Hayley Kiyoko’s Plus One and her Accountability Coach

In the middle of the night, Sasuke awoke in a haze.

Her husband Mike was on his laptop.

“What was on his screen would change Sasuke's life forever?”

I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband.

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I'll have you know that I actually was going to put on my black owl. So it's this morning. Like I had them like pulled out, ready to go, and I was like, "We're in the middle of a heat wave." Yeah, we are. I know if I show up in the podcast with my black sweat set, not going to be well-received.

So I changed. I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Really? You've done it before. You've had a puffer on it in this heat wave.

Hopefully I would have said something. Yeah, I think the puffer era is over.

“I think I've retired it forever for the year.”

For the year, I haven't worn it once this year, and now that it's 90 degrees, I think. You can let it go for now. Yeah. Stay in the closet. All right.

Stay tuned for an update on that. 2020. 2020. We're having an exclusive. Yeah, we aren't a heat wave.

I love it personally, but. That's great. Yeah. It's just, you know, but you don't like it, no. Well, the 90s.

90s. Yeah, yeah. But if I had to choose between freezing cold and 90s and sunny, I'm choosing 90s and sunny. In March, you would, yeah, in March, yeah. I do wish there was a little transition from into spring, spring to summer, but we just

jump straight to summer, which is fine. You know, we're in Southern California, which makes me worried for the summer. A little worried for the summer time. There's no need to worry. Bury is just wasted time.

I hate that the truth. It is. I'm really trying to be more like present. Oh, that's beautiful. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life.

Yeah. So we're, I'm doing that with Hayley right now, too. Being present? Well, day my day. Her, her needing to be present.

You're right. So your, your present is present. One thing about me is I'm right. I might be living in the past actually. I'm so present.

That's your name. That's the one thing you're not as future thinking. I'm delayed if anything. Yeah. So my, aren't you as healthy?

And I agree. Yeah. My cortisol levels are perfectly, potentially low. In fact, today I've walked in and we had moved to the podcast from 12 to 1215.

I walked in to the studio empty, just me.

First time it's ever happened.

And it said 12, I watched the clock turn to 12, 16. And I was still alone. And I said, well, I have to bring it up. And I documented it. So proof.

So you got here at 12, 15.

Earlier, when the 12, 14 is when I arrived. Actually, I dropped the BF at the groomer. And it was a faster process than I thought. So I got here so early that I pulled off on the side of the road, to scroll, and scroll the world.

I had a little scroll session. Wow. Yeah. I do apologize. I apologize.

Why did you?

“How did you know that I scrolled, but such a specific choice to make?”

And I thought it was so weird. Because I was early to my acupuncture appointment. I sat in the parking lot and scrolled. That's so funny. Because I know they don't take me early.

They take me like right on the nose. Right. So I either just sit up there and I can't scroll because it needs to be quiet or I sit in my car. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So anyways, yeah. I scrolled. Yeah.

Wow.

Well, I knew I was going to be late.

Normally we started new and I knew I was going to be late because I had to go to the acupuncture. It was an emergency. And that was the only time it could squeeze me. And so I, I knew it was going to take me 15 minutes for the drive.

And I usually am out by 11. 50. I wasn't out quite till noon. So I really cut it tight there. So Tanya sends a text and it's like, can we move the podcast at 12 15?

I'm like, why say anything? Like that's not literally my normal time. And now you're potentially pushing me back into other 10 minutes. Because I didn't want to on the off chance that you've got here at noon, make you wait 15 minutes for me.

That's what you know you'd hear about. It was a really a double edged sword. It felt nasty to not say to not ask because I knew I wasn't going to be here at noon. People do that to me. They told me, and yeah, they just, they don't tell me the right time so that I show up

on time. Dang. And that's something I need to look inward about. You know, did you watch the Oscars last night? I did not watch the Oscars last night.

I mean, that's fine. It was I would say what I saw of it was not that newsworthy. I just for some reason this award season was not into the movies.

“Like, I think I like the Golden Globes and the Grammys claim until like music and television.”

But movies, I'm realizing, and maybe it's my attention span. Yeah. And they're all so freaking long. Like two and a half hours, three and a half hours, my gosh, golly. You know what?

I've noticed is like, you can tell when a movie is made for the potential of getting an Oscar knob. Yeah. Unfortunately, just a little too over my head, or deeper series or artists. Like, my favorite movie is, uh, how to lose the guy I'm ten days.

And he's just not that in to you. So what am I doing? Watching Bagonia. You know what I mean? I mean, Bagonia was good.

No. I heard it too. But like, it's very good. Who am I to watch if I have likes, I kick you. You know, like, it's just, I think my palette is just a little bit different.

Just simple. Just simple for these intellects. Yeah. I'm watching extract on Netflix. Okay.

That's just called a space space. Uh, yeah, we're watching age of attraction just so you know where to come in on. Yeah. I mean, Haley is a lot more like she's a cinema, cinema, cinema, cinema, oh, cinema. Yeah.

Is that someone who likes to watch movies? Yeah. Yeah. It's not someone who wants to have sex with me. He's in case you're wondering.

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds a little provocative. It's a little provocative. It's a little provocative.

It's a little provocative. It's a little provocative. It's a little provocative. Yeah. We went to after parties, but we don't.

We watched the Oscars at home. Oh, oh.

“But they do have the Elton John view of your party, but what do you want to know?”

We went to the after party, so we went to the Elton John after party and then we went to the focus features after parties. So the Oscars were a 5 p.m. You walked her. Oh, I know.

We thought they started at 5, but we turned it on and it was already going. Okay. So you like loosely watched the Oscars. Yeah. And then what time did you leave the house to go out?

Like 8, 20. You know Becca's gotten big time when I had to find out she went to after Oscar parties on Instagram this morning. Yeah. I don't know.

I did it. I didn't know there was something you care about. You didn't even watch the Oscars. I know it's in the biggest night in Hollywood. Like if you're rubbing elbows with dual-leap and calum turner and I was rubbing, we packed

with each other in the hall. I'd like to know. I'd like to follow your location and be on the inside. Well, one thing about Haley and I is we, like, well plan to go. To go to something and then plan our getting ready process and think that we'll have plenty

of time to get photos and content and everything. And we never do.

It's always absolute chaos trying to get us out of the house.

We have no time for pictures. So we were rushing to get to the Elton John after party to take photos on the carpet and stuff. And then we were walking down the hallway and do a leap in calum turner. Calum turner.

What's the leap? Calum turner. Oh. Oh my. Oh yeah, calum turner.

Who are you thinking of? Yeah. We passed him in the hall. It makes that.

We passed him in the hall. And I was like, oh my god. There's dual.

Because the Elton John after party, I always think of it as, like, people like me, like

influencers and like people who, uh, like, I didn't expect to do a little bit of class. I didn't, yeah. I didn't expect to see, like, a list. No. I feel like the Elton John after party is like, anything I get invited to, I think.

I think. You know what I mean? Yeah. Makes winging. Makes winging.

Dicks. Oh. Isn't that the charm? Yeah.

“That's what you think about the Elton John after party.”

Is that not, like, it's like, like, the heavy hitters.

Yeah. No. Yeah. But I guess in my mind, I think anything I get invited to, I'm like, I, I expect to see, you know, not ALICE.

But I got a breeze shift in my mind because, like, now I'm Haley's plus one, and Haley is a feature film director. Yeah. She's a cinema file. And then we went to the focus features after party.

And that one was, like, intimate and, like, elevated, like sophisticated chic. Like, how long were you at the Elton John one? Thirty minutes. Oh, my God. Okay.

So then you went to the other one, the focus features, and you're there for how long? Like an hour. We literally were home before midnight. It was amazing. It was perfect.

Okay. Who was at the focus features?

“Um, and the stone, Gracie, A-Rubs, well, that's how,”

- Wow. - Mascale, Mascale. - It's like the drink, Mascale. - Mascale. - Mascale. - Mascale. - Stephen Spielberg. - Yeah. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her.

- She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - She didn't take a look at her. - They were like, "They were like, "We don't want anyone."

And I said, sometimes I thought that the people that were working the event were like security, and then there was this one section that we were like, "There's a seat. Can we go sit in there?" And she's like, "Oh yeah, sure." Like, I think we were thinking, "Oh, are we allowed to sit here but everyone who was invited to that party was a lot to sit there?" - Whatever. - Um, so you know Stephen Spielberg and Counter? - No. - She was allowed to look at her.

- Yeah. Well, I was like, I was gonna say Jessica, Cap Show was on our podcast. Even better, I know. I know it next time. And yeah, it was like really, really cool. I knew it was so fun because I was obviously Haley's plus one and so she's so real. - Well, she's talking to all the focus features people and they're so excited about her movie coming out and then she's like, "My fiance back in." And then they're raving about the movie to me and I'm like, "This is so cool that I get to be on her arm."

