Trump Bullies Allies, Powell Stays Put, and Kalshi Faces Criminal Charges

Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is CoreWave. Medical Research and Diagnosis, Education, Complex Visual Effects for Movies. Science and Technology Breakthroughs. CoreWave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose-built tech,

building what's never been built before.

“CoreWave is the essential cloud for AI, ready for anything, ready for AI.”

To learn more about how CoreWave powers the world's best AI go to CoreWave.com/ReadyForAnything. Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business takes everything you've got and a lot of the tools out there that are supposed to make your life easier just aren't great at talking to each other. And that means you end up having to toggle between a dozen different apps and services

just to keep the lights on. Enough of that. Now there's Odoo. The all-in-one fully integrated platform that actually might help you get it all done. Thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you.

Try Odoo for free at Odoo.com that's Odoo.com. Support for the show comes from Back Market. Everyone listening to this pod has heard or seen an ad telling you how much you need their latest tech. Let me let you in on a little secret.

You don't need that upgrade.

Come on, he's often tell you that you need this version just to find out it basically does

what the previous version you can do.

“That's why Back Market, the world's leader in premium refurbished tech, is giving you”

another option. Back Market offers a range of high-quality tech, inspect, and refurbished by professionals. It's all they do. They have phones, computers, gaming consoles, vacuum cleaners, and even iPods. Plus, their company would have purpose as refurbished tech has proven to have a significantly

lower environmental impact and new stuff. Shop now at Back Market.com. And I got to hang out with Larry David. It's like angry me depressed, depressed me to angry. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Calaway. Scott, if you recovered from South by Southwest, I'm still asking in the glow. I thought it was correct. It was good.

Yeah, I had a good time. In the end, it was really fun. Which was your favorite highlight of it? My favorite highlight. Sites our time together.

The way representative Talorica described masculinity, and he talks about his father or I guess, so used to come home on Sunday and immediately change. And then mow their lawn and then, with that, I were talking about just when the store and mode the lawn of the soled ladies, and he did throw that out. Yeah, that was struck.

You mentioned it at the show. Why did you ever mow people's lawns? I used to mow lawns for money, but I didn't do it. I showed up to the house before I mowed a lawn and said, hey, seven bucks in Ohio and I mowed your lawn.

Oh, wow. I got an annual lawn mower, and I was all of about 120 pounds pushing him back along more around. So, you were not taught to mow people's lawns? No, I was taught to make money.

I was my dad was like, go make money. Go make money. Interesting. I think jobs are huge for tans. Yep.

Yep. My son got a job at a taco truck last summer, and it was so good for him.

“And so many, anyways, I think chores, chores, jobs, and sports, I mean, anyways, and that.”

Anyway, it's what the reason I'm asking is because it's introspection, I mean, you're introspection. Oh, I've gotten much more introspection, just to damn here and to loom, I've had some time to really contemplate, and I'm decided that, right, it's time for me at this age, care.

It's time for life is fine. It's time for me to start. To start living my dream, so I'm going to start showing up for tests. I'm not prepared for naked.

Well, as always, so you're in the market in Dresden School.

Have you heard about this situation? Well, let me just say what it is, market in Dresden, who I really don't like anymore. I didn't like that much then, but he's really become such a troll. He said on the fact he was part of the Netscape browser thing, I wouldn't say he was the only person.

He did take a lot of credit. It's important entrepreneurs, Silicon Valley, and et cetera, now he's a venture capitalist. On the founder's podcast with David Senra, he said, "My goal is zero introspection is little as possible for a few years ago. It would never occur to any of you to be introspective, like the whole idea.

I mean, just to all the modern concepts around introspection and therapy and all the things that kind of result from that are kind of manufactured in 1910s, 1920s. This is very much in line with him being an expert on everything. He used to lecture me about things he knew nothing about a lot. All it says to me is this man is in desperate need of therapy.

He's just trying to be like, "I don't think about anything." I find it a very dystopian, and I find him dystopian in general, but this idea that introspection is a weakness, again, is not masculine, it's not feminine, it's not human, I think, in some

I think it's important, occasionally, you know, do some sort of pondering I ask yourself,

“if you go and bring one thing to a desert island, what would you bring?”

And I decided the answer was I wouldn't go. No. I need atables streaming media and my playing carer. No, like, in all seriousness, it's as if these guys all men and injuries and hired a publicist, the Brides comes first in the world and said, "How do we convince humanity?

We're bad for humanity."

And this notion that technology requires less energy to get to a point of critical thinking

than a human is just so nihilist and so weird. And then introspection is how we move forward as a species. I was like, "Socratize Plato, Marcus Aurelius," like, it's been around, he's like, "Oh, it's just the 1910s, he's so ignorant, like the idea introspection is a critical element of all philosophy going back, also, by the way, Jesus tested the Bible.

It's all about thinking about. Reflecting on how you become a better introspection is why we have the Marshall Plan and why people reconnect with their family members. Introspection is how you try to become a better person and realize the errors of your actions and your actions have ramifications and what can you do to be leave the world a better place.

And it's indicative, again, in this far right performative, I don't even call it masculinity but macho, that I don't care, I just plow ahead because I'm such a baller. It's just, it's just like, okay. It's crazy. I don't, like, my grandmother didn't introspect a logic, grew up in the depression, right?

She didn't wonder if she was happy.

“I think she was probably could have been happier, right?”

That kind of thing. And there's an element that, but this idea that this idea of thoughtfulness has not been around since the dawn of fucking time drives me crazy.

The second thing is, look, this guy has a very famously, doesn't speak to his family, right?

Like, there's all manner of fucked upness that is very, very deep in this particular person who has influence on other, who has massive influence on everybody else. And, you know, he's like, he's an emotional, I don't want to use, you know, he's just a tiny little man from a soul point of view, like extraordinarily small. And I find it really just bragging about it is the last, you know, he's the one that's

that we should fight more, like we should physically fight, like, as if he could get in a fight with anybody, he'd lose in a second, but it's just they're trying to be villains or something, by the way, the main villain in the Marvel movies is quite introspective FYI. Well, I would argue that probably, I mean, people would say the greatest mine in the 20th centuries.

Einstein, but they should take a play, take a page in the playbook of the greatest, arguably greatest technologist of the 20th century, and that was something that only had a vision for technology, but could bring together people to, well, was that that moment developed

and deployed the most important technology in history, at least the most profound, and

that was up and high, and he was hugely interested. So it was Einstein, if you read them, and then I usually interest back to them. They were really worried about the ramifications of their actions and how they could spend the rest of their lives trying to, you know, they didn't just say the introspection isn't some AI guy who vests his shares, and then scares the shit out of the world as he piece

is out to the coat to zoo it. That is not introspection, Bill Gates, for all the ship Bill Gates is getting a lot of it. He is a, he decided, I have become the wealthiest person in the world at that moment. I am smart.

“What did I do with my resources to impact millions of people and he started distributing?”

He decided, I think I can stop malaria and a continent. That is introspection. Yeah, anyway, it's, it's, it's led to a lot of me, very funny memes, you know, Marcus and Dronicus, and then nothing. It's called nothing.

What is soulless, empty person, and this is not where we should be getting clues as we go for it. That's just my feeling. And I think one of the more damaging figures from, in terms of training young men at Silicon Valley is this guy.

He's not someone to follow. Let me just say I've known him since he was very young and he's progressed negatively and backwardly in a way that's really quite depressing. Oddly enough, in, in relation and then we'll finish up on this, I had lunch at South West with Mark Cuban, what a person who was developed in a really, he was telling me all

of that is cost-plushed the passion around it. I just was, he also looks great, by the way. He looks great. Yeah, he's eating clams. That's another story.

But he did. He's bored you at that story. I had to suffer through that. Did he buys on Amazon? Yeah, let's not get into it.

Well, we'll have him on to talk about it at some point. He's trying to get protein, but it was funny.

both claiming that they're playing a lot of pedell and a lot of them.

“I'm like, "Your old you could eat you right now, pedell my ass."”

