USS Lincoln Fallout, Spotlight on Natalie Harp, and Press Secretary Succession

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every day to help it all make sense. Find us anytime at TheRoundout.com, and we'll see you there. I'm not going to speculate on what Trump and Natalie Harper doing, but Natalie Harper has been obsessed with him for years. There's a bunch of photos of Natalie Harper smiling at him, like that new movie obsession, you know the new horror movie that's coming out.

Yeah, doesn't end well. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Caras Wisher, and I'm kicking off another week of... "God, free, oh, yes!"

I never get sick of that. Yeah, Scott is still away. I don't know where he is. He has not been in touch,

“which is a good sign or bad sign. So I think he's on some island. He might be who knows where he is,”

and some expensive place. So I brought on a co-host Scott would approve of a young man. It's Adam. I don't know that sounds weird. Okay. It is a sound weird till you said it sounds weird. It was fine. Anyway, it's Adam Bakler, Gen Z commentator, and host of the Adam Bakler show. Talk a little bit about your background for people who don't know. First of all, I want to say thanks for having me on. I'm excited to co-host. I really appreciate how you guys

do put attention on young male issues, which is obviously what you're getting towards. You guys talk about it in a very unique way. And that means a lot. I'm 23 years old, and I'm building a media company in Chicago. I've got a team of five to six scrappy people. I do a lot of debates and a lot of political content online. And I've just built this over the past two to three years, but also over the past decade or so. I made my YouTube channel when I was nine years old. And I used to make Call of Duty videos.

Okay. I was like, "Decange, you're 23. Okay." I used to make these Call of Duty in Minecraft videos. Many young people have experiences where they would make like these gaming videos. And that kind of sprouted in me doing political videos when I graduated high school. I would go to Trump rallies and debate the supporters there. And now it's turned to this. Now I speak to some young male issues, political issues.

“So, where did you go to college? You went to college, correct?”

Yes. And in Indiana for one year, and then I dropped out after going to college for a year, just it was too much of a balance. Mark Zuckerberg.

Little Mark Zuckerberg asked. Something like that. Yeah. People always say Charlie Kirk is he dropped out

too when did politics, but I don't know. I think Zuckerberg. I like that a little bit more. Okay. What is that one? What is your hopes and dreams of what you want to make? I just want to make politics accessible for younger generation by, you know, using the vehicles to my advantage, such a short form content. Short form contents are really powerful vehicle for posting debate content in clips. And I just want to keep building my own show, my own

apparatus. I worked with my just touch for a while, and now I'm building my own sort of machine on my side. So my goal is to just keep scaling and expanding and making politics accessible. Right, because it's been a lot less expensive. I mean, I hate to tell you, but I happen to be the OG of this meant 10 a decade, two decades ago, really when we left the Wall Street Journal. And it's very exciting. It is, you know, one of the things a lot of people who are

doing this like you are always like, "Oh, should I leave?" I'm like, "Yes, it's such an interesting time to do this." I find independent media to be unique, and you probably found this as well, because you can build a quite nimble fast-paced team, and you can scale almost infinitely with content. Like, there's always another podcast to do or hit or appearance or interview, and then you can post it on Facebook, on threads, on YouTube. It's like, there's so much you can scale, and you

can have a really tight nimble team, as opposed to mainstream media, which there's like a few different conglomerates that own it. There's five layers of approval, if you were ever post anything. Yeah. It's a lot more nimble in this space. Yeah, I was, I always joke that I was a bad employee, and so I just left. So you're self-funded, correct?

So YouTube is your principle place to do this, correct?

“Yep. Is there anywhere, how do you look at that, how do you think about that?”

On my business model, I kind of look at it as a pyramid, where YouTube is my main priority, and then I trickle it down to Facebook, Spotify, and the organizations that are like audio, and then it trickles down to short-form content on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter, and all of those. So we're, and so you make most of your money on YouTube. It is television now. I tell this to people all the time. YouTube is television. It is. Not just for young people, by the way,

it's like three young people. I'm like, yeah, but it's not. It's interesting if you look at the change, there's more people watching my show on television now. You can see on the YouTube backend analytics, there's more people watching on their TV,

watch our eyes and on their phone. So it is the new television, and then I'm able to actually

go on TV and do these debates and combine it with my YouTube. Right. So it's an interesting model that we're building. One of the reason I'm having years, I see you're very clever. You do use television as a marketing tool, like, but how do you, where do you look at your audience? Obviously, you're probably very low-scuing demo. Oddly enough, Pivot has a very low age on compared to cable, where like, almost babies. It's interesting. I actually have a pretty

diverse audience age-wise. I've got a lot of people in the 40 to 68 range, and of course, a lot of

“people in the 18 to 34 age range on different platforms. I think there's a migration happening”

from places like MS now, or like some of the bigger networks to digital media. And you see that in my comment section. You see that from people that said they're disillusioned from mainstream media. Now, a lot of the big media organizations are using people online, online personalities in their shows, and it's becoming really symbiotic in a way. So I think the relationship will become more symbiotic. Like we said, independent media allows you to be so much more nimble with lower overhead.

I mean, I can have a scrappy team of five people who are fresh out of college, and we all are growing together while we invest a lot of our time into this ecosystem. So I think that I think that there's a lot of mileage for this independent media ecosystem. One of the big questions is during the next administration after Trump is gone. That's a spotlight. What kind of what's the attention economy going to look like? Like, I think everybody is asking the question

about the attention economy. And I think that, honestly, it's probably a good thing for politics to be boring. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing. But the way the environment works is going to be much different when there's not a clown cabinet in a constant train wreck to watch. You know? Yeah, Trump has said that. He said it in the years ago. I think Jeff Zucker even said it. Like, thank goodness for Trump is really it. He is people do like the show. Essentially, they like

this original show is it is getting a little tired and weird at this point. But one last question, what do you worry about? Like, what do you think you have missing? Or what do you worry about? What I'm worrying about a lot, like what I think about most of the time is longevity in the space, is building something that isn't just a quick blip that rises in the falls. I feel like there's so many examples. And I can't even pull them off the top of my head because they fall in of people

that have this infrastructure that they're reliant on. They're reliant on one single contractor, one single gig rather than building a long-term infrastructure around them that they can own and rely on. So I'm thinking about longevity. I mean, Bill Marr has had his show since like the late 90s. Like, hasn't he had a show since the early? He's had it for 20, 30 years at this point. Different shows, of course. Same thing with John Stewart. These people have long-gevity in the space.

