Tucker Carlson's Rebrand, Apple’s New Era, and SpaceX’s AI Deal

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the box media podcast network. I'm Cara Swisher. So I'm in this job interview. Oh, no.

“And the interviewer says, no Chuck says, what's this for your gap?”

And you're as a man, I said, well, I went to Yale. And she said, wow, that's truly impressive. You're hard. And I said, thank God, I really need this job. Wait.

Okay, that's good. That's good. All right, that's good. It takes a minute, but it's good. You have it.

Yeah, I don't know. I think you need to laugh out. Do I need to go lesbian? Is that what we're doing here? Yeah, let's do it.

Please don't. Please don't. Please don't. Cara, what do you call lesbian mechanic? What?

By her name, you homophobic. Oh, my God. Okay, that was good. All right, I'm going to let you have those. How is your weekend?

I, I, I, we can, what are you? How's he can, where are you? He likes so much. You know, he wants all sense of time. I know, it's true.

I went to the devil wars prodded to premiere. Oh, that looked fabulous. That was really on the myth that. Yeah, it was amazing. I actually get a line in it.

Oh, do you, that's right. I want to see it. That's exciting. And then I have to tell you, the home movie is actually quite, you know, it's, it's as good as the last one.

But it's also a little deeper and really interesting take on media. It's both funny and also like some profound and also beautiful. I happen to music is off the frigging charts. Is it? They're all at their peak.

But one person, like they're all great. Let me just say every, and Anne Hathaway is at the heart of the movie. But every character is great. Stanley Tucci, obviously, Maryl Streep.

The side characters are amazing.

Emily Blunt is great. But Justin Tharo playing a billionaire. He's playing like a Jeff base. I heard he steals the show. I'm sure it's a pretty, I mean, I'm biased.

But I've heard he steals the show. It's closed only because everybody is on so high level in this thing. And everyone looks amazing. Oh, my God. I don't know, he's doing a Jeff base.

Those Elon kind of thing, teal thing. And he doesn't look good. He's like a little bit puffy. He's like he's, but he looks good. He doesn't, you know, he's such a handsome man.

But I have to tell you, he is so fantastic. If you're Justin fans, one weekend when you want to binge, watch the leftovers. Jeff Frank. Oh, much different, much different. And by the way, I haven't seen the devil's product.

But we absolutely need more sequels in the world. But anyways, I will see it because I'm a huge fan of Justin. And I think Emily Blunt and Anne Hathaway are scorching hot. Yeah, well, you'll love this movie then. But I was so bummed, it looked fabulous.

I thought sequels don't work. This one is better, but not.

I love the first one because I thought it was such a great movie.

“The best thing to get happen for the creative community is if there was a 36-month ban on production”

for any sequel, because they have a total birth of original material to make sequels on. I get it, but this has been 20 years. So I'm going to give it to them. I'm not going to ship post. Devil's product too.

I'm glad you liked it. I wish I was generally jealous.

Let me give credit to David Frankel, who's the director.

“It's just, when Hollywood does a great job, they really do a great job.”

Like they really do. And so I have to say kudos to them and Justin, we love you. You're going to just die laughing. You're ass off. Yeah, I can't wait to see it.

Yeah, he's really cool. Yeah, he just had a baby boy. Yeah, he did. Congratulations, Justin. He's wife.

Anyway, let's get to the news.

Verse Tucker Carlson, one of Trump's biggest supporters over the last few years now says he regrets

helping get Trump elected. He offered an apology on the latest episode of the Tucker Carlson show while speaking with his brother Buckley, a former Trump speech writer, Tucker and Buckley. Oh, my goodness. Let's listen.

“I and everyone else who supported him, he wrote speeches for him.”

I can't pay him for him. I mean, we're implicated in this for sure. Yes. It's not enough to say, well, I changed my mind. Or like, oh, this is bad.

I'm out.

It's like in very small ways, but in real ways, you and me and millions of people like us

for the reason this is happening right now. Yes. So I do think it's like a moment to wrestle with our own consciences. You know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be.

And I want to say I'm sorry for misleading people in it was not an intentional. That's all I say. So Tucker might be tormented by the way. Is he trying to pull a Joe Rogan? He's going back to Trump to to when he needs something.

And he's done this before and those emails during that the trial that Fox had and lost. He would call them demonic. He was he's been here. And I don't think Trump has been anything but explicit about what he is for a very long time. So I'd love to talk about this and the idea of redemption.

Like that Rogan was trying to do it and of course the minute he gave him is like a delixee shows right up and green is one. The thing I was talking about was the you know you got a lot of pushback for for your Ben Shapiro comments this week this week. I've got no my comments my interview.

Your interview excuse me but also what you said about him and stuff. So these people seem to be moving this way in a way that's is it real? Is it not real how much should we hold people responsible for the things they've said previously? Green has been terrible. Ben has been many things or not the stuff especially around trans and people of color have

has been repugnant to me at least gay people. But you would put Ben and Tucker on the same category? I put them I put them all in a different way because I think a lot of what Ben has said previously is really if I read it I mean I can read it to you if you like but I want to talk about the bigger idea of giving people space they are obviously Tucker is and Rogen is and Theo Vaughan is

and Marjorie Taylor Green are trying even Megan Kelly on this sort of redemption tour in a weird way and I don't I I'm not necessarily believe it but I want to talk about this issue of when you let people say I made a mistake a couple of years ago when I said this heinous thing forgive me that which is what Tucker's asking for here. Like this is sort of due as I say not as I do because I think the right thing is be careful

shaming people for saying they were wrong and coming back into the fold you know because that's

“how we that's how we maintain our virtue and independence and elected elective events.”

