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So find and follow ideas wherever you get your podcasts. And find out what you're missing. Episodes drop every weekday. So I'll show you the endo yuda, do you know what I'm hearing? The man I am speaking to is one of Sebastian and Jackie Firlens, immediate neighbors and
Plyad del Cocoa. Two or three weeks ago, she was disappeared. I'm working probably at 10 or 11 in the morning, and I was listening her asking for help.
Well, a woman, I listened to a woman asking for help.
She was screaming for help. Saying hello, just tell her, "Help, help, help." So I'm going out and I know obviously what's that that house. So I talk with the security guy from the condominium and ask him, "Hey man, somebody's screaming for help asking for help."
So he told me, "Okay, I know where isn't." So we came, that house, because he told me, "Man, every time it's the same, they're fighting." So we went there and we don't see anything and the stop. The screaming woman was Jackie. The other voice her husband, Sebastian.
When investigated during similar loud altercations, the shouting would end and Jackie and Sebastian would later emerge from their house as if nothing had happened. Yeah, when he went over to do you see anything, no, no, just the screaming. I'm David Ridgen, and this is season 10 of someone knows something. The Jacqueline Furland Smith case, episode 3, Xpatriota.
Yeah, like if you're trying to report a human story, the human story is like, this has been really difficult on Sebastian, because I understand our parents are trying to find
“her, but we're also trying to move on with our life, right?”
About a year after Jackie disappeared, Sebastian drove through Plyacoco on his Vespa with a woman from Canada on the back, a new girlfriend he had met several months before. They just driven on the scooter together for 23 days all the way from Canada. Her name was Lorraine Franco, the same Lorraine who opened the door for me, and who is now sitting next to Sebastian in his backyard.
I came to Costa Rica because I was coming for my own reasons and didn't know Sebastian it all.
So you first met after Jackie disappeared?
Yeah, exactly. Because I was interested in volunteer work and I was doing my own like six weeks of volunteering around Costa Rica, and then I came to Coco to go scuba diving. Lorraine, who ran a business as a family therapist in Canada, says she first heard about Sebastian from a friend before her trip.
This would have been in December 2021, four months after Jackie disappeared.
“So that friend had been telling me, in Canada, you should really meet my friend, Sebastian,”
like he's such a nice guy. I'll be there to tell me about the big sad story. Lorraine came to Costa Rica on a wildlife conservation volunteer trip starting on January 14th, 2022. Before she returned home to Canada, she would meet Sebastian in person in Plyad del Coco.
Probably sometime in early February, 2022.
When I did meet Sebastian, I thought he was really nice.
I left him my back to Canada and then we just became friends, you know, and we just started
“talking on the phone because I was now back in Canada and he was still in Costa Rica.”
But then as I got started to talk to Sebastian and date him, it was a lot of us talking on the phone about everything. And Crane says she kept communicating with Sebastian by phone and they eventually became a couple meeting in person in Canada and then some plans emerged. Like obviously, Sebastian's massively into bikes and he's massively into adventures and
fun stuff like that. He had this dream to drive his Vespas that he bought in Canada one day to Costa Rica. And I'm like, yeah, that would be so cool.
I never dated anybody who did motorcycles or road motorcycles and I have zero experience
on motorcycle, but I'm an adventurous person. We're a new couple and so like let's do this fun adventure. And they did, driving on Sebastian's scooter from Canada to Costa Rica, a trip that would ultimately lead to both getting matching Vespas tattoos.
“Their dramatic arrival in town drew attention and some of the online community got buzzing”
about it and about a magazine article that came out around the same time. One of Sebastian's good friends from Quebec loves motorcycles too and his friends with a guy who writes for all these motorcycle magazines. So he got wind of our story of us riding on Vespas from Canada Costa Rica asks if he can interview us.
We're like sure. At this corner, our lives were just wanting to move on with our lives. We don't want to be known as the Lorraine in Sebastian, the one in the guy who's like, "Can you hear the possible murder?" The article makes no mention of Sebastian's recent past and there's nothing about Jackie.
Curiously, the whole thing as written as of Sebastian has never been to Costa Rica before
and Sebastian has referred to as having been batching it for nearly five years before finding Lorraine and using an underpowered street scooter to brave the wilds of central America with her.
“It's Lorraine who provides most of the explanation for this.”
Like, obviously, we're doing our best to just go through our life and just be Lorraine's passion, like the fun couple who are just nice people. We don't want to have that legacy following us everywhere we go. So we didn't tell that guy any of that stuff. So we get it to be by that guy on the phone and we don't really mention our past.
So when he's riding up the story, he's the one that put in there about Sebastian being a bachelor, right? We didn't tell him that he had been single because he was widowed or because his wife had been missing, like, that's horrible, that's nothing to do with the bike story. And so we just told him our side of the story and I read the story after it published and
I went, "Oh, shit." And I said, "You got to call that guy and ask him to correct that line." Because if I was her family, I'd read that story and want to throw up and want to strangle you because it makes you come off as this gall-of-anting bachelor.
Who's never been the Costa Rica before?
It makes it sound like he's never been here before, too. It just made him sound like, "Oh, he's like, he's had his bachelor days." And meanwhile, I was like, "Yeah, that's not exactly Sebastian." The bachelor's like, "I, he was a loving, dedicated devotee, husband of 12 years, who lost his wife and she was missing."
And he wasn't like the swinging bachelor. That's not why he was single. He was single because he was, in my mind, like, his more widowed. Lorraine and Sebastian call the author and ask him to change the article and it is modified, revising out the bachelor reference, but still with no mention of Jackie as far as I can
see. The author has declined to be interviewed. I'd like to know why he wrote the article that way. I wonder, too, what's been going on under this roof since Lorraine arrived, does Lorraine know anything about Jackie or her disappearance?
And I didn't really need to know much of the story other than I know my instincts and my intuition, and I also understand it's a health. So it is not something that many couples would even stay together for. It's a hard story because, I mean, my family found out that I was doing Sebastian, like, we have nothing to hide, but then my aunts and uncles go and just start, like, Googley his
name and then find out all the stories of it him. And then they basically just start freaking out that I'm dating this serial killer. And oh my god, do you know who you're dating? So then I had to then do damage control and try to, like, help them feel safe or comfortable. Our mum used to work at the Lorraine lives here with Sebastian, and he's sitting next
To her now.
The honest way she discusses these very personal details are striking, and Sebastian doesn't
seem to react in the negative. So I think he's heard this before. I mean, obviously I feel blessed that I get to live here, because this is the house that him and his ex-wife built together, and I'm like the person that gets to live here. But I'm okay with that, because I feel like I'm part of this story as much as, like,
we all have a story that just leads somewhere, and I just now, this is where I am. And I'm meant to be here, and he's meant to be here, and we're meant to be here, and I'm very, like, comfortable with that, knowledge.
“You know, it's Sebastian's a wonderful human, right?”
And he's everything that you would expect, like, he is extremely loyal, he's extremely dedicated. And everything about his history, Jackie, he makes sense, and he has not given his side of the story, and I keep saying, like, you have every right to defend yourself, because you are the person that in the story that should be commended, not the one who's thrown
under the bus, because of the years that you took care of her, like this wouldn't be inconsistent with the theory of e-being the killer, when actually it would have been way easier for you
just to have left her, and it'd be like, first, so long.
You know, this was not the straw that broke the camel's back. He endured way more, like, bruises.
“I am drawn to Lorraine's open thoughtfulness and sense of kindness, and I believe that she believes”
everything she's saying. Colleen and Gordon told me that Sebastian had been speaking to a counselor in Toronto before Jackie disappeared, but both Sebastian and Lorraine assure me that she is not that counselor. Jackie's parents also told me that Jackie was upset that Sebastian was allegedly speaking to an ex-girlfriend on the phone as well, and Jackie's perfect girlfriend text on the topic
likely refers to this, but I don't think Lorraine is that person either. I do wonder about Lorraine's comment regarding the straw that broke the camel's back, but set this aside for now and turned my attention back to Sebastian to find out more about the aftermath of Jackie's disappearance. So did police ever come to you?
The CR police ever come to you and say that they thought that, you know, you look suspicious so they get you in a room and try to grill you and go through questions. The interview me for sure because they came with dogs, obviously. And I reported everything, obviously, that same night, that's called OEOTA, like the OIG here. So those guys came and investigated and searched the old house from talk to bottom, searched
the car, the lot around the house, the neighbors, locked, and then interviewed me for hours. And then they came more than once, actually, because every time they were thinking about something, they would come with more questions, right, and stuff like that. So you have a surveillance camera here and it's outside the house. I do, but those are cheap stuff from Costco.
“So they don't really work well, they pretty much okay, you see the ad, right?”
So there's always something that moves, so you get like thousands of pictures of the ad,
the trees, the birds, the spider, and then you walk in front and it doesn't see you. And Gordon and Colleen, actually, like I said, that's like, I did not share the stuff, okay, I don't have the password for that, okay, because that was like a jackie with that, okay. But there's like, like, an investigator who came and get like the box and they check the thing, they say that I'm hiding stuff, no, I'm not.
Those guys came and got the box, I still don't have the box back. So like, they check what was in there, okay, regardless of what they see, like they came back to me and they told me that whoever that was, that there was nothing of interest on the camera. They said they were able to see what was on the camera, yeah, but the cameras are outside, right? So what they saw is, most likely, or like going out with a bag, like I said, exactly at that time.
I'm trying to connect with the Costa Rican authorities and will hopefully be able to confirm what I'm hearing here. Obviously they're not going to say that, yes, I've been investigated, yes, they came here with dogs, they smell everything and just for the record, I'm just going to say it.
When you find something in ancient Egypt that's like 6,000 years old, they kn...
blood somewhere, like they can't smell it with like a dog, dogs are that good.
“Dave and Doug, you saw a beautiful garden there, which is like you said it's wild now,”
because they dog everywhere, because cops obviously they see like freshly moved dirt, like which is a garden.
The few documents I have seen say that the OIG first speak to Sebastian in person on August 19th,
when he officially reports Jackie missing to police, then OIG speaks to Sebastian again the next day on the 20th. This time at the house, but they do not search it. OIG returns again five days after Jackie disappears on August 22nd to talk to Sebastian some more and finally conduct a superficial first search of the premises. Nothing unusual seems to have been found on the 22nd. How superficial is a superficial search? In the absence of police, I'll need their files to even
begin figuring out what was done or not. So Sebastian posted on Chit Chat that Jacqueline was missing
and I reached out to him seeing if there was anything that I could do to help. And right away,
I organized a search, like with people from our community. There were searches across the area undertaken by volunteers soon after Jackie disappeared. Organized in large part by Jackie's friend, Krista. We met in Coco and we had designated search areas for different groups and we sent everybody out from there and we conducted that over a couple of
“days and then when we, I honestly thought that we would find her right away.”
The ground search organized by Krista started on August 27th, 2021. Drones were locally used by Krista and a friend of Sebastian's too. Nothing was found. Two days later on August 29th, 2021, a team of search experts arrived that Krista says she called in. I contacted a guy I know Victor who volunteers with an organization called Open. Open which stands for the Organization for National Emergencies seems to be a semi-professional
or at least semi-organized search and rescue outfit. At couple days after that, the team was here on ground so we had to find lodging and food for them and other gear to support them like machetes. We ended up getting them rubber boots because these are guys walking through the jungle and snakes
are always an issue and just general searching rescue gear. How many days was a search conducted
“for Jackie after she disappeared? I believe it was a full three-week period.”
That was land and sea? Yes. Did anybody come up with anything? Did they find any remnant of clothing or any item that might belong to Jackie or any item at all? Nothing at all. And these guys were repelling off cliffs. They found an old wallet that had been sitting at the bottom of this cliff for it appeared to be a number of years, but there was never a single sign of any belonging of jacklands. We were hoping to find her flip-flops or anything.
And then how was it decided to sort of wrap up the searches? Well, two weeks into the search. Sebastian asked to shut it down, but I was not prepared to give up yet because there were still some areas that needed to be searched. Christus says Sebastian told her that the search was expensive, food and accommodation for searchers, but also told Christus that some crew members were trying to scam him.
There were also some questions being generally raised about the experience level of the searchers with some talking about ghosts and others using the equivalent of divining rods to ghosts for Jackie. Community donations for the search dried up as time went on with no progress. The official search lasted three weeks and on September 19th, 2021, it ended with no sign of Jackie. And did Sebastian take part in the actual searches himself to your knowledge? To my knowledge
no, like he wasn't out searching through the bushes and stuff like that. He was back at the house.
He drove the team members to different search areas and would drop them off.
act as a taxi kind of? I was there everywhere all the time. I asked Sebastian about the
“searches. And before the cops even did the search and stuff, we were like basically 15, 16 hours,”
like a day driving those guys around so they can search like a bigger per meter around the house. And it lasted close to three months, like by the end. Like myself, I was like, I just can't do that anymore.
I'm going to die. It's that demanding. And it's also when you're doing that, like you're always
like night and day basically talking about that. Like it's, it's extremely demanding and difficult, right? Yeah. Sebastian says he was on a boat that searched an area at sea, where things collected known as the garbage line. I asked him about some of the local fresh water lagoons and rivers, but he doesn't recall what was searched in that regard. Meanwhile, the OIJ
“conducts an additional search at Sebastian and Jackie's place on September 6, 2021, almost three”
weeks after Jackie disappears. Colleen and Gordon Smith. During week later, and I thought,
what are they going to find Jackie lived in the house? And another odd thing was Sebastian had a mock with a pale of chlorine in the house, you know, which I thought was a little odd, and then he had calling Quinn the hour. When they do some stuff and then we realized that we shouldn't be cleaning them. Without access to police or the file, I can't say whether or not cleaning the house affected any evidence and bleach in the bathroom is pretty common. But investigatively, one
would want a location to remain as it was on the night someone disappeared from it as much as
possible. Three days and certainly three weeks before searches are conducted is a long time. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson, host of the Daily News podcast front burner. I got this really cool note from a listener the other day. They wrote, "I find myself torn between the desire to understand the world around me and the anxiety associated with the easily accessed barrage of terrible news." And yet, amidst the torrent, they're lies a sweet spot called front burner. This is exactly
why we make the show. So you don't get swept away in a tide of overwhelming news. So follow front burner wherever you get your podcasts. You listed Gavara, the lead OIG investigator on Jackie's case, told me on a call that I needed to contact his superiors to get any more information. After lots of flack back and forth and getting nothing of value from anyone's superior, SKS producer Maria Burgos and I try calling an OIG
office manager, and Yella's service is more forthcoming and maybe not so incredibly tells us that nothing new has been added to Jackie's case file since 2022.
“And then, and Yella offers something else. The name of a key prosecutor, Carmen Ivania Pizarro,”
in Costa Rica, prosecutors oversee the criminal investigation and evaluate the evidence to look for foul play, so maybe Carmen Ivania can help. Jackie's file has been dismissed and archived at the courts, Carmen says, and the upshot of that, maybe there's a chance we can get our hands on it. We ask if she has Jackie's cell phone, and she says she does, but getting at that phone or anything else will still take a bit more doing.
I've sent a freedom of information request to the Abbotsford BC Police from Jackie's home town, whom I know did some work on the case, and there's still a lot more people to talk to here in Costa Rica. I'm just heading up to the development where Jackie and Sebastian had built their house. Yesterday, I talked to Sebastian and his new partner Lorraine, and today, I'm heading back to
Talk to the neighbors.
so that I can actually get there. Back to play Adele Coco for more active investigation.
“Nice to meet you. Can we chat or do you want to park or something? I was running to come and talk to you.”
Okay, sorry to have you waiting. No, no, there's no problem at all. Can we talk away from the idling car? It's gotten dark, and from what I can see, the man who has just driven up to me outside his own house looks like he has just come from a long day at work. The neighbor, I lived, yeah right next to him we have a... He's another neighbor of Sebastian and Jackie's who's asked to be anonymous because he fears for his family's safety, and I'm calling him Alejandro.
Alejandro moved in with his young family just a few weeks before Jackie disappeared.
Unfortunately, I didn't get to know Jackie in too much. She was always really nice.
She was always outside. She was always really happy. She was always working on the house, on the
“garden. She would talk to the kids. She would be very empathetic. She was always smiling and she was always”
working really hard. And Sebastian, I never talked to him because I only talked to Jackie. Was pretty decent. He didn't engage too much. She would be like outside too. You'd see how they're trying to get onto something with the house together and all that, and that was actually pretty nice to see. Sebastian was always behind, never talked, and with the angry face. Alejandro doesn't know why Sebastian and Jackie were fighting or what happened to Jackie.
But he does have some theories that includes suspicions about Sebastian's backyard after Jackie went missing. Why am I very suspicious about him behind the backyard because I have a lot of dogs. And the dogs, as soon as I opened the gate, would go to the, let's say, backside on the right-hand side of the, like, glass part of the garden. There is a place where he had like a bunch of logs,
and I could let my dogs go out, and my dogs would always go to the exact same place.
He continued burning things on top of it, but there was something burned underneath. He could submerge all the over until I got scared and I started going around the house with the shotgun. What birds for you saying? What kind of creatures? Being pinkheads and they're like all the time on top of the house, on top of the house. All the time on top of the house. My kids are afraid of it. I'm afraid of it. They're always in top of the house.
I have found one neighbor across the street who says "Valchers used to appear at their own property too", but nobody else, other than Alejandro, is able to say they saw "Valchers" at Sebastian's. The first ones that came and investigated was Oihote. Oihote is the Costa Rican, let's say, FBI, the governmental entities that should take charge of all these things, and they were all right in front of his house, and when I passed I stopped, and they were like, okay, so we can't
for sure say it was him, but he has his car heated inside of his garage, and he has blood all over the front seat of the passenger, and then he is not willing to share the surveillance videos of the house or the cameras and all of that, and I'm like, "For sure, it was him, it was him." Alejandro comes off as exaggerated to me, and his conclusions are speculative. Though it's obvious that he is actually fearful and suspicious of Sebastian.
After speaking to the Oihote, Alejandro says he became so concerned about Sebastian that he decided to confront him. "And then next time he comes by, I go with the shotgun again, and I knock on the door, and I tell him what the fucker I see you close to my house of fucking kill you." "You went over with your shotgun, oh yeah, it's not legal, I don't care, I really, I don't give a shit."
“Taking a shotgun into any situation seems like the best way to accelerate it in the wrong direction.”
Sebastian says this interaction never happened, but if it did, I'm not sure I fully understand
Alejandro's decision to confront Sebastian in this way. There's also no way of knowing what he was actually told by Oihote if anything. Christa adds even more nuance by telling
Me a story that offers some more potential detail about blood in the car.
my husband and I got into the car to go for breakfast one morning while the guys were out searching,
“and I have my little dog with me, and she actually pointed a spot in the back seat,”
and was digging furiously at it and sniffing it. Now, during the search with the Oihote's dog, they did upcutting a spot out of the back seat of the vehicle, and when I was in the back seat, it was covered with the vehicle cover, you know, like a seat cover, and they cut cutting out a spot, but I don't know whatever happened with that." "Okay, and how do you know that the police cut that
spot out?" "The bastion hole." "He told you, okay, and did he ever say anything about results or
did you ask him particularly about results of that?" "He said that he didn't know what the results were." Colleen and Gordon also say they saw Sebastian burning things in the days following Jackie's disappearance, but Sebastian says the police cleared him. "They dug everything, and that bring me to another accusation I got, because the garden was made of wood frame and stuff, so after it got all this dry, sorry, I got really depressed and stuck, actually using it,
so instead of letting it grow wild, I got to use all the wood that was there, and burn it for days on the neighbors' lap. Then it got me accused at all, that he burned the body, like, stupidness after stupidness if you want. So, yes, dogs came here and clear me, clear the car, clear the house, clear the lot, cleared him, the house, the lot, and the car. I'd still like to see what happened with the seat cover. I wonder how old it was, why it was put on top of the original cover,
and why both Christ's dog and the police dog might have alerted to it. "Hi, sir, you can help me?" "Yes, is this a lawnsup?" "Yes, that's me." "Yes, and asked to me?" "I nice to meet you, thank you so much." Alonzo, the gate guard. Gordon and Colleen mentioned to me that he might have seen something on the day Jackie disappeared. He wants to work on his English on the call, even though I say he can speak Spanish. "Do you remember seeing Jackie on the day she disappeared?"
"No, my father, uh, he's stuck here, and, well, he wasn't the integration, right?" "Okay, so Alonzo didn't see Jackie that day, it was apparently his partner."
"Sir, um, I want to tell you something. Sebastian, he never told us he was disappeared. That's
“happening. I think it was Tuesday, so we call Holy Hotha. They come to hear, and they ask you”
to know about his warm mind because he's disappeared in Blavra Blavra and wasn't a moment. We will receive the news from she was disappeared. He never told us nothing, sir." Sebastian tells me that he expected Jackie to come back that night, so perhaps because of prior experiences of Jackie leaving or him leaving, it might explain why Sebastian didn't immediately raise alarm bells in the community. The guards say that they heard about Jackie disappearing
from the police days after she vanished. "Just on my way to the guardhouse that's just down the hill from Jackie and Sebastian's place. I'm afraid I can speak to Alonzo and his partner, but what they say, they saw on that day. I spoke to Alonzo on the phone, but I really wanted to talk in person just passing the host that Jackie and Sebastian built here. There's a hedge in front of it now. It wasn't at the time, so it's hard to see the host to see a garage behind there."
"I make arrangements to meet in person with Alonzo and the other guard Michael."
“"Just a little guardhouse. I think there's three guardhouses in total. This is the sort of”
most active one that I've seen. Some of them are completely inoperative, it seems." "Is Alonzo here?" "I mean Alonzo, yeah. Alonzo." "Alonzo?" "Hi. Is this your partner that was here?"
"Yeah.
on the day of the August 17th, 2021." "Well, what do you think he is to record that?"
"The last time I saw this." "Well, I'm entering here like the 6th half, or less." "So right here like this. I'm entering but I'm not going to do it." "So he said that day, he saw her about he said 6 stories coming in and her car." "Yeah, in her car." "Okay, driving in." "Yes, you wave or she happy or she wave?" "She's on a, she wave." "Yeah." Michael says that around 630 p.m. Jackie came in, waveed at him from her car,
“and drove on past to her house. Back in 2021, Michael said he couldn't remember whether it was”
the 16th or 17th when he saw Jackie and that he saw her drive by a little later around 7 or 7 30 p.m. Michael also said back then that he thinks he saw Jackie drive to her garage and that he did not see her leave again. There is another route that you can walk or drive to or from the house, so not seeing Jackie or the car pass again just means past Michael at the guard house. But Michael does see something else passed by. "What else?" "It's a little car, it's a little taxi, it's a little taxi,
it's a little taxi, it's a little taxi, it's a little taxi." Michael says that later on he saw a taxi drive past
the guard house. "And it's so somebody behind that they've seen back in the taxi, and that he's not sure if he was her or okay, another person." "Okay, and what time was that taxi?" "Do you remember the time?" "Oh no, that's a car." "No, no, no, no." "Late or late, many hours later or just a couple hours later or "minutos, una hora." "Come on, una hora más o menos." "Oh, sorry, no." "Why not when he says?" "Yeah, [speaking in foreign language]
[speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] Sebastian said that a neighbor saw a taxi on the night
Jackie disappeared as well.
I wonder if it's the same sighting.
“So the taxi, you must have known the taxi driver”
because there's very few taxi drivers, right? Did he recognize the taxi driver? [speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language]
[speaking in foreign language] Red taxi though? [speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] Seeing Jackie come past in her car
between 630 p.m. and 730 p.m. on either the 16th or 17th, seems a reliable sighting to me. If on the 17th, it matches roughly with the approximate surf store receipt timings
of when Jackie would have been returning from there. Michael says he saw Jackie driving from the hermosa direction which would have been the shorter distance to arrive from the surf shop. Not seeing Jackie leave
and then seeing a taxi go by with a person in the back but he doesn't know who is less exact. Has he ever talked to Sebastian? Ever? [speaking in foreign language]
[speaking in foreign language] And did you ever see them fighting
“or arguing or any kind of interaction between them?”
[speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] You say one time at the neighbors, call him because the neighborhood somebody was screened on the house.
[speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] [speaking in foreign language] He go there to see what happened. [speaking in foreign language]
He calls Sebastian by his answer. [speaking in foreign language] And did you ever seen them arguing or fighting? Did you? Yeah.
They haven't, I don't know what kind of problem with the people who was building the house. And I remember I was here exactly
They was grass and friend
and they haven't had little scooter
“and she was a screen and hitting him at the back”
she wasn't the back. She was hitting him in the back. Yeah. And she was hitting him in the back. She was hitting him in the back.
She was hitting him in the back. She was hitting with his hand in the back. She was, Sebastian. She was, she was, I don't know. She was fighting or something.
She was hitting Sebastian. Yes, she was. [speaking in foreign language] The surveillance cameras. Did you ever see anything on any surveillance camera here
that showed Jacqueline leaving? No. Sebastian, you know, the house is, they have camera. When, uh, I hear, I hear the version that when they ask, you know, to see the camera, he say,
I'll, Jacqueline have the passport. But you know, everything about this, I don't have a control. Yeah. I really went through white cameras
because we have security cameras at the house. Yeah. But someone does have some footage from around the time Jackie disappeared. A neighbor across the street named Remael Danna.
In fact, Remace says that in 2021, she was the only neighbor in the immediate area who had security cameras. So, nobody has a shot of Jackie leaving the house, let alone leaving the house with a bag like Sebastian told me.
We pour through the footage, Remace sends, but because her camera is aimed closer to her house, not every car or motion event seems to trigger it. There are no recordings of Jackie or Sebastian on August 16th or 17th. There is a shot of Sebastian on the 18th,
around 1130am on his scooter. And on the 15th, there is a shot of Jackie's car returning home around 7pm. It could be surmised that Michael the Guard is actually remembering seeing Jackie drive by
on the 15th from this evidence, because it is similar timing, but impossible to say because whoever is driving the vehicle cannot be seen. Remace says she has talked to all the neighbors about Jackie
and I ask what she thinks about her disappearance. When he posted this, you know, he's trying to ignore somebody that's a beer, he says he's a killer somewhere, so I need to know what's going on.
“And I think it was probably, I really think so.”
I don't think she just walked away, like this is what they were saying, but she just walked away, no way. No way. No way is an opinion from Remace.
Someone who tells me she doesn't know Jackie or Sebastian beyond waving. Still theories of how no way happens are still fewer and further between than I would like. I wonder what Sebastian himself thinks happened.
Has anyone ever asked him? I did not kill her. Obviously yes. But who am I to convince anyone? Like people want to see me as the guilty
and stuff and whatever I do, they're going to think it's me. So even if I say something in their ad, it's going to be to prove that it's not me and like to try to say something, whatever.
And if I say, don't say anything, it's just saying the same thing.
So it's basically wasting my life trying to convince those people.
They want to hate me and they want me as a witness. They will. In thinking about the case and maybe in thinking about Jackie, what do you think happened? I'm probably the person or the most right.
So like I would say since she was like you're really afraid of pain and stuff, but like she was like tormented and didn't want to live anymore and it's been like that for quite a while. I would say she loved the ocean,
so she brought you in for a swim like planning on swimming until she cannot come back. Until she can't come back, I can't imagine many things that might be harder to do. Swim passed where you know you cannot return
at night in an ocean alone. Others have disappeared from the same cost where you can shoreline and days later the tide has brought them back. The beach sands have held them. Would there be no sign of Jackie?
Other cases have taught me that bodies in water can start to disarticulate in a surprisingly short time.
The fingers, hands and head first.
Then at the waist. Sharks and other fishes may not consume everything. Could Jackie have died by suicide
“with the intention that no part of her would be found?”
Maybe. As I'm sitting with Sebastian,
These thoughts go through my mind
and I notice on his leg a scar.
In the days after Jackie disappeared, other people noticed it too,
“but at that time it was a new, deep gash.”
[Music]
Someone knows something is hosted, written and produced by me, David Rigen.
The series is also produced by Maria Jose Burgos. Sound designed by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber.
Emily Kanel is our digital producer.
Chris Oak is our story editor.
“Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez.”
Tonya Springer is the senior manager and RF Nurani is the director of CBC Podcasts. You can binge all episodes of someone know something early on the CBC True Crime YouTube channel
“or for early and add free listening, subscribe to the CBC True Crime Premium channel on Apple Podcasts.”
Just click on the link in the show description. If you're looking for more CBC True Crime, check out uncover from CBC Podcasts. There are over 30 seasons to binge listen to right now. Sea of lies takes you inside the mind of a devious scammer
whose trail of destruction crosses continents and decades. Find investigations and more by searching for uncover wherever you get your podcasts. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca/podcasts