For Dell, anyway, I just was like, I had a wonderful talk about prescription drugs about live, about his kids, like what, it was such a difference, like he's the opposite of a good man trying to embarrass you. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, we have to move on.

Mark honestly stopped all of you. Now it's carbs in a number of things, stupid things, like stop talking, all of you stop talking, because what you say is nonsensical and actually makes you look so stupid and pathetic that it's, I'm just here to help you on that issue. Anyway.

The, like, even if you're religion, you're supposed to reflect on some of it as some of crypto. If Jesus could feed the world of two fishes in a love, you know, if you really think about it. I mean, I mean, peace out.

Peace out. All right, let's move on. I can't do it better than that. Okay. Okay.

As this recording, oil prices, in a more real situation, prices of oil over $990 a barrel at one point falling attacks on energy sites in the Gulf. Prison Trump has been lashing out at US allies this week demanding they send warships to help secure the straight before moves. The response has been, quote, global raspberry as one analyst put it, we're seeing also

the first resignation of this war, counterterrorism, official joke ant, step down, saying Iran posed no moment threat. Of course he went on Tucker Carlson, and he's, he's of that ill, he has some, he has some problems to himself, but nonetheless, he quickly went on Tucker Carlson discusses to partially because this is like the train, the right ring, maga train, if you're going

in one direction.

Meanwhile, the Pentagon is asking the White House to prove $200 billion request for Congress

to fund the Iran War.

“I think of an entire, I think Joe Biden was 180 billion for like years, long wars, whatever.”

Defense Secretary Pete Hex has just said in a briefing, then a number could move because it takes money to kill bad guys, a speaking of introspection, what an idiot. The next move, what happens here, Trump also said this week, by the way, that a former president told him he regretted not bombing them, but all the former living presidents tonight saying that, so I guess he's talking to himself, I mean, they've denied it, like

he's such a liar, it's astonishing, like what this guy does, obviously either cognitive or just a liar, I'm not sure, where do you think, what do you think is happening here now? Let's have a quick update. Well, I mean, another, all understatements is complicated, like, I think the fatal

flaw of the Trump administration is they don't recognize our power as a species and

as a country, and that is, as powerful as we are, we're only a third of the world's GDP,

but because we've seen as the good guys and innovators, and that we did embrace this notion that if we can make you wealthier and more peaceful, ultimately, that wealth and peace will return home in the form of you buying our trucks and being our ally, and we can put a military base there. The operating system of 60 or 70% of the world was U.S. laws, military, flows of energy,

general rule of law, even democracies, even laws, and justice systems were based off the U.S. model, and to his left to accent the British model, it just got evolved, we were sort of 2.0, and he's decided, no, with 30% I can go out at a loan, and what he's found is all of a sudden, he's one third versus two thirds, and this is just, we, you know, we mourn my son not to take grape root juice into the, to the living room with a brand

new couch, and he tells us, don't be an idiot, I can handle it, and then he screams, "Dad, I need help, and I know exactly what's happened." It's just, well, what do you know, we're going to, I'm going to do this unilaterally, I'm not going to go to the U.N., I mean, talk, Gulf One, George Bush put together a coalition

“of, I think, 31 countries, he's got U.N. authorization, and he got the allies to pay 62”

with the 70, 70 billion dollars in cost, that work costs. And it great sacrifice for many

of them, and of course, he's been downplaying their sacrifice, and they're now, like, literally, saying no, and by the way, and if you get come out of NATO, fine, like they're now at that point, I mean, you know, whatever. He asked China for help, and by the way, China's ships are flowing through, so the notion that he's going to quote unquote an enemy or an enemy says going to people, he's been really rude to, I mean, this is just, and they didn't anticipate that

they wouldn't be able to count on their allies. I mean, they anticipate the Iran pushback, the strength of the, I mean, he was advised by, by the way, pretty much, stories coming out now are like, he was told this, he was told this, he was told they would do this, they would close the straight from moves, like everyone's leaking the shit out of things, which is really, I mean, what's interesting, I know it's a

say that? And then they all say no, and it looks like he's, it's a lie, or he's talking himself,

or whatever, the whole thing seems like lies come out of his mouth every day now that are easily checkable, like easily checkable lies, and then don't really work, and so something's going on something's happening in a way that's, I mean, I want to give him an excuse, maybe he's just a malevolent prick, but it seems problematic that he's leading this coalition of the one. And also, when you, when you hire incompetent conspiracy theorists, which is what Joe Kent is,

I mean, this is very upsetting for me as someone, you know, a quite frankly, as a Jew, and that is, he immediately said that the, basically, the largest military in the world in the United States is being manipulated by Jews, and this just plays into a very anti-Semitic trope being fermented on the far right, and I don't, I don't tell you, Megan Kelly, there's a bunch of

“others. Yeah, that this is all, this is all Jews fault. Yeah. That is just, that's what they were doing.”

That's not helpful. Yeah. So, and one thing to be against the war, and I think there's some legitimate, like, or to say Netanyahu has too much influence over, I get it. No, I get it. No, I mean,

just think the mayor's people can say we don't like wars, and, but they do always take it right

into that. That was, that took our crossings a danger as person in that regard, I'll tell you. Well, they're doing a victory, like they're like the number, whatever, five at the, you know, in our intelligence unit is, is saying what, what can to silence and Tucker Carlson is saying that it's the Jews. We're being manipulated by the Jews. Yeah. Anyway, it's problematic. It's a problem, and it's a, so oil prices, what, what is, what actual impact is it's going to have on it?

Oh, it's on it. It's a whole, it's immediate. I mean, unfortunately in it, those happens, it hurts, it hurts, uh, middle income families and Laura come already. You're talking about an increase. For every dollar increase to the pump, and it looks like we are going to have about a dollar increase.

It's another $530 a year in low income families spend almost get this 20% of their income on home

and auto energy costs. Yeah. And then the residual effects of food, everything, everything you touch is impacted. Everything got to you using some form of fuel or as, or as consuming fuel, and it's going to probably spike inflation in additional hundred bits in the short run. So speaking of which Jerome Powell says he'll stay on his venture until his successors confirmed by the Senate, even if that's after his terms expire,

he was every right to. It could be a while. The Senate hasn't even scheduled hearing for Trump's nominee Kevin Worsh. Do you have his center Tom Tillis, who I'm talking to next week, says he won't vote on confirmation until the DOJ investigation on Powell is over. They've, they've been handed some court things to Junipero in the rest around Powell for his part, and they're appealing it.

“I think for his part, Powell also says he'll stay on his Fed Governor, which I said he would,”

remember I said this until the investigation as well, and truly over. This is, I thought he would do this. He looks like he ran out of bucks a long time ago, and well and truly over means he could stay as long as he is a while. They're on that Fed Governor thing. He'll have, as you noted, many times enormous influence. So he's, this is the opposite of what Trump wanted, and he's stuck with Powell, and Tillis, I can tell you, is not, I mean, he's not stopping at all at all. So I think if it had

been a different president who demonstrated more grace to him, I don't doubt he would have stepped down, or if he'd said to him, "Listen, I want you to be my chief economic advisor," you know, I have even something more important for you to keep in mind, as long as Jerome Powell is in the room, I've said this. There's, there's how you think there's the governance structure, and then there's actually how boards and body politic works, and this is how, this is essentially a board of directors,

this is how they work. There's a bunch of them, and every board there's 12 people, and there's two people who matter. There's the largest shareholder, which doesn't, doesn't apply here, and then there's someone who's so fucking smart that everyone, they don't speak a lot, they listen a lot, but when they speak, everyone has a tendency to nod their head, and that, tell me the whatever it is, the other 11 governors are going to win, when Jerome Powell says, you know,