- Yeah. - As an introduce as a fiance to a feature film director. - Yeah. - Seven of the files. - Seven of the files. - I sent a file. - Then that file. - Why don't I keep saying "Sin of the file"? - I don't know, it's just rolling off the dumb, but it's not right. - I feel good. - Yeah.

So it was really fun. And then, did you talk to any one? Did you talk to Emma Stone? - No, like, okay, so just for the people who have not been to one of these parties. - Yeah, set the scene. - Yeah. So the Elton John Party is more everyone's walking around. There's like several rooms. It's a huge event. So like, you walk and then there's a photo booth room and then there's a bar room and then there's another bar room.

Like, it's very social. There's a dance floor and it's more like, you're kind of mingling up and about.

The one that we went to for, which that was my first time going to one that was like elevated to like, intimate like that.

- Yeah. - It's people sitting in its dark and it's, you know, people are just talking with their peers and it's not a space where you want to go up and be like, "Hi, I'm such a big fan of you." Like, it's almost like a safe space. - Yes, of course. - So, I, especially was super cognizant of that and aware. - No, but you could still not be like fan-girl and still like have a chat. - Yeah, but if they're like in the middle of a conversation with their friends,

I'm not going to go up and be like, "Hi." You know, it's just not, it really isn't that beautiful. - Hey Steve, you did excited for the best of it next week? - Yeah, it's like what do you say? - It's like, got up and walked out and like had gone to the bar and passed us, maybe in that moment. - Do what I can do. - Do what I can do, I'm not. - No, do what was surrounded by her team and they were in a rush going somewhere. - So, I do. - So, I do. - I do go into the vanity fair party.

- Ah, yeah. - Yeah. - So, they were like, they're on the go and I was just like, "Oh my god, do I leap up?" - You know, when you like, that sound the effects one traffic goes by and you're like, "Shoot!"

“- Yeah, that's what it was like, but we're like, "Oh, do I leap up?"”

- Okay, something the focus feature is party, was it like, was it like sectioned off tables? - No, oh yeah, I mean, but they weren't like sectioned off, like anyone could sit anywhere. - They were like booths. - It was at a bar. - Which bar? - Bar, more, more, more, more, more, more. Like next to Shatoma. - Oh, okay. - But it was very chic and it was really cool just like being in a room with those people.

I mean, it's just like, "I'm like, "Hey, these are your peers now." Like you and Steven Spielberg are peeing. - Yeah. - You both are peeing. - They decided to feature a focus feature film. - Yeah, so it was really cool. - Wow.

- I had one drink, french fries, time for bed, they had an in-out truck outside. - Ooh. - I began to... - Oh. - Yeah, I had heavy hands on the shoulder. - I know, I was like same, same page. - Yeah, same. - So yeah, it was really cool and I can't believe I get to, someone DM me and they're like, "Sorry, if I just sound rude,

"but like, why do you go to these? You're not an actress?"

- I'm like, "Okay, first of all, first of all." - Right.

- Plus one to a director. - Yeah.

“- And second of all, I got invited. - What have I said to say?”

- Like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not an actor." - Sorry, I was on reality show. I really shouldn't really think, "Oh, my God." - Andrea is going to the Vanity Fair Oscar party. She was on Love Island, okay? Back at TV from the beach, Laura can go to whatever she wants.

- No, honestly, a lot, Andrea really is crushing. - She's at everything. - Yeah. - Like high level. - So I don't agree. - I don't agree. I don't know who she teamed up with after Love Island, but it her PR or whatever. - Yeah. - What's she doing?

- I think she's still with Nicholas? - Yeah.

- Wow. - And I don't know if I remember it.

- You're whatever, but it proved to me wrong, that's for sure. - Yeah, I'm not the either of you care, but the winners of Love Island, you can all stars already broke up. It's been three weeks. I'm like, "Oh, my God."

“- I know that all stars get to bad rap that they're going on just for”

Cloud, so like, knowing that. - Sure. - Poor, like, yeah, you're all saying it. - They get for like a little bit. - I feel like it's like, I have all been milked in my fridge longer than that. - And that's saying something. - Yeah.

- I would say if I went on a show like that, and I ended up with someone, unless they were just like, the worst person ever, and I didn't want to be associated with them after the fact, I would go at least six months. - Yeah, give the people what they want.

- And I would do stage paparazzi shot. - Excellent. Give me some TikTok dances. Feed me. - Yeah. - Okay. - It is a fan. - Yeah. - Feed me. - Yeah. - I feel slapped in the face,

because I went to bat for Sammy all season, and now I'm just like, "Looks like I was wrong." She did it for the followers. - Shoot. - Yeah, I would jump, jump. - You ate it up. - Yeah, she didn't have to feed you, because you ate it up.

- Yeah, I was fed less, and I was full. - Yeah. - Can we point out that Tanya did a backwards elephant jump? - I don't know, I don't know. - It's actually though, is that mirrored, because it might actually translate. - I don't think it's mirrored.

- I'm not sure. - I'm not sure. So anyway, it's side-track. Something else really funny happened between Tanya and Haley, and I wanted to talk about it, but we're going to take a break. - What happened? - Day two. - Yes, she did.

- In the middle of the night, Sasuke awoke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. I was on his screen, would change Sasuke's life forever. - I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing, and immediately the mask came off.

- You're supposed to be safe. That's your home.

“That's your husband. - So keep this secret for so many years.”

He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. - You're a dangerous person who prays on a vulnerable and trusting people.

You're a father that never make a love and good.

- Listen to betrayal season five on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We now a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast between us,

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- Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield, from the Girl Friends. The number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the center of their own stories. I'm back with more one-off interviews with some truly kick-ass women on the Girl Friends spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia. - I'm going to climb this. And then there's Versaqa.

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- There's a photo finish. I don't know who got that for you. - Um, okay. So when we went to the Bahamas, Tania and Haley was just no idea what you're about to say, and it's kind of thrilling. Haley was telling, you know, Haley and Tania were chatting and I loved that trip, by the way. - I looked back on it was such bond of memory. - So much fun.

- That's so nice. I did too. - It was a flash in the pan. - It was a fast and furious. - It was fast and furious. - Yeah. But Tania and Haley were discussing just like diets and Haley's like allergies and whatnot. And she was just saying, Haley was just saying, "Oh, I just don't feel great." I just want like my body to feel better and whatever.

So Tania goes, "I promise you, if you cut out processed sugar and gluten, I feel like you'd notice a significant difference." So Haley-- - This is spoiler alert. I'm no nutritionist. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not giving likes.

“- I'm not giving likes. - This is very, I think if people cut out processed sugar,”

that's a good advice. - This was just like your prior experience from my previous experience and how it made me feel. So I wasn't like, "No, no, Haley, I think was asking because you have allergies and you are very focused on your health and exercise." So she was like, "What do you do when you want to feel better?" And Tania said, "Well, I cut out processed sugar and I can't handle gluten."

So I cut that out. And Haley was like, "Yeah, I actually do feel better when I don't eat bread, so that makes sense. I'm going to try and Tania goes, "Well, do you want me to be your accountability coach?" And I'll just like, check in and encourage you. Mind you, Tania has tried to be my accountability coach so many times and it's just she could look at that bread. It's not that well. - It's more than usual.

Like, I cannot, I realize and it's something I need to work on myself. I cannot be held accountable. So, um, but Haley was like, "I love that." So, Tania starts off and she starts sending Haley to Mars the day. You're strong. You can do it. You're going to feel so much better. Get to the first day and the next day is going to be easier. Like, great Oprah. It's Oprah. And Haley is like, "Wow, Tania really texts a lot when she's doing

“this like coaching at first." And I go, "Yeah, that's why I, I was just like, I can't. This isn't for me."”

And she goes, "I, I, I feel like it. I kind of like it." So, they go for like a week or two. Yeah, no, like a week. - A week. - And do I PTSD from Becca and the way she handled me as a coach? So, I'm trying lightly with Haley. Like, I'm like, I want to like help her and like be there for her, but I also like don't want to overstep and like, because I feel like the minute you get turned off with me with that, like, you're done. So, I'm like, I need to, I'm just like,

I'm going to get her to the first week and then let the butterfly fly.

Yeah, so Haley's loving it. She's like, Tania's amazing at this. Like, she could do this as a career.

And then last week. - Oh, no. - Which I guess is me too.

Me because, haven't heard from Tania. And she goes, it's like, I slipped off the bandwagon. Told her I had a chocolate-covered strawberry. And now she hasn't texted me. And I was like, wait, what? Like, she, what she mad when you told her she had a chocolate-covered strawberry.