“And that's what I'm trying to build towards a show or an infrastructure that I can own,”

rather than being reliant on the next book or hitting me up. Right. Absolutely. That's a really smart thing to think about. Are you worried about things like liable and stuff like that? Yeah. I have a lawyer and I we talk about it a lot. And sometimes with this political space, I have to either title things or use like outrageous sometimes titles and ways that I frame things. But at the end of the day, my reporting is pretty spot on. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I don't float conspiracy theories. I've reject a lot of the conspiracy theories that are out there. Anything about Trump's fake assassination attempts. I don't, I think they were real. I think assassination attempts were real. I think the elections have not been stolen. I'm not in the conspiracy theories. I'm not in the gossip or rumors. I'm generally pretty on point. Like, like, I made a video about Natalie Harp and I relied on Maggie Haberman's

reporting from the New York Times. Yeah. It doesn't worry me. It's rather well sourced. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And of course you still have to rely on reporters. But eventually you'll

get into reporting. Like, ultimately, that's where it goes. But we've got a lot to get to today.

So let's dig in. First, there's a growing concern about the 5,000 sailors aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier, which has now been deployed for more than 250 days. And it hasn't made a port called at least 200 days. Military families and lawmakers are sounding the alarm about food shortages contaminated water and mental health struggles. There's reports of multiple attempts by crew members to jump overboard. Defense Secretary Pete Hex has said concerned about

conditions on board. I've been completely misrepresented in acting Navy Secretary notes the Lincoln's deployment was extended because the mission demanded it. The ship will soon be replaced

Anne President Donald Trump. Let's hear what he said about the Lincoln.

Well, no, that ship is more than enough. That ship is moving right now. Well, very shortly. And it's being replaced with another very similar ship. No, no, no. Not dearly long enough.

“So that was something to say. I think the families are very upset. Now, the also George”

a Democratic John Ossuf this week had some thoughts on all of this and Trump in general. Let's listen to what he said at a rally on Sunday night. And while the sailors on the Lincoln fight his war, while he fruitlessly drains our munitions and oil reserves, the president sleeps through his meetings. He gulfs and trade stocks. So he doesn't want to do the job. He wants to build his ballroom and travel with Natalie on their apparently defenseless flying palace gifted by the

Amir of Qatar. I just want to explain to listeners Natalie's Natalie Harb Trump's personal aid also known as the human printer. She sort of his binky or comfort blanket as Maggie Haberman, you speaking, which recently put it. Natalie was even with him in the catering cart during his plane to coy operation last month. Talk a little bit about these stories. These are all like merging into one story. And also by the way, Maggie talked about the then secret service being

nervous about Natalie Harb and her love notes. She leaves for Trump all around his private spaces.

Talk a little bit about these stories. This is bizarre on all levels at home. Yeah, first of all,

John Ossuf did a really good job of weaving everything together there. He's a really talented communicator. Natalie Harb has been leaving a lot of these weird notes for Donald Trump saying, "You are all that matters to me." And she's inseparable from him. At a time when Melani is

“kind of been missing from all these public events. Honestly, putting that aside for one second,”

I just want to return to the USS Abraham Lincoln because this is wild to me. The war has been going on for 170 days. These sailors, many of whom were in their 20s, like early 20s, have been trapped there for hundreds and hundreds of days with the tier rating conditions. It reminds me a lot of the prior wars. When I was really, really young in the mid 2000s, the same leaders. Many of the same people would go on TV and say that this will make America more safe and protected in the long term.

And we had to watch as these wars turned into grinding counter insurgencies, whether it's a rock or Afghanistan. We were told that we were winning. They went out there and they said, "We're winning. We killed the bad guys." Adam Hussein's dead. Then it turned into a grinding counter insurgency that cost us trillions of dollars. We were seeing the same thing repeat. We have these leaders going out on television claiming that this war is being won, that their military is destroyed.

That's obviously not true. With the military were destroyed from Iran, then why is Trump still in danger? Why are Trump and Natalie Harp in this catering cart? Why is the straight-of-four moves closed? It's very clear that Iran still has a chokehold over the region. They still have

“enough of a military to close the straight-of-four moves. And it's not making us safer. I think”

there's a really strong parallel to be drawn. That a lot of millennials or a lot of people in my generation, especially people of your generation have seen play out over the years. Being in the Middle East doesn't just make us more safe because we're in the Middle East. We have to be getting political concessions from the country. So sorry, all of this is to say that we're not getting any political concessions out of this war. Trump is more focused on hanging out with Natalie Harp.

In Americans are struggling right now. It's bad. The USS Abraham Lincoln has 20 years. Do young people think about this ship and what's ahead? Did these stories break through? The war is absolutely breaking through. It's a pretty big promise that you can't ignore or avoid. It's a complete 180 from what he said on the campaign, which was no new wars. And that really bothers a lot of young people. You can see it in the way that it manifests on

like Joe Rogan's podcast or Theo von. Theo von's a comedian who's not even maga. People always

try to describe these beliefs. He's just a dude who kind of pays attention to the news when it's there. And when it comes to Iran, he keeps saying that this is a illegal war. It's a war of aggression that it's not right. Joe Rogan and his echoes similar thoughts about us being stuck. I think the broad populace of young people and these figures don't like the same war because of what I just said that the echoes of the prior wars in the mid 2000s.