“whatever, the, the chair is the person who, he's going to run it, I don't think, I think Tillis isn't”

give, I know Tillis isn't giving up, he said it, he's like, he Tillis now suddenly is used to bend his balls, and he's like, no, I'm going to do the right thing for, he's very offended by the Jerome Powell thing, I know that, and so I think it's, he's a business person, he's a really well, he had, you know, he was even though, you know, he sounds like he's a smart guy, very smart guy, is very stuck on this Powell not putting, uh, large through, um, obviously he helped take down

if you're someone like Tom Tillis and can stop this, you do it, like, why not? What's, what's the

negative for him? There's nothing because he's now, because Trump tried, pushed him out, essentially, of the Senate, and now he's in enormous position of power, and, and influence the same thing, and so Powell's, Powell's not going to bring rates down, by the way, especially with inflation up, so Trump has gotten the opposite of everything he wanted, so. No, Kouchi said there was a 99% likelihood they would not cut rates, but where I was headed was, I would bet, 98% of the decisions in the

Fed from the Board of Governors, regardless of who's in charge, regardless of who takes the mic, the new chair, whatever Jerome Powell said was probably the right move in that meeting is what they're going to do. This is the guy that had a Mary Lou retina like stick the landing of the economy where

he basically tamed inflation by 600 basis points while not going into recession, like no one in economics,

“you know, I think wars just perfectly qualify, but Trump now has Jerome Powell forever, like,”

especially the dumb attack on his defense. I think another six or 12 years or something or whatever, basically to palda. And also he's going to stay there as the, as the head of it. It's just anyway. It's, it's different. Yeah, I'm on it. Go for him. I think he is, I think he is lit, and the first, he's a hero. He's a hero. He's a hero. He's metal of freedom, recipient. Yeah, he's one. Democrats love to show that they're bipartisan. It'll probably be Vice President Span's will be first,

the first one, and the second one will be Jerome Powell. Vice President Span's, who's but, oh, pants. I'm sorry, pants. Oh, Vice President, pants. Yeah. Oh, that's a good idea. The two of them. Oh, definitely pants does not give them the recognition. His legacy is going to age really well. Yeah, father. I like father at this point. Father is actually really well. Father and Powell. No, no, no, no. I don't work for me. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break and we come back. We'll

say goodbye to the Metaverse.

“Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously.”

On public, you can build a multi-assad portfolio of stocks, bonds, and options, and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. Go to public.com/podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com/podcast. Pay for by public investing, brokerage services by open to the public investing ink member, Finra and SIPC.

Advisory service by public advisors LLC, SEC registered advisor. Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool. Outputers for informational purposes only is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com/disclosures. Support for the show comes from back market. Listen, there's a lot of ads out there telling you to buy new products. I've actually found that buying a new car makes no sense. I've owned

car as my whole life for as in California, and I've bought a bunch of new cars and a bunch of

“new cars, and I think that quite frankly uses the way to go. And it's the same with tech products,”

but back market is giving you the option to find sustainable tech products at a much more affordable rate. Back market offers a range of high-quality tech, inspected, and refurbished by professionals. It's all they do. They have phones, computers, gaming consoles, vacuum cleaners, and even iPods. All of the tech at back market has been inspected and restored by professionals to ensure it is in perfect working mission. They offer 30 day returns, and a one-year warranty. And not only

is back market refurbished tech more affordable than buying new, it's also more sustainable. Back market is on a mission to reduce the environmental toll that fast tech has on our planet. This refurbished tech has proven to use less raw materials, leave behind less waste, and create fewer carbon emissions than new tech. They say E-Waste is the fastest-growing waste dream in the world, and it's an issue that back market wants to actively address

to initiatives including their Earth month campaign. Shop now at backmarket.com. Support for the show comes from MongoDB. If you're tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale, it's time to think outside the rows and columns, because let's be honest, you didn't get to tech to babysit a broken database. You got into it to

actually build something. MongoDB lets you do that. It's flexible, developer-first, acid compliant,

enterprise ready, and built for the AI era. Say goodbye to bottlenecks and legacy code. Start innovating with MongoDB. There's a reason it's trusted by so many of the Fortune 500, and that's because it's a platform built by developers for developers. They swear by it, literally. They call it a great-fucking database. Start building at MongoDB.com/build. Scott, we're back with more news and met a shutting down. It's VR meta-versan. Doom 15th. The

a hundred thousand active users a month. Some users reported that daily active users actually dropped to under a thousand. Who are those people? I want to meet those people. Over 70 billion

was spent on the project over time. You have talked about this for a long time. I never liked the

meta-versan. So some breaking news that broke after the recording. We just learned that meta is not shutting down VR support for horizon worlds. That's according to an Instagram post from Metacetio Andrew Bosworth. He said there was an open quote, a lot of misinformation about the company's plans. We announced, hey, we're moving away from horizon worlds in VR, and the headline is that horizon is dead. He said, it's not. And likewise VR is not dead. We're continuing to invest

tremendously. This is weak sauce. We fucked up. Nana is on live support and despite the fact she might have brain waves. We're pulling the plug soon. This is in my view and attempt to backtrack and not totally freak out the remaining employees before they find them another job or lay them off. This is dead in my view. And you know, in attempt to, if you will say, no, they're still hope when they believe and every indication here is that this thing is maybe in hospice but be

clear, it's on the green mile. All right, enough of that. Let's move on. Well, the press was falling over there. I do. You were not in press. Listen to a clip from 2021. I just love the fact that Mark Zuckerberg is is showing up with literally the biggest fucking thought in history and that's the Oculus. That's his vision for the Metaverse. Now one from 2022. And so if he pulls it off, it'll be one of the most impressive

feats in renewal, corporate, not even corporate renewal, but vision around maintaining growth

“that they pull it off. I don't think they're going to. I think this thing is already a giant flaming”

bag of shit. I was a original hater of headsets and Metaverse. And the idea of a much a cyborg is rocking around in their own world, even when they were outside. It was sort of a nathema to like everything we should be doing. Nice call Scott. Let me just say that's second of all. I didn't like Metaverse. The legless it was weird. Remember when he introduced it was so weird and awkward at the time? One of the things that's astonishing here is that he could have this much of

a loss and still they're doing so well elsewhere that this $70 billion doesn't matter and he's

fed it. Well, other people who have losses get slapped back to it. But this is such a failure. Please, please take a lap and conclude this chapter of Mark Zuckerberg's life for us. Here are the fact that $70 billion in CapEx got taken into a street and burned and that people didn't want to live on a legless future where they didn't want to be in a place where 40% of them were within 20 minutes nauseous or that they further separate from, you know, I'm

shocked here. I'm shocked this isn't work. I had big hopes for it because anything Mark Zuckerberg

“is clearly right. This is, I mean, the scariest thing I think the scariest thing about our economy”

other than the income inequality is the fact that we have now tied the fate of the S&P in the 10% wealthiest households who control the economy now and government. We've tied it to our ability to evolve a new species of a social, a sexual males and some females. And the thing is this is this is a healthy gag reflex from mammals, one on a very instinctive level. It's very uncomfortable especially for women, for everybody when you're walking on the sidewalk alone and you hear footsteps

behind you or on the side you. Because the things you can eat and the things that can eat you don't come straight at you. They have a habit of coming from behind you or from the side. And so your peripheral vision and the reason why billboards on the highway are still a big business is you notice shit in your peripheral vision. You're very subconsciously conscious of what's in your peripheral

vision or what isn't. And when it's blocked with a headset you feel uncomfortable. So they never

spoke to an anthropologist to say, all right, what happens when we amend a technology that from the moment they turn it on? It's like if you turned on your PC and it made you feel slightly nauseous.

“Yeah, now all those members, all of that stuff remember they showed it at CES years ago where”

you looked at a TV that was jumping out at you was sickening. And no one never, it was a big thing one year at CES and then it wasn't. Let me ask you, I'm going to ask you a more challenging question. All right, look, we're going to have immersive worlds, right, in some way. And some of it is kind of cool. I remember 20 years ago Walt and I went to Korea and went to, you know, they're so near LG and we were looking at these headsets in movies. Pretty fucking cool. I remember

thing and I thought it was wonderful. And we were all in a big room and I have to say it was a lovely communal experience because everyone was laughing and they dropped, you know, apples out of the sky and everything else. There is something, I want you to say what will work here because there is an immersive experience with screens that is very satisfying. What would you, if you were to pick a business in this, in the immersive screens, either on your head or in a situation like the

sphere, which I think is a spectacular achievement in a lot of ways. And it's also beautiful on the outside because it's delightful. What do you imagine that to be? They're neat. I don't think the lever of your big businesses care. I think their niche experiences. I think that our species has gotten really used to and comfortable with as bad as it is this world. So I'm Max is an immersive experience,

but it's never really lived up to the potential outline. It's a good business though. Yeah, it's been

quite frankly over the last 40 years. It's been a shitty business. I'm Max relative to the cost. It's been

“okay. I love I'm Max every time. That's what I do when I take my, I love seeing shit in I'm Max.”