“She goes, "No, she just said, it's okay. Like, you'll start again tomorrow." You know?”

But I haven't heard anything. And I kind of missed it. And I said, "I texted Tania and I'm like, what the heck?" Like, Haley's missing her text. What kind of coach are you? One weekend and you're done? - Do you need accountability? - Yeah. No. To be fair, I should have, like, I should have had the conversation with Haley

beforehand. Like, how long does she want me to do it? Like, is she liking what's happening?

Like, I didn't want it. I just, like, I have a little PTSD from doing it with Becca. It's feeling like you're blaming me for your, you dropping the ball. - No. - What does it quite fair? Because I'm not dropping ball. I said she's liking this. She says you're really good at it. So I gave you the indication that she was enjoying it. I wasn't saying, like, Haley is too, because I could feel like she was,

like, proud of herself. - Yeah. She thrives on whatever that is. - Yeah. - I could tell. I could tell. - I could tell. - So anyways, I had to text Haley and be like, okay, like, pick it back up. And Haley goes, even if she just wants to text me at the beginning of a week and then the end of the week. - Oh, no, no, no. That's not how we roll. - What do you mean? You're just, you're just like, oh, yeah. - So that, an ideal rhythm is daily.

- Daily. - Like, once a day or what will happen? - I think it's just trying to do morning and night. - That's good. - Like, really. Hammer in the, the hope in the top.

“- And then close it with some encouragement at the end of the day. - That's how I roll.”

- You don't have to give away a trade secret here, but how often do you do in, like, scheduled text? - Zero. - Zero? - It's all live in the moment. - I didn't know you could do scheduled text until recently. - Yeah. - I just had to. - I just had to use myself recently. - Yeah, I think it's a new feature, because I didn't know this until, like, last week. But now that I do, that's not, every night at APM. - Haley texts, sorry, I had a really rough day. I don't want to knock you out as you can. Great job, Haley.

- Let's do it again tomorrow. - Gets them good sleep. - Yeah, but she's been really good. - Yeah. - And it's even mad about, I was like, chocolate of strawberries, fine fruit, gorgeous. - No, I shouldn't know. - She didn't know if you were, if you were fine with it. - That's funny. - Yeah. - She thought I was mad. - She thought she was sad, disappointed. So, we'll now go back on. And it really feels good that Haley appreciates it. I think I thrive in it too,

“because it like, I don't know, encouraging somebody else also encourages you in a way.”

- What's like you're holding your own self accountable, because if you're sending these words and things, it's like, what about me? Am I, am I being a good example for this person? - Right. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Well, I was saying that to not as I do. That's all that text for yesterday, 'cause I knew I was going for my dipped cone. I read scheduled it the week before. - Oh, the dipped cone. - Yeah. So, I like projected on to her in the morning and I was like,

it's going to be really hot out today. - Maybe it's juice whiny. - Yeah, so that was really funny, but I was like, y'all need to figure this out. I can't be the middle man here.

- Yeah. - First of all, when they started, Tanya had me in the chat with Haley and was like,

"Sitting the message, I'm like, no, no, no. I did not want this. I have opted out and this is your thing together. A lot of people were moved myself." - Indeed, it is our thing together. - Yes. - We'll ride it out. We'll ride 'til dawn. - Yeah. Well, until you're unresponsive. - Which is what happened? - Yeah. I'm going to have to pre-schedule some text this weekend. I'm going to learn how to do that. - Oh, for the good you're going to be going to be calling, yeah.

- I can't be like, "Oh, yeah, how was your one-year anniversary?" - Oh, Mary! - It was good. - What you'll do. - We're really celebrating this weekend. We're going to go to Cobbo for the weekend, and then last weekend, we kind of celebrate our family birthday. So we went out to dinner with the kids and kind of like, had like a candle and then it's really, and I'll talk to my birthday. - Yeah, talk about our favorite moments and memories from the wedding and like, it's so cute to hear your

stepkids like, just really enjoy your wedding as much as you did. You know what I mean? Like, he was like, "My favorite part was getting there and my worst part was leaving. I loved everything about it." And like, I don't know. I know. It was really sweet. And so that's kind of what we did the night of our anniversary. He like got me flowers. We both did paper as our gift. So I gave him

which he really loved. And he's going to like put the that piece up in his office. And then he said his is taking a little bit longer and it wasn't ready either. So I don't know what it is. - Y'all both commission the same piece of art for the same word is? - Yeah, I actually know it. Because I obviously told him what mine was because it was like this is just like the teaser part of it. But I have no idea what he got me. - You think he's, but he said it's in the paper realm.

- Well, I message him and it was like the day before because I forgot and I was like, "Hey,

“FYI, the first anniversary is paper." So the very least you need to have a nice card. And he goes,”

like, like, because I said he shut it to me. He's like, "I want it." And I was like, "Okay, well, I didn't want to be responsible. Something went down because I was supposed to say something." - I'm glad you did. - But do you know it's actually really funny? We almost got each other the same card. - Oh, that's cool. - So he opened his card that I got him and he was like, "Oh, my gosh, and he went into like little cab cabinet that we have like our cards and pulled it out." And he was like,

"I got to." He ended up giving me the other one. - Wow. - But yeah. - And now I was like, it's in Partico. - Yeah. - I love having a card drawer. We also do that. - Yeah, it's more for like last minute. Like it's somebody's birthday at work and you forget, you know what I mean? Like it's nice to be able to go through and be like, "Oh, I have my card."

- Yes. - Yeah. - Instead of last minute, always like, "Oh, I need to get a card for this."

- Exactly. - We also have a card drawer and it's- - Is that just a don't hood? - Wow. - Giving a don't hood. - I love it. - That's great. - It's nice. - Wait, are y'all watching age of attraction as well? - Yes. - It is insane. - I know, he stands anti. - I personally shouldn't be. - Robbie's also anti, so I will say that. - It's crazy. I mean, the show is, it's so bad. But like, let's save our synopsis to the end,

in case anybody's not watching, but I have some hot takes. - Okay. - Okay, well, get to those later. - Wait, I don't know.

“- I mean, if you want to, yeah, what's the point? - Wait, so if you're not watching,”

if you're watching age of attraction, you don't want to be spoiled. Turn the podcast off right now. - Yeah. - Stop listening. - I mean, it's not much of a spoiler because I've only watched, I think the first two or three. I'm not even caught up. - Yeah. I mean, the- I'll just lay it out for you. The premise of the show is about age gaps and it's people from all different ages from their 20s to their 60s and they're all dating each other, but the one rule is

they're not allowed to ask how old they are. So it's kind of common. In my mind, I'm thinking,

are these people have they never seen someone this age? Like, what is the disconnect? - Well,

I'll say, I think the casting department, like, did a dirty one because I feel like the older people that they put in there look super young. - It works great. I mean, like the guy that's 60, I don't know, any other name folks you see. The guy that's 60. - You're not going to spoil anything, because you're just going to be like the guy or the girl that's 60. - Yeah. I only know their ages. I don't know their names at this point, but the guy that's 60 does not, he did not look 60 to me.

Like, I was shocked, but he did not look 40s. - He did not look 40s, but I just watched him thought. - Is it a forehead? - Yes. Oh, yeah, I did. - Or a forehead. - Or a forehead. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, he's a good looking guy. - He looks, did they casting like busted, like, 20- - No. - No, no, no. - No, everybody's like, everybody looks great. Everybody's like hot, but the people that are, were the, like, the older people to me in my opinion, looked very young.

- No, they got all of their ages wrong. - They're, they're all, oh, I actually was like, right on the money or like, one year off on them. - Yeah. - But they did casting in the sense to do a great job at making it ambiguous because it's kind of like, okay, or they, there's a couple of girls where I'm like, she might be 21. - I don't believe it, I don't believe it. - I'm like, the only reason I know she's 21 is because she's

“drinking alcohol, but I don't think it's 19. - That's what Haley guys like, I think she has to be 21.”

- Yeah, yeah, she looks. - Yeah, she's really cute. But, of course, the men going for these girls, I'm like, these men know exactly what they're doing. - The shop, their faces, they're like, I had no idea, she was 22. I'm like, please. - Haley, you have a daughter older than her, literally. So yeah, it is like the most chaotic show, but the way they're editing it, it ends right before they reveal their ages. So then you're like, well, I just got to see the next episode.

So we're like, hate watching it. So we're like, Robbie was like, I don't want to watch it at all.

