Episode 469 | Ray Daniels

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We are back with a new episode and we are joined. We got another guest.

“Probably a guest that I think we both been wanting to sit down and talk to for a minute.”

Yes, this is probably the most excited I've been for a guest in a minute. And I don't mean that a bad way to our other guests. Yeah, no, everyone's great. Everyone every guest is the greatest guest you've ever had. This is somebody I've argued with.

Like, I've yelled at the phone. Like, I've argued with this person. I've never met him. I've raised my eyebrows. What are you just saying?

What are you just saying? But he's one of the guys that I respect because he's actually done it. He has knowledge in the game. An or music manager. Yeah, he's work with anybody.

Everybody lives old Beyonce, Rihanna, Future, you know, he's an elite chopper. Yeah, he's one of the guys that I respect. But when he says certain things, I'd be like, "Yo, I'm one of the raven." I want to lead chopper. I want to lead chopper.

I can't have the talking for the whole line because then it comes across the way. So today we are joined by Raid. Yeah, we did. Thank you. But by far, the last year, some of my favorite content that's coming out of this music podcast in space.

Because I do feel like this got oversaturated the way everything has. Yeah. So it's very tough to find people that are just starting in this game where it's like refreshing. Yeah. Okay.

This person's gonna say it. That's not so bad. We should have did you two years. I'm like, bro, I wasn't ready. Yeah.

I had to earn this. I feel like I earned this seat. Like I feel like when I did other shows, it's because who I am and what I've done and I got relationships with everybody. So I can cheat my way into certain rooms.

But it's those rooms that people who don't know you. It's like I found you online, but I respect what you're doing. So I appreciate that. And you want more brothers.

I know that.

“No, listen, your brothers are my family brothers.”

So when they tell me, when they tell me you, they're family, I was like,

that makes sense. Because from our space, it takes a lot to be to do what we do. Like, and go outside. And like give your opinion, right? It's hard to do this.

So when I seen you, I'm like, oh, he talks like he doesn't give a fuck. He has to come from something. Yeah. He comes from something. He talks like, I don't care if they call me.

Like, I don't give a fuck. Like, I was standing on it. Yeah. And even on top of that, because I mean, despite what podcast fans and listeners think, our opinions are not bought based off our relationships.

I've worked in the major label system. You have as well. Yeah. Mall is from fucking hip hop royalty family. He's royalty.

Yeah. The amount of calls I have gotten with people I've worked with. Like, okay, you said it's not. Yeah. Or get mad at you when you start saying shit on the microphone.

Yeah. I don't think it's because it's very relaxing of like, you know, we work together for 10 years at universal. Okay. Yeah.

I'm not going to say nothing disrespectful, but I'm always going to have my opinion.

Have you ran into that at all? You know, this is all you have.

“This has been the hardest journey for me.”

And I feel like I'm just getting into the place where I'm having fun. Like, like, I got online and started talking out of desperation. Like, it wasn't like I wanted to. Like, if I didn't write this letter, I'd say, I'm not going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down.

I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'm going to write it down. I'll be outside.

Then you start realizing, you all don't know how to pick. People don't know about the major labels.

When they sign you, they're betting a million dollars off-top.

Even if they get you half a million, they have to commit to videos, spending, travel. They're betting on the right off. Even if it's a right off, they still know they've got to spend. My point is, if they have 100 million allocated, they only can spend a certain. It's not that they can sign 500 things and see what works.

Or it's not that they can say, we're going to give instead of giving 100 artists a million. We're going to give 1000 artists. It's like, what? You're making it bigger. It's supposed to be this is an exclusive thing we're in.

So once I started realizing, we will let anything in. Anybody in. And it was like, like, I feel like I'm that nigger. Like, I feel like I've earned the right to beat that guy. So when I see, when I come in a room and I got to sell you to an art myself to an artist,

that's weird to me. Yeah. Like, I knew who shake was. Right. I knew how it was.

I knew who Kaiser was. You had to know the players to be in the game. But now you don't have to. How you got to do is make some noise online. And now they're treating you like you're the next big thing.

And you feeling it, but you don't even know. They just need that record. Yeah. They don't have no, they don't know what to do with you after they get that record. And they know, you need the record.

You need a record. They all need the record. So they like, if I get it, that means I'm hot. The record don't have to work. Right.

I don't have to make no money. But the fact that I got the deal tells the company he's valuable because he can go get a deal. So when I suddenly chop it, it was like a huge moment. Because it was like, how did you get that?

You be baby. How did you do that? I'm like, I just stayed in it. And I just know what I'm just a human. I know how to close it.

Like, I know what I want to hear. I know what I heard. I know what the Buffalo is told me to make me say, OK, he's off for 400. He's off in 500. He's off in this.

But I like him the most. I know what that was he said. So I just, yeah. So I be a human bro. Just fuck with people.

I love you. Yeah.

“I think even like what you're doing, you know, being a former VP of A&R, we've always talked”

about the Irves, Dames, like those types of execs, not existing anymore. Of course, we have QC, we have Orlando. We have, yeah. Great execs don't get me wrong. But not ones that are forward facing, like, if you could imagine if Irven

Dame had Twitch in 2001.

I don't know if they'd make music anymore.

But do you think that that's kind of missing where there isn't

“opportunity for that exec to come back as the salesman in the face of a label?”

Because, because Irven and Dame were entertaining. They're both, they were both recipes. Geniuses in their own, right? Yes. On a marketing side and business side.

But they were also, you couldn't keep your eyes off them. Like you're dancing in puffing clueless, puffing clueless. I want to ask y'all something. I have a statement that I want to make to y'all. I believe that the moment on backstage when Dame cursed out Kevin

Lows, that's when the black exec died. Because everybody is before us. Everybody agree with it. Let me out. Everybody from that point forward.

If you're watching Dame and Kevin, I know everybody who died. I was with it, wanted to be Dame, which meant you wanted to have your own side of building and it became lame to be in the building. It was like you will suit you lame. So we almost lame myself out of the building.

And now the lame's out of the power. So I think that, so to me, it's like you got to understand. A cool niggas, not intimidated by another cool niggas walking in the room. Like I actually want more cool niggas around. You know, sure shit, I don't know.

But when you're not a cool niggas, cool niggas intimidate you. You sure. Like Niggas, I remember me in adult. I knew it was different when I signed this kid 2K baby.

First thing he asked me, not do I know Timbling.

I know for real, do you know Gary Vee? I'm like, what? He was like, bro, can you get me in the room with Gary Vee? And I'm like, why the fuck do you want to talk to Gary Vee? Wait, the fuck, do you think he knows more than me?

Trying to be in the room. I mean, for me, it was just, it was interesting because, you know, when the art, you get to that point, your career was someone says, yo, I want to work with Timbling. I'm like FaceTime Timbling, my niggas.

I work with your man. You get those relationships. You take pride in that. So I'm like, who do you want to work with? And you say a name on my what?

Yeah.

“Well, it like, that's what you want to do.”

So you start understanding like the world is different. You rather talk to Gary Vee. And then that made me say, imagine if Gary Vee was the president of a label, a major. Every young artist will want to sign to him.

So I was like, I'ma be Gary Vee. I'ma be to do that gives all the information away. And yes, I can get paid for a lot of this. But 95% is going to be bullshit. But that 5% that listen.

That's like, I heard you like me with name. When I see Damian, your bigs, I'm like, bro, y'all raised me. When I talk, I want y'all to be proud of me. Like when I said something, damn called and cursed me out. I was like, no, I'm like, this is, this is damn that.

You let me through FaceTime nigga, like I made it in life. Like I'm family with these niggas now. So I just wanted to be accepted by them. But these new guys, they don't care what y'all think. They don't care what I think.

They're empowered by some of who's saying fuck what they think. Do what you want. And that's why the game is fucked. But I think the same way artists now have to pivot to the times as far as being personalities and being more than just a musical artist.

Yes, even what Leore put out with the pivot with you too. When the letter you put out the other day, like artists, I hate to say,

“guys, you have to be more than just this now different times.”

I think executives have to be that as well. Like just as from LVR and I've been telling, go start a podcast. You have the craziest person out there ever. And you actually know what the fuck you're talking about. Imagine a shark tank if it was nerve-dame bigs in that regard where Mr.

Wonderful was the face of every product that he puts out. Yeah. Mark Cuban as that as well. I think there's an opportunity right now for execs to have that. It's just execs are super corny now.

Yeah. So they don't really exist. But if you get someone like a sicker more that could be on mic all the time, and actually be the face of everyone that he signed. Yeah.

Now we're having a different conversation. Cause sicker more is really an arc sicker more really cares about this. Yeah. I remember working with sick when he came to Epic and I was he was doing Travis. And he was he was he was he was say something and it would be like it was a slam dunk,

but it was so small like I got a house. Travis going to work, Metro's coming and we're going to go. Let's go. And you know, that's not exciting normally. Normally it's like I don't care.

Right. Tell me what happened after you made the hit. But he was lean and then so much that I was like, you could tell he was one of he didn't he wasn't a label guy. He was with them and he worked at the label.

That's what sick of was. Yeah. He gets that like you have started that way. Yeah. Same way.

I'm with the artist like yeah. I was with the label because I had to give the late. I had my money came from giving the label a hit. I can give you a hit. But if he the label, he ain't paying for it.

I don't give a damn how excited we are. He has to pay for it. I knew the whole. I knew all the labels in the exec. So I came up in that world.

What year's were you at? Epic 2013 to 2015. I did. I worked with. So I did the Sierra Jackie album.

So I did. I bet you start loving me. I turned out in and I did the future. Honest album. I just want to take you out and show you.

I did those two albums. Almost other things. But yeah. 13.

I asked that question because one of my first gigs was was shot.

My head deaf chair.

Yeah.

“Where you there the day that Bobby Schmerter was standing on top of a desk.”

Rapping to all those white people.

I wasn't in the office because I wasn't in the York base. But right after the deal got done. It was a big issue because, you know, got. It was a lot of stuff to have with that. But Bobby Schmerter.

I know you know like. I shot. It was one shot. Yeah. Exactly.

Shot money trying to sign him. Yo got he wants some. Yep. It's this whole thing. He's in LA's office.

We don't give a fuck. Who gets him as long as Epic gets him. Yeah. So we got a sign. So I was I was there.

That was a. That was a. So we got a sign. So I was. I was there when the.

The studio got raided when he got arrested. He's one of the greatest executives. Like.

As a black man came up in his business.

So yeah. Shot money was one of those greats. And to see him not in a president's job is like a travesty to our world. That's like. I wasn't there with people like him.

He's a power sitting on this couch. But what's a. Yeah. But I want to ask though like what did. Like what did.

Like what did y'all think? A one that video went viral with Bobby. I was working at that label, especially as a black executive. Even you write in the white executive letter. Yeah.

Seeing that go viral on the whole internet going.

“Why is Bobby sort of standing on top of this fucking desk in a conference room?”

Yeah. Rapping to all these fucking white people on a lunch break. I'll tell you that was the way you got the business excited for you. There was no internet. So you know the story of Nelly Nelly was signed.

He got out of them. They're trying to get universal to focus on it. He flies the same lunatics in Nelly. Up plays a song in the mean. They come into the conference room.

Take it over. I think that vast necessary like so that during that time. You need to stand on a table. If you didn't stand on a table that meant that you ain't ready for the big stage. And the minds of the label.

Because that's the stage in a room. We all stand and you stand on a table. You take advantage. So yeah. That was a little crazy.

Yeah. That was a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy.

I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy.

I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy.

I'm just going to be a little crazy. I'm just going to be a little crazy. Because they, like, I don't know how Ray felt before was Bob and the fuck out his head. I know he liked it. So sometimes you got to, and that's another tactic that we're doing in music business.

Sometimes you just stare at the camera. You stare at the artist in the eye. And you sit like, when I, and if they look away, I know you don't believe in what you stand. Like so it's like, practice that we use. It's like, we're going to stare at you all of us and see if you break.

Because that's usually how you break. Usually nobody usually gets in front of an audience. And it's 20,000 people that know the words. Usually it's 30 people. No one knows you.