I'm going to see Project Hail Mary tomorrow night. It's a niche business. The only place I want an immersive experience is when I'm having my teeth clean by a hot single mother, resilience, single mother. And then she puts on headset that I can watch. He did rivalry. Right. And she, you know, and then I start crying because I start thinking about my mom and I'm under the influence. I told it when she says, okay, okay. She says, one to 10 nitrous. I go 12 baby.

Can I tell you what I liked about like, are you right? They're experiential things. One of the things it was cool about three years. I have seen the Wizard of Oz a million times recently too, because my little kids are now watching it. So it's not something I want to see again and again. But one of the things I thought was quite beautiful was the ability to see things in the movie

that I never saw. Like some of the beautiful costumes, some of the beautiful, you know, set design.

“And oddly enough, the faces of all the people that weren't Dorothy, like, or the main characters,”

like, I found myself looking at these beautiful faces from another era, right? Like there was two twins there that I never noticed. And so one of the things I found, it wasn't just, everyone was like, oh, the tornado. And I was like, that was cool. But what was beautiful was I could really see things in a way that I, in a way I appreciated. So if there is something valuable about immersive in some way, like travel, I suppose, or when you go to a theme park and you

get on one of those rides that you like, you know, you saw our past the Golden Gate Bridge. I love all those things. Now look, going into another world, you feel like an explorer. It's sensory overload. It's really exciting. And then you want to out escape. Escape room is correctly named. You wouldn't, you wouldn't want to live in this sphere. Your body can't handle that much centuries, sensory stimulation in the sphere, by the way, it's in what I'm doing. And amazing

product. It's not doing well economically. So the ultimate sensory experience, the ultimate moment of awe supposedly, according to astronauts, is to go into space and see the world from another perspective. But guess what? What's the first thing they want to do after a week? They want to get home.

“So what, what I think, I wish technology was more focused on, I hate this notion that we need to”

colonize Mars. No, the real genius here is someone who's going to make this place a little bit more fucking habitable. I'm into looms staring out at palm trees and coconuts in the sand that sugar resand. And I'm an awe and I'm comfortable. And this is the only fucking universe I want to be

in. Yeah, no, I know it's that I've never wanted to go to the space. Anyways, it look, it's a disaster

mark. You were wrong and Scott was right. That's all I have to say. Speaking of scaling back, Open AI is scaling back on projects and focusing on coding and business users, pressure for the change comes from competitors like Anthropic, which you and I've been talking about dominating the business AI market. Employees also felt the companies do everything strategy led to a lack of focus, speaking of which Open AI delayed the launch of the adult mode, which would allow sexual explicit

conversations due to concerns from advisors over mental health risks. You think, also of concern in age prediction system. There's been misclassifying minors as adults, 12% of the time, the feature, which the company still plans to release eventually, would be text only. This is all the influence of Fiji Simo, who is the new top executive there. Very similar when Eric Schmidt came to Google. They were sort of chaotic and did everything. The two founders, Larian Sergei. And then

they brought Eric into really clean it up. Seems sort of basic. This is executive. But they do have done, it made it like a million stupid announcements. It does remind one of Google in that regard. Thoughts. You're exactly right. It's remember when Google was doing shit like trying to cure death.

but Ruth Perat showed up and said, "All right, Mom is home." Fun times over. The dog's pregnant and the garage is on fire. I'm in charge now. And this is the right move for Open AI. And that is, and by the way, and this will go to my prediction, Anthropic is not worth more than Open AI. I don't care what the last mark is on,

but preferred funding. But Anthropic has surged to $19 billion in annual recurring revenue

up from $14 billion just a couple weeks ago. $6 billion in AR was out of just in February.

“Open AI AR was $20 billion at the end of 2025. And here's the key. It's all about the enterprise.”

Because there's the only ones that are willing to make these huge investments in and get this care. Anthropic's enterprise market share has increased to 32% surpassing Open AI's 25% and since 2023, Enterprise AI revenue has exploded from $1.7 billion to $37 billion. Yeah, they've got to be the Open AI's really messed this up. And then the other, the other, the other staggering statistic here that is why Open AI is focusing,

which is the right thing to do is Anthropic is now capturing three out of four new spending and enterprise AI. So they're getting 73% of all spending among companies buying AI tools for the

first time. And 10 weeks ago, this split with Open AI was 50/50. So get this.

Thank you. He had set. It was 60/40. An Open AI's favor is recently as early December from December to now. It's gone from 60/40 to 20/27/73. So they are literally losing the enterprise market.

“So it's starting to feel like Open AI's netscape not Google, right? That's how it starts.”

That's interesting analogy. I just, I was there when Google was the first bout of chaos was at the beginning. And there was, you know, there was a cover of Fortune magazine chaos at Google. And of course, Ruth also shut down all their all-manor. They had so many ridiculous shit they were doing. And they could do it just like Mark with, with the Metaverse because they had all this money. But it was like dumb. Like, it was at the time when they would have you in.

And I was always like, this seems dumb. Like, why are you doing this? Like, why don't you stick

with your business? And they just wanted to be more creative or more something, more interesting in some fashion. But it's really interesting because this is at a time when I think, you know, anthropics been under pressure from the government. But in the end, they will sort and Pete Hankseth will be a, you know, a sad little footnote, a sad little drunken footnote in our history. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm speaking to somebody who won't be a footnote. I would

say his Bob Eiger's step down is, does he see you again? Eiger passed the baton to his successor, Josh Demoro at busy's annual shareholder meeting this week. Demoro at 28-year-old veteran at the company was most recently head of Disney experiences, which includes Park's Cruises and Resorts. Eiger is set to stay on as an advisor and board member until the end of 2026, not very long. It's unclear what he'll do after that before the last time he left, he did a bunch of advising

and sailing around on a boat in the South Seas. Uh, I last time he retired, which I said he wasn't going to stay retired. I asked him whether he planned to get into politics, let's listen to what he told me in 2022. Can you ever run for office? I'm not planning to run for office. Is that a no? It's just what I said, I'm okay. All right, fine, I think you are. So last thing, you should, I don't usually do not tell another white guy, oh please run for office,

we don't have enough of you, but I think you'd be an excellent, because I think you'd be an excellent politician because I don't think you'd give a fuck. Anyway, I don't think he's going to run for office, actually, I can't imagine he's going to do that. But what do you think his next act will be? I mean, he certainly had ups and downs and the stock has not reflected much of it. Although I do think he did a lot around digital, I think he did a lot around streaming. I think he was a very

good CEO from much of his tenure and not so good in other things. I think probably the fox purchases one people point to is being problematic, but in general, pretty good tenure, especially around

“streaming, I think that he made those moves. What do you think is next act should be?”

Hit the golf course in a joyous life, and I would call challenge on his tenure, Cara, because the last 10 years have been the most prosperous in the history of the world for American companies and his stock is below where it was 10 years ago and at the end of the day is the CEO. That's your, what's your job? You're evaluated, that's your kind of metrics one, two, and three. He quite frankly, he really fucked up. He's the guy who went to Vietnam, completed his tour

honorably, came home with medals, pinned to his chest. He could be a viable candidate for the Democratic nomination right now, but he's more, he looks less like Mark Cuban, and more like

He left and never really left the room. The convinced the board as far as I can tell to fire the

new guy and put me back in like some returning hero. And he has had huge wins in his face, but Disney has become Disney has gone from being probably the most iconic company in the creative community to a certain extent of represents what's happened in the creative community. And that is distinctive how incredible it is and their great IP and their great creativity. It's been bad for shareholders and it's probably been a difficult place to work the last 10 years. And he did,

he did make a lot of the right moves. He launched a streaming network, he invested in the parks. But at the end of the day, his last 10 years, there was a, there was never a clear succession path. He started to feel a little bit like, I forgot the name of that guy at City Group at any time someone got near him, got shot in the head. So he leaves, he's very likable. He's very smooth.

