Scott Galloway: How to Hit Trump Where it Hurts (Unsubscribe)

Oh, that would take our subscribers way up. We need to get arrested. Hi everyone from New York Magazine in the Vox Media podcast network. This is on with Keroswisher and I'm Keroswisher. My guest today is Scott Galloway. You know who Scott is. He's the professor marketing NYU Stern School of Business. The founder of multiple firms, including L2, Red envelope and Profit and a bestselling author many times over and of course, my co-host on pivot and my long time work husband. Scott has recently started a movement which she began talking about on pivot called

Resist and Unsubscribed. The idea is to pressure CEOs who are either couchowing to Trump or working with ice by unsubscribing from their products and services. He's got a website called Resist and Unsubscribed.com. It's full of information on which companies to unsubscribe from for maximum impact. And it's really started to gain traction. The original plan was to get people to unsubscribe for the month of February, but as you'll hear he might be getting extended. I talked to Scott all the time, but I wanted to bring one of the podcasts because this Resist and Unsubscribed idea is really important.

And I initially heard it. I thought, oh, okay. It's an interesting idea. Now I actually think it's a great idea because working with a lot of people to impact companies has more impact than you think. And of course, it hits Trump where he hurts, which is in the wallet, his big fat corrupt wallet. And it's important to send a message to companies, a lot of tech companies that you don't like what they're doing, and you have choices. And it gives you a just a tiny bit more power.

“You should absolutely protest. You should absolutely right to your Congress, people. You should absolutely show up in hearings and you should absolutely vote.”

But this is another way to show your displeasure by denying them your business. It's really important. So stick around. Support for this show comes from Vanta. Vanta uses AI in automation to get you compliant fast, simplify your audit process and unblocked deals.

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Visit So5.com/boxpod to see how much you could save. That's So5.com/boxpod. So5 student loans are originated by So5 Bank and a member of FDIC, additional terms and conditions apply. And I'm a less 696891. Well, Scott Galaway. Thank you for coming on on. I just have one question and I on with Keroswisher right now, am I on with the inimitable Tecturnalist live forever piss off all the tech pros and the world is literally giving up billions of dollars in personal wealth because she has such an enormous pain in the ass.

“Yes, like that's why on with that, Keroswisher.”

I'm thrilled to be here to pick on her. Okay. Well, here's the thing. We have like beefs with the tech pros and beefs with tech companies and stuff like that.

But one thing you've started lately is this resistant unsubscribe and a lot of on listeners may not know about it's we want to get them to know about it. I want you to explain what resistant unsubscribe and how does it work and how do you come up with it. You started talking about it on Pivot really.

Well, I say this a lot. I've struggled my entire career with the difference between being right and being effective.

“And I think protests in a lot of podcasters and journalists talking about the injustice and the slow burn to fascism.”

That's all meaningful, but I think they're missing a profound weapon. And that is the greatest government action in history was six years ago. When on a dime, the government decided to inject trillions of dollars into the economy, new laws pass, new guidelines. And it wasn't because tens of thousands of people were dying. It was because GDP crashed 31%.

Right. So it was a reaction to when it happened during COVID, but it was a reaction to the economy.

Right. And then if you look at most recently, when does the president actually check back on plans to annex Greenland or on tariffs when the S&P or the bond market dive? And then if that was okay, if that's the goal, what's the string that you can pull on? What's the soft tissue? And it's the following. T-Mobile was supposed to sign up 992,000 new subscribers then announced 1962. And their stock was off $12 billion in the after hours. So if we can slow the rates of growth of subscriptions to big tech, you're going to see a massive hit to their market capitalization.

And then the individuals who will notice this, the CEOs, they are the ones that have the presidency or that it's constantly prostrating or using as his kind of two to it.

“I don't know, show ponies, you have two to us. And these 10 companies make up 40% of the S&P. So while I applaud and I think protest is really important journalism is really important.”

The courts, what I think we're missing in the objective is to educate people that the weapon hiding and playing site is just to decide, maybe I only need two streaming media platforms, not six.

Maybe I don't need the paid version of chat, GPT, I'll go with the free version. Or use one that has better values for example, which is that's not a new thing, the idea of boycotts, right? I remember, I mean, I go way back to Anita Bryant and orange juice and gay bars and things like that, which was super effective. Obviously, the Kimmel one, even though Disney says that wasn't the reason was effective in terms of everything. So you're trying to reach the CEOs who reach Trump, correct? I'm trying to reach the markets who will then reach the CEOs who will then reach Trump. Look, this is, let me go, I've been learning a lot about protests recently.

