah, the problem is we compare to the two decimal places

over and we're like, but he wants doing this. But this guy's doing this, right? And it's like, you don't have to be them to win. In fact, you know, we sort of stand on the shoulders of giants. - I have a friend who was telling me his father owns

a nursing home company or something like that. What it's like at home care. And he's like, my dad's in his 70s. He lives in the Midwest and Missouri. The business does 90 million a year in revenue.

80 million a year in profit. And I told him about AI and he had never heard of it. Like, he didn't even know what that word meant. Like, it wasn't even like, and he's like, I went to his office and it was like 80 employees.

And they all looked like the same woman over and over and over again. Of like, you know, you've seen fairs dealers day off like the secretary, like with like that haircut. It's like they, like that word AI, they literally

didn't know what it was. And it just crazy how much effort, like I'm like, how much they spend a payroll. He's like, they spent $8 million a year on payroll. And I was like, what are they doing?

And he explained, I'm like, that's crazy. That's just like that one little business that you've never even heard of in the middle of Missouri. That just unlocked $8 million a year, probably in value, someone can go and do.

- Right, right. All right, let's take a quick break 'cause I got to tell you story. Let me tell you at the first time, I tried to run payroll for my team.

I was using a traditional bank and you know the type.

It's built like a 2002 tax form. And it was open only during business hours. And I hit send and it froze. They flagged the transaction, they lock my account. They put me on hold for 45 minutes.

And then they told me, I got to visit my local branch. And that was the day I started looking for a new bank solution. After asking if you founders what they were using, I found out about Mercury. And so now my payroll is two clicks.

I can wire money. I can pay invoices. I can reimburse the team, all from one clean dashboard.

“That's why I use it for all of my companies.”

And so do 200,000 other startup founders. And so if you're looking to level up your banking, head to murky.com and apply in minutes. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank, the surface is a provider through choice financial group,

call them in and evolve bank and trust members FDIC. All right, listen, Sean, you're getting dumber. Am I? Well, we all are. So I'm reading this book called Stolen Focus.

Because I'm basically like incredibly depressed by the fact

that like I get 10,000 notifications a day. And it's like impacting my mood. And so I saw this book called Stolen Focus. Have you ever seen it? Well, I saw it, but then I looked away.

Great, good joke. But it kind of got me interested in its coincidental just last month. This one neuroscientist did this thing in front of Congress. This testimony was done in front of Congress,

where he basically said that this is the first time in history of measuring this since the 1880s that the current generation, Gen Z, is dumber than the generation above them. So have you heard of the herd of the Flynn effect?

No. So basically, since like the 1800s, since like we started like measuring IQ at a large level, every generation is roughly 10 points higher than the previous generation.

So every 30 years, it goes up by 10 points or every 10 years, it goes up 3 points. Which is kind of cool, because that means that the average person today would have been gifted in like 1900.

And so it's been going up for a variety of reasons, one education, die, a bunch of different stuff. But starting in 2010, they noticed a decline. And this isn't just in America. It's in Norway, they notice there's a bunch of different countries.

“I think 80 different countries have actually studied the same thing.”

This isn't just an American thing. But starting since 2010, there's been a decline. And so now officially, according to like, I think it's the opposite of like 800,000 test subjects.

Gen Z is the first generation.

I think since 1800, that has a lower IQ from the generation before. Is that insane? They blew it. We had a trend going, we had a street going.

So the Flynn effect is the long-term study show again, increase in standardized IQ test scores observed at the 20th century, about 3 points per decade, as you said, primarily due to environmental factors, such as education, nutrition, smaller family sizes,

more technology, rather than genetic changes. It's mostly significant in test measuring fluid intelligence, which is problem solving, rather than crystallized intelligence, which is acquired knowledge. It highlights that intelligence is heavily influenced

by environment, blah, blah, blah. OK, great. And then you're saying, recently, it's not holding Gen Z. The first generation of the score, lower than their predecessors.

And they have this picture of someone.

It's the headline article, which is always great.

It's like Gen Z is like a gayer than every ever before. They like Zubey.u. Yeah. Dude, I'm never just going to pose for a picture without asking what it's for again.

