Why Bernie Sanders Could Be the Next President, with Megyn Kelly

- Welcome to next up everybody,

“nexters from around the world coast to coast here in America.”

I'm Mark Alperon, Editor in Chief of Two Way. And you're host here for the next few minutes or so. Greatful to you for being part of being in the next or community stick around. Two great elements for you today.

First up, our guest is the great leader of our pack here

at M.K. Media, Megan Kelly, host the Megan Kelly show. Megan and I talk about a bunch of stuff, including her views of some recent big events in American history, how she spends her summer and more. But before she joins us, my report in monologue.

It's a king off of Tuesdays eight for 28 segment. And your response is to my segment. Your eight for 28 eight are a special segment where I round up your reactions and comments and questions about my eight for 28 democratic rankings,

the most likely presidential nominees. Lots of you raise questions about a particular point. Which is the point. Gonna be at the topic of my report in monologue today. Which is about Bernie Sanders.

A lot of you think he's just too old. And I get it and we'll talk about it.

“But we're gonna review some of your comments”

that have inspired me to take a deeper dive and to make a more robust case about Sanders 28. So read through your reactions and then my report in monologue. You'll see why I believe

it would be increasing fervor that Bernie Sanders is not just possibly gonna be one of the front runners, but may well win the democratic nomination for president. So eight for 28 eight and my report in monologue on Youngster Bernie Sanders is next up.

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(upbeat music) All right, next up, everybody, you're a reaction to my 8 for 28 rankings. You're 8 for 28. Hey, all along the same topic, Bernie Sanders age.

And then my reported my log reviewing the whole thing. A more detailed look at Bernie Sanders and the age question that I've seen anywhere else and it will be proud to bring it to you.

First, let's look at some of the 8 for 28.

Hey, all of you think, Bernie, almost all of you think. I'm nuts. Here's Darren Morris, Darren Morris 191 on Twitter. Bernie is too old and unwilling to work that hard. He is the same speech he's repeated for the past 20 years.

If he runs, it's only to get the DNC to buy him and other house. All right, Darren, I'm gonna convince you otherwise. Same with Anne on Twitter, get Real Girl at Get Real Girl. She says, it'll be 86 years old in 2028.

Come on, don't be ridiculous, it's beneath you. Again, a lot of skepticism, day of V15, Dave Voraland on Twitter, breaks down the numbers and this is pretty compelling. How old will Bernie Sanders won't be the nominee.

He says he'll be a vital kingmaker in shape of the race, sure, and Dave breaks it down. On election day in 2028, Bernie would be 87 years old,

87 on inauguration day, end of his first term.

91 years old, and if he served the second term, and don't mistake, I don't think he's gonna serve a second term. He'd be 95, okay? These are all very compelling. And I said, as I said in a monologue last week,

or in Tuesday, this is the big strike against Bernie. We gotta take it head on as a report, we gotta take it head on. Byron York, a great conservative writer, he looked at my monologue and he said this.

In this video, Mark Halpert, almost convinces me that Bernie Sanders will be the 2028 Democratic President's nominee. Doesn't ignore the age problem, just our use of progresses will be extremely strong

in the party, but in my humble opinion, the age problem will trump everything else. On election day, 2028, Bernie will be 87 years old, 91 at the end of first term. I just do not believe the system will go

non-eggagenarian president. Byron, I hear you. And I responded to Byron on X, and I said, let me try to convince you. And so that's what I'm gonna do today.

87 is old, 87 is old, and I'm gonna explain to you

“how I think Bernie could get around that.”

I keep telling people, everybody's got a challenge. I most of them have a bunch, two inexperienced, bad record as governor, Jewish. A lot of everybody, but he put a judge, I can't, when black folk people say.

All true, Bernie's got one big problem, and then I say to people after that, tell me his other problems.

Again, as always with the rankings,

winning the nomination. It's not about Kenny Winner General Election, although we'll get to that eventually, I'm sure. So what's the case for Bernie separate from the age question? And again, bear with me, I'll get to the age question

and great detail. Bernie's often left out of polls of the race, national polls and key state polls. I don't really know why that is. He's been no more definitive, in fact,

in many cases, less definitive than some of the others about whether it'll run. And so there's very limited data. When he is poll, I'll confess. He's not doing that well.

He's doing less well than I would think.

“But I believe that's because people are not thinking”

he's gonna run, okay?

I believe he'd be very strong if he ran.

Why is that? Primary reason. There's a difference between a movement in the campaign. You can win the presidency and a presidential nomination with a campaign,

Joe Biden, great example, that he didn't lead a movement. But Barack Obama led a movement and Donald Trump led a movement. And they have won four of the last five presidential races. It's stronger movement is stronger than it can't be.

And not only does Bernie lead a movement, he leaves one of the two vibrant movements in America today, along with MAGA, the Democratic Socialist Movement. He singularly, the leader of that movement. The other people who are part of it

are part of the pack, part of maybe part of the expanded leadership, but Bernie is the singular leader of it.

And Bernie is synonymous in his long-held beliefs

and his current advocacy for issues that are emotionally resonant for tens of millions of Americans, Medicare for all, limit on foreign wars, limit on special interest money, an anti-establishment posture, change the status quo.

That's it, that's the heart of why I say Sanders can win, because that wing of the party that believes in all those things, that's ascendant. We've talked about it a few or many times. I talked about it on other forums as well,

on two way and elsewhere. That movement, Sanders would have been the nominee, on the strength of that movement in 2016. We've talked about that taken from him by the Democratic establishment.

2020 would have been the nominee taken from him by the type from him at the last minute by the Democratic establishment. 24, he can't run because there's an incumbent. So is that movement stronger or less strong

“within the Democratic Party than it was in 2016, in 2020?”

I would argue substantially, it's stronger. How do we know that we see it in the polling data of what people in the Democratic Party believe it? We see it in the election nomination of socialist candidates in the Democratic Socialist Candidates

and Mon Dami back candidates and Sanders back candidates around the country. Grant Platner may be out of the race in Maine, but look at the strength of Grant Platner, overwhelmingly winning a Democratic primary for Senate

against the popular Democratic Governor established me, creature. So I could go on and on about this, but I've talked about it before and it's not my main topic today.