“Had he stayed away and then just let someone else run with it, I think he'd probably be”

a cabinet member, maybe even by, you know, in the next administration at a minimum. And now he's now he's the guy that quite frankly took Disney. He didn't take the stock anywhere. I get that,

I understand, I think doing the streaming stuff was critical to its future. And he definitely

pushed that through. I was there watching. I mean, he made a number of dumb digital moves over the years. They kept changing Disney. What a VISTA. I mean, I was, I wrote stories on every one of them. And, but I do think directionally, very few people leaned into digital and streaming the way he did, right? And I think you know, I would argue Netflix leaned in a little bit. Well, Netflix, of course. No, no, yes. No, they should have bought Netflix when they had the

chance and they, everybody had the chance at one point. But yet you're right. Netflix was in the, in the right position. But you are dragging around a legacy organization makes it very hard. I see organization that had the world's best IP. I mean, yes. Netflix. So, okay. So, Disney, in the last

10 years, has market returns of zero. And Netflix is up for, I'm sorry, it's a 600% and granted the other

studios have not shared any better. But with that IP, with the parks or cash flow, look, Bob,

“what's the lesson here? The lesson is the following. And I think about this a lot. It is very hard”

to pull off the ultimate gangster move for your brand when you're in a position of power and you're doing well. And that is to leave the party too early. And that is, people have a tendency when they're doing well and they're so iconic as Bob Iger isn't was to think, to just stay too long. Yeah. You want to leave the stage while people are clapping. You want to leave a party 10 minutes too early. You want to leave the vanity fair Oscar party midnight, not at 4 a.m.

when you're wandering on a loan and it's clear Emily Radikowski is not going to speak to you. She's there. By the way, at one point, I was sitting at the barbecue. We can talk about this, because you were blabbing away to all your other. I was sitting at the barbecue. No joke, in between John Hamm, who's quite handsome and Jacob's a man and Jacob Alordi, who was even more handsome and much taller. Yeah. Emily started walking towards the bar and all I could think of is there's no

fucking way she's coming to me right now. Yeah. No way. I'm like, I'm like the prices rise. This is the real Emily you saw her. Oh yeah. I saw her. Okay. Yeah. By the way, she looks pretty good. She looks pretty good later. What happened? Wait, I only want the Radikowski part. Go ahead. Nothing. She did. She just locked up and had a drink and at some point I'm like, I want to be the professor, not the stalker. So, but my favorite moment is, you didn't say hello.

I'm too scared. I'm scared. Oh my god. She's got to know we talk about it. I said hi to mooring down in Caitlyn Collins. Those are my friends. Sorry. That's who I hang out with. In the smart list guys, those guys are fun. I like those. They're fun. They feel sorry. The only people that come up to me are like, they can be as an intellect. They think, oh, it's so cute. They have a professor here. Let's go

be nice to them. That's our charity for the night. And everybody comes up to me and says, I have sons and I very much appreciate your work. Then they say, oh, can I meet, you know, can can I meet Judat Patel now? I'm convinced half people have the people talking to me. Yeah. We're checking themselves out in the reflection of my glasses. Oh, no.

“I can't believe you didn't speak to Emily, right? By the way, can I?”

Party. Yeah. Vanity fair. Those people are geniuses. I'm going to subscribe twice. The environment they pulled together that night. Yeah, it's nice. It's a nice night. I would, I think it's the most aspirational environment I've ever been in my life. I just couldn't

the new editor and I unbelievable. Mark. Yeah. Mark just is an amazing handsome guy, too.

Yeah. I had to say they've always had a good party. They've always been good at that when they're

“under all their different editors. I think it's not going to hang out with Larry David. It's like”

angry me depressed to press me to angry. Oh, my God, you look alike. What happened? Was there like a moment in the youth? Larry and I are friends now. We totally get along. Okay. All right. Yeah, we hit it off. And by the way, the Larry David show is really the Larry David show. He's like, I know. That's exactly who he is. He's like, what's the point of an Oscar? He just started into a bit. You know, okay, here we are. He has a new show that looks hysterical that he did with the Obama's.

Yeah, he's very, very lovely when I have to. And he has, I very much, I don't know, I got that, but I, it's like, you're there because it was, I did not see Bob. I did not sense the Kazmir sweater Tuxedo anywhere. But the thing is, you walk in and they like, do you want to do a red carpet? I'm more intelligent. I'm not doing a red carpet. I'm like, I am so doing the red carpet in the way. Yeah. So yeah, it's a photographer. And there's three X's. And I guess you're supposed to go to

one X and take pictures. Yeah. I didn't know that. So I go to the first X and they're like,

hello, Professor, and they're all nice. And I'm like, now I'm going to go to the second X and sit here and pose. Get the fuck out of here. And then I go to the third X. And by the time I got to the third X, I realized everyone's like, what the fuck is this guy doing? And one of the photographers just out of a moment of like, feeling sorry for me, kind of wave me along. Like, you're supposed to go to just one X. One night turn, but yeah, I'm a bad celebrity. Oh my god, could I ask you a question,

did you see Jeff Bezos? He was there. Oh, yeah, I saw him with Laura. I thought they look great. I don't know. I didn't know. I don't mind. Jeff's midlife crisis. I'm here for it. No, no, but did you say hello? I said hello to all three of them. I mean, I said, yeah, no, I said hello. I did not. I'm into it. Unless people come up to me, I'm intimidated. I don't like to approach anything. You could have gone and said carrot says hello. That and that one,

you could have done that. That's right. Hi, my rich father knows you. I just don't want to do that. No, he didn't like it. I would be bad. But I've literally freaked out at about midnight. I'm like, this is the best party of my life. I need to go home and take a Xanix and just recover from all that. I've heard the kid who been in my candy store for eight hours. Did you? I can't believe my only note is I can't believe you didn't say hello to Emily Radix,

I was scared. You're a loser. You're a loser. Jeez. And I think she was there alone. Not that I was like looking at her a lot. I think she was ready to say this was that was your golden opportunity didn't say hello. That's the end of our relationship. Anyway, a Bob Iger's next act very quickly. I'll go on a couple boards and I'll enjoy his life and he deserves to do all of these things. And then I'll have a lovely wife and speak at USC's film school and I think it's something else.

I'm totally wrong. Bob is 74, 73. Yeah, he is in really good shape. When he was in the last one,

“he texted me far too much and I was like, I think you need to do something else. Because I think he's”

got another thing in him. I don't know what it is. No, he's 75. Yeah. He could be in the cabinet. We could be in the cabinet. Well, that's 77, 78. He could be the head. Could it be the commerce secretary? I don't know. Yeah, man. I probably doesn't want to. We need that shit for. It would be ambassador for France and throw a main part in it, for aunt parties and like the US residents. That's perfect. Ambassador for France. Yeah. Let's do it. Bob, we're going to send you

to France. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. We come back. We'll talk about calcium-facing criminal charges. Your favorite groups of people there. So far for the show comes from CoreWave. AI is just a new tool that encompasses so much more. It's sparing a revolution across all industries and reshaping itself to become a big part of our future together. CoreWave is at the center,

powering some of the biggest names in AI. As the essential cloud for AI, CoreWave provides an AI

platform that combines next generation infrastructure and intelligent tools and expert support. It's powering the world's most complex AI workloads faster and more efficiently. For medical research and diagnosis education from complex visual effects from movies, to breakthroughs and science and technology, if it's AI, CoreWave is uniquely ready to power with purpose-built tech. The big idea is the wild visions and what is and why not.

