BREAKING: Judge Just Stopped Virginia Redistricting

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Because eyes are on Virginia. A lot of you are asking yesterday. We took one call about it. Because people were curious. What the legal ramifications were going to be in the fallout of the successful.

If you will, vote to redistrict Virginia.

And what we at least consider to be a fairly unfair way. So much so. That even some of my friends who are more liberal leading in Virginia started posting. You know what? We don't like the idea of doing this.

But we're going to do it anyway. Because the Republicans deserve it. That's really how you should be voting.

“With that, we want to take your calls at 1-800-684-3110.”

Because there were some breaking news. And that is that a judge. Now you may say, Logan, you guys talk a lot about judges blocking things. But a judge stepped in in Virginia. And has blocked the certification of this redistricting.

Jordan's here. Will's here. What's this mean? That's right.

So what we get is this out of the circuit court of Taiswell County in Virginia.

In the western part of the state. In Jordan, this judge put out. It's about a five-page order. A final judgment that is blocking the certification of the vote that took place. Which means that they cannot move forward with the redistricting.

They cannot use that new map that has been put forward by the house of delegates and the Senate in Virginia. Because of a litany of invalidating reasons. And that is where they violated repeatedly with the way this went forward. Both the Virginia Constitution as well as state code. Yeah, I mean, it starts off with state code.

Again, even if you live in Virginia, you're not going to know all of these off the top of your head. But involving the house joint resolutions and the governor's and special sessions back into 2024. Then goes into the Virginia Constitution article 11. Section one. So there's been no ensuing.

General lecture of the house of delegates. And that has to. And that can occur until twenty twenty seven. And then you can't do that until then. Again, Virginia code thirty thirteen.

It's not like he was like just spouting off reasons why this isn't right because it's not good for the The Republic. It's not good for the Commonwealth of Virginia voters or it's not fair. It was it was a straight up say this violates our state law and constitution when something violates the state constitution. And the state law in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

It should not be able to move forward. So this is one of the cases moving forward right now in Virginia. There are others as well. And we'll talk about them as the show goes on. Yeah, and I think we should as we tell people keep watching.

We're going to get into that breakdown how quickly this could move in the state court system. And maybe even the Supreme Court of the United States when we get back. But there's a lot to unpack here. Yeah, because the ramifications of this are obviously very imminent. This is something that would be happening in just a few months.

So what does that look like for this process? We'll get into it. And of course, I see some of your comments going well. The people voted for it. Why does the judge feel like they can do this?

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That being said, the main topic of the day. Yesterday we discussed a little bit. Of course, the day before was when the vote was happening. That was for the- what we feel is the improper redistricting of the state of Virginia.

Really would change well.

The full landscape of this state to take it from a purple state. Historically purple state for the last two decades. To now being completely controlled by one point. It would be a six to five split in favor of Democrats when it comes to congressional delegates. Which in reality is one of the more fair maps probably-

“Because, right, that's what it currently is.”

Because Kamala Harris won the state by about 52%. So if you look at that, okay, a little bit more than half. That's what the congressional delegation breakdown is.

That's probably a very fair map as far as it comes to representing the state.

They would then take it to a 10-1 Democrat advantage for the congressional delegation. So taking out the seats of these- These Republican seats in giving it to the Democrat party. To try and tip the balance of power in the House of Representatives in Congress. Now, when you start to look at this and I think we should go to this call.

Because this judge put out this order and I think it's very important also for people to look at. Because it isn't just saying what you did was a purely partisan exercise in this. And therefore, I'm just- I'm going to throw it out and put it on hold.

“That's what you see a lot of times with these federal judges that we have disagreed with their nationwide injunctions and things of that nature.”

They were just trying to block policy. This is not really about the policy at all. It's saying that you didn't go through the right procedures to put this to a vote to the people. It's not even saying that the people's voices are invalidated. It's saying that the people, the general assembly that put this before you,

didn't do their job. They didn't follow the constitution of the state and they didn't follow the laws that the general assembly has passed in the state. Therefore, this is an invalidated vote. We will not certify this vote that took place. Now, I think we should go to Benjamin calling for Montana online one. Because he has a similar question to that.

Go ahead, Benjamin, you're on Seculo. Yeah, thanks for staying in the call. I just hear it's why he did this not get struck down before it was on the ballot and say everyone's time and money of going through the whole voting process. It's interesting because a lot of people are talking about if this does eventually go down and does not go into effect. How much money millions and millions of the Democrats have spent on a wasted effort, which will go right back to the exact same congressional map. So again, some of that is politics and if you're going to play loose with politics and the court system and you want to rush something through it.

You got the money to do it and you say, okay, let's we're willing to take the legal challenges that come to see if we can flip, you know, from a six five dim leaning state to a 10 to one congressional map. I mean, that's worth the millions for the Democrat party in this upcoming election and so they had to weigh that when weigh what would happen in court. And I think what will said needs to be underscored here because we've seen activist judges try to invalidate votes of the people votes of Congress actions by the president and they do it like in these one liners and they try to do it for the whole nation.

This is not that this is the appropriate challenge to inappropriate laws or constitutional amendments in the way they're put for it, which commonly goes through a long process. Usually the language goes through a process and certification and then that the language itself can sometimes be litigated to make sure voters understand what exactly they are voting on. And we read it out yesterday and if you just showed up to vote unless you were educated on how to vote like voting this way, if you vote yes, it means you're voting for more Democrats.

If you're voting no you're voting to kind of keep the status quo which at least gives Republicans a chance unless you knew that. This language sounds kind of bought temporary which it is. We're going to do this again anyway in 2030 so don't worry when the census comes out and we're just doing this to kind of get things in order now and and make things more fair. Now and so when you see that again, it's not like it passed overwhelmingly either. I mean, outspent the Democrats poured money in it passed by three for points and so you realize a lot of Virginia's didn't realize what I was trying to do is that type they called it so quickly.

That I felt like I didn't even look at the percentage. I just didn't even need like a supermajor. It was just needed a popular. It was clear was going to pass the question was now the question is now is does it stand up for the next election.

Well, to Benjamin's question as well, why didn't they invalidate it before they even got to a vote part of it is goes to the point of why it's being invalidated by this order is that.

“The Supreme Court of Virginia had a challenge earlier. Yes, that they said we're not going to get to this until after the vote.”

We're going to let the process play out and we are going to see and then we will move forward part of that is the way the legal system works and and when there is something that is right for a challenge. Sometimes you want to get ahead of it, you'd prefer to, but you can't legally challenge it until there is harm or if there is a violation. You can't preemptively strike down a violation of the Constitution sometimes and I think this is also the point as well.

There is a hearing set in the Virginia Supreme Court on Monday on a separate case that is already made it up to the Virginia Supreme Court.

We know that the attorney general of the state of Virginia. Remember him. We talked about him. He's the one who had a lot of language saying he would like to kill Republicans or wished harm on someone else who is in the house of delegates his family because maybe then he would change his policy on gun control. That's the guy who's the attorney general now. He won his race and he is saying we are immediately going to appeal this to the appellate level in Virginia. Because there is that case on Monday, we could see this move at lightning speed. They could appeal today. The appeals court could decide to do something very quickly so that the Supreme Court of the state has this by Monday to consolidate the hearings and try to move forward.

Because I don't think they're going to want to have to do multiple rounds of this at the state court also Virginia Supreme Court when it comes to issues of procedure in their constitution. They tend to go very textualist. When it comes to the procedures, they very much are like, hey, we have rules and we play by those rules. You could see a positive ruling out of the Supreme Court. The main reasons even, they said we're going to hold until after the vote when it came to that other case. Yes, and this is something he used to get administration's time and time again on the right and left when they try to move too quickly is if you don't follow the right procedures,

you don't get to go no effect. There are some ways around that if you have special powers like President United States with executive order and commander and chief power, there are certain states of emergency and things like that. This isn't that situation. They are creating this moment where they must redistrict even though they're going to be going through this process again and just a handful of years. And again, I thought from the language to the way it broke down the districts, they had problems. And then of course, when you did a deeper dive into their own state law, the Virginia and the law of the Commonwealth, you realize that this is this violates a lot of their procedural rules that makes it very easy for judges.

“I don't know if you can't remember what they're where they left or right to say, you know what, hands off that, this is not right. You guys, you want to do this vote. There's ways you can do it. This is not the way to do it.”

I've never seen really a more blatant response from people on the other side specifically saying that this is a politically motivated moment that they don't even have an excuse.

You have most people voting for this voting for this knowingly and wantingly to make their state less representative of the actual populace. Right. Now, of course, their response is, well, this is what happens when conservatives started doing this in Texas. And now there's Florida is on a lot of states that are starting to roll out potential for these redistricting. Is it blanket that this is not good in general heading in towards election season that even for Republicans that are trying these things, because that's what they're saying is, hey, essentially an eye for an eye if if Texas can do it, so can we on the other side.

“Well, I think it's if if Texas can do it and they follow the laws of the state of Texas and they follow and they survived the legal challenges.”

That's one thing, but if you're in a different state with different laws, you have to not only survive the federal challenges, you've got to survive your state challenges. So you've got it because these all come out of the general assemblies in the state sense, so you have to survive that first. In this court and in this court, I mean, that's why it's in the circuit court, you know, Tayswell County is saying, listen, this is violating our state statutes and our state constitution, this is not about the US constitution, this is not about the federal law, this is not about in, you know,

in joining these across the country, this is about the Commonwealth of Virginia, you did it wrong, and this idea again, temporarily adopting new congressional districts to restore fairness in the upcoming elections, does that really tell voters what they're voting on and this judge said no.

I want to hear from you, what are your thoughts on this, we will be taking some calls in the next segment, we got also special guest joining us, and we'll talk a little bit more about Iran, some things also happened overnight, some big changes, once again, some statements from President Trump, we want to hear from you on all those topics, 1-800-6-8-4-31-10 will be right back with more on secular.

“If you are in the state of Virginia, we'd love to hear from you as well, give me a call, 1-800-6-8-4-31-10 to the Commonwealth.”

I mean, we lived there, so I feel like I can go either way, but when you're talking generally to a 50-state plus the world audience, I'm trying to be a state law in the Commonwealth.

And if you follow the rules of your state, and you're the party in charge, but you've got to still do things right, and it starts off with getting the dates right. When do you have to put this before voters, how far to advance the election usually is, I'd say most laws in the states around the country are going to have some timing requirements, so you've got to have so much time for this language to be available, so that groups like ours and others and news organizations can even partisan groups can explain to voters what they're voting on, then you have sometimes the language gets challenged in court before you even get a vote, we've been part of those cases before.

Where the language was so vague that you could not clearly expect a voter to understand what they were casting a vote on whether it's said yes or no, so that was something again, that is big.

“I'd say here the next part that is, I think, key, Virginia move their primaries to August, so there's time, and I know that it feels like we're quickly getting it, but the legal system, though usually is a turtle's.”

But we have to like explain to people because when it comes to election law, they move. ACL J cases that sometimes take years, two years, three years, five years, we're still talking about some of these cases for years and years in years to come.

The court system isn't the same based on every case, there's an understanding that this one has to be determined in a very quick amount of time.

Well, and once again, we look at some of these reasons this judge went ahead and said, hey, we are declaring that it is void this vote because of rules and and right things within the law and constitution, one of them goes back to something Jordan brought up on the day of the vote earlier this week when he's even read the question that was being presented. And and I'm going to read the question and also this is what the the judge said in it is that house bill 1384 violates submission clause of Virginia Constitution Article 12 section one because the ballot language proposed submits to the voters a flagrantly flagrantly misleading question to the voters and because the ballot language did not accurately describe the proposed amendment as it was passed by the general assembly.

“Here's what that language was that this judge called flagrantly misleading and did not accurately describe it.”

Should the Constitution of Virginia be amended to allow the general assembly to temporarily adopt new congressional districts to restore fairness in the upcoming elections while ensuring Virginia standard redistricting process resumes for all future redistricting. Sure redistricting after the 2030 census now if you had done zero research had no idea you were just going into vote and it's a ballot initiative you have no idea what you're voting for. It doesn't say to shift these seats to be more weighted it says all nothing almost how it would be so generic language of and also to restore fairness in upcoming elections is so vague are they meeting Virginia elections national elections it is so vague and that is why this judge says that it is misleading and doesn't accurately describe the proposed amendment what the proposed amendment is you're going to allow.

The state's been voting 70% democrat why do we have this six five make up even that alone be a partisan argument they can't because you know why they're former governors Republican I mean Republicans win the state democrats win the state.

“Now they've got a democrat governor and not in a democratic age you say oh we're going to switch it to and I think you know the overreach here versus even if you look at what Texas is doing in California.”

It's not nearly what what Virginia tried to do here which is to go six five lean democrat makes sense if it means 52% democrat.

It's a state that has been growing blue especially northern Virginia because of the bureaucracy that lives there and in the government officials that live there for the federal government.

“But but to say that you were going to go from six five to ten one in a state that is still a purple state a state where republican can still become the leader of the state the governor of the state.”

And the next time a democrat can win it that's the definition of a purple state not a state governed by in Congress represented by basically one single party then will shove all the Republicans into this one district in a way they did it. Which was is this kind of like a fan and it's if you if you can't so if you look at it they all emanate out of northern Virginia all these districts start out in northern Virginia they go this way that way this way that way so that you've got the the base of voters are the northern Virginia voters there's plenty of them to spread out amongst the districts so they elect all the democrats and then in one district will shove the Republicans in the rural areas.

And when you look at what you brought up taxes and and while people may even have genuine criticism of what they didn't taxes but when you are specifically saying we are only going to do this just to completely change this is to make it not representative.

And then you look at the election for president it's pretty close to representative of the state of Texas when you take.

And then you read publicans and how many democrats now they are trying to move this a little bit but you know when it's not it's not taking out of the 38 seats making it 37 to one everyone would look at that and be like now this is not fair. The Republicans here look at this is we're going to lose in court right we might be able to pass this and we're going to we're going to spend all this money to get people to vote to go out and vote in a special election day that they don't usually vote on so we're going to have to do that so it's been millions do that and then we're going to win the court and lose.

“Well you got about a minute and a half I think let's quickly take James and Virginia is the LJ champion some of the gives on a monthly basis want to make sure champions don't have to hold that long go ahead.”

It was just that the way the letter to the language in the bill is stated contains a lawsuit within the text and it's not only false but it's deceptive and so yeah I don't understand how they can formulate that bill without. So that's what courts are now looking at do I feel you have a judge I'm sure there were challenges before people maybe not following us closely that we're getting there were this was the Virginia Supreme Court said no let people vote then we're going to take a look at it so you can try some of this is timing purposes based on when you have election day set and again goes down to state election law so every state's difference hard to make general rules about this here's one though you can take is the language.

It's always going to be challenging court and the breakdown of of how you redistrict is almost always going to be challenging court and I think this one has two big problems there along with all of the procedures they didn't follow in the commonwealth Virginia. All right 10 seconds left we got a second half hour coming up join us on aclj.org youtube rumble have a good podcast we're there later on archive again at aclj.org we were right back in less than a minute.

Keeping you informed and engage now more than ever this is secular and now you're host looking secular welcome back second half hour secular happening right now.

We got special guest joining us a little bit later in the show but because of that we're going to be taking your calls a little earlier than normal so 1 800 6 8 4 31 10 go get yourself on hold if you're on hold we'll get to you because in this segment and the next segment we're going to be taking all the calls we can again at 1 800 6 8 4 31 10

Of course we felt it was unfair and it looks like a judge did as well shuts down the certification of this of course some of you are commenting and this is what we fight against me like a judge again involvement of the people are voting. But of course it was a very tight election and we even had people calling in saying I wasn't sure which way I was even supposed to vote because the way it was worded even though they were told going even though they knew they were supposed to vote no going in. Right was the wild part they knew they're going to vote they were going to vote no and they read it and said is this the thing I was being taught if they were telling me.

I mean I do a lot of us have gone into the ballot box and felt that way and sat there and re-read some sort of plan five or six times and I am sure.

I have voted the wrong way occasionally just based on the fact that these all always seem to be written in a way that is confusing for the American people for the voter.

“And when you honestly think about what you're actually voting on in Virginia you're not voting on the new congressional map.”

Now you're voting on a congressional on the ability for them to implement a congressional map that the general assembly passed. So it's even your one step removed from the process they already passed the map so it's not even like the language has to be descriptive of that map.

It is just saying yeah we're going to allow the general assembly to change the rules and do something different for this very limited period of time.

But they also throw in that language it says it's for fairness it's for all this and that the judge called out said it's flagrantly misleading and did not accurately describe the proposed amendment as it was passed by the general assembly.

“That's problematic no matter what state you're in no matter what your ballot initiative is that's also what always catches up people on their ballot initiatives.”

When the language is not precise enough that a voter can actually know what they're voting on it is deceptive in nature to try and get a little bit of a biased outcome where people who have no idea what is on the ballot go in there and say. Yeah, oh this sounds good this sounds good not knowing that it's actually going to take your congressional map from six to five to ten to one let's go to Nick and Virginia online one he did vote let's hear what he had to say about the experience Nick go ahead. Hey, I hired by the yeah I wasn't voted and it was very very misleading very confusing it wasn't clear at all yeah yeah this is the probably the one of the top reasons other than the procedural violations with the state law and some of the state constitution that this is in jeopardy now so quickly in the courts.

You know a day and a half after passage and that is because of how many times we've heard people like Nick and even like us admit there's some words here that as someone bit and I've been doing this along. I see fairness I hear Democrats okay so like I see because why you temporarily changing. My voting districts for two district for basically. Two rounds of the house and maybe one round of the US in it. You're doing it for fairness that sounds like something that isn't. Conservant Republican and clear to the people that likes the sounds nice and will it not be fair later you go back to unfair obviously right it won't be because they say listen we're going to have to change to get anyway so if you don't like this one well we're going to have to go back anyways and make something that's a little bit more.

Representative of the actual people of Virginia so I think here is where you've got a proper situation where voters can be misled languages unclear policies and procedures were not followed and so courts are the appropriate place for action I'll tell you the ACLJ right now and our attorneys are looking at the right case to intervene and as we speak they may have already decided on that even by this morning.

“But I know that as active conversation going on last night late into the evening and early this morning as these cases came out so I do not cannot that the ACLJ will be involved here in a variety of ways legally.”

That being said we will be taking them calls and know a lot of you have asked about specifically how the ACLJ will get involved.

Next segment we're taking your calls and then we're going to special guest joining us in the state of Virginia. Give us call 1-800-6-8-4-31-10. [Music] Welcome back to Sec yellow phone lines our jam right now which is good because we're taking more calls throughout this segment a lot of you calling from the state of Virginia some of you. It looks like more than half the calls are from Virginia but we're actually going to start off with a call from North Carolina because Martin is an ACLJ champion and even on days when I called for Virginia to call.

J.B. is getting bumped to the top front of the line Martin go ahead.

The word disenfranchised has been used a lot with the save act and of redistricting in Texas and California Florida and all over the place despite all the other legal challenges in Virginia of the vote. Would not the state and/or the federal supreme court not allow things there was almost 49% of the people in Virginia that say no that they could not disenfranchise 49% of the people and just say we don't care how you feel.

“I think that what you have to look at Martin is every state so you can't look at these and go national even though they involve obviously we're talking about federal congressional districts.”

Inside those federal congressional districts it also involves you know all the state representation delegates there and and everything else you've got down to the local level.

So you have to look at the state law the state constitution and the U.S. constitution and you kind of look at all three and initially the charge the the easiest ways in the court are looking at the state code state law. The state constitution violations there and who this end up in federal court it could but it doesn't have to so voting issues can end up obviously in the federal courts and and they often have. Some of that has we've seen less impact of that as the voting rights act has been pulled back because it was in place for so many decades in the automatic reviews by federal courts have been taken back but.

The same time yes there are ways but again to kind of compile them all no Texas is got has different rules about this in California then Virginia and they they're well all have to be handled separately as cases because they all have different state laws.

All right thank you Martin for calling and appreciate it.

Let's go to Eric and Virginia you actually had a pretty good experience voting Eric go ahead. Hi yeah thanks for the coverage by the way I definitely appreciate you guys going over you know what we definitely recognize is something that was not right definitely misleading. Going to the polls made sure to bring the whole family and honestly the you know news twisting it as they did.

People not really know and how to vote.

Going out to the poll you know we walk up and we see a sign that says vote for fairness and say yes right beside it. And it's a really good way to make sure everybody knew what they were really voting for was a sign that said no and showed what the actual districts would look like. And just how how what incorrect that question really was. So at least someone was out there showing the the counter. I think Eric I think what it does hinge on and Jordan we can talk about this as well is that.

“And that's what happened at the polling place at your specific polling place. But that isn't what was required.”

Nor is it what the language did so the case may be able to to there may have been places that were extremely helpful in trying to showcase this. But at the end of the day the language did not reflect that and that is where the legal challenge can take place and and also as you look at this we we said it could get to the state Supreme. To the state Supreme Court we know there is a case Monday this one could get there very quick and what happens after the state Supreme Court rules. Either the attorney general of Virginia or the RNC who has initiated this challenge will be appealing to the Supreme Court of the United States in one way or another the Supreme Court will have a chance to decide if they went away in on this if they see away if they believe they need to weigh in on this or not.

“I think that these are again. While we've had the early success in courts remember we're talking about courts very hard to predict even even in like Virginia where they do like to follow the rules.”

In fact the court's going to come down when now you've got both a general assembly vote a redistricting the map put forward the general assembly vote any constitutional amendment vote by the people you know how strictly are they going to hold that to the fire of the state the state law and then the state of constitution I think of course much tougher not to hold it to the state constitution but again the state code because they're saying this is a temporary move to make the map. We know this is all politics. We know they want to admit that but we all we know that this is politics in reaction to Texas first then California but as we explained those were much more minor moves when you look at the size of the states in the amount of districts they had.

The state of the republicans are going to be a big part of the republicans democrat make up there Virginia which is still a very purple state and they were public government just leaving democratic government just coming in for the first couple of months with their democrat age he was controversial race and a state that had six democrats in the in the house and five republicans and you know what it wasn't easy for all those five republicans to get elected by the way those are some close races and so the question is.

Let's go ahead and go to Virginia let's go to Luke online one Luke go ahead.

“I just wanted to say that the current map six five was drawn up by a bipartisan committee of republicans and democrats you don't hear that mentioned very often and the fairness is on a national level.”

I asked the workers that a booth white as I was carrying my boat no sign. I said why he doing this to us and they said well because we have to get back at. And if you listen to obama commercial on the weekend he said the same thing so he said oh we need to level the playing field. So that point exactly where you say that it was the independent commission that drew these maps that is because that is already in the constitution of Virginia the people of Virginia voted on that now. This is trying to say should the constitution of Virginia be amended to allow the general assembly to temporarily adopt new congressional districts to restore fairness and yes it leaves out just it does it say should the constitution be amended to allow the general assembly to bypass the bipartisan district in commission.

Let me a more accurate representation says now just temporarily adopt new congressional districts and it says and then we go back to Virginia standard district process for all future redistricting after 2030.

“It doesn't tell you the key part of there is that they actually in the state voted for fairness.”

What they would consider fairness a bipartisan commission and now they're being asked to do away with that just for a minute just temporarily.

All right, I want to continue on try to get to a couple more calls before we go to break. Let's go to Doug does not hold for a while Doug and Colorado go ahead. Yeah, guys, hear me. Yep, go ahead. Yeah, I do understand this is a very objective thing within a given census to send your period from my understanding you can read district once within that period I believe correct me if I'm wrong and it has to do with the movement of people within one state to another.

And then the population that grew in a certain area, that's where you can then read district and cut the lines there it's a very objective thing. This this bill is a very essence of jerrymandering. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Hard people to grasp. They've almost admitted it.

I mean, all of the ads all of that. No one is hiding the truth.

“If it Barack Obama is telling you to vote yes on one way you can probably assume that he hasn't done a lot of political work right?”

Didn't he hasn't been there out there if he's coming out to say this is to get back at these other states these Republicans. Okay, this is purely political and you're right the idea of congressional districts.

It's always going to have politics at play because there's Republicans on the and they have to kind of come together the Democrats Republicans and decide.

And one is going to be the majority party in a state that usually has a more influence. So you'll see that it's really about the population how many people and you try to make up it is kind of clear make up of who the people are income levels. The background so that they're similarly situated so that people who are similarly situated have a voice that isn't totally. Taking a part by these congressional maps and lines on the take line five real quick Jason and Virginia because this is going to lead into our next segment very well Jason go ahead.

Yes, so I know you already touched on this but as us conservators or independents that are being silence. How are if Virginia Supreme Court does not overturn this would it be or the moved federally and would they be able to enact something to where we're not silent. All right Jason, I want you to hold on you can either stay on hold or you can listen on air because we're going to address all of this in the next segment. Because we got a very special guest joining us coming up that's right the former attorney general of the Commonwealth of Virginia can coach and Ellie is going to be joining us in the next segment stick around you do not want to miss this that's right.

So Jason stay on hold we will do our best to get to some more calls also we're going to have an extended conversation with the former AG so just we'll do our best to get to more calls but we will see 1 800 6 8 4 31 10 despite me the last time though I get to tell you for today. The double the difference drive continues through the end of the month. I want your support right now if you have a way to financially support and you're you've been with us for a while. Maybe you watch this show every day. Maybe you support our legal efforts.

It's because you donate at ACLJ.org we'll be back in just one minute stay tuned.

Welcome back to secular a lot of you are calling in right now. We will see if we have time to get I don't want to make any promises to anyone that is on hold.

“Right now now there was a question that came in earlier we're going to address that here in this segment so if you want to stay on hold.”

Feel free we got eight and a half minutes left we'll do our best but no guarantees here well that's because we're very special guest joining us.

That's right we are joined by Ken Kuchanelli who was the 46th attorney general of Virginia.

Mr. Attorney General when you see what happened how quickly that this circuit court was able to jump in on this redistricting and block the certification. How quickly do you think this will go through the court system in the state you know them well. Very fast this is a pure state constitutional issue to address the question of the last caller. It's all decided under the Virginia State Constitution they are very sensitive to the fact that there's an election and unfortunately the last time the Democrats had three way control house Senate and governor they gave us these 45 day elections.

Now amusingly they may get hoisted on that little pitard here in this case, but it also means that the August primaries voting starts in early July which means that campaigning and candidate qualification has to happen.

It has to happen before that with you know some degree of comfort before that so the courts know they're in a hurry we saw the judge and taz will you know rush.

“On the day after the referendum to get his order in place the Virginia Supreme Court is moving with as much speed as I ever remember seeing it move they have briefing today they have oral argument on Monday on the two constitutional challenges.”

In state constitutional challenges that are already in front of the court both of them very strong challenges and the outside is going to have a very difficult time holding on to this win. How quick can can this move through we get a lot of calls about that through you said very quick through the Virginia Supreme Court and and you see that's going to have a very difficult time there is there any chance that that other court like that we're going to have to look at federal challenges and try to try and stop this such a partisan move which would disenfranchise so many Virginia voters.

The federal courts the Supreme Court has made clear that partisanship isn't really a basis to overturn anything under federal law so this is really a state law fight in my view. There are some questions about getting rid of minority majority districts and how that would play out in the voting rights act the Supreme Court is considering a voting rights act case right now that could have a big impact on that question.

“But the Democrats in the Virginia General Assembly have jammed through with no concern for the constitutional rules.”

This referendum and now they want to say oh look the vote of the people the will of the people well when they lose on anyone or all four of these constitutional challenges the only people they'll have to blame is themselves. When you look at what this judge out of Taswell County put out you mentioned it's not just as if it's one or two violations which invalidate what was put forward but it's a whole page and half two pages of specific issues that violated either Virginia code or the Virginia Constitution.

With the makeup of the Supreme Court of the state of the Commonwealth what not getting into the policy side but because it is so in in your face of violating both constitutional and statutory issues. Does it seem like that is something the court would likely invalidate it's obviously hard to ever predict what a higher court would do but do you think that the side that wants this invalidated. Once this invalidated should feel positive about the direction of this. Yeah if I were a betting man I would bet on this getting invalidated in the Virginia Supreme Court and I would take odds to do it.

The the brazenness of the violations is such that this could be a 7-0 ruling. The court is split for three Republican Democrat but it doesn't act as a particularly political court as a general matter like you see Wisconsin or Pennsylvania or Montana.

I think they're going to take this straight up on the law and as I said I think that some of the violations of Democrats have pulled off here are so brazen that the most partisan judges would blush at ruling in their favor here. Yeah I kind of a final question could you see this completely backfiring on Democrats not just not just getting the amendment but through but in whatever congressional districts ultimately people are choosing primary candidates for in August and really July when early voting starts to be could this up and kind of the Democrats hold it right now is one seat but backfire and kind of encourage Virginia conservatives and Republicans to show up in voting and say hey we can make a difference we can win these races.

So I definitely think there could be some of that motivation but they're not stupid in how they've drawn this map and we haven't talked about that challenge Virginia has a compactness and continuity provision of its constitution and if this map doesn't violate that then no map does.

“So we'll see but in a midterm with a Republican president and look president Trump's good at many things but one of those things is motivating his opponent.”

And he really puts them in the eye and they show up so it makes midterms really tough so I don't I don't see upsetting the expectations if this map were to stay in place.

At the same time I do think the five Republican incumbents there now could all hold their seats under the current map even Jen Kiggens down there not conservative but but in the second district of Virginia Beach you all are familiar with that territory and it's we're public enough and by the way it defeated it voted against the referendum down in that part of Virginia so that's a good sign as well. All right thank you so much for joining us today we are wrapping up today's show we are running out of time and thank you so much for spending some time with our audience I think it's important to always hear from great officials and people who have had this kind of experience.

It's kind of followed along see where this goes next I think it's going to happen pretty quickly yeah absolutely well that's going to do it for today but we do have one minute left. I want to encourage you in that minute we haven't spent a lot of time talking about our double the difference drive today.

“We spent a lot of time getting into the weeds and what's happening in the state in the Commonwealth of Virginia.”

But we're going to keep moving on we're having a lot new content tomorrow and of course next week but right now this is one of the last days we are really towards the in here pushing towards the final week of the double the difference drive. Next week of a specialty week coming for you this is really the last of the traditional double the difference drive you can be a part of it today any gift is double if you never heard me explain it before that is because other ACLJ members ACLJ champions ACLJ donors say hey during this month I will unlock a pledge and collectively that pledge rate could be very very high so if we ever hit that limit I'll let you know but right now.

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