My main topic is taking on the age and health issue. But man, oh man, this guy is the leader of the movement that animates the party. Now people say, well, of course, Sanders doesn't want to run he's too old and if you carelessly read Bernie's responses

when he's been asked or might you run, you'd say, well, he's taken himself out. Listen closely, two of the recent times Bernie's been asked, might you run in 2020, and they say, Sherman Ask means absolutely.

If nominated, if nominated, I will not serve. If elected, I will not serve. If nominated, I will not run. He's nothing like that. Here's Bernie Sanders playing down,

but not ruling out the concept of running areas on CNN in 2000, last year, is his S7, please. I watch you tonight. I watch you for a very, very long time. You're obviously still full of a bigger and intensity

for the things that you're passionate about and have been for decades. Is there another presidential run in you? Oh God, let's not worry about that. I am going to be 84 years of age.

Next month is a matter of fact.

Right now, what is more important in my view?

“And I want to see obviously the most progressive candidate”

that we can have. Let's not worry about that. I mean, ladies and gentlemen, that is not a denial. Here is earlier this year in June at the National Press Club asked about running S6, please.

That's what I'm hearing. I've covered your campaigns in 16 and 20. I'm hearing from some of your allies. They would like to see you do it again. Because they want youthful vigor in the White House.

That's what they want. We're tired of these 30 and 40-year-old people. We really did our 80-year-olds running the country, but I suspect that's not going to happen. Why not?

I know I look like I'm 30. I am not. But that's not worry about that. And then he says, "I expect that's not going to happen." Ladies and gentlemen, I can tell you from my reporting.

The man is open to running. And he sees that there needs to be, from his point of view, a democratic socialist nominee and president.

“And I believe he's going to warm to this even more,”

because the other prospects, two of whom are on my list of eight for 28, Alexander Ocasio-Cortez and Rokana, their foot soldiers and Sanders army, but they're not the leader, OK? So let's posit that the democratic socialist are going to have a very strong opportunity to nominate someone.

Let's posit that Sanders is open to it. Let's talk about the age issue. Here's all the reasons why the age issue is a real problem.

First, I'm going to lay down that.

First of all, look at this poll A6. His Pew Research poll from 2023. And of course, there's been a lot of polling lately, because a Biden and Trump on age, what's the ideal age for a president to be? 70 or older, 3%, say, that's the ideal age.

And you can see that it doesn't very much by age, although older Americans are more likely to prefer an older president, but not this old. So breaks down.

“You can see if you're watching on video in the '30s and the '40s and the '50s”

and the '60s and the '70s. The most common answer is '50s and '60s. That's the most popular. The least popular is in the '30s, but in the '70s. And this doesn't vary by party A7.

Republicans and Democrats are very similar. If you're a Republican or lean Republican, ideal age for someone in their 70s is 3% identical for Democrats. So in general, the polling is quite clear. No one thinks that's an ideal age, someone Sanders age.

In addition, anybody in their 70s of rare exceptions is going to have health issues. Bernie Sanders has disclosed a lot of health issues. I'll read you some of them. He had a heart attack in 2019.

He had, he's got high cholesterol. He's got gout. He's got divertiture losses.

Hey, every pronounce that never could.

He had a hernia, vocal cords cyst. He's had a bunch of health issues. We'll get back to how he'll deal with that if you ran. Here's something interesting.

I didn't know till we dug into this. Bernie Sanders' parents is Dad Elias Benjahuda Sanders died at the age of 57. 57, younger than, of course, in Sanders' is now. A cause of death has not been widely publicized. I'll be looking into that more.

But it said that he lived a highly strenuous life and suffered from severe depression after the death of his wife. Bernie was 21 is Dad died. And he was 19 when his mom died. His mom was 46 when she died, following a failed second heart surgery.

She had chronic heart problems, stemming from rheumatic fever. She contracted as a child. So if you're looking at Bernie's parents and their life history, you'd say, well, that's not great news.

Parents both died before they were 60. He's got one brother. We'll get back to his brother. What do doctors say about somebody in the abstract and Bernie Sanders age?

Everybody's different, right? You know, my dad who's been on the program is 88. He's got high mental faculties and good health. Everybody's different. What happens older people?

Risk of dementia, progressive physical and cognitive decline. All these things, a present serving from the age they were 87 to 91,

Become much more common. We all know this.

“We all know as you get older, these things become much more common.”

So what can we say about Bernie Sanders?

At his age, is he defying now? No guarantee he'd continue. He could take a turn, but is he defying now? What's typical of people his age, right? 87 years old now?

Here's his brother. His brother Larry Sanders is 91, okay? Larry Sanders is 91. This is Larry Sanders a couple years ago, 89 years old. Here's Larry Sanders at 89.

He lives in England, he's on a British talk show, works at the Parliament. Here's Larry Sanders 89, S8, please. When you look at how they removed Bernie Sanders from the primaries in 2016 and shunted Joe Biden

from that ticket this summer, Larry.

This is not from that's his brother. They have a democracy problem. The United States has a democracy problem. They didn't remove Bernie from the primaries. They opposed him.

They fought in tooth and nail and a mediterical mistake and chose the person who is going to lose the election. Shunting Joe Biden from the ticket this summer,

“I think, is just a sense of he'd been ill or if he'd,”

whatever, you expect that person, not the one the president that I think Biden looking at his films was not well. Okay, could Larry and Bernie lose it tomorrow? They could, but that guy, his brother, unlike the parents who died young.

That guy looks like to be in great shape.

So the first step, if Sanders wants to run,

and again, he's only going to run if he wants to run. The first step is he's got to show people that he's vigorous, that he's like his brother. He's got it together. I've showed you this clip before, but I can't show

to you enough, this is from May of this year, S4. This Bernie Sanders shooting baskets. And again, I'm so sorry for those who listen to podcast version. Because here he is, it's a jumper, goes around the horn, a guy feeds in the ball, it's another jumper, rotates around.

It's another jumper, now these aren't three foreigners, ladies and gentlemen, but these are not layups. And he's moving around, got Brooklyn for him, I call it. OK, so one thing he could do to dispel concerns is to show Vega. Here's Bernie Sanders' from different rallies from this year.