“CoreWave is working to build what's never been built before. CoreWave is the essential cloud for”

AI, ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com/readyforanything. Support for the show comes from BMC. Before you scale AI to every corner of your business, before you supercharge your agents with AI ready data, before you trust your entire business to AI, BMC first. BMC is here to help you look past the hype of the AI revolution and look

toward an orderly AI evolution. For decades, BMC has powered the systems the world can't afford to fail,

engine for the AI era, the foundation for the agentic enterprise at scale, and as companies

“seek to harness the power of automation to streamline and accelerate their most complex and critical”

business processes, BMC is ready to partner with them. Because BMC is uniquely qualified to solve the orchestration data and execution challenges that AI creates. Before AI, before automation,

before orchestration, BMC first, how can you change the course of your business when you partner

with BMC? Learn more at BMC.com. Support for the show comes from Indeed. If you're looking to hire top tier talent with expertise in your field, Indeed says they can help. Indeed Sponsored Jobs gives your job the best chance at standing out and grants you access to quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

Less stress, less time, more results, now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. In listeners of this show, we'll get a $75 sponsor job credit to help get your job the premium

“status it deserves, at indeed.com/voxbusiness. Just go to Indeed.com/voxbusiness right now”

and support our show by seeing you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com/voxbusiness, terms and conditions apply, hiring, do it the right way, with Indeed. We're prosecutors say the production market platform illegally that people bet without a gambling license. Cows, she says the charges are meritless and said they should be regulated federally

rather than by individual states. The case is the first criminal prosecution against a prediction

market company. It's more to come. I actually, when I was at South by South met with the California Attorney General who today did a lawsuit, one of the lawsuits against the next star, whenever that ridiculous merger was. In any case, this is the states have been regulating gambling for years, like forever, for decades. So it's not meritless. What do you think that's this? Because what was interesting, another story popped up, which I found fastening at times of

Israel reporter received death threats from gammlers on polymarket after reporting in Iranian missile strike that affected a high-stex prediction market bet. Some betters tried to pressure and to change the stories of the market would resolve in their favor. And let me just say, if this is the topic people are really interested in, I'll read an email from one of our listeners. I'm a journalist in a fan of the show. I don't understand why I'm hearing calcium percentage

is cited during the show. As I said, anything, it's people guessing. I think it's more harmful

“than helpful. That's what you're doing. It's got to do that. I agree with you. What do you think about”

these markets shifting from predicting events to actively influencing them in certain given the gaming part, it easily gained unregulated bad actors. It is gambling. And gambling is very well regulated. So what do you think about that? I think there's some trees to all of that. This is one of those things I'm hugely conflicted by because I am absolutely fascinated with the data, where I would push back on the listener is, I don't know, this data isn't incredibly insightful. The wisdom, this is the

wisdom of crowds. This does illuminate whenever I'm looking at political races, whenever I'm looking at interest rate movements, I got a, I got a calcium. You don't think it's a trailing indicator? You don't think it's a trailing indicator. It's pretty much up to date and the thing about money and the thing about looking at, typically the people who did this stuff, or were academics, economists, or an investment banking analyst. All of them are conflicted. All of them want to

catastrophize because it makes this look smarter. All of us have third-party influences. Nothing

is more amoral and pure than money. It just, when someone bets on something, it really shows you what they really think is going to happen. And if you look at, it's, these speculative markets, speculation markets are prediction markets. If it's essentially put pollsters into a certain extent investment banking analyst out of work because guess what? They're much-- I'm trying to, I would push back on that. I just met with a bunch of pollsters on this topic.

Oh, in my opinion they're done. If you look at the prediction markets record versus pollsters in the last election, the prediction markets kicked their ass. Absolutely. I love the data. I am swimming in the data. It's one of the first things I do before I get on a show is I look at, I look at calorie data. I'm totally conflicted because at the same time, there's a really good argument that this is just gambling. Now, what's happening is they're

being charged with four counts of election wagering. The debate is over the fundamental definition of gambling versus event contracts. And Arizona charges claim that putting money on a contingent future event or occurrence is illegal. But at the same time care, if that's true,

Gambling and tapping into a prefrontal cortex, an immature prefrontal cortex, it is dope

a hungry and susceptible. In some ways, there's just no getting around it. It feels predatory

“and unhealthy. So what do you do? Do you infantilize? I think calcium is trying to be the clean,”

the cleanest, best lit place of this. They're not doing contracts on things like war. Whereas polymarket is off offshore and calcium is trying to get licensed by the same people who licensed the options exchange. But I want to hear what you think. I have no moral clarity around this. I think the states have been regulating gambling forever. So I think that's nonsense. That they shift. If gambling is going on, they need to, they're proving it. They're proving it everywhere.

States have been approving gambling all the time. They are. But so they need to be regulated in the same way. Like it's, it's my thing with everything. It's like if open a is giving legal medical or psychological advice, they need to be subject to the same rules people are, right? The same

everybody, like I wasn't Vegas for a second. I have to tell you you're absolutely right. It's dead.

Vegas is dead. Like I need to be in Vegas. Vegas is in your pocket now. That's right. I was like, I literally like, oh my god, Scott was right. It was so freaky to be in Vegas without people. It felt like I was in like blur of us, right? It was so weird. And you could feel the, the innovation of a place that is just with these big rooms and the casinos empty, it's weird. And so it's, it's definitely hurting businesses, right? These kind of things, whether it sports betting online or this

kind of thing. There's it, they need to be regulated the same way everybody else is. And states have every right to do this. This is, this is not. And maybe there should be federal gambling laws, but

“there haven't been really. I think that would be good. I think they would want that. I think they want”

some regulation. Yes. But let me ask you that. Let me ask you more questions. Well, that's the old tech

company said, oh, we please bring this regulation and they never got anything. I think they would

actually be up for it. So please bring us regulation. But let me ask you this. You have sons. I think about this a lot. Let's be clear. Much of this is gambling. It ended. And but at the same time, do you infantilize children? And I know first hand is someone who appreciates data. There is real value in this data. There is. It can also be easily gained. So he's, we don't know what's in it. There's a lot of attempts for print cider trading. But the more liquid markets, people are more

greedy. Anyway, a huge potential for insider trading. I get it. But let me ask you this. Do you think it should be put out of business, regulated or let to just run free? Regulated. And what does that mean? I'm not sure. I'm not an expert on this. But I feel like how are gay I want to know how gambling

“things are regulated and how you're getting into 21 would be one good start, right?”

Possibly. Yes, it's 21. It's interesting. Yes. Yes. He's actually on certain parts. Other parts, it's fine. But yes, age-gating would be one thing. It is infantilizing. We do it all the time with with with with real, real businesses. Agreed, born alcohol, military, drivers license. Me as we're different. It's the same. This is the same song and dance from all internet companies. We're different. We don't deserve the same thing. And they get unfair advantage here.

Who gets unfair advantage? These these these markets get unfair advantage. It may mean very uncomfortable, for example, when Santa and others sign deals with them because I'm like, because I don't think they know how to use them properly. That's the other thing. It can be so it's not reporting. It's not it's something it's an indicator. It's a data point. But it's not I guess I don't like them doing polls either. So I guess I just I find it very weak and it can

be very influential in a way. And so I just feel like it obviously needs to have some regulatory thing. With my sons, they don't actually, they're not big better. I don't I'm not I don't know why. I mean, I get that why the guy was in Vegas for two days. I mean, that wants like I was like, I walked right through the casinos, but that's me. But I just feel like it's the death threat. This reporter thing was a really interesting thing. This has implications that have been around

since the dawn of time. And they think they're different. And so how I think we need to have more transparency and to how they're doing things. I think they should have, you know, they shouldn't dead on deaths. Like, I mean, they shouldn't be I don't know if we should make them not do it. Or if you say, okay, you're going to do that. Give it to be fair. I do think how she is said, we're not going to create markets and things like war that might involve an incentive that might

involve death or geopolitical reasons. So that's the kind of stuff. But there's going to be someone who's gunna. So maybe we need some laws, right? Anyway, we have to win. It's a really interesting.

So calcium is just stopping. So like, high handed with them. Of course, they're going to come in. It's affecting things. So this is exactly why the government should come in in some fashion, at least think about it, hearing is talk about it and let's discuss the things.