“Right, you've been studying them, right? Like what's effective and what's not?”

And their studies on it, so the most probably the most famous is the Montgomery bus strike. Sure. And what people remember was this incredibly courageous woman who refused to give up her seat. That was the cinematic part of it. And it wasn't until 11 months later that they decided to get rid of segregation on municipal bus lines. The economic protests that were, our sustained building and their economic fast forward to 25, Kimmel and Disney. The unsubscribe Disney were actually plummeting when they decided to put Kimmel back on the air, but traditional media began picking up the story and shaming them.

So it's a function of it needs to be a sustained build. It doesn't need to be economic and it's also about media highlighting it to the employees internally and the risk of economic damage. So why then for only one month? I mean, you were saying the Montgomery bus things a year and it took a while before it sinks in. Why a month versus February? That's a correct question. So I find the research I've done is a day and long economic strikes are an annoyance, but don't move the needle. I don't work today. Don't go in Friday. No work Friday. It's fun. It gets for outing online. It doesn't do anything.

You might be right. And what I might do is if the momentum keeps building, I might leave the side up past February because what I'm saying online now is every time I have this last night. I got very little momentum out of the gates. Very few people and you and handful of other people said this is important. But now that it's got some momentum and I've been on every channel, a cable news program in the world, all of a sudden people are finding their backbone and saying this is a good idea. If it keeps building momentum, I'll keep to side up and I'll start maybe adding companies, taking companies off and updating.

I'm trying to be really transparent around side analytics, what works, what doesn't. I mean, so far, I use AI to evaluate my progress so far. It's summary has been product management teams at Big Tech are talking about this, but it's not yet a conversation in the board room. You still have some wood to chop here.

Yeah, I have heard from CEOs. Yeah. They all say the same thing, Scott, really respect what you're doing here. I trust you understand as a former board member and shareholder how difficult it is to go first. But we just wanted to reach out and tell you that I agree with a lot of, you know, they're so nice and they're so charming. Right, and they agree with you, but they still are going to do business. Well, they say they're going to my boss agreeing with me on this phone call or via text message doesn't do anybody any good.

It makes me feel good, but you know, it's never, it's never the wrong time to do the right thing. And what I try to do is these are all men who are going to be dead soon.

I try to play to their sense of mortality and their emotions. I had this conversation with the head of a very large streaming network on Saturday morning. My boss, we're on the back nine. We're going to be dead soon. Time is going fast. When the kids are around you and you know that you're going to look into their eyes for the last time.

“Do you want to be the guy that got shareholder value up 10, 20% or the guy who took a stand that costs something like what what do you want at the end?”

Well, they also argue that they, they're there for shareholders. You see the prostrations that Tim Cook makes for Trump, for example.

Someone unlikely to do so and then behind the scenes to his employees says I'm all for immigration.

Right. Yeah, I want credit for being a leader without actually being a leader is how I would describe Tim Cook. And let me let me go there. This is the Applehead for people who don't mind the competition open markets. Especially for a guy like Tim Cook civil rights have played a really important role in that company's success and his personal success. And for him not to nod back to those things and be willing to take a stand, I find gross. And what I do empathize with is none of them, it's very difficult for any of them to make the first move because a good autocrat rewards his allies with insider trading information and sweetheart deals and avoidance of Chinese tariffs or whatever you want.

“And punishes severely the person who moves first. So actually a really key player in this I believe in why I had them on my podcast yesterday is a guy like Jeffrey Son and Feld.”

That's what I was going to ask about Jeffrey because Jeffrey does list he did it around Russia and Ukraine. So for those of you don't know, Jeffrey is a professor of leadership at Yale. And he literally gets the CEO of AT&T and then dropping in the same room. He gets all of them. They said, Jeff, what needs to happen here is that 10 50 100 of the Fortune 500 need to collectively say something such that the president can't punish any one of them. He'd have to go after all of them. But just to circle back, let me go to the micro here, Chelsea Hamler called me and said, are you taking your money out of Goldman and putting it in a Canadian bank account and going from dollars to Canadian dollars?