Again, this is this year showing Vega as five please. All over this country, working people are hurting. And they're asking themselves a simple question. Those anybody in Washington know that I am alive. All over this country, working people, including Republicans,

understand that the economy is rigged, that the campaign finance system is corrupt, that in fact, we need a political revolution. But you know what, the most significant addiction crisis in America is today. It is the greed of the billionaire class. This man has a massive email list and texting list.

He's got people in the Democratic State Party's all over the country for him. He has experience running for president. And he can present like that if he runs with a reach that no one else can match. His team is great at making videos too. He can also say, look, maybe Biden was a problem, maybe Trump was a problem.

But other world leaders have been in their 80s. And some have done quite well. Here's a picture of some world leaders. Now, not everybody on this list is going to be a hero to you. If you don't castra and don't show up, pay.

Nelson Mandela, 80, Winston Churchill, 80, okay. Others you see on there. People have governed this lady and they can say that. They can say age comes with experience, comes with wisdom, okay. Now, so step one is to just show vigor and to make it clear that he's able to do this.

And to say other people have done it. Step two, transparency, okay. If Bernie Sanders runs, what he need to do is he need to say, look, no president, no presidential candidate history has been transparent enough about their health. None. And some just the opposite, like Joe Biden, Don Kiyan of Kennedy, they've hidden stuff.

“Bernie Sanders, I think, would have to say, I will, I will be fully transparent about this.”

I will answer every question. I will have my doctors available to answer every question. Every physical you will get complete data. And if there's any indication, I have an issue. We'll deal with it. I'll have to step down.

That commitment to transparency. So is there going to be nothing like what happened to Joe Biden? Were they pretend there's not an issue where the doctor doesn't answer questions? I think that would go a long way.

To satisfy Democrats, it would be safe to dominate Bernie. Here's Bernie Sanders in 2019, after he had a medical incident, talking to CNN about his health. Well, the reason I have been blessed with such good health throughout my entire life.

To be honest with you, I've never gone to a cardiologist.

I don't think before this event, and I didn't have one here in Burlington. So we found a very good cardiologist. They looked at my heart, and what he says the recovery is going very, very well. And we look forward to a full recovery. Well, what they told me is that we're on the road to a full recovery.

There was some damage, but what happens is, within the next month, we'll see what happens, but so far still very good. It's almost a silly question to ask how you're feeling, because you said that you feel sorry. Actually, the God's truth is that if you're sitting there and you said,

"Bernie, did you have a heart attack last week?" I said, "What are you talking about?" I feel great. Not an ounce of pain.

You know, I've been walking around a whole lot, playing bowl with the kids.

So he has a heart attack. He doesn't interview, and his tone was good, but he would need to be more forthcoming than that. I believe to reassure people. He would need to really be clear with people about his past medical history from the beginning of the campaign.

I think he would be wise to do a full briefing to start the campaign. Here's my full medical history. Here are my doctors. Just lay it all out. If he's up to the job, show people.

And then if anything happens during the campaign, or as president, he would need to commit to do something, again, we don't normally see. Joe Biden's the extreme Donald Trump admirably has released more,

but still the doctors don't breathe.

He would need-- he would need a full open kimono on his health. And he'd need to pledge that.

“And then the last thing that I think is super key is the VP, because he could be in great health.”

He could be vigorous, but like any president, he could die, or be incapacitated. And so the VP choice would be key, because we'd need to be someone that people could say, again, we're just talking about winning the Democratic nomination now. This person could win the presidency and carry on the Sanders agenda, okay? Now, we've seen in the past some people on the left have picked running maids.

Nobody's heard of. And it's hard to reassure that you're up to the job. Nobody's heard of you. There are two people, and the other two progressives, Democratic Socialist type candidates, on my list of eight for 28, who I believe Sanders could consider as his running mate.

And I think one of them would be stronger than the other for reassurance. The one who's better known, but I don't know, would reassure that much, because of her age. Right, Marilyn, or inexperience on the national stage is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. They have great chemistry, and widely known, a great affection for each other. She defersed him, they did their big tour together nationally.

Here's a bit of the chemistry between Bernie Sanders and AOC. Is that's three, please?

“Everybody are walking here in Washington, D.C., and who did I bump into?”

One of my favorite members of the United States Congress. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I'm not like favorite senators. Right. Anyhow, is everybody knows we are now in a government shutdown.

Republicans are attacking Alexandria, attacking me. Why didn't you vote with a clean C-R to keep the government up? Well, there's nothing clean about it. Man, again, for those of you who are listening and not watching, the physical affection between them is quite something.

I've covered a lot of Bernie Sanders and some of AOC. You don't normally see him warm and fuzzy. You don't normally see him have that tactile feeling of closeness to another politician, or frankly to anybody. It's just not his style, right?

He's all about the issues. And yet with her, it really warms him up. I wouldn't roll out that he'd pick her. I just think the topic today is, how can he reassure people that is age?

And I don't know because of her age and level of experience, I don't know that she's as reassuring as Rokana.

“Rokana has had with the exception of Gavin Newsom, I think,”

the best year of anybody in improving their positioning to try to be the democratic nominee on a range of issues. He has gotten a ton of visibility. And he and Sanders are extremely closely share a lot of advisors. Some of the people who would help run a Bernie Sanders campaign

are positioning to help Rokana now. But they've known each other a long time and kind of supported Sanders last time.

He's not everybody's favorite, a lot of people in my life

used to like him and have turned against him on Israel and Epstein and some other things. But he is a guy who is extremely smart, extremely ambitious, extremely well-connected in the democratic socialist movement in Sanders world.

But he's also a guy who has ties to other parts of the party. He's got social media game and he's got great chemistry with Bernie Sanders. Here's some examples. S1, please. Welcome everyone to the live stream with Senator Sanders, Senator Sanders.

It's an honor to have you here. You've walked from the Senate side all the way to the house. And I'm not a breath room. Not at all, you're a runner. I know that.

I'm so, you play basketball as well.

So it's a pretty amazing thing that has happened

and that you've helped lead in the budget process. I mean, okay, here's another moment between the two of them. There's Rokan and Bernie Sanders in 2019. S2, please. S2, please.

For if I need to say a few words, let me take Rokan and his world. Come on, if you're right. [applause] Rokan has done an exceptional job in the Congress.