“What-- OK, so Gen Z is that I think 2010 onwards.”

So people who are like 16 years old, I think maybe 10 to 16. Something like that. Is that right? I thought it's like Gen Alpha. 97 to 2012.

Sorry, I got that way off. Yeah, you're right, Gen Alpha. OK, so they're like what, 25 right now. And so what-- you can guess, probably. What do you think has caused this?

Well, yeah, it just seems like that sort of brain rot. The brain art consumption, right? Like it's like diet. Why are we getting fatter? And then you go to the grocery store.

And you see that a grocery store is basically lead Gen for a hospital, right? It's just the sugar factory. So yeah. So you know, it's not a big surprise.

So the correlation-- and I think there's causation proof, but the correlation is certainly the rise of smartphones in social media. It kind of got me thinking, like I think that we talked about in flexion points

on this podcast about businesses. So in flexion points means a tech inflection, meaning everyone has a smartphone, and we all have GPS's. Therefore, new businesses can launch like Uber because of it. Or a regulation inflection during COVID, doctors

were able to prescribe medication virtually so that created telehealth. I think that we haven't gotten to the inflection point yet. But in the next 10 to 20 years, we're going to see an inflection point with a variety of cultural changes,

a cultural inflection, and potentially a regulatory inflection. I actually think there might be something there. We're going to see a lot of different opportunities and businesses, and just cultural change

due to the lack of focus. If we call this the focus or attention inflection,

And I had some ideas that I think could thrive there.

“But I wanted to hear-- have you noticed this in your life?”

Have you noticed that you are changing your-- like is there a household inflection going on? We're all getting dumber, you mean? No, well, you're combating this. Well, yes.

So the first thing to combat this over the weekend,

my wife was like, oh my god, did you see what Trump tweeted? And I was like, no. And then at our later, I said, then that conversation happens in our lateres. They were like, oh, you hear about the news anchor

whose mom got kidnapped, and I was like, no. And then there was like another third story. And again, I was like, no, don't know anything about that. And I think I've been totally fine about it. And I kind of realized this, like, I don't know.

You know, when you get happy that you're better than everyone else, that's kind of where it was. That was in that meaningful state of mind. I was in a smug smug smug smug smug smug smug. It has a smug problem, doesn't it?

Yeah. I went to the admissions shop, and share enough smug check. You did not pass the smug check. I did not pass the smug check, because I don't listen to the news. I don't watch the news.

And I just think about this. And I was like, dude, imagine, if every day you just woke up, and then instead of focusing on your life, you just said, distract me with everybody else's problems. And then the people will tell you about a problem happening.

3000 miles away, another one happening. 9,000 miles away, another one that happened 10 years ago. And one that might happen 10 years from now. And then you've got, your brain gets to think about all that shit, instead of what's going on in your life.

And that's essentially what it is if you're a regular consumer of the news. And the news is one of these things that, today, at least, there's like a half warning label on it, but at the warning labels like fake news.

It's like, you need real news, not fake news.

And actually, the answer is less news.

You just need way less news than you're currently consuming. You don't need to know the stock price right now. You don't need to know the Bitcoin price right now. You don't, you don't know what's happening in DC. You don't need to know any of that stuff.

“And I think, and some people will argue the exact opposite.”

They'll say, oh my God, you're so uncivically minded. And you really need to care about what's going on with other people in the world. And you're like, guys, it's not my ability to not watch news. It's the fact that I lied to get out of jury duty.

And I told them that my wife is a drug addict. And I had to be over the kids. That is why I'm not civically minded. This is not the correct argument. This is not the correct evidence.

I've given you the right evidence of that. I would say, on the whole, an overconsumption of news is-- I've seen this just one major league people have in their life. I guess the answer is not zero. But definitely not the set point that most people have.

It's like their thermostat is set to 88 degrees in their house and they're wondering while they're sweating all day. And it's just overconsumption of content in general, one of which is news. And then the other social media, I told you my challenge this year,

was I deleted all the social media off my phone. And so, well, that definitely changes things, right? Because I get back a couple hours a day of a time and attention. But it's not even really the hours. It's kind of the moments.