Like, you watch it on your own. Like, it's all good. - It always says that about this. So I do,

like, I'll wait to watch it until it's like my time or, you know, if he wants to go to sleep and I'll watch it, but he's like, how old is he? - How old is he? How old is he? - Yeah, they end up together.

the women that are older, that are dating the younger men, I'm like, yeah, go girl. I'm in the middle,

I'm like, oh, I'm going to say that too. Like, there's something, I'm so sorry. There's something creepy about a 60 year old man dating a 27 year old girl. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yes. - Like, so I'm going to stand in to down on that. - It's just creepy. And like, I actually like the guy, like, I like this guy from what I've seen. But like, um, oh, you don't like him. You think there's something weird? - Well, just keep watching. - Oh, shoot. - Yeah. From what I've seen so far,

he seems great. - Uh-huh. - But I'm like, it's just, it's giving, um, um, I'm going to say it.

“- Here's the thing, I'm, if, if it works, like, for people to sing, if it works for you,”

I think, sure, there's a chance that you find a connection with someone with an age gap. But it's like, why are you as a woman having to find a man that much older than you to connect with emotionally? Like, what does that say about him that it took him that long to get to a place where he's connecting with you on an emotional level while you're 20 years old? - Right. Like, I'm like, I'm 38 and I don't think I can connect with a 27 year old. - Like, it's like, what are you talking about? Like, I got, I just,

I keep thinking about that. Uh, and the other thing is, like, culturally, men are in a position of power by default. And women are not. And I know that this is a case by case thing, but I just, when I see this, I'm like, how can that not come into play? Like, this, this, this, this man, I better do what he says, because he's an older man, and I'm taught to, they are leaders, and

respect my elders. - Yes. And I just get, I've never gotten the egg harder than that situation.

I just, like, everything about this. - Yeah. Well, I know. Like, I just, I know a girl that she had, like, her own company really young and sold it. I mean, like, a ton of money was, like, a boss, and, like, was just had her thing going. And she met this guy who was also, like, a really

“wealthy man. I think he was, like, a client or person or something. And they're married. Now,”

they had a significant age gap. But, like, how significant? Like, like, 20 years, probably? - That's significant. - Yeah. But, for whatever reason, they're still together. They have a kid together, like, it worked. And I don't know if that was because she went through something where she wasn't controlled. So, she wasn't like, she needed, right? It wasn't like an authority thing. I think they just connected and had a relationship. So, I'm not saying I don't think it can be there,

but intentionally dating someone, knowing that there's a significant age gap from the beginning, I don't know. Something about it. I know. I also think the state of the world we're in right now and, like, just, like, what we're seeing with, like, the man in power. It's like, I don't know. I don't like it. - No, I'm with you. It's like really creeping me out. And I, like, I had this debate. I was like, I don't really want to support this show. Like, I don't want

to give it my control to me. I think, like, a moral dilemma. Because I'm like, I am into it. And on the other hand, I'm like, there's something in my morality that, like, I don't want to give it streams. I don't want to talk about it. Like, - And here we go. - And here we go. - And here we go. - Do it both. - Yeah. - If you're at the most, if you're listening and you have a successful, healthy age gap relationship, we're not talking about you. - No, no, no, no, no. I want to know

how it came about. - Yeah. - What's happening? - And how you connect and we will give you a platform. - Yeah. - Yes. - Yes. - We will talk too well. We will hear you out. You don't want to say

found interesting. And again, pardon me that I've only watched the first two episodes. - Pardon.

- I feel like Natalie is speaking a lot more than Nick. - So much more. - Why is that? - Maybe they're like hosting women about the power. Let's give them one to Mike. - I love Natalie. So I was like, okay, great. But I noticed that too. - I was like, she's talking a lot more than him. I like, do they like cut it and re-cut all her books? I could tell if they were like rea. What's it called for you? Voice overed? - Yeah. - Yeah, because you could hear them talking and

it's showing the kind of audience. - Yeah. - Oh. - So I don't know. Interesting. But anyways, yeah, it is fascinating. And we would love to hear from you if you're in a situation. That's like good. Like that you are pro, pro age gap. - Yeah. - We wouldn't hear about it. - I'd love to hear you. Actually, I would, I welcome your perspective. Because I do think that I'm having a very viscerally negative feeling about it right now.

- Yeah. - Just from the show. - Yeah. - Like, when you get to a certain age, I think like over 30, if there's like a 10 year age gap. Like, like if your part is 40 in your 30,

“I feel like culturally-- - Yeah. - It's pretty much the same. - That's how I am for eight years.”

I have such a hard time not thinking about is doing the math at the earlier part of life.

- That's three. - Three. Like, that part-- and I know that they did not know each other.

Like, yeah. - That should not take into account, but I do. I think about that all the time. Like, wow, when she was in high school, he was, oh, God. I just, I think about that. - I mean, I think that's probably where the reaction comes from, because you go to that. But I agree. I think at a certain age, you kind of go, okay, I connect with who I connect with. I think when you're in this developmental stage, which I still think early 20s-- - Sure.

- Sure. - for 20s is like a learning yourself and about who you are and what you want. And then I feel like after 30, you kind of have a sense of self. So you're able-- I don't know. And I'm like, also correct me if I'm wrong here. But my impression from watching them when they revealed their ages. Like, every guy, when he found out the girl was like 22 or 27, was like--

And like, and like, the girls were kind of like, yeah.

“I think I can work with that. Like, do you remember the younger girl? - Yeah, yeah.”

Like, they're like, I did fall in love with him and like knowing the soul. So maybe that you don't mean like, they have it. And I feel like they're having to like talk themselves into it, which is like sad to me. - Yeah. - But also, you-- and then the older women are like, oh my god. Like, when they hear the age, they're like, no. Like, they're like, can-- is this-- can I do this? - Right. - It's Teresa.

- Is she the Silas? - No, she's like, I think she's 54 and her boyfriend or the guy is like, Prince Harry, he's like 26 years old. - Yeah, she's the Silas. - She's so cute, yeah. I love her. But her reaction was so like-- - Well, like, well, yes, yes, yes. - She is 54. - Yeah, well done. - Thank you. - Yeah. - Yes, I agree. Like, well thought out, like, the wheels were turning. - She's like, she's younger than my oldest son. - Yeah. - Like, because she thought he was older,

but she's kind of like, it wasn't like a immediate-- I'm okay with that. It was like, processed.

“- Yeah. - We're Jorge, didn't even tell his girl, he's got two kids. - Two kids.”

- Yeah. - Oh, he's like, yeah. - Okay, that's right. - That's right, that's off. - Okay. - He has two kids, but he isn't told her. I'm like, okay, this.

And nobody needs to ask you if you have children. I'm sorry, she never asked.

You know what to ask? - That's someone. That's just part of conversation. That comes up when you're getting to know someone. - She's like-- - And he said, and he said, I don't want to have it outside of marriage. That'd be a great time to say, "I thought I'd do my previous marriage." - That's so funny. You look as now I'm good. - Yeah, but it was so gas-lighty. I was just like, "Oh." So yeah, and that's rhyme app.

- Yeah, that's same. That's where we're at too. - Oh, it's tough. And like, there's nothing else to watch right now because we've finished UK traders and like, "Love Island isn't start till June." Like, I've got nothing to like,

“"Wench my appetite." - I started, uh, "Love is blind to UK." - Wow.”

- That's a path I don't think I can't. - Oh, you have boundaries for that. - Oh, she has standards. - I don't know. - I can only do "Love Island," both ways. - Global, global, and traders, global. I can't do multiple, more than two. - Well, if you're moral dilemma is so strong that you can't watch age of attraction that may be an open-year world to love in our world. - No, we started, um, extract.

Have you heard of it? - No. - Oh, wait, it's like, they're like stuck in the middle of nowhere. - Yeah, I know where they're by themselves and their family is like watching and monitoring them and they can like send them supplies and stuff. - Yeah, that's desperate. - That's where times. - Yeah. - But, um, oh, and you know what other show we're watching is the Dean, um, the Dean Bachelors Manchin Flip show. - Oh, so we started. - Oh, so we started.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yes. - Yes. - Although it's once a week and it's one episode a week. So I'm like, hello. - Wait, there's something so funny about Dean having immunity and leading them to that god-awful blue ceiling and it's like, that idea, the idea could have worked. - We're kind of, but the lens and everything, nothing was. - Yes, I agree. - I agree. - The lens works bad. - It's not like he's such a little turd like leading them through

and being like, well, if they get, if they don't like get, it's not on me. - I like the idea, I just think the blue they chose was a little toy story. I feel like it could have been like a softer blue. - Yeah, in different lengths. It could have been all white if they wanted to make it more mean. - Well, let me be honest. I'm not one to give my opinion about interior decorating. It's not my forte.