And she asked really thoughtful questions and I said, I struggle with this, but I think I'm going to go to a US regional bank and keep my money in dollars because I don't want to hurt America. I want to send a message to Americans about the weapons they have. And I want big tech to feel this pain that there's some economic downside, not just upside to supporting ice.

“So I'll get to that issue in a minute, but the idea is that tech companies stock price drops and CEOs and talk to Trump, but how do you decide you broken down corporations on the unsubscribed list of two categories?”

Ground zero and blast zone. Talk about the distinctions. So ground zero is companies that if you can take their subscription growth from, you know, 8% month on month to 7.5%

Sam Alman isn't going to get his round on a $850 billion dollars. It's the tail of the whip. It's the, you know, it's the ignition that's small spark that ignites, you know, a nuclear detonation.

Those companies are so sensitive to subscription growth and they have such massive market capitalizations. Then when Microsoft's cloud growth is 37% versus 38, it loses 10% of its value and then the entire NASDAQ 100 declines one and a half percent and one day. So ground zero is where there might be a small spark. My creative massive detonation. The blast zone is companies like AT&T that are openly working with ice quite frankly. It's an important philosophical signal to say, I don't want to work with them, but quite frankly, AT&T is somewhat meaningless in terms of market capital. Let me give you an example.

If you were to say to people, no economic activity, stop buying groceries, just plant a garden and don't shop. Crovers is a public company. I don't think the CEO, frankly, has a presidency, but he is the CEO of a very big company. Crovers trades at 0.3 times revenues. If you cancel your open AI, chat GPT paid subscription and just use the free one, which as far as I can tell it's pretty much the same and I'm all over AI right now. They lose $240 in a company that's being valued at 40 times revenues or $10,000.

Right, so you're making it easy for people to do that and these are things that they can do and send a message at the same time. Were there ones that you considered and then left off?

Something that they some deal they did with the defense department or wherever companies can't stay totally clean in that regard, which I think is a problem with some of it is there's no problem. Maybe Patagonia, I guess, like there's very few like that. Yeah, I don't have total moral clarity around this. I'm still I'm not giving up my iPhone. Right, that's what I mean. Someone correctly asked me my one of my co-hosts for another podcast I do said, are you selling your Apple stock? I'm going out fuck. And I've started selling down my Apple stock.

“I'm not sure I'll give you another one. I'm not sure if Netflix should be on the list because I think of them as being politically neutral.”

Doing their best just to be good actors. I really like the CEOs there, but I'm like, okay, it's a 300 billion dollar market cap company.

The CEO decides to get on a plane and go meet with the president had in hand because the elicins are there as well. And there's all sorts of wrong about the president getting involved in a socialist Cronius movement. But I want to. I struggle with who's on the list and who isn't. I struggle with how far I should go. I struggle with one thing I'm trying not to do. I don't want to be the arbiter of what people should subscribe or subscribe to. Do you want to give them information? Okay. This is what they do.

“If you're rattled as I was by the Secretary of Homeland Security calling an ICU nurse serving veterans in domestic terrorists and you want to do something. What I'm saying is,”

you're going to be shocked. If you go to resist an unsub.com how much money you are spending on these platforms that you didn't even know. And the examples I used to the following, when I unsubscribed from Amazon Prime, I found out that I was still a member of Amazon One, their health care service that I signed up for in 2020 to get a prescription of packs. When I unsubscribed from AT&T to go to Noble Mobile, I found out I didn't have one. I had four AT&T accounts and three of them were for iPads and blackberries that have been in a landfill for a decade.

I found that out recently. And they kept charging me 60 or 70 bucks and they know damn well, there's never been a ping from that, but they continue to auto renew. I have no joke.

I spent four to six thousand dollars on automatically renewing subscription. I found out that in this is a story of privilege. I'm taking 370 Uber's a year. And because Uber is consolidated the market, they have increased the price of 7 to 10% a year. The price of Uber's or Uber Lux, which is what I take has doubled in the last six years. So similar to dried January, where you might decide to come out of it and recalibrate your alcohol intake up or down, mostly down. Yeah. This is an easy way to one save some money and send an out.