Absolutely. One of the things that's really interesting is I've noticed both my sons very much focused on it. And there between your age, one is 21, one is 24. And this is at the top of mine for them. But this seems to have resonated in a way that a lot of news stories have been. I don't, I'm not, they're aware of the Natalie Harp of it all. But I think they were super offended by the way they talked about these families.

My dad was in the military and was in the Navy and I was offended for these families.

I think that he's kind of cornered right now. He's trapped himself and he's trying to negotiate

with the carrot. He's trying to entice them via negotiations and use the carrot. It's not working. And then he's trying to use the stick and bomb them over and over and that's not working. So he's cornered himself to a point where he's entirely trying to reject this idea that he's cornered. And it does break 30 young people. It's just such a brazen broken promise. I also want to point out, we're going to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on this. We

already spend $1 trillion per year on the interest of our national debt. Just to service our debt, we spend $1 trillion per year. It's one of the most expensive line items that we have in our country. Like my generation, your son's generation, we're going to have to bear the brunt of all

“visit debt that is accumulating right now. And again, I think the most defensive part is the way that”

Trump and the people around him are lying about it so brazenly. Acting like it's not existing,

trying to blind themselves. They have people like Caroline Levitt, even the Scott Jennings of it all going out there and trying to say that there's nothing wrong that we're winning this war. It's a really sickening lie. Is it out of touch? Is it an age thing? What do you have when you listen to them? Or is it just they just good at lying? They're just trying to tell the party line. You know how when we ask any Republican who won the 2020 election, they have

that line that they run. They're like, they're like, almost most of them that they're trying to be a common, a common member. Say this, they're like Joe Biden was certified. They have this weird way they go around it. I think they have to tell the party line and they have to hold faith in the Iran War. But one more time, it's sort of 170 days ago. What do they say four to six

weeks at the beginning of this? Yes, they did. And I was with actually a pretty prominent

Republican center because if this is more than two weeks, Kara, everything's fucked. And I was like, I just text them like it's more than two weeks. It's pretty bad now. Did you see the Christchristi clip where he said that Trump is going to be Jimmy Carter that you know Iran learned one lesson from the Jimmy Carter debacle that you can hold something hostage. And if you do it for long enough, it begins to look bad for the president every single day. Oh, it's his biggest favor. I was with a

pretty prominent foreign affairs. They were talking about the attempts by Iran to kill them and they're like, why would they? He's doing his good for them, like in terms of giving them a lot of cover and inability to just make exactly what you're talking about, Jimmy Carter. He's being Jimmy Carter. Does it doubly harp story? Get a lot of resonance. It seems a little period, but at the same time,

“it's weird. And she's right there. Make all the time. So does that matter to your listeners?”

Yeah, people find it very interesting. Combine with the fact that Melania is also gone. I mean, Melania is clearly not enjoying this. And I'm not going to speculate on what Trump and Natalie Harper doing, but Natalie Harper has been obsessed with him for years. I found this thread from decoding Fox News, a Twitter account. And they point out that Natalie Harper on OAN used to sign-off or show by quoting the Bible. And sometimes she would quote Trump in lieu of the Bible.

So she would either quote Trump or quote the Bible back in 2020, 2021. She's been obsessed with him for a while. And the more I cover it, the more people are rather interested in this weird, note passing that's happening back and forth. Apparently, the secret service, as you mentioned out, said this was sort of a security concern. There's a bunch of photos of Natalie Harper's smiling at him like that new movie obsession. You know, the new horror movie that's coming out.

She's standing in the corner like smiling at him. I swear, God, if you look at these photos. Explain a session. Explain a session. It's like a curse. It's like a horror movie where a guy wishes that his girlfriend has obsessed with him. And it turns into a curse where she's really creepily obsessed with him. That's Natalie Harper. Doesn't end well. That would be doesn't end well. Anyway, Adam, let's go on a quick break. We come back.

Press Secretary Karen Levitt steps down.

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helping teams move faster with greater precision and confidence. Harvey, AI tailored for law, learn more at harvey.ai. Adam, we're back at a more precise secretary, Carolyn Levitt as a recording. We don't know Trump announced last week that Levitt is stepping down at the end of the month to spend more

time with her family. She just had her second kid. Some of the rumor candidates replaced Levitt

include Trump's former personal lawyer, Alina Habo, who's with him had his dancing to YMCA club in New Jersey recently. His daughter-in-law Laira Trump and political commentator Scott Jennings, your best friend. I'll mention that after, but Scott was asked about this on CNN, let's listen to what he said. Scott, who should replace Carolyn Levitt? Obviously, she is stepping down and who do you think, who do you think, yeah? Well, first of all, he's going to have the ring

and will you serve Scott? Answer the question. No, look, answer the question. I don't know, but I'll tell you this, Carolyn Levitt has been maybe the greatest White House press secretary in the last 30 years at least. She's been nothing short of brilliant. She's done it while raising young family.

“I think it's great that she's going to go spend time with her family, but I don't know a single”

Republican in the country who isn't in all of an inter appreciation of of Carolyn tonight. So Godspeed on your journey back to your family. You've done it recently. Do you want the job or not? Let me help Scott. Democrats are afraid of Scott Jennings becoming priceless. I want to remind people before we get into a little history. Scott Jennings is so sweet. Let's listen to a clip. Scott Jennings is more than happy to defend a war with a country that starts with letters. I are a that we're currently

failing that is going to put his trillions and trillions of dollars more in debt. I was only a few years old while you were in the administration defending prior endless wars. Now this war is failing. Hey, I reach as endless. Okay, you said it was because that is six weeks. You have the attention span of a net, which I debated you on TV for the six weeks ago and you said we were weeks away from it. Now you're making condescending remarks because you can't defend the fact that

this war is not going your way. Wait one more time. One political session. Yeah, get your fucking hand in my so. Then the press secretary's job. Does it matter? One where the other groups got Jennings

“goes. There are any of these other names we've mentioned. I think that Scott Jennings would”

make a perfect press secretary from all of my past interactions with him. Unfortunately,

it's it's probably too much of a pay cut because he likes doing the media stuff where he's always

towing the line. But he's really built up a unique talent that I respect. In constantly grovelling a Donald Trump's feet, constantly making sure he's towing the party line and kind of pivoting around questions. Even in that clip that you just played right there, you see how he very quickly brushes off the actual question and goes in to trying to sane wash and white wash all of Caroline Levitt's history. If she was doing such a good job over the past 16 months, Donald

immigration domestically, immigration at the border, immigration overall with ice, the economy,

“everything. When it comes to Scott Jennings, I mean, I can explain how that clip came to be.”