And he's doing a great job. It's one of our national coaches going all over the country. We appreciate that very much, Rokan. [applause]

Now, what would Rokan bring to take it besides reassurance

to the progressives that they would have another progressive there

“to be a teammate of Bernie Sanders and replace him if need be?”

As I said, he's from Pennsylvania originally. He's not white. He's Indian-American. He's got diversity on religion. He's got diversity on ethnicity.

He's also a multi-millionaire, just like Bernie Sanders is now. And people would mock that. There'd be a lot of mocking of that. But those guys on their policy positions on the issues that matter most to the progressive wing of the party.

They walk the walk. They don't just talk the talk. They may be millionaires, but they are hugely credible with the progressive movement. And so again, in the end, as a possible Sanders won't run,

might he have a health issue between now and 2020-80 might.

“If he does run, though, can he overcome the age thing?”

Open disclosure on health, showing vigor, picking a running date, maybe even early on, to reassure people that they'll be somebody there. Maybe there's another name, but Rokan and Bernie are very close, as you saw there. All that to me adds up to this.

You can't be the nominee with that running, but I believe the poll for Sanders will be so strong. He wants to see the country have a socialist president. And if that's his goal, and you look not just at 2028, but beyond. And you say of all the democratic socialism in the country,

who's best positioned, who's best positioned to be president. Anytime soon, the answers to the leader of the movement. And then like anybody else running for president, you say, George Bush running for president, what's a barrier? His dad was president, and people didn't necessarily think warbling about his dad,

or didn't want a hereditary presidency. Think about Barack Obama, biggest strike against an inexperience, and would the country elect a back black president. Donald Trump, it experienced. In every case, if you're a sophisticated person running for president, and Bernie's run twice, he's sophisticated, you and your team sit down and you say,

“what's the biggest barrier to winning this nomination?”

And how are we going to overcome it? For most candidates who have that thing, they say, "I can't raise the money, Bernie can raise the money." The base doesn't necessarily like me, the base loves Bernie. I don't know the mechanics of running for president,

Bernie knows the mechanics. So they would look that if he decides to run, and they'd look down and say, well, what's our biggest problem? Concerns about age. And I'd laid out for you what Democrats have said to me, are the ways to address it. The ways to address it are to reassure people that he can do the job, and that if he can't do the job, the movement will still be taken care of.

That's my reported monologue. I'm sure that'll produce some converts, but maybe not. Let me know what you think. I'd love to know. Send me an email. Let me know what you think. I can't Bernie Sanders and his team. Just assume he decides to run. Can he win and overcome people's concerns about his age? Send me an email at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Send me an email. Let me know what you think.

Bernie Sanders would have to overcome concerns about his age, but he can do it as well as anybody else

“in overcoming the concerns they'd have about them. Subscribe to next up. If you haven't already,”

please do that. Go to the YouTube channel. Watch full episodes there, bonus content there as well. Please, if you're next, or you love the show and you haven't yet, subscribe, please do that. That's at youtube.com/@nextuphelpern. And if you'd listen to the program as a podcast, same thing, I'd love for you to consume it anywhere you want. But if you listen to it as a podcast, whatever podcasts platform you use, make sure you've checked downloads to be turned on,

so you get every episode right away when it drops. And the bonus content that we put on there too, if you subscribe, if you check downloads, you get all my new reports right when they drop.

All right, hope I convinced you. All right, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come

back, next up is the great Megan Kelly, while I drink in conversation with Megan, is next up. Hey, in today's world finding solutions that deliver both environmental and economic benefits,

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When innovation saves money, concerns energy, safe, arts, waterways, reduces contamination, and protects public health and everyone benefits. Suer century faster, cheaper, better, so for more information, go to www.suercentry.com. Okay, everybody, next up, joining me now, our good friend, the major demo, the leader, the champion, the head, the hot-hound show that Topper, as I say, a variety of MK Media Network,

making Kelly's here. She owes the making Kelly Show, you can watch it every weekday, 12 to 2 Eastern Time Ons. I listened to it on Series XM Triumph, and then listen to her to watch it on wherever you get your video, podcasts, or your audio, podcasts, or whatever this content is called. Megan, thank you for coming back. So that's yours, my friend. All right, here's something we have in common. We're both married to

historians. We're both, and we both love history. We're going to start. I'm going to ask you some historical questions. Essay questions. No facts, don't worry. I'm going to... Can I phone a friend and you can't answer? You'll know all these. These are all crafted to your knowledge. I don't know your answers to these, and I'm super curious. I learned from you and others,

“the best way to host to show is to ask things you're genuinely interested in. Tell us a story”

of how Donald Trump won the presidency in 2016. Not like 300 pages worth, but he was a routing TV host. A lot of people were skeptical. You and I were amongst those who were less skeptical, but what were the confluence of factors that you would say led him to lead him to become president? I mean, I think the human middle finger was injected into the presidential race and changed everything. You know, he just didn't care about busting up anything. He had his vision of what was right for

America. Reportedly, he had read Rick Santorum's book on the manufacturing crisis, and that was his message that he just beat like a drum and he was very disciplined in that way. Talking about bringing back jobs for the working class, talking about China, China, talking about build the wall. He had his applause lines, and they worked for a reason, and he didn't buckle. He didn't bend. He was brash. He was rude. He was in your face. And he spoke for millions who hated

the same people he hated. And really gave voice to a boiling, just displeasure with Republican politics and politicians that had been out there for quite some time, but hadn't been tapped into.