You've got to go out there. Hopefully make an impression. So for me, that's a part of it. All of it is a part of it. You've got to play the game.

Yeah. I mean, I've been in plenty of conference rooms where similar things happen. Bobbi is at that. You know, he was a young kid from Flatbush. That's how he acts.

Like, I don't think he was doing the shuckin' in job and think. I could see why the internet thought that. But that is how they bring in new new talent. I can tell you. I can tell you.

I can tell you a story, epic story. By the way, a shot at the LA read because he taught me what showbiz was. So we're turning in Sierra's Jackie album. So this is Sierra. She's a big deal.

We have the whole label come meet Sierra. Like, if you're a new artist, fuck you. Like, you see, everyone has an album. Everybody stopped for two hours. So we in a playback.

Imagine we killed it, bro. Like, me and Sierra left like yo.

“And I never forget this year's like a scene out of a movie.”

We walking out of the meeting and everybody stays in. I'm walking my artist out. I know I gotta go in. And when we walk out, I see Janelle Monet. And what's my man name?

I'm a classic man. Dejanna. Dejanna. Dejanna. And they all dressed like Michael Jackson in 80s.

Like suits and shit with like these dressed up suits. Like army sergeants. I'm like, what's going on? And they was like, you need to go back in, right? We about to do a showcase.

And they came in. And when that fucking, he had the elevator came on. And he stepped up the fucking chair. Like like a gentleman, he jumped on the table. Came with his cane.

Play that shit on the table. I'm a classic man. nigga, LA told me after it was done. That's how you get a label excited. You'll see her did good.

But that's how you get a label excited. You make them jump on a fucking table and make them people see you. And I was like, and by the way, look what happened with that record. Like we knew we had a hit day one because I already presented it. So it's, it's, you're right, bro.

But it's also a necessary evil. I need to see if you can do this because you're going to have to do this.

And if I give you a million dollars today.

And I don't check to see if you're going to do this. It's going to be pie on my face, right? I'm like, he went, nobody likes him. He doesn't perform. He doesn't work.

And he's like, ah, I knew better. Because he didn't do it for me.

And we was talking off Mike about this. The talent level now though. And the industry. But it seems to be like, it's an afterthought. It's almost like, no, just be fans. So be popular first.

We can, we can sprinkle talent around you.

“But you have to have somebody that has personality.”

Somebody that people just want to click and watch. Like, is it more important to just be famous now in the labels and people like yourself and go, Like, okay, we can sprinkle talent. We can bring in the right producer and make this a thing. Well, I'm of the honest, what you just described has been the industry for the last five years.

For sure. And that's why we don't have any superstars. Because these guys are not really there to get. These guys are not really there to be like Michael Jackson, which is algo. They're there to get rich.

By any means necessary. I remember one day I was talking to Chopper's manager and I asked him, I was like, yo, bro, we got to get a record out. He was like, we have the number one stage in the mark. I'm like the number one stage.

Like, you know, like, that's the shit.

You, like, I'm like, I never thought I would hear that.

Yeah. I'm trying to tell you, let's put our more music. And you like, nah, we got the number one stage. We enjoy what we at. Right.

artists are treating themselves like spokesmen and just selling whatever they can sell. If it's music cool, but if it's this shirt, and I can make 10 million doing that, as long as I got rich, I won. And that's not the artist. Lauren Hill was sick as she was no top. Right.

You know what I'm trying to say? Like these, Michael Jackson would be depressed if he wasn't the biggest in the world. Like, I remember, if you Michael Jackson's documentary, bad documentary, no, not the bad. And Michael was calling the CEO of the label, Mark, um, not cares about, but the guy, forgot, what the, what the yet in the coffin, and Michael would be calling him saying, we're not number one yet.

What are we going to do? We're not number one. Think about that. Yeah.

Michael fucking Jackson from Thriller, 100 million his calling his label had like, we're not number one.

What are we doing to get number one? That's why it worked. These artists don't care about number one. They care about money. I'm rich.

Also the labels care about money, too. And I think a lot of that is the labels is like, listen, we don't care how we make this money. We don't care about the artists after the artist is done here. Like, we want to make money.

And I think that a lot of the, you know, the problems or the lack of great musicians that we have is because the mindset changed in both the labels as well as the artists. But do you, would y'all not say that, stay right there. But would you not then blame it on the shareholders, right?

“Because like, if you invest in the music, you have to know you invest in the music.”

They'd be an investment in music and don't want to take no else. Who the hell do you know you're watching this shit? Oh, no. What, what P&L sheet has music on it? You can't hear a P&L sheet.

That's what they care about. That's what they care about. That's what they care about. Even we talk about the big three as far as major labels. Big three is now with streaming services with movies and they're just regurgitating every

Marvel movie that ever happened. Yeah. They don't give a fuck about film. You think they give a fuck about music, there's a P&L sheet. Yeah.

Yeah. But we in trouble. And on top of that, you should have sound fucked up, sorry to cut you off. It did start to when you had people hold, I'm a hustler. Just so happen.

I know how to rap. I'm not, whole of the love's music. You know that's a music nerd at the end of the day. But his goal at the end of the day was not for his love of music. Hold trying to get the fuck out the projects.

Did you like it that money? As he fucking should. Jay-Z was trying to get the fuck out of McComb, Georgia. Like, they wouldn't do that if it didn't lead to a financial situation. Now, they happen to be extremely talented at what they do.

These kids are just looking at the lickluck. That's what I'm telling you. Everybody's going. You're doing it. Like, Jay came from the greatness code.

Jay thought, Jay cared what big thought. Jay cared what not thought. He cared what jazz thought. That's what made him great. These new, sexy red doesn't give a fuck with Colin with Lauren.

Thinks about how music. She don't care what Nikki thinks about how music, because I'm rich. And that's the problem. You're going to get rich, but there has to be a respect part to it. Whereas I want the respect of that peer.

“So that's why even me, like you start enough saying, we saw this guy, it's like, that's”

respect to me. That means I heard someone speak like my peer. So I want to talk to you rather than like, who the fuck is this guy? Where did he come from? So a lot of it is just, you know, putting it out and hope they find it.

But like, oh, people don't care no more. That's my problem. Like, you know, can't wait with your idols think about what you're doing right now. Right.

I mean, the goal was always that no matter who it was, again, back to the Jay example.

Jay is so smart. If he didn't know he was one of the best rappers, he wouldn't have looked at that as a lick. Now the link doesn't need talent. Do you, do you?

Like, GZ had to kind of learn how to even though he's in the South. But I think if you compare right now to GZ, GZ is the crazy, GZ is not as far as lyricism goes compared to what's going on now. And his catalogue is so much better than everything that he does.

That's what it took to be in the market and the market doesn't call for that. But this goal was the exact same. GZ and hold was trying to get rich, but it's just trying to do. Is it just in our culture, though, because I don't think this happens outside hip hop and outside of, you know, I think, as you think people aren't for the love of stocks, I think

it's our culture because our culture is, it's the poorest, right? Our culture came from poor people not having anything, saying let's create something. So I think that hip hop is our extract. I guess how we can make money. And like, my mother will be driving school buses right now for $2,500 a month if it was

for hip hop. If it was for her son having an opportunity, a hip hop that retired her in 2012. So to me, hip hop is our savior, but we're allowing it to be a joke and that's my issue. It's like, I don't mind a joking artist, but can we get some real?

But you can't get real if you don't have real execs in the seats. And these people can't tell you. And there's a few, like, just a little more Larry Jackson dash over a, a, a, a gethman. There's a few that are really good, a lando, great lando is like, a lando, if it's some shit happen, I don't give a fuck, if it's in the third world country, a lando is going to

pull up with his jury on in a Rolls Royce and he's going to close it.

“That's what makes him a great executive, right?”

He's like, it's music. Yeah. And you got, you have to understand that part. You don't have that partner more. It's like, like, I remember having to play a record for LA to get it out.

Now, you don't have to play a record as it get it out. You don't just put it out, you need to, you need, it's, it's $20. All right. Three dollars. That's some places.

Like, just put it out free at some places with take out money on the back end. So I think the, they made it the entry so low that everybody's coming in, but I think it's fading. I think we passed that. I think that the music is about to get back to what it was because the goal rush is

over. When the last of my TikTok artist me, like, was it jello? Jello's probably the last TikTok artist that had a bit of a war that I had, like, and looking, having with that.

So I was like, we TikTok, no, it was a great deal, 7 million.

8 million. 8 million. People thought that was great.

“No, I thought it was a great deal for Dev Jam, because I think they were cooped”

in two months. No. Hell, no. On their investment. Oh, y'all outshot mine.

No. That ain't great. This is why I think it's crazy. You're saying this because you're 10 million. You're one of a few people that understands streaming that is on YouTube talking

about the shit. You don't think that they made their money back in the span of the months that that jello had. You know what? It depends on how big they market share was.

Let me get an example. Let's say if they will point 8 market share in the jello record took them to 1.1. That point 3% jump is worth more than $8 million. You're right about that but it's just the way streaming is paid out. So that's another thing.

We're not rewarding the greatest, we're just like, it don't matter. It's like, I made money. I keep my job. And it's like, I remember L.A. told me he was telling me about Clive.

And he was like, Ray, I've never had the number one artist in the world.

And I'm like, Nick, you sound beeper. He was like, yeah, they were huge, but Clive had Whitney. And you know, I'm like, I know Whitney was big, but to me in the 90s, I think Rihanna's just as big. He was like, you have no idea.

L.A. doesn't come from the world where having a hit and making money makes him happy. He would be sick if he had a hit and he was making money. He needs a superstar, but that's what he fees off. But L.A. is one of like the last, um, music men. They did get presidents.

So like, this bad. And yeah, shout out Steve Bartos, I'm like, everyone that's involved, Lucien, whatever. They're not music. Like, L.A. you're you're talking a foreign language right now. Yes.

I hear you, but not jello with sinks made that back in two fucking months.

“Probably did, but here's the thing, what happens with somebody else comes in a row?”

What a deaf jam deal. What happens with the next person comes in a row in a viral record? Well, you think he's going to tell deaf people.

No, in person, well, I don't think he got, no, 8 million, 13, let me, I think they put

it up against something and they made it back on what, what they put up. I think he made a little bit of change, but what they put against the loan that they had. Yes, for sure. The way streaming pays out, if he helped their market share, jump a few points, it's worth over 8 million.

Like, if Spotify made 300 million, they got to pay you 150 million and it's based on market share. So that means if it's 100 million, you get 800,000 deaf jam. That's what it was worth. Yes.

So I'm like, that's what he did it for, but here, I want to let that number get out. I can't believe they let that number get out. That's what they should do. Yeah. What are you with?

You gave Joe 8 million. I won nine. Right. I mean, to me that that's marketing, I think, respectfully, anyone that does like a now so those numbers and shit stupid, just because the IRS, to me that's marketing

with, all right, you guys in the bidding war that was for Jello, you started the bidding war when you already had to deal with him for marketing purposes. You're putting that number out to make Jello seem bigger than he really is. In that regard. Now it's like, oh, no.

Maybe I got to pay attention. This guy gave you some information. I don't even know I'm supposed to say this, but I'll fuck it.

That was the biggest deal in Warner records history in the Atlantic, not for new artists. And the way to deal with set up, we got, we didn't get his masters because he had a partnership with United Masters. So we had to income. Yeah.

Yeah. I think nine months in, we got a $3.7 million check from United Masters. Now, think about how big Chapa was compared to how big one song from Jello is. It's like, I don't think people understand the numbers like, and by the way, United Masters might pay differently compared to the major labels, how to get streaming, but I know we

were cooped. I ain't gonna, I was like, man, we fuck, I was like, I guess we're gonna get that back. I mean, Analy Chopper's not my type of ship, but I would guess he's somewhere in the 20 million as far as value of which he would bring to a label. But he probably makes, he probably makes one or about 15 to 25 million years.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

“Just with the back catalog that he has already, that's what I mean, never take a job again.”