It was the Iran war putting so much pressure on him. Let me reword that. Him putting pressure on himself. Bees he kept lying about the Iran war week after week after week and we blew through the timeline. I was sitting next to him on these panels and he was saying this was going to be a four to six week timeline, right? Four to six week war. We blew through that and then it was seven to eight weeks, the nine to ten weeks and we were 12 weeks in and I would

probably feel a lot of pressure too if I were the one who had to keep lying about this war. So as I point out, he'll lie about any war that starts with the letters I are a and I really do think he had cornered himself and felt the pressure in that moment. There's like there's something weirdly fragile and not masculine about constantly trying to dish it out and be condescending on these panels. But then the moment someone tries to reciprocate and at least like press

you on something, you freak the hell out. There's something really fragile and like hypocritical about that in my opinion. In that moment, what was, you handled it really rather well and you didn't have your hand as space. Let's be cool. That was so strange. I was like what are you talking about? Like, and he actually got physical. I've noticed a lot, it was interesting a lot of physicality when RFK interviewed Danabash was interviewed by Danabash. He got, he was moving

forward. It's very strange and weird and you're right. I wouldn't say non-mask on this done. It's something weird. It's something else. It's very strange. It's a very strange reaction to what I thought was a legitimate point you were making and you know you're very good at debate, so that probably you're irked him. You know, you probably are irked some to him in some way. The reality of it is, I had been on multiple panels with him in the weeks prior talking

about the Iran war in every single time. I don't play the game that he plays. Like he plays this game where he's able to lie and dodge and weave on the panel and then everyone kind of collectively moves on and it's fine. I get it. There's only so much time in the show. It's part of the show. But sometimes I'm like, wait a minute, I genuinely don't want to move on from this guy weaving around this right now. So I pressed him on it and I pressed him on it and he didn't have an answer. I

think that you could just admit the Iran war is failing and it would be much easier than blowing up and doing that to yourself. So him leaving to be press secretary thoughts? I don't know. I don't think it's going to happen. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he's probably floating his own name just to create the headlines in the show. No, I think he's being considered. I believe that to be true. I do think you're right. He likes media attention and money. I guess the question would be what's

“the upside versus downside. The downside is that you have to constantly be a part of these clips”

or the media are trying to pin you down and press you and we saw right there. He doesn't have the temper at this very moment. I don't know what's going on with me. He doesn't have the temper. On the other side of that, he probably takes a pay cut as well. So there's a lot of downside. What's the upside? Do you become like a figure and then usually you become a media figure after he's already a media figure? I don't see the calculation and become a press secretary.

Yeah, he doesn't want to go right to dancing with the stars like Sean Spicer. But one of the things that I'm like there's no plus to being on Nero's barge at the last part of it. That to me

and Scott is smart enough to do that. He's making more money for doing the same thing basically.

Right. And Alina Haba doesn't really have a lot of options. You know, in Lyra Trump just likes to be looking at me kind of stuff. So who would make a good one of these people? Is there another person you're not thinking? I'd have to think about it. I mean anyone in the Trump orbit who is well versed. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts like one of his ex lawyers like Alina Haba could work. I saw a clip of Natalie Harp when she was an OAN anchor. That would not work. She was not very

good. She was doing like a discount Tucker Carlson. Scott Jennings would be really good. But like I said, there's too much downside. I mean, good in like a infuriating way. Who do you think? Who do you

“think is on the top of the list? I think probably it's Alina Haba. She was sitting there kissing his”

ass. And you know, I just I think she doesn't have a lot of choices. And I don't think she's a lot of financial choices. She didn't get that drum. Do you think? It doesn't, doesn't matter. I mean, doesn't matter. I mean, Karen Levitt is good at it. Except you, I think you make the salient point.

His poles are going down. So it's not, she's not that good. Like ultimately, she's probably

she got a lot of pressure. Apparently she was yelled at quite a bit by him constantly. She was a little bit too obviously good at lying. It's like a bad episode of the boys. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where she goes. The reason they made her a senior advisor outside advisors is because of she gets protected in an executive. The way he said it, you know, they're all going to need. The other thing is Scott doesn't want to need a pardon, right? That's the problem. Like they all

are going to need a pardon. And I don't think you can get blanket pardon to that many people. Maybe you can. He probably could. I think there's a death. I think it hardly matters now after

Caroline got a lot of the right time. Yes, she really is. She's a very candy that way. So let's move to the Democrats. They've officially signed off on a new president of primary

calendar for 2028 South Carolina Nevada. Now first replacing Iowa and New Hampshire as the top two.

The change moves more racially diverse states to the front of the calendar. Dancing chair Ken Martin says the new calendar will battle test our nominee, putting them in the strongest possible position to win back the White House. Talk about the calendar. I've heard a lot about this in which candidates it helps and it hurts. It probably helps Kamala Harris in some ways and others. But talk a little bit about because she's a note and quantity down there. Talk a little bit

about this shift. Yeah, so obviously folks in Iowa will be disappointed. That was a huge state in the process for a while, even in the Obama race that Iowa was like a huge turn. So people there are going to be upset. I went to a lot of the Iowa primary rallies in the Iowa State Fair a few years back. I'll miss it myself. But for my understanding it's pretty simple. It's meant to empower and give more weight to black and Latino voters. There's a very big labor presence in the state of Nevada,

which will be one of the earliest states. And I think the Democratic Party is really trying to move in that direction. And overall, there's just a lot of distrust in the current establishment.