It's like, oh, like every time I open my phone, I type in X to open Twitter. It's weird, right? And all my phone has is the Xfinity app. And I'm like, I guess I could check my internet speed right now.

That's all I could do. It's like when you were a grown-up and you would sit down and you'd start reading the back of the cereal box or when you're on the toilet, you're like, read the shampoo and ingredients.

No, seriously. It happened to me all the time now. So I'm like, okay, what the hell am I gonna think about?

“And then I think about important things.”

I think about things that are really meaningful to me. Like what I'm gonna do that day. My time, my precious asset. I think about my kids and where they're at. And I think about, I start thinking about things

'cause I created space. And I think that space is the thing that most people are lacking nowadays. So yes, in my household, I felt this, especially this year because I deleted social media

and I was totally like anybody else, a social media addict, right? And it became more obvious than ever that you don't notice the addiction till you feel the withdrawal.

And that's the phase that I went in the first month

of this year as I deleted all these apps as the withdrawal of like, I keep checking my phone and just keep getting into the exfinity app, right? - I'm like a fact-checker addict. Like I get addicted to social media,

but then it's like someone will be debating something to see if you're like, like, how old's Tom Brady? You wanna meet him like, well, I'll just tell you right now. Oh, you know, like, we were debating you like, man, Trump's, you know, 76, that's so old.

- Right, actually, you know, it like you. (laughing) - Useless facts, yeah, like if I type, I right now for Instagram, I get Instacart and I get eye awkward, which controls my pool temperature.

- Like those are my options for, those are my options for distraction, for voluntary distraction from, you know, from the world. - So my prediction is that we are going to look at this problem the same way we look at obesity.

We're gonna like, look at this stuff

who can just put it down and just walk away.

You know, there are some people like, whoa, just stop, just don't do it. It's like, well, but like this process food is like, addicting and it triggers something in my brain and it makes it almost impossible.

“So I think that what we're gonna see is that”

this is gonna shift from what it is now to like either we ignore it or we think it's just like a small problem to, it's an environmental problem and there has to be changes. And I have a few ideas like, oh, it could be cool.

But I think that the, I think that this, you referenced another study before that I thought was fascinating, which explained that one again, the train classroom study.

I thought this was like a really important. Do you remember this one? It was like something about the noise from a train. And just that like a train went by and the classroom was lowering the score.

What was it again?

- Yeah, so basically the hypothesis was

do does noise interruption impact people's focus. And a study looked at something like two or three or 400,000 children in school and fourth grade and they looked at kids that were under an overpass of a train or nearby a train

and kids who weren't. And they found that the kids that read silently without the interruption of a train passing by retained information significantly higher. I don't remember the points, but basically

just that decibel level, even if it was intermittent it significantly impacted their ability to retain information that they were reading. - Right. But did you see the poveled der of tweet

he had on New Year's? Did you see this thing? Okay, so povel is the founder of Telegram, which is like one of the biggest messaging apps in the world.

He also started one of the biggest social networks in the world before that. It's like the Facebook of Russia.

“And does he really like the father of a hundred kids too?”

- Yeah, and he's built like a Greek God and he's brilliant and he's super rich. And he's just got a great jawline. He can't say enough good things about this guy. - Right, so I don't know if you know the story

when they asked him for access to all the data and they wanted a back door, he said no. And then they sent him like an official notice and he sent back an official response which was a dog wearing a hoodie,

like flicking off the camera and then he left the country. And then they took his social network but he was like fine, take it, but you're not gonna, I'm not gonna give you access. If he tweeted out this year he goes,

this year I wish you less, less information, less food, less entertainment, less communication, less stimulation. You already have too much of that and it stands in the way of your certainty,

health, sleep, and creativity, merry Christmas. And I just remember like that really stood out to me and I like it and obviously I agree with it but the part that I think is more interesting is this guy created one of the biggest messaging apps

and social networks in the world. He doesn't use his phone. So I don't know anything about that. What do you mean? He doesn't use his phone.

He doesn't have a phone. He's like if something needs to get to me like somebody will bring me the message if it's really important. And he's like I just don't use or look at my phone.

Like I think it's either at all or most of the day. He's just not looking at a phone. And he was like, and then you know Steve Jobs, he'll invent the iPad and the iPhone but at home his kids don't use it.