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Visit SoFi.com/boxpod to see how much you could save. That's SoFi.com/boxpod. SoFi student loans are originated by SoFi Bank and a member FDIC, additional terms and conditions apply. And I'm a less 696891. So talk about how it's affected you personally. You are over one. Netflix, correct? Amazon Prime. And are your kids bugging you to restart the an Xbox subscription? Because I've got to have a discussion with Louie tonight about Apple Music. I don't want to get off. I've gotten off almost all the Apple things, almost except for my storage, which I have to figure something out.

Apple Music was easy. Not for my kids. So let me be clear, in terms of the family, they're all down in my movement. They kind of rolled their eyes with fine dads out again.

“And more of his like attention mongering, except over. That's the kind of, that's what I, that's what their body language says to me.”

And they're like, fine, we'll go along with it. But when I told them we were going from 6 to 0 streaming media platforms, I'm not exaggerating.

They looked at each other like, all right, smother dad and sleep tonight.

And so we've gone down to 2 and we're about to go down to 1. But I'm not asking people something, I'm not willing to move to Ted Kaczynski's old shed in the forest and have a ham radio. I'm keeping my iPhone. I'm going to have one streaming media platform. Which one? I hate to say it, but it's the big one, you know?

That's like, well, there you go. So we all voted on it as a family. And everyone had, I would have kept HBO Max just because I like watching hot menu play hockey. But that's just because you can go back to things, right? That's your whole point. My, my point is this is your call. Yeah.

I'm an economically secure guy living in London. I'm not the arbiter. What I'm trying to give you is information on you. You have zombies outside that are really upsetting you. Well, guess what? I got a fucking cannon.

The you is in your house that you didn't even know you had. And I'll go back where I was headed with Chelsea handler, Chelsea went on. Insted and set these are the following companies I'm not subscribing from. She listed about a thousand bucks a year in savings. Yeah.

Most of these companies, especially the big tech companies, traded an average at 10 times a revenue. So Chelsea on subscribing cost them $10,000. But I went on AI on both platforms.

And I said, okay, she'll probably have a quarter of a million to half a million likes.

The number of views is in the millions.

“And I went on my side analytics. I think Chelsea's one social media post about her unsubscribing”

is going to get between five and seven thousand new unique visits to the resist and unsub site today. The AI said you're getting about a four to five percent conversion to people who actually unsub. So it's like conversion is how many people come to the site and either buy your products or actually unsubscribed from a platform. And the average number of platforms people are unsubscribing from is two to three. So anyways, five percent of seven thousand is 350 times two is 700 times an average annual subscription.

That's 140,000 dollars times 10. That's 1.4 million dollars. To it heads up. My point is if you woke up and said, I am pissed off and I want to do something. A personally, you can probably take a $10,000 buy out of the market cap of these companies.

And two, if you have anything resembling a platform, you can take millions of dollars. And wars are fought one battle at a time. They're fought one soldier at a time. We like the idea of a cinematic detonation where overnight it's not fixed. It's you know, death by a thousand cuts.

Well, okay, if you have 10,000 cuts, you have an impact. I'm speaking to the entire senior class at a high school in Michigan, who want me to argue why they should all collectively unsubscribed from Spotify. And I can say to them, I'll work them to the math and say if the entire senior class at this school, you're Michigan unsubscribed from Spotify.

It's going to cost them about $700,000 in market cap. And I just want you aware of the math and then you make your own decisions. Right.

“Because I think most people feel useless, right? They feel like there's less small.”

I think you're you're moving into that.

A lot of people are going to Spotify because it's easy to unsubscribed from because there's so many substitutes around music.

And I want to be clear, I'm not sure why Spotify is non-alist. I'm having a difficult time being the arbiter of who should be on the list and who shouldn't. Well, it's your list and then people can make a decision or you could have an area where people could suggest. By last week, more than half a million had visited resistant unsubscribed.com, and the campaign is generated over 80 million views across social platforms.

“So how do you continue to build and sustain that energy?”

It's a first step towards mobilizing a massive people toward prolonged economic strike or street protests. How do you look at that? Because you're talking about taking, you want to take a quarter million out of the market cap of these people. Quarter billion. Quarter billion. Excuse me. And that's a lot. Talk about how you sustain that energy. One of the things is media talking to me talking to Emma's now or whoever, you know, going on Fox News, et cetera, et cetera.

Well, so the answer is I don't know.