“You have to remember and of course you remember. I'm just saying you have to remember in 2020”

the Iowa caucuses didn't really go too smoothly and people to judge just campaign had a lot of problems. The app had a lot of problems. This comes at a time when you see the DNC, not bringing in a lot of money, which is interestingly because individual candidates are bringing in a lot of money. If you look at the DNC, it's really struggling as an apparatus. But people like James Talarico and John Osuff are out raising their opponent. I think James Talarico was raised $72 million

or something. So there is energy, but not for the establishment. If that makes sense. Yeah. And so who does this put in a position for the nominees? You rightfully pointed out that Kamala Harris will do well. Again, there's a strong labor presence in Nevada. So it might not be the candidates that people think. When I think of a strong labor presence and who people like that vote

for, it's not always inherently the more progressive candidate, which kind of breaks the archetype

of a lot of people think. So I could see Kamala doing well. I could see if somebody like John Osuff ran doing very, very well. I'm a big fan of him lately. You played that club of him. He's just so good at communicating with me. Yeah, hot plant. He's vehemently rejecting the idea that he's

“going to run is like a game. Do they just say they're not going to run? I don't know. I think he can't”

say anything because he's running for his office. Yeah. So if he's like, of course I am, then the citizens of Georgia are like, fuck you. Like, you know, he can't. He's got to be vehement. And then he's like, oh, as, as I began to hear people, I understood that my, my future has to be with help. Is that what he sounds like? Why does he? He's something like that. He doesn't have the head. This isn't these, these people wake up every morning and Scott says saying hello, Mr. President.

They just don't come on, like, stop it. But I, I don't know who would do well in Nevada. I mean, there, it'd be interesting if they see runs. There's all manner of people who have appealing in different states. I think it also goes to show where the Democratic Party is trying to move back to. We lost a lot of ground with the Latino vote in 2024, like a surprising amount of ground. And now it's immediately shifted back very much like a rubber band where Trump's ice

raids a key service. He sends ice, surgically and intentionally into these majority Latino communities in order to intimidate and terrorize them. And then wonders why Latino communities

“are moving far away from him again. So I think Democrats could really make a move,”

realign a lot of the demographics again. We just need to strong candidate. It's going to be a really interesting ideological primary. Yeah. All right, speaking of ideological before we get to 2020, we're going to get through the midterms in Michigan, Democrat Abdul El Sayed is trailing Republican Mike Rogers by four points in the first poll since the primary, although it's

up and down, like Pauli Market is a different thing. I don't always rely on them. By the way,

you've re-shared some polling numbers the other day on the Senate race and Kansas showing Democrat Adam Hamilton just one point behind Republican incumbent Roger Marshall, which is a big deal. And you said the blue wave is here, careful with the waves, as they say. So what's your latest prediction on the midterm Senate and House and how the Democratic anti-establishment aggressive movements factor in? A lot of my tweets are just formulated to be as simple as

possible, so it's usually why I am. I'm very reductive on Twitter, but- Yeah. Um, that's way to be. Listen, so I think that at the end of the day, people want change in the Democratic Party. It's that simple. Like Democratic voters aren't reading marks and turning far left. People want change. They don't want the establishment, and that's leading to more and more, um, you know, progressive candidates winning, that can use social media in a more savvy and

come to midterms. Call She and Pauli Market, like you said, it's not the best indicator,

but there's a lot of there's millions of dollars. I mean, it's bad. It's bad. It's bad sometimes. There's millions of dollars flowing into some of these markets. And right now, it seems like Democrats have a good shot at winning the House and the midterms and the Senate is up for grabs. I want to point out with the House. We're already at a five point inherent disadvantage due to the redistricting that Republicans did. This radical, mid-cycle redistricting put us at a five-point

“disadvantage. So we have to fight back there. But I think Democrats are in a really good position.”

If we have a lot of strong candidates, I'm not really trustworthy of the poll. I'm not trusting the polling right now nor the betting markets because they stepped up with Hong really badly. They stepped up with Abdul al-Sayad very, very badly. At the end of the day, Democrats are in a good position for the midterms. Democrats want change. And Abdul al-Sayad is a really strong candidate in my opinion. Like people keep saying that he's an example of these like the lefty progressive

DSA members, but he's not even DSA. He's a self-described free market guy who likes entrepreneurialism. He likes small businesses. I think there's a really strong accessible version of liberalism there. Well, he's interesting because there's two- I have a friend who's from Michigan and he said all his relatives and he's a progressive. He's a Democrat. He's a solid Democrat. He can't vote for him. Like, these are sort of suburban kind of people and they're going to vote

with their noses held for Rogers, which I cannot believe they would do that. I know, and I was, this is a long time Michigan there. And I was like, "Hi, interesting." Then again, my son who lives in Michigan and all his fraught girlfriends are voting for Al-Sayad and they did in the election over Haley Stevens. And more was the issue issues of the A-PAC was certainly an issue for them. There was a bunch of others and I'm like, "Which one is going to win here?" Like, it was

but they're very committed to him. And I wouldn't call my son even slightly liberal. He's just not.

“It's a really interesting thing. I think people don't know. It's a question of how well this guy”

can, because if he, if he chokes and doesn't win, he'll, and he costs the Senate by one sea, that'll make him sort of widely reviled. And if he does, then it's what? What does it say? Yeah, well, first of all, I think that there's still a few months left with the campaign.

