Hey True Crime Besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist League.
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of
“Serialist League with me or host Annie Elise and Happy Thursday.”
It has been a long week so far, especially if you are a Nick's fan, then you saw what went down earlier this week and hasn't been good.
We're still good, but it hasn't been the best, but no, we're finally at Thursday, so the
weekend is almost here, a lot of people wrapping up the end of the school year. I know we have like school activities with my kids literally every single day this week, which has been insane, but it's just an indicator that summer is almost here. So for those of you who might be brand new and listening to this podcast for the first time, let me just give you a quick little rundown of what it is I do over here.
On Mondays, we do the full deep dive into a case, go down the rabbit hole, give you all the details, all the social media background, all the theories, everything that rolls into that case. And on Thursdays, like today, headline highlights where we go through everything that's happening this week in the true crime universe, whether that's brand new cases, updates and cases that we've covered before, you know, new ones that people are talking about, whatever
it may be.
So if you're joining today for the first time, it is our headline highlights segment
two day. And there is a lot to go over. We have got a lot of new cases, but also revisiting a couple of core cases that we have covered together over the last year or actually, I guess more than the last year.
“Now that I think about it, but lots of division out there, lots of controversy out there.”
And so I just am going to ask everybody to be kind to one another in the comments section because I know there are a lot of hot takes and strong opinions with a lot of these cases that we'll be talking about today. Also, exciting news, crime contickets for 2027 are officially on sale, and some of them actually the early bird tickets they're already sold out.
So and crime contests in Orlando, next year it's September 2027, but I would secure your tickets now before they all sell out. It's for the whole weekend and you can get a discount, use my promo code Annie Elise. You'll get hooked up, but tickets are going very fast.
They always do, so now is the time to snag them, and that's for September 27 in Orlando.
So if you had FOMO through all the crime con conversation last week or through all my social media stuff, this is your sign to go. So let's start jumping right in. Before we get into the first case update, please welcome back Amy O'Brien, the third. I'm third.
I'm scared. I'm scared. The fifth sister's. I don't know, but I don't know. I was going to do the middle name, but then I changed my mind last minute as a last minute
decision. Yeah, I felt like it needed to be something formal, and the third just came naturally. I mean, I do give your children middle names, like Lou, maybe it should be the third. Are you the third? No.
I don't know. I don't know. Welcome back. Thanks. Okay, so we're going to get into this first update, and it's this, you know, scumbag that I hate
too, talk about, but love to hate on, and that is Josh Dugger, because we have an update of sorts involving dirty ass, Josh Dugger.
“Now, I'm sure we all collectively know who this scumbag is, right?”
But if you need a refresher, Josh Dugger is part of the family of 19 kids and counting. He was sentenced back in May of 2022 to more than 12 years in federal prison after being convicted of receiving CSAM material. And I've said it before, but if you don't know what CSAM stands for, you can Google it, but don't, well, actually don't do that, because I don't want any CSAM material to come up,
not that it would. It's probably all on the dark web, but it is some of the most explicit, child material that exists. Now, according to the evidence that was presented at trial, Josh repeatedly download and viewed CSAM material, including the absolute worst of the worst file that exists out there.
And in addition to his 151 month prison sentence, he was also ordered to serve 20 years of supervised release once he was released. Also he would have to register on the list, the registry, and pay about $50,000 in fines. So fast forward a little bit to July of 2025. Josh had filed a motion asking the court to vacate or basically throw out his conviction.
He argued that his constitutional rights had been violated, and that his conv...
be overturned because of that.
However, there was a pretty major problem with all of that. The filing was completely late. And I don't mean just a little bit late, like Mackenzie Schirollo, where it was one day late for the appeal, and we talked about that last month, last week, all of the things. But his filing was more than a month late.
However, even still, Josh tried to argue that it should still count because of what is called the, quote, prison mailbox rule. Now, essentially, that rule says that if an inmate places legal documents into a prison mailing system on or before the filing deadline, then the documents can still be considered as being filed on time, even if they arrive later, which I have to say really does make sense
in theory, because I don't know if you've ever corresponded with anybody in jail or anything
“like that, the mail system is incredibly slow moving, because I think just not only the”
processes, but also they have to like vet all of the mail. They have to open it. They have to check it. They check for contraband, all of the things. So while I hate Josh, I do agree that that rule should be in place because if you are
filing something before the deadline, you're doing everything in your best efforts to get, you know, to follow protocol, but if the system itself is broken, how do you fight that?
Ultimately, though, in his case, the judge didn't buy his explanation for when and how
the paperwork was supposedly mailed in, so maybe he like lied and said he did submit it before the date, but he really didn't, but he was using it as an excuse, who really knows. But the judge said that Josh's testimony about the whole situation was not credible, which the wording that the judge used was also pretty serious and I'll read this for you. The judge wrote, "The court can grant Mr. Dugger one coincidence.
Perhaps even two or three odd happenstances," but Mr. Dugger is asking the court to believe something akin to a magic bullet theory, as sequential chain of events that defies common sense.
“Collectively, this chain of events where Murphy's law was lurking at every turn is simply”
not credible, basically calling him a fucking loser liar. So ultimately, the judge denied the motion and Josh's conviction stood, and unless something is dramatically going to change in the future, he still is expected to remain in federal prison until 233.
However, that's not the only reason that his name has been making headlines recently.
Because on May 29, Josh was suddenly and very quietly transferred from the federal prison in central Texas where he has spent the last four years. He was transferred to the federal medical center in Fort Worth, Texas. Now, this is where things start to get a little bit interesting, because the federal medical center isn't a typical prison.
It's essentially a secure federal facility that focuses on providing inmates with medical, dental, and mental health care services. The Bureau of Prisons confirmed the transfer. They said that it did happen, but they said that they couldn't give any more information about why it happened, and they cited privacy reasons for that, also safety and security concerns.
“Which I guess it is important to note that a transfer like this could mean a lot of different”
things. There are plenty of reasons why an inmate could be moved to a medical facility. We all know that, right? It could be that they are having mental health struggles, that they were in a fight, that they needed an infected root canal, who the hell really knows.
But right now, nobody outside of the Bureau of Prisons seems to know exactly why he was transferred. Now, what's raising eyebrows about this, though, is that even Josh's own attorney said that he had no idea that this transfer was coming. According to his attorney, the Bureau of Prisons doesn't give anyone any sort of advanced
notice of prisoner transfers. He also said that his office was actively trying to verify Josh's well-being after learning about this move. Did he, did somebody try to, you know, kill him in prison was he severely injured, is he lying saying he was having a mental break because now we know that his, you know, overturned
of the conviction didn't go through what's really going on here. Maybe even more interesting and eyebrow-raising. The attorneys said that the last time that he had spoken with Josh was about three weeks before the transfer, and at that time, Josh was fine. He wasn't sick.
He was alive and well. Things were good. So it did seem like it came out of nowhere. So naturally, this whole transfer has led it to a lot of speculation online about what prompted the move.
However, as of right now, there are still no public answers. The bureau of prisons isn't talking, Josh's legal team says that they were caught off guard and they don't really have much information, and there's no official explanation that has been released. So for now, the transfer remains a complete mystery.
However, has attempted to overturn his conviction, that has officially failed, which hallelujah, I'm not surprised, rotten hell, rotten prison, he's staying behind bars for the foreseeable future.
Great, couldn't happen to a better guy.
So bye-bye, Josh Ducker.
“I mean, why would they give him any kind of special treatment?”
I don't think it's special treatment. I think it's like you receive medical help and all of that. Like if he's injured, he would go to the medical facility to get, like you say he has broken limbs or got the shit kicked out of him by a group or, I don't know, it just kind of sounds like they're like protecting him in a way by transferring him.
Maybe, or they don't, or if like he was hurt, if he was hurt, if he was hurt, if he was hurt, maybe, good, but maybe they're trying to protect like his privacy and the security. So he doesn't get hurt by other people in the medical center, and often I think people can. But again, who cares?
Who cares? Honestly. Okay, so this next update is one that has people very divided, because after months
of questions, authorities have finally released what they say happened to influencer Ashley
“Janae, whose legal name was Ashley Robinson.”
So guys, I covered this case back in April, but let's just do a quick recap in case you're not familiar, Ashley was a 31-year-old lifestyle influencer with nearly 90,000 followers. And back in April, she traveled to Zanzibar with her fiance, Joan McCann, to celebrate her birthday, and she was super excited for this trip. And while they were there, Joe proposed during a safari, and from the outside looking
in, it looked like they were having the absolute trip of a lifetime. But then just six days after getting engaged, everything changed. In April, ninth, Ashley was found unresponsive at the resort where they were staying and was later pronounced dead. Early reports say that she and Joe had gotten into some sort of argument shortly before
her death, and had actually even been staying in separate villas. Joe later told investigators that he went to Ashley's room not mourning with a security guard to check on her, and that's when he found her hanging from a door. And from the beginning, the case has gotten a lot of attention, because Ashley's family said that circumstances did not make sense to them at all.
They described her as happy, and excited about her engagement, excited about the future. And they pushed for answers while authorities investigated what happened. And if you remember, there were some reports that the fiance had waited to reach out to the family, and that there was even maybe some speculation that he had talked to them after she had died, but then hadn't mentioned anything to her, while she was in the hospital
which was strange.
And now, while two months later, we finally have the official findings.
On June 4th, police in Zanzabar announced that their investigation concluded Ashley had died by suicide as a result of what they described as mental distress. They said her cause of death was cerebral, hapoxy, caused by strangulation and suffocation. And according to investigators, they reviewed witness statements, messages between Ashley and Joe, and other evidence from her phone, and they said that all of that pointed
to Ashley experiencing significant emotional distress before her death, and they found no evidence that anyone else was involved.
“But then, just a few days later, another detail came in, and that's what honestly shocked”
a lot of people following the case. Because one of the biggest reasons people questioned the whole suicide ruling was that, at least, publicly, Ashley seemed genuinely happy. She was celebrating her engagement, posting about the trip, making plans for the future, nothing that would make people think that she was struggling to that extent.
But according to the assistant director of criminal investigations, investigators found evidence on Ashley's phone that painted a very different picture behind the scenes. During a press conference, he said they found a chat GPT search from about a month before her death that they believed did show suicidal intent. According to him, the question was, "How much volume would kill me?"
And he told reporters that investigators interpreted the search as Ashley trying to find out how many pills it would take to end her life. Authorities also say they found farewell messages on her phone, along with other communications that they believe clearly showed that she was struggling with depression. Now despite all of that, Ashley's family is still not convinced.
They've openly challenged that determination of her death, and continued to question the investigation. Something they've specifically pointed to is Joe's actions after Ashley died, alleging that he waited around 11 hours before notifying them about her death. Her sister has also spoken out publicly, saying that suicide would be completely out of
character for Ashley. She described her as a vibrant, positive person and said that the family still has serious questions about what really happened in those final hours of her life. So as of right now, authorities say the investigation is done and that the evidence supports their conclusion, but Ashley's family clearly disagrees with that and are still questioning
that. So we'll see if there's any more information that comes out. Okay.
I try not to put the tin foil hat on too much, but I remember when you first talked about
This case, there were a lot of red flags that like they got engaged, the peop...
resort heard them fighting, then to your point, he waited to notify the family, and I was
“like, I don't know, something feels weird.”
We've heard about things like this in the past, where couples fight even after an engagement there's either jealousy sparked or something like that. I forget which case it was, but one guy where he took the actual lid of the toilet tank and like beat her and then he fled and like to another island, like swam, whatever the hell.
So when I first heard about this update, which I hadn't looked into it, nearly to the degree
you did, I was like, okay, maybe she was struggling with mental health. And now that you're breaking it down, I'm not so convinced. You're not? No, because first of all, I get it. People who have self-harm ideations, it's not like there's only one singular method that
they would use to end their life, but just because she searched in chat GPT, how much valiant would kill me, then took her life by hanging herself from a door. I get that there's still ideation within that, but also like, not that I've outright ever Googled or searched on chat GPT, like how much I'm going to kill me, like how much is
safe to take, or like if I do this, will it kill me?
Like things like that, like have nothing to do with ideation. And then coupling that with her goodbye text, how many cases have we covered where people have sent text messages from the person's phone trying to cover shit up? Like, which again, I'm not trying to get to tinfoil hat here, if I'm not saying he's involved, I'm not trying to say Joe's involved, but there still is the shadiness that you
“cannot ignore, that he waited 11 hours to notify her family, that I believe if I remember”
incorrectly, he also was very emotionally detached during all of that, and like didn't follow up with the family, but after, and I don't remember if you went to the funeral or not, there was something weird, and like they fought that night, they stayed in separate villas, which yeah, maybe that would send her into a mental health crisis, but like, I'm not convinced. I have a different take. Okay. So when we first covered it, I also thought he was suspicious.
I thought all the red flags were there. Like, if you did speak with her family while she's in the hospital, you're not telling them why, then she passes, you're not not notifying them. I believe it was the resort that notified them. So all of that red flags, but now seeing this, and also back when we covered it, I don't believe they had mentioned that she was hanging. No, they didn't. So that to me was like a huge new detail, and that's kind of, that changes things,
a lot, because that's an answer, and if there was a witness to that, I feel like, again, I mean, a witness to the discovery of it. Can I say this? Sandra Birchmore. Okay. Sandra Birchmore also found hanging from the door knob because of Matthew Farwell. Okay.
I don't have like, I'm not trying to get credit. I don't. I don't know what the answer is,
but I don't think that it, I don't think it's as obvious anymore. I also think people do crazy things in like traumatic situations. And so if he did know something was wrong and didn't communicate that to the parents and was trying to figure this all out. I'm like, again, if this was the way that the police have determined it, then I would imagine you're in shock. Like, we just got in this fight, and you took it too far, and now I'm like learning that you had
all these ideations. Maybe he did know about it, and it just doesn't want to tell her parents till he can make sense of it. So like, from that perspective, that part of it kind of makes sense. And even the fighting and staying in different levels, I mean, how many people do we know that have been in fights with their significant other, like, you know, or hurt of it, and then they like, not enough to stay separately. I don't know anyone that comes to mind. I mean, I feel like
back, not like, in recent times with, like, close friends of ours. And like, that's great. No, it's maybe not the night of your, your of your engagement, but like, on vacation, if alcohol is in, but I don't know. I know. I don't think it's out that, that's like the,
“I think it could happen, right? That's by really 100%. I just am not convinced enough by the”
chat GPT search and the farewell messages on her phone. That's not convincing enough to me. You don't think the immense of investigation would uncover the timelines and like be able to look in the forensics of the phone. Maybe, but I think they would have sent that. And I think they would have cited more details of, like, why they believe, which, I mean, I get it. Ockham's razor usually it's, like, the simplest explanation is the correct one. I'm just saying, like, and maybe I'm
jaded because of so many, like, corrupt cases, I've covered with, like, again, Xanderbort, Birchmore, and people sending text messages from their dead spouse's phone trying to cover up their stuff. It's like, to where I'm like, ugh, I don't get it. And if her family is saying they knew her so well, which I get it, family can be in denial. Sometimes I'm just like, I'm teetering on the fence. I don't know. When she was in an influencer, so I'm sure, and I don't know, but I would
imagine, you know, people don't expect that. So they all, she was happy. She had plans for a future. She's excited, but we all know behind closed doors, things could be very different. Yeah, but let us know what you think. Yeah, I'm curious. Like I said at the top of this episode,
People are divided and by people.
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“going back back to Boston, Boston, and honestly just when you think that this case cannot”
possibly get any messier, somehow it always does. Proctor gets, you know, put this foot in his mouth
or he now is like being a little pussy and requesting a protective order and like it just gets crazier and crazier and you kind of think to yourself like the audacity of all of these people involved, what on earth were they thinking? Because now, one year after Karen Reed was acquitted of murder in the death of her boyfriend John O'Keefe, she has of course as we all expected, turned around and sued the people who investigated her in the first place, which,
good for her, this investigation was like, "Botch and a horrible from the start." Michael Proctor is disgusting. He deserves everything that's coming his way. We'll get into more of that, but like, ew. Now some of the text messages have come out as part of that lawsuit. And if you
“remember during the trial, there were a couple of messages that we heard about where he was calling”
her a CUNX Tuesday to fellow law enforcement officers. He was talking about the way her ass looked like gross ass things, unprofessional misogynistic and just disgusting. But now, I didn't think you could get any worse. These new text messages. I don't even know what word to use besides, I don't know, shocking, gross, vial. Now before I get into those texts, let's just do a quick rewind. I know everybody in the world probably knows who Karen Reed is at this point. But if you don't,
Back in January of 2022, her boyfriend John O'Keefe was found unresponsive ou...
Canton, Massachusetts after a night out with friends. They had gone bar hopping and then they had gone
“back to this house to participate in like a house party. Prosecutors claimed that the Karen Reed”
had backed her SUV into John, then left him there to die on the ground in a snowstorm. Karen
has always maintained that she did not kill John, and that this was all a cover up that it was
again conspiracy that he was killed inside that house. She even went through two different trials. The first ended in a hung jury, the second she was acquitted. And this became one of the most talked about cases in the entire country, in like all of true crime. There were accusations of police corruption, claims that evidence had been mishandled, which hello, it was, it was like collected in red solo cups and stop and shot bags. There were infamous butt dials that absolutely made
no freaking sense. There were law enforcement officers who dumped their phones after being told that they needed to keep their phones and like preserve them. It was bad. So like I said, last year, Karen was acquitted of the murder charges. But that was not the end of things. Because now she has filed a civil lawsuit against the Massachusetts State Police, also the can police department and the town of Canton. She's claiming that the investigation against her
was driven by bias, misconduct, and a culture that should have never been allowed to exist in
law enforcement in the first place. And a huge part of that lawsuit, it centers around former state trooper, Michael, mother fucking proctor. Now you probably remember him because of the first trial and jurors, like I said, heard some of those text messages about the whack job, the so you next Tuesday, made fun of her unfortunate medical issues, commented on her appearance, even making
“a joke about searching her phone for nude photos. Like that's how gross this guy is. Now,”
at the time, a lot of people, including myself, thought that those messages were bad enough. But apparently, that was just the tip of the iceberg. According to the lawsuit, investigators have now uncovered years and years of text messages that were exchanged between proctor
and former Canton police sergeant Sean Good. And some of the things that are said in
those messages are absolutely unbelievable. The lawsuit claims that the two of them exchanged racist, misogynistic, anti-Semitic, and homophobic messages back and forth with each other on a regular basis. Now, a lot of them, if not most of them, also used racial slurs. They used the R word, you know, you know, and just really gross language referring to non-white or non-cocation people. And in one message cited in the lawsuit, proctor allegedly wrote, quote, "America sucks."
Hitler was really onto something, then the fucking US had to step in and ruin it.
“Like, this is the guy who's protecting our streets. Are you out of your fucking mind?”
The lawsuit also references messages we're Sean, the other investigator, or the sergeant, I should say, where he is being accused of sending texts where he's allegedly joking about Anne Frank and the Holocaust, specifically saying that Anne Frank was a lying cunt. And then there are messages about women specifically, which these messages are honestly so disgusting. I had a hard time getting through all of them. According to the lawsuit, there were conversations that allegedly discussed
sexually assaulting women when they were asleep. The messages referred to women using degrading and vulgar language as well with prosecutors arguing, this was not just locker room talk or dark humor, but way more serious, saying that it reflected a pattern of hostility toward women. And this was happening long before Karen Reed ever became a part of the picture. This is just like embedded in who these guys are. So Karen's legal team is essentially saying, you know, if these are
the people who were responsible for investigating her, how could anyone expect her to receive a fair and unbiased investigation? These are people that are trusted with handling serious crimes, collecting evidence, interviewing witnesses, making decisions that could quite literally change the course of someone's life. And one message that was highlighted in the lawsuit also released it out to me because at one point, Proctor allegedly joked that he was surprised that he even passed
his background check, specifically saying no idea how I passed the background. And this wasn't after a few months on the job. Not as a rookie, not like he's brand new, he's joking around. This was after four years of serving as a police officer. Which really makes you wonder, if someone is openly saying that all of these things in private conversation, questioning how they even passed the background, saying all these slurs, being just a gross human being, what else was being ignored
behind the scenes? And how many warning signs were missed along the way? Now to be clear, this lawsuit, it's full of damning stuff, but it is all allegations. Those allegations still have yet to be litigated in court. However, what makes this such a big issue is that Michael Proctor wasn't just
Some random officer who was involved in this case on the sidelines.
this case in one of the most high profile murder cases in the country. Now Proctor has said that these were private text messages and that they had nothing to do with the actual investigation.
The Karen's attorneys are basically saying that the bias shown in these text messages
has everything to do with the way these investigations go and how these investigators do their jobs. They believe that the texts give a pretty clear picture of his mind set and the way that he viewed
“the people involved in the case. And how he honestly viewed everyone around him, especially women, right?”
Do the matter if it's pertains to the case or not? It's a history to track record. It's your character. They're also claiming that this wasn't some secret that, you know, nobody knew about. According to the lawsuit, there were warning signs, long before any of this came to light. Supervisors either knew what was going on or should have known and just didn't do anything about it. And honestly, these messages are just absolutely vile no matter who you are.
So all of this right now is still very much unfolding. In fact, Proctor was actually supposed to sit for a deposition on Monday of this week where he would have been questioned under oath. But just days before his attorneys filed for an emergency protective order saying that the schedule will date was quote no longer workable. They also submitted sealed records related to a medical
issue, which the judge did briefly pause to review the request, but ultimately didn't grant the
kind of delay that Proctor was hoping for, which would have been indefinite. The judge actually called it extraordinary to file a request for a delay like this just one business day before the deposition was supposed to happen. Now, here's where kind of gets murky and like kind of pisses me off because he did win in a way. The judge ordered that Proctor could have 24 hours and that he would have to testify on Tuesday of this week. However, the other attorneys, because this took all day
on Monday, they once this ruling was made, they're like, we don't have availability. We have other court cases, other things we have going on on Tuesday. So we can't do the deposition now on Tuesday. So because of that, they did settle on pushing it out and his deposition is going to be coming
“later this month. I believe the 25th, if I am remembering correctly. So even though it wasn't”
indefinite like he wanted, he still got the delay that he wanted even though the judge denied the delay, but because he denied it so late in the business day, it did end up working out in his favor, which is kind of annoying. So while we've seen at this point some pretty explosive allegations come out in the lawsuit, there I'm sure will be still a lot more information to come and it is like than ever ending case. So TBD, let's see what happens. We hate Michael Proctor. We hate Michael Proctor.
I can't remember where I saw I consumes. I tried to forget where I saw, but an interview where a guy was trying to like shade Karen Reed and kind of saying like, so how does it feel to be out in public? We're so many people like openly don't believe that you're innocent or something like that. And she was like, actually, did you see what I'm talking about? Is it the one that where she's out kind of by the dumpster trash is going to hurt her? I heard it.
I heard it. But she basically says like, I don't know everywhere I go. People are like, so warm to me. I get discounts everywhere. People are cheering me in the street. So like this stuff comes out. It's it's only helping her in the public eye. Absolutely. And look, I've said through all my coverage on this case. Last year, this year, when I even before, that I don't know what happened that night. I don't know if the snow plow hit him. I don't know if
he was beat up in the basement. What I do know is there was never enough evidence to
“convict her. And I do not believe for a second that he was hit by a car. I think it is way more”
likely that something happened inside that house and that they all tried to collude and cover it up. I just don't think I have enough proof like black and white proof. It's more like speculation based on their own actions. So like, I don't know exactly what happened. But I do not believe that she's guilty and that I do not believe she can be found guilty in a court of law. That being said, too. I did attend the trial last year for a short period of time and sat
directly with her family. And they are some of the nicest human beings on the planet. Her parents are so sweet or her cousins as we care and herself as she's so nice. And I get it. They probably want to be friendly with everybody. But they like her parents like let me ride with them to lunch. They like her mom was like giving me tips on like online shopping stores. I'm like, where do I go? Yooks shout out. Y-O-X. She's like, this is where I get all my stuff. They're just really sweet
people and her dad especially was really sweet. So it's like, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that she's being welcomed with open arms everywhere. She goes and that people are like standing for her. Well, I guess like the silver lining is that she exposed, I mean all the stuff is now coming out. It's just a matter of re-couping so much of the money that we spent on this. Yeah. And like the
Top yeah her reputation.
or somewhere as well too. And like she had this big finance gig. She like was doing so well for
herself. And it's like the rug was ripped out from underneath her and it's been years now going on. So yeah, now that these texts are coming out too and it just shows like, oh, this wasn't a one-off of how these guys are how they operate. This is them. They yeah. And what's the expression like when people show you who they are, believe them. You know, so go Karen Reed. I was just going to say this is the year of Karen Reed. I thought it was summer of Karen. Karen, we're running it back.
Okay, so this next case out of the UK starts with an 18 year old college student who is doing exactly what many other college students do going out with friends, having a good time, and then walking home at the end of the night. Only to have something very tragic happened in the end. The student was Henry Noak, and Henry was a British Polish university student studying accounting and finance at the University of Southampton. And by all accounts, he was thriving there.
His family described him as intelligent, ambitious, hardworking, and someone who is genuinely well-liked by the people around him. He was involved with the university football, which is soccer
here in the U.S. had just wrapped his first semester and really seemed to have his whole future ahead of
him. But then on the night of December 3rd, 2025, Henry had been out with his teammates from that football club before starting the Walkback home through the Portswood area of Southampton. And somewhere around 1130 PM that night, he crossed paths with the 23-year-old man named Vikram Digwa. Now, first glance, this probably seemed like one of those random encounters that happens every day in a college town. But Vikram wasn't just out walking around. He was carrying a knife in a
sheath along with a second, much larger dagger that he later claimed was a religious carepone,
because he was a member of the Nehung sick sector. And at some point, during the encounter,
Henry noticed that larger knife and started taking video of Vikram with his phone. And in the video,
“Henry asked Vikram if he was "a bad man." And honestly, the response he got back is one of those”
details that almost, it seems, too bizarre to even be real, because Vikram looked directly at Henry and said "I am a bad man" before taking Henry's phone for him. What happened next was only witnessed by Henry and Vikram. But whatever unfolded in those moments, ended with Henry being stabbed multiple times. He suffered stab wounds to his legs, along with a fatal wound to the heart from a larger eight inch blade. In the judge in this case, later said after the stabbing, Vikram actually
filmed Henry as he laid in the street. A few minutes later, Vikram's brother arrived on the scene and called 999. During that call, Vikram can be heard in the background saying that he had been attacked "racially" and saying that Henry had pulled off his turban and pulled his hair. You can
“hear some of that 911 call here. Vikram, what did he say, do you know? Vikram, what did he say to you when you attacked you?”
Yeah, no water. No water. So my brother said, he came back to the car to grab my stuff, my food from the car, and he then came to my brother stumbled into my brother in a drunk, in a drunk way, a rage. Y'all, Vik, what did he say to you? What did he say to you? What did he say to you? Oh, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Then I'll tell you, he goes on, who did you say that? I don't know, I don't know. What did he say to you?
What did he say to you? What did he say to you? What did he say to you? What did he say to you? The police need a report coming. Yeah, he was, so they said to me, he's coming. He's my brother. Yeah, so he's done, do you want to speak to my brother? No, you carry on, he stumbled into him and then what did he say, he stumbled into you and what? Yeah, so he walked into him and stumbled into him. He's drunk. I've really said to him, look, yeah, look, man, you're drunk, carry on about your day.
“You're what you need to do. Yeah, right. So basically my brother said, he's stumbled into my brother, my brother's a”
boy and said, look, carry on on the day and then what? Let me do something, you do you think you're, who do you think you are, who do you think you are, who do you think you are to my brother? And then what? And then he goes, oh, oh, you're this, you know, who you think you're about, and I was like, yeah, I'm about an hour. Then he starts to call to me, right? As he's a call to me, I snatched his son. He's then laid a punch on to me. He's pushed me back on my turban's come off. He started and grabbed on my head, so I then grabbed him. I mean, he started pushing me.
He's like, it was waste, he had packed my brother. I said, he said this and he said that. What do you specifically say?
He said to my brother, you're, whatever, I obviously, basically, Vic, Vic, Vi...
sorry, let me ask him Vic, Vic, did he racially say anything to you? Did he racially say anything to you?
“Okay, that's what I needed tonight. And about seven minutes later, police arrived.”
And what happened after that is part of this case that has generated the most attention and controversy. Body cam footage shows officers speaking with Vic Room and several other people who showed up to the scene after the stabbing happened. While Henry was laying on the ground suffering from multiple stab wounds. And throughout this footage, Henry repeatedly told officers that he had been stabbed and that he couldn't breathe. And despite that, officers rolled him onto his side,
handcuffed him behind his back and told him he was under arrest. And as this was all happening and unfolding, Henry can be heard saying, quote, I've been stabbed. One of the officer then responds, I don't think you have mate, which is unbelievable. And a short time later, Henry became unresponsive. Officers called for an ambulance and began CPR, but despite all those efforts, he died at the scene. Vic Room was arrested that same night after being questioned and held for five days,
and then he was ultimately formally charged with murder. Then fast forward to May 28th of this year,
nearly six months after his arrest, a jury found him guilty. He was sentenced to life in prison with a minimum term of 21 years before he can even be considered for parole. Since then, Henry's family has been outspoken about how he was treated during his final moments of his life. His father Mark said, Henry told officers that he could not breathe nine times. He told them he had been stabbed four times. Henry was pulled across gravel, his hands forced behind his back,
and he was placed in handcuffs. Mark said the difference in how Henry was treated compared to how Vic Room was treated was quote unbearable. Hampshire police also made a statement in response. Kind of halfway apologizing for what had happened, but also saying that no matter what they did differently, the outcome would not have changed. The deputy chief constable said, this is a complete tragedy, and I'm sorry that they couldn't save Henry that night, and I'm sorry that Henry was
handcuffed and arrested as he lost consciousness. The pathologist who spoke in court was clear that there was nothing officers could have done to save Henry that night. His wound was deep and internal, the bleeding extensive but internal. Vic Room's parents have also released a statement saying that they are deeply sorry for the pain and suffering that no oc family has had to endure. The statement continued saying, "We would give anything to turn back time,
so the path of both Henry and Vic Room never crossed that night." We cannot change what has
happened. We just hope that no further pain is caused in its name. They also apologize to the sick community saying that their sons actions reflected badly on the community and asking people not to use what happened to create more division or hostility. As of now, the officers who responded that night are now being treated as witnesses in an ongoing investigation by the independent office
“for police conduct. Honestly, this whole case is just awful and I know when we first started talking”
about it, we said that because there's this 18-year-old just doing normal things that every 18-year-old does, walking home, had been hanging out with his friends, and then in just a matter of minutes, out of his control, his life was gone. It's like no matter where people stand on the case,
it's just devastating and such a tragedy. I know you never know what monsters are
lurking on a street, but also the police response, like for him too, it's not that he was complaining of it. He had been stabbed and there was so much chaos at the scene that they didn't hear him or they missed it. I don't think so. He was trying to ask for help, but I don't care if the injuries and the bleeding was internal or not. If he would have been rushed to a hospital, who knows if they could have performed emergency surgery? They could have identified what's going on.
They could have done life-saving measures. But instead, they rolled him on his side, cuffed him, and gasulate him, saying he hadn't been stabbed when he had clearly had. And what did his dad say, that he said he couldn't breathe nine times, yeah. So to say nothing could have been changing the outcome, it's like even if those wounds were internal and deep and maybe could have been fatal, the fact that he couldn't breathe, there could have been
something done in that moment and disgusting. And the nerve of this, A whole, to then say, he was the one attacked. And I know, well, and I know that there is a lot of body cam footage
“out and surveillance footage that has been released. And I believe the dad has also made a statement”
like about how difficult that footage has been to watch, because it's like you're watching the final moments of your trial. It's been illegal for help. The UK is like an uproar over this case.
It's so sad.
there is a lot of division and people are pretty much talking nonstop about it since it first
happened is the case of Austin Metcalf and Carmelo Anthony. Now, as a quick recap for those of you
“who may not remember this or might not have even heard this case before, 17-year-old Austin Metcalf”
was a junior at Memorial High School in Frisco, Texas. Back on April 2, 2025, he was at a district track meet when a confrontation broke out between him and another student, 17-year-old Carmelo Anthony. Now, investigators say that it all started during a weather delay. All of these track people had their own tents up and, you know, things like that. Carmelo was apparently sitting under Memorial High School's team tent, even though he attended a different school and that at some point
possibly because of that, an argument broke out. Investigators say that Austin pushed Carmelo, Carmelo then pulled out a knife and then Austin was stabbed once in the chest. Austin collapsed and died shortly after, despite life-saving efforts and what is so heartbreaking about this, too, is his identical twin brother Hunter was also at this track meet and that is who Austin
ultimately collapsed into into his brother's arms and his brother had to watch him die in front of him.
Authorities later said that the knife pierced his heart. So, Carmelo was arrested at the scene, he was charged with murder and he has maintained from day one that he acted in self-defense.
“Now, fast forward to this week because the trial is officially underway. And honestly,”
some of the testimony that has come out has been pretty jaw-dropping. For starters, before anyone even took the stand, there was already controversy surrounding the jury itself because the official sitting jury did not include any black jurors. The juror pool was originally narrowed down from around 600 summons, or whatever, however, you say it, to roughly 250 possible jurors. And then, by the final decision, there were only three black jurors left that could have been chosen,
but they were ultimately ruled out. Now, the defense attorneys challenged this, accusing prosecutors
of improperly striking the last three remaining black jurors from the panel, but the state pushed back on that claim, arguing that those jurors were removed because they were educators, not because of their race. The judge ultimately agreed with the prosecution and they denied
“it fence's challenge. But because race has been such a heavily discussed part of this case from”
the very beginning, that decision to not have any black jurors on the jury, it immediately became a huge talking point online. Then, testimony started, and that's when things got really interesting, really fast. One of the prosecution's witnesses was a 17-year-old teammate of Austin's who had testified that he witnessed the confrontation himself. And this testimony, it was a pretty big deal, because he told the jurors that Carmelo already had a folding knife out. It was in his hand,
well before Austin allegedly shoved him. And the deal with this is that if the jury believed that testimony, that was going to be an incredibly big factor, because it completely contradicts the defense's argument that Carmelo only pulled the knife after becoming fearful during the physical confrontation. And, of course, saying that he had acted in self-defense. Another student athlete, who was 16 years old at the time, also had testified about what happened in the moments
leading up to the stabbing. He told jurors that he was sitting under the memorial tent with Austin and with some other teammates of theirs. When Carmelo walked up, sat down next to him, and randomly just said, "Crazy weather, huh?" The witness said that everyone was confused because they didn't know him. He wasn't part of their team. He didn't belong in that tent. They really didn't understand why he was there in the first place. According to the testimony, the group asked Carmelo to leave,
but he refused. The witness then claimed that Carmelo became so aggressive and said, "Fuck y'all, I'm not going to leave y'all are a bunch of pussy's y'all aren't going to do anything. Touch me and see what happens." And what really stood out to a lot of people through that is what the witnesses say that Austin said back to Carmelo during that. According to his testimony, Austin's response wasn't, "Okay, let's fight. Let's go, like fuck you, too." The witness says
that Austin told him, "I'm not going to fight you." Then came the medical examiner's testimony, which was probably one of the most emotional parts of the trial. jurors were told that Austin's cause of death was the single stab wound to the chest. The medical examiner testified that the knife went through his breastbone, then entered his chest cavity and pierced the right side of his heart. The wound through the heart wall was described as being approximately two inches long.
And the medical examiner didn't really leave much room for interpretation. They testified that
The injury was simply not survival.
chose not to testify in his own defense, which, of course, is absolutely his constitutional
“right and many defendants don't testify in their own defense. However, it is something that”
people always notice in high profile cases. So after several days of testimony, things ended up
wrapping up a lot quicker than anyone expected. Because the prosecution rested its case on Saturday, June 6, and the defense then started presenting their case on Monday morning at 9 a.m. However, the defense rested after just five and a half hours. Just they rested later on Monday. And then Tuesday, closing arguments began. And it looked like this trial was going to wrap up way faster than anybody expected. So the defense rested their case incredibly quickly, and then it moved into
closing arguments. And all of this moved a lot quicker than anyone expected. What's interesting, though, is that during this, the jury was allowed to consider manslaughter. And this was a major development in this part of the trial, because the judge instructed jurors that they could convict Carmelo of either murder or the lesser offence of manslaughter. So the defense had hoped that this would give jurors a middle ground option if they weren't entirely convinced one way or another that this
was either self-defense or outright murder. However, right after closing arguments, it went back to the jury for deliberation, and in less than three hours, they came back with their verdict. Carmelo was found guilty of murder. And this meant that he could be facing a sentencing range of five to 99 years in prison or life in prison. Now, this whole trial moved incredibly fast. Okay, so right after the verdict was read, which by the way, the courtroom was completely jam packed for,
it immediately moved into the sentencing phase. And ultimately, the jury sentenced Carmelo to
“35 years in prison, which he will be eligible for parole after half that time is served. And I think”
well, from what I've seen out there, too, a lot of people suggest that that is kind of poetic innocence, because that means that I believe he'll be eligible for parole at 17 and a half years, which is what Austin's age was when his life was taken from him. Again, everybody's divided. I'm not saying where I'm at with all of that, but I'm just saying what a lot of people are reporting based on that sentence. However, not everybody feels like 35 years in prison and the opportunity
for parole after half of that is enough because that would mean that he would be in what his late 30s possibly at the time of his release if he is granted parole. And in fact, one of the people who does not at all agree with that is Austin's father. In a statement where he directed straight to Carmelo, he says, we were robbed. Don't look down of all these things. I said from day one,
this was never about race. Please don't politicize it. But what you did chose to do, both,
is it's about right and wrong. We're all humans. We all believe the same color. You're free to make the choices all you want, but you're not free from those consequences. You will face those consequences starting today. People think that grief is sadness, but it's not. It's rage. And at that moment in the statement, he slammed his hands on the table, pure unfiltered rage. You failed your parents. You failed yourself. And you failed society. You don't belong in this community, which he says
that directly to Carmelo. You're going to prison. You can't even look me in the eyes right now, but you can stab my fucking son in the heart. A lot of emotions, there were fights outside of the courtroom. There is a lot of division on social media as you can imagine. And I don't know.
“Now, honestly, no matter where people fall on this case, I think that everybody can agree on”
one thing here. It's incredibly sad. You have these two young men, one who is now no longer alive. The other who is life will be changed forever because of what happened in those moments in a matter of seconds. And it all should have just been a normal high school track meet. How it escalated so quickly, what really happened under the tent. And why it happened? I guess it's still open to interpretation for varying opinions. However, you look at this case. But it's really sad. Two stories of
two teenagers each that's like their whole lives just gone gone. Quick moment of life. Because of like either rage or whoever whatever that motivating factor was, it's just, I know, very senseless. Now, before we wrap up, I know I mentioned last week that at CrimeCon, we had a little phone booth where people could either ask for advice or confess. Now, I said, if anybody actually confesses anything crazy, I'm going straight to the police. But we started going through some of the messages.
I know I mentioned last week that we were going to share either one of the co...
here every week with you at the end of headline highlights or share the advice segment. We want
“everybody to be anonymous. So we either will read the transcript of what they are asking advice for”
on or we will play the audio and alter their voice a little bit. And this first one that we're
going to kick this off with is pretty creepy. And I don't know if this person was joking or if they're serious, but I really do not like it at all. It's pretty unnerving. Let's play that for you right now. I shaved the heads of 30 cats. I don't know. I don't know if he was serious or not, but the
faculty is saying, I shaved the heads of 30 cats. Is he like a serial cat, head shaver? Is he just
“like doing it to the neighborhood cats? So what I think is it's like him trying to be, I'm hopeful,”
trying to like shock value and like maybe he worked as a vet or a groomer. So it's like, I've shaved the heads, heads of, you know, when it's like two truths in a lie, you're trying to like, like shock somebody, but it did also give don't fuck with cats. Yeah. And so I'm like, I don't know, is this one of those things where you take it as a joke, but really there's something lying beneath?
“I don't like, are you the one that left that messy? Yeah. Is it you and tell what you really mean by that?”
I'm nervous for next week. I'm nervous for next week's confession or advice, we will see what happens. All right, guys. So that is it for headline highlights. Don't forget crime con Orlando, 2027, September, get your tickets now before they sell out because they are going fast and use promo code Annie Elise to get your discount. If you're not there, you're going to have foam mo. So just do it. Get your tickets now. All right, guys. Thanks so much. I will be back on the mic with you on Monday,
with a deep dive into a case. Go and down the rabbit hole. If you still need more to binge this week, there was an episode released all on Latisha Stalk. What it means for her potential new trial, the fact that her conviction was overturned everything that goes into that. That episode can be found
on my second true crime podcast feed 10 to life. We released episodes there every Tuesday.
So you can go back and listen now. Otherwise, I will talk to you on Monday until then, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't walk home alone. Don't walk home alone and stay the hell away from cats. Period, men's sister. Bye.