Got people off the couch. You would never voted before. And before you knew it, there we were saying,

"OMG Donald Trump is actually going to be the next president." All right. I love that. That's the aperture here. Let's pull it back. And the question your answer raises, why were Republican voters? And then in the general election voters at large, why were they interested in that kind of candidate? What had happened leading up to 2016 that caused people to say, "Yeah, that's what we want. We want someone who will be a

are the top two that come to mind. I was Afox News when Romney lost in 2012. And the Republican

“party did a reassessment. What do we have to do in order to win voters? And the assessment”

led them to conclude they needed to create amnesty for millions of illegals. That's the road that Paul Ryan and others were going to go down. Like what we need is to, you know, to get his panic voters. We're going to have to create amnesty, which is exactly wrong. That's not what his panic voters wanted at all. In fact, they can be some of the hardest line when it comes to holding the line at the border. And they just completely misread the base. And this is after

years of free trade, Republicans all about free trade, free trade, free trade, free at NAFTA, Democrats too. They've been sold out the manufacturing class by both parties. That's mentioned

Republicans obsession with the Chamber of Commerce, which could be satisfied by using cheap labor

through illegal's. You know, it was all connected. And bit by bit, we eroded the working class and their jobs. And the rich, many of whom tend to be Republican, got richer and fatter and grosser. And Donald Trump came in and said, I've benefited from all of it. But the good news is I know how to kill it. I prepared to kill it all. They've all been begging on hand and knee in my office. And I know their tricks. And I'm prepared to use it all against them and to air

all the dirty laundry so that this nonsense stops. And people ate it up. All right, love all of that. Now, how do you feel about historical novels that take a the moment of history, like Jeff Greenfield right season, like you give like a little twist, like it turns out Laurel and Hardy Hardy was an alien. Do you like those historical novels? Here's my historical hypothetical. It's 2016. And the establishment of the party sees Trump

Trump wins, that's election electricity. And they say, let's go back in time to 2014. And let's stop Trump. Let's stop it. Let's let's with knowledge of how he wins the nomination. Let's stop it. Who goes back in the time machine and what do they do? Or was he unstoppable?

“I mean, I don't think he was stoppable as a man, as a as a candidate. I think the only way of”

stopping him would have been if they had changed themselves. Well, like, okay, so what did? So what could they have done to change themselves? And other, how could they have blunted? As you just said, what could what could like John Kasich and Mark Marca Rubio get in the time machine? Not John Kasich. Well, you know what I mean? Who goes, but somebody was somebody? Was there somebody who the establishment would have objected to last who could have co-opted

the maga movement and stop Trump? And who would it have been? It's a good question. I like Marca Rubio what then wasn't the Marca Rubio of today. He wasn't his smooth. I knew him. I followed him on the campaign trail quite a few times. He was not. He was a little... That I don't know, halting, little bumpy. He was remembered that day to the union response, the water. So while he might come to mind, I didn't, I didn't get to remember how he was back then. John Kasich, no,

even Rick Santorum who wrote the great book, was not Chris Christie. Chris Christie. That likable Chris Christie? No, after bridge gate, he was such a mess. The whole bridge gate thing really brought him down. He handled so poorly that he ruined his chances. Even though I like him, I like all the ones that people hate. I don't know, no one's coming to mind because part of what

“was so appealing about Trump is how brash he was, how he wasn't afraid to drop an F bomb. I remember”

him calling Ted Cruz the P word, Marca Rubio. Yeah, he was the P word of a rally. Right? It was like, but people kind of love it. That's real. You know, people talk like that and he wasn't afraid. There wasn't somebody else like that. I, I don't know, but at least they could have blunted the criticisms he had of the Republican Party by not being all the things that he was about to say they were. And maybe dial back the war machine a little. Right? I'm increasingly of the view that he was

unstoppable. Like there was no one because anyone who had wanted to have stopped him didn't understand what was happening. Even in the time mission, even with hindsight, even today, I love to ask Republicans today the question I ask you, tell me the story. And most elected Republicans don't answer it as well as you do. Like they still don't get what happened to their party. Do you do Pilates at all? No, but wait, I want to say something about this. Yeah, go ahead. They don't,

they don't understand Trump, but if I had to like boil down Trump in a sound bite and like

why they'll never get it and why he was so unique and you know, they'll never be another

is fast forward now to the deposition that he gave in the E. Jean Carroll BS rape case against him or civil case for sexual assault, where he was being deposed by her lawyer who is an out lesbian, who was cross-examining Trump and the tape was later released. And she says to him, she asked him about the access Hollywood tape, is it true that you believe celebrities can grab women by the

answered now infamously or I would say famously, yes, it's true. He said it's just always been

that way since the dawn of time, unfortunately, or fortunately. You're right that that is like the one sound bite that explains the whole thing. That is his worldview of men, women, society, history, all thing, you can understand. But the reason I ask you about Pilates is, in Pilates, you breathe in through your nose and then you exhale at your mouth like you're blowing at Candles.

“And that's what I always saw people do at the Trump rallies when you would use profanity.”

There you go. There you go. Exhale, like they can't help themselves, but think it's funny. The other, the other historical thing, it's a mirror image that the Democrats can explain. This is my new obsession. They stole the nomination from Bernie in 2016. Then in 2020, they basically stole it from him in a different way by stopping him right before two, per Tuesday, by all getting together. And Democrats rather than examining why Bernie Sanders was a socialist who wasn't a member of

the party, why he was able to win the nomination. Twice, basically. They just kind of be like a

few. Thank goodness that didn't happen. And then they moved on. And now they're sewing the implications of their putting their head in the sand because now the party's been taken over by the socialist to some extent. And I believe as I've talked about Bernie Sanders, it could well be the nominee. Tell the story of why the Democratic Party now is moved further to the left. That Barack Obama, a pretty liberal guy president, freight years. And from the minute he left

office, the Democratic Party's moved to the left to the point now where it's more progressive, more socialist than it's been in our lifetime. Tell that story. Why do the Democratic Party move that way? I mean, I think it's a similar story because they've with a little bit of a different twist. They are ruled by elites who have absolutely no understanding of their base and the issues that their base is facing, which is economic pain. You know, they, too, over on Team Blue, would like some

sort of economic relief relief. And their better is their moral better is at the top of their party who are all in on woke politics. And it's Latinx or Latinx, please, or your bad person, are doing absolutely nothing to help them in the wallet, in the pocketbook. And so when you're desperate, you're desperate to try something else. Anything else, whether it's socialism or communism, and you add into that pre-existing problem, the hatred of Israel, and you have a powder keg

“of possibility. And that's what we're seeing in New York and elsewhere, as these Democratic”

socialist candidates come out. And their top issue is Israel. No more money to Israel. I won't be influenced by Israel. No more war on behalf of Israel. I promise, which is a sea change within the country and the Democrat party included. And on top of that, promising them all sorts of, you know,

wonderful things that communism can never deliver and has never delivered. But it sounds good and

new and fresh to young people in particular who are putting these people in office and also white liberal elite rich people who just feel guilty over their success and think that they're better people if they just find a way to get rid of cops and incarceration and so on. And even though they'll never have to deal with the consequences of all that. So I think it's sort of this toxic combination of ignoring their basis problems and then becoming more and more ardently anti-Israel

in a country that continues to get involved in things like the Iran war. So that issues front and center. It's not easy to ignore. Right. Okay. The answer to this can be definitely asked definitely know or maybe. If you had a candidate with the political skills of a great political athlete, Bill Clinton or Donald Trump, however, they were for Medicare for All and they were for getting rid of U.S. military and and economic aid to Israel and they were for

and they were for economic revitalization through raising taxes on the wealthy. Could that person be elected president? Again, no baggage, no, no, don't call themselves a socialist.

“They just caught up with a Democrat and they had those used. Could that person be elected president?”

You threw in getting rid of the U.S. military. Did you mean to snap out? Not the military. Getting rid of U.S. military aid to Israel and economic aid to Israel. So yes. Yes. That person could get elected. 100% that person could get elected and by the way, they might they might come up next election cycle and not call themselves a Democrat. I mean, that could happen from the Republican Party. I mean, there's Tucker Carlson's out there

talking about creating a third party right now and there is there is that whole horseshoe thing of like where the right and the left have met up here because they've just served moved away from their parties. Their critics would say they've become so extreme that they've met in the middle. I don't see it as that. They have similar issues. They're just both like fuck off to their main party platforms and that thing could emerge. I don't know about the Medicare for All. That would

sort of be the Democrat thing. But the anti-Israel thing is shared by a whole bunch of Republicans

your message going into 2028, you're probably going to lose. Right. Or if you're from the elite, the establishment, you're probably going to lose, right? Their time is coming going. Which is a better name for a party? Tucker doubt or fuck off? The latter. Fuck off. Okay. Yeah. Not family friendly though. You'd have to maybe put the star in it for the you. It would have about. Let's go Brandon. Something like that. Let's go to you.

All right. Explain this. This is this more recent history. But I want your explanation of

this. Super keen to hear. And first I got to make sure you agree with the premise of a Republican

elites and conservative elites at members of Congress like Marco more than J.D. Is that, is that you're very sad? 100%. Okay. Like 90 to one. Like 90 to 10. Okay. It's so fascinating because I know people who love J.D. Is to you. But everybody just loves Marco and J.D. Is the whatever

“the opposite of beneficiaries of that. How did that happen? How did Marco become the most beloved?”

Like because early in the Trump administration, my reporting said, everyone loved J.D. Like he was beloved in the beginning. And now he's like the red headed stepchild. No offense to red headed, so it's stepchildren. Two words. Yeah. Foreign policy. Because he's doing the Iran stuff. Yeah. That's it. It's that Marco's a hawk and J.D. Is a dove. I mean, sort of, not really. But he's

way more doveish than Marco is. But I thought I thought dove was in. Well, yeah, but not with the

elites. The elites are hawkies. They're their neocons. The elites in the Republican party are all on team neocon or hawk to soften it a bit. And like my pals at National Review, I wouldn't describe his neocons. But they're definitely hawkish. Yeah. And they are definitely, except for like MBD on the Marco train and not the J.D. Train. Right. Whereas I think, you know, the more sort of base the working class base of the party. There are some hawks. They're not all, they're not all

dubs. But people who have to worry about paying their credit card bill are much more worried about that and their gas bill than they are about Israel. I don't, I only have a certain amount of

“bandwidth here. And I think J.D. gets that and J.D. Is of that class as well. You know, it's not”

like Marco was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. But he's been in Washington a lot longer. He runs the elbows a lot better. J.D. is a little bit more. You know, every song with that with the Ukrainian Prime Minister Zelensky and it's kind of in his face. And I think people kind of like that. You know, it's like, you either like that rough and tumble come from the street, punch somebody in the face, attitude or you don't. And I think if you're a little bit more working class blue collar,

it appeals to you or come from that background. It certainly does appeal to me. So there's a split now of the more hawkish elites and the working class base that is taken over the party. Really. I mean, we thought that that working class base had one with Trump's reelection in 2024. And we learned the hard way that Trump was much more aligned with the hawkish elites than that base anticipated.

“Right. I totally agree. That's the mean reason. What about the fact that Marco is so damn funny?”

Is that part of it? I mean, he's charming for sure. And you know, you trust him. I did a long interview with him on Foreign Policy right after he took the job as Secretary of State. And he just he was dazzling. He's he can talk about anything and in a way that you get the first time easy to understand doesn't take himself to seriously uses words that are easy to digest. It gets up and down on a story in a way that's really digestible and consumable. So by the end of the exchange, you're like,

I like this guy. He didn't confuse me. He made sense. He didn't talk down to me, but he didn't talk over me either. He is charming and he is self-deprecating and the memes about him have made him very likable. But the question is whether these, you know, anti-neocons, the ones who hate the neocons within the Republican Party could ever vote for him. You know, could they cross over if it's down to those two? Yeah. Could they cross? Could they leave JD and vote from Marco and vice versa?

It's never going to come down to those two. It's not who's going to come down to. Either JD will

run and everybody will support him or he won't and Marco will run and everybody will support him. I'm I'm almost certain about this. We're not going to not. What if JD doesn't run and somebody like a Tulsi, a Joe Kent, even a Tucker tries to fill that space and run or a Macie. Trump Trump will endorse Marco and that'll be it. All the money, all the political support. So you don't think, okay, so let's say that happens. Yeah.

I'm very fascinated by this. Yeah. And Marco gets the nomination. Now is after the general election and you've got some 18 to 22 percent of the Republican base that hates him. That not maybe him personally, but hates his politics. And just they are

somebody come up on the other side who you just described Medicare for all, but they're not saying

the really crazy shit like pack the Supreme Court and you know Puerto Rico becomes a state, you know, they're they're within the lines, but they're totally anti Israel. What does the 22

“percent do on team GOP? Well, first of all, I think Marco would pick a running mate who would”

soften on that issue, I think. And I think he could soften on that issue. And I don't think I don't think that would be this positive. I will say, I try my heart is not to underestimate the how big this issue is. But last night, or a few nights ago, I guess in the Michigan Senate debate, when El Sad said, A pack literally like more than it does in times than it would be. And no matter what the question was, he was like, well, A pack is horrible. So I remind

myself daily, every morning I wake up, I think my thank for thankful for my family. And I say, don't underestimate the power of Israel. The issue of Israel. But I just don't know that it's going to be that this positive for Ruby Overse's a Democrat if he's the nominee for those voters that would decide the election. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. I'll give you a challenge on that. I just feel like maybe I'm just surrounded by it more, but like Israel has become such a

pariah. I just think as a politician, if you're not ready to say no to A pack money, no to backing Israel and it's next military endeavor, you're done. And keep a kidney, just say, I'm not going to take

“A pack money when I run for president. No, it has to you have to be able to sell it. Yeah. That's I mean,”

if Marco Rubio said that that that base that 22% would want to hear a lot more. They'd want to hear why. Yeah. You know, do you get it? Do you get why we've turned so much? You get why the Iran war was a bad idea. You know, all those things they're going to want to hear. I'm not sure Marco Rubio or frankly, JD even on that second question can sell it all that well. I think JD's got more wiggle room milk because he can at least say he didn't back it and he tried to stop it.

Right. Okay. All right. Everybody stand by. We're going to take a quick break. Next up more with making Calle right after this. Let's talk about life insurance. We all know we need it, but we keep putting it off because it feels pretty complicated, expensive and like something that can wait. Well, stop waiting. Take care of it today with Select Quote in just 15 minutes.

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Move from a making Callie historian to making Callie media analyst. Who's doing stuff that's just besides the two of us? Who's doing stuff in media today that's interesting to you that you think is creative, innovative, poor-tending of the future. Not in terms of content but in terms of business model and using different platforms. No one's coming to mind. All right, stop the band.

“What are you doing on TikTok? What are you doing on LinkedIn?”

A lot. Nothing on LinkedIn. I've never been on LinkedIn. I'm not on LinkedIn and I don't really understand

LinkedIn. A lot on TikTok were over there. What are your theories about what works over there for making Callie? I think just honesty. The young people today, if you try to like couch your words and all sorts of disclaimers, they are going to skip right past you. They are used to blunt force trauma in communications and I think that's one of the reasons why shows like ours and yours can work over there because we don't really dress up the message. We tell them

what's real in the world of politics or culture. The young people want it straight. They don't want a bunch of bullshit, like legal words around it and they want, I think, you know, color. They want fun. You know, you gotta keep it snappy. There's a gazillion things that they can watch over there. Whereas I think older people are used to working for it more. They're more patient. As you build a point, the young people get up and down on the point fast. Bye.

Great. See you. We're done. Legacy media. I watch our former colleagues still in Legacy trying to do TikTok and it's agony to watch what they're doing. Why can't someone at a

and make them native to these platforms. What's in the water or the dairy, the non-dairy creamer and the coffee? What is it? Well, in a way, Mark, what we've been doing for years now is it gives us an advantage in this department because being that still did news anchor doesn't work over here, we've had to shed that skin already. Here we are, naked. You know, whereas they still have all those snake layers on them. And so they cannot break through. They've been trained for

decades not to be honest about themselves. So it's impossible. It takes years of practice to shed that skin and raw and expose yourself, words and all, and then find out that you'll be okay doing that, that allows you to be the kind of communicator that's accessible and attractive on these forms.

They'll never get there. It's actually very fun. Jake Tapper. He's not a bad person, but watching

him try to do it is like, oh, it's so cringey as the kids would say. Yeah, and same with Brett, Brett is a great anchor, but I want, I want to be cloned and I want one cloned to write a book about Trump. And then I want my other cloned. So I need a couple clones. I want to go into one of these places as a consultant. And I want to spend three months trying to break them of these horrible

“habits and teach them how to be modern because I think they could do it. Why not? No, I disagree.”

It's too ingrained. No, I disagree. And I love Brett, but he was always, you know, a more serious. Like he took himself more seriously and his delivery was more serious. That was his stick. There's nothing we're always been very successful and his adhered man and a friend. But that's who he is. Like, he can be fun. Brett can be fun. He's amazing. How do it will party? Nothing you know is tickling the average. And you find that he's got all sorts of skills. He didn't know

about, but on air, he's much more comfortable with the serious, brit hum type persona. Yeah.

And that you're just never going to change that about him. So like social media is not for him.

Yeah, I mean, look, I agree with you. He's an incredibly lovely man. He's a talented man. He's a great broadcaster. And I watched him in China do a TikTok. I think it was a TikTok might have been Instagram. I forget where it was. It was a him. I had some robot making him his coffee or something. And I, I, I hope it was over. It was AI, but it was real. And it's just, it's just not his thing. But I feel like I could coach him into it. I don't think you could. In the same way, you know,

he's not going to be able to coach one of these influencers who has 20 million followers on Instagram into doing a great interview with President Zelensky. You know, that we all have our skills.

“Yeah. All right. I hear you. Summer. What's the, what's your cadence in summer? Is it different?”

Do you love summer? Hate summer? Yes. I love it. I'm not a son person. I'm really, it's a, it's funny because we go to the beach all summer. And Jersey baby. And I don't like the beach at all. I don't like the sand. I don't like sharks. I don't like the shore. I don't like the sea. I don't like the waves. So I, it's like, what am I doing here? Yeah. But I do love the warmth. I love how relaxed everything is. I love that we don't have to get up with the crack of dawn

and take our kids in the darkness to school while it's freezing and see our under rested children. Then I have to pile on facts about calculus. You know, it's like everyone's more relaxed and happier. I can squeeze in a nice like 30 minute walk before the show, as I listen to my research packets. It's not as like tense. It's just the whole new cycle is a little bit more relaxed. Yeah. You can do more culture and legal. Then when we get back, you know, the politics machine

is going to ramp back up. It's more intense. It's fun in its own way. But everything's just a little

bit more, I don't know, second gear, rather than, you know, something super high.

“You ever been to New Jersey Hall of Fame at the Xanadoo at what's the name of the mall?”

Mall of what's the mall called? What's a giant mall called near the Metaramus? No, no, the one near the Metalyns. It's called Xanadoo. Oh, another one. It's got a water park in it. It's got a water park. It's got a ski slope. Yes. No, I haven't been there. They drive a drive pass. They have the New Jersey Hall of Fame in there. Well, I don't think I'm going to make it just. Well, that's my question.

That's my question. No. Can we launch a campaign to get you in there? So not only am I not going to make it because I only spend the summers here, but I make way too much fun of New Jersey. I do it lovingly the way I make fun of myself and my family. What do you make fun of the traffic? That they're so much. I'll give you the best example. I'm constantly mocking just like, you know, the dynamic of New Jersey. It's very like spiked hair and overly tan with

white beater shirts on. That's not how everybody is, but that's the reputation of the Jersey Shore. Yeah, like a less classy long island. Yes. And Doug says we only brought property here so that I could mock it. But that's not true. I was mocking it long before we owned. But one time we were on the way past Newark to the Jersey Shore and you passed that disgusting horrible power plant type

got to a website that that was called why do people hate New Jersey? And the first entry

“asked the question, where do all the terrible things from New Jersey come from? And the first comment”

responded from people who have been there. That was just like on some on some website called why hate New Jersey? Yes. Anyway, I only say that to keep people out because I love it so much. I don't want it to be overrun like the terrible Hamptons. Yeah. But I secretly love New Jersey and I love spending summers down here. Yeah. The malls called the American Dream mall. I recommend the Jersey Hall of Fame. I do love a great water park. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're going down those

shoots that you know are covered with feces and urine and you don't even care. It's fun. And if I live past today, I'll live forever. Do you have a favorite Jersey Shore board walk? Oh, I mean wildwood

and seaside heights. I grew up going to seaside heights, which is I mean this is 1983 with the half

shirt with the fringe that comes down below with it said wildwood or said seaside heights. And you know you guys would cruise chicks and we'd cruise dudes. You know, that's where you just kind

“of hope to be noticed by one. But really you're in awkward 13-year-olds. So like even the 13-year-old”

boys, they don't know what they're doing. So you're not going to get crueced by anybody. You just feel hot and that song, don't you want me? You know, I can't believe it. When that one's playing on the, and then you get going the rollercoaster and you feel like you're alive, come on, that's big living mark. Do you enforce a bedtime for the kids in summer? No, no bedtime. No. So Ali, Ali, we haven't been this summer and it's gotten a little out of control. Like I'm falling asleep

and James is like, what's next? Oh, no. Well, we have to entertain themselves. I mean, we're not entertaining, man, but yeah, no, no, no. But down here, they're involved in like they sail and they play tennis and now my older two have jobs. So like they've gotten past the point where they're going to stay up till two in the morning because they've realized the way you and I do. Yeah. You feel bad the next day. Yeah. And we do, are you like we were when you were

kid, do you look at the calendar and think, oh my god, it's almost Labor Day and you'll be sad. Yes. Yes. As soon as we hit July 4th, it feels like summer's over. Yeah. Done. When it was me, why have you just gotten started? Right. The dreaded August 1st comes and you know, our schools don't start until Labor Day. So it's like you still have a whole, like if somebody came to your kids in February and said, would you like five weeks off, they'd be in Shangri-La.

Somehow August 1st feels like it's all over in any event. It's not all over and I love August too. And in fact, August can be really nice of the shore because all the college kids wind up going back to college very soon and the traffic light ends up and it gets an even more relaxed atmosphere the way my husband who grew up coming down here tells me it used to be when he was a kid. I grew up playing in my parents backyard with a sprinkler mark helper and I didn't come from a

silver spoon. Same thing with me. I never never went anywhere. Do you have a house guest? You

pro or anti house guests? We do. We do have house guests not too many. You know, you don't want too many.

“Do you take care of me tell them they're on their own?”

All right. I have to admit the truth. I'm not a very good hostess which I disclose to people very early on and they're they're staying. So what do they have? What are they on their own for? You get all their food by themselves or you do that for them? No, I mean if it's like friends, you know, we'll have meals together or I'll have somebody here. I'm not much of a cook. So I will cook occasionally or I'll have somebody cook. Just don't expect like a stupid little welcome

basket in your guest bedroom. I don't know. You're lucky if I managed to get in there with a fresh bar of soap in your shower before like that. I feel like Martha Stewart if I remember it too. But like what you do that activities for him is that like today we're going to this place or they're on their own for that. Down here you don't really have to do that. So if they they bring their kids, we'll just let them know. Here are the things you can do. Yeah. I definitely

don't want to entertain somebody else's children. But like with the grown-ups at this point, you know our kids are all like young teens with the grown-ups. Yeah, we'll arrange, you know, one of the things we do is we'll take the boat to Atlantic City. Now that's good times. What kind of boat is that? Go in there. You parked the boat. My dog has a boat. My husband has a boat. And you go in there and if you call a head, they'll let you dock up. And you go in there. You could

spend just one hour. You just go in. You sit at the blackjack table. If you're there in the middle of the day, you can get $15 tables, which isn't so bad. You're going to Vegas on a dollar table. You can cover your nut for about three months with some winning. Yes. Yes, my brother, who's he lives in Atlanta. He came and he was doing this system where you bet your 15 bucks.

like he would take away a couple, you know, just to hedge the bet. But the bet will keep growing

“to the point where we were at a $500 maximum table. He had to start taking money off because he was”

winning. And in one hour, he made a couple thousand bucks. He was so thrilled. We got back on the boat.

Like fan it out, fan it out. We fans it out. A huge gust comes along. No. And he goes to risky.

“But it was so fun. I think you're going to tell me the money blew off the boat. That was going to be”

a good cinematic ending. I couldn't have enjoyed it more. And if I end up writing a history book based on the stuff he said, I'm going to put you right in the acknowledgements. I'm honored. I think

“you do better with my husband. But I'll I'll take it mark out. And you always do a snazzy interview.”

And like you said, you do as the questions. Nobody else has asked. So I try for every time as you know, Megan, thank you. Great to have you on and great to see you. See you soon. Megan's program again. Watch it. Listen to it every day. Live on Series XM or whenever you want on demand. That's a way life works. It's triumphant. 11, Series XM from 12 to noon. He 12 to two Eastern or on demand. Wherever you get your video podcast or your audio podcast. That's it for today's program.

We'll be back on Tuesday. Thank you, Megan. Back on Tuesday, brand new episode.

Subscribe to next up on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. So you always know what's coming next up.