And we just got out of a primary where there were $60 million spent against a dual,

like negative spending against his character and his past and his policy. So right now, microdgers on the other side didn't really have a very competitive primary where there were negative ads against him. I hope at this point, a lot of money begins to flow into the negative advertising against microdgers. And if dual L. Sayad is able to consolidate some of the base. But I've heard similar concerns out of people that are voting in Michigan. People are concern about

him. I hope that as the general goes on, he's able to make a stronger case, and able to continue to captivate Michigan voters. Right. They're sort of attacking him, the Trump terrorist commoners. Yeah, no, I mean, they're, they're overstepping. Listen, like a really hard,

divisive, democratic primary is always going to splinter part of the base. I'm sure people

got some crazy ads about a dual coming from Haley Stevens campaign, but now we're going to consolidate. Microdgers are going to have so many ads going against him. And this guy has got a wild pass that they're going to keep highlighting. If Abdul Wins, first of all, if Abdul Loses, it's going to brawl DBA review of not him personally, but this more progressive strand of politics. He's not

“even D.S.A. But he does represent a new wave of insurgent candidates. If he wins, I think it'll only”

further embolden that sort of movement. I personally hope it's not the D.S.A. taking over with their candidates. I hope it's a more progressive, pragmatic, liberal view of people who want to redistribute wealth. That's fine. The higher minimum wage and more healthcare is fine. I'm not for some of the more farther left D.S.A. idea. Well, he is not, as you point out, he's not the D.S.A. He's not either, yes. There's, there's been a call for him to not stick with the Hassan Piker,

another, you know, political pundit, who, by the way, may be suing Scott Jennings for defamation and correctly. So, because those clips were really a manipulative, I would say. He said a lot. He says, look, he's clearly narcissistic and says a lot of inflammatory things, but that he, he should go rep move forward with anything that he feels manipulated. But should Elsai separate from him? Listen, Hassan says things I disagree with too, but that Scott Jennings clip was over the

pale. It was like the most maliciously clipped-up series of events ever. Yeah, I went back and watched all the real thing, and I was like this. I mean, he's a reading comments out of chat or whatever, and then they're taking that out of contact. I think he didn't know. I think Piker said this, I think Scott was not aware of what Hassan was doing, which is- That's even worse in statement.

He's got to be more media savvy than that. It might, maybe if it's not malicious, then I'm not sure. By the way, it's Sayed. I miss pronounced for a second.

“But I think that when it comes to a soundpiker, a little dual, there doesn't need to be a disavowl,”

I think that's fruitless, and I think it's just conceding these right-wing frameworks. I genuinely think that Donald Trump surrounds himself with people that are just as radical as

Hassan Piker on a daily basis. The way that Steven Miller is always screaming and frothing at

the mouth on Fox News every single week. Donald Trump surrounds himself and campaigns with many extremist radical people. The Republican Party is like uniting around Max Miller after he allegedly broke his two-year-old collarbone. I'm not trying to compare any of that to Hassan Piker. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm just saying that the Republican Party holds themselves to one standard, and then holds a dual, so I add to this impossibly high,

guilt by association standard. No, we shouldn't disavow it. Keep campaigning, keep moving forward, keep laser-focused on mic Rogers. I'd say that's my framework.

“In any case, we'll see what happens. You feel like he could win if he got through to voters,”

and even with the attacks that are coming from the Republican. I'd like to think so. Yeah, I mean, listen, Michigan is a purple state. It's a swing state. And right now, he's a more progressive candidate than we've run in that state in a while.

Again, there was just $60 million of pretty negative spending directed at him. So now,

he has the chance to put mic Rogers on his back foot in spending against Rogers. It's definitely possible. The polling has been a bit misleading lately, but I guess the rebuttal to that is it's been it's been overestimating the progressive candidates. So we just have to see what happens. mic Rogers has some skeletons in his closet, so. Yeah, mostly. All right, Adam, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll present and Trump help the tape brothers.

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Meghan or Pino here, this week on why are you like this? I got to sit down with legendary Minnesota links coach Cheryl Reeve and Chicago during all star weekend. We get into her personal style of activism, how she supports her players as people, and why she proudly considers herself a diek. Then we learn if she's more of a mommy, daddy, or baby. Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This, wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.

Concerns about dark money in US politics date back years. At least to citizens united, the 2010 Supreme Court decision that removed barriers on corporate spending in elections.

During midterm cycles and presidential races, there's always grumbling about dark money.

And this year in Michigan, it's sometimes seemed like the whole race. The pro is real lobbying group APACs spent about 30 million dollars boosting the campaign of haily Stevens, her opponent Abdul Usiah drew attention to this again and again, and she lost. APAC is in a difficult position. It's support can now be a liability, and some people are questioning the way the organization disperses money. I'm going to sound crazy when I say this,

but Crush Magapac is affiliated with a different PAC called Saved Democracy, and Saved Democracy has received $100,000 from United Democracy Project, which is APAC Super PAC. So sometimes the layers here are two or three or even four PACs deep. On today explained, the backlash against APAC today explained drops every weekday. Add more back with more news, supporters of Andrew and Tristan Tate want them free.

Many gathered outside the Miami Federal Detention Center, chanting for the release and even doing group push-ups. The brothers have been in federal custody since July 18th, as they fight extradition in the UK, where they face charges, including rape and sex trafficking. Tate's attorney is said that if the judge doesn't agree that brothers are innocent, they will go straight to President Trump's office. What is the group's doing push-ups? I don't even begin to understand.

“But I actually don't want to understand. Will Trump end up intervening here?”