Zuckerberg, his kids aren't on social media. It's like, do as they do. It's not as they say that you should do, right? Like you guys should use this, but we're gonna do this. Like I don't think the, you know,

I don't know if what the executives at craft do or the food scientists at craft do but I don't think they're giving their kids craft mac and cheese every day, right? You should have it for sure.

Please buy it, but we're not gonna eat that shit. And I think that that's kind of where I stand with like the social distraction. Because there's obviously it's super hard, right? But, but it seems like the fight we're fighting is kind of what you're

you're bringing up here. Well, I personally think that yeah, I think it's the fight we're fighting, but I also think I'm just acknowledging that this is gonna be a trend. I think that what we're gonna see is that there's gonna be

like these classes where like the upper class, the rich people who don't have to be on their phone or computer all the time, they're gonna know that this is an issue. Sort of like, it's a little bit different now, but sort of like in the 90s and early 2000s

that whole foods was a luxury, so health food was a luxury.

“And so I think that's what's gonna happen here,”

which is sad, but I think that's just probably naturally how things are kind of tend to play out almost all the time. - We've seen this on the podcast. We've had guys who come on here, I remember there's one guy who owns an NBA team,

his billionaire. And we were like, are you doing this podcast from a phone? And he was like, yeah, I don't own a laptop. And then we were like, can you move the thing? And he's like, there was somebody, he's like,

I don't know what this is. He's like somebody set this up, I'm here, and then I'm leaving, and this is, I don't really even understand what this is. And yesterday, I started out yesterday, last week,

I did a call with a guy who's the richest guy of a country, not the biggest country in the world, but he's the richest guy of that country. So it's very wealthy, multi-billionaire,

probably worth $10, 20 billion dollars.

And he's like, we were in Zoom. And he's like, I'd like to show you this, but, and I know I can, but where do I go?

And I was basically tech support for this guy.

I was like, look at the bottom of Zoom. There's the thing called share. It's like a little square with a thing and he's like, okay. Oh, it says I need to have a different browser. And we were like, are you not using Chrome?

He's like, no, what is Chrome? (laughs) I was like, wow, he's like, yeah, usually people do this to for me. I've like, abstracted myself away from my computer,

from tech problems, from having to like set these things up and be like, you know, to do this stuff myself, to be hands on with it. And I feel like there's like, you're saying like a, almost like a wealth or a status thing here,

we're like, the wealthier you get, the more you're going to be able to abstract yourself away from some of these tools, right, from digital, you know, digital dopamine. - Yeah, yeah, I sure should think that's gonna happen,

“but I think that it will get to the masses eventually.”

I think that's just like how things work.

I think that, so let's tell me what you think about these two or three ideas I have. So I think that, have you ever done a VO2 Maxcess? - No. - Do you know what it is?

- Yeah, you put on like a Bane oxygen mask and you run on a treadmill, I think. - Basically yes. No different than like the combine idea you have. It's just like a way to measure how good is your heart?

You use it oftentimes to figure out where's your max heart rate and at like what level can you run comfortably and zone two for an extended period of time? - That's like why do you athletes use it? - So you exercise on a treadmill or bike

with increasing intensity and the mask you're wearing analyzes your oxygen consumption and CO2 production until you reach exhaustion, okay, gotcha. - And so I think that we can, I think here's a business idea. I think that we're gonna see like a VO2 Max test

for attention. It sounds hilarious, I'm telling you, I think this is gonna be a-- - That would be, you just said in a room and they see how long it takes you to like

it's like the marshmallow test. It's like how long it takes you to pick up the film. Have you ever felt like this is, I don't know exactly how to explain it, but have you ever felt like your nervous system being fried

where you're like, I'm just like my anxiety was too high, like I just, I been, I was in fighter flight too much, have you ever felt that feeling? - 100% yeah. - Do you ever get that looking at your phone?

- I get it all the time, I feel like I almost, it's what it should be is that you're in the normal state,

“which I think is called like parasympathetic”

or whatever, you never system.