I think we just need to be a little bit more when people say I fucked up and this guy is bad fine welcome them I that's the smart thing to do. I have a difficult time resisting calling you know telling Marjorie Taylor Green or a difficult time not telling her to sit down when all of a sudden you know when in no longer matters and she doesn't get his support or endorsement to run for Senate she's all of a sudden decided that he's bad.

For me when I saw those comments from Tucker I it seemed to me to me I thought I I think I absolutely know what's going on here. He's running for president care. Yeah and do you realize what an enormous lane there is for somebody who has very conservative values an enormous media platform an enormous army of accolades that he could weaponize right away and by the way

his anti-Trump and anti the Warren Iran which a huge swath of Republicans are now who occupies that lane right now and I disagree with calcium on this I think here and now Tucker Carlson is the most likely GOP nominee for president in 2028 put him on stage with Rubio and Vance he's going to slice him dice them so we do I believe is Democrats and I realize it brings some bias to the table I think you could go six seven people deep I think you know the eighth most likely person to get the nomination

in the prediction platforms for the Republican party JD Vance we are we have a deep bench as

deep as our bench is there's is that shallow JD Vance I mean he makes Jesus Christ he makes gobles like a ball I mean the guy the guy is unattractive they're going to have a field day taking all of his statements and his gymnastics and his hypocrisy and his weirdness whether it's saying that the Pope should be more careful speaking to notions of religion I mean he said so many ridiculous things that they're going to have a field day where he shifted rather a lot and then they'll connect

them and they haven't even started connecting them to teal in that fucking weirdness well do you do but the shiftingness of this Tucker thing for example I mean I didn't he know or why did he suddenly know or was it just because it's Israel and and this Iran war what what what is it it's like

“how do you calculate it it's strategy in this case it's calculated because I think he's already said”

this privately and it got out in those legal filings and so he's always hated Trump I think anyone

I think Tucker's a smart guy I think anyone who's intelligent and whatever you say about Tucker I don't know he he's an intelligent impressive media figure he is very good at what he does and he could not stand Trump and then saw the des audience was going there and that's the way he was going to make money was to be just blindly supportive of Trump now he sees an opening he's he's he's the leading candidate for what the heinous things he said like there a lot

look green has trying to recast himself he's apologized and now he has two years to take on an anti-Trump Republic he has two years to basically carve out and cement a lane of I am anti-Trump I'm an anti-Trump conservative that was anti war then neither vans nor rubio can carve out he's he's very well positioned right but then how do you I only talk about the bigger picture escaping this like the marjorie tailor greens and and Shapiro was doing that and and you know

we've gotten some a lot of flag get that your flag too bring it on okay explain because you said let me just push back it to if you don't mind sure you said you appreciate his moral clarity

“and reasoning I'm gonna take issue I think he's very smart there's no question I mean it takes”

a mission and I sometimes agree with some of the things he says not a lot of them but some of them he also took a shot at me that was inaccurate and put it on my podcast no you said on your podcast took a shot at you no no no before previously he did call to apologize to me about it which I appreciated but that said the more clarity thing I mean I would have trouble how how do you escape things like let me just tell you a couple things he said which sort of is why I found it a

little bit disturbing he called transgenderism a mental disorder he argues that home of sexual he should remain in the DSM as a mental illness he's called women who have abortions baby killers he's he said a man and a woman do a better job of raising a child than two men or women

“that's not even getting into some of the common seemakes about Arabs he said this was a long time”

ago I and he walked back those comments is being done when he said Israeli is like to build Arabs like to bomb and live in open sewage which I didn't think was something one should say and any number men and women things but and then green herself let me move on to green you know is saying a lot

of incredible things that said she another person who text trans and gay people says every now and then

drops what I consider to be very anti-Semitic tropes very quickly once she gets past I don't like war it she ships she she says Jewish when she means Israel quite a bit and so you kind of see the play there I do want to like how do you I couldn't I don't think I could talk to Ben Shapiro because of a lot of the things unless in some way I had talk about this whether our country and I just talked to a stead herndon about this is that most regular people do forgive people or they

say oh we didn't mean it and Tucker's trying to do the same thing Joe Rogan's trying to do the same thing have a new some trying to do the same thing yes he's shifting the other way which I I also have written him and said I find this like what do you do in here and and I we can disagree with each other but how how easy it is it to let people back in and what should be the I guess what should be the criteria I guess will be different criteria for each person at a very spiritual level

the question around letting people back in is for goodness is divine and you know you want to

to platform or not so I've had a lot of people from put on quote the manosphere contact me directly and say you have missed represented me you are part of the manosphere but your manosphere light