I don't think he'll intervene in this case because he already did in February of 2025, January February, and it didn't really go too well for them. I've been doing a lot of coverage on this, but back in 2025, early 2025, the Tate brothers are being invested by the UK and by Romania. There was a travel ban. They weren't allowed to leave Romania during this investigation. In members of the Trump administration specifically asked Romania to lift this

travel ban so the Tate brothers could leave during this investigation. Barron Trump is reportedly

of Tate's lawyers, and he now works in the Trump admin and has been lobbying for the Tate brothers

“to be freed for the investigation to be dropped. You might remember Paul and Gracia, from his”

leaked text about a year ago. He's the one that said he has a Nazi streak in him. So just some real great gems in the Trump administration advocating for some real great people. The Tate brothers,

they very insidiously would manipulate and abuse and basically traffic women who were in very

bad positions in their lives. But coerce them in the doing webcam modeling by acting like he was in love with them, then intensely intentionally isolating them from their family members and from their home town and making sure they had nowhere to go. And then this is an extensive law in order special distance union. It's wild. It's wild. And like they allegedly would skim 95% of the profits off the top and just pay the women nothing and then spread rumors about them and their

family and their hometown. So the women had nowhere to go. It was awful. Then he would go brag about this and poison the minds of young men in my generation. Sorry, that's a lot right there, but I'm passionate about this case right here. No, I know. I listen. My sons, both, we both had long discussions about antiquity. And initially it was attractive. It absolutely was to a lot of people. The, you know, the be your own man, that kind of stuff. But soon turn them off pretty quickly.

“But I remember early. I was like, I think these guys are really toxic pieces of shit, kids. But”

you watch them and you make your own decisions here. But this is my take as your mom. It's like attractive in the way that some of Nick Fuentes clips are attractive and I know that sounds controversial but like it's not like it's like a guilty pleasure for a lot of people. It's like I'm not supposed to be playing this video game. I'm not supposed to be playing this at midnight. It's even more fun. Like agreeing with Marjorie Taylor, green, you're like, exactly. It's still terrible. And then

there's some sort of a lower to it. But the reality is, Andrew Tate is somebody who is uniquely

awful because he's like living the worst stuff that he's speaking out loud. Some of these people are just fakers. They're playing. They're all playing. They're acting like they're these big tough guys who like do this. They don't actually do anything. Andrew and Tristan Tate built an empire based off of manipulating and allegedly trafficking women in multiple different countries. And now I have friends like reposting their reels because they're slightly funny or whatever. So what happens? Trump is

not good. There's no plus to do anything. So we might. Especially after the Epstein stuff. Yeah, it's like related to Epstein. Yeah, I mean, it's all related to each other. But my, I have, he might. That's my feeling. He could. So the Tate Brothers lawyer, Joe McBride, has been trying to get a hold of Trump or Marco Rubio because Marco Rubio is the one that's in charge of extraditions. Marco Rubio said he wants nothing to do with it. But at the end of the day,

I don't know. I think the Donald Trump did it in first time and it attempt to court these younger male voters. Andrew Tate, in Tristan Tate's lawyer, has been saying that if Trump doesn't

allow them to be released, he's going to tell all their young fans never to vote for Republicans

again. So they're kind of like dangling it as leverage over Trump and the Republican Party. I think he would have to be pretty dumb to do it. Like after all the Epstein saga, this would be very bad PR. But he does stuff like that all the time. Then Scott Jennings asked to defend it. Imagine that. Yeah, I know. Even he did not defend Tate. I don't ever call him. No, he didn't. No, I'm saying imagine he's the press. No, I can't. All right, Adam, one more

quick wake when we back from wins and fails. Retailers want you to believe September is a

“fresh start that comes with a brand new shopping list, but the only thing back to school season”

really refreshes is their profits. I'm Vivian 2, Yoritch BFF, and on this episode of Not Worth and Chill, we're breaking down how to save big this fall. Scoring tech for a fraction of the price with trade-in and refurbished deals, the college money hacks that keep you from ever paying full price for a textbook again and the parent tested strategies to outsmart every retailer trying to cash in on your kids. Everything from 5 to 9 accounts to student discounts,

you can maybe milk a little longer than you should. We've got you covered. Ready to hit this school year with a fuller bank account and zero buyers remorse? Listen wherever you get your podcast or watch on youtube.com/yourrichbff. Okay, Adam, let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you go first? Okay, so I'll start with the fail. I did a seven-day trip to a few different cities,

multiple different hotels, and I lost my car keys at some point, and that seven-day trip, and I flew back to a hair airport, and my car was stuck in the parking garage, no keys, nothing really bad situation. Really bad situation to be in. I'm only human, and yes, I am lucky young. I'm in early 20s. I'm just like your son. I can be a loof. I can be a loof. The win is that we've just been hiring and training our new assistant over the past month,

and I asked him if he could do a favor for me, so he drove to a hair airport, found a locksmith,

Yeah, what kind of car do you have, Adam? It's a viewic, yes. You know,

some of these cars you can open with an app, but maybe I might help you as it is. Really? Yes,

“when I lose my keys or leave them in the car, you can open them with an app. I believe you.”

All new cars you can do that with. That's actually a really good. That's a really good tip. Did your son teach you that? No, I taught you kidding. I don't need help with tech, my friend. I just, I teach my son that. No, my son dropped his credit card out of his pocket when he was ice-climbing. I could have killed him and went down to the canyon, and I fed her a place so many credit cards from my son who dropped credit cards. I'm not giving him anymore. I'm like,

get it on your phone, and that's it. No, I dropped him too. They make him too easy to replace.

It almost feels like it's not very good. You can get into houses. You don't need keys anymore.

Let's hear your win fail. My, my fail today is Jason R. Day, and actually I'm going to link it with Hayden Penetir. I think she's, let me start with her backwards. She's just died. She's 36 years old. Wonderful actor. Just a lovely presence. She wrote a memoir recently. She very clear showing her struggles with postpartum depression, drinking, etc. There was sort of this heinous new Trajina dumpter for talking about that. It's such a sad situation. We don't know what happened to her, but it could be problematic.

