INTRODUCING: The Final Hours

- True story, media.

“- Hello, it's Andrea and today we have a collab”

that feels like it's been a long time coming.

That is my crossover episode with Sarah Turnney and Courtney Nicole of the Final Hour's podcast. Sarah and Courtney are two of my favorite creators in the space because like me, they talk about true crime from the perspective

of having lived through it as family members. So today we are sharing a special crossover episode of their show The Final Hour's where we discuss one of the most famous missing children's stories in recent history,

the Madeleine McCann case. And then it's stay tuned tomorrow when we are gonna be having Sarah and Courtney on for an in-depth discussion about the cases in their own families that brought them to true crime.

Well, we think true crime could do better and so much more. I really love talking to these ladies.

As always, if you want more,

you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Patreon

“to get our twice monthly subscribers show.”

Nobody should believe me after hours. This month we're talking about the documentary. Trust me, the false profit, which I highly recommend. And we also have an episode coming up on the Netflix film Maternal Instinct,

which many of you requested. You will also get ad free listening over there and binge listening whenever we have a new series. If monetary support is not an option, you can always head over and leave us a five star review

on Apple or Spotify or tell a friend about the show. Those are also great ways to help. As is just tuning in each week, we're so happy you're here. We'll be right back.

This is crime house. It's 2007. You're on prior to lose on the Southern Coast of Portugal, specifically at a popular resort called The Ocean Club. The kind of place that checks every box

for a family vacation. On one side of the pool are kids clubs, tennis courts, a tapestress, drawn and a bar. On the other, spacious apartments with verandas, full kitchens, and multiple bedrooms.

Adventures nearby if you want them. But really, this is a place for people who love routine. Wake up, breakfast, drop off the kids of the club, play tennis, step by and by the pool, repeat.

By day six of their trip, the McCann family had that routine dialed in. They've been eating dinner with their friends at the resort's topest restaurant every night. It's just 180 feet away from their apartment.

So every half hour, they take turns checking in on the kids. But on that night, Thursday, May 3rd, 2007, Kate McCann enters the apartment for the 10 pm check. And that's when she finds the window and shutters push open. Enter three-year-old daughter's bed is empty.

Despite a massive international search, nobody has been able to find Madeline McCann for 19 years. Making her case one of the most infamous international searches in history.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Every year, over half a million people go missing,

and that's just in the United States alone. Most of those stories barely get a headline. Some don't even get a tip line. And when cases do get media attention, we usually only get the broad strokes.

But for those of us who have lived these true crime cases, we know the devils and the details. This is the final hours, a crime house original powered by paved studios. I'm Sarah Turnney.

And I'm Courtney Nicole. Today, we've got something really special in store. We're joined by Andrea Dunlop, host of the podcast, nobody should believe me, and author of some incredible books, like the Mother Next Door, women or the fiercest creatures,

and we came here to forget. Like us, Andrea also has a unique connection to the true crime world. And she's channeling that firsthand experience to educate people about the dangers of munchausens

by proxy. Hi, Andrea. Welcome to the podcast. Hi. Hi, Courtney.

Hi, Sarah. Thank you so much for having me. It's really a pleasure to be on with you today. Yeah, thank you for being here.

“Do you want to tell us a little bit about your background?”

Yeah, absolutely so much, as you said in the intro. And as YouTube both have, I have a connection to true crime in the world, and it being covered in the media. And so my show nobody should believe me. I started it about four years ago now to explore munchausens

by proxy abuse, which is a form of abuse in which a caregiver either fabricates exaggerates or induces illness usually in a small child. It's usually committed by mothers. And there was a case of the abuse in my family.

That was never resolved.

And that really took me on this whole journey.

“And now we are seven seasons in and going strong.”

And yeah, it was an unexpected career pivot for sure. But it's I'm really happy to be on with fellow creators that really care about this space and care about doing it right. And obviously know what it's like to have your own family covered in the media and not such a responsible way.

And that is so I'm glad you guys are doing this work and happy to be here with you. It's a club nobody really wants to be in, but we're really happy to have you here. Crime House exists because of listeners like you.

Want even more? Join Crime House plus and get every episode of the final hours and the rest of the Crime House in line up, add free and early, plus at least two bonus episodes every month.

To join, go to crimehouseplus.com or if you listen on Apple Podcasts, tap try free at the top of the final hour show page.

As always, this show is made and recorded by humans, not AI.

Today, Andrea is going to help us discuss the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. As Courtney and I take you through the case, Andrea will join in to give her thoughts on the investigation.

In May 2007, three-year-old Madeleine was on a resort vacation in Portugal

“with her family and three other families they were close with.”

On the evening of May 3rd, she had a long, exciting day, wound down with milk and then her parents tucked her into bed. Unfortunately, that would be the last good night for the McCanns. To this day, they continued to search for answers

in their daughter's disappearance. Summer is going by so fast, but not too fast for a wardrobe refresh. And I have two fun quints out in the wild stories for you. I was emailing with a doctor friend who's been on the show

and while we were not primarily discussing fashion, he told me that he was looking for some linen pants for his upcoming travel and did I sincerely recommend

the brand quints that I was always talking about on the show.

And I told him, yes, I do, Dr. Booz. I love quints. I love their linen pants in particular. My producer, Mariah loves their linen pants. Quints linen for everyone.

Also, I have talked about how much I love quints as Italian leather handbags. And I saw one of my neighbors wearing the quints sling bag in cognac out at our towns,

“fourth of July parade, and it looked so chic and cool”

that I went and bought one for myself. Seriously, so many people I know love this brand and for a good reason, everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories

and cut out the middleman so that your paying for quality not brand markup. And they have so much to choose from. So whether you're looking for last minute, some are essentials like swimmar or sunglasses,

or if you're already looking at fall with their cashmere sweaters and outerwear, accessories, home goods, they've got you. So upgrade your everyday. Go to quints.com/belief for free shipping

on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's qu-i-n-c-e.com/belief for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com/belief.

And remember that shopping our sponsors is a great way to support the ship. At the heart of Madeline McCann's case lies one of our most primal fears. Losing a young child from a place we consider

papian safe. She was a three year old on vacation with her siblings, her parents, and three other families with young kids. They chose a resort built specifically for families.

Kids clubs play grounds, kiddie pools, nurseries, and yet that's where she was taken, right out of her bed. It reads like a nightmare, but that's not how Madeline's life began. Before we get into what happened,

let's talk about who this little girl was. It's the spring of 2007. Three-year-old Madeline Beth McCann lives with her two-year-old twin siblings and her parents and less-disher England.

Her mom, 39-year-old Kate, is a general physician. Her dad, 38-year-old Jerry, is a consultant cardiologist. Kate and Jerry met in 1993 when they were both 24, living in Glasgow after graduating

with their medical degrees. Their social circles overlap constantly. They kept ending up at the same events. In December 1998, after five years together, they got married and liverpool.

Kate always dreamed of a big family,

but getting pregnant didn't come easy, so she underwent IVF. When it finally worked, it felt like a miracle. Madeline Beth McCann was born on Monday, May 12th, 2003.

From the start, she was outgoing and full of life. She had a great sense of humor, love to chat, and made friends easily, with both adults and kids. She was into pink and sparkles and dolls and dresses, but she also had a ton of energy.

Running, swimming, she was always up for an adventure. And Kate and Jerry were absolutely crazy about her, but they wanted that big family, so Kate did IVF again. On February 1st, 2005, she had twins,

Even at 20 months old, Madeline took the big sister role very seriously.

“- Man, I think there's something really special”

about growing up with siblings. I have two little brothers and one older sister, and although I didn't really grow up with my little brothers because of a big age gap, the bond, we all have is really unlike any other,

and we still learn a lot from each other to this day. - Yeah, I obviously have a more complex relationship with having a sibling. I am a stranger from my sibling, and I will say also though that because those events

that caused that estrangement happened much later in our lives, I was 28 when we became estranged, and our relationship was pretty strained throughout my 20s, 'cause of the events that led up to this whole situation. And at the same time, I have so many good memories

of actually growing up with my sister. I think it's one of the things that I simultaneously can feel confusing and also that I hold on to, because I did get to have those really nice childhood experiences of having someone to play with who is very close to the age,

who are less than two years apart, especially going on vacations together. Like, I have so many good memories of that. I have two kids, so I'm watching them navigate, having a sibling, which they're four and seven,

so it's one second there, best buddies and co-conferitors,

and then the next second there, like doing a WWF reenactment on our couch, but it's such a joy to watch them together. So yeah, certainly, certainly a big part of your life growing up no matter what.

- Yeah, I'm in the same boat, the youngest of six, but due to my sister's case, we are a strain from each other now.

“It's just, I think, just so heartbreaking,”

how true crime can break up family. So I think it happens more often than not, unfortunately. I see this all the time with families in true crime, but I mean to your point, I think growing up with siblings,

and when you're young, and you don't know that any of these things, there is a lot of magic to that. - Yeah, and Sarah, did you have, do you still have all those,

like, how do you feel about those good memories in light of what happened as adults? - Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to have them, you know what I mean? It is bittersweet, you look back, and you think, you know, what if we were close today,

and what might that evolve into? But at the very least, I am grateful for good memories with my siblings. - Also, Andrea, I love the abroad-up having kids. I also have three kids, and they're all little as well.

And it's really cool to, like, look back on your own childhood and like, having those special moments with your siblings, and then now watching that same thing take place with your kids, it's like a really special thing to live through and like, to view.

- Yeah, it is really special. And I think, you know, it's so, like, the other things, Sarah, like, that I found to, like, a lot of, you know, we have really dramatic stories about becoming a strange from our siblings,

but people become a strange or different part for all kinds of reasons as adults. And so, I think it's like, yeah, like, that time when you're a child with your sibling is really magical, and like, that's special, even if you don't, you know,

aren't always that close.

You know, hopefully you are, like, of course, I hope my children will be best friends forever, but, you know, that won't always be under our control. - By all accounts, the McHan House was full of laughter. Caten Jerry loves spending time together as a family.

So when their friends Fiona and David Payne invited them on a spring vacation on New Year's Day 2007, it didn't take much convincing. Plus, they had two young kids as well. Two-year-old Lily and one-year-old Scarlett.

The Payne's are planning a week at a Mark Warner brand resort in the All-Gar region of Southern Portugal called The Ocean Club. Caten Jerry had traveled with them before. The resort had a good reputation, sports facilities,

and things for the kids to do.

“The only thing that gave Cate Pause was the price tag,”

but the rest of the group talked her into it. They're ended up being four families in total. The McHan's, the Payne's, Rachel and Matt Olmfield with their toddler grace, and Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien with their three-year-old daughter Ella

and that they even younger Evie. Matt Olmfield was thrilled. She couldn't stop talking about it at her daycare. When Cate picked her up, her caregivers would say things like, "I hear you're going to Portugal,

or someone can't wait for her holiday." Do you guys have any memories like this growing up? Like, just something you were so excited about as a kid that I don't know was just super exciting? - Yes, going to Disneyland, we would do it every summer,

and my favorite thing was the Smash Penny's. Like, I didn't realize that we didn't have a lot of money, right? So it was like a very easy souvenir, but I would spend weeks collecting these shiniest pennies, like cleaning the dirty ones and getting ready.

I loved going on vacation. - Yeah, same. Vacations were so fun. I was one of those main character syndrome girls who was like, "I gotta get out of my small town."

And so like, I was always like looking forward

to having these adventures, and actually, you know, my,

and like one time I remember, I made, you know, those like construction paper rings that you make in a big thing to count down, like I would do that, and also, you know, understand you're just talking about siblings.

You know, my sister and I, because we were so close in age, like a lot of times we'd be like kind of battling it out,

but then we always got along so well on vacation,

and actually we're about to leave for a vacation with my two tomorrow or on Sunday, and so I'm really hoping that that holds. I'm like, I hope that you guys are just like, yes, siblings on vacation are only happy,

and not even for my fingers crossed for you. - Yeah. - You never know how that's gonna go. - Yeah, pray for me. - I belong, Carter.

- Oh, for sure. - Yeah, I remember being really little, and my mom would usually wait until the day we were supposed to go somewhere, usually we'd always take vacations to Silverwood and Idaho, I didn't ever go to Disneyland,

so Silverwood was like my Disneyland, but she would literally wait until the day before to tell us to get us excited, and I vividly remember not being able to fall asleep that entire night, because I was just so excited, and I don't know,

it was like that child-like excitement, too, so it was like super intense,

“and I can only imagine that's what Madeleine was feeling”

in this moment, too. - Yeah, and I love that her daycare teachers were hyping her up, that's so cute. - Well, they were more than ready to go. On Saturday, April 28th, 2007,

the pains arrived with them, Kansas, before 7 a.m. and even not early, the kids were buzzing. The two families drove to East Midlands airport together, had breakfast and flew to Portugal. The old fields and the Obrians were flying out

of a different airport, so they all meet up at the resort. The McHans and Pains arrived at the Ocean Club and pried the loose around 3 p.m.

After a second, a resort mini bus took them to their apartments,

a low-rise block where each family had their own unit. They can access them from the road out front through a small parking lot, but after the first couple of days, nobody really used that entrance. They came and went through the back patio doors.

Outback, the apartments overlooks a pool area with a bar in tennis courts. Each brand that opened onto a narrow access path that ran along the length of the block, though there wasn't an entrance from the path into the pool area itself.

To get there, you had to go to the road and use the main entrance. The McHans had a ground floor corner unit, nicer than they'd expected. Kate and the Pains ocean view from the second floor,

but she was glad not to have to worry about the kids near a balcony. Kate and Jerry's room was toward the back of the apartment. The children slept in the front bedroom, nearest the front door, which the McHans kept locked.

The kids room had a window and exterior roller shutter,

which they always kept shut as well.

“And that's how it was meant to stay all week.”

Since the set up meant the room stayed dark, Kate and Jerry always left the kids bedroom door cracked to let some light in. Little did they know that same door would be a telltale clue later in the week.

(dramatic music) Summer is going by so fast, but not too fast for a wardrobe refresh. And I have two fun quints out in the wild stories for you. I was emailing with a doctor friend who's been on the show,

and while we were not primarily discussing fashion, he told me that he was looking for some linen pants for his upcoming travel and did I sincerely recommend the brand quints that I was always talking about on the show. And I told him, "Yes, I do, Dr. Booz.

I love quints. I love their linen pants in particular. My producer, Mariah loves their linen pants. Quints linen for everyone. Also, I have talked about how much I love quints

as Italian leather handbags. And I saw one of my neighbors wearing the quints sling bag in cognac out at our towns, fourth of July parade, and it looked so chic and cool that I went and bought one for myself.

Seriously, so many people I know love this brand and for a good reason, everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They worked directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman so that your paying for quality

not brand markup. And they have so much to choose from. So whether you're looking for last minute, some are essentials like swimmar or sunglasses, or if you're already looking at fall

with their cashmere sweaters and outerwear, accessories, home goods, they've got you. So upgrade your everyday. Go to quints.com/believe for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's qu-i-n-c-e.com/believe for free shipping and 365 day returns.

“Quints.com/believe and remember that shopping”

our sponsors is a great way to support the ship. On Saturday, April 28, 2007, the first day of their vacation. The McCann's reorganized their sleeping arrangements and unpacked some essentials. After getting settled, they joined the rest

of the group by the pool. The other two families had already beaten them there. Kate took a quick dip with Madeline, even though the water was freezing. That evening, they went to a welcome meeting

with the Mark Warner team. Got the rundown on all the facilities and events and figured out dinner. Their first night, they walked to the Millennium Restaurant.

It was nearly half a mile away.

“Getting a pack of exhausted toddlers there”

and both a lot of stopping and carrying. And by the time they got back, everyone was wiped out. Not to mention, the kids bedtime was an hour behind schedule. But they did find an alternative. Right across the pool from their apartment

was a small outdoor topist restaurant. Canopyde and incredibly close 15 seats max. Reservations had to be made the day up, but they got lucky and got one for the next night. The plan, kids have their tea early, play for a bit,

go to bed at their usual time. Then the adults eat later. No, over tired toddlers, no half mile march with a stroller. All four families also booked their kids into the resort clubs for the week.

Madeline went to the mini club for three to five year olds, a sunlight room above the 24-hour reception. Her friend L.O. was there too. Even though they hadn't seen each other in months, they clicked immediately.

Madeline also took a liking to their sign nanny, as did Kate. Dropping the kids off gave Kate and Jerry a rare stretch of quality time together. They went for runs, played tennis, and signed up for group lessons for the rest of the week.

By day three, their vacation routine clicked into plays. Breakfast at the apartment, clubs for the kids, tennis and downtime for the parents, family lunch, afternoon activities, then high T-5 p.m. where the nanny's brought out all the kids

to meet their parents near the top of Syria. The quick run around the play area, then bedtime. And despite the restaurant's no advance reservations rule, one of the moms Rachel convinced the receptionist otherwise. She agreed to hold their table at 8.30 p.m.

every night for the rest of the week. - Well, one of the questions that I had for you, Andrea, have you ever seen in cases like this specifically where this type of routine works like every single night. On a vacation, have you ever seen someone

like that be weaponized against the parents or the people involved? - Yeah, I haven't seen something where I've just seen sort of people do that double thing like I, one of the things I think about a lot is like, you know, I'll see these stories

that get rewritten as false allegations. And like the first story about the parents will be their mug shots and the description from the police and people are like, these people are horrible throw them off of building.

And then, you know, that turns around. And then it's like, oh, no, look, they were falsely accused by conspiracy of doctors and then people are like, these poor people throw the doctors off of building. You know, and I'm like, I don't think either of these

is the right way to respond.

And I think it's always just better if you can take a beat

“and remember that everyone involved is a human”

and keep everyone's humanity at the center and keep your compassion at the center. By now, the evening routine looks something like this. Around 6 pm each night, the kids would start winding down back at their apartments.

Then the cans had their own little bedtime ritual, milk and stories before falling asleep. In Portugal, they were always down by 7 or 7-15 since they had exciting packed days with no naps. Sean and Omelay were excellent sleepers.

And if Madeline never woke up at night, it was always in the early hours of the morning. Rarely before two or three. So after putting the kids to bed, Kate and Jerry showered and got dressed for dinner.

Then they enjoyed a glass of wine together in their apartment before locking over to the tapas restaurant. At that time, most Mark Warner resorts offered a baby listening service, which meant members of the staff would listen at guest stores to make sure none of the children inside had woken up.

But since the ocean club was more spread out than other Mark Warner resorts, it didn't offer the baby listening service.

“And remember, this was 2007, so video baby monitors were pretty expensive”

and didn't have great range. There definitely weren't the ones you could check from your cell phone. The hotel did offer a night nursery from 7-30 to 11pm. But since it opened after the my can children needed to be in bed, it didn't feel like the best option.

They figured with the restaurant so close to their apartments, the families would just do their own child checks. Aside from the pains, who did have a fancy new video monitor. The other three families each sent a parent back to their own apartment every half hour to check on the kids.

Kate and Jerry made sure one of them laid eyes on all three children every single time. The apartments were less than a minute away from the topest restaurant, and pretty visible from the outdoor seating. Besides, the resort was very child friendly and full of families like theirs, so they properly figured what could go wrong.

For the first few nights, the answer was nothing.

So understandably, the McHans got comfortable with this method by day five when they may second. In fact, instead of heading back to the apartments after dinner that night, the adults went to the bar for a night cab. That stretched the gap between the last child check and actually getting home to about 45 minutes, instead of the usual half hour.

Around 11.50pm, Jerry and Kate went back to their room after a little tiff. She stayed in the kids room with them that night. The next morning, Thursday may third, everyone's up by 7.30am. At breakfast, Madeline asked her parent something that stops them cold. "Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?"

one of those half-hour checks, one let alone two of their children would have woken up,

“cried and sued themselves back to sleep, especially without anyone noticing.”

Kate's also certain that nobody cried while she was sleeping in the room. When they asked Madeline at what point in the night she's referring to, she doesn't elaborate. She just moves on to the next thing. That morning follows the usual routine. Kids clubs and tennis.

Some of the group floats the idea of canceling that night's reservation and going to the millennium restaurant instead. Another couple at the resort had tried to book the top of the restaurant and couldn't get in. And with her group taking up most of the 15 seats, they felt a bit guilty. But they inevitably stick to the plan.

After her tennis lesson, Kate walks with Fiona Payne to pick up Madeline and Scarlet from their club. Fiona mentioned she'd been win surfing that morning and spotted Madeline's club group down the beach for a mini sale activity, a speedboat and dinghy excursion. She saw Ella there, but not Madeline. What do you guys think of these clues? I mean like we've said so many times hindsight is 2020,

but what do you think of these small little things? Do you think at the time you would think

“they are red flags or just you know random things that kids do?”

I think leaving kids that young where you can't hear them is I don't think it's a great idea. But I can see how you would talk yourself into it and kind of be like this is fine. We're being overly anxious or whatever or let's not be over anxious. But then I think the minute my kid says something to me like hey why didn't you come when I cried like last night? I would have been like what that's it? Like I'm not going out to dinner anymore

because I would just be like oh this is the thing that I would be worried about happening, which is your kid needs you for something and you're not there. Yeah and so I do agree with you. I do think that's a really a young age to leave them especially where you can't hear that I don't want to criticize these parents they've been through the unimaginable. Well another this points to an abduction for me like a three-year-old

having mysterious stain on their pajamas I'm not going to think she could be abducted. Well the unfortunate reality is that people who take these positions with kids are sometimes

“predators too that's how predators get close to children is oftentimes they work with them. I”

used to work with kids in foster care and we would unfortunately see that. I mean you know with kids comes the predators who don't want to harm them unfortunately. Especially these parents too like they specifically picked this resort because it's very family-oriented and like had a known reputation for being safe and all of these kids you know activities and like all of the stuff and so I feel like they really did their research when going here and it's just sad because

the truth is like you never know what's going to happen and you never know the dangerous people

that could be lurking in any given situation anywhere. After lunch and a trip to the toddler pool Kate and Jerry drop all three kids back at their clubs and head to the tennis courts for their lesson. Afterward Jerry stays to play around while Kate goes for a run along the beach. By 530 p.m. Kate finishes her run and finds Madeline in the twins already at the top area with Jerry having their tea but Madeline looks pale and exhausted. Kate asks if she's okay.

Madeline says she was fine when Ella left but now she's really tired. 10 minutes later Kate carries her back to the apartment cutting the day short a little early. That evening just after 830 p.m. Jerry checks on the kids one last time before they head off to dinner. He and Kate exit through the back patio doors same as the nights before. Bailey the lamp on and living room closed the curtains on the glass doors for privacy and shut the doors without locking them.

The child safety gates at the top and bottom of the Miranda steps are both closed too. Over dinner Kate and Jerry mentioned what Madeline said at breakfast about crying in the night. Nobody wants their child waking up and wondering where their parents are. So tonight everyone agrees to be prompt with their checks. Just before 905 p.m. Jerry finishes ordering and heads back

for the first check. He goes through the patio doors and almost immediately he notices the

children's bedroom door is further open than they left it. He peeks into the master bedroom first in case Madeline wandered into her parents bed to sleep but she's not there. She's still in the front bedroom with her siblings, sound asleep so it's strange that the door was open wider than usual. Nonetheless Madeline is in the exact same position as when they left her and Jerry pauses for a moment thinking how beautiful she looks. Then he puts the door back to its original cracked position.

He uses the bathroom and heads back out. At 930 p.m. Kate stands up to do the next check.

apartment is right next door so he offers to pop into their room and do the check for the

“mechanics. Kate hesitates but she doesn't want to seem in her words silly by insisting on going”

herself so she lets him. When Matt comes back he tells them everything's quiet. Though he admits the only listen outside the door and didn't actually go inside. Then a half hour later at 10 p.m. Kate goes back herself. She enters through the patio doors and stands in the sitting room listening. All is quiet but some things off. The children's bedroom door is now wide open so she walks over and closes it but she notices that it slams shut with a bang almost like there's a draft in the room.

There's a reason for that. The window was open in the kid's room and windows she was sure they closed before leaving. So Kate pushes the bedroom door back open and looks toward Madeline's bed. It's dark and she doesn't want to turn the light and wake the kids so she gives her eyes a moment to adjust. She sees the twins sleeping soundly but Madeline is gone.

“Summer is going by so fast but not too fast for a wardrobe refresh and I have two fun”

twins out in the wild stories for you. I was emailing with a doctor friend who's been on the show and while we were not primarily discussing fashion he told me that he was looking for some linen pants for his upcoming travel and did I sincerely recommend the brand quince that I was

always talking about on the show and I told him yes I do doctor boo's. I love quince. I love

their linen pants in particular. My producer Moriah loves their linen pants quince linen for everyone. Also I have talked about how much I love quince's Italian leather handbags and I saw one of my neighbors wearing the quince's sling bag in cognac out at our towns fourth of July parade and it looked so chic and cool that I went and bought one for myself. Seriously so many people I know love this brand and for a good reason everything at quince is priced 50 to 80 percent less

than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middle man so that you're paying for quality not brand markup and they have so much to choose from. So whether you're looking for last minute summer essentials like swimmar sunglasses or if you're already looking at fall with their cashmere sweaters and outerwear accessories home goods they've got you. So upgrade your everyday go to quince.com/belief for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/belief for free shipping and 365 day returns.

“Quince.com/belief and remember the shopping our sponsors is a great way to support the ship.”

It's Thursday, May 3rd, 2007, just after 10pm. Kate McCann has just realized Madeline is missing. She tears through the apartment. The master bedroom, the wardrobe, the kitchen cabinets, the bathroom. Then she runs back into the children's room. As she steps inside, the curtains fly up in a gust of wind. The window behind them is wide open. The outside shutters are raised all the way. Kate switches into the clear headed the adrenaline field focus that can only

come with her years of medical training. She blast through the rest of the apartment one more time. Then she raises out the patio doors and sprints to the top of the restaurant. As soon as she can see the table, she starts screaming that Madeline is gone. That someone has taken her. The whole group is on their feet instantly, racing back to the McCann's apartment. Jerry goes through his own stage of denial doing his own checks. Meanwhile, Kate is out in the

parking lot screaming Madeline's name. From inside the kid's room, Jerry closes the open window shutter. Then steps outside and finds it can also be raised from there. He, David, Russell and Matt split into pairs and searched the neighboring apartment blocks. They're back within minutes. No Madeline. Just after 10pm, Jerry sends Matt to the 24-hour reception to have staff call the police. The Mark Warner employees round up as many callings as they can, including off-duty workers

and team members just finishing shifts. Around 10.30pm, they activate Mark Warner's missing child protocol and organize a company search of the resort and its surroundings. At 11.10pm, two officer show up from Logo's, the nearest town about four miles away, but these aren't criminal investigators. They're GNR, the Guarta, Nassio Null, Republicana, essentially military police. Their duties include things like highway patrol and crowd control. They also handle law enforcement

and more rural areas and can make a rest. But they don't handle serious criminal investigations like this is about to be. The main force that investigates crimes, the policia judici area, or PJ, doesn't arrive until about 1am.

Could setting the wrong police unit have been a critical failure point in Madeline's investigation?

person case. But I do think this happens more often than people realize, especially those first few hours when everyone is still trying to figure out what they're dealing with. I mean, at this point in time, nobody knew how big this case was going to get. And I think that they're fighting like two realities, right? We know that most kids who are missing come back and they're found and it's not a huge deal, but also that those first few hours and preserving a crime scene are

extremely critical. So it's like which do you choose? Well, looking like I have a question for

you guys, what do you make of the dad's story about the door being wider open? That would freak me out, I think. My thing is, like, if you have a three-year-old that can get in and out of bed, right, I'm assuming, who's to say she didn't walk out, grab a glass of water and come back. Like that seems like a very normal thing for a child to do or use the restroom, right? Just leave

“the room and come back and that's why the door would open. That would be my first assumption.”

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would right away go to like something terrible has happened. I think I would be so paranoid. I just think like I would be so in maybe I'm just imposing like that I would be so anxious if I left my kids by themselves. And I mean, yeah, like there are these other pieces, right? Like it's, and again, not to just like really criticize the parents, but I think like, you know, you wonder, like, why does the mom override her instinct to go check

on her, especially if she wasn't feeling well? Like, I think that's also like, you know, they're saying like, she isn't feeling great that day and they kind of went in a little early. I wonder if they just didn't register anything could have been wrong or maybe they just felt extremely safe there because I remember them saying that they were jealous of their friends

ocean view on the second floor, but they felt much safer on the ground level because there's

no balcony that they have to worry about, which I totally get, like, that is a big worry with little kids. So I'm wondering if it just didn't register with them, but I feel like if that was

“me and I saw the door, I think I'd be opposite. I would, my mind would immediately go, like,”

someone's been in here. Like, I think I'm just overly paranoid at them. When I see that, I'm like, okay, that's not normal. Like, alerts going off, but now that we kind of know everything about this case, like it's hard to distinguish what little clues could have been wrong from the get-go, rather than just the noise. Well, we know one way that delay hurt Madeline's case. There was no crime scene tape on her bedroom for the first three hours of the search.

Jerry did everything he could to keep people from disturbing the room, but it's fair to say some things might have been compromised. By the time the PJ have secured the perimeter, somebody is already ready to give a witness statement. The McCann's friend and travel companion, Jean Tanner, who was with him at dinner. Jean says around 9.15 pm, while she was on her way back to check on her kids, Jean spotted a man crossing the street in front of the McCann's apartment.

He was walking away, carrying what appeared to be a sleeping child. At that moment, she assumed

“it was a dad taking his kid home from the night nursery, but the second she heard Madeline was missing,”

it clicked. Around 3am on Friday, May 4th, just a few hours into the investigation, the PJ officers call it quits for the night. They tell the McCanns they'll be back later after 9am and leave. By this point, they'd only spent two hours on the scene. The search that follows is slow and frustrating to say the least. nowhere near the scale the McCann's feel the situation demands. Their told two patrol dogs were brought in on Friday at 2am, and four search

and rescue dogs were brought in at 8am, but if there were police searches overnight, Kate and Jerry didn't see them. In the meantime, the McCann's move apartments, as there's is now a crime scene. It's not until later that morning that police collect Madeline's pink princess blanket, so the dogs can sniff her scent. That's also when a forensic team comes out to the apartment, and the GNR asks for more details on Madeline's description. Around 10am, a couple

of PJ officers show up, and say they need to take the McCann's in per questioning, along with all three families they traveled with. The British council meets them at the police station for interviews that last into the evening. On Saturday May 5th, the PJ releases a public statement. Their theory is that Madeline was abducted by a stranger, and is still alive, possibly for ransom. The grounds are transferred about a week without any luck

before police announced that they're winding it down on May 10th. Then, on May 14th, 11 days after Madeline's

disappearance, police bring in their first suspect. A local 33-year-old named Robert Murat,

he lives in a place about 450 feet from the McCann's resort apartment. The ocean club is not rolled in, like other resorts. It's integrated into the town on residential streets, so Robert has nothing to do with the ocean club, he's just a neighbor. The same day he's questioned, they search his house and car, drained his swimming pool, and confiscate his electronic devices. But they don't find any evidence tying him to Madeline. Interestingly enough,

there is a connection between Robert and Kate McCann. On the morning of May 4th, when GNR officers

Robert volunteered to translate. Robert says he wanted to help because Madeline reminds him of his own

daughter. They're around the same age and looks similar, which makes it even easier to imagine himself in the McCann's position. This doesn't clear him of his suspect status, though. On May 16th, 13 days after the disappearance, the McCann set up Madeline's fund financed their own search efforts. Several celebrities donate and help amplify Madeline's story. The McCanns are still in Portugal by the way, so they can stay present for the investigation.

But after that day, the police don't communicate with the McCanns for almost a month. They're left wondering why, and it's painful. Finally, on Thursday, September 6th, the PJ interrogates Kate and Jerry, and the next day, Friday, September 7th, 2007, something really gut-wrenching happens. Kate and Jerry are named as formal suspects and connection with their own daughter's disappearance, and they say some of it has to do with the

way Kate was grieving. Do you guys think there's a right way for a mother really anyone to

“grieve? No. What was it specifically that people were criticizing her for? I think it was like”

she wasn't crying enough for them, which is what I always hear that drives me insane. Like what is

the right amount of crying? And also, I think there's a multitude of factors happening here. Like one, these are both medical professionals who are trained to, you know, kind of curb their emotions in high stress situations. So they have that training, right? And two, I know from my personal experience going on camera advocating for a missing loved one. My focus is, I need to get this message across. I need to get people to care, right? And if I start crying, that all goes at the window

for me. So I really have a hard time judging people with how they grieve, because I think everybody does a different. Yeah, and I don't know what I would be like if this happened to me. I mean, I think some people, like you said, everyone handles grief differently, and some people really shut down. Some people are very stoic. Yeah, I think especially doctors who are used to having to manage their emotions. Like, I think people don't know. It's like, it's very easy to be like,

well, if I was in that situation, I would do X1Z and it's like, you don't know. Like, we don't act how we think we're going to act in these situations. And there's a reason they can't use an court, right? You can't convict somebody and say, you didn't cry enough on camera, you killed your kid, like, that doesn't hold up for a good reason. Well, the theory police have landed on is that Madeline died in the apartment. Maybe in an accident, and that her parents had hidden her body

and staged the abduction to cover it up. So where did that come from? Well, a few weeks earlier, back in late July, British police had flown into especially trained sniffer dogs. One was trained to react to the scent of human blood, and the other to the scent of a dead body. And inside the McCann's apartment, and later in a car they'd rented weeks after Madeline disappeared,

“the dogs alerted. On paper, they'd done sound damming. But here's the thing,”

dog alerts aren't feel proof. They can't tell you who sent it is or when it got there. So investigators take samples from the spots the dogs flagged and send them to a lab in the UK for DNA testing. The result that comes back seems to partially match Madeline, but the scientist who ran it is clear. The sample is two complex and the gravy to draw any real conclusion from it. It might not be Madeline's. The Portuguese police though don't take all of it, the dogs,

the partial DNA, and they run with it. And that's how Kate and Jerry, who've by now spent months begging the world to look for their daughter, suddenly become suspects. None of it holds up,

but you can only imagine how it makes the family feel. I don't know. I feel like it's always fair

to investigate those closest to the victim, especially when we're talking about a child, obviously the parents are usually the closest to the child. So I do think it's fair to investigate the parents, but I feel like there's a big difference between following the evidence, enforcing a theory that's not there. And it really seems like in this case, Portuguese authorities were really trying to force a theory that just was not there. When you're in a case like this,

and the parents are labeled as suspects, especially when there's like not enough physical proof to like tie them to their child's disappearance. Once that idea is in the public's mind, it's incredibly difficult to erase. So like even today, even though they've never been charged like there's no physical evidence really linking them to their daughter's disappearance.

“I mean, I think there's a lot of things happening here, right? You have to start with the”

inner circle. That's just like basic detective work, right? And we know that stats say that most children who are harmed are harmed by somebody they know. So all of that makes sense. I think what people

is put pressure on the authorities to solve it, right? Especially you have this adorable little

“girl who goes missing in your country. There's a lot of pressure to solve it, and sometimes they'll”

do whatever they need to make the public happy and bring that tourism back, or at least not scare

people away. I do think that's a factor in this case. I mean, the reality is the really sad and

tragic reality is that many kids, go missing, many kids are murdered. I'm routinely disturbed by inaction from the police in cases where children are harmed or killed. That's a very sad reality. And in this situation where you have this little girl that was getting all this media attention, that is a real situation where it putting pressure on authorities to do something. Well, of course, some of the kids don't stick around after this. On the advice of their legal

council, they leave Portugal two days later, on Sunday, September 9th, 2007, are little over four months after Madeline's disappearance, even though they haven't been cleared a suspects yet. Instead, they continue their own investigation from back in the UK using

“private detectives. In November, Jerry releases a video saying he believes his family was watched”

by a predator. The British police told him and Kate that their permanent location made them a

hot spot for criminals. It had ground floor access from the front and side road, and a secluded entrance with partial tree cover, which is something they weren't thinking about when they arrived the seemingly safe family oriented resort. On top of that, their nightly topist routine was predictable. Someone could have noticed a child in the apartment and figured out the best time to come in after watching them for a few nights. The McCanns aren't giving up. They want to find out

who that person was, but the Portuguese police aren't as helpful. On Monday, July 21st, 2008, 14 months after Madeline's disappearance, the Portuguese Attorney General's Office announced something. The case of Madeline's disappearance is closed until further evidence comes to light. Kate, Jerry, and Robert Moratt are no longer considered suspects, and the Portuguese

“casefiles are released. That's when Kate discovers something horrifying. In the Ocean Club staff”

message book, the receptionist wrote next to their standing dinner reservation. Maybe to explain why she bent the rules? She wrote the reason. They wanted to eat near their apartments, because they were leaving their young children alone and wanted to check on them periodically. But here's the issue. This book sat in the desk of the pool reception all day long. Every staff member was meant to see it, but it was likely visible to guests and visitors too.

After this, Kate can't help but wonder about every tiny detail of their stay, giving their whereabouts of the toddler club, Madeline's saying she cried the night before she

disappeared, and the tea on her ear shirt, which never amounts to much. But all of these details

get written down, because two years later, in November 2010, Kate and Jerry signed a publishing deal to author a book about their daughter's disappearance. Kate writes it, and it's published six months later in May 2011. It's called Madeline, our daughter's disappearance, and the continuing search for her. It's where we got most of our information on Madeline's final hours. The same month that's published, May 2011, the British Prime Minister David Cameron asked

the Metropolitan Police to open their own investigation into Madeline's disappearance. The map was already helping by collecting witness statements from British citizens, and by gathering and analyzing evidence, but only in support of the Portuguese authorities. Now, they launched their own investigation called Operation Grange dedicated entirely to Madeline. And over the next nine years, the map looks into many potential suspects. Then, in June 2020,

another country steps in. Germany announces they have a suspect. A man who doesn't look anything like the one Jane Tanner saw. His name is Christian Brookner, a 43-year-old German citizen who's been in and out of jail for violent sexual crimes since he was 17 years old. And from about 1995 to 2007, he lived in the Algarve region of Portugal. While he was there, he partnered with a German associate named Helga Bouching.

They stole solar panels and diesel and dealt drugs. In 2006, Helga broke into the farmhouse, Christian was renting near the ocean club resort to steal diesel for him. While he was there, he found incredibly disturbing home videos. They were of Christian violently raping two women. Later that year, Christian moved out. But in 2007, police believed then 30-year-old Christian was living and dealing drugs out of a camper van,

still near the resort. In fact, his phone records placed him in the area, an hour before Madeline went missing. In 2008, Christian was at a festival in Spain with Helga. They had a conversation about Madeline's disappearance. And Helga told Christian he didn't

Christian replied that she wasn't even screaming. Helga already knew that Christian

“burgled hotel rooms and vacation rentals. He thinks Christian was trying to rob the McCans”

when he came across Madeline. And he was the one who kidnapped her. Apparently in 2008, Helga left a voicemail for Scotlandyard about it, but it must have gotten lost with the flood of other messages they came in at the same time about Madeline's case. He tried again in 2017, 10 years after Madeline's disappearance. Now calling a dedicated hotline, this time the police interviewed Helga a few days later. At that point, Christian serving 15

months in prison for sexually assaulting a child, with additional charges for theft, drug trafficking and forgery. And in 2020, when Christian is announced as the primary suspect in Madeline's disappearance, he's serving a different sentence. Seven years for sexually assaulting a 72-year-old woman in 2005, in Cryo Delus. The same town Madeline managed from two years later. He denies his bar stool confession about Madeline. And he refuses to talk to the Metropolitan

Police. In September 2025, 48-year-old Christians released from prison after he finished his time. As of this recording, he's still being investigated in Madeline's case. The lead German prosecutor, Hans Christian Walters, tells the media they almost have enough evidence to charge him, but need to strengthen their position. We don't know exactly what evidence they have against Christian. As of this recording, he hasn't been charged in Madeline's case, and he continues to deny

involvement. And other theories still pop up from time to time. But whatever happened to Madeline, we hope her family will soon find out. Man, I feel like I first kind of consumed everything

“about this case. I think it really resonates, at least with me, is because nothing is scarier than”

a child disappearing in a matter of minutes on what was supposed to be a fun family vacation.

And my biggest question has always been, why Madeline? She shared a room with her two little

siblings. So why was she the only one taken? And how did nobody go? It's so scary, but I mean, it sounds like they don't know if it was this guy Christian. If it's just opportunistic moment, you know, and little kids sleep early hard, you know? So yeah, it's like it's certainly plausible. I can't imagine the pain and trauma that her twin siblings have grown up with. I mean, I feel like they're kind of always

in the shadows because Madeline is still missing and like there's it's just unresolved. I mean, they were sleeping in the same exact room as her. So I just can't imagine that has to be really heavy and indifficult to live with. Well, and they're so I'm sure they're really affected by how this is affected their parents and just dealing with all of that. And you know, it's just it would be such so hanging over their lives. Yeah, you really, you really hope they're, I hope they're doing

okay. All things considered. It's really traumatic. Yeah. I mean, there's a huge ripple effect in cases like this, right? Especially given how popular it's been in the media. I mean, I've

“followed this case for a long time. I think, you know, all of us are well aware of it as are,”

you know, most of the true crime community. And it feels like every few years you have some type of official coming out and saying, we've solved this case. Here's this new suspect. We definitely have solved it this time. And that roller coaster of emotions is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Let alone the siblings of a missing child. It's just awful. What we know for sure is in spring 2007, Madeline was on vacation in Portugal with her mom,

dad, and twin siblings, and three other families. They were staying at a resort that was supposed to be family friendly. It had spacious apartments, pools, beach access, playgrounds, clubs for kids of every different age, and tenants for the adults. Most days, Madeline and her siblings spent their time at the kids' clubs with activities between meals. And they went to bed at about 7 p.m. each night. At a 30 p.m. while Madeline and the twin slept, her parents ate at the

top as restaurant about 180 feet away from the apartment. They took turns checking on the kids

every half hour. At 9 p.m. on Thursday, May 3rd, 2007, Madeline's dad made the first check.

The door was slightly at a position, but he didn't think much of it. After all, the kids were sleeping tight. At 930 p.m., one of the McHan's friends made another check for them, but he only listened at the door to make sure they weren't awake. He didn't go inside to see if the kids were there. And at 10 p.m., when Madeline's mom went to check on her kids, she saw that her sweet, three-year-old daughter had vanished. The window was open. Her bed was empty, and the silence was

deafening. Madeline's parents have looked for her every day since. Madeline Beth McGan will be about 23 years old as of this recording. She is Caucasian with blonde hair in blue green eyes.

whole-shaped. If you have any information about Madeline McGan, you can email

“[email protected] or visit www.findmadeline.com. If you'd like to donate to Madeline's”

fund, you can visit www.findmadeline.com/support. And we want to thank Andrea Dunlop again for

being with us here today. We loved having your perspective on the case. And you guys can find

“Andrea Show, nobody should believe me, wherever you get podcasts. Thank you guys so much for”

having me on. It was really a pleasure. And I would love to have you guys on for a chat

on Nobby. She'll believe me sometime. Let's do it. I love it. I'm down. Yeah, I'm down.

Thank you for listening to the final hours. If you have any other details about Madeline McGan's case, please share it with us on social media. We want to hear from you. Your thoughts can dullens us in feedback or what make this community so special. At CrimeHouse, we value your support.

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