That's what I can't do what I did again. I can't, like, I ain't been at that company in four years and I'm still making 10 to millions of dollars. And I don't get no royalties, no none.

I'll never help somebody get rich again and not have something on the back end for me.

So all right, here's my change of business model. This may be a quick nerd segment. Oh, let's go. I like nerd moments. Yeah.

I agree that you should be paid way more. Okay. Hey, stop that. If you bring someone in and they're bringing in this amount of money to a company, I'm with you.

I've seen a lot of ANRs try to put themselves in splits. Oh, hey, that they didn't fucking do. They're in pub, that they didn't fucking do. And to me, I hear you as an ANR. You should make more money if you bring in someone that is generating this type of income

for a company. But I've seen ANRs do some fucking wild shit. Oh, wait, you have 10% of this record. Why? Because you, because you showed up that day and transcribed the lyrics, no, because they tell

they because they tell, they say I produced it. You ain't producing a fucking thing on here. This is what they do. Roy and Molly, somebody y'all can get on the album. You ain't nobody.

I want 10% if you make the album. Me bringing them in the room. I'm supposed to, they, everybody want to work with them. Me bringing you in the room. I'm not.

So I'm bringing you in the room. I'm going to need a percent.

“I think that's whack. I think that's dumb, and I always say the person remembers it.”

They say the acts were gifts, but the tree remembers the person that you took, that

little 10% from, will always remember you, the motherfucker that took from me when I,

in my worst moment, so I hate that, but it's a big thing, bro. And it's just like nobody has a prop. It's like nobody's saying that it's like, I can't believe this. I just, like, I, I came up, you put your mama name, like, I ain't going to put my name. I'm going to put my mother name, they ain't going to know who that is, but they just put

name name, like it's like damn, yeah, no shame, yeah, because my, my, I'm afraid of an artist, like my biggest fear, my biggest fear is the artist trying to call me out, because when the artist calls you out, you're done in this business. Are you done? Yes.

Name somebody. Name somebody to recover from a real artist calling them out. Can you give me some examples? I don't think Irre recover after 50 caught him out. You're bugging.

You think Irre recovered after 50 caught him out? Irre, like he got back to the same, Irre got after 50 caught him out. No, I think a lot of that had to do with the trial with was supreme and hit, and then being falsely accused of money laundering, I'm not, I'm not, I get none of that. But what I'm, when my point is still in the association that got caught up in, yeah.

But that was just the, that was the, that was the perfect store. The movie perfect store, when three storms come together as one, that's so right. 50 was coming at one point, at some point, when you peak, you're going to start to fall, murder ink owned everything. There's only one way you can go after that on top of that, all of our assets are being

frozen, because I'm being falsely accused of never given pretty money, except to do a

fucking movie, which is legal. I don't understand when that became illegal to give someone money to fund a movie.

“So I think it was the perfect storm of those three things of the peak, just hitting”

its peak and starting to fall as everyone does, the same way 50, 50 hit a peak and fell musically. Everyone hits that. Why do I work? So I don't know what you're saying.

Let me ask you a question. What's Mary J. Blow's husband name, ex husband name, oh God, he's a king, what's the name? He's a key door. He's a key door. He's a key door.

Can do, can do, can do, can do, can do, can do, can do, can do, can do, can do, can do, can't manage anything now because Mary don't fuck with him. Yeah, but, well, Mary don't fuck with you, you're not on the island of what you're done. But you've got to pick it.

You've went for loops in there. You'd be the only man that gets alemonia out of a case in the history of the court system. That's true. Yeah, shut the fuck up and sit over there. But the table, but I'm telling you, was able to sit at?

Yeah.

JZ table, when you sit in that, you're done.

He can't come around. One artist said, he can't come around, you're done. Pastor Troy did his masterpiece, he killed them, he killed no limit. He killed no limit. I don't.

“But again, I think that's more of a perfect storm of what was going on with no limit.”

I think Pastor Troy killed no limit. I'm a lot, bro. I was an Atlanta. I was there. I was there.

I thought I was just no limit soldier. I thought I would, no limit soldier. And then when Pastor Troy said, tell P, down south Georgia boys, it's ready for war. I was living in Georgia. I'm like, man, forget themselves, I'm a down south Georgia boy.

It's like an artist can change how people see people. Oh yeah, 100%. The biggie did it to Kwame, the fucking polka dots is like, what's one person that's new says, yo shit is, oh, you are. JZ did it to T-Pane, death of auto tool.

T-Pane. - Great, great, great, good, nice check though. - He just sold that cat a lot.

- No, no, no, no, no, I have to get pushed back.

- Let's go, this is insane. And this is whole ventures. - No, we are the most Jay-Z bias podcast of all time. - There's one thing that Jay-Z did not end. The death of auto-tune was a resurrection.

Jesus Christ walked again after that death. Auto-tune is still here and it's the number one thing in rap right now. - Jay-Z didn't kill shit. Pain, he did not kill T-pain.

He did not kill, he did not kill where in Tim's anymore. That's the only two things Jay-Z tried to kill and didn't kill. - Jay-Z killed, let me tell you. - He might not have killed Jay-Z. - Auto-tune, he did kill Jay-Z.

- He did kill where in Tim's. He might not have killed Auto-tune, but he killed the face of Auto-tune. Too much tea pain and like when he said, like tea pain even admitted it,

like his money were from here. - Here we are, here we are, here we are. - There, hurt pain, no, it didn't hurt him.

“- I think I don't think tea pain is horrible.”

- How was that the case when you said death of Auto-tune and within the same months, your number one artist ever under you. Kanye West, who was an icon, stopped rapping and did a fucking tea pain album.

- What, eight o'clock? - He did the album, he did the album because his mother died. And the one thing that he ate there was eight o'clock so hard breaks is that big. - Because he killed his Auto-tune 'cause his mother died?

- No, I think that he was emotionally he went to sing. And I think he was just trying some, I think his mother died and triggered him to say, I'm gonna go, 'cause my father died and played

a huge role in me. Like, when Delta called me back after 9/11, I went back, my father died. And I was like, man, Bill Cosby was my father. I wonder if I will be working at Delta.

It was like, death when you use a parent, it changes how you see things. So I can see, I can see that happening and being like, I respect that point and I think that's a separate point that you're deflecting from.

- Okay, let me see. - I don't know what to tell you. - I don't know what to tell you. - I love this shit, let's go. I'll tell you that not kill Auto-tune whatsoever.

I said he killed, he might not have killed Auto-tune. I'll give you that 'cause he was still using it. I think he killed the face of Auto-tune, which was T-Pane. And I think T-Pane was saying,

I think T-Pane was sitting in the chair. He'll say, "Hey, hey, fuck my business up." Oh, no, no, no, for sure. There was a few months where that was the case. Do I came out in what year?

- Oh, nine. - Oh, nine would be my guess? T-Pane had a number one album after it. - And he still had, he still had bays. People were fucking with him.

So, you know, T-Pane, he panicked and hit with anything. Like, you know, black folks were fucking fucking with you, and that booty. - I don't know, no nigga like that, but like white people was like jamming that shit.

- So three rings came out around the same time. - Okay, let's go. - That should happen. And now, we're going through Chopton screw with ludicrous. - Chopton screw.

- That record was fucking huge. True. Can't believe it with Lil Wayne. - Oh, okay, that came out after. - This was the same time that DOA was happening.

- But you look at you saying, no, you say it. - What are we talking about? But you say, when you say little Wayne and ludicrous, that's like saying, he was accompanied by the sun. Of course, it's gonna shine.

Like, like, when I'm talking about it, when he tried to go for himself. Like, we don't mind you auto tuning on there on there here and there, but when you try to feed us auto tune at the JZ said, this is the Def auto tune.

And you know, everybody looked up the whole, so everybody's like, whoa, maybe let me stop tilting time. - This is a bad joke, he keeps it. Then he Charlie Kirk the whole thing. He killed the face and the whole movement rose.

- I grew with that. - I'm not mad. - Everyone did auto, it's like, all right. If he killed T-Pane's career, cool. - Yes.

- Let's let's let it happen. - He killed him at the moment. - Everyone kept auto tune after that. - Oh, you're awesome. - That was a little bit too much.

- T-Pane was the only person that couldn't use it.

“That's why I'm like, T-Pane spoke today.”

- Yeah, he said he's like, bro, I'm the only person that can't use it. I remember he said, usher came to him on a plane. And he was like, you kill R&B, he's like, what the fuck did I do? All of a sudden I was a hero, all of a sudden I got stars

telling me I'm fucking up the world. Like, he's just going for it. - Yeah, I was just making music. - And if you looked at really killed music, Pane shouldn't be like--

- You're not gonna ever try to sing, bro.

That was the first time I've got to sing it.

- We're not gonna sing it.

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Search for I-Heart TikTok Radio, make it a preset and stay connected all day. - So Ray, you, one of my one of the things that I definitely wanted to talk to you about. - Let's go.

- Where's your stance on Drake's top tier reign being over as a result of him. - I don't gladly talk to you. - I'm suing during the whole battle thing. Now, let's, let's speak to the,

do you think that Drake's reign at the top is overdue?

“Do you think Drake's career will never be the same?”

Do you think people will never look at Drake the same

as the result of suing the labels or just as a result of the battle? - I think all of it is one and the same. And I love that you're Drake fan. And you say some stuff, I'm like, come on, bro, you know.

But like what? - Like, like, like, no, you team Drake. Like, hey, hey, I think you said, I think you, you are the only person on record that is credible.

'Cause a lot of people say it, but you don't need credible person. I know they say Kendrick lost. The only person that I know they say that. So it's like, that's a little like God damn.

He really must be great. - I think the time to turn it though. I'm seeing more and more people say, your family matters was the best record. And the whole beast.

- I could have algorithm though. - Yeah, you know, like, I'm, my business partner Alexis is famous for telling me, that's your algorithm 'cause they know what you interested in. Time for you show me something totally different.

- I don't turn your, okay, sorry. So here's what I say. Number one, I said Drake is done if he continues the lawsuit

“because what happens is you're acting like a Karen now.”

You gotta understand, rap is about being the coolest and the rap is about being effortless. Rap is like, I woke up great. Like we wouldn't, we wouldn't like a whole if he tried harder.

Part of what we love about him is he's so effortlessly great. So Drake comes while he tries so hard. Like that's why he's so great. He tries so hard. - No, he's right.

He stays, he stays, but he doesn't, he doesn't make it seem like he's trying. - Like he tried hard. - Mike enjoyed it. And only time we saw him stressed out with a fool game.

But every other time he looked like Mike enjoyed it. - Joe and my friend, there's no way hoes ever woken up after 10 a.m. - Yes. - But not but bro, when I said he's done,

it's like, you gotta understand from the inside. I'm in the inside, right? On the inside, you saw in real people. You saw in people you sat down to eight dinner with. These are the same people that's like, you saw us.

Like you saw us for doing what we probably only revealed to you 'cause you was half of us. You have us. You not, like they don't tell black people a lot of shit in the music bins bro.

“I ain't been out in too many tables with white men”

that just was forthcoming with how for me to win. Black men all the time. But not white men. Drake has half Jewish. So he's like they say with them Jewish men,

they like bro, here's what we do.

So he knows the secrets. So you got mad when they got used against you. To me that's like bro, you only know what they're doing and you saw him because they showed you which is some going against the mob shit.

Like dog, you know how much shit do you know and you know that you will never, you probably say 90, 10% of the shit you know and 90% you'll never say, right? 'Cause we understand the world that we come from.

So when Drake started like, stist in this and it's like, oh, you have a kid. When you have a baby, they hit their head, right? Everybody knows this.

Don't react. 'Cause you're rap. They don't cry. But if you don't, if you act like nothing happened,

they'll be like everything around. Everything is fine. But if they see you running to him, oh, you okay. Oh, yeah. And it's like Drake, if you just act it like you were okay.

Bro, we would've thought you were okay. Like let's be clear. Him losing the battle wasn't a detriment to his career. When rap battles happen, we know someone is gonna lose.