Let's just say, and it's just sad. And one of the things she talked about was the relentless attacks of the media on her as a young woman, and she couldn't believe how much she'd been attacked and as a, as a, you know, an attractive young woman, and talked about it. And if told it took on her, and I get celebrities not easy, but it was really, she did in a way that was really ugly and was not unable to sustain it in a lot of ways and it affected her. I'll connect this with Jason R. Day,

who was the youngest black professor at Cambridge in the UK, and he was found dead late last week. And he, he was under a lot of pressure because of plagiarism allegations. But the pile on, and we can debate all the nuances of very good dynamics through the debates and nuances of maybe he was doing things taking shortcuts. At this point, I don't really care because there's a lot of white academics who get out very easily compared to this guy, the attention that this guy

got was so out of, out of size in Britain, the attacks on this guy were so oversized of his alleged crime of plagiarism and some other falsehoods that he might have told. It doesn't mean you don't care about those things and accountability and academia, et cetera, et cetera. But the overwhelming ability of social media and the press, in this case, I blame the media for both of these of just

“not knowing when to stop with this kind of stuff is really disturbing. And I think we all participate”

in it. But the ugliness that you see here, especially with both of them, and Jason moment recently, is really quite something has to shift in the way we cover things. I doubt it will. It's been going on forever when there are tabloids that have been here for a long time, but it's gotten amplified and amplified in a way that's gross in everyone who was a part of this should feel some regret and responsibility. I'm not sure they will. I feel there are families. It's just so unnecessary

what's happened in these cases that contribute this kind of thing. I'm going to do an opposite when that's as different. I've been watching the D23 stuff. I don't know if you are a child of Disney, but I have two younger kids too. Watch Disney. My older kids watch Disney. And they're doing

this amazing gathering of all these different Disney products. And I have to say it's the most

entertaining thing. And it's not just a showcase for their talent, but it's very beautiful. And whether it's Anne Hathaway, giving a wonderful speech about her career. And I know I'm being manipulated or there was this incredible song by Lynn Manuel Miranda. We sung to a song from the little mermaid about his career because he was inspired by the little mermaid and Howard Ashman and others. And I have to say it was just wonderful. And this is when I love celebrity. And I love

that kind of thing. You see someone like Anne Hathaway who's grown up also in the public eye who's done, who's thrived and Hayden who did not. It's really, it's a really interesting week for that, both incredibly talented, by the way. So those are my wins and fails. There you would, we would Disney child Adam. Yeah. Yeah. I like Disney a lot. There was this movie named both about this dog. You love that movie. Do you remember both? I remember

watching them. I have four children. I know all of them. Okay. So you watch it a lot. Yeah. And then a lot of the D23 stuff even excites me. They're doing all these like new casting announcements on stage, where they're talking about this is the new X-Men. Yeah. It's great. I like a lot of

“that stuff. Is there an X-Men you object to? I think people kind of like the X-Men choices.”

No. No. I think it's good so far. I really liked it. I really liked the cast. I like Sadie Singh.

No. I'm going to. I'm about to. I'm going to see it this week. My girlfriend refuses to watch the

original Toby McWire movie, because she says they're too corny and old and I'm like, do you know I grew up on those? How do I convince her to watch those? Oh, she's I'm sorry. She has to watch and I don't wonder. Are you seeing the new one with your kids? I might one son is living in San Francisco and he's not a Spider-Man fan. And the others in China hiking right now. So he's not going to be able to do it. The younger ones are too young to watch Spider-Man. They're not ready for it yet. They're

four and six. And so they are still on in the they went to see Paw Patrol dying. Okay. I lent which I'm so glad I didn't have to see Paw Patrol, which I call Copaganda, is they just make a mess. The

Paw Patrol people make a mess and then cleaned it up and declared themselves heroes. I hate them.

I hate them. Paw Patrol's Copaganda. Copaganda. Copaganda. The cute little puppies. They're Copaganda. I like cops, but me and they don't need more shows celebrating them.

“And not little animals that destroy things. I like me. I'm for mayor, what's his name?”

Paw Patrol mayor. Paw Patrol mayor is mayor. I'm Dinger. I'm Dinger. Yes. But yes, thank you for telling me that he is so bad. And I'm with I'm with Humbinger on all things. We'll move on from that. Anyhow, I will go see Spider-Man this week. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nmymag.com/pivot to submit a

question for the show or call 8555-1-Pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week on

on. I talked to author Ryan Holliday, who's been popularizing the philosophy of stoicism through his books and his podcasts. I'm really a fan of his. And he used to have a lot of high profile fans in Silicon Valley tech. But many of them have turned on him as they've turned toward President Trump. Also because he's pointing out the things they're using from stoicism. They prefer completely, which is why I love Ryan. Let's listen to a clip. It's been weird. I don't feel

like I've changed that much. And it's been interesting to watch people radicalize. I talked about this in the book I did on wisdom like watching Elon Musk go from reading Soviet rocket manuals to like getting all his news from from social media. You realize just how easily smart people can fry their brains. And I think that's kind of the main problem of our time is like how to avoid

“getting brain fuck. Yeah, do you think that Adam? That's how you feel. It's actually very, very”

well said. I've actually wondered a lot throughout the past few years how Elon Musk and Simon willaneously be somebody who seems rather clever at times and can build and higher and push humanity in a visionary direction. But then also it's such a my new level. It caught up in these weird lies about like black crime statistics and trans statistics. How can you simultaneously be caught up in both of those? Wow, this is your brain on drugs. I don't know allegedly.

You know, it's more than that. He really was really an interesting character and not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But what's happened to him has been really disciplined for those of us who know him pretty well. The shift has been dramatic and disturbing and multifaceted. And it's a waste. It's an enormous waste. He's a little bit like Howard Hughes or Henry Ford, you know, this happens. Yes. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to

like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday with another special guest host.

“Adam, I'm a real fan. You're doing an amazing job. I think you're going to have a longevity.”

Let me say the way you're talking about your business is really smart and just keep changing. I would say, just keep changing and shifting and I'm sure you'll be around for a long time. Thank you. You and Scott are a huge inspiration. Thank you for having me on and I'm sure we'll cross paths again soon. Absolutely. Thanks, Adam. Today's show was produced by Laira Neiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Weisman, Ernie Andrew dot engineer this episode.

Nishat Kerwit is Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.