So I'm not here to judge. - No, but you know what looks good. - Yeah, it's, I guess. But I was excited about the Santorini room. I thought I was like, and the other one, I thought was beautiful. - Oh, my god. - Like I was like, they got robbed from that wind to be honest. Like girls room looked like a giant cluster. I was like, I would have anxiety if I lived in this room. - Yeah, it's a really strong personality. I was like intimidated, watching.

- Did I do enjoy though? - But let's talk about it when we come back. - Okay.

But was on his screen would change Sasuke's life forever. - I said I need you to tell me exactly what

you're doing, and immediately the mask came off. - You're supposed to be safe. That's your home.

“That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro.”

This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. - Your dangerous person who prays unavailable with trusting people. You're trying to make a love and good. - Listen to betrayal season 5 on the iHeart Radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're

taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast between us, with me, Heather DeBro. - And me, Terry DeBro. Between us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids. - It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts, smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. - Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about.

- And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on tiktok. - Together we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. - We may live in a gated community,

“but they're zero gatekeeping here. - And plenty of, did they just say that moments?”

- Listen to between us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. - On the adventures of curiosity, co-podcasts, what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects? In the case of the right fit, L. Explore's movement, confidence, and belonging,

and learns that not all strength looks the same. - Tennis is powerful, fast, focused, and kind of fun,

strong swing Ella. - This women's history month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. A thoughtful episode about identity, courage, and helping kids discover where they truly belong. So it's okay if I'm not quite sure what my thing is yet. It's absolutely okay. When, and if you do find a sport you love, you may be the next virtue, Tony, or Venus. - At curiosity, come on. - Listen to adventures

of curiosity, cove every Monday from the Black Effect podcast network. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. - Hello, it's me Anna Sinfield from The Girl Friends, the number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the center of their own stories. - I'm back with more one of interviews with some truly kick ass women on The Girl Friends Spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia. - I'm going to climb it!

- And then there's Versaqa. - Let's see how we can stop killing and see her legs. - Layla, dare to ask the question. - Is badness hereditary? - And finally, will meet Rosamund. If it wasn't for the air, where Ella lived, she wouldn't have died on that fatal night.

- You'll even get to meet my mom in that one, who I can always count on to keep my feet on the ground.

“- I'm not too intimidated by her. - What are you talking about?”

- Listen to The Girl Friends Spotlight, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. - We're back. - Scared me. - The most things went to now. - Okay, so what is something you can't say? - Oh, and this is just a food for thought for my HGTV people that work. I love criticizing shows. Although I have zero legs to stand down when

it comes to this stuff. I don't like that their peers are the ones judging them. Like, who are Tasha and Tyler to tell Dean what's better? Do you know who you are? - Is in the industry, but I don't know what Dean. - Yeah, and so is that other chick? Don't know her name, but wouldn't you want someone who's in the industry to judge that? - Not my peers. Like, it would be like, let's say you and I go to on a cooking show.

We're on next level chef and you're judging my meals. I'd be like, who are you to judge my meals?

- You're saying like a chip in Joe and a game. - Yeah. - So we're like the judges.

“- Yeah, like they had Christina Hawke, hack. I don't know how to pronounce. I think it's Hawke.”

Come into judge one of them. Like that, I like that. Like bringing like these these like people that are from other like renovation shows. - Yeah, so I don't like that. I don't like that. It's like their peers because they're saying the relationships there, yeah. But it doesn't feel equal and I don't like that. We're recapping it on the homeless famous podcast that's been initially high and another I heart radio podcast. And a complaint they have is um the contestants scrubbing in another podcast.

- Tanya non-stop. That is all anyone asks me about is scrubbing in. I plug it constantly. Anyone out there who listens to uh, Star's Hollow Style are you a charlotte? Which I'm honest with you. - Which I think Star's Hollow Style are all scrubbers.

- All entirely scrubbers listening. - I just want to make sure because you and Margaret always plug in

these other podcasts. - You know, hey, how about this? How about an anti-plug? Don't download the Ben and Ashley. - No, no, we love that. - They're fine, they're fine. But um, they don't like the other contestants being able to eliminate each other. Like that elimination at the end. - Yeah. - Oh, no, that's very survivor vibes. I don't like that either. I wish that Tasha and Tyler voted or whoever the judge was about the most. - Like what are the judges doing then? - Yeah.

“- Yeah, if not for that. - Literally, that's what I was trying to figure out. I'm like, why are”

they the judges if they don't have a say in who's staying or going? - They do though because they pick the winning team. So those people are safe. So they kind of do. - Yeah, but I'm just saying like,

I've been to the day. It's like, why not have the guest judge be like, this is who I would vote off.

This is, it's very survivor, which I love, which I love. So like, I'm here for the, self eliminating each other. - Oh. - Oh. - But I just don't like that. The peers are judging. Like it's really bothering me. - It's season one. You know, maybe they'll get in a groove and maybe that'll be the complaint from other viewers. - Yeah, they listen to. I would just like, non bias judges. - What do you do for season two? Do you

re, uh, you renovate, um, the paradise? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. What's that place? - Tell them. - And I know that it's into him now. It was in Mexico. - No, it's in Costa Rica now. - It's in Costa Rica now. Yes. But before it was at the same hotel for years, it was right next to where you got married and put into me. - Yes, put into yes. - Oh, why do I think it was to loom? - Um, I don't know if they were to loom, but yeah, they could renovate that.

- Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, after the season, like, what else is there? But I guess they could do like, turn a flip home as they could just buy a flip home and bring a bunch of bachelors people to, so someone who just bought a home and is wanting to flip it would die to just be like, here, give it to a show. - Oh, I think a former bachelor contestant, renovated show. - It's like, yes, wrecking you guys renovate my home. - Risky, Risky.

Yeah, we're enjoying it too. I just like seeing, I love Dean. I just like to see Dean on my side. - Oh, my God. - Oh, my God. - Oh, my God. - I did too. We like text and while we're watching, we're in like a group chat and like, you know, like Robin, I just kind of like, fire all pink pink pink. And I was like, are you, do you enjoy these texts or do they bother you? He's like, now I like it. I'm like, okay, very self aware of these days. That's the proud of you. Thank you. When we talked to Jessica on our episode last week, we hadn't seen the reunion yet. So I just wanted to

discuss some of the highlights because, okay, this is all but, yeah, love is blind. That's fun. Yeah,

“she's gearing shifts, shifting gears. Well, it's still reality TV. That's why I have brought it up.”

Okay, this is the 10th season of love is blind, right? Yes. Why on a reunion show? I know what you're going to say. Are we, why does it feel like it's season one? Like they're like just getting started. It's like, why are we panning to the audience? There was so much to just, I get it if there wasn't a lot of juiciness going on this season. But it was like, it was jam past juice. Like they had enough juice to cover two hours of footage. Yes, I agree with you.

I'm like, I didn't need the Q&A for I was like having to like squint my eyes, even like, know who these people were because every time I watch a season, it's like in my head and then gone. Like I'm just like gone. And if I want to keep up with them, I'll follow them on Instagram, like any normal human, like stalk the on Instagram. I don't need you wasting precious airtime on my season 10 reunion. Which is in five. Or like a gender reveal with the

posture that was like so. It was like not appropriate. Yeah, it is. Yes. So, okay, there was a dilemma because when we talked to Jessica, she was like, we're all the girls are close.

Yeah. But I can't decide who's in the divide. Well, it's a breed. And then pre, who wasn't,

we never saw, really, she didn't have the story. And Ashley. Yeah. And then Brittany, Jessica,

Amber and Emma. Oh, really. Okay. I felt like Amber was kind of, uh, I think Amber is floating amongst, uh, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. An artist stands. Um, but I have a few things to say. When Amber stormed off the stage, I don't know if it was edited to where it felt that erupt, but I was like, whoa, we went from like zero to 1,000 and she was gone. Like, okay. Same. Well, why wasn't anyone questioning Breemore? I feel like Bree barely, no one was like,

to question her, her, her, really, her conversation with Chris that much. They didn't really question her conversation with Connor. She could have breezy breezy breezy. The after effects have been tough.

“Like, I think everyone needs to remember. These people are humans. They did sign up for a TV show.”

But like, as someone who's been on a TV show, you don't realize how much of an

opinion people are going to have on your decisions or how it's going to be edited until you do. And it's, it's a lot. So, you know, you can be, question someone's, uh, choices. Well, yeah. And like, I honestly had a little bit of an issue with the way, like, I actually like Nick and Vanessa. I like them as hosts. And I think they usually do a pretty good job. But this reunion, I felt like they were really condemning people in a way that

like, I don't know, like, you need to get therapy. And it's like, I don't know if that's your, yeah, it's a TV show. Very, um, like, look, like, like, you said, everybody is coming in at these people, like, especially what's his name, Chris, the guy. Like, obviously, we all hate him.