We know y'all the friends. We know it's nobody gonna shoot each other. So it wasn't like a real battle. It was like, yeah, we know it's a battle amongst friends. So when you can't take a joke amongst friends,

you make yourself different. It's like when we start off talking about, when I'm in class, I don't wanna raise my hand, 'cause I don't wanna interrupt. Like it's like you're interrupting the movie,

bro, why are you suing? Bro, it's over. We would've forgotten about it if you didn't sue. But it's different in the case of if you're Drake and have information on exactly what the labels were doing

behind the scenes on that whole thing. True. And funds that were being used that you generated

and this that in the third in business.

You're not, you're in negotiations with these labels and you may have asked for a number and they don't wanna give you that. So on this side, this new imprint that we signed, we're gonna help this artist do something that may,

you know, kind of take a hit on your career and your name and your brand. So we're gonna help support that. Like you can't see what artists were like, oh, I see what you're talking about.

So let me tell you, Drake's, you actually just really helped me see something that I didn't see. With Drake didn't understand with that, you're suing Lucien's office.

Lucien is the daddy to all the company. So one of his sons is in a scope and they son is Kendrick.

I have to treat both parties the same. So if he's winning, I have to help the same way, if he's winning because if he don't help, then you can have top of them saying, they show off their faith today, favorite, they don't wanna help.

So it was so, a lot of the times it's like,

“you have to let the chips fall where they may.”

And bro, everybody gets knocked down. And I ain't gonna lie bro, like, I'm more of a Drake fan than I am a Kendrick fan. I just know Kendrick is more gifted. You know, I'm trying to say like,

I listen to Drake music way more than I listen to Kendrick, but you know the difference with how Drake is Chick-fil-A.

He's the top, he sells, it's always guaranteed.

Kendrick is Mattro's. We might not eat there every once a week, right? But when we do eat there, we know we're going for something special, compared to Chick-fil-A.

So my thing was, you gave him the advantage, bro. Like, I'm a Drake fan. I'd be wishing I was these Nickas friends. So I could tell him bro, don't do that. Here's a little shame on doing.

So when you sue what they gonna do. This guy is acting like a baby. Look at him, they're gonna make you look worse. So I get it, don't get me wrong. It's ass whipping, don't get me wrong, whatever it was,

come back with a record. And if I was you, I would have said, like remember how when Pink did the dumb, don't let me get me and she went from like, R&B to rock and she goes,

LA told me, you'll be a pop star.

They got LA hated that lot.

Well, he hated that shit, but it was like, she told her truth and they put a fake L.A. in the video and I said, so my thing is, it's all the game. Bro, like, you are the biggest, you are the best. If you, if you, it's like a nigga again punch.

You know, you walk out on a shit. You might cry in the car, but y'all not gonna see me. All I'm saying is, nigga, cry in the car. This chick's love you. You can't cry in front of black women.

You know that. You can't cry in front of them. You can't be lame in front of you. You can't unlame yourself in front of black women.

“You know that, that's why Niggas was shoot the club”

before they get the ass whip, 'cause she ain't going, you ain't gonna get no ass now. If you just your ass whip. So you bet off killing a nigga going to jail with five years coming out.

At least Bro's are gonna like you. I'm a legend now. My point, so it's like you would have been more of a legend if you just let it go. But now we're talking about ice man and the lawsuit.

We should only be talking about the music right now. You brought the lawsuit into this. That's all of a sudden, like if you keep that going, you think Universal would y'all do it if y'all was Universal.

You think Universal is going to work you and give you their best if you have a lawsuit against them? No. I think they almost have to. No.

He demands too much of the space. I agree. - Right now, all of these, we got some good music all this year. The only album that everybody wants to hear. The only artist that everybody wants to hear from

is the one that is now deemed not cool. Look at my baby, you know, lost the battle, it's suing. That's not by coincidence. That's been good. Because he is the biggest and the best artist.

True, but when you're the biggest and the best, you can't play by the rules that the small guy plays by.

“You have to be the biggest and the best.”

That's what makes you that. It's like Mike Tyson. He lost the Holyfield, but I still my favorite box ever because no matter how many times he lost, he got up like a man, he took it on a chin and he kept going.

He didn't say they cheated. It's like, once you win the ring, when he drank what's saying they cheated for him, so I'm a suit and bro, lost. Okay, I like that point that you're saying.

Who on earth is playing by the same rules as Drake? Nobody. - Nobody. - So granted. - Jay and Oz probably one of the, at that time, the biggest battles we've seen in hip hop,

what we were called, two A-list artists going at. I don't know if hip hop was the biggest genre, that a wise at that point. Now hip hop is that, everything evolves in changes. And the weight things evolve in change,

especially with business, when you are a hip hop artist, Drake's a pop star, cooler, whatever. He's still a hip hop artist, hip hop artist. When you now control, close to the same market as Taylor Swift, when it comes to a label,

back to the perfect storm theory. The biggest battle we've ever seen in our entire lives is Kendrick and Drake because it was, the two biggest A-list artists when hip hop, that was, money wise is at the highest, it's ever been.

I know it sounds crazy to the internet,

but we can never speak like we know what Drake is going through

and how important it would be when you're negotiating a deal at the level that he is during the biggest battle, where you generate that much money to keep the lights on there and y'all got the motherfucking nerve to put money

on somebody. - Yeah, yeah. - Of course it wasn't quite, 'cause you are correct. What do you, what did Drake think they were going to do PRWAT? - Of course they're going to make him look out to be a crybaby.

And I'm not mad at anyone that says he's a crybaby. - Yeah. - I get it. - Yeah. - I could never imagine in that situation generating

the money that I do, knowing the information that I have to be like yo, it's all about, it's all about URL, y'all. - Yeah, that's just, oh, like I get what y'all saying,

or has dropped a little bit, but it's still the biggest

big genre on Earth as far as cultural impact and Drake has surpassed all of that. Tim and Taylor Swift in that building. - Bro, I'm fucking suing. - What are we talking about?

- 100% right. But what I'm saying is is that it's like, no, I'm not suing. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna look at this. You know Drake would have been better.

- I wouldn't have suing. - You know what I'm stupid, you know what I'm stupid? So I wouldn't have suing. - If I was Drake saying, you know what I'm gonna tell them, let's ask to leave the label.

- No, but that, all right. - No, hit me out. - No, but that's why, that's why. - No, about what I'm saying. - That's what I'm saying.

What's that suing? What happens then? They afraid of me. It's my fuck about the leave. We got to make it right, but when you sue, like I would ask to leave,

you know, let me out of here, says y'all like, says y'all want to work that y'all, y'all forgot that. I'm the favorite y'all didn't protect my likeness. Let me out this deal. 'Cause he's worth who?

Drake is probably worth three or four. His catalog is worth about three billion dollars. Like if he stole it on an open market, agree. So why are you taking a half a billion dollar events?

“You should have did what the weekend did.”

When in leverage that got alone, leverage it against it. But you like the machine, too, bro. And that's what I'm saying. We can't get mad when the system works for you

and when we get mad, when it doesn't. Like that's my only thing. And like I said, I hate this mall. I'm glad I'm talking about this because I'm a real Drake fan. I think I love this nigga.

Like I remember fighting niggas, like he's gonna be the biggest artist in the world. That's kind of how I got credibility from niggas, 'cause I would be the first nigga when best I ever had came out. He's gonna be the biggest artist in the world.

How the fuck you know? I could tell you, he's half black, he's half Jewish. He's talking directly to women. He has no violence in him, he's from Canada. He's clean, clean cut, he's gonna be the biggest.

And you know what, the most important thing,

he can do any genre, because he's from Canada. Like Kendrick can't do one dance. He can't, unless he's with a UK artist and he's a feature, but he can't make that his song. Drake is the ultimate cheat code in music.

You got tricked out of your spot by the culture. And to me that was the part that I felt like though, the culture really fucked you up. We're gonna do the battle, Drake had nothing to gain from the Kendrick battle.

Let's be honest, nothing, like, no, you're a top. - They can win on the top. - No, I could do his lose. - Why are we doing this again? - No, but you can't win for losing on that. - No, but you can't win. - 'Cause I'd sit on this couch

if Drake ducked the like that smoke. I'd be on this couch saying yo, but the like that smoke came,

“put the like that smoke came from the first person shooter, right?”

Didn't, it was a response to him. I think what happened with Drake was this one thing happened. I'm gonna say what I think happened from the inside. - Well, first person shooter, Drake didn't. - I don't have no idea.

- But they have a long history of back and forth. - I think that what happened with Drake was that, none of his peers could beat him. They knew they couldn't. And it was like, and the nigga could do anything he wants.

He can do Rick Ross type music. He can do Travis type music. He can do a, a peak and do a correct K-pop song of he wants. He can do every once 'cause he's from Canada. And I think his peers got a little frustrated with that.

So I think they've been trying to beat him. And you know he probably knocked off everybody girl, right? So you know, you really wanna get him. And it's like Ross can't beat him one on one. It's like William Jale, bro, like who can beat this nigga?

Like who's the one, and I think the only person alive that can beat Drake in the battle was the only person he'd buy. There's not another human that could touch him. No way it close. But you went against the one nigga you shouldn't have.

And then he took the bait. So when he's torn his slave shit, he's leveraging the half. He's leveraging the half as you part. That was your superpower.

And now it's the culture's looking at you. Like, you don't know no better. Hold on, he don't know, bro, you went into thought. Kendrick comes from Compton, my nigga, they burpees. The nigga's his burpees, lifting weights.

Since at five, and they back yard, the three hours behind us, bro. Like, whatever time it is right now, though it's 430 right now, it's 130 there. That's a whole different.

The only thing that's funny about that, no man, niggas and confident, don't do burpees. Look at the other, they're doing a push-ups and shit. And I'm like, don't battle him, y'all. Don't battle that guy.

Like, his friends want to get you. Like, I know 2T. I know he's got been around his guy. These guys are guys you don't want to play with. Drake is Canadian, bro.

Be Canadian, another thing I would have said.

They never have, he's connecting him.

He's connecting me out. He's connecting me out. He's connecting me out. Let me tell you what I'm saying. Kendrick has to come to Toronto one time.

And that's on tour. Drake, you're in LA on just times a year. - It's got to be on board. - It's just that. - That's all I'm saying.

That's all I'm saying. I'll get up the train all the way up the plane. You never know of it. So a PSA, man, fuck it. That's cool.

It's like, you just never know. So I'm like, don't have that fight. If Cole comes in, do it. What if Cole on them? What if he told me, I just thought about them.

“That's what if Cole line them up with him?”

- I've been saying that for the first time. - Because this is like the only thing that happened. They kill me. If Cole joins the battle, it doesn't go that bad for Drake. Because it's three people fighting each other.

It's like, you know what I know.

That was the case.

Why do you think that Cole would have lined him up

in that situation? I think Cole back. - Okay, so look at it. - Look at it from this standpoint. Drake and Dave Cole.

“- I think Cole's done this was for funsies.”

- Drake and Dave Cole was a kind of the same person. - Yes. - I agree with you. - I agree with you. - I agree with you.

- I agree with you. - I agree with you. I agree with you. I agree with you. - I agree with you.

- When you got dressed, they don't look at it that way. - That's true. - No, but he grew to dress. - What you got dressed? - I don't know what that means.

- So who got it? It was funny. But my thing is bro, you listen, if J. Cole does the battle, if I'm Drake's team and I'm sitting with him and I'm like, okay, I don't listen bro, Kendrick is dangerous,

and we gotta go to LA. I'll do it if Cole's involved, like let's all hit each other. But if it's gonna be you versus him, let's gracefully bow out. - No, I don't know.

- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't know what he's gonna do. I don't know what he's gonna do. - I don't know what he's gonna do. - I don't know what he's gonna do.

And we gotta go to LA, I'll do it if Cole's involved, like let's all hit each other, but if it's gonna be you versus him, let's gracefully bow out.

“- No, no, no, no, I don't think Drake thinks that way, I think Cole thought that way.”

- I think Cole line them up. - As I'm talking to y'all about, I haven't talked about this before. - Why didn't they hate me? - Why didn't they hate me? - Why didn't they hate me?

