Some Interesting Curses

Guaranteed human. (upbeat music) - Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of Eye-Heart Radio. (upbeat music)

- Hey and welcome to the podcast, I'm Josh. We're Chuck's here, I'm Jerry's here.

“So that makes this stuff you should know.”

And I guess we're just gonna call this one of our silly additions. (upbeat music) - Well, I don't know if it's silly, I think it's gonna fun,

people like hearing about curses, even though, you know, this is not a real thing, right? - Yeah, yeah, but I would call sillyness fun inherently. - Yeah, okay, well then we're in agreement. - I just want to clear up whether or not

we were a cursed podcast because we are. We've had pretty good successes at our curses. - Well, no don't you remember, we have a curse on other people's TV shows, a and our own actually.

- Oh, that's right, when we would mention something that TV show would get canceled, right? - No, when we would go on a TV show, it would get canceled. - Oh, that's right.

- Yeah. - It happened to, I don't remember the name of her program, but one of Soledetto Brian shows. - Yeah. - The whatever show with Alexis and Jennifer?

- Uh-huh. - Jeff Probst, daytime talk show? - Yeah, Probst and it up, I think. - Yeah, it's called. - And I'm sure there's more, but like all three of those

we went on and like seriously within weeks, they were canceling off the air or something.

- Oh man, now I'm telling a glad we never went on

going on an Orion. - Yeah, really. - So yes, we have our own curse, which is hilarious and wonderful because I think that's just one more, one more feather to put in our cap in it.

- That's right. And as you pointed out, when we went on our own TV show, that was also canceled. - Yeah, that was bound to happen. - We not canceled, I always say canceled.

It was not renewed, there's a difference. - Oh, there's a big difference. - The cancel is like, just stop, stop, to stop. - Yeah, I mean, how we do it is like, and now we covered one show last week

that had a radar show for mash, had a pilot in it got canceled. - Yeah, it like mid air, basically. - Yeah, before it, it the West Coast. So that made you feel a lot better.

- So let's just say, let's just give a little heads up to everybody, especially the people who are like,

“all I want is science from stuff you should know.”

This is like I said, it's a little silly. You said it's gonna be fun. A lot of this stuff is just legend. So we kind of tried to fact check as much as we could, but fact checking is a little bit beyond the point

because when you start to look into it, everything just falls apart.

So that's why, you know, we're basically doing

an anthropological view of some famous curses, or interesting curses that aren't necessarily famous. - That's right, and we're gonna start with the curses on Brunswick Springs, and that is a place in Brunswick, Vermont,

that has a spring, it has actually six of 'em, and each one of these, they're pretty great springs. They have some different minerals flowing out of each one, magnesium, sulfur, bromide, calcium iron, and arsenic. And because springs are a great place to heal oneself,

depending on what's going on with you, and what the spring can offer. And so obviously a lot of people over the years have tried to capitalize and charge money on these springs, but not anymore.

- No, they actually kind of stop trying, and the reason why is because there's a curse on the springs, we'll see what the deal is with that starting now. - Sounds like you're gonna say it right after this break, or anything.

- So let's talk about the Abanaki Chuck. - Yeah, they are an Algonquin speaking tribe, and they have lived in that area, and you know, Brunswick, Vermont is a lovely area, so don't blame 'em, but they've been living there

for about 12,000 years,

and they obviously were the first ones to say like,

"Hey, this spring is pretty great, "because they are a indigenous tribe, "they considered it a sacred place." And they thought that the springs had mystical healing powers, and you know, at the very least,

they probably have some sort of health benefits. - Yeah, sure, but this was like sacred ground to the Abanaki still is a matter of fact. And so as part of their oral tradition, and as far as legend goes to,

during the French and Indian War, the Abanaki brought a wounded French soldier. And remember French and Indian War, doesn't mean the French were fighting the Native Americans,

“they were fighting together against the British, right?”

So the French soldier was fighting alongside the Abanaki, he got wounded, and depending on who you ask you, there he was wounded in his arm, and was probably gonna lose it, he was mortally wounded.

The point of the story is that he was wounded. They took him to Brunswick Springs, and he was miraculously cured by the spring water. It was a really bro gesture of the Abanaki to do that for him.

- Yeah, for sure. So obviously, that soldier was like, "Hey, this worked wonders for me. I think I can probably make a little money on this thing." So he returned later, after he was healed,

and started bottling and selling the water. And the Abanaki confronted him, or like, "This is no good."

“There was a bit of a tiff that broke out,”

and bloodshed as a result. There was the death of a man in his infant child, which is super sad, and the wife and mother

of those two basically said, "All right."

You know what that means? It's cursed time, anyone from here till the end of time that comes along, and I'm summarizing, of course. - Sure.

- That comes along and tries to exploit these sacred springs for profit. She'll be cursed, and it will not be a success. - Yeah, which is kind of a mild curse for having just lost your husband and baby.

- Yeah, I would say like, and also, see, suffer illness and disease and die. - Right, exactly. So very shortly after that, the British won essentially the French Indian War,

and Abanaki were removed from the area around the Brunswick Springs, and they were essentially moved out of the way by British colonists who settled around there. And so they essentially lost control over their sacred ground

in a hundred years after that. Somebody finally was like, "We're gonna build a resort here." Like, these are, this is a great spa, right? So they build a spa resort,

and there's a website called the Vermonter, and they did a great story on this, but they turned up a hotel brochure from the 1860s, and it said that the spa offered medicine waters from the great spirit.