And then you go into fire flight when there's like this extreme stimulus. I think for me, it's almost the opposite. I think for most people, it's probably the opposite in modern day, which is you're always running

with the sort of baseline anxiety, fight or flight type of response. And then you remind yourself to take a breath, go for a walk, put it away, and you sort of come down, off of it,

and you re-re-re-regulate yourself. And maybe I just live in San Francisco and I'm around Tiffany, like, kind of tech, you know, addicts, but I think it's almost, whatever the ratio is, it should be like 90, 10 or whatever.

I think it's almost the opposite, or it's 50. - Of course, it's terrible ratio. - And I believe that one of the best ways to lose weight is to weigh yourself every single day. What gets measured gets changed.

And I think that we could see, you can measure your nervous system. There are ways to measure, you know, you're resting heart weight rate. And like, for example, just like pulling up your phone,

your heart rate could go up. I mean, there are ways to do it. I don't know exactly all the ways,

“but I think that, like, there's this huge group of people”

doing like a pre-nobo, like all these like measuring things. And I think that we are going to see this for nervous system or attention. Like it'll be advertised towards, like,

let's see where you rank, or where you are, like in terms of attention. And we're going to tell you how fried you are. And then we're going to give you a plan and how to get un-fried, and you can come and measure it.

You can come and re-measure your body fat in six months. - Yeah, I think that's very true. When I've been coaching this basketball team, one of the things I find myself saying a lot to the guys is concentration is a skill.

Because the players, when they come into the gym, they think, you know, through the legs behind the back, you know, whatever. And they think that's the skill they need to do well in the game. And I'll tell them, like, how often do you do this move?

Pretty much never. That's not even your role on the team is to do moves like this to score. For the most part, what we want you doing is playing really, really, really hard

and concentrating on the task at hand, like being where you're supposed to be during the play, focusing on where the ball is versus your man, versus whatever, and we have some really talented guys who don't get in the game because we don't trust

their intensity or their concentration. And I've been trying to tell them, like, those two things are a skill. They don't sound like skills. They sound like effort, but effort to skill.

Like these, all of these things are skill. There's a guy on our team Sam, who's not the most talented, but his ability to just to ratchet up his intensity and then sustain that throughout the game. Like he's puked during three games this year.

He just throws a word, he plays so hard, he throws up

And that's the only time he comes out of the game

is to throw up, basically, and he goes right back in.

And I'm like, do you need a towel or some water? Like what's going on? He just goes straight back in, isn't credible. And I've realized that intensity, concentration, the ability to be maximally present.

These are not just kind of nice to have like soft things, they're hard skills. And you actually need to practice them and get better at them, and like what you're saying is, if it's a skill, then it can be measured.

And if it can be measured, it can be approved, right? And so on and so forth. - All right, I'll give you two quick more.

“I think we're going to see, remember, you know,”

what's it called, Cuman? - Cuman. - Yeah. - Cuman. It's like got the worst logo ever.

It's like a sad kid's face. - Yeah. - The higher the artist, they were like,

just observe and then draw what you see.

- Yeah. - I think we're going to see a Cuman for focus for kids. I think kids are going to impact, be impacted by this time where they're going to learn like exercises and stuff for focusing.

I think we're going to have like a Maria condo. But remember, Maria condo? I think we're going to have a Maria condo, you know, Maria condo was this, I think she was Korean lady, who was famous for organizing.

- Again, see you're saying her name wrong, by the way. - It's like Maria condo. - Maria condo. - That's like a Latina real estate agent. - Maria condo, her name is Maria.

- Oh, come on, yeah, I was a Korean lady and all I got wrong with the Maria versus the Maria. Maria, like come on, give me a break. (laughing) - All right, it wasn't as far as off as with that.

- Yeah. So like an influencer who's all about the tidiness of the mind. - Yeah, and they're going to like use their program to create coaches who are going to like come and talk to you and like get your shit.

- It makes sense, I think the probably the number one affliction for kids is like 80, 80, 80, ADHD, right?

“And then you have to medicate and all the stuff.”