And so right now we're tracking to hit these companies with emotional decrease in their market cap of a quarter of a million dollars, which across all of them isn't a lot. This is what I've done. I started personally with a bunch of social videos and I put the side up. Okay, you know, kind of a tree falling in the forest. My then went on traditional media.

I was everywhere. All of a sudden I got some momentum. Monday and Tuesday, the side visits started to decline. We lost some energy. And then yesterday, some fairly, I'm going to call a famous, but people who have big footprints went on to their social and started talking about it. And it feels like the momentum is increasing again.

I can't be on CNN or Fox every day or NPR was on with Christian. I'm going to tour last night. I'm going on a bunch of pods today. That is only sustainable for so long. I think, and I'll be curious to get your thoughts.

“I think the only way this sustains Kara is if enough people decide to do it themselves and then communicate their actions on social.”

Or create their own versions of resistance and subscribe, right? I'm one of the things I told you, you're doing it by yourself. You know, of course, you got I had a lot of sort of the activist communities like what? I do it in a group and I'm like as he hates long phone calls with lots of people. I don't know what else to say. You moved on your own, right?

But you need others to join at some point, correct? Well, I'm violating one of my dictums and that is greatness is in the agency of others. You know, you only win great wars with allies. I have a personal failing here and that is at my age. I don't want to get on the phone with a bunch of people and Birkenstocks arguing over which company should be on a list or not.

I just don't have that fucking patience. Yeah, so this is I did here. I went on the resistance calm podcast. I spoke to the good people yesterday at Indivisible and to be blank here. I'm finding that I have as much insight into this as they do at this point. Right. And that's not to say I don't want to partner with them.

“I spoke to a kid today who said, I think I can get a thousand young creators to talk about what they're on subscribing from.”

Probably more effective, right? I am coming to the grips of the fact that is, you know, as infinitely likable and sweet as I come across, I'm going to have to find other allies in this fight, which makes my skin crawl. But anyways, you asked me how those sustains. I need to do a better job of finding coordinated organized allies and two more than anything.

I've planted the seeds here. We definitely going to take it looks like now a quarter of a billion dollars out of their market cap.

I want to educate Americans as to the power of their economic strength. Right. But if this is going to sustain, it's got to go for lack of a better term. It's got to get some morality on social. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I mean, it's theory behind.

It's like the ice bucket challenge, right? Everybody suddenly has to do it with the theory behind resistance. You want the most impact with the least amount of sacrifice. One of the issues is people don't recognize their wallet has just as much as making a sign has different kind of impact. But has an impact, right? Correct. Is that this is something that's easy to do and you're not trying to make it easy for people to protest.

But it's, it's a thing that is more powerful with less effort, right? And actually it's good for your budget, too, by the way. I'm trying to figure out the way you can have the biggest impact with the least amount of effort. To give up your Saturday and go protest and make signs, that's a real effort. And more power to those people and they're incredibly inspiring.

If you decide not to go into work because you're pissed off, that's a real risk. If you decide to go into our groceries, that's a huge risk. Canceling chat, GPT, and going to the free one. Relative to the impact you're having on open AI right now in the signal you're sending. I think it's an enormous ROI relative to the consumer friction there.

Do you have an ending or just do you want to start a, you know, a fire, essentially? Well, my endgame is that we don't have a mass-secret police terrorizing Americans. You know, my, my endgame is we stop and we find it untenable. Or that the different quote unquote, co-equal branches of government that effectively become the Duma,

and send them to what is the definition of a concentration camp.

And that is a black side outside of the overview of the laws and regulations of a, of a nation.

“I find what's going on here. You know, what's my endgame?”

My endgame long term is to have the president check back, as he has with other market movements, on some of what I think are really, really frightening policies. But in the short run, my objective is very simple. I want tens of millions of Americans to think, what can I do? I can protest. I can vote. I can turn on my ring light and be outraged.

I can go on and call Pam Bondy, you know, Jan Brady, if she was possessed by Satan, whatever. Or, or I can, I just made that up, I'm proud of that. You know, that was actually a plot point on one of the Brady movies. Or, or if I want to take just $10,000 out of the market cap of open AI in about 20 seconds, I can cancel my paid subscription and use the free one.

One of the things you did was go on people with people who are just angry, right wingers, which I don't advise you to do, but one of the things I didn't know that was going to happen. Oh, really? Because that would be their move. You're killing the economy. You're talking about personal, personal, and typically brings me on. And I have a sane, thoughtful debate with like that guy to Kevin O'Leary.