“we could have a productive conversation I'm coming on and I'm like to be blunt I think what you”

have said is so unproductive and so damaging for young men that I don't want to give you any oxygen I don't even want to get in your face I don't want to have an argument I don't I don't use the most famous misogynist I don't use his name because I don't want to give them oxygen so the question is do you give a guy like Ben Sarah well you can probably guess anyways entertain well someone who's been jailed for accusations of trafficking women I mean okay so but I don't he likes it every time his

name is used the algorithm's elevators contact content and other platforms he's number one

on substance and the reality is if you talk to young men most young men have written him off

a long time ago but I think that is because we he's such an easy punching bag we mentioned his name and the algorithms pick it up and elevators contact anyways and a lot of young people will be drawn especially young men to people who are controversial figures so my feeling is there's certain people you just choke off their oxygen supply so the question is with someone like Ben he has said in my opinion wrong even maybe vile things I said to him I said in my post comments after my interview

with him the thing that really bothers me about Ben is that he has courageously hauled out these far right people and said we can't engage in this conspiracy theory this hate mongering he said that to that group I thought that was fairly courageous of them to call out those people what I my issue or one of my issues with Ben is that when they were these people were conspiracy theorists accusing world leaders first ladies of having penises or accusing people of you know just very

heinous thing some of the transgender stuff he sort of was a bit of an apologists but then when they went against Israel that was the the red line for him and so I'm like okay he basically Ben has decided to excommunicate and call out people on the far right not when they're home of phobes or bigots but when they become anti-semitic and I said that I think I disagree with a lot of what Ben says this is Ben Shapiro he grew up in a lower middle class home he's so fucking smart

he got the Harvard he's built a great company he is willing to acknowledge points I love just watching him debate to just take notes on how I make my progressive view points how I articulate my progressive view points in a more compelling way and also I am done with this notion of this apostate culture on the left where if I don't choose the right words or have the right

people on my podcast people act as if I've betrayed them there is a line I will never have

canvas on my podcast I will never have an apprentice on my podcast but I think I think Ben brings a really intellectual adept clever arguments and view points to issues I don't agree with him on and I think it's a healthy dialogue I'm not sure they're saying you shouldn't have them on I think it was the moral clarity thing I think it's what he chose okay I chose the wrong or he doesn't back down he has a view and then he doesn't back down he's not trying to go

with the windows or what gets him most the most likes on Instagram I respect that I think he genuinely believes what he believes he tries to provide evidence and argument I'm I said I'm a fan of Ben

“Shapiro I'm a fan you have to separate the person from the politics I think he is an impressive young”

man who has who has demonstrated incredible intellect and really made it an incredibly successful

media company and this notion that I believe when we all start barking up the same tree we get really fucking stupid and I think that people on the left and the right have a tendency to all want to find the right words especially people on the left and get angry at anybody the one step at this point got the right has gotten so sensorious like they're the ones who are actually doing the censoring there is a purity test on the right right now around Trump around everything else

and pushing these people pushing back is hard I have to say despite that I find that the far right or the right not the far right I find the right just rights mean you off they just say we're lived arts the most hate I get is from progressives who are like we thought we you could try when you said you said Biden was too old you don't understand the assignment we thought we could trust you right or oh wait do you remember the hate I got on a podcast when I said the transgender

“women should not be allowed to compete in women's sports do you remember that one I mean it's”

okay you are you are with us 100% or you're against us well that's different than having a debate

I can say that and then Ben has said it okay so should we not ever talk to Ben because he said that

“I think we're not asking him to defend his comment I think that's what I'm asking you is a really”

difficult thing I've thought about having Marjorie tell a green on and then I read a lot I'm like oh I'm gonna like just because I like what she's saying I don't trust any of these people I'll be on I just don't and I just think they see the wind and I think they have legitimate problems with

Trump I do think green for example is an America first her and she's always been I think she's

very committed to the abstinous shoes and I think she is I don't I don't I think she's sincere in this in that and you can hear it goes way back and I go and I go way back to reader but then when it's a company by this others stuff how do you I think it's gonna be a very hard road back for everybody yeah but let me just create it with this call out a distinction I start with the thing same thing you're struggling with you you have more life since I think is your journalist and so

getting Marjorie tell a green on on with Kara Swisher and talking to her and putting in your

“great interview you're much better interviewer than me knowing how to forcefully push back you're you're”

you're great at that but I'll give you an example I don't think Ben would ever stalk people who came to testify from front of congress who are parkland shooters survivors and follow them for four blocks accusing them of lying and being crisis actors I don't see Ben Shapiro ever doing something like that at the end of the day this is your call and people can decide that all right if that's not what I'm saying I'm talking about more as our country like when do we let it go

like that's gonna be the reason I'm asking as I just did this incredible interview with this

dead is like when does it what's the statute of limitations and when do you end it when does we do all of us have to just leave Trump behind us and all the bad and I'm not I blame him but it I blame ourselves because it's really hard and it's and it's and it's the jumping like listen I got like a tag for saying them Reese weather's boom was just saying try and I that was a stupid it was weird but it was also but I also get it like the rage about it's worth the machine looking

for soft tissue to pretend the virtuous that's stupid so well the right virtue to you purchasing we all that's everybody everybody who's angry about AI there's a cop there's there's there's different this is complicated that's all I'm saying is I get words coming from I get words coming from and so I discount it and sometimes you know it's talking a clear this morning about something it's all was was being mad about the socks or something like that and I said to her it was

we're trying to school and she goes oh yeah it was really mad about the socks they said you know he wasn't mad about the socks he was mad because I've been away for a few days and he wanted me to drive into school I'm driving you and I said sometimes people are mad about things that nothing to do with that I couldn't get a conversation my 18 year old and it was an interesting conversation you can bring up pride or young in resentment no it just just clear it's so smart it's