So just to add insult to injury, not only have they been like, this is our spring, now thanks, you go move somewhere else, they were like, by the way,

even the Native Americans think this is pretty amazing.

So come pay to stay here. So the hotel actually did fairly well for the first few decades, and then the curse finally woke up, and was like, "Where am I?"

Oh yeah, I better get to business. - That's right, I'm surprised when they included that medicine waters from the great spirit, like they were really asking for at that point, but that didn't awaken the curse,

but you were right, what would awaken the curse would be when a dentist took it over, and expanded the resort, and this was in 1894, and it burned to the ground, about 20 years after that,

my guy named John Hutchins bought the place, rebuilt it, and this was in 1929, that also burned down. So he's like, "All right, I guess I'm gonna rebuild it again, and I'm gonna add a couple of more hotels

to make it worth my while, they all burned down. In 1930 and 1931, so he was like, "All right, I guess this place really is cursed. "I'm out of here." - Yeah, and since then no one's tried to rebuild there again,

and the ruins of the hotel are still around. It's pretty cool, there's some good photos of it on that Vermontor website. There's a couple of foundations, the old train platforms there,

there's some staircases that go into an old seller,

but there's never going to be anyone

who tries their hand at it again, who says, "Forget this curse, "I'm going to try and build my own spa "and see if that burns down. "Why Chuck?"

- Well, because the Abonaki tribe actually purchased the land around the springs and sold it to Vermont. They said, "All right, we're gonna sell this to you. "This is just a few years ago, and now it's held in a trust, "and it's not ever gonna be developed."

- Pretty neat, huh? - Yeah, it's great. - That's a great end of that story. - Agreed. - And the Chris was able to fall back asleep.

- Go back to sleep, no, Chris.

“And were you gonna wake up and Hollywood California?”

- Well, hold on, let's have Jerry put some interstitial Christmas music in between these. (laughing) - All right, so who Ray for Hollywood? This is when I had heard of before

the curse of Atot. It's pretty well regarded, curse as far as, you know, in Hollywood circles. There was a script based on a book. It was a 1963 satirical Canadian novel called

the incomparable Atot by Mordecai Rikler. And it's about an annual hunter and poet from Canada who was discovered by a documentary crew and brought back to the big city of Toronto. And it's sort of like a King Kong thing.

It's like an exotic curiosity, and of course, as you would expect once Atot comes in the city. It's like a fish out of water story, but then he realizes like how awesome Toronto is and how great it is to be a big city guy

and to be famous and kind of rich. - Yeah. - And so he wants to fit in there and live that life and eventually runs for office. - You're right, it's a great satirical novel.

It's essentially the antithesis of Crocodile Dundee,

“'cause remember he moved to the big city,”

but he changed the big city, the big city, didn't change him. - That's right, and there was actually a line and it took where he had a knife pulled on him and he said, "That is a knife."

- It really was. You got there eventually.

“- It took me four takes everybody, good Lord.”

- I've never heard so many beeps in one spot.

- Oh gosh, okay. Jerry, I can just see Jerry editing this with her face at her hand. - This needs to go in our blooper reel and that Jerry doesn't do anymore. - No, no.

So what the book came out in 1968 and it was option within three years. - A few weeks. - Six or three, but yeah. - Six, these three, I thought it was '68, okay. So yeah, I guess it took a little while

for the Americans to catch on. - Yeah. - The script was purchased, it took a few years to turn it into a script, to adapt it. And when they did adapt it, they Americanized it

so that it took it and come from the great northern reaches of Canada that took him from Alaska and he wasn't taken to Toronto. He was taken to New York, right? - Yeah.

- So that did not trigger this movie getting made. I guess, I mean, you would know way better than me.

“But I mean, what percentage of scripts actually get made?”

Like are there way more scripts out there that have just been passing past around for years and years or is it actually kind of rare? - Yeah, I wonder what the percentage is. I mean, if you're talking about scripts

it actually get like bought by a studio. I bet 10% of those get made into movies. Maybe not. - Wow, wow. - Well, this was one of 'em, it was passed around Hollywood for years and years and years.

It just never got made. But over the years there were plenty of people who were like, this is a great script, I want to do this movie.

And the first to step up came in 1982,

the beginning of 1982. And actor named John Belloo, she, I think? - And he's Belloo, she, sorry. He got his hands on and he's like, I love this script, I'm gonna actually star as a took.

And I guess the ball didn't even begin to get rolling. It was sitting there held in place by inertia still before Belloo she died. - Yeah, he died very sadly at age 33.

“In the Shatto Mormon hotel from doing drugs,”

from a speedball. - Yes. - Very famously, I get to picture a took is probably a big fella because everybody that is followed in Belloo she's put steps has been,

you know, of larger proportions. So after Belloo she passed, it went back into turn around. It's been a few more years getting kicked around and then Sam Kinnison, the great comedian signed on in 1988

and actually started filming, right?

- I think they got eight days into it. - Okay. - Did you know real quick, Sam Kinnison was a fire in Brimstone itinerant preacher? - Yeah.

- Did not know that he started out like that. It makes sense, I can totally see it, but wow. So yeah, they filmed eight days worth of this movie and I guess Sam Kinnison hadn't really read the script because after that point he was like,

"Hey, I really want some more say "and what the script rewrites are gonna do." And the studio was like, "Ah, we're not really happy "about that," and Kinnison was like, "Oh yeah, well, I'm gonna deliver a terrible performance

"and the studio said, "Oh yeah, well, we're gonna sue you "and they did, they followed the lawsuit against them." - Yeah, it got pretty ugly. So production was obviously halted and it was still sort of in being contested

when Sam Kinnison, very sadly died in a car wreck in 1992 at age 38. - Okay, all right, that's a little weird so far to actors who tried to play a took have died young, but surely that doesn't mean anything, right?

- No, curses aren't real. - No, although it is real because if you continue on just a few more years, a took the script claimed more lives. - That's right, in 1996,

screenwriter Michael O'Donahue, who I believe was an SNL guy. - Yes. - The original script writer looked him up, he, I can't remember his name now,

maybe it was Todd Carrot. - Roger something. - He was a, a National Ampune guy. - Right. - And maybe Michael O'Donahue was too.

So it's kind of been that world, long way of saying, he took over did some rewrites and recruited none other than the great great John Candy and very sadly, we all know it happened to John Candy. He passed away at the age of 43 of a heart attack.

And O'Donahue also died of a cerebral hemorrhage at 58. So that was a double curse. And this is the point where I can remind everybody to go out and watch the John Candy documentary because it is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

- Okay, good, thank you for that. One other thing about that, John Candy and Michael O'Donahue died the same year in 1996, which was also the same year that they decided to make this movie.

- Was that not clear? - No. - Okay. - So that was, I mean, to me that's like,

I'm also, you guys, I'm not this really,

“this credulous, but it is very interesting to me, okay?”

- For sure. - What happened the next year, Chuck Shirley, the horrible reign of terror of Atook, came to an end after John Candy and Michael O'Donahue? - No, no, I think you know who's coming very sadly,

if there's one more person kind of waiting in the wings for this kind of role. It's Chris Farley, of course, in 1997, he decided to take on this role and got his buddy Phil Hartman on board

and we should double point this out. They died before they could get that movie made, the very same year. - Yeah, that same year, they same year. - Yeah, Chris Farley died.

- That's right. The next year, Phil Hartman died. We did a whole episode on him. - Yeah, that was a good one. - Yeah, so, I mean, there's a bunch of deaths

of people tagged on to Atook and Atook still hasn't been made. It's a very weird curse, as far as Hollywood curses go and there's plenty of those. It's a strange curse if you ask me.

But, the people that tails from development hell website, they did a pretty good article on this and they pointed out that if it took as a killer script, there's other killer scripts out there that all those same people were attached to,

at least Balushi, Kinnison, Kini and Farley were. - Yeah, very famously, the great great book,

a confederacy of dances has never been made

and there've been just tons and tons of people attached.

“I think Philipsy Moore Hoffman was attached to that as well.”

And he passed away, it will, Farley was attached. There's been a lot of people attached 'cause it's just such a great book. Did you ever read that? - No, is it just about southern foibles

or is it like better, bigger? - It's better, okay. - Yeah, it's good. What's a foible? - Just a unique kind of sometimes negative,

characteristic or trade or habit or something like that, just something that makes somebody themselves and not like other people that you kind of have to put up with if you're gonna love that person, how about that? - Oh, so I have many foibles.

- Oh, I have a lot of foibles too. - What's the other one? The Fatty Arbuckle biopic. All those guys were attached to that at one point as well. - That's the weird that all of those guys

and Philipsy Moore Hoffman were attached to confederacy of dances too, that's interesting. - Yeah. - I'm glad you mentioned Will Ferrell though,

because I wanna take a second and give a PSA

in the pants of Will Ferrell and John C. Riley and their movie, Holmes and Watson. - Oh, yeah, you texted me, you liked it, right? - Yes, when we did our episode on, I guess Sherlock Holmes, we got a lot of hate

from people who were like that movie sucked, it's terrible. And it's got like a really bad rating generally on it. - It's supposed to be just one of the worst movies. So I'm glad you liked it. - That is wrong.

I mean, if you're going in looking for any kind of high-brow cinema, yes, you're gonna be deeply disappointed, but if you're familiar with the cinema of John C. Riley and Will Ferrell together,

you're gonna actually be pleasantly surprised, especially if you think you're going in there like this movie kind of sucks, it's cute, it's good movie. - Yeah, as far as those movies are concerned. - I wanna check it out now.

“- Well, yeah, was there a Catalina wine mixer in that one?”

- No, there was not, no, nothing like that. There was a very, it was true to the period. - Well, I kind of wanna see it now, so. - You should see it. I texted you and told you to see it,

and this is what it takes for you to finally listen to me. - All right, we're gonna go find her my foibles and we'll be back after this. - And you came along, you know what I was like? (upbeat music)

- Yeah, well, we were work pals. This black music month, the Questlove show celebrates the artists, innovators, and cultural voices who continue to redefine music. We're sitting down with a groundbreaking country artist,

Mickey Guy. - The way that the country music community accepted post-millone versus Beyonce versus Shibuzi, like those are very eye-opening things. - Hip-op visionary Fat Five Freddie,

genre-bending musical genius Thundercat.

- And always legendary revolutionary voice, Chuck Tee.

- Yeah, we changed eyes, man. I had a team's out before this became my occupation, man. - Okay, I wrote my most of the show as a messenger. - From unforgettable stories to deep conversations about creativity, culture, and legacy.

These are the voices shaping the soundtrack of black music past, present, and future. Listen to the Questlove show on the I-Heart Radio at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. - June is black music month, and on the drink champs podcast,

we're speaking with the hottest names in the culture, like Swaley.

- I appreciate it.

I've seen it, but I'm like,

man, I still got so much more to do. Like, Prince, he's got like 30 albums. We've got like five right now. That's the right way we gotta be gone. - Yeah, that's the good attitude.

“You also hear stories from industry legends”

and hip-hop pioneers, like Fat Five Freddie. - I directed when Naz is their early video. - Which one? - One love. - Wow. - I literally filmed in his apartment in Queensburg.

These moms were still up in that apartment. Naz was just beginning to take off. His pop shoes still live near me in Harlem. His dad introduced him to a whole lot of, you know, conscious stuff, and he made a young prodigy.

- No matter the era, drink champs brings you the biggest names and the most unfiltered conversations. Listen to drink champs from the black effect podcast network on the I-Heart Radio app.

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

- Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is. Getting a racist tattoo removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is. Getting a new one, put up in its place. - As long as you're the politics of race in America,

there's gonna be a politics of remembering the civil war. - To get to school, I had to go down Robby Lee Boulevard. Get to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. - If you're in a store in, and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not doing a job.

- I'm a Keela Hughes. In Rebels' spirit season two goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space.

- We are more than our bodies. We contain essence, we contain spirit. How do you represent that? - They are just purely a fire that is really catching. - You'll see what I mean.

Listen to Rebels' spirit season two. On the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - Okay Chuck, we're gonna head on over to

present day Uzbekistan, and there you'll find that I had already parked the way back with Sheen. So let's get in. (machine whirring) - That's right, and we are talking about

the curse of Tamer Lane, originally Tim Moore, the Lane, and we very much need to point out here that calling someone Lane is not a word that we use anymore. - Right.

- Very much an answer to quite a term, but that was what they called Tim Moore, and it was then Anglicized to Tamer Lane, T-A-M-E-R-L-A-N-E, Tamer Lane. - Mm-hmm, not Lane.

- Right. - So maybe there are already getting the picture. Like, it's not a nice thing to say. - Right. He was a 14th century Mongol warlord.

I don't know if he was a descendant, probably, but he was certainly a successor to Genghis Khan, Ruchinghis Khan. And very much like Genghis Khan, he was responsible for the deaths of lots and lots of people.

- Yeah. - The number that I see bandied about most frequently is 17 million people. - Yeah, cheese. - Which even more impressive is that that is about five percent

of the entire global population at the time. That's how many people died as a result of Tamer Lane's conquests. - Yeah.

“- And I think that impressive you mean depressing.”

- Sure. - Yeah, exactly. - I mean, if you are impressed by large numbers, regardless of what you're present, that's all I mean. - Yeah.

So what do you into? - Large numbers. - Yeah. - Listen to this one.

- 17 million, whoa, very impressed.

- What are you talking about? - Deaths. - This date is over. - So he was known as the scourge of God, and he was a member of the bar last tribe,

or the barless tribe. And well, you already spoiled that one, and what is now you Becca Stan. And he was, you know, he did what they do. He, the sack cities all over the place,

Moscow, Persia, Delhi, Damascus, Unayment, and he's known as one of the, you know, I hate saying great, but one of the great conquerors. - Yeah, I mean, as far as conquerors

and all the terrible things that it's attended with being a conqueror or being a conqueror by a conqueror, he is often placed on equal footing with the areas the first, Alexander the Great, Chingus Khan again, Darius Rucker.

- Yeah, technically. Wait, wait, as the hoody front man

“or as a country star, I think he's conquered all.”

- Okay, well then yeah, Darius Rucker makes sense. - Yeah, one of the things though is about some of these conquerors, including Timer Lane, he was also credited with spreading a lot of culture too,

and there's actually a type of architecture, architectural style called Timmerwood, Timmerwood, and that you can find in the capital city of Samarkand in Uzbekistan, it's incredibly ornate

- That's great.

- Yeah, that's about the best thing

you could say.

“- You're trying to find something positive.”

- Sure. - If you've got pictures of that kind of architectural style, you'd be like, "Wow, that guy is impressive." - Yeah, it's very nice. I know you guys are all gonna like,

"Okay, Jesus, guys, is he cursed or not?" - Yeah. - So it turns out there was a curse, he died in 1405 during his last campaign, he fell ill, and he was put in an Ebony coffin

and entombed an Amazilium at a mosque in Samarkand, and he was there just, you know, entombed, is a dead person for about 500 years until Stalin came along in 1941 and said, "You know what, I wanna see if this guy truly had

apparently the lame," and again, I hate even using that words, but his issue was that he had issues with both his right limbs, his right arm and his right leg, and Stalin sounds like he wanted to get down

to the nitty gritty and see if that was really true. - Yeah, I also get the impression that Stalin was also flexing his power like over his vassal states, you know? - Oh, like you're this conquering hero

that's like the most revered person in your culture.

I can dig him up, basically, if I want to.

- Yeah, yeah. - One of the other points of the expedition was that the leader of the expedition, Michele Jarazim off, yeah. He was over a noun forensic reconstructionist,

so he was gonna take Tamerlane skull

“and basically do a lifelike likeness of him from him, right?”

So, here's the problem with all that. There's a, there was an inscription, they say, on Timmer's tomb that read, "Who's so ever disturbs my grave?" She'll unleash a conquer greater than I.

So they enter Timmer's tomb. They disentum him, I guess is what you would call that. - Exum him? - Yeah, but I think Exum means take out of the ground, this is taken out of the tomb, right?

- Good point, yeah. - So they take him out of his tomb, let's just stop being hoi-di-toy-di. And two days later, two days later, Hitler rolls across the Russian border,

the Western Russian border, in the biggest land invasion, ever before or since it's called Operation Barbarossa. - And how many days later was it? - Two, just two. - Yeah, two.

Two days after they disentumed Timmer. - The setting of two sons. - That's all? I actually saw it put like that. - So yeah, it was a massive invasion,

nearly 4 million German and Axis troops flooded there

to help out, like you said, as to the largest invasion in history. And as many as 16 million, not quite 17, but still a big number. And so I hope our own press, Russian civilians,

just the billions alone were killed, and millions more obviously soldiers were killed. And it just, the bloodshed kept going on while Germany was there in Russia. And it was a bad scene.

- It was a terrible scene, right? So like the tide eventually did turn, and one of the battles that the whole thing turned on was the battle was stalling, God, which is considered still to the state,

the bloodiest urban battle in history. The USSR lost 1.1 million soldiers. In fighting in just this one city, right? - Yeah. - The battle of stalling, God ended about the same time

that Stalin ordered Timmer's remains to be re-entumed. - Yeah, I mean, as the legend goes, Stalin got a little spooked, and was like, all right, well, maybe this thing, you know, this curse happened because of what I did.

And so they put him back in there. And that was it. They were repelled, the Germans were repelled from the USSR, but here's the deal. The curse was kind of not only obviously our curse is not real,

“but this one doesn't even seem to be real bad all, right?”

- Yeah, like Stalin couldn't have even gotten KG about the curse because it seems to have been invented not until 2003. - Yeah, and how did that happen? - Well, our friend Craig Collins on the site, hidden compass.

He's the one who said two sons set before the Nazis invaded for real, he had a really good article about it. He found a Russian documentary from 2003, and they mentioned, I get it, the sense it's a very history channel,

ask documentary from Russia. And they mentioned a book that they don't name, they don't show, but they say in the book there was inscribed this curse saying, like if you dig me up or disintu me,

I'm going to unleash a conquer on you.

that that curse was inscribed on his tomb.

That we know, we know for a fact, it was not inscribed on his tomb,

“because that same Soviet team that disentumed Timmer.”

- Yeah. - They copied down all of the inscriptions. One of them went back and translated to Maul and published it as a book. There was in a single curse in there, no curse.

But the rest of the stuff is fairly accurate. The timing actually is still pretty accurate. It's just the fact that there wasn't an actual stated curse. Is the thing, wow. Why, indeed, I think.

But so let's stop talking about tens of millions of people dying, Chuck. And let's start talking more about baseball. - Yeah, America's pastime. We're not gonna talk about the curse of the Bambino

and the Red Sox.

We're gonna talk about the other great curse,

the curse of the goat, which involves the beloved Chicago Cubs, a team that I have grown to love. - Yeah. - Nearly by growing up watching them on WGN after school

and by going to Rickley Field now a few times. - Yeah, I tell everybody. Rickley Field's the easiest ballpark to just walk right into. It's wonderful.

- Yeah, it's the best. No, you don't even need to take it. - So let's get back in the way back. Let's get back in the way back machine, Chuck. And talk about somebody who actually did have a ticket

and still had a problem getting in. We're gonna go back to October 6, 1945, a particularly chilly day. And when we shut up at Rickley Field, we're gonna find that the Cubs

are scheduled to play the Tigers in game four of what's known as the world series of baseball. - That's right, and the guy trying to get in was a barone or he owned a tavern called the Lincoln tavern on Madison.

His name was William C. Honus. He's a Greek immigrant. And got a couple of box seats for $7.20 a piece. Walked up to Rickley Field with his pet goat Murphy. Or if he had a little blanket on

'cause it was unseasonably chilly for early October. And there was a sign on Murphy that said, "We got Detroit's goat and he's like, "this'll be great. "I'm gonna be doing here with my goat.

"I love this goat and we're gonna watch the ballgame. "And the kid at the gates said, "Sir, I don't think you can have a goat in here." That's my best Simpsons guy. - That was pretty close too.

- Pretty good. - Yeah. And so they rejected him, and he was not allowed to come in. - No, and so, C. Annus, I mean, he was fairly well-known. I don't know if connected to the right word,

but he owned what was known as the Lincoln tavern.

“I think you said, he had since renamed it”

before this, the Billy goat tavern, because Murphy, as a kid, had fallen off some truck back in 1934 and wandered into the Lincoln tavern. And C. Annus was like, "You're now the mascot." Apparently, he even formally adopted Murphy

through court, and Murphy had great home. So these guys have been friends for over 10 years by the time this incident happened. So, C. Annus is like, "You know what? "I got just enough cloud to get in touch with Philip K.

"Rigley, I want him to say I can't come in "before I'll accept it." - That's right. So he pleaded his case. He said, "I went to goat court for this guy."

And it's all legal, and everyone loves Murphy. You should see people at the tavern. And, "Rigley" apparently supposedly said, "No." And then he said, "Let Billy in, but not the goat." Yuck, yuck, yuck.

And when he was like, "Well, why not the goat? "I went to goat court and everything." Rigley said, "Because the goat stinks." Which he didn't need to say that. Like, a goat's have an odor, and everybody knows that.

You don't have to point it out. (laughs) - So C. Annus was like, "I'm not going to take this sitting down. "He stood up." He said, "My pride has been wounded by you."

"With incited insult to my goat friend "of more than a decade." So he cursed the cubs, right then and there. He apparently exclaimed, "The cubs ain't gonna win no more.

"The cubs will never win a world series

"so long as the goat is not allowed in "Rigley Field." And he stormed off with Murphy and toe. There's another version that says that they were allowed in, but they ended up getting kicked out because other fans complained that Murphy was trying

to eat their food, and then the curse happened. Either way, they got cursed because Murphy was not allowed to sit and watch the game.

“All right, I think that's a great cliffhanger”

'cause we got to see what happened to the cubs, and we'll find that out right after this. (upbeat music) - And you came along, you know what I'm like? (laughs)

- Yeah, well, we were work pals. This black music month, the Quest Love Show celebrates the artist, innovators,

We're sitting down with a groundbreaking country artist, Mickey Guy.

“- The way that the country music community”

accepted post-molone versus Beyonce versus Shibuzi, like those are very eye-opening things. - Hip-hop visionary, fat five, Freddie, genre-bending musical genius, thundercat.

And the always legendary revolutionary voice, Chuck Tee.

- Yeah, we changed tires, man. I had 18 jobs before, just became my occupation, man. - Okay, I wrote, I wrote for Bar Marcia Show as a messenger. From unforgettable stories to deep conversations about creativity, culture, and legacy,

these are the voices shaping the soundtrack of black music past, present, and future. Listen to the Quest Love Show on the I Heart Radio at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. - June is black music month,

and on the drink champs podcast, we're speaking with the hottest names in the culture, like Swaley. - Do you realize how legend there we are? - I appreciate it.

I've been seeing him, and I'm like, "Man, I still got so much more to do."

Like Prince, he's got like 30 albums.

We've got like five right now. That's the rate we've got to be going. - Yeah, that's a good attitude.

“You also hear stories from industry legends”

and hip-hop pioneers, like Fab5 Freddie. - I directed when Nazyn's their early video. - Which one? - One love. - Wow.

- Yeah, I literally filmed in his apartment in Queensburg. - His mom's been still up in that apartment. Nazyn's just beginning to take off. His pops you still live near me in Harlem. His dad introduced him to a whole lot of, you know,

conscious stuff, and he made a young prodigy. - No matter the era, drink champs brings you the biggest names and the most unfiltered conversations. Listen to drink champs from the black effect podcast network

on the I Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. - Keith Jumanko seemed like a mild mannered suburban dad. But secretly, he became someone else. - A master of disguise who went on a crime spree.

- At the time did it seem like a crazy idea? - It seemed very crazy, but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. - Did you allow yourself to think about

“how would you go wrong and what that might look like?”

- No, I didn't want to manifest that. - I wonder, I was trying to manifest success. - Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life?

- That is not the look of an innocent man. This is gonna change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. - Listen to deep cover the family man.

I mean, I heart-radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - Come, blues! - That's great.

- That's exactly what happened. They lost that game. They lost the world series to the Tigers and Ciana's apparently sent a telegram that said, "Who stinks now?"

- Yeah. - And the curse of the Billy Goat was born and for the rest of the 20th century, and well into the 21st century, the cubs were, you know, a 500-ish team.

They didn't do so great. They had about 15 winning seasons over that span

from 46 to 2003, finished first place three times,

no penance, no world series appearances, and just for postseason appearances. - Yeah, and so just for people like me who don't follow baseball or at least, don't follow baseball stats.

They have a decimal involved. They had 15 winning seasons over 57 years. And that just means that in those seasons, they won more games than they lost, right? That's right.

- That is terrible, especially Chuck, when you consider up to that curse, the cubs were one of the best teams in baseball and had been their entire existence. They'd won the world series the year before the curse, too.

So this was like a real reversal of fortune for the cubs and it seems to have hinged on the curse of the Billy Goat Murphy. - That's right, so because baseball is fun and people like doing goofing around

with kind of lore like this, they tried over the years to lift this curse. They'll do some fun stuff. So 1973, the new owner of the Billy Goat Tavern,

brought the goat to Rigley, says he's got to lift this curse.

“The goat showed up, I think this was a descendant”

of Murphy Socrates, showed up in a white limousine with a red carpet entrance with a sign that said, all this were given, let me lead the cubs to the penit, but the grandson of the initial denier said, "Ah, I don't think you can bring that goat in here still."

What I don't get is they really like set this all up for the red carpet and still didn't let him in, like so the cubs were not involved. - No, they were involved. There was, I think, a Chicago Tribune columnist

who was kind of helping with the whole thing. - Okay, the cubs were not, I guess, informed ahead of time or, like surely, the news was coming. Those are red carpet out there. - Yeah, it saw the red carpet there, like no,

this isn't happening.

So they actually turned a second go away,

a descendant of Murphy's, like you said, in 1973. That's not what you do when you're trying to lift a curse. And so this curse continued on for many, many more years, but over those same years, Chuck, the cubs changed hands several times.

I think the tribune owned them for a while, and some of these later owners, they had a different feeling about letting a goat in the park. They were a little more goat friendly. - Yeah, they're like, if you can have a bunch of guys

racing around the field in a foot race, dressed as hardware and tools, really says what they have at the brave stadium. - Is it just the braids I've wondered? - Well, I mean, it's a home depot thing, which is Atlanta.

So, I mean, they do all kinds of funny races. I think sometimes in some cities, it's like a sausage, races, a brought worse races, a hot dog. - Oh, but I can get some cities.

- Yeah, it's a drill that races a hammer and like a wrench or something, I don't know. But at any rate, like if we can do that kind of silliness, we can let a goat in here to lift this curse. And it very least, it'll be some fun press.

- Right, so they did. They were actually a number of times, same CNS, who led in Socrates in 1972, after you're tried to, they brought him back and with other descendants of Murphy

over the course of a few decades, he would walk the goat around the field and say, like, we're lifting the curse. We're lifting the curse, right? - Yeah.

“- Remember they only had four postseason appearances,”

1984, 89, 98, and 2003? - That's right. - All four of those postseason appearances came on years when they brought in Murphy's descendants to try to lift the curse.

- Okay, this is what I wanna know. Were those the only four times, they brought the descendant in? - Those three, yes, as far as I understand, yes. Those two, those were the only four times

over that span of those years when they brought him in. I'm pretty sure. - I think that seals the deal then. - It does. - This one is actually real.

- Yes.

- And Chuck, they finally removed the curse

since 2016. Samcyanis did with help from the ghost of Murphy. - Yeah, so in this case, Samcyanis rang the Trocani Bell that was worn by the original goat in the 1945 World Series.

And that year, as everyone knows in 2016, the Cubs won it all. They beat the Cleveland Indians and it was kind of one of the great world series that ended in very dramatic fashion.

- Yeah, it went into extra innings in game seven. - And I think that was the game that he rang the bell, right? - Yeah, apparently he rang it while they were going into extra innings in the couple one.

That's incredible. - Yeah. - As they say, "Cubs win, Cubs win, Cubs win." - Man, that is a great hairy carry. - Let's move on, Chuck, let's head on over to Hong Kong.

- That's right, Jackie Chan, one of my favorites. Although I haven't seen a movie if it's in a while,

we did watch the, and I had never seen them.

I might have talked about it's on the show, but the one with Owen Wilson, the westerns, what were those? - I knew, Shanghai knew. - Shanghai knew.

- And it's sequel, and I don't know why I never saw those, and they were both quite delightful, especially to watch with, you know, like a nine or 10 year old.

“- How do you know they were delightful if you've not seen them?”

- No, I did see them. - Oh, I see, okay. - I had not seen them up until, like, last year, when they finally saw them. - Gotcha, yeah, he does make some pretty delightful movies,

rumble in the Bronx was pretty good. - I love that one, yeah. - The rush hours were fairly fine. - I did not see those. They were watchable, Chris Tucker is pretty great.

- I like Chris Tucker. - At any rate, Jackie Chan is pretty big in the West, but he is, he can eclipse the sun in China. He's been in enormous stars since the 80s when he started starring in movies.

He started out as a stuntman, and he kind of came, well, I don't want to say in the other side of the camera, but he actually started acting in front of a camera that was rolling in filming, essentially.

I guess is what I'm trying to say. And then he became a star very quickly. And this is a time, well, in the entire world where the internet wasn't around,

“but I think China had access to it even later than other people.”

So the choice of stars to choose from was much more limited, which let Jackie Chan just get bigger and bigger and bigger over the year. So he's huge in China. - He is, and my friend, I think you missed your calling.

You could have been a director with your knack for the vernacular. (laughing) - You just can see it. - Norchuk. - All right, so Jackie Chan gets famous in the United States

finally, that rumble rumble in the Bronx that you mentioned

was his, I think it's first big American film in 1995. I'm not gonna count the Cannibal Run Movies. - I was in there? - Yeah. - In the original ones?

- I mean, truly, they've been remade, right? - I think they have. - Have they really? - I think, I just say stuff though sometimes. - He was in Cannibal Run.

- Okay. - I'll like, I'm quite a minute, now I'm doubting myself. I'm pretty sure, remember, there were the two,

“you know, the two, I think they were supposed to be”

Japanese in the movie that didn't speak English that were racing, and I think Jackie Chan was one of them, but now I'm doubting myself on a note. We'll look it up, maybe. - I thought they only used to tell you

and actors to play Japanese people back?

- Well, yeah, that's true.

Old Hollywood. But here's where Jackie Chan's curse comes in, because he has endorsed a lot of brands over the years as a pitch person, and a lot of those brands have gone out of business after he pitched them.

- Yeah, so much so that there's a, what they call a Jackie Chan curse, where if you're gonna take advantage of his fame, bask in the glow of his glory and say, hold this product while I take a photo of you

and then turn that photo into billboards and maybe we'll have you move around with my product and turn those into actual commercials, too, that will put on television. You do so at your own risk,

because there's a lot of companies that have taken a nose dive after they hired him as their pitchman. - That's right, by the way, confirmed. That was Jackie Chan. - And cannibal run.

- Wow, he. - But I've been feeling you didn't speak English at the time, and I don't think the character's booking was so, it didn't matter. - Yeah, he learned everything he knows about acting

from Dom Delewies. - Maybe so, who I met when I was six years old. - Oh yeah? - Yeah, I met Dom Delewies walking around Stomountain Park one time, and I was delighted

because I was a big, big cannibal run fan. And he signed a envelope. You know, when you get autographs in those days before the selfie, and my mom had a bill like with the little cellophane window,

and he signed that envelope. So somewhere in my past I had talked to these names and scribbled on a bill to Georgia power. - That's wonderful. - Yeah, so should we read through some of these

that went out of business? - Yeah, 'cause some of them went out of business in fairly dramatic fashion too. - Yeah, I'm gonna pick this one then. The senior frozen dumpling company went out of business

after staff was found in their dumplings. - Yeah, there's a company that made video compact discs, also known as VCDs. They went bankrupt, and the head of the company went to jail for fraud after they hired him.

- Wait, is it VCD something? - VCDs. - So did that predate the DVD? - Yes, I believe it did.

- Wow, I have never heard of this,

and it wasn't like obviously the big platter, like laser disc or whatever. - No, they were compact discs. Actually, and they were video compact discs. I don't know what year this was, but it does crazy.

“- Yeah, I think it does predate the DVDs”

or else they would just call them DVDs. - Yeah, I guess you're right. Here's one for you, did you know what DVD stands for? - Direct to video, direct. - I think a lot of people, in fact,

I heard our pal Scott Aquaman on his movie show, Scott hasn't seen the other day, said digital video disc. And I was gonna text him and shame him, but it's actually digital, versatile disc. - Oh, let's do it.

- Yeah, it's changed a little bit. - You can call it DVD or a VCD, so it is quite versatile. - All right, an American conditioning company that Jackie Chan endorsed had a unit explode

and sales dropped, and I don't know if they went out of business, but that's not a good look. - Also, there is an herbal hair loss shampoo called Bawang, and I don't think they went out of business, but their sales obviously plummeted after it was misreported

that it contained a carcinogen. So, they were also other brands where like their product just didn't get off the ground, even though Jackie Chan is their pitchman. Volkswagen had a panel then called the caddy

that they just stopped making 'cause no one was buying 'em. - Yeah. - Ben Wang, Kola, sizzled out. I see in every single article on the Jackie Chan curse.

the Subore, Subore Learning Machine. All of these just failed failed failed. So, Jackie Chan is clearly cursed, right? - That's right, clearly cursed. To be fair, Jackie Chan is one of those guys

in his home country where they would just walk up to 'em and say, hey, we'll give you 10 grand. If you'll stand here for 25 seconds and hold this thing, he was down with endorsing a lot of products. So, you probably got about a 50/50 shot

of a Jackie Chan product being endorsed and not doing so well.

- So, it's basically just the law of statistics

that he's willing to pitch so many things

“that, of course, some of 'em are gonna be clunkers, right?”

- Yeah, unless you count tennis. - Yeah, this Jackie Chan curse extended or just showed up or kind of spread its girth across the 2025 Australian open, but not one, not two, but three different tennis players

who made it to the final rounds. Arena Sabolanka, Alexander Zebrave, Angelina Ashtopenko. They made it to the final rounds and all three of 'em lost their matches

after they met Jackie Chan and shook his hand. - Wow. - That's really something I wouldn't get too close to Jackie Chan if I had a business or was a professional athlete? - Mm, oh, and Wilson did all right.

- Did he though? - Do you wanna do this last one or should we call it a day? - Sure, we can call it a day. - Yeah, I think in true to our curse,

we can never get through a full list

and everyone's just gonna have to wonder what this last curse was.

“I think I had heard it called the zero factor at one point,”

so let's just tease that. - Okay, we'll call it that. You got anything else about curses, Chuck? - I got nothing else. - Well, we got to put the way back machine in the shop

'cause we don't normally use it this often, so it needs a good tune up, I think. - Yeah, that's making a weird noise, too. - Yeah. - That's a funky thing. - In the smoke, too.

- Yeah. - Well, since we just talked about the way back machine, that means it's time for a listener mail. (bell ringing) This is from Brett about our episode about Tippie Hadron,

getting the Vietnamese nail salon started in the United States. Hey guys, to just listen to that episode and remind of me of a documentary called The Donut King about Ted and I don't know how to pronounce this. NGOY, he's Cambodian.

I'm gonna say, you know what, I'm not gonna try. - Okay. - But I know that NGEN is pronounced when, yeah, I think it's like NGY and or something like that, but yeah, so this would be me, you know why?

- Maybe, we're butchering this, I'm sorry everybody. We're trying. Anyway guys, I often wondered about why so many donut shops, especially here in Southern California are operated by Asian families.

The documentary is about a Cambodian immigrant who opened a donut shop, then used it as a loophole to bring other Cambodian citizens over during the whole pot's reign and trained them to have their own donut shops, which he helped fund.

- Me. - He ended up helping dozens, maybe even hundreds

of families immigrate, and he basically had a West Coast

donut empire. He wasn't without his flaws, though.

“You should know, in the documentary touches on that stuff,”

but totally worth a watch, maybe he ended it for a short stuff. Thanks for entertaining me at work all day and keep up the nerdy work. That is from Brett with one tea. - Nice, Brett.

- Thank you for that, definitely hadn't heard that story and it sounds quite worth looking into. If you want to be like Brett and recommend a great idea for a short stuff or a regular episode or say go watch this documentary.

We always welcome that. You can send it off to [email protected]. - Stuff you should know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

(upbeat music)