And by the way, it was very civil. And I thought his audience benefited from it. He invited me on. And quite frankly, he ambushed me with one of these young,

mega people I had never heard of before.

I don't think I handled it especially well. But I do both of us look worse for it.

“And I think it's an active object to Professor.”

Well, having a mass secret police shooting mothers in the face or denying a person's face, you're referring to a person that's not been erupting me. I'm just trying to collect you Prattle. I let you Prattle on with your trade. Let me just try to understand what you were saying.

And I'm a person for the whole sector, and secretly denying a person. Yeah, well, the idea was you're hurting the economy's god-gallow way. Like that's they're going to be their move. No, he called it desperate, unpatriotic. And you, you liberals can't get over the Trump one fairly soon.

Trying to crash the economy.

Right. And I hope Pierce got another 11 or $12 in the ad sense for being such a fucking

rage-baiting whore. Hi Pierce. But his audience does not benefit from people just interrupting each other. And getting into a food fight, which, by the way, the algorithms absolutely love. I'll give you that.

But, and by the way, the left does it, too. Turn it into Abby Phillips for her new show called "I Feel Stupider." What they bring on a right-wing guy who says something so vile, so false, and then they have a much a sea-league academics with, you know, blue hair, go fucking crazy. And it's their most popular show.

“But what you have to answer it in and are like, is there any wrong with taking the economy?”

Like, that's their whole thing. Like, I get their stupid argument about patriotist stupid. They're just pulling all your buttons, kind of pushing the buttons of idiots. I'm not going to tank the economy. This is what we want.

Sam Altman, Tim Cook, Sergey Larry, such a, you know, sooner I'll go, you know what? This whole-- I'm sick of this. This whole ignoring ice is starting to cost us money. It was making us money.

We were left out of this tariff nonsense. We might get government-backed financing for our chips and infrastructure. We get all sorts of goodies. We might, in fact, get huge government contracts. It's good for shareholder value.

They have to be-- That's right. We have to go see the Melania movie. It had some point when they start calling a child and go, you know, people are pissed off. Have you seen all these unsubscribed movements?

That's when they're going to find their testicles. That's really going to-- they're going to say, you know, collectively, we need to put out a statement saying, what's going on here is directly contrary to the great American values that build companies like Amazon Apple, Meta Google. I doubt Zuckerberg will do it because I'm convinced he is the dark lord.

I do think that unless there's going to be an exorcism soon, and that's not going to happen. Yeah, no. But be clear, these guys, if there's enough organic movements where their shares are going to go down, not up because of their support of ice.

Right. They were all of the stuff. It sticks with the sticking with their consumers versus anything else. Let me ask you a bigger picture in that regard. There'd be no need for anyone to unsubscribe with the business community wasn't enabling all this in such a really ridiculous way.

I can't count how many times one of us are guests on the podcast that said some version of what's the point of having this money. If you're not going to take a stand where the counts on Tina Brown just said, it turns out having you money means you just want more fuck you money and you don't want to do anything with it. What's the point? So when you watch these business leaders then the need.

How do you feel about that? Many people are surprised.

I don't get it.

“I literally, just as I saw, I just had no concept of the depths of the depravity as revealed in the obscene files.”

I knew it was bad.

I didn't know it was this bad.

It's worse because you're not seeing the unredacted before. I didn't know that the DOJ had been contacted by survivors and what had no interest in even speaking to them. I mean, it's like, okay. Well, let me get this and then you release their names but you redact the co-conspirators. A legit co-conspirator.

So that was shocking to me. Going to your question and I'll do some virtually certainly for both of us. We both make really good money. We're both going to be able to send our kids to the best schools. We're both going to have really thoughtful, good-looking people taking care of us.

I'm willing to surround when we're older.

“So I'd like to think it creates, I think wealth can do this.”

Ideal in a capitalist society. It gives you fewer excuses to not be a good person. It gives you more opportunities to be a good person. That's the whole point of money. That's the whole point of wealth is it.

And I look at everything now through the lens of masculinity. You want to provide. You want to develop skills and strengths. Such that you can protect others. Mm-hmm.

And what could afford less protection right now?