Just before we finish, this is the last thing. Uber plans to invest $1.2 billion in

Rivian as part of a deal to deploy $50,000 robot taxis. I recently spoke with Rivian founder and CEO RJ Skaringe on with Kirstri. I also saw him for an extended amount of time at South by Southwest. Let's listen to a clip where he talked about self-driving. If you're a customer and you have a choice of I can buy a car for $35,000, $40,000 and it can drop me at the airport. It can go to the grocery store and pick up stuff for me. It can drop a friend to the house. It can do all those things

or a car that doesn't do that. It's going to be very binary. I think there'll be very few people that will self-select to say, "I don't want those features." Even folks who are not comfortable with the idea of self-driving, once you experience it one or two times, it's like, "I tried this thing that to everybody." It's so sticky. It should get your time back. Suddenly, you can be reading a book on your phone. It's just so sticky. It's like, "I think that is what it is."

One way of convincing one person, I'm like, "Supparty." You can text and drink. I don't know what to say.

“There's my- that's what I was saying for you. I think that was you, I was talking about. It was”

super interesting. I think it's a real blow again to Tesla. I drove the Rivian to at South by Southwest. I also, they have a really nifty bike called also, which I liked a lot. I really liked the Rivian. I think he's interesting. I think he's a great spokesperson for this stuff and they're wonderful. It's a wonderful, I may buy one, I might buy an R2, because I was super impressed with it. In any case, it's a really interesting move by Uber who needs to get into this

business and it's a good thing for Rivian who, you know, it's a tough struggle to get these cars, to get a car company going. Your thoughts on Rivian? I think it's a win-win. Rivian is sub-scale, automobile platforms cost so many billions to produce. I think Rivian has done this good job as anyone. I'm moving back to the US. I'm going to, if I buy a car and I've really enjoyed not having a car for four years, I'm probably going to buy a Rivian. The tea was nice, it's smaller.

I was one of those people to put 5,000 bucks down on it, like five, six years ago and never

took the liver of it, unless you probably look into that. New calcium market. What's the likelihood

“that this gets? These get through his money, but... I think I look Tesla's Mr. Real Opportunity”

here again and again, but I don't think he cares about the cars anymore, does he? He was introducing a cyber cab that doesn't exist and isn't being used anywhere. I mean, between Waymo and Rivian, I think they've ran around. But let me, it's also very, one, they need more scale. So this is a great win for Rivian. True. I think one of the biggest brand enhancements is to be known. There are a few brands that are falling further faster in the last 20 years and made

shittier cars than Jaguar. This is one of the great, one of the great British brands in history. The design and the cars last 20 years have just been remarkably unspiring. Now, the best brand move in my opinion in Jaguar is they have been the car of choice that I've seen for Waymo. Waymo? Yes, they are. So immediate, like, oh Jaguar is the kind of the Pepsi generation new cool car. I didn't even know what that. I had the look. I didn't even recognize the

car. I'm like, oh, that's a Jaguar. So it's brand enhancing for Rivian. It gives them all sorts of scale. And also what people have underappreciated is that the biggest winner, the obvious biggest winner in autonomous regardless of all the bullshit press releases. People realize it's not Tesla. It's likely Waymo. They have the capital. They're miles ahead of everyone. They have exponentially more miles under their belt in terms of testing this. But there's an outside shot that the biggest

winner here is going to be Uber because when you control like the apple, they're sort of like the apple day. I let, we always use the consulting. We always use the term custody of the consumer.

My first client was Levi Strauss in company and they were always complaining about JC pennies and

Sears and like, yeah, but they have custody of the consumer. You need to open your own stores. You need to go vertical to control the relationship with the consumer in the U.S. Uber has 75% market share. They're basically a monopoly. And so what they can do is they can say, they can push up and

“I can't say, why do you need to download the Waymo or the Tesla app just click here for driverless?”

Yeah. They could also do deals with Waymo too. And they can play them off against each other. They can find the company that wants to work with them the most and get market share.

Yeah. And then take a large margin. So what it Apple do? Because they controlled custody

of the billion wealthiest people in the world through U.I. and people don't want to learn a new app.

They extract $20 billion a year from Alphabet to make to make Google the default search engine. Uber is in a position to extract extraordinary deals around autonomous and make it and say people, oh, yeah. You want autonomous? No problem. Here's the Uber app. You love. And so, like Waymo,

“it's going to be interesting. Autonomous. I think one of the places that AI actually comes to fruition”

and exceeds our expectations is around autonomous. I agree. The question is, what's interesting is two of the biggest winners hands down are going to be Uber and Waymo. And I wouldn't be surprised if Uber is in fact the biggest winner because they have custody of the consumer. Yeah. Ultimately, I've been as you know, a big proponent of self-driving in a safe mode. I will tell you,

I would never get in a Tesla given. I had a long talk with RJ about, you know, I think he's more

on the, you don't need this many points of safety, but he put them on there anyway, right? And so compared to Elon, it's like I just have one camera or the guy in the back, like I feel so unsafe in Tesla's in that regard. And I think the way Waymo's done it is crap, but you're right, Uber's in a very, they could have been, it could have been easily sideline by all these companies, but they have the, I always used to say they have the reservation system. And that in your right is the chain of

custody. And you do trust Uber. I mean, what a brand. I mean, I know Travis Kalon is trying to come back in this sector, but I got to say Dara took that company and really made it into one. You know, you know, it is, you know, it is, really been eye-opening for me and it goes to something you said

that's always really resonated with me. And that is the thing about tech executives. They're

traditionally white males who went to elite schools raised in wealthy families. And when you've never been a victim, it's difficult to understand victimization. That's always struck me that I can till I walk in those shoes. You don't, and you know what women say to me that I, it makes so much sense. I just never realized it. I get into a Uber that driver doesn't usually doesn't talk to me. I don't want to talk to him. And I know that sounds terrible. I just don't, I don't want to talk to him.

Now, my father, every woman I've talked to says when they get in a Uber, the Uber driver tries to chatter up. And it's not me, but yes. Well, it's uncomfortable, especially if you talk to young women and they don't. And you know, who's really used loves, waymo is women. Women, they do, or else you can also now in Uber by the way, request a woman. There's a, they've done a great job. Let me tell you, Dargo's for sure. I don't agree with her. I mean, at the time, she can be a little

“do compromising with terrible people. I think he knows it. But yeah, he's a great CEO. He's done a great”

job here. All right. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. This is advertiser content brought to you by Stonyfield Organic. Our cows, them going out to pasture, they love it. They're so excited to go out every day. They wait right at the drawing effect. We milk them and we just open up the lane. We and let them just go right out to pasture. I'm Ron and Miller Goodrich, and I'm a dairy farmer in Cabot

Vermont. Our farm is Molly Brook Farm. We're an organic dairy farm and we are a supplier to Stonyfield. Molly Brook Farm has been in my husband's family since 1835. We started our organic transition in 2015. We had 53 acres of corn ground. And of course, we had to use herbicides and pesticides. And the soil was dead. Really, for all intents purposes, we stopped growing corn and stopped using herbicides and pesticides. And we seeded that down to perennial grasses. After that, we began to

see biodiversity in that soil again. To be organic certified, our cows need to be in pasture at least 120 days. I think the organic practices really benefit our animals. You know, having good

“feed, good water, a nice light area. That's what's important to us and that's what's important”

to Stonyfield. Visit Stonyfield.com to find Stonyfield organic yogurt near you. Support for the show comes from Odo. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder? With it doesn't different apps that don't talk to each other. Introducing Odo, it's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part,

thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odo for free at Odo.com.

That's OdoO.com. Your business identity is everything. From what customers see to what they don't. Like legal paperwork, website security and state licenses. Well now you can get more for your business with Northwest Registered Agent. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They're the largest registered agent and LLC

service in the US with over 1500 corporate guides. Don't wait, protect your privacy, build your brand and get your complete business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes.

Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/padevox and start building something amazing. Get more

with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/padevox.

“Okay Scott, let's hear a prediction. Can I just start very quickly?”