It explains why you're bad at school when it's like, I don't know, I've seen that same kid focus at Fortnite and Roblox for four hour straight. So what's up with that? Like, perhaps there's just not that interested

or the school is not that interesting to them because when they're interested, they seem to lock in (laughing) or anything. - And also they've not used that skill

and they need to learn that skill because they're like, been fucking on TikTok and it's like swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. - Yeah, so I think you're absolutely right about that part of it.

I also think this is gonna happen for adults. So the idea of a gym today seems totally normal. But if you rewind, I don't know, 200 years or something like that, you're like, yeah, see what's gonna happen is we're gonna spend all day sitting

because we're gonna have this like box that we work on. You just use your fingers only to just type on the box. And then because our body's not gonna get any, we're not doing any actual work, the thing you think of as work today,

like agriculture, any sort of like lifting of objects. We're gonna go to this other box, this other place, and they're gonna just have weights on the ground. And you'd be like, what do you mean weights? It's like, we're just like a heavy thing

and you're gonna pick that up and put them on the ground. - Yeah, you can do it 10 times for three sets and then they're just gonna go home. - And you're gonna be like, what? Why would they do this?

- That's crazy, right?

“And it's like, well, that's what happened.”

Basically, the more we got away from doing manual labor, we then created this demand, this need for stimulating our bodies with weights. - Well, I think the same thing's gonna happen for intellectual stuff, right?

Like, already people, I could even think about this, or I could just ask chat to you to think about this.

It's just outsource the idea of critical thinking.

So I think there's gonna be a place where you go. That's essentially the gym for your mind. It's gonna place you go with a bunch of puzzles of what's the thought of experiments and riddles and shit like that.

And it's gonna be a gym for the mind. And it's gonna be where you go to keep your mind active because most of your thinking is now done by the AI chip in your brain, right? That seems like if you fast forward 50 years,

either we're just gone, or we have to come up with some way where we're gonna exercise our mind because so much thinking is gonna be done by digital intelligence. - And the last thing is, Justin Meyers

came on our podcast and told us about this business that he has or he helped fund, I forget his association, but it was basically Justin Meyers for the listener. He's like our buddy who's like a health freak

and he has an amazing company called Lightwork. I gotta give him a shout-out. - Yeah. - Lightworkhome.com. - Okay, what is this?

- My wife did it, they come to your house and they kind of inspect it to figure out where things are not healthy and where they are. And so they looked at some of the basic stuff like, do you need different air filters in your AC

which everyone does, but then they did other stuff. Like for example, they educated us like, I have a Wi-Fi router in my bed stand next to my head and they're like, check this out. The EMF is like coming to your head right here

or like, I was like, I didn't know that. - That's why as he wears a hat right now that says Midwest trash on his head. - Or they'll be like, look at your pillows what they're made out of.

Like you're sleeping on plastic or for us, it was like, we need the more plants in our house

Like it was like a bunch of stuff like that.

It's pretty interesting.

“- Did you end up like, here's my fear with this, right?”

I do this. And then anytime somebody audits my thing and tells me where something's bad, I'm immediately like, the sale is done.

It's like, well, all right, is this a $100 fixed?

$1000, $10,000 fixed are $100,000 fixed. What's the damage here? So did you end up doing a bunch of changes? - My thing was mostly like reorganizing or small fixes. I'm also renting so like there's not like,

I'm not gonna like change the paint.

“But I think that we're gonna see what he's doing”

but for like digital products.

- It feels to me like today that something we should do but nobody wants to do. And at some point you're right, the inflection, it'll tip, it'll go that way. - It hasn't happened yet, but it will.

- I'm there yet. - All right, is that it? - That's it. - That's a pun. ♪ I feel like I could rule the world ♪

♪ I know I could be what I want to ♪

“♪ I put my mouth in it like a day's on ♪”

♪ On a bold less travel ♪ ♪ Never looking back ♪ - All right, my friends, I have a new podcast for you guys to check out. It's called content is profit.

And it's hosted by Luis and Fanzi Camillo. After years of building content teams and frameworks for companies like Red Bull and Orange Theory, Fitness, Luis and Fanzi are on a mission to bridge the gap between content and revenue.

In each episode you're gonna hear from top entrepreneurs and creators and you're gonna hear I'm sure their secrets and strategies to turn their content into profit. So you can check out content is profit wherever you get

your podcasts.