If we don't have the most powerful men in America deciding that I need to protect

when a mother of two is shot in the face three times. When an ice universe who is taking care of veterans is shot ten times. And about 15 seconds is first, second, fourth, and tenth amendment rights are violated. Those are the very principles that gave us the Gulf Streams. Give us civil liberties.

Give us unbelievable companies. Give us access to power. And it would be short-sighted and just a total lack of gratitude and recognition of the people who, whether at Normandy Beach or people who are protesting the civil rights. All of these people paid such huge sacrifices to give me my fucking Gulf Stream.

And the fact that I can live with another man or the fact that I could, I could immigrate here from India without being worried about my family being rounded up. It's what's at the point of having it. That is exactly right. It's fucking gross.

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[music] [music] >> Let me read a quote for you, "Audrey Lord, the writer, activist and feminist famously said the

master's tool will never dismantle the master's house." On the other hand, we've heard the saying

that's attributed to Lenin, probably incorrectly, the capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will

“hang them. Who's right there? We're trying to use technology to organize this movement, and I think that's”

fine, personally. Why not use their rope to hang them? >> I'm using Instagram. In people have called me off for it and I said, "Look, I'm a home in Florida." And the electricity we get is from a coal-fire plan. I'm hugely against coal, but I still turn on my lights. I want to be clear that one of the downsides of a concentration of power is that they extort or exact greater rents. And one of the greater rents they exact is that you don't have much choice. I understand what people say. I can't give up

search right now. I get it. I personally am quite optimistic that if you look back, we like to think that we're as humans. We think we're subject to something totally unique when the reality is. You don't have to go very far back in history to find times that we're the same or worse. If you look at America, the notion that this is this dark time we'll never recover from

incarcerating Japanese families, solely because of their identity. Many of whom had kids fighting

for us in the European theater. You signed it, you signed it. So the notion somehow that we haven't been in very dark places, but what has typically happened is we get it right over the medium and long term almost better than anybody else. We make a lot of big mistakes in the short term, but our democracy has rebounded and shown real tensile strength and has come back. I would argue even stronger. And that's what I'm hoping this is. I see a lot of movement. I see a lot of it. Look at the

popularity. The president, it is plummeting right now. plummeting, plummeting. So I'm hopeful. Yeah, so you already brought this up. But let me get some final care now. I've asked you this on pivot. If you had dig vested from in these companies, you said, I think I'm going to have to am not to walk the wall here. It's a big step. It's like another step, right? As you said, nobody can extricate themselves perfectly from the capitalist system to be completely pure. So

“people shouldn't, I don't think they should dwell on that. I think you should do your best. That's”

my feeling. But, you know, there are those who think, you have to extricate yourself completely. Yeah, look, like I said, I'm not giving it my iPhone. But as someone who is asking other people to do this, as someone who is, you know, with the catalyst for this little movement, I have an obligation to lead by example and be a little bit more out front than other people. So I am selling down my Apple stock. I'm going Goldman Sachs manages my money. I really like David Solomon. I really like Jamie Diamond.

I'm disappointed that those types of leaders who do have the presidency here have not been more vocal. So I'm going to transfer my money out of Goldman and my assets to a regional bank. You know, everybody has to make up their own mind about how aggressive they want to be. All I'm trying to do is one raise awareness of the power of this and to make it easy for them to unsubscribe from some of the more obvious players. Yeah. So what if what are the snowballs and turns out

you're the hero? We didn't know we needed. Are you prepared to come on the face of the anti-Trump economic resistance? Yeah, I think you're being generous. I don't know if I am being generous. I just think. I think the last, I don't know if I think Amazon has recognized or profiled me and when I go to their site is serving is recommending erectile dysfunction socks. So I don't know if it sees me as the leader we need right now. So last question, what do you tell people who feel

hopeless or overwhelmed? Because that's one of the things. And when people ask me and I'm like, it's just something like you know, it just don't overthink it, right? People who want to take part but only unsubscribe from a few services who don't know where to begin. What's your message? Give your final inspirational speech. Well, this isn't inspirational. I coach a lot of young men. I had a young man call me a few weeks ago and say, I had sex and I have symptoms of something

and he was freaking out and really upset. And I said, okay. This wasn't one of my kids, right? Now, I'm sorry, that was last year, I was 24. And I said, like, the last and I wish I had learned