“crazy watch frozen it's a frozen too but it's just I think we should be time as much like what”

is what do we have to do to get back to some level of disagreement and I do think there's no question that the greens the ship heroes the oh and the mega mega Kelly and definitely people on the left to why don't listen to as much was it interesting have tried to like poke at us and make us really dislike each other in a way that I think has been very dangerous and at some point there has to be some level of reckoning over that that's the right word you know it's a reckoning

and what is that reckoning is really important well three points there's some nuance here I would not group all of those people into the same group I think there's different levels of

mendatiousness and disingenuous and saying hateful things for money the right word so the first

is what I'll call camera culture or forgiveness I think in a culture where everyone's following each other around where everyone's tweets live forever if we don't expand the aperture of forgiveness we're just all gonna fucking hate each other I say stupid shit all the time I'm putting out 14 fucking hours a week a content I'm shooting from the hip if an 18 year old shows up to a a a protest on campus and says from the river to the sea not understanding how some people

perceive that you know I don't want to kick him out of school I don't want to ruin his career I don't want to I don't want to contact JP Morgan which some people want to do and get make sure he doesn't his summer internship is rescinded we have to get to a level of more forgiveness in a culture where there's incentive to find make a cartoon of people's comments and press on the soft tissue and and be outraged behind our computers and we have gone so far from that we need

I'm trying to do that I'm trying not to call out people for clicks when I see an opportunity I'm

and that is I do not think this nation heals until there is some form of reckoning Marjorie Taylor Green and Nancy Pelosi should discourage their profits from insider trading the people who are in charge or supervisors of ice and Minneapolis were an ICU nurse somehow ended up with 10 bullets in his person those people should be should be hauled in front of committees and punished I'm not saying maybe they go to jail when when there are people when the the the

children of our our commerce secretary are taking $500 million from golf nations in exchange for

favors in geopolitical advantage they should discord those profits and be put on trial there needs to be a reckoning here at the same time with respect to what people say or their views or being in sendy area or playing into a far left or a far right media ecosystem that then elevates it online we need to massively increase the aperture around forgiveness yeah I think no that's well said see we've had a good discussion about this

“we're still getting dragged online and I get dragged with you thanks I think you should do”

the interview I would tune in for the interview with Marjorie Taylor Green I would love to see what you said and how you how you approach it I think that would be I it's one of the reasons I would not interview mtg is I don't feel like I have the skills to handle that interview well yeah it's hard because it's part of me I'm like go girl and part of me is like really some of the heinous things you've done shall I there's a point it's it's a difficult thing because you know

I just I'm like you're very clearly have issues with Jewish people like it's you know you'd have to have an honest conversation she'd have to be open to an honest conversation instead of just clap clap clap we forgive you can I give you can I give you a couple real world examples I was supposed to go on build Mar and I found out that Steve Bannon was one of the panelists you did you remove yourself and I said this guy made what looked like to me a Nazi salute

“yeah and a lot of people say no he didn't if I had more skills I could handle that conversation”

I don't have that skills those skills I I as a non to my mother I I feel like I would have the fucking say something to him on live TV I do not want to hijack Bill Marjo and I don't know how to thread that needle so I backed out I was invited to go on Steve Bartlett's podcast tomorrow I was supposed to be on with Eric Schmidt on a discussion on AI I have a lot of respect for the brain of Eric Schmidt I I would learn a lot I'm like I'm in and they're like Eric can't do it

can you come on and in this panel with Sanker Chank I mean every time I see that guy he's yelling I don't want to get into a yelling match with anybody you went on that pierce when I told you not to well I didn't know he was going to he was going to ambush me with some far right weirdo yeah so I and by the way I like I like Pierce and he's been very generous to me and I

call the producer and I said never again don't call me you didn't warn me that you were going to

bring on some writhing weirdo to try and say to call me desperate and unamerican I don't need that shit and it wasn't a civil conversation it was you just trying to get the youtube algorithm to have a call out moment such that you'd get another fucking $40 from ad sense I'm not going

“to engage in that at the same time I'm not going to get on with I think that guy is far left”

who every time I see him is yelling I mean not like that what good does that do me what what good does that do the echo system or any sense of civil discourse that this nation needs to move toward yeah yeah well we'll see how it goes it'll be interesting I mean right now what you're so indignant right now what do you call what do you call what do you call a black man on the moon oh no don't please don't you're I'm going to have to fire you soon what and astronaut you

fucking racist oh I love it that guy is amazing that guy is amazing he's amazing like oh all right

it was the $150,000 first you said I wouldn't fly with a black pilot one was it Tucker one of them no no it was Charlie Kirk was it Kirk he was making a point around DI that he was there and by the lyrics done it to you know how airlines handle DI they do widen the aperture in terms of who makes it into the applicant pool but any pilot female male black white latino has to pass the exact same test at the same level it's fucking ridiculous that those things I'm sorry I'm not going to be

for giving anyway they'll put that pilot is amazing all right we're moving on I didn't mean to sound defensive I'm going to get packed a lot in the 24 hours I know but you know what it's good to talk about because everyone wants me to dump you everyone wants you to dump me I'm not going to do what I'm going to tell you today today today Scott did I have an effective and substantive conversation about the issue every one of you are I'm moving on speaking people we may have to

forgive Apple will have a new CEO for the first time in 15 years come September Tim Cook is stepping

a post on true social also saying quote I was very impressed with myself to have the head of apple calling to kiss my ass unquote unfortunately this was accurate uh John turnest the head of Apple's

hardware engineering will succeed cook first product person running the company in a while he's been

with a company for 25 years overseeing the engineering of the iPhone iPad and Mac talk about the legacy and you you will have to include sort of being tainted by this relationship with trump including recently the statue and the melani a thing turnest is joining Apple as the company is fighting for space in the air race and product innovation um talk a little bit about predictions for the turnest era and looking back at the cook era may I start I have to say he's 10x the amount the

value of the company when when Steve gave him the reins and then died everyone thought it was curtains for the company and that has not been the case he has been innovative with air pods and