When I say Drake name, they're like, we hate just niggas, I'm like, let me stop talking about it because I'm a fan of his, but I think as we talking about it, I think Cole might align, think about it, if J. Cole line Drake up, that is the greatest line up in the history of your rap music.

Let me think about that, they won't tour together, they'd probably like, we can go ahead and let's do it for the hell of it. Man, you know what? - I'm straight. - I think you're given Cole too much credit in that regard.

I really think he just wrapped on first person shooter.

It was the big three. I just think he was, I think Cole was an actual nice, I mean that good away. Nice guy, but also competitive rapper and just said some shit. And I think he's got a competitive rapper. - I'm saying at the time.

I think at the time I didn't want to play. - Oh no, just take that off of his name. - I think at that time, yes. And I can totally understand Kendrick's point of view. If I'm looking at like, y'all, y'all hugging on a stage,

y'all need to do it, tour together. I could see Kendrick looking at that, like, you know, he was in a crow. - You know, he was in a backyard doing fucking push-ups. - I'm gonna get together. I can totally see Kendrick, especially being Kendrick being a very funny. When I say clown, I mean a good one, like Kendrick clown on people.

- Yeah, for sure. - Like looking at that shit, like this is a crow.

“Y'all hugging on a stage, you should talk about the last 20 years again.”

Get the fuck out of here. - That was hip-hop. - And then doing the like that verse. - But that was hip-hop. - I respect, I respect Cole there. I'm waiting for him to get, I think, I think.

- I think Cole apologized. - I explain that part. - I think when it comes to being competitive and here for the sport, Drake and Kendrick are alike, but I think as human beings, Drake and Cole are like, and then when it got to that point,

Cole is like, I'm not you, Drake. Because Drake doesn't get enough credit for going after anyone that says word about him. - That's true. - Which a lot of rappers, hope included. You just give a little subliminal here.

Drake will rap at you right away, no matter who you are. - Because that's what we're ready to say, and I don't understand. - But my thing is the game is the game. And when you end the game and your rich is Drake, that means you've taken a lot of losses, but you're taking way more wins.

The beat is richest successful as Drake. My whole thing is, that's a loss we don't have. That's a loss that we focus on. The battle was a two years ago. We still talk about it because of the lawsuit.

If the lawsuit went away, he would drop music. He would drop music. He would have been over him and Kenji would have hugged those days at Toronto. And it'd have been over. - And I don't think it's because of the lawsuit. I don't think it's that.

I think that that was such a big moment that we're going to be talking about that forever. You can't be two years removed from the biggest moment and rap history and not talk about it. - Unless you're the biggest artist in history rap. - Now, do you feel like music wise? Because, you know, we've gotten some music this year.

Some good albums, some good music. But there's clearly a gap. We say there's no who are the superstars? - Yeah. - Right. So do you feel like there is clearly a wide gap.

Missing when there's no Drake album music to really place. - So we need him. A lot of people don't feel like that. - No, they don't feel like they're not paying attention to the economy. Like Drake made artists that we might not have taken as serious,

feel more serious. Like when Drake does a record with blockboy JB, like you look at him differently, like Drake co-sign him. He got a hit, but Drake co-sign him. So it's like you need him because a Drake co-sign is worth three years of a career.

And if Drake just co-sign, that's three years of getting money. Right, because of that. So I think we need him. I just wish he didn't take it so personal. Like, if I was you, I would have ticked it personally,

but I would have never let them know.

I would have ticked Lucien John. So let me tell you something, Michael Jackson was having problems with Tommy Matollah. And he was like, they're not going, oh, y'all, y'all don't, they're not going to treat me like I'm Michael Jackson.

and got Tommy Matollah fired that way from the dinner table. - This is my fucking race. This is my fucking race. He got to go. They fired him.

So imagine if you was Drake and you flew them. You don't think the owners of Universal, the Vendi, his daughter probably is obsessed with Drake. Well, love to sit at the party, get my hand job under the table, I ain't talking to the dad.

And they say, yo, bro, I don't like what they did. He would have got way more from it. But my thing was, you're acting like a spoiled child when you are spoiled child. Don't act spoiled when you are spoiled.

But by spoiled, why are you fussy?

- Because you've always won.

The reason why he's acting like this is because this is his first time. He took a real genuine love. - Because he's always won because he was better than there. - That's my point. I agree with you.

But the one time you don't say spoiled like they gave it to him. - No, no, no, no, you're right. I think Drake is incredible. But one, he was in my top three until the lawsuit. Like, that took him out?

- Yeah, to me because, like, bro, like, you all don't know a lot about me, but like the music industry, like they did me dirty in 2020. They basically set me to die.

And I could have sued and probably got crazy money.

But I know they would have never respected me

“because they would have thought you need to sue the win.”

I'm gonna get put a camera on me. - That's a hip hop. - I'm gonna come back. - Rest of the world. - But you're talking about hip hop.

You have to play by the rules or don't. And right now, Drake is not playing by the rules of hip hop. Because he's suing. - And I'm not comparing this to the Drake thing. - If you're not gonna play by the rules of hip hop rules.

- All the hip hop artists that we love and respect have sued people before. I'm not saying they're in a rap battle. I want to make that clear. But let's not act like Jay-Z's not sued somebody before.

Yeah, 50 says not sued somebody before. Like that. But I think when Jay-Z sued somebody, everybody feels like it's valid. I think this the first time when no one feels

this lawsuit is valid except the Drake stands and his friends and him. If I think that the lawsuit is done, it's not gonna work. It's goes a go away.

- First thing was, my thing is,

there's Drake is more powerful than Lucian Grange.

- All right, great. Let me make this no. If I, about a way of Drake, don't notice he needed to notice. He is way more powerful than Lucian Grange ever will be.

Because Lucian only controls a back office. I think he knows that which is why he's who I would assume. I would have sat on the table. I would give him to you.

“But I think that's why he's percentage of universal income per year.”

But back to the superstar thing. I think it's one for stars, Bree stars for sure. But do we, I think it's clear now. And I laugh because a lot of my homies, my chat, you know, they text me a yo, your multi-drick, we're sorry. We need him bro. We need 24, we all lied. Like, you know, it's like it's a lot of that. And I'm just laughing because they're saying like, we're getting good music. And artists are dropping and you know, we get some good projects. But to what they're saying, it's it's clear.

Like, bro, we need that, we need a side for him. We don't need music. We need excitement. Drake, he brings excitement. Like, no, like, you gotta remember, like, yeah, it's a great performance, because you're watching nobody. Like, they're not watching, these young boys ain't watching Travis saying I want to be great like Travis. They're just getting their money and saying, I make $3 million last year. You can't tell me I ain't a boss.

Okay, you know, you need to make $3 million a rest of your life every year for you to maintain the lifestyle you have right now. That $3 million will burn out real quick in six months if you ain't got three more coming in. So, keep, keep working, keep going. But I don't really think that's the full problem. Like, yeah. Drake is needed here, but Drake is also a legacy act now and was getting probably the longest run. The most dominant run we've ever seen in music.

The issue is there's no one else to me. Like, Drake, let's take the battle out of everything. No matter what, Drake was eventually going to get to legacy era. And he's about to be 40 soon. Like, we're going to, it's still no country for old men to summer guards with new music. You take the battle out and Drake is still the biggest artist and no one has a weird perception of him. It's still like, duh, like, Drake can't keep the shit moving for the rest of my fucking life.

Like, no matter what people would have been like, I don't know if I want the Drake co-sign on someone that's 21 and Drake is 41. That's another man having talent that is going to be honest with you. That's another thing they did when they called his age out. Because you got to remember Drake didn't age. Like, Drake was still like 25 to me, right? And then he was like, he's 38, 37. Oh, well, as he messed with the 21 year old, then it becomes like, you know, he gave them to ammo. Too much ammo. Like, it was like he didn't have to play by the rules, so he didn't.

And then once they started focusing on him and they realized how many rules he was allowed to break,

“I think that's what made us peers come out of them. It's jealousy. I said it's wrong.”

But if Drake would have won against any other rapper in the world, we would not be sitting here. He only won against Kendrick and that was the only person you shit in the wedding against. That's it. I mean, I would tell you this story. About five years ago, I'm in the studio with a super producer.

The producer was using this, and it was arguing Drake versus Tupac. And the producer is from the old school. So he's arguing Pock. And the songwriters from the new school. He's like, Drake, Drake, Drake and he saw a screener. You know, Drake, Drake, Drake. So the guy got up and punched him in his mouth. Wait, this is a true story. No, it's a true story. This is in the studio.

No, no, no, no, no, this is a true story. By the way, this is five six years ago. And I'm going to tell you what is I'm going to laugh. He punches him in his mouth and the producer punches the songwriter in his mouth and the producer punches the songwriter in his mouth and the songwriter falls to the ground. Like, when you're doing brown, when you're doing brown, when you're doing brown. And the producer stands over him and says, "That's the difference between my generation and your generation." Keep that in mind. Because that's really, it's like, "I came from a world where a nigga will punch you on your mouth."

Yeah, you say some crazy. You might get punched in your mouth. And he got punched in his mouth, and the song's in his mouth, and the song's in his mouth. What are you doing? I'm going to punch her.

“Can I ask you what are the sentence ones that got him punched?”

No, he just was yelling. He was just yelling. And the producer is a yeller too. When I tell you what I know how he is, he yells too. So, the other guy started yelling, "Oh, no!" He said, "What?" He was just punching his mouth right from everybody. And the nigga just fell to the floor and he was standing over him and I swear to God, he was like, "That's the difference between my generation."

Your generation. Your generation. Your little nigga got up. Got up. He was like, "Hey, go hit me no more."

He was like, "Hey, go hit me no more." And just walked out and said, "Hey, he'll never work with me again."

That nigga ain't made no hit sense. That's songwriter. But the producer's fucking filthy rich. I gotta tell you that story. Because it was like, there's a metaphor somewhere in this entire thing. The whole point is, is that the whole point is, is that you're going to get punched in your mouth at some point. But sure.

And what you do back is going to tell us what generation you from. Are you going to get up and fight like a man? Are you going to walk away? Are you going to sue?" That tells us everything. Are you sue? Are you my son age? Are you fighting? Are you mad? Are you about to fight?

Okay, it's just the generations. But I'll get what you saying. But I'll just take it. That's the shit we're talking about. Yeah, it's a difference. I just think that again. Because we hold Drake to this. He got to be hip-hop.

No way through, right? Because you're saying that if you can't sue because that's not hip-hop. That's not our culture. That's not. But it's like, we give everybody else a pass. They could do shit. That's not hip-hop and it's like, "No, it's all good." You know what? Drake when Jay Cole did is not hip-hop.

You write in my opinion. I agree. But nobody wants to call that up. Well, he did his own, he wants to protect his family. And, you know, he was, he saw that it was about to get ugly and nasty.

I saw Niggas die over, right? What? I agree. What was the number one sneaker from the '90s? Jordan's.

Barclay has sneakers. Barclay, Barry Barnes has sneakers.

“They are sanitized sneakers, but why was Jordan number one?”

Because he was winning. And that's my thing. And my mind, if Drake is the only person the last 20 years have belonged to Drake. For sure.

Like you're the like, "Oh, one year, you say that. Oh, who cares?" But it wasn't, it wasn't, again, I think everybody, you know, it wasn't the music. I think it was more so what he knows that the labels were doing.

And like you said, he's more powerful than Lucian.

So he's challenging. He only knows because they told him things evolved. And I'm not having to be a rabbit. And I'm only telling you all to the biggest business owners because they told him.

And they only told him because he's on their side too. Yeah. Once he used, you know what? You know what to tell people? Remember the whole Ryan Kougler deal thing.

And everybody's making a big deal of his deal. You know what pissed me off about it? Ryan Kougler is not the first person to get that deal. He's the first black person. Right.

Spielberg been having that deal.

“They just never, when black people get it,”

it becomes a big fucking deal. It's a turning point we get it. So as long as he's like, he just, he just shouldn't have went into it. And if he did, he should have took what came with it,

kept him moving, peace it up with Kendrick,

and then kept it going. Like, oh, hell. Yeah. Oh, let us make it. Yeah.