“earlier in life is that action absorbs anxiety. I want you right now to go online. I want you to”

set up an appointment and you're going to go ahead and find out if and what is going on with you. And we did it online together and the next day called me, good news, you know, but he immediately felt better. Action absorbs anxiety. And if you're as upset as I am about what is going on and for the

first time in my life, I have had trouble dissociating from what's going on. It is created anxiety

and anger and it takes me away from my family. It takes me away from my health. It takes me away from my mental wellness. Then what I would tell you is it feels really good to do something. Paint a sign and go to a protest, call your Congress person, speak to friends, start thinking about organizing and getting people registered to vote, give a little bit of money to a candidate who you think is showing courage around this. It feels really good to do things with other people and

makes you feel American. It makes you feel strong. And like I said, how do you want to be remembered? As the person barking at the moon and angry or the person who actually fucking digs something and the other thing that I'm trying to do personally is the reason I have had such a wonderful life. I have the economic security. I have the friends I have that I get to hang out with someone much higher

character much hotter than me is I have never been afraid of public failure. The difference between

“you and action and greatness and relevance is your fear of public failure. That's why people don't”

start businesses. That's why people can reach out and express romantic interest to people, hotter than them. That's why people don't write op-eds that are potentially dangerous and professionally. And what I can tell you is the risk of public failure is a curb that's two inches

if you want to tell your group that you are unsubscribing and this is why, say I threw this party and no one showed up and it was laughable and there is that angry professor and what a stupid movement it didn't work. You know what? They're going to be dead soon and so am I. The difference between you and greatness and relevance is overcoming your fear of public failure. Yep, that's it.

“That's all you have to do. Scott the hero we didn't know we need. Yeah, right. Scott Galloway.”

Correct out dysfunction sucks. I let me just say. They're not helping. A lot of people, a lot of people

shit posts you. I know this first man. You are a very loyal friend. Who was first on this

bandwagonia? Tara Swisher, all my good friends now now that I've had a little bit of successful men. I'm not all of a sudden now to like, I'm with you brother. Yeah, where the fuck were you 10 days ago? When no one was RSVP into my part. Yeah, I like all your schemes, Scott. Any scheme you want to do. I'm there for it. I'm there for all your things. It's a good scheme. I appreciate it. I first I was like, huh, only because you were insulting protesters and I'm like,

don't insult that, too. It's like a two. It's like, you know, like when you do whatever. It's

“out of it. It's a thing. You can do. And I think people feel good about it. And actually,”

it is effective. It is. I have, myself, I unsubscribed at least several thousand dollars.

It's really something a year. It's really crazy. And again, it was like that I didn't have as many streaming services as you. But, and it's good to have discussions. One of the things I will say, like you talked to your kids with my kids about it. Like, you know, what are you willing to give up? And let me just say the last thing. And I think Scott agrees with this. It doesn't have to be forever. It's for now, right? Go back. Subscribe. It's really easy to sign up. They make it really easy to

sign back up. You'll even get a better deal. If you cancel for me, it's indeed. They'll try and

“tempt you better to do it better. If they do something good, reward them by signing up again.”

Say, I really appreciated that and do it on the other side. So Scott, thank you so much. Again, resistant and unsubscribed. What's the site? Say, the site's name is okay. www.resist and unsub or resistant unsubscribed or unsubscribed February. Up to you. Up to you. Scott, gallery, you're the best. Thank you so much. You know, you are. No, you are. You are. You are. You are. Today's show was produced by Christian Castro Vessel, Michelle O'Light,

Megan Bernie and Kaylin Lynch. Scott Kerviz, Vox Media's executive producer, podcast. Special thanks to Madeline LePlanck, Dooby. Our engineers are Fernando Aruda and Rick Juan and our theme music is by Tracodemix. If you're already following the show, resist and unsubscribed is going to grow exponentially. If not, it will anyway get on board. Use your wallet to make a statement. Go wherever you listen, a podcast search for on with Keras Wisher and hit follow.

Thanks for listening to on with Keras Wisher from Podium Media and New York Magazine, the Vox Media podcast network and us will be back on Thursday with more. Support for the show comes from SoFi. Let's face it. College is expensive and how you pay for it really matters. That's where SoFi comes in. SoFi helps you refinance at rates as low as 4.24% APR, potentially saving big by lowering your monthly payment. You can even customize

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