"Jon Bernthal"

Hey guys, happy smart lists. We're going to, we're going to smart list the hell out of this. We're going to really podcast it up today. I hope you're ready, put your helmet on, clean your ears, because it's coming in.

Welcome to smart lists. Smart. [MUSIC] Well, let's just start up a thing, happy birthday to you. >> Hey, happy birthday, will I?

>> Oh my goodness. So crazy on my birthday today, this finally I was finally able to shit this out, I had this, like you were shooting. >> This horse you got, man, that's the whole time. >> That explains a lot.

>> And your lot, doesn't it?

“>> Yeah, now what happens now that it's out of your ass?”

Does that mean it's all downhill? >> No, I'm going to put it right back where it came from. >> The horse is still up there. >> Johnny, will little devil, did you get anything? >> Injoyable for your birthday.

Did you always take a carryout?

>> I got a nice candle from JB and Amanda, with a beautiful car. >> I could tell, I could tell by the candle that JB picked it. >> Yeah, exactly, you know me, I like my candles and my soaps. And that candle right there from Jenny Kane is just about the tip of the topiest. It's a two-week candle, you know, three-week, you can't really control the burn.

You know, you're going to have a side that doesn't really keep up with the other side. >> You're going to get a week's side, you're going to get a week's side, you're going to get a week's side. >> And then it's reemergent. >> The wax is going to flood the other one and then you're screwed. >> Yeah.

>> But we're going to let you know. >> No matter for us. >> I'm a two-week burn kind of guy. >> Yeah. >> And so I got that, I got a nice, I got a nice sort of self-care thing from Shawnee a little gift for you.

>> Are you going to don't know, don't, a lot of people just like, they let the treatments expire, you know, they forget they've done this one that is one there. By the way, I took out a loan for this one. Yeah. Oh, uh, you once gave me a self-care thing and

um, I was very transparent. This is just always, is it the same? Nope. No, this

and new one, I'll get you, I'll get you this one too, Jay. You damn right. This is tough on it. We can't even go broadcast on this one. It's so really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She just comes right over to the house and um, uh, no, but uh, you will, we'll just say you will not complain. I will not. What? Complain. Well, that's up. No. We never know about you. But yeah, you know, I like, he's a real squeaky

wheel. And then, um, and Danny Dottie, he's giving me some nice books. Oh, that's nice books. Yeah. Are you going to read? I see one thing that I'm going to read.

“Now, do you, do your, do your boys panic about what to get, uh, the guy who's got it all?”

Or do they know what they're doing? No, I, I, I tell them not to get me anything. I just, I just want to hang out. So I got to have this name. Yeah, because I don't want people stressing about buying this whole thing. I just, I don't want anything. I know, but people like to do it. I'm, we have this conversation at Noss. I'm bad. But as long as you say,

no gifts, please, then at least it takes the pressure off. Yeah. But I, I always ignore that. I, I, I,

I don't know. I learned it such an early age. I always show up with, even if you just go over somebody's house to visit. I always show up with something. Yep. Oh, you guys still there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're never without at least a cookie. All right. Yeah. Yeah. You're for myself or for other. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I brought you this. Don't touch it. Yeah. We had a great, uh, we had a great cake last night. Oh, my gosh. And cake. I saw the

phone. I was waiting for the guy to come out to say if you want another piece. I know. I know. I know. Like nobody came out for a second. The guy, they only, they only cut up half of it. Waiting for the guy, were you waiting for Jen to say, can you have another piece? Yeah. Yeah. Or somebody, I was like, did they know? No, what, no, what type of cake was it? It wasn't the race. Chris, you want to visit? No. No. He was a classic. It was a classic Duncan Hines. You know,

yellow cake with chocolate frosting. Like, but done, done in the way it was, it was, it was, did you bring your own light buds? You're fucking shit, pig. No, it's not that bad. I guess you're moved. By the way, last year, my birthday, you remember when I brought, I brought some kind of like better scourge, something for the Sunday for the Sunday. There's a restaurant for the rest of the restaurants coming from. To terrible and so then everybody's giving me shit and then

camel is giving me so much shit and then the ice cream comes out and everybody's like, hey, can you pass that? It was caramel. It was caramel. Everybody used it, Jay. Yeah. It was hilarious.

“Now last night when you had that, first of all, what flavor is yellow vanilla? Is it just vanilla?”

Like, it's a rich vanilla. All right. Like a French vanilla. It's usually kind of like,

But it was fun. You were Miss JB. It was really fun. Yeah, JB, you were Miss. You were Miss.

And it was cool. We ended up as we, we got the kids involved, um, mavenate and that was the best time

“of that. That was the best thing in the night. We'll turn what? We'll turn around and tell you.”

We're talking about what do you like most in the world? No, what's going on in the world and I said, you know what? And the kids are at the end. Our children feeling well, but even made for there. And I said, what do you guys think about what we're talking about? And all this stuff that's going on, what all the grownups are talking about right now in the world? Are you guys stressed and blah, blah, blah, blah. And people said, I say, open up the straight. Isn't that what people said?

Let's just open the straight and just let the oil flow. Dude, dude, they both gave really good thoughtful answers that were represented. Yeah, it was so interesting to listen to them. Yeah, it was wild to, it was wild to look over to both of them, who have known since they were, you know,

tiny and have these incredible, you know, it was dope. Yeah, incredible opinions, thoughtful, you know,

thoughts that both very bright. Yeah, they really are. I tell you who's bright is our guest. I am excited for our guest today, man. This is, yeah, this is a dude that I have been such a fan of for a long, long time. And he's done. His number of credits are insane. He, Sean, you're going to like this, okay? He studied at the prestigious Moscow Arts Theater in Russia, okay? And then he went, I'm pretty sure he went to Harvard and got a master of fine arts or he did something like,

and there he was like, study like crazy theater has done a ton of theater. He's currently in the show in Broadway, and I want to say the name, the title of the show because you're going to know it as immediately. He's done, Adrian Brown. Countless, countless great performances in Welfa Wall Street. He was at a small part in Cicario, baby driver, Win River, and then a great, great part in Fort Versus Frey, King Richard. You also know him as the Punisher. He's going to be in the

Odyssey. He was in the accountant, accountant too. He's been in, I got to know him by watching him on the Walking Dead. But I'd love to him in this series. We own the city, guys. It's John Burntal. Yeah. The great, I kind of got it. That's great. John, what a thrill man. I'm such a fan dude. I'm such a fan. This is so cool. That's so cool. Say happy birthday. And I have just singing John singing.

“Man, I would sing him, but I'm trying to, I'm trying to save my voice for Broadway, right?”

Yeah, I totally fuck. But Will Man, I just, I want to tell you how much I just was blown away by your film man. You know, like just such a beautiful dive into. Yeah, but just like about fatherhood and being a husband and being an artist and like refalling and love with your wife. And it just like, I don't know, it was one of those things where, you know, like, I found it on like the perfect day in the perfect time and it just filled me with so much and it really was your

performance. It was just so I, I reached out to Bradley about it as well. But it was just such a human gorgeous, deep felt performance and it was awesome man. So thank you man. Thank you very kindly. Thank you, dude. And I know you, you mentioned that you're saving your voice. John is currently as you guys know in dog day after noon. Yeah, with my, with my good buddy, Johnny O is in that too. Oh, yeah, the best, the best, Johnny O. And I mean, how's that going, man?

How's the, how's the play going? I mean, it's a bit different as Sean said. I mean, look, it, it's been, uh, it, it's so cool that folks are coming to the theater that don't normally come to the theater. I, I love seeing that. It's so many people that we, we, we see outside say it's the

first time. Not just that they've ever been on Broadway, but that they're coming to the theater.

Yeah, like buses are coming in from Staten Island, which is so great. And, and yeah, I mean, not to be a total cheesecake, but I did. I, I kind of, this, this thing, you know, sort of save my life. And I, I, I kind of came about it in Russia. That's really where I, I, I, I figured this, you know, that, that's really where my formative years were. And, you know, the theater there is very vital. And it's for everybody. It's not this sort of exclusive thing for the gentry. It's,

it's for everybody. And it's a part of everyday life. And it's, it's, uh, enormously important

“to folks. So it's really cool. I think that this is just sort of expanding the theater”

audience. And it's been, it's been, it's been a thrill. It's been a thrill to see how much people dig it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned, I mentioned, too, that you don't, that you, that you were, you studied in Russia. And I'm kind of so interested, because you grew up in Maryland, which I want to get, we're going to come back to Maryland because we're going to come back to, uh, we own this city because dude. Okay. But you, you ended up studying theater in Russia,

I'm like, how, how, walk us through how that happened, man. Because that's extraordinary. It seems like, well, again, what, like, what time was that? What year was that? So I lived in Russia

school to play sports. I played football and, and baseball and, uh, play baseball and, in, in college. And, um, but I was getting in all kinds of trouble. And really, if there was, if there was a, dead end to walk down, I was walking down it and just running into every kind of wall. And, um, you know, I really sort of found theater on, uh, you know, on an accident. I, I was just an idiot. And I signed up for a class. And I thought I was taking the class with 600 kids in it and sitting

in the back with theater watching movies, but maybe in the, the kind of asshole that I was. I, I, I sound, I signed up for the, you know, the intro to theater class, which was just 10 people took

“it very seriously. You thought it was like a movie theater? I totally did. And that's what I heard”

all the athletes were like, you have to take a art requirement. And I had no idea. And, you know, I've told this story before. But the, the first assignment was to bring in something that was,

uh, deeply important to you and to share it with the class. And I had never seen such weird, uh,

I, I, I never experienced something, this sort of insane of these grown people talking about an object that that was so important to them and emoting and breaking down. And, um, I, I'd never really been around theater people before. And, yeah, slowly, but surely it came to my turn. And I didn't bring anything. I didn't have anything, so such a don't eat. And, uh, you know, but, but I was going to fall baseball practice right after. And I had my catcher's glove with me,

uh, so I just launched into this story about how my, my mother had given me this baseball glove on her deathbed. And my mom's like a live and well in DC, but I launched into this story and I'm

“crying my eyes out. And everyone in the room is crying their eyes out. I'm like, no, no, no, no,”

wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm just, I'm doing the acting, you know. And like, not was coming out of my, I was just so upset because I got lost in the story. And so this wonderful woman, Alma Becker,

who, uh, my first theater teacher ended up marrying my wife and I, she, you know, kicked everybody

out of that class and she just ripped my ass for violating the, the sanctity of her studio. But she's like, you know, you got something. And, and my punishment was to audition for the, the, the play and I got into it and I did the play and, um, and she was the one, what I wound up getting in a little bit of trouble and I couldn't finish school, you know, I said, look, this is something I really wanted to do. And, and, and I had no idea sort of what the pathway was, um,

and she said, look, there is none. But if I were you, uh, I would try to get into the Moscow art theater and, and, and go, go study over there, man. Uh, yeah, save my life. I mean, and, and, and being in Russian. But what, what part of that for, I mean, I'll show my ignorance here because I'll bet the Moscow, uh, again. That, that, that, that, yeah, that's cool. Um, is a clear pathway to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to stuff. Um, but what, you didn't know that? Why would you think that that would be, oh, yeah, that