The other thing is wild that Tommy Matollah was racist and gay. He was gay. I thought he was married to Mariah. Hey, he's gay.

It's fucked. Is he? No, it's sexual. If you know Tommy Matollah's story, maybe he came in power.

He's a smart motherfucker, because he only managed all the notes. That's all he had. And then Mariah. Did he?

But he didn't know. He signed her. Okay. And then he married her. Okay.

Yeah. Tommy Matollah is not gay. Yeah. All right. All right.

All right. All right. That's exactly what I did. He's a heterosexual male music executive. That's what he wants you to know.

That's exactly what you're saying. We're talking off Mike. And you had to statement that rap is a joke. I know you didn't mean rap is a joke. Yeah.

But I did want you to expound a little bit on that. Outside of anything, we talked with Drinking Kendrick. Well, I stress that rapper should treat rap like WWE. WWE proves that men just want to be entertained.

but we don't care. We love the characters.

“And I just think that if you play more on to that.”

So like, say, for example, if all this was happening,

and we knew Kendrick and Drake was somewhere laughing at us. We would see it differently, right? That's why I mean by WWE. Meaning like, say if y'all got something going on, and I'm like, who else got something going on?

And then you find like, it's just do something against each other. I don't care like, and now if it's done, we're in the headlines. And it's like, we're making each other bigger than ever for the moment to fake job at records of sales.

We all won. We ain't really beefing behind closed doors. It's over. Like who cares? Well, I mean, that's happening on the exact same.

We talk about Lucien. I mean, his... [laughs] You're right. His sons are on the three...

Lucien has done monopoly. He has all the part-place everywhere when you're putting your son in your rival as the head of that. But he has a thing. So you've son is 69, and he's beefing with somebody

on your son's label, like... But he has a few people don't know about that. Everyone's laughing behind this. But he has a few people don't know about his son.

His son Lucien didn't want his son to go to your Warner.

He didn't want that. He just couldn't get the deal approved by the board. Because it was his son. What his son wanted? The board was like, "When I given that to your son."

No, he's not getting that. So Warner gave it to him. That's why he couldn't get it. He didn't place his son there. He didn't...

But I think that also was like, "Look at Lucien. Lucien is probably about the exit one." I mean, universal right now.

“He might be like, "That's what I'm saying."”

He knows it. My thing is Drake, if you mad at him, just don't say nothing. Get him on my back again. Fuck his wife or something. Like...

I'm dead. That's the guy in the 20th floor. He's fucking like... Hey, hey, I wouldn't listen. My point is this.

I'm going to get you as back somehow. I might not get you back. I can't beat you over there. But I'm going to get you back somehow. Drake and get his wife.

Fuck his daughter. Dog is daughter. Who cares? Like, do something to hurt him, but not soon. That's all I'm saying.

But then y'all called Drake Corny when he posted Lucien's daughter or whoever the fuck it was. It don't matter with Drake. Anything Drake do right now. They're going to say Corny because of lawsuit.

That's what I mean by like, I hate that he did that. Cause it's like... Didn't bet that follows up. Yeah, it's like, bro, you need to grateful that to follow him. But it's no choice because I had a culture is.

It's like, you could go 999 days being the best man on earth. Good. That 1,000 day you have day off. They turn on you. Yeah.

That's fucked up. I feel... If I'm Drake, I wouldn't even drive music anymore. All right. Well, yeah.

Yeah. That was another thing I was going to do. I feel like, like, should Drake even drop music anymore. Listen, man. I told you just let us suffer.

Like, just let us keep let's tell Joe and I'm going to tell y'all this. I can't... If I own the 767 plane. Mm-hmm. Nobody can get me to respond.

I will fly my plane over your fucking house. Call you and tell you, look outside. I'm going to pay the FCC fine. I don't give a fuck how much it costs. Yeah.

I want to just ride by and show you what I could do without one. Right. Like, I can't be from nobody about the fighter jet. I'll try to make sure I will not be from nobody ever in history. I'll feel you.

Like, unless I'm people with another thing I want to private jet. Like, man, but if that's it, nobody's on this level.

“But that's why I respect it because you see how you say that?”

Yeah. But because he's hip. He cares about the culture. He carries that to a different level. I, you say something to me.

I'm coming at you. Yeah. To me, I think that's more commendable. Because he doesn't have to respond. You got to level.

But if he didn't as a culture, we would have all sat here. I would have sat here. I don't know if you can. I'm just saying this on camera. Talking to you has made me feel more empathy for Drake than I ever felt.

Was it? Because you're right. It's like, that's what I mean. I hate when people take my words out of, like, he's done it. He's done it if he doesn't drop.

Like, by the way, anybody is done that they don't drop. Like, like, you don't think Rihanna's a little scared. Just a little, like, like, what if they don't like this shit? Like, I know they anticipate. But what's I put it out?

There's no more anticipation. So you don't think part of it is like, when she was in that every year, I was like, oh, I was on every album. My love. That's like Rihanna and dropped the album in 10 years.

Like, of course, when she comes, she nervous. I won't play them games. I'm scared to death. Shit. Everybody can listen to my music.

And as much as I push back on mall with this entire Drake and Kendrick thing, which we can end that part. You told about superducers, which I'll tell you off mic. Yeah. Superducer that there's very much tied to that side.

I saw him personally pull me aside. He whispered my ears. Yeah. Oh, it's right. Hmm.

Hmm. Well, see if he didn't think so. But because I've had the phone calls, but I don't know. It's a lot of shit. I'm like, I'm not even bringing it up.

I don't know. Believe anything I'm saying, though. Yeah. Yeah. Favorite producer over there was like, you're more right.

You know what it is? You know what it is? The battle, they're not like us.

Not like us is really the song that kind of pushed it because it was the first

hit in the battle. Everything else we was just listening to, wait for what was next. Hmm. Not like us was the first record that they left. Hmm.

And like, no, I must later we were still bumping in. So it was like, we forgot it's a Drake disc. It's just a pop in our head. It's like, meek mill dreams and a nightmare. It's like, play that shit.

We want to jump to it. Well, that's that represents something.

Another amazing MC said they're, they're both MCs.

Drake ran into a writer, not an MC. A writer wrote the script of what was going to happen. Whereas Drake thought he was about dealing with Kendrick. He thought, because Drake is from hip-hop. Don't get it twisted.

Drake is a fucking MC. Was rapping on bill of beats when he came out. Drake thought, because I'm going against Kendrick. I'm about to do my rap shit. I'm about to have every entendre.

I'm going to do everything. And Kendrick knew that was coming. It's that. Oh, and I'm going your world. You're making it.

You know what I'm about to do? It's rap you rap you. You don't have to be so like, it was going to be fucked. You know what I mean? But that was the okay dope.

That why Kendrick was brilliant in his strategy. That's what I was saying. It's like the okay. Yo, the lyrics on the not like us is like the worst lyrics. I mean, I was not the third verse.

But they're awful. I just because he knew Drake was going to be like, yo, let me go try to out rap Kendrick.

“Because I think Drake is just a formal MC as Kendrick is.”

But like, nah, if I'm Kendrick and I'm a clown. And I mean, that in a good way. And I'm a writer. And I know that Drake's going to try to rap with me. Nah, let me just go do.

Let me go do not like us. Can I tell you what I felt like. You know what I felt like. It felt like he got lined up in the hood, right? Like slapboxing.

You know, slapboxing. You're like slapboxing. You're like slapboxing. You're like slapboxing. You're like slapboxing.

You're like slapboxing. You're like slapboxing. You're like slapboxing. You're like slapboxing. You're like slapboxing.

You're like slapboxing. This thing is just positive. Keep going. Now you got to fight it. No, I said all the time that no matter what,

I think the coach was going to say Drake. They lined up. If he would have with Terrarys said made a hit or made us dance.

Yo, isn't it always trying to make you dance?

Isn't it always trying to make it hit? He went for losing and Drake. So he went there. No matter like. So to end it like you said at the top.

When you're at the top, all you can do is lose. That's what I mean. You know, I understand it. But I respect it because he kept it at pop. He stayed in the battle.

No matter what. He didn't apologize. He didn't back down from nobody. Yeah. Got to respond.

If you take an L when he was in the ring. Got to respond. Okay. One question. I'm asking you that you might know the answer to come.

I'm just curious. Does he plan is a classic? Okay. No, I hope it is.

“But my question is does he plan on dropping ice man while the lawsuit is still pending?”

Or do you think he's going to wait for the lawsuit to end and then drop ice man? Because it's hard to drop ice man and get it to work with the same people you're seeing. That's what I'm asking. Still Drake though. Yes, still Drake.

I think no matter what, it's going to work.

The the registers will ring. It's going to be number one. He's going to have. You don't think they'll play dirty games and to compress him. To maybe shadow ban him.

Make a way of he does 100 or 500. He'll try. What is this. This out more anticipated. It's going to break through.

They're going to try. They're going to try. Even like Nokia. You saw the dirty games with that. And I hate that I'm like on the direct defending side.

But I'm just in a objective human being. Nokia was a huge hit. That would have been crazier if they weren't playing dirty games to block that record. Like no. What if you?

What did I miss? You don't know what I miss was hard. This is like, that's not it. I'm like, but see, here's the one thing. What happened when he lost the battle.

You gave us reason to question you. We never questioned you. Like when we were like. He was a question. He was a little left foot step.

That shit wouldn't work today. Half of his records were hot. I'm like, that's my point. It was. We didn't.

It was Drake. So we all accepted it. Now we're like. How you feel about it? No, there was just.

That's the battle in my opinion. That left foot step. All that TikTok shit he was doing during the pandemic. I didn't care because I already know he has one of the greatest categories. What's on.

“If you want to do left foot step with a fucking shiny one in your crib during pandemic,”

I don't hold that against you. I really don't. I don't really care. But what did I miss? I thought that was hard.

I know, but at that point to your to what you're saying. It felt like a clean slate to some degree. We're looking at a new Drake. You got to come with some crazy. And no key was fire. I just think the labels did their their smear campaign during it in the same

Regore. But I do want to get off this. To your point that you've said a bunch of times that we've also said, I think that battle ruined. Hip hop. It can't hip hop.

It ruined everything. So I don't even want to talk about anymore. It hurts me to talk about it now because you might not ever get hip hop again the way We had it. I said.

After like that, we could pull up the episode. I said, let's all enjoy this now. Because this is the last time we're going to see hip hop. I agree. I think this was before the battle. I said like that. This is the last time we're ever going to see it.

Because you know what it is. There's no superstars. It's done after this. Yeah, it's hip hop. Always the cool guy.

So it's like remember rock was running in the 80s. And the 90s and actual roles. It was like so different. And then all of a sudden they was lame. They cost them was look lame.

Everything about it was like played out. And I think that that's where rap is right now. We just don't realize it yet. Because our kids still look like the rappers. But our kids are all famous now.

Like everybody's famous now. So I just think it's a, I'm afraid for hip hop. I feel like until I see a label that has like a top dog type CEO.

I think it's going to go to the same cycle as as every genre really has and just go to legacy.

“And there's still be some young acts there.”

But we're now seeing because hip hop is so young. We're seeing the nozzles and the jazies age in a cool way. Yeah. Like, if, I mean, obviously nozzles and investor and ring camera. He doesn't need going to earth.

But we're, if we needed him to be what Bruce Springsteen is as far as that. Like my dad, go to MetLife. It thinks Bruce is the cool. They call him the boss. Yeah.

Like the boss. He could be he could wear a fucking button up shirt. And just just sit there with a guitar. Yeah. And he'll be cool.

If nozzles need to do that. I think hip hop is starting to age that way. Where I think Keras and Kane didn't get that that opportunity because they were knocking the door down. Yeah.

At the time. I think if Elvis lived. I don't think he would have been this cool legacy act that you'll think he would fuck that. Because because you get a chance to get out of shape.