He said and did horrible things. But like, the way that he was treated,

the way he was spoken to at the reunion to me was just like, that's not your place as a host. Do you know what I mean? To like condemn and like, we've all made mistakes. If we, if we've filmed all of our lives, like, I'm sure a lot of us have said and done horrible things that we're not

“even aware of. You know what I mean? And so it's just like, I think the way it was handled, which is”

like, a little bit too, like, aggressive in that way, um, which I'd rub me wrong a little bit. Well, you also have to think about people's mental health. Like, these are human beings. And like, he's on this not, like, international stage that people are watching from all over the world, and it's edited. Like, that's not a live reunion. So anything, even if they asked him a question, he didn't give them anything, they could have just cut it out and not even addressed him.

You know? Yeah. And I just felt like at a certain point, it's like he did and said some horrible things. And I hope that he's looking inward and reflecting on that after seeing it on TV. Right. But I don't think it's someone's place to criticize or condemn to the point where you go, like, I hope he doesn't harm himself. And that's like a reality of, yeah. Like, I honestly think he was like on beta blockers. Like, he did not. He looked like he was out to lunch that whole reunion. Like,

he was just like there. But like, not there. I saw Vic say that that he was like, where he's like, listen, you know, it's one thing holding people accountable for their actions. And it's another thing like thinking about people's mental health and like what they're going to do, you know, outside of being on this public stage. Yeah. But I was shocked to see, well, just committed to seeing like Amber and Jordan were still together. Yes. And I was dead. I was dead. I was

excited with that. So you were like, yes, I was only worried about them. And I'm glad they're still together. I can't even queen. And now like that reunion shattered me. They couldn't be more not together. Couldn't be, couldn't be further apart. Yeah, couldn't be further apart. And to be honest, I'm like on both of their sides. They just were not right for each other. Correct. Yeah. And and also like I want to say, like she, she was like, you don't do that. You

don't make that promise for somebody that has a kid as someone who dated somebody that

“had a kid, like, you really don't know what it's like until you're in it. Do you know what I mean?”

Like, you can't predict, you can't make a commitment until you've like, again, they're on a TV show and they have a living in about a time. So it's like, it's a totally different situation. But like, you can't make these promises until you're in it. And you like live life with these kids and this as a family. You know, like that's when you really experience it. And so like I was like, she's kind of throwing it in his face that he did something like nasty to her child. And I don't

think that was his intention at all. Not at all. Yeah. Yeah. I just think like the two, like even said, like the two of them didn't get along. I had nothing to do with them for having a kid. But yeah, the whole, and then we'd not learn anything from the reunion with the basketball hoops. I'm like, why are we watching Devontay and Alex's soccer balls at each other? Why are they living together

police soccer shoot out? Like on the reunion? And then what's this musical guess? Like, oh my god,

“it was so much like, what are we doing? They, they, it's, there's been too many seasons to excuse”

it at this point. I know. Like I, as an avid TV watcher, I would just like to be a consultant on the, I will give my advice for free, because I do like that they have the old contestants back in the audience. I do feel like it, it, it makes them probably feel more comfortable. And so having like, you know, strangers, that they have, you know, like they have their peers there. And it's not as like intimidating maybe. So I like having them as the guests audience. Do you know how

to answer? Oh. Wow. I just don't need questions from them or like moments with them, you know.

But someone's so much like posted photos from like them being in the green rooms and

backstage or whatever. And they're like eating pizza and they have like chips and snacks at one paper plates and everyone's like, so you're going to give them like a black tie event and show for them to get all styles for and you're going to serve them pizza and a paper point with photos and chips. You know what? No. No. They're budgets too big for that. You think? Yeah.

“Take the money that you paid for your musical gas and give them some, what should they give them?”

But lay them in y'all. Maybe just a sit down dinner and like a salad table and a moustache and a chicken breast at the very least on a, some China. I'm on a tent tonight. Or so they have some good looking plastic silverware. No. We can do better. I set up a table's game with Amazon Plus. Oh, me too, for Angela's stunning stunning. That is so funny. I have it. It's funny that, okay. So peeling back the curtain, peel back. I don't know how we do the podcast, but we interviewed

Jess that Tuesday, which is why Becca said we hadn't watched the reunion. They didn't give it to us,

but they basically told us, well, we thought, yeah, there was something that were wrong,

however, whatever. But so we were told that we couldn't air Jessica until today. This is the following Monday. And which is a bummer because I do feel like now that we're talking about it. I'm like, I feel like the reunion was so old at this point. I still see people talking about it, which is why I brought it up. So, but I'm so glad because me, Tanya, sitting in my bed. I'm scrolling scrolling and I'm saying all these love is blind people doing podcasts. So I'm like,

poke poke to our producers, look what's happening. All these people are talking like, why are we embargoed until Monday? So then we got to the bottom of it. It was just Jessica and her new boyfriend was the embargo until Monday. But Jessica herself, we could unleash. So we unleash her, her episode last week and we held on to the embargoed part of the interview, which was her and Harmel. Harmel together. Together. Yeah. But I felt really like proud of myself for like getting

so proud of you because you were relentless. I was like Tanya's texting a group chat again. What is she sending? And it's like another sending that more interviews. This person's on this podcast. This person's on the other. I was like, why is ours held till Monday? I just didn't appreciate that we were being held to a different standard than other podcasts. And I agree. We learned a bunch of tastes back responses. So I took that. Why? I forgot about the tastes back

of it all. And I got so many messages. I was like, oh my god, I forgot this is what we said. Did right? I got so many tastes back messages. So I feel validated in my theory. Well, our theory, what was your theory? That people listen in 20 minute increments, but they come back to finish the episodes. So like us doing shorter episodes wasn't behaving or listening longer. Yes, it wasn't behaving anyone because we were like, oh, if they're only listening for 20 minutes, then we'll be

listening up to 40 minutes. But no, they're listening in increments of 20 minutes. But coming back to finish that episode. So we won't be doing 20 minute episodes. Don't worry. They won't be getting shorter. No. And we're getting longer as the days get longer. In the days are getting longer and warmer and warmer. So, um, we'll sort of should we release the harmful, the harmful files? Yeah, the just normal. Yeah. So we're going to tack on our Jessica and harmful portion of our interview

to the end of this episode for your enjoyment. Um, please listen to it and give us your feedback. Yeah, let us know what you think about this new couple. And um, and then we'll be back on Thursday

“with a deer bomb. Yeah. And um, something very important is happening this weekend. Yeah, that's”

right. Uh, the EC words are this weekend. Saturday the 21st and if you're not in LA, you can watch

to be a lot of crazy stuff happening. Uh, I have definitely overexcended myself with a lot of moving

“parts. It'll be very funny to see how it all crashes down on me. But I wanted to say I put, I put”

a taste back in the show. It's hidden. If you watch the EC words, there will be taste back hidden somewhere. The words are not the song. I don't know the right. So that you can, I take the words taste back. I take a call. The words taste back are in the show. And if you DM me where that you saw it, I'll send you a EC words hat or something. I don't know. But yeah, you've really up to the EC awards from, like, significantly this year. Yes. It's a, it's a therelation theater if you're in LA,

and there are, as of this recording, they're still tickets available. And it's going to be a lot of fun, you guys. Uh, so yeah, I'll, I'll see you on the 21st. Right. I see you talking about this on Thursday. We won't, not mention the EC words on Thursday. No, no, no, no, this is your, this is your head, this is on the EC awards. Yeah. And following Easton on. Oh, yeah, at Easton Allen, follow me. I need this. Um, we love you so much. Love you. Don't ever do it. Just kind of humble. Please enjoy.

In the middle of the night, Sasuke awoke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. I was on his screen would change Sasuke's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing and immediately the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home.

“That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro.”

This is a story about the end of a marriage. But it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. Your dangerous person who prays un vulnerable and trusting people. Your father to make a love and good. Listen to betrayal season five on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Almost 30 years together for kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We know a thing or do about living life out loud.

We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast between us with me, Heather DeBrow. And me, Terry DeBrow. But between us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids. It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could

“eavesdrop on. Equal parts, smart, funny and a little bit scandalous. Every week,”

Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok. Together we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but they're zero gatekeeping here.

And plenty of, did they just say that moments? Listen to between us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the adventures of curiosity, co-podcasts, what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects? In the case of the right fit, L. Explore's movement, confidence, and belonging, and learns that not all strength looks the same.

Tennis is powerful, fast, focused and kind of fun, strong swing Ella. This women's history

month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. A thoughtful episode about identity, courage, and helping kids discover where they truly belong. So it's okay if I'm not quite sure what my thing is yet. It's absolutely okay. When, and if you do find a sport you love, you may be the next Gertju, Tony, or Venus. Listen to adventures of curiosity, cove every Monday from the Black Effect podcast network.