makes a lot of sense. I'll go to Moscow to figure out how to break into, you know, New Yorker Hollywood. Yeah, I, I wasn't really thinking about kind of, you know, breaking in wasn't really even in, uh, you know, like staying out of trouble and just just finding this thing and, and really just this sort of blind faith I had in this wonderful woman and it's just such a testament to, to how beautiful a teacher, you know, the role that they can have in a young person's life and, and, um, it's just

astounding. She saved my life and I, I, and, and it's, it's really cool being here in New York and being on Broadway because I do feel so much of, I'm very, um, I feel like I'm very in touch with

that 18-year-old kid with that kid who found this thing and would have never believed in a

million years, you would have the opportunity to go out there, you know, in front of, uh, of, of this kind of audience every day and, and, and, and almost is very much with me, you know, I, we, we lost her a few years back, um, way too young, but, but I, I think I just had blind faith and her and, and it wasn't really a pathway to new, I didn't know what an agent was, but, but, um, it was that school, that place. Wow. Did you love, I mean, like, I'm, I'm an idiot, like, my

perception of going to Russia now. I would never step foot in Russia just because of the, you know, then I watched the movie come back. I might not come back. Was, what was it like for you then,

“and what is it, and would you ever go back? Oh, I would love to go back. That's what 15, 20 years ago?”

Yeah, I mean, now you can't, you know, it was 99, so 20, you know, that's, that's when I first went. I mean, it was a wild time. You know, people referred to it as the Wild West there, you know, there were shootings at the, at the Duma, which is like their Senate. You know, the chachins were blowing up apartment buildings in town. Wow. It was completely wild. People were really, was still, at the beginning of this. And you're like, and I have a curtain at 8 p.m. people.

I got through this trade. Yeah, but, but I do think, you know, for me, you know, a few things that play. I mean, I think I sort of considered myself at the time. You know, I was a boxer. I was sort of a, you know, considered myself a street, smart, kind of guy. So, to kind of go into a world, we're not just, it's a different alphabet. They speak a different language, but it was just a

There's a real brutality on the streets that at that time was sort of impossible. It, it will

find you one way or the other, but also mix with this unbelievable, just profound beauty and this reverence for the arts. You know, there's a statue on every corner of a playwriter, a poet, or an actor.

“And, and, and honestly, at that time in my life, you know, I don't know that I would have, you know,”

responded, you know, really to American theater training. You know, to be a, to be an actor and Russia was such a revered thing. And it was a very, for lack of a better word. It was a very masculine thing to do. And do you think John's sort of coming from your background, then, like, going to a place that had that, that it was like, it's almost like in your face arts in a way. I mean, reverential and also like appreciation, but so, you know, that it was, it was so sort

of startling in that way. And it was so, so in your face, do you think that that actually kind of

woke you up to it in a way that you might not have been appreciated here in America? Do you want to

me by that? I do. I mean, look, I think for me personally and again, I know it, it's sound, maybe, you know, apologies, it sounds maybe grandiose, but I really do feel like it saved my life. I was getting in so much trouble. And my life just was making no sense. And I gave you structure. It gave me structure, gave me something to believe in it, connected me with something spiritual. And then when I

“went over there, and my teachers were all folks who kind of came up in a system where public”

gathering was outlawed. So, for them to do plays, you know, they were doing plays in subway tunnels and abandoned buildings and had they been caught. You know, both the audience and the folks on stage would have been sent away, sent a prison, but it was so vital to them that they had to do it anyway. It was, it was, it was religious for them. And so for my teachers to be those, those kinds of people, you know, there, you know, I, I mean, it makes me think like Sean, you're like, hey,

any fun theater stories? Like, yeah, I once got shot in the head for doing a model like that. Yeah, I, John, sometimes I ask people who are in the theater on the show. I'm like, do you have like a staple hilarious, like something wrong on your lines? Yeah. Like theater story, you know, like a classic something went wrong. Uh, so, but I can't imagine, yeah, like so. So, there was a rush of must be insane. Wait, John, what was that? I was sorry, Jason,

I just wanted, but we're in the theater here for like Jason, this is, because it involves you, you're on Broadway right now. You're doing the show, the show's over. Do you have people come backstage? God, Jason. Yeah, it has, do you want people backstage when you're in down with the show? He's the one with the rules of people going backstage. Because I hear if you don't go back, you're being rude, and I figure if you go back, you're being presumptuous,

that like, you know, hey, your famous time famous, you don't know each other, but you probably want to say hi, you know. Oh man, how do you answer this without getting in trouble? Yeah, I don't know. You've asked everybody to worry. No, no, look, you know, it's such a weird thing

because I don't want to know who's there, and I feel like there's always a way that it's the

information kind of sneaks through. I mean, Ebony and I have done a thing, there's a guest list. So almost every night, Ebony and I, you know, I think last night, we, we said, Barack Obama was there the night before, I think we said, we always make shit up, just to get everybody out, but I don't know. You know, it's a very, I really appreciate when folks come back, and it's not an awkward, you know, it's really, it's really, it's like a hot bed of awkwardness.

I feel like a lot of times, even when people are, they're clearly moved, it clearly was, but you know, you're so tired and you're in a weird sort of state. Yeah, and that's just it. You're kind of obligated to make them feel comfortable because it's your house, you know, and you're there in your dress, and they're obligated to make you feel that they loved it. You know, it's all right. Jason, Jason, do you think that there's a world now?

“Like next week, if you're, you're in New York, you go and you see what you should go see.”

I want to come and see Jason, can you now having had this conversation with John, do you find that you could, you could show it? Only because we've had this conversation, so that when we see each other, it's not going to be awkward. We'll give each other that little look, like, of here. I would want you to do exactly what you want to do. Like, if you wanted to come back, I would want you to come back, but if you didn't, how do I want you to feel so totally good about that?

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, go now and enjoy your night. I just, I just, so people want to get home, yeah. Well, be right back. And now back to the show. John, do you do the any kind of warm-up stuff with your voice? Like, I mean, do you even think about where you place your voice and how you support it, so you can do

h shows a week and all that, because you do, if you don't know how to do it, you do tend to, people tend to lose their voices pretty quickly. Yeah, it's a battle, and that was the thing everybody said going in, and I know Sean, you know it's so well, it's, you know, it's like physically,

that you're, you're not going to exhaust me that way. This is fucking exhausting. I mean, this is not like anything I've ever done. But, you know, if you, if you, if you do see it,

“you know, I speak in a much higher register when I, when I do the show. And I think that that helps,”

but yeah, I definitely warm up and, you know, Kate Wilson's working with us, and she's incredible.

You know, she's like one of one. I just did this show a, just a few weeks ago, called the Unknown, and in it, every single night for seven shows a week, the Op, I'm page one. I, there's this stock I was talking to you. There's this stocker talking to me outside of the house, and I would do the same movement every single time. I go up on the ball of my foot, right? I've gone the ball my foot looking like I'm looking for the stocker outside of the house. Look at this. No, no, I have a boot on

walking boot. I have a boot on you because of the play. You didn't even have boots, boots. Yeah, boots in the game because of this repetitive, right, the repetitive movements that you do every single day. So don't you, is there any part of your body just like feeling that? Any kind of like physical? Well, can I answer this for you, John? You see, John doesn't mean line fucking ding-dong. Yeah, and he's not like acting like a person

who needs to be cut out of their house, you know what I mean? His calf can withstand a little little press. Because he's getting over 1100 steps a day, okay? I will say I try to box or go to the gym every day and I do think it really doesn't help that you're doing something for every seat, for Tracy and Sean, the gym is. It's about GYM. Oh, okay, got it, I did. Hey, John, what was without prying too much into your history and your your flavor of

trouble that you like to what you did? What was it that you found about the theater that was a bit

“of? Oh, Jay, I thought you were going to say like what was your favorite kind of coke?”

'Cause I prefer you a little bit because I don't like a speedy brand every once in a while. What was like, what, what, what, what did you find theater did for for you that alleviated some of that the cause? I found that the exact same energy that I tapped into when I was young and sort of my way of, you know, my best friends are the planet on the planet are still the guys that I grew up with, they're my best friends and I think that

we were wild kids and we we and I think our way of honestly telling each other that we loved each other was taking crazy risks together and and doing things that we shouldn't have done and I felt that for me the the very same thing, the reckless abandonment and the I'll say like the violence, the the like let's just throw it all away like whatever this is we're fucking going, finding that but using it tapping into that same thing but it wasn't landing me in jail,

it wasn't landing me in trouble or getting kicked out of schools, it was actually bringing joy to people and making me find different parts of myself that I knew how to sort of access really well but it was it I mean again without sounding like a cheese dick it was it was using it for good

and and it it did it same my life yeah I mentioned walking dead that was the first time that

that I feel like I remember seeing you on a regular basis in something and I was like I remember watching that show and thinking who the fuck is this dude he's so locked in he's so dialed like this dude is he's got something was that was that a thing was that a major turning point do you think in in your professional career walking dead? Yeah absolutely absolutely and and just in my life in general at that point you know I I got married right after season one two

to to to my wife who I met the day I got home from Russia she's she was an ICU trauma nurse we can we grew up together she's seen the worst of me hopefully the best of me but you know she's she's my whole life and and had my first child in the beginning of season two surrounded by people who had young families you know doing this work and the work still met so much to them

“and they were just family and work and but yeah I think with Frank Deribont and that show you know”

it it none of us in a million years thought it was going to be kind of the the juggernaut

thing that that it was it there was such humility to it and and and people believed in it so much and it's funny because if you you know if you put you know six or seven people out in the woods and and you say okay there's zombies out there if one person it's going a hundred percent towards

kind of total commitment right from the beginning and yeah it it's I was just so grateful to Frank and and and so grateful to be a part of that show you know yeah it was definitely definitely life changing yeah I imagine what's funny you say that yeah like everybody's got it that show had such a great ability to to keep the tension uh just so taught at all times like you were just

like always on the edge of your seat and you're right imagine if you had one guy just kind of

dilinated into the frame yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's you know worried about what's going on hey John what what talk about the sort of that transition from how acting sort of uh we was serving you in in one respect early on um and then as sort of your your demons you started to get some distance from your demons a bit and it's really starting to fall in love with with with with with with the acting and the and the and the talent you were recognizing

in yourself and you started to shape some technique I would imagine and talk about that transition into well wait a second I'm no longer kind of that guy I'm kind of really becoming more this part of myself and this could actually become a career, an occupation and I'm kind of decent at this and and and uh like was there a point where you realize oh wait I'm kind of I'm kind of all in on this now and I don't really know how to do anything else and I like that and this this is going

to be it let's literally become this guy and it was there that moment or did he just kind of happen naturally as jobs kind of progressed and and now you look back and you go wow now now I am this. Well look I mean I I think that um I think that there's something I don't know if you guys feel it being you know with everything you guys have done and who you are but for me I know the healthiest relationship that I can have with this thing is to um just to to to to be hungry and and

to not really be at any place of arrival and what I love about it's the same thing I love about

“being a dad is that the only thing that's for certain is you're gonna fucking fail you know like”

you're gonna mess up and you gotta like you gotta you gotta own it and you gotta acknowledge it and you gotta work through it and each one of those mess ups and each one of those failings is such an unbelievable opportunity for connection and and and teaching and growing together for both you and your kid and and I I feel so I feel like it's the exact same with what we do and I'm again

just like very very grateful that I get to do something that I can always just I'm always chasing

and trying to get better at and we'll say at the time yeah for sure and and like right now like doing this play like to be this at this age and at this point in my life and still be terrified it's such a thrill yeah it's though yeah for sure it's very cool that's why you do it yeah yeah but I will say for me luckily things started to kind of work out for me at the exact same time that I started a family and and and I will say it's just for me my life has become you know really really simple

and clear it's it's it's them and it's this and and I'm very happy with that and that's that's

“not a coincidence by the way that's not a coincidence I think we all know like for me I had the similar”

experiences having kids just cracked me open in a way that it's allowed me to be open to all sorts of

things and yeah and and so I I always believe that those kinds of things go hand in hand and and

you know it's funny you retain this thing about you know you're gonna make mistakes and I always think about I remember watching this documentary about this soccer team but the coach is very famous coach Jose marino remember talking to the team the team that kind of got down on themselves and they were down at halftime and it comes in they filmed his speech to the team and he was like you guys are acting like every time there's a mistake or the other team gets a goal or

whatever it's the end of the world and he's like the other team is gonna score all right the I you're gonna make mistakes they're they're gonna get a goal because they're trying to do the same thing you're but the trick is what do you do how do you cope with it that's the thing and I was

“that I was stuck with me like and I can sort of apply it I don't know about you guys I think about”

that shit all the time in my life what stuff doesn't go exactly my way I go yeah shit's not going to always go your way right okay I can't fall apart when it doesn't yeah okay now what what can I do now you know what I mean yeah and so and sometimes things go you know just the the sort of proximity to you know real tragedy and and real failure and you know these things with sometimes life hands you such a kick in the ass that will change your entire perspective but also you know there's real

tragedy that that that I think comes part and parcel with it but sometimes you just get close to it sometimes it's just a a reawakening or you get close to something or you think maybe somebody's sick

that with each you know sort of failing or fall or tragedy they're all for such an opportunity and

and I do think you know primarily let the job is now to to be apparent and you got to go together and you got to show them the different lenses that you know that that that that that just changing your perspective how much can be gained by that I mean but luckily I'm able to show my kids a lot of failure so it's good they're very open to me how old are the kids John I have a 14 year old a 12 year old a 10 year old and then my little four year old niece has come

to to live with us the last the last few years to that's where our any of them showing any interest in what you do oh gosh no man no no I mean I might come see the play yeah they've come

to see the play and they're coming again this weekend but my kids are all you know they're they're

they're they're very in the sports and and and the outdoors and you know and and and it's you know they have very full and beautiful hearts each one of them and each one of them is so

“you know such an individual you know it's there for them I think if if if if they'd ever wanted”

but I think right now it's you know I'm what I do is not too cool to them how do you um because I I think about this for myself with the I got I've got two girls 19 and 14 and um and you know I'm I haven't had a perfectly straight line towards where I'm at you know I sure emotionally or or otherwise you know I I I didn't do you know the perfect thing all the time but I like I like

where I've landed and and I don't think I would have landed in this spot how did I not

bang into a couple of years and so as I see my girls growing up and you know when they when they go through things that are that are not sheltered I start to think well how would I react if they make a wrong choice you know if the and because like I don't want to be hypocritical I like the way my adversity has sort of shaped me and so I I battle with that as a parent you know you want your kids to have a pristine you know travel so how you know like I'm sure your kids are you they've

got to have my pristine you mean like by pristine you mean like protected like you want to do

“well no but I mean I think it's just a natural insect you don't ever make her stay so you don't want”

anything to get but right so I just I wonder if if my kids ever started to experiment with some of the risks that I went through I wouldn't want to be I wouldn't encourage them to do that but I certainly wouldn't be um unaccepting of them coming to me afterwards and saying yeah I screwed up I did this you know so I'm not sure what the question is but you know I guess how tolerant would you be if your kids started to walk down somewhere the same past you did knowing that you came out

okay you know yeah I mean it's such a good you look I mean it's it's it's again it's like these are the questions where we're you know you know as parents it's like you know we're it's such a blessing to be this obsessed with these people's lives and they're well being and I think adversity is such an important word absolutely no way that I could do the things that I could do put food on the table the way that I do if I didn't get the the licks that I got and the bumps that I got

and the and and and and was in the valleys that that that I spent a lot of time in and so I knew you know instinctively I know with my children adversity is so necessary and how do I teach my kids the things I've learned but also know they cannot learn them the way that I learned them because there was so many times and I'm sure it's the same for you guys where this should could have gone either way it was all my friends are fucking close and like you know and and we've

lost people I've lost people I've lost my freedom I've been in situations where okay the but by by the grace of whatever you want to call it it just went a different way but oh my gosh like I've seen it really not work out and so you know from from a young age with my kids you know they were you know competing in martial arts they were you know like everybody needs to know how to swim everybody needs to know how to defend themselves everybody needs to know how to be in the outdoors

and and how can you sort of under the umbrella of safety put them in really really hard

“challenging situations where they can learn from and and I think moreover I think especially”

for for my boys you know how do I teach them you know in in this day and age where there's so few role models out there for these young boys how do I teach them that like yes like it like it is absolutely paramount that you are a protector that you're a provider that you're somebody that can be counted on that that people in a crowd of something goes wrong well you guys have to know how and the ability to be helpful but also equally important

do you are you hungry for conversation are you hungry to learn are you hungry to be challenged by somebody who thinks looks feels praise to somebody completely different than you are you confident enough in yourself to to to approach any conversation but also be nimble enough to to listen and to be swayed and be changed and not and then you got it she's just crazy you

“don't know oh man you know it's all you know like that's what's so cool about it and I do”

feel I don't know if you guys feel the same thing but I do feel these paths for me are really lining up where where the work that at least the work that I want to be doing you know really has a it really informs us it informs me as a human being I get a deeper understanding but also you know one day my kids will look at it and they'll say one yeah dad was working his ass off but too you know that that there's there's a there's a message there that that there's a humanity there

that they see in all people even even when you play a monster you know that there's there's a little

kid in there there's a scared little kid in there and and and and that that it's never too late

it's never too late to breathe out how and the world did you gather all this wisdom it's and you what you're everything you're just that smart so seriously it's been always time watching

“below deck eating Swedish for sure and I got crossed out of my I got crossed out my list”

I mean what are you talking about he's out of the world okay no traders traders no seriously it's it you're just that was just incredible everything you know you went through everything he went through the fine shot but Sean you I mean look you are everybody that I know here on this on this thing Sean you you you you came you didn't have nobody handed you this you had you came from you you know you had a single mom household you're dad left which we

make fun of all the time done it's super funny the way he left it was so sad and it was really wonderful five kids just left them all just one day just gone just evaporated just tire-strange yeah just like he was on a start like on this USS Enterprise it's got beamed out of there so so so but I mean Sean you grew up in that and you you had to kind of fend for yourself and you fed way and you were a town to do it in JB you were out in the world working since you were a kid and yet to kind of

fend for yourself as well like you know what it's like and none of us knew anybody I didn't know

“anybody in show business I mean well you had like how many how many made and servers did you have to”

leave your house I mean we ended up reducing after the crash of 87 we reduced a little bit but at boarding school everybody was anyway doesn't matter parking spot for all of them you know it's like but but the the point is like you you I bet you have more it feels like John what's what's nice is you have real access to your experience in a way that's very that that that you're you stay very in touch with it that's great because you can kind of because your kids can learn from that and

that is a thing that I I try to do I try to change it Jason like you were saying I have those moments where I'm like trying to understand their experience where there are trying to identify with where they're at where I was at at that age I've three boys I've two teenage boys and I spent a lot of time going you know they're going through it they're going through those years and I go like let them have the thing don't true and and also don't make it about me and like hey when I was

a kid just let them have those things but try to identify with those moments and it's not always

easy you know but you try to do it as much as you can yeah we'll be right back back to the show John do you have because everything I could talk to you about all this stuff we were you were just talking about forever I love talking to them you know but John do not give me that dog you're gonna try to go to three to try to go side chat you're gonna try to go side chat no now do your kids get your kids feel like dad is overwhelming with all of those kind of

teachings and kind of parenting or do they actually listen to what you're saying I'm not sure you know I'm not sure I look like I you know like my my oldest son boxes I'm his trainer I coach you know I coach the they've been football and I coach them in basketball since they were young you know I coached my daughter the thing that I know they see is what I saw in in my dad and you know my dad was the guy that when people in the neighborhood

people around DC my friends they all had their own relationships with my dad when they were in trouble they went to my dad he was their coach he was a guy that he he he call him straight you know

he he he wouldn't bullshit them he he he he he helped them he always had everybody's back

and he wouldn't judge he let's let's let's work through this let's get through this and then we'll deal with the judgment and all that shit later but he was a guy that could really be

we we live in you know this small town of you know we live in Ohio and we've been there 15 years I love all that such a small yeah it's it's beautiful and it's it's a beautiful community where you still can you know raise other to you know you parent other other other people's kids you know you get to come to me and you know I teach them how to box I've I've been coaching football there for the last six years and and and you know we have a theater there where where the kids come

“and and so I think that the one thing my kids know is that it's not I'm I'm I'm I'm sort of the”

same with all of them and and if kid comes to me doesn't matter if he's my kid or your kid you know I I really really I want to give them whatever I can give them with with while saying look I don't

have the fucking answers like I hit every wall you can hit right but like it's never too late and like

your parents love you know whether you're you know whether you're whether they left or not whether they're incarcerated or not they love so shot by the way he started he started a theater basically a theater and a theater festival in up in Ohio is that right so I didn't I didn't know that yeah that's cool yeah I mean it's it's just you know in in the town it's it's it's it's the town has given me so much and I love it and and you know since we since my first exposure to it you know I saw something in the

young people in that town you know 10 15 years ago where there was such a sturdiness and and and

“such grace and kindness there's that it's it's yes it's it's yes or no man but there's nothing”

repressed or suppressed the kids are curious there's a really strong onus of the young people in Ohio to get out go see the world go experience things and then come back and raise your family there and it's a really beautiful community but I will say over the past you know 5 10 years especially so many folks have moved up there and and culturally it's it's really a place in in in in conflict because it's the tipping point has has kind of happened it's fair you know we we see it in big

cities all the time definitely happen in DC where I grew up but you know in Ohio it's really gotten to a place where you know the public school there which was a real bastion of of of public education has really suffered because of the influx of Angelino's that have come up there and so I just I I I I I I love that school I love these kids I love these institutional Ohio family so we built a theater and an old defunct school building and all the proceeds go to

the public school theater department and you know you know it's yeah it's really cool

Sean's agreeing to do a show there next year is great you know well well always well always

makes fun of me because I whenever I go to like a party or dinner I want to leave right away and I'm like I learned it from my dad no I could jump up now we mentioned you mentioned DC in Maryland and I want to I want to get to because I is one of the I for me was a show that really I thought like wow it really fucking just blew me away when you played uh was it Wayne Jenkins yeah on we on the city do you guys see that at HBO this David Simon show that it's unbelievable in and I

what's cool is now kind of just talking to you I understood you I can see that like you brought some of your own knowledge of all that kind of stuff and like sort of the dark guys who ended up

staying on the wrong track or got on the wrong track and never got off in this really I mean Wayne

“is a very compromised character right he's and he does and I think that somewhere along the line he”

went when he started he thinks he's doing the right thing right like he thinks he's fighting in this but he's actually ends up sort of going going rogue or bad or whatever but he sees himself not not is doing that it anyway it's a very it's a very complex portrayal and I love that show I mean that that must tell me about working with David Simon and what that experience was like it's excellent man thanks man I appreciate that one is my heart and you know was such a thrill and an honor for me I think

I think I think first and foremost you know at that time in the in the wake of Freddie Gray and in the midst of George Floyd and everything that was going on in this country and for me just being so I think naturally based on people in my life and based on my own experience I'm so revolted by the the flag waving in this country the people on either side of the poles just waving their flag full of rhetoric but they've never been in the valleys they've never been in the situation where

they're actually rubbing elbows with the other side she can't there's no there's no access to to to recognizing decency in each other there's no access for empathy there's no access to to to to for friendship or for any level of understanding because you're just staying on your mountain top you know from the front you know just waving your flag and and so for me to go into this project you know that you know in Baltimore which is sort of like right in the tip of the

and also just to have the access coming in sort of with the street cred of David Simon and how much

the wire you know in that city that that wire for both the guys on the street people in the community and for the police like that is that is like required watching like the cops that I know in Baltimore they watch that every year to remind them that it's not personal it's business and you've seen the wire right you guys have seen the wire right yeah yeah yeah yeah so for me to kind of go in there like that you know I got to go you know I wrote out with those guys every night

for for for three straight months and when I swat raids with the county swat team and the city swat team but got to know Wayne got to know you know that whole unit of the gun trace task force

so I made unbelievable friends and I was able to see you know I'm just so grateful to really see it in

that way but I think more than anything else man and you know look he was considered you know the most corrupt the most vicious the most sort of vial you know police officer in the history of that city so to go into the police department say hey I want to write out with you guys I want to be around you guys to research this this very very ugly chapter of their life I I learned quickly you know with policing you know how other than the victims and the community that are that that are just

drastically devastated by corrupt policing it's also good cops are just there are terrorized by it and then their careers are completely destroyed by it and their safety on the street is totally

“upended by it as well but but I think mostly you know for me that the key for me was how do you”

play this guy and not just play him as a monster how do you find you know some sort of and it was interesting man because every single person who knew Wayne it was the first thing I said to him when I when I first met him everybody you talked to him said you know even if he was in the middle of robbing a drug dealer or you know shaking a guy down making a false arrest no matter what it was if any of his kids needed him at any point if there was ever an issue with the kids

he would run home immediately and it really hit me you know how can you engage in such corruption

knowing that most likely this is going to have a bad end because criminality almost always ends

bad how can you be that attuned to your family and and and and you're really doing one to support your family because you feel like you're not getting paid what you deserve but but but but that sort of conundrum and dichotomy you know really was at the crux of who I think he is and why he was still kind of torn apart but but he wasn't just a monster right right he's well yeah he's

“no he's completely shone as you had a little bit of criminal and remember that time you guys almost”

got a ticket just got to double park what you read into Chipotle I remember that story a large one I was in college I stole a turkey sandwich from the level of god and I got arrested are you going to play the turkey sandwich in the movie I guess I could give it to you John yeah John you're such a great communicator is sick it's unbelievable you're such a great communicator and you are of such a passion for community and country and it seems like you do

not shy away from opportunities for leadership you've you ever thought about politics at all you said that ever I mean I know no no I I think everybody has that reaction anytime anybody ever thinks about it or it's mentioned them but you look at I don't I'm not asking I don't care what's side of political spectrum you're on but you look at our current leaders are curtain but like you you're in for someone that can communicate like you and that can have the kind of

genuine passion for people for for unity condition and community and we need folks like you if you ever have the time I so you got my vote yeah I'll be careful bro I look no I mean

“I look I I appreciate that I think the people that know me well my brothers I've ever”

brother who's a cancer surgeon the head of oncology at UCLA and orthopedic she's like wow that guy should be running for that guy is yeah but but but but but you know I really believe that what we do can really be effective I just do in my heart and and I think that you know for me I feel most natural and most authentic honestly coaching and teaching and doing it in my community on the 101 I think you know and and and I think as far I do really feel that what we do can

really provide a service and and can create real change and and and can really you know bring

as well as you you can yeah and he does it like like I said like and we own the city like

“there it is a great lesson and and and a lot of sort of really complex issues in that way so it's”

you are you are you are being a service well like through through your heart and it's well and then I mean do you got so many good things you got so many cool things come you've done so many cool things and it's like you're like accelerating man like you're just like it's awesome and I'm so psyched that everybody's getting to see you work in so many different ways you've got this summer you've got the new spider man brand new days coming out with with right with the Punisher in it and and that

trailer like broke every record came out the trailer is so sick and and and I'm not like a huge

like superhero movie fan and even even I'm like fuck this movie looks dope and and then you got

then you're in the Odyssey right in Chris Nolan's the Odyssey nice can you talk a little bit about working with that cause obviously Chris Nolan's one of the great yeah look at the slug it out there with that fucking drip Matt Damon we're talking about a squeaky wheel yeah that's what it comes what you made it the way they're being made it yeah look at I think with with Chris you know it's like I think with you know I think you you know I think you you get to see sometimes people doing like

“exactly what they're put on this earth to do and that's how I feel about Nolan I mean I think”

there's these stories again you know everybody kind of going in oh you have no idea how hard it's

going to be and how rigorous and how you know there's no and for me I'm like let's fucking like

I love that's music to my ears um there's nobody who's working harder on that set than he is and the directors that I've gotten to work with you know like Denny you know Scorsese here Plansky or you know Derek I mean there's there's there's so many of them you know they're all so enormously different but the thing that I feel like is uniform among all the greats for me I don't know if you guys feel this way but you know they've done so much work they know it's so

intimately well um but there's really an atmosphere of exploration and and freedom once you get to work and I find no bigger sort of telltale sign of mediocrity than people who it it has to be a a certain way and I couldn't believe that within this unbelievable structure and this unbelievable understanding of exactly what he wanted you know he's still both inspired and and not just allowed but demanded you know real freedom and creativity with it within every moment you thought like yeah

do you find yourself like working with him and like all and these huge pieces that you're doing I mean it's the Odyssey for Christ say and it is it and within that there's like a spirit of like hey let's find it like absolutely absolutely and and you know I I think in these films you know I did this movie fury some years back and I did the the the the the specific which was sort of the next and the band of brothers and you know there's these movies sometimes where you there's a group of guys

and you're all just sort of like slogging it out together for the thing and you forge these unbelievable relationships um you know and there is a group of there's a group of men in this movie that um you know we're Odysseus men we're Matt Damon's men and it was this group of actors you know they did eight months in like eight different countries um work so incredibly hard and you know what was cool is you know I I was only on the movie for a couple months and um but but I got to really

be a part of that group for the time that I was there and that was such a blessing for me um I think that

“you know the best thing that this offers this life is the people that you meet along the way and”

the relationships that you get that's what you're gonna die with and I was so honored to be a part of that group of Odysseus men and and and that I felt just a taste of what you know the real long hard slog the adventure was and um you know that that that's my big tape that that's what I'm most grateful for that's great and then and then I mentioned yeah and then you and then uh the spider man with uh with Tom Hall and the great Tom Hall and you said I love Tom I mean look you know like I

got to you know I have a Punisher special that I wrote that's coming out next week that I'm really excited about and then and then I'm also doing the Punisher and in spider man and you know with Tom because Tom was in the Odyssey as well you know I've known Tom since he was 17 well we did a movie in Ireland together I made his spider man audition tape and he made my Punisher audition tape oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and I gotta tell you man like this fucking kid

when he was 17 years old and there like everyone was auditioning for spider man this dude he was like I'm gonna get like I am spider man and I was like look dude like mathematically I just gotta be honest like I don't know but like he had such unbelievable conviction and belief

he was raised so well I love his family I love his his his his his better half I I'm so proud of

“the man and the movie star and the the the the human ambassador that he's become I love his”

relations he's really in love they really have a great thing I love them and it's so cool for me you know now you know whatever it is 10 years later to come back and you know I spent the whole you know we did two movies back to back with each other and I love this guy and um I couldn't be

happier for that's so good dude well we we could have been happier for you man I mean you're just

it's such a you're so great and like JB was saying you're such a great communicator it's just awesome to listen to you talking about stuff so happy you know you're just sick and and you've got

“someone's going on you've got you got spider man brand new day comes July 31st you've got the”

Odyssey opens June 17th and of course dog day afternoon on Broadway so glad you're just it's just enjoy yeah John see if you can find a work ethic before you see I was going to ask you for a theater story but next time I would love to hear just a tragic theater story I have a kid I have tons of them

me too they're always making me laugh really hard well we're gonna see you backstage I'm gonna

drag Jason backstage and we're gonna come on guys come on guys out here Willie and I make me out of the department yeah yeah the great John birthday John thank you guys see you soon guys have a wonderful night thanks for having me guys yeah yeah bye buddy yeah yeah you know you know what you know what I find but he's great well I think I'm gonna put him I'm gonna put him on the list with Alicia Keys Lionel Richie John birthday for my three favorite guests yeah I agree man he's I'm like I should

say instead of not favorite guests favorite interviews right so yeah we don't offense I'm gonna say that's my favorite I'm amongst some of my favorite people amongst your favorites amongst my favorites thank you yeah yeah yeah yeah you know though to be and I really mean this and this goes for you guys too

“I think you have to be no I think you know it's a big compliment I think you have to be super”

super super fucking smart like he is and like both of you are to be talented to be that talented you have I don't know that dummies are talented I've met a couple but but but true you're you're right I think I mean with yeah without the yeah yeah yeah but I mean there's all kinds of different talent though too right I mean you know I you know I I think it's it's clear that he's drawing on his checkered past when he's playing these incredibly complex characters and tapping into

stuff yeah yeah JB JB and Sean I please go watch we own the city's on HBO you're you're in your for the next the while you got time at night watching an episode of nice stuff it's so it's so good I'm like I found it his portrayal to be astonishing like it's it's really it's really something I love that and you know all the stuff that he's doing in Ohio which is you know there's a there's a neighboring town just outside when you get when you walk in it's so high and then when you

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