I predict this mega micropenus war is going to get worse and I am here for it. Do you know about this, right? Megan Kelly said Mark Levin had a micropenus and then President Trump defended his micropenus and then Marjorie Terler Green came in with a micropenus and Megan Kelly's doubling down on it. It's completely crude and awful and repulsive and I think it's going to get a lot worse and I'm very pleased. Thank you. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't, I think it's inappropriate to talk about

man's trying to tell you. By the way, I was at a, you're in Stahl last night and I looked over and

he said circumsized and I said, nope, that's just the wear and tear. Oh, Mike, you told that joke before. Yeah, there it's a clocking your penis. Yeah, everybody told. I'm not going to say Adam Grant, but I'm Grant said you got to cut back on the penis jokes. The party you missed is you. Oh, my nemesis. Yeah, your nemesis was like the more successful version of Scott Galaway. He's doing a podcast on the Vox Media Podcast Network with, with Brune Brown, the two of them. They're

trying to be the nice version of Scott and Carri think and he was, he's commented on your penis jokes and I said, and I literally Scott, I, I said, I love them. I defended you so hard. I appreciate that. And I was like, people love them and he's like, yeah, but you think it's the right thing. I go, it's the right thing. I'm, no matter how much my life. That's right. I don't want to be wrong, you know, that. Well, I was, I was, I want to be a little bent to the left. Yeah. Just congratulations

for being an Adam. It's a condition. I'm a special needs person. It's a condition. I'm here. Now I'm talking about my, I'm sorry, Adam, but my groupiness work cracks me the fuck up. And I'm here

“for it. And I hope more to come. And I think I think we're not done with the my groupiness. I got”

to be, I love it when they were with each other because one of the things I don't like about the Democratic Party is that I find for the most part when I just went on this great podcast, PB, this really lovely guy, he's a conservative out of for a lot of Dale. Oh, you want the get that guy. Oh, I like him. I thought it was nice. Anyways, the thing I find generally speaking about Republicans is they're like, oh, you want to be a Republican? Come on in. And when

you say, I want to be a progressive, it's like, we'll see. I feel like we apply way to our Ricos. There's a new Democrat in town. We'll go ahead. If you don't choose the right words, if you don't hold the gun correctly, let's call it Marshall, you can hang you. It's the right that's doing it now, we'll go ahead. Now, there's, you know what this is? This is a bunch of

“podcasts who know the algorithm, the more fights they get into and the more incendiary they are.”

You know, Candace Owens makes a living off of saying really vile things because the algorithms and the reason our nation is being torn apart at the seams is there's now a financial incentive in being vile and incendiary. The algorithms love it. In a world where there were editors and fact checkers and more reasonable people saying, is that a reasonable thing we want to print? She would be fucking nowhere or anyway. So I don't, I love it when these guys

fight, but at the end of the day it's, it's indicative of a bigger problem and that is our mediocre. Our overlords are algorithms deciding that this is news. Oh, you're so good. I don't care. I like the micro penis. I mean, I defended you to Adam Grant. I appreciate that. I'm telling you other than academic credibility and talent and higher IQ, that dude has nothing on me. That dude has nothing on. Do you know he was a diver in college? Even better. He was a diver. All his sort

of like, you know, his tweets about, you know, characters doing the right thing when no one's looking, I'll fuck you. All right, move a lot. Adam Grant, you and Pernay Brown, all your thoughtful

that's, that's clear. That's obvious. I love that Pernay. I want to be, I like them both and Adam's

a friend, so I trust he's taking it all in just. I hope so. Yeah. What? One more to Sue. Maybe

“let us discuss it on their new show. Maybe we should have a rumble with them. I think it could be”

evil twins. I think it was his intellect in my, I don't know, my something we could take over Australia. I'm Pernay would be Queen of Australia. We should do a crossover show. We're going to, I'm going to invite them on a crossover show. All right, we could switch partners. You know, when they switch the husband and wife. I, you know, I, I, I, I, I've, I've tried it, but I'm the one that ends up alone and no one's up for it. It's called a key part. Oh, you could have

Pernay and I, well, you've been on Pernay. So anyway, finish, do your, do your, do your prediction. Oh, I'm sorry. My prediction is open AI, Sora, social, media app will be shut down soon. Oh, Sora. Well, what do you know? You know something. No, I don't. I have done no original reporting trust me. Okay. All right. But they're focusing, which is the right thing to do. Sora

“is essentially open AI's, uh, it's sort of a tick-like social media platform for AI generated content.”

And users use their video model to generate short-form content. And they can upload it and share and share it, right? And opponents release, Sora came out at number one in the app store, and actually got more downloads out of the gates than chat should be teated. However, like the parties end, it downloads fell 32% month over month in December and another 45% in January. And some Sora is the little engine that didn't. And also users continue to drop by flies.

And but at the same time, open AI, open AI has to spend a ton of money to keep the lights on there. And some estimates are that it also brings a lot of legal challenges. Well, it's costing

them 15 million bucks a day or five billion a year. And despite that, the app is bringing

less than half a million dollars per month. And given their new focus, which is the right one, on focus, it's not central to open AI's core competences. They're, they're an AI company, not a social media company. It's not creating revenue. Big losses. And also, it's really unpopular, 62% of Americans disapprove of online videos created by AI tools. It feels just open. 70% of people globally would be uncomfortable consuming fully AI generated creative

content. So this new focus, this new adult in the room, saying we need to focus on the enterprise market is now quite frankly. We have seen it so much share and value to anthropic the first.

Yeah, it's stupid. It's stupid. Anyway, the first example of this focus is that open AI Sora

rest in peace. It's going to be shut down. All right. Okay. Oh, I like that. That's a big, that's a big call. I think that's a good one. I just want to make one other note before we go. President Trump's comments about dyslexia. I have a lot of friends who dyslexia. By the way, he said Governor News should not be present because he had dyslexia or has gross. What a gross thing to say. I'm just like, stop it. Like, stop like make demonizing things that are learning

disabilities. It's gross. He's does it all the time. But it's a continual thing. And everyone just lets him go. But honestly, it's just, yeah. And I predict it will have bad effects. Anyway, really, are you really surprised though? No, but I just don't, I'm like, no, like we, I think we should keep saying no to this fucker. I don't know. I, I put the, I put the sex into dyslexia. Wait.

“Anyway, anyway, that's what you, but that's good. God, I got it. Any, you're good. I'm sorry. I think we”

have to call these out all the time. And I'm not angry. That is just, we want to hear. My favorite stripper has dyslexia. Her name was density. I like to ask you that. Talk about care being a good doctor. Try to compete with my, my stripper density, my dyslexic stripper density. Yeah, right. Okay. Let's see who wins the iHeart Podcast over the year. I see you should be president. Anyway, we want to hear from you, said us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your

mind, go to nmymag.com/pivot. Just a minute question for the show or call 8555-1-Pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week because there's so much news. Today's show was produced by Laren Amin so I Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Our new interside engineer this episode of Manola Moreno, edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Mr. Vera and danchilon. The shock heroist box

made it an executive producer, a podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine, a box media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nmymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business.

Support for the show comes from Odo. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder

“with it doesn't different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odo. It's the only”

business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's my over thousands of

“businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odo for free at Odo.com. That's Odo.com.”

If you're running a business, you know the deal with most CRMs. They're packed with endless

features you'll never use, interfaces that feel clunky, and you end up spending way too much time

just trying to find basic information. Luckily for you, there's pipe drive. Pipedrive is a simple

“sales CRM tool for small and medium businesses. Pipedrive brings your entire sales processes in”

one dashboard, so you stay in control and close more deals faster. Right now, when you use the link, you'll get a 30-day free trial, no credit card or payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/box to get started. That's pipedrive.com/box, and you can be up and running in minutes. Support for this show comes from Wix. You can make a great looking website with Wix, and you can do it your way. Whether you want AI to jump in or prefer to do things yourself,

get a custom ready to use website in minutes with Wix's AI website builder, or choose from more than 2,000 templates. Get built-in solutions tailored to your business, and enjoy easy,

fuss-free domain registration, web hosting included. Wix powers more than 280 million businesses

around the world, because with Wix, you can own your individuality, create freely, and scale fearlessly. Ready to create your website? Go to wix.com. That's wix.com.