On the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, it's me Anna Sinfield from the Girl Friends. The number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the center of their own stories. I'm back with more one-off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girl Friends Spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia. I'm going to climb it! And then there's Versaqa. Let's see how we can stop killing and see

of waves. Lola dare to ask the question, "Is badness hereditary?" And finally, will meet Rosamund.

You'll even get to meet my mum in that one who I can always count on to keep my feet on the ground.

“I'm not too intimidated by her. What are you talking about?”

Listen to the Girl Friends Spotlight on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone horrible has joined us. They're very cute. They're smiling and staring at each other. So we got a little bit of the rundown of kind of you were in the pods you left because it was just like overwhelming, which I actually could understand. I could understand. Just not even having my phone or computer for days on end would make me and my head too much, I think.

Yeah, I know for sure. I think for me, I was in someone of a unique mindset going in. I think like coming in, I was very conscious of whatever I say or do on TV. Do brown people don't get screen time very much. And so I felt like I was representing my family and my culture and all these things. And so not that I was like walking on eggshells, but I was very very aware of whatever my pursuit is, which was just, but like whatever I decide I want to chase after,

“that there are more consequences than just me. And so I like, I think sometimes people forget that.”

And I just was very aware of that early on. What's your background like where your parents from? So my parents are from Punjab, which is northwest India. So like they moved here as immigrants and like they just like the amount of sacrifice they had for me and my brother and stuff like that. It's not something I take for granted anyway. And so like I like really, really care about that. That's like the cultural thing, the heritage thing is like very important to me. And so I walked in with

that understanding, I was like, I want to be the best version of myself, not just reflect on me, but my parents and like my family and like my culture and stuff. And so, um, and so I walked in with that. And one part of that was just like making sure I'm doing this for the right reasons. And

I actually never wanted to be on the show. Like they reached out and they were very persistent.

They were very very scared. They were very persistent. They were very persistent eventually. I was like, okay, let's go ahead and do this thing because I've like, I don't really watch much reality TV, but I've seen like the Bachelor on the Bachelor at and it bothers me because like, people say it's like, you know, scripted or something, but it's like watching people get their hearts broken. And people just like, it's like something

that consume on TV, it bothers me so much. And so at a hard time watching that, I'm like, I don't know if I can be involved in something like that, but they're like, just like, watch a season, and I watch one of the early moments like, okay, this is like something maybe we can do in a safe way that people aren't going to get hurt. And so I think, um, like as it went on, it was like so good. When I first got in my element, I love talking about this stuff. Like it's

so great connecting with people. And then once it got towards the end, it got like very, very real. And not in a bad way, but in a way where I was like, I just started feeling like, man, people are going to get hurt. Like, whether it's like, I'm okay with getting hurt. I'm fine. I can do with that, but to be the caught like the pain for somebody else. And so like, just the only reason I was even there. Like I, like when we watched in the pods, like I didn't expect to really

mean anybody, I expect to connect to people. But like, it was just like, we, the number of things that happened. And I wish we could watch it back because it was like lightning moment. Have you asked them for the footage? Um, not yet. We haven't directly asked them. We need the public to get involved. Yeah, I think we should, you've been, if they don't even release it on, like, on Netflix, they should release it on like their Instagram and stuff. So that people can

see, like, we want to see how you guys met. Like in the talk about gut shared. I, first of all, love what you said about your representation and brown. That is not something you hear a lot about. You know, if it's something that people are processing, it's not something people talk about.

“So I think that's such an important conversation. Um, I want to know, so y'all, Matt, it was electric.”

Of course, when you left, I mean, do you think if you hadn't left, would y'all have had that the moment of choosing each other in the doors opening? Yeah. Um, honestly, I think there's a, there's a duality to everything. It's like, I think sometimes people use these phrases. Um, that kind of exempts them from responsibility. So for example, like, like, the universe has a plan, like, God has a plan, the universe has a plan, like everything. And I believe that's in my core.

I believe like everything happens for a reason. But sometimes people use this escapism when like, oh, my god, like everything happens for a reason. And then what you have to meet it, you know, like, if like, if everything is in front of you on a silver platter and you're afraid, because something bad is going to happen and you don't meet it. Yeah. Like people, the good things don't happen if you're just stuck in your house the entire time. Right. So I think there's like a

two version of that one. It's like, like, look at where we are right now. And this is amazing. And I love it.

And then I also look back and I'm like, yeah, do there's some level of responsibility of being like,

you had everything. And you didn't like, do it. Do you guys have a lot of emotional about the

stuff, man? What did you sign? Oh, what do you think my sign is we talked about? Oh my god, you know, this is so tonguey. I like she's going to be able to guess everyone's signing. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I have to get the right. I don't know. Are you a Pisces? I've heard Pisces before. I'm there. Cancer. I've heard cancer before. My mom's a cancer. So I probably have a lot of my mom. Scorpio. Nope. No, I'm not a Scorpio. No, keep going. You go like, keep going. This is great. Yeah, that's all. I thought, what are sign? Because you're emotional. I am very emotional. Really? No, no, no, no, no. Don't, you're not Gemini. No, I'm not a Gemini. Okay.

Cause I don't know where it is. I'm serious. I'm serious. I'm serious. And no, not a queries. I'm just listening. This is me. Alibrat. No, I'm not a

leader. Virgo. Virgo. Wow. Can I tell you something? Do you want to actually feel really good about that? It's those like things when you fall into a category,

“where it's like, oh, I know what you are. The fact that you came up with like eight different things, I think that's the best part about humans. It's like it's so”

more complex. You are the more parts you have to yourself or it's like, dude, what is this thing that's in front of me? Like, I think everybody has that in them. Yeah. And it's just like, I don't know that makes that make me feel really good, this could pin me. I mean, you are done with the sign. So I got it. I'm staying. My senses are off. So as your mentality is kind of like, okay, I, I wouldn't. What was supposed to happen? I was supposed to talk to Jess at the very least. I was supposed to connect with her on some level. Yes. But I had her,

like, it was handed me, but I, I, I walked out. I did. Yeah. But because things work out how they're supposed to, we, we reconnected and here we are. Yeah, exactly.

That's kind of the mentality of like, you had to make one step, which is to go on the show. Yeah. And that, that was the one step that mattered. Do you guys work at the same hospital? No, we don't. No, we don't. But, are they close? That would be a problem. Yeah. What would be a problem? Not a me. I'm not. I didn't talk about it for me. It would be how it would be very destructive. No, no, no, no, no, no. But it's not like, it's a natural problem. No, no, no, no. Are they close by? Not really, no. But you guys have an understanding of like each other's careers and lives. I think most people don't really have it. They're not like in it.

“We make it a lot easier. Yeah. I want to know, did you watch this, the scene heard around the world that we all gathered around Jessica and collectively united on something finally. Yeah, which is great. Did you, did you watch it?”

I did. I definitely, I definitely watched it. So we're not too first of all. Was it hard to watch? It was, um, yes. And there's so many layers to things. You know, I think that's the thing where people watch people on TV. And it's just very quick to reduce something to your initial reaction. Like, Oh, this is how people should feel about it. And there's so much complexity to it. I think the one thing I felt the most was just like, I was very proud of her. Like, it was just like, do to be able to handle that in that way.

They was talking about like, um, like, oh my god, everyone was gets her flowers, but like what cemetery is it built on? And it's like, how much have you had to go through to be able to handle that in that moment? And it's like those layers that like no one sees. It's like, I was like very proud of her. It was, it was truly amazing. Like, we were just, we were talking about it earlier than like her, um, sorry. The way she didn't even give him something to work to, to react to was the most powerful. I was like, that's someone who knows their worth.

So when I took away from it, I was like, Jessica knows who she is. She didn't need him to say, say anything that was complimentary or try to go back. She was like, I don't need to hear anything else from you. Yeah, you've said enough. And that was like, very impactful. I hope that people watching were able to be like, wow, that is how I hope to react to someone who ever treats me that way if I remember in that situation.

“It was amazing. You got everything? Yeah. That's what it is. That's just what I want to say for people that don't react like that. You know, it's like, it's a great, you know, it's like I very hard. How can you, like that?”

You just, we just watched like the apex version of that thing, or it's like, how do you have like self respect, how do you know your worth, how do you do it in real time when someone's coming at you? That's a very different situation than like on a quiet Sunday when you're like, how did you're doing your mantra as your talk? I just have to say, like I've been obviously not in front of cameras and like not in front of any of this, not from a man, but like I have been called like. Chubby this plain Jane ugly, like all like from somebody that like, and my, I did not react the way that you did. I was just like so furious and so it's like to be able to handle it the way that you did like really actually inspired me to just kind of like.

They just don't deserve any bit of you. Yeah, they don't. Yeah.

So you, what was the first date like when you all reconnected? What was the first date because you all ended up now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the first day was like we ended up, uh, so we ended up going to like a, a, first of all trying to pin her down. So like, hey, can we just hang out? Yeah, we heard that far. Oh my god. We heard there's a little confusion on where the romance and friendship. Well, that's fair, that's fair. I got your bros.

I know where bros like that. I realized that later. So the first, like, we finally like, it was actually funny because like, I was, if I want, if I want something or if I need, like, it's like, I'm very persistent with it. Like, very persistent with it until it's very natural. Like until something changes, like, okay, like take a hint. Because I think another thing is like, I'm not trying to tell people like, guys, like, oh my god, keep like trying to keep trying. Like, do you take a hint sometimes? But it's like, if something's really important, like, also don't go the other way.

I think there's a thing about, like, good guys and bad guys to put that in air quotes, but it's like, I think good guys need to be more persistent and do more good things. And you just show up in spaces that they're like nervous about doing because they're like, oh, maybe I'm being too much, maybe I'm whatever. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, the bad guys are doing the opposite where they're just like, really percentage like you're just chill.

“And so, um, I remember the first time we finally like hung out, it was at a wine bar and it was after I think it was after work for you.”

I don't even remember. But I was like, hey, listen, don't even get dressed up, just like, where's sweats? Can we just hang out and she's like, yeah, let's do that. And so we ended up going in the wine bar.

And we spent the first, like, couple hours just like, talking, just catching up on all the, like, the wife stuff.

She was like, oh, like, this was happening with the earth. And that's whatever I'm like talking about if I stuff. And the whole time, like, I don't want to talk about this. Like, I need to, you to know, like, what I'm here for, like, very, like, I need you to know what this is. This is not, like, hey, let's hang out. Yeah. And so at some point, it just kind of, what it was like, hey, by the way, I really, really like you. And I should have, like, a, I had this text that I hadn't set where I was like, hey, Jessica Barry, I would really, really, really like, take you on a date.

And it's like, didn't send it. And I was like, holding on to it for a while. And then we finally had the, had the date. And I was like, here, I'm just going to put all of my cards in the middle of the table. Like, here, all the eggs in my basket, just how I operate. It's like, I don't have step. It's like, dude, if I'm doing something, I'm doing it.

“And so I remember I said that and she, like, I think you had, like, a panic attack, basically.”

I think you had a panic attack. She was like, oh man, like, I don't, I'm not ready for this. I don't want it. She just straight up said no. This is not the wine bar. This is not the wine bar. She's like, I'm not ready, which, which, again, talking about, like, just respecting people in the space.

It was like, first of all, it was like, you know, leading up into this. Like, we hadn't even started, like, the, and like, like,

like, her life was crazy. All things are happening. So being able to take us that back and be like, yes, I respect that. And so she wanted to be friends for a while. And so I said, okay, let's be friends. But I also don't text my friends 40 times a day. Right. And so I'm a very emotional person. Like, this means a lot to me. Like, I'm not talking to girls like this. I don't do that. And you're the person that I'm like, I don't have side stuff going on. I'm like, you're just in it. And so we kept running into that problem where I was like, we were texts, we were texts, and then I would be like, hey,

I'm, every text I send you means something. It's not I'm not being friends with you. I can't do it. I feel like I'm living a lie. I can't lie. And so eventually came up with one, like, I don't think I can do the friends thing again. And I respect your space. And I'm going to, like, really mean that. Like, you take care of yourself. You do your thing. But I can't be a friend to you. It's just a lie. And so I think it was what we, we went through like a mini moment. I was like, okay, fine. And then like 12 hours later, it was like the week. I was like, no, I need you.

Oh, I missed, I missed your text. I were texting a couple of other girls. And I was like, why do I feel like I just went through a breakup? And we didn't even like, we weren't even actually like dating yet. And I just like spiraled all night. And then finally I was like, so if I wanted to be brave, what would that look like?

“That's what you said. Yeah. I think it's just, you just, um, I don't know. I don't know, I was trying to like do something and get somewhere.”

And I think it's just trying to create spaces where it can happen. Like, just trying to create safe spaces where like good things can happen. And so that was my thing. It was just, hey, what does that, what does that look like? Because I want a version of this. But like, really what I want is just what's best for you. And so like, creating a space where you allow it to flow or it's like, you know what, if it works out and we're doing awesome. If I can be your friend and that's the best way I can do it. Awesome. But if you need to be over there and that's the best thing for you, then like that's how it works. But just creating a space where it's like the pressure of expectation and whatever.

I just don't want to, I don't like putting people in space where they feel like they have to do something. It's like, take care of yourself and like, I care about you enough to like allow this happen. And this is how it worked out.

No, then the silent just go. Well, first of all, I don't really remember. We listen to very different music.

Also, we had two playlists. One was five songs that mean love to you and five songs that like explain who you are. Okay. And I wasn't about to like make him listen to my love songs after I thought he was like, maybe you're going to break up.

“So like, let's just listen to our fun songs. I'll be fun, huh?”

So we just playlists. I was it. Like, what was your fun playlists? Mine was like Taylor Swift, Alicia Keys. I had, I can do it with a broken heart, a grown fire. Well, you remember all these, I have to lay out of the list. Okay, I understand. A Broadway song.

Very different from this. Okay, go ahead. What's your other one? Well, it's the last question of the podcast. Where does the future hold for them? No. Oh gosh. What's the question?

What's it? It's blood blood. I'm going to ask it. Oh my God. My bad. I just want to know what the future holds for you guys.

Do you think love is blind?

I think love is blind. Just. I still don't really know. I've got to see him. Oh my God.

But you, you had feelings before you used them. Yeah, very much so. Very much so. It definitely would not have mattered. Wait. You just have to be really freaking out.

What's on the future hold for you? Any like, what? I mean, it's been a couple of months, but like, I feel like, especially, we were actually just talking about this on the way here.

“I'm such a planner and such like, what's next? What is this?”

And we're kind of in a space where we're just who knows what happens next. And so I'm trying my best to kind of like, lean into that and actually go with the flow for once in my life. And just actually enjoy the moment that we're home. Yeah.

I think a plan. It's like plans are really good. But you just miss these like a little moment. For example, like this, you guys do this all the time.

This is the first time we're doing this.

This is, this is just cool to hang out with you. This is just very, very nice. And then we get to do it together and like, we're at the airport. And you're going to think it's silly. We're at the airport and we're like walking.

And we have to like cross this cross way. And like the, you know, like the walking sign and like stopped. And she's like, oh my god, we have to get across the street. And I was like, I don't know. Dude, we have to do that.

And we just kind of stood there for a while like that each other. And it was just like this little moment. If you have plans, you just like missed those things. Yeah. So we'll just do it in that. It's just like there's so much life happening right now. Yeah.

It's just like, like good things. If you just like just stay in the moment and you're like very present. Like good things have to happen. So we're just there. So you guys stay in the moment.

We will keep leading the charge on getting Netflix. Please. Please. We have to take that on. Thank you so much for your time.

You really, really appreciate it. Yeah.

“I think we are all just so happy for you.”

Seriously, it's like it. You watching. Watching your journey and seeing where you are now is like the most like satisfying ending. Yeah. For this chapter.

So we're very happy for you and both of you together. And we can't wait for next season. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. [MUSIC] In the middle of the night.

Saskia woke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. But was on his screen. Would change Saskia's life forever. I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.

And immediately the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to betrayal season five on the iHeart Radio app.

Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You have to protect this. I heard in TikTok have come together to create something new. I love it. We're the world of TikTok meets your playlist.

Three words that will change your life. I heard TikTok radio. The biggest hits across iHeart Radio. What's trending for you on TikTok? Tell me you sound that's better than this.

[MUSIC] Let's TikTok's most influential creators all in one place. Search for iHeart TikTok radio. Make it a preset and stay connected all day. I actually dropped better when I'm high.

It heightens my senses. It comes with down. If anything, I'm more careful.

That's probably what the driver who killed a four year old told himself.

And now he's in prison.

“You see, no matter what you tell yourself,”

if you feel different, you drive different.

So, if you're high, just don't drive.

“Brought to you by Nitsa in the ad council.”

Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We're taking you behind the scenes in our podcast between us, with me, Heather DeBrow. And me, Terry DeBrow.

“The unfiltered behind closed doors conversations, you wish you could even drop on.”

And plenty of, did they just say that moments? But what's the latest rumor I'm gay, right?

First of all, if I were gay, I would be gay.

Open your free iHeart radio app, search between us and listen now. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.