“watch and not just not as sexy as Scott as Steve Jobs it has been as visionary so I think he's been”

a great a great leader for them that said he was tarnished by some china the all the china manufacturing

stuff for sure um because he's a logistics guy he he was maybe too much of a tomaton on that those human rights issues and then the president trump stuff is not a great look but I think he was taken one for the team would be my guess in that regard uh as a person I really like him he's he's been he's a really calm person I think he could have been slightly more outspoken about gay issues but that's his choice again I don't I don't force gay people to talk about it but he's a good

role model probably could have talked a little bit more about it that's my only but that's again his choice and I get why people don't want to so your thoughts I think people's careers are you know the second and the blink of the of the corporate world in the universe that's second 35 millimeters

“right mm-hmm no one gets all 35 millimeters perfect and tim cooks running at 34 and a half”

so to not this is as legacy tim cook is the most successful successor in corporate history he had talked about a guy that was set up to fail by virtue of the idolatry of the person he was

taking over for it there were immediately second death and the record that his records pretty amazing

the record itself is not just a joke yeah it's like okay who inherits jesus's man Steve Jobs was the new jesus because we had shifted from idolizing our athletes and our government officials to the idolatry of innovators as identified and marked by Steve Jobs and then who was taken from necessarily like jesus I mean it was just he was he has become a mythical godlike singer so any guy taking you want to talk about the biggest use to fill in history

and what did tim cook do he took the stock up tenfold operationally he built the most probably the most robust impressive supply chain in history he figured out a way in a foreign nation to take advantage of the collision between advanced manufacturing and low wages and somehow get two thousand parts to one place or different places for assembly and build a super computer for four hundred dollars that if you tried to build it anywhere else

would cost four thousand dollars he figured it out he also created it people say he wasn't a new product guy my favorite technology in history in history these things they are positive love your AirPods and AirPods if they were their own business would be a fortune fifty company and it's I think of it's the most successful piece of jewelry in history in the highest margin in addition what he decided to do was to say okay I'm not going to launch new products

I'm going to take existing products and applications and take a phone and evolve it to a super computer where you have payments where you have music so an ecosystem is what you're talking about creating but he he took the iPhone from a phone to a super computer in your pocket that was media transactions and it became the iPhone pulled off the impossible and that is if you want really high margins like Ferrari it's a niche with limited volumes if you want super high volumes

“like a Toyota you have to price it to get low margins the iPhone is the only product in history”

that's managed to get the production volume of a Toyota with the margins of a Ferrari the iPhone has created more gross margin dollars than any product in history arguably speaking the iPhone is the most successful product in history there's been nothing like it he did it with a lot of grace there wasn't anyone shit posting or leaving or filing lawsuits and if you want to talk about apples as sent past say Samsung or Android go buy a phone and Android phone you're you're talking to a

and then you are not great I'll tell you that there's there's some you're so awful there's there's some beautiful form factors that I like I wish there was no I mean the retail the distribution for Android got it yeah you go into an apple store if they opened a coffee store it probably be if they opened a coffee counter in the apple store it probably the highest gross in retail in the world and by the way it became the highest gross in per square foot retail

besting Tiffany in the early odds let me ask you his negatives what would you say I would definitely think the the controversies around China certainly but that they seem in the we're review mirror what about the Trump relationship the China one look he had to take a huge risk on a company that we had geopolitical tensions with he couldn't look into a crystal ball and quite frankly it looks as if we've it looks as if we've survived it and I would argue I would argue that China

in the US have a vested interest in figuring out a way to get along because apple is so important

“to China and China is so important to this US company called apple I think cross commerce I”

forget the German word for it is firms that trade trade with each other are just less likely to go to war with each other so I I my huge fan of what he has pulled off in China the Trump stuff we were very vocal about it it pissed me off I think a Tim Cook there are few people who have benefited more from the American system and civil rights and gay rights and rule of law and systemic laws around business and a lack of favoritism and a lack of tariffs than Tim Cook

and yet he you're right he played the game his priority was shareholders so he was strategic and kissed the guy's ass I get it it would have been nice if he had been a little bit more

forceful and pushback but the reality is neither did the other 499 SNP 500 CEO so quite frankly

I think he gets a hall pass oh you don't see you don't see Nidelah there you don't see like Nidelah went to the meeting he went to the meeting but I'm talking about the like he didn't go to the malania premiere he didn't any didn't do the bring him a present and just it was

“I thought it was taking of his long very decent tenure and I don't think I think I know I have”

a feeling I know what he did it he's like it had to be done essentially I have to kiss up to him and then of course Trump returned the favor by saying he kissed my ass which is just like Tim Cook well this is the question I would ask of all the CEOs on a balance score card of having a good team fostering leadership of of showing grace not posting other people who scores higher than Tim Cook in the history of business Cook or Nidelah I would say Cook or

I think Nidelah okay so we got a 99 point he got 1590 on the SAT he did he got one question wrong I mean okay I got I'm just this guy the question I would agree with you this guy

is a first ballot hall of fame a one hundred and American citizen and when when people leave the

stage everyone should just be also leaving at the right time by the stepping down he's having been the power like an African dictator right now it's so um turnous very quickly predictions for the turnous era again talk about big shoes to fall the the only um you know

“better than I do the only thing I'm fascinating about this guy is that he tinkers with like”

go cards and he's a hardware guy so it says more about the board they said we're about hardware we're not about services and this is about trying to innovate about products you know and better than I do I don't know I've met him a couple he wasn't he didn't stick out compared to some of the others there that were in the contention but I do think he's I have a product person is really important because they've got a really evolved the iPhone in ways and and I still have to get

some glasses thing going I know you're against it but there's some lighter glasses thing that has to get going I think they haven't been great in the home they've been okay and so there's a lot of and and then of course how how AI is integrated into all these products it's going to be within with privacy and safety especially given the rage about AI um I know you all think AI is not going to happen but it's going to happen so I think that's I think we'll see

I think you know again this is a group of people that have been there forever and I would have like to see maybe a little bit more shake up but I see why they don't why would they because it's working and so you know he's you know he's younger he's more vibrant and we'll see how he does anyway let's go on a quick break we come back new details about SpaceX IPO support for the show comes from BMC before you scale AI to every corner of your business before

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that assist but a_i_ agents that navigate complex matters harvey was built on legal agents that analyzed draft and execute with precision but great lawyers don't just complete tasks they

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helping teams move faster with greater precision and confidence harvey a_i_ tailored for law learn more at harvey dot a_i_ Scott we're back at space x blockbuster ipo approaches the company is doubling down on a_i_ striking

a deal with cursor a coating startup from possible 60 billion dollar acquisition uh also some new

details from the ipo filing e-lon_ and a group of insiders we'll have control of the company through a dual-class stock structure what a surprise e-lon increase his stake in the SpaceX last year buying 1.4 billion dollars with a stock from current and former employees he stands to get 60 million more in shares if SpaceX market cap reaches 6.6 trillion dollars in the company completes a plan to build data centers in space slight hitch the ipo perspective once the data

centers and plans for the moon and mars rely on unproven tech and might not be commercially viable um it let me just add um talk about these plans and in other news Tesla's that was latest earnings reporting better than expected numbers but still way below levels from a few years ago one bright spot the company said demand around the world is growing obviously because rising fuel prices increased demand for e-vis and they're the front runner in that shares initially

rose in extended trading but gave up those gains as Elon warned that significant increase in capital

caps which he noted was going to start at $25 billion for robots and all sorts of large

ambitious projects I don't really care the details those cool if we work great if they don't too bad or you know shareholders um you know again it's Tesla the car business is not the business anymore so he's got to reach for something else I don't fault them for that um any uh any thoughts about the ipo and then Tesla? Well the the news is their acquisition or an ounce acquisition of cursor in my senses that X-A-I has not figured out a way to develop a revenue model or a product

“the garner's revenue well all the all the founders of left except for Elon I think there's”

no need luck cursor's there attempt I think to bolt on a front end that has a commercially viable product yeah you're right the other observation I would make is that you know buyers use statisticians lie in liars use statistics some of these numbers are just such bullshit so when open a i said they were raising money at $850 billion okay college a trillion if you guarantee me a 17% preferred return and I have a liquidity preference I don't care what number you put on the the press release and then

a i's press release there were two and a half times the number that's a lie here that I'd want

to know more information about is a 60 billion dollar acquisition price and I would bet it's

structured something along the lines of the following that if we go public and get a one and a half or two trillion dollar um market cap we're going to give you options where 3% of the company which dada is 60 billion dollars they don't have 60 billion dollars in cash anywhere they don't yeah

“so and I also and recently since all mobbed up with that one I think in the whole but they're all”

the same people but they want to put out a headline number of 60 billion dollars to get to note more value in this thing than there's probably there let me be clear no one no one is catching a check for 60 billion dollars right now so like I think that like musk with respect to business and what I'll call perception and pulling an a narrative around getting access to cheap capital to pull the future forward he's likely the best in history maybe the exception of I don't know

Netflix and Amazon played that game really really definitely as well but his ability to kind of continue to say no look over here as I stuff the rabbit into the hat oh wait you figured out Tesla it's like just a mediocre auto company with low mind we look over here oh space is only got 12 billion and revenues and one and have wait look over here I mean it's just and integrating space connectivity broadband satellites AI autonomous space it's not that idea it is like every eight-year-old boy's

dream I mean it's like a company envisioned for an eight-year-old but he is very good at this he's very good in creating one plus one plus a little bit of jazz hands equals one and a half trillion dollars and I look at this acquisition makes no fucking sense it's bullshit the 60 billion dollar number it's probably a good idea because XAI needs more human capital and it needs something it

“quite frankly it just needs more product management he has to hide things in things that's why”

Twitter went into grock right into XAI because they had to hide it in there like the losses and the climbs and whatever it's still hugely influential for him same thing with this is his grock thing like all the people who he started it and touted it with have left so he's got to make you know he makes it it shouldn't do a very steady shit sandwich sometimes and and spending you know

you're just going to get what you get with this guy he's going to always advantage himself

he wants to do cool things he's going to take your money to pay for it and these numbers are insane but they'll probably go up so we don't we can't say don't invest but the fact the matter is they're you know are there going to be a million robots in their homes you can and you can by the way there's a million movies of him talking about full self driving and I didn't even get into this here but it didn't happen like everything he said was going to happen didn't happen

but he's really good at raising money he's really good at innovating certain things but then he moves on and so I think he just have to go with and then he has the starlink in the middle of it

“and so that's that's what you get with this guy the question is is it rabbits and and silliness”

or is it the real thing it does it hardly matter given the series go up right does this see this is a problem when you control a board and you have me all the board members a lot of money you end up doing deals that have no fiduciary oversight so and this is this and this shit is boring but no one pays attention to stuff it it was a share for share deal when when SpaceX acquired x-a-i and they valued x-a-i it's 76 bucks and SpaceX at 527 if SpaceX had a board that could

push back they would say no x-a-i is not worth in any way two hundred and seventy billion which is the value they're putting on Twitter with an a-i veneer no it's not worth that so we're not taking that delusion but because Elon owns equally large amounts in each he doesn't care he doesn't care so that's why he can't control right but meanwhile space x-a-holders in my view are getting fucked to try and bail out x-a-i and Twitter before that and Twitter and in bail out

at some point and is bailing out Twitter shareholders who he promised back me in this ridiculous overpay of forty four billion dollars and I will figure out a way to get you your money back but the problem is there's no one who has who can be a real fiduciary here and stand up for the shareholders they're supposed to represent because musk is in charge see above two class two class shareholder company agreed no I think you've got it just right and you know what

I hope you get some million robots I've heard is robotic stuff is revolutionary but like just

land it land the fucking plane so that's it's a but you know it doesn't matter these shares are going to jump they're just he has this incredible ability to do so he's the steep jobs used to

I think he's got a reality distortion field sometimes things happen sometimes they don't

all right we're going to go on a quick break we come back we'll do a quick round-up of the rest of this week's news there's so much news support for the sure comes from back market listen there's a lot of ads out there telling you to buy new products I'm at a point in my life where I'd say two thirds of the things I buy

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and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast that's indeed.com/podcast terms and conditions apply hiring do it the right way with indeed. Scott we're back now let's end with the news run down of other stories I'd like to hit quickly

first health secretary RFK junior made quite an impression as usual this week testifying for

Congress besides heavy breathing on the microphone which is disturbing let's hear a clip of him defending Trump math will senator Elizabeth Warren tries to ask a question there's two ways of calculating percentage if you have a 600 dollar drug and you reduce it to 10 that's a 600% he just kept going on the math Elizabeth Warren wasn't having any of it meanwhile a report showing the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines has been blocked from being published in the CDC and prevention

scientific journalists the second time they're doing trying to pretend these vaccines didn't work

“thoughts very quickly. I think headset is doing more damage to people outside of the U.S.”

than any person in recent history and I think RFK junior is going to do more cosmore death disease and disability amongst Americans than any person in recent history and president Trump has to take credit for that but when you listen to the guy talk he just he absolutely has no call if there's one I mean you just did you're doing a show on this if there's one place you'd need to defer to the experts and folks expertise isn't actual thing it's around health

and they have clearly decided all right this guy is a fucking loose can in talking about

what's interesting is that if he had ovaries they would have fired him by now I mean they seem to

be quick to fire women women to the dirty mouth lady left the late heart I mean what the three people now that have been like oh all women anyway there was one guy failed and who's fighting

“with tech Seth but go ahead the navy secretary yeah so like I think RFK junior is and I this”

words overused RFK junior is dangerous murderous and no one loves you know no one loves RFK junior more than measles and we're about to see in my opinion we've already seen it a potential comeback of some of the most devastating diseases which we had eradicated because of just junk science head up your ass beliefs and conspiracy theories the fact that this guy has been charged with the health of America and overseas the CDC is gonna set us back years of not decades decades decades

and also he's just such a suck-up to Trump except let me just tell you he's run for president too by the way they'll wake up in the morning look in the mirror and say hello mad dammer Mr. President he can not be our president like God if I had to pick I don't know what I would do I'm not gonna have to pick I won't pick any of them um very quickly crypto billionaire Justin Sun has sued the Trump family's crypto venture accusing criminal extortion for freezing digital

tokens over his refusal to invest more money with a company over true social devanunius is

departed as the company CEO after four years in the role where they may have five million dollars a

year and one year he was paid forty six million dollars he's an incompetent moron it thoughts on that just what a surprise Justin Sun you tried to pay to get out of an SEC thing and they fucked you what a surprise mobsters mobsters are gonna mob I don't know what else to say in the wick-offs are involved somewhere in here one of the children it goes to the notion of reckoning

“I think it should be done to the letter of the law but I think right now the many of the people”

running for president or just many of our fine people serving in government and the Congress should be outlining and putting out plans to work with to coordinate with states AG and wick-offs kids should not be getting 500 trillion dollar investments from the Gulf from who is meeting with a cabinet secretary I think they're getting rid of that that's somewhere has to be a crime and I think we have to start signaling we are going to pursue these crimes and the statute of limitations I believe

on the amoluments got whatever it is this is probably this is probably I bet there's some very serious crimes this could potentially under defense threats so but the fact that I went to an event we're stealing wick-off I spoke right after him I just can't get over in the vice president vice president gore was there I mean this guy is engaging in naked criminality and so and by the

“I don't think it should be political retribution I think we also should go after some Democrats”

specifically around insider trading well let me get to that for the prediction market news calcium is fine it's suspended three congressional candidates not both Democrats and Republicans for betting on their own races that's not allowed over there calcium thoughts there all these rules have to go in place a lot of companies are doing them now do not be do not be betting on stuff like this it is insider trading I'm glad calcium called it out as that thoughts is a really

move on calcium's part I mean okay so there's good and really bad here the good is that calcium said in this will cost them the politicians will come out against them they said you're not allowed to do this we're finding you that's the good part good for them smart move politically strategically for uh direct the CEO of calcium this is what's wrong with it we shouldn't need companies to regulate themselves we the fact that you know the marketplace hates avoid it hates a vacuum there's

so little regulation that the company itself is finding people it's like if what if what if all of a sudden Chevron said okay your manufacturer in our oil and putting too much carbon into the air because we are so fucking freaked out about the lack of an an EPA that's where we are right now the only regulation that's come down the pike in this stuff has usually been regulation to stop regulation and so when companies feel everybody hopes that a company's gonna weigh in and regulate themselves

that is not the way to run industry or a country and they are they are in some cases a several companies have put in rules about this but it's insider trading is all we that just gives

you a sense for the fact that's no sheriff here it's basically this is to a certain extent it's kind

of like vigilanteism that because there's no sheriff around we have to enforce the law so good on calcium but it's a it's a terrible indictment on our lack of regulatory infrastructure

anyway uh one more quick break will be back for predictions security program on spreadsheets new regulations piling up and audit dread it's time for vanta vanta automate security and compliance brings evidence into one place and cuts audit prep by 82 percent less manual work clear visibility faster deals 0 chaos call it compliance or call it calm appliance get it join the 15,000 companies using vanta to prove trust go to vanta.com/com

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that makes your work easier CRM accounting inventory e-commerce and more and the best part odil replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost that's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try odil for free at odil.com that's odol.com okay stop when you some predictions very quickly people know one of the other shareholders just approved a deal with paramount although it's facing a lot of regulatory scrutiny i suspect

it'll get through but it's going to be a lot bumpier and so that's going to be an interesting thing there's a lot of pushback from Hollywood all kinds of regulators so even if it's just reach this step i got my thing in the mail-ons and mourners shares thanks for the money david it's uh it will see where it goes i i don't know there might be might be a little rockier than then people think but they'll probably shove it through because they've only got a few months to before

Trump loses a lot of power your your prediction by the way it's it right now on the prediction markets it's saying that the likelihood it closes around 72% which is less than i thought yeah there's a real it was like a one and three chance it doesn't close yeah there's some

“rockiness there anybody go ahead yeah i think so my my prediction is that when the SpaceX value”

when the SpaceX IPO goes out you will see an almost non-equivalent but a proportionate decline in the value of Tesla because right now investors are paying for that Elon premium and that is an inflated multiple exchange for muscarism and vision and right now Tesla's 4p is 185 that's 12 times higher

than the auto industry and basically they're they're paying 12 times what anyone else is

garnering the auto industry for a car company that has posted sales declines for two years in a row and abroad b_y_d_ has surpassed Tesla's the largest seller of e_v_s_ and eating away it's european share in a new battery technology they're doing in china right now it looks really promising go ahead in addition robo tax in optimist or long-shot bets them in a payoff for five years if at all so essentially all of a sudden retail investors are going to have an opportunity

“to buy into some of that Elon vision and magic but with SpaceX and so i think that magic”

accolite worship of that creates that hundred and eighty five times earnings of Tesla is going to massively deflate because i think all of that idolatry revenue is going to go into SpaceX oh that's interesting so boom what if he merges it in they need robots at their data centers in space you predicted that for a while i i was right about the last one yeah you predict well okay that's a whole different ball game but if there's assuming they maintain distinct capital

structures you're going to basically see just a massive transfer of market cap from Tesla to space

so except the the stuffing is knocked out of Tesla they're not going to make the robots that are going to run the data centers in space i look i think industrial industrialized robots are incredibly exciting i i think the notion that you're going to have a robot in your house bringing you your super whatever i just don't i don't i don't see that i'm going to have that for you when you're old in case you're i've already got a Filipino man named man he with a moisturized hands lined up

no you're getting a robot named barbra you're going to push me around you're going to have

okay hitting you on the head like i can't believe you said that back in two thousand

“four late for our podcast the one a webbie forty years ago yeah that's true we”

talked about the webbies oh my god we want a web we want we want both web all of us and also lost boys got one right is that correct so you won for on with care swisher and interview

and pivot one it's third year in a row for best business podcast and my newsletter

numerous you know malice one for best business newsletter and great was it was on her thank you and last boys won for best special series co-hosted with uh the mooch five webbie wins between the two of us care anyway uh we appreciate we like the webbies we have fun with them anyway that's a fun show we want to hear from you send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind go to nmymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call eight five five five five

“one pivot okay that's the show very good show Scott that was a very good discussion i think i”

were i came across as defensive no you didn't you didn't you didn't you didn't you didn't know it was

called a discussion any well i'd be enough care i never thanks for listening to pivot and be sure

to like and subscribe to our youtube channel will be back next week today's show is produced by Lairon even so he Marcus Taylor Griffin and Todd Weissman earned you to try to interview this episode monoma reino edited a video thanks also to Jebros miss a very unintentional on this chakra is talking to me as the executive producer podcast make sure to follow pivot on your favorite podcast platform thanks for listening to pivot from your magazine of ox media you can subscribe to

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