It has to get gray, stomach to go out and becomes like, you don't look. Yeah. But now you'll get, um, grateful dad. Led's that like, people that can now tour in rock as legacy acts. I should even kiss and take the makeup off.

Yeah. Yeah. Now we're seeing rap do that because it's such a young genre. So I don't think it's over in that regard. Like I see it's just starting.

Okay. Just hope is doing roots picnic and that's going to be old music. Okay. I'm going to tell you what I think because you're right. I'm not saying hip hop is over.

I'm saying hip hop. The genre of music is done.

“I think hip hop has, you got to remember.”

First of all, like my kids in the culture, like probably if you act kids,

they do the culture, right? Like you have kids? No. So my kid, like what Drake and Kenji was dropping, my son is the one that called me with family matters drop. Yo, dad, it's not going to be like, my son is 16 at the time.

It's like, oh, we, we in the culture together now. When I was a kid, my mother was listening to, Anita Baker and Luther Vandross. And I was listening to rock him. Now me and my kids are listening to the same things.

So I think hip hop has an opportunity to spread. But we so used to. We trying to go through the roof and it's like, no, there's no more roof. The ceiling is up there.

All we can do is just populate the flow we are right now. It's also going through the same cycle of every genre. And unfortunately, hip hop is hitting the worst time in history, where music is meaning commerce. So in in 20 years, Kendrick's going to do the 30 year anniversary

damn tour and everyone will be there. Yeah. But as far as the young version of keeping the genre going, I don't know what that's going because everything's content based. And now you're running into Lyra Cohen,

who's the head of YouTube music saying, we're not focused on songs. Yeah. So it's fucked not because of a hip hop reason. It's fucked because of the,

but you know what I say? It's a playing field that we're in, but hip hop will live forever. Like hip hop is a play because it's going to do a live story at some point.

Like hip hop has always been the driver.

I can't think of anything that pop music may popular, right? Like a sneaker. Like when Will Smith goes men and black and all of a sudden, we sell 3 million Ray Bang glasses in the the following few months.

Like hip hop is the only like let's be clear. Like let's just say it like the black man is the coolest man on earth. Right? Any table at a black man is the attic man too. No, no.

Yeah, for sure, but I say any table at a black man is that that table at, if there's this eight other races there, they all look cooler because the black man is there. So like that's kind of like our currency. So you know what I want to just run on,

but like black man to me, hip hop is our extract. And I feel like your man, he's got to come on board bro. Like like I love Drake. I just I just wish that he understood that it's not personal.

Like he from Canada. So you don't know how we do in the states in the states. We join each other. Like I'm a snap on you from the beginning to the end. Like my best friend the first thing he said to me was that you big head mother fucker.

What you think you're going and he joined me the whole walk home from the school bus. And I just don't think Drake understands that in America. We're going to laugh at you from time to time.

“I know I think he understands that, but anybody joking with pedophile.”

That's true.

We've never joked with that.

You can't tell me one time going on. Some of the adults. So just to the molester that's so true. When you ever heard that that's true. You don't play with that.

That's not something we play with. I say he plays with that though. The nigga I want you to get in the ring and fight them. That's why he did it. Listen, that's why he did it.

That's what you back. I get it. You're slap on the thing that's been in the back lifting weights. Doing burpees. I can't wait to fight somebody.

I understand. Yeah. I was the problem. He just we can wait to fight somebody. You needed that.

I know, but that was the problem. I think he said it. You know, I know you got a thousand records sitting in their hard drive. Why would you fuck with that person? That person waiting to do this shit.

I'm a rapper. Exactly. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper.

I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper.

I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper.

I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. Today show is brought to by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock,

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Make it a preset and stay connected all day. Right. You have posted a rapper that we love. Support it for a long time here. Larustle.

You posted him a lot. You've talked about him a lot. Yeah. How have you felt? Outside of him, Simon with rock and then the low weighing commas.

You're having set. I just want to make that clear. Yeah. You are. I just want to make that.

Just so you feel comfortable with the couch. Everyone here has having set. I just want to make that. Make that very clear. How have you.

As someone that is coached a lot of people's career. Yes. And we love the Russell so much. Yes. That's why I like love him.

I hate that he's going through some shit. Even though he's he's a human being and be fucking up the same way. I do. With the attention he has on him now has he been handling things. Okay.

You know what? I think he has. I just want someone to put him in like, you know, just give him a nuggie and be like, yo, you are you. Shut the fuck up.

Okay. So let me tell you the greatest thing an artist can do is draw a line in the sand and say, I'm over here. That's the greatest thing an artist can do. That means you know your audience, you know who you're making it for.

You know everything.

So to me, Russell to me is he's finally drawing his line.

He had it. He's like, so like he's saying things like, I'm not going to lie to that. That Hitler's having sent. I understood where he was coming from. But he has to understand that that's like a white man saying,

Every KKK man is having sent. And we will be offended by that. So I get what you're trying to do. But just because you're trying to do good doesn't mean that you know her people.

“So to me that was the only thing he said,”

I was like, mmm, the little way thing I agree with, right? I just, I think that little Wayne is a great rapper. But I don't think that little Wayne, I don't even want to say this because it becomes bad. I'm just saying little Wayne can rap.

That's what he's great at rapping. I think that we like other people because of the character they also play. Like I don't just like Jay-Z is a rapper. I like the character he plays. I don't like he is a rapper.

The, I like Wayne is a rapper. I don't like the character he plays. So he's like, I don't like, think about it. He's like, black lives matter. What's that?

Like he's just never been with us.

He's always kind of been like, man, I sit in my own corner and do my own thing. And he's been able to get with that. But I don't think that's not why I would ever put him in that same space. And so when someone like the Russell says,

who got to remember listening to this, I love Park more now than I did when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I loved him. But as a man, I really love him. Because I'm like, man, this man was talking some shit.

He was 20, 22, 23 talking shit. That's the same effects me today. So what I'm saying is to look at that from the Russell standpoint. You get an older, you become a more of a man. And now you're looking at your idols like,

and that's what he did. I wish he would have did this. So I know people with judging him. But that's what happens when you grow. You got to think about this whole probably grew up

loving Big Daddy Kane and Rockham. But at some point, you got to measure yourself against them. And be like, nah, I don't like what they did. I like what I'm doing. And I think that's what the Russell is.

Not think growth hurts, no matter what. If you think about the time where you probably got to the furthest, you was probably going through the most you've ever went through in that moment. So growth hurts anyway, bro. So to me, the Russell is just growing.

And now there's a line in the sand where everybody was behind them. Like we love him. But now as people have hit, I don't like him.

“And those people get, that's what drives an artist.”

Go back to the WWE thing. Like my favorite Russell of all time is Stone Cold Steve Austin. He's the greatest heel ever. I don't like a baby face. I like heel.

So it's like you can play different. You can play different sides of the fence. It's still win. And yeah. Yeah.

All right. Yeah. We are saying the same thing with the Russell part. I forget what he wrapped about it. Forget the wanship.

Because I agree with the Wayne. Thank you. Well, like I kind of looked at Wayne inside. No, Ray was mad. Wayne didn't get the Super Bowl.

Nah. No, no, no. I don't think Wayne, I don't think Wayne should do the Super Bowl.

Because Wayne should never do this.

His vocals are so hard to follow. Like imagine him singing a million. Like if they get thought they had a problem with Kendrick singing damn.

I mean it. Like it would be.

“I don't think he should do the Super Bowl Wayne.”

Wayne should not do this. Yeah. I don't think so. And that's okay. Everybody's not meant for the Super Bowl.

Like the Super Bowl is everybody. It's not just one corner of the world. Right. Because of the low Wayne deserves it. So just kid rocking because he's that.

He's low Wayne to that world. Right. Well, I mean, kid. Right. He did a little.

He did a little. That's for me. He should be able to. I even see Bad Bunny. Yeah.

I saw. He's more than. More than. Yeah. But not with.

With the Russell shit. I guess it's interesting to see.

How somebody is finally dealing with not being a darling.

I love that. That's why I'm observing this. The Russell shit. And we've clowned him. After he said that shit.

But we support and love the Russell. I'm just observing somebody finally not being a darling. And how they handle that. Like it's not just a woman thing. But I judge anyone.

How they deal with attention. Yes. That's a. Attention. You say.

Attention. That's really. I like that. How people deal with attention is is kind of how. I view them.

Yes. That's. That's who you are. Like yeah. I know who you are.

Once once you have a woman. You got the light. Yes. Like how are you in this regard? Now.

I'm not saying that in. The Russell's case because the Russell's had a bunch of attention on him. I'm looking at now how you deal with negative attention. Because you have been nothing. But as rightfully so you started to share your backyard.

You deserve every bit of flower you've gotten in this entire time. But that's not how the world works. Now you say one mother fucking thing wrong. Which is kind of true about Wayne. Or you say that dumb as shit.

I'm not judging the Russell's right. I'm based off that.

I've seen shit because the Russell has had 10,000 hours of amazing rhymes that makes sense.

You're just an idiot in that. We understand what you were saying. Stop it. Yeah. I'm judging the Russell right now of how he's dealing with.

Negative. Pub. What you think? Do the whole thing.

“I think that's what separates everybody.”

I think. Jay Z got killed. What he was talking about. And we saw how he pivoted. And said we're doing streets as watching.

Yeah. He knows how to pivot. Once you finally get some negative shit. Yeah. I think that defines what an artist is.

And I'm finally judging the Russell. Hmm. How are you going to figure out for the first time not being the darling independent rapper? How are we moving now?

Because it was stupid. Stop trying to explain. I don't know what heaven said me. You know, it was dumb. It was dumb.

It's not profound. I'm sorry. What you say was not profound. He's retarded. It's like, it's cool.

We all do. We all miss the mark. Come on.

I'm never judging somebody.

We all miss the mark. But to me, I think the Russell is fine. Because the Russell is a household name in the hip-hop space. And none of us probably know any of his music. Which means we hear him talk.

That we don't hear him rap. We hear him talk. We know what he does. Like, I know a few of his songs. But I'm saying you can't.

The Russell puts out 80 songs a year. He has a whole different model, right? That's it. That was my first conversation. Yeah.

Which was his manager at that point. I can't keep up with his output. Yeah. He's putting out so much music. I'm paying attention more to what he's doing in the backyard and what he's saying.

I was trying to keep up with it. He was putting out like 10 EP's in like six months. Yeah, six months. So he's playing a different game. He's treating music.

Like, I want to say like a hustle, but he's treating it like, it's his trap. And he's playing a different game. And I don't think this, the hitlet thing is going to blow over. Because he's not going to stand on it.

Like, yay. Like, he's not going to stand in it. He's like, he's talked about it. Because when we saw he said he said, he said, I was just trying to say they haven't said. Because everybody that's born is having a sit and they become evil.

But you playing a game with words that can hurt people. And that's why I'm like, he missed it. But he's acting like he's saying some profound. And we talked about the last episode. Even though I disagree with that.

What he said at least he started a conversation that came from an actual perspective point of view. But you're just saying everybody's having to say like, you arguing with us being mad at that. It's like, though, you didn't say anything profound.

That was the first time. You know what I was saying? You have no perspective on this. I'm going to be honest with you. The rest of, I don't think the little thing thing was, I didn't think he thought

I was going to do what it is. Because he was telling his truth. And that was unfortunate.

“But I think this time is the first time where he's learning.”

Like, this is his first time. He put his foot this muffin. He's like, oh, because they're not going to. He's going to lose some for that. Like, he's probably already lost.

I mean, he's probably already lost a money. We don't want you to do a show. Probably a bottomist. He was going to get 25 that. He probably missed a money already because of it.

But I just. To me, this is the first time we're going to see how he handles it. And I think he's a great talker. I just think that he should say I fucked up. Keep it going.

But he has this silly side to him. We'll be like, what wrong? Yeah. Let's talk. I don't think he should do that this time.

I think he should just let it go. I'm going to opposite side of it. Only because the Russell was so.

We'll stop listening. Of course. I don't think nobody that has meant his backyard to be goalable. Not going anymore. I don't think that the Russell loses anything.

“I think people that really don't care about any of the shit the Russell was saying.”

All the only ones that all of a sudden care about, right? Well, the Russell is saying. I don't think anybody cares about this shit the way they try to pretend to care about it. Yeah. Like, I think that F thing shit was the dumbest thing ever.

I'm sitting here. I'm a little Russell supporter. Yeah. Yeah. Same here.

I thought it was stupid.

We would never change my mind.

It's not going to change. I'm here to support Russell. Something that needs to be so shit. But all right. There is now one celebrity that has ever lived the I agree with everything they said.

No person. No person. Okay. We live in society now where we think if we don't agree, that means we don't support. And I think that we got to lose that.

Like, it's okay to disagree. He says some dumb. Everybody does. Everybody does some dumb. It's how they recover afterwards.

That we should focus on. And to me, I think he deserves a benefit of the doubt because he's been. He's been talking and he ain't fucked up literally. He ain't said nothing crazy.

“But also, let's also be a beautiful example of how you should move.”

That's also be clear. The Russell is he's going to learn this because he's with hope now. He's under the microscope. Everything he do. They don't think.

That's the difference. That's the difference. So I think that I think that if he's smart, he turned it on because he's like, I will rock nation. They don't think I'm they don't. That miles will do some my feel.

So type of shit anyway because y'all going to think it. I could see him doing that. You know what's so fucked up about the position. The Russell's in is. What he said the Wayne thing.

I know for a fact that there were people backing that clip for a smear campaign because he was signed to Jay. Hmm. Now, would that said with his F-steam thing? Where it's catch 22 with the internet.

Now, you have that already. I'm signed here and now I'm going to smear campaign on ex twitter because I'm signed with him. Nobody give a fuck about that Wayne. Nobody really cared about that Wayne. It was a smear campaign behind it for sure.

Yeah. Now I say something about F-steam. And now the smear campaign is Jay told him to support F-steam. Like how can you even and I'm saying what he said was stupid. But it's now to your point being under the microscope with everything

rock nation. That's why I laugh. People think rock nation has way more power than it does. And I'm telling you the people against rock nation are doing way more smear campaigns than rock nation is doing a y'all.

I could tell you. I gave you some insight on rock nation from that standpoint. Jay Z is hated amongst his peers because he's the only one that's famous. So like he Jay Z, who do you consider his peers when he said it? The seals of the labels, Lucian, Lucian, the sea.

Like they all are trying to kill his name because he beats them every time. And y'all got to spend 2 million to get what Jay could spend half a million to get. Because he's Jay.

So they're going to always hate on him.

So Jay Z, I remember him being in the staff meeting with the CEO of a company. Sweat a guy just says in the front of everybody. I said say something about Jay. And they was like nobody wins when they do business with Jay's. I don't know, like you ought to remember this.

This is CEO of a major label talking in front of 50 of his employees. Nobody wins in business with Jay Z.

“That's why we don't do business with him.”

He's the only one at wins. That's how he is. And it's like, why the fuck would you say that? And like, but that's the shit we're talking about. You have to somehow discredit him because the work.

Let me tell y'all something. If rock nation gets one win. The big three on trouble. Not this version of rock nation. I'm not something I would hold leading Jay Cole this my little.

I'm talking about this staff, this team. They break something. I mean, it's over. Title was the start of that. And that's why I, I, I, I respect Jay Z for so many things.

Starting title to me was the most gangster shit he's ever done in his entire career. I thought that was a bad move. Fucking like, why? Why? If he didn't work out because the reason I thought it was a bad move,

was because the way he did it. Oh, marketing plan was the worst. Yeah. So if Jay Z would have started title and said, I'm going to create a fun artist going to eat from it.

Everyone type thing. But Jay Z did what he has a famous line less is more. Right. So he had. So you pick hand picked the people you want to be on his table with you.

And now you got 12 of the biggest artists in the world. But the other nine hundred and ninety five.

That is out there like we never fucking with you.

We never, and title paid more than everybody else. But it was like it's just about to say. I think about that. I don't know that. I need artists out.

Bro, way more than anybody about this. If why an artist not telling everybody to listen to music on title. Well, because Jay Z picked the artist that he wanted to represent title. And that was the people that sounds ushered in Nicki Minaj's. The people that signed the paper, Alicia Keys.

The people that owned it.

All right.

“This was, no, Prince was there. I think Prince was at the release.”

The press release. I know Madonna.

I think he made it past like maybe the same year.

Yeah. But I know Madonna. I think Prince was on stage. Yeah. Here me up.

We're a marketing plan ever when they had everybody on stage there. Because as a consumer, we looked at it like why are all these millionaires complaining. It was the same way women. That was the same way women, Talica did Napster. And it was like.

Say it like I was that much. Metallica was right. I was down low in the fucker. I was down low in the shit fucker. The marketing plan as far as that of what it looked like to consumers.

Not what it was. I'm talking about what I'm a consumer. It's a bunch of millionaires up here telling me they not make it enough money. Which is true. True.

But Jay at that exact same time. It was also dealing with Apple about to start Apple music and knew that Apple music was going to start to do their exclusive deals. They did one with chance. They did one with Drake.

Everyone knew that these DSP wars were starting out as exclusive deals.

You have to pay for my app to get that. So Jay being the genius that he is is saying. You know Nicky ever I will give you stake in this and we'll put all of our albums through this entire thing. And you know who ironically is the only one that ever stuck to that not even Jay.

Jay name is stick to it. Ooh. Beyonce. Mmm. You couldn't get lemonade off top.

Beyonce is the only one that stuck to that motherfucking deal. Yeah. If everyone stuck to that deal that was on that stage. We would be having a different conversation. I don't know the back.

I don't know why they didn't. And it's not my business to know that. I agree. I'm saying what Jay was trying to do was one of the most gangster shit I've ever seen in my life going against the big three.

Like, you're going against spot. You're going against spotify in the whole country of fucking Sweden at this point. If he would have gotten everyone to stick to that exclusive plan, he didn't even stick to it. That's what I said. But why didn't he?

Because they know.

He was the only one that stuck to it.

That's true. I just think that that was a bad move. I think the way he did it was bad.

“I think he still, I wish he didn't sell it.”

Because I think that's the time right now to get behind title. Because spotify is kind of like what? Not spotify. More of it. Consumers.

Right. I hear you, but consumers are based on routine. And at that point, everyone was scrambling to, hey, are you on spotify? Yeah. And when one apple, title would have been the time to do that.

If all of our favorite artists only had exclusive albums on that point. We're too programmed. This is my phone. Yeah. I got Apple Music Spotlight.

If you bring me a new DSP, I'm not signing up for it. But like, I'm just not. What if every artist sets you? What if every artist said, we don't? We know you don't care where you listen to music.

Spotify, Apple, Twitter, whatever. But if you listen to title, it means more to us. So please go to title. I think that's where you get Patreon. That's where you get those, those paywall things that are important.

I'm saying J was trying to do something that we complain about. Why don't artists have unions? Yeah. Why don't everyone do J tried to do that and no one stuck to the plan?

“And again, I think J had horrible marketing with that.”

Yeah. Don't have my guys with the masks on telling me they're poor. Like, I just, I'm, I'm cool. We're poor. Okay.

Which you guys are all private jets. We don't want to feel sorry for none of you. Yeah. Like, I don't want to see Diplo tell me about the shit. I'm just saying that he tried in that time is passed.

It's over. It's Spotify and Apple. And that's just the world that we live in. The same way that it went from HBO ago now. It's max now.

It's everything is just falling under the same. Everybody trying to figure out what they're going to be. We don't know yet. Everybody's like, we, I don't think the music business. No, we still try to figure out.

I think ice man is going to tell us. Well, I think we're not waiting until this album come out because I want to have a conversation with you. Bro, let me say, I'll come anytime. Y'all come at Lanna. We follow each other like, bro.

Yeah. I love this shit because y'all appear. Yeah. No matter what, I like appear. It's like, keep it pure.

Absolutely. Don't, don't, don't look the waters for yourself because that's cheating. Like, just keep it pure, bro. Like, as long as it's pure, everybody got a chance to win. It's like sports.

Yeah. It's like, just get it. But everybody gets a chance to win. No, just cheap for one person. No, we're going to have a good.

We're going to have a conversation. Once this ice man, I'm dropped. I'm coming back. Once everything happens. Please.

I can't wait to sit next to Ray and then have another conversation about, you know, everything that has transpired. Yeah. You know, even the Bronx on the love. Really?

Patterson projects. Nah. I went to PS18. I graduated. I went to I asked 183 middle school, junior high school.

I, I left the Bronx when I was 12. Right after my 12 birthday. Oh, wow. And I, I talked like that Atlanta shit. I love, let me tell you something.

I love, I was a New York, New York, New York, New York, from 12 to 14.

That's some of a biggie had New York on fire. I came to see my family. I was New York all day. I hang around my cousins.

“They like, you old country mother fucker.”

Yeah. I was like, damn. I'm representing New York. You ain't, you cut your ass, nigger. That was like shit.

I'm not going to be from Atlanta. Yeah. Y'all ain't going to represent. I can't represent. I can't.

Like New.

And I always say, bro, if you go with Patterson projects right now.

You might run into a cousin of mine. Might one out of a million chance. Maybe, but if you go anywhere in Atlanta, Georgia. And you say my name. They all see me grind.

Yeah.

“That's why I claim Atlanta because that's why I became a man.”

Okay. But I did see the Bronx hustling. I do come from some of the early DNA years. And I tell people. I think I'm great at music because I grew up in the, in the, in the New York in 80s.

So I'm, I seen the Black Party turning to hip hop being what it is. And then I left Atlanta in 91. And now I'm watching Atlanta flourish. And I'm also seeing New York flourish. So I had that point.

But I wanted to tell you some real quick. I'm the creative director of the cut. It's a haircut. And I appreciate you guys. You know, so we got a jacket for you.

But I want to offer. I got this for you. I got one of my pocket. I'm going to show y'all. I'm going to offer this.

I'm going to get this to my, my guys. All of that. I think I don't hear go. Free hair cuts for a year. Oh, wow.

But you, free. I'm, uh, worry for you, too. So all I got to do is. I don't have a tough cut. It's fun.

No, no.

“But I'm saying at many times you want to get your haircut.”

That should go card. All you got to do is you can say with the same barber. to do is tell your barber the download app he should have ready. We got 300,000 barbers on the app. Tell the download the app every time you get a haircut he pressed the button you said it with him. He gets paid you know at the cup of nothing. So yeah, free haircut's on me man. I just want to thank you. I'll

have me on show. Oh yeah, because I'm going to get I'm going to get my barber to you by the way, the the Squire. And by the way, let's go. And I'm going to tell you if you are shot it out, you know, at a time the time. I shot it from time to time. If we may give you another year, like come on brother, like, and if I ever want to do something to community, give haircuts to your neighborhood, anything with haircuts, barbering, call us. We got they they clown me a lot because my barber is also

Jay Cole's barber and we have you could do house calls too. Okay. Yeah, I don't know if you out of town anywhere you go anywhere you need a haircut. I'm going to fuck with you out after the weather. You go use that barber going find you. Come cut your hair on us. The cut and my barber signs up for this. I could use that. He probably already on there. But all you got to do is sign up for that. And when you get his haircut, he gets paid all your money going pay them. Yeah. Yeah. All right, cool. This is dope.

Oh, thanks. Thanks. I have me. I just want to appreciate you. I have them. Great. I appreciate you. We're going to talk to you again soon, man. Please come back out of the show. We definitely want to go in your platform. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, and it's beyond the net, Leonard. Yeah, I'm going to talk to you. Yeah, I'm going to talk to you. I'm coming to talk to you. I'm coming to talk to you. You know, I like

talking to you. I love I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm glad we finally got a chance to sit down and

talk, um, appreciate everything that you bring to the cultural conversation. Thank you. The knowledge, all of the Jews that you dropped. That's right. Daniels. I'm Ned Nick. He's just ginger. Peace. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosendorf. I know that. Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents to podcast that owns the NFL off season. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades, every move matters